📚lore-discussion

[fresh zephyr]

We dealt with oryx riven rhulk and nezarac

[lapis thistle]

But maybe the traveller will grants us their power

[fresh zephyr]

But that could be the case also but we have no choice but to fight you could say it’s the endgame

[lapis thistle]

But I do think that we will lose something or someone

[fresh zephyr]

We may lose the cabal queen

Or someone else important

[lapis thistle]

Yes but they where powerful but not like the witness

[fresh zephyr]

But you got to remember the witness could take the vanguard or our allies in a instant

And force us to fight them

[lapis thistle]

If I have to guess we will lose the vanguard Guardians and then the "new gen" will take over

[fresh zephyr]

How would we lose ikora is one of deadliest guardians in lore

[lapis thistle]

Imagine the Iron Lord getting the zavala posicion

[fresh zephyr]

Genuine question: do you see the Witness reviving its Disciples? Or at least creating shades of them

[lapis thistle]

Ye I know don't know but in the trailer show her getting hurt

I don't know

Maybe I am dreaming to hard

I just want a really really really good story

[fresh zephyr]

I feel like Nezarec being linked to Nightmares is very real and important

And returning over and over again

[lapis thistle]

Ye I think too

[fresh zephyr]

Remember in lore the witness invades he makes the deaths quick to say but when we encounter them they make it very slow trying to scare us

It’s full of anger and rage we can’t discribe

[lapis thistle]

Ye I know

It why I think we will lose something or someone

And that shot of the ghost destroy in the ground

Don't forget that

[fresh zephyr]

Also you know those statues in the ships I think that’s the witness race

I think Nezarec will always be a constant. I could be really hyping up his past rn, but it seems like he'll be intertwined with our story in Destiny 3. Like Fikrul returning now

Could be a possibility if we beat the witness the race could split apart

I was thinking if the Witness is defeated, won't the Taken just fall apart?

[lapis thistle]

Do you guys think that the traveller is going to be destroyed?

[fresh zephyr]

I'm not knowledgeable to give a real answer lol. I know they are made Taken as they stand before the Darkness/Witness

They would still be taken but in the trailer the cloked figure was talking also

[gentle geyser]

Absolutely not

[fresh zephyr]

With the witness so I’m wondering the clocked figures are the witness race

[lapis thistle]

I don't think how Bungie will continue the story after the last final shape

[gentle geyser]

Well, its going to happen regardless because of the episodes

And they haven’t shown off the first episode most likely because it has spoilers

[fresh zephyr]

Do you think the cloaked figures in the trailer and in game are the witness race

[gentle geyser]

No

[lapis thistle]

I don't think so

[gentle geyser]

We already have seen them in a cutscene before

[lapis thistle]

The witness is more like a single being I think

[fresh zephyr]

One of those cloked figures was talking with the witness

[gentle geyser]

No

[gentle geyser]

The witness is made up of an entire race, however the veiled figure most certainly isn’t their race

[lapis thistle]

Haaaa I thought that the witness was like a single being mb

[gentle geyser]

The veiled figure is 1 of 3 things, the traveler/gardener, or the most likely option, the winnower

[slender aurora]

It’s a single being in the way 300 rats in a trechcoat are

[empty fern]

Lore question of the day

Who is Tinasha-3 (also known as Ashraven) (she also played ib)

[lapis thistle]

If I have to guess he is the embodiment of the traveller

But I might be wrong

[fresh zephyr]

The Witness is part of the Precursor raid correct?

Or is the embodiment of the race

Race*

Bruh

[gentle geyser]

It IS the precursor race

[fresh zephyr]

I am praying the Winnower says Womp Womp to the Witness

[lapis thistle]

Hahahahahahaha

Lmao 🤣

[ember storm]

the entire race butchered themselves up and formed into a collective entity

[fresh zephyr]

That's so fucked

[gentle geyser]

Average Tuesday

[ember storm]

nobody was spared, and I really don’t think everyone was on board

[fresh zephyr]

That's even more fucked

[ember storm]

this would have to include a ton of murders including all the children

like, I don’t know how to convey the fact an entire species committed mass suicide and/or genocide

it’s extremely fucked up

[lapis thistle]

So I was wrong but right also

[ember storm]

please the trailer has some shots of what appears to be tons of hands reaching out in some abyss

leads me to believe there’s still a lot in there who want it to just end

[lapis thistle]

It's the new place we are going inside the traveller I think

[ember storm]

whatever the process was, it was not clean

[lapis thistle]

I remember seeing a video of the gameplay talking about that

[gentle geyser]

The entire dlc is within the pale heart

[lapis thistle]

That is sick wallpaper tho

[lapis thistle]

Ye the pale heart that it not the traveller sorry

I wasn't remembering the name

[gentle geyser]

Yes it is

It is the traveler

[lapis thistle]

Ye

Sorry again lmao

I need to cought some lore

[dim minnow]

anyone who wasn't was just killed off prior

[ember storm]

cool

so it is really just a cult then

[fresh zephyr]

That's even more fucked

[ember storm]

genocide of everyone who opposed the plan

then mass suicide for those in on it

very cool and good

and Reddit still likes to go “but the traveler could still be the bad guy! it runs away a lot!”

[lapis thistle]

Fr fr

[little gorge]

honestly if you think the witness isn't the bad guy here after all this you must have had your eyes and ears shut for the past year

clearly the witness' goals are very bad for anyone who would like life to keep existing

[lapis thistle]

The bad guy, he literally killed an entire specie's for power

[lapis thistle]

Lmao 🤣🤣🤣🤣

S everyone's

[little gorge]

if you see a horrific existential threat and think "wait he's got a point" then genuinely just go to some other franchise

speaking of the witness destroying entire species what we saw is seemingly the first time it has used its actual power against humanity

[muted hemlock]

Do season of defiance, wish, witch, and deep take place before, during, or after lightfall?

[little gorge]

it could just be the start of the final shape but it kinda feels like a targeted attack rather than "the universe as a whole is experiencing this"

[dim minnow]

all post-Lightfall

[muted hemlock]

Alright thanks

[dim minnow]

and the order is Defiance - Deep - Witch - Wish

[little gorge]

they take place in order (lightfall, defiance, deep, witch, wish)

[muted hemlock]

Yeah I know just forgot what deep was called lol

Off to start lightfall

[dim minnow]

it's probably doing us first out of spite

[lapis thistle]

I actually don't know

[lapis thistle]

Wheyyyy let's go

I need to do mission of the season before

I already did 2 into lightfall

[muted hemlock]

I’ve just been avoiding it because I needed to buy ps+ so I could finish witch queen, I was at 21 days to do it all and here we are now

[little gorge]

what I'm saying is in entelechy eido concluded the witness is not doing what it did to the noesis to us and the eliksni out of spite

[lapis thistle]

I need to do it all in a week 😃

At least the season mission's

[empty fern]

Lore chat

Actually wait can i post about the trailer here?

[dim minnow]

that was before it got to the Pale Heart

now that it can finalize the universe, why waste any more time with us?

[empty fern]

Remember when we were wondering what the statues in the pyramids were?

[dim minnow]

then the veiled women just show up

[empty fern]

Ye

[dim minnow]

when was that cosplay show thing again?

[empty fern]

It’s confirmed, was infact not a witness in a blanket

[empty fern]

Cosplay?

[candid inlet]

itsumbral (ID 633255212903170049)

[Message Link](#🏆destiny-media message) to #🏆destiny-media
@deft bison

Command triggered by seqoxia. Message link from · May 28, 2024, 3:18 PM

[empty fern]

Maybe that’s why there’s houses

(Long stretch here, but what if the witness keeps itself together by giving everyone in itself an illusion the same way it offered Zavala)

It would kinda explain the house with the witness chimney

[dim minnow]

Bungie is doing a cosplay show

[empty fern]

Oooo

[dim minnow]

one of them is cosplaying [REDACTED]

we do not know who [REDACTED] is

[empty fern]

[dim minnow]

we are supposed to find out when we see the cosplay show

ok, I think it's tomorrow

[chrome fog]

The individuals that made up the Witness are no longer present, they are one singular entity

[empty fern]

Pain

[chrome fog]

I'm more of the mind that the Veiled Lady is the Traveler's form within the Pale Heart, and when they all fall down behind Zavala, it's an illusion the Witness makes to illustrate the weight he feels being responsible for so many people, as Titan Vanguard, as head of the Vanguard, as head of the Consensus and thus the City

[worldly river]

It'd hardly be fair for someone to be cosplaying a character nobody outside Bungie has ever seen before

[little gorge]

for all we know it's a named orange bar dread enemy

[devout vine]

I mean....veiled lady isn't exactly a challenge is it?
Especially for Harry Potter cos players

https://tenor.com/view/harry-harry-potter-dementors-kiss-gif-11979674

[empty fern]

Maybe

Oh hey with the Archie hunt, the brave lore book is done

[final geyser]

are we gonna have to kill zavala???

new trailer certainly made it seem like it

[dim minnow]

he's a main vendor so I doubt it

they would have to replace him

besides, they just got a new VA for him

[final geyser]

also tbf im hoping we get locked into the TFS campaign once we start it

it'd feel wierd to have this whole "END OF THE WORLD" story and then actually imma go play crucible

[spiral marsh]

Lol

[raw hazel]

so chat

what do we think of the trailer? (if you don't say it's peak you're a liar)

A WEEK IS TO FAR AWAAAAAYYYY

[molten briar]

Dude I’m nerding out now

[ripe warren]

Trailer was sick. Might have revealed too much

[raw hazel]

SO FUCKING COOL

[heavy vortex]

It was alright..

[raw hazel]

Also y'know, the idea that the veiled woman possibly being the Gardener or some aspect of her has cropped up in my head a few times given.....

Lemme find the tab..

[raw hazel]

I will end your bloodline

[heavy vortex]

Needed more marvel cayde.

[jagged badge]

Real

[empty fern]

Sorry too late bionicle already beat you to it

[raw hazel]

LOONIS I SWEAR

[heavy vortex]

Should’ve put a Fortnite collab somewhere in there.

[raw hazel]

Yeah well I'm gonna grab an actual lore tab so BLGGGHHH

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-the-traveler-3

The knife stole much more than your body.

At least, if given the theory that the Witness might be the First Knife is true.

As like Gest said, it could be the form the Traveler takes in the Pale Heart/could be part of the Witness' illusion to dupe Zavala.

I NEED THE CAMPAIGN NOWWWWW

[empty fern]

[raw hazel]

a week is

TOO FAR AWAYYYY

[heavy vortex]

I’m excited for final shape cause that means V Rising will be one week away from release

[novel blade]

dont forget

cant play monday

[heavy vortex]

Oh we know

[novel blade]

bungie should have dropped trailer monday, then i wouldnt be excited for a whole ass week

[heavy vortex]

We uh, have to deal with that bs like every year, and every year we have users complain TO US about not being able to play

[novel blade]

the downtime is better anyway, gets me spinning

[dim minnow]

can't wait to see the hilarious group finder posts people will put for xbox

[raw hazel]

omg

[dim minnow]

I recall seeing so many meme posts on xbox group finder when there was downtime

especially during the downtime between Arrivals end and Beyond Light

[heavy vortex]

BL’s downtime wasn’t that bad thankfully

I’m expecting this one to be a bit more chaotic

[raw hazel]

I'm house-sitting this whole weekend until tuesday

but i might stop by home for a bit on monday if the pre-load will be by then

[dim minnow]

pre-load should be all Monday

[raw hazel]

that's what i figured yeah

[jade pelican]

Is there a lore reason for the maintenance downtime? It’d be funny if there was

[dim minnow]

not as far as I know

[novel blade]

zavala tripping abou this wif

also noticed when he reaches for "her" hand ? theres a book with the black armoury forge in it

[jade pelican]

Oh. I’d laugh if there was a time period where the traveler anticipates things and forcefully shuts down guardians in the sol system

[chrome fog]

I’m PISSED I’m gonna be out of town for the launch AND THE RAID

[raw hazel]

🫵

but also holy shit that sucks

[chrome fog]

I still need to consider if I do the pre-order or wait to get deluxe after release

[raw hazel]

I'm still waiting to see how Echoes pans out before I maybe get the Deluxe upgrade

[chrome fog]

Pre-order has all those bonuses like the pyramid ship right

[dim minnow]

yes

[heavy vortex]

Wanna switch? I just finished my finals and got like nothing to look forward to till June 11th lmao

[ripe warren]

So when can we talk about that spicy trailer. This for people to avoid spoilers who haven’t seen it or are choosing not to watch it

[chrome fog]

Please I have like several things in my life going on and it’s a big struggle not to ditch them to play vidja gam and eat hot chip

[ember storm]

honestly unless I get some cash right now I might not get fs

[analog pine]

Thinking about this last night, but I didn't do closer to the heart for a few days and finally saw that cutscene a couple days ago...

I think it's really cool how Cayde, the one who had more right than anyone else to hate Crow, saw a ghost and INSTANTLY said "you know what, if he's a guardian now, then he's my ally. It's not up to me, I'm not the one with the plan".

[ember storm]

more inclined to buy paper mario tbh

[ember storm]

I mean the arm pull into prince quip seemed like it still has some venom in it but yeah he definitely isn’t letting it get in the way of the bigger picture

I like when Cayde does everything his apparent fans don’t like

[analog pine]

yeah, for being someone who never wanted to be a vanguard "bigger picture" sort of guardian, he seems to be the most willing at any time to give up everything to get the job done

[compact sky]

so the veil is just the darkness version of the traveler correct?

and pyramids are just massive ships?

[novel blade]

i like to believe
the reason there are so many pyramid ships is that they hold all the witnesses forces right, makes sense instead of people moaning they exist for no reason

[compact sky]

also who was this from Beyond Light?

[novel blade]

we will find out in tfs

who specifically it is

[chrome fog]

It's just a statue which we gain Stasis from, and we see again in the starting hallway of the Deep Stone Crypt raid, the name of the room being Clarity Control, the very thing that had been influencing Clovis Bray

[chrome fog]

That is the closest approximation we can make to it with what we can gather, both from Maya's research and the information from the Vex on the Black Heart, overall the Veil is still majorly unknown to us

[earnest needle]

the witness isn't quite right in the head ngl

[devout vine]

We all love mentally unstable people...
They're so nice to be around

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-destiny-bungie-titan-funny-gif-25547854

[solar pawn]

damn i feel bad for u that gotta suck

[solar pawn]

soulution just sue the wittness make them have a mental breakdown in court

[chrome fog]

I mean we’ve already had catastrophic consequences to someone misunderstanding what to do with the nihilistic realization of the inherent non-meaning of existence, like no duh they’re a big dumb goober

[earnest needle]

brotha want's to freeze everything and everyone but also keep them alive

that is crazy

[solar pawn]

thata rude don't shame the goober's by comparing them to the mega mind witness

[still bay]

how are amanda and zavala connected?

[chrome fog]

Real, thas true

[chrome fog]

He took her in when she made it to the Last City, she had lost her Mother right outside the Last City and was only a child then

[little gorge]

pretty sure the point is they aren't alive

but they're not dead either

[chrome fog]

Alive but not in the way that matters

Preserved from potential death and decay but also unable to improve and experience anything new

A childish solution to death

[ripe warren]

Do you think earth getting destroyed at the beginning of the trailer was real or a vision?

[chrome fog]

Real

[dim minnow]

Ok who was that one guy that asked if Shatter/well skating was canon or not?

[chrome fog]

It was sometime right before Tox re-entered chat, right?

[dim minnow]

Because it looks like it's canon now

Final lore entry for ItL book has this quote:
"It's been interesting to see the Guardians at work. Is everyone on Earth like that? Going at Mach 12 all the time?"

@grand jungle guess what

[frozen finch]

Pretty sure that’s from a new interview of a neomuni no?

[dim minnow]

It is

[frozen finch]

It might be just them seeing us on sparrows and exaggerating

So idk

[dim minnow]

No, has to be skating

[jagged badge]

Isn’t that just a basic sorta figure of speech for people going fast and being very active?

[frozen finch]

That’s what I’m thinking

[chrome fog]

Yeah but a sparrow at top speed is much slower than someone shatterskating

[dim minnow]

And Neomuni have their Cloud Striders flying around on skimmers

[ruby cedar]

what is that red thing in the distance?

[jagged badge]

The Leviathan. Calus’ old ship

[cobalt tree]

What happend to leviathan after we beat calus raid? Did we destroy it and all the calus sentinels?

[jagged badge]

Now abandoned

[ruby cedar]

is that the main game?

looks insane 😮

[jagged badge]

No, we returned to the Leviathan several times

[jagged badge]

It showed up in D2’s original raid and then showed up several times after that in seasonal content

[ruby cedar]

Oh is the "golden palace" at the top of it where the light is?

[jagged badge]

Yes

[ruby cedar]

AHH neat! didnt realise how massive it is!

[novel blade]

is it possible, the traveler/gardeneer, used to have a veil

and used to be part of the veiled entities

since saint says in a dream, whilst fighting in to the DSC, he was a women wearing a black funeral type veil

yet in the beta she was never wearing one

and the gardener did want a different rule added to the flower game

[ruby cedar]

😄

Isengard?

[dim minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/legolas-lotr-hobbits-lord-of-the-rings-they-are-taking-the-hobbits-to-isengard-gif-17564990

[cobalt tree]

I see.

[ruby cedar]

WAIT our Guardian Speaks 😮

[novel blade]

when bungie allows yes

[ruby cedar]

I was like "Whos... voice is that xD"?

[exotic cloak]

Three whole minutes since Forsaken

[raw hazel]

The Yearly Verbage™️

[exotic cloak]

Only a few lines are actually cool so I'm better with my guy not talking

When they speak at BL final battle I just wanted to kill myself

[novel blade]

the only words we needed

[chrome fog]

Well the Witness via Unveiling makes reference to a pair to the Gardener and in Alpha Lupi the Gardener makes reference to the Witness as a “false sister” (though that could be how the Witness is trying to insert itself in a similar position), and then we find the Veil and how it acts as a Darkness counterpart to the Traveler. It’s possible but we don’t have anything solid yet.

[chrome fog]

As for this rule, Paracausality! That’s it, that’s the additional rule, if we want to believe Unveiling wholesale

[outer dragon]

I don't think the Witness is the Winnower

I don't think Unveiling is from the Witness either

I'm not done with Byfs video on the Winnower but he makes several points about how the language they use and how it differs between the two

[ember storm]

I mean unveiling is pulled from the Shadowkeep artifact which is definitively from the witness

the same artifact also led us into GoS where we found a black fleet statue, which are what the witness always uses to give things

[grand jungle]

Hmm?

[fiery copper]

Chicken butt

[cold onyx]

Is there a lore reason for why we got the into the light update

[jagged badge]

The Witness’ forces attacked Earth as a last ditch effort to keep us occupied from following the Witness

[cold onyx]

In the trailer did I see earth just cut into multiple pieces

[jagged badge]

You did

[cold onyx]

That can’t be real

[raw hazel]

it's real

[jagged badge]

Maybe

[raw hazel]

and it's

[jagged badge]

Maybe not

[raw hazel]

horrifying

[jagged badge]

[raw hazel]

part of me kinda hopes it is

[cold onyx]

What is the final shape

[raw hazel]

Marble statues, apparently

And lotsa hands

[cold onyx]

Still shocked zavala turns evil

[raw hazel]

Mmmmm

Perhaps

[cold onyx]

Or is becoming corrupted

[raw hazel]

perhaps not

He's definitely going to be tempted by the Witness

[cold onyx]

Why

He legit hates the witness

The witness has to have some very good reason

[raw hazel]

I mean he's been having a general crisis of faith since Witch Queen as well- He's been through a lot of pain, a lot of loss.

[jagged badge]

Guess we’ll see what happens

[raw hazel]

Someone with the power to actually stop all that loss and pain might be tempting.

[cold onyx]

Wasent witch queen have that thing where that thought the traveler left them

[exotic cloak]

Taniks

[raw hazel]

And the whole thing with the Hive gaining the Light.

[cold onyx]

Which causes pain or that feeling of betrayal

[raw hazel]

Gest's here so I'll leave it to him (as I am cleaning the bathroom rn)

weeeeeeee

https://tenor.com/view/the-s-impsons-bush-homer-simpsons-homer-hiding-gif-4325800

[chrome fog]

The difference is minute enough that there are two distinct takes one can have:

• the Winnower is an idealized self-image that embodies what it’s initial goals were, but has strayed from that as it it not a wholly perfect “god” but an entity still prone to mortal fickleness
• the Winnower is a living concept which has some sort of connection to the Veil that influences others to similar paths, as Maya demonstrates

[cold onyx]

Are the cutscenes in tfs launch trailer in the actual game at tfs launch

[chrome fog]

How would we know that if FS hasn’t launched

[cold onyx]

I also love this launch trailer making it look like a war story but the gameplay trailer makes it look like a crazy space magic shooter

And like light hearted

[dim minnow]

Eager edge skating is canon now

[chrome fog]

You don’t say

[exotic cloak]

I mean, the story can be all the dark it wants this is the space magic shooter

[chrome fog]

It’s been dark

[exotic cloak]

A lot of times, yeah

[cold onyx]

Are the fallen are allies

[grand jungle]

oh lets goo thats sick

[gentle geyser]

Most certainly

[gentle geyser]

The house of light is

[dim minnow]

Turns out the Tiktok lore clout chasers were ahead of the game

[exotic cloak]

Is the only house that does not have their people literally starving at the point they have to cut their arms

[grand jungle]

yea lmao

[raw hazel]

tbh just from the one comment alone, i'm personally hesitant to say canon

It's too vague, imo

[cold onyx]

Ngl it’d be crazy if they had us lose in the end

[exotic cloak]

I like depressing endings, would be awesome to actually lose but that's not happening

[cold onyx]

Or like some huge damage gets done

Like very big

With big consequences

[exotic cloak]

This the big great ending of a saga and we are definitely killing the witness in the raid

[cold onyx]

That last campaign mission better be about the consequence

[exotic cloak]

Or in some mission or in a campaign, we will find out

[cold onyx]

I’m praying I don’t have to play the raid before I can finish the campaign

[exotic cloak]

They never done that

Oh wait

[cold onyx]

But if some big story thing happens in the raid

[dim minnow]

Given what other stuff Bungie passes as canon though

[exotic cloak]

I mean if loot goblins and silly dances are canon

The weird flying bug is not strange

[cold onyx]

And rhulk flying off the edge

[raw hazel]

While true- The bits about us randomly dancing- Or being little loot goblins, aren't so vague.

Versus one line that could just describe how in a hurry a lotta Guardians might generally be.

(Also vacuuming sucks)

[cold onyx]

Should I skip school to play tfs campaign

[eager trout]

No

What if...earth-based gravity/magnetism subclass?

[jagged badge]

Eh

[fiery copper]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-spongebob-squarepants-magic-conch-magic-conch-gif-41513045437981968

[gentle geyser]

So void

[eager trout]

Then uhhh...something else

[chrome fog]

We are trying to prevent consequences that would stem from the Witness’ choices

[eager trout]

Called Foundation

[plain vessel]

I need to know gang, would this be a good video for a lore recap for final shape? https://youtu.be/26ah2oCbjzI?si=JoWBy_893S4bOHhK

I was only here for witch queen and light fall and I wanna know as much as possible within the next 7 days

I’ve been watching byf content

Loremaxxing

[gentle geyser]

Byf is making a 9+ hour long lore video

Will probably release sometime this weekend

Forgot if he said when

[plain vessel]

GODDAMN IT I’M 2 HOURS INTO THIS ONE

time to byfmaxx

I’ll just watch this one and when final shape is over I’ll watch that

[chrome fog]

No Evaze despite his bullshit spinfoil has had reputable summary videos, should be fine

[cold onyx]

What’s the point of the season of the wish final mission

Has nothing to do with riven or wishes

[gentle geyser]

Its a teaser and everyone can play it

[gentle geyser]

Yes it does

[cold onyx]

What does the 16th wish even do

[gentle geyser]

Play the season of the wish questline and read the ship lore

The entire point of season of the wish was us getting the 15th wish from riven and then sending in crow, crow had to go in because of his link to mara

The ship lore reveals that crow accidentally wished to be able to apologize to cayde

[cold onyx]

Uldran

[gentle geyser]

What

[cold onyx]

And the 15th wish did what allow us to go into the traveler

[gentle geyser]

Uldran is gone

[cold onyx]

Is crow dead

[gentle geyser]

Savathun made the wish

[gentle geyser]

Uldren is dead

Crow isn’t

[cold onyx]

And cayde is dead

So what happen if he leaves the traveler

[gentle geyser]

You seem confused

Did you complete the season of the wish questline?

[cold onyx]

Yes

I was just confused

[gentle geyser]

He most likely cannot

[cold onyx]

But crow can

[gentle geyser]

Well yes obviously

[cold onyx]

I’m binging byfs video this weekend

[gentle geyser]

Crow is a guardian, resurrected from uldren

[cold onyx]

Ngl I don’t know how their gonna tell tfs story in 8 missions

They have to wrap so much up

[gentle geyser]

Ign briefly discussed the story on their insider bit and they mentioned that it almost entirely just focuses on
Us, crow and cayde, and the vanguard

[cold onyx]

No witness

[gentle geyser]

I mean

[cold onyx]

I wanna learn about the witness

[gentle geyser]

The witness doesn’t need character development

We already know what we need to

[cold onyx]

But where did he come from

[gentle geyser]

Someone else will probably respond but we’ve already had it explained in season of the deep

[trim grotto]

There's a rather vital cutscene in Season of the Deep's campaign. While it's free and before it's removed, you might want to finish it. You've got a week.

[chrome fog]

The Black Heart would have threatened to close the portal and then sever the connection Mara and Crow had, so destroying it again after the Witness provided the resources for Sol Divisive to start reforming the Black Heart was vital to ensuring our path into the Pale Heart

It also seems like it might be best if you follow through the other seasons as they are important to developing the narrative up to this current point where we are about to enter into the Traveler

[remote sky]

Questions.
What gun is crow using? I'm thinking last word, judging by how he fanned it, but I have zero knowledge.
Where is the portal riven opened? I believe I heard it was separate, no?
I have more just, not off the top of my head, right now

[novel blade]

hawkmoon

we are all very unsure why he fanned it

[remote sky]

Womp

[novel blade]

the portal riven made was in one of those gate type things in rivens ghost room

[remote sky]

Oh those

[novel blade]

mm she bascially turned one into a makeshift portal, then it turned back into a normal one when he went through

[remote sky]

What

How are we gonna..?

whuh

[novel blade]

how are we going through ?

[remote sky]

Yes

[novel blade]

mara and crow make a link

from their connection

in which allows portal to open

[remote sky]

o

[chrome fog]

Crow has a connection with Mara, and they will use that to somehow navigate through the portal and safely make passage into the Pale Heart

[remote sky]

the

WOAH

pale heart
black heart

[chrome fog]

I imagine it's like in "If the Emperor had a TTS" where those custodians only got into the Black Library by entering a specific part of their warpgate thingie

[chrome fog]

Unrelated aside from name convention

[novel blade]

pretty much

[remote sky]

Is the pale heart not The traveler

[chrome fog]

Yes but the Black Heart is only tangentially related to the Pale Heart, in that the Black Heart is a failed recreation of the Traveler's counterpart, the Veil

[remote sky]

By emperor I'm assuming calus
And I have no idea what a black library is

Besides like, idk, the stronghold from Minecraft

[chrome fog]

"If the Emperor had a TTS" is a Warhammer 40k fan series

[remote sky]

will watch

[chrome fog]

It's good, damn Games Workshop for cracking down on fan works

All for their shitty exclusive streaming service for Warhammer content

[outer dragon]

I disagree but I don't have enough information to accurately articulate why in a manner that would make me happy.
I'll get back to you in a bit

[chrome fog]

I mean I am not debating that in the end, the Winnower and the Witness are not one and the same, but it's also undeniable that they are intertwined to an extent

[novel blade]

from the trailer

i think the veiled being speaking in zavalas ear must be another entity no

[chrome fog]

We dunno 🙂

We've had theories of it being representative of the Gardener and this might be proof of that speculation coming true, but we will have to wait in a week

[outer dragon]

I agree there is a connection but the pronoun use and the formality of speach used make me think they are separate entities

[worldly river]

I want Bungie to just come out and explicitly say Unveiling was propaganda and the Winnower doesn't exist, it was just a embellishment of the Witness

I'm tired of Unveiling man

Winnower this, Gardener that

Every time there's some unknown enemy it's like "COULD THIS BE THE WINNOWER?"

I'm tired man

[chrome fog]

Not... really?

I'm gonna go sleep but like it hasn't been that egregious

[worldly river]

Sorry that just been building for a while lol

I just want this Light and Darkness stuff resolved

No more mysterious paracausal god entities

I'm also tired or our two primary sources for lore on this subject being the Books of Sorrow, a book explicitly prefaced as filled with lies, and Unveiling, which was given to use by the Witness in an attempt to sway us

I'm kinda tired of having to doubt the very basic underpinnings of what we know about Darkness lore

[remote sky]

Oh yeah what's with this whole spike on the winnower I'm seeing? All I know is that several fell behind zavala and they're always present in darkness ships

[gentle geyser]

Its because we see the veiled being in the trailer in person

We are actually close to learning if the winnower actually exists

[remote sky]

How'd we learn it's name..?

[ember storm]

the Winnower? It was first introduced in Unveiling, a metaphorical telling of the “origin” of light and darkness

[remote sky]

Will search that uo

[ember storm]

it’s really just either religious text or blatant fabrication

[remote sky]

I know the gardener is the traveler

Wtf does winnow even mean man

I know widow but damn

[ember storm]

concepts in unveiling line up with some actual events but that doesn’t mean the rest is true

[ember storm]

remove undesirable elements from a whole

for example, you’d take the time to winnow the weeds out of a garden

[remote sky]

..like free will, movement, happiness.. life.

The final shape

[ember storm]

that’s what the witness wants

the winnower and final shape presented in unveiling actually describe it differently

[gentle geyser]

The final shape is removing weeds from the flower bed

[ember storm]

again, this is also only assuming that any of it actually “happened”

[remote sky]

gasp what if the winnower is actual manipulationing the witness !!!!! or something (this is /s guys)

wtf even made the witness want this final shape shit?? Weren't they a nomadic tribe/species?? Wtf made them do or want this

And how did EVERY SINGLE MEMBER OF THE SPECIES COLLECTIVELY AGREE TO DO THIS

[ember storm]

they just decided

[ember storm]

they didn’t

[remote sky]

oooooo what

[worldly river]

Bold of you to assume that

[ember storm]

those unwilling were just killed off

[remote sky]

fuck

[ember storm]

so, genocide and then mass suicide after

[worldly river]

Pretty much

[remote sky]

I was kinda hoping that we'd get a rogue witness species guy as a vendor or something to help us beat the witness

[worldly river]

Well

[shadow crypt]

What’s the winnower in simple terms?

[worldly river]

Funny you should say that

[remote sky]

stupid idiot bum dumb

[ember storm]

dark counterpart to the gardener

[outer dragon]

So I know the Books of Sorrow suffer from being an unreliable narrator but the language used by the Deep Itself when Oryx summoned it in Verse 4.2 makes me think the Deep is not the Witness. It's certainly not Rhulk.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/xxxii-majestic-majestic#books-of-sorrow

[shadow crypt]

Gardener is the traveler?

[ember storm]

embodies all the “might makes right, skill issue tbh” stuff that darkness tends to lean on

[worldly river]

Cuz one of the Precursors did go rogue around the time the Witness was created

[ember storm]

that’s what people call it

but it wasn’t the traveler during unveiling

[remote sky]

does this mean there's rogue minds inside the witness or..? What's this mean

[ember storm]

as it’s described there, existence wasn’t even existence then

[worldly river]

We don't know anything about them aside from them opposing the creation of the Witness and them fucking off sometime later

[ember storm]

there was nothing to be the traveler in

[remote sky]

potentially alive omg

[shadow crypt]

Who narrates unveiling?

[ember storm]

in the specific context for the sake of the argument, the winnower is the opponent of the gardener

[worldly river]

Could be, surely not everyone agrees one the exact form of the Final Shape, same as the Witness wit its Disciples

[ember storm]

unknown

[outer dragon]

We don't know

[ember storm]

it’s not directly stated, but unveiling itself implies it’s the winnower

again, whether it’s something that actually exists, we don’t know

it could also still just be the witness

[remote sky]

HOOOO I would love to see the witness actively struggle with it's many minds, but I doubt it'll happen

I'm already imagining it doing some venom type shit lmao

[worldly river]

Yeah this is one of the entries I take issue with people reading too into just based on its verbage

[ember storm]

manipulating us through “hidden messages”

[outer dragon]

I think the entity summoned by Oryx and the Witness are two separate beings

[ember storm]

remember that unveiling was sent to us during the year of Shadowkeep

we’d barely contacted the black fleet at that point and had no idea what it was

[worldly river]

One of the prevailing raid theories is that it will be about is shaving away the component parts of its being

[ember storm]

this was when the witness hadn’t revealed itself

we didn’t know there was a distinction between the darkness and the thing hiding in it then

[remote sky]

I'm already seeing the witness floating being all condescending and then pulling a "stay in the box- NOOO!! stay in the box- NOOO!!!" It's a bad but perfect example.

I kinda wanna know more

[worldly river]

It's definitely something keep in mind but I've been seeing it used by some as a sort of peice of key evidence which I just don't believe it should be due to IRL Metatextual reasons and the premise of the Books as a whole

Similar reasons to why I don't trust Unveiling as a source, it was still written before Bungie had solidified what they were doing so some holes will occur

[remote sky]

Dont have the right questions so just hit me with a random, definitive fact and I'll pop off lol

[ember storm]

just throw out whatever you want to know

[remote sky]

fuck man

Why are all the damn techeuns taken lmao

[worldly river]

We were able to beat Crota due to the distant fallout of a Knight of Xivu and a Knight of (either Crota or Oryx idr) having beef

[remote sky]

that's it?! The bros had an argument so we got to kill a god

[worldly river]

It's one of those long chains if events

[remote sky]

What about the others? Any stupid ridiculous things that allowed us to murder them?

Like how.. they invite us into their throne world in some way

[worldly river]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/dgvfv9/why_crota_went_to_sleep_after_the_great_disaster/

[worldly river]

Not quite that but we only beat Rhulk cuz he doesn't actually get serious fighting us until Final Stand

He just kinda fucks around the whole fight

You used to have to use the Wish Wall to go to Riven and give her cookies for Dawning

[remote sky]

I like this idea

[worldly river]

There's retroactive lore for the team of Guardians from the original trailers, their Titan was the one who got sliced by the Witness at the start of Lightfall

The Warlock went crazy for a while hunting and killing Stasis users

And they all have Trials weapons named after them

[remote sky]

Yes reed

[remote sky]

ooh what gun types are they

[worldly river]

Shayura's Wrath SMG, Reed's Regret LFR, and Aisha's Embrace Scout Rifle

[frozen pawn]

Am I the only one think that Zavala won't survive this expansion :<?

[worldly river]

Common theory

[frozen pawn]

I mean

it
make scene because Lance's gone

[remote sky]

He may live he just might not.. be the same.

If he dies, he better be a fucking raid encounter.

[ripe warren]

Was that a vision or real with the last city and earth being destroyed?

[frozen pawn]

god damn I will miss our Blue Cucumber commander if that happen

[remote sky]

I don't think we know

[worldly river]

Even if he were to somehow end up fighting for the Witness they wouldn't have him die in content most people won't play

[remote sky]

That's,,, fair

[frozen pawn]

I heard there will be an epilogue that summary what happen in the raid after world first

[worldly river]

There is one mission locked behind Worlds First where we finish off the Witness

But you still wouldn't just summarize the death of that kind of major character

[remote sky]

One last thing, I wanted to ask if we have any extra knowledge on the taken or scorn? Things like Xol, the Deep, the process of Taking, etc

[worldly river]

At most it'd be a raid encounter with a truncated campaign version and even then, I doubt it given the Witness fight needs to happen

[frozen pawn]

nothing new I think

[remote sky]

Not what I meant lol

I mean genuinely any knowledge

[worldly river]

I mean yeah we know plenty about the Scorn and Taken

It's be weird if we didnt

[remote sky]

Besides drown/rise, lose free will, etc

[worldly river]

As far as the specifics of the process, we don't know much about Scorn except an Eliksni corpse is infused with Darkness-infused Ether, which Fikrul can create and the Witness can do too

[remote sky]

corpse? That's metal!!!
Also, who's fikrul?

[worldly river]

And for the Taken, iirc, we know that in the moment of Taking the being is whisked away before some Darkness being, likely the Witness, and offered a deal they can't refuse (probably Salvation) in return for being turned into a mindless Taken
Then they pop back in as a Taken

[worldly river]

The original Scorn, one of the Barons of House... of Kings, I think? Resurrected by Riven at the Wish of Uldren Sov

[remote sky]

So then what's up with the headshot animation of them getting slurped into nothing like some ouroboros type shit

[worldly river]

Sterile neutrino something or other, only so much for what Asher said ever stuck with me

Titan punch bad evil thing

[remote sky]

Real

[remote sky]

Well, thanks, Keldor, Overlord of Evil.

Fuck I forgot to ask if onslaught was just a simulation or not, cuz it feels like it is, but I keep hearing it get referenced as very much not

[worldly river]

It is very much real

Though I think it's one of those things where the situation has been stabilized enough that it serves as both training and actual defense

But yeah the way it's referring to is a bit tonally inconsistent

[shadow crypt]

I feel like the abomination we see in the trailer is fikrul

Didn’t we already kill that guy

[ember storm]

he wouldn’t be an abomination

it’s part of how he was resurrected with an ahamkara wish, he won’t stay dead

he also doesn’t deteriorate like other scorn do on repeated resurrection

he basically just revives on a weekly basis

[shadow crypt]

When’s the last time fikrul was relevant in the story?

[ember storm]

this season actually

he’s responsible for warlord’s ruin happening

[shadow crypt]

What’d he do?

[ember storm]

he sent his personal scorn knights on a recon and recruitment mission to all the dead house of kings fallen that were in the castle

[rich ember]

What is fikruls opinion on crow

[ember storm]

probably doesn’t even know he exists

If he does, it would probably be the same view Rasputin had on felwinter

just with reversed roles

the light having stolen away his father from his eternal rest he deserved, or whatever

[eager trout]

How exactly do aberrant Vex work? Are they entire Vex minds that don't follow the others, or individual Vex units that don't follow a Vex mind?

[trim grotto]

Either or both, but mostly the latter. Vex not conforming to the consensus.

[ember storm]

sol divisive are essentially a group of aberrants

[eager trout]

What capabilities does a Goblin have?

[ember storm]

most standard and basic capabilities

[eager trout]

Sol Divisive are hippies

[ember storm]

data housing, construction tools

just chassis to be built and destroyed on a whim

transcript from taken goblin grimoire:

[eager trout]

I know the Slap Rifle basically does anything (within Vex necessities), and the Goblin can teleport, and do the little hand repulsor thing, but what can they do in terms of software?

[ember storm]

You are a Goblin. A multifunctional armature. Your first purpose is to build — to alter the material world so it can think. Your second purpose is to eliminate threats to building.

[eager trout]

The Vex being the most advanced faction somehow having the simplest mindset:

[ember storm]

that is sort of the point yes

they’re not a people or a culture

their advancements are purely in the evolutionary sense

they constantly try to find and exploit every avenue that furthers their main objectives

still, there’s not any rush to doing so

[eager trout]

Technically an aberrant Vex that is allied with the Last City can do any job there.

[ember storm]

eh

where is this aberrant thing even coming from

[dim minnow]

he was an Archon Priest from Wolves

[trim grotto]

Consider the Sol Divisive to be aberrant. They seek the same goal of Convergence but through power through worship, and this leads them to conflict with other Vex - but they're still Vex, with the same ultimate goal.

[eager trout]

Could an aberrant Vex be one that has the same goal but instead of doing it for the Vex cause it does it for humanity?

And how does a Vex become aberrant?

[ember storm]

that wouldn’t be the same goal

[trim grotto]

That wouldn't be the same goal.

[ember storm]

the goal that all follow no matter their method is the same: everything in the universe that remains is to be vex

sol divisive are the most “aberrant” vex we’ve encountered and they’re still focused on that goal

[trim grotto]

As for aberrant, it may be as simple as deciding that a different method is more suitable.

[raw hazel]

mael

[trim grotto]

Vex units are comprised of all the radiola... Hally?

[raw hazel]

why isn't it june 4th yet?

[ember storm]

I didn’t allow it

[trim grotto]

Shaw is hoarding all the time

[raw hazel]

DAMMIT WALTZ

[ember storm]

and it’s not going to be June 4th, ever

but since I am a kind and forgiving soul

I have decided to ease the pain

[raw hazel]

pls

[ember storm]

it will take a mere 146 hours

[raw hazel]

AUGH

[ember storm]

then I will make it June 4th

but only then

no sooner or later

[raw hazel]

bamboozled again......

[worldly river]

That's right, that was the other thing I was thinking
What relation did he have with the Kings?

[eager trout]

What if a Vex was aberrant because it has a different goal but the same methods?

[dim minnow]

he killed them off with Uldren

[worldly river]

Weren't most of the later Scorn formerly Kings too?

[ember storm]

it wouldn’t exist to begin with

vex do not have different goals

it just doesn’t happen

[trim grotto]

Then it'd probably be killed. And also wouldn't be a Vex. We've never seen a Vex with a different purpose.

[worldly river]

Or rather the Kings were the source of a lot of the stock around Forsaken

[dim minnow]

I assume a lot of the starting Scorn were Kings

[eager trout]

Is it possible to hack a Vex?

[ember storm]

no

they’re still biological and sentient creatures

their technology doesn’t work without interfacing with itself

you can’t even shoot a vex gun unless you are a vex connecting to it

[trim grotto]

Vex tech, yes. Actual Vex, no, they're living things. Radiolarian Fluid houses thousands of microscopic radiolaria that are the Vex.

[worldly river]

You can take over a Vex frame though, at least if you're in the network already

[ember storm]

at that point is it really even a vex though

[dim minnow]

hmmm, you know after looking at the new trailer

it reminds me of what happened to people exposed to Clarity Control

[ember storm]

did somebody say clarity control?

An entity from beyond our own dimension?

the answer to humanity's eternal struggle: Mortality?

Were it to fall into the wrong hands, humanity, and the universe, would be utterly doomed?

[frozen pawn]

"I've a dream, got everything I ever wanted"

[dim minnow]

rewatching the trailer and...

who tf is this?

[frozen pawn]

eh

where is that in the trailer ?

[waxen pulsar]

Bro that’s bo3 💀💀

Also will Zavala be the last disciple of the witness??

[dim minnow]

ok, I may have gotten this screenshot from a Forcer video

whatever that thing is, I don't think it appears in the actual trailer

[waxen pulsar]

That’s the shadow man from black ops 3 zombies

[gentle geyser]

I don’t get the whole thing with people saying Zavala is gonna be a boss or hes joining the witness, its just him being manipulated

[waxen pulsar]

Yeah possibly manipulated into becoming a disciple

If you think about back in season of the haunted that could be used as a key point

[gentle geyser]

Thats less so manipulation or more so just mind control

[waxen pulsar]

Was calus mind controlled?

Granted calus and Zavala are nothing alike

[gentle geyser]

Zavala won’t be a boss and he won’t outright join the witness

Hes just being manipulated

[frozen pawn]

he lost his wife, his child

he lost his bro (Cayde)

he lost his new child (Amanda)

I don't think any man can stand that...

[gentle geyser]

Yes

So

Manipulation

[waxen pulsar]

Hell we saw him go into the goop, for all we know he could be mind controlled

I’m trying to piece together who we will face in the raid, I doubt bungie will just make all new bosses for it

And rn, narratively, it makes sense with the last trailer

[gentle geyser]

Anyways prediction that I brought up earlier, we are 100% losing at the end of the campaign and the raid is us actually stopping the final shape, Zavala might actually be the one who triggers the final shape or allows the witness to enact it

[waxen pulsar]

Oh yeah we are definitely finalized

[gentle geyser]

The cutscene at the beginning of the new trailer is way too detailed to honestly just be a dream sequence or something

[waxen pulsar]

Could have just been for the trailer

[dim minnow]

stuff in trailers is usually ingame

the Zavala D2 trailer is an exception

[gentle geyser]

Love discord mobile

Least buggy experience

[dim minnow]

?

what's going on?

[gentle geyser]

Don’t worry about it discord going back and forth with me rn

[dim minnow]

how so?

[gentle geyser]

Lost wifi for like half a minute and then messages kept failing to send

Had failed messages for like 2 minutes

[cold onyx]

But the last mission DOESENT unlock until worlds first

[gentle geyser]

If anything that further suggests my point

Considering that the worlds first is 3 days after launch

[cold onyx]

Unless the last mission is like to start showing consequences

[dim minnow]

looks like Datto accidentally revealed that a certain character will appear in TFS

[gentle geyser]

Oh?

[cold onyx]

Who

[gentle geyser]

If anything datto seemed the most reliable to not reveal spoilers

[cold onyx]

Ikr

[dim minnow]

well I'm not sure if it counts as leak

[gentle geyser]

You can dm me it if you want

I’ll check it when Im home

[cold onyx]

Guys o think the final shape is them removing gambit to give destiny its final vision

[gentle geyser]

Watch the raid have a mote mechanic

[cold onyx]

Gotta bank those notes guardian

How bigs the update file

[gentle geyser]

No clue yet

Probably very large

[cold onyx]

Is pale heart inside the traveler

[gentle geyser]

Yes

[cold onyx]

Then why not crack open the shell why a portal

[gentle geyser]

Because its not the physical interior

[cold onyx]

Bro is pale heart supposed to be like biggest open world location

[gentle geyser]

Yes

Mostly because the campaign is entirely linear

And you physically can’t leave till you finish the campaign

[dim minnow]

wait what?

[cold onyx]

???

[dim minnow]

we can't leave until we finish it?

[gentle geyser]

They said this officially

All the way back at the original reveal

Hence way prismatic is fully unlocked for the entirety of the campaign

[cold onyx]

Isn’t lf linear

[gentle geyser]

Its semi linear

Once we finish the campaign it becomes an actual destination

From whats been said it’s probably large as hell too

It’s probably around 4 to 5 zones

[cold onyx]

I hear destination activities look more complex

From g play

[gentle geyser]

We don’t know fully yet

[cold onyx]

I hope 2 strikes

[gentle geyser]

We aren’t getting two

[cold onyx]

1

[cold onyx]

@gentle geyser when you say a more linear campaign your saying its like 8 steps

[past glen]

i dont remember bungie saying you cant leave

[gentle geyser]

They said it on the reveal stream

[past glen]

from way back when?

or a few months ago

[cold onyx]

So I can’t go to the tower

So that means you can’t unlock the new destination as a f2p

[remote sky]

RAISINS.

[hollow zealot]

is brother Vance like dead dead

[gentle geyser]

Yes

[tacit shuttle]

so I found out that the witness comes from a civilization that had mastered the darkness and I was wondering, does all the pyramid tech and the black fleet all come from that civilization that got melded into the witness?

[past glen]

from the ahsa cutscene

it does seem so

it looks like the precursors built the pyramid tech

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0CKckjryVI

[raw hazel]

probbo

[tacit shuttle]

so they turned into the witness collectively for decidedly no other reason than to just make the final shape?

[past glen]

well thats making it seem like a pointless thing

but yea they were searching for purpose

and their purpose they decided was to enact the final shape

i think the entellechy lore book sums it up but basically there were rival factions among their race that couldn't agree on how to achieve the final shape

eventually one faction won out and (i think) forced everyone into becoming the witness

[tacit shuttle]

how do they explain how the witness got its slicing powers? does it just come with being a darkness entity?

[past glen]

eldritch entity beyond our comprehension

not a very good analogy

but its like asking why we have abilities

like its just a part of us with our powers

[raw hazel]

The Witness is really good at fruit ninja

[frozen pawn]

soooo, the Witness final shape is "every stay still forever"?

so there won't be suffering anymore?

it must be really scared of the future if that's the case O_O

[past glen]

well it aint scared

its idea is there can be no suffering if everything is static

[raw hazel]

this reminds me

i should start my lore re-read tomorrow...

Saw a list in another server of potentially relevant lore to touch on again before final shape

[past glen]

im mad excited to see what the veiled figure is about

its about damn time

[raw hazel]

i have

thoughts

on that still

that me will share shortly after i get a snack

okay

Small disclaimer, these are my own personal bits of speculation

[vapid tundra]

BRO! The veiled persons behind zavala in the new trailer.. WHAT IF... That really is a representation of the gardener... It resembles the light falling within zavala.. and him taking on the darkness

What if those things falling into dust behind him is the representation of light

[past glen]

go for it

[vapid tundra]

it shined the light in his eyes

then it fell behind him

[little gorge]

I can't wait for my yearly read of unveiling

[raw hazel]

Possibility 1: Gardener, or some aspect/representation of her. In rereading lore, the Traveler 3 card has been a lot in my mind lately- Describing a knife, of a million blades, that seemingly just stole more of the Gardener than just her body- Especially given how prolific knife imagery is within Pyramid architecture, the million blades could be the Black Fleet, etcetc- (which is of course partly presuming that parts of Unveiling are true- but that’s an egg for untired Hally to maybe address.)

[little gorge]

also I don't want to get my hopes too high but the veiled figures do make me think we're actually getting gardener/winnower lore

[raw hazel]

(Also eating some buttered bread before i go onto the next possibility because i am hungry)

[vapid tundra]

guranteed actually... im betting on it

we're Going to see the traveler

in some shape or form

[little gorge]

just don't get disappointed in case it doesn't happen

[vapid tundra]

lol

i dont expect shit

[little gorge]

I'm going in with an attitude of just seeing what bungie cooked up, I'm not expecting any particular plot points

[vapid tundra]

but that trailer

was incredible

[little gorge]

it was

[vapid tundra]

ong tho

[little gorge]

i do think the story will be good

i just don't have expectations for what exactly will happen

[past glen]

i have faith in bungie

[vapid tundra]

I don't like bungie revealing shit in their vidocs and trailers

i feel like there's too much

[past glen]

but i also really wanna see other ppl's ideas

[vapid tundra]

and by the time we get to the launch..

[little gorge]

same

[vapid tundra]

"oh that's from the trailer"

[little gorge]

i just want to let them cook

[vapid tundra]

"I saw this coming"

[past glen]

tbf if they hadnt revealed prismatic

i think sales would be a lot lower

but like

man

[vapid tundra]

Launch trailer revealed wayyyyyyyy to much and i regret watching it even though I knew i'd get shown some shit

Prismatic reveal was fine

content wise reveals are fine

just they gotta keep some shit under wraps

especially cinematics/ingame content

[little gorge]

the trailer was 2 minutes and seemingly from a lot of different cutscenes, it's barely going to be a sliver of the actual thing

[vapid tundra]

Do what you have to to give us the hype and monetizations

but like.... again.. just like beyond light and forsaken

I feel they've revealed literallye verythint

I want to be surprised

Beyond light was cool but I knew everything that was gonna happen lol

before i even played it

same with forsaken especially

it sucked

Final shape doesn't feel the same it's just I feel like they revealed so much already that they gotta be careful

Cause if im goin into this expansion, i can't be expecting all this shit.. there's gotta be more

that we dont know

[little gorge]

my conspiracy theory is that was their plan (if they planned to reveal it they would have at least teased something in the august showcase) but the community went into such a catastrophic "it's over" phase that they had to reveal it

same with the dread

[vapid tundra]

** I hate being told what's going to happen and I prefer being told what might be happening**

[little gorge]

like you can't tell me they didn't at least have concept art in august

[vapid tundra]

Other than that,

Final Shape has become my favorite expansion

and it's not even out yet

lol

I shouldn't be feeling that right now is what im saying

I should be feeling that day after launch

when im head over heels into it

Discovering shit

instead of knowing shit

Balance that out and we'll be good

[past glen]

i guess i'm gonna go back into doing what i was doing in between lightfall to itl reveal

[little gorge]

there will definitely be a ton of stuff to discover

[past glen]

gonna do ch ivalry 2 for a week

[vapid tundra]

oh hell yes

It feels better than beyond light

when i knew everything before it happened

in this case i do not

which is great

[little gorge]

bungie doesn't show us this much too often

[vapid tundra]

Bungie shows us literally too much all the time

That's the problem lmfao

[past glen]

i agree with cardinal

[vapid tundra]

They put to much effort in

When they could do better just giving hints

Like maybe a single image in a trailer..

not a whole cinematic segment

cause what i saw in the launch trailer was an entire fucking missions worth or 2

of cinematics and lines

Beyond light revealed ALL of that

which again, it's better this time around

[heady monolith]

when the story trailer shows off the story

[vapid tundra]

I feel like we got a cinematic peak into 3 different missions

out of the supposed 8 missions we have

But like that beginning of the trailer was perfect

they showed a hint

Now they have us guessing

Which is what the entire thing should be lol

And that's what they did until it turned into a cinematic hell

[sick yew]

I mean

We are still guessing

[vapid tundra]

^

Which is good

[past glen]

i mean i dont think it really revealed too much

[vapid tundra]

im just comparing it to the past

[past glen]

oh for sure

[heady monolith]

exactly, it gave us zero context as well other than what we already knew

[gentle geyser]

I mean, its not that big of a deal

[vapid tundra]

this time around they did perfectly fine

[gentle geyser]

Like

[vapid tundra]

yeah no it's not

[vapid tundra]

Which is fucking great

Sorry just ranting i guess

comparing expansion to expansion to much

getting in too deep

[raw hazel]

POSSIBILITY 2… Winnower??

Now I know what you’re saying, “But Hally! UNVEILING!!” now, as I mentioned earlier I am at least partly working off of the idea that parts of Unveiling are true, even the metaphorical bits with the Gardener and Winnower. This is going off of the theory that the Veil (the Darkness counterpart to the Traveler) was originally the Winnower- In that the Gardener and Winnower were once one entity prior to separation-

So maybe the Witness sclorped up the Winnower entity as apart of the massive death ritual that created the Witness.

[raw hazel]

mrp

[past glen]

hm that last bit is an interesting thought ngl

[heady monolith]

doing that is how lightfall disappointed us in ways that literally almost led to the downfall of the game

[past glen]

havent heard that before

[vapid tundra]

Beyond Light and Forsaken were revealed 100% before we got our hands on it.. Final Shape didn't do that.. it just had us at the edge of our seats... Which is what we need

[heady monolith]

get a load of this nerd over here

[vapid tundra]

what does that have to do with this lol

[little gorge]

the only bit that you could say was too much was zavala

[raw hazel]

i would be happy to expound next time i am less eepy

[heady monolith]

was making a joke about comparing expansions

[vapid tundra]

Yeah i feel like we saw too much of zavala

[vapid tundra]

o

lol

[raw hazel]

wow rood

[past glen]

if i remember in the future pls do

[heady monolith]

:3

[vapid tundra]

Otherwise, there's so much we do not know lmfao

and once again, that is perfect

if they drop another fucking trailer im going to cry

2 of the 38 apparent soundtracks were released today just like lightfall and witch queen years prior

[heady monolith]

i doubt they will, launch trailers are usually the last that drops

[raw hazel]

It’s a whole thing of speculation from others which I have partly absorbed myself- I’ll make an actual note of this for tomorrow

[vapid tundra]

Michael Salvatori ^^

[heady monolith]

other than the trailers that have community reactions

[vapid tundra]

Just wait till echoes lmfao

whole load of info dumps

I wanna see what happens

This is a new era for this game

[past glen]

poor michael salvatori

sony: we wont fire anyone

sony:

[heady monolith]

considering bungie's track record we arent seeing that until launch of echoes

[vapid tundra]

LMFAO

Watch em explain shit after the fact

Nah but i srsly think that echoes will be badass

It looks like it will be about the Vex and I wanna see the Vex become the demons we would fear

[heady monolith]

the whole episodes thing feels oddly spooky to me

it also feels dreadful in a way for me

[raw hazel]

shit final shape feels spooky to me

[vapid tundra]

Episodes feel a little bit more organized

[vapid tundra]

that hand grabber bro

like

freaky

[raw hazel]

mr, we dont want body horror! meanwhile half the destination

[past glen]

we dont want body horror!

[gentle geyser]

The final shape was given an actual serious tone, this is probably the most serious the series will ever get

[past glen]

body horrors the earth

[vapid tundra]

nahhhh if the witness grabs me im fucking closing the application lmfao

[vapid tundra]

That i agree

[heady monolith]

I DO GIMMIE STUFF THAT WILL MAKE ME CRAWL OUT OF MY SKIN

[vapid tundra]

ive never seen such true horrid intent in an expansion b4

[gentle geyser]

• proceeds to create exactly what body horror is

[vapid tundra]

All of these bosses we've faced

oryx

witch queen

etc never posed this much

[novel blade]

my man the wintess is turning into the river spirit from spritied away

[past glen]

its not even "horrid" per se

[vapid tundra]

and they really brought the tone to the best it could be

[past glen]

like the witness genuinely thinks its right

[vapid tundra]

LMAO

[past glen]

but at the same time

[vapid tundra]

[past glen]

is the universe's biggest asshole

[vapid tundra]

im just glad we aren't facing this one dood and facing what we originally thought to be real

and entire dark fleet

[novel blade]

biggest asshole is the gardener and the winnower

[vapid tundra]

of dread

[heady monolith]

guys, what was that giant orge screeb from the trailer btw

[gentle geyser]

Yo this witness person spittin facts