That’s just kinda unavoidable
#📚lore-discussion
jagged badge
But we got a really strong story out of it, a really strong performance from Keith and as I said, that speech in Excision
slim elk
You know, I do wonder what would have happened if the truth about Caydes return was revealed
little mist
Every performance Keith does is strong.
slim elk
Zavala already has zero faith in the Traveler
empty fern
Ikora va
jagged badge
What about her?
little mist
Haven't heard him do a bad one. Doesn't mean I'd be enchanted by him in a tutu reading in for a plastic from Mean Girls
jagged badge
little mist
Joke of course, he'd probably nail that too
empty fern
What about her?
No idea just wanted to relate to the convo of npc voices 
analog torrent
Nimbus
Nimbus has a talented af VA but what the fuck did they do to Nimbus 
Voice of Alecto and Tisiphone in Hades I think
jagged badge
The voice modulator isn’t the best yeah
analog torrent
I don't hate Nimbus as a character but holy shit the voice
jagged badge
But I like their actual performance
analog torrent
yeah
jagged badge
Especially some of the more serious moments they get
But also their energy, usually in Terminal Overload
dim minnow
next time they use Neomuna stuff, Nimbus writing will go hard
jagged badge
Speaking of Nimbus, I found it quite heartwarming that they went to Osiris for relationship advice
I love their bond
dim minnow
let's be real though, they got like what? 5 years?
analog torrent
Eris have you seen Dovadah's lore exam with the prize being an emblem? It's quite something
empty fern
Wait, how many lines did Rohan have?
jagged badge
let's be real though, they got like what? 5 years?
Nimbus does cite that as as a reason for it being hard for Cloud Striders to find love yeah
jagged badge
Wait, how many lines did Rohan have?
Probably a fair few over the course of several missions? Why?
empty fern
I see
dim minnow
also funny that Osiris uses the "Reflection Effects" transmat effect
empty fern
Do we like rohans voice? (Even with the modulator)
jagged badge
also funny that Osiris uses the "Reflection Effects" transmat effect
Oh yeah I noticed that
fast tapir
cloudstriders have a rough life
dim minnow
Neomuni are overeliant on them
little mist
Meant to ask while I had discord open, how does Void conceptually fall into the Light category rather than Dark? Is that ever explained other than just for game mechanics?
empty fern
cloudstriders have a rough life
You think anyone remembers the mural on the wall? The big family pic
dim minnow
Meant to ask while I had discord open, how does Void conceptually fall into the ...
Light is tied to the physical domain
fast tapir
but they are also fucking CYBORGS so they are COOL
dim minnow
Void is related to graviational forces
jagged badge
cloudstriders have a rough life
Makes me wonder if we’re meant to find a way to upgrade Nimbus to make them survive tbh
little mist
Light is tied to the physical domain
Isn't void an erasure of the phyical?
fast tapir
Makes me wonder if we’re meant to find a way to upgrade Nimbus to make them surv...
that would be pretty cool
empty fern
Wait
jagged badge
Or if 5 years or so after Lightfall, Nimbus is just gonna die for us permanently
empty fern
Nimbus is absolutely massive, was he like that before all the cyber stuff?
fast tapir
im also wondering if nimbus will ever have another cloudstrider with them
jagged badge
Nimbus is absolutely massive, was he like that before all the cyber stuff?
They, and no, they were like 5ft something
empty fern
im also wondering if nimbus will ever have another cloudstrider with them
In a surprise turn of events shiro is the next strider
jagged badge
It’s the augmentations that make Cloud Striders that size
dim minnow
Destiny 2 lasts long enough to where Nimbus would die
fast tapir
Destiny 2 lasts long enough to where Nimbus would die
real
jagged badge
They, and no, they were like 5ft something
I think it’s dialogue from Quinn Laghari that says this, but I don’t know how to find it
I mean, I could comb through the DLV channel for however long but I don’t wanna do that
empty fern
Destiny 2 lasts long enough to where Nimbus would die
Holy shit could you imagine, if we follow the logic of chronology with seasons, would nimbus die in 5 years real time?
dim minnow
well things happening on days they release is canon
here's a concept, so the Neomuni decide that they should start getting out of the CloudARK since the Witness is done for so now we get to interact with Sid, Sam, Quinn, and Tse
then, we get an ingame dating simulator
empty fern
here's a concept, so the Neomuni decide that they should start getting out of th...
(Insert warframe proto frames image here)
YOU KMEW
dim minnow
where we can choose whichever of them we want to go with
dim minnow
knew what?
empty fern
Warframe 1999 content
empty fern
What, how
dim minnow
what?
dim minnow
Warframe has a fucking dating system
slim girder
https://youtu.be/WdeSbCbm_zE?si=lw80L6dmlNPFn674
He's just like me fr lol
sick yew
Remember when people thought Savathuns Song was actually a threat
sick yew
oooooo scary
arctic iron
remeber that
sick yew
Music
sick yew
she didnt hum ours
I am almost certain the guardian theme is in at least onf of Savathuns boss tracks
So she did indeed hum ours
Get owned
arctic iron
Mans been fighting a bug for over an hour now
i lost it
and am not returning in that room until morning
sick yew
Big sad
ember storm
Remember when people thought Savathuns Song was actually a threat
Technically speaking the general existence of it was probably her biggest generation of imbaru after the dreaming city curse
Even if it didn’t satiate her worm, she was still farming power from it
sick yew
Technically speaking the general existence of it was probably her biggest genera...
Yeah but tbh kinda funny how the community, Byf in particular made it way bigger deal than it ended up being
rich wyvern
Remember when people thought Savathuns Song was actually a threat
This was a thing?
sick yew
Absolutely
rich wyvern
I thought it was just like. One way she killed people
sick yew
All over the Beyond Light year
sick yew
I thought it was just like. One way she killed people
LMFAO
rich wyvern
I guess I do remember people chattering about it
But it never seemed worth looking into
Ohhh you mean the fucking humming thing
I thought you meant the giant shrieker
From the year 1 strike
echo peak
So I just did heist battlegrounds: mars, and we used "PDT refraction cores" to destroy some sort of hive locks on a door. Is there more information on these cores and what they actually are? Also do we have a defined term for the PDT abbreviation?
slim girder
So I just did heist battlegrounds: mars, and we used "PDT refraction cores" to d...
It's just a Rasputin laser core. One of Rasputins many armaments like the valkyrie we got years ago. As for the abbreviation I don't think we'll ever know.
echo peak
It's just a Rasputin laser core. One of Rasputins many armaments like the valkyr...
Thanks Phoenix
trim grotto
A worthy choice
dim minnow
I wonder if Colonel was actually capable of destroying Immaru
slim girder
If humanity already tried to colonize beyond sol that makes me wonder if the "probes" we see in the apollo art are remnants of those attempts.
Do we have any lore about places outside of Sol that humanity knew about aside from places like fundament or torabatl?
dim minnow
Do we have any lore about places outside of Sol that humanity knew about aside f...
there were a few Golden Age stations that were outside of Sol, Spider had a map of them
other than that, we have 2082 Volantis
aka the Forge Star
2082 Volantis is a star that the Vex converted into a massive forge meant for material and power production
it is also a hypergiant meaning that it is massive
according to the lore, it is large enough to "fill the solar system from the Sun to the orbit of Neptune"
and it is also very old
like old as the universe
slim girder
Wasn't that place theorised to be a "homeworld" of the vex?
dim minnow
if you want to get technical, their "homeworld" would be the Black Garden
it is where the patterns that would evolve into the Vex came from
do you guys think the Black Garden could potentially be a Dark version of the Pale Heart?
slim girder
according to the lore, it is large enough to "fill the solar system from the Sun...
Visiting a hypergiant would be pretty cool. And being in the equivalent of vex factory. Sure mercury and nessus are vex converted but something of that magnitude would be awesome to see. Like that's some warhammer level of crazy imo
dim minnow
Visiting a hypergiant would be pretty cool. And being in the equivalent of vex f...
we even have a way of getting there rn
we've even been to where that way of getting in is
slim girder
The glassway portal right?
dim minnow
The glassway portal right?
yes
slim girder
Crazy theory but what if codename behemoth is a reference to volantis?
empty fern
Who?
empty fern
Voltanis
empty fern
Real star or fictional
dim minnow
Vex took a star and made it into a forge to produce materials
empty fern
Ah ok
dim minnow
Real star or fictional
I want to say fictional since the Star is not supposed to still exist, but the Vex's use of it artificially prolonged its lifespan by probably billions of years
empty fern
Speaking of vex, mayas lab was something
dim minnow
though it does seem to be based off of a real location
empty fern
Interesting
dim minnow
Interesting
at least I think it is
slim girder
Destiny does try to keep itself within some bound of reality. Like the planets we visit are real IRL
empty fern
Wonder if mayas collective will reach the forge star (wondering what vex with individualism like qualities will act there)
dim minnow
Dreaming City is even based off of a real asteroid
though said asteroid was transformed into a giant disc
4 Vesta
empty fern
Damnit Vesta
dim minnow
Speaking of vex, mayas lab was something <:trollge:1020160036204462160>
Maya really has turned into a Vex, she just doesn't realize it
empty fern
But yea, forge star, might be the focus of the behemoth mini dlc
What was the other dlc code name?
slim girder
Maya only knows the pattern and anything that doesn't fit is discarded
empty fern
Or the moon 2
dim minnow
Maya only knows the pattern and anything that doesn't fit is discarded
basically
her thinking with finding Chioma was of the same vein
it lines up a lot with how the Vex think
slim girder
I don't think it's pluto. The whole focus is being outside of sol
dim minnow
Pluto is on the edge of Sol
slim girder
But still within what we define as the solar system.
dim minnow
did Bungie specifically say that Frontiers would start beyond Sol?
empty fern
did Bungie specifically say that Frontiers would start beyond Sol?
Mmmmmaybe
slim girder
did Bungie specifically say that Frontiers would start beyond Sol?
No but just being called frontiers tells me that we're going outside of what we know as our solar system into something new. Not just doing something on the edge before going further.
In space outside of sol is always called the final frontier afterall
dim minnow
No but just being called frontiers tells me that we're going outside of what we ...
we haven't even started reclaiming lost places in Sol yet
fast tapir
yeah! when are we going back to venus
slim girder
we haven't even started reclaiming lost places in Sol yet
Do we need to though? based on the final cutscene after excision it looks like everyone is finally content with the state of things in sol. Only thing left is loose ends and the aftermath with the echoes. Might not be the second golden age but I think we're in a very good spot rn
dim minnow
Do we need to though? based on the final cutscene after excision it looks like e...
there has been some implications that we might start reclaiming lost territory
what I'm thinking is that Apollo is about us forging frontiers in Sol while Behemoth is us starting to venture beyond it
slim girder
My theory is that now we have more than enough firepower behind us thanks to the awoken, cabal and eliksni alliance to defend and rebuild in Sol, the guardians efforts can be focused on other worldly matters. That way we can then pave the way for our allies to come with us in the future.
Apollo will be our first venture outside of Sol to do that.
cinder geode
(The vex will always be an issue)
empty fern
Gonna make it a doctor who reference
sick yew
Gonna make it a doctor who reference
New exotic missiong "Doctors call"
A strange signal of an old telephone box appeared on Nessus
empty fern
dim minnow
how would the Doctor fare against the Vex?
eh, he'd probably do pretty well
I mean, he's dealt with some ludicrous type of bullshit
sick yew
how would the Doctor fare against the Vex?
I mean hed bullshit his way through it as per usual
Arent the Vex just kinda like the cybermen tho
dim minnow
similar concept, but that's about it
murderous robots who want to reshape the whole universe in their own image
Vex memes being infectious does make me wonder how they watch up against Doctor Who aliens
like can they overpower Cybermen and Daleks
sick yew
I mean Vex are all about sheer numbers and playing the long game
dim minnow
also about simulating favorable outcomes
sick yew
Im not well versed on Doctor Who lore to know how many Cybermen and Daleks they are compared to the Vex collective
dim minnow
if Daleks and Cybermen aren't paracausal, then that gives the Vex an edge over them
sick yew
True that
dim minnow
Im not well versed on Doctor Who lore to know how many Cybermen and Daleks they ...
not well versed either, but I do know the amount of Daleks changes a lot
sick yew
I dont see why they would be paracausal
dim minnow
sometimes there's a shit ton, other times only one is left in the universe
dim minnow
I dont see why they would be paracausal
I mean, I don't think they are, but I know they are very strong forces
sick yew
In the Who universe probably
sick yew
I think itd be more interesting to put them against another military force
Such as the Cabal
dim minnow
I'm not sure how well the Cabal would do
sick yew
I'm not sure how well the Cabal would do
Tbh I think the Cabal we got to see are a far cry from their prime
The proper Cabal army was probably much stronger
Whether thatd be enough? Idk
dim minnow
I mean, maybe the psions would be useful
in fact, the Psion Flayers are supposedly powerful enough to get Phobos to crash into Mars' surface if need be
you know that would be an interesting plot point
to get back to
sick yew
in fact, the Psion Flayers are supposedly powerful enough to get Phobos to crash...
Realistically speaking
What if all Psions get together and make the moon fall onto the last city
Tf we gon do
Last time they tried that shit with the Almighty we had ages to prepare but the moon aint so far away
dim minnow
Realistically speaking
What if all Psions get together and make the moon fall on...
the moon is much, much larger than Phobos
dim minnow
I saw that
no you didn't
you came here to discuss what foods were exposed to Hive magic
sick yew
Yeah so the Vanguard are putting stasis particles in the last citys water supply
dim minnow
Yeah so the Vanguard are putting stasis particles in the last citys water supply
well yeah, makes the water colder
sick yew
well yeah, makes the water colder
Theres microwitnesses in your head man
dim minnow
Theres microwitnesses in your head man
well yeah, we've been breathing Witness air
in the Pyramids even each molecule of air is tainted by the Witness' influence
sick yew
Theyre in our heads man
slim girder
(The vex will always be an issue)
The vex will unfortunately just be more of a pest and then sometimes an actual threat. Even on neomuna when the cloudark was being made it was noted that they were constantly dealing with the vex but that defences against them were getting better.
cinder geode
I would like to note we still haven't seen combat vex
slim girder
That is true yes. I was just about to bring that up. A combat vex could definitely pose a threat since its design would be for killing unlike other vex that are just builders kinda.
sick yew
I would like to note we still haven't seen combat vex
Just a normal goblin with a glock
cinder geode
Just a normal goblin with a glock
Probably not
cinder geode
I'd say something the size of a minotaur or wyvern at the minimum
slim girder
Combat vex is the size of panoptes
sick yew
I'd say something the size of a minotaur or wyvern at the minimum
Maybe we'll find out one day
Probably wont
slim girder
Hot take i miss panoptes. One of the coolest looking vex. I miss BIG vex like that.
Like that one was a planet seeder
sick yew
Eh I never really liked his design
It was odd compared to the other Vex gonna be real
little wind
How can I access chat for finding group. I want to find people to help me with new exotic missions
candid inletBOT
slim girder
Argos is just a damaged hydra with a tongue tbf. Don't get me wrong though, still a cool boss.
sick yew
Yeah but it fit more in line with how id imagine a Vex mind
A cooler variant of a Vex we knew, causee thatsj ust how they operate
Panoptes just looked odd
slim girder
I think that's the point. Panoptes is supposed to be something we've never seen before. Like a much higher rank of vex.
sick yew
Then they should have went with a cooler look idk
Idk I think its just a bit too silly looking
slim girder
I liked it. Made me think that this is the equivalent of a "god" to the vex. Like one that commands even the axis minds. Or is in charge of a single planets conversion.
sick yew
I mean yes Panoptes is pretty high up but I dont think he was that high in the list
Compared to the entire collective
jagged badge
I would like to note we still haven't seen combat vex
That’s not a thing
Or at least, we don’t know that that’s a thing. The only indication of that being a thing is one line from Calus
And we know how he likes to “bloviate”
sick yew
I mean with potentially infinite subtypes of Vex theres bound to be some more combat focused than others no
jagged badge
Imo they don’t even need to be
The Vex are already great at combat, even if they were just “builders” or whatever
It’s only because of paracausality that they don’t have the edge really
sick yew
Well of course
But who knows what lurks on some other planets
Could very well be that with different environments some developed into a different directions
I kinda like that tbh
How they look so different depending on where theyre from
jagged badge
I think Bungie could very easily introduce “combat Vex”, but at this moment in time, there isn’t anything to concretely suggest they even exist
sick yew
Id actually say the reason we havent really seen the yet is because Bungie doesnt often add new enemies to fight and even lesser often adds new enemy types to existing races
And if they do its just boss type enemies Brigs, Wyverns, Lucent Hive
jagged badge
Id actually say the reason we havent really seen the yet is because Bungie does...
Well that makes the idea of there even being “combat Vex” even more unlikely then
slim girder
I think combat vex do exist. But my reasoning is more a theory that when in the lore Crota encountered "combat vex" it was vex that were designed to combat the hive as they are also a race dedicated to combat. Vex are always built to serve certain needs and tasks. Hell I'm sure there's a vex out there tasked with taking dirt and rock samples from different planets.
sick yew
Well that makes the idea of there even being “combat Vex” even more unlikely the...
Lore wise I dont doubt it
Gameplay wise unlikely
Unless they outright decide to make them semi relevant mini boss type enemies likethe dread
Subjugators*
alltho who knows
Maybe Final Shape encouraged Bungie to experiment more with completely new enemy types
slim girder
They're definitely capable of doing new enemy types and in the frontiers blog posts they did say with the new saga they can introduce new things like factions into the game.
It's a new start so there's a lot they could do and imo I think that's good. Now that we're away from the light and darkness saga something completely new can be made from it.
sick yew
Bungie tends to design their enemies rather uniquely
Sure most of the time you just shoot without much thinking but once you look closer they are pretty diversely made in behaviour
slim girder
Definitely. That's what I like about destinys design. The enemies are pretty unique looking.
trim grotto
no u
slim girder
I'll choose to take that as a compliment
Fr though about enemy design I really liked that the throughline for the dread, you can see that they are clearly supposed to be imprints of the disciples of the witness and twisted versions of enemies we already know.
Still would love to know their language some day though
zenith bison
Are builds in lore?
trim grotto
Are builds in lore?
You'll have to elaborate. If you mean what I think you mean though, not really.
trim grotto
Not in the way they exist in gameplay
blazing wasp
We know gun perks like trench barrel are canon to a extent
No distractions has been described in-universe as something requiring you to aim down sights for a extended period of time for it to "kick in"
heady monolith
No distractions has been described in-universe as something requiring you to aim...
that just sounds like 'locking tf in'
blazing wasp
No distractions has been described in-universe as something requiring you to aim...
Box breathing, not no distractions*
blazing wasp
that just sounds like 'locking tf in'
Locking in boosts bullet dmg
ember storm
Weapon perks exist
Brother Vance got pissy at a Titan for abusing the sundial to get a full choke perfect paradox
heady monolith
Locking in boosts bullet dmg
ofc
blazing wasp
Trench barrel, yea
Tbf trench barrel could be argued as just a barrel modification
Box breathing is something else entirely
But is also in-universe
"modification to make shotgun reload faster" reasonable
"Reloading after killing several people in quick succession makes you shoot stronger" actually fucking deranged
slim girder
Have we ever seen a hive and vex conflict in the game before? I know back in D1 the fallen were sometimes in the hellmouth and the cabal have have had history with the hive but aside from some lore with Crota I don't think we've ever seen the vex and hive fight one another.
2 endless hoards fighting might actually make for an interesting conflict.
blazing wasp
In the books of sorrow yea
slim girder
In the books of sorrow yea
Was this other than the stuff with Crota though? Correct me if I'm wrong but the only time vex have fought hive was when Crota cut a hole in reality and let the vex through leading to him being thrown in by oryx.
And then oryx dealing with the ones that got through
ember storm
And then oryx dealing with the ones that got through
Wasn’t it like a century long war of them constantly invading Oryx’s throne world
slim girder
Wasn’t it like a century long war of them constantly invading Oryx’s throne worl...
Was it? All I remember was oryx just having to fight vex because crota fucked up. Don't recall it taking a century or anything.
ember storm
It was definitely a war that lasted a very long time
It took a worm god literally invading oryx’s meditation space and ordering him to get off his ass to sort it out
empty fern
So vex hive gun from the dreadnaught when
rapid mica
Do you think Xur has kids yet
arctic iron
wet crag
I had to run away to the hospital when I was doing my last Encore run with friends so they had to finish it without me - Did the story really end with Maya running away, and us telling Failsafe "so long cya later" and nothing else?
empty fern
I had to run away to the hospital when I was doing my last Encore run with frien...
Maybe
wet crag
Maybe?
thick bluff
Maybe.
cold onyx
so what is the conductor
ember storm
In what sense
cold onyx
so who is maya
dim minnow
so who is maya
Golden Age scientist
she and her wife, Chioma Esi, were a part of an Ishtar Collective group of researchers who studied the Vex
and they would become the founders of Neomuna
however, Maya grew obsessed with studying the Veil and would commit various unethical experiments with it
in the end, Maya used the Veil to transfer her conciousness into the Vex net which "killed" her
cloud gust
in the end, Maya used the Veil to transfer her conciousness into the Vex net whi...
We just learned that that’s how she died right
This act?
dim minnow
We just learned that that’s how she died right
This act?
we learned about what she did with the Veil back during season of the Deep with the Veil containment logs
cloud gust
I know about that
I’m referring to the last part
dim minnow
however we didn't learn what happened to Maya fter until this act
cloud gust
Yeah
I knew she died but they didn’t tell us how she died cause Chioma didn’t know
frigid sparrow
Did they ever refer to the collective like this in-game
cinder geode
Did they ever refer to the collective like this in-game
The choral vex? Or the commanded vex?
frigid sparrow
The choral vex? Or the commanded vex?
The "Nessian Schism"
They've been previously referred to as compelled/choral vex
I don't think they were referred to as those names when it came to "collectives" the same way something like the sol divisive would (they were not called choral collective or anything like that)
At least not to my immediate knowledge
dim minnow
Maybe without Maya to keep a leash on them, they officially formed their own collective
Sure, it is annoying that Maya just escapes, but I guess it gives Bungie the opportunity to cook with her and the Nessian Schism later down the line.
frigid sparrow
I am quite frankly glad that maya did not die
bungie introducing a vex antagonist and then killing them off with the barest of character exploration would've left a real bad taste
only had a figurehead by the end of act 1, only got the name by act 2, and the character didn't really do much by act 3
the main issue is that the ending of act 3 is just maya sending in another choral mind and then she dips
and because of the nature of episodes we're not gonna see shit from her (especially since I would not expect her to play a major or even minor role in frontiers)
the potential of the echo of command is very interesting both gameplay and story wise because having other enemies fighting alongside the vex is pretty cool since we've barely been able to see consistent enemy teamups so that just adds a bit of potential for enemy encounters, but having unrelenting control over more life outside of the vex could be interesting for future story beats and the vex's potential to invade the spaces of the other factions through manipulation of their forces
I think it'd be cool if an early portion of frontiers and us exploring more planets would be the threat of the nessian schism trying to branch out through maya's use of the echo of command forcing other factions into bringing out vex/radiolaria to wherever we go
low gyro
hmm. if the vex gain individuality from the formation of the nessian schism collective, that means....
proper vex ally npc possible?
trim grotto
I'd say it's more plausible than ever before.
cloud gust
I did wish that they changed the Nessus Patrol area to reflect the Episode
trim grotto
yeah a lot of us do
cloud gust
I am curious as to what the fuck is stopping Maya from committing shenanigans wherever she is
cloud gust
Like what’s stopping her from fucking around with the Europa VexNet if that’s a thing
slim girder
She can't reach that far
She only had dominance over the nessus vex. It was her plan however to spread her influence through the vex net
empty fern
Holy shit
I got a scindo prime blade?
(Guy needed some relics for Corinth barrel and I asked for prime junk)
slim girder
Wrong server M8
eager trout
Could The Conductor be the reason Vex Mythoclast exists?
trim grotto
Could The Conductor be the reason Vex Mythoclast exists?
Well, it's plausible.
dim minnow
still, it's a theory that would have little backing to it
eager trout
At the same time it's the only possibility based on what we currently know
empty fern
Hah no
eager trout
Based on what I currently know
blazing wasp
still, it's a theory that would have little backing to it
What backing even is there to it
trim grotto
What backing even is there to it
Vex weapon shaped for human hands by an unknown creator, with known timeline shenanigans being involved so we don't even know when it was created.
Could be her just as much as anyone
blazing wasp
About as likely it's another timeline banshee
slim girder
Could be her just as much as anyone
Wasn't there a theory a long time ago in warmind where people thought worldline zero was related to vex mythoclast because of the design similarities? Specifically the 3 dot design on the side of both weapons.
trim grotto
I've heard it before, but it's a thin thread to follow.
But, if we were to follow it, then that'd suggest Elsie was involved.
slim girder
That's what I was thinking. That the mythoclast is from one of Elsie's dark futures involving the vex.
And that worldline zero since it had the same design was also related to her in a way because of the lore tab.
mental ferry
So are we not gonna talk about the nightmares on Nessus?
slim elk
So are we not gonna talk about the nightmares on Nessus?
Old news.
What is there to talk about?
mental ferry
Oh then I guess I missed it then
ember storm
So are we not gonna talk about the nightmares on Nessus?
When Shadowkeep released all the year 1 lost sectors got turned into nightmares
slim girder
So are we not gonna talk about the nightmares on Nessus?
Shadowkeep stuff
cloud gust
When Shadowkeep released all the year 1 lost sectors got turned into nightmares
Damn I thought that was with Season of the Haunted
Then again I returned from Warmind with The Witch Queen
slim girder
Damn I thought that was with Season of the Haunted
Then again I returned from Wa...
Shadowkeep was when the nightmares first appeared in the game. Season of the haunted was pretty much just more of that.
cloud gust
I know all that
worldly river
Did they ever refer to the collective like this in-game
This is the second time they've canonized the name of a Vex Collective in a twitter post
If I had a nickel yadda yadda
They also officially canonized "Sol Collective" as the name of the main group of Vex in D2 a year ago after fans had been using the term for at least 5 years
empty trout
Is Hakim related to Zavala by blood?
empty fern
Is Hakim related to Zavala by blood?
No, adoption
empty trout
ight thanks
jagged badge
Is Hakim related to Zavala by blood?
Zavala and Safiyah found him orphaned by the Fallen and raised him as their own
ember storm
Like one of those cat distribution stories you hear about
tough kettle
Like one of those cat distribution stories you hear about
orphan distribution system
sick yew
Haver there been any pointers in the ingame narrative on how next episode will play out?
And teasers or stuff besides what we got from the Bungie streams?
blazing wasp
well, crow said he's looking after fikrul right before echoes started
sick yew
Would make sense
Curious which one tho
I would have guessed he had the Echo of Control
Maybe something involving immortality?
blazing wasp
well he's kinda already psuedo-immortal
sick yew
He yeah
But his legions
blazing wasp
making every scorn basically the fanatic's kind of immortal?
that would
that would be pretty fucking bad yeah
sick yew
mhm
I mean I cant really think of something else that would fit him
Echo of corruption?
Oh nah I got it
Echo of screebs
Bros gonna blow up Sol with a billion screebs
ember storm
I’m pretty sure it’s going to be focused more around some kind of evolutionary thing
ember storm
Like scorn aren’t just mindless puppets anymore, they’ve been learning
It’s a vampire hunting seasons
Vampires aren’t just zombies
blazing wasp
Like scorn aren’t just mindless puppets anymore, they’ve been learning
Echo of democratic elections
sick yew
ember storm
Echo of democratic elections
That would be the reverse, Uke
sick yew
The Echo of Capitalism
blazing wasp
<:godno:839787513618104330>
this emote brings back both joy, and fear
blazing wasp
sick yew
It’s a vampire hunting seasons
Echo of blood
halcyon umbra
Hello! :>
sick yew
Holy shit its the speaker
rich wyvern
Idk if I was being stupid but when caiatl first appeared I didn’t realize she’d end up being on our side
ember storm
That was the intended reaction
rich wyvern
Ok cool I’m not a mental defective
ember storm
She showed up and immediately demanded the surrender of the vanguard to absorb guardian forces
rich wyvern
Is there a reason she hasn’t started dating zavala yet
Oh they’re waiting for February 🤔
ember storm
Nah crimson days is dead and buried
fathom goblet
The sweet business lore is cool
neon ridge
Does the seasonal story end with the collecting 8 anomalies in encore? I don't see any other missions
dim minnow
Does the seasonal story end with the collecting 8 anomalies in encore? I don't s...
Yeah, the epilog is pretty much the end
Unless we get something new in the last few weeks
fathom goblet
Is their a lore reason I don't like savala?
trim grotto
He's probably annoyed that you misspelled his name.
heavy ivy
Is Truth to Power reliable?
fathom goblet
He's probably annoyed that you misspelled his name.
Maybe he should eat more crayons like me
Than I would
trim grotto
Is Truth to Power reliable?
Infamously not. Yet, it isn't to be totally dismissed. Read through the whole thing, and then the final part of the Hidden Dossier, the transcript between Ikora and Arach Jalaal.
Truth To Power is truth swathed in lies. The centre was key.
empty fern
It’s a maybe
trim grotto
Almost forgot the link haha
(Also, if you're unaware, this is the second half of the Dossier. I can provide the first half if you're curious.)
dim minnow
do video games still get made in destiny?
Neomuna has that shitty arcade
dim minnow
though I believe the Last City does not have that kind of stuff
dim minnow
what do they not have Pacman
no, it's just a bad lost sector
trim grotto
though I believe the Last City does not have that kind of stuff
Well, they still make movies, at least.
small quartz
are movies called movies or do they have another name
trim grotto
Movies.
small quartz
lame
trim grotto
I mean
I'm not sure what you expected
dim minnow
just a lil name change is cool
keep in mind that they were inventing movies
small quartz
ik
dim minnow
the Star Wars Visions short they made was mid
trim grotto
Korra also isn't set on Earth
Or not one based on actual history
I don't know much about it
trim grotto
Destiny, pre-Golden Age, is just... yeah, just the Earth we know.
dim minnow
Antarctica no longer exists
small quartz
yes it does...
trim grotto
You really get stuck on that one don't you Dova
small quartz
i will cope
dim minnow
yes it does...
not in the Destiny universe
dim minnow
You really get stuck on that one don't you Dova
Panama Canal also dried up
small quartz
Oh good
dim minnow
now called the Panama Ravine and it does lead to the Last City
jagged badge
i mean in Korra theyre called Movers
Korra enjoyer!!
dim minnow
nah, Eris likes Korra I think
trim grotto
Eris does, in fact, like Korra
jagged badge
tough kettle
avatar the last airbender is better
heady gyro
also the studio that makes Korra sucks at writing
Nuh uh, they were on short time
tough kettle
they didnt do a great job anyways sometimes you can still make something decent on a time crunch
dapper moss
wow what a terrible ending to this episode
small quartz
its majority because its right in this case
Ya Basic
tough kettle
you already said that....
sick yew
sleek matrix
wow what a terrible ending to this episode
Seems to me bungie didn't just wanna kill her off completely
dapper moss
shelving her for another day obviously
sick yew
Would have been a bit odd to kill her off this early
dapper moss
im just pissed we did all that work and didnt get the echo
i dont mind that sundaresh didnt die
sick yew
I mean what would we even do with it
Throw that shit into the vanguard vault
And never touch it again
dapper moss
I mean what would we even do with it
some crazy shit
sick yew
Thats not the vanguard way
sick yew
Shits far too dangrous for the vanguard
Put that shit away and never look at it again
Just like Siva (Outbreak)
ember storm
Shits far too dangrous for the vanguard
You say that like we didn’t just leave the last remnants of active SIVA in an unsecured vault for like three years
sick yew
Unsecured is the wrong term
Trevor was there
But yes thats exactly my point
Throw it in a vault
Forget it exists until it becomes a problem
sick yew
I swear the vanguard would leave the original thorn in some random broom closet if they had gotten their hands on that damn thing
ember storm
Just had an idea
What if a ghost found their risen for the first time and they were still bones
And the ghost went in like their ribcage or something before resurrecting them
Would the ghost be safe
fast tapir
Would the ghost be safe
why do you think like this
blazing wasp
It's not a uncommon way of thinking
ember storm
why do you think like this
In art class learning about anatomy and just saw the open ribcage and had a thought
Like you could fit a ghost in there
fast tapir
yeah
ember storm
Oh what if you take off a ghost’s shell
fast tapir
but what if the ghost is just stuck in there
ember storm
And replace an exo’s eye with the ghost
Would they both be connected to the same vision
You could make a functioning ghost shell out of human bones
fast tapir
that would be interesting
rich wyvern
I always wondered about felwinter’s helm
Does the half dead ghost warn him of things
Or can he somehow see through it
rich wyvern
what exactly is happening here
can someone who knows more about the current vex arc explain this to me
ember storm
How much of the episode have you played
rich wyvern
Like none
I've just been spoiling myself because Failsafe's voice is annoying and I'm procrastinating the questline
rich wyvern
You have false memories
fathom goblet
I'm just saying we shoulda let the witness finish off the fallen
fast tapir
alright who made lakshmi a discord account?
fathom goblet
Four armed freaks don't belong in the tower 
dim minnow
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/choir-of-one
The Conductor is using the Echo of Command to turn a regular Vex into a Choral one
rich wyvern
The Conductor is using the Echo of Command to turn a regular Vex into a Choral o...
I got that part, but what is special about the new vex aside from being purple?
dim minnow
I got that part, but what is special about the new vex aside from being purple?
they are more individualistic
fathom goblet
Four armed freaks don't belong in the tower <:why:1020354491591184434>
CABAL NEITHER must I say
I don't like aliens
fathom goblet
Lol
fathom goblet
IM JUST SAYING WE SHOULD HAVE LEFT THEM TO FEND FOR THEMSELVES
Especially the fallen
Only the awoken are acceptable and they are walking a thin line
analog torrent
The other two Dregs gather around their companion, watching him eagerly. Now and then, they look at me. The one holding the spear has let her grip grow slack, and the spear is tipped down to point at the ground. The Fallen have surprisingly expressive faces. What I pick up from them is not aggression or hatred, but fearful anticipation.
The Dreg with the mask nods again, not discouraged by my silence. This time, when he speaks, I can hear his hope, even through the mask: "Why did the Great Machine leave us?"
I stare back at him.
Any fear I felt before dissipates. Instead, what I feel is a grief partially forgotten in the chaos of trying to survive—and a deep and abiding kinship with the enemies who have pursued us.
My voice is very quiet when I finally speak.
"I don't know."
The other two Dregs look at their friend, waiting. His expression twists with confusion, and then disappointment. There's anger there, too, but it's overpowered by something else. A very familiar sorrow.
We sit in silence for a long time.
analog torrent
Is there an explanatory gap between knowing the history of Eliksni violence against humanity and living through it? Is there a gap between experiencing full-sensorium captures of that night and actually being there, in London, when the Devils finally broke the wall?
There must be. Qualia of pain and hate.
...
I wonder if Ransom would still push for the "complete extirpation of invasive Fallen from the system" if he lost his memory of all those centuries, if he had to relearn it all from books. What if he were like a newborn Guardian again? Richly educated on our bleak history with the Eliksni, but not scarred by the experience of it?Would he still arrive at the same unshakeable conviction that they all have to go?
Or would he be missing some irreducible qualia, some pearl grown around the grit of first-person suffering?
It all means one thing. Darkness remembers. Light forgets.
It is about memory. Memory and forgiveness.
The prisoner's dilemma. A relic of the days of the high carceral system.
The only way out is a moment of grace. Cooperation, spontaneously and for no reason, after 20 years of war. Forgiveness without cause. Unilateral mercy. Declaring peace.
This is the value of forgetting. Forget they hurt you. Forget what's rational. Do what's right.
Now, if the other village takes advantage of your disarmament, you will look like a damn fool. But if the other side stops fighting too, both of you can go back to the maximum global good: 1,800 bushels of wholesome grain a year.
Imagine that those bushels of grain are peoples' lives, and you understand the urgency of grace. You feel the need to forget the past.
Ransom's grievance with the Eliksni is a rational one, but it could doom us to another cycle of conflict.
"Here I prove myself right. Here I wager that, given power over physics and the trust of absolute freedom, people will choose to build and protect a gentle kingdom ringed in spears. And not fall to temptation. And not surrender to division. And never yield to the cynicism that says, everyone else is so good that I can afford to be a little evil."
fathom goblet
My opinions towards fallen will not change
They can still eat my hammer
Where my anti fallen propaganda
tough kettle
Im an eliksni enjoyer
Cabal are chill too
Regardless of species if its nice i like it
fathom goblet
Bro is my direct opposite
tough kettle
i would smooch mithrax if given the chance
fathom goblet
I'd kill mithrax at any possible moment
tough kettle
But hes so nice
fathom goblet
He has four arms.
tough kettle
four arms is badass bro
fathom goblet
Four arms to many
tough kettle
That suggests you would rather him have no arms, and for that i have taken away your arms.
fathom goblet
Ah darn it ):
fringe knoll
Fore arms is fore warned
fathom goblet
I'm just saying
Last time those four arm freaks were in the tower it didn't end well
trim grotto
Last time those four arm freaks were in the tower it didn't end well
I realise you're doing a bit, but they've been in the Tower for three and a half years. Also, Misraaks was actually there aiding us during Zero Hour.
tough kettle
I "witness"ed when they came to the tower! I thought it was kind of funny that Lakshmi died in that season
fathom goblet
I realise you're doing a bit, but they've been in the Tower for three and a half...
Ight misraaks is now ight with ne
trim grotto
Ight misraaks is now ight with ne
Right. And all of the Eliksni in the Tower are part of the House of Light, which Misraaks is the Kell of.
fathom goblet
Okay so the house of light is on the line like the awoken
Mainly because they don't have qualms killing fallen
trim grotto
What, exactly, is the problem with Awoken?
dim minnow
Awoken are somewhat alright, my problems with them stem mainly from Petra
fathom goblet
What, exactly, is the problem with Awoken?
Crow
trim grotto
That explains jack and diddly.
fathom goblet
Free my boy he ain't do nothin
He dared to share a body with uldren
Same face same crimes
trim grotto
Eris is correct
That is a massive core concept of Destiny you're defying
Plus the entire point of resurrection without memory
rich wyvern
You’re being trolled
fathom goblet
I hope no real grudge against ab you then I just like to be a little goober
Besides the fallen because if zero hour and ny hatred for that mission
trim grotto
You’re being trolled
I did lead the conversation with awareness of that
But it passes the time
ruby pivot
imagine if someone said "siva sucks" and we all loses our collective minds
rich wyvern
there's been a few hints that there's a threat of oryx somehow being revived/reincarnated
insane theory: the threat becomes real, but to prevent this, eris takes his "spot" per se
this comes so dangerously close to retreading season of the witch that i don't know if they'd do it
ruby pivot
possible, though they might focus on xivu arath
heady monolith
they have to soon, or at least in the near future
im so curious how we would stop xivu arath, she literally gets stronger with war and she doesnt seem particularly happy with us since severing her with her throne world
quiet yacht
this comes so dangerously close to retreading season of the witch that i don't k...
what about toland ?
he seems like he might take control
due to the fact, he hates how we don't claim the taken king title
i reckon 3rd ep his the big bad for it
trim grotto
Toland hasn't taken control of anything in centuries. Why start now? Unless he gets an Echo, I don't see that changing. He's been content with his existence as a sailer of the Sea of Screams, a disembodied scholar.
sick yew
Ayo damn imagine Toland getting one of the echoes in episode 3
Tho tbh he isn't exactly evil
He's always been just kinda there
slim girder
Tho tbh he isn't exactly evil
He's just petty and based on lore kinda crazy
I wouldn't say he's immoral like clovis but joining eris fireteam not to avenge their friends and instead just for research purposes is a pretty selfish move even.
heady monolith
I wouldn't say he's immoral like clovis but joining eris fireteam not to avenge ...
i mean i wouldnt classify it as selfish unless he was outright doing things that actively sabotaged the fireteam
jagged badge
i mean i wouldnt classify it as selfish unless he was outright doing things that...
He was meant to be their guide. He was the Hive loremaster at that time. And he abandoned them to pursue his own devices
heady monolith
He was meant to be their guide. He was the Hive loremaster at that time. And he ...
okay NOW i see where the selfish thing came from
daring crescent
has rasputin ever used SIVA to help humanity? or has it only been used against?
trim grotto
During the Golden Age, sure. It was a colony construction nanite.
daring crescent
did he use it for attacks like he did during the game?
or was it only meant for construction back then
trim grotto
SIVA was never used as a weapon until the Ironsbane. Even then, Rasputin never attacked us with it in game. SIVA, as a threat in Rise of Iron, was hacked and controlled by the Devil Splicers, a band of Fallen who splintered off from the House of Devils.
Rasputin only weaponised it against the Iron Lords in order to kill Lord Felwinter.
ember storm
has rasputin ever used SIVA to help humanity? or has it only been used against?
SIVA wasn’t something made for Rasputin to begin with
It was just a tool he took control over once since nobody else could
He only used it against like 8 iron lords specifically because it was a trap for felwinter
The hundreds of others that were killed on the journey to the replication chamber were from his own standard firepower
slim girder
Rasputin doesn't need Siva to deal with threats. We've had Zavala tell us that Rasputin scattered a teams bodies across the Skywatch. I believe there's also lore of him dropping a warsat on someone.
Aside from combat frames Siva looked like more of a type of indoor use weapon. He released it inside a chamber there was only one exit from and clearly the iron lords despite shooting and swinging axes at it, it did nothing.
vagrant bridge
Rasputin doesn't need Siva to deal with threats. We've had Zavala tell us that R...
Yep, dropped a warsat on felwonter iirc
slim girder
No. Felwinter died to siva during the iron lords raid as part of the trap.
We have proof of this as well back in season of the worthy showing felwinter swarmed by siva in the form of holograms when exploring Rasputins bunkers
ember storm
No. Felwinter died to siva during the iron lords raid as part of the trap.
He did drop one on felwinter at least once
He tried to kill him numerous times, SIVA was the final and successful attempt
slim girder
Didn't know that part. I thought felwinter just went about business as normal until Rasputin decided his time was up and then lured him in with Siva.
daring crescent
how do guardians get their class? is it just predetermined based on something? do they choose?
ember storm
Personal choice dependent on what comes to them naturally
Classes are more just social constructs than anything else, or combat styles
It’s not like “you are [this] so you have to do things in one particular way”
It’s more of you’re more naturally drawn to this kind of method, so you call yourself that
fringe wasp
anyone think i am tripping or might some of my ideas be true, so basically it's about proph the dungeon
it still has many secrets that don't appear at first glance, so am i tripping or
through the entire dungeon we chase a dark entity, namely kell echo. it kind of represents the witness as we chase it through the entirety of the dungeon in a way, especially with some other discoveries people made about the final boss the way it's fought and the general dps phase layout but thats a different matter rn. what i thought is
the first encounter is a giant sphere with a triangle made of light inside of it, kell echo escaped first into it, so we follow into a place (the wasteland) which shows fragments of many places we have been at such as IO for example, doesn't it kinda draw parallels how we chase the witness which was always ahead of us into the pale heart which is also a place that basically shows the same thing, the memories we have made along the path through invading the traveler/going through a portal leading us to the wastelands of prophecy which we entered though a sphere with a portal inside?
it's really damn abstract but it would make sense in a way
that might also be me trippin hard but the last platform of dps is structured somewhat simliar with the stairs and the potal being on a same location as the dps platform
either it's coincidence or foreshadowing
dusty jolt
Could be both
fringe wasp
also another thing that kinda caught my attention is the word "entopy" being the debuff that kills you in proph and the last word the witness said before completely losing it
slim girder
Prophecy did foreshadow some stuff absolutely that we have now discovered, like the imagery of the portal to the pale heart and chasing the kell echo.
However prophecy at least in my eyes was to show us that a combination of light and dark would be needed to win against what was coming, which we now know was the witness.
Some things might look similar but I don't believe every single bit of prophecy was predicting something like the shape of a DPS platform and more just the imagery in those places.
thin spruce
Hey guys.. is Savathuns worm (the one we removed to make her mortal) the same worm that drove her into the depths of Fundament?
slim girder
Hey guys.. is Savathuns worm (the one we removed to make her mortal) the same wo...
No
It was a familiar her father found
thin spruce
I knew that, that's the worm Rhulk left for them to find. Whatever happened to that worm?
Oh it was eaten for their transformation into Hive Gods, I think
fringe wasp
Some ideas might be pure coincidence yeah, ig wish we would get more info about the nine
slim girder
Some ideas might be pure coincidence yeah, ig wish we would get more info about ...
It'll all be revealed eventually I'm sure. The nine are just watching us iirc to see what we do. But they could make themselves known at any point
fringe wasp
Yeah it kinda feels like they are omnipresent ig
slim girder
Oh it was eaten for their transformation into Hive Gods, I think
I believe it was just calcified and then we would later find it in savathuns throne world in the temple dedicated to her when she was named Sathona.
ember storm
it still has many secrets that don't appear at first glance, so am i tripping or...
To be completely clear, the Nine have zero prophetical power
They are not omnipotent by any definition
The entire pretense of the dungeon is us, drifter, and Eris asking the nine for their input on the nature of light and dark
The Nine, being entities distanced from both powers and the general existence of life itself, would have a unique perspective, hence the question
Their answer was just that in their eyes, the difference between light and darkness didn’t matter
People could use either for good and bad things
Circles and triangles have been representative of light and darkness since we first saw the pyramids
That’s just why the structures look like that
slim girder
In drifters words they are means to survival. Not about saints or sinners/good or evil.
ember storm
And contrary to popular belief, I don’t think the bosses are really representative of anything else
The Kell Echo has no visual features similar to Eramis, no behaviors, nothing
slim girder
And contrary to popular belief, I don’t think the bosses are really representati...
Some people think the kell echo was supposed to be eramis
ember storm
The end of Season of Arrivals already directly referenced house salvation with the room full of statues and the fallen being the only ones covered in shadow
The Nine literally have no special powers like that
They wouldn’t even know Eramis existed, let alone that we’d be facing her
fringe wasp
Circles and triangles have been representative of light and darkness since we fi...
wasn't that kind of a thing before we even knew pyramids are a thing? genuine question if thats somewhat relevant
ember storm
wasn't that kind of a thing before we even knew pyramids are a thing? genuine qu...
That’s an arrow
That’s not representing any kind of light or dark themes
That’s literally just an arrow on a wall indicating a direction
slim girder
The idea that that symbol was telling us what would happen a decade later is just a WILD theory
fast tapir
i pointed that out a few months ago because it was silly but yeah its just an arrow 😔
ember storm
The idea is that circles are the most complex shapes possible with a potentially infinite amount of sides
Triangles are the simplest shape you can make, 3 sides, no more and no less
thin spruce
Sorry for the off topic questions, guys. I'm just getting back into D2 after stopping at Beyond Light, and I'm now getting fully into the lore since the light/darkness saga is coming to a close.
Do you guys think Byf's 10h lore video is good/accurate? Other than in-game lore cards, what's a good way to keep up with all the story stuff that's happening in the background/off screen?
ember storm
It’s just years old now
Even if it wasn’t full of byf moments where he just sprinkles in his personal theories in without clarifying they are indeed theories
At the end of the day, not a whole lot of lore is actually that important
fringe wasp
hm aight
ember storm
You don’t need to be constantly in the know of everything
thin spruce
I know. But I want to be.
Which is why I'm asking.
What's the best way to immerse myself in the lore that I can't play?
Did you guys just keep up with the lore cards and events as it all came out? Or is there anywhere that has solid lore content that isn't theorized?
slim girder
The nine absolutely knew what was coming at the time but they couldn't possibly predict everything exactly.
Like they handed drifter a coin with a pyramid on it. That's probably the most they knew.
thin spruce
It’s just years old now
The one he made right before TFS?
ember storm
I know. But I want to be.
It is physically impossible to be, is my point
There’s literally thousands of lore entries
You cannot go through and keep up to date with them all
Most are literally just not important at all
You don’t need to go about it that way
thin spruce
I certainly can? If they're published, I can read them lmao.
Why are you telling me how to go about my own destiny experience? Do you know of a good lore resource or not?
It may take months or years, but I certainly CAN read them all
ember storm
If you really want me to illustrate my point, fine
slim girder
You could never know all that information to a T. I think for any lore nerd the most you can do is recall what a lore subject is about like if you asked me about the books of sorrow i could tell what they're about and a very basic story. But I can't recite them to you word for word
thin spruce
I read the BoS as they came out
ember storm
That wasn’t my point
You can definitely just go on a binge and read every little grimoire card or lorebook that’s ever been released
Is that actually going to be insightful? Probably not
thin spruce
I agree that 80% won't be insightful. But 100% of it is relevant and what I was asking for
ember storm
Relevant how
thin spruce
It relates to the world of Destiny
And what has happened to date
There are many, many things I don't know. And I'm sure I'll learn a lot of minor useless BS from these cards. That's what i like learning, too, as well as the big actual lore events.
ember storm
If you want the big events, look at ishtar’s timeline
slim girder
So you just want a huge refresher basically?
ember storm
But to get back to my point, it probably won’t do you much good to stop at Beyond Light and then start lore binging
thin spruce
I want a thorough, fine-tooth comb over the events of the Destiny timeline. Even if it takes me years to catch up, idc
ember storm
The lore is released as the content released to give context as things went along
You should be doing it intermittently if you want an actually good narrative experience
slim girder
I want a thorough, fine-tooth comb over the events of the Destiny timeline. Even...
Watch the 10hr byf video then. And then after that go through Ishtar collective and binge read. That's probably your best option if you're looking for absolutely everything.
If that's really what you desire
Or enjoy sinking into that abyss
thin spruce
I've returned after stopping at BL. I've played through every expansion. I have a solid timeline of what's going on, but there are a LOT of things that I don't know. And honestly every time I try to learn about 1 thing, I have to learn about 3 other things first. Usually NPCs I've never heard of and their affiliations
So it's not like I have 0 knowledge, I just wanted a full resource that I can say "ok I know that, I can skip that." Or "who the hell are the Seraphs and why were they competing with the Ishtar?"
vale bluff
Wsg
thin spruce
If I have any direct questions I'll ask them here.
For example, why/how did Xol get turned into a sniper rifle? And why does Whisper look taken if Xol was hive?
ember storm
Taken are naturally drawn to powerful masters
Oryx first earned the secret to taking after killing a worm god
He was the first and only hive to actually get control over them
frigid sparrow
If I have any direct questions I'll ask them here.
For example, why/how did Xo...
Xol sorta turned himself into the gun so we'd use him and feed him as a tldr
slim girder
So it's not like I have 0 knowledge, I just wanted a full resource that I can sa...
All of that stuff you'll find in Ishtar collective. We can't explain absolutely everything so my advice is to just start reading if you want to find out.
thin spruce
He was the first and only hive to actually get control over them
I know about Auryx's killing of Akka and the books of sorrow, and the subsequent communion with the darkness that turned him into Oryx
frigid sparrow
Aiat 🫡
thin spruce
Wait did Oryx gain control of the Taken or did he create the taken?
slim girder
@frigid sparrow your pfp couldn't have had more perfect timing. I'm literally watching hollow knight lore from mossbag rn.
thin spruce
I thought he created them straight up
slim girder
He gained the power to take
ember storm
That was the whole point
frigid sparrow
Wait did Oryx gain control of the Taken or did he create the taken?
Taking is a power from the darkness, it's just the first time we've seen the taken
ember storm
The worm gods already had knowledge of the taken before oryx killed Akka
Taken being drawn to Xol isn’t really a special development
They’d been left without a master for years after oryx died, and Savathun was only able to distantly command some
When Xol just popped up they flocked to him like seagulls
thin spruce
Taken being drawn to Xol isn’t really a special development
I didn't say it was? I asked how Xol was converted into a sniper
ember storm
I didn't say it was? I asked how Xol was converted into a sniper
In the lore tab of the sniper in question I just linked
It literally gives the whole story
thin spruce
I know, it was already answered by someone else lol
ember storm
“Killing” Xol in the Warmind campaign was a farce, but it gave Xol the idea of turning himself into a weapon for us to claim
With that he would get an endless amount of tribute from the best killer he’d ever met, sustaining him for the foreseeable future
thin spruce
Okay, all of that makes sense. But Xol himself was not taken, right?
frigid sparrow
turns himself into a gun with the intentions of being used to kill hundreds of thousands of living beings
Boss dps heavy sniper rifle
ember storm
Okay, all of that makes sense. But Xol himself was not taken, right?
There’s a distinction between the power to Take and just being Taken
Taken are what happens when the power is used on you and changes you
thin spruce
That's not the question I asked.
ember storm
Whisper was made by a combination of inherent worm god magic and also the power of the taken
It is literally Xol in a fancy little shell
He is still alive and continually gaining power as the gun
The taken power just gives it extra oomph and also make it a more shiny key to dangle in front of our faces
frigid sparrow
He is still alive and continually gaining power as the gun
Or in my case rotting in the vault
blazing wasp
It's also very poetic hes used as a means to effectively kill oryx
thin spruce
Why do you answer people if you don't directly answer their questions, and go off on a tirade that still doesn't answer what I asked?
ember storm
You know oryx basically kicked his son out of the house for getting a cool boyfriend
ember storm
Why do you answer people if you don't directly answer their questions, and go of...
Because I’m literally explaining it?
frigid sparrow
Why do you answer people if you don't directly answer their questions, and go of...
They answered your question lol
ember storm
I thought you wanted to know everything
blazing wasp
Okay, all of that makes sense. But Xol himself was not taken, right?
Let me break down their answer for you if you didn't understand it: no
ember storm
I’m explaining why the gun looks taken even though Xol isn’t a Taken being
blazing wasp
Let me break down their answer for you if you didn't understand it: no
As per their message
ember storm
Because A the gun is Xol
frigid sparrow
It is *literally* Xol in a fancy little shell
^
thin spruce
I know
frigid sparrow
thin spruce
Again, not answering my question
ember storm
So then the follow up question would be “why does a being that’s alive look taken if they’re not taken?”
Hence my explanation
thin spruce
What?
ember storm
You literally asked whether or not he’s taken
He’s not
And since he’s still covered in taken energy, I gave the explanation
ember storm
What exactly is the problem
ember storm
The first time my question has been answered
Did you just not read what I typed or what
frigid sparrow
The first time my question has been answered
You're being unnecessarily cheeky for someone who didn't read the numerous times this specific question was answered
thin spruce
You explained the distinction between taking and being taken
That's not what I had asked
I wanted a clear yes or no to the question I asked
ember storm
And you just ignored the rest of the explanation after interrupting it
frigid sparrow
You explained the distinction between taking and being taken
Mfw context is important to explaining the answer
ember storm
You don’t really sound very interested in lore if you’re acting like that
Taken are mindless puppets that are converted by those with the power to Take
Worm gods have the power to taken
thin spruce
LMAO I need to understand things in my own way. Just because you think you can explain things well, doesn't mean I will understand them that way
ember storm
Xol is not a mindless puppet
thin spruce
Answering the 7 other aspects of my question without letting me understand the thing that's actually confusing to me does not help
I know everything else you've said
I have the lore card open on D2
ember storm
So everything in there would indicate to you that Xol wasn’t taken, right?
thin spruce
I didn't need any of the other explanation, I knew literally all of that. The only 1 thing I wanted to know was if xol himself was taken.
ember storm
And your question stems from the fact that Xol looks like a taken while being Whisper
thin spruce
No, it doesnt.
thin spruce
Again, my point is, just answer questions directly instead of making things more confusing by explaining everything BUT what the person asked.
You could have said "no" and that would have been all I needed
Lmao
ember storm
The explanation is literally just “he just looks like one”
You interrupted it and ignored half of it
Of course you’d be confused
ember storm
Why are you talking about being confused then
If the explanation didn’t confuse you what’s the problem???
ember storm
I’m sorry that you don’t like big explanations of the lore in the lore channel about discussing lore
With discussion
frigid sparrow
How sad
Now you're just being an ass because they decided to explain the context of the answer to your question
frigid sparrow
They answered it. They said it's xol. You ignored it. And now you're being unnecessarily rude because it took them one more sentence to answer your question.
thin spruce
They didn't answer my question
Lmao
I asked if Xol himself was taken
His response was "there's a difference between taking and being taken."
frigid sparrow
It is *literally* Xol in a fancy little shell
Brother,
thin spruce
That's after i had to ask again?
And made my point that he did not answer my question when I asked it, lol.
None of this explains if Xol (in a fancy shell or not) was taken.
Saying it's literally xol in a fancy shell doesn't say if Xol was taken before being put in a fancy shell, does it?
frigid sparrow
Yap session
thin spruce
It was over until you restarted it lol
frigid sparrow
Woah who's that guy he seems pretty cool
thin spruce
Idk but he keeps yapping in the lore channel 💀
ember storm
To clarify, since you already said you played all the available campaigns earlier, I assumed you knew the general distinction between normal beings and taken versions (the fact that they look taken)
ember storm
I also assumed your question was revolving around the fact of why Xol, being a worm god, would have that signature taken gunk after transforming into a gun
Hence I pointed out the distinction between being a taken and having access to the power
thin spruce
So you made an assumption and failed to answer the question I had asked.
ember storm
Your question was actually the thing that didn’t clarify “before”
fast tapir
is this guy a troll or what
ember storm
You just asked about being taken or not
ember storm
I assumed the question about being taken revolved around the thing that actually looks taken
thin spruce
And that's your own fault
ember storm
What you’re actually asking was whether or not he was taken before becoming whisper, which was not clear
thin spruce
Next time just answer the question and don't make assumptions?
ember storm
You never mentioned that until just a couple messages above this
And then you got upset that I didn’t understand what you were asking
thin spruce
A weapon can't be taken?
ember storm
You’re upset because my explanation “doesn’t explain whether Xol was taken before” which was not your original question
I don’t see how that’s on me
thin spruce
I asked if Xol was taken. I didn't ask if Whisper was taken
Why would you assume I'm asking if xol was taken after being converted into Whisper?
I would have asked if Whisper was taken, then
fast tapir
I asked if Xol was taken. I didn't ask if Whisper was taken
this is the same question lol
thin spruce
Yes and no. If I wanted to know about the gun, I'd have asked clearly about whisper and not xol
ember storm
He turned himself into a gun with taken energy to make himself a valuable weapon we would wanted to claim for ourselves
That way we would use it to kill, inadvertently feeding and empowering him with every successful attack
thin spruce
Yes I understand that now, that was answered by someone else
frigid sparrow
Whisper and xol are the same thing
ember storm
Who was the someone else who explained it
frigid sparrow
Well, mostly. Aside from one being a gun.
ember storm
I don’t see any explanation other than mine
ember storm
That is literally what I said
frigid sparrow
That is not the same answer as to your question of "is xol taken"
thin spruce
That is not the same answer as to your question of "is xol taken"
You're having a conversation all your own.
thin spruce
That is literally what I said
That's my point. Someone else already explained exactly what you just said.
fast tapir
what?
frigid sparrow
That's my point. Someone else already explained exactly what you just said.
Then what was your further questioning??
thin spruce
Waltz explained Xol turning into Whisper.
I said that you, Ultra, had already explained it.
He asked when.
I linked your comment.
frigid sparrow
I didn't need any of the other explanation, I knew literally all of that. The on...
Like
You asked if he was taken or not
That is the question you are arguing about
ember storm
And where in the original explanation was the mention of Xol being taken or being related to the taken
Since that was your actual question
static bluff
there's no way this is still going on
blazing wasp
asks question
Gets answer
Wants it dumbed down
Gets it dumbed down
Dissatisfied with dumbed down answer (only existing remedy is to not dumb it down)
I think this is just bait man
thin spruce
You decided to digress and explain why Xol converted to a sniper. I said it was already explained lmao
fast tapir
yeah this guy isnt real
ember storm
I explained why the sniper looks taken because your question was about Xol being taken
blazing wasp
Like they got everything they wanted down to the letter twice
ember storm
It’s not my fault you interrupted it and ignored the rest
static bluff
this isn't fun to watch this is actually sad
blazing wasp
I think they just wanna yell at people and sky
ember storm
I think they just wanna yell at people and sky
It’s more fun to yell at plants
Your co2 will help them grow
thin spruce
I already said I understand all this and my question has been answered twice.
Im not the one who's continued this argument lmao
blazing wasp
It’s more fun to yell at plants
It's actually pretty therapeutic
frigid sparrow
It's actually pretty therapeutic
Specifically plants?