📚lore-discussion

[sick yew]

From when is that first fotl lorebook

[dim minnow]

season of the Lost maybe

yeah, I think this was around the time Crow got Uldren's memories from Savathun

[sick yew]

Oh wow

I thought it was older

[dim minnow]

lemme grab the excerpt

"They are indeed," Ylaia concluded direly, "the fruit of the damned."```

not this one, it's just a funny one

"Yes?" the Ghost prompted. "What about him?"

"What is the Human word for one with good spirit, but who speaks loudly, and without reason?" he asked.

"Umm… an idiot?" Glint offered gently.

"Yes, it is so," the enormous Kell nodded. "Klyfiks is an idiot."```

this one

I don't know why, but I imagine this one part of an older D2 track play when he says that last part

[sick yew]

Odd that they describe Mithrax as "enormous"

Considering hes barely taller than your average Captain

[dim minnow]

when compared to humans, even Vandals are pretty tall

just look at Eido

[sick yew]

Absolutely but they specifically say "enormous Kell" which is a bit odd to me

Mithrax is arguably one of the smallest Kells of all time

[dim minnow]

also consider that while the book is told from 3rd person, it is mainly from Glint's perspective

[uneven slate]

could be that the adjectives are being used to describe his status more than his actual size . with what he's saying being conjuncted with his "size" within the eliksni hierarchy?

sizing in destiny is sometimes a bit inacurrate anyways. in the season of the plunder cutscene, eramis, who we know to be much taller than us, is typically the same size as mithrax, who is now only a smidge taller than us?

[trim grotto]

I wouldn't overthink it. Eliksni are tall, Captain-size like Mithrax are taller, Glint is the size of a boot.

[sick yew]

Eramis isnt as tall as she used to be lol

The Ether economy isnt what it used to be

[uneven slate]

ohh yeah. ether deprivation

[sick yew]

Indeed

She was kell sized back in BL but when she got unfrozen by the Witness she slowly shrunk overtime

House Salvation is in shambles and by extension their ether supply

[trim grotto]

gee if only they hadn't been mistreating or outright destroying their servitors

[sick yew]

Hm yes these machines (which we ourselves defile cause idfk cult shit) are what primarily keep us alive
Lets send them onto the battlefield

Eliksni war tactics at their finest

[uneven slate]

could be said of eliksni manufacturing in general as well. let's send out the unit that can make all our other soldiers invulnerable < leaves the unit vulnerable

[sick yew]

Idk if Servitors can canonically shield other units

Could very well be a gameplay thing

@trim grotto been meaning to ask btw
Are Servitors sentient?

[trim grotto]

There are arguments for and against!

[sick yew]

Because I remember there being a small passage in the Vespers Host armor loretabs that was something along the lines of "the servitors huddle together in fear" or something like that

[trim grotto]

The Hangman tortured them and they cried out in pain, and our new Many Orb'd Buddy of Vesper was a bunch that huddled together in "fear", yes.

[sick yew]

Which struck me as interesting

Yeah exactly

[trim grotto]

I think you could compare them to Tower Frames. Lower level Servitors have more basic AI, but the older, or more complex they are, they may either have enough AI to become sentient or mimic it akin to our Frames.

For example, Arcite and Dahlia aren't truly sentient, but they're unique Frames with their own personalities.

[sick yew]

Scur-V is the smartest of them all

Truly the goat

[trim grotto]

I might do a deep dive into this some time, because it's a super interesting topic.

[sick yew]

a Servitor character would be cool as hell I cant lie

[trim grotto]

In the meantime though I'm editing Helldivers clips

[sick yew]

lol

Also there isnt really any lore on Reniks right

Hes just supposed to be another type of unification similarly to what the other Eliksni onboard Vesper station went through

[trim grotto]

I haven't done a full dive into Vesper lore so I'll refrain from answering until I'm confident in my answers

[sick yew]

Ill papyal you a 20 to do so now

[trim grotto]

I have 7 hours until I have to go to work and I need sleep
So nay

haha

[sick yew]

Smh

[uneven slate]

can we play ai minecraft on a servitor is the real question

[sick yew]

Can a Servitor run doom

[trim grotto]

AI Minecraft?

[sick yew]

Maybe ill just read up a bit myself

There is a Vesper lorebook right?

[uneven slate]

true horror https://x.com/Etched/status/1852089772329869436

Etched (@Etched) on X

Introducing Oasis: the first playable AI-generated game.

We partnered with @DecartAI to build a real-time, interactive world model that runs >10x faster on Sohu. We're open-sourcing the model architecture, weights, and research.

Here's how it works (and a demo you can play!):

Twitter · Oct 31, 2024, 8:46 PM

[trim grotto]

[sick yew]

Get that shit outta here man

[uneven slate]

[sick yew]

Wait is there not

Huh

[proven frigate]

Maelstronnar what Cloak is that in your pfp?

[fast tapir]

the age old question

[proven frigate]

the lore of Maelstronnar-3

[slim girder]

@proven frigate it's the omega mechanos cloak from eververse.

[proven frigate]

thank you

[slim girder]

[tawdry wigeon]

When the traveler created the ghosts were they meant to be used as supports for the war that was coming?

[blazing wasp]

It was ment to help humanity defend itself, as she wasn't really able to assist for a while

[ember storm]

The way Unveiling describes it as the Traveler’s final and ultimate argument about life

[lost abyss]

Is Unveiling still a contentious topic, or has there been a consensus on it's validity? I remember it being discussed as an untrustworthy allegory from the Witness.

[trim grotto]

Still contentious. The entire thing is a metaphor, but the return of the voice of the Winnower throws things back into question.

[lost abyss]

We still aren't free from Unveiling

[knotty musk]

are exo minds defined as a copy of the original person’s personality or do they actually host their consciousness

I figure copy because ||big clovis head and banshee existing||?

[trim grotto]

Think of it this way. If it wasn't for the anesthesia keeping you asleep, you could - while dying in agony from radiation poisoning - meet your own Exo in the short period of time you're still alive for after the mindscan.

[knotty musk]

huh that’s
never thought about the process of transferring to an exo

[dim minnow]

Clovis AI is a copy

while Banshee is Clovis

[knotty musk]

it’s always you two

[dim minnow]

we're the top lore guys in this server

[knotty musk]

where can I read about this

[trim grotto]

We have a yearly gladiatorial battle to determine who remains

[knotty musk]

also who’s that exo that was rebooted thousands of times I wanna read that again

[dim minnow]

Legacy part 2

[trim grotto]

The concept is covered in the BL CE lore, the Logbook
Elsie wakes up Clovis post-mindscan at some point too, which is...

That was...

What was that in Dova
I don't want to Ishtar search on mobile

[dim minnow]

is it the actual book or the missing pages?

[knotty musk]

I can ishtar search what you’re talking about as long as you have what it’s on or the title or something

[dim minnow]

Did Clovis II ever tell Wilhelmina and Elisabeth about his tinkering? Despite sharing the same parents, the two sisters are totally different genetically— my son arranged for Elisabeth to receive a maternal allele wherever Wilhelmina got a paternal one, and vice versa. A diversified portfolio. If one failed, the other might succeed.
not the quote but interesting

[knotty musk]

the Beyond Light Crota’s End lore? I don’t know where to look man

[dim minnow]

As we say: our work. You are afraid. We feel it.

Feel this, you jumped—up pond slime.

  Commencing radioligand injection. Direct transcranial dose, 18 sites, crown configuration. Needle gauge 100 microns.

  Please remain still.
Ah. It hurts at the surface. But inside, there is no pain.```

you might be talking about something else

are you referring to when Clovis was cut apart in the middle of surgery while a corrupt simulation of Maya attempted to torture him for information?

[trim grotto]

Sorry I'm at work
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/recovered-memory-una-8
I was thinking about this but in retrospect it may be stating something different
Regardless a mindscan is a copy by definition. You, yourself, die. Your scanned mind, as a copy, is uploaded.

I can provide more details later

[dim minnow]

I had a feeling it was in here

[ember storm]

CE meaning collectors edition

The physical lorebook that comes with buying it

[lost abyss]

As Waltz said, since lore from the collector's edition of expansions is normally a physical item, that is packaged with the edition, we can only access said lore through transcriptions.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tmu9sjYV7c6X1NhRQmOxkj_o7IJ4ZRcifbm49MNr12s/edit?usp=drivesdk

[trim grotto]

Oh yes I forgot about this sorry @knotty musk
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/records/clovis-brays-logbook-missing-pages
This is part 2, Eido here linked part 1

If you want to know about Exo, this pair of entries are the strongest picks, and truly fascinating ones at that

[vast kiln]

Skittles but the Cabal made them:

[honest snow]

Are there any MtF character in destiny

[empty fern]

MtF?

Think only trans currently was oryx but that’s FtM

[empty fern]

.

[honest snow]

Aw

[jagged badge]

Micah-10

[honest snow]

Well, glad oryx's operation was a success

[honest snow]

Who she

Is it the exo on Europa?

[jagged badge]

No, that’s Elisabeth Bray

[honest snow]

Oh

[jagged badge]

Micah-10 is a renowned Guardian, known for guiding and nurturing unpartnered Ghosts in their search for their Guardians

She also appears in Final Shape, aiding in the process of healing the Traveler, both before and after we beat the Witness

[honest snow]

Aww thats so wholesome

[jagged badge]

Yeah

[honest snow]

Im imagining ghost chilling on pillows and stuff now

[jagged badge]

From age 10 she lived with her dads in the Eventide colony on Europa, as both worked on the Exo project (and both became Exos themselves)

She transitioned in some way by the time she was 17, and became an Exo herself afterwards

[honest snow]

Thank you eris

[jagged badge]

No problem

[dim minnow]

you know, I was really thinking something happened during the Your Friend, Micah Abram lore book

like maybe she secretly became an exo in the middle of it when Cayde shot at her

but I guess this confirms that the shot actually did miss her

[jagged badge]

We knew that from the lore book anyway no?

[trim grotto]

Yes

[dim minnow]

I guess it was just the way it was written

something felt very off

especially the dream sequence, but that is now confirmed to be from the Traveler

[trim grotto]

I think it was just a cliffhanger since we got the entries piece by piece

[jagged badge]

Yeah, she gets shot at by the Exos but then next entry is her next letter talking about what goes on next

And then there’s even a time jump of 3 months where the letters go into her family life and the conflict between her parents

And then one of them going missing working a lot

[dim minnow]

this also means that there is a time gap between this book and around maybe 6 years or less when the Exo-Vex war begins

maybe more depending on how long Micah was an exo

[trim grotto]

Dova
Did you get in touch with Password

[dim minnow]

Not yet, bit I'll reach out later

[desert iris]

why is the vesper station breech loaded gl considered a baton
are they using it as a blunt object or trying to make a ranged blunt weapon

[sick yew]

That's just the name lol

[trim grotto]

I expect it's named after a baton round launcher

Which are tube launchers firing rubber rounds for police riot work

Big heavy buggers

All you'd have to do is swap out the ammo for live ones

[sick yew]

I mean destiny names just kinda existing isn't an uncommon thing either
Anonymous Autumn

Escape Velocity

Some shit is just named to be named

[trim grotto]

Also that
But a baton round launcher is functionally a grenade launcher

[desert iris]

Yeah but i think its fun to assume names have deeper meanings

[ember storm]

Why is it called fire and forget if I can remember it’s not made of fire

[jagged badge]

Why is it called Fire and Forget if it’s not a weapon like Witherhoard or Anarchy and instead a sustained damage weapon

[desert iris]

forgetting why im using that gun whenever i fire it

[ember storm]

You pick up the gun and you turn into banshee

[slim girder]

I think it's more a case of kill the target and forget about it.

Just pull the trigger and move on

[tropic swift]

what subclass is like the most vampiric or works with vampire theme?

[ember storm]

Void was once misconstrued as “dark” because it has draining properties

Because of Devour mostly

Plus there’s the whole invis thing you could kinda work in

[tropic swift]

so voidwalker?

[trim grotto]

Sure. Just look at the Karnstein Armlets.

[rapid aspen]

Is there anything about the anomaly on Vesper? I been wanting to learn more of it because since seeing that massive Vex construct. Had me with so many questions…..

[slim girder]

Void. Devour is described as draining the life from your enemies

[slim girder]

What kind of questions?

[tawdry wigeon]

Hey i haven't played anything before like the season with the taken (it was on a planet that has been taken away) idr the name, and i was wondering how come earth have every faction as an enemy on the planet? Is there lore about that in the past or something? Also who were the first to come to earth? The eliksni?

Btw i may have started towards the middle season of the arrivals

Such a good season

Iirc the subclass trees were very different back then, they would extend horizontally rather than what it is rn

[dim minnow]

We have very little info on it as of now

[ember storm]

Technically the first faction to come to earth would be the Hive due to Savathun, and no, earth doesn’t house every enemy faction

Vex aren’t on earth at all and Scorn are only really “invading” it during this season because they’re hunting Eliksni who are already here; WR and it’s scorn was a one time thing

Enemy factions arrived at different times for different reasons

The Eliksni were following the traveler after it left them and wanted to reclaim it/take revenge/pillage to survive

The Traveler was sat idly on earth for over a thousand years

The Hive (specifically Crota’s) first camped out on the moon to try and establish a beachhead for an oncoming invasion, and just so happened to pick the Cosmodrome as their first target

[tawdry wigeon]

Right yeah my bad i forgot about vex

[ember storm]

Cabal largely just claimed Mars for themselves at first for recon, but Ghaul’s special interest in the traveler led to the red war and their attempt to claim the traveler

Taken just showed up wherever oryx found victims and wanted to invade, which then got relocated back to Savathun’s personal interests after he died and she indirectly assumed control

The only time the vex have been on earth was in season of the splicer because Lakshmi accidentally gave them a direct connection to the middle of the last city, so they threw together a haphazard invasion (with Savathun’s influence)

[trim grotto]

Or Gambit. If you want to be very nitpicky.

[tawdry wigeon]

Oh wow okay i knew about most of them but yea thats very detailed thanks

[ember storm]

I think gambit could classify as drifter’s own sovereign state

They just move hq every 10 minutes

[tawdry wigeon]

Oh about drifter

He said he has a ship with a ton of them yea i already knew that but how did he get them and how is he so interested in them?

[ember storm]

The vast majority of Drifter’s taken is from the nine and they’re not actual taken

Primevals and presumably their envoys are the only actual real ones

[trim grotto]

Faken

[ember storm]

Drifter just had a special interest in dabbling with darkness before most others, and he was basically

The most lonely and smart person to pick

So they just gave him a giant rock containing a pocket dimension

He doesn’t actually really care about taken themselves much at all

[tawdry wigeon]

Oh got it okay okay

Understandable

[ember storm]

Personally I think most of his reasoning for running gambit was just to satisfy his own ego

[tawdry wigeon]

He is one my favourite characters tho even tho he is only for himself i kinda like that

[ember storm]

Like the vanguard couldn’t do anything about it and he did successfully get countless guardians to abandon the dogma the speaker preached for over a thousand years

[tawdry wigeon]

I can see it

[ember storm]

It really wasn’t until he connected to us and Eris that he actually got involved with the big picture

[trim grotto]

Less so than he used to be

[ember storm]

All he got from the nine was “keep playing the game” and also seeing the half enslaved face of who used to be a close friend

[trim grotto]

He's been allying himself with us consistently, and his relationship with Eris Morn has grown stronger - an impressive feat for both of them.

[ember storm]

Yeah but when he first showed up at the beginning of forsaken he was just there

Even season of the drifter didn’t have much of a plot to it

We just got more involved with him so he’d more understandably show up later when the narrative called for it (arrivals)

[tawdry wigeon]

I feel like he will get something in the future

Unless the future is a totally different scenario with new characters in general

Which is unlikely

[trim grotto]

Drifter's been involved in many pieces of content since Arrivals.

[ember storm]

Yeah destiny just tended to do a lot of “here’s a cool character now wait 2 years until they’re actually relevant and now they’re mainstay”

[tawdry wigeon]

They have? I didnt get to play a season until i got i think bl, before that i was a f2p

Oh nvm

Nvm i did get shadowkeep before that it was really cheap

[ember storm]

Off the top of my head

[dim minnow]

Even then in Gambit Prime he had counterfeit primevals

Like the Taken Nokris

[ember storm]

He was feeling a little silly

[trim grotto]

Or the Oryx's

[dim minnow]

Yeah

[ember storm]

Likeness of Oryx was an absolute nightmare though

I do not miss it

[dim minnow]

Though I do wonder about the two of swords knights

[tawdry wigeon]

Wait in gambit prime there were raken of actual bosses?

[trim grotto]

Drifter's been in a lot yeah
Plunder and Deep are two of the big ones

[dim minnow]

They aren't taken, but they do appear in Reckoning

[trim grotto]

Faken produced by the Haul

[tawdry wigeon]

Yea that i remember i played during that

[trim grotto]

Formed by Drifter's imagination and the Haul's power

[tawdry wigeon]

Uhhh the haul i gotta remember what that is wait

[dim minnow]

The big thing on the back of his ship

[ember storm]

The big rock on drifter’s ship

You see it every time you load in to a gambit match

[dim minnow]

You also get flung in there at the start of Prophecy

[ember storm]

And also in the background of the gambit menu

[tawdry wigeon]

Ohhhh

Okay yea

Thats a living thing?

[ember storm]

https://destiny.wiki.gallery/images/thumb/2/29/Haul1.jpg/1200px-Haul1.jpg

[ember storm]

It’s a rock

With a portal

[trim grotto]

An embodiment of the power of the Nine
Magic rock

[ember storm]

Drifter gets taken made from dark matter

The nine get

Sort of close access to guardians in a way

[tawdry wigeon]

Ohhh okokok got it

[ember storm]

A more reliable means to interact more “directly”

[tawdry wigeon]

Alright yea sick

Quick question about apollo

[dim minnow]

We most likely don't have the info to answer it

[tawdry wigeon]

Originally they released a trailer in August, did they mention anything about more info after December?

Oh

[ember storm]

I hope the frog will be there

[tawdry wigeon]

Well mvm then

[dim minnow]

Given trends, we should get an actual reveal when Heresy launches

[tawdry wigeon]

So February

[dim minnow]

Or maybe when one of Revenant's later acts launch

Most likely Heresy launch though

[tawdry wigeon]

Okay got it

Im really worried and hyped at the same time

[dim minnow]

TFS got a pretty early reveal alongside Witch launch

[tawdry wigeon]

Didnt lf get one early too?

That was August as well no?

[dim minnow]

Normally the big releases get a reveal on the day the last season of that year starts

[dim minnow]

Quicksilver Storm came out with Plunder right?

If so, then LF did also get an earlier reveal

Being the day the third season of that year starts

[tawdry wigeon]

Ohhh okay ig idr old past bl

[tawdry wigeon]

Either with plunder or at the end idr but the reveal was in August with early strand stuff

[dim minnow]

Yet the way Episodes are set does make it tricky to know when we get a reveal

I estimate reveal either comes with Revenant Act 3 launch or with Heresy Act 1 launch

Leaning towards the latter

[dim minnow]

WQ got revealed with Lost launch

And I believe BL was with Arrivals

I know Shadowkeep got revealed not long after Opulence launch

[tawdry wigeon]

Yea heresy seems more likely its not like before with the 3 months its 4 now so it kinda changes

[tawdry wigeon]

Ohh okay i didnt really remember that damn. Omg opulence was so good for some reason it feels so nostalgic

Nessus is the best planet

[frigid sparrow]

erm actually it's a centaur planetoid 🤓

[fervent sandal]

i heard from someone that there's an "unknown" disciple of the witness is that true?

[dim minnow]

yeah, but he's long dead

[fervent sandal]

hm

and we know nothing about him right

hence unknown*

[dim minnow]

not a lot other than that he gaslit himself into thinking the Witness actually gave a shit about him

[fervent sandal]

how do we know he existed?

like what lore card

[dim minnow]

one of the pages in Inspiral

[fervent sandal]

al

[dim minnow]

Root of Nightmares lore book

[fervent sandal]

alr*

[brave estuary]

[brittle dirge]

Lore reason behind why all raid/dungeon bosses can resist so much damage

I’d think it’d be hard to take multiple light or dark supers

There’s people like INSURRECTION PRIME where I wonder how the servitor wasn’t instantly destroyed by us

[ember storm]

I mean it was mixed with black armory tech and splicer stuff

[brittle dirge]

Okay what about the one ogre from grasp

It’s just an ogre

[ember storm]

Grasp is barely canon as is but like

You know how ascendant hive work don’t you

[brittle dirge]

Oh right… I forgot about that

[ember storm]

The the more you kill, the stronger you are, the more powerful you grow and also grow physically

The entire point of that ogre is that he’s greedy and completely fell to temptation

[brittle dirge]

I know how sword logic works but yeah

[ember storm]

Compare him to a normal ogre and guess how much had to happen for him to get that big

[brittle dirge]

Okay real question

What about the puppeteer

She is beat tf up so

Wouldn’t she be weakened

She’s missing a hand, missing parts of her head, etc.

[ember storm]

I haven’t done vesper but isn’t the whole point that she’s empowered by the anomaly

Also what’s the difference between a robot with 4 hands and one with 3 when their gun only needs 2

[brittle dirge]

I mean yeah but still

[brittle dirge]

To show that she’s beaten the shit out of

[ember storm]

And she’s a robot

[brittle dirge]

Your point?

We have multiple enemies that are robots

[ember storm]

Tf does beat up have to do with it

It’s not like she’s experiencing muscle atrophy

Having a scratch on your face and missing a hand you’re not using in combat isn’t going to change anything

It’s not like she’s woozy from blood loss

[brittle dirge]

I’m pretty sure exos experience pain

[ember storm]

And she’s also literally lost her mind and praying to some unknown signal

She’s not going to go “ow stop it time out”

Pain isn’t stopping her

The point of her damaged design is that she’s completely lost any sense of self and literally does not care how much she’s damaged

Everything is just revolving around that anomaly

[brittle dirge]

Why are her clones normal then

[ember storm]

Because they’re digital copies

That explode into data

[brittle dirge]

The ones in VH in fact do not explode

They float

[ember storm]

Ok so looking into it Destinypedia is claiming that it’s not actually Atraks in any meaningful way

So I have literally no clue

[brittle dirge]

Okay I’m finally back

Yeah idk if i trust destinypedia on that because the lore entries from the weapons and armor strongly suggest otherwise

Then not being related makes no sense in design, weapon and armor lore, and general Atraks lore

And don’t say design doesn’t matter because unlike hangman and locus of communion they went out of their way to make a fully unique model

Hangman and locus

Vs Atraks and puppeteer

[ember storm]

Yeah but it also wouldn’t be the first time a base model is tweaked

https://static0.gamerantimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/destiny-2-captain-avarokk.jpg

Avarokk’s limbs are prosthetic

I just have no clue

Anyway uhhh point I was making earlier

Atraks being busted up compared to her DSC form doesn’t really indicate much of her strength

The anomaly really juiced her up and it was really just meant to showcase how fucked she was in the head

[empty fern]

What about technocrat

[brittle dirge]

I thought avarokk was a reference to Taniks due to their similar capes not skolas

Mask is close though

They don’t look that close tbh

[brittle dirge]

Praksis and scorn Praksis

[brittle dirge]

Taniks cape and avarokk cape

They also both have robot limbs

[empty fern]

What’s the context again?

[brittle dirge]

If design elements affect lore

[empty fern]

Oh, why are we even considering avarice then

[brittle dirge]

^ look back here @empty fern my contest winner

When I hold another trivia show I expect you to win…

[empty fern]

Hmmm

[brittle dirge]

Idk @ember storm brought it up

[empty fern]

Whenever I catch the trivia

[brittle dirge]

With skolas and avarokk

I’ve only held 2 and you won the first

Whenever I make another

[ember storm]

I just arbitrarily remembered they have the same face and brought it up

No other captain does

[slim girder]

So what was the story with skolas in the PoE? Was us "killing" him just knocking him out as is the punishment in the prison or was that actually finishing him for good. Based on the activities coming to the episode and this "tomb of elders" i wonder if it's possible skolas could come back.

Scorn Skolas?

[ember storm]

The prison of elders was never really an actual prison

Mara kept a collection of her cryogenically frozen enemies as trophies for years before deciding one day that she probably shouldn’t be doing that anymore, but she still didn’t want to show them any mercy

Variks transformed the collection into the prison of elders, based on old riis ritual combat

Guardians were just asked to clean house and rewarded for their efforts

Skolas was only captured for a short time before being thrown in the arena himself, essentially just as a form of execution

[dim minnow]

to add on to this

Skolas at that point was done with everything and was looking forward to being put down

he saw some shit when he was fiddling with the Vex citadel

and he realised that he was just a pawn to both Mara and The Nine

and also going along with the purpose of the prison

it relates heavily to a concept called Cutthroat politics

basically, everyone is enemies with one another, but no one wants to put in the effort to knock off their enemies since it could leave them vulnerable to be taken out by another

so Mara was basically using the Prison as a means to have powerful foes kill each other so she wouldn't have to put in the effort to kill them herself

either have other prisoners face eachother in gladitorial combat, or let your powerful friends (Guardians) clear house in exchange for loot

[jagged badge]

That’s the story in Balamory??

[ember storm]

Balawhat

[trim grotto]

Banned

I hate that thing it ruined one of my favourite sayings

[dim minnow]

some Scottish kids show

I think

[ember storm]

[brittle dirge]

Skolas was a little insane

Whatever he saw when messing with the vex really fucked him up mentally

And dont get me started on his belief to be the kell of kell’s

Like when fikrul claimed that it reminded me of his instantly

[trim grotto]

Something something Star Eater Scales

[brittle dirge]

What

It talks of the Kell of kells sure

But what must that do with this

[trim grotto]

Quite relevant to the Kell of Kells prophecy
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/star-eater-scales
Read this with the knowledge that the beginning indicates Darkness

[brittle dirge]

I’ve read it multiple times it’s one of my favorite lore entries for exotic armor

[trim grotto]

The point and true purpose of the prophesy mostly
About how it is intentionally divisive

Certainly showcased with Skolas

[brittle dirge]

Most people who take this to heart and claim themselves Kell of kells are insane

Fikrul and skolas

Mithrax I think is the only non insane one

I’ve also never understood fikrul calling himself Kell of kells as I’m pretty sure there are no kells in scorn culture

And while scorn and fallen are linked in terms of their biology with ether

Their cultures are VERY different

[trim grotto]

I don't believe he ever claimed the title personally, but rather had it attributed.

[brittle dirge]

He did not claim the title

[trim grotto]

Yes but if he subsumed all Eliksni into the Scorn...

[brittle dirge]

He was simply called that due to legend

[trim grotto]

By good old Saint

[brittle dirge]

I know fikrul is far gone at this point and I’m not sure if he even remembers his previous experience as fallen before being succeeded by aksor but he wasn’t a Kell

He was an archon priest to kaklis

But it wouldn’t be the first time an archon took the position of a Kell (technically aksis as he was the leader of the Devil splicers and was the Devil archon which was the Kell of the splicers as they lacked a proper Kell)

We also could assume aksis would’ve never rose to power if we hadn’t killed Riksis who was the current devil archon at the time of our resurrection before we ended him

Most archons gain their heightened power by someone else’s death/injury or in fikrul’s case, his

[trim grotto]

My point was more that he'd be Kell of Kells by default if he took control of all Eliksni as Scorn. He wasn't the first non-Kell to seek the title, besides.

It's ironic, in a way.

[brittle dirge]

If he seeks to convert all fallen into scorn then he CANT be the Kell of kells

Because there won’t be kells anymore

[trim grotto]

Not in the traditional sense, no.

But I don't think he cares much about that.

[brittle dirge]

I don’t think he cares about much

He’s a different kind of insanity

[trim grotto]

Being King Zombie certainly has its downsides even if he doesn't realise it

[brittle dirge]

Does he realize anything?

Ever since he became the fanatic I think he’s been lacking in cognitive functions

He acts and speaks more like Nezarec than Rhulk

[ember storm]

Fikrul very much has cognitive function

becoming scorn had no bearing on his ability to think

that's just genuine madness (he's called the fanatic for a reason)

[brittle dirge]

I always assumed it did as he is scorn and majority of scorn are puppets nothing more

[ember storm]

he's always been able to rationalize and think like anyone else could

it's his will that makes most scorn mindless puppets

[brittle dirge]

Which scorn had free will again

[ember storm]

none

the witness' scorn fully regressed into mindless puppets

[brittle dirge]

I thought all the barons had free will

[ember storm]

FIkrul was shown to actually teach his scorn his own form of religion

[ember storm]

they weren't scorn

[brittle dirge]

The hangman was

[ember storm]

they were the Scorned Barons

still normal eliksni

[ember storm]

why do you say that

[brittle dirge]

He was a ravager

[ember storm]

his enemy class has nothing to do with his actual being

Valus Ta'aurc was resurrected by Xol and taken and ended up as a basic centurion model

the Scorned Barons weren't actual scorn

[brittle dirge]

But they look like scorn (some of them)

I don’t understand

[ember storm]

also scorn ravagers are characterized by their lack of heads

[brittle dirge]

Maybe I’m just scornist

[ember storm]

legitimately just how they're designed

that and it's probably not healthy to be hanging around undead rotting corpses

Fikrul was the only actual scorn out of the barons

none of them had died at all before we killed them

[brittle dirge]

Is there a lore reason why theyre missing their heads

[ember storm]

then the Machinist is resurrected for the dark ether harvest public event but nobody cares about them

[ember storm]

not in the way you think

they are literally headless so they're not given guns to shoot

[brittle dirge]

How can they see then

[ember storm]

they're probably just given extremely dangerous melee weapons because

[brittle dirge]

They know where you are

[ember storm]

you don't need to see to do that

they have feet

they can feel vibrations in the floor

[brittle dirge]

Avatar huh?

[ember storm]

again i remind you they are undead rotting zombies

[ember storm]

you can do that too

irl

it's just a thing

[brittle dirge]

I’m not blind I didn’t know that

[ember storm]

if someone is walking in front of you you don't need to see them

[brittle dirge]

I also forget that scorn are bare foot

Like yes you can feel vibrations but how loud are you stomping around

[ember storm]

you're a guardian in full armor carrying at least 3 weapons at all times, always sprinting

your footsteps will be loud

[brittle dirge]

They’re only really loud when speed boosted

Amplified makes it noticeable

It’s oddly quiet otherwise

[brittle dirge]

She also was a nightmare in haunted

[somber pendant]

wait im conufsed i already asked this earlier but

how come we can fly in and out of the traveler now

[trim grotto]

Waltz is correct
While they look exactly like Scorn, they looked like they do prior to the Dark Ether shenanigans
They're just very ugly living Eliksni... Well, until we got there.

I can explain in an hour or so when I'm home

[brittle dirge]

I understand now I just looked it up

The only normal looking one is the rider because… it’s just a stalker design

[ember storm]

witness (bad guy of the overarching story) opened up a portal to the traveler's heart to use the power inside to change reality to its whims

[brittle dirge]

On a pike

[somber pendant]

nono but

the story started with mara almost fainting just getting us into the pale heart

so

how come we can fly in and out now

[ember storm]

remind me again

[trim grotto]

Most of the Lightfall Seasons were working towards this goal
The short answer is with the aid of the Ahamkara (Wish Dragon), Riven of a Thousand Voices. We recalled her spirit with the aid of Mara and the Techeuns and she granted us a Last Wish. Two if we're being pedantic.
That, combined with Osiris's research into the Veil, helped... map a safe path.

Basically, once Crow was through, we used the paracausal connection between him and Mara to create a safe path.

[somber pendant]

if ur saying the witness did that like midway into the story

then when

[ember storm]

i don't remember any exertion on her part

we never physically interact with mara at all

she keeps us updated on radio the whole campaign

[somber pendant]

oh i see

[ember storm]

and then brings in the entire helm at the end

[trim grotto]

End of Wish
Getting Crow through

[somber pendant]

wait no yeah i get how we got in in the first place

[ember storm]

yeah that was just crow

we just fly in the portal

[somber pendant]

but how come we can use our ship now

[ember storm]

crow mapped out the safe path

mara had to follow his trail

[somber pendant]

i think last time i asked, someone said mara set up a transmat link

[ember storm]

the portal is just in the sky of the pale heart

[ember storm]

transmat is for transmat

you still need to enter the physical portal

[somber pendant]

but in the loading cutscene, we are seen literally flying our ship into the traveler right

or am i tripping

[ember storm]

your ship can't transmat from orbit to the ground

you have to actually fly to every location

ship comes down and drops you off with transmat then goes back to orbit

[somber pendant]

ok i see

[trim grotto]

We just fly in now. The path has stabilised since the first time we entered.

[somber pendant]

ohhhh okay cool

yes that answers my question

[ember storm]

transmat is just how we enter and exit our ship as guardians because it's fast and we basically can't ever risk a proper landing in any of our patrol zones

[somber pendant]

i like how im so interested in the physics of this world that a random group of people made up

very silly

[ember storm]

the technology is used for objects and things elsewhere but not how we apply it specifically

[trim grotto]

I've been learning Destiny lore for a few years now
There's always more to learn and it's very fascinating

[ember storm]

well it's a team of dedicated writers making an entire fictional universe

[somber pendant]

very true

[ember storm]

people like book series

[somber pendant]

harry potter

[trim grotto]

Anyway I'm on my mobile in my car about to drive home so I'll vanish now and do that
See you in... an hour ish

[somber pendant]

🙏

drive safe

[ember storm]

ehhh

[trim grotto]

Don't have any interesting conversations without me haha

[ember storm]

i'm indifferent about that one

[somber pendant]

i dont actually like that world

but

its another example!

[ember storm]

i mean i would've brought up dr who or something

it's more sci fi fantasy like destiny

[slim girder]

See I always thought the prison always brought it's inmates back as a form of punishment. Basically mara saying "ok so you're in prison and now the citys immortal warriors are going to beat you up for rewards as punishment"

But they would sit in the cells we saw in forsaken until it was time to be called to combat.

[ember storm]

The prison was established long before Mara had substantial contact with the city

[slim girder]

Judging from D1 I knew the awoken and the city weren't talking to each other much but I don't believe there wasn't any contact whatsoever. Things like the queens wrath in the city for example means that they did converse in some way even if it was small

But they were still definitely independent from one another

[uneven canyon]

What are all the different divisions of vex?

[uneven canyon]

How many visual differences?

I can only think of 4

[slim girder]

Some have tribal type markings, some are just as simple as different colours and others have completely different parts.

The nessus vex have that mantle on them signalling they're under mayas command

[trim grotto]

I will say that Proxies don't count as a Collective

[slim girder]

Yeah i know I don't count them either

[trim grotto]

This is from Dpedia isn't it

[slim girder]

Yes

[trim grotto]

Naturally

[foggy mesa]

quuiick question

why exactly is savathun not on witness side?

[slim girder]

Because she betrayed it during the collapse

[regal palm]

She does not believe in the Witnesses cause. It’s unclear exactly what her motive is, but the general consensus is she wants the power for herself, and to not be subservient to a being who will not give her what she desires

The Witness will not give its disciples what they desire (except Rhulk, who wishes for extinction, and technically he’s not even getting that)

Basically Savathûn learned that the Witness was lying, betrayed it by hiding the Veil, and then went along with it until she could rid herself of her worm and be granted the light from the traveler

I’m not a huge lore guy so this is a massive oversimplification

[trim grotto]

She also didn't want to die. What with the Worm Hunger curse and Final Shape and such.

[foggy mesa]

wait

the witness end goal is not to kill all being no?

wasnt his goal to give what each people want or smth?

[trim grotto]

The Disciples all had different interpretations of the Final Shape. The Witness never corrected them.

Savathûn, however, had always been the crafty sister, even back before the Worms. She wanted to find a way out of this servitude.

She wanted to be the winning player in the game, not a pawn.

[foggy mesa]

ohh okok got it

cuz if im not wrong in the end credits theres a mentioning about how savathun tried to fill the power gap left by the witness or smth??

[trim grotto]

That was more of a general statement than specifically pertaining to her

She is, however, the enemy of our enemy, not our friend.

She will and likely already has taken some advantage of the Witness's death.

[foggy mesa]

interesting ok

so we just allied for a while cuz theres a bigger enemy kinda of deal

[trim grotto]

Enemy of my enemy, exactly

[slim girder]

Yes.
Mara even says that she only lives because there are threats greater than her out there. Also she's been providing us with intel which like it or not has helped us in some way. Such as the ahamkara egg inside the imbaru engine.

[quiet yacht]

Question what happened to the leviathan?

Is it just a dungeon now?

Lore wise is it empty

[dapper moss]

its floating in space somewhere

[quiet yacht]

And waiting to be claimed

[dapper moss]

not quite empty though

[quiet yacht]

a ship that can consume a planet is just floating around

Now

[jagged badge]

Still in the moon’s orbit

[quiet yacht]

Can we blow it up

Seem like a threat

[trim grotto]

It could only slowly eat a planetoid smaller than a moon, and it's currently disabled. The systems are overgrown and broken, the controls non-functional. It's a grotesque abomination, a gruesome metaphor of what Calus became, but it isn't a danger in its state.

Besides, Caiatl's fleet is guarding it.

[inner drift]

I was re-reading the lucent tales lore book and I got reminded of why Fynch is one of my favourite characters, the lil guy spits straight facts

I hope they do something with him in the next episode since it’s gonna be hive themed

[sick yew]

Throw him in the grinder for example? Yeah that'd be neat

[blazing wasp]

"If i put you in a meat grinder, and all that comes out and is left of you is your ghost shell?
You're probably dead!"

[slim girder]

I want to see him fly so fast and smash into immaru

[sick yew]

What class would Jerma be

[slim girder]

Warlock

Absolutely

[fast tapir]

yeah

100% warlock

[inner drift]

Whatever the fuck drifter is

[trim grotto]

Which is none

[fast tapir]

actually that fits jerma more icl

https://tenor.com/view/caption-caption-meme-meme-random-meme-jerma-gif-3664785851174142772

[brittle dirge]

Why do I see jerma

[slim girder]

He has the fit of a warlock but acts more hunter imo. He likes being adventurous and making big scores.

[blazing wasp]

He has no class

He predates classes and never picked one

[honest snow]

Do the headless ones actually have lore or are they just a non canon thing for Halloween

[ember storm]

The entire point of them is that we don’t know where they came from

That’s the point of the lorebooks

I’m still convinced the first idea from Fynch of Nokris just screwing around is the right one, Eido just doesn’t know what Halloween means and keeps bringing necromancy into the subject

[slim elk]

Thats an oddity in of itself with Neomuna around

Humanity in destiny should have a full record of the Golden Ages history from Neomunas archives

Certainly would be the thing Eido would be diving into

[ember storm]

You say that but they’re run by a capybara laced propaganda machine

[slim elk]

Yep

A human antagonist in Neomunas government would have solved a lot of Lightfalls issues

[ember storm]

They probably just trunk or treat anyway

[slim elk]

Nah. The candy be nutrient paste lol

[brittle dirge]

I’ve always wanted a human antagonist

But I also think of it like this

Why?

I mean the game is about shooting aliens

But then I realize it’s the same mentally as why humans are often another villain in zombie media, they are so far gone they are no better than the zombies

Closest we’ve gotten to human antagonists are Maya and lakshimi

But they’ve both been lacking in terms of actual battles

I just realized this is 7 hours later

[slim elk]

Lightfall wise it would have neatly explained a lot of the writing

Refusing to explain anything? Hostile government

The inconsistent attitudes and total ignorance of the general population to the thing they literally built their entire civilization on?

Intentional act to keep power

Plus Bungie has made effort to give all the aliens actual characteristics rather then just mindless fodder to shoot

Makes sense they'll show humanity isn't perfect either

[brittle dirge]

That has been a thing since the original destiny

Fucking skolas in house of wolves had characteristics and human like attributes

I know stasis isn’t ice but instead darkness but does it still destroy someone’s cells?

I assume not as Eramis is fine and some enemies are fine but have we ever seen a NORMAL human experience it?

[ember storm]

It’s the complete removal of energy overall

You can imagine having that happen to all the cells in your body would probably be pretty bad

[brittle dirge]

Yeah

[ember storm]

When a cell runs out of energy it dies

Imagine all of your cells immediately lose all of their energy at once

And then the mystical force causing this energy removal also explodes in a shattering effect

[brittle dirge]

But ice is an actual destruction of all of all cells

[ember storm]

Ice is ice

Ice causes the loss of energy through the removal of heat because it’s cold

Stasis is literally a magic force saying “actually all energy around you is now gone”

In an instant

[knotty musk]

visually, different/significant hive knights have a different head shape design

so what do the different head shapes mean

ie
these?
and oryx and his family (crota and the other guy) I guess

I could swear there were more shapes but the internet doesn’t keep good image records of these guys, a run through PoH will probably reveal an extra one or two (swordbearers and zulmak or something)

[ruby pivot]

do we have cursed weapons? (human made)

thorn is one right?

or it have hive aspect to it?

[trim grotto]

Thorn is very imfamously Hive influenced.

[ruby pivot]

are there human made cursed weapons

currently watching byf's video about red death reformed

and said or actually implied in its lore that its "cused"

or living of sorts

[slim girder]

Osteo striga is human made. My theory is that it's an SMG that overtime turned into what it is now due to the "feeding" it's had.

There's also bad juju which has an innate hunger to it.

[ruby pivot]

osteo is human made?!

shits look like a hive origin through and through

ah nvm i got the skin thats why

i forgot what it actually looks like for a second there

[slim girder]

I believe that jana 14s light was tainted when studying the artefact her team was researching and that transferred into an SMG she used and after feeding it human lives and as said by a report "ribs excised" It transformed into the jagged weapon it is.

[dim minnow]

well I do think that whatever it is cursed with is Hive in nature

but the weapon itself is human made

[ruby pivot]

i want to discover more cursed guns or weapons

heck cursed location like GoA

[slim girder]

I do still wonder what the corruption actually is. Yeah it is prolly hive but I wonder why one of the researchers was rambling saying they were reborn. I'd like more to that story one day.

Like is something related to but not exactly hive? And does "the devourer" name mean anything.

[dim minnow]

maybe it is similar to how Rezyl became Dredgen Yor after being corrupted

[dim minnow]

could be related to the Hive's concept of Unmaking

[slim girder]

Idk I feel like if it's on thorn and necrotic grips that it's a being of sorts.
"Mark of the devourer"
"Grasp of the devourer"

[dim minnow]

Crota is known as the "Eater of Hope"

and the Weapons of Sorrow are largely made by Enkarr who is part of Crota's brood

[slim girder]

Also the perk icon on thorn. Pure speculation but I think this is the symbol of the devourer. Just like other hive beings have logos.

[ruby pivot]

anyone here played destiny rising, ngl i watched some videos about some of its lore

i am actually really interested with the alternate timeline destiny

but its mostly because of the jaeger

[trim grotto]

It does, but that's because she based it off of research on the Thorn.

[ruby pivot]

hmm is crimson a cursed weapon? like red death (reformed)

[trim grotto]

I honestly don't think I'd call Red Death a literally cursed weapon.

[ruby pivot]

but its said in its lore tab that its fighting the purification after its body was dissembled and reassembled with changed parts

[trim grotto]

I have read it.

[ruby pivot]

so its not a "cursed" weapon?

just influenced by darkness?

or a perversion of the light thanks to its lightbearer

[trim grotto]

Red Death was a grim weapon used to butcher innocents and Lightbearers alike, and I think this death is something that seeped into its essence. But in the end, it is merely a gun.

Let me paint you a comparison.

I have, personally, been to Auschwitz-Birkenau.
This is real life. There are no curses, no Hive magics, just the acts of man.
Auschwitz-Birkenau is a grim, cold place, and you can feel it in your bones. It was a place of death.

Red Death is... I would say, similar. Not a literal curse. Just something that remembers its deeds.

[ruby pivot]

ooh so what you mean that it despite not having any attachment of power it just reeks of its sick or demented deeds

[trim grotto]

Exactly

That's my interpretation, of course. My word isn't law.

[ruby pivot]

like how a creepy looking part of the forest or a dark alley makes your skin crawl or the mind is making you on guard of a potential danger?

[trim grotto]

Something akin to that, yeah.

[ruby pivot]

forgot what its called its some sort of ingrained or programmed in a human psyche where you feel a disturbing feeling or look at something and you feel like something is wrong despite that there seems nothing actually wrong

[slim girder]

It's just anxiety really. Like you feel in danger or something.

Imagine you walk next to a cliff with no safety railing. Your brain instinctively stops you from moving closer. It's that kind of feeling.

[slim girder]

Chernobyl has been described like this as well. A desolate empty place of disaster with nothing but ruins around it.

[eager trout]

Uncanny reflex?

[ruby pivot]

probably that? i forgot but its probably that

[empty fern]

Yea uncanny

[iron mortar]

Is it a hot take to say that it seems destiny rising vanila campaign is 1000x better than vanila d1 and d2 campaigns?

I was watching it recently and it seems to have a nice narrative so far

[ember storm]

I have literally no idea what it’s like so I can’t speak on it

[trim grotto]

You do you, but I'm not interested in a deviant universe/timeline that doesn't involve the main game.

[blazing wasp]

The bars of all 3 are very low

[ember storm]

i don't have time to explain what i don't have time to understand

[iron mortar]

I would say give it a chance tbh, it is really refreshing to see new ways the story is changed

[tough kettle]

im not really interested in non-canon stuff for destiny
what happens in destiny rising stays in destiny rising

[frank barn]

I want this channel in a powerpoint lol

[knotty musk]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net

[slim girder]

Weird question but how much of the lore is actually known by the characters in game? Like is some it stuff only we as players know? Or everytime we pick up a lore book do the characters in the universe of destiny also know this stuff?

[trim grotto]

Kinda depends on the entry

Like a lot of this we have no way of knowing but a lot we do

[slim girder]

For example
We know riven was acting as a mirage of mara before riven granted the wish to get into the pale heart. But does crow know that?

[trim grotto]

Crow's... reference to the event suggests he thought of it at a slightly different time. He also may not have been aware it was Riven acting as Mara. He just knew he Wished for it and Riven clearly heard.

[slim girder]

Or the message from the winnower in the nacre lore tab. It's talking to us but is it us as the player or us as the guardian? Or both even?

Do the characters even know about this winnower being at all

[trim grotto]

It'd be the Guardian, I expect. Unveiling was provided to us via the Shadowkeep Pyramid artifact after Garden of Salvation.

We received it in parts over the weeks

It's something Guardians, even NPCs, are aware of in universe

Ikora even references it in the Hidden Dossier

[slim girder]

Yeah unveiling was messages sent through the artefact we recovered on the moon right?

Eris was researching it

[trim grotto]

Yes. Got it from the Luna Pyramid, it activated after the raid.

[slim girder]

What about stuff like the rubicon. Ahsa told us about the witnesses civilisation and also Zavala when he met the dissenters but would any of them, even ikora or eris know anything about that stuff in that lorebook?

[trim grotto]

It is... told as a storyteller would. Someone knows it. If it is us, I expect it was passed on to the Vanguard.

[slim girder]

Yeah. Usually at least to me a "confirmation" that this is known by someone is the official radio codes and all that sorts of stuff when looking at entries.

Like transmissions, numbers and designations, etc

[dim minnow]

the Rubicon lorebook feels like it's messages from the Dissenters

maybe they have some sort of wy of leaving those messages

maybe the Witness' injury from Iconoclasm allowed it

[tawdry wigeon]

hey i saw someone mention Efrideet's colony as a possible destination in apollo. who's Efrideet?

and whats up with the colony??

[brittle dirge]

She is the current youngest iron lord

[tawdry wigeon]

okay damn ive never seen her get mentioned, is she from d1?

[brittle dirge]

Yes

She has a cutscene in ROI

[tawdry wigeon]

oh okay ill make sure to check that out

[brittle dirge]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lNnSTFauS7Q

[tawdry wigeon]

and what about her colony? is she in another moon or planet?

[tawdry wigeon]

oh sick thanks!

oh that was really short okay

[brittle dirge]

Well yes and no

She fled earth after the faction wars but returned on the onset of the SIVA crisis and has stayed here since

Her colony that she was with before returning I don’t think we know where they were

But her fleeing most likely protected her from death at the hands of SIVA with the battle of site 6

[tawdry wigeon]

hmm i see okay interesting

so her colony could potentially be in one of the moon

or even eris which is a planet apparently which mara mentioned and i havent heard about it since

[brittle dirge]

https://www.destinypedia.com/Grimoire:Allies/Tower_Allies#Lady_Efrideet

I did some research, we don’t know

We do know a few fun things about her like according drifter she once destroyed a bar he had

[tepid moth]

god forbid the man has a small business. smh

[brittle dirge]

Real

[blazing wasp]

(Note destinypedia is not a reliable source of information)

Maybe its wrong, maybe its not

[brittle dirge]

I did some extra research and it was an exact copy and paste luckily

[blazing wasp]

They dont always do the copy paste correctly, do note to double check em

[brittle dirge]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/lady-efrideet

I do but this is an example of them being right

[brittle dirge]

So we know of fallen that only have 3 arms instead of 4 (Vosik, mad bomber, etc.)

Do we know of any hive with less than three eyes

[ember storm]

Who’s the first one?

[brittle dirge]

Mistype for Vosik

[ember storm]

Also technically speaking Kaniks (mad bomber) only has two, his bottom pair is prosthetic and the left is just gone because of the whole bad with explosives part

[brittle dirge]

If you don’t know who that is https://www.destinypedia.com/Vosik,_the_Archpriest

1st boss in wrath

[ember storm]

I mean that’s still technically an arm

If you’re counting Variks and Kaniks, because they only really have 2

Amputation is tied to the general house command structure and punishment system, it’s not applicable to hive eyes

[brittle dirge]

Here’s an image that’s better he only has 3

[ember storm]

Every hive we’ve fought either has three eyes or just a giant forehead because thrall/ogre

[brittle dirge]

Devil splicers are different they use amputation to be more in line with their leader, aksis

[ember storm]

that’s just two with an additional apparatus

[ember storm]

Yeah but he only has a top pair of actual arms

[brittle dirge]

And? That’s still an arm

[ember storm]

The thing on the bottom is just a machine

[brittle dirge]

I meant more he’s lacking legs

[ember storm]

It’s not an actual arm or a prosthetic

It’s a weapon

[brittle dirge]

Yes

Aksis has no legs he has the spider thing

[ember storm]

Every Eliksni we’ve fought either has 4 or 2 arms

[brittle dirge]

Vosik has 2-3 arms

[brittle dirge]

So by this logic does Taniks and avarokk both lack arms as they both have 4 robotic ones

[ember storm]

That is literally the point yes?

That’s what prosthetic means

They don’t have actual arms

[brittle dirge]

Still consider them arms

[ember storm]

Ok

[brittle dirge]

They feel different from aksis’ legs as those aren’t legs they’re spider things

[ember storm]

We weren’t talking about legs

[dim minnow]

but they have lost their arms still

[ember storm]

We were talking about arms

Anyway

[brittle dirge]

It’s an example of another limb

[ember storm]

All hive we’ve fought either have all 3 arms

Or none because thrall and ogres are weird

[dim minnow]

anyways, don't know anyting about a two-eyed Knight

[ember storm]

The point of Eliksni biology and docking their arms is that they can regrow their arms

[dim minnow]

there is a Knight who lost an arm

[ember storm]

That’s why dregs and wretches exist

[brittle dirge]

Know about that one

[dim minnow]

to Guardians attackign the Moon furing the Taken War

[brittle dirge]

https://www.destinypedia.com/The_Conversation

this guy?

[ember storm]

He’s an acolyte

[dim minnow]

no

I think his name was Akrazul

his sister Malkanth was planning to usurp Crota's daughters only to get played by Savathun hard

[brittle dirge]

https://www.destinypedia.com/Akrazul,_the_Severed

Oh this one

[dim minnow]

reminder that the Hive canonically have class struggles

[brittle dirge]

Well yeah

The main ones at the top get all the kills/power

[dim minnow]

yeah, just funny to think about

[brittle dirge]

The same is with fallen though

Guess who gets the most ether?

[dim minnow]

the Kell

[brittle dirge]

Exactly

[dim minnow]

but who distributes it?

[brittle dirge]

The prime servitor

[dim minnow]

that's what you got to think about

[dim minnow]

yes, the Servitors

[brittle dirge]

There are exceptions though

Like the devil splicers who didn’t rely on ether anymore

[dim minnow]

they broke their chains

they were inspired by Fikrul after all

he was cast out because he saw the truth

that the Fallen were practically enslaved by the Servitors

[brittle dirge]

Before he became the fanatic

[dim minnow]

I like how Revenant actually touched on that part of his backstory

[brittle dirge]

Machines are god in fallen terms

Servitors are god and thus Atraks is a god

Aksis believed falsely that he could use SIVA to become a machine and thus a god

But he failed

[dim minnow]

funny enough, he actually did transcend being Fallen at that point

since Outbreak's buff to damage against Fallen didn't apply to him

[brittle dirge]

I mean I thought that was just a bug

If we’re going by that logic Taniks is a shank as the bounties for crow for shank kills counted Taniks as such

Being half something /=/ being something in whole

He is still fallen, just not fully anymore

I mean also Taniks wasn’t truly fallen after all he had too many mechanical parts

[frigid sparrow]

literally anything vosik does just has pure raw aura to him

[brittle dirge]

Vosik was one of the coolest raid bosses

[frigid sparrow]

sigma eliksni energy

evil red aura with SIVA surrounding

[brittle dirge]

True

All of the wrath bosses went hard

Aksis my beloved

[frigid sparrow]

splicer devils in general are just a great aesthetic

bungie gotta get rid of house dusk these bitches are boring as hell

losers don't even have a kell

[thorny scarab]

So like what actually are the Shards of Galanor

[dim minnow]

it seems to be linked to a weapon(s) made out of a Golden Age supermetal

which the methods of its creation/repair are lot to time

hence why the shards are grafted into the gauntlets since they couldn't be repaired

and since more of it can't be made, it's better to make use of what little of it is left

[thorny scarab]

Aaaaaaaaah I see

Thank you Dovadah

Feels good to be back in this channel

[dim minnow]

worth noting that several references to death are made in regards to its ornaments

like "Deathwish" and "Thanatic Instinct"

[thorny scarab]

Why is that worth noting?

Just a cool little thing?

[dim minnow]

well it is odd that the reference to death shows up twice

once in an ornament for the exotic itself

and once for a legendary ornament for boots that are tied to the exotic

[thorny scarab]

Hmmmmmmm
That is odd

[trim grotto]

Galanor is intentionally vague.
It offers multiple references to the term, mostly referring to it as a sword.

[dim minnow]

I think most of the references are about what it's made out of

[thorny scarab]

Mael! So happy to see you as well

[thorny scarab]

I concur, even in the more fantastical quotes in its lore, it feels like it’s talking about a material

[dim minnow]

ok

[thorny scarab]

Hmmmm

What else is there to inquire about

[dim minnow]

so the blades seem to have ties to a salvage on Venus

[trim grotto]

The Sword Of Galanor

The Blade of Cutting Flame doesn't refer to its material, but that which holds it. The Alliterative Galanor is a poem. A Theory of Golden Age Supermetals does refer to the materials. Analysis of Venusian Salvage Dindrane-43-59 refers to a satellite of shared name.

[thorny scarab]

Is there any actual lore to the headless ones?

[dim minnow]

and perhaps the probe is made from the same material

[thorny scarab]

Indeed, especially since it was mentioned the probe could go to very extreme temperatures

[dim minnow]

since it is supposed to be strong enough to withstand the upper mantle of yellow stars

but the question is where did the blade shards come from?

[trim grotto]

Sword blades, yes. Like Galanor is said to have been.

[dim minnow]

was someone somehow able to fashion the material from the probe's wreckage into blades which were then later shattered and since knowledge on how to create and repair the metal was long gone, the pieces were grafted onto a pair of gauntlets

[trim grotto]

Or it may not have any true connection to the probe at all, and it is a red herring with a shared name

Don't focus too much on that one aspect if you truly want to figure out what the Galanor is

[dim minnow]

the blade pieces couldn't be from the real mythical Galanor

the probe seems to be a means of linking the exotic's origins to the myth itself

[trim grotto]

I'm not saying it's forged from a literal mythical sword

But someone may have forged the gauntlets with the legend in mind, or from a recreation of the legend

The construction of the actual armour piece I see before me does not suggest carbon fiber heat conductive material of a space probe

They're rusted, bent blades

What it looks like are gauntlets named after a legend, with a name attributed to many aspects across history

[dim minnow]

would have to be a very good reason to put rusted blades on your arm armor

good thing we can't get Tetanus

[trim grotto]

haha yeah

[thorny scarab]

…
Wait can guardians get sick

Like at all?

[dim minnow]

yet

[trim grotto]

Yes, they can. But not easily. Ghosts usually take care of that.

[dim minnow]

the implication by that line from our Ghost says that conventional diseases are trivial if we aren't outright immune to them

[trim grotto]

https://youtu.be/F_E9FSc9RYQ?si=ireboHUKcJb0UHjy
Dova is referencing this like

[thorny scarab]

Well if we can get sick then doesn’t that mean guardians have working internal organs and systems?

[dim minnow]

well yeah

[trim grotto]

Of course

[dim minnow]

we aren't undead

[trim grotto]

We're fully living people

[dim minnow]

maybe infertile

[trim grotto]

It's why folks like Eris Morn still live without their Ghosts

We've tried it all.

The sudden deaths—live fire, through every type of round and range imaginable. The gradual—asphyxiation from force, liquid, vacuum. The biological—super bugs, hazardous materials, radiation.```
Anyway here's a line from a thanatonaut's Ghost

[thorny scarab]

I thought that was dragon magic

[dim minnow]

no, that was different

[trim grotto]

Have you played Final Shape?

[thorny scarab]

Yes!
But you probably can’t count on someone like me to pay attention to all of it

[trim grotto]

Do you remember Targe dying?

[thorny scarab]

Of course

[trim grotto]

Commander Zavala is Ghostless. He still lives.

[thorny scarab]

And Zavala is now getting old
But like eris seems to be just fine

[trim grotto]

As was... every Guardian in the Red War

[thorny scarab]

Ah

Also quick side tangent
Are those hive eyes in Eris’ forehead affecting her health in any way?

[trim grotto]

That hasn't really been covered actually. Circumstantial evidence, or lack thereof, suggests they do not.

[thorny scarab]

Idk what a thanatonaut is but I can infer based on what Thanata means

[dim minnow]

Guardians who kill themselves a lot

intentionally

[trim grotto]

It's a Warlock order who kill themselves to research death. They attempt to have visions in their death.

[dim minnow]

in order to gain knowledge

[thorny scarab]

Yeah
Do they like… do it out of principle or are they asked to?

[dim minnow]

as Mael said, it si for visions

[trim grotto]

It's research.

[thorny scarab]

Wouldn’t think the warlocks would be the ones to kill themselves repeatedly on purpose

[dim minnow]

I think Hard Light was in part created with assistance from them

[trim grotto]

I think they're exactly the ones to do so
They do it for research and knowledge, not for fun

[thorny scarab]

Fair

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/to-map-the-unknown

[thorny scarab]

Dang

Hardcore

Another thing im wondering, since we seem to be hashing a lot of stuff I’ve been wondering about out

How many non-guardian Exos are left?

Because I know like, 2

[trim grotto]

We don't exactly have a population percentage.

Exo were always less common than humans for obvious reasons, so one could reasonably assume that they'd be a minority, and that's without considering that every living Exo has been alive since the Golden Age.

So presumably not a lot.

[thorny scarab]

Oof

Poor peeps

As someone who didn’t play black armory, since I didn’t play when it came out
Who is Izanagi and what is their burden

Is it like the actual sniper rifle or…

[trim grotto]

This is one for google actually
Izanagi is a japanese myth

[thorny scarab]

Ah gotcha

[dim minnow]

lots of naming conventions for Black Armory related things tie into Japanese/Norse mytholgy

and some French stuff

[trim grotto]

Yuri Satou
Henriette Meyrin
Helga Rasmussen

[dim minnow]

yeah

[trim grotto]

Japanese, French, Norse

[dim minnow]

though it seems ironic that Meyrin, the founder we hear the most from, has the fewest Black Armory things named after her culture

I can only think of Le Monarque

meanwhile we got:
Jotuun (weapon)
Volundr (forge)
Bergusia (forge)
Gofannon (forge)
For Rasmussen

[trim grotto]

There's Niobe. That's Greek.

[dim minnow]

then there's:
Izanagi's Burden (weapon)
Izanami (forge)
Ebisu (vault)

almost thought Niobe was Japanese

[sudden horizon]

[dim minnow]

good thing I was going to look it up already

[dim minnow]

is Greek in the same realm as French?

[trim grotto]

Pretty much the opposite end of Europe

[dim minnow]

Bergusia and Gofannon are defined as Celtic

[dim minnow]

so no then

[trim grotto]

Well okay I exaggerate

But I don't believe there are many connections

[dim minnow]

in mythology, Niobe's tale is a cautionary one which states that the gods are quick to punish someone for hubris

so maybe Niobe labs is more meant to relate to the Black Armory's hubris in thinking they could stop the Collapse

[trim grotto]

Ada-1's creation was part of Project Niobe
It was already named that

[dim minnow]

yeah, but I was referring to the thematic meaning behind it

[trim grotto]

From a meta context, perhaps, sure.

[dim minnow]

after all, Niobe Labs is where they all ran to in order to weather out the Collapse

[thorny scarab]

I’m begging you both

Please continue lore dumping

[trim grotto]

On what

[thorny scarab]

Or just explain the whole plot of black armory 😭

[dim minnow]

ok

[thorny scarab]

Don’t particularly care, but I’d prefer Black Armory at the moment
Seeing you both discuss something in your element is entertaining

[dim minnow]

So, we still owed Spider a favor since he helped us hunt down the Scorn Barons during Forsaken. He finally decided to call in that favor by telling us to go help out an acquaintance of his who we find is Ada-1, the curator of the Black Armory.

she wanted us to find the lost forges and get them back up running so we can restore the Black Armory to its former glory. Along the way, we encounter a syndicate of Fallen run by Siviks, Lost to None (who is also Spider's brother)

[trim grotto]

Golden Age black market guns
Give the people stuff to defend themselves from the mystery of the unknown
Helga suggests a walking talking Exo foundry, Henriette dislikes, then Collapse begins. Henriette's daughter Adelaide nearly dies, they put her in the Exo, Collapse and Dark Ages happens, Lightbearers kill the Black Armory remnants, Ada-1 is all who survives

Queue what Dova is talking about, years later

[dim minnow]

Siviks' syndicate, the Kell's Scourge, are anarchists who seek to claim the Black Armory technology for themselves which obviously we do not want

so we continue our operations finding each lost forge, igniting them, and working against Siviks

eventually, we learn of a Black Armory vault that is hidden within the Last City which Siviks is raiding, so we assemble a team and head into the Botza district to stop them

and so we get the Scourge of the Past raid which ends in us destroying Insurrection Prime and forcing Siviks to flee

we then discover Niobe labs where Siviks has ran to

after unlocking the doors to the lab, we find the forgotten Bergusia forge which allows us to find the remaining hidden away secrets of the Black Armory including its history

anyway, we finally hunt down and defeat Siviks and we retrieve an object called the Obsidian Accelerator

this object allows Ada-1 to become a mobile Black Armory forge and allows her to finally reach her goals of restoring the Black Armory

she also finds out she is actually Adeleine, the daughter of Henriette Meyrin (one of the armory's founders)

and that's pretty much the story of Black Armory

[thorny scarab]

BRAVISSIMO

[dim minnow]

as for the lroe reason as to why the BA content went away...

[trim grotto]

Adelaide

[dim minnow]

yeah close enough

[thorny scarab]

Ada took up sewing