📚lore-discussion

[ember storm]

vex are not warriors

they just genuinely don’t see lives or time the same way we do

they’d just rather have their goal be accomplished in one big move rather than a series of strikes

they’re perfectly fine with waiting until they come up with the one thing they use the win

we thwart them regularly and they just move on to the next method

[sick yew]

Well heres the deal
Teleport 5 vex into the center of the last city along with one of those little spires from Gos
And just nuke it off the face of the earth

It could be so easy

[ember storm]

That has nothing to do with their simulations

I don’t really get your point

Vex just existing near paracausal power isn’t an issue for them at all

[sick yew]

In that case my point is they should have won long ago lol

My knowledge was the only reason they havent wiped us out yet was because the light intensity of the traveler acted as a sort of barrier keeping them from coming up with a plan aka calculating

[ember storm]

the fact is they literally just don’t do it because they don’t want to

they don’t see it as viable

there is no definitive proof that a full assault would win

they only act if they’re 100% confident it can work

[sick yew]

The Vex operate on a scale that makes that redundant
They could take over entire planets and make them crash into earth

[ember storm]

the inability to properly simulate guardians leaves them without a way to figure out how war with them as a whole would turn out

[ember storm]

but they don’t want to do it

they genuinely want the whole universe to be the same as it is now, just without things that aren’t vex

they don’t want to waste any amount of possible data they could find

[sick yew]

That just sounds like plot bullshit ngl

[ember storm]

as opposed to the wish granting space dragons or the psychic fish mutating into giant worms

I didn’t write it, this is just the explanation we’re given

The vex are “infinitely curious” and time is not an issue for them whatsoever

They’d rather take the slow and careful route than risk anything of possible consequence

[sick yew]

Then why do they fight and or kill in the first place

[ember storm]

all interactions with vex aside from Splicer was us going after their projects they were already working on

you’re not on a quest to kill all mosquitoes but if one latches on you what are you gonna do

[sick yew]

Well if one of those mosquitoes were to invade my gaming pc and take it over from the inside I would go on a personal quest to annihilate all of them

[ember storm]

Splicer specifically was because Savathun had Quria integrate into the vex network as a whole and infect their regular processes

[sick yew]

CoO

I only get stung so many times before im going after their asses

And we've stepped on quite a few Vex toes over the years

[ember storm]

they try to maximize efficiency

they don’t take anything personally because they literally can’t emote

if one line of thinking falls they just abandon it and move on

they never tried rebuilding Atheon once

[sick yew]

So that Red War adventure is retconned?

Where that hydra gets scared shitless because we exist

[ember storm]

red war had a bunch of shit randomly thrown in without regard and was left back there

[sick yew]

Sadge

I liked that one

[ember storm]

BL established it clearly, they don’t have emotions

[sick yew]

I also liked the one where Rasputin casually took over our ghost with one of dem Seraph Nodes

That one was funny too

[ember storm]

that one is kinda

[sick yew]

[ember storm]

cause the same thing happens to Targe in Worthy

but also he just did the rest with holograms so it was ultimately useless

[white girder]

how is microcosm kinetic? the lore might say smth about it

[ember storm]

how is osteo kinetic

[sick yew]

Bla bla light bla bla magic bla bla gameplay vs lore

[sick yew]

Dont you fire physical needles

...making it kinetic

[ember storm]

they’re sentient magic missiles

so not really

[sick yew]

Needles as I said

[fervent sandal]

Hey Alex mind if I dm ya?

[sick yew]

uh sure?

[flat crystal]

new "dynasty" loretab, have hive ships, specifically oryx's fleet/the dreadnaught been described as obsidian in any previous lore?

[buoyant gull]

since act 1 is over what do you guys think of it

[ruby cedar]

Question how does lightfall start?

I got thrown in mission where i show up on a ship

and it talks about defending traveler etc but

I have no idea what has happened

[dim minnow]

Witness arrives with the Black Fleet and Calus' Shadow Legion Fleet

[ruby cedar]

is there a cinematic or something

[dim minnow]

yes

[ruby cedar]

Ah oki

will try to find

Dont think the game... showed.. it

[dim minnow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFAcUlO076E

[ruby cedar]

watching now x

thanks

OH SHIT

traveler attacked

that was a good cinematic !

[willow dagger]

Mara so pretty

[ruby cedar]

u have so many hot women in the game

where are my hot guys 😦

[blazing wasp]

Drifter

[shadow crypt]

Oryx

[ruby cedar]

who dat 😦

drifther? I hardly know her

hahah

😦

[willow dagger]

Crow is fire ngl

[ruby cedar]

Emo kid 😦

[fast tapir]

saint!

[analog torrent]

Cayde

[ruby cedar]

fine i will take cayde

[analog torrent]

Rhulk

https://tenor.com/view/rhulk-gif-25197896

[ruby cedar]

that looks like something lady gaga would wear

i am down

[analog torrent]

Shaxx

[ruby cedar]

cant see their faces 😦

[ruby cedar]

okay okay

[wheat flower]

Does saint have a ghost?

[trim grotto]

Of course. He wouldn't be doing much Light wielding without one.

Her name is Geppetto.

[wheat flower]

Was just wondering cause his ghost did nothing when he was being captured

[wheat flower]

I love that

[dim minnow]

I wish we would get her ghost shell

[jagged badge]

What would she have done?

[blazing stream]

Saint's ability to bubble proves Geppetto is still around, Guardians without a Ghost cannot channel the Light, they can only channel Darkness.. also no revives.

It's kinda like how Drifter, Ana, Shaxx, Ikora, Lord Saladin also have ghosts, you just don't ever see(ingame anymore) or hear them.

[frozen finch]

Was it ever explained why Elsie was in a loop in “Dark Future”?

[ruby cedar]

prayers have been asnwered

kinda hot

HOW IS it that neptune had a whole city and no one knew about it

[frozen finch]

Cause the dudes there wanted it that way

[fast tapir]

they kept it well hidden

[ruby cedar]

ahh oki!

I guess I will find out

[analog torrent]

https://tenor.com/view/riddler-paul-dano-new-rockstars-thumbnail-does-he-know-he-doesnt-know-gif-27552850

[frozen finch]

The only way we figured out they existed was via the submind in Spire of The Watcher

[jagged badge]

[fast tapir]

he does not know

[frozen finch]

he will know

[ruby cedar]

i thought we killed Calus

[dim minnow]

we did, it just hasn't happened yet

[fast tapir]

i wonder if his robots liked wine as much as he did

[sick yew]

Idk whats up with Saints Va this week but dayum

[analog torrent]

Real

never heard him so despondent

[frigid sparrow]

went through the mission finally

forming a collective consciousness in pursuit of a singular goal of establishing a new age in the universe? oh yeah, it's witness 2.0 time baby

[sick yew]

Or just uh you know

Like the Vex?

Lmfao

[frigid sparrow]

with this collective being spearheaded by an actual leader the parallels are there I think

[analog torrent]

I'm not familiar with the Sundaresh lore beyond what was stated in Grimoire 3 and Aspect
you guys still think it's her?

[ember storm]

its pretty obvious

Either one of the vex copies or Maya’s actually survived mind

[frigid sparrow]

I had imagined that the "Conductor" we're hearing about is the various simulations of maya all merging into one singular entity

[ember storm]

remember they just found her body hooked up to a machine utilizing the veil

they didn’t know what she was up to, and nobody else was around so it wasn’t like a witness situation

[sick yew]

frrr

[analog torrent]

bro went growly and deep as fuck
This is what baby Eliksni hear in their nightmares

[frigid sparrow]

Also I'm totally not delusional but

[blazing stream]

Nope, it could be assumed it's the Traveler's will for her to make the timeline right, that neither the Light nor the Dark must win.. also it only activates when she dies.

Could also be a side-effect of her time on Europa fighting Vex essentially giving her a pinoptes kind of power over time, albeit subconcious

Or she just doesn't have time to explain

I'ma bet on theory 3

[frigid sparrow]

speaking of panoptes, differing question

how far does the vex reconstruction of minds go?

a mind like brakion can be repurposed and recreated, but what stops the recreation of a mind like Panoptes? is it just "yeah this guy is super complicated so they can't do shit about remaking him and his abilities" and I'm overthinking it?

[blazing stream]

Well they can and can't, some minds are easier rebuilt than others, usually if a mind is killed, they scrap the blueprint as "failed" and move on.

[frigid sparrow]

so overthinking it got it

and a mind like quria would be impossible to repurpose (sadly)

[blazing stream]

Which is why Pinoptes, Quria, Atheon, Agioktis are never recreated

They're either too hard to mass produce or just given up on

[muted dew]

is the traveler unable to repair or create new ghosts or is it just refusing to do so?

[jagged badge]

[fiery copper]

man we dont know shit

[muted dew]

Oh I see

[static bluff]

probably can't repair because remnants of darkness and doesn't want to create new ghosts because it's essentially tearing pieces of itself to do that

[ember storm]

Not impossible, more so weighing in on how much they want to do it

There’s two kinds of important vex minds, the general manager and the specific purpose kind

General managers have more basic roles and thus aren’t particularly complicated or hard, so they’re either regularly rebuilt or just replaced

These would be gate lords, planetary/regional elites, etc

Minds like Quria were built specifically for one thing at the time so the vex just don’t need them anymore

It was made to study hive, they got all the data about hive and darkness as a whole they needed, Quria completed its objective before it was taken

Atheon and Panoptes would be in the same boat, just as dead ends

They couldn’t complete their objective and the vex collective thus considers them worthless to try again

[slender ether]

So what is the point of the ADU? I didnt play into the light when onslaught first came out.

[stark fjord]

is it possible for failsafe to become a warmind?

given what weve learned from rasputin

[trim grotto]

Automated defence unit. We were using it to create our defences during Onslaught.

[trim grotto]

Failsafe's abandonment issues were strong enough that she wanted to blow us up during Season of the Chosen.

So
Do you want her to be a Warmind?

[slender ether]

Oh so when we successfully complete onslaught, we finalize our defense and the area is secure?

[trim grotto]

We've fought off the enemies, yes.

[stark fjord]

yes /j no not rlly

[static bluff]

I want failsafe to have everything in the world

[opal ice]

Give her an exo frame

[willow dagger]

Could be our next enemy

I’m kidding, I think it might be Erris

Erise? Eriis?

[opal ice]

Why would it be eris?

Eris morn?

[willow dagger]

No the elixkni fella (I can’t spell)

Eramis?!

[opal ice]

Yeh

Da stasis fella

I thought it would either be vex (cuz bungo added more focus on vex) or xivu arath

[willow dagger]

Only time will tell

[opal ice]

Also if the witness is gone, doesn’t it mean the influence on its followers are gone?

Might be brainrot

[lunar wadi]

the immediate brain washing is probably gone but his indoctrination is not

[opal ice]

Ic

[trim grotto]

I doubt it. Eramis has been trying to leave Sol. She's given up, wants to go find her partner Athrys, and their children.

[opal ice]

Eramis just needs some love

Legit everyone hates her

[trim grotto]

Eido has been trying but Eramis hasn't exactly been helping

[opal ice]

Also aren’t her more concerned about the survival of her house more than anything ?

[trim grotto]

Eramis? Not at this point.

[opal ice]

Ic

Me lore noob

She just wants revenge on the traveller or something?

[trim grotto]

Also not at this point. As I said, Eramis has been trying to leave Sol. She's given up, wants to go find her partner Athrys, and their children, who she sent away to another star system after the Whirlwind.

She's just... defeated.

[opal ice]

Ic

We can prolly fix the exodus black ngl

Or at least fix some ships so we can leave sol

[trim grotto]

The Exodus Black is shattered and scattered across three... no, four separate loadzones.

Meanwhile, there's still Red War damage in the Last City.

[opal ice]

Ic

So we’re not leaving sol in a century

Are there any ships that is not literally shattered and can still be repaired?

[deep pagoda]

So why does the new story seasonal mission have Nessus changed and looking sick, but when you return normally… it’s the exact same. Why can’t we get some real world changes on the actual patrol zone, damn shame.

[opal ice]

Prolly cuz limitations

And they have to have big update like a few GB big

Cuz they gonna update the map

And they prolly just don’t wanna do that

[slender ether]

This is probably old news but forbearance (from onslaught, not from the raid) actually forshadow the prismatic subclass. One of the cryptarchs, Sjalla is asked by mara what happens when darkness and light is merged. That they "form something more" "a synthesis. Stronger than either alone. Powerful...like the awoken."

[opal ice]

Ic

Quick question

How did it foreshadow it

Is it weapon description?

[gentle geyser]

Weeeellllllll

Heavy implications suggesting we might use the dreadnought to leave sol

Or that it play some roll

[opal ice]

What is the dreadnought

Oryx’s ship?

[ember storm]

carved out of the skeletons of his old worm god, yeah

It was meant to be his personal warship against us out of revenge for killing his son, but it didn’t really take

so its literally just been lying around for like 8 years

[opal ice]

Ic

[stark fjord]

Is savathun doesn’t need to be a trickster to live

Why does she still do it

Is it a physocoligical thing

[dim minnow]

it's her nature

for billions of years it has been

[opal ice]

Why not kill her again

[stark fjord]

She’s powerful tbh

[fast tapir]

whats another hive ghost crushed?

[opal ice]

Saint spawn killed her

[analog torrent]

Are there any loretabs where Drifter uses a subclass? Read somewhere he used solar in a Forsaken loretab but I can't find it

[empty fern]

Well

https://tenor.com/view/helllo-hello-chat-destiny2-the-drifter-destiny2the-drifter-gif-25071885

And

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-beyond-light-stranger-stasis-exo-stranger-gif-19025454

Kinda,

But it’s probably those

[analog torrent]

This goes so fucking hard 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

What trailer is this from

or cutscene

[empty fern]

Season of the joker I think

[analog torrent]

Casual uses of the light 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[empty fern]

You know, gambit prime

[analog torrent]

yeah

[empty fern]

NUAL P

INY 2 FOŘ

[trim grotto]

Can't link, I'm busy, but look for Germaine

Tried to burn his wound closed

[analog torrent]

I found this

"Rat, what are you feeding me?" She remembers his hunt earlier in the day, and her stomach turns. Eris stares at the Drifter, mouth agape in a half-heaved gag—her thoughts racing over the things he's claimed to have consumed. "You cooked me rotted Screebs."
(obligatory context: it's shrimps, not screebs)

[analog torrent]

yeah I found it 🙏 thanks

The man lifted his other hand, smoldering from a Solar glow, and held it against Judson's wound. His former friend managed a high-pitched wail, but couldn't break the man's grip, though he tried and tried.

[opal ice]

Just throw a healing nade 🗿

[analog torrent]

That reminds me
Does healing Light (well, rift, healing nade) work on the Lightless?

[opal ice]

He prolly had fusions equipped and didn’t wanna wait the 1.5 minute cd

[opal ice]

Isn’t it just repairing body tissues?

[analog torrent]

no idea

[opal ice]

My guess is increasing the rate one’s body repairs itself

[analog torrent]

either Drifter didn't know how to heal that guy or he couldn't because the guy was Lightless

[opal ice]

Might be

It prolly just won’t work on the lightless

[dim minnow]

it was a mercy kill

[opal ice]

Please don’t make this into an overwatch discussion

[analog torrent]

Remembrance says that side effects of the Light (Well of Radiance emitting warmth) work on the Lightless

[opal ice]

[analog torrent]

https://tenor.com/view/mercy-overwatch-come-here-gif-14280244

[dim minnow]

hey you're the one who should have picked her

[opal ice]

Never

I main lucio

Never swap off the frog

[dim minnow]

I'm already Lucio

[opal ice]

[analog torrent]

Buffing also works, based on THE SWARM loretab where Shaw Han goldie-wells a bunch of redjacks

[opal ice]

(This is turning into a overwatch discussion)

[opal ice]

How do you use well, on… hunter…

Teach

I wanna wellskate on hunter

[opal ice]

Just need a bigger knife

[opal ice]

Btw, who made this? Looks good

[analog torrent]

vfordii

[opal ice]

Thanks

[analog torrent]

goated art

[opal ice]

True

[eager trout]

Why did I think the second one was a wedding?

[naive raptor]

Hey, why is the Vault of Glass called “Vault of Glass”? What is vaulted within it?

[sharp osprey]

glass

[naive raptor]

[sharp osprey]

the vault of glass, as i understand it, is basically like a vex domain outside of time or something

the relic shield you use was created by one of the first guardians who went into the vault and got wiped from existence

[remote sky]

WAIT ERIS IS A HUNTER?!

[dim minnow]

yeah

[remote sky]

I thought she was a lock bro 😭

[west cloak]

not every lock is the smart one lol

eris has used hunter supers before

blame the collapse

[west cloak]

wym, the relic was always there

there has never been anyone in the vault of glass before we went in

[sharp osprey]

exactly

[jagged badge]

@heavy vortex

[heavy vortex]

Ew

[jagged badge]

Cheers

[trim grotto]

Hegemon is actually right, insomuch as glass references the Glass Throne, the area you fight Atheon in.

Otherwise, it's more of a... Time Lab.

The Vex were experimenting with these unique and terrifying forms of ontological control within the Vault, and trying to figure out how to make it work without the Vault.

[signal lotus]

What do you guys think of the theory that when oryx got in touch with the darkness and became the taken king he communed with something deeper than the witness did and may have contacted the winnower itself?

[empty fern]

Wait aren’t we certain that it was the witness? Oryx sends the will broken to it and they become taken? Tablets of ruin and stuff

[trim grotto]

Given how closely it all ties in to the Witness - such as the deal the Worm Gods made - I would assume it was the Witness.

[signal shore]

I could remember it being stated as Oryx communing with the Winnower at some point, unless it was retconned

a lot of things are retconned

[jagged badge]

That was not stated

[trim grotto]

Retcons aren't the term I'd use, either.

There aren't that many. Some exist, true, but not many.

[signal shore]

then I'm out, thanks for clarifying

[winter edge]

Does all of the Scorn Barons have unique models?

[jagged badge]

I believe some of their models have been reused since

No idea if they all started off unique though

[fierce hemlock]

what are the vex and why do they show up in different shapes and sizes and also why can we not just kill their creator and end them all

[trim grotto]

Vex don't have a creator. The Radiolarian Fluid, the "Vex Milk", contains Radiolaria. Microscopic organisms. The Vex are creatures that evolved, they're a lifeform, and eventually learned to create these chassis you see today, as well as transcend their organism forms as data in some circumstances.

Each Vex unit has a different primary function and purpose among the group, too. Hydras, for example, are often leading the other Vex in whatever unit they're operating under.

[ember storm]

they did

[ember storm]

vex can essentially be described as the most evolutionarily advanced infection known to the universe

they have no individual goals or aspirations, and serve a specific purpose for the collective overall

they are what they are because they simply evolved to that point

[pure tree]

are the vex a hive mind or more like have a swarm intelligence?

[empty fern]

Hive mind, we go from
Individual units
Minds
Collective
(Something like that)

Also speaking of vex

Copy pasting factions

Sol Collective - Normal Vex
Sol Divisive - Black Heart worshippers and Black Garden Defenders
Hezen Corrective - Elimination of House of Winter on Venus
Hezen Protective - Completion of the Vault of Glass and Endless Steps
Virgo Prohibition - Combatting the Cabal in Meridian Bay and defending Gateway of Black Garden
Sol Imminent - Far Future Vex also the most far future vex we know of and was encountered in vault of glass
Sol Primevil - Furthest vex in the past we know of, taerraformed Mercury into the machine world we know now and encountered within VoG first time
Sol Progeny, Weavers, and the Proxies aren't factions more of enemy groups within the factions

(Is not updated, kinda old)

[pure tree]

also, can we discuss echoes stuff yet or no cuz i have a question

[empty fern]

It’s been officially released, I haven’t caught up to this week so I’m behind, but YEA we can discuss it (even the seasonal items lore)

[pure tree]

ok cool so in echoes we've faced two types of vex, the compelled ones and the choral vex, since they appear to be following the same directives and also choral is associated with like a choir or chorus with the conductor leading them, would it be likely that these choral vex are directly voluntarily following the conductor?

also do they use the same model as sol primeval?

[empty fern]

You’d have to show a pic of them, but if it’s the prec vex chrome (like old mercury vex) then yea it’s probably the same

Also idk enough about the coral minds (still too new to me, but you might be on to something with the choir)

[pure tree]

they dont have the same ishtar collective looking shackle as the compelled vex

[empty fern]

Maybe just coincidence? Aligned interests

[pure tree]

may be

i know theres lore tabs of like vex on nessus waving at scouts or building sandcastles and i dont think it specifies which type it is

might be that the choral vex are ones able to think independently and so voluntarily follow the conductor

[empty fern]

Aren’t those the compelled ones? The hob goblin that got drive byed by a titan with a rocket

[pure tree]

yeah im not entirely sure

so dont take my word on it

[empty fern]

You’ll have to wait a bit for other lore chatters to come in, (it’s 8am for me so it’s early early morning)

[pure tree]

yeah its almost midnight for me

ok yeah it is the compelled ones

"One of those sleek Precursor models was leading a group of normal Vex Goblins. The Goblins all had glowing collars, but the Precursor didn't. They were moving in a regimented military structure. One of the Goblins stepped out of formation, and the lead Precursor glared at it. I've never seen a Vex break formation… didn't even know they could do that."
i spose this answers my questions

if thats the case, the precursor vex must be the upper class of these vex or the compelled vex are more akin to prisoners and stuff

[static bluff]

I cried when I read that, lil hob was just being friendly :((((

[empty fern]

lol

[pure tree]

i know its a tall order, but i wish bungie adds some new idle animations to the compelled vex

i wanna see the sandcastle building vex in person

[idle lagoon]

hey so i have a question with regards to final shape campaign. It doesn involve spoilers of the campaign. May i ask or is there a spoiler warning rule?

[blazing wasp]

Spoiler warnings are for the first 1-2 weeks of a dlc

So no worries ask away

[idle lagoon]

ok so during the campaign Crow states that he accidently wished Cayde back to life. But the traveller then communicates with Cayde through visions later on in the campaign. Did the Traveler not then choose to bring him back? Cayde is also "made of light" as Ikora and Ghost state in the campaign

[blazing wasp]

Unknown but it's possible that riven made the traveler bring cayde back?

[idle lagoon]

could be. Cause the traveler does kinda hint towards Cayde dying again in the vision scene cayde has

where Sundance doesnt mention the "death" part in the Guardian tennets

[blazing wasp]

The traveler isn't omnipotent and wouldn't know if cayde would die or not

[ember storm]

My tv is too far away so I can’t really read the names, what are the weird vex called?

Compelled?

[blazing wasp]

Yes

[ember storm]

but then the elites in the Saint mission say something else

what are those

[blazing wasp]

Also how long have you've been blue

[ember storm]

Yesterday morning

[blazing wasp]

Oh I have to go do that

[ember storm]

I woke up defiled

[ember storm]

it’s a good mission

[blazing wasp]

Hangon gimme a sec

[ember storm]

I won’t spoil anything but I will just say to gauge your expectations because the Act 1 questline only has 25 steps to it

[blazing wasp]

Nvm it's deleted

[blazing wasp]

Already know

[ember storm]

cool

[blazing wasp]

I got partially spoiled immediately today

[ember storm]

Is there a particular story order to doing the motes of light or encryption bits first

they’re both for khvostov right

[blazing wasp]

I don't believe so

There's no indication of such

[ember storm]

Ok

[sick yew]

Regarding this week's seasonal story
Has Saint ever been told he's not technically from our timeline? Or was this actually a revelation to him

[vernal isle]

failsafe dating sim whennn

i love her so dearly.

failsafe i came to visit you literally all the time

[ember storm]

Think it’s just an existential thing

[sick yew]

So he was aware before?

[ember storm]

He probably always had some kind of doubt about how it went down and then those feelings got preyed upon

I mean it wasn’t exactly a secret he was rescued from a Time Machine

He’s lamented on how the sundial was only applicable to his situation and couldn’t help anyone else

[vast siren]

Why was the sundial only applicable to him?

[sick yew]

Probably cause that's what Osiris build it for

And perfect paradox literally existing I'd assume

[ember storm]

It used the infinite forest as a power source/processor and that’s where all of saint’s time fuckery happened

you couldn’t go anywhere else with it

[vernal isle]

my hatred of the new episodic model aside

this is a good story

saint snaps out of his schizodepressive episode through the power of being gay. you love to see it

also this is the first i'm hearing about exos having radiolaria blood

[blazing wasp]

"uplifted choral"

some are just regular choral, like the harpies

hydra too

[jagged badge]

I’m not sure exactly about blood but Exominds are facilitated by Radiolaria + Clarity (Darkness), which combined make something Clovis called “Alkahest”

It basically made it so that the mind doesn’t just sorta crash

[vernal isle]

humans really are the least interesting destiny race lol/j

[analog torrent]

Nahhh a lot of cool shit happened in the Golden Age and Dark Age with just humans

[blazing wasp]

Also worth noting that the alkahest is, unless i recall wrong, radiolaria with the vex in it removed

[ember storm]

More like drowned out by darkness

[analog torrent]

I forgot to ask yesterday
when did you get blue name 🙏

[ember storm]

I have been cursed with knowledge

[remote sky]

Is there a lore reason why they call it oven when you of in the cold food of out hot eat the food

[ember storm]

it’s because you call it oven when you of in the cold food of out hot eat the food

[remote sky]

I see

[analog torrent]

Other than Drifter, Orin, Felwinter, the people in Ghost Stories, and that Titan who was rezzed right into a Cabal mining operation, do we have any personal accounts of Lightbearers being Risen?

Specifically looking for Zavala, Crow, and Saladin's records, if they exist
Cayde's doesn't count since that was told by Shiro's Ghost who relayed it from Sundance
Crow has a cutscene nvm him

[civic quarry]

Well as your ghost says after you clear perdition lost sector for the first time, contacting radiolaria can straight up turn you into vex

[civic quarry]

Live footage of Crow Resurrecting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evJPzdkwy04

[analog torrent]

Yeah I found Zavala's resurrection too https://youtu.be/CuopFljokWQ?si=cmcm2IKYHzX9DAYm

[civic quarry]

Did witness stole taniks's legs and mashed up with something that only witness knows?

[blazing wasp]

it could very well be some random fallen

we have zero indication save for the model that this is taniks

[willow dagger]

Uke crows hot ngl

[blazing wasp]

I dont believe im in a position to judge given that its me.

[willow dagger]

Wat does that imply?

[blazing wasp]

Not finding any of the characters attractive nor unattractive doesnt really give me any grounds to stand on here.

[willow dagger]

Sigh, I suppose so my lupine friend

[ember storm]

How can you say that when there’s kings like morgeth

[blazing wasp]

The only attractive part about morgeth is how attracted he is to a dps phase lasting 3 seconds before hes dead

[ruby cedar]

i Ship them

[blazing wasp]

i ship them

looks inside

canonically a couple in a romantic relationship

[ruby cedar]

wait are they actually?

[blazing wasp]

they are

[ruby cedar]

wait

[blazing wasp]

waiting

[ruby cedar]

And no ones heads have exploded

[blazing wasp]

why would they

[ruby cedar]

Or was there an uproar when it was announced

[ember storm]

They were the first and only onscreen kiss

[ember storm]

From where you’d expect

(Reddit mostly)

[blazing wasp]

It was kinda announced before they joined the community to get mad about it

they just get mad every time its confirmed again

[ruby cedar]

oki oki!

Love that

[blazing wasp]

and they're promptly chased off

[ember storm]

Like you saw how people reacted when byf just positively mentioned Micah

[blazing wasp]

because d2 has like, a lot of lgbtq representation

[ruby cedar]

Always saw destiny 2 playerbase as not most tolerable people

[ember storm]

He didn’t even reference anything relating to her identity, he just called her a good character

[ruby cedar]

maybe I am mixing it up with Fortnite xD

[blazing wasp]

The majority of the d2 community just does not care that much about anything

[ember storm]

it’s always the vocal minority

[blazing wasp]

(hell thats the factory setting for humans)

[ember storm]

anyhow, Saint and Osiris are like incredibly gay

[ruby cedar]

YAY!

[blazing wasp]

It's good representation too

[ember storm]

if you leave them on coms together they will start flirting

[blazing wasp]

because rather than portraying it as a GAY relationship, its a gay RELATIONSHIP

because d2 takes place in a era where human society long ago got its shit together for once

[blazing wasp]

then had a apocalypse

[ruby cedar]

Dunno I am sure the whole darkness and witness stuff is cuz of gays

[blazing wasp]

but the phobia already died, and didnt revive post-collapse

[ember storm]

Maya Sundaresh was gay

so

[blazing wasp]

im pretty sure the witness predates humanity at least

[ember storm]

you know who else predates humanity

[blazing wasp]

so that would be hard for the gays to achieve but

[blazing wasp]

your... mother, muscle man?

[ruby cedar]

vitness is kind of LGBT too xD

[ember storm]

I was going to say hive

By a long shot

[blazing wasp]

oh

[ember storm]

The statues on the Dreadnaught are older than the earth itself

So yeah, witness is a fair bit older

[blazing wasp]

im sorry i just immediately default anyones voice to muscle man when they say "you know who else X"

[ember storm]

I’m not sure if we’re allowed to do the muscle man version anyway

[blazing wasp]

oh, right

[ember storm]

I wish muscle man was real

[ruby cedar]

They? 😮 So non binary people too?

neat

[trim grotto]

There's a few, yes

[ember storm]

Yeah

[ruby cedar]

is this the reason people hated lightfall xD?

[analog torrent]

(practically nonexistent Iron Lord) Orewing's nonbinary too

[analog torrent]

No, d2 players can't read and don't even know that Nimbus is nonbinary lol

[blazing wasp]

D2 has a lot of lgbtq representation and i mean a lot

[trim grotto]

No. People just didn't like Nimbus as a character rather than their identity.

[ruby cedar]

they are quite like "surfer" type dude

[blazing wasp]

I personally just dont think nimbus' voice fits the voice... modifier? changer? the metallic thing

[trim grotto]

Also yeah Gamer is right most folks don't even realise

[blazing wasp]

thats like my only gripe

[analog torrent]

Nimbus hate would be down 90% if the voice didn't sound like that lmaooo

[ember storm]

I just want to know why cloudstriders have metal hair

[blazing wasp]

p sure eris (the discord user) has a pastebin of all the LGBTQ characters

hangon

ill steal it

[analog torrent]

Because it's cool, next question

[ember storm]

I modified it myself

Prepare

[blazing wasp]

Saint-14
Osiris
Lord Shaxx
Devrim Kay
Marc
Suraya Hawthorne
Mara Sov
Sjur Eido
Eramis
Athrys
Ana Bray
Camrin Dumuzi
Elisabeth Bray
Ikora Rey
Drifter
Eriana-3
Wei Ning
Micah-10
Hector Abram
Wesley Abram
Maya Sundaresh
Chioma Esi
Chalco Yong
Amrita Vae
Kazia
Mist-1
Orewing
Nimbus
Stargazer
Quinn Laghari
Paolo
Adinew
Loe
Oryx

https://tenor.com/view/yakk-gif-19346008

[fast tapir]

i like how you had to clarify the discord user lmao

[ember storm]

My version is better

[blazing wasp]

show

[trim grotto]

Also one unnamed Guardian on Neomuna

[ember storm]

Osiris
Lord Shaxx
Devrim Kay
Oryx
Marc 
Suraya Hawthorne
Mara Sov 
Sjur Eido
Eramis 
Athrys 
Ana Bray
Camrin Dumuzi
Elisabeth Bray 
Ikora Rey 
Drifter 
Eriana-3 
Wei Ning 
Micah-10
Hector Abram
Wesley Abram
Chalco Yong
Amrita Vae
Kazia
Maya Sundaresh
Chioma Esi
Nimbus
Stargazer 
Quinn Laghari
Paolo
Adinew
You```

[blazing wasp]

:0

[analog torrent]

You
REAL

[ember storm]

It’s about the presentation™️

[blazing wasp]

honestly remind me in like 5 years when i hopefully find out

[analog torrent]

The final exam for lorechat is a single long response question where you have to list each of these characters' backstories and how they're lgbt

[blazing wasp]

This is both right, and wrong, depending on what you personally want, due to how the guardian is written

so, i guess

[ember storm]

Regardless of your personal opinion, the guardian uses a mixture of gender neutral and gendered pronouns

Characters very much say “they”

that counts

[blazing wasp]

to play the devils advocate, "they" can be used for he/him / she/her

but

[analog torrent]

young wolf is Schrodinger's lgbt

[blazing wasp]

i wouldnt call you wrong.

and i'd even call you probably right

[blazing wasp]

their lgbtq is only revealed when you look inside the box

[analog torrent]

@ruby cedar You were looking for hot dentistry dudes right does voice count
https://youtu.be/Nzh3A3JFrSc?si=WkELSiV74K1kVtBI&t=36

wait a minute
That's the fucking Winston voice actor

[ember storm]

Xur is soldier 76

[ruby cedar]

When is this?

[analog torrent]

Malf quest

[analog torrent]

Saladin is Reaper
Fikrul is McCree
small world huh

[blazing wasp]

Season of the drifter I believe

Which was forsaken

[blazing wasp]

Spider isnt from ow but from a similar game

[analog torrent]

oh nvm thought it was malf

Don't remember if I heard this in game or not

[blazing wasp]

It was

Malf quest is season of drifter

In forsakens period

Before sk

[blazing wasp]

medic

the medic.

[ruby cedar]

Which xpac

Sorry havent played all of them

[blazing wasp]

Forsaken

[ruby cedar]

ah cool! Didnt remember

agree hot voice yes x

[ember storm]

Spider’s monologue where he’s bragging about Crow always gets me

[analog torrent]

Rezyl Azzir's story kinda reminds me of Anakin Skywalker's
Idolized hero who was full of fear confronts the Darkness/Dark Side and bites off more than he can chew, gets corrupted, parts ways with his oldest friend. Oldest friend aids the legacy protege. There are legacy weapons involved.

[analog torrent]

Historical Basis for Spontaneous Reset Syndrome
—Heyka-3/4: Notorious Dark Ages Warlord. Post-reset, became a lone raider.
—Vander-2/3: Rescued from the Great Disaster because reset incapacitated him. Served as City guard post-reset. Ghost destroyed on Luna. (Pre- or post-reset? Do Ghosts protect Exo Guardians from spontaneous reset?)
—Lilakee-5/6/7: Curious case. Known sufferer of severe DER-related nightmares and outbursts. Commandeered a jumpship and vanished.
—Selass-7/8: Technician sent to data mine Titan settlements. Reset occurred in return transit. Post-reset, remained research technician assisting Cryptarchs.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/legacys-oath-grips
Did we ever find out how these Exos were reset? Post-Collapse

[ember storm]

Probably just as simple as having the right hardware available, or even just a button on the exo itself

[steady nest]

Do exos require maintenance?

[ember storm]

Generally speaking, they’re designed not to deteriorate or run out of energy

they require the same “maintenance” humans do, but it’s mainly a mental thing

[violet hinge]

Do we know what the winnower looks like?

[ember storm]

We don’t even know for sure what it is

[hallow fulcrum]

Is nessus just another vex planet or is it in any way important to vex

[wheat flower]

Could the Ahamkhara have proven to be a massive threat to the Witness if we hadn't killed them all?

[cinder hedge]

the winnower IS the witness, it’s just what we called him, the dialogue was him denying that he was a winnower, that we were incorrect to call him such, but the witness is the winnower being

or at least the embodiment of it, since the darkness itself was referred to as the winnower and the lightness the gardener who existed for all time and live outside of the universe aswell

any question you have about that is probably in the shadow keep lore books

[trim grotto]

Don't take Unveiling too literally. It is, as described in the book itself, a metaphor.

I'm currently pondering the idea that the Winnower is an entity... but not one that acts. It's like a mythological god, or the embodyment of a force or concept. It is the nature of winnowing, it is the face of death, but the natural cycle of death. It calls itself responsible for the act of evolutionary rivalry, so perhaps that is what it is. It is that conflict, that cutting away of the chaff.

[trim grotto]

Nessus was merely a centaur that the Vex machinoformed. It isn't very important in and of itself. However, it has always been curious insomuch as the life on Nessus was part of that machinoforming. Even the trees are in the network.

[trim grotto]

Potentially, but consider these two things.
Firstly, consequences. A Wish affecting the most powerful entity of Darkness to ever exist would have some kickback, and we couldn't guarantee it'd be better in the end.
Secondly, although not well defined, Ahamkara have limits. To Curse the Dreaming City, it took the combined Wish of 6 separate Guardians, and the 15th Wish to enter the portal took an entire season and the Veil and the Sov siblings connection to be considered stable and safe.

[trim grotto]

For your question, I'll also refer you to the reply I made to Kitamura above.

[violet hinge]

Oh ok

[trim grotto]

In other words it probably isn't a man in a chair with an evil moustache and top hat writing us spooky letters

[violet hinge]

Interesting

Sounds more like a concept than a being

[fresh zephyr]

"What comes from the light returns to the light" I actually feel justified killing lucent hive guardians, minus Luzaku

[trim grotto]

It could be! It's hard to say, what I've described is my interpretation.

[dim minnow]

I'm under the impression that the Winnower vs Gardener debate isn't a Darkness vs Light debate

[violet hinge]

Ah

[trim grotto]

Admittedly, it would be nice if more than one Hive Ghost and one Hive Lightbearer - not even paired, mind you - were friendly

[dim minnow]

maybe Euloch will be chill later on

[trim grotto]

I dunno that entry with him was mega aggressive

[fresh zephyr]

yea it's true, it'll be nice to have friendly one that is not loyal to Savathun but before luzaku I always thought killing a hive ghost will damage the traveler cuz y'know, it make these ghosts

[trim grotto]

That's reasonable. The Traveler could, to a degree, feel the Ghosts.

[fresh zephyr]

Euloch is a like a chihuahua some people said, like Immaru

[dim minnow]

he still decided to stay with Luzaku

[trim grotto]

True, but so would Vincent.

Ghosts are very loyal.

[fresh zephyr]

even though some are fucked up in the mind

[dim minnow]

Vincent is Yor's Ghost right?

pretty sure he left

[trim grotto]

Yes, but only because Yor threatened to kill Vincent if he didn't.

[dim minnow]

at that point Vincent determined that he was beyond saving

[trim grotto]

My point is that Vincent was still willing to stay

It takes a lot to convince them otherwise

[dim minnow]

to an extent

[hexed mist]

Does anyone know what the sparrow that looks like a Pyramid ship is on Nessus

I walked near it and really weird music picked up

And as I went deep into the area it was it was still playing but there was nothing

[dim minnow]

this one?

[hexed mist]

Yeah but it was like static n stuck to the ground

[dim minnow]

well it wasn't your sparrow so you couldn't really move it

[hexed mist]

Maybe it was a glitch but it was just strange as hell

You can shoot them tho

Maybe it’s one of the lost ghost quests or something

Let me go back

[ember storm]

pretty sure that was just someone's sparrow

[hexed mist]

Idk I just left to the helm and came back and it’s still there lol

Thought it might be something prob just a glitch my bad!

[smoky rose]

Not a glitch literally just someone's sparrow that was left there

[fresh zephyr]

Cannonically, can Titans, Hunters and Warlocks only use their own supers for their respective character or any character can use any super?

[ember storm]

classes are just schools of thought

there is zero limitation beyond how much someone is willing to train in it

because most guardians can't make the time or just don't want to, they tend to just stick with just one subclass

[weary vortex]

okay, i know people are kinda dissapointed by the end of Act 1 but damn if they aren't tackling an interesting plot point for saint.

[sick cedar]

Heyo, does anyone know how to get the last lore card for "Companions"?

[analog torrent]

They be silly
What does this mean for Exo Guardians? It was probably more effective on Saint because the Vex know him and know his weaknesses, but given time, would it be possible for other Exos to be possessed? Chronophage shows that Saint seems to think so. What does this mean for Young Wolf's race? What would their possessions look like? Where unique dialogue for us Exo players?

[broken relic]

Ghost still talked about finding our bones no matter the race in the cosmodrome so probably won't be addressed

[ember knot]

Can I get the TL;DR on the major developments between the end of Season of Defiance and TFS?

[ember knot]

Up to TFS, I want to play the expansion

[analog torrent]

@ember knot y6 summaries here

SORRY FOR PING VENETIA

MY B

forgor

[ember knot]

Ah, thanks

[languid crater]

Rip lore

[dark linden]

I’m having trouble hunting down a flavor text
“You are mine, you shall be mine, you and I are one forever” I think

[sharp osprey]

let me see if i can find it

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/karnstein-armlets

[dark linden]

No wonder I couldnt find it, Im a Titan main

Thank yooooooooou

[trim grotto]

total guess by the way
i thought that sounded romantic and my first thought went, "ah, maybe the lesbian vampire gloves!"

turns out i was spot on

[dark linden]

Lesbian vampire gloves?

I gotta read this lore entry

[sharp osprey]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/speakers-sight?highlight=speaker's+sight just skimmed through this, i assume this is meant to be from the "perspective" of the traveler via a speaker's interpretation, right?

i love that there is a speaker helmet as an exotic

[trim grotto]

dreams from the traveler in the eyes of a/the speaker, yeah

[sharp osprey]

is the vision cutscene we see upon entering the pale heart supposed to be a dream that speakers have?

are we a speaker/dreamer?

[trim grotto]

we had a dream like this before, during the red war

[sharp osprey]

ahhh thats right

i honestly forgot about that lol

[trim grotto]

we are not the only one to experience it, however. many people did, if i recall, including Ikora

a single (or two) dream(s) does not a speaker make

[sharp osprey]

crow has had dreams too, and at one point in one of Micah's visions she sees herself and Crow standing with the old speaker iirc

i find it interesting how time (or just reading deeper into whats said) has changed the moment the speaker says the traveler doesn't talk to him or whatever from being "proof" that he's a liar to the realization that the traveler doesn't really talk, or that the traveler wasnt communicating at that moment in time. i dont' think the speaker wasn't a fraud

but to be fair, the way that moment is written really makes it seem like the speaker is admitting he's a fraud lol

[languid crater]

Who were the seventh seraphs

And why do we have their armor

[trim grotto]

Specialised Golden Age human agents acting on Rasputin's behalf
Because we were agents acting on Rasputin's behalf (during Season of the Worthy)

[languid crater]

So we are seraphs

[trim grotto]

Yes, though that doesn't mean very much nowadays given that Rasputin is a little bit dead.

[languid crater]

Rip

[broken relic]

Potential Mind

[willow dagger]

Maël

Mael I got 10 grenade kills in one life!! It took me 4.5 hours

[trim grotto]

that's quite a while
did'ja have a Grenade Exotic on

[willow dagger]

Nope

I suffered. I cried. Is there lore for that? What’s the most suffering in d2 lore

[trim grotto]

uh well there's a few
like Drifter's constant starvation

to death

[frank carbon]

Or the guardians that kept freezing n starving to death everytime their ghosts would revive them

Or what happened to Kabr and his original fireteam in the vault of glass

Or what Croat did to eris morn and her fireteam

[willow dagger]

Yeah, I guess that counts

[trim grotto]

by the way, what class do you play the most?

[willow dagger]

Hunter😬

[trim grotto]

You could always try a grenade exotic next time
Shinobu's Vow, even Young Ahamkara's Spine - it might help with that node

[willow dagger]

Thanks Mael

So cool

https://tenor.com/view/so-cool-ken-ryan-gosling-barbie-movie-awesome-gif-373387493549880442

[ember storm]

Because he’s admitting it to Ghaul, who had been keeping him alive for months in hopes the speaker would have a way to commune with the traveler and give him a better chance at being chosen

Speaker was basically just telling Ghaul he wasted all of that time

[kindred socket]

i was wondering why cant ghosts revive other guardians

[ember storm]

It’s meant to be one guardian with one ghost

That’s how the traveler made them

But also ghosts can’t just go around resurrecting anyone they want

It has to be the one they feel a specific pull towards

Given how light is described to have specific frequencies for guardians and ghosts, imo that means it has to be someone who’s the same (or as close as possible) to the ghost’s own frequency

[empty fern]

Wait

Waltz is finally blue? Holy shit

[sick yew]

Damn youre right

Gotta change that rq hangon

Waltz follow me for a moment

[empty fern]

Damn

[broken relic]

We ignore Shin Malphur it makes it so much easier

[sick yew]

[ember storm]

Tell me about the rabbits Alex

[ember storm]

that actually fits perfectly because the ghost feels a pull and gets confused because there was no “devotion bravery sacrifice” to be had

[jagged badge]

Naaaah 😭

[ember storm]

You’re right I should’ve said doghives

[sick yew]

Pretty sure its more the fact that Shin was able to use the light years later

Not his initial resurrection

Dont you dare hit me with the "it was the light inside the gun"

[ember storm]

[sick yew]

[ember storm]

we can just say that shin always had his super meter capped off and was saving it for the right time

[sick yew]

Lmfaoo

Then what happened to Drifters bro

Shin just made a few orbs of power on the way

[stark fjord]

Morgeth lore?

[empty fern]

Was that the last wish ogre?

[stark fjord]

Ye

[empty fern]

Just a gatekeeper

Tis the life of all ogre encounters

[shadow crypt]

Any guesses to who was talking to us

in the nacre ship lore tab

[dim minnow]

the Winnower

[smoky python]

Have we ever met the winnower ?

[empty fern]

Nope

[ember storm]

We don’t know what the winnower is for sure so we wouldn’t know if we’ve met it

[empty fern]

It was Benedict

[ember storm]

It’s actually Louis

Keep up

[wheat flower]

Randal the vandal is actually the winnower in disguise

[smoky python]

XUR is the winnower confirmed

[analog inlet]

ok

so

the final shape happened

boom baam

now whats up with the nine?

like is that it?

[trim grotto]

Is what it?

[analog inlet]

is the nine's story thats all?

the nine didnt have any progression given, story wise, campaign wise, any further screen time in the recent dlc, nor the seasons

and they just havnt been talked about

so my question is, what is gonna happen with the 9

or what are they even doing who are they serving

[trim grotto]

The fact that the Final Shape has now been dealt with means that other storylines can now shine. We're dealing with Vex and Fikrul for example with the Episodes.

The Nine do not serve anybody.

[analog inlet]

i was thinking the same thing

since final shape has been dealt with

[trim grotto]

Their story isn't over. Have some patience, give it time.

[analog inlet]

i have enough patience dw i aint askin a dlc to drop rn

i was just wondering

what r the nine even doing

i wanted to get some speculations and takes from you guys

some food for thought etc type stuff yk

[trim grotto]

Perhaps what they have always been doing. Attempting to find a source of independence from their shackles.

[analog inlet]

thats actually the one answer i can think of

[neon raft]

I was walking around The Lost Tower and also the current Tower and stopped to realise that Cabal wear respirators. Do we know why?

[trim grotto]

That would suggest they haven't undergone pressure acclimation training

[neon raft]

I'm not a lore expert, but that sounds like it makes sense

when you headshot kill a cabal soldier, their headgear depressurises

[frozen finch]

Is it ever mentioned what proportion the guardians are split between the three classes. In-lore I mean.

[frozen finch]

I’m pretty sure it’s because they can’t breathe our air. But there’s also caiatl who doesn’t seem to wear a respirator. Maybe it’s hidden underneath her mask.

[blazing wasp]

Kinda, they're similar save for typical choice of armor

Classes are schools of thought after all, not some magical pact you sign

[frozen finch]

Yeah I know that. But I was wondering which discipline was the most “subscribed” to.

[blazing wasp]

Ah, the differences in popularity?

Uh

I don't think we've had any confirmation

[stark fjord]

I thought the nine was bungies self insert

Like in d1 the nine freed skolas for entertainment

More so for content

[lapis thistle]

the nine are going be a part of something big because they are extremely powerfull and they are beings of other solar system probably other universe

[neon raft]

(Bungo plz give us more lore in-game between The Drifter and The Nine)

[stark fjord]

This tbh

[neon raft]

Omg

Same username

A fellow Drifter enjoyer spotted

[lapis thistle]

same here

i love the nine

[neon raft]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2drifter-gif-20973796

[ember storm]

It was actually to get closer contact with guardians,because they knew that forcing the awoken to recapture skolas would make them ask the guardians for help and make both parties more open to outside contact

[stark fjord]

Omg that’s so cute

[sick cedar]

Does anyone have Part 5 of "Companions" or where to acquired it? Cant seem to find the source in the triumphs and it left me off on a sad lil cliffhanger that was "She Falls". :(

[broken relic]

Shin just used a sunshot on him and lied about it

[stark fjord]

lore wise

whats the strongest fundamental

[gaunt solstice]

theory: our guardian never dies. in the corridors of time, where we see our guardian's body, thats just one possible future the vex have predicted

[jagged badge]

What’s the strongest what?

[stark fjord]

element duh

[ember storm]

eh

strand, I guess? On a technicality?

[split aurora]

is tje witness the bad guy ?

[ember storm]

on a fundamental level, yes

it should be very apparent that it’s not good

[split aurora]

hmmmm interesting

[ember storm]

generally speaking the thing that wants to kill all life in the universe via turning everything into stone statues for “perfection” isn’t usually the good guy

[split aurora]

hmmm

I will look into this

[frail bone]

it's hard to say for sure what The Witness's final shape actually is, it's gone from everything like amassed corpses constituting architecture to statuesque visages littering the landscape. The one repeating pattern is for sure though: the transference of life/sentience into raw matter to be used as literal "building blocks". At least that's how it comes across to me

[lapis thistle]

I think the most powerful one is strand because is like darkness in a tread that we as guardians learn how to control and it’s theorize that not even the power of the darkness is fully comprehend so I would say strand, but lore wise he have so many time on the light side, they might not be the most powerful but our guardian have most abilities there so make that as you wish, but on pure power I would say strand

[lapis thistle]

Every one has a different meaning to the final shape even the witness it self, but I would guess what happened in the trailers was the beginning of that

[naive raptor]

I was looking at the Zauoli’s Bane message/quote thing, and had a couple questions

1. Who is the child that the narrator is telling to run

2. Why is the child being told to run?

3. Who is telling the child to run?

[ember storm]

they’re all presumably named after victim’s of oryx

[stark fjord]

Mask of bakris lore is so wholesome

[raw hazel]

Real

[trim grotto]

[stark fjord]

/j

[raw hazel]

Real.

[naive raptor]

[abstract pagoda]

What are the six coyotes?

[trim grotto]

The Six Coyotes are a famous group of six Hunters, known for a few endeavours such as being the first to scout the Cosmodrome. You may have heard of some of them, such as Micah-10 the Den-Mother-Of-Ghosts, or Himura Shinobu. Some Exotics are also related to them, such as Shinobu's Vow, and of course... the Sixth Coyote.

[abstract pagoda]

I think read some of the lore a few years ago but that's about it

Is Shinobu still alive?

[trim grotto]

I believe they're all still alive

[willow dagger]

Like at what point do ghosts determine someone isnt their host? I mean like if there’s two identical twins and one who wasn’t the ghost original host asks the ghost to res their twin

[trim grotto]

Ghosts can simply scan, and have an innate connection to their Lightbearer. So uh, right away and always

[outer dragon]

My favorite Glint lore

Pulled Pork finishes up a scan of a floating piece of concrete and rebar, then turns toward them.

"I am looking for my Guardian!" he chirps.

"That's nice. You gonna find him in that rock?"

"You never know, Miss Nkechi Thirty-Two. Maybe my Guardian is very small."

"Maybe," Nkechi agrees. "But you might want to consider scanning the dead, bud. That shell's pretty snappy. Is it new?" It's Reef-purple, with a flowerlike silhouette and silver detailing.

"Yes! It is. It was a gift. And, thank you for your suggestion. I have considered it! I do often scan the dead. I also scan other things. I like to be thorough." Pulled Pork bobs in place politely, almost bowing. "Please excuse me one moment!" He turns to scan a piece of warped plasteel.

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/pulled-pork

So yeah, ghost just scan until they find "the one"

[willow dagger]

Omg that’s actually the cutest thing ever

[willow dagger]

But would it be illegal for the ghost to res the hypothetical twin?

[empty fern]

Ah yes, by traveler decree, we sentence this ghost to solitary confinement

[willow dagger]

[trim grotto]

I don't really know what you mean by illegal, but they couldn't physically do it, no.

[willow dagger]

That’s my bad, I don’t use words the way they were intended

[willow dagger]

Did Cayde make ramen?

[cinder geode]

It probably took them years to predict us, because of our paracausality we are insanely hard to predict

[empty fern]

Mmmmaybe, check the cookbook, if not, then he ordered a lot from the joint in the tower

https://tenor.com/view/i-got-this-destiny-cayde-gif-8803065

[trim grotto]

No but he has a favourite ramen shop

[trim grotto]

well their "theory" is mostly correct
the corridors of time are actual timelines
that tomb was from a timeline, not our timeline

[sharp osprey]

can't the vex not simulate paracausality tho?

[trim grotto]

They cannot. The Corridors of Time weren't simulations.

[sharp osprey]

oh, were they literal?

[trim grotto]

It's how we got Saint-14 back, after all.

He was quite dead.

[sharp osprey]

thats true

which, because of this week's story, makes me wonder if we took our Saint from another timeline. Like is there a timeline somewhere out there that doesnt have its Saint now because we grabbed him from the corridors and put him in our timeline?

[trim grotto]

Nah. It's more like we... merged the timelines.

The past wherein Saint was dead and the past wherein he survived both happened, they're both "real"

[sharp osprey]

hmm, interesting
i didn't play during Dawn lol

[willow dagger]

You’re my favorite lore guy

[cinder geode]

I didn't say otherwise lol I'm just saying it probably took them a while

[trim grotto]

We don't actually have anything tying that death to the Vex

[cinder geode]

Is the corridors of time not a vex construct?

[trim grotto]

Somewhat, but the Corridors of Time allowed us to see into other timelines. It doesn't actually mean that the Vex are specifically involved with whatever events we see.

On another note, the Vex at current required literal centuries of Saint-14 being within their most powerful simulation computer in the entire solar system in order to merely cut off his Light - unless the Vex somehow register paracausality, we should be fine for that.

[cinder geode]

But why then Is our grave in the corridors of time if they don't hold us at the same amount of esteem or even more than Saint?

[empty fern]

Magic

[trim grotto]

Saint was entombed within the Infinite Forest, not the Corridors of Time.
I’ve marked this grave with one of his favorite weapons, shattered in that final confrontation. It used to be mine. All who find what we’ve left here – please leave it be. Unless… Unless you’re still out there somewhere. You’ve performed miracles before. In which case, take it. And come back to us. And we’ll kill what killed you. Or die trying.
This is all we know of what killed us.
The Corridors are walked by the Vex, they can access them, but they aren't of the Vex. We couldn't even access them without a paracausal key which acted as the core of the Sundial.

The Vex could have been what killed that version of us... or they may not have. We simply don't know, and to be honest, we barely know anything about the Corridors as it is.

They weren't... well explained.

[cinder geode]

Also ergo sum is the sword on the grave

[trim grotto]

Also true, so one could assume our death was fighting the Witness.

[sharp osprey]

the weird part is when saint says the sword used to be his

retcon?

or is it bastion he's talking about

[cinder geode]

Another thing about ergo sum while it's direct translation is "I think, therefore I am" but if we combine it with the tool tip or whatever it is, which relates to the traveler as the full thing would be "I think therefore, I am. Silent. Silent. Silent."

[west cloak]

really wish they brought back mercury or venus for episode 1

[sharp osprey]

erm, ackchually, "Ergo Sum" means just "Therefore I am" in Latin 🤓

[cinder geode]

The Latin cogito, ergo sum, usually translated into English as "I think, therefore I am", is the "first principle" of René Descartes's philosophy.

[sharp osprey]

yes

[west cloak]

cogito isnt included, which is the i think part

[cinder geode]

Oh wait it is just therefore I am

Nevermind

[sharp osprey]

[cinder geode]

It would be Therefore I am. Silent. Silent. Silent.

[empty fern]

Y’all are all wrong

Clearly it says “Silent. Silent. Silent”

[sharp osprey]

raaahhhhh i love ergo sum

funny special ammo sword

[west cloak]

Wonder what the relevance the Silent. Silent. Silent. part is refering to

[sharp osprey]

the traveler

[cinder geode]

The traveler

[sharp osprey]

"Therefore, I am silent."

the lore tab reads like an interpretation of a traveler vision or something

[trim grotto]

Bastion

[west cloak]

id asume this is talking about the great disaster?

guardians dying to crota one by one and the traveler cant do a single thing but sit there and watch

[jagged badge]

What lore tab is that?

[cinder geode]

Ergo sum

[lofty badge]

Are the remants of the shadow legion working with the Compelled Vex on Nessus since they show up during the seasonal acivety or do they just want the echo that landed on nessus for themselves

[trim grotto]

The Great Disaster? I hadn't considered that, no.
I was thinking it may reference the Hive, or our success in controlling Stasis.

[west cloak]

ah, thought it was talking about eris and the great disaster itself

the chasm being the hellmouth

i know it referenced important events the witness saw, such as red war

[trim grotto]

The Witness? I think this is from the Traveler, not the Witness.

[lapis thistle]

Honestly i think that lore tab of ergo sum is not talking a major event but the present like when you read "you watch them turn one after another, to walk down, down into the abyss" is the way that the witness did to Zavala and Crow, and it might also reference the moment that we could control darkness

But thats my view

could be totally wrong

[west cloak]

sorry brain dumb lmao, i meant the traveler witnessed

[west cloak]

ye i can see it now:
1st paragraph is how when the traveler first arrives to sol, we can’t hear it at all but it tries to call to use to warn us about the darkness
2nd talks about the traveler itself and how it appreciates everyone too much for what it has given for the first time, humanity enters its golden age
3rd is talking about how nobody is alert to the traveler attempting to warn about the darkness for its arrival to the sol system, and that everyone will die and it will likely die if it doesn’t flee
4th is more than likely the creation of ghosts, and how some feel resentment to the traveler for not bringing certain people back (event by zavala)
5th i’m not too sure tbh
6th is the burden of death and grief the witness has caused and how giving people the power of light, even though so very beneficial to humanity, has been too detrimental to many
6th is conquering the use of darkness and how they are still functional even after giving themselves to the powers that once chased them constantly
7th is the events of lightfall and final shape, where it’s suffocated and torn apart by the witness as it engraves itself into the traveler, and how we finally crossed the chasm to inside of it, reaching out to it as it has done to us
8th is the traveler finally giving us the powers of light into a sword to defeat the witness

[lofty badge]

ah

[west cloak]

wait so im reading the beginning of the lore

[empty fern]

Are you sure

[west cloak]

was the winnower the cause of life in sol?

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/the-cambrian-explosion#book-unveiling

just wondering because of this line "I caused it. I, the defector, the destroyer, the one who takes."

[jagged badge]

Unveiling is not exactly the best lore book to necessarily look for objective truths in

Considering it was given to us by the Witness

[west cloak]

ye its mainly written from the winnower's perspective from what ive seen

such as the first knife being mentioned, and how it would win over the gardener due to its use of peace when they faught

[trim grotto]

The Winnower claims it is the embodiment and cause of natural selection and fighting and so on so forth

[west cloak]

so its kind of like the apple of eden in a way

where it was the chain reaction of it being the cause of the survival of the fittest in a sense

kind of like how the traveler can give life, with proof from it's arrival to sol + what it caused to the ship carrying nezarec, causing life to grow upon it, the winnower is the causation of death and making the challenge of existance, overcoming those who oppose you

it pretty much mentioned that what we think our history is, is wrong, and that one creature saw that they benefited more by consuming life much sooner than we thought

[trim grotto]

I wouldn't take what Unveiling says too literally, it self describes the book as a metaphor. We can't really say what's true or not.

[west cloak]

fair enough

[static bluff]

with this in mind as well as the contents of that tab I interpet "I created you" as the winnower saying "you exist because I, the idea of taking from other life forms to grow yourself, exist"

[empty fern]

Winnower was hungy

[static bluff]

since that's how the cambrian explosion started and eventually led to the human species existing

that's if you just want to take the text at face value and interpret it without worrying about what it's a metaphor for, or how much of it is real in any sense

[shadow crypt]

Have cayde and the drifter ever crossed paths?

[west cloak]

iirc cayde bragged about being the reason for gambit

[trim grotto]

Cayde: This one's for the fellow calls himself The Drifter. You did warn me running with you would put a target on my back. Guess I'm in good company though, huh? After all, never had any fun without a little risk. That's the whole idea with the operation you're putting together, ain't it? MY idea by the way. Had it, like, a million years ago, back when you were still handsome. So, uh, you're welcome. You know, getting that up and running means coming out of hiding - giving you-know-who another shot at you. Hope I was around to see THAT showdown. Personally, my money was on the guy with the Golden Gun. But hey, what do I know? I'm dead.

[west cloak]

i like how the winnower just doesnt like the idea of ghosts

[trim grotto]

So, he did know Drifter, but also not very well.

[west cloak]

reminds me of the sword logic

[empty fern]

Oryx is the winnower fr

[west cloak]

real

why do you think the winnower has been so quiet

[empty fern]

Sleepin

[west cloak]

on titan

winnower fr just said "you died, which means you were just too weak, you deserved it"

[trim grotto]

which is also the basis of sword logic

[west cloak]

ye

probably inspired oryx

considering the darkness was the whole cause of oryx to become oryx

THERE IS NO DESTINY?

[trim grotto]

Well, that would be the Witness who orchestrated that.

[west cloak]

what have i been playing if there's no destiny

[static bluff]

extremely meta

[trim grotto]

The Witness sent Rhulk to Fundament to broker a deal with the Worm Gods. Which he did, while also taking Xita, the Mother Worm, for his own.
The Worm Gods then acted as they did, causing his first morph from Aurash to Auryx. Auryx to Oryx was simply him gaining the power to Take and getting a big head, after communing with "the Deep" with a power stolen from Akka.
Now, given the context, I would propose that this was the Witness moreso than the nebulous Winnower. After all, it was the Witness that freed the Worm Gods through its schemes, had Rhulk broker the deal.

[west cloak]

this was secretly meant to be a dig at lightfall's story

[west cloak]

would the witness kind of be the equivelent of the speaker in a way for the winnower?

[trim grotto]

We had never even heard from the Winnower before Unveiling, nor heard from them again until years later.

It's hard to say anything concrete about it. However, I doubt it.

[west cloak]

so the concept of the conductor of darkness is moreso still a newer being as of now?

much like how the traveler is the gardener, the being of light

[trim grotto]

I would not describe it as a conductor of Darkness exactly.
I'll copy paste what I see it as given new context.

I'm currently pondering the idea that the Winnower is an entity... but not one that acts. It's like a mythological god, or the embodyment of a force or concept. It is the nature of winnowing, it is the face of death, but the natural cycle of death. It calls itself responsible for the act of evolutionary rivalry, so perhaps that is what it is. It is that conflict, that cutting away of the chaff.

In other words, I'm seeing it like... an idea given mind.

[west cloak]

so its kind of just there

not some physical entity but moreso the idea of something

[trim grotto]

Maybe™️!
We do not know.

[static bluff]

that it's the personification of an idea is pretty certain to me, but that's not the question. the question is whether it's a physical being or a personification born out of myth

[west cloak]

i wonder if it's just the physical embodiment of the darkness of space

such as it's an empty void, that it's the pure black portions of just pure darkness

pure opposites of our gardener

[static bluff]

darkness as in literal darkness or the paracausal force?

[west cloak]

like how the darkness is envisioned

like the literal darkness in space, where nothing exists

imagine it kind of like the aurora the traveler has atm

where it's just there

[static bluff]

how can something be nothing?

[west cloak]

makes me think that might the the true form of the traveler in a way, and the ball it takes is a way for it to escape the darkness

[static bluff]

darkness is the absence of light, it's not its own thing

unless it's stated otherwise within destiny's universe

[west cloak]

like mael said, the winnower hasnt been heard much, so not much has been actually envisioned on what it actually is

like it could just be a giant existance of actual darkness, while the gardener is the giant exitence of light

kind of like how our sun can give us light, but that light doesnt light up entirely everything

there are just pockets of space, and potentially if ventured far enough, is just darkness

the darkness could just be everything where there is nothing

if we base it off of the unveiling, the survival of the fittest is a keypoint mentioned, making it the ideology it has

the light created one last ditch effort to fight back with imbuing and doing the complete opposite, giving life and second chances, making others have their own fate and overpowering those who overpower them

[static bluff]

I don't see it, darkness as the abscene of light isn't synonymous with darkness as the paracausal force. like how the light as a source of light (suns for example) isn't synonymous with the traveler's light

so I don't get how you can correlate something like the winnower with the abscense of a light source (light in its physical sense, not the traveler's)

the representation of darkness in previous city history and in that custcene is more or less what was generally known about the forces that brought the collapse. that being, not much

so it makes sense for people then, who knew that light = good because traveler = good, to represent The Bad™️ as the opposite of what they knew was good on a very basic level, a general shroud of darkness

those outlooks on humanity's enemies and ideals against the darkness as a force are becoming more and more obsolete

[ember storm]

For the record, this is just the artistic representation of the black fleet

It was shown as such during Arrivals when the pyramids claimed the planets, and during the Riis Whirlwind inkblot cutscene

[lofty badge]

yeah

Before destiny 2 i thought the darkness itself was just a giant dark cosmic cloud

but well we know it was the black fleet that caused the collapse

[ember storm]

More specifically it was Nezarec playing Civ V

[lofty badge]

kinda

[empty fern]

The Dreadnaught
(It will be relevant to lord at some point)

[ember storm]

Lord who

[empty fern]

Oop

[ember storm]

Efrideet confirmed?

[empty fern]

Efrideet fr gonna be the dreadnaught captain

[ember storm]

Pacifist colony housed within a calcified corpse would go hard

[empty fern]

Sounds like something from owl house (tho that calcified bar is low)

[mellow flicker]

Are those micah's visions where she speaks like she is the traveler like interpretation or her repeating the memory of the traveler?

In the lost ghost quests

Or when you pickup the traveler collectibles

[static bluff]

like micah says she's attempting to interpret the visions

iirc from my experience listening to all of them, they're not all memories of the traveler (might be wrong)

[mellow flicker]

When did she say it? Cause there were moments she was speaking in first person

Like she was the traveler

[static bluff]

they are visions/memories of the traveler

but right before she starts saying what they are, she always says "I can try to interpret"

[mellow flicker]

But I remember that she had a vision of basically the traveler feeling scared but willing to sacrifice part of itself to make ghosts

Like to give a piece of hope

[mellow flicker]

Really? That's annoying then, cause there are moments she speaks like she had those visions personally

[static bluff]

she's speaking in first person because she's saying what she understands as it comes to her, from the vision and memories are in first person of whoever that memory belongs to, so she just doesn't bother to change the traveler's thoughts, which are in first person, to say "the traveler feels" etc

[mellow flicker]

Like she experienced them

[mellow flicker]

Ic

Fair point

[static bluff]

she's probably going through those visions in real time as if she's experiencing them and trying to interpret them at the same time

it makes sense

[mellow flicker]

But to me the whole thing felt like the traveler is more sentient than it is