📚lore-discussion

[oak oxide]

The fact that there isn't an exotic for that is surprising

[slim girder]

It would be broken and i know we do have golden gun in a weapon now but I don't think bungie wants much passing supers among classes.

[dim minnow]

the hook that Cloudstrike was made with was used by a Guardian to catch Arc energy from clouds and hurl them at enemies

[oak oxide]

That's dope

[dim minnow]

the Light can also be used to protect your brain in case the Nine ever try to boil it

[oak oxide]

I know a sequel game is out of the question but I would love to see a more flexible use of the light and the subsequent schools of thought attached to it

[dim minnow]

Destiny Rising does kind of show this

each character will have unique abilities

like that one girl with the void scythe

[oak oxide]

Why and how did the classes come to be anyways?

[dim minnow]

the class system isn't exactly specified too much'

there's implication that the weren't really a thing in the Dark Age

[oak oxide]

If the light is only limited by your skills and imagination why box it into categories?

[dim minnow]

but it seems like they are really tied to key disciplines

Hunters are those who venture through the wilds and are cunning

[oak oxide]

Because game?

[dim minnow]

Titans are the walls that keep the city safe with great strength

[jagged badge]

Think of it like martial arts. Easier to learn tried and tested forms of wielding the Light

And then also consider the average Guardian is still learning one subclass still

[dim minnow]

and Warlocks unlock the secrets of the world with their keen mind

[oak oxide]

Are there individuals similar to the drifter in the lore who don't have a specific class tied to them?

[jagged badge]

None that come to mind tbh

Off the top of my head at 2am anyway haha

[oak oxide]

Go to bed m8

[dim minnow]

Drifter is the only know rogue still around

[oak oxide]

Shame honestly

I understand the drifters apprehension to the light but I also admire his free spirited nature in regards to his personality and not being tied down by specific doctrine. This might be a very superficial observation but it's what I've gleaned personally.

I want to see more characters like that

Also gambit has a special place in my heart

[warm acorn]

So what’s the Byf video on vespers host about

[dim minnow]

Vesper's Host most likely

[warm acorn]

…

[eager trout]

I was gonna say the same thing

[trim grotto]

Most of the regulars here don't watch Byf.

If you wanna know, gotta watch.

[warm acorn]

Why is that

[trim grotto]

Some folks learn it themselves and form their own opinions. Some folks work it out in conversation here, or come here to learn it in a back and forth discussion. Some folks have personal reasons. Depends on who you're asking.

[slim girder]

Just theories on the dungeon and a breakdown of how everything unfolds

[dim minnow]

yeah, so Vesper's Host

[slim girder]

It's a good watch even if you've done the dungeon. I learnt a couple new things that i completely missed while running it.

[proven frigate]

i need to read more up about lisbon

seems like he has a deep story about him even though we havent seen him at all

[sudden sinew]

isn’t that some kind of city

[trim grotto]

Sure, yeah. There are many background characters with interesting stories.

[dim minnow]

let's see, goes into the Black Garden with his friends, they obtain an unspecified power (maybe Stasis) and end up fighting each other with Lisbon winning. Then Lisbon tries to kill his own Ghost only to encounter the Witness who erases his memory and remives his Ghost's ability to speak.

[proven frigate]

might be but in destiny, you get hints in garden salvation weaponary about lisbon

[proven frigate]

and if im not wrong proceeds to hunt gaurdians for the ghosts

[dim minnow]

then lisbon is found by the Vanguard and he joins the Hidden where he investigates Savathun's Altar of Reflection where he finds out about what happened in the Black Garden.

[dim minnow]

wrong guy

you're thinking of Cyrell

[proven frigate]

never heard of him anywhere where i can read up about them both

[dim minnow]

then he continues his work with the Hidden where he is part of the fireteam that recover's Oryx's body from the depths of Titan

[dim minnow]

let's see, Lisbon's lore can be found in the lore tabs for:
Garden of Salvation armor (the pieces in each set tell the same events from each fireteam member's perspective)
Divinity lore tab
Never Live it Down lore tab
Legacy's Oath Plate (Deep Stone Crypt armor lore tab)
Mnemosyne (Altars of Reflection lore book)
Dark Glass (from the lore book Inspiral)
Ghosts of the Deep armor lore tabs

at least all the pieces I can remember

Cyrell does not have much

about 2 lore entries total

and one of him only birefly mentions him

[proven frigate]

awesome thanks ill look it up

[dim minnow]

for Cyrell, look Ghost Hunter and Protector of Ghosts from Ghost Stories

[proven frigate]

thanks

[lost abyss]

If the story ever focuses on Humanity's Lightbearers as antagonists, Cyrell would be a good start. Micah-10 is an officially casted character, so she'd be a perfect lead for a plot like that.

[next bobcat]

How else would you personally go about this? I’m thinking some unaligned cabal/eliksni who get targeted by some guardians who still think of them as mindless enemy aliens.

[ember storm]

i mean

"unaligned" are still enemies

dusk and red legion renmants are criminals and outlaws

[next bobcat]

But more just kind of stragglers who’ll fight to protect themselves but don’t want any overt conflict

But have to hold off and sometimes run from these light bearers

[lost abyss]

You can do a lot, we haven't had this really be a plot point before. Closest we have is probably the infected Iron Lords from Rise of Iron. That was mostly a Human adjacent issue, as Rasputin was the necessary cause for it, besides the Devil Splicers.

Jana-14 is another established Lightbearer available as an antagonist. She has a similar theme to Yor, with Hive corruption being her plot.

[next bobcat]

Also i just wanted to say that name is genius

[ember storm]

its not really corruption she's just genuinely deranged

she had just as much contact with thorn as anyone else on the team but still made gauntlets of human skin on her free time

[next bobcat]

Oh that one

[lost abyss]

Ah, right. It's been a while since I've looked over Jana's story.

Still a good candidate, however.

[ember storm]

i mean the issue with any human antagonist

see crucible

[next bobcat]

Apparently she fed people to osteo striga?

[ember storm]

that's how long it would last

the only reason Uldren lasted long was literally having a scorn army at his disposal

the moment we caught up he got executed

[ember storm]

she killed people with it via disembowling

hence delusion

it's just pure madness

it's not anything like yor or even gahlran faced

[next bobcat]

But like imagine savathûn gave her more hive stuff and we had to get Eris hive god back and it’s like an epic hive god battle that would be awesome

[ember storm]

i dont

what

[lost abyss]

Yes, this was a point I was about to make actually. The biggest issue you run into is the fact that every antagonist tends to have some kind of large force backing them.

[ember storm]

yeah, like imagine Cyrell

he's literally just a guy

we shoot him and he's dead because his ghost long since abandoned him

[lost abyss]

Even Maya now, has access to a compelled Vex collective.

[ember storm]

and also yknow the power of an echo

a literal piece of the witness

[lost abyss]

Mhm

[next bobcat]

Would I be wrong to say it gives them power near that of a disciple?

[ember storm]

"disciple" is not a stage of power

it's a title

each disciple had wildly different power and abilities

the standard was not being super strong

the standard was having something specific the witness could exploit

[blazing wasp]

calus was a wet wipe
rhulk only lost because he didnt give a shit until he was on deaths door

[ember storm]

and that was actually incredibly valuable

like calus brought along an entire army, including psions and their immense knowledge + genetic engineering tech

[lost abyss]

You kind of have to write them as a threat. Jana having a brood of Hive, if a similar situation as Hiraks occured, or since Echoes are the new recurring narrative tools, if you really wanted, you could give Jana or Cyrell access to an Echo.

Although, we already have Maya as a human antagonist with an Echo. So, you'd have to be careful retreading ground. I think Jana, and Cyrell are different enough though

[next bobcat]

Speaking of which, do you think Xivu is going to get the echo and be super powerful, Taox somehow gets the echo and we have to somehow work with savathun and xivu to stop her, or… we get the echo?

[lost abyss]

Honestly, because we don't know how many Echoes there actually are iirc. The possibilities in the story are pretty endless, at the moment. We might end up dealing with Echoes past Episode 3, although I doubt it'll be frequent after that, other than whenever Maya is involved again. Fikrul too, depending on how Revenant goes.

[lost abyss]

Heresy is a Hive focused Episode, so it's possible.

Taox though

Not sure if she's even still around

It would be interesting to explain how she is still alive

[next bobcat]

If there’s ever a place to tie up her story

It’s heresy

[ember storm]

wrong, return of nokris

[next bobcat]

You freaking-

On that topic, taniks is properly dead-dead, wiped out, no life left, blown to pieces, yeah?

I can’t help thinking fikrul is going to bring him back as the boss of the exotic mission

[lost abyss]

I'm still pretty miffed on how little he really mattered in the story. Became a lackey for his Aunt, and died. The only thing that came from him was probably Ghost's of the Deep having Savathûn's Lucents attempting the resurrection of Oryx.

[ember storm]

pretty sure we decapitated him so

[next bobcat]

Cite your sources

[lost abyss]

If he ever does return, they would do well to explain how his head was stolen from Elsie's watch at Europa's camp.

[ember storm]

his head is the trophy in the europa camp

we claim something from each council member

[next bobcat]

Oh ok

[ember storm]

taniks is literally his head

[next bobcat]

Knowing taniks he doesn’t need a head to survive

Make him a scorn abomination

Or, have a cinematic where the head turns into a little screeb thing and runs back towards the remains his body

After the fikrul thing

[lost abyss]

He was in the Deep Stone Crypt with Atraks-1, she could've been in the process of scanning him, but the fireteam likely arrived too early, since scans kill the original sample upon completion iirc.

[next bobcat]

I’m sorry I don’t really understand what you’re saying here can you explain like I’m 8

[lost abyss]

Was suggesting that he could have had an incomplete scan of his brain in the Deep Stone Crypt, which would mean a Taniks-1 Exo is possible. I doubt that's the case though, since during the raid Atraks-1 could've been doing something else entirely while he was in the pod.

Also, brain scans to become an Exo are in-fact, fatal.
For reasons of fidelity, the only perfect and lossless brain scan is also a destructive one.

[ember storm]

his cyborg body was just retrofitted with better tech

you can tell his limbs are completely different

[lost abyss]

Yeah, that makes much more sense, thank you.

[ember storm]

taniks wasnt part of the ultimate exo stasis army goal

[next bobcat]

Oh thanks that makes sense

[finite pendant]

Could someone like, explain to me who/what exactly is “the traveler”

[slim girder]

It's a being of light that is capable of terraforming planets on a molecular level.
It's also capable of speech to a small extent which can only be heard by people who are called speakers, but they were also called dreamers. Or in the case of the pale heart that whale call noise is the traveler calling out.

[finite pendant]

I see, so there is no origin story of the traveler?

Like i know the witness is just like, something that came out of hatred. Atleast thats my understanding of it, i could be wrong there too

[jagged badge]

The earliest known information is that the Witness’ people found it buried on their homeworld

[slim girder]

No. We just saw it on mars and with the witnesses civilisation it was sitting on their planet

No idea where it actually came from

[finite pendant]

I see, okay

Im trying to like get an understanding of the entire story so i can appreciate the game more, but damn everything is so hard

And there arent any videos or resources online that explain it well

[slim girder]

The witness came from a civilisation removing all doubts from themselves and becoming a being with a single unbreakable will and a drive to enforce purpose on the universe. Not capable of thinking that others didn't want that.

[finite pendant]

Yeah the precursors or whatever right?

[slim girder]

The traveler is still a big enigma so don't feel bad. We just haven't had any kind of lore talking about its origins.

[slim girder]

Yes

[finite pendant]

I see, fair enough, i get that. Some things left for speculation can also be good to an extent

[slim girder]

That's correct.

Adds to the mystery

[finite pendant]

Confusing asf to someone new to it tho, especially when there’s already so much of the story fragmented in the game

[slim girder]

Aside from the final shape the traveler does take a backseat to the main plot usually. It's more about us on the ground and the other enemies we face.

[finite pendant]

Im still trying to understand all the stuff about oryx

And like the events before

[slim girder]

What do you want to know?

[finite pendant]

Well, mostly just clarity i suppose, what are the leviathans and stuff and how do they play a role, and how oryx savathun and the other dude idek

They all came to be

The hive stuff

[slim girder]

It's a very long story but if I had to summarise it as short as possible the hive were originally a race called the krill. Oryx, savathun and xivu arath known by other names at the time were daughters to a king. After their father died his worm familiar whispered to savathun saying that a great calamity was coming and told them to dive into the deep which is where the Leviathan tried to stop them from finding the worm gods.

[jagged badge]

Well, we saw it entering our Solar System and monitored it until we launched a mission to intercept it on Mars

[jagged badge]

The Books of Sorrow deal with the Hive siblings’ origin

Do you know the site Ishtar Collective?

[slim girder]

@finite pendant you'd like some sources of information my name is byf, myelin games and evaze can give you a pretty good run down of the lore. It's good binge material imo.
Otherwise we'd be here for probably years

[jagged badge]

Really handy for reading lore stuff

[slim girder]

Ishtar collective and destinypedia are also very good sources of lore

[finite pendant]

I do not

[slim girder]

If you prefer to read it all instead of listening

[jagged badge]

Eh on Destinypedia

But Ishtar Collective absolutely

[slim girder]

Yeah I know but it's helped me in some spots.
Def Ishtar collective though

[finite pendant]

Oh i stumbled upon the video from the byf person, its like 10 hours tho

[slim girder]

If you're up for it that'll definitely cover everything you need to know

[jagged badge]

Honestly I’ve rarely ever watched Byf myself

[slim girder]

Even though I know the lore well myself I do like his take on things. Like his vespers host video showed me a couple things I missed in the dungeon

[finite pendant]

Ill have to watch it in bits cuz like, my attention span is as limited as can be

I zone out so quick lmao

[slim girder]

Yeah I did the same

But again it'll definitely catch you up and tell you everything

[finite pendant]

Yeah ill check it out tho, story seems interesting

Havent been exploring much lore since elden ring, so this is kind of exciting

[slim girder]

Destiny is a huge universe. Countless stories to go through.

[finite pendant]

Yeah that should be fun

[brittle dirge]

I think dregen yor is such a cool character and should’ve been further talked about

[tawdry mauve]

theres not much more to talk about tbh

evil guardians™️ is such a bland concept imo

[brittle dirge]

We got like at most a few stories about them

And the ones in the dark future weren’t expanded upon at all

[dim minnow]

Dredgen Yor's story (and the story of the Shaodws of Yor) are pretty much done

[brittle dirge]

Yeah but like

I just wanted more stories of evil guardians

He is done, I mean he’s dead so

[dim minnow]

we still got Jana-14 running around I think

Red Death Reformed did conclude the story of the guy who created Red Death and Crimson

[brittle dirge]

I thought she died

[dim minnow]

I think she's still at large

she's the creator of Necrotic Grip and Osteo Striga by the way

and she should not have had access to the OG Thorn by the way

I still stand by this

[brittle dirge]

I know

[brittle dirge]

I also agree with this

I thought the lore entries were terrifying the first time I read them

[dim minnow]

I've held this jagged weapon since that faithful day on Dwindler's Ridge. Kept it hidden away. Kept its secrets, kept its nightmares locked away where none could hear—none could be tempted. It's quiet now, except a low murmur, but its sickness remains. There were countless times I thought to destroy it—remove its threat from the playing field. But I knew it held a greater purpose, and I believe that purpose can be found and fulfilled in your hands.

[dim minnow]

Shin himself said that he kept it hidden away the entire time

[brittle dirge]

Like imagine you’re a researcher and one of your co-workers is shooting people including you to study their decaying dying bodies

And you just have to sit there and let it happen

[slim girder]

It's not about study anymore. Osteo striga is Jana's child so it's all about feeding it. The weapon has turned her into more of a serial killer.

[brittle dirge]

Before back when she was researching thorn

But now… yes

[slim girder]

I don't think the others knew it was her. The "accidental" discharge was definitely her covering it up.

[ember storm]

I think the moment she decided to take a sample of her dead coworker’s skin “for his memory” was a sign stuff was going downhill

Also she turned them into a pair of gloves

[brittle dirge]

Good old necrotic grips

I always thought it was funny that non lore readers use these guns without knowing the real fucking dark past from it

[slim girder]

Weapons of sorrow are my favourite parts of lore. I hope more turn up at some point.

We have 5 so far.

[brittle dirge]

Only 5 isn’t a lot tbh

Still more than the amount of SIVA guns we have in d2

[slim girder]

Sivas story is truly finished.

[brittle dirge]

Yes

It is

But we still had like 8 SIVA guns in d1

When we get greater than or equal to the amount of sorrow guns in d2 I’ll be happy

Speaking of SIVA and sorrow

Destiny has had a lot of horror chances in the lore

But they never use the horror lore

[slim girder]

Because there was a reason for it.
In D2 there is no reason for Siva to be in the game so I think I can say with 100% certainty that they aren't coming back.

Closest we'll get is ornaments and stuff

[brittle dirge]

Im not saying they should come back

Im saying we should have a similar amount of sorrow guns due to it having so much lore

A similar amount to SIVA

[slim girder]

Well all weapons of sorrow are exotics. And siva only had 1 true Siva weapon with outbreak

The rest were basically just weapons with siva gunk on them but not capable of anything crazy

[brittle dirge]

Does lumina count as a weapon of sorrow if it used to be thorn

[slim girder]

It's called a weapon of hope

The opposite to the weapons of sorrow

[brittle dirge]

Which makes sense as yor used to be the guardian of hope

[slim girder]

If we got more weapons like lumina to go along with the weapons of sorrow I think that would be pretty cool.

[ruby pivot]

can someone give me a lore explanation why siva cant be used as a subclass? i kept saying that siva is man made, i explained that our powers are the "forces of nature/paracausal "

[brittle dirge]

We have assembler for lumina in terms of armor ig

[slim girder]

It's not a paracausal force.

It's as simple as that really

Nothing to do with light or dark.

[brittle dirge]

What Phoenix said, it’s just a braytech construction nanite technology made by Rasputin

[ruby pivot]

i know i just played d2 and he played from d1 to d2, but i doubt something man made can be used as a subclass sure we can shape void constructs into shield or axe but siva is man made and never part of any force or nature

i mean the resources created to make siva is from nature like gold or metal but they are not in any form has the semblance of a paracausal force

[ruby pivot]

thats what i have been saying

would be fine if its a siva weapon i would agree

but not a subclass

[slim girder]

Exactly. And it's also been destroyed. It's just a nanite tech and if we're really going with the siva subclass argument why don't we have a speed metal subclass since that's the better version of siva?

[ruby pivot]

if its like a symbiote in marvel probably i would give that a pass

[ruby pivot]

metal benders

[slim girder]

But still the argument stands unless it's a paracausal force of some kind it can't be manipulated by guardians.

[ruby pivot]

yup

i mean i see the appeal of nanites as "subclass" but usually nanites are man made even you look at any form of media

[brittle dirge]

After we destroyed site 6, no more SIVA was made

Then we killed aksis and it disappeared comepley as there was no more SIVA at all

[ruby pivot]

if they are living biomechanical beings they ARE STILL NOT possible as a subclass

[dim minnow]

there was still Outbreak

[brittle dirge]

Yeah and we took it

[slim girder]

That was just Siva acting with a directive to protect itself

[brittle dirge]

We programmed it to be ours

And threw it in a vault

Until devils tried to steal it again

[ruby pivot]

hmm if we threw it in our vault

it could have enhanced our other guns

[slim girder]

Outbreak as the name suggests was put in the vault for safety

[ruby pivot]

i just assume siva likes to enhance things

[brittle dirge]

It had its own case occurring to zero hour and it being all alone

[ruby pivot]

or its directives

[brittle dirge]

It was obviously considered a high priority and dangerous weapon

[ruby pivot]

containment to preven them from infecting

what kind of material was the containment for it to reject being infected by siva then

[brittle dirge]

It does, that’s its point after Rasputin used it to eat the iron lords

They no longer built things, they CONSUMED AND REPLICATED THEM

[ruby pivot]

cuz thats a really good containment for something that infects

oh

[brittle dirge]

It looked like simple glass

But we also reprogrammed outbreak to work for US

As well as the new outbreak being made by ada in into the light being canonically in our hands now

So I guess the vanguard no longer cares

[ruby pivot]

or any weapons free by this point cuz of the war

isnt it crimson/red death's restriction has been released too because of the war against witness

[brittle dirge]

No

Judging by the lore entry for the new red death the vanguard still bans it

[ruby pivot]

oohh

i assumed wrong then

[slim girder]

Yes crimson and red death are still banned

They are told to be destroyed if seen

[ruby pivot]

riiiiiiight destroy

about that

[zenith bison]

Apparently ahamkara are self-aware according to lore from two warlock exotics?

[ruby pivot]

from what i remember too, they are

they know they are inside the game that also includes savathun and that uhhh drifter's gf turned into the nine's messenger or something and so far are the set of characters i know that aware they are in a game

if not all ahamkara probably most of them i assume

[dim minnow]

I actually do think that Ahamkara have a degree of Strand ability

not in the same realm as Stand subclasses

[zenith bison]

Iirc in the lore tab for a warlock helmet one talks to the player

[dim minnow]

more of a mental thing

[ruby pivot]

and oh oh right ahamkara's who are self aware craves to get out of their prison(the game itself) and they want you to make a wish for them to enter our world

[dim minnow]

like Ahamkara can connect to the wisher mentally to understand what they desire

[zenith bison]

Like genies?

[ruby pivot]

if i managed to interpret what i read back then correctly

monkey paw

[zenith bison]

Don’t genies also make wishes backfire in horrible ways

[ruby pivot]

but monkey paws are known to twist your wish outright

while genies wishes probably because you forgot to specify some things

[zenith bison]

Isn’t that kinda the same thing

[dim minnow]

Ahamkara tend to fill un inspecified parts as a way to mess with the wish

it's why the Wall of Wishes worked the way it did

[zenith bison]

Like genies

[ruby pivot]

genies are like computers where you code them in a specific way for them to do a task
while from what i understood, monkey paws twist your wish no matter what it is

so genies need you to say specific things so that they cant find a loophole to troll u, you can say i want 1 million in cash, one million of what?

what currency?

genie snaps and you probably got a 1 million [currency here but not what u want cuz u didnt specify]

[slim girder]

"I wish for lots of loot"
They'll give a box with no key.
"I wish for a golden statue"
They'll drop a statue on you.

[zenith bison]

Genies and monkey paws are really similar in that manner

It’d be funny if monkeys could use their own paws to grant wishes

[ruby pivot]

from what i know monkey paws twist your wishes because you defied the laws of consequences or something

[zenith bison]

Genies just do it for the love of the game

[ruby pivot]

or a malevolent figure really really didnt like your wish of screwing things up

or the figure loves your torment and feeds on it(or for fun)

from what i also know isnt it genies have chains because it restricts their full power and they also have restrictions on certain wishes

you could wish monkey paw for immortality but it will probably do a doctor who treatment on you "we wanted to live forever, so the doctor made sure we did"

while genie is probably restricted on giving u immortality anything that might defy life/death as these are undeniable primordial of existence

[ruby pivot]

just a saw a clip basically, but being immortal while being in eternal torment sounds really not worth it

[lofty cape]

Most powerful fire team?

Just curious

[trim grotto]

I don't think we could really categorise them like that, to be honest.

[lofty cape]

Interesting

Lots of fire teams in lore, not one that stands above the rest?

I would think Kabr’s gotta be top 5

[trim grotto]

While we know a bit about Kabr's Fireteam as individual members, we don't know much about their exploits as a Fireteam. Their expedition into the Vault of Glass wasn't exactly a success.

We know of numerous famous Fireteams, but I wouldn't really rank them in terms of power.

[lofty cape]

Not even the old vanguard?

I would argue Saint alone would put them up there.

Or the young wolf if you wanna count that

[trim grotto]

Sure, they're strong. But comparing Fireteams isn't a very easy task under most circumstances. The same tired old rules of power scaling apply, wherein context is king.

[lofty cape]

Gotcha

Hmmmm

that’s unfortunate

[frigid sparrow]

also a lot of fireteams have dead members

It's not as easy to examine a fireteam's capabilities when they're out of commission due to them not being a full team (rip reed-7)

however, the actual strongest fireteam is the group of hunters who managed to get shaxx's severed horn

[dim minnow]

they did not take it off of his helmet

they merely found it on the battlefield

[frigid sparrow]

didn't say that

just that they got it

actually now that I'm reading up on the non-hunter GG lore tabs what the actual fuck is wrong with warlocks

"Let's just say she's about to have a bad case of existential dread the night before the match."

The Warlocks snickered. "Little trick I picked up from the Psions," the Voidwalker finished.

what do you mean they can just cast nightmare spell

[dim minnow]

must not have done it very well, because they lost that Felwinter's Helm

that one entry where the Titans bet in favor of Hunters because they think it would help the Titans win is peak

[frigid sparrow]

And all they did was lose out on some glimmer

[dim minnow]

Hunters won that year, so they actually won a bag

[frigid sparrow]

Wait shit am I mixing up my guardian gameses

[dim minnow]

in fact, it seems like the Deaath Dealers got to keep Shaxx's horn too

also worth noting that the warlocks were up against Titans so the only reason we knew they lost was because Pra'kesh was wearing a Felwinter's Helm

because it was part of the bet

[dim minnow]

in an entry from the next year's Guardian Games

[eager trout]

How do Savathun's illusions work?

[ember storm]

Depends on what you mean

Like her clone projection things are basically the same thing Osiris used to do

[slim girder]

Savathun has lots of illusions.

Some like the ones in her throne world are hidden in memory which is where our use of deepsight is needed.

[lofty cape]

Actually you know what, I like the seraph fireteams the best

Rasputin the goat, rip homie

[covert stone]

Hello lore people, what would be some adjectives used to describe hive, specifically wizard, "flesh"?

[frigid sparrow]

Hive? Chitin

[dim minnow]

Hive are not very fleshy

they are more... insect-like

[ember storm]

Chitinous

Crusty

They canonically smell like soil

[covert stone]

So, chitinous? Would it be correct to call their chitin "shell"?

[ember storm]

It’s chitin

Exoskeleton

[trim grotto]

I would call it chitin.

[dim minnow]

yeah just call it chitin

[ember storm]

It’s part of their skin

[covert stone]

I see, thank you

[ember storm]

You know how when you kill hive and they just crumble into dust and their chitin flies everywhere

[slim girder]

Oryx turns dead hive into materials for his ships

Pretty much all of the hive are chitin.

[low gyro]

based

[pure tree]

does anyone know which lore tab is the one that describes how warlocks like to disintegrate guardians by shaking their hands for fun?

idk if im going crazy but i couldve sworn that sounds familiar as destiny lore

[ember storm]

Never heard of it

Casual murder is fairly frowned upon if you’re not in the crucible

[eager trout]

when you realize lore-accurate Warlocks can basically do anything with their elements and are not limited to pew pew

[glass rain]

Do i use the risk taker or the graviton lance or the sun shot

[foggy mesa]

was there ever an explanation why the guardian able to wield both light and dark

[sleek matrix]

Well we had the light since d1

The darkness can be used by anyone

[foggy mesa]

Yes but nobody can use it both and harmonize like us

wasnt we the first ever to combine both into a single power?

[sleek matrix]

Yea most use one or the other

But that's also cuz they may have lost there ghost

And for a long time alot of em were scared to use the darkness because they thought darkness= bad

Like zavala

[foggy mesa]

did zavala went all the way in and embrace darkness in the end... although its at the cost of his light...

but then again theres ikora

i wonder why she cant use both light and darkness like us?

[sleek matrix]

He's practicing to use stasis

[foggy mesa]

she should be the smart one ??

[sleek matrix]

Since he lost his ghost aswell

[sleek matrix]

I think its a personal choice

She doesn't wanna use it

[foggy mesa]

Personal choice? I mean considering we figting a world ending catastrophe she shouldnt be picky right 🤣🤣

Cuz manifesting both definitely increase our power by a huge margin no??

[sleek matrix]

Yea but it was zavala role to embrace the darkness

She more there to keep the faith in the traveler

Ikora through out the campaign still had faith in the traveler where as zavala was the opposite

[foggy mesa]

True... but now the question goes back to us again how did we manage to embrace both...

Ironicallt theres not enough role as us guardian 🤣

It felt like a plot armor that we just suddenly powered up

[sleek matrix]

I would say prismatic has always been hinted at for years

The best example of that was the ron raid

How we would use both dark and light through out the raid in order to defeat each encounter

At the start of destiny it was very back and white in terms of light= good and dark = bad beyond light was a huge shift

Guardian embracing darkness ( stasis)

[foggy mesa]

No no i mean im totally fine

With the prismatic studf

Its pretty much obvious by the time strand and stasis were introduced

It just felt weird that WE are the only one who can use both while nobody else could

We know alot of people who ONLY use 1

But nobody else besides us can use BOTH

[sleek matrix]

That was the same with strand aswell

Guardion could only use it at first

Overtime more characters might be able to use it

[foggy mesa]

Hmm i wonder if theres more explanation on why we are so special

I mean i know we are the mc but a bit of a lore would be nice 🤣

How exactly are we different from the rest that also got revived by the ghost

[sleek matrix]

Honestly

Lore has to make concessions for gameplay

[ember storm]

That’s the entire point

[sleek matrix]

Gameplay will always come first

[ember storm]

The pale heart only opened up just now and primordial darkness and light was mixed together for the first time

The traveler opened wells for us to tap into that power

[foggy mesa]

Yes i understand this but my issue is why cant the rest also tap into that power?

[sleek matrix]

It kinda like what happened with the awoken home world aswell

[ember storm]

Because the traveler is familiar with us

[sleek matrix]

Dark and light collided and make a pocket dimension

[ember storm]

It’s not like this is the first time it’s contacted us directly over anyone else

[foggy mesa]

Wait elaborste more

[ember storm]

It knows us and confided in us

[foggy mesa]

Is there a special reason why traveler choose us specifically? Or its just the plot

[sleek matrix]

The traveler has communicated to us many times

[ember storm]

Red war, traveler sends us and us alone a vision directing us to the EDZ shard to reclaim our lost light

[sleek matrix]

In forms of dreams

Not just us

Crow ikora and other characters

[ember storm]

Were the ones who destroyed the black heart and first helped the traveler heal since the collapse

The traveler knows us specifically

[foggy mesa]

Mmm ur right ok i never see it this way

[ember storm]

It contacted us directly in red war and forsaken

[sleek matrix]

But I will say

Micah 10

[foggy mesa]

So what ur saying traveler prolly have the most interaction with us

But then again

Its just sad

[sleek matrix]

Has also a unique connection to the traveler too

[foggy mesa]

How zavala and ikora got ignored

[ember storm]

Micah 10’s interaction with the traveler is more speaker oriented

[sleek matrix]

Yes

[ember storm]

She’s had that connection since she was a mortal child

Our connection to the traveler is different

It’s not like the traveler was ever telling speakers to be its champions

[foggy mesa]

Atp we should be the vanguard leader

[ember storm]

That’s the opposite of the point actually

[sleek matrix]

But I think speakers play an Important role

[ember storm]

They interpret the traveler’s will and thoughts

We play a different role but we’re still just as important

I’m not downplaying Micah

[foggy mesa]

Wdym by this

[ember storm]

I mean the fact that we were told directly by the traveler to tap into prismatic is evidence enough

It knows us and trusts us

It wasn’t allowing just anybody to have that power

[sleek matrix]

Yea no doubt

[ember storm]

Vanguard leaders are meant to be tacticians and leaders

[foggy mesa]

Wait im a bit confused tbh.... if traveler is the embodiment of light and witness is the embodiment of dark.... how did the traveler control the dark from the witness so we can harness both

[ember storm]

Specifically confined to their desks so they’re not put in danger (see literally ever Hunter vanguard)

[ember storm]

Witness isn’t

That would be the veil

[foggy mesa]

Oh but the witness trapped the veil?

[sleek matrix]

Even the traveler isn't the true embodiment of the light

[foggy mesa]

In that ritual thingy?

[ember storm]

And the traveler didn’t control anything in the pale heart beyond letting us use the power it was being mixed with

[ember storm]

No

The veil is completely inactive

It doesn’t move or do anything

The precursors just took it

[foggy mesa]

So light and dark isnt conscious?

They are simply energy

?

[ember storm]

Light and darkness are established to just be forces

The traveler and the veil are separate from the powers themselves

[sleek matrix]

They are forces of nature

[ember storm]

Having control of one doesn’t mean you control the other

[foggy mesa]

So the traveler n the veil work together so we can have prismatic?

[ember storm]

The witness was established years ago to not be “the darkness”

[ember storm]

No

The witness forced a connection between the two

It infested the traveler with darkness

[sleek matrix]

The witness brought in the darkness into the traveler

Once we killed the witness his corruption went but the darkness is still there

[ember storm]

It’s sort of very artsy so I don’t blame you for not understanding it but there’s that whole vision we get when we first enter the pale heart

[sleek matrix]

Traveler is being transformed

It's also not a good or a bad thing

[foggy mesa]

Yes i understand that but what im confused is how they mix both

[sleek matrix]

You should watch a vid on the visions of the traveler

[ember storm]

https://youtu.be/QdWpFz3Tm-o?si=IPRJpi5vUDWxuWO1

[foggy mesa]

Wait so this is where the mixing happening

[ember storm]

It’s a vision representing the darkness infecting the traveler

[sleek matrix]

Look at the visuals carefully

[foggy mesa]

So witness didnt realize by bringing darkness into the traveler he kinda created a new form of power which is prismatic?

[sleek matrix]

It starts of full of light

[ember storm]

Prismatic isn’t a power on its own

[sleek matrix]

And then the darkness comes

[ember storm]

It’s the result of us being able to wield light and darkness ourselves

[sleek matrix]

Infects everything

[ember storm]

Direct connection to the traveler (which was currently fused with darkness) allowed us to erase the dividing lines between our powers and mix them

[sleek matrix]

When you actually get prismatic before u can see the dark and light combining

Before it turns into prismatic

[foggy mesa]

OHHH

[sleek matrix]

Like the raw energy of light and dark

[ember storm]

There’s light and there’s darkness

[foggy mesa]

Wait this makes total sense

[ember storm]

Prismatic is the result of us mixing them

[foggy mesa]

Damn

[ember storm]

The witness wasn’t making prismatic

It was just infecting the traveler with darkness to further its own ends

[foggy mesa]

Wait is this actually the lore?! Damn its kinda deep

Our guardian is kinda pog being able to do that 🤣

[ember storm]

Yeah it’s sorta the point of the campaign

[foggy mesa]

Damn cool!! Ok thanks yall 🤣 thats a really sick thing happening .... wish it wouldve been implied more in the story but looks amazing otherwise

[sleek matrix]

It was Implied

Visually

Right in front of you

[foggy mesa]

I feel like there should totally be a dialog about this cuz this really solve the "plot armor" feel of us suddenly get powerfull of nowhere

[sleek matrix]

The little details always tell alot

[foggy mesa]

Yra true

[ember storm]

It’s been that way literally the whole franchise

We’ve been “the chosen one” since the vanilla campaign

There’s really nothing that separated us from other guardians power wise up until literally BL

[foggy mesa]

No no i mean the part where our connection to the "infected" traveler enabled us to erase that line between light n dark

[ember storm]

Ghost says it

Word for word

[foggy mesa]

Wait he did?!

[ember storm]

I was quoting him

“The line between light and darkness… it’s gone!”

Yeah

[foggy mesa]

I missed that dialog ?!

[foggy mesa]

Og no

Ohh

[sleek matrix]

It has been gone

[foggy mesa]

I remember that

[sleek matrix]

For ages

[foggy mesa]

But the ghost didnt say

Its cuz of the connection with the infected traveler

We just go up to the prismatic well --> transform --> ghost said that line

Felt like a plot armor when i first saw that

But what u said about being connected to infected traveler felt so much more reasonable

[ember storm]

That’s what the cutscene is for

It shows you

Traveler infected with dark

And then the guy gets pris

[atomic violet]

Which formal class was the first

I mean like, before guardian, I assume light bearers doesn't have named class and just do whatever

[blazing wasp]

I don't believe we have a confirmation on which classes existed and which ones were first

[hollow hinge]

I meeeeeean.... Red War?

[blazing wasp]

That only technically counts

[ember storm]

Paralyzing everyone else in the room doesn’t mean you’re legitimately above them

But that also ties into my earlier point

The traveler could’ve contacted anyone at any time

But it waited for us in particular

[hollow hinge]

But didn't we learn some new powers that no one had ever seen before?

Aka the forsaken supers

Well, Tcrash and lol spectral blades

[ember storm]

No, Saladin historically invented tcrash when efrideet threw him off a cliff

A guardian’s light has literally no limits in how it’s formed, we specifically just never changed how we did it until the traveler itself told us to do so explicitly

Subclasses are just schools of thought and ways of fighting that basically got mainstream and popular

[blazing wasp]

Felwinter also knew how to use well of radiance

He proposed to use it in place of shaxx' ward of dawn in a hole in his wall when he attempted to recruit shaxx as an iron lord

[hollow hinge]

So the reasoning behind adding new supers like gathering storm and the TFS light supers is just us trying out random thoughts we get lol

[blazing wasp]

As the well would prevent the civilians from freezing to death

[ember storm]

The idea is the traveler showing us new techniques and how to do it directly so we don’t spend years training to learn how to do so effectively

[lofty cape]

just curious where is the seraph and black armory at right now? or how did they get to where they are at?

my two fav factions

[ember storm]

I mean

They’re both completely dead

Ada 1 was the only black armory member since the dark age and everything relating to the forges was lost

Her true calling was found to be clothier related activities though which is why she’s the transmog vendor

Seraphs all died out in the collapse and Rasputin is also gone now, so

[trim grotto]

Apart from us aiding Rasputin and being named Seraphs there hasn't been a faction of them since the Collapse yeah

[ember storm]

It was basically just honorary really

The whole vanguard was tasked with securing the bunkers and helping launch new warsats

We went down with Zavala and Ana to have story time with big red but we didn’t really do anything the original seraphs did

definitely not enough to be considered members of a faction

[trim grotto]

It was mostly Rasputin lamenting their deaths

[ember storm]

my clubhouse is dead wanna be a new member

[lofty cape]

So basically the equal of helping with an estate sale?

wondering what lore I could’ve gave my guardian from those two.

[lofty cape]

Wait though, wouldn’t the bunkers still be online?

[ember storm]

No

Rasputin was in control of everything actually functional in the bunkers

[lofty cape]

oh

I thought the subminds were

[ember storm]

The only reason we went back after the end of seraph was repeated break-ins from our enemies to try stealing whatever leftover data or tech they could

The subminds stopped being subminds when we took them apart to remake Rasputin

[lofty cape]

oh wow

so we basically killed them and scrapped there parts to remake red

[ember storm]

They weren’t actual warminds to begin with

[lofty cape]

oh

[ember storm]

Submind meaning they were just bits Rasputin copied of himself to continually maintain specific functions without his direct input

[lofty cape]

So a hive mind in a way?

[ember storm]

The one on Europa isn’t even a submind

[ember storm]

No

They’re just actual computer ai

[lofty cape]

oh

[ember storm]

Rasputin developed into his own being

[lofty cape]

Gotcha

I guess my next question would be, would Ana try and make a new Red?

not even red specifically, just another defense network after the whole witness thing

[trim grotto]

Rebuilding something on the level of Rasputin would take decades, at least. Rasputin's basline code originated from before the Golden Age and he had been evolving for centuries, and we don't have nearly as much of the tech or resources as the Brays did in the Golden Age.

[lofty cape]

oh I see

[trim grotto]

Besides, Ana and Rasputin shared a special connection. She was one of the only people for a long time to see him as more than a weapon.

[lofty cape]

can’t rebuild that

So what is she doing now then?

Just chilling in Mars?

[trim grotto]

I don't believe she returned to Mars since its return other than to aid us in retrieving Charlemagne

I expect she's spending time with Camrin

And Archie.

[lofty cape]

Oh…. Don’t know who that is. I’ll have to read about her

[trim grotto]

Camrin? Ana's romantic partner, and a scientist of Owl Sector.

[lofty cape]

Did not know of her existence

Last thing I saw of Ana was her not being dead

[ember storm]

I think her and Elsie were shown post excision

Probably making up for a lot of lost times to just be sisters

[lofty cape]

yeah, especially after the whole dark future thing

[trim grotto]

Futures, plural.

[lofty cape]

interesting

well, since there is no future of the seraphs. That brings me to Ada, what are the chances she starts weapon designing again?

or even bringing back armor of the black armory

[trim grotto]

She did help out Shaxx with the Brave arsenal, but she's quite comfortable with her new position.

[ember storm]

Weapon designing is something she could very much do on her free time

But like I said, without any of the actual forges? The black armory is just done

At that point without any of the things that made BA weapons unique, she’d just be another gunsmith which we don’t really need

[trim grotto]

The armour could certainly reappear though.

[lofty cape]

So it’s a forgetting a past life kinda thing?

[trim grotto]

I wouldn't say forgetting. Just, moving on.

[ember storm]

Since she was a child she was basically forced into the role of “I have to keep this operation going or else I’m a failure to what my mother died to protect” and watched literally a century go by without actually amounting to much

She wasn’t actually living much of a life before we came along

[lofty cape]

Interesting, and what about the forges or niobe?

[trim grotto]

The Forges have been missing since the end of Season of Arrivals.

[lofty cape]

Oh??

[trim grotto]

If by Project Niobe you're referring to Ada-1's Obsidian Accelerator, she probably could still use that to upgrade weaponry or make small scale gear. But, well, she's moving on.

[trim grotto]

Yes, that's what Waltz was getting at.

It's been about four years since we've seen one.

[lofty cape]

I meant Niobe labs

[trim grotto]

Well there's still no Forge there and the labs have been otherwise abandoned since the Dark Ages and Project Niobe's activation

Siviks aside

[ember storm]

The upgrade Ada got in the end of the BA season was just to further enhance weapons already made

[slim girder]

Ada seems a lot more interested in the new loom we've made. I'm sure the weapons tech is still around but I don't think Ada wants to go back to that position of weapons maker.

[ember storm]

Contrary to popular belief she’s not capable of literally consuming molten parts and dispensing tools of war

[trim grotto]

Through the power of Glow™️

[ember storm]

Actually how did spider even meet Ada anyway

[trim grotto]

Black Market racketeer wanted to meet the Black Market weapons maker I expect

[lofty cape]

Mannn, so I need something new to base my fire team off of

Since BA and Seraphs are practically dead

[lofty cape]

Anything similar I can use? Or mostly exos

[lost bobcat]

hello, coming from other channel. was there ever a cinematic/cutscene with the traveller growing normal earth plants? not like the ones from RoN, but like, normal crop. i swear it was like, witch queen or something? since the first mission takes place on mars

[trim grotto]

Well, Mars was full of living crops due to the time tears, showing us windows into the Golden Age. We didn't see the Traveler grow them, though its terraforming is why they could grow. The old 2014 D1 cutscene shows it creating the first rains of Mars.

[trim grotto]

Could you elaborate a bit on what you're after?

[lost bobcat]

i might be thinking of that, and just kind of melding it in with the crops we see in the tears

thank you

[lofty cape]

im gonna sound like a giga nerd but I play this game by themeing my guardians around others. My guardians were seraphs at one point and users of BA at another

[trim grotto]

You could look at Io if you're after something in particular. Io was only half terraformed, but there is still plantlife.

[trim grotto]

Well, the equipment of the Black Armory still exists. There's just no new stuff.

You could look into the Hidden.

[lost bobcat]

ah nah man that sounds rad. immersing yourself and RPing is where its at. with the amount of customization i think D2 is great for that

[lofty cape]

that is the one think stopping me, no black armory weapons

hidden could be cool, farmable from WQ

[trim grotto]

There are the Exotics. Jotunn, Le Monarque, Izanagi's Burden. Hammerhead and Blast Furnace from Onslaught as part of the Brave Arsenal.

[lofty cape]

yeah.. not enough though imo

[trim grotto]

There's a BA ornament for Colony and Forerunner
And Dunemarchers
Renewal Grasps have their logo

[lofty cape]

do love me some graps

[lofty cape]

ill have to look at these

[lofty cape]

thanks man, it's how I keep myself from getting bored too

[trim grotto]

I keep myself from getting bored by learning lore
All the lore

And then I come into chats like this one and teach people about it

[lofty cape]

like me!

🙂

any other ideas for possible things I can do?

Hidden is great one cause it has armor I can transmog

[trim grotto]

Vanguard, BrayTech, foundry representative (Tex Mechanica for example), Iron Lords... Vex, even. Dead Zone scout.

[lofty cape]

would foundery rep include spire dunegon armor?

Vex?!

[trim grotto]

In this case. Daito and Prophesy, Hakke and Duality. There are some foundry sets in Eververse. Veist for Hunter, Omolon for Titan, Tex Mechanica again for Warlock.

[trim grotto]

Sure. Vault of Glass and Garden of Salvation have a set each, for example. All the weapons from last Episode too.

On a similar note, you could do Hive.

[lofty cape]

kings fall?

[trim grotto]

And Crota's End, and Ghosts of the Deep, and Grasp of Avarice.

[lofty cape]

oh wow

lot's of choices

[trim grotto]

GoA is technically Thorn themed but Thorn was a Hive-cursed gun, so.

[lofty cape]

learning a little towards Hidden

reading about them it sounds awesome

[trim grotto]

They're also delightfully nerdy. Go listen to the Warlock in the Enclave, she has idle dialogue.

[lofty cape]

!

omw rn

[trim grotto]

https://youtu.be/T5qH95PyQ5Q?si=RAML52BNyGVLJFfi
Destiny Lore Vault has all the lines, too. If you want an easier listening experience.

[lofty cape]

that does help

Hidden is nice too, not locked to any specific lore

well kinda

[trim grotto]

If you're curious about reading deeper I can send you the two halves to the Hidden Dossier later
Later being like, 3 or 4 hours when I've finished my shift. My lunch break is ending.

Unless someone like Waltz or Dova get them to you first

[lofty cape]

I'll read them on Braytech website I think

unless it's not a lore book then yes please

[lofty cape]

one last thing if I may, how big is the hidden?

[trim grotto]

You're reading lore on a Braytech website?

[lofty cape]

it's onne of them

[trim grotto]

Part 2 is on Ishtar, but Part 1 was a physical edition, part of the WQ CE. It's been transcribed.

[trim grotto]

I'm assuming you mean the Ishtar Collective

[lofty cape]

yeah! that one

huh, apperently the guardian is already a member of the hidden. even better

[trim grotto]

As of Witch Queen, we aided them. Careful with Destinypedia, though. We didn't become a true member of the Hidden.

[lofty cape]

honarary?

[trim grotto]

Basically. Becoming a Hidden has a few... Well, I'll explain later. My break is over and I'm out of time. Ciao!

[lofty cape]

Have fun! Please do @ me later i'd love to hear more

[eager trout]

Considering we're on their watchlist, it's probably more that they're keeping us close just in case

[woven hawk]

Idk if this is the right place to discuss this, but has anyone else noticed how the in ability descriptions, Light damage types are described as “energy” while darkness types are described as “matter”? I swear in a TWAB a while ago they talked about renaming the Kinetic slot to better describe the fact it contains both Kinetic and Darkness damage types. Is our Kinetic slot gonna become the Matter slot at some point?

[dim minnow]

bit hard for Kinetic to be "matter"

but not a bad idea

[woven hawk]

I think it kinda makes sense. They are basically just conventional firearms which definitely fire matter very quickly at the target. We’ll see though. That TWAB that mentioned renaming the Kinetic slot was months ago and we’ve heard nothing about it since

[eager trout]

If they do that, they can then make a kinetic slot exotic that deals Light damage but has the perk of being kinetic (and having any benefits deriving from that)

[woven hawk]

That's kind of like the inverse of the Osmosis perk on kinetics

[ember storm]

Isn’t that

Microcosm

[woven hawk]

Unfortunately being kinetic has way less benefits and build potential than energy still. Removing the damage bonus against bosses made it even worse

[eager trout]

I meant a kinetic slot weapon with energy damage type

[woven hawk]

There is the issue of energy rockets, bows, and grenade launchers definitely firing projectiles with mass, which by definition is matter. But they can't really be all the way accurate with stuff like this in this type of fantasy sci fi game

[woven hawk]

So that basically is osmosis but active all the time. Or like D1 exotic raid primaries. If it were void or took the damage type of your subclass I'd definitely use that

[slim girder]

That's the beauty of them. They're just good on their own and at least with prismatic they are great for building energy. A kinetic weapon is just a simple gun that's good at shooting aliens.

The weapons of sorrow at least on warlock have very good build potential as kinetics.

Also speaking of weapons of sorrow. Do y'all think they can speak to their wielders? A bit like how riven spoke to uldren when he was corrupted? Just this voice in the back of the users head tell them to kill or something?

The weapons have a hunger so I wonder if they can tell whoever is holding them where the best "food" is for them.

[trim grotto]

I think Jana-14 is an example of, while not exactly that, something very akin

[slim girder]

That's what I'm thinking. Like since she views it as a child does it behave like one if that makes sense.

[lost abyss]

This game has long needed a gun with voice lines imo. iirc We haven't had anything like that, ever. We have plenty of canonically sentient weaponry though. I want my gun to comment on me chasing the Dregs in the Cosmodrome

[primal field]

Put Glados in the portal gun looking ornament for tractor

[lost abyss]

I would move planets to have her be my on-board weapon "AI"

[dim minnow]

Heirarchy of Needs does speak

I think in russian

[primal field]

Was the Rasputin AI ever put in a gun?

I know we have Soteria in hierarchy

[dim minnow]

Rasputin himself no

[primal field]

But I don't remember Rasputin or any other AI in guns

Actually wait

[dim minnow]

DARCI is an AI

[primal field]

Maybe merciless and Darci

[dim minnow]

I think Merciless too

[primal field]

Yeah I remembered of Darci right after that

[primal field]

Iirc it gets mad everytime you don't kill an enemy

And that's why it shoots faster

[dim minnow]

that's how you get AM

a weapon powered by hatred

[lost abyss]

That's odd. I don't recall any in-game voice lines from Soteria as the bow.

[trim grotto]

They're basically old Rasputin voicelines - fragmented, backwards/flipped Russian phrases, if I recall.

[lofty cape]

So wait, I’ve been thinking about this. How does one join Ikoras hidden?

[trim grotto]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UDF2gZFAVhn6vXjVdgWXO5P1Fdb6VFSMRTyx88Im0es/edit?usp=sharing
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/records/the-hidden-dossier
First of all, here are the links I meant to send earlier to the two halves of the Hidden Dossier

In that specific order

I do not know of a specific way to join the Hidden - you may simply gain Ikora's eye, or even simply ask her - but joining the Hidden requires you to defeat your own ego. Become someone new. Dedicated. Purposeful.

"Know thy self." —second dictate, first calling, The Hidden
"Destroy thy self." —third dictate, first calling, The Hidden
"Shed thy self." —fourth dictate, first calling, The Hidden
"Embrace a new skin." —fifth dictate, first calling, The Hidden
"Become the many." —sixth dictate, first calling, The Hidden
"We are as unseen. We are as death." —final dictate, first calling, The Hidden```

You may know some of the members already. Aunor Mahal, Eris Morn Fenchurch Everis, Chalco Yong, and Lisbon-13, for example.

The Google Doc transcript has the First Calling as some of the first entries, and might explain more about what it means to be Hidden.

I'm gonna have a shower then head to bed
If you've got any questions ask them now and I'll catch you after I shower, before I sleep

[lofty cape]

Not at the moment, thank you greatly for this though

[primal field]

In the lore it's always a single Fireteam that actually goes into the raids and clears them right?

(different Fireteam might have cleared different raids but it's worlds first that is the one that actually clears it in the lore?)

[lofty cape]

Interested ^

[primal field]

@trim grotto

[lofty cape]

He go bed

[primal field]

He said he went to take a shower, was hoping he wouldn't be so fast to take it and then go to bed

[blazing wasp]

fell asleep in shower

[trim grotto]

Well, Raids only happen once, so yeah. Only one Fireteam each for a Raid.
Whether you consider World's First to be the "canon" Fireteam or not is pretty much up to you, though.

[blazing wasp]

Raids are done once with you, and 5 others, which are up to you to decide who are

Probably the same jig as why our past, personality and such are left vague, to make room for headcanons

[primal field]

Ahh i see

So the real canon Fireteam is the friends we made along the way

[fast tapir]

[lofty cape]

The hidden are cool, definitely taking them as my new fireteam theme

[knotty musk]

where’s that moment where ||cayde considers killing crow/glint||

what item is it on or is it like dialogue for a quest

[fast tapir]

i believe its still hunt

[slim girder]

Still hunt lore tab

[knotty musk]

ty

[frigid sparrow]

it's shaxx and immaru for this year's new fotl lines? huh. neat

[jagged badge]

Shaxx and Immaru have been in it since last year

I don’t know if there are new lines tbh

[frigid sparrow]

not me forgetting that witch was fotl last year

[slim girder]

Mines all mixed up.
I've got shaxx and imaru, drifter and eido, glint and Petra and ikora.

I've heard everyone so far.

[frigid sparrow]

petra and ikora?

I don't remember them being in there before

[slim girder]

Yeah petra calls sometimes asking about us taking time off for the festival

[frigid sparrow]

glint was first, then eido/drifter, then shaxx/immaru. maybe they were in the first year of haunted sectors with glint

[slim girder]

Petra and glint were first

Because at the time it was season of the lost and crow was depresso

[frigid sparrow]

damn that's RIGHT

but yeah the lines mix around since at least least year

[eager trout]

So, in terms of exotic weapons that are weapons our enemies have in gameplay, there's Grand Overture, Skyburner's Oath, Ex Diris, what else?

Oh, right

The Queenbreaker

Lord of Wolves

What else?

[slim girder]

Heir apparent

Grand overture

[eager trout]

I mentioned Grand Overture

Also, yeah, Heir Apparent

Why are most of them Cabal weapons?

Is Striga Osea a weapon the Hive normally use?

[slim girder]

Striga is a weapon of sorrow

Ex diris is the only hive weapon we have

[ember storm]

Osteo is specifically a makeshift science project made in the likes of the WoS that a literally insane warlock made

Following an increasing obsession with the original thorn which resulted in numerous deaths of her research team tasked with uncovering its secrets

She is currently still at large and using it to murder people, which she sees as providing for her “baby”

[ember storm]

Buried Bloodline is a scorn crossbow

[stark fjord]

now that im thinking about it, there really isnt much of a difference between rasputin and the traveller characterwise

"The Bray family shaped me to be an all-seeing savior...while your Vanguard sought to wield me as a primitive weapon."

obv bray family mumbo jumbo aside

theyre both gods that are hated for doing the right thing when you get down to it

[ember storm]

Rasputin was never hated for doing the right thing

He was hated for being incredibly selfish and self righteous

[stark fjord]

sorry lol i was thinking more ab the traveller tbh

[ember storm]

He murdered hundreds of iron lords and his own son out of jealousy

[stark fjord]

yeah no he was awful

dont get me wrong

[ember storm]

He actively shot down colony ships in the collapse

Just sat down and didn’t make contact with us for like a thousand years

Killed anyone who tried to contact him

[eager trout]

What is it with Bungie and crazy women?

[frigid sparrow]

Idk but they need to keep it up

But we can't forget about our fair share of crazy men (toland)

[ember storm]

He’s not crazy he’s just an asshole

[frigid sparrow]

Also, Dregs Promise

[vagrant bridge]

So what exactly happened to the conductor? It seems like she escaped?

Also, what did she mean by "I can only make you look"

Was there a goal besides finding the "true" Chioma and reshaping the universe

[dim minnow]

she escaped

[dim minnow]

it seems it was her figuring out that she can't make us go along with her plans

or maybe it's something we will get more context on later on

[vagrant bridge]

Ohh okay

[dim minnow]

her goals were to find her true Chioma nad to spread her Radiolaria throughout Sol so she can bring about her idea of a new Golden Age

[vagrant bridge]

So bungie's probably bringing her back in the near future

[trim grotto]

Sooner or later.

[vagrant bridge]

Makes sense

Gracias

[dim minnow]

she doesn't like what happened to humanity after the Collapse

[vagrant bridge]

Because it wasn't how she wanted it to be?

Also, she mentions something about how "third dimensional beings have trouble understanding"
Am I mistaken in assuming she's still third dimensional? Vex aren't really fourth dimensional and presumably, neither is Maya

[dim minnow]

she is disappointed by how we haven't reclaimed much of what we had lost yet despite the fact we got our shit kicked in and haven't been in a good position to start actually rebuilding until now

[dim minnow]

well, Vex have a certain way of percieving time

think of it like reading a Choose Your Own Adventure book in page order like it is a normal book

that's how a Vex percieves events

given that The Conductor has a very Vex way of thinking in regards of her search for Chioma, it is possible that she gained this way of perception as well

not quite sure what qualifies as one being "beyond" 3rd dimensional

but Vex are pretty ludicrous

so maybe they are

and maybe The Conductor has a bit of that as well

[vagrant bridge]

I think to be 4th dimensional you both have to perceive and move through time, but I'm not sure

I think that would make Vex 3.5?

[vagrant bridge]

Oh so she's just a tiger mom

[slim girder]

So are we going to get any answer to the headless ones? Obviously it's just lore that gives reason for us doing the event but it seems each year we get more about them so I wonder if that will eventually pan out.

[dim minnow]

I'm still convinced that we were right the first time and they were results of Nokris experimenting

[jagged badge]

She’s like those fuckers who beep their horn the nanosecond the traffic light goes green

[slim elk]

Honestly the Conductor feels like a giant missed opportunity given that's the first mainline "human" antagonist in Destiny

(There's Clovis and his giant head but he hasn't done much and we can wreck him at any time)

Could easily of had that Echoes ability to control the Vex be used as a bargaining chip to get the Vanguard to work with the Conductor at first

Potentially remove an entire threat to humanity at large and lay the ground for expanding beyond the City's walls while reclaiming lost golden age tech

[eager trout]

But most of them went crazy because of the Darkness or something, while the women kinda just...are.

[frigid sparrow]

With how there were vexo frames within the conductor's lab (Chioma or not they're still dead now and being.. taken over?) it would've been neat if the vex had co-opted that technology and gained a new enemy type

Something more human to represent the individuality the vex are growing into

[ember storm]

Well this would be the second time now we’ve just left active vex technology sit around the tower

I’m surprised the last city override hasn’t happened multiple times now

[blazing wasp]

Paracausal firewall

[tawdry wigeon]

Hey i wasn't playing when echoes was available, could someone sum up the story? Cuz i have so many vex questions and they are the one faction I don't understand so im trying to piece every bit of lore I can to maybe get a picture of all the vex groups and what they etc

[fresh zephyr]

How powerful do you think a wyvern's legs are?

[jagged badge]

Maya Sundaresh, a Golden Age researcher and one of the founders of Neomuna, came in possession of what’s called an Echo. Powerful materialisations of memory and the Witness’ power, caused by its actions within the Pale Heart. She used this Echo - the Echo of Command - to compel the Vex on Nessus under her sway

[blazing wasp]

We have not seen the force the legs can produce a whole lot

[jagged badge]

She sought to use the Vex to rebuild the Golden Age, and assimilate everyone, willing or not, into it

[fresh zephyr]

You think it could probably send you straight through multiple walls with one kick?

[tawdry wigeon]

So the bug bad person we see is maya?

[blazing wasp]

Unlikely

[jagged badge]

Correct

[blazing wasp]

Unless the walls are manufactured in suburban America

[fresh zephyr]

So perhaps at least one concrete wall?

[blazing wasp]

Not sure if we can measure anything on concrete walls given how varying concrete walls tend to be in strength

[fresh zephyr]

Could the wyvern's slam be anything to go off of?

[blazing wasp]

Not very

[jagged badge]

When we’re first investigating the change in the Nessus Vex, who have seemingly begun to develop independent thought and unusual behaviours, Saint heard a voice that we later discovered to be Maya, trying to compel him to her side. It also gave him a little existential crisis about not being the real Saint, due to being a version from another timeline that we and Osiris rescued

[blazing wasp]

Enough that it's capable of launching a person hard enough into a wall to hurt

The vex' main source of offense isn't really kicks or punches

[tawdry wigeon]

Ohh okay i thought it was one of her copies alright. Seems like a really good story idk why ppl thought that it was mediocre at best

[jagged badge]

Ultimately, Saint is able to come to terms with who he is though. While finding out what Maya’s plan is, we also discover that she is searching the Vex Network for her wife, and brutally discarding any version of Chioma who she doesn’t believe is the real one

[fresh zephyr]

Well now that the vex are becoming more idividual and are employing different tactics, who know. Perhaps we're gonna stumble across a wyvern who knows taekwondo.

[jagged badge]

We manage to track our timeline’s signature of Chioma only to discover that Maya had already discarded her, because Chioma had challenged what Maya was doing so Maya believed she wasn’t “her Chioma”

Really fucked up

[blazing wasp]

Wyverns no, goblins however...

[fresh zephyr]

Imagine a wyvern doing an axe kick

[tawdry wigeon]

Mhmm i see, the Nessus vex have always been my favourite ones. Nessus in general is the best planet in the game.

[tawdry wigeon]

Yea sounds like it wtf

[fresh zephyr]

And minotaurs

[tawdry wigeon]

Now i wish i could play that story damn

[blazing wasp]

Need the annual pass to do so unfortunately

[fresh zephyr]

But I think wyvern could at least do an axe kick

[tawdry wigeon]

Revenant and echoes feel like somewhat interesting filler which is weird i thought they would go way more in depth with the vex and i mean some of groups we know little about

Revenant is meh so far

[jagged badge]

It won’t leave until the next expansion comes out

[tawdry wigeon]

I thought we could see some of the forsaken prisoners

[tawdry wigeon]

I can still play it?

[jagged badge]

It would you require you to buy the Final Shape Annual Pass but yes

[tawdry wigeon]

Ah i just got tfs so i only got revenant

[jagged badge]

Ah gotcha

If there’s ever a sale on the upgrade it’s worth getting tbh. Echoes has some really good loot too

[tawdry wigeon]

Echoes actually has a story even if its filler, revenant so far seems meh

[tawdry wigeon]

Will def get it

No way im missing out on it

The next episode is hive related right?

[jagged badge]

Yea

[tawdry wigeon]

Hmm

[jagged badge]

Episode: Heresy. Almost definitely focused on Xivu Arath and Eris Morn

[tawdry wigeon]

So the continuation of that one season maybe?

[jagged badge]

Assuming you mean Season of the Witch, yeah

[tawdry wigeon]

Yeap

[jagged badge]

It’d likely deal with the fallout of Xivu being mortal now, and also the fact that the Witness is now gone and such

I’m very excited for it

[tawdry wigeon]

Idr if xivu was as connected with the witness as savathun was

Sounds nice tho

[jagged badge]

Xivu worked for the Witness so

[tawdry wigeon]

Oh nvm then she was very involved with them

[royal adder]

why is it some people want a siva subclass like thats not even something that can be weldid is it? like is there any entity that has used siva in a subclass sort of way?

[blazing wasp]

Siva is not something we can wield as a subclass, not everyone understands how subclasses work lore wise at a basic level

[royal adder]

i thought so

cause siva is just machines right?

or like nanobots or whatever

[blazing wasp]

Yes

[outer dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/senator-armstrong-nanomachines-son-gif-25954092

(I'm so happy I get to use this)

[outer dragon]

I wonder if Xivu is gonna get the Echo and we have two different forms of Lucent Hive

[ember storm]

Probably going to be something related to wrathborn and her totems

Maybe we actually get to see the eldritch mutations lore described

[empty fern]

Lore challenge of the day

Source of
“Mothers garlic onion pirogies”

[ember storm]

No

[outer dragon]

Im stumped

[empty fern]

Come on yall, it’s super old

Well

Biggest hint is beyond light

[trim grotto]

Nice reference

[empty fern]

Source it

[trim grotto]

Very well, one moment

https://youtu.be/TrWHnpUxKTE?si=dTYsfkVMT6MI8DGV

It's "hungry for hunger" Knox

[empty fern]

Congrats, mael found it

(Like usual) 🦐

Oh since when did zavalas office have an ergo sum (without ghost, pun intended)

Wait, no that’s just uhhh

A sword frame

[fresh zephyr]

Do things that happen in gameplay reflect the lore at times?

[ember storm]

At times

[fresh zephyr]

What about when enemies rapid fire their weapons

For example, when you ride your sparrow minotaurs will shoot their torch hammers at a faster rate no?

[ember storm]

That’s not specific to anything

All enemy guns fire faster when you’re driving

[fresh zephyr]

I know

I'm saying is that how it could be in the lore

Cuz there's this clip

[empty fern]

Shhh

[fresh zephyr]

https://youtu.be/2b5XTkDbOAQ?si=yBlMOXY4wMdSX_Xo

[empty fern]

No lore reason for it

[fresh zephyr]

but in the lore it could probably do that right?

[trim grotto]

An enemy could fire faster, but that'd raise the question of why they don't fire that quickly normally.

A lot of things in gameplay are reflected in the lore, but this is not explicitly one of them.

[fresh zephyr]

Gameplay reason

Right

[blazing wasp]

a gameplay reason will not reflect in lore like that

[fresh zephyr]

Idk I think a wyvern could do that in the lore

[blazing wasp]

sure, but we have nothing to indicate they could

maybe they could, but we have no reason to believe so

[fresh zephyr]

Other than that clip

[blazing wasp]

no

thats purely gameplay, we cant really work on that for lore

[fresh zephyr]

Does the same apply for all enemies?

[heady monolith]

gameplay doesnt always dictate lore, cause if it did, a lot of bugs and glitches would be made 'canon'

[blazing wasp]

It applies for everything in the entire game, gameplay does not automatically reflect lore

this is the same for almost every game.

[fresh zephyr]

Alright

The thought of a full auto wyvern is both cool and terrifying though

And I think the fact the warp Lance is classified as an automatic shotgun, it wouldn't be impossible to believe a wyvern can fire at a higher rate

[trim grotto]

It's not that they mechanically couldn't, it's just that a gameplay mechanic (or bug depending on the scenario) isn't a very strong foundation for something actually being actively canonical.

[fresh zephyr]

I agree

[blazing wasp]

In lore reasons, there's a variety of reasons why some people dont just fire shit faster

recoil, overheating, similar stuff