📚lore-discussion

[ember storm]

Ketches are almost exclusively stationed as they’re just the basic HQ for houses

[jagged badge]

I dunno about that

[warm gazelle]

well yeah but how often are fallen houses moving from planet to planet

[chrome fog]

We have a ship that is literally a skiff, yes they are; also in Plunder, there were skiffs surrounding the ketches we raided

[ember storm]

judging by the fact there’s only 2 active opposing houses, all the time

[jagged badge]

We see Ketches fly over the Cosmodrome and Skiffs dispatch from the Ketch to drop off troops to the ground

Probably other places too

[chrome fog]

… how frequently are we moving between planet to planet

[jagged badge]

I just remember it primarily in the Cosmodrome

[chrome fog]

And then compare that to the presence of Eliksni across the system

[empty fern]

Wait, does the guardian skiff have a lore tab? Or is it considered a cosmetic

[ember storm]

pretty sure it’s a Mithrax thing

[empty fern]

Neat

[ember storm]

ok no it was a spider thing

funny lore tab actually

[empty fern]

Was that the one about crow winning it in a bet? (Or was that the chosen sparrow)

[ember storm]

it’s Spider hiring somebody on the spot solely because their personal craft is named “Death to Kells”

which is the cosmetic ship itself

[empty fern]

Oh, that’s pretty funny

[chrome fog]

I would suggest asking someone here about the history of the Eliksni, i just woke up and I need get moving a bit so I won’t be available to help out; informing oneself best helps understanding

[warm gazelle]

it's basically them getting their ass beat over and over from what I can tell lol

[ember storm]

said it before, no enemy ever gets wins beyond the witness exactly once

[warm gazelle]

even before the eliksni went to war with humanity

just getting the shit kicked out of them by the universe

[ember storm]

their society was literally thriving until the witness came along, which isn’t unique as it ruins literally everything it touches

the hive are locked into an eternal cycle of death forever, I’d say they have it more rough

[warm gazelle]

the hive like it though

I think

[empty fern]

You replayed the final mission of witchqueen yey?

[ember storm]

even Xivu is having a rough time, and that was before she was banished from her throne world

the witness called her trash directly to her face, her armies are losing numbers daily, she’s lost all of her family

and then the one possible grace permanently crippled her

[warm gazelle]

no

[chrome fog]

Not one enemy race save for the Witness is wholly irreprehensible, that’s kind of the point of our alliances with House Light and Caital’s Cabal Empire

[nimble breach]

Question. If Master Chief was in Lukes, Han, Chewy, etc, position in A New Hope. Do you think he'd be able infiltrate the Imperial I-class Star Destroyer
and rescue Princess Leia? If not, what if he was paired with Blue Team? What if he encountered Vader just as Obi Wan did, think he'd survive, what about the rest of Blue Team? Now second scenario, let's replace Chief and Blue Team with the current members of the Vanguard, Ikora, Zavala and maybe Crow? How would they fare differently?

[lime heath]

omg hiii

[ember storm]

I don’t know what this means

[warm gazelle]

bro thinks this channel is for lore for every sci-fi/fantasy universe ever designed

[chrome fog]

He’s invaded similarly large Star ships.
They’ve also done the same, season of the Worthy opens up with Zavala and Ana Bray infiltrating the Almighty, and the Guardian has infiltrated the Dreadnaught

The main concern comes from encountering Vader, though I don’t doubt they can provide ample distraction to break Vader’s concentration

[warm gazelle]

Guardians are crazy strong. Really high up there on the protagonist power scale.

[chrome fog]

Eeeeh Vader could force joke and then crush their Ghost

The point of Paracausality is to break powers along because it literally scales with belief despite objective capability and capacity

[warm gazelle]

idk, maybe

i think the light could protect you from the power of the Force though

[chrome fog]

In any case, either party composition is most likely carrying enough ordinance to do considerable damage as well as just. Drop a grenade at Vader’s feet

[warm gazelle]

or, hell, maybe the darkness

[chrome fog]

We dunno

Force works differently thank Paracausality

We don’t know how they interact mechanically

[warm gazelle]

we don't even know our midichlorian count

[chrome fog]

Fuck the midichlorian count

[warm gazelle]

when D1 came out I hated it and used to call the game a Star Wars knock off

where the light side was at war with the darkness side for reasons

and your level was your midichlorian count lmao

[nimble breach]

ngl Arc Titan vs Vader seems pretty overkill

You have someone with unlimited force electricity, then shooting you with guns that can do the exact same lmao

Imagine Vader getting shot in the chest with an arc weapon, followed bya lightning grenade, then giga sniped by Thundercrash

While he is also has his force energy suppressed by Ikoras supression Grenades

Then for Crow to pull up and one tap him with Hawkmoon

[chrome fog]

But the supression grenades might not suppress his force abilities

Because we have no frame of refernce for how the Force operates in reference to paracausality

[nimble breach]

true

I'd assume the force operates like the traveler though?

Or at least, the power of the traveler

[chrome fog]

The Traveler uses paracausality

Every bit of magic in the Destiny universe is Paracausality

[nimble breach]

That's what I meant

[ember storm]

here’s a thought

[nimble breach]

THat I assume the force and paracasuality could function in the same way with similar rules maybe?

[ember storm]

Guns

[nimble breach]

Has Vader ever shown feats of manipulating fire?

Oh wait

dont answer that

[chrome fog]

Holding blaster fire with the force is possible

So I imagine our weapons too can be held by the Force

[nimble breach]

"don't answer that"

🤣

[empty fern]

What if I keep shooting him

[chrome fog]

But also we do have a shit ton of stuff we can throw out at one instance, I imagine Vader would be overwhelmed by a grenade, a melee ability, whatever three weapons we have equipped, and a super

[nimble breach]

even three supers all at once

back to back ways of combating him

[chrome fog]

Ehhh

Actually wait I just got what you meant, as in a fireteam of three all casted super at once

[nimble breach]

I feel if we're talking about movie Vader, even Chief can 1 v 1 him, due to information provided in the Halo 4-5 encyclopedia (that shows Chief can resist a Lightsaber entirely, might as well be a stick from a tree), and his feats vs the didact if we're adding force powers too. But Disney Vader and Legends Vader was powerscaled out the ass

[nimble breach]

yea

[chrome fog]

Sticky Grenade

[nimble breach]

Rip him out his suit lmao

[chrome fog]

Grenados and rockits and needler and weapon spam

[nimble breach]

THe Halo 4 encyclopedia pretty much power scaled Chief to be anti vader . Being it delved deep into how the armor works, I donated mine so i cant reference what it exactly said

But pretty much Lightsaber attacks and any force armor crushing is not happening

So it'll be a 1 v 1 of who can throw the most shit at the each other, the armor negs a lot of BASE force abilities, if not all base. (excluding force lightning or any mcguffins like that)

[chrome fog]

Well that's assuming Vader is one to go all out and most efficiently eliminate his enemy, which he doesn't

Vader's slow and methodical style of fighting - in part because of his unoptimal cybernetics not allowing a lot of movement, another part because he does the thing of not totally going all out because he got enough power - would certainly give Chief enough time to set up and overwhelm Vader, though he might take a tactical approach which might work against his favor

But enough about speculative powerscaling

[ember storm]

not constant barrages

[chrome fog]

Fair, it's generally demonstrated to be a burst of fire while everyone else stares stupified

[warm gazelle]

so I just noticed if you kill a lucent hive with darkness powers, it deletes their ghost, no finisher required

why does that happen to them but not in the crucible against other guardians?

[chrome fog]

That

That sounds like a bug on your part

[eager trout]

However, Vader is Vader.

[chrome fog]

I am me

Yes

[warm gazelle]

is it? so frenzied blade isn't supposed to do that?

[elder yew]

I’m need help with legend lightfall campaign I need a good person to help me I’ll give you a gift of your liking

[chrome fog]

Lightbearer Hive's whole mechanic aside from having similar Light abilities is having a Ghost to crush

[chrome fog]

This is not an lfg channel, you might want to look in #looking-for-group

[ember storm]

you would be able to kill ghosts with essentially anything if gameplay followed lore

paracausal power is just an insta kill, which is what we already use anyway (guardians are inherently paracausal, so hand go crunch)

of course a dreg with a knife could still kill a ghost

it just isn’t going to have a big light show like Sagira or Sundance had

[chrome fog]

Fallen spears and knives was a very common way for Ghosts to die in teh Dark Ages

And Ada-1 has sniped more than a couple Ghosts with Izanagi's Burden

[jagged badge]

That wasn’t their point

[ember storm]

I know

I just like to ramble on any related subject

speaking of which

lore quiz

how many ghosts have a confirmed kill count

the answer may surprise you

[jagged badge]

Deux?

[ember storm]

pretty sure it’s three

unless sloane’s has knives just for show

[chrome fog]

Uh, Drifters, Sloane's , uuuuuh

Fuck there was another one

Ours? Or Cayde's

[ember storm]

ours

Sundance has literally zero characterization in actions or words

we have Cayde calling her buddy and Ghost calling her flashy and reckless

that is it

[chrome fog]

Aw

But also yea

Dope, lil light

[empty fern]

What we talking about?

Oh ghost kills

[chrome fog]

Ghosts with a body count

[jagged badge]

Don’t go there

Rule 3 remember?

You’re still alluding to it when you don’t need to at all

It’s not necessary

[empty fern]

A classic blunder

[eager trout]

Fine

Anyways

How is a Ghost even supposed to kill someone?

[jagged badge]

Flying very hard into them with their shell

Or with a specially equipped shell

Or by activating weaponry and such

[ember storm]

ours specifically manned a tank and gunned down scorn

[chrome fog]

The example for Drifter's Ghost; as Eris mentioned, they essentially accelerated themselves through some enemy heads
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/heaven-or-hell#book-a-man-with-no-name

[empty fern]

Bonked too hard

[trim grotto]

That isn't a thing

[jagged badge]

Even if that was a thing, this feels like an obvious answer lmao

[eager trout]

Ghost doing the Holdo Maneuver

[chrome fog]

Sloane's also probably sliced a couple Taken maybe, however that's just from the fact that its shell has sawblades on its front

[warm gazelle]

I just witnessed it happen multiple times in a row, so ig issa bug

[trim grotto]

If it happened multiple times, are you sure you're actually fighting Lightbearer Hive and not just regular Lucent Hive?

[warm gazelle]

pretty sure, that's what a Lightbearer Knight is right?

[trim grotto]

If they're wielding Void against you and using Supers, yes. What's the context here?

[warm gazelle]

I was doing a guardian games strike to get some medallions, got the strike that ends with you fighting the massive Lucent Knight I forget the name

There's a lot of lightbearer knights in that one

But I'd hit them with frenzied blade and there would be no prompt to finish the ghost

and i'd get points for the kill showing up

[trim grotto]

It's possible they either weren't all Lightbearers or your fireteam got the Ghost, because that's never been a thing and that hasn't ever existed as a bug, either.

[warm gazelle]

The Lightblade

that's the name of the strike

[trim grotto]

Well, Alak Hul's Ghost survives the encounter, so there's that.

[warm gazelle]

also somewhat related question: are lucent hive no longer capable of wielding darkness?

[trim grotto]

Well, Lightbearer Hive no longer have their Worm Parasites. So their connecting thread to that power is severed.
Regular Lucent Hive still have their Worms, though don't need to feed them with death due to the influx of Light into their Tribute lines.

[eager trout]

Is there a possibility to have a plant-based Light subclass?

[next bobcat]

when we go to the black garden, is that the same as the place we go to in the quest to get deterministic chaos? and, what was the black heart?

[next bobcat]

probably not. the traveler, so far as we know it, has given us all extent of its power types in solar, arc and void, it may be hiding something but we have no reason to believe that. plant-based stuff? you might be referring to the roots and stuff in Root of Nightmares, which is like the opposite of dark resonance - pure light, not turned into an element. correct me if i'm wrong

[chrome fog]

Somewhat, though even then I don't think that's what they're referring to and you were correct on initial assessment

But no, a "Plant" subclass is not likely, considering that the Light subclasses follow the manipulation of vital interactions within physics, and plantlife itself is a very derived result of those very interactions interacting

[chrome fog]

Yes; in fact, we've gone there before in the Garden of Salvation raid, and that mission would be our third(?) major visit to the Black Garden

For the subclass discussion:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/k4k6ox/light_is_not_the_fundamental_forces

[warm gazelle]

ngl I miss sunsinger

that's probably the only thing from D1 i miss

[eager trout]

I was thinking more about the beam of light that the Traveler shot at the Witness' ship and made plants grow in it.

[shadow warren]

That’s what caused the roots and plant stuff in root of nightmares

[trim grotto]

Terraforming as a weapon! Fascinating concept.

I won't go ahead and say it's likely, but I also wouldn't say it isn't possible.

[chrome fog]

Maybe with that sand subclass idea we though of, little roots and branches intertwined

[eager trout]

https://youtu.be/8X1_HEJk2Hw?si=Mije5-o-FCMUHJkJ

Is it possible that something like this exists in the Destiny universe?

[eager trout]

The sand subclass would definitely need a Super that turns you into a giant sand monster like Sandman does.

And the other would be a sandstorm

[chrome fog]

… thermite grenade. For Solar. Or the one for Void.

[ember storm]

mida probably has a hotdog maker

[empty fern]

Multi or mini

[errant olive]

depends on the hotdog

[empty fern]

Ah true

[errant olive]

watch how bungo would make it a fist of havoc reskin

[eager trout]

Speaking of fist, Titan's sand melee would probably a long range sand punch

Also, I got some ideas for subclasses:

Plant-based subclass representing information or math

And metal-based subclass representing willpower

[eager trout]

Just imagine defeating the Vex by sending the entirety of Pi into the Vex Network.

[jagged badge]

Stasis is already about willpower and control really

[eager trout]

Oh

I wonder if we'll ever get Light and Darkness in their purest form as subclasses.

When you think about it, once the Light and Darkness saga ends, there's a possibility we can get basically any other non-Light or Darkness power as a subclass

[trim grotto]

I wouldn't bet on it. There aren't many other sources of paracausal power.

We've got... Ahamkara.

[eager trout]

Not paracasual, but things we can maybe learn how to use without the need for much except training and maybe technology.

Something like a Vex subclass we can get through Vex technology that allows us to create digital constructs like the Vex can.

[ember storm]

Vex would be perfectly capable of computing it honestly

the only thing that irks them whatsoever would be paracausality, the antithesis of basic logic and calculation

[chrome fog]

They are perfectly capable simulating near perfect copies our or universe readily, the concept of pi - a naturally recurrent integer - is not something they are incapable of understanding

[ember storm]

honestly I fully expect them to have a section of the infinite forest dedicated to pure equation tests

[shadow warren]

If it’s infinite then yea

Theoretically you could say that definitively

[trim grotto]

https://youtu.be/fiKnRf54lS0?si=1kK1S-Y4XDZqnt1w

[next bobcat]

could they calculate the Collatz Conjecture? (look it up)

[abstract rover]

Is siva completely destroyed or is some of it still out there somewhere?

[trim grotto]

There are definitely pockets of inert SIVA sitting around here and there

Heck, some was used to create Neomuna

[abstract rover]

Oh cool I didnt know that

[eager trout]

But every computer (or whatever the Vex have) has a storage limit, so if the universe is not infinite, and Pi is truly infinite, then eventually there's a point where Pi becomes too long for them.

[ember storm]

the infinite forest is infinite

there is zero limit

[eager trout]

But that's not logical, wouldn't they have trouble with that?

[ember storm]

what’s illogical about it exactly?

[trim grotto]

c'mon waltz i just gave you a quote disputing that

[ember storm]

“Just” as in like eight hours ago?

I didn’t read anything above this

[ember storm]

ok makes sense

[trim grotto]

there were like seven messages between your last message

silly billy

[exotic cloak]

I got to read a blog of Ishtar Collective called "The Dream of the Deep Stone Crypt", Im very surprised Bungie was already giving hints to lead us to Europa on Taken King

[eager trout]

Why do the Eliksni have so many V's, S's, and K's in their names?

[ember storm]

when your language is made by people with mandibles and shoddily translated into English, that’s what you get

[deft vortex]

Hello! Can anyone help me with one quest which in Polish is called "Pod złą gwiazdą" (1 photo) idk the English name, sorry.
I would like to get the wish keeper bow, but despite trying, I can't finish it. I would appreciate the help.

(1)

[exotic cloak]

I think this one is not the channel for that pal

[eager trout]

You need DLC for that

[ember storm]

better suited for #❓destiny-questions meethinks

[deft vortex]

I have that

[deft vortex]

sorry I m new

[ember storm]

actually wait

are you just looking for a team?

[deft vortex]

yep

[ember storm]

;lfg

[candid inlet]

Looking for more players?
Check out #looking-for-group for links to our LFG channels, and further resources including:

• Destiny 2 LFG Discord (Formerly the Destiny 2 PC LFG, now for all platforms)
• D2Checkpoint
• Bungie Fireteam Search
• Reddit's r/Fireteam
• Reddit's r/DestinySherpa

[ember storm]

uh

also I would note

you are 23 levels below recommended

[deft vortex]

ik

weit

I also have titan

it s closer

@ember storm

[exotic cloak]

Believe you would need those 23 levels pal

[deft vortex]

[exotic cloak]

Just go playing normal, campaings aren't power level locked

You have the DLCs?

[deft vortex]

yep

[exotic cloak]

Start with them and do focus actuvies and weekly challenge

You will get higher power level equipment

[deft vortex]

[jagged badge]

This isn’t lore

[exotic cloak]

Is the lore a guardian rising

Expanded

[deft vortex]

sorry

[empty fern]

Summarize the origin of eremis in 2 words

[fiery copper]

Blames traveler

Or maybe this one:

Misheard Veekris

[empty fern]

Yea second one

[chrome fog]

Yer good, don’t sweat it

[ember storm]

Destinypedia bad

[fast tapir]

stasis lady

[empty fern]

[warm gazelle]

cope harder

[eager trout]

No idea

[patent lichen]

im slightly concerned that there are hive and pyramid buildings inside the city

also that turret looks different to the cabal ones weve seen

[fast tapir]

yeah it has a vanguard symbol on it

seems to be ours

[patent lichen]

zavala finally pleasured caital enough for her to give us turret blueprints

[fast tapir]

🤨

[patent lichen]

im not sorry

[fast tapir]

lmao

i cant wait to see this in game

those ships better be there 😭

would look so cool

[patent lichen]

i cant wait to finally be in the city doing stuff that isnt on a shitty pvp map

[fast tapir]

yep

we havent had that in a long time

[dusty jolt]

They should bring taniks back but as a guardian

[fast tapir]

[warm gazelle]

true

[eager trout]

When you think about it, they could bring any real life person into the game as a Guardian.

[warm gazelle]

yeah missed marketing opportunity

go full Call of Duty and get like, Taylor Swift in the game as a guardian

[dusty jolt]

I hope not, fortnite and call of duty but did that and look how they turned out lol

[warm gazelle]

fortnite is not a game, it's a social experiment to determine how many IPs and cultural touchpoints you can place into a single piece of media

[dusty jolt]

Lot of big smart words

Please dumb it down for me

[warm gazelle]

when call of duty was at its height in popularity and critical acclaim they were doing the same stuff

Jimmy Kimmel and Kobe Bryant were in commercials for Call of Duty Black Ops

[dusty jolt]

Ah ok

[next bobcat]

traveler < pyramid

[little gorge]

i read this as pressured at first and honestly i want to go back to that

[exotic cloak]

I agree

[dusty jolt]

Understandable

[chrome fog]

I think it’s be funny, plus he gets to keep his title of “most times uniquely revived”

[chrome fog]

…. They did exactly this, like, Nathan Fillion at the time was big from Firefly, and there were a couple of other names that voiced important characters

Lance Riddick was also an insane pull considering he’s a guy from the Wire, critically acclaimed deconstruction of the US police system

And also Fortnite has lore to back all its insanity, like a crazy amount

[warm gazelle]

No we're talking about literally the people as Guardians. Their likeness and everything.

I know they've hired famous VAs.

[chrome fog]

That’s boring

[warm gazelle]

Well yeah

[chrome fog]

Not to mention they’d lack the cultural context behind their fame

[warm gazelle]

None of those decisions are ever made with the intent of making the game better lol

You think when Activision-Blizzard brought in Nicki Minaj to voice herself in CoD they were thinking "Man, the critical acclaim we'll get from this"?

[chrome fog]

Publicity, it’s very easy publicity, they’re targeting success differently from how you picture it; as to how it genuinely impacts the game i believe the mechanics and consistent pushing for Vanguard or whatever their battle royale is has been doing more damage along with some tweaks or modifications which piss off the playerbase

Like yeah no shit it’s nonsensical, that’s the point

Anyways

[warm gazelle]

I know it's publicity, that's literally everything I've been saying lol

[shadow crypt]

Have we ever gone into the last city in the game?

[shadow warren]

Zero hour, scourge of the past, and i think the first red war mission

Well zero hour was just in the d1 tower

Don’t think we ventured into the city itself

[warm gazelle]

Bannerfall

[shadow warren]

Midtown

Oh and certain parts of an old solstice event

[warm gazelle]

Oh ig Bannerfall is a tower on the wall

Not in the city proper

[dim minnow]

ARE THE HIVE AND PYRAMIDS INVADING THE LAST CITY

[solar pawn]

throw savathûn into a pit

with snakes

[fast tapir]

the threat of this is crazy

is it xivus hive?

i hope it is

[warm gazelle]

What took them so long tbh

[fast tapir]

they ran out of gas

[warm gazelle]

They were recovering from the mother of all hangovers

Calus threw a party and someone spiked the punch with absinthe

[dim minnow]

the Witness must really be panicking then

[fast tapir]

im really hoping we can see the ships in the sky in game

[dim minnow]

"SHIT, they're almost here, better send my lackeys to attack their city. That will keep them busy for sure."

[fast tapir]

lmao

exactly

[exotic cloak]

I mean

Wasn't implied that Witness has no fucking idea of what's happening

Like, he is just chillin inside the traveler

And a thing

What bro doing that they took one fucking year

Inside the one who travels

Like I actually know but damn one year to enter and guy didn't restarted the universe

[fast tapir]

he has had plenty of time

maybe he got a little cocky

[gentle geyser]

Hes still trying to flirt with the traveler

[slim elk]

Best case is the Traveler had its own forces "internally" to try and delay the Witness

[chrome fog]

So y’know how the Distributary, the Awoken’s home dimension created by a clash of Light and Darkness, had millennia pass while much less time had progressed in the main universe? It’s theorized that the same situation’s happening now; slower time in the portal than out here

[trim grotto]

I don't theorise that
It'd make no sense as a destination unless it suddenly got turned off

[jagged badge]

Yeah

In another story/game, that’d be a potentially harrowing twist. We stop the Witness, leave the portal and an undisclosed amount of time has passed for the people we left behind

But it just doesn’t work with Destiny as a game

[shadow crypt]

Where is the Black Garden exactly located?

[ember storm]

outside of normal space and time

although due to some hijinks we managed to make it bleed into normal reality onto the surface of mars, only for a short time

[trim grotto]

It isn't exactly on the map

[ember storm]

it has since been closed off again

[shadow crypt]

Yea ik that

[ember storm]

we can only access it through direct vex portals

[shadow crypt]

Like is it located in a celestial place or something

[shadow crypt]

Ohh

[trim grotto]

As far as we know, it is its own dimensional layer, like the Ascendant Plane.

[ember storm]

the vex just closed it off from the rest of the universe

it doesn't really matter "where" it is

just where it isn't

[shadow crypt]

And what’s the origin of it?

The Black Heart?

[trim grotto]

Well that's a fun question because it depends on a few things

IF
big if
IF you use Unveiling as an origin story

[ember storm]

the short answer is we don't know

the garden is just there

[jagged badge]

That is a big if 😮

[ember storm]

but the black heart specifically is the vex's shoddy attempt to replicate the veil

[shadow crypt]

What does Unveiling say about its origin?

I’m curious

[ember storm]

it has none of the special properties

[jagged badge]

It’s bold and everything

[ember storm]

it was just vaguely linked to the traveler and weakening it a bit

and the sol divisive just used it as a darkness reservoir

[trim grotto]

If we use Unveiling as an origin, then it is the manifestation of The Garden of Unveiling, the place before places. The giant stump in the middle is that of a Tree of Silver Wings... the Tree of Silver Wings.

However

Unveiling is not objective fact nor is it credible

And without Unveiling, we cannot determine the true nature of the Black Garden just yet

[dim minnow]

I'm just saying, a lot of stuff lines up

[shadow crypt]

Is Unveiling like the Witness’s beliefs or something?

[trim grotto]

But we do know that the Vex have influenced it as much as it has influenced them

[trim grotto]

Sort of

If you use Unveiling as a metaphore, like it says to, then the Witness represents the stance of a Winnower.

That doesn't mean it is in the most literal sense, The Winnower as a character

[ember storm]

why did you spell it like that

[trim grotto]

But it embodies that concept

[trim grotto]

Habit
A lot of words like that use an e on the end

[dim minnow]

given that one entry from Inspiral and the Witness origins, the Witness itself seems to line up more with the Flowers taking up the knife

[ember storm]

teach your garden how to use armaments

[jagged badge]

Habite

[dim minnow]

like the Stump of Silver Wings in GoS

and a lot of Vex stuff

like Clarity's effect on Vex

[jagged badge]

Maelstronnare

[dim minnow]

Mael||man||

[trim grotto]

The Black Heart, however, is functionally irrelevant
It was added later, a "seed" provided by the Witness and grown by the Sol Divisive

[jagged badge]

Femaelwoman

[ember storm]

malt

[shadow crypt]

Ah ok

Sorry getting back to this late

[chrome fog]

I’m a proponent for it being as close to an approximation to what the Vex remember The Garden as, seeing as it doesn’t seem possible for the Garden, a place which insinuates to to be filled with Paracausality, accessible to the Vex who are incapable of comprehending Paracausality

[rich smelt]

what is the lore implications for Zavala, and the watcher, both being bald

[jagged badge]

[rich smelt]

how many people have slapped the Witness/Zavala in the head?

[jagged badge]

I assume you mean the Witness

[rich smelt]

potato, anti tank rifle. whats the difference?

also yeah

[trim grotto]

the hell is the Watcher

is that the weird Marvel thing

[rich smelt]

yes.

[warm gazelle]

You have to be bald in order to lead the vanguard

[rich smelt]

witness is gonna dethrone zavala?!

[warm gazelle]

actually the witness is going to take the hunter vanguard spot

[thorn plover]

Bro so the next mat pat

[rich smelt]

Matty patty doesn't even know the lore for GTA 5. He would probably conclude that the witness will become Cornell

[chrome fog]

Anyways

Lore

(Mat pat’s theory was fine, it’s just that his theory was 1) made fairly early into the Destiny narrative at a time where we didn’t have as many established lore curators to, be there were enough to dispute his Evil Traveler theory; 2) his theory was something that was intended by the narrative, as the narrative developed reasons to doubt the Traveler, only for it to reaffirm why we fight for her and her beliefs. Unveiling very explicitly conveys these same doubts and so does the Witness’ backstory, to which the Traveler and the overall narrative of Destiny responds with unwavering faith and hope for the better, against the pessimistic nihilism reality tends to draw us towards)

[ember storm]

it was made post-taken king

half of it is disputed in the basic campaign missions

[chrome fog]

/shurg

Wait fuck

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Get surface level lore nerds to search deeper to verify his perspective, get them into the same pool as the actual lore people for them to teach the correct messaging; it was his only theory for Destiny and what with a majority of his work focusing on FNAF I doubt he was as avid a Destiny player, but at the very least it should’ve induced some critical think in smarter fans

At least he backed off instead of continuing to chase his own theories like Byf did once he started surging in prominence

[warm gazelle]

never watched mat pat

all i ever hear from people is how his theories make no sense, but people watch him anyway

[chrome fog]

I think they’re fine

[ember storm]

I just think it’s funny that was the only video and given the reception, he still had the Traveler in a huge part of the intro for years

[chrome fog]

He just made a huge focus of his theories FNAF lore, got deep in those trenches, and then had to delegate lore for other subjects to others, which is fine

At the very least he gives a stepping stone for people to start off from in order to get into theorizing themselves, and he’s fairly open to criticisms of his theories

I mean he says it every end of the episode, it’s just a theory

[rich smelt]

its like watching a mad man ramble, its entertaining to watch

somehow connected evolution, black holes, and God, to the fnaf lore

[ember storm]

I mean

Scott is a pretty vocal Christian

hell is a specific plot point

anyway

there is a nonzero % chance that Clovis Bray was a fan of Garfield

[chrome fog]

You clearly have not seen me go on about Us vs the Witness being allegorical to fighting against pessimistic nihilism in our own lives through the active decision to maintain faith in each other to do better and help one another

And also I like the "Ultimate Custom Night is purgatory for William Afton" theory, it's very narratively satisfying

[ember storm]

the worst nightmare of a narcissist is having multiple versions of yourself constantly beating you whilst you’re faced with your worst creations

[chrome fog]

Yes it's extremely hilarious

Also holy crap 2-for-0 Lois, two father figures seeking out immortality through merging the human mind with machinery they exploit to achieve it, yet not finding the results they exactly wanted

[ember storm]

at least willy tried pretending

actually no

neither ever cared

[chrome fog]

He was kinda but the way it wilted away for just outright immortality is telling of his character; the inciting event was the deaths of his son and daughter, but like before that he was very much the exploitative entrepreneur type

[vital lodge]

what even is glimmer

[blazing wasp]

Programmable matter

[vital lodge]

and its the humans currency?

[blazing wasp]

Yea

It's technically a bartering system

[vital lodge]

how does it remain stable when we seem to be able to get infinite ammounts of it

[blazing wasp]

Dunno

Tbf I believe we're rather rich with 500k

And actual prices for stuff aren't as absurd as they can be ingame

Cayde once bet 15 glimmer with us about something, which makes me assume their value is around the area of the dollar

And people talk about double digits glimmer as if it's worth something at all

If so, we're really rich.

[warm gazelle]

I would guess glimmer means a lot more to guardians than the average City citizen.

We know the City has more than one currency.

[blazing wasp]

I'd wager the opposite

[warm gazelle]

Guardians probably need a lot more glimmer by nature of their job.

[blazing wasp]

Glimmer isn't just good for currency

Guardians just need glimmer mostly to trade and use as fuel

programmable matter is pretty damn nice for your typical construction worker for example

[warm gazelle]

I've spent hundreds of thousands of Glimmer in the short two weeks I've played this game. I doubt your average City citizen is doing that.

[blazing wasp]

They're not useful to us in the same sense

They're just money

They're not essential to function

[warm gazelle]

We still spend more of it though.

That's all that really matters.

[blazing wasp]

Because shits so fucking expensive

Most of it being unnecessary stuff

Save for upgrades

[warm gazelle]

3000 glimmer just to buy a random bounty.

[blazing wasp]

But I find it hard to believe its not a gameplay thing that a masterwork is that costly

[blazing wasp]

1: not even remotely essential
2: dubious presence outside of pure gameplay

[warm gazelle]

So what if it's not essential?

[blazing wasp]

Ingame it makes sense for a bounty to cost money

[blazing wasp]

Because its not important

It's not needed

For the typical citizen I imagine this is very different

[warm gazelle]

what fantasy world do you live in where people only spend on things that are essential to their immediate survival

[blazing wasp]

That's... not what I'm arguing

The argument is regarding to the topic we were discussing

If glimmer is more important to guardians or citizens

The glimmer expenses of a guardian ingame and in lore could probably vary heavily

For numerous reasons

Not to mention given ceirtan lore tabs, like monte Carlos, it's probable we are unusually wealthy

[warm gazelle]

We don't really know what other currencies the City has. Only that it has multiple. I find it very likely Guardians need more glimmer though.

[blazing wasp]

Why, the prices are likely to be gameplay only for obvious reasons already discussed

Ok well

You did specify need more

We don't really "need" any glimmer at all, but

Purely ingame, "the" protag guardian uses a fuckton of glimmer

And will continue to do so

[warm gazelle]

Whether or not the prices in-game are reflective of actual lore pricing is speculative.

[blazing wasp]

Yea

[warm gazelle]

You can just assume they aren't but that doesn't make it true.

[blazing wasp]

I know

Hence why I am questioning it

I could be wrong of course

But

Bounties costing money makes zero goddamn sense.

Bounties in the first place make zero sense some places

"Can you do me a favor? Do what you're already doing but in a specific way for presumably no reason, oh and buy the favor from me"

Some bounties do make sense of course

Weapon calibration

Gambit bounties are almost entirely absurd

[warm gazelle]

That being said, guns are generally expensive. It's not a hobby for people who like having money. Real life guns and Destiny firearms are not the same things I know but if there's any similarity between them then chances are they're still expensive as fuck in the world of Destiny as well.

[blazing wasp]

Though true the amount needed to just masterwork a gun is

Wait

It's cheaper to make a gun with glimmer

Than to masterwork it

that makes no sense, the masterwork could not possibly require more materials than the gun itself

[warm gazelle]

Honestly if masterworking can be considered "gucci-ing up" a gun that aligns with reality in the sense that making them fancier can get exponentially more expensive.

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/glimmer

This actually answers that, as well as explains the material

[blazing wasp]

Ah

The man of the hour

[trim grotto]

Hello

[blazing wasp]

Mael, help me understand something

Do you think bounties are canon, and if so their prices too

[trim grotto]

Bounties themselves are, the prices have no reason to be under most circumstances.

[blazing wasp]

I'm highly questionable about how expensive stuff is ingame vs lore given how valuable glimmer seems given dialogue and public events (specifically the edz one with the drill)

"That's a lot of glimmer!" (Literally pocket change)

[trim grotto]

There are many threats beyond the City's walls. To help track and eliminate these dangers, the Vanguard has initiated a bounty system to reward Guardians who take the fight to the City's enemies. Lord Shaxx, not to be outdone, lays out his own bounties for performance in the Crucible.

[warm gazelle]

Like, there are AR-15s that can go for less than $800. There are also AR-15s where just the upper receiver is $1900. At their core, an AR-15 is an AR-15 but the fancier you get with one, they get dramatically more costly.

[blazing wasp]

Ok but this assumes that the glimmer cost is money cost

We don't actually know if the glimmer we use to pay for upgrades is payment

Or materials

[trim grotto]

- Amanda Holliday, Shipwright```
```As we push against the falling Darkness, the Vanguard, Crucible, and other allies in the Tower and beyond, will continue to pry into lost legends and mounting threats, calling on Guardians with rewards to meet these dangers head on.```
Guardians are loot goblins. Bounties motivate us via payment and targeted actions.

[blazing wasp]

This makes sense, drifters probably just a "to get people excited for gambit" reqson

Maybe the prices are so expensive, intentionally so

Because we earn such a ungodly amount of glimmer

[trim grotto]

Glimmer was harder to get back in D1, so there's that
But yes, it would help keep the economy going

[warm gazelle]

I'd guess it's both, my guy banshee gotta make a living somehow

[blazing wasp]

Banshee is like the gunsmith, ain't no way the fucker isn't rich

[chrome fog]

Barter system immigrated alien races have adopted due to the universal utility of programmable matter

Yipper

[trim grotto]

Anywho I'm off to go work on the house some more
Throwing out trash mostly
It's amazing how much garbage you make when building or renovating

Also yeah Banshee-44 is the Tower Gunsmith
Even the Weapon Foundries have unique deals and trade specifically with Banshee-44

Big name

[blazing wasp]

A one man monopoly

[chrome fog]

Aw man now I'm thinking about how he might have locked himself out of his online banking account because he forgot the password

[blazing wasp]

Banshee likely has people helping him with these things

He's undoubtedly incredibly useful, no way people aren't assigned to help him

He's practically a legend

[chrome fog]

I don't doubt he has competitors who do similar services around the City, but he certainly got the leg up being set up in the midst of the Guardians' gathering space, which just makes him more legendary to anyone else

[blazing wasp]

He makes a catalyst for a lot of your exotic weapons, even if their function is brand new to him

Within a very short time needing mostly data from the user

The stasis sidearm was like the first stasis gun he got a look at

"Me no likey, shoot a thing and I'll make it better"

Sci fi? Magic? Both? He don't care

If it fucks with spacetime or is just really, really hot

[warm gazelle]

well yeah there are a bunch. Hakke, Omolon, SUROS, Nadir, MIDA, etc

they're all gone now but the old factions new monarchy, future war cult, and co all had their own gunsmiths too

[next bobcat]

Correct me if I’m wrong but all the weapons not made by one of those foundries is either a refit of a foundry weapon, golden age/dark age tech, or weird magic stuff.

[chrome fog]

Those would be foundaries; Banshee more-so performs aftermarket care and modification and repair; he has a few original works such as Brass Tacks, a sidearm he made for Cayde, but otherwise he’s not a whole foundary

[trim grotto]

Thr only foundry I'd put on a similar level would be Crux/Lomar

[next bobcat]

They exclusively make exotic rockets

[devout nimbus]

Are all of the materials mentioned in lore somwhere?

I know glimmer is but what about legendary shards and ascendant shards/alloys

[ember storm]

almost none

[chrome fog]

I presume them to be more advanced forms of glimmer, thus the reason why they are necessary for higher level equipment upgrades and crafting; but that’s mostly my interpretation, we have zero actual insight as to what they are

[ember storm]

imo, not everything needs a lore explanation

stuff can just be video game stuff

like champions

[trim grotto]

Those ones, no. Old D1 era ones like Relic Iron and Spinfoil and Sapphire Wire, yes.

[gentle pendant]

Anyone know when the next grimoire is coming out

[next bobcat]

no

[low vector]

which house is this?

[dim minnow]

I don't think that symbol in particular is related to a House

but the color of the banner is purple, and given that this is from some D2 location, I can say that this is probably House of Dusk

[trim grotto]

The flag is of Dusk. The symbol however, is a generic Eliksni symbol. As far as I am aware, it has no known translation or meaning at this current time, though it is quite old and has been around for quite a while - longer than House Dusk, for example.

[devout nimbus]

Ah alr

[fresh zephyr]

wtf. 800$?, maybe like mp-15 .22 but those are bottom tier

these are 1500$-2500$ easily

[next bobcat]

+100 america

[warm gazelle]

yes

also the ruger AR-556

[warm gazelle]

The point was that even on the same platform of gun, costs can vary wildly

and the gucci-er you want, things can get expensive very very quickly

[fresh zephyr]

the in-game economy makes no sense altogether

you get what, not even 1k glimmer for dismantling an exotic

[warm gazelle]

i'm just grateful we don't have to pay for the optics on our guns in D2 lol

[trim grotto]

You generally don't dismantle Exotics, to be fair.

[fresh zephyr]

but extra bounties are 2k+ glimmer

i got lots of 60 stat exotic armor that would like a word with you

[warm gazelle]

as @blazing wasp pointed out earlier, having to pay for bounties at all is dumb and makes no sense

[trim grotto]

Yes, because Bungie reworked the Glimmer farming methods in response to the evolution of the in game economy, favouring patrol zones for farms.

The modern iterations of bounties aren't 1-1 with lore, there's a mild gameplay disconnect

[fresh zephyr]

yall remember this

[warm gazelle]

it's so easy to gets hundreds of thousands of glimmer anyway, even buying a bunch of extra bounties won't put a dent in your wallet

[fresh zephyr]

the taken king loot rage

[trim grotto]

No, because I didn't have a Playstation.

[fresh zephyr]

my only beef is our vendor engrams not carrying over

lmao

sorry

[warm gazelle]

all i remember about farming in D1 was the loot cave

[trim grotto]

To be honest I didn't even know Destiny existed until the ads took over when Forsaken was dropping

[warm gazelle]

but i hated pve in D1 so much that I never used it

[fresh zephyr]

i only knew about it because my boss at work kept roasting me

"too scared to play me in destiny"

"wtf is destiny"

so i got it to fuck him up

good ol' ps3 days

all things considered, w for bungie for giving the game support this long

[warm gazelle]

i gave up on D1 before taken king came out iirc

[fresh zephyr]

i only ever quit after curse of osiris

ive stopped for a month here and there

but ill go play new game, beat it. get back on destiny. thats why i take my time grinding

if i get the roll, cool. if i dont, eh fuck it

[warm gazelle]

i always play multiple games at once regardless, so progress is just slow in general

taking me forever to get past 1800 rn...

[fresh zephyr]

only other game i bought recently was diablo 4

[warm gazelle]

ah, the most hated game in history

[fresh zephyr]

the end game grind

also cyberpunk

kinda it

[exotic cloak]

No idea what this has to do with lore but

Cool I guess

[fresh zephyr]

yes sir, sorry sir

[peak coral]

cp lore is super fucking cool if you look at tabletops/novels n all

[chrome fog]

The game as well, the story itself was the only thing players did not complain about on initial release, it was gameplay bugs and repetitive side quests which bogged down the story

[warm gazelle]

also the police AI, the inability to shoot while driving (which they literally showed off in the promotional material for the game), the terrible clothing/equipment system

the shitty boxing matches that took 7 years to complete

[chrome fog]

regardless, the lore of the game was good

Just like the lore of this game is too

[low vector]

Oh ok thanks

[eager trout]

And at that point it probably would have been better to just release the lore as a book instead of the game.

[fresh zephyr]

grimoire cards audiobook narrated by eris

at least the hive ones

[jagged badge]

I can certainly try but I don’t think I have an interesting voice

Lore books narrated by Mael on the other hand-

[fresh zephyr]

nah memnoch

or lestat

mael = interview with a vampire or

[jagged badge]

Maelstronnar

The lore guy here

[fresh zephyr]

actually, narrated by xivu

[low vector]

in hell there is 24/7 grimiore audiobooks narrated by nimbus

kchow boom pew pew

[fresh zephyr]

Nimbus: And victory goes to... the trail-blazin', brow-raisin', Legion-beatin', Vex-defeatin', Neomuna's champ: THE GUARDIAN!

Shadow Legion, Shmadow Legion!

can i just kill this fucker

[chrome fog]

Man. Wait til you hear what’s on Netflix. And also what’s been available for a while and was already mentioned.

[fresh zephyr]

quick whats your favorite nimbus dialogue

i talk a lot of shit about nimbus but at least i actually got one

https://youtu.be/4AgWb7FzLxw?si=em6oa7VGsWbnAqgz&t=103

damn

even i felt that

[chrome fog]

I kinda like their explanation of the River of Souls but it has the same issue most of their dialogue has, where it feels like they don’t have an appropriate grasp on the situation. Some dialogue from the exotic mission for the void exotic lmg gets close, but again they don’t really let themselves feel broken up or upset about the fact their mentor is gone… which guess could be the point, they’re so wholly dedicated to solving situations bigger than their personal ones that they don’t allow themselves the time to really have any other tone that upbeat youngster

[next bobcat]

what bionicle's trying to say is: "i'm numbis idk what's going on and my mentor just sacrificed himslef but hey let's partaaaayyyy"

[chrome fog]

Soup don’t speak for me, I said that much more respectfully

I wish they did focus more on Nimbus’ feelings rather than having them just push narrative bits into place and exposition, but that’s neither here nor there

[low vector]

His outfit is awful too

[chrome fog]

But I’m not gonna rag on them just because of that, I’ll just let myself be disappointed for the moment and hope for better later on

[chrome fog]

*Their

[shadow crypt]

Nimbus didn’t even get a cookie

😭😭

[jagged badge]

Them

[jagged badge]

I’m still miffed about that tbh

[chrome fog]

ACK fuck

[jagged badge]

Fynch got a cookie and he can’t even physically eat smh

[low vector]

What cookie?

[chrome fog]

Dawning

[jagged badge]

Dawning event

[low vector]

Oh

[fast tapir]

didnt he say he was maybe going to wake up his lil fella and give it to him

[low vector]

Hive knight npc in the tower when

[fast tapir]

"Tell you what. bake any more of these and I'll wake up the big guy for a treat, assuming he can behave himself" ah close

[fresh zephyr]

quick call me a she

or her

[fast tapir]

maybe he does wake him up to feed him because he doesn't like our cooking :c

[fresh zephyr]

she @fresh zephyr

....

and nothing happens

incredible

[fast tapir]

what are you on about

[fresh zephyr]

dont worry about it

[jagged badge]

Anyway

[fresh zephyr]

the only thing that matters is you

so why would you let

other people dictate what you are

[jagged badge]

Just stop

[warm gazelle]

bro shut the hell up

[chrome fog]

Shhhh

[jagged badge]

I can tag Venetia if need be

[shadow crypt]

Citizen of Yappersville

[fresh zephyr]

at least im not condescending about it

[chrome fog]

Don’t entertain this debate again, it goes nowhere

[jagged badge]

Yeah I’m not

[chrome fog]

Learn proper respect and we’ll be less confrontational about it

[jagged badge]

In fact

[chrome fog]

I got it

[fiery copper]

Kinda messed up what we did to taniks in dsc

He finally had a house and a banner to kneel for, and we blew it up

[chrome fog]

Mmmm

[jagged badge]

I don’t think he cared about that tbh

He was still just a mercenary for hire

[fiery copper]

You're right
He was a killer, and very good what he did

[jagged badge]

And he had a personal vendetta against us

[chrome fog]

He was houseless in D1 for a reason, do we remember why?

Aside from what I can assume, as I don’t want to guess wrong

[warm gazelle]

bro's arms were ripped off by his kell

so he quit

[jagged badge]

According to a cursory look at Destinypedia, yeah, he was in a House, was docked by his Kell, and then he made prosthetic arms and killed said Kell

[chrome fog]

From what I’ve gleaned, Taniks was just That Guy for contract killing, like he had that dawg in him specifically for killing people, so no one wanted anything to officially do with him, only hiring him if necessary

Oh neat

[jagged badge]

And then didn’t kneel under any other House due to his own personal agency

I guess

[warm gazelle]

fair tbh

if i got my arms ripped off i wouldn't want to be going somewhere it could happen again

[low vector]

damn thats pretty sick ngl

[ember storm]

he wasn’t even hired

we don’t even know if he’s had proper brain function since dark below

[exotic cloak]

I really need to replay Lightfall on english damn

In Spanish the voice actor really does a job to make Nimbus conflict feel real

I guess that's the same reason why I just the jokes of the merchant and not the in-campaing jokes like half of the players

[exotic cloak]

Cookie dialogues are pretty normal but Xur and Fynch are so wholesome

They really appreciate their cookies

[fast tapir]

yeah

i feel happy xur gets something other than our hard earned money

[exotic cloak]

That money is probably going to the Nine

But the cookie is just for our fella

[fast tapir]

what are they funding

[exotic cloak]

More shit rolls

[fast tapir]

[eager trout]

Yeah, I know about the series. But I mean it should have been just the book, at least until the game was polished.

[gentle pendant]

Hello lore chat tell me a lore fact

[jagged badge]

Drifter once called Calus “big daddy Calus”

[gentle pendant]

[empty fern]

He did?

Wasn’t that just oryx?

[fast tapir]

oryx the nightmare daddy

nah but drifter did call calus that

[fast tapir]

i love this lil play so much 😭

[ember storm]

Shaxx used to regularly beat starving beggars to death

[exotic cloak]

Drifter ghost can't talk so it does silly sounds and movements to communicate

[jagged badge]

It

From what I can see on Ishtar, Drifter’s Ghost hasn’t been gendered, and is just referred to as “it”

[exotic cloak]

Oh

[hybrid frigate]

wtf happend to the soccer pitch at the farm

[trim grotto]

Got bombed out by the Shadow Legion, it seems.

[hybrid frigate]

now im pissed

[empty fern]

A bit late

[chrome fog]

Me rn

[exotic cloak]

Sorry for my ignorance but what the hell is copium

I see everyone say it but I still don't understand shit

[ember storm]

when you are coping

you are having the copium

[fast tapir]

that seems about right

[low vector]

Are exos basically just human consciousness put inside a robot body? If that's the case would an eliksni exo be possible?

[dim minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/riddler-paul-dano-new-rockstars-thumbnail-does-he-know-he-doesnt-know-gif-27552850

to answer the first question, yes

but specifically, a scan is taken of someone and said brain scan is what is implanted into the Exo body

the scanning process does kill the original body however

due to radiation

[full zephyr]

This is why Clovis is the kindest person ever

[low vector]

I missed the Clovis bray season so idk whats going on lol

[dim minnow]

did you play Beyond Light?

[low vector]

I remember some lore piece of someone who went through the process but their original body woke up too

[dim minnow]

don't recall that, do you have an entry?

[low vector]

Yeah but only the main part. I only remember like the eramis stuff, pyramid/stasis, etc

[low vector]

Nah I'll try to find it

[dim minnow]

so you haven't done the Deep Stone Crypt raid either I take it

[low vector]

I haven't done any raids or dungeons yet I was just trying to get through lightfall and do seasonal stuff

[dim minnow]

hmmm ok

well to answer your second question then

yes, it is possible, and it actually has been done

the first boss of the Deep Stone Crypt raid is Atraks who is the first (and only so far) Fallen Exo

[low vector]

Oh cool

Interesting that there's an actual robotic fallen body, I was wondering if they would be in the same "humanoid" as most other exos

[dim minnow]

well, the exo body has to be as human (or in this case, Eliksni) as possible

you see, when becoming an exo, one can suffer from DER which is a series of cognitive disorders usually ending in a violent death via literally ripping yourself to pieces (like what happened with Ana's father which she saw happen when she was 11 or so)

funny thing too was that Ana was actually intrigued by it

really goes to show that pre-guardian Ana was influenced by her grandfather, but despite that she still turned out relatively good

anyways

[low vector]

Damn I kinda wanna finish up Europa now

[dim minnow]

DER is primarily caused due to the exo body being rejected by the human mind

because the Exo body doesn't feel like a human one

so, in order to prevent DER, Clovis Bray gave Exos "humanisms"

essentially human needs so they feel more like human bodies

these needs include the need to eat, drink, reproduce, sleep, etc.

then there are reboots where the exo mind is essentially reset causing memory loss

Clovis primarily intended it as a means to make exos stop asking him repetitive questions and also to keep them in line (and not reveal sensitive info)

though he found that the effect it has on their memories helped greatly in preventing DER

[chrome fog]

Hmmm. Aside from the uh, peeling off of faces that Atraks did (at least I think that was how the exotic hunt mask with Blink was described to me), I wonder if Eliksni would have more “give” with the accuracy of their Exo bodies - should they ever need to undergo the process - considering their culture as it is currently is fairly game to body modification and prosthetics

[dim minnow]

eh

I'd doubt it

[exotic cloak]

Yes, yes and there was one

My girl Atraks

[dim minnow]

you know I already said that right

[exotic cloak]

Yeah I just noticed

I'm slow

[fast tapir]

its okay!

buuut

🐌

[pure tree]

do eliksni exos suffer from DER?

or, well, did Atraks suffer from DER?

[jagged badge]

Yes

[trim grotto]

Excellent question
Allow me to enthrall you with horrific truth

[jagged badge]

It’s a doozy

[pure tree]

are u talking about mask of bakris?

[jagged badge]

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/mask-of-bakris

This entry has Bakris speaking to Atraks

[trim grotto]

Indeedy

[pure tree]

wait, is that atraks cutting off her old face to wear as a reminder of who she was, or to completely disassociate from the flesh Atraks?

[ember storm]

Bakris had Atraks convinced her old corpse was an imposter to stave off the DER

the process of which included skinning the face

[pure tree]

ah

[trim grotto]

The latter

[ember storm]

the mask is fashioned out of Atraks’ skull

so

[jagged badge]

For others to wear to convince her that it’s just a “mask” and doesn’t represent her

[trim grotto]

Bakris turned into a mask because Bakris is creepy

[ember storm]

free souvenir

we literally just take it ourselves so we don’t really have a podium to stand on

[pure tree]

wait, can Atraks not be risen as scorn since she was turned into an exo?

[trim grotto]

Lord Gheleon the Fallen over here

[ember storm]

it’s not like ahamkara bones where the bones literally talk to you and want you to use their power

[pure tree]

or can the witness/fikrul still raise the body as scorn?

[trim grotto]

I suppose her body could be. Not the Exo, of course.

[ember storm]

we literally just killed someone and then on a separate occasion stole and wore her skull

[trim grotto]

Waltz channeling Gheleon
Secret Hunter main

[ember storm]

who

[jagged badge]

Gheleon

[trim grotto]

Iron Lord Gheleon
Liked bones a bit too much

[ember storm]

well now that you’ve repeated it I have osmosed all relevant information on the subject

[pure tree]

also, Atraks was the youngest of the dark council right? was she also the only sol born of them?

[ember storm]

pretty sure they all were except for Eramis and the priestess

[pure tree]

ah

[ember storm]

also maybe Bakris but there’s literally zero lore on them

they don’t even have a unique model

[jagged badge]

Her

[ember storm]

she doesn’t even have a unique model

yknow, like a loser

[pure tree]

wait, bakris is on the dark council too?

[ember storm]

offhandedly

not in any cutscene

[pure tree]

damn, at least the others were killed on empire hunt missions, dumbass got killed in a lost sector

[ember storm]

dies in the not-story patrol quest when we visit the cosmodrome

[pure tree]

also whats with most of the dark council being female? was eramis trying to build a harem or smth lol

[ember storm]

I doubt it was ever meant to be relevant

[pure tree]

yeah probs

still funny to think about

[jagged badge]

[ember storm]

anyway

you want to know something I realized

[jagged badge]

Weird thing to say

[ember storm]

something incredibly important to the Destiny universe

[trim grotto]

There wasn't any gender focus

[ember storm]

there is a non-zero chance, possibly even substantially high, that Clovis Bray was a diehard Garfield fan

[jagged badge]

[trim grotto]

[pure tree]

one last thing for now, does the Reef have any ketches left or are the ones we see above the city all house light ketches?

[trim grotto]

You've asked two unrelated things in one question

I'm sure there are plenty of Ketches in the Reef, ambling around

[pure tree]

ah okay

[trim grotto]

And the ones in the City are, as far as we know, all House Light

I see no reason why they'd be otherwise
It'd be concerning if they weren't Light

[pure tree]

well, if they werent light or reef

[ember storm]

reef isn’t a faction

[trim grotto]

Do... you know what the Reef is?

[pure tree]

well, idk what to call the faction

[ember storm]

if you’re asking about awoken fleets, I’m sure they’ve got some left lying around

[pure tree]

awoken

nvm

[trim grotto]

Ooooh

[pure tree]

im a dumbass

[ember storm]

there’s probably just not much opportunity to use the fleet whatsoever nowadays

not much to do with it

[trim grotto]

The Reef is a portion of the asteroid belt of Sol

[pure tree]

was trying to figure out what the right name for them for ages

yeah

[ember storm]

I mean I don’t think anyone is going to let Petra be in control of air support anytime soon, regardless

[trim grotto]

What could possibly go wrong >_>

[pure tree]

like we know they captured a whole bunch of ships during the reef wars, but not how many

[ember storm]

the reef wars were ages ago

[pure tree]

so the fleet deployed at saturn could be the entirety of the captured ketches or just a portion

[ember storm]

we just know it’s not the whole fleet in general

[trim grotto]

House of Wolves were allied with Mara at the time of the Battle of Saturn

[pure tree]

wait, how much of the wolves rebelled and how many stayed loyal?

[trim grotto]

Pretty much the whole House rebelled after Mara's death
They did not respect Petra

I think
I might be thinking of Variks
I didn't sleep much last night

[pure tree]

i got the impression that by the time of the start of TTK, apart from Variks, none of the wolves were loyal to Mara

or in the Prison of Elders

[trim grotto]

Ah, yes, that's right
They rebelled prior to her death

[pure tree]

i remember the HoW campaign

as underwhelming as the DLC was, hunting the wolves throughout the campaigns and the bounties was really fun

[ember storm]

they should’ve just considered winning the war in the first place

[pure tree]

skolas was like 'nah i'd win'

[dim minnow]

funny to think about how House of Wolves was caused because Mara and the Nine wanted an excuse to watch us in action

so the Nine released Skolas and Mara invited the Guardians to the Reef in order to kill him

[ember storm]

Petra wondering how skolas “escaped” from the nine will always be funny to me

[dim minnow]

even funnier with Mara acting like she doesn't know either

[pure tree]

I always figured that Mara wasn't one to be blindsided to the wolves betrayal

That she let it happen

[calm granite]

wait Mara died ?

isn't she like ... alive rn ?

[trim grotto]

a couple of times

With Riven's aid, Queen Mara Sov did not only make the glittering halls of the Dreaming City... she also created Eleusinia, later known as... The Shattered Throne. The Throne World of Queen Mara Sov.

[calm granite]

oh yeah that's right I always forget she has a throne world as well

[trim grotto]

Oryx damaged it significantly, and the curse loop brings back Dul Incaru to infest it, but it is still functional. It's how Mara Sov returned after her death in the Battle of Saturn... after existing at the edge of existence in Oryx's Throne, to steal his power that we abandoned upon his death.
She crossed the existence-gnawing acidic breadth of the Ascendant Plane to return to her Throne.

She used it at least one other time after dying while destroying a Pyramid through unknown means upon Eris, the celestial body, alongside Eris, the lady.

Eris didn't die, to be clear. Of course.

[calm granite]

wait so oryx like invaded her throne world somehow ?

what's dul incaru even doing in there ? if it's her throne world she'd have complete control over it like Sav would right ?

I guess we and rhulk are intruders in those as well, but we're kinda ballers compared to the norm of hive and shit

[trim grotto]

She has passed through the desert. She has reached the far side of the chessboard. She is alive, or soon will be.

She opens the door and her joy dies on the threshold.

Her throne world is desecrated.

Not annihilated, as Oryx's was. The pillars and terraces and courtyards still retain their shape. But the roots have rotted, and the geometry festers.

She should have known she would not be the only one to plan for such eventualities.

Oryx's bootprints pucker like scars in the labyrinth that was once only her own.

She sits a while beneath Sjur's statue, then follows his tracks through the ruins of Eleusinia, back to the Dreaming City.```

[trim grotto]

A Throne World reflects the mind of the owner, and often what they value most becomes law. Secrets with Savathûn, the sword with Crota. But one cannot easily manipulate a Throne World to such an extent as to fight for you and eject intruders... particularly when one is as cracked and crumbled as the Shattered Throne.

Dûl Incaru is there to scour it for secrets, to prey on Mara should she return there weakened after death, to control Mara's resurrection, and to help wage war against the Dreaming City from the other side of this shadowy mirror.

We had hoped she was key to removing the Curse once upon a time, but no such luck.

[calm granite]

how did the throne get fucked up so much in the first place ? oryx just ... went in it ?

[trim grotto]

Pretty much. Could have been the Blind Well (which powers the gateway), could have been his mastery over the Ascendant Plane, or his knowledge he stole from the Taken Techeuns, or something else entirely. With Mara dead, there was nobody to protect it.

[pure tree]

wasnt it because the techeuns didnt know about maras plans about dying to steal secrets from oryx and so kept a way to the ascendant plane for her, which oryx used to take them and corrupt eleusinia?

[trim grotto]

They had "emergency selfgates". It is possible these connected to the Ascendant Plane somehow, but it is just as possible it simply connected directly the Dreaming City. If you'll excuse the use of Truth To Power, which is truth told as lies...

2. My best guess is that the Awoken Techeun aboard Queen Sov's flagship fled into the Dreaming City through a gate or portal, and the Dreadnaught's main weapon followed them down that link. Awoken message traffic indicates the Dreadnaught weapon is innately connected with Oryx's intellect and awareness. The instant He pierced the Dreaming City, He must have understood the value of the site and deployed His Taken to attack.```

Point is, that may not be the reason. Oryx could have figured it out when he killed Mara, perhaps.

[vital lodge]

who the heck is Carlos

tower grandma keeps mentioning him

[ember storm]

dead

I think

[jagged badge]

Husband, who has passed/was killed

[vital lodge]

ah

[empty fern]

Who is maria then

[ember storm]

the witness

[calm granite]

Carlos and Maria are supposedly her husband and child she lost

“To live is to experience loss,” Eva said. “My husband and child are dead. My friends, my neighbors, the children I watched over on our road to the City... all gone now. The festival celebrates their lives with both joy and sorrow.”
From the festival of the lost grim in TTK

[pure tree]

Geez

Granny needs a hug

[chrome fog]

She loves helping us make our fits
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/allstar-cloak

[gentle pendant]

CHAT

GET THE LORE

FROM THE CE

Byf says older than anything in destiny

I’m loosing my shit here

[chrome fog]

What do you mean

[empty fern]

Ce?

[chrome fog]

We have links to transcripts of the CEs (of which there are multiple) in the pins, and also what are you referring to regarding what Byf said, what did he say this time

Also we have multiple rengeral lore entries that are not even in the CEs which go into historical events which happened prior to the current events in Destiny

[jagged badge]

This is about the Final Shape CE lore

[empty fern]

Oh collectors edition

[jagged badge]

Combat Evolved

[empty fern]

[ember storm]

Celery Enchiladas

[chrome fog]

Also neat, has the CE materials for Final Shape released already?

[gentle pendant]

Do we have the lore yet?

[chrome fog]

What do you mean

[velvet flax]

Byf has tweeted about having it

The physical Collectors Edition

Which has a lore book and some notes from Eido iirc

[chrome fog]

Ok, neat. But that means that Collectors Editions are just now arriving at people's addresses, much less has there been any time to transcript the entire book or scan it

[velvet flax]

Or the lore book is Eido notes it was something like that

[chrome fog]

In other words

[chrome fog]

Simmer, we ain't got the CE yet

[gentle pendant]

Soon it will be in doc’s and be able to be read

[chrome fog]

Yeah in like the upcoming week not freakin tonight

[gentle pendant]

I WANT IT NOW NOW NOW

[chrome fog]

Should've preordered it then

It'll be shared with the greater community when it's available

Reddit is the most likely to release first, but then the link will be shared across platforms, which we'll ask Ven or someone else to add it to the list

But i geddit yeeee new lore

Cannot wait to hear more from Eido

[bronze stone]

this is only kinda lore related but probably people here know this.
i'm trying to do all the quests in shadowkeep and don't know where to find the Eris Morn Fireteam quests. i've finished Sai Mota, but how do i start the next one which would be Vell Tarlowe i think?
is it a weekly reset maybe?

oh nvm i think i figured it out ._.

[jagged badge]

Yeah I believe you won’t get the next one until weekly reset

[bronze stone]

yea i didn't do it this week but i see it's a weekly bounty "reward"

[dusty jolt]

So Osiris has copies of himself right?

What exactly are they

[ember storm]

vex tech or light stuff

Savathun makes light clones of herself too, so

either way he’s not really using them anymore

[dusty jolt]

I heard they're still in the infinite forest

You think they will become important for future game play