📚lore-discussion

[blazing wasp]

It is reliant on your participation to exist

[ember storm]

I wish I had a plant to yell at

[blazing wasp]

Not specifically

[static bluff]

this is 100% bait

[ember storm]

Can someone find the Seth quote about the shitty bronco

[blazing wasp]

But it works

[frigid sparrow]

Oh. I was gonna lay into a tree later. Thanks for saving that poor thing's feelings.

[ember storm]

No you should still do that

[blazing wasp]

The winnower isn't real I mutter to myself as I drive my shitty bronco into the traveler gift store?

[ember storm]

Yes that one

[frigid sparrow]

But I dunno what to tell about

[static bluff]

I'm participating in the argument but I didn't continue the argument

[blazing wasp]

I think it's not exactly word for word

[frigid sparrow]

Like what could I yell at a tree about

[blazing wasp]

Not even sure if it's winnower and not gardener

[ember storm]

But just replace the winnower with “I’m not the one arguing” and it applies to 99% of discourse in this server

[thin spruce]

Stop.

[blazing wasp]

Rubber ducky method

[ember storm]

Actually it’s about the winnower

[frigid sparrow]

Not being able to flawless nightmare hunts?

[blazing wasp]

Just venting to an inanimate object works

[ember storm]

Who does nightmare hunts in the year of shadow 2024

[frigid sparrow]

Actually master nightmare hunt crota kinda annoys me I'll tell about that

[frigid sparrow]

Look I decided I'd finally get to doing those triumphs

[blazing wasp]

The object won't judge, won't respond, it'll just listen the way it can (which isn't)

[ember storm]

I just realized your grimm has an owo

[frigid sparrow]

And y'know what it's actually kinda enjoyable going through that older content

[ember storm]

I don’t like that

[fast tapir]

would a brick be as effective as a plant?

[blazing wasp]

Sometimes all you need is something that listens, and nothing more

[blazing wasp]

Plant has more charm

Or a rubber duck

[ember storm]

No

[frigid sparrow]

On other servers and steam I've gone by Nightmare King Gwimm :3

For... Probably years, now

[ember storm]

Do you think Eris yells at Immaru like a cat

[static bluff]

have we gone over the fact that unveiling is metaphorical and unreliable today

[frigid sparrow]

No, she treats that mf like another person

[ember storm]

She hits him with books

[frigid sparrow]

She throws him across the room

[blazing wasp]

Innmaru, gods most immature and shitty hive ghost, does not warrant such treatment

[ember storm]

Spray bottle with omolon juice

[blazing wasp]

It warrants being yelled at like your bitchass cat who knocked your mug off the table

[frigid sparrow]

I want the omolon juice...

[blazing wasp]

But there's none of the underlying love

[ember storm]

Go take some

It’s free

The vanguard can’t stop you

[frigid sparrow]

Yummy battery acid 😋

[fast tapir]

i prefer regular acid

[frigid sparrow]

Really? Don't enjoy the lemony taste of battery acid?

[fast tapir]

nah i prefer the classic

[frigid sparrow]

Suit yourself, I guess. I'll pour myself a glass.

[fathom goblet]

What song do yall think plays when shooting wavesplitter

Imagine your fighting the witness and all you hear is Ymca

[empty fern]

The marble machine from like 10 years ago

[cinder geode]

@jagged badge can we confirm?

[fathom goblet]

We need a gambling machine exotic handcannon

[fast tapir]

but why?

[dim minnow]

She has a cage labeled for him that she expects him to go into

[empty fern]

May I introduce to you, d1 hawkmoon

[cloud gust]

I can confirm this
It’s in the Festival of the Lost lore books

[fringe wasp]

Is there any lore reason why gambit still exists or could Bungie technically just delete it

Geniunely though

[trim grotto]

We never actually learned what Drifter was doing with the Motes after the Faken were introduced. So...

[analog torrent]

"Keep playing the game." The Emissary of the Nine's voice haunts Drifter. A voice that once belonged to Orin. Standing on the bridge of the H.E.L.M., he can't hear the ship's running noise or the chatter of the navigation frames. All he can hear is—
-False Idols
90% sure this is Orin telling Drifter the Nine still want him running Gambit

[fringe wasp]

I thought the emissary meant something else with "the game" tbh i know the line tho

But i also remember eris confiscating the pyramid motived coin telling him to move on or something like that but i forgot where that was, might be a lore tab of a weapon or vehicle i really forgot

but yeah so for short:

Emissary: Gambit, Gambit-man

it seems

[analog torrent]

That was also False Idols

That was the lore tab where they partook in premarital h#nd h#lding 🤢

[fringe wasp]

Ew

To think that drifter would do such thing fr

[trim grotto]

That entry specifically is a memory of the last time he was told that

[analog torrent]

Oh

[trim grotto]

As I understand it, the game is the "game of Light and Dark". I'm not sure if that matters, now.

Like, sure, it matters, but the Witness was defeated. As the Nine seemed to realise, we needed both Light and Dark.

But Drifter? And his Gambit? Who knows.

[ember storm]

Dark chocolate

He owns a monopoly

[quiet yacht]

Is it true that drifter and eris are a thing ?

Like personally I ship it but is it confirmed?

[trim grotto]

Pretty much, yes. One moment.

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/false-idols

Enjoy

[quiet yacht]

Ah yes !

I want their love story. I don’t want Saint love story like they’ve been using it for so many seasons now especially Osiris i’m getting tired of it

[trim grotto]

They're both quite reserved people. I'm not surprised it's been happening more in the background than Saint and Osiris.

[quiet yacht]

I guess that make sense just want something fresh if they are bringing into the whole love story storytelling aspect to destiny

[trim grotto]

Saint and Osiris are being used as a counterweight to Maya and Chioma this Episode. They won't always be the forefront.

[quiet yacht]

I guess so i’m just really tired of a Osiris man
Like he was an interesting character at first when they introduced him, but like they keep on using him

For me the point where I was tired of Osiris was like right after season of dawn

[ember storm]

Well keep in mind that for like an entire year he kept popping up because it wasn’t actually him

It was Savathun trying to get as much information as she could while working out her plan to get the light

[trim grotto]

Savasiris
Good times

[quiet yacht]

Ah right

[ember storm]

The real term is Osusris

[quiet yacht]

Almost forgot about that

I miss Segira

[ember storm]

Anyway yeah plot important appearances from Osiris have only happened like four or five times technically

[quiet yacht]

I liked her character. She was like the only interesting ghost character we got.

Our own ghost, honestly, I hate him

[ember storm]

Rude

[quiet yacht]

I want segira as my ghost

She was funny to me

[blazing wasp]

well you can get her shell.

or, could...

[analog torrent]

Sundance
Vincent (Yor’s ghost)
Ophiuchus
Peach
Didi (Marcus Ren’s ghost)
Felspring
Isirah (I FUCKING LOVE ISIRAH 🦅🦅🦅)
Drifter’s ghost (forgot if it has a name)
Wei Ning’s ghost
Our Ghost has some pretty raw lines

I’m still here. Are you still here? I don’t want to lose you to this. I love you.

Luzaku’s ghost

[quiet yacht]

No, I know they’re there but like

They don’t prominently appear as much

[analog torrent]

True

Bungle doesn’t want to put the cool characters in the game

[quiet yacht]

Drifters ghost , I’m intrigued by it

Because from what it sounds drifter abuses him

[analog torrent]

Huffed mad copium hoping Felwinter, Radegast, and Jolder would show up in TFS if the Pale Heart pulled them from Saladin’s memories

[analog torrent]

It’s a weird relationship
Its last words were “Hey. There’s always hope. For what it’s worth, I’m proud of you.”

[quiet yacht]

Damn

I did not know that

I don’t know and like lore and dialogue he just puts his ghost to be like more like AI assistant that he doesn’t trust

Like when Osiris is making the sun dial he gets his ghost to open him by saying do the calculations

And then there was like cut scene. They had him saying how he doesn’t trust the ghost.

[ember storm]

Well that’s all characterization from years ago

Plus the ghost had to undergo some modifications in order to save both their lives, which has left them mute

[jagged badge]

[jagged badge]

I don’t believe we know Drifter’s Ghost’s gender

Unless I’ve missed something

[quiet yacht]

Do ghosts even have genders?

If so

Wait is there a Lora of a ghost falling in love with a
guardian

[dim minnow]

Ghosts can be more masculine or feminine

Like Targe being male and Sundance being female

though technically they should really be genderless as they are mechanical drones

[analog torrent]

Drifter refers to his ghost as an “it” but idk if that’s because he’s a bum or because his ghost identifies that way

[trim grotto]

No. Some people apparently read Didi and Marcus Ren that way but it was simply affection.

However, yes. While it obviously isn't a physical thing, Ghosts do have gender.

[analog torrent]

Yeah, he gave her a smooch but it was written in a platonic way imo

[trim grotto]

Exactly yeah

[dim minnow]

besides, Marcus Ren and Enoch Bast are more likely

[analog torrent]

As for the rule 3 violating statement Shaxx made regarding the dialogue in Nightmare Daddy, I figured that was referring to Ren and Bast because they do have some evidence

[dim minnow]

though Didi writing Oryx the Nightmare Daddy is very sus given what Shaxx said about it

[analog torrent]

I am snail

[trim grotto]

Didi's just a gremlin let's be honest

[dim minnow]

if I recall correctly, Ren played Oryx, Didi played as us, and Enoch was our Ghost

[trim grotto]

Exactly
She's a gremlin

[analog torrent]

Her and Marcus are the perfect pair

“Marcus I’ve always wanted a racing jacket”
“Say no more”

[jagged badge]

Gender is simply a thing of expression/identity. Ghosts use different gendered pronouns and speak in gendered voices, so clearly identify with gender

[quiet yacht]

I see

So has there ever been a romance between a guardian and ghost?

[trim grotto]

...

[ruby pivot]

yo

did rhulk use his full power against us?

some people say its the last phase he did, which i also believed

[trim grotto]

Sort of not really
He was toying with us until he realised he fucked up, since we'd been turning his own power against him

[ruby pivot]

ahh

alright thanks

btw @trim grotto this channel is destiny lore strict only channel right? if there are other games mixed, it should be off topic?

correct?

since i am going to compare a d2 character to someone else

[trim grotto]

Well, it wouldn't be the first time we've had this topic here. As long as it isn't interupting an actual ongoing Destiny lore discussion I don't think the mods would mind.

[ruby pivot]

ah, eh just to be sure, i already did put it on the off topic discussion

[quiet yacht]

Is ikora really that strong

I mean she chuck nova bomb and doesn’t even kill Maya

[trim grotto]

Sure. She's one of the strongest Warlocks to exist.

Maya also has the paracausal Echo of Command, mind you.

[analog torrent]

-According to Chalco, there are only around 6 Lightbearers with her power level (mentioned in Witch Queen CE I think)
-She doesn't partake in the Crucible anymore even though she used to be a Crucible fiend. One of the reasons: if she were to lose, would the City think her weak? If she were to win, would the City fear her?
-She's one of, if not the only person to beat Shaxx in a fight

[trim grotto]

Cayde did. Not entirely clear how authentic it was, but he did.

[analog torrent]

Nuh uh it was authentic
He's just lucky like that

[dim minnow]

seemed pretty clear that the implications were that he cheated

[trim grotto]

Still got Shaxx to uphold his end of the bargain and play dodgeball though

[slim girder]

One of the best lore entries ever with shaxx watching a kids dodgeball game

[quiet yacht]

By that logic, wouldn’t she be able to take on a wish dragon then?

[trim grotto]

Ikora? She already has. A few, in fact. She participated in the Great Hunt.

Many Guardians did. For example, Eris Morn, back when she was a Lightbearer. Bladedancer, to be precise.

[slim girder]

There's a lore tab involving eris and ikora I believe disintegrating a pile of ahamkara bones since they are considered dangerous due to their whispers.

[trim grotto]

Which Eris definitely absolutely adhered to

[slim girder]

I mean that singular bone saved her and now she has successfully crippled the hive pantheon and become a god herself. So I'd say it all worked out.

[trim grotto]

Haha true I suppose

[slim girder]

Speaking of Eris i wonder if we'll ever go back to the hellmouth. surely there's a lot more down there we haven't seen like with the dreadnaught. Wonder if eris would ever go back there.

[ember storm]

I sincerely doubt she’d ever want to

Plus it’s really just been left to rot

[fiery rover]

It’s where she should marry the drifter

[trim grotto]

"Let's get married in the place where I lost my friends, my hope, my Light, my Ghost, my eyes, and where I was trapped for centuries."

Romantic.

[fathom goblet]

Is their a lore reason I hate the fallen?

[empty fern]

Didn’t you ask this a few months ago

[trim grotto]

I think most of us would prefer it if this didn't become a regular thing

[fathom goblet]

Ight

Seriously though why haven't we gotten old Chicago as a place to explore?

We know it exist

[trim grotto]

We know a lot of places that exist.
It's probably because they don't want to have three separate locations on Earth alone. Plus, there isn't currently a reason to go there en masse.

[fathom goblet]

I guess

Be neat though

[trim grotto]

True!

[fathom goblet]

Imagine the headsets from a destroyed bridge

*headshots

[trim grotto]

I can. There's one in the EDZ.

[fathom goblet]

Really?

I haven't found it at all then lol

[next bobcat]

@trim grotto is this a new look I see?

[trim grotto]

'Tis indeed
Well, somewhat, haha

Same helmet and cloak of course

[rich wyvern]

i'm obsessed with shinobu and yet there hasn't been ANYTHING on them for a long ass time

the only tiny thing we have is that Micah-10 is wearing The Sixth Coyote

but what does that even mean. Shinobu's dead? or she just gave her the armor?

[rich wyvern]

curse of osiris cloak

and is that...

gensym knight helm?

[trim grotto]

Gensym Knight Casque and the Omega Mechanos Cloak

[rich wyvern]

which was released during curse

but i think it is an eververse one

not world armor

[trim grotto]

The cloak is Eververse, yes.

[trim grotto]

Nothing suggests she's dead.

[rich wyvern]

right?

[trim grotto]

Nadiya also used the Sixth Coyote, by the by.

[rich wyvern]

fr?

[dim minnow]

at least we know some more on her comrades

[trim grotto]

Indeed
I'll elaborate further once I make a cup of tea and some crumpets because I only just got home

[dim minnow]

Micah-10 plays a notable role in TFS

and Nadiya once helped Cayde capture the Scorn barons

hmmm

I wonder if Nadiya will appear in Revenant

would be a nice way to tie Micah-10 in as well

[dim minnow]

Devrim Kay in real life

[trim grotto]

People do mistake me for being English

Having an English accent doesn't help that case of course

[dim minnow]

can't even be Australian right

it's as if this was your fated theme song

[rich wyvern]

I drink tea but not at fucking 1 AM

[dim minnow]

for Mael it probably isn't 1 AM

[rich wyvern]

Then he must be british...

[dim minnow]

Aussie

[trim grotto]

It is nearly 4PM

[dim minnow]

Mael's brain implodes whenever you play his theme song in front of him

[rich wyvern]

orange names

remind me what happened to the emissary last time we saw them

[dim minnow]

she...

well nothing I guess

[rich wyvern]

so shes still the emissary

just not relevant

?

[dim minnow]

all she really did was speak in some riddles or some shit

would be nice to see her come in for the Eris-Drifter-Emissary love triangle

[rich wyvern]

Nooo

Damn it

Fuck Eris/Drifter

We need Zavala/Caiatl

[trim grotto]

He's teaching her to knit.

[rich wyvern]

Let that man get some alien booty and he'll stop crying over his dead wife

[dim minnow]

then she was practicing with Saladin

[heady monolith]

its already been heavily implied they see each other romantically

or at least when caiatl said they should celebrate in ways that would shock their ancestors thats how i interpreted it

[rich wyvern]

Ok I missed that line

[fiery rover]

I NEVER thought it that way but I kinda like that idea more. I thought it as just saying “celebrate harder than anyone of our time of either of our species has” and with how extravagant cabal are, passing that would be what shocked the ancestors

[heady monolith]

also can caiatl stop talking about zavala's tusks on live comms its making the fireteam uncomfortable

[dim minnow]

Eido: Drifter, why does Eris call you "babygirl"

[heady monolith]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/dead-messenger

[fiery rover]

This might be a dumb question, but what race is Zavala? Human? Awoken? Cuz like, being blue and his eyes

[heady monolith]

theres also this between caiatl and zavala

[dim minnow]

Awoken

[heady monolith]

awoken

[fiery rover]

Okay I figured

[heady monolith]

but technically awokens were human

[fiery rover]

I wonder what woke em all up

[heady monolith]

before becoming what we know them as today

[dim minnow]

blue skin and glowing eyes is a key indicator that one is Awoken

[dim minnow]

Mara Sov, partly

she was the first and remade all others in her image

[fiery rover]

That’s what I figured but with Mara giving the vanguard such a hard time when we had to prove ourselves to her just didn’t sit right with me when Zavala is literally an awoken we do everything for

[dim minnow]

Reefborn Awoken are racist towards Earthborn

[stark fjord]

Did maya ever create anything that she made on her own

Cus let’s be fr
She made clones of herself using vex
She made exos of herself using the veil
Now she’s doing god knows what w the command

[fiery rover]

I see. Well at least there’s an actual reason for the plot hole in my head

[stark fjord]

I concour

Pure awoken are blueish

[dim minnow]

she was a well regarded researcher in the Golden Age

[stark fjord]

And hybrid awoken are purpleish

[stark fjord]

But like

Did she actually make anything 😭

[dim minnow]

not much is said about human-awoken hybrid

[stark fjord]

That wasn’t borrowed knowledge

All I’m saying is

[sick yew]

Borrowed knowledge?

[dim minnow]

the simulations were the Vex's creations actually

[stark fjord]

Still clones of her made with vex

[heady monolith]

that reminds me, i miss mara and sjur

"Sjur," Mara said, falling to her knees, clutching her beloved's face between shaking hands, "Sjur, on the day you worship me, you cannot love me anymore, for to worship is to yield all power, and I cannot love what has no power over me."
LIKE ARE YOU KIDDING MEEE

[dim minnow]

Sjur will come back

Sleepless lore tab said so

[fiery rover]

What maya made was “research” the physical thing she made was the knowledge we know of I suppose lol

[jagged badge]

Not all of them

[heady monolith]

if she doesnt im going to force osiris to open up the sundial.

[stark fjord]

They’re human just a different genome

[dim minnow]

only the firstborn Awoken were human once

[fiery rover]

I like the weapon Mara used against the dreadnought. I wanna know more bout what those were

[jagged badge]

Plenty of Awoken have been born as Awoken either in the Distributary, Reef or elsewhere, and had no prior human past like the original Awoken

[dim minnow]

Harbingers

[fiery rover]

Can’t even remember the name but it’s on the tip

That

Yea

[stark fjord]

A majority of them had their past lives

[fiery rover]

Were harbingers like awoken devotee kamakazis? Or like energy?

[dim minnow]

I don't think we had exact numbers

[jagged badge]

I think you may overestimate how many of the Awoken are the original ones still

[stark fjord]

Well

I guess some

[sick yew]

At least 3

Maybe 4

[trim grotto]

Only Mara and Uldren remembered their human lives.

[sick yew]

Possibly 5 awoken

Exist

[stark fjord]

There is a number nontheless

[dim minnow]

we know exactly how many firstborn there are

[jagged badge]

Again, over literal millennia, plenty of Awoken would have died and plenty would have been born

[stark fjord]

Oh hi mael

[dim minnow]

though the amount of them that went with Mara to leave the distributary and how many of them still live aren't known

[fiery rover]

So uldren before uldren?

[dim minnow]

and niether is the amount of offspring they had

[dim minnow]

Uldwyn

[fiery rover]

He had a hard enough time as crow learning about uldren lol

[trim grotto]

Uldwyn

[stark fjord]

Lol

[heady monolith]

tau!!

[stark fjord]

Hey

[dim minnow]

I do feel that the very start of the Awoken lore should be noted

you see, it all started when a frozen rabbit embryo spilled out of a biocontainer

[fiery rover]

Yea like “paracausal” powers is way to broad imo when we as guardians also have paracausal powers. What makes being an awoken different besides being blue and the eyes

Like power wise

[dim minnow]

it then started to plunge inwards into Sol at a very high speed until it collided with the faceplate of a man floating out in space, killing him instantly

and this incident is what caused the creation of the Awoken

[jagged badge]

The capacity to become Techeuns, for one

[fiery rover]

Wait. That sounds so comically fake

Lmao

Space rabbit roadkill created awoken?

[dim minnow]

Destiny lore gets looney sometimes

[fiery rover]

LMFAO

[dim minnow]

basically, Mara witnessed this because she was out doing repairs with the guy

[jagged badge]

Indirectly caused a domino of events that led to that, yes

[heady monolith]

fun fact, its canonical that guardians just jump off the tower purely for fun

[dim minnow]

and this incident is what caused her to convince her mom to get their family to join Project Amrita

[fiery rover]

I’m Gaurdians

[dim minnow]

which ended up with Mara and her family being put on the Yang Liwei as its crew

and the crew and passengers of the Yang Liwei would later become the firstborn Awoken

[fiery rover]

I’ll admit I’m a total scrub on anything awoken lore that predates before us meeting Mara lmao

[dim minnow]

a lot of things are canon

let's see

[fiery rover]

So what are/were the harbingers besides “a weapon”

[dim minnow]

weapon perks
random rolls
Tuesdays
eager edge skating
the desire to boost your Grenade recharge rate among other things

[heady monolith]

civilians in the tower every tuesday

https://tenor.com/view/worried-scared-oh-no-stop-it-fearful-gif-12534009

[trim grotto]

Alright I'm back
I have tea and crumpets
What's up

[dim minnow]

I mentioned the Rabbit Embryo again

[trim grotto]

Living creatures! Quite mysterious ones, but they were known to bond with the Techeuns.

[dim minnow]

the one that single-handedly caused the Awoken to exist

[fiery rover]

So they aren’t even awoken at all? I misconstrued them then

[dim minnow]

they were also described as "trophies from an ageless war"

[trim grotto]

As opposed to the myriad of other rabbit embryos mentioned within the universe?

[dim minnow]

is there not only one?

[trim grotto]

They are not, in fact, Awoken.

[trim grotto]

that was the joke dova

[fiery rover]

I see. Damn they gave there lives to the awoken then.

Hope it was worth

[trim grotto]

[dim minnow]

hmmm

I wonder if they are linked to the ekpyrosic

[sick yew]

Even funner fact, they had to put a no walking zone at the bottom of the tower so people dont get crushed by falling Guardians who fell or jumped off the tower

[heady monolith]

our ghosts must hate us so bad

[sick yew]

Ghosts are as diverse as we are

[fiery rover]

I need a story about a ghost that regretted the gaurdian he picked

[jagged badge]

Strain

I think his name is

[trim grotto]

We've got a few actually

Strain is one

[dim minnow]

Ghost Stories has a decent amount fo these

[fiery rover]

now are these all moral reasons the ghost regret it, or are there any where the ghost just DOES NOT get along with them to no end

[trim grotto]

Usually the former.

[fiery rover]

LMFAO

Figures

[trim grotto]

Ikora and Ophiuchus didn't talk for... how many decades was it?

[dim minnow]

the latter would be Drifter and his Ghost

[fiery rover]

That’s exactly the relationship I perceived

Pretty sure our ghost would regret his decision

[sick yew]

Forgot his name but I wouldnt be surprised if Rezyl Azzirs ghost didnt feel quite as good about who he brought back

[dim minnow]

hmmmm maybe the ekpyrosic are linked to the Harbongers

[dim minnow]

Vincent

[sick yew]

Oh right bro had the most common name ever

[fiery rover]

Ekpyrosic? Lol

[sick yew]

Hes still around isnt he?

[jagged badge]

Huh?

[dim minnow]

the Ekpyrosic were these "ancients" who possessed several Techeuns one day and turned one of them into a singularity

[dim minnow]

yeah

[heady monolith]

there was a time where our ghost was kinda uncertain about us or has shown concern towards our mental health

[fiery rover]

My gaurdian be online like it’s a 9-5 job, I’m sure homie just tryna relax

[sick yew]

He does that a lot actually

Because he cares about us

[heady monolith]

so what i 'committed war crimes', grow up ghost

[rich wyvern]

we never did that huh

[fiery rover]

Imagine that singularity IS the harbinger

[dim minnow]

we don't have much on them, but I theorize that they came from a previous iteration of the cosmos that was destroyed and remade

[dim minnow]

nah, that singularity is what powers the Oracle Engine

[heady monolith]

theres a voice line where ghost has expressed discomfort with us when going on a killing streak, i forgot where it was from though

[dim minnow]

pretty sure you are thinking of Thin Line lore tab

[sick yew]

Well
Some of the tools in our arsenal are not exactly the most humane

[fiery rover]

Parasite

Haha imma shoot baby hive worm at you

[sick yew]

Nah Parasite is fine

He wants that

[dim minnow]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/thin-line?highlight=thin line

[heady monolith]

WHOOPS i was thinking about when nolan north read out the lore card

[fiery rover]

Where my opposite bloodthirsty saint14 like ghosts at

[sick yew]

Gepetto?

[stark fjord]

Fun fact

[sick yew]

I dont think shes bloodthirsty

Isnt she really nice

[stark fjord]

The speaker has harbingers placed in the og tower

[fiery rover]

No I’m not saying saints ghost

I’m saying saints furiousity in a ghost

[trim grotto]

so when you say "fact"

[fiery rover]

A ghost “like saint 14 himself”

[stark fjord]

(Shh let them believe me)

/j.

[dim minnow]

ah knowingly lying

that's fine

[stark fjord]

Nah

Joke

I thought it was

But like

I’m just denying it

Nvm

[fiery rover]

I bet the drifter eaten a harbinger once

[stark fjord]

The way I believe that

[dim minnow]

the closest he's been to that was going to Telesto (Moon of Saturn) and scooping up some Harbinger powder then using it like these:

[small quartz]

so is Failsafe the first Advanced AI?

I know Rasputin is a Warmind? but idk what that is

[trim grotto]

No.

[small quartz]

I presume its an AI Focused of War

[trim grotto]

Rasputin, the Warmind. Humanity's own God of War, designed to predict and eliminate threats to Humanity and the Solar System. Rasputin's influence spread across nearly all AI and Human technology, commandeering any and every asset that could be used when Sol was invaded - even civilian craft.

[small quartz]

Aww

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/transcripts/ghost-scan-alton-dynamo-mars

Try this for example

[sick yew]

Oh how long I have not read that name

Alton Dynamo

[next bobcat]

Can we make a comprehensive spreadsheet of all the stuff that has either been eaten or turned into a gun?

[fiery rover]

Has anything that’s been eaten also been turned into a gun? 💀

[quiet yacht]

I’m confused is Rasputin dead?

[trim grotto]

Yes.

[quiet yacht]

Awwww

😔

He was so cool

Nah man defending humanity to be done dirty like this

Do you know if there’s any other golden age AI’s?

[trim grotto]

Well, there's Failsafe. She's rather front and centre right now.

[quiet yacht]

She’s cool my fav

Still didn’t feel like she was the focus of the season though 😔

Wait, is it only really her that’s left?

We don’t have any other golden age AI

[trim grotto]

Well, there's... the fragmented remains of Soteria, as the Occlusion and as the Hierarchy of Needs. There are lower level AI such as the BrayTech Concierge. Oh, and Firewall.

[small quartz]

Long live fail safe

[slender pewter]

But couldn't help but notice, they all stuck with the one they came out as and never changed it. Also, if voices are gendered, why even after changing your gender your voice never changes along with it?

[jagged badge]

I mean, what does “changing your gender” actually mean? I’ve “changed my gender” but that won’t magically change how my voice works. I have to physically work on that myself

There’s a lot we don’t know on how specifically Ghosts work though

I think TFS suggested or revealed that Ghosts are actually facets of the Traveler’s self split between all these different new entities?

[dim minnow]

since Ghosts are meant to be small fragments of the Traveler, it makes me think that what they do to Guardians is a form of terraformation

[slender pewter]

Yeah so even when you thought you did and told yourself you did, nothing actually did change? There's a reason for that.

For all we know, ghosts are the dead lights

From IT

[jagged badge]

What are you talking about?

[slender pewter]

Voice doesn't just magically change, right. You have to physically alter it by force

If we were at cyberpunk timeline this would be so much easier

But no, I get stuck with the one where Bungie just can't help it but make things worse for themselves

We're currently at the stolen art work phase of the content drought, rare, so this ones special

[jagged badge]

I’m no expert on Cyberpunk but I think the timeline where a games company fucks up sometimes is better than a total dystopian shitshow lmao

[slender pewter]

But which one's looks more hella sick

That's all I got left, every time I try take a peek to look deeper, like buying the new Toyota Supra

Open hood, BMW logos all the way to the non-existent oil dipstick

As a destiny player, I'm use to the reskins being sold as brand new, so I felt right at home

[calm sierra]

I honestly feel like Exos would've been WAY cooler if they were AI, as opposed to people in mechanical bodies.

[analog torrent]

Then you’re gonna love Felwinter

And Rasputin, to an extent

[slim girder]

Don't forget about Clovis either. The big AI head on europa.

[trim grotto]

Holy fuck I remember you

[heavy vortex]

Same

[rich wyvern]

what i miss

[ember storm]

Gender

[rich wyvern]

amazes me how bigots will get invested in destiny of all games

[ember storm]

I love posting the list™️

[analog torrent]

deadass
I'm pretty sure the only straight white human male that has appeared in-game is Clovis

[rich wyvern]

zavala is white

[analog torrent]

Zavala is blue

[rich wyvern]

very light blue

some might say robin's egg blue

wait taht's dark af nevermind

why are robins eggs so dark

[analog torrent]

Nvm
Clovis only appears as a robot head in-game

[tough kettle]

This guy when he sees that trans men take testosterone and that deepms the voice:

why is it that people who hate gay people play a video game with gay people in it

[jagged badge]

Who knows. No use dwelling on that guy though

[tough kettle]

True

[eager trout]

These two had the same plan

[trim grotto]

I'll take your word for it

[jagged badge]

Maybe we need to ask for Lux’s expertise

[eager trout]

-Both fused a lot of people to become a nigh-omnipotent entity
-Both wanted to impose their will onto the universe and give it a "final shape" with the pretext of ending suffering
-Both used manipulation as one of their main tools
-Both hijacked the power of an entity with god-like powers to achieve their goal
-Both got defeated by someone powered by said entity

[trim grotto]

Both have anime eyes

[eager trout]

That um...I guess

[rich wyvern]

Both have big ass heads

[rich wyvern]

the supervillain that wants to end suffering is kind of ubiquitous

[eager trout]

Yes, but both wanted to do it by trapping the universe in an eternal state

[rich wyvern]

That's often the implication of a lot of these things

this happened in naruto, dishonored, hunter x hunter, control, elden ring, silent hill, neon genesis evangelion just to name things off the top of my head

[tough kettle]

and one of these characters has a significantly better character design

it rhymes with... smitwess

[rich wyvern]

yes, as much as i hate the witness's design, it's not an anime twink with stupid hair

[tough kettle]

i think the witness is really ugly but the design is cool especially the cloud of anguished faces coming from its head

[rich wyvern]

honestly the unibrow and megamind forehead ruin it for me

[trim grotto]

Good thing it's dead then haha

[rich wyvern]

agreed

btw

I'm certain I missed some very cool conversations when the traveler visions were being transcribed

@trim grotto @dim minnow did you two have any particular thoughts on them? always fun to hear your opinions

waltz too when he is in a good mood

i mean specifically the visions from finding those little mini travelers around the pale heart

[eager trout]

That's not even a word

[eager trout]

MINI TRAVELERS????

[fathom goblet]

Me when I chuck a small traveler

[rich wyvern]

that's what they looked like to me

[tough kettle]

i know!

[eager trout]

Where are the mini Travelers???

[dim minnow]

one of them reminded me of how Osiris mentioned that the Veil and Traveler were possibly once united

[rich wyvern]

same!

[eager trout]

I'd say Sunday (the anime guy) is only liked by his simps, and by those who are mature and wise enough to see beyond what is shown and understand his character.

[rich wyvern]

around

[eager trout]

Doesn't help that he's a professional yapper control freak who tried to trap the entire universe in a dream and also had some birds (possibly controlled by him) that would reply to him as he monologued to himself.

[eager trout]

Show me

[trim grotto]

(They)

[trim grotto]

It was a very interesting way to present them
Reminiscent of the lore entries we've had in the past of the Traveler's thoughts

Very cool

[fathom goblet]

What happened with caydes body again?

[jagged badge]

He just kinda faded away. What comes from the Light, returns to the Light

[fathom goblet]

Including the 1st time?

[jagged badge]

Oh the first time? No, he was just a Lightless, robotic corpse

In death he was in some kind of blissful nothingness or something, until Crow’s inadvertent wish brought Cayde back to life

[fathom goblet]

Can you visit his grave or is that memorial his grave

[dim minnow]

his actual grave, no

just the memorial

[fathom goblet]

Shame

[small quartz]

nah the witness has cuter eyes

[slim girder]

I wonder if we'll ever be able to visit a cemetery of some kind for guardians or defenders of the last city. Like I'd be willing to bet Amanda was buried near where cayde was.

[trim grotto]

She was buried at the Farm. We went to her grave.

[slim girder]

I thought that was just a memorial. Unless I'm missing someone saying she was actually buried there.
That same memorial was then moved to the tower.

[trim grotto]

To be honest, I'm not even sure if there was anything to bury.

[mortal shell]

What caused the Witness to have a big fore head

?

[trim grotto]

magic

[fresh zephyr]

Hey so I'm a destiny noob but interested in this particular story I had listened to from a random recommended video, but have simply forgotten what to look up to find it.

The one where the dude went into a wormhole (?) and him and his robot were screaming for like trillions of years

[trim grotto]

Ah, one moment.

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/akashic-revelation

'Twasn't a Wormhole, but the portal to the Pale Heart that the Witness carved into the Traveler.

We had not yet figured out how to traverse it.

[fresh zephyr]

You're amazing. I'm going to re-read this and get goosebumps again.

[slim girder]

Poor joxer

[slim girder]

Well we did see a body during the funeral. Although I don't want to imagine what it might have looked like. Like cayde had a hole in his chest and severe damage. Amanda with pretty much no protective gear probably didn't fair very well.

[trim grotto]

Yeaah
Don't raise the cover

[ruby pivot]

i have a question

did you guys feel the lost the battle in red war?

or did we felt a crushing defeat in a war in any campaigns?

so far i felt like we have upper hand for most times(for some minor set backs)

[ember storm]

I mean it felt like a pretty big failure having Cayde die in our arms with no way of helping

There’s been quite a few times where we only scrape by

[slim girder]

Losing Rasputin as well imo hurt

[ember storm]

To be completely honest, Red War was ruined by the general vibe of the writing that plagued Year 1

It was supposed to be all about learning to stand on your own two feet again and to keep fighting until you can’t anymore, but does any of the characterization reflect that? No

You just have Amanda acting weird about a hive crystal, Ikora apparently sitting on Io for months without even realizing Asher was also there, Cayde talking about sandwiches

The trailers also didn’t really help

You’ve got an antagonist whose regular routine revolves around detonating stars to destroy entire systems, throwing the corpses of his enemies into his dog’s feeding chamber, rounding up and executing civilians

And their “buildup” for that was Cayde calling him Gary

[ruby pivot]

i mean yeah, deaths are unavoidable in war what i meant like "we fked up real bad" where its like it will take awhile for us to recover back that area or a group,just an example: because of something we were unable to prevent the enemy now holds part of the last city and at the same time converting said citizens or holding them hostage, every attempt made only increase the deaths on our end while the enemies do not, instead it lowers the morale on our side and increase the morale and the sieges made by the enemy

though i am not a writer so i could have alot of holes in here

additional from what i said, enemies putting their marks around the "conquered" part of the last city or critical outpost/branch causing us problems as these marks only makes the enemies bold with their attacks with ferocity, only by wilting their forces and destroying their marks (ex: hive spell stuff or whatever) we can slowly take back that part of the city or somethin

[ember storm]

I don’t really see how that’s worse than the entire city being conquered, everyone being forced to leave or else they were literally rounded up and put down like animals

[ruby pivot]

well lets up the stakes then, captured citizens are put on a public execution their captors feed their loved ones to their family anyone who denies it, dies and will be fed if they feed on their family members they live and spreading rumors about mixed (up to u how) truth and lies on how guardians got their powers causing people to distrust guardians(abit) and some killing themselves to attain the light(if they believe the guardian creed)

[ember storm]

That just seems needlessly edgy

[ruby pivot]

tho forced eating is abit too dark in d2 premise

[ember storm]

I really don’t see where you’re going with this

There’s no active enemy force in destiny that would ever bother with that

[ruby pivot]

hmm true, most of them are rule over or wipe the other race/faction kind of thing

[ember storm]

Ghaul’s primary objective was the traveler, humanity was just in the way, so he planted his ships in the city and made everyone leave and killed those who didn’t

[ruby pivot]

because kicking people off from the city just exposes them to more danger but they will still live if they are smart enough

[ember storm]

He wasn’t being altruistic by any means

His plans were still to kill everybody when the traveler was fully subjugated via the almighty

It’s not like he was planning on living on earth

[ruby pivot]

stakes are not that high at least for me in terms of kicking everyone off

he will definitely leave earth and go around for conquest

earth will be considered conquered

[ember storm]

Did you play the red war

It wasn’t a literal “get out of here”

[blazing wasp]

At best, humanity will be driven into slavery, if they consider humans useful enough.

[ember storm]

People had to run or else they’d be rounded up and put down like dogs

[blazing wasp]

That's a if

And that's also at best

[ember storm]

Red legion forces were still constantly hunting down any survivors for the whole red war

And if they didn’t pick them off, the almighty destroying the sun definitely would’ve

That wasn’t like a bargaining chip, that’s just Ghaul’s regular routine

[blazing wasp]

Realistically red legion just nukes the system like they always do after bleeding it of resources

[ember storm]

Invade, take what they want, kill anyone in their way, then literally kill the sun and destroy the entire system

[ruby pivot]

ye, i wont lie i kinda dont feel half of it, i see the horror but i dont feel the impact that much, but i do see what they were trying to achieve with red war

and probably when i was new, i am both entertained and annoyed with cayde at that time

might be me as well its just at that time too, when i was new (shadowkeep) if i could interact with the shard of the traveler and get my powers back quickly why did the other guardiand didnt do exactly the same?

and why did my character also withheld that info before doing the retaking of the last city i just put it off as because i am the "MC" or i am "the chosen guardian"

anyway end of the world event scenario war is over so we're all good

though how high stakes war it will be against maya tho?

[trim grotto]

They tried. They couldn't.

[ruby pivot]

ooohh? any idea why? like is it because of will? similar to the green lanterns?

[trim grotto]

No. They were simply unable. Very few to no others got their Light back (depending on interpretation of certain entries).

[trim grotto]

We didn't withhold anything, either.

[ruby pivot]

was it in the lorebooks? or in the cinematics/dialogue during campaign

if the latter i might have not paid attention

[trim grotto]

I don't know what you mean. The Shard was common knowledge. Many got the vision.

One of the very first people we talk to about it was Tyra Karn, too weak to make the journey

[ruby pivot]

OOOHH ohhh ok yeah yeah i remember it now abit

no wonder i was reminded of the farm when you said the shard and the vision

[safe galleon]

do we know anything at all about the Herald of Finality, or at the very least is there any indication that they're not just some entirely random unimportant unit?

[trim grotto]

No.

[safe galleon]

huh, weird

[ruby pivot]

ok another question for lore, do we have a backstory for saladin and how the iron wolves came to be? is it on d2 or the most obvious one, d1?

[trim grotto]

Well that's mostly Rise of Iron

[safe galleon]

yeah, we do, but i haven't read up enough to tell you what it is 💀

[ruby pivot]

oof, well i only played d2 when it became f2p(demo) since i am a cheap and have no money at that time

hmm does byf have a vid about them?

the iron lords/saladin i mean

like the full backstory about em

[trim grotto]

The Iron Lords? Yes. Many. They're a very popular topic.

[ruby pivot]

how tf did i missed that

alright

[trim grotto]

I can answer questions in detail tomorrow. I'm off to sleep.

[ruby pivot]

well all i did was watch about felwinter

all good

[ruby pivot]

its all good

most of the lore stuff i know are tidbits or fun facts

[ember storm]

They LOVE magnesium

[ruby pivot]

who? the iron lords?

[slim girder]

It's just a unique dread. That's really all we have on it.

[fathom goblet]

When will Mc.Goobles von dinkleshits be added into the lore

He will be known as the diabetic vanguard of doom

Opinions?

[jagged badge]

My opinion is that it should go in #👗destiny-fashion

[desert iris]

I dont really know if i remember correctly, but didnt bungie say that the salvations edge weapons were weapons from our memories, twisted by the witness or something like that

[rich wyvern]

where did they say that

[quiet yacht]

Does anyone know what year it is in destiny in terms of lore

[rich wyvern]

no

the traveler appeared in 2014 but i think the dark age lasted for an unknown amount of time

[dim minnow]

we are quite a few centuries in the future

maybe around a millenia

[rich wyvern]

singular millenia is actually millenium

[dim minnow]

and a single century is called a centennial yeah I know

well I didn't

actually

[rich wyvern]

who are the oldest guardians/risen?

there's the obvious saladin and drifter

i think efrideet is still alive? right?

and shaxx

[empty fern]

Yea she’s still somewhere

[rich wyvern]

very weird that they haven't pulled her out for a subplot or even a cameo

wait what happened to the factions again 💀 where tf are they?

did bungie just stop caring about them and write them out, or do you think they will be re-used

[jagged badge]

We don’t know that specifically, I should clarify

Destiny’s timeline is on the whole very undefined in terms of specifics

[rich wyvern]

i really liked some of the lore drops from pale heart

darkness being all about mind, memory, and the past (Already established) combining with light to recreate areas from memories, thoughts, and fears

someone (ikora?) talked about how darkness was acting as a blueprint for the light to create from

you take that into account with the micah vision+osiris theory that the veil and the traveler were once part of a single being

it kinda suggests that while traveler might not be capital G God, if both the veil and traveler were combined you would have a being that could just create anything they imagined

definitely sounds like a god

[dim minnow]

I've been thinking that while the Traveler is the Gardener, it seems to be incomplete

that the true Gardener is both the Traveler and Veil

[rich wyvern]

if i'm reading this stuff correctly, the traveler doesn't really "think" much, micah said even "the act of thought is painful" at one point. like normally when the traveler is terraforming it's probably just allowing areas to grow and change without being "sculpted" if that makes sense

Memory is heavy now. It feels like... [gasps] dense metal, a weight around one's neck. Nothing but... dread and poisonous doubt remains. It fears the act of thought.
I really loved how THIS ^ paralleled previous narratives and themes around guardians having amnesia.

Traveler views memory as a burden, guardians are freed from this burden

They can just act, without being weighed down by their past life

It also has a nice contrast with darkness-- if darkness is the power of the mind, thought and memory, the past etc, then light is instinct without thought, future-focused, potential

[rich wyvern]

more proof that unveiling was just totally lies?

[tough kettle]

thats an interesting idea, the light is like hope and future, and the dark is like past and regret and revenge, reflection on the past

[rich wyvern]

those themes are definitely there! like the entire expansion we have characters like zavala and crow being shown the past and images of regret and pain, but they resolve to look to the future instead

[rich wyvern]

i did read something recently that said "If the Witness was the first knife, then who wielded the knife?" i think ikora said something like it. that idea would suggest that unveiling did sort of happen but the witness wasn't actually the first knife... the first knife would be what cut the traveler from the veil, which happened before the witness existed

[dim minnow]

and there are still plenty of Unveiling connections regarding the Vex

and the Black Garden

[rich wyvern]

bruh it was a craaazy implication that the vex existed before time, from outside of time, and inserted themselves into the world without causality

and bungie has done seemingly Nothing with that

[tough kettle]

the vex dont appear enough imo

like in the story

[rich wyvern]

it's always harder to make an enemy interesting when they do not speak or have an understandable philosophy

vex has always been this enemy faction that is way more engaging in lore books than in story

with this new season, they've placed a coherent leader onto the vex to solve this exact issue

the next season is what, scorn?

i guess to solve the issue of scorn not being updated since they first came out, and fikrul just showing up to be evil and not doing anything new or compelling

[rich wyvern]

sorry, "episode"

[tough kettle]

i always thought the eliksni were the most interesting, the hive are too

[rich wyvern]

the hive are pretty cool, with how they have to do violence to live so it's hard to blame them but then you can't have mercy on them either because they're vicious. then the lucent hive really expanded things by allowing them a "way out" of this cycle of violence, but at the same time most of them serve savathun so they end up trying to kill us anyway.

the spider was cool but eramis is just a little flat to me. she just seems dastardly for no reason.

[dim minnow]

the Vex simply want to turn everything into Vex

and they are curious in a very invasive way

also no concept of morality

they will do anything to anyone in any kind of way to learn how they work

[rich wyvern]

savathun is this villain that is simultaneously very interesting in terms of having actual skills and motivation beyond just blowing things up and just pure evil, but simultaneously boring in a lot of stories because half of her plans are like "i will never explain this plan and you will never understand it! mwahaha!" outside of that 1 plan that resulted in the entire witch queen expansion.

[rich wyvern]

yes but this never shows up in-game!

[dim minnow]

which is why the Ishtar scientist simulations wanted to get freed asap

[dim minnow]

you can argue it is seen in this Episode's story

the way the Conductor acts is very Vex-like

[rich wyvern]

i'll give you that

i'm really glad bungie has given the vex a mouthpiece finally

[dim minnow]

rejecting any version of Chioma she interrogates because they don't match her ideal vision of her wife

[ember storm]

Every vex-plot related season or activity is basically the vex trying another attempt at wiping us out

They don’t particularly like dead ends

[dim minnow]

they are very simple, yet so very complex at the same time

[ember storm]

They’re like spreedrunners who try and clip into a wall a thousand different ways just to shave off a couple seconds

[rich wyvern]

dealing with them is the complex part since their cells are so incredibly invasive and contagious, and stopping them basically means genociding an entire species

[ember storm]

Well genocide isn’t really the issue there

Vex are essentially a walking mechanical disease

The problem is actually trying to do it

[rich wyvern]

that's so racist waltz

[dim minnow]

can you really say they're a living species?

[rich wyvern]

omg guys

they're a people

[ember storm]

I mean they’re more alive than a fungus

[dim minnow]

they're patterns

literally

[ember storm]

Maya’s experiments have proven they can have individuality, right?

[rich wyvern]

you can argue that the purple ones have more sentience

[dim minnow]

the radiolaria is just the housing for them

[ember storm]

But at the same time they’re more slaves than any other vex

Wholly subservient to the will of Maya and her influence

[dim minnow]

I do wonder how they will develop without her

I also wonder what the deal with that one Neomuna Vex mind was

forgot its name

it was the one that killed those children who were hooked up to the cloudARk

the tactics it used were odd for a Vex

[rich wyvern]

wait what

💀

link?

child murder? in my lore books?

[ember storm]

Capybara hour

[dim minnow]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/swarmers?highlight=children

I also recall that Saladin was about to shoot a child but decided not to

only for that to ironically turn out to be the wrong choice

[rich wyvern]

well

"wrong"

[dim minnow]

yeah, the whole situations was fucked

the town cut of the kid's ear and kicked her out because the bandits were making her steal from them

so she came back with her own bandit group and starved the town

then Saladin killed her and her group in a spetacularly brutal rampage

Destiny lore gets real at times

[rich wyvern]

i remember guardian NPCs saying to saladin that not executing even calus of all people was the right thing to do even if it led to problems down the line.

so executing a child... definitely out of the question here

hell, the vanguard isn't even killing immaru.

though it's ironic because "the guardian" is constantly smashing hive ghosts

[ruby pivot]

do we have calus in a prison?

[dim minnow]

no, he dead

[analog torrent]

We killed him in Lightfall

[ruby pivot]

i know about that we killed him in lightfall(i just remembered ngl), what were they talking about letting calus go?

or is it during calus wandering exile

[dim minnow]

Duality dialogue?

when Calus was originally kicked out of the Empire, Caiatl told the coup to exile Calus rather than kill him

[ruby pivot]

aahh right

[crimson rose]

In Crota's End, why does our Guardian die when Engulfed in Darkness reaches 0?

[dim minnow]

too dark

[empty fern]

Can’t see

[crimson rose]

How does too much darkness kill us in the lore? I'm guessing it suppresses the light or something

[dim minnow]

that answer was just a bit of a joke

we don't really get an explanation for it I don't think

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-your-light-fades-away-gif-27008050

https://tenor.com/view/zavala-ghost-gif-27349318

Get weakened

And the hellmouth probably isn’t too healthy to be traversing

[grim kite]

The conductor, maya sundaresh; does.... she have only one arm??

[ember storm]

It’s just a robotic shell she built for herself

She doesn’t actually need the body so it’s not even a complete one

[grim kite]

She doesn't even need the body? Now that just raises more questions with the final cutscene with her.

[slim girder]

She's code. The only reason she has a body was because the echo brought it back due to her remembering Lakshmi since that's a copy of her.

The body was just a way for her to manifest in the physical way to meet us.

[quiet yacht]

Just found out Guardian can’t make babies 😔

[trim grotto]

We don't strictly know that. It's just implied.

[grim kite]

Feel like she could of just control our Guardian, Ikora and Saint 14 from afar then without her being present.

[slim girder]

She wouldn't be able to do it without the echo. That's why she made it into her mantle, she couldn't do anything with the mantle without a body. Now with a body that echo can be used by her.

The echo of command gives her the strength of will to exist within the network and the ability to command others.

[grim kite]

So this echo of command, is it a byproduct of the Witness and the Traveler? Light and dark?

Or is this something the Witness wielded.

[slim girder]

It's a byproduct of the battle with the witness. Light and dark colliding and exploding out from the traveler. Memories of the witness through darkness and given form through the light.

That's how all the echoes were formed

[grim kite]

I see, so Maya has the echo of command, I wonder what Fikrul's echo would be in episode 2.

[slim girder]

It's possible all the echoes behave the same just granting the wielder the ability to command others. But we'll have to see.
They also contain memories from the witness so like with this episode we could very well see traces of another civilisation that was lost to the witness.

[dim minnow]

I'm wondering if it will tie in to Fikrul's desire to wield anything as a tool

like maybe he can harness any element

maybe even harness Life and Death itself

[slim girder]

If it's able to raise scorn then that's a huge issue

[dim minnow]

he can already do that

[trim grotto]

That's kind of his whole deal

[dim minnow]

he's the first Scorn

[slim girder]

I know he can do that but maybe this echo grants some "upgrade" to that if that makes sense like he's able to raise armies in seconds or without the use of dark ether

[grim kite]

Maybe he uses the echo to improve their intelligence? Scorn society?

[slim girder]

I know it's subject to change but I also saw pyramid ships in the episode art for revenant so maybe he's gained control over a small fleet possibly

[grim kite]

Yeah He could probably command some Dread as well

[slim girder]

So far after the battle with the witness yirix is the only one we've seen with a connection to the dread.

[dim minnow]

really?

[slim girder]

Yes

Lemme grab it

@dim minnow top right corner

[dim minnow]

are they flying with him or against him?

almost looks like they are moving towards him

[slim girder]

No idea. But that's why I'm wondering if fikrul has gained control over a small fleet.

[grim kite]

Maybe will see Scorn fighting Dread.

[opal jungle]

Hey guys, I'm new to destiny can you suggest me where do I begin if I wanna go into the lore

[tough kettle]

especially not exos XD

[slim girder]

I guess just find something in the game that looks the most interesting and then look up anything related to it. Tons of different things to explore.

[dim minnow]

the lore is pretty vast after all

[quiet yacht]

There are YouTube videos breaking down the entire timeline

And then you got like lore entries on the side for like cool little stories

My fav shaxx coached a dodgeball game for kids

[dim minnow]

one of the few lore pieces from D1 to be brought into D2

other examples include Vex Mythoclast and Touch of Malice

Necrochasm though I believe had a new lore tab

[quiet yacht]

Like technically the side story stuff can connect back to the main story stuff so really doesn’t matter where you start because at some point it overlaps with something else

Like with the hive , it overlaps with the vex

[dim minnow]

and everything overlaps with the Witness apparent;y

because literally every problem we've had was caused by the Witness in some way

[quiet yacht]

Kinda makes sense he was the big bed for like the entire saga from D1 to D2

Another thing I find cool about the lore some of the sources are not trustworthy as a lot of them are from a point of view of a person

Or we don’t have the full picture

[slim girder]

Yes. It gave us lore on the old hive weapon master. So it looks like Enkaar is the creator of necrochasm and at the time was designing weapons of sorrow of his own to infect the guardians.

At least that's how I interpreted it

[slim girder]

Truth to power go brrrrr

[quiet yacht]

Real

Can’t forget that time Bungie said if you were at this certain power level and you do the dungeon solo you break the curse

Of the dreaming city

Just for it to a toll by the witch queen

[dim minnow]

"pay me 10K Glimmer to pass my bridge"

[quiet yacht]

Real

[rich wyvern]

yes likely all the echoes will involve refreshing old foes like what just happened with the vex

scorn got stasis somewhere along the line so they have been slightly changed but not by much since they were introduced

this will add something else to them, either visually, mechanically, or just plot-wise

the third episode will probably be .. taken? maybe?

or hive.

[small quartz]

how do the scorns immortality Pylons work?

[ember storm]

Well only the purple ones make them invincible which makes me believe it just pumps them full of ether like how Servitors do

[small quartz]

Ether?

[ember storm]

Yknow, the purple chemical thing that all fallen need to survive

The stuff that Servitors make

Which also makes fallen invincible in combat

[small quartz]

uhhhhhhh

[ember storm]

When you headshot a fallen a bunch of purple gas comes out

Ok gimme a sec

Ok so I couldn’t find a good summary so I’ll just spitball one

The atmosphere of the fallen’s homeworld had a specific chemical in the atmosphere called ether, which they need to survive, it’s tied to their growth and overall health

[small quartz]

can I drink it

[ember storm]

It’s not like their version of oxygen, it’s a separate thing that their bodies need to stay sustainably alive

[small quartz]

so

Blood

[ember storm]

Not especially well

[ember storm]

No

It’s a chemical they need to breathe in regularly

[small quartz]

So

Vapes

[ember storm]

Their biology was specifically evolved around it existing in their original atmosphere

They have Servitors around to synthesize it

I’m going to be completely honest with you, I don’t find that funny in the slightest

[small quartz]

thank you

i try

[small quartz]

thats just confusing now

Cuz

[ember storm]

Also something something you should probably check the rules before you get yourself into a situation

[small quartz]

how the fuck can they synth something

thats like

baked into the atmosphere

[ember storm]

They had the traveler around for a long time to help their civilization

Arguably more advanced than humanity got to be

And we invented guns that shot miniature black holes

[small quartz]

if only we knew How

[ember storm]

All we know is that servitors consume “organic compounds” to do so

[small quartz]

I meant the Guns stuff

[ember storm]

Now, a healthy fallen with the proper amount of ether intake is about the size of a normal captain or Mithrax

Few feet taller than a human

Underdeveloped would be the size of a dreg

And an absurd amount of intake would be the size of most fallen bosses

[small quartz]

is there like a giga fallen

[ember storm]

That means they’re hoarding it and will have a very bad time when supplies get low

[ember storm]

Well that’s sorta what you get with scorn

Their ether is corrupted with darkness and just mutates their bodies

Some of them just lose their heads and become walking tumors

[small quartz]

I could just imagine like a dungeon where all the enemies are weaker ogres and scorn, then at the end theres like a ginormous giga fallen and its an insane firefight

[small quartz]

like

so much ether they become something evangelical

[ember storm]

Not really how it works

[small quartz]

a man can dream

[slim girder]

I thought "healthy" eliksni would still be the size of a dreg but it mostly depended on standing within the house how much ether was given. Like at least in the house of light all eliksni should be getting the correct amount of ether to live healthy lives and we see plenty of what I'm assuming are dregs with Mithrax i guess being classified as a captain due to size. Not as big as some other Kell though due to him being fair with ether resources

[ember storm]

Dregs are specifically underdeveloped

Ether is withheld from them besides the bare minimum to keep them alive

Keep in mind that house light individuals don’t follow that kind of command structure and they’re all a healthy size

[slim girder]

So the eliksni we see in house light wouldn't really be classified as dregs? Because just judging by size they seem the same but obviously they're much happier with their lives and even doing tower/helm work.

[ember storm]

They are definitely taller than dregs

[slim girder]

Wretch or vandal size maybe then?

[ember storm]

They are captain sized

They just don’t have big helmets

[slim girder]

Hmm ok then

I wonder if Mithrax if he truly takes that mantle of kell of kells would allow him to grow to the size of some fallen bosses. Like that old archon priest from D1 even.

Even though saint has called him that it still seems he'd like eido to one day hold that title instead

[ember storm]

He specifically would detest growing any further

That’s only possible by gorging yourself on ether to unhealthy amounts

Like how Savathun’s worm grew to insatiable levels, making your body reliant on an unnatural supply of ether is just setting you up for a bad time

[slim girder]

So that's considered unhealthy even if you theoretically had that abundance of ether?

[ember storm]

Your body will never shrink down back to a normal level

You’d be forced to continue using that unhealthy amount

If you ever dipped below that, your body would atrophy, like Namrask

He would be using a big chunk of the house’s total ether supply

Not only is it incredibly unhealthy, it’s just the most selfish thing you could do as a Kell

That’s the opposite of what Mithrax wants

[ember storm]

He comes to Europa almost the size of an Archon priest, but hollow. He needs Ether. If touched, he fears he will crumble into nothing. His arms will dock themselves, his skin will shed. He has nothing except his armor and the thousand-year-old loom clutched in his four arms.

[slim girder]

Can you tell me more about that? I know that name but I've forgotten completely about the lore around that. Also makes me wonder about eramis. Even though she can be ruthless towards us she doesn't seem to hoard ether and i believe she's the same size as Mithrax iirc

Wonder if stasis could change that need considering eramis shattered a servitor

[ember storm]

Namrask was one of the prime devil warriors who helped burn London to the ground

[ember storm]

No, she’s just smart enough to not hoard

House salvation still needs Servitors, they just don’t respect them

They just treat them as simple machines rather than totems representing the traveler

You smack your keyboard when your computer messes up but you still rely on it

Anyway, Namrask was a stereotypical fallen warlord, killing and plundering, hoarding ether, whatever

He even dubbed himself Achilles out of spite to human legends

But he just eventually grew out of it as he watched fallen houses rise and fall over the years due to war

He was alone when he went to try and join salvation for a second beginning, but because it was salvation, he ended up in house light instead

[slim girder]

Still my keyboard isn't my life source and shattering a servitor even for symbolism just sounds like a waste of resources.

[ember storm]

It was one Servitor out of an infinite amount they can just make

There’s a reason house salvation Servitors are all listed as defiled and made out of the bare minimum parts

If they were really desperate they’d just use the stationary apparatus style of Servitor like the one seen in splicer’s helm room

[slim girder]

I guess I'm under the assumption that house salvation is like most other houses where ether is not as readily available like with house light.

[ember storm]

Ether supply has never been a problem

Those at the top of houses just hoarded it to control their ranks

It wasn’t because it was limited, Servitors can literally make an infinite amount with continuous supply of materials

It’s just about authority and control

[slim girder]

Noted.

Wait.

So how come when house light was in the the city for the first time it seemed like they were struggling with ether? And with lakshmis followers sabotaging an ether tank I believe that was a precious resource wasted.

[ember storm]

It’s not instantaneously used

House light didn’t have any actual servitors at first

Hence my mention of the thing in the helm

It’s not like you line up at the Servitor and get your fill

It had to be rationed out equally amongst the house

And before it had the chance to be used, the tanks holding it were destroyed

That is very much a setback

[slim girder]

So house light just didn't have the resources to make servitors at the time? Being on the run looking for a home?

[ember storm]

That’s the gist

[slim girder]

They originally defected from house salvation right? Or am I not remembering it correctly.

[cloud gust]

Why didn’t Jaren’s ghost resurrect him?
Plot?

[blazing wasp]

iirc wasnt jaren the one who got shot with thorn?

the og thorn?

[slim girder]

Jaren was killed by thorn. His light was consumed by thorn.

[trim grotto]

Because Thorn, the original real Thorn, consumed his Light.

[slim girder]

No coming back from that

[cloud gust]

Ah ok

I get that now

Of course, still confused on how Shin was able to use his Ghost
Plot I assume

[blazing wasp]

uh

no thats

thats just how ghosts work, you cant use other peoples ghosts

[slim girder]

Shin did

[blazing wasp]

thats a little vague, and if that turns out to be correct, its fucking shin

[slim girder]

Only known example of this

[cloud gust]

I know that’s not how it works

I don’t think the lore explains it

[slim girder]

I'd need to read up on it but I believe jarens ghost "chose" shin.

[trim grotto]

He didn't. That's the curious part.

[trim grotto]

Common community assumption.

[crimson rose]

Does the Traveler hate the Veil, does it want to be united with it? Does it need to be united with it?

[sleek matrix]

I think the traveler doesn't even remember it was possibly joined with the veil

But with the darkness entering the traveler it is remembering things

The dark and light that is bleeding out of the traveler I do hope there is a proper tie up to that story if anything will come of it

[crimson rose]

So that's a good thing?

[sleek matrix]

It's neither good or bad

The traveler is changing

It's begun a transformation

[rich wyvern]

The Traveler dislikes memory and thought

Finds it cumbersome and painful

And this fusion of light and dark is leading to dangerous shit

like echoes

so in a way its bad

but what's done is done and there are some positives that can come out of it

[ember storm]

What

Who said the traveler dislikes memories and thoughts

[empty fern]

Mars

[dim minnow]

I believe that comes from the fact that the Traveler needs to reunite with the Veil

[dim minnow]

Dreams of Alpha Lupi say that memory weighs heavily on the Traveler and the Visions of the Traveler elaborate on this a bit more

[rich wyvern]

Micah-10

[dim minnow]

The Traveler is an incomplete Gardener and it needs the Veil to be complete again

The question is, what does a complete Gardener entail?

Furthermore, is the Veil the Winnower, or is it something else?

If the Gardener is both Light and Dark, what does that make the Winnower?

[plucky moth]

Oryx is still alive and is going to get revived and turn into the witness by bringing back his taken army and fusing them with him

[dim minnow]

you had me in the first part