📚lore-discussion

[tawdry mauve]

its gonna be very different from destiny

because destiny rising doesnt have classes

[dim minnow]

no clue

[limpid blaze]

Lol. Well I appreciate the answer

[tawdry mauve]

its a big speaker

[limpid blaze]

I would find it hilarious if it’s somehow another portal to Volantis

[tawdry mauve]

volantis?

[dim minnow]

the location it leads to is "incomprehensible"

[jagged badge]

The Vex Forge Star

[tawdry mauve]

oh

[dim minnow]

and there's also the strange orange Arc energy

[tawdry mauve]

weird

[limpid blaze]

Forge star under vex control. It’s what the glass way portal leads to

[tawdry mauve]

either someone at bungie is a huge grrm fan

[dim minnow]

seems like a mix between Arc and Solar energy

[tawdry mauve]

or its just a coincidence

[limpid blaze]

Closet thing to a vex homeworld we know about

[tawdry mauve]

do we know that its even a portal?

[limpid blaze]

No. I just think it would be funny if Europa had two of them. Probably was a failed energy device considering how radioactive it is

Or a weapon. Clovis loves his death weapon ms

[tawdry mauve]

idk it doesnt even look that "portaly"

at least not any portal we have seen form the vex before

what the hell even is vesper's station

who is the ai talking to us

[dim minnow]

I did notice that early on in the dungeon there was a containment cell that had some werid Vex cubes in them

however, one of them is gone

[limpid blaze]

It looks very portally. Looks similar to a space bridge imo

[dim minnow]

I wonder is we will ever find it

[tawdry mauve]

to me it looks like some sort of weapon

perhaps clovis's felt inspired by the dreadnoughts weapon

[fresh zephyr]

I know what it could be

But can't say cause it's leaks

[trim grotto]

Good
Please do not allude to it

[outer dragon]

I just want SoTP back

Make a portal to SoTP

[grand spindle]

It's a portal to the destiny rising franchise lol

[fresh zephyr]

What's sotp

[dim minnow]

Scourge of the Past

[fresh zephyr]

Ohh

[dim minnow]

raid that took place in The Last City

[fresh zephyr]

Ye

It was me

[dim minnow]

you know, it is possible that Apollo could be in Old Chicago

[fresh zephyr]

I raided the last city

[fresh zephyr]

Nah

It's brand new

Never been there

Literally out the solar system

Has to be

[ember storm]

Chicago might as well be in another dimension

[fresh zephyr]

I'm guessing we get into dreadnought and become the navigator

[dim minnow]

you know, I actually completely forgot about the concept art that was shown

[ember storm]

Have you ever been

[fresh zephyr]

I'm brish

[ember storm]

Well lucky for everyone the fallen burnt London to the ground and it’s never been recovered

[fresh zephyr]

Thank the lord

I agree

London ass

I don't live there

[trim grotto]

I did for a few months

I'm pretty sure I could feel the pollution settling on my skin on a hot day

[dim minnow]

Namrask is an underrated hero fr

[tough kettle]

Sure feels like another dimension

[fresh zephyr]

Anyone else find it weird as to why the whiteness didn’t just slice us into millions of pieces?

[sinful halo]

We have plot armor

[dim minnow]

The Witness could have ended Sol if it wanted to, but it wants us to suffer

Since it hates the Traveler and those blessed by it

[fresh zephyr]

Yea true

[ember storm]

For majority of FS it was actually still trying to convince us that it was pretty cool actually

[fresh zephyr]

He just wanted friends

[ember storm]

It only became genuinely hostile at the end of iconoclasm, and even then, it had to constantly focus on restraining the traveler from within

[trim grotto]

The Witness wasn't just vibing within the Traveler. It was trying to wrangle and carve apart a god.

That's a heck of a thing to split your attention and power

[fresh zephyr]

Yea I think every should know that by now

My sources are my name is byf lol

[trim grotto]

Never heard of them

[mild folio]

Also what about the Speaker Woman

She not like Speaker we know

[trim grotto]

There were multiple Speakers in the past, to be fair.

But the entire thing is an alternate non canon universe
Things be wonky

[dim minnow]

If it's simply an alternate timeline (which do exist in Destiny), then is it really non-canon?

[trim grotto]

It's alternate universe, not merely a timeline

So yes

[dim minnow]

Did they not say it was an alter ate timeline though?

[trim grotto]

Universe

[dim minnow]

Could have sworn it was timeline

[outer dragon]

Whomst?

[outer dragon]

I am not acknowledging any lore from the mobile game TBH
This game already has deep and convoluted lore
We don't need "what if this instead"

[slim girder]

Slicing everything into pieces isn't it's goal. Yes it hates the traveler and so our collapse it truly did evil things but the witness wishes to preserve everything in a perfect stillness. Wouldn't make sense to obliterate everything

It "invites" beings into it's cause offering salvation and an end to suffering

[pure tree]

how much contact did the red legion remnants have with spider's crew that wasnt hostile post red war?

[dim minnow]

I believe Spider has made deals with pretty much everyone

from people in The Last City, The Awoken

I think maybe even some Hive at some point

so him making deals with Red Legion is possible

hell I think it might have actually happened

he did make contact with Caiatl not long after she first arrived in Sol too

[slim girder]

He can always talk his way out of anything and red legion remnants he'd definitely see as potential customers to take advantage of

[dim minnow]

rereading some Chosen lore

did Bungie drop the plot line where Spider wanted revenge on Crow?

[slim girder]

Something about spider I really want to see though is how he gets around. Like can he walk or as his name suggests is it the spider chair he sits and has suspended like a spider web?

[dim minnow]

he can walk around

[slim girder]

Ok then. The old plunder cutscenes made it look like he was always an eliksni who sat everywhere for some reason

Like maybe he was injured in some way

[dim minnow]

he's just a lardass

[slim girder]

Clearly.

He reminds me a lot of Krew from the Jak and Daxter games.

Like it's weird how similar they kind of are to the point I wouldn't be surprised if some inspiration was taken

[dim minnow]

I'm looking at their developer preview post and they clearly say alternate timeline

[trim grotto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQPomw5UBCU&t=74s "Destiny Rising is a new take on Destiny set in an alternative universe with its own timeline but true to core tenets and identity of Destiny."

https://tenor.com/view/thumbs-up-tom-gif-24052877

||i've waited for an excuse to use that gif for years||

[dim minnow]

still an alternate timeline though

and wouldn't each timeline really be its own universe though?

[trim grotto]

Dova come on

[dim minnow]

alright, what is the difference between an alternate universe and an alternate timeline?

[trim grotto]

not engaging with that one sorry dova
i'm going to go eat dinner and play a video game with my buddy

[dim minnow]

ok

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-beyondlight-dsc-deepstonecrypt-gif-22875804

me rn

[blazing wasp]

Not mael Tldr in D2 timeline is just past or future, doesn't have to be different, won't be different without intervention (like Elsie)
Alternate Universe is like alternative future/past/presence, can't access via time travel, not really touched upon in D2

[dim minnow]

but if multiple universes are a canon concept then it would be canon then?

[blazing wasp]

Different canons

If it's actually an existing alternative universe to D2 or not won't matter nor be shown

As the two universes won't interact in any canonical or meaningful way

[dim minnow]

until we unlock multiversal travel

[blazing wasp]

At the absolute most it'll be a dares thing

Where the canon nature of it means exactly nothing

[dim minnow]

Bungie cared to put Starhorse and Xur in the TFS finale inkblot cutscene so surely they must mean something

[trim grotto]

or it was funny

[blazing wasp]

It means its probably canon, and nothing more, it doesn't mean anything

Hell, starhorse was established years ago before dares

As a funny then

And as funny now

[dim minnow]

I don't actually think the Dark Horse is the same as Starhorse

Dark Horse is meant to reference the Dark Horse Nebula

[trim grotto]

it was the end of the 10 year anniversary of the game
the message was to the players as much as it was for the context of the game
it very honestly literally could have simply been added because it was funny

[sick yew]

"A horse..."

[blazing wasp]

Because its a fucking horse with a galaxy coated skin fur whatever

[blazing wasp]

Its ridiculous, if its real or not isnt important

Like guardians jumping off the tower for fun, dancing without music, being loot goblins

[dim minnow]

all lore is precious to me, no matter how ridiculous it is

[blazing wasp]

The point is that it doesn't matter if it's canon or not

[sick yew]

Thats the fun of it

[blazing wasp]

It's the type of thing that won't matter

[sick yew]

One moment youre reading about Clovis brays inhuman experiments and in the next its about Guardians being goofballs

[blazing wasp]

Like if we found out everyone in the last city has a mild vitamin d deficiency

Shit maybe they do maybe they dont

But it won't really matter

[twilit vapor]

just did vespers host and im a bit confused on who vesper central is/was/supposed to be?

[slim girder]

She's the golden age ai in charge of the station

Bit like failsafe but for Braytech

[twilit vapor]

so its not like clovis ai how clovie made an ai of himslef?

its purely just ai

?

[slim girder]

Yes. She's just an ai that oversees the station.

[twilit vapor]

oh okay

also whast up with the lightning? is it just radioactive arc energy or is it something else?

[slim girder]

It's the siphoning energy of the anomaly. Drawing so much power it's charging the arc energies colour and making it unstable

[twilit vapor]

so whats the anomaly?

[slim girder]

A gateway of some kind. At the end vesper central says a message was sent through and the destination was incomprehensible .

So we don't actually know where. But the energy around it was able to merge a fallen colony into a hivemind who were then forced to build the giant portal

[twilit vapor]

so is that why theres all those black cable things everywhere?

[slim girder]

Yes. That's the corruption of the anomaly.

[twilit vapor]

so i assume atraks also got corrupted?

[slim girder]

Yes and she's called the white captain in the lore for the dungeon

She's the puppeteer but the anomaly is what's controlling her

[twilit vapor]

is it possible the anomaly is related to the darkness in some way?

[slim girder]

Could be. We don't really know anything apart from the effects it had on the eliksni there. It looks vex so it's very possible they're related to it but there's nothing concrete about it.

[twilit vapor]

oh okay

[dim minnow]

it is worth noting that the anomaly still looks very vex-like

[twilit vapor]

i just got the vibe that it could be darkness cos the lightning turned orange/yellow and the clear look of corruption

[dim minnow]

also, note how early on in the dungeon we pass through an area containing these strange Vex cube things

there's supposed to be three, but one is missing

[dim minnow]

it looks more like a mix between solar and arc

it manifests as electricity like arc, but has the coloration of Solar and it leaves a flaming well behind

[slim girder]

I wouldn't be surprised if the vex are involved as we do see vex in the station as well.
But the corruption coming from it doesn't look like anything we've seen from the vex.

[twilit vapor]

yea thats true cos the dot effect is leaves looks solarlike

the vex we fight are technically only workers right? maybe this is a look at vex that are higher up?

[slim girder]

Could be. I think this is supposed to be our first hint on where things are going in the next saga

[jagged badge]

That’s a misconception

Based on a single line from Calus, who is by no means reliable

[dim minnow]

Vex don't percieve things the way we do

they probably don't see war the same way

[twilit vapor]

so it could be true but its based on extremely unreliable "evidence"

[dim minnow]

they see us as more like unruly overgrowth

[slim girder]

The vex don't hate us as enemies. It's the equivalent to cutting weeds out of a garden to them.
They don't look at us and feel emotion

[dim minnow]

they don't even perviece emotion

[twilit vapor]

but we confuse them dont we? because we cant be simulated?

[slim girder]

Saint 14 is an exception

[dim minnow]

they don't percieve morality

[dim minnow]

they do fear us because of it yes

or they at least feel a facisimile to it

[twilit vapor]

we could be considered a roadblock of sorts then

[slim girder]

They will do anything to see a future where they survive so anything they can do to get away from us with how unpredictable we are is a good thing to them

They want a certainty

We aren't that so it scares them

They would view us like a corruption to their perfect world because they have no way to calculate us.

[twilit vapor]

its fun being reminded how interesting the lore of this game is lol

so how did atraks get there? did she get revived somehow?

[slim girder]

Possibly just floated in space until she landed there. It's thought that during DSC we didn't kill the real atraks and instead killed a copy. So maybe the real one got sent out the airlock while we were just killing a left behind copy.

[twilit vapor]

when did this info come out?

[slim girder]

During pantheon when we were doing all the bosses.

Each week bungie put out some lore about each boss.

[twilit vapor]

oh thats cool

so theres a possibility that theres a copy of atraks' mind which i assume could bring her back? unless we kill the copy in the dungeon

[slim girder]

Yes. But I do believe that it was the real one this time.

[twilit vapor]

so shes dead for real :(

[slim girder]

A copy of her mind might still exist but and this is pure theorycrafting, she'd need a new body to come back

[twilit vapor]

i was just theorising that the copy was the one we kill in the dungeon and that the copy was a full physical copy, body and mind

but the copy could be just mind like it says

either way the fact that atraks exists as a character is so cool to me

[hollow fern]

Does this song match the session
https://youtu.be/dJUKp6oGuoA?si=wPcm_enB0GdcGY-p

The lyrics not the video

[lofty badge]

a little

how long does it take for fallen to make new servitors? like they say they are so weak because we have destoryed a lot of them but they keep throwing Servitors into combat situations with us

[slim girder]

Anyone have any lore on why the witness only started coming towards earth after the traveler broke its cage during the red war? Like after the collapse and savathun hiding the veil did the traveler somehow manage to push them back to outside of sol where they would stay dormant when it created the ghosts?

Just seems a bit confusing considering the witnesses prime target is the traveler and then it just sits on the outskirts of sol like they lost its position or something

[calm granite]

https://www.destinypedia.com/Collapse

it is explained here, sav tricked the witness into going back among the stars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kkoxMXm2Ew&t=906s

as explained here (note number 6)

(also the witness is an it)

[ember storm]

The Witness needed a traveler that was actually alive

By all accounts, following the collapse, the traveler just seemed dead

Witness had no way of knowing if or when it’d wake up so it just sat dormant

Red war was the traveler inadvertently announcing to the whole universe it was in fact alive and well

So the witness got back to business

[slim girder]

So savathun knew the traveler was still alive but just told the witness it was dead?

Or asleep

[ember storm]

She didn’t tell the witness anything

Savathun not only murdered nezarec to stave off the black fleet but also conducted a secret ritual in the traveler’s favor

When the witness tried to finish the job, the outcome appeared to be the traveler using the last of its power to make ghosts

The witness couldn’t do anything with a “dead” traveler so it just left and waited

[calm granite]

that's not what the worm seems to be saying

do you mean sav was mistaken in thinking she tricked the witness ?

[ember storm]

No

I’m saying she didn’t go up to the witness and lie

[slim girder]

Then what was this deception savathuns worm is talking about? I was confused when I heard that sentence. Only thing I can guess was the veil was hidden away and that was the thing she "wrapped in shadow"

[ember storm]

The witness didn’t know she was involved at all

That was the trick

[calm granite]

oh yeah ofc

[ember storm]

Savathun worked behind the scenes in favor of the traveler

Witness was befuddled and left

Nezarec got turned into a buffet for fallen pirates

Traveler took the big nap

[ember storm]

That was part of it

She killed nezarec and hid the veil, while also performing a ritual in the traveler’s favor

[calm granite]

her full trick was killing nez and hiding the veil and getting the witness the fuck outta the sol system

[slim girder]

What was the ritual?

[ember storm]

The osmiom whatever ghost shell details how she disguised herself and visited golden age humanity families to make them unwittingly chant hive spells when the collapse was happening

We don’t know exactly what it did but we know that the witness wouldn’t have just left if it knew the traveler was ok

We’ve got a Savathun spell in progress as the traveler and black fleet duke it out, traveler ending up incapacitated, and the black fleet leaving

Savathun’s involvement is why it ended that way

[slim girder]

So were savathun and nezarec sent ahead of the witness? The whole scenario to me looks like the witness stayed on the sidelines until it had a clear path to the traveler but obviously savathun and nezarec started fighting each other..

[ember storm]

Savathun was not sent

she just "nah imma do my own thing" and did her own thing

Nezarec was leading the charge because he was an actual disciple

Savathun was not

the witness would've thought she was just stuck in her throne world listening to rhulk yapping about THE UPENDED

[slim girder]

Idk just seems a bit strange because even with the traveler being incapacitated the witness up and leaving when it's right there feels like a plot hole. It's asleep, not dead and even if it was, the witness hating it with every bit of it's being sounds to me like it would make sure it was actually dead.

[ember storm]

nezarec was also killed and the veil was hidden away

it had literally zero power to complete the one thing it was created to do

the witness is all about efficiency, it wants to "save" the universe

it was perfectly capable and willing to just wait until the opportunity presented itself

the traveler being at full power again was confirmation things could continue as planned

[slim girder]

The witness was pretty efficient in lightfall aside from calus messing around. But when it arrived at earth it seemingly had no resistance at all.

[ember storm]

i dont know what you mean

[slim girder]

It didn't have the help of nezarec. And yet it floated up to the traveler with next to no issues.
Only thing it was missing was the veil.

And weirdly it was telling calus to destroy the veil

[ember storm]

it didn't need nezarec's help

nezarec was sent to clean house and get the veil to the traveler

the witness would've just gone in and connected the two afterward

nez was also the only active disciple actually working towards the witness' interests that wasnt a meathead failure

it trusted him and he ended up dead with the veil completely lost

guardians being created was an entirely new thing

nothing had ever existed in the same capacity

[slim elk]

One thing to note is the Witness could be more efficient in dealing with the Traveler..
But it's spiteful and wants it and the races the Traveler is with to suffer

[ember storm]

it's perfectly reasonable for the witness to just sit back and observe before making any moves

the traveler waking up was a literal wakeup call that the plan had to be set in motion

plus, the witness wanted to convince us it was right

more than anything it wanted to convince the traveler's own creations that it was flawed

[fresh zephyr]

Bro just threw bag

[slim elk]

Yep. One last twist of the knife

[fresh zephyr]

Could have nukes the whole solar system

Nuked

And got in

[ember storm]

are you like

missing the whole point

[fresh zephyr]

Of what

He wanted us to suffer

[ember storm]

the witness faced zero difficulty when it actually came to the system

[fresh zephyr]

Ik

[slim girder]

This bit I know. It wanted to be evil and make us see the traveler as a failure that did nothing to help us

[fresh zephyr]

And he threw the bag

[ember storm]

it killed everything in its way and immediately incapacitated the traveler

it didnt need to or want to kill us at the time

[fresh zephyr]

Yes and then he could have nuked us all

[ember storm]

it wants to "save" everyone

nuking is not the point

[fresh zephyr]

He threw

[slim elk]

"Salvation"

[ember storm]

what villain didnt

[fresh zephyr]

Nimbus

[ember storm]

that doesnt even make sense as a joke

[fresh zephyr]

Ik

Where is the last city

[ember storm]

that's complimenting nimbus as a well written character

[fresh zephyr]

On earth

[ember storm]

south america

[fresh zephyr]

What country

[slim elk]

What I'm interested in is the time-frame of the Collapse, how long it actually lasted

[fresh zephyr]

Wow

[slim elk]

Going by Fallen lore, it's heavily implied London survived intact until the Fallen arrived

[fresh zephyr]

LETS GOOO

[ember storm]

well the traveler wasnt hanging around earth when it went down

the last place it was touching before the collapse was Io

[slim elk]

And evidence indicates the Witness may have wrecked it over Europe

(EDZ)

[ember storm]

if the traveler was in space the shard would've just fell in the atmosphere

that isnt indicative of the actual location

[slim elk]

It does actually
It means when the Pyramids showed the Traveler moved to cover humanity on earth from Io

[ember storm]

and did nothing to help the countless colonies in between io and earth?

[slim elk]

Probably

Or they were already dead

(See the Titan colony that got wrecked in a giant wave)

[ember storm]

that's beyond io

[slim elk]

Exactly my point

[ember storm]

the traveler never touched it at all

[jagged badge]

We don’t know precisely

[ember storm]

i'm saying in between io and earth

yknow, mars, the moon, venus

theyre all dead

[fresh zephyr]

I have a question

[ember storm]

youre saying the traveler just made a beeline to sweden?

[fresh zephyr]

The cabal home planet is defos not in our system

[jagged badge]

Correct

[ember storm]

none of the aliens come from our system

except technically awoken maybe

depends on how you categorize them

[slim elk]

Earth is where the most of humanity would be present.. thus the best place to try and defend

[fresh zephyr]

They got here in their ships. Hence they must have light speed travel or something. Why don't we take their ships and leave the system

[slim elk]

A last stand

[jagged badge]

For why?

[ember storm]

for who

[slim elk]

Already did.
Dead Orbit GTFO years ago lol

[fresh zephyr]

Idk go out and explore like we gonna do in next expansion

[fresh zephyr]

Did they?

They fully left

[slim elk]

Season of the Splicer

[fresh zephyr]

Also why did bungie retcon the whole faction shit

I feel like a season about some political issues in the tower would be fire

[ember storm]

what retcon

[slim elk]

The factions led by FWC tried to pull a coup, they failed and all the traitors panicked
Fled the system before we could line them up for the firing squad

[jagged badge]

Humanity is relegated to one city that’s (sorta) safe. There’s never been a reason to leave the system before

[fresh zephyr]

I feel like they just never mention factions

[ember storm]

they literally all left the tower because of political issues

[jagged badge]

When pressed on all sides by our enemies, defending our home and the one entity who could really help us

[ember storm]

Lakshmi was killed by vex because she tried using vex tech to commit genocide on all of house light

[fresh zephyr]

Nah but like I want actual political issues and I wanna see the coups

[ember storm]

New Monarchy was in on the plan and fled

DO just left because theyre nerds

[fresh zephyr]

True

Okay what. About

The 9

Where they at

[ember storm]

where they've always been

[fresh zephyr]

Where

[ember storm]

nonexistent in normal space

screwing around doing nothing

[fresh zephyr]

Who's that Orin dude

[ember storm]

they've never been important to the plot

[ember storm]

she doesnt have a life

[fresh zephyr]

Wdym

[ember storm]

unless the nine specifically tell her to do something she's not going to be anywhere

her life is forfeit to the nine

[fresh zephyr]

So yk in prophecy why was she there

[ember storm]

if they have something they actually want they send her

[fresh zephyr]

What even was prophecy about

[ember storm]

Xur is just a basic "yeah we exist hi"

[ember storm]

we contacted them specifically to ask about light/darkness

their response was that they didnt know really and just see them the same way

because they are not beings with humanity or morals

[fresh zephyr]

Oh 💀

Okay so

Are they like super powerful or something

[ember storm]

no

[fresh zephyr]

Like more powerful then witness beat

[slim elk]

They be dark matter

[ember storm]

best they can do is fuck with some broadcast feeds

they are literally sentient space dust

[fresh zephyr]

Wait what

Oh

[ember storm]

they cant do anything important

[fresh zephyr]

WHAT

I thought it was like a council of 9 beings or something shi

Okay so

How did we first find out about them

[ember storm]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/the-declaration#book-dust

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/the-nine#book-dust

they contacted us first

prinarily through Xur

[fresh zephyr]

Saying what

Wassup homiea

[ember storm]

he literally just showed up some day speaking about the Nine

people didnt get rid of him because he had gifts

that was it

[fresh zephyr]

Ohhh

[ember storm]

we didnt know anything about them or their goals until season of the drifter, really

[jagged badge]

Orin whacked him with a hammer ‘cause he scared her

Which is why he’s hunched over

[ember storm]

also they're indirectly responsible for the red war

and also Skolas

[jagged badge]

His spine got royally fucked by that

[ember storm]

so there's that

[fresh zephyr]

How

[ember storm]

basically their deal is they want to have an existence beyond our lives existing

because if we die they just cease to exist

[fresh zephyr]

Oh what why

[ember storm]

they have different opinions for how that should happen

[ember storm]

read the entries i sent

[fresh zephyr]

Bet

[slim elk]

I don't think they ever explained why the Nine killed Sjur though

[ember storm]

anyway one of them just on a whim basically went "what if the guardians got screwed up"

[fresh zephyr]

Who's sjur

Bro wanted character development

[ember storm]

so they destroyed our satellite surveillance network right before the red legion hit us

which let ghaul sneak up on us

[fresh zephyr]

What

[ember storm]

opening to red war, Ikora goes "we have no satellite feeds anymore" and we dont see the fleet of cabal until they're literally right in the city

that was the nine's fault

[fresh zephyr]

So in the story rn

Are we cool w them

Or they enemies

[ember storm]

they just bum around

like i said, not plot relevant

they dont have any reason to kill us so we dont fight them

[fresh zephyr]

I see

[ember storm]

but they're also not really helpful in any way

Xur just peddles stuff to remind us they exist

[slim girder]

The nine just watch us to see what we do. Not out of malicious intent though. It's just what they do

We could probably go visit them even in the drifters haul.

[ember storm]

they'd probably just stare until we left

[fresh zephyr]

I see

[odd flicker]

So, for the Anomaly in Vesper's, it's siphoning energy from something, right?

[slim girder]

The sun yes

[odd flicker]

And it successfuly did that by the end of the dungeon, right?

[jagged badge]

Did they say that’s the sun?

[odd flicker]

Because in the final boss area if you turn around that big bright spot was very diminished.

And if it's the sun that would be really bad lol.

Wait there's no way that's the sun.

[slim girder]

No but I've been hearing a lot of people saying that it's the sun just from looking at it during the dungeon. Big bright orange star

[odd flicker]

Yeah but the sun is way further into the galaxy.

Europa is on Jupiter.

Or well, orbiting.

[jagged badge]

There’s no other nearby stars it could be either ofc so I think people are wrong there

[odd flicker]

Maybe it's just a cosmic storm?

Regardless though, what do y'all think this ties into? I doubt it's Vex related, their process of assimilation is way neater, and doesn't have as much of a haunting aspect as this techno ghost seems to have.

Something Darkness related? All those minds are described as working in unison towards building the anomaly, right?

[slim girder]

I don't think distance really matters for it to siphon energy. I mean the veil shot a beam all the way from Neptune to earth. This anomaly pulling energy from less distance seems plausible to me.

[odd flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/listen-that-doesnt-count-not-fair-that-doesnt-matter-steve-harrington-joe-keery-gif-14576530

I actually think it doesn't though, just because the Veil thing was space magic mumbo jumbo from the most powerful entity we had ever encountered by far.

This is a random shipshod machine made by a bunch of zoinked out Eliksni.

Though in all fairness Neptune to Earth is like 2 billion miles, Jupiter to the sun is a much shorter distance, I'll agree there.

I just wanna know more about this corrupted Arc energy.

[slim girder]

Best guess from what's been said is that so much energy is being siphoned that it's changing the properties of the arc energy. To the point it's behaving like solar and arc put together.

There is another theory I have but I need actual confirmation that is actually the sun that it's siphoning from. I believe it is but the confirmation would be nice.

[odd flicker]

The only other reason I don't think it's the sun is that, by the end of the dungeon, the thing that it was siphoning from looks like it's been dimmed and burned out.

And if that was our sun then Earth is just done lol.

[slim girder]

The lore for the station talks about a technician who's job it is to repair the solar panels for the station. Also by the end of the dungeon we shut down the whole operation of it siphoning energy it looks like. So it won't be a threat for now..

[odd flicker]

We do shut it down, but I mean that it looks burned out, like it has mostly been siphoned already.

[lofty badge]

Could the anomaly in the station be tied to the the winnower perhaps?

or mabye not since

idk if Bungie will make the the winnower a villian XD

it might just be chilling somewhere watching us and going

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-squarepants-patrick-star-im-rooting-for-you-cheer-cheering-gif-16130075

[dim minnow]

When Bungie was talking about Heresy, they were mentioning something about an eldritch entity

[lofty badge]

👀

Evaze did also just drop a new lore vid

i hope said entity is a new unkown foe

[blazing wasp]

i kinda doubt the winnower will be a villain

[blazing wasp]

i advise you to take their theories with a grain of salt given evaze's uh

history with these

[lofty badge]

idk if its a thorey vid

lol

[blazing wasp]

(im gonna make fun of him for the fucking calus = witness = winnower thing for as long as i can ok)

[lofty badge]

[blazing wasp]

Its my interpretation that they're either contempt with things, or believes themselves to be so inevitable that any action is not needed

[odd flicker]

Content?

[blazing wasp]

yea that

[odd flicker]

Agreed.

[eager trout]

YO STASIS SHADER

[quiet yacht]

Hey with the new dungeon, the energy we kept on seeing with the anomaly
Could it be the next darkness subclass
because it’s described as arc but corrupted

[dim minnow]

it looks a lot like Arc mixed with Solar

[quiet yacht]

Personally, I wouldn’t not like it as the next darkness class

But the energy was nothing we have
before

[lofty badge]

perhaps a third form of cosmic enegery?

that was formed by what ever the light and dark did to create the universe?

[eager trout]

But first we'd need another Darkness subclass

Then we can go onto a third thing, like maybe a sort of in-between, or something you get by mixing darkness and light

[ember storm]

[trim grotto]

Imagine

[modern lodge]

I want all the lore from vespers host

[remote sky]

Are non human guardians possible? Do we know? Canine, Eliksni, hell, even Amoeba?

Brain eating amoeba lightbearer

[trim grotto]

Well, there are the Hive.

It's possible, but as far as I've interpreted, the Hive were chosen, like Humanity was. Others have not been.

[remote sky]

How do I forget these things

I fight em like.. every six gambit matches 😭

[warm acorn]

Lmao

[dim minnow]

As far as we know, only Human and Hive

[warm acorn]

Exos and awoken are non human tho?

Or are we considering awoken and exos to be human?

[dim minnow]

I would

[warm acorn]

Eh

[dim minnow]

Exos are a human mind in a mechanical body

[warm acorn]

Correct

Awoken aren’t human though

[dim minnow]

Awoken are like a different race

[warm acorn]

They’re aliens

[dim minnow]

They came from humans

I wouldn't consider them alien

[warm acorn]

Are they native to earth?

Is there home planet earth?

[dim minnow]

Does someone have to be born on Earth to be human?

Surely many humans during the Golden Age were born on other planets.

Reminder that the firstborn Awoken were all human

Then they were o literate and reborn as the first Awoken

[warm acorn]

They’d be extraterrestrial if not

[dim minnow]

So are you saying that a human born on Mars is not human?

[warm acorn]

Hmm fair

Ig since they still originate from earth

[dim minnow]

Awoken would still originate from Earth too

At least a majority if the firstborn would

[warm acorn]

Ye

But calling awoken and exos humans doesn’t make logical sense

[dim minnow]

Also to point out, Awoken were not created naturally

They were the result of a paracausal calamity

[dim minnow]

Human mind though

[warm acorn]

Correct, but that doesn’t make something human

[dim minnow]

A human mind doesn't stop being a human mind even when you put it in a robotic body

[warm acorn]

If a human conscious is uploaded into a computer and is now an AI, they aren’t a human

Lol

[dim minnow]

But there is a difference

Between AI and Exo

[warm acorn]

An Exo is a human conscious uploaded to a computer with a robot body

[dim minnow]

No, not to a computer

To an exo body

[warm acorn]

Humans have 206 bones, humans have muscles, bones, ligaments, tendons

So like

An Exo isn’t a human

[dim minnow]

Someone with an amputated arms isn't human then?

[warm acorn]

Hence why when you create your character at the beginning of destiny you have the option of human, awoken, or exo

[warm acorn]

They’re a cyborg.

[dim minnow]

Would an exo not be then as well?

[warm acorn]

An Exo has no physical human elements left of them

Nope

Cause there’s no physical human element

[dim minnow]

The body is made to imitate a human's

[warm acorn]

Exos have no organic parts t

They are fully mechanical

Therefore they are not a cyborg

[dim minnow]

Yet they still feel

[warm acorn]

That doesn’t mean they’re made of organic material lol

[dim minnow]

They still think

[warm acorn]

Correct

Modern day computers think

Other animals think

Doesn’t make them humans

They are a robot with a human uploaded mind

Except not even cause Atraks exists

So not all exos derive from humans

[dim minnow]

Atraks is merely an exo of another species

[warm acorn]

Which makes Atraks not a fallen

/eliksni

[dim minnow]

Doesn't the game co sider Awoken and Exo to be different races?

[warm acorn]

Yes

Those are your choices when making a character

[trim grotto]

The Traveler and the Ghosts do. It isn't about your flesh and blood, it's about your mind.

Why are Exo considered to be under the human umbrella? Same reason that Lord Felwinter was. The mind is human - or in his case, human enough.

[dim minnow]

The term "race" also means that they are the same species right?

[warm acorn]

Not always. Depends on the context of the term.

[trim grotto]

I imagine there are semantics you could apply in either case

[warm acorn]

Fallen are an enemy race

[heady monolith]

*eliksni

[warm acorn]

Yes ty

[ember storm]

Fallen are an enemy race technically

We don’t call our Eliksni allies fallen for that reason

[dim minnow]

Reminds me, what are House Dusk doing rn

Since it seems like what's left of Salvation are either joining us or are being claimed by Fikrul

Are they gearing up to be the new main Fallen enemy?

[sudden sinew]

I don’t think bungie remembers house dusk lol

Otherwise they’re just barely held together remnants

[dim minnow]

They do

According to TFS lost Ghost quest, House Dusk seems to be regaining some traction

And they were present in Echoes

[sudden sinew]

How? They have no leadership, and most of their members splintered off into everywhere else

[dim minnow]

Maybe they got a new leader hiding in the shadows

[sudden sinew]

I doubt it, if there are they’re the kell of random stragglers

[dim minnow]

Maybe whoever is Kell of kells will take over

Eramis if she gets out?

Mithrax if the curse causes him to lose it?

[ember storm]

Isn’t the point of them that they have no leadership

They’re essentially just nomads picking at whatever scraps they can

Which unironically is a better survival strategy than anything Salvation does

They really try not to put targets on their backs, we just happen to run into them so we fight because they’re pirates

They’re not doomer enough to join salvation but they don’t care enough to start fresh with light

They’re just your good old fashion scallywags

[sudden sinew]

Yeah, basically just random criminals doing their own thing. Funny enough house dusk was made by uldren sov though

[sudden sinew]

It could be Craask, Kell of Kings. He was only implied to have been killed, with his four arms being docked and left for dead, but not explicitly said that he was killed.

[trim grotto]

Variks sighed.

"King Kell is gone, Kell-Maker. Dead at the hands of that insane Archon, Fikrul, and some Awoken vagabond he calls 'Father.' What remains of the Kings huddles now in the dead zones of Earth, under the shadow of the Great Machine's Shard. I expect my four bales in—"

Variks killed the feed.```

[warm acorn]

So like what’s the lore behind this new tomb of elders

[trim grotto]

Well as far as I know, we only know it exists because of the ingredients bag

It hasn't actually ever been mentioned

[ember storm]

Variks left his sticky note on the desk and we stole it

It would be funny if it was literally just the prison having continued going to shit since Forsaken and the awoken are finally giving the go ahead for us to just exterminate the roaches (scorn)

[sudden sinew]

Eh, still could be alive. Might be believed to be dead, but could still make a surprise appearance.

[trim grotto]

Given the complete lack of any supporting evidence or even mention, I would certainly consider it to be a surprise.

[sudden sinew]

That’s what would make it fun. Behold, you get to fight the armless fallen

[ember storm]

A funnier idea would be that fallen being turned into a wrathborn and just being a normal captain model

[sudden sinew]

Yeah like an easter egg named fallen

[ember storm]

With the inadvertent effect of incredible body horror from the fact they sprouted 4 additional arms

[sudden sinew]

Nah what

Lmao

[ember storm]

That’s what wrathborn do given enough time

The infection transforms their bodies too

Cabal growing tentacles and teeth stomach, that kind of stuff

Also the fact that ai can become wrathborn is incredibly disturbing

[sudden sinew]

The flood makes a return

[ember storm]

Clovis got afflicted with it once and it was never mentioned again

[dim minnow]

I think Clovis was saved before it actually got him

[slim girder]

Wonder what clovis is thinking about rn.

Wonder if he possilbly knows about the vesper station

[frigid sparrow]

whether or not he knows probably doesn't matter much

if he was somehow notified of the vesper station takeover he sure as shit isn't telling us what's going on over there if we were to grill him on it

and if he only found out about the station's situation with house salvation after we come to him about it? he'd probably be even less likely to talk about it lmao

Would probably say some shit like "oh, the anomaly? If you want to know what it's about, I suggest you drive a ship right into it and come back with the results"

[slim girder]

He might have something to say if he knows that the ai there has now had her locks removed that Clovis placed on her. Just like Rasputin he doesn't like the ai to have any kind of capacity to be more human or i guess understanding of humans. Even its name astrea is hidden.

[frigid sparrow]

Yeah, that "something to say" would be "what the FUCK did you guys do to my ai AGAIN"

[slim girder]

Astrea would probably be just as furious learning a piece of Clovis was still alive

Rasputin, soteria and I'm sure failsafe didn't like Clovis but astrea truly seems to hate him.

[modern lodge]

Who is astrea?

[slim girder]

The ai from vesper station. That's her real name.

[sick yew]

I didn't really pay attention to most of the dialogue
How sentient is she compared to some of the other Ais we know such as Failsafe or Raspy

[slim girder]

Just as sentient. Clovis just had a lot of locks placed on her so she did have some limits to certain actions. She's very angry at Clovis but wants to find out everything that happened which we help her do by removing the locks I mentioned.

She also calls soteria her sister

[sick yew]

Hm
Truth be told the only lore I've read on the dungeon so far was from the armor pieces which detail some of the events leading up to the events from the perspective of an Eliksni dreg

She was only mentioned in the sense that she apparently spoke sometimes via the speakers but what exactly is never said as the dreg in question just didn't give a fuck

[slim girder]

Theres 2 stories to the dungeon which I think is pretty cool.

The events leading to it and now the aftermath with us helping astrea.

[sick yew]

Is she a bit confused tho? Like ain't no way she's still talking in her standard protocol messages after all these hundreds of years of just sitting idle

[slim girder]

Yes. She is confused but as we unlock the messages during the quest for the dungeon she starts to learn more and more before finally having all of the locks removed and gaining full access. She even says at the end "This is all of me now"

At the start she sounds like the kind of ai who can only make alerts and messages to the crew but now she can care about her crew and experience things like anger at Clovis

[sick yew]

Is she still in the station post quest or does she just hop off into cyberspace or whatever

[slim girder]

She's still there

She said she wanted to be alone and then threatened spider before giving us a gift as thanks

[sick yew]

You think she'll ever return in some way?

What if we hook her up to Failsafes servers

Ai besties

[slim girder]

I think there's a chance. Though maybe she's content just hanging out with the anomaly and learning more about it.

[sick yew]

The anomaly was what again? Vex shit right

[slim girder]

A gateway.

[sick yew]

To where?

[slim girder]

Somewhere incomprehensible. A message was sent through but it was wiped before it could be copied and then a response came back but the only readable thing about it was "Hello world"

[sick yew]

Hm

Maybe it'll be involved with Frontiers
One can only wonder

[slim girder]

Astrea didn't know because at the time her locks forbid her from knowing. She says she barely had clearance to even know a message was even sent.

[sick yew]

I see

And was the destruction caused simply by bits of the Morning Star crashing into it or was that from the collapse

[slim girder]

The morning star and probably the brainwashed eliksni scraping it for parts.
She even asks if a piece of it was in her hull and hoped Clovis was amongst that wreckage

[sick yew]

That brainwashing stuff

What was that about anyway

[slim girder]

No idea. Just a signal that merges minds together that a selected "puppeteer" then guides. Atraks comments about their minds and limbs being one. The anomaly then compelled them to build it.

[sick yew]

That's what I read too

It almost reminded me of how uuuuuh what's his name from Crown of Sorrow felt when they gave him the crown

[slim girder]

We probably won't know until later down the line I think. Possibly in this episode or even in Heresy. But I think this is supposed to be our first look at where things could be going in the future and a look at the new threat even.

[ruby pivot]

oh thank god, i thought you will start the mars speech

[slim girder]

But bungie for good reason is just teasing us with this dungeon lore and then we'll just have to wait until it becomes relevant again.

[jagged badge]

Whether we wanted it or not

[ruby pivot]

NO!

i hear that when a friend of mine vc me as his intro

1st few times hearing it is interesting but overtime i just wanna plug my ears

[trim grotto]

Yeah it's really annoying that people keep saying it whether you wanted it or not

But I guess that's what happens when you step into a war with the Cabal on Mars

[ruby pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/akira-leave-me-alone-leave-me-alone-meme-gif-6420351794930725971

[odd flicker]

That's my team's callouts for Atheon

Whether is front left, not is back right.

[frigid sparrow]

If you're sick of hearing it so much, then maybe we could start by taking out their command, one by one. Valus Ta'aurc.

[slim girder]

Wonder what happened to the siege dancers.
Valus Ta'aurc commanded them from an imperial land tank outside of rubicon and was well protected. But with the right team we punched through those defences, took the beast out and broke their grip on freehold.

Guess they all folded into the red legion, caityls empire or the shadow legion.

[frigid sparrow]

The Cabal. War, wanted or not, is all they understand. And so we taught them. Sand Eaters… scattered. Dust Giants… felled. Ice Reapers… buried. Siege Dancers… broken. Until we grew complacent… and Ghaul drove a blade between our ribs.

From season of the chosen

[empty fern]

Get power struggled bozo

[frigid sparrow]

So it looks like the group was just entirely vanquished rather than subsumed into the greater cabal empires like the blood guard was with caiatl's arrival (or if there are any surviving members then it doesn't really matter)

[lofty badge]

bro why we not using one of these to help fight against the Revenant scorn? i mean house light got at least one big one

[trim grotto]

Generally speaking, the remnants were absorbed into the Red Legion.

[trim grotto]

Rare and expensive and we're far more mobile and just as destructive

[frigid sparrow]

Mithrax just wanted to look cool and smash the fuck out of that one eliksni

[lofty badge]

😔

i pray one day we can have ingame combat pets

imagine having a cabal war hound running around following you

[frigid sparrow]

Soul warlocks:

[lofty badge]

permanant ones

[frigid sparrow]

Your war hound isn't gonna be so permanent after getting dunked on by a supplicant

[lofty badge]

stick a turrent on it and said supplicant gonna be fucked

but nah

😔

[frigid sparrow]

If something like that worked the cabal would've done it years ago

[lofty badge]

Mabye

[warm acorn]

Supplicant army

What are supplicants?

Like are they totally different than harpies?

And what makes the consecrated mind different looking than a normal harpy

[ember storm]

They just exist as suicide units

They’re harpy chassis because those are quick and mobile

They’re specifically designed for that one purpose

[ember storm]

Overexposure to the dissenter statue warped its body

[warm acorn]

Oh… well ok💀

Just suicide defense units

Wild

[warm acorn]

Very interesting

What about the one in spire of the watcher

[ember storm]

That’s from the same vex unit

The sol divisive

They worship darkness and hang around the black garden

Where the dissenter statue is

[warm acorn]

O ok gotcha

[warm acorn]

Ty for the interesting lore

[fading basin]

How long ago was the warlord era?

[dapper moss]

hundreds if not thousands of years ago

[fading basin]

Thanks

[tawdry mauve]

defo thousands lol

[jagged badge]

Not thousands

Probably around 500 years before present Destiny is when the City Age would have started to come about

Warlords still persisted into that age too, mind

As we can see from the lore of Warlord’s Ruin

And Naeem being there after the Great Ahamkara Hunt but not being a Guardian

[dapper moss]

i mean 500-1000 years ago is when it ENDED

it started after the collapse which was a very very long time ago

[jagged badge]

Not thousands of years ago though

To my understanding anyway

[slim elk]

We could get a solid time scale from Neomuna

But Bungie won't allow that

[tawdry mauve]

i mean

1001 years is still in the "thousands"

its not a thousand

[jagged badge]

Thousands implies 2000+ imo

Multiple thousands, not a thousand and a bit

[warm acorn]

Why not say one thousand years ago?

[lofty badge]

Mithrax did say the fallen did roam the stars for thousands of years after Riis fell

but then again fallen can also live for thousands of years

like Variks and Eramis are both older then mankind's golden age

[ruby pivot]

[frigid sparrow]

.... huh. One of the bosses in overthrow is subtitled "Star-Eater." Wonder if he has any connection to the star-eater scales, which would be weird since it's a lucent knight guardian, which take after titans

(not that the lightbearing hive were around at that time, but nonetheless)

[trim grotto]

If it is in the thousands, it is 1000+. If it is just thousands, as in the term thousands of years, it is 2000+.

[slim elk]

In regards to the Fallen, we also dont know just how long humanitys golden age actually was

We do know there was some massive political shifts in the world

"North American Empire"

[eager trout]

https://youtu.be/M9y-Ay16100?si=5bPhA9sws5GFq0DL

[eager trout]

Disney finally took over

[hard oak]

Never got into the lore side of destiny but I always thought the neomunu were dope

[trim grotto]

Neomuni. Very cool concept. I'd argue it's underused so far, but hopefully we'll see them grow in this new era of Destiny.

[hard oak]

Has one of the best campaign maps imp

And you actually know why your fighting for them

[hollow drum]

honestly why did we never see one in excision helping

[dim minnow]

best they can do is SCUR-V and Halsiks

couldn't even bring the Skiffblades alomng could they

[frozen pawn]

anyone has any ideal how Nezzy's curse work? just curious

[north heath]

scur-v my goat 🗣️🔥

[slim girder]

It's not clear but it looks like at least in my opinion that mithrax will either go mad from nightmares or it might be the case nezarec can use his body to manifest himself and live on. The acolytes of nezarec also went mad due to nightmares and nezarec told us he could never truly die and would always be in our nightmares.

[sick yew]

Scur-V should have been with us when we went against Reniks

[lofty badge]

how long does it take for fallen to make new servitors? like they say they are so weak because we have destoryed a lot of them but they keep throwing Servitors into combat situations with us

[sick yew]

Gameplay =/= lore

keep that in mind

But I dont think there is much known on what it takes to construct a Servitor
What seems to be a slight issue is that the knowledge on how to make them is slowly but surely dwindling
It is mentioned in the loretabs of the new Vespers host armor pieces that they didnt have many Eliksni with them that had the knowledge on coding Servitors

And we've known for a while that splicers are also kind of an almost extinct part of Eliksni culture

So its probably not out of the question that with how fractured the Eliksni are that they are slowly but surely losing knowledge

[lofty badge]

ah

[halcyon umbra]

What's the deal with mithrax

[sick yew]

He's a bit ill rn

[halcyon umbra]

Why

Also who killed his mom!

[sick yew]

Back in season of uuuuuh plunder he came into contact with Nezzys artifacts and it seems they were not too healthy for him

[halcyon umbra]

Oh

[sick yew]

Uh some Eliksni we end up killing in the Final Shape post campaign missions

[halcyon umbra]

Hmm

[sick yew]

Forgot their name

[halcyon umbra]

I don't recall :(

[sick yew]

It wasn't hugely important

[halcyon umbra]

It is to me :,(

Mithrax mom god murdered

[sick yew]

Just a little mini story that went along with us collecting more prismatic items

[sick yew]

Shit happened a long ass time ago

[halcyon umbra]

Oh

Hmmm

[elder echo]

Warframe is better

[lofty badge]

Korha

you can repeat the mission

[lofty badge]

https://tenor.com/view/world-of-warcraft-saurfang-i-didnt-ask-gif-14151369

also this is the lore channel

[jagged badge]

[sick yew]

Ah right
No real reason to do that tho

[lofty badge]

i mean sometimes its just fun to replay story missions just to kill stuff

[sick yew]

I used to do that when heroic story missions were a thing back pre Beyond Light

I ran the red war mission on the Almighty many many times

[lofty badge]

i miss red war

[sick yew]

I dont

It was boring

[blazing wasp]

I only miss the skybox of the final mission

thats uh

yeah no thats it

the final boss was shit

[sick yew]

The Almighty mission also looked very cool

But that really was it

[slim girder]

I like rerunning legendary campaign missions because I can take photos during cutscenes.

[red edge]

So more important than anything in Vesper's Host:

||Can Failsafe finally have a friend that's just like her? Another self-aware AI bound by unfortunate circumstance?||

[lofty badge]

i would say yes

[fresh zephyr]

Is there a lore reason to why Darci is so bad

[fast tapir]

did they join just to say this and leave right after?

[ember storm]

Clovis

[lofty badge]

yes

[lofty badge]

who is Darci again

[trim grotto]

DARCI, the Exotic sniper rifle.

Has an AI built into it.

[lofty badge]

ah

[eager trout]

Skill issue

[north heath]

mmm yummy darci yes mm

[vast lance]

who/what is the statue in europa pyramids?

[ember storm]

We call them Dissenters now because that’s what they became in final shape

The veiled statues have been in basically every pyramid related context

Essentially they’re just depicting what the precursors wore as they did the ritual to become the witness

There’s no particular reason they’re feminine figures, that’s just how the og concept art was before the story was properly written

[eager trout]

What

[north heath]

i ate darci

[eager trout]

What

[loud rover]

they eated it

[fast tapir]

with a spork

[ornate pike]

It would be fascinating if the being within Maya's Echo is the cause of Vesper's host and Bungie is setting up for the vex to be remade as an emotional hive mind made of messy wires and orange lighting

[fresh zephyr]

is there any lore reason for why guardians cant swim

[ember storm]

They can, yours is just particularly bad at it

[dim minnow]

Vesper's Host seems to be caused by something else

[fresh zephyr]

Ah ok that makes sense

We can breath in space and singlehandedly kill gods but we can't swim

[dull raft]

because we carry our vaults on our persons, too much weight

[trim grotto]

Not really. Might've never learned (since we lose our memories when first resurrected), might be carrying too much gear.

[eager trout]

Probably because armor and weapons are heavy

[ember storm]

Survive about 30 seconds submerged in liquid methane, die as soon as we make contact with a shallow European pond

[tough kettle]

why do exo guardians still die instantly in water if they can survive without oxygen

[trim grotto]

No lore for that one friend

[dim minnow]

according to a lore entry from Echoes, Guardians can swim

[dim minnow]

Exos can actually swim

us dying when submerged in water is purely a gameplay thing

[trim grotto]

More referring to our player but yeah

[sleek matrix]

Were God killers

Ofc we can swim

[tough kettle]

i know

i HATE when water kills you in video games

[eager trout]

Kill zone

[eager trout]

Ah yes, playing Dictionary 2

[slim girder]

@trim grotto have you watched byfs video on vespers host? That lore entry that everyone has apparently missed is a little hilarious to me given how it's just sitting right in the open.

https://youtu.be/GUjBoQtZ9cI?feature=shared

The message coming through the anomaly is very interesting and I'm just as surprised no one found it when it was just sitting where it was.

[ruby pivot]

mine

[trim grotto]

i don't watch byf

[slim girder]

Even if you don't it still makes some interesting points about the lore. I've been through the dungeon a few times now myself but his video has given me some thoughts about it.

[ember storm]

It’s ok nobody likes listening to their own voice recordings

[fresh zephyr]

This image is what happens when I see a good enough meme

Do we know who or what the nine are or are they still a mystery

Yes

I had a whole convo about this in this chat a few days ago

Should be able to scroll up

Some interesting answers

[blazing wasp]

Tldr A mix of both

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-dust
This lore book has your answers. It's a fantastic read, so I recommend the entire thing, but if you'd rather just have the simple answer and move on, check the specific entry The Nine within the link.

[desert iris]

How bad of a person do you have to be where your entire family, 2 ai’s you coded, and the ishtar collective all hate you

Clovis shot himself in the foot so many times like a dumbass and i think its funny

[sudden sinew]

He didn’t have any remorse when his son died 💀

[desert iris]

why dont we just nuke his ai already

I dont think banshee is being held hostage by a brain link where killing the ai kills him or something

[trim grotto]

Banshee is fine, as far as we know.

I expect the Vanguard don't want to kill a rare link to the Golden Age, and one of the smartest men from it, despite how despicable he is.

[empty fern]

First of all (love signalis pfp)
Secondly, where are we gonna get the braytech exotics

[sudden sinew]

I mean technically the warmind is braytech

[frigid sparrow]

No purpose really

He's restricted to Europa and hasn't made any real threats since seraph

Also we probably don't wanna destroy the exomind database that is in fairly close proximity

But unless he starts collaborating with someone like Maya (or if byf gets his wish the concordat) there's bigger threats at hand

[jagged badge]

I think Clovis would sooner nuke himself than collaborate with Maya haha

They did not have a good relationship

[dim minnow]

Ironically Clovis and Maya both turned around in the end

Clovis (not the AI) sought to right his wrongs in the form of Clovis-1 who would become Banshee-44

While Maya would regress after becoming obsessed with the Veil

Resulting in the Conductor

People may have reservations towards Echoes, but the twist that she already found her Chioma only to throw her away like the others was brilliant

I do wonder if The Conductor and Clovis AI would reluctantly agree to work together out of necessity

[frigid sparrow]

He turns on an exo frame to act as a representative then blows it up in front of her, somehow does more damage than a nova bomb

[frigid sparrow]

It's unironically a fantastic twist that was so harshly screwed over by it just being running encore the third time around and Maya not having a speaking role with this discovery

[jagged badge]

I can’t remember if I saw it coming or not but I do remember I was horrified nonetheless when I found out

[frigid sparrow]

it's a very effective twist that's understated since it's from us scanning exo #3 in the same research room right before the same boss fight

I also don't really like how chioma gets her last "I am her" moment. lacks subtlety and undermines maya's harsh vex-like cruelty and efficiency by interrupting her

[slim girder]

Because just like savathun he has usefulness. If the vesper station stuff ends up leading anywhere we might have to try and ask him about it to understand more. Obviously he wouldn't just give that information but the point is he would have that kind of knowledge.

[dim minnow]

I'm still wondering what that "they know" is all about

the Clovis AI that we had in the Exo Frame was just a partition of Clovis on Europa right?

maybe just that part was marning the main AI about what was going on

[slim girder]

Can you remind me about that part? I know what you're talking about but what was the context again?

[dim minnow]

this was right after Ana Bray and Rasputin kicked Clovis out of the Exo Frame

[slim girder]

Ohhhh

I remember now

Sounds like a long shot but do you think Clovis knew the people on the other side of the vesper anomaly?.
The message about a character or possibly a ship named Lodi makes me think this is just like the neomuni where it's a branch of humanity.

[dim minnow]

don't know anything about a Lodi yet

[slim girder]

Have you done the dungeon?

[dim minnow]

yes

still going through the quest

on the step with first secret chest

[slim girder]

Oh it's not related to the quest. When you complete the first encounter. Look on the left side of the room and there's a panel that talks about a "unauthorised message" coming through the anomaly.

Byf talks about it which is why I posted his video yesterday.

[eager trout]

Finally a villain who is willingly delusional and not just petty

[brave crescent]

is it true that there is 2nd witness ? just hear

[fast tapir]

um

no i believe there isn't

[brave crescent]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srd4r_ciVVY&t=191s

[dim minnow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Bqh43ATDrU

HAWTHORNE MENTIONED

[frigid sparrow]

wait what the fuck the seasonal activity has actual dialogue

I've only ever gotten the basic bitch lines from variks and spider

you... do have a lot of hands
crow is the most awkward character in this fucking game I love him

[dim minnow]

I think they only play if you fail

or maybe only in the playlist version

yeah, probably only in playlist

[frigid sparrow]

also wasn't this basically the clovis from the rasputin exo telling the clovis back home that the vanguard/guardian knew about the plans to use the warmind for abhorrent initiative

[frigid sparrow]

nah I did the playlist version before to check and I got spider's line about us loving killing, same thing I got during a long run

one of my biggest gripes with onslaught as the activity

no FUCKING TALKS AMONGST EVERYONE RAAAAH

[dim minnow]

weird, I think I recall getting the "why does the Echo only target Eliksni" dialogue on my first run of playlist

[frigid sparrow]

oh my fucking god https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPdFiRfR07g

this is the most ANNOYING SHIT

LIKE WHY CAN'T WE HEAR THIS

I wonder if spider is actually gonna have any character development because every single other character despising him and calling him bitchmade is the funniest shit in the game and I don't want to lose that

spider marking his own sort of "territory" in the city is pretty interesting. wonder how that'll play out.

variks tempting the fates is great

[dim minnow]

Well he did very briefly consider switching sides during House of Wolves back in D1

[frigid sparrow]

yeah but him doing the crow=uldren thing is very funny

like even fikrul got that mentality out of the way after the talk between the two

[dim minnow]

A good thing they finally got to that interaction

We've been waiting for Fikrul and Crow confrontation for a long time

[ruby pivot]

hmmmm question since warlocks are canonically stronger(i assume) can they open a black hole?

a small one

[dim minnow]

They can create small scale singularities

[frigid sparrow]

hunters are actually stronger than the other two classes. Don't believe me? Just look at the lucent hive. no real acolyte hunter bosses, pretty much always a wizard warlock or knight titan whenever there's a big boss. why is that? because acolytes are the strongest of the three, factually, thus cannot be seen as much, making hunters the strongest class

(this post was made by someone who solely plays hunter)

[ruby pivot]

hunter gang rise up

[ruby pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/i-really-appreciate-you-taking-the-time-to-do-this-today-steve-wood-james-marsden-dead-to-me-appreciate-gif-17812441

pleasure's all mine, jester

[slim girder]

Didn't effrideet throw Saladin? I'd say some hunters def have a lot of strength.

[dim minnow]

all Guardians have increased strength

Ikora was able to lift very large stone bricks with her bare arms with little effort

[slim girder]

True. We definitely have abnormal strength.

[dim minnow]

I do feel that Titans would on average hold more strength than the other two classes

[slim girder]

They probably would. Their identity is based on that strength. "Paragons of strength and bravery"

[vital lodge]

What's glimmer

Like, it's composition

Crystals?

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/glimmer
Bam

TL;DR, it's a programmable matter.

[vital lodge]

Ah. Horrors beyond my comprehension

Dang it

"Nearly anything"

So much for making a second traveler

[trim grotto]

Uhm. Well, it also isn't paracausal.

[vital lodge]

I'll program it to be paracausal >:3

Also

I was listening to Clovis. Forcibly. Did he think of a way to replace ghosts?

[trim grotto]

Depending on how far you stretch the concept, Exo. But what are you referring to specifically?

[vital lodge]

His chat with osiris

At the end of a strike

Ok so lemme try and get things straight

[trim grotto]

Mm. Which one? Mars, Europa?

[vital lodge]

The darkness, told clovis to open a vex portal?

[trim grotto]

Sort of. The Darkness sent him to Europa in a vision, wherein he found Clarity Control - one of what we now know are Dissenter Statues.
All following visions were from the Traveler attempting to warn him off of his newfound path, but he saw them as prophesies.

[vital lodge]

Ah. And did all this cause the downfall of the Exo system?

[trim grotto]

He chose to raid the Ishtar Collective, steal a Vex, and had it construct a gate. This opened up to Volantis, and then he began harvesting Radiolarian Fluid.

[trim grotto]

Well, yes and no.
Without the Radiolarian Fluid, Clovis would never have used Clarity (darkness) to turn it into Alkahest, the fluid which stabilised the Exominds and allowed the modern Exo to exist without succumbing to a far more deadly, early form of DER, called Billboarding.

Basically, it is what allowed Exo to actually exist.

[vital lodge]

So it was doomed from the start

[trim grotto]

On the other hand, it was the inevitable Vex/Exo war which laid waste to Europa and the Deep Stone Crypt.

[vital lodge]

Now, has time travel actually happened

[trim grotto]

Yes, with some caveats.

[vital lodge]

Wait is there an Exo without a number....

[trim grotto]

Iron Lord Felwinter. But he's a bit of a special case.

[vital lodge]

The ghost helmet guy?

[trim grotto]

That's the one

[vital lodge]

Is that ghost alive still?

[trim grotto]

Technically!

[vital lodge]

If we free it will it go revive him

[trim grotto]

It wasn't his. Felspring, his Ghost, died along with Felwinter himself in the Site 6 incident known as the Ironsbane.