📚lore-discussion

[errant tapir]

They can suppress and one shot

[ember storm]

Well yeah they’re using supers

What kind of balance would it be if their super wouldn’t onetap

[errant tapir]

OHHH YEAH

[sick yew]

Kinda interesting to think that Alak Hul is similar to drifter in that he doesn't seem to follow the class system

[errant tapir]

I met one

In the overflow

The landing boss fight

[ember storm]

He’s basically just using a bunch of thunderclaps if you think about it

[errant tapir]

the hunter is the one I fought

[ember storm]

He never uses a super

[sick yew]

More like arc projectiles in general no?

[errant tapir]

Solar blades auto target lock

Gosh dang it

[ember storm]

He also blinks sometimes

[errant tapir]

Why Did traveller make Immaru

I hate him

[ember storm]

Warlock main

[ember storm]

It didn’t, not exactly

Ghosts are their own individuals

[sick yew]

I mean they always do that no? Weird invis shit they pull

[ember storm]

The traveler has no impact on who they are and what they choose to do with their lives

[ember storm]

That’s specifically with the dark hive magic clouds

[blazing wasp]

Why did evolution make bad people

[ember storm]

Alak Hul just full on teleports with light

[errant tapir]

Before savathun, did immaru have a companion?

[ember storm]

No

[blazing wasp]

Cant have more than one

[ember storm]

Ghosts only get to have one risen

[jagged badge]

Immaru was an unpaired Ghost for however many centuries before he met Savathûn

[ember storm]

He specifically decided to join Savathun because he would get a position of power

[errant tapir]

[ember storm]

You don’t really need a degree in psychology to know why he always calls himself “first ghost” or “daddy”

It’s because it gives him a sense of importance and control

[errant tapir]

Is he? The first ghost?

[ember storm]

He likes it

[ember storm]

Of the lucent hive

[blazing wasp]

All ghosts were made at the same time

[ember storm]

Because he’s Savathun’s ghost

[errant tapir]

Do we know who's the first guardian?

[jagged badge]

No

[errant tapir]

[ember storm]

You’re missing the point

He’s first ghost in terms of command and importance

[errant tapir]

Yeah ik ik

He's arrogant

So full of himself

[ember storm]

Why’d you go to the questions channel to ask about knights

You were already answered

[errant tapir]

Hold on

[ember storm]

Hive Lightbearers are just a regularly used enemy type now

[sick yew]

Based

[ember storm]

They’re used as minibosses and bosses occasionally depending on the context

Lightbearer [Class] is just what they’re called by default

[errant tapir]

U guys didn't answer ASAP so I'd figure to ask in question

[ember storm]

You didn’t ask here at all

[errant tapir]

I did tho

Here

Purple

[sick yew]

For future reference #❓destiny-questions is more for ingame related stuff
Any lore questions are reserved for here

[errant tapir]

Ok ok

[ember storm]

[errant tapir]

Jeez

Oh got a new question

How did savathun make those kind of ghost?

[ember storm]

She didn’t

[sick yew]

She didn't

[errant tapir]

Did she corrupt ghosts?

[ember storm]

They’re normal ghosts who joined

Like Immaru

They did it because they wanted to

[errant tapir]

HUH

[sick yew]

Propaganda and peer pressure

[errant tapir]

So all the lucent ghosts have the same appearance?

[ember storm]

Ghosts can just change shells

[jagged badge]

They took on new Hive themed shells yeah

[blazing wasp]

The shells are entirely a aesthetic choice

[ember storm]

Immaru put on a guardian games hunter shell to go incognito in the tower

[blazing wasp]

The sunglasses one, no?

[errant tapir]

Wait

[jagged badge]

There wasn’t just a bunch of suspiciously Hivey Ghosts around for centuries haha

[ember storm]

pretty sure it was the snake one

[errant tapir]

Immaru is spying on us?

[blazing wasp]

Or... Sunglass

[blazing wasp]

Ah

[ember storm]

Might’ve changed both

Swapped at one point

[ember storm]

Was

During FotL

It wasn’t anything important

[errant tapir]

[jagged badge]

We have him in the Tower now as part of an insurance policy with Savathûn

[ember storm]

He’s fully in the custody of Eris Morn right now

[errant tapir]

Damn prick

[ember storm]

We get to crush him if Savathun steps out of line

Also Eris hits him with books

[errant tapir]

YESSSSSS

Huh eris?

Ohh

[jagged badge]

I’m surprised we didn’t when she was pulling the shit she was pulling in Final Shape tbh

[errant tapir]

The mod and npc have same name

[ember storm]

They’re the same person definitely

One in the same

[errant tapir]

[ember storm]

Eris tell us the line about six going down in the pit

[sick yew]

Eris transform into a hive God for us rq

[errant tapir]

Huh

[sick yew]

Yeah she does that sometimes

[errant tapir]

Isn't savathun the hive God?

[jagged badge]

Like, sure she was luring us into discovering power to help the Traveler, but we didn’t know that at first. All we knew is that she was gearing up to attack the Pale Heart’s Tower

[sick yew]

Correct

Well one of them

There used to be 3
Now there's 2

[jagged badge]

Eris Morn used a ritual last year to temporarily become a Hive God

[sick yew]

Orxy is kinds busy being dead

[errant tapir]

HUH

Wait

[blazing wasp]

(We killed one, oryx)

[sick yew]

We killed him back in D1

Kings Fall raid

[errant tapir]

Eris morn npc on the moon right?

[ember storm]

There’s two kinds of god to the hive

[errant tapir]

Bandages

[sick yew]

Yes

[ember storm]

Their worm gods

[blazing wasp]

Yes

[ember storm]

And the gods that were the original hive

[errant tapir]

Yeah ik

[ember storm]

The three siblings, children of the Osmium King

[blazing wasp]

(we also killed one of them, they're a gun at the moment)

[ivory sluice]

This woman, killed savathun in one cutscene, which took me over 4 hours to do in the campaign.

[ember storm]

Oryx is dead

Savathun is half dead

Xivu is homeless

[jagged badge]

In fairness she’d been receiving tithes from every single Guardian for months

[errant tapir]

Xivu ya

[blazing wasp]

Hilarious how eris sent xivu a fucking eviction notice

[errant tapir]

Ewwwwwwwww

She looks awful

[ivory sluice]

I had thread cutter x3!

[sick yew]

Rude smh

[blazing wasp]

Should've gone to Specsavers...

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/savathun-destiny-2-season-of-the-witch-dies-of-cringe-hive-gif-13308682944884160959

[errant tapir]

My head is shaking

[blazing wasp]

https://tenor.com/view/savathun-destiny2-dies-of-cringe-savathun-dies-hive-gif-25028573

[errant tapir]

Why did she want to become a God

Is Eris good guy or bad guy?

[ember storm]

Remember when I had to explain to nexius(I think) that she indeed died from a wound here and didn’t just spontaneously croak

[blazing wasp]

To evict xivu off her property

[blazing wasp]

Good

[sick yew]

Good, at least in our timeline

[ember storm]

This was like a year ago

Eris is fine

She took on the morph of a hive god in order to defeat Xivu

[blazing wasp]

Crystal visually imbedded in flesh

[ember storm]

Mission accomplished and all of that hive power was spent up

[errant tapir]

Oh

Witch Queen campaign?

[ember storm]

No

Witch Queen was like three years ago

[errant tapir]

So confusing

[ember storm]

this was a season

[ember storm]

Savathun died years ago

[ivory sluice]

Eris. Is like lawful good. Every time I think she’s just going to crack and give in, she doesn’t.

[sick yew]

The wound is Maras doing right? When she freed Savathun from her crystal prison at the end of uuh yeah that one awoken season

[ember storm]

How would Eris being a hive god work then

[ember storm]

No, Savathun killed herswlf

[sick yew]

Really

[ember storm]

Because she wanted to be rezzed

Remember

The whole thing was plotted out

[errant tapir]

But revived by a Ghost?

That's the only reason she is alive until now?

[sick yew]

Well yeah but she already had Mara sprinting at her with a blade drawn, could have saved herself the trouble and just get stabbed there and then port over

[sick yew]

Yup

[ember storm]

That was before

We kill Savathun in WQ after she’s already a Lightbearer

She gets rezzed for the first time before

[errant tapir]

HUH

[ember storm]

You know how guardians respawn because of their ghosts

That’s what happened

[errant tapir]

Oh

Fuck

[ember storm]

We just stole Savathun’s corpse so Immaru couldn’t rez her again

[errant tapir]

WHAT

[ember storm]

Fast forward to the season where Eris became a hive, we let him resurrect her

[errant tapir]

Hahahahaha lmao

[jagged badge]

Savathûn died after Season of the Lost, got resurrected, and then we fight her and uncover her plot in Witch Quesn

[errant tapir]

I just picture us running with corpse while immaru is chasing

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-the-witch-queen-hive-savathun-hive-god-gif-24979773

Normal death (no basketball hoop crown)

[sick yew]

Kind of lucky ngl
Thanks to Elsie we know she tends to crack in a lot of timelines

[ivory sluice]

No it’s not the 21st century, we transmat everything now.

[errant tapir]

Lol

[ember storm]

Because she never had the amazing emotional support of the Young Wolf, the person who never spoke to her once outside of saying “what’s that pyramid?”

[errant tapir]

Som... How many times did savathun die?

[sick yew]

[errant tapir]

Twice?

[ember storm]

As a Lightbearer?

Well

Twice we see onscreen

[slim girder]

9? After saint got his revenge

[ember storm]

Saint personally went down to the throne world and murdered her a bunch of times in a row as revenge for what she did to Osiris though

[sick yew]

Wait really

What loretab

[errant tapir]

Oh I heard the story

[sick yew]

Gotra read that

[errant tapir]

Saint and Osiris had a thing yea?

[slim girder]

Lemme find it

[errant tapir]

He said he loved him

[sick yew]

Still have

They're happy together

[slim girder]

They are lovers yes

[errant tapir]

Oh

[ember storm]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/proportionality

[sick yew]

🫡

[errant tapir]

After savathun got separated from Osiris, so now Osiris lives happily?

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2gay-kiss-gif-27172921

[slim girder]

Yes

[ember storm]

THIS IS NOT SPAM, THIS IS LORE RELEVANT VISUAL AID

[slim girder]

They both dream to leave the system for themselves

[ivory sluice]

Idk, he had an episode in lf

[errant tapir]

Huh?

[ivory sluice]

Got very frustrated with figuring out strand

[ember storm]

That was part of his character arc that started in Seraph

[errant tapir]

Osiris is the right one?

[slim girder]

Yeah he was way too eager to stop the witness and prove himself after being absent

[ember storm]

He was both frustrated with his inability to help and also not giving himself the proper time to mourn Sagira

[slim girder]

Yes

The human

Saint is an exo

[errant tapir]

Ooooo

[ember storm]

The one named Saint-14 is indeed a robot yes

[errant tapir]

I heard Osiris was one of the strongest warlock

How about ikora?

[ember storm]

Key word being was

Ikora has always been indicated as directly stronger

She wiped the floor with Shaxx in crucible

[slim girder]

Ikora is known as one of the strongest guardians to live

[errant tapir]

Oooo

[slim girder]

It's even measured

[errant tapir]

Who are the other ones?

The tower npc counts?

Zavala? Saint?

[ivory sluice]

Can confirm, I’ve seen her chaos reach into a nova bomb.

[ember storm]

Not specifically no

[slim girder]

Saint is def a contender

[ember storm]

Ikora is just referenced as one of the strongest

[ivory sluice]

No cooldown

[ember storm]

They didn’t become vanguard because they’re strong

Cayde certainly didn’t

[slim girder]

Don't forget switching from nova bomb to nova warp without any cooldown.

[errant tapir]

Hey man

Disrespectful to talk about the dead

[ember storm]

He’s also not real

[errant tapir]

[ivory sluice]

What a badass, I’ve been asking my clan leader to do that for the past year

[errant tapir]

Hmmm

How about we run it from the start

Can u guys tell me the story of Red War?

The beginning

[slim girder]

I've been asking bungie to give us "hold for roaming super, tap for one and done super" for ages

[ember storm]

Do you know who Ghaul is

[errant tapir]

Noo

[ember storm]

Do you know who Calus is

[errant tapir]

Nooo

[slim girder]

Oh boy

Buckle up

[errant tapir]

Yes

YESSSSS

[ember storm]

I’m not doing that

[errant tapir]

https://tenor.com/view/chuckles-im-in-danger-ralph-wiggum-the-simpsons-gif-14149962

[ivory sluice]

Waltz best story teller

[errant tapir]

Oooh I got a better idea

@trim grotto care to voice note me a story of Red War?

[slim girder]

@errant tapir if you would like a shorter version. Ghaul an albino cabal attacked the city and imprisoned the traveler hoping it would give him the light for his efforts.
But after realising it wasn't the case he turned to taking it forcefully and was successful at one point. However after we defeated him during our assault to take back the city the traveler destroyed him and broke the cage surrounding it. This wave of energy was also what began the process of the black fleet making its way to the system.

[errant tapir]

Ooo

Black fleet is witness's army?

[slim girder]

Yes

The pyramid ships

[errant tapir]

Oh

Noice

[slim girder]

I should also mention ghaul planned to wipe out the system after taking the light using a massive ship called the almighty which was designed to destroy suns causing a supernova and destroying all surrounding planets.
We shut this weapon down and then years later with the help of Rasputin destroyed it completely.

[fast tapir]

aw :c

[brittle dirge]

||THE RIFLEMAN IS BACK?!||

||HE’S SCORN NOW!||

[ember storm]

||me when the scorn is a scorn||

||not plot relevant at all he’s literally just relegated to a bonus round mechanic ||

[empty fern]

Pain

[sinful pivot]

@trim grotto how is the warden servitor still alive

[ember storm]

Multiples of one Servitor has been a thing before

Unless it’s actually explained how exactly the prison just went to shit after Forsaken I don’t think we’ll get an exact answer

[empty fern]

Probably a spare, it’s a prison after all, calus logic

[brittle dirge]

I hope aksis comes back

It would make this a s tier season

[empty fern]

No

Copeth siva

[trim grotto]

I don't know yet
Could be a backup
I haven't actually finished the Act yet or done the Tomb more than once so I'll browse the dialogue until I find something, when I get home tonight.

[empty fern]

(There won’t be anything)

[dim minnow]

People are saying that there's always been more than one Warden AI servitor

[empty fern]

Dovah who let you back into lore chat

[dim minnow]

I own this channel

[empty fern]

Shit

[dim minnow]

Worth noting that the Warden servitor we see in Tomb of Elders is smaller that the Mad Warden from Warden of Nothing

[empty fern]

Oh?

[slim girder]

Apparently this one servitor is able to rebuild itself. I don't have a source for it but a lot of people seem to think this.

[errant tapir]

Hello

In pale heart campaign

We get a friend witch hive

Luzaku

How did she break free of savathun command/mind control?

Are all hive not being controlled by savathun?

[slim girder]

Hive are not controlled. They can still think for themselves. Luzaku had her moment of change when she was about to crush a guardians ghost but instead chose not to.
Her own ghost was very unhappy with this.

[errant tapir]

But ghost cannot abandon its own host ?

Is there a case where a guardian or a ghost just severe their connection

Like they separated in their own ways

[slim girder]

Ghosts can leave their guardians but that connection will still remain.
Dredgen yor an infamous guardian and murderer told his ghost to leave him.

That connection is what gives the guardian their light.

It's why whenever our ghost is effected so are we

[trim grotto]

Yes, it's happened a few times.

Insomuch as the Ghost has abandoned their Chosen

[ember storm]

The opposite has sorta happened with Savathun and Immaru

[errant tapir]

Savathun abandoned immaru?

[dim minnow]

she gave him to us as collateral

[errant tapir]

Ohhh yeah

Someone said immaru is in tower so we can crush his head if savathun crossed a line

Follow up question

Someone said that we did capture savathun corpse?

How is she there in the pale heart?

[dim minnow]

at the end of the Witch Queen campaign, we kill her and take her body into Vanguard custody while Immaru escapes

then, later down the line, Season of the Witch happens and we are forced to allow Immaru to ressurect Savathun so we can figure out how to follow the Witness

which is also when she left Immaru with us

and then she ends up in the Pale Heart during TFS

[errant tapir]

Oh.....

Fuck

[brittle dirge]

Also a different name

And voice

The voice effects are different

[trim grotto]

To be fair the voice thing could just be a product of the time difference

Forsaken was in 2018

[ember storm]

It was me

[ember storm]

Also me

[dim minnow]

you make the neophyte mistake of not adding context on when each event happened, causing confusion

[errant tapir]

Haiya waltz

https://tenor.com/view/mala-mishra-jha-pat-head-cute-sparkle-penguin-gif-16770818

Question

The only thing that can damage our ghost is the witness?

[dim minnow]

no

[errant tapir]

He can severe our connection to the light?

[dim minnow]

there are a lot of things that can harm Ghosts

it's just that Paracausal things are a lot more effective

[ember storm]

Just killing the ghost does that

You can shoot a ghost with a gun and it dies

[errant tapir]

Paracausal? What is that?

[ember storm]

It’s just a gameplay mechanic that we have to personally go up and crush ghosts

[dim minnow]

also using specialized weapons that can drain Light

[ember storm]

Paracausal meaning it’s outside the laws of normal cause and effect

[dim minnow]

operates on a different realm of cause and effect

[ember storm]

Light and darkness are paracausal power

[dim minnow]

Guardians are paracausal beings

[ember storm]

There’s no scientific explanation for us being able to throw miniature suns out of our fingertips or pull at the strings of reality

[dim minnow]

hmmm

what if Fallen shock blades can kill Ghosts because they are charged with Arc energy

[errant tapir]

[dim minnow]

anyways

[errant tapir]

If a guardian runs out of light, it's game over for them?

[dim minnow]

there are ways to drain a Guardian of their Light without killing the Ghost

[errant tapir]

Is it permanent?

[dim minnow]

like using Thorn (not the replica one that we have ingame, the REAL one)

[dim minnow]

well, so long as the Ghost is still alive I don't think so

[errant tapir]

What is thorn? Is it a strand skill?

[dim minnow]

it's a Hand cannon

once Rose, it was corrupted by Hive magic and turned into Thorn

there's a lot of lore surrounding it and the man who wielded it (along with his legacy)

there's also the Sword of Crota

wielded by Crota's swordbearers

it is why so many Guardians died on the Moon during the Great Disaster

[errant tapir]

Is it gatekeeper too?

[dim minnow]

hmmm

[errant tapir]

The only exception to the sword thingy is us?

[dim minnow]

for gameplay reasons, we're fine

[errant tapir]

[dim minnow]

but lore-wise, we DO NOT want to get hit by those things

[errant tapir]

I shouldnt have said that

That's dumb

We have plot armor

The only guardians who can wield dark and light is only us?

There is no other being that can do that except us?

[dim minnow]

should also have mentioned that the Guardian probably needs to be alive too

[dim minnow]

Nezarec had both Light and Dark, but it was unstable

probably since he hasn't had it for very long

or also because he ain't goated like we are

[errant tapir]

Oh ik him from RoN

The tormenter

ohhh yeah the last boss mechanic

[dim minnow]

pretty sure we aren't the only one who wields Prismatic at this point

[errant tapir]

I'm dumb

[errant tapir]

Who else can wield it?

[dim minnow]

probably just other Guardians

I mean with access to the Pale Heart, it is likely that more and more Guardians in general will learn to harness it

it is worth noting that according to Ikora, most Guardians lore-wise haven't even made it past one subclass

[errant tapir]

Oh....

[dim minnow]

not us though

because we're goated

[errant tapir]

Ikora wields what subclass?

Solar?

[dim minnow]

she can do all three Light ones

[errant tapir]

GASP

GOAT

[dim minnow]

and we know she can use Strand as well

[errant tapir]

GASP

[dim minnow]

Stasis is implied since she taught Zavala how to use it

reminder that Ikora is a vanguard

[errant tapir]

Oooooo

Wait

[dim minnow]

and is thus a very high level Guardian

[errant tapir]

What is the hierarchy of a guardian?

[dim minnow]

there isn't really an exact heiarchy

[errant tapir]

Vanguard > Guardian > normal people?

[dim minnow]

unless we're going by the Vanguard who are the main organized defense for The Last City

Zavala, Ikora, and now Crow are the ones running the Vanguard

each of them lead their own groups

Zavala commands the main defense forces

Ikora has her Hidden operatives

and Crow is running the scouts

there's others like Deputy Commander Sloane

but other than that exact rankings aren't exactly clear to us

[errant tapir]

Oh

Titan warlock and hunter

So crow replaces Cayde ya?

[dim minnow]

and to clarify, Guardian is a term that refers to Lightbearers who protect the Last City

[errant tapir]

Cayde was a vanguard?

[dim minnow]

and the term can be used to refer to non-Lightbearers as an honorary title like in Hawthorne's case

[dim minnow]

yes, the previous one before Crow

after Cayde's initial death, the seat was left vacant for years

until it was properly taken up by Crow at the end of TFS

[dim minnow]

important to note that many main Guardian npcs we meet tend to be higher level Guardians and thus have access to multiple subclasses

Zavala before he lost his Light was known to wield Arc and Void, but it is highly likely he knew Solar as well

[errant tapir]

Ooooo

[dim minnow]

Cayde was only ever seen with Solar, but it is reasonable to assume he knew the others as well, it's just that he heavily preferred Solar

and any Guardian that wields a Darkness subclass, you can assume they wield at least one Light one as well since Guardians do not start with Darkness subclasses

in addition to that, anyone, even non-Guardians, can learn to use Darkness subclasses

[errant tapir]

But darkness corrupts you?

[dim minnow]

no

[errant tapir]

[dim minnow]

Light and Dark are not inherently good nor evil

case-in-point, Lucent Brood

[ember storm]

Stasis was only ever a problem because the witness itself presented it on a silver platter whispering to us the whole time

[dim minnow]

they use the Light and they are by no means good

[dapper moss]

zavala uses stasis towards the end of tfs campaign

so no

[dim minnow]

you need the right perspective to wield them

the whole point of the Beyond Light DLC is to show that Darkness is not inherently evil

while Witch Queen showed that the Light is not inherently good either

[errant tapir]

Ooooo

[dim minnow]

then Lightfall would reveal what the true nature of Light and Dark are

Light refers to the physical domain while Darkness is rooted in the mind

consciousness, memory, emotions, etc.

[errant tapir]

https://tenor.com/view/big-brain-big-brain-time-big-brain-moment-big-brain-meme-benjammins-gif-13240151363600697802

Tis confusing

Last city is a refuge to all kinds of species on earth?

[dim minnow]

yeah, Paracausality ain't your typical elements trope

[errant tapir]

The guardian protects it?

[dim minnow]

it is originally a refuge for humanity which included Humans, Exos, and Awoken who are either Earthborn, or who left the Reef

however, out of necessity, Ikora allowed the House of Light to move into the Last City in exchange for their help in freeing the Last City from the Endless Night

the Endless Night being simulation fuckery from a particular Taken Vex mind

then the Cabal Empire would start to be welcomed in as our alliance with Caiatl developed

of course, Mara Sov and the Awoken of the Reef would also develop their relationship with the Last City

the Guardians are those who fight to protect the Last City and whoever lives within

[errant tapir]

Ooo

[dim minnow]

of course, the temr Guardian tends to be used as a generalization for Lightbearers

[errant tapir]

I just watched a clip of red war

Speaker sight originally from the speaker?

The speaker is a guardian?

[dim minnow]

let me break it down:
Lightbearer - One who wields powers of the Light.
Risen - A Lightbearer who is someone who was ressurected by a Ghost to wield the Light. Term isn't really used anymore when the Dark Age came to an end.
Warlord - Risen who used their Light to rule over feudal territories with an Iron Fist (mostly, Shaxx is one of the more good ones).
Iron Lord - Risen who chose to face against the Warlords so humanity would later unite under the Traveler.
Guardian - Risen who protect the Last City and those who live in it. The term was implemented when the Last City was established. The term can also be awarded to non-Risen/non-lightbearers like Hawthorne.

[dim minnow]

no

just someone the Traveler gives cryptic visions to

like Micah-10 and Crow

and us

though the Speaker was someone who got a lot of them

[dapper moss]

well crow is also a guardian

[dim minnow]

yeah, but Clovis Bray I got a few dreams from the Traveler back in the Golden Age

which was before there were any Risen/Guardians

[dapper moss]

fair

im just sayin

[errant tapir]

If I were to play destiny 2 just for the story

What campaign do I start chronologically?

[dim minnow]

well let's see, the first few that were in the game are no longer in it

[dapper moss]

shadowkeep technically

[dim minnow]

but the oldest one that is still in the game would be Shadowkeep

[dapper moss]

watch playthroughs of the other expansions/seasons if you want to be caught up for shadowkeep

[dim minnow]

in order, it would go:
Shadowkeep -> Beyond Light -> Witch Queen -> Lightfall -> The Final Shape

not to mention that there is seasonal stuff that happened between major expansions that were removed

[errant tapir]

Yup

Can u list the major story that backtracks way before shadowkeep?

From red war

[ember storm]

The first appearance of the pyramids is at the end of red war

Shadowkeep is our first personal encounter

Basically the only context you need to know is that the red war is the first time the traveler woke back up

Which is why the witness suddenly went back to trying to do the final shape stuff

[errant tapir]

Oh

Red war > shadowkeep > beyond light > witch queen > lightfall?

[dim minnow]

There was some other stuff that happened between Red War and Shadowkeep

[ember storm]

The timeline tab in the top right of destinations shows the order and gives a summary

[brittle dirge]

Yes but it is a noticeable change

It feels intentional

As well as the fact that the mad warden is presumed dead as we killed it

I think it’s a new guy

[dapper moss]

its a separate servitor

we killed the warden in the strike

[trim grotto]

I was mostly just pulling a devil's advocate

[ember storm]

They’re also just ai robots

So

There’s really no true individual

It’s just a code that could’ve easily uploaded to another shell

[errant tapir]

Wait

I just saw zavala using stasis

While targe is gone

Is he a breakthrough?

[lost abyss]

You don't need a Ghost to use Darkness

[errant tapir]

Oh

[sleek matrix]

darkness can be used by anyone

[lost abyss]

Elsie and Eris are both lightless darkness users.

Osiris too

Zavala is the newest member to that club

[ember storm]

How do you think the hive do it

Or Eris

Or Eramis

[errant tapir]

Wait

Hive can wield darkness too?

HUH?

I tot only light

[lost abyss]

That's all they've used up until Savathun

[ember storm]

Ok so I don’t really know how else to impress upon you that yes, the race that worships death and makes their weapons out of bones use darkness

That’s how the original thorn was made in the first place

It was made with cursed hive bones

[lost abyss]

Hive Magic is a form of Darkness

[sleek matrix]

hive get there darkness from the worms too

[lost abyss]

Yeah

[sleek matrix]

but its at a way less form

[ember storm]

The primary attack that wizards use is literally called darkness blast

[sleek matrix]

the ritual magic also

is darkness

so its not in direct means

like pure darkness use

[lost abyss]

And, yet it's Arc.

[ember storm]

And resonance attacks are solar damage, what’s your point

[lost abyss]

it was in jest, sry

[ember storm]

There is no joking in lore channel

Only arguments

[sleek matrix]

thats also done for gameplay reasons

[errant tapir]

We get to revive our ghost in the end yes?

Can't we just do that to other guardians that lost their ghost?

Like zavala

[dim minnow]

ok, so

this only happened because of very unique and nigh unrepeatable circumstances

because Cayde sacrificed himself in order to revive our Ghost

and Cayde only came back in the first place because Crow made an unintended wish to meet him

and pair that with how Guardians and Ghosts are all inherently connected to the Traveler

[errant tapir]

But Cayde came back from crow's wish with ahamkara yes?

[dim minnow]

yes

and?

[errant tapir]

Dragon with lots of eyeballs

[dim minnow]

Riven, the Ahamkara that done that, is gone for good now

[errant tapir]

Is the dragon someone's pet?

[dim minnow]

she used up the last of her power to allow Crow to reach the Pale Heart

[errant tapir]

[dim minnow]

technically Mara's, but that ain't relevant

[errant tapir]

Sadge

[dim minnow]

and also, Cayde wasn't exactly alright with being brought back

[errant tapir]

[dim minnow]

not to mention that making a wish to an Ahamkara is generally a bad idea

[errant tapir]

Why is that? Does it come with a cost?

[dim minnow]

the only reason we made one with Riven to send Crow to the Pale Heart was because we had no other options and we had a way of making a wish somewhat safely

[dim minnow]

Ahamkara feed off of the difference between what the wish was, and what they granted

therefore, they are encouraged to mess with the wish and screw over the person making the Wish

Mara had an artifact called the Wall of Wishes that allowed her to input her wishes via a sequence of symbols

which made it much harder for Riven to fiddle with the wish

[errant tapir]

Noice

[dim minnow]

but even then, you can't just make wishes to Ahamkara willy nilly

[errant tapir]

Is riven the last of its kind?

Ahamkara is a dragon belong to awoken or hive species?

[dim minnow]

Ahamkara are their own kind

Riven was the last known one until we learned of her clutch

[errant tapir]

Oh damn

[dim minnow]

Mara Sov is currently in possession of her clutch of eggs

hopefully, these whims (term for Ahamkara offspring) will grow to take after their father, Taranis

Taranis is the only Ahamkara who did not screw over the people who made wishes to him

however, he would sacrifice himself by granting his own wish in order to protect his and Riven's clutch

when an Ahamkara grants their own wish, the difference between the wish and what is granted is gone, and so the Ahamkara fades away as well

[errant tapir]

So he sacrificed himself to guarantee safety to his children

A cool dad

[ember storm]

Bow kinda sucks though

[trim grotto]

I like it

Trap bow

[lost abyss]

It does a pretty good amount of damage through it's perk and Vorpal. It's similar to Hierarchy, where it takes a bit to get started but starts strong.

[dim minnow]

I'll just have you know that I got my Reborn BRAVE emblem because one of my teammates was a Titan running a suspend build with that thing

Legend ITL Onslaught don't fuck around

[lost abyss]

Ooh, that one is fun. Is it the Abeyant + Wishkeeper build?

[dim minnow]

I don't recall

maybe

I do know that the other person in my fireteam was a Solar Warlock who used Dawnblade with I think Dawn Chorus

[lost abyss]

That build is probably a lot more fun after the roaming super buffs

Oh right this is a lore channel

[dim minnow]

careful, you don't want Jongo hearing you

[lost abyss]

Jongo?

[dim minnow]

the local Dawn Chorus hater

[lost abyss]

Ah, I'll stay safe. Don't wanna be jongled now

[trim grotto]

Main thing is that Dawn Chorus is better on paper than in practice. The melee regen is neat, but the scorch damage is insignificant, and ideally, you'd be consuming it anyway for an Ignition, removing the benefits.

So it's
Y'know, it's alright

But you've got alternatives

[devout nimbus]

Only thing good about dawn is it looks cool

[dim minnow]

or as Jongo would say, "it's dogshit"

[trim grotto]

Fun fact though, the melee regen is actually subclass neutral

If you can apply Scorch another way

[dim minnow]

like say with an incan solar weapon?

[lost abyss]

I've noticed it's good for sources of scorch that don't always ignite immediately, like Celestial Fire,, and Incandescent

[trim grotto]

That works yes
Or... I dunno, say, Tommy's Matchbook.

[dim minnow]

interesting

hmmm

[dim minnow]

idk how Warlocks work, but doesn't voidwalker make heavy use of the melee?

or is it the grenade?

I'm asking because I know Warlocks love using devour

[trim grotto]

Aw, you'd want to ask a Warlock main that. I only play Hunter, I just pick up tidbits of gameplay knowledge from being around the community so long.

[blazing wasp]

Hello, warlock here, gameplay wise: no

[dim minnow]

ah I see

[lost abyss]

Voidwalker is mainly grenades. It used to be better at that, the aspect for grenades is less useful than before the 3.0

[blazing wasp]

Warlocks have two melees that are not horseshit and it is not in void

[dim minnow]

what Warlock subclasses do lean in on melee use heavily other than solar?

[blazing wasp]

None

[lost abyss]

Yeah, PS in PvE isn't great. It's phenomenal in PvP though

[blazing wasp]

Solar weighs in on melee the most on sunbracers

A grenade build

As warlock is the worst melee class in the game

[dim minnow]

but if Warlocks were to get better melee uses, then maybe...

[lost abyss]

You could argue that Prismatic can. It has a triple melee aspect combo like Prismatic Titan.

It isn't as strong though

[blazing wasp]

Well yeah but it ain't good, best used to consume the melee for different attack

[lost abyss]

Yeah, Arcane Needle on it's own is much more useful.

[slim girder]

Grenade. The whole point of devour is to throw more grenades and get heals

As for what classes lean on melee, arc, strand and prismatic you can make some really good melee stuff with.

Lightning surge is great as an ability

Especially on prismatic with arcane needle you can get 3 charges

[hollow hinge]

erm what the lore?

[lost abyss]

Yeah

[worldly river]

I've never really been clear- what's the accepted explanation for why Eramis got frozen at the end of BL? Was it cuz we broke her gauntlet so her Splinter ran amok? She just lost control of her power? Or the Witness decided "You suck, I'm revoking your subscription to Stasis" and set it in reverse

[sick yew]

Considering that the Witness never directly granted House Salvation the power of Stasis and they needed various tech to make it work I believe it to be the former

He gauntlet which kept stasis under her control broke in our fight and she just became Mariah Carey when christmas is over until the Witness needed her again later down the line

[worldly river]

Eramis as Mariah Carey dear god

[lost abyss]

Mariah Carey will breach containment on Dec 1

[worldly river]

I need that meme of the dude standing in front of her frozen saying something like "It's almost time" except it's Bungie every time they need to do an Eliksni storyline

[lost abyss]

My favorite is Doomguy breaking free while the song plays

[sick yew]

If I wasnt at work id edit this to be a bunch of Guardians and Eramis in there

[worldly river]

Literally every fireteam at the end of the Kridis Empire Hunt

[lost abyss]

"She's in there and we're out here, but what I really wanna know is where's the Kell"

(I went straight from memory I don't remember the meme)

[sick yew]

[ornate pike]

Bungie is gonna have to rip Eriamis open and reveal she's a freaking saint if they're actually lining up her redemption arc this season.

[sick yew]

I dont think "redemption" is the right word
Her goals have always been pure and she was mostly misguided and shit
Not to say shes "good" but at least her intentions and motivations have been in the right spot since BL technically

[blazing wasp]

Good motivation mixed with hate

She absolutely hated the traveler

[sick yew]

For good reason ngl

[brittle dirge]

She has been a terrible person

There is no redemption for her

[sick yew]

Goes for many characters in the destiny universe, allies and foes alike

[trim grotto]

Look at Namrask, for example.

[brittle dirge]

That’s the weaver that spoke to Ada-1 right?

[trim grotto]

Among other things, yes.

[brittle dirge]

Well I’d argue a faction of a monster has done less harm than the monster themselves

[trim grotto]

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying there.

[sick yew]

"the monster" in question is the Witness, Eramis was just another piece of their stick

[trim grotto]

Comparing Eramis to Namrask and I would honestly say Namrask caused greater harm than Eramis ever did - and her intentions were, comparatively, better for her people.

Namrask lives amongst us now, as a weaver of cloth.

[brittle dirge]

Redeeming Eramis would be like redeeming aksis or skolas

Which let me remind you, the forces Aksis commanded, the Devil splicers, were allowed into salvation by Eramis

[trim grotto]

Out of curiosity, do you know much of Namrask?

[brittle dirge]

No

[slim girder]

I wonder if we'll meet this hidden disciple of the witness one day or hear about how they're taking the death of the witness

[brittle dirge]

I’d like to be informed

From what I know of Namrask though they didn’t cause one of their members to become the first fallen exo and resurrect Taniks for yet another time

Eramis did

[trim grotto]

Namrask was a Riis-born Eliksni of the House of Devils. It's implied he was a Kell or similar high ranked member of the House.
Namrask took the name Akileuks as a translation of Achilles, intentionally for the meaning of "woe to the enemy".
Namrask was at the Burning of London, and worse, it's suggested he may have been one of if not the first to begin hostilities with humanity. If not for Namrask's actions as Akileuks, our history with the Eliksni may have ended very differently. Many parts may have ended differently. The Last City itself came to be in part because of the tragedy of the Burning of London.

However... Namrask also watched his people. He saw what the Eliksni were becoming, the culture they were losing. The appearance of Devil Splicers, the appearance of the Scorn, the scavengers and pillagers the Houses had become.
He joined House Salvation seeking a second chance, under the name Namrask, and attempted to become a weaver. He had no idea what he was doing. He did not know how to weave, but he persevered, refusing to fight any longer and trying to pass on the old traditions he had nearly forgotten.

Eventually, he escaped Europa to join the House of Light. Now he lives amongst the House of Light here in the Last City as a gentle weaver, despite his blood-filled past of war.

Eramis is a dangerous person with misguided views, but she did what she did with her people in mind. Namrask fought for nought but blood and vengeance in his past. If we can live with Namrask, we can live with Eramis.

Lakshmi-2 remembered Namrask. Him, specifically. She survived London, she was there, she knew him. It's partly why she was so easy to manipulate during Season of the Splicer, by Savathûn.

[brittle dirge]

Hm. Maybe I was wrong

[trim grotto]

I get where you were coming from. She has made many dangerous, bloody mistakes.

But she also cares for the Eliksni. She saved Eido's life despite the danger to her own.

[brittle dirge]

Im willing to accept your point I guess if we can accept him we can accept Eramis but I still feel hesitant to be ready for this her dialogue so far ||after being freed|| strongly feels like she’s planning to hurt us… or worse

[sick yew]

Actually now that I think of it
How exactly does that work? I thought Lakshmi was created from the shit Maya pulled on Neptune which was post collapse/early dark age

[trim grotto]

It was early Dark Ages, yes. And they abandoned Lakshmi on Earth when Stargazer and the team went to wipe the records of the Exodus Indigo and Neomuna from the records.

[sick yew]

And only afterwards the Eliksni arrived in Sol?

I always thought the events of the collapse and the burning of London were basically in the same week so to speak

[trim grotto]

Oh, no. Not quite. London had become a settlement in and of itself post-Collapse.

[sick yew]

huh

So "burning down london" actually referred to the post collapse settlement

Not the golden age city

[trim grotto]

We don't know a lot of specifics from that time as far as timelines go. I might check in with Eruke some time and do some proper research on it, I'm going by memory here moreso than active sources.

It's late.

[brittle dirge]

I always assumed the burning of London was the golden age city

[trim grotto]

Sure, but the event happened in the Dark Age, is what I was meaning to say.

Early, of course, but still.

[sick yew]

Its 1pm buddy

[trim grotto]

[sick yew]

Yoo its John Undertale

Or whatever his name is

[brittle dirge]

Toby Fox from Undertale

[brittle dirge]

It is 7 AM

[sick yew]

It was a joke I know Toby dw

[brittle dirge]

Ah right we talked about UT before

[sick yew]

I believe so yes

[trim grotto]

tobel fawks

[brittle dirge]

Guy fawks

Vs

The joker

[sinful pivot]

[blazing wasp]

toby fox

looks inside

dog

[slim girder]

@trim grotto what enemy forces attacked sol during the collapse? Obviously the black fleet and some of the hive were there but was there any other force?

Fallen maybe?

Just trying to figure out something

[trim grotto]

During the Collapse? Just those two.

[slim girder]

So nezarec was leading the black fleet and savathun the hive?

[trim grotto]

We don't know exactly how strong the Hive presence was. There was also Crota's Hidden Swarm, though.

[slim girder]

Right. I'm just trying to figure how the enemies of the collapse were behaving. Like yeah the witness wanted the traveler but what were nezarec and savathuns goals in all this chaos.

Just kill for the sake of it?

Idk feels like that wouldn't be the only goal to cause such a calamitous event.

[trim grotto]

Savathûn had her own plans as evidenced by her betrayal of Nezarec and the Witness. But the rest of the Hive were there for what they do best. Slaughter to prove the Sword Logic.

This was perfectly normal as far as Hive go

As for Nezarec, well. Also seems fitting of the "Final God of Pain".
The Witness promised them what they wanted. It's a consistent theme.

[slim girder]

So what about nezarec? Only thing we know that's related to him are tormentors i always thought that the "creature" that attacked ada in the bunker was a tormentor.
He wouldn't be in any command of the hive so why would he be leading the charge.

[trim grotto]

Why not? He was a Disciple, and his influence was already seen on us. "Of Hated Nezarec" was a pre-Golden Age text.

The Final God of Pain presumably enjoys such pain, and as a Disciple, he would carry out the work of the Witness.

If anything, respectfully, I'm confused as to why you're confused.

[slim girder]

I'm confused because while yes nezarec enjoys pain and suffering it doesn't sound like he was in the midst of the collapse really doing anything. Maybe he was invading the minds of people and "devouring their fear" or maybe those pre golden age texts could be from some followers of him but it just seemed like he didn't have any kind of army or anything if that makes sense.

[trim grotto]

Not really, no. We don't know that much about the Collapse.

Besides, he was leading the Fleet itself.

[slim girder]

Right so that makes me think if he was the one who did things like stretch titan into an egg or cause things om earth like those poison clouds that evaporated people. Or as I said before maybe tormentors did exist back then as nezarecs devotion to the witness.

[ember storm]

Tormentors are referenced as born from Calus joining the witness, presumably from his genetic engineering tech

There was a purpose to Eramis grabbing the nezarec parts

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the thing that attacked Ada referenced to smell like soil? A characteristic of hive?

[slim girder]

Yes I know and I'm not denying that it could definitely have just been a hive orge. But I do believe that it is possible tormentors did exist at the time as they are imprints of nezarec.

[ember storm]

If anything I would liken the thing that Winterbite came from to be that one unnamed disciple

By all accounts tormentors are just a recent thing

[slim girder]

The thing winter bite came from is definitely an interesting topic as well as that hidden disciple but something tells me they aren't the same.

Disciples of the witness tend to be more intelligent species capable of speech but what attacked that colony ship seemed a lot more beastly

[ember storm]

I mean it’s either assuming that winterbite came from that disciple who just ended up dying attempting to locate the veil, or just wrote them off as something apparently not important

If you were latched onto the hull of a crashing ship you wouldn’t really be exhibiting intelligent behavior

[slim girder]

It was more like the ship was fighting off an animal. As said in the lore it "took a 15 millimeter burst to the chest'

That's a lot of firepower for one entity

[ember storm]

Is that not a characteristic that a disciple would have

It was literally using a spear

It had cognitive function

[slim girder]

Arms and legs and 3 meters long. Makes me think it was something like a big lizard holding a spear or something.

[ember storm]

That description would fit both Rhulk and nezarec, I don’t see why another disciple wouldn’t be like that

[blazing wasp]

Calus is barely a disciple so I wouldn't count him to dispute it

He wasn't valued for him specifically

But what he brought

[ember storm]

He wasn’t a “real” disciple

He was given the job of herald

He was brought on board just to get the Psions and their tech

And then sent off to die as a distraction

[slim girder]

Also the spear is able to be used like an amplifier apparently.

[blazing wasp]

Witness called him disciple I believe in the opening LF cutscenes?

[slim girder]

Yes

[blazing wasp]

But he's not really a disciple.

[ember storm]

His title is just “the Disciple”

[slim girder]

He was a disciple.
He even has a mural in salvations edge as you walk up to the final door before the witness

[ember storm]

The witness did not truly value him

[blazing wasp]

Yeah but he wasn't a disciple the way rhulk or nezarec was

[ember storm]

It literally had to threaten him to do the one job he was sent to do

He was not devoted to the witness or its belief system

He just wanted to be on “the winning team”

[blazing wasp]

Calus was so insignificant to the witness i doubt it cared if he lived or not

[ember storm]

He literally criticizes the witness for being boring

[slim girder]

The witness doesn't care about anyone living or dying.

[blazing wasp]

Yeah but differently than what I ment

Calus was insignificant, useless

A nuisance even

Rhulk as an individual was extremely useful in furthering the witness' goals

[ember storm]

That’s not the point

Calus was not brought on board for anything of his own value

He was literally sent to die

[blazing wasp]

Every proper disciple we've seen has been someone who was individually useful

Calus could've been beaten fair and square by us

That's how weak he was in comparison

[brittle dirge]

Another note she also used this to spread distrust between her people and the city

She has killed hundreds to thousands maybe even in the tens of thousands

She needs to be made responsible

[ember storm]

Counterpoint

Eramis called me names

I don’t like her

[blazing wasp]

Valid

Aight, let's kill her

[indigo ermine]

what does VS stand for in the dungeon weapons names?

[rare rune]

Vesper Station

[indigo ermine]

ohhhhh thank you!! i thought it meant "vesper" maybe but that felt too short, vesper station makes way more sense!\

[ember storm]

It’s pronounced VeSper, the station part is silent

[empty fern]

VSP

VSPS

[worldly river]

Ya know I'm seeing a lot of complaints about Eramis possibly getting redeemed, and some people grumbling about how often it happens and they just want Destiny villains to be able to be evil but like
When has a villain ever actually been redeemed in this game? I feel like it's just Riven and Mara, and Mara was never evil, just really abusive

I don't count Crow cuz he's a different person, Mithrax was never shown to do or be bad in-game until after he moved into the City, Caitl offered us peace terms on first meeting and after a few weeks of non-malicious Proving accepted us as essentially equals, Variks did a big bad but it was led up to and happened offscreen, and he was even more of a good guy by the time we met him in D2 than he was last time we saw him in D1, Spider's not redeemed he's just doign slightly less illegal shit now cuz the Vanguard is hanging over him

Ghaul and Calus got some sympathy points thrown their way but never stopped being villains, even with Ghaul's specter in Haunted

Most Destiny villains are just evil and die, or evil and live

[lost abyss]

Yeah, redemption isn't something that really happens often in the narrative. You even can't count Savathûn because she was only allied for a common enemy. She never stopped being manipulative and sadistic, as seen in Dual Destinies.

[brittle dirge]

I thought it meant versus lmao

[lost abyss]

That works if you are on the receiving end of those weapon's barrels.

[brittle dirge]

Oh my god Millie helluva boss pfp

[lost abyss]

I like the short gal with the axe

I'm going to take Crow's axe, and shrink my Guardian.

[brittle dirge]

Crows axe is just an iron lord axe

So you could just pretend your character is short and play ROI

Especially in the fight against the remnant iron lords (the most human like fight we’ve ever gotten) it’ll be close enough

[lost abyss]

Completing the campaign while crouched

[brittle dirge]

6 guardians aggressively crouching towards aksis

[lost abyss]

lmao

[quiet yacht]

Last episode the echo was called echo of command

What’s this episode’s echo called?

Has it been revealed?

[dim minnow]

Echo of ||Riis||

[quiet yacht]

Damn it hasn’t been revealed

[dim minnow]

click on the black box

goof

[quiet yacht]

Ah

Isn’t that the home world of the fallen?

[dim minnow]

||yes||

[quiet yacht]

Ah

That makes no sense

Of these echoes are gonna take on aspects b

[dim minnow]

Echos are manifestations of memories of the Witness' victims

[quiet yacht]

Huh I see

[dim minnow]

formed from a clashing of Light and Dark

[quiet yacht]

Ahhhh I see

How do I blur out text?

[dim minnow]

Fikrul's Echo is now confirmed to be made ||specifically from the Eliksni who suffered from the Whirlwind|| (at least that is what it seems like)

[dim minnow]

like put it in black box?

are you on mobile?

[quiet yacht]

{hi}

[dim minnow]

no not that

[quiet yacht]

[hi]

[dim minnow]

use "|"

two of them

"||"

[quiet yacht]

|hi|

[dim minnow]

nono

[ember storm]

||insect like chattering||

[dim minnow]

"||" [your text here] "

"||"

kind of like that

had to separate it

[lost abyss]

||Dismantle mines, yes?||

[dim minnow]

don't include the quote marks

[quiet yacht]

“||” [hi]

[dim minnow]

use two of them

now put two after the sentence

[ember storm]

You put || on both sides of what you want to cover up

|| on the front

and the back ||

[quiet yacht]

“||” [hi] “||”

[ember storm]

|| like this ||

[dim minnow]

and the quote marks aren;t needed

[ember storm]

no “

[quiet yacht]

Ahhhh

[ember storm]

no bracket either

Just ||

four total

[quiet yacht]

|| hi ||

ahhhhh

I see

[lost abyss]

Victory

[quiet yacht]

Ok spoiler for act two episode revenant
|| do we have any leads of who might be the one speaking in the echo ||

[dim minnow]

some suggest ||Chelchis||

[quiet yacht]

|| I was thinking of him ||

[dim minnow]

her

[quiet yacht]

Right her

[dim minnow]

turns out Chelchis is female

[quiet yacht]

Hot

[dim minnow]

actually thought she was male until the episode started

[quiet yacht]

I mean

Cool

|| but I thought like taking kind of turned it into that gun didn’t he||

||King||

[ember storm]

||The echo is repeating a song post-whirlwind though||

[dim minnow]

Chelchis was not turned into a gun, she simply died during the Whirlwind (or was Taken we don't really know)

[ember storm]

||Chelchis wouldn’t be around to know it||

[dim minnow]

and also, the Echo is formed from memories

[dim minnow]

wasn't she singing it in The Garden Way?

[ember storm]

||Chelchis literally wouldn’t have the memory||

[ember storm]

||It was called a whirlwind dirge, wasn’t it?||

[quiet yacht]

|| waittttt Wouldn’t this kinda like help strengthen that the fallen captain? We fight in the raid that no one knew who they were was her?||

[ember storm]

||something made after||

[quiet yacht]

|| good point ||

|| but i’m still on clear how she died. Did she die from the whirlwind or from the hive?||

[dim minnow]

Herald of Finality?

[quiet yacht]

Un

[quiet yacht]

Yes

[dim minnow]

nah, I'm pretty sure that thing was just a Dread made from a Taken captain base

[quiet yacht]

That’s gonna be so boring if that’s the case

It would’ve been cool that it was her and she was twisted by the witness

It would just add more to theboss

Like I feel like this thing should’ve had like a bigger meaning because this was literally the only boss in our way to fight the witness

[sleek sentinel]

If darkness is of the mind, and light is of the physical, how is darkness being manifested as a physical, tangible thing VIA stasis and strand, wouldnt the OG darkness subclasses be a precursor to what would eventually be prismatic?

I wonder since our class abilities like the barricade and healing rift... those are made of light and theyre used in darkness subclass? Is there anything explaining this or are we talkin 'muh vidya games'

[ember storm]

Because stasis and strand are both linked to mental stuff

https://youtu.be/3UKeMo3UerU?t=88&si=UZtiVKEf3L4v-yL8

[slim girder]

Found keksis again. Wonder how many of the old prisoners are still around. Also I've noticed the vex are completely absent. Thought there were supposedly "vex gangs" in the prison still.

Would've been cool to see some scrappy malfunctioning vex in the tomb and enemies like the overmind minotaur.

[sick yew]

You mean the Timestalker of the Vex?

The Overmind Minotaur?!

[slim girder]

Yes

[timber tiger]

Can’t wait for Void to be depression, Arc to be anxiety and Solar to be angery bpd /s

[trim grotto]

Light does not hold the same level of mental connection.

[timber tiger]

Yes

I will /s for good measure

[trim grotto]

This is lore chat. We have folks asking what a Cabal is or if Saint is an Exo. Basic questions and misunderstandings are common, and so we take things at face value in this channel.

[timber tiger]

myb /gen

[trim grotto]

I don't know what that means.

[timber tiger]

aw it’s a tone tag

like how there’s /s, /srs, /j and such

[trim grotto]

Kids these days

Back in my day we'd misinterpret an honest message and get offended, like how God intended

[timber tiger]

Based and not-as-autistic-pilled

[lost abyss]

SIVA will return ||/j||

[timber tiger]

SIVA overwatc

Season Of The Siva would’ve ate

💅

[cinder geode]

That wouldn't make sense since rasputin is dead

[ember storm]

rapsutin had no special connection to siva

it operates completely fine without him

he just assumed control of all bray facilities he could access after the collapse

that included old russia's siva complex

[lost abyss]

A tragedy that some unnamed nano-tech from Neomuna appeared and flexed on SIVA /j

[shell tangle]

is neomuna the only city in neotune?

[ember storm]

Yeah

[trim grotto]

Correct

It was founded by the Exodus Indigo colony ship

[shell tangle]

why is there a harbor

[trim grotto]

I can answer that specifically
But in 5 minutes
I'm making a cup of tea and getting some cereal

[trim grotto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOtrB8KNWuc&list=PLS2hBTtCDufTEcet4G_6mLED8h-_5-c-k&index=52

there ya go

[shell tangle]

why not just the docks itself having the water sucker instead of big boats

[trim grotto]

Because the storms travel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esqsj4FT_zw&list=PLS2hBTtCDufTEcet4G_6mLED8h-_5-c-k&index=45

And this one is stationary and far off

[patent swallow]

is there any explanation for why we didnt shatter Eramis after she got frozen in BL

[trim grotto]

We assumed she was dead.

[patent swallow]

bro

[trim grotto]

[patent swallow]

they didnt even take her body

they just left it there

wouldnt the Hidden be all over that

[trim grotto]

She lost control of her Stasis and it consumed her. Elsie warned us of this very threat, said we could die. She'd seen it herself.

So, we thought she died as she lost control herself.

The Hidden claimed Oryx's body because it was technically half alive and the Hive tried to resurrect it. Eramis was, to our belief, simply dead.

[patent swallow]

idk, still seems like a pretty weak explanation

i feel like the vanguard has gone through enough shit where they wouldnt want to take any chances

[jagged badge]

There’s every chance we literally couldn’t shatter it

The Witness was shown to control Eramis’ Stasis prison so I feel like it’s not unreasonable to assume that trying to shatter the Stasis of a much stronger being like that would be impossible

[errant tapir]

Wait

What's the connection between fikrul and crow again?

Why fikrul called him father?

[dim minnow]

well, you see

some time between the Red War and Forsaken, Cayde was tasked with capturing the Scorn Barons

so, he organized a team consisting of himself, Petra, Banshee-44, Nadiya (one of the Six Coyotes), Hawthorne, and Jin (some ramen shop guy)

completely forgot I was talking about this

sorry

as I was saying

so, Cayde's Six would manage to track down and confront Fikrul and the Scorn Barons

during this encounter, Cayde would Golden Gun Fikrul and send him plummeting to his doom while the other Barons were captured

after this, a dying Fikrul would be found by Uldren Sov, who was corrupted by Dark energy at the time and was under the influence of Riven

Uldren would unintentionally make a wish to help Fikrul which allowed Riven to mix Fikrul's Ether with Uldren's Darkness which created Dark Ether and make Fikrul the first Scorn

because of this, Fikrul would refer to Uldren as "father"

then the two would go on a reign of terror over the Reef

causing the collapse of the House of Kings and the deaths of many Awoken

eventually, Uldren decided surrender himself and Fikrul to Cayde who then took him to Petra who took him to the Prison of Elders

then Petra would task Variks with trying to find a cure for Uldren and Fikrul's conditions while making sure no one else knew about it

effectively forcing Variks to do this alone which ended up in him snapping and letting the Prison fall into chaos while he left to try and fulfill the Kell of Kells prophecy

only for him to end up failing and being taken in by Eramis who sought to have him as a scribe

meanwhile, Uldren would continue his goal of opening the way to the Dreaming City with the help of the Scorn Barons who all escaped the prison with him

then we would kill them each one-by-one until only Fikrul and Uldren remained

then we killed Fikrul and finally, Uldren Sov

Fikrul, however, doesn't stay dead as a result of Riven's magic

and Uldren would be found by a Ghost and resurrected as a Guardian

aka Crow

@errant tapir

probably put in way too much context

but yeah, this is the relationship Fikrul and Uldren had previously

[polar atlas]

i love lore dumps so much man theyre the best read

[errant tapir]

okay

[dim minnow]

so Crow feels responsible since Fikrul is the result of Uldren's actions

[errant tapir]

so....

uldren was a bad person yes?

was mara the same too?

[dim minnow]

eh

[ember storm]

I mean you have to understand that morals are more complicated than that

[dim minnow]

Mara is very morally gray

[ember storm]

Uldren was mentally unstable and manipulated essentially his entire life

[dim minnow]

her goals and the reasons for her actions are noble

[ember storm]

But he was willingly to take down anything in his way if he thought it would benefit his sister

[dim minnow]

which Mara does hold some responsibility for