📚lore-discussion

[fresh zephyr]

Right

So technically the only thing to go off of is that it's an automatic shotgun

[blazing wasp]

it does not fall under the qualifications of a shotgun, technically automatic shotguns dont either.

[fresh zephyr]

what would it fall under then

[blazing wasp]

Well, the game calls it a lance, not sure thats right either, but thats what they cal it.

[fresh zephyr]

the destinypedia classifies it as an automatic shotgun so im just curious

[blazing wasp]

Destinypedia is not accurate

that is its most defining reputation: not accurate

[fresh zephyr]

ill keep that in mind

[blazing wasp]

while it does not fall under what defines as a shotgun, its effectively one if we go under general perceptions of a "shotgun" in video game terms.

[fresh zephyr]

i think they classify it that way because the shots spread out like a shotgun

[trim grotto]

Be
Very careful
With Dpedia

[empty fern]

Kek

[blazing wasp]

Destinypedia is fanmade, and is not well regulated

You could absolutely get away with outright misinformation there

[fresh zephyr]

whats a better source

[blazing wasp]

ishtar i guess, which is just the lore tabs and such

[fresh zephyr]

oh yeah

[trim grotto]

The actual sources themselves
Such as those hosted on Ishtar or the Destiny Lore Vault

[empty fern]

Behold my claim
The 2 bosses in gos used to be guardians
(I definitely did not listen to evaze)

[blazing wasp]

i cannot think of any "wiki" style website that explains lore like this that is reliable

[blazing wasp]

Calus will return as the witness and the winnower!

[trim grotto]

...evaze suggested the GoS bosses were Lisbons old fireteam?

[fresh zephyr]

so as of now the warp lance is just a heavy shotgun-like weapon?

[empty fern]

Ye, in his “little fact about every raid boss” vid

[blazing wasp]

evaze has some far fetched spinfoil theories i am not entirely convinced are not outright satire

[empty fern]

[trim grotto]

We don't actually have any lore on Wyverns. They've been mentioned offhandedly once, and we've got nothing else on them but their names, in game functions, and appearances.

[blazing wasp]

if you think byf's theories are unhinged, evaze has placed the train in a different continent.

[empty fern]

When the wyvern gun isn’t about wyvern

[fresh zephyr]

very unfortunate

[empty fern]

Oooo wait,

Have you gotten ingame and read Achilles weaves a cocoon lore book?

[fresh zephyr]

i think there is a lore reason the vex can probably rapid fire

[fresh zephyr]

no

[empty fern]

Go read it

[blazing wasp]

When you say "rapid fire" do you mean just full auto, or fire at a comedic rate of fire

[fresh zephyr]

full auto or very fast semi auto

[blazing wasp]

The vex presumably already fire at full auto.

[fresh zephyr]

its because of the source of their ammo

[blazing wasp]

we do not know their source of ammo

do we?

[empty fern]

Vex mytho last
Why human hands

[blazing wasp]

i mean sure we know that they generally use solar and void

[fresh zephyr]

from across time and from teleportation

they basically teleport ammo

[empty fern]

Oh god

[blazing wasp]

i was not aware of this, may i have the lore tab or whatever that tells us this?

[empty fern]

The whole vex time travel thing

[blazing wasp]

as that does sound like an interesting read

[fresh zephyr]

but this info is from dpedia so take it with a grain of salt

[blazing wasp]

a "grain of salt" undermines how sceptical you should be of destinypedia.

I think that the appropriate measures of salt you should take dpedia with is enough to kill a man.

[fresh zephyr]

"From a tactical perspective, the Slap Rifle is a Vex directed-energy weapon that fills their analog of the light infantry role. From an engineering perspective it's something much more interesting: a terminal. The Slap Rifle receives a bolt of Solar energy from somewhere (or somewhen) else and it points it at a target.

references from the grimoire on the slap rifle

[blazing wasp]

This is heavy speculation deriving from vex mythoclast

sounds like it at least

[empty fern]

I miss my grimore cards

[blazing wasp]

oh wait this is actually just the grimore card?

ah

[fresh zephyr]

yep

[blazing wasp]

yeah interpreting that as "time travel shenanigans" as the source sounds like something dpedia would do

but the vex are technologically simple, and also advanced

[fresh zephyr]

it could also just be teleporting from another present location

[blazing wasp]

or they have a form of functionality within the gun serving as battery or magazine

we dont know, we cant fire it.

[empty fern]

Star Wars gun blaster logic

[blazing wasp]

Its less of a weapon anyway

[fresh zephyr]

multi tool

[blazing wasp]

The vex are heavily implied to not really consist of "soldiers"

[fresh zephyr]

right

out of all of them the wyvern seems to be the most suited for combat

with its protective shield armor and heavy weaponry

[blazing wasp]

wyverns could simply just be ment to protect workers, hence the shielding

if the wyverns were intended to clear debris, it would add up

[fresh zephyr]

all the frames we see are multi functional

[blazing wasp]

high power, high spread weaponry, wide shielding

The vex likely does not need combat units

[fresh zephyr]

and thats the scary thing

[blazing wasp]

we are unlikely to be a significant threat to the vex, very much feasible we are but a spec in the vex' current conquest efforts

[fresh zephyr]

they see a guardian take down lots regular sized minotaurs then they'll just make a bigger one

the frames they use are just that good i guess

simple and effective

wait

there have been regular full auto vex weaponry

protheon, modular mind had an auto slap rifle

[brittle dirge]

Does aksis have any lore relevancy now?

Pretty sure last time he was mentioned was The Once Ship Stealer

[eager trout]

So that's the thing with the Vex. They already won.

[ember storm]

More like they just have no reason to try all out war

They can and will just wait until the opportunity presents itself to swiftly take us out

They’re not going to waste time and resources trying to strongarm us

[eager trout]

When you think about it, the Vex fighting us are the equivalent of average workers using their everyday tools as improvised weapons

[fresh zephyr]

only exception could be wyverns

and even then they are used as axis minds sometimes

[ember storm]

For consideration, their weapons could also adhere to the tool naming convention

[trim grotto]

Well Aksis was killed like 8 years ago

[brittle dirge]

Yeah?

He was one of the most powerful fallen though

[trim grotto]

For a pretty short while.

There's not much lore relevance he can have being dead for 80% of the game's lifespan

With SIVA and the Devil Splicers both gone

[brittle dirge]

I mean most of the Devil splicers retreated to salvation

Like most devils

[trim grotto]

The remnants did. Which means the faction is gone, hence my point.

Only reference the Devil Splicers got for a long time was a vague comparison to Sacred Splicers

[brittle dirge]

I never said you were wrong

You are quite correct

Salvation is a house of many previous groups of fallen

Kell’s Scourge is a great example

[trim grotto]

Like Dusk, but marginally more effectively organised.

[trim grotto]

Yo @dim minnow, got a query for you

Remember wordofpassage? Password?
They're planning on creating a Destiny Recap Project to essentially replace the Previously On Destiny site that's no longer functional. I know you made some summaries before yourself, so I was wondering if you'd be willing to give them a hand in creating a lil' community resource.

[brittle dirge]

What did Argos really even do?

[jagged badge]

Well it’s been really helpful for shopping over the years

As a kid I used to love just looking at the Argos catalogue while my mom picked something up from there

[slim girder]

Think the pale heart will ever close? Crow describes the aurora as a wound that's bleeding into open space and we're all healing the traveler so I wonder if there will be a point where the traveler can close its wound left by the witness.

Micah says it'll take years to reverse the damage done so that tells me there is something that can change with enough time.

[trim grotto]

Perhaps, but the Traveler will remain forever changed even if it does.

[slim girder]

Maybe if it closes there will be a huge scar left behind. With the amount of damage the witness did to it I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of it was irreversible.

Also curious what could possibly happen to the traveler in the future. There's still a lot we don't know about it or what it's capable of doing.

[ember storm]

Manage the conversion of Nessus and acted as the planetary core

Intentional or not, it ended up sucked up by the leviathan and stopped the consumption of Nessus

[slim girder]

I wonder if there's anything of value on the Leviathan anymore. We killed calus and as far as we know it's still just a derelict covered in egregore.

Maybe caiatl could find some use for it or something her father left behind that she could be interested in.

[slim elk]

The cloning vats would be useful if we can recover the tech

And if nothing else it's a massive stockpile of valuable resources we can strip from the ship itself (the metals in the hull)

[slim girder]

Also a incomprehensible amount of food since calus was to be exiled on it.

And wine

A lot of wine

[eager trout]

But considering Cabal biology, the wine is probably closer to gasoline in composition (I don't know anything about Cabal biology other than the fact they're virtually immortal)

[brittle dirge]

I see…

Uh Nessus isn’t a planet though

It’s a centaur

[ember storm]

His title is “planetary core” and characters refer to Nessus as a planet in echoes

The distinction doesn’t totally matter, it’s far from a normal centaur now

I’m pretty sure they actually altered its size and orbit

[brittle dirge]

The vex probably did tbh

[ember storm]

I mean that’s part of why the exodus black crashed in the first place

It was wildly out of normal orbit

[brittle dirge]

But its current irl equivalent is a centaur still

[eager trout]

A what

[tired lava]

Do any of you guys have any info about Abuela Eva's family?

[brittle dirge]

A type of celestial body

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centaur_(small_Solar_System_body)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/7066_Nessus

the Nessus in destiny

[eager trout]

Oh, cool. Thanks

[eager trout]

Wait, NESSUS IS A REAL PLACE????

[brittle dirge]

Yes

It’s a real centaur

[blazing wasp]

Every planet and moon and such we can visit are real locations

Excluding obvious exceptions like savathuns throne world

[eager trout]

Eternity:

[blazing wasp]

.

Eternity isn't like, a moon, not a centaur, not a planet

[dim minnow]

They're dead

[dim minnow]

Eternity appears to be in the IX realms

[blazing wasp]

I mean that it's not a real location, like nessus, europa, etc

[dim minnow]

IX realms are real

Been there myself

[blazing wasp]

Oh right I forgot you can do that

[brittle dirge]

Europa - Jupiter’s largest moon

Btw

[blazing wasp]

Yes

Europa was the examples of real places

That's why I also mentioned nessus

[brittle dirge]

Ik I just like europa

I like to share facts about it

[blazing wasp]

It is neat

Not as neat as io

But neat

[brittle dirge]

My favorite moon next to Titan

Io is also a real moon fun fact

A lot of people don’t know that

[blazing wasp]

Io is p cool

[brittle dirge]

Our moon is 100% like the most boring of all planet moons

Like Saturn has 146 and we have… 1

At least we’re not Venus or Mercury though

Imagine having no moons

[blazing wasp]

Ok, counter argument

Solar eclipse

[brittle dirge]

Ig yeah

[blazing wasp]

Solar eclipses like ours is very very rare

[brittle dirge]

Real because rotation moments

[blazing wasp]

Not just that, but the size and distance ratio compared to the sun

[ember storm]

Yeah it is it’s called Delaware

[ember storm]

Our moon is made of cheese

[brittle dirge]

Delaware isn’t real

[grave wharf]

Miss Titan a lot

Like the patrol zone

[trim grotto]

🫵You!

[jagged badge]

Woah it Eruke

[grave wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/me-david-rose-are-you-talking-to-me-who-turn-around-gif-27634884

[dim minnow]

who?

[trim grotto]

You'd know if you were in the Cryptarchy
Speaking of which
Did'ja see my question for you earlier?

[dim minnow]

don't think so

what was it?

[dim minnow]

ok I can see what I'll do

[fervent sandal]

what exactly is euphony? is it made from the witness i mean like where did it come from?

[ember storm]

More than likely a precursor artifact of some sort

[fervent sandal]

hm

[ember storm]

Lore tab describes an inscription found in the pale heart describing the same general idea that euphony does

“The final shape is the golden harp, and we are the hand that plucks”

[fervent sandal]

hm

[tawdry wigeon]

Tfs was amazing. I love the story so much but im afraid that echoes and revenant will be uh not close to its level.. should i keep my expectations low?

[ember storm]

I mean one is the climax of a 10 year narrative and the other two are followups to tie up loose ends

[tawdry wigeon]

I mean yea ofc, but are they close to lightfalls level?

[ember storm]

To be completely honest the only reason people don’t like Lightfall is nimbus and not understanding that Osiris was having a character arc

Nothing in the game is at the level of what people say LF was

if you are genuinely invested in destiny and its characters, seasonal stories are never at “that” level

Seasons just tend to take a more personal approach rather than a grand narrative one

[tawdry wigeon]

I never said lf was bad tho? I liked lf just cause osiris was involved

I just yk wanted to know if the seasonal stories that follow are going to be blunt but ig thats up to the player

[ember storm]

Ah, apologies

Whenever someone describes a story as “Lightfall” it’s almost always an insult

It was not received well on launch

Dunno what you mean by blunt but I’ve been enjoying the episodes so far

[tawdry wigeon]

Well ppl hoped for something different, the expectations were too high

[ember storm]

They’re not going to be like Defiant if that’s what you’re wondering

There is a active story and character development

[tawdry wigeon]

Oh really? Ive heard negative things but hey ill be playing them and ill see what they got to offer

[ember storm]

Sometimes plots aren’t as conclusive as people like and they find that to be indicative of actual quality

Like were people treating infinity war like shit because it ended on a huge cliffhanger too

[tawdry wigeon]

Ohh awesome i thought it was like progress-filler-too much talking-cliffhanger

[ember storm]

A lot of the time it just comes down to the general audience of destiny either being extremely simplistic “I buy dlc to shoot gun so bad guy dies” or just watched streamers who are that way

[tawdry wigeon]

Ive never seen that tbh

[tawdry wigeon]

True

[ember storm]

The episodes are going to be about tying up loose ends while leaving stuff open to be touched upon later

[tawdry wigeon]

They cant handle complex stories

[ember storm]

Although a funny thing outside of the story

[tawdry wigeon]

Thats good then ill enjoy them

[ember storm]

People were complaining about Echoes story releasing as weekly beats

So then for this episode bungie allowed all of Revenant’s Act 1 to be playable on launch

What did people do? Complain it was too short

You just can’t win

[tawdry wigeon]

.....

They basically like to bitch about everything

Got it

[ember storm]

A good rule of thumb I have is to just never look at reddit ever

[tawdry wigeon]

Oh same same

I ask here whatever i want to know

[ember storm]

That’s a good idea

You get to hear about wonderful things like doghives or the Petra twitlonger callout post

[grave wharf]

No one of consequence

Just a friendly neighborhood lore hound

[eager trout]

Honestly, I liked Osiris' arc and Nimbus' serious moments. When you think about it, it seems Osiris and Saint-14 are at their best (in terms of characterization) when they're away from each other, because otherwise it just turns into a love story where we're the third wheel.

However, I didn't really notice Osiris having an arc until you mentioned it because I don't know how recent it was that he lost Sagira.

[slim elk]

Eh, would argue that Neomuna really didnt live up to its potential as a location in both gameplay and story

Seriously, its an entire city yet everyone in it has the same faceless hologram.. not even differing colors

For a city under siege it doesnt feel like it either. Could of had a running event where Guardian provide cover for fleeing civilains

[eager trout]

Plus, the fact it's the place that introduced Strand but there's not really much where Strand movement is useful except for the areas you wouldn't visit anyways.

[ember storm]

But we placed destination collectibles 50 feet in the air with no natural paths

[slim girder]

Losing sagira really hurt Osiris. Even if it happened back in season of the hunt we saw in lightfall that he still forgot she was gone. And now she rests in the hall of heroes on neomuna next to Rohans memorial

Wait actually. I believe it was even before season of the hunt pre beyond light because we had a series of radio messages from him which included a report that sagira sacrificed herself to save Osiris

[dim minnow]

never really had a chance to think on it

ever since Hunt he was possessed by Savathun

until Lost when he was left in a coma for a while

then in the end of Plunder he finally came back into the fold only to put all of his focus into finding the Veil

[slim girder]

I'm sure he was still thinking about sagira. He was possessed yes but we learned that it was more like he was trapped in his own mind watching savathun use him to lie to everyone.

[ruby pivot]

can someone clarify to me, is mithrax being influenced by nezzy or mithrax is slowly morphing into nezzy or its both?

its mithrax being influenced by nezzy right?

i know we dont have much in terms of lore but is there any implication?

[jagged badge]

Unsure tbh

[ruby pivot]

i guess we will see in the future parts then

i kinda hope we're not going to kill mithrax ourself

but if he will die, i hope he becomes the first eliksni guardian

though, id rather not

[slim girder]

It's a bit of both to my understanding. He's been cursed and slowly he could essentially have nezarec use his body as a vessel to manifest again even though we killed him.

There was a moment in this acts story where that nezarec influence came through and Mithrax started speaking differently.

[brittle dirge]

Don’t know how many people know this but Nezarec never died, his body simply did

[fast tapir]

yeah thats like

the whole thing about him

[brittle dirge]

They set this up since plunder and made it concrete in Ron’s final speech after he dies

[slim girder]

Yes. That's what I'm talking about. Nezarec can use Mithraxs body to manifest himself again.
He is the idea of fear, can't really kill something like that and he even says it himself that he'll never die.

It's like if you try to kill gravity if it was a person

[brittle dirge]

He is also the embodiment of nightmares which can’t really be destroyed

Everybody has nightmares

[slim girder]

Yeah fear and nightmares go hand in hand though so my point still stands

[brittle dirge]

I am agreeing with you

What I brought up earlier with him undying is more me adding on evidence to your claim

[slim girder]

Ah ok then.

[brittle dirge]

Only thing I must say is can they please stop making a shit character design such awesome lore

[slim girder]

Well nezarec when we met him was an abomination and an unholy mix of light and dark. Like he's literally screaming and having outbursts of energy.
But his true form is probably something much more fear inducing. If I had to guess based on the statue in lightfall he looks like a tormentor version of the grim reaper

[ruby pivot]

where is the statue?

[brittle dirge]

Yes, I know

They have a canon reason why it’s an eh design but it still doesn’t make it that great

The mask is amazing, I love it

The body is where I dislike it

[brittle dirge]

Ron iirc

[slim girder]

Lightfall intro Cutscene. It appears during a shot of the witness walking through a ship.

[ruby pivot]

aight ima look into it and really at the cutscene? i guess i was not paying attention

ty

[slim girder]

Yeah it's just on the side around the start I believe

[ruby pivot]

ohhh that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFAcUlO076E

in 0:37 for those who wanna check out but i doubt it

[slim girder]

Yes

That's him

That's what he's supposed to look like apparently but due to how he's been brought back in Ron he's all warped and as I said more an abomination.

[ruby pivot]

no wonder who looks like some sort of fat butterfly

[slim girder]

Mhm

[ruby pivot]

so thats actually not his body supposed to look like huh

it got morph becaused of his resurrection

[slim girder]

His head is the only part that's actually supposed to look the way it does

[slim girder]

Yes. His body is this unholy clash of light and dark which is why in ron he is screaming and that energy is bursting from him uncontrollably

He was being rebuilt slowly by the witness but the travelers beam messed up the process.

[eager trout]

What exactly was what the Witness saw when it tried to open the portal? And why did the Traveler's beam not affect the Witness?

[ember storm]

The traveler’s beam was made of pure terraforming light, the same thing it used to vitalize planets

The witness is a being comprised of pure darkness, so it just passed right through

What the witness saw was a vision of the veil and the location of neomuna, which is why it then sent Calus to secure it

[eager trout]

But doesn't light technically "eliminate" darkness? At least in real life

[ember storm]

No, if anything, darkness only exists because light is there to create contrast

[eager trout]

Overly convenient

[eager trout]

Yes, but if you shine light on a shadow, the shadow disappears

[ember storm]

You know they’re not literally the concept of light and darkness

Darkness energy also creates physical light ingame

[eager trout]

Yeah, but it doesn't make sense for those forces to not affect each other. Or more like, for one to not affect the other, but the other being overwhelming for the former.

[ember storm]

The Witness isn’t the opposite of the traveler

It used the power of the veil to make itself perfected in the physical sense

[sick yew]

Me when the powers that canonicaly break the laws of physics don't make sense

[ember storm]

Not even light could affect it then

That was the whole point of becoming the witness

The precursors literally immortalized their ideology by combining themselves to create it

By design the traveler is not a destroyer

You’d notice the terraforming beam wasn’t simply destroying pyramids, but creating giant trees of silver wings that tore the ships apart as they grew

It simply had no affect on the witness because there’s no spark for life to ignite

It’s the exact opposite of a living thing

[slim girder]

The witness is an idea made into a being.

It's not a singular person or anything.

Also the travelers beam did destroy the ships but not in the conventional way. It's a bit like how in some media you might see people instead of being killed turned into something like a tree or another object.

[eager trout]

Can the Traveler use the Light elements separately?

[slim girder]

Most likely yes

I'd go so far as to say an example of this was when we got our new supers during the final shape campaign.

[ember storm]

Light elements is our interpretation of the unfathomable power of the light itself

They’re forces we’re already familiar with from everyday life and we interpret the light that way

I honestly don’t think the traveler would care to do so, it’s way of thinking is completely different from ours

[eager trout]

So we could technically develop new Light subclasses by learning about other things?

[ember storm]

Yes but you have to consider the vast majority of guardians have barely mastered just one element

Something completely and wholly new is asking a lot

You’d first have to discover the new element to begin with

[eager trout]

I'm just saying it from a gameplay perspective

[ember storm]

From a gameplay perspective the guardian has the self agency of a brick and only learns new power when specifically told to do so

[eager trout]

We could probably discover new elements by traveling to planets the Traveler has helped before and learning about how they interpreted Light there

[slim girder]

The only time our guardian seemed to do something on their own was learning the 15th wish

[ember storm]

That’s not what I mean

Arc, solar, and void aren’t just human constructs

They’re the 3 most basic physical elements for the whole universe

Every race utilizes them

That’s why hive Lightbearers are also limited to them

We’d have to discover an entirely new element that nobody has ever been familiar with before, and it would have to be a natural phenomenon unlike strand

That’s asking a lot

[eager trout]

But they're only three of the funamental forces of the universe...

[ember storm]

Yeah that’s the point

You’re saying “why don’t we just discover a new element”

[eager trout]

Isn't there like 4?

Or 5?

[ember storm]

How do we?

[ember storm]

You’re thinking of matter

Elements are energy

If you can discover an entire new concept of energy that’s naturally occurring, sure

You could probably manifest the light that way

[eager trout]

Aren't the fundamental forces of the universe: weak, strong (Solar), electromagnetic (Arc), and gravitational (Void)?

[ember storm]

I’m not familiar with those

But no not really

Destiny does not categorize them that way

[eager trout]

Isn't Strand something natural but that only manifests in a tangible form when the Veil is nearby due to its power?

[eager trout]

I mean, but it makes sense, since Solar is nuclear fusion, Arc is atomic bond, and Void is gravity, what keeps the universe together

[ember storm]

No, strand is its own power born from the weave

[eager trout]

The what

[ember storm]

It only exists in a paracausal form because we make it that way

The psychic strings tying the universe together is called the weave

https://youtu.be/3UKeMo3UerU?si=YGM4-7tWMTFk6v6h

[eager trout]

So technically Darkness is the only paracasual force that can have a virtually unlimited number of subclasses due to being able to turn basically any concept the writers want to give an explanation to into a subclass?

[ember storm]

I mean I don’t really liking it to “the writers say so”

That sort of ruins any meaningful discussion you can have about the concepts

[eager trout]

I'm just saying that since Darkness is about abstract concepts, the writers could turn anything into a subclass as long as they back it up with lore

By giving it lore

[ember storm]

Darkness is about mental aspects

Light is physical

[eager trout]

And since Darkness wasn't really known well by us until recently, there would be no conflict with previous lore

[eager trout]

Wait, wouldn't that mean the rumored poison subclass from the Hive would have been something like...mental illness?

[ember storm]

It’s not a subclass

[slim girder]

That's not darkness

[ember storm]

That’s just something they came up with on their own

Soulfire is not linked to darkness

[eager trout]

But wasn't it altered by darkness? At least indirectly when the Witness corrupted the Krill

[slim girder]

No

[ember storm]

Soulfire is not tied to their worms or darkness

[slim girder]

Poison or hive soulfire is not tied to darkness. It's just something the hive use as a weapon

[ember storm]

Eris has been using it for years without connections to either

[eager trout]

Well anyway, what's the explanation for Striga Osea? Is it influencing the Warlock that created it, or is she just insane and obsessed?

[slim girder]

It influences her

[ember storm]

Soulfire is just a thing people can do if they know how

[eager trout]

How?

[ember storm]

Savathun tricked golden age families into participating in hive rituals

[slim girder]

Promising power.

[ember storm]

The warlock who made it just created osteo because she wanted to

She didn’t discover it, nobody else had any impact on it

[slim girder]

And also corrupting the mind

[ember storm]

She studied hive magic and made it herself after becoming obsessed with the original thorn

It was born out of legitimate madness

[eager trout]

So we could technically use it eventually if they add non-paracasual subclasses?

[ember storm]

She was not corrupted by any outside force

[eager trout]

How?

[ember storm]

The usage of weapons like necrochasm is the use

That’s it

It won’t be a subclass

[eager trout]

Ok then, what about other possible Darkness subclasses?

[ember storm]

Bungie has made it clear if they’re ever to make another subclass, it will be something totally new

[eager trout]

Like the energy from Vesper's Host?

[ember storm]

They don’t want to just tread old ground, especially after pris

[ember storm]

Isn’t that just described to be weird arc energy

[eager trout]

I haven't played it, but from what I understand and remember, it's described as "corrupted Arc", or something that registers as Arc when scanned but may be something different

Like the Darkness parallel of Arc

[slim girder]

Again. It's corrupts the mind. It's how the original thorn turned rezyl into dredgen yor. The weapons of sorrow are dark weapons speculated to be the hives attempt at turning us against each other. Osteo striga was born out of this need when studying what is believed to be the original thorn by jana 14.

[blazing wasp]

I've watched too many lore videos insisting the VH arc is the next subclass.

[trim grotto]

Vesper Central: Power draw on that anomaly is far beyond safe limits. Arc energy shouldn’t be that color.

it's just overcharged

[blazing wasp]

Despite that shit being very physical

[slim girder]

It's unstable.

[blazing wasp]

Also we have zero implication darkness is involved with VH, no?

[slim girder]

Yes

Nothing darkness related

It's all about this new corruption that's taken over the eliksni

Something very unknown

[blazing wasp]

At most, possibly vex related, but probably something new

[slim girder]

The anomaly is vex related but that's it

And also it's not a portal

It's an array

[eager trout]

Is it specified that the color comes from it being overcharged?

[fast tapir]

big space phone

[eager trout]

I want more Vex weapons

[trim grotto]

Given that this is all that's mentioned, that would be the implication, yes.

[blazing wasp]

Darkness is a rather significant stretch in comparison without additional information

[eager trout]

What's the explanation for the Echoes Vex weapons?

[blazing wasp]

We may get more in time

[trim grotto]

There isn't one. They just are.

You could reason that it's related to Failsafe or the Conductor, but that's about it.

[eager trout]

Well, I saw someone who said the burst of energy that kills you if you don't do something in time is similar to Nezarec's burst of energy that does the same thing.

[blazing wasp]

In color sure but that would imply that the arc is not arc

Zero arc

Only resonance

We've seen nothing that implies resonance in VH besides

[eager trout]

Also, if the Vex Mythoclast was created by the Vex, wouldn't that mean it has the same additional functions of the other Vex-made weapons?

[trim grotto]

We don't know the origin of the Mythoclast. That's the point of its lore tab.

[blazing wasp]

We don't know if mythoclast was made by the vex

We know it is made in a way human hands can wield it

[eager trout]

If not, by who?

[blazing wasp]

We don't know what made it or even if someone made it

[blazing wasp]

We don't know

[eager trout]

It's too Vexy

[blazing wasp]

It's explicitly stated we've got no fucking idea

[eager trout]

Doesn't look like something put together with Vex tech

[trim grotto]

Yes. It's the Vex Mythoclast. But we do not know its origins.

[blazing wasp]

It could be a natural formation of us fucking with the vault, it could be made by someone, it could be something else

Intentionally so: we have no idea

[eager trout]

Wasn't there a Guardian who got trapped inside the Vault in the past?

[blazing wasp]

Yes

[trim grotto]

Praedyth.

[slim girder]

Praedyth

[blazing wasp]

A team of three, one remained trapped, one turned into a shield and one... Uh

[eager trout]

How much do we know?

[blazing wasp]

I'm unsure actually on the thingabob

[eager trout]

Wait, a shield? You mean the shield we use in the raid?

[trim grotto]

Of Praedyth? His body is dead, yet he exists on within the network. A singular, but he found the 227.

[trim grotto]

Yes. Kabr's Aegis. Created by Kabr the Legionless, who drank of the Oracles and was turned to Vex.

He didn't become it

But he created it before he died

[eager trout]

What do we know about the one who got lost?

[trim grotto]

You mean the third member? Pahanin actually escaped. It's why we know of the Vault and the fireteam in the first place.

He was, however, killed some time later by Dredgen Yor.

[sick yew]

Smh

[eager trout]

I mean the one who got lost/trapped inside the Vault

[trim grotto]

Praedyth or Kabr?

[eager trout]

The one that didn't make the shield

[trim grotto]

Praedyth. As I said, his body is dead, yet he exists on within the network. A singular being, but he found the 227.

[eager trout]

The 227 what?

[trim grotto]

The Ishtar Collective research team. Maya Sundaresh, Chioma Esi, so on.

[eager trout]

Ah

Found them in the network?

[slim girder]

He was a part of the great hunt and the reason he actually got trapped in the vault was through an accidental wish while fighting an ahamkara. He wished for the fight to never end and so got his wish in the vault.

[trim grotto]

The 227 are simulated copies in the network, yes.

[eager trout]

You'd think Guardians would watch their words when dealing with an Ahamkara

[trim grotto]

It wasn't usually verbal.

[slim girder]

It was a thought

[blazing wasp]

It just needs to be a wish

[trim grotto]

Sometimes it wasn't even entirely conscious.

[blazing wasp]

Oh man it must suck being hungry around ahamkaras

[slim girder]

He was just blindly having fun and wished it didn't end. But the ahamkara saw this and granted that wish

[eager trout]

"I wish for a sandwich"

[fast tapir]

surely they cant twist that right?

simple sandwich

ham and cheese please.

[slim girder]

They give you 2 pieces of bread with something disgusting in between

Or not even something edible

[ember storm]

They sandwich you between two boulders and leave you to die

[uneven canyon]

Who’s the Apothecary?

[empty fern]

A place I think

[ember storm]

the apothecary who made tonics n shit before eido

old house thing

[frigid sparrow]

Pretty sure her name is Ixis, house salvation apothecary who we're seeking out for help with aiding mithrax/fighting fikrul

[next bobcat]

He made super good advice later didn’t he?

[brittle dirge]

Lore behind headless ones?

[next bobcat]

Why do you ask

[dim minnow]

ingame we have several theories as to what they are

but the end of the first Tales of the Forgotten lore book has the most plausible

that they were created by Nokris

[brittle dirge]

That one makes the most sense

But what’s with the pumpkin head

[dim minnow]

yeah, because clearly they aren't exos, guardians, or Golden Age miners

[dim minnow]

who knows, Cayde once empowered an artichoke with Hive magic

maybe Nokris found the pumpkins in an old Braytech farm or whatever and used them

the time rifts on Mars in WQ show that Mars had farms

[brittle dirge]

Drifter and Eido questioning it was fun ig

[dim minnow]

it's liek they ignore the fact that Headless ones are clearly Hive

maybe if they made the design more ambiguous

[brittle dirge]

They decided it couldn’t be cabal but the head wasn’t anything but human

Like obviously it’s a hive knight

[dim minnow]

also the pumpkins have 3 eyes

[brittle dirge]

Like hive

[dim minnow]

you messed it up twice

[brittle dirge]

The pumpkin mask is the same

[dim minnow]

delete the word

[brittle dirge]

No I didn’t

You imagined it

What happened to the space cats in the helm

[dim minnow]

HELM got updated (now it won't be anymore) so the star cats went away

as well as our aquarium

[brittle dirge]

Yeah I know

But like the lore reason

[dim minnow]

maybe they're chilling with Mara

[eager trout]

To be fair, neither of them are directly looking at them, and amidst the chaos caused by Guardians fighting them, it's not exactly easy to see them well if you're not there. And they do mention that they look like Hive.

[trim grotto]

Yes. He grew afraid of being alone after the Vault.

[next bobcat]

Fair.

[fresh zephyr]

how many vandals and dregs and captains would it take to kill a wyvern

[dapper moss]

probably not that many captains

they're pretty formidable in groups

[fresh zephyr]

i imagine that a wyverns warp lance would be good at clearing hordes

[robust lark]

Did anything ever happen to Fynch after the end of Witch Queen? I've heard lines from Immaru in Festival of the lost (Talking to Shaxx at the end of completing a haunted sector) so does that mean Fynch is well or no?

[jagged badge]

Fynch is still there

[robust lark]

Alright, thanks for letting me know

[thick wharf]

hear me out, so when you get squad wiped in vog right, you get trapped in the dark corners of time in an endless paradox. when you respawn after your team dies in-game, i like to think every time you come back it’s consecutively reshaped in another universe where that fate never happened

[somber pendant]

lore wise how did human lifespan triple because of the traveler

[jagged badge]

Unknown, I believe

Unknown whether it’s some inherent magical effect or a proxy effect by way of the Traveler helping us to advance medically or whatever

[eager trout]

Probably scientific advancements managed to mitigate or eliminate at least some of the factors that cause us to age and die relatively quickly, since the human body is actually designed to perpertually regenerate itself, and aging doesn't really have an explanation.

[somber pendant]

tbh i still dont really understand what the traveler even like

did

what did it do

i understand what it does for guardians

but for eliksni and humans?

[somber pendant]

SHAXX AND MARA SOV DID WHAT?!?!????!?!

[heady monolith]

nothing

shaxx just recited poetry to mara

nothing else happened

[tough kettle]

not this again 😭
my man shaxx would never do weird stuff...

[trim grotto]

Lord Shaxx read The Tempest to Queen Mara. As in, the play by Shakespear.
They spoke about Sjur Eido, Mara's lost lover, whom Shaxx was friends with himself.

[trim grotto]

Terraformed our worlds in our respective solar systems. Gave us room to grow, expand, live in harmony. We developed new technologies, even some rare few involving the Light.

[solid hearth]

thank you

[ornate pike]

Idk if I count this as a critizim or just kinda the ultimate end of a theme but like
I kinda don't like how many darkness based enemies we've fought are just 'The darkness manipulated me/inspired me to think a certain way that benifits me'
Clovis, Eramis, Rulk, Calus, the hive and even
the witness
The darkness may not be bad but i stg even beyond just the witness's influence even the precursors saw the darkness and said
"Yeah I'm gonna make my newly found ideals EVERYONE'S PROBLEM"

[jagged badge]

I’d argue that with the Precursors, their ideals were theirs and the Darkness merely gave them the means to act on them

[ornate pike]

Maybe
I get part of their ideals came from a lack of purpose
but man that sometimes sounds a little too
Winnower

[blazing wasp]

The winnowers ideals dont really reflect on the actions committed by the witness n' co (assuming the winnower is real ofc)

[slim girder]

I don't think Clovis would have been any different if he wasn't influenced by the witness. He still definitely would have continued doing inhumane experiments.

[blazing wasp]

Darkness is a tool

[slim girder]

The darkness just played into his whole god complex

[blazing wasp]

If someone begins doing robberies the moment they got a hammer, the hammer didnt make em evil

they just needed a hammer.

[fast tapir]

the hammer talks to me

it tells me to do things

[slim girder]

True titan behaviour

Actually now that I'm thinking about Clovis and Calus actually had some pretty similar personalities. Both are massive narcissists, both did inhumane experiments to try and commune with what they believed was a higher being in search of power and both believe themselves to be more worthy than others.

[ruby pivot]

hey question do we have guardian blacksmiths in lore?

[slim girder]

I don't believe so

[blazing wasp]

well, drifter has made some guns

[slim girder]

Foundries make pretty much everything

[blazing wasp]

hes not a guardian but

hes a lightbearer

[slim girder]

Some have made weapons though.

[ruby pivot]

thats....surprising i assume some titans would create their own weapons

considering they got a hammer

for a super

[slim girder]

Sunshots creator is a titan

[ruby pivot]

oh neat

[blazing wasp]

Some guardians have made weaponry, but they are not generally so

just because you have the tools to be a blacksmith dont mean youll be one

[ruby pivot]

hmm true

[blazing wasp]

i mean shit, every guardian can manifest a hammer

titans just do it easier

[slim girder]

It's only a few cases. Usually desperate like with super good advice

[ruby pivot]

but in terms of making their own guns, i guess thats the specialty of the factions ye?

and banshee

[slim girder]

Pretty much

[blazing wasp]

No reason not to leave the gunmaking to the pros

[slim girder]

The foundries, banshee and lots of other parties discuss that area of craft

[blazing wasp]

Banshee appears to be just a generally skilled gunsmith, while most foundries specialise

Like veist, generally lightweight and high rate of fire weaponry

[ruby pivot]

foundries? was this mentioned during shadowkeep-TFS? (i played around shadowkeep)

[blazing wasp]

veist, tex, omolon and stuff, they are the foundries

like

weapon foundries

[ruby pivot]

if not, can you tell me what are they because ill assume they are the biggest weapon sellers

oh

[blazing wasp]

like the word foundry.

[slim girder]

I like to see banshee as the one who specialises in guardian weaponry. Whereas the foundries supply all of the city's forces.

[ruby pivot]

so its a collective of companies

[blazing wasp]

nono

foundry

the word

like the word foundry

foundries is a group of more than one foundry

[ruby pivot]

ahhh alright ok i got it now

[blazing wasp]

They dont appear to be more than positive rivals though

[ruby pivot]

i thought thats just their name as an entire group like "union of merchant" or something

[ruby pivot]

how bad is the rivalry though?

is it to the point of assassinations? or just your typical company sabotaging each other

[slim girder]

It's just your usual company rivalry

Apple vs android type stuff

Like a bunch of car manufacturers

@ruby pivot here's some lore from a board meeting with some of the reps of those foundries when talking about the weapons being brought back for into the light..

[blazing wasp]

all of the guns are enjoyed by guardians and such

Some just prefer other types

uh oh

[frigid sparrow]

"they would have turned the crucible into the graveyard" my brother in the traveler worse things have happened in the crucible WITHOUT these guns

Like how many guardians have been permakilled that we know of in the crucible

[slim girder]

I don't actually think there have been any actual permadeaths inside the crucible.
Shaxx is always watching and I'd like to assume that'd be the one instance he'd step in personally not to mention every other guardian in the match.

Even the shadows of yor playing around with thorn replicas while frowned upon wasn't killing anyone permanently.

[frigid sparrow]

Was thinking of Shayura but I checked and her permakills weren't in the crucible (she did at least try though)

[slim girder]

Yeah she was definitely out for blood.

But again I feel like in the crucible if there was a threat of a guardian dying a true death shaxx would intervene himself as he's in charge of it.

It'd be like a sports tragedy if it were to happen during a match

[frigid sparrow]

In the lore where she almost kills a stasis user it was Aisha who stopped her, I dunno how close shaxx is to the actual events

(physically speaking)

[slim girder]

I don't see why he wouldn't be watching and we have transmats ready pretty much all the time so I don't think there's anything stopping him from going over there should he be needed.

But he trusts guardians to look after each other in the crucible.

A story that I think would be pretty cool if we wanted to throw some danger into the crucible would be jana 14 going on a rampage in disguise at a crucible match leading to a guardian response after she kills someone.

[frigid sparrow]

Give all the guardians in a match thorn but one of them is the real version

[honest snow]

Are there exos of other races, like cabal or elixsni

[blazing wasp]

they are mindscans of humans

one is a mindscan of a eliksni

atraks

but every other exo was once a human

[trim grotto]

Only Atraks-1. And Felwinter, who was an AI.

[honest snow]

Who's atraks-1

[trim grotto]

Eliksni Exo. Used to be a member of Eramis's council.

[honest snow]

Oh, thank you

[eager trout]

He is always close. Always watching. When you're hiding around the corner, he's right behind you. When you respawn, he's right behind you. When you're getting disintegrated by a Prismatic Hunter dodging and activating everything at the same time, Shaxx. Is. There.

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-destiny2-shaxx-lord-shaxx-crucible-gif-15526551

[ember storm]

Well he actually has nothing to do with trials so

He probably wouldn’t have been watching at all

[slim girder]

Do saint and shaxx talk much? Iirc there's a saying somewhere that the energy between the 2 of them is enough to shake a room apart or something..

[ember storm]

If they’re hanging out sure

Their work lives don’t interact at all though

[slim girder]

The only time I recall saint and shaxx talking was back when we were getting devils ruin and shaxx was singing about the moon being made of cheese.

Saint was asking about redrix and luna when talking about their respective crucible weapons.

[regal palm]

Wasn’t Taniks also an exo?

[trim grotto]

No.

Just rebuilt again.

[regal palm]

Ah

I see

[somber pendant]

oh

ok

[somber pendant]

so because of the terraforming, humanity came together and all agreed to divert resources towards tech?

[jagged badge]

Even before humanity made first contact with the Traveler, its arrival spurred on international cooperation on the mission to go to it

The Ares One mission (the astronauts you see in the opening cutscene of the game) was a joint effort by the US, China and Russia

[somber pendant]

oh cool 😁

wish that was considered realistic 🙏

[honest snow]

Are their any cozy or wholesome lore entries (as in the topics of them are relaxed or chill or its.just a relaxing read)

[eager trout]

Literally

[ember storm]

doghives

[honest snow]

Im skeptical mainly because ik how fucked up the hive are and hive being in the name makes me worried

[ember storm]

oh it's nothing related to hive don't worry

it's just a good old fashioned golden age custom

fun for the whole family

everyone wants one

[fast tapir]

why do you do this

[ember storm]

everyone loves doghives

[honest snow]

Are movies and film still a thing or does everyone just stream crucible

[next bobcat]

I love doghives

[dim minnow]

as far as we know, there is little lore on such things

the lore tab for the Two Tailed Fox implies there could be something like an anime show

though our Ghost's dialogue on the arcade in Neomuna does show how limited the Last City is in terms of different forms of media

the Last City does not have arcades

Neomuna though, they probably have all that stuff if they have arcades

they do have Capybara Corner (literal propaganda spoonfed to kids)

[grave verge]

Guys, osiris and são 14, they are gay?

[dim minnow]

yes

[jagged badge]

@ember storm THE GIF

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2gay-kiss-gif-27172921

I have been called

[grave verge]

I cant imagine a exo having relationships 💀 even eith other exos

[jagged badge]

I mean, Exos are humans so

[lost abyss]

Misraaks may pay for the birds reunion. The price of gay is heavy :(

[jagged badge]

They are human minds, just in different bodies. It makes total sense that they still socially interact the exact same way

[ember storm]

He sacrificed his health for old man yaoi, a true Kell of the people

[lost abyss]

One worthy of the books

[ember storm]

An exo is essentially just a full body prosthetic for a mind

They’re not a facsimile of a person

[jagged badge]

And it also makes sense that in a futuristic society where Exos are common place as citizens and stuff, people would fall in love with them regardless of the body

[ember storm]

They’re not limited in the capacity to feel or requite love

And they have lips to smooch

[jagged badge]

Is a facsimile its archetype? No. I am Maya Sundaresh

[ember storm]

AN EMOTIONAL RESPONSE

[dim minnow]

I wonder how many people consider exos better

[jagged badge]

Maya Sundaresh the actual fucking Redditor

[dim minnow]

"erm, what do you mean commandign everyone with my Radiolaria is cringe?"
"downvoted"

[grave verge]

Wait what?

[jagged badge]

Clovis Bray developed the Exo program first and foremost as a means of self preservation and immortality

Exo bodies house human mind scans

[wheat flower]

Good ole clovis

[grave verge]

Ooohu yeah

[wheat flower]

Sad to see him demonised

[jagged badge]

[wheat flower]

In my very controversial opinion

He was a good guy

Sure he might've built a vex portal

But in all honesty he did it for the right reasons

Is it not the thought that counts?

[dim minnow]

you know, the ironic part about that is that he actually did try to turn himself around at the end in the form of Clovis-1

if you read the Lament lore tab

[wheat flower]

Is his big head still active on europa?

[jagged badge]

He hasn’t been relevant for a while, but nothing’s happened to him

[wheat flower]

See h3 can tell us how to make siva

Give us the krabby patty recipe even

[jagged badge]

Clovis didn’t invent SIVA

[jagged badge]

Last thing that happened was when Ana purged the partitioned Clovis AI from the H.E.L.M in Seraph and we discovered he sent an encrypted message to the Europa AI. All we managed to decrypt was “they know”

This was after Rasputin detailed how Clovis had planned to use him to destroy the Traveler

[dim minnow]

also to add on what Eris said, SIVA was more Willa Bray's project

[devout nimbus]

The steam screenshots lmao

[honest snow]

Can guardians have children

[jagged badge]

Unknown but the answer is believed to be no

Zavala adopted a child with his partner Safiyah. And there’s a line where it’s referenced that Saladin is unable to have children

That on top of the fact there are 0 examples of Guardians having children can lead to the implication that they are all unable to

Ofc, this could change/be proven wrong whenever

[honest snow]

Thank you

[ember storm]

The thought was to actively keep the portal open even when vex were actively invading and killing all the colonists

So I don’t really think it does

Also he’s a sexist

[regal palm]

I mean, opening a vex portal that killed most of the population of Europa, torturing people, attempting to destroy the traveler. Yeah he’s not great. Definitely not a good guy

[somber pendant]

did micah10 transition before becoming an exo or after? if after, how does that work?

[trim grotto]

Before.

File: [index number corrupt] 

Age: 17, Gender: F, Height: 167 cm, Weight: 54 kg, Class: A6 (Resident) ```

[ruby pivot]

and isnt it he have a god complex?

video game chars tend to have those are insane

[slim girder]

Yes. He has a god complex. If we didn't figure out what he was doing during season of the seraph it would have been very bad.

[honest snow]

Are there zombie like light bearers, like empty husks of past guardians that act like zombies

[little gorge]

did he do all the unethical human experiments for the right reason?

[blazing wasp]

No

A guardian cannot fully die and retain their light

It's not possible

Additionally reanimation hasn't really been done on humans or such

[honest snow]

Thank you

[slim girder]

It has been done before. The Siva replication chamber in RoI. The revenants were reanimated corpses of iron lords. Obviously though they had lost their light.

[blazing wasp]

Not really reanimation like Zombies

More like puppeteering

You dont reanimate a doll by attaching strings to it

[slim girder]

They pretty much are zombies though. Dead humans brought back to life by an outside force. Even if it might have been Siva trying to protect itself using them.
It's been done in lots of other media where a zombie horde is being commanded by something.

[blazing wasp]

They're not alive, they're operated by Siva, not in the reanimation sense

In the puppet on a string sense

Siva didn't control their muscles, it just moved inside the arms

Lest you consider sock puppets reanimation

Wait is that reanimation

Hangon

[slim girder]

One of them spoke though. Obviously that could have just been a memory or echo of something but hearing "no i have to" before a revenant appeared makes me think that they still had some life in them.

[blazing wasp]

Huh, I didn't know that, gimme a sec

The dialogue came from felwinters corpse, so it could be playback

Additionally the Siva is uh
It goes through their brains

[fast tapir]

i thought ghost said siva was "using their armor"

[blazing wasp]

They can't be reanimated because they lack the systems to reanimate

[slim girder]

It was a womans voice. My guess is jolder since she was of note in the story as the one who sealed the exit and whose helmet we found.

[blazing wasp]

Which is weird because

A: the actual sound comes from what spawns as felwinter
B: jolders vocal cords and brain is pierced

Theres not actually anything physical to reanimate for Siva within the humans

[ember storm]

The explanation ghost gives is that it’s “using their armor”

[slim girder]

There's definitely still a body present under the armour. It just looks bloated which is what happens as a body decomposes even if it might also be full of siva. Meaning the organs, muscles and skeleton would still be present.
The siva would essentially be acting like new muscles

[ember storm]

SIVA just fused their bodies to their weaponry and used it as an apparatus

The iron lords have been dead for like a thousand years now

Their bodies aren’t alive in any sense

[blazing wasp]

Animation =/= reanimation, they HAVE to be alive again

[ember storm]

It is literally just a corpse fused to machinery

[blazing wasp]

The brain is kinda gone to accompany this

[ember storm]

The machinery is what’s functioning

Nothing in the body is

like springtrap

[blazing wasp]

That's it we exclude natural decomposition

[slim girder]

That still doesn't explain why one speaks though. Also we have plenty of cases of guardians speaking when they're supposed to be dead.

[ember storm]

Because it’s not actually speaking

Jolder didn’t even say that sentence out loud

Siva is just fused with the bodies and relaying information

That includes the last cognitive thoughts the bodies had

They’re not alive

Siva is keeping the corpses intact to use as an apparatus

They’re not living in any sense

[slim girder]

Keeping a corpse intact would mean it's being kept alive to an extent. Like you're keeping the tissue living even if the person is truly gone. Basically the Frankenstein treatment of living body parts.

[ember storm]

Its preservation

They’re mummies

Not only does siva have an innate ability to consuming materials to enhance itself, the replication chamber was completely sealed away from the outside world

The point is that the tissue is not rotting in any way but the iron lords are very much dead at that point

There is nothing left to consider them zombies

It’s like those experimental combat suits in new vegas that are just logging around the skeletons of their owners

[slim girder]

That's probably the better way to describe it. Idk though in my view of it I saw this as reanimation of a corpse as a defence mechanism. Yes the actual person was dead but their body was repurposed and reanimated to keep Siva safe.

[ember storm]

Siva was already infecting the iron lords as they were alive

“Puppeting our armor and weapons against each other” is how Saladin described it

After the iron lords died the siva just completely overtook it

It wasn’t so much of a defense mechanism, rather just relaying the last commands that Rasputin gave it

There’s a distinct difference between it’s actions in the replication chamber compared to the rest of the cosmodrome

If it was following the splicer’s reprogramming, the bodies would’ve just been consumed entirely in favor of replicating more siva nanites

[somber pendant]

cool cool

[honest snow]

Are there any funny entries about people getting roasted.

[bright quarry]

Not a lore buff, but in regards to this I just recall the one line at the end of the Savathūn's Spire missions where Eris is explaining hive stuff and Immaru goes "Who died made you the know-it-all of throne worlds?" or something like that. Then Eris, without pausing for a second, no falter in her usual tone, just goes "Crota." and then that's the end of the dialog. I imagine Immaru was just like

There was also, in the same season, the time she called Immaru a cretin. Which, coming from anyone else is kinda whatever, but from Eris I interpret is pretty viscious.

[trim grotto]

She also hit him with a book once.

[tawdry wigeon]

Hey im a bit confused about 2 things from the final shape campaign. First who and what is the first knife? The witness kept mentioning they are the one. Also the darkness the witness was wielding was the true power of the darkness or is it something completely different with a completely different purpose of existence?

[ember storm]

It’s a concept

And the witness is arguably one of the strongest wielders of darkness we’ve seen but it’s not the original nor prime source

The Veil is the ultimate source of primordial darkness, the witness was only made possible because of it

[trim grotto]

The First Knife is a reference to Unveiling. In a creationist setting, the First Knife was the first weapon. That which began to cull the weak.

It is, as Waltz says, a concept.

[ember storm]

Essentially the witness is proclaiming itself to be the very edge that defines existence for the rest of the universe

“We carved purpose into being” and all that

[trim grotto]

Like a more severe form of Sword Logic.

[ember storm]

Hive swords don’t look sharp at all so I get it

They just hit you with clubs

[tawdry wigeon]

Ahhh i see hmmmmm

So in the future we might see an even stronger darkness user who could be well ig not an enemy

The darkness is as evil as the witness made it to seem like or is it just existing ig?

[ember storm]

Every negative interaction we’ve had with darkness has been because of those wielding it which all traces back to the witness

[trim grotto]

Darkness, like Light, is a neutral force. That which wields it, shapes it.

It is still dangerous, and the Veil is a relatively unknown force, but Darkness itself isn't a hateful, aggressive force.

[tawdry wigeon]

Ohhh got it got it okayyy

What about the aurora at the end?

Is that foreshadowing something?

[trim grotto]

Spilling out of the Traveler? We're still learning about that. It's been put under a no-fly zone for most folks.

[ember storm]

The aurora wasn’t the important part in the short term

The thing we’re suffering from right now is all the echoes that spilled out of the traveler when the witness died

[tawdry wigeon]

Echoes are like memories or something?

[trim grotto]

In a way. Like... memories of the Witness combined with power that takes on a relevant form. Kind of hard to explain

[ember storm]

Echoes are the physical artifacts made of light and darkness that allowed Maya to subjugate an entire planetoid and all the vex on it, and what’s allowing Fikrul to remote transform living Eliksni into scorn

Xivu will probably slap hers onto her a big sword

[bright quarry]

That would be so sick

[tawdry wigeon]

Ahhh im kind of getting yea

So the 3 things flying out were echoes

Got it

[tawdry wigeon]

What does crow mean when he says they were made in conflict?

[eager trout]

Probably because they came from the Traveler after the Witness was destroyed, so they're a product of the final battle with the Witness

[trim grotto]

Depends. The Echoes or the Awoken? If the former, refer to Eevee's answer.

[eager trout]

Since the first Echo gave us (presumably) independent Vex, the second one gave us living Scorn, the third one should give us...what?

[blazing wasp]

speaking of hive

do we know if the hive have muscles

[eager trout]

I saw someone called OniiChan, Kell of UwU

And another one I don't remember right now

[eager trout]

Well, they're insects. Refer to insect biology.

[blazing wasp]

but... some insects have muscles, some dont

[tawdry wigeon]

Oh i mean awoken

Sorry forgot to add that in

[eager trout]

Well, considering the way Hive fall apart, they probably don't even have bones

[jagged badge]

The Awoken were born from the clash of Light and Dark during the Collapse

[tawdry wigeon]

Ohhhhhh okay damn im missing basic pieces of info

[trim grotto]

The Marasenna lore book (you can find it on the Ishtar Collective) has the story, but the short answer is that a Golden Age colony ship was caught in a massive blast of Light combating Dark, and the resultant energy formed a singularity with a pocket universe. The colonists crashed into it, were physically reformed into Awoken, and later a faction of them - led by Mara Sov, who they later elected as their Queen - split off from the group and left this pocket universe to rejoin the greater universe and help balance it.

I skipped over a lot of details on that one, haha, but it gets the concept across

[tawdry wigeon]

Yeap it's perfect

The ones left behind are where? The ascendant plane?

Sorry meant dreaming city

[ember storm]

No, the ascendant is like a different layer to reality

[trim grotto]

The pocket universe became known as the Distributary. They remain there still; and leaving it was a one way trip.
Within it, time flows faster, the Awoken were immortal, and at peace. By now, in the ages since the Dark Age, the Distributary may have advanced thousands or even millions of years.

The Dreaming City, while it is hidden, simply rests upon 4-Vesta of the asteroid belt of Sol.

[tawdry wigeon]

Oh damn

I wish in the future we could go there but i highly doubt it

[trim grotto]

As I said, one way trip. Nobody knows where the pinprick, perhaps microscopic entrance lies in the void of space, and even if one were to find it, we'd have no way of passing through.

[tawdry wigeon]

Yea i know

Thats why i said highly doubt it

[ember storm]

I mean I’m not sure what there would really be to it

You’d have to come up with a reason for it and then have that reason not be derivative of both the DC and Neomuna’s current situation

It would just be a bunch of awoken people living in a place

[trim grotto]

It would also mean that either time would equalise or we'd spend hundreds of years in there per mission
Real Interstellar vibes

[tawdry wigeon]

Well idk what they will do in the future apollo doesn't really say much unfortunately and in all honesty idk where they could even go and explore in the future and with what initiative

[trim grotto]

Who knows
Xûr's colony? Efrideet's colony? An ECHO or Exodus colony that made it? That one colony in that one star system that I am too lazy to check the name of?
Torobatl? Riis? Something entirely new? So on.

[tawdry wigeon]

Oh damn

[ember storm]

Chicago

[tawdry wigeon]

So many options?

Lmao

[trim grotto]

Chicago is unironically also an option

Some weird shenanigans go on in Chicago

[tawdry wigeon]

I wish i could go back to io ngl or even venus

Titan

Ugh

Loved those places

[trim grotto]

Venus and Titan we could, Venus never left and Titan was returned
But Io is still missing

As is Mercury

[ember storm]

If only that useless sack of meat told us how to work the planet controls

Oh well

[tawdry wigeon]

Itll probably be an entirely new system

Thats what i imagine

Idk at least give us a small ride to feel the nostalgia

I would personally feel hella nostalgic if i could go back to those places

Like i did with titan somewhat recently

Btw

When they left where could have they gone?

[ember storm]

Well that’s the thing about their disappearance, the witness took them

Capital T meaning it’s the same power used to create the Taken

So it’s not like they’re just somewhere else in the universe

For all intents and purposes they’re gone, but things like their gravity is still right where it out to be?

Like Phobos, Mars’ moon, was completely fine and orbited like nothing happened at all

[tawdry wigeon]

First, whats the power that created the taken, second so they might not even be in this space but in a possible pocket one?

[ember storm]

The black and white blight goo is that power

The witness used that same power on entire planets and moons instead of just people

[tawdry wigeon]

Ohhh thats weird asf

So the planets became taken like? Idk im really lost sorry

[trim grotto]

At the end of Season of Arrivals, the planets (and moons) were Taken. Literally moved to some other place, probably the Ascendant Plane. In their place lies gravitational anomalies, pits of Darkness of the same size and gravitational hold.
When the Witness Took them, it began dissecting their timelines. You can see this unfinished attempt on Mars with the Witch Queen DLC. Titan was completed, which is why it remains whole.

Savathûn returned Mars, and we're not entirely sure why Titan returned - we think due to Macrocosm.

Io and Mercury remain missing.

[somber pendant]

lore question what happens to our ship when we're not in it

[blazing wasp]

i mean, thats not well explained so we probably just.... park it?

maybe it has some autopiloting, or ghost can interface with it from afar

[ember storm]

Just sits waiting in orbit?

[somber pendant]

damn

i mean

it has infinite power right

because of ummmm... the light i guess

[blazing wasp]

we dont know

[somber pendant]

😭

[blazing wasp]

probably just uses regular fuel

[somber pendant]

same goes for sparrows i assume

[blazing wasp]

which can be produced using glimmer

so we dont really have a shortage of fuel for ships or sparrows.

[somber pendant]

cool

very interesting

lore wise how come thrail have glimmer

scratch that, what is glimmer?

[blazing wasp]

programmable matter

[somber pendant]

oh woahh

whered it come from

[blazing wasp]

we did something to find a way to make it in the golden age

we also invented engrams during the golden age

[somber pendant]

wait engrams are also programmable matter right

[blazing wasp]

no

[somber pendant]

what are they then

[blazing wasp]

basically a encrypted piece of physical matter

[somber pendant]

"google is your friend" bros HATE to see me coming

[blazing wasp]

isnt always physical matter but

[blazing wasp]

tbf google would tell you to go to destinypedia which is just wrong usually

[somber pendant]

i wonder if chatgpt could tell me

[somber pendant]

that means it was programmed right

to be encrypted

[blazing wasp]

dunno

[somber pendant]

😛

thank you!

[jagged badge]

Don’t

[somber pendant]

?

[blazing wasp]

chat gpt is good at some things, explaining d2 is not among them

[jagged badge]

I think frivolous usage of AI shit shouldn’t be encouraged anyways for multiple reasons

All it will do in this case is give a potentially inaccurate summary of information you could get from actual sources/people who know what they’re talking about

[tawdry wigeon]

Got it everything seems more clear now. Just one last question. Whats macrocosm in the game not in general

[trim grotto]

The planets encounter of the Root of Nightmares raid

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/glimmer
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/transcripts/ghost-scan-core-terminus-mars-2
Glimmer and Engrams respectively

I'm at work so I can't explain in detail personally but these will do well

[ember storm]

Basically there’s no particular reason all enemies we fight spit it up like blood when we kill them

Sometimes gameplay effects are referenced in lore but not always

[tawdry wigeon]

Oh man i didn't know raid encounters from raids were also canon

The destiny universe is huge man wth and the apollo it'll only get bigger

God

Damn

So most of the raid encounters have some lore behind them

Thats crazy

[heady monolith]

does xivu still have access to her powers despite her connection to her throne world is severed?

[ember storm]

Basic hive magic and her natural powers yes

Those are disconnected from having a throne world

Savathun was still able to use all her illusion magic and spells after being disconnected from hers

[dim minnow]

finally finished the new Tales of the Forgotten and read through it

I must say, it is peak

definitely an improvement over the terrible one we got last year

[sick yew]

Hmmm

I read a handful of pages of it earlier last week

Mainly the Glint one

[dim minnow]

it gets good

real good

[sick yew]

hmmm

Maybe ill read it later

[dim minnow]

wait, how did you read it last week?

we're still in the first week

[sick yew]

What

[dim minnow]

yeah, it's still the first week of the event

[sick yew]

It is???

[dim minnow]

for me, it's Sunday

almost Monday

[sick yew]

Oh

Its 7:30am for me lmfao

[dim minnow]

anyways, read Tales of the FOrgotten volume 4

probably the best one so far

[sick yew]

Im just waiting for Most Loyal 2

Surely its happening this season

It has to

I need it

[dim minnow]

Ghost Community Theater Presents 2

[sick yew]

[dim minnow]

to be fair, isn't the highest bar to fill since 2 wasn't the greatest while 3 was just bad

2 at least had decent stuff

and 1 was pretty good

I like how Mithrax calls someone an idiot in the first two

[sick yew]

Mithrax was in the first one?

[dim minnow]

yeah

Glint was investigating the Headless Ones and Mithrax knew of someone who claimed to see one

though Mithrax warned him that he was...