📚lore-discussion

[jagged badge]

Golden Gun doesn’t shoot gold, does it?

They are not literal names

[tawdry mauve]

does it though

[fresh zephyr]

Molten gold bullets

Maybe?

[tawdry mauve]

no

it doesnt

you shouldnt be taking names too litterally

[fresh zephyr]

I’m thinking about things sorry

[jagged badge]

It shoots Solar Light

[solid jasper]

it shoots big bullets that hurt things bad

or light things

it makes things hurty

[tawdry mauve]

dude

its been 6 hours

why are just now responding

[safe galleon]

stasis, if i'm not mistaken, functionally deals with the ability to exert complete control over matter on an atomic level, ex. bringing particles to full stop, but it manifests itself as something that looks like ice because the slower that particulate matter gets, the colder it becomes

which is why it's called stasis, and not ice

and why theyre called 'stasis crystals' and not anything referring to ice

ice in the proper sense is frozen water, and that wouldn't work when applied to stasis bc, well, it has nothing to do with water really

[outer dragon]

You are frozen water

[trim grotto]

Toto explained Stasis well enough. As for the Golden Gun, it usually comes in two forms.
These examples will be showcased by legendary Hunter Ana Bray. Either a weapon that already exists is supercharged by Solar Light...

18 Kelvins lines up with the leftmost repeater, chunking round after electrified round into the sparking turret. Her gun burns, super-heated, discharging arc-rounds with cores of solar Light. Metal drips molten from the turret’s fluxing frame. It rattles. A final round ruptures the magnetic barrel and splits the rotary breach, sending splinters of shrapnel across the room.```
```Jinju rushes to Ana's side. The Ghost deconstructs itself, orbital shell bits swirl around a core of coalescing Light. She fills the room like a brilliant star, overcharging her wayward Guardian.

Ana's crushed bones reforge. Light fills her eyes. Her grip, still holding against the seizing Exo's bladed thrust, liquefies its plated hand to scrap. A glorious crown of Solar flame erupts from her visor and she cracks her forehead into the Exo’s face. It reels, tufts of flame extinguish in the vacuum. Ana kicks away.

Solar might engulfs 18 Kelvins. Ana hammers off two rounds of celestial annihilation. They melt straight through the Exo, puncture the station plating, and scream through space for light years.

The Exo slumps, a molten heap.```
Or, the Golden Gun is forged from pure Solar in the palm of our hand, a construct of Light in its entirety, as also seen in-game.
```As more Cyclopses phase in around her, Ana slings Polaris Lance and thrusts her empty gun hand forward; Solar flame ignites in her palm, forged into a Golden Gun. The heat of her shots leaves a molten trench and pools of simmering Light that drip over the observation deck. Her Golden rounds combust the air and sear holes through the eye of each Cyclops aiming to topple the Spire from under beneath the fireteam.```

[fresh zephyr]

Damn that’s alota words

[trim grotto]

Ana gets into a few scrapes, and I figured some action would showcase the examples in a more enjoyable way.

Fun fact! She once faked her death to the entire Vanguard and City. What a scamp.

[chrome fog]

That’s how going into lore be, lotsa words

[chrome fog]

They can speak on smth from 6 hours ago if nothing else is happening, there’s no real rules other than keeping discussion lore based and being respectful, and even then that’s usually loosened within reason

[empty fern]

Cosmo underestimated how dead lore chat can be

[solid jasper]

because they were the most recent messages in this channel and i don't sit in the lore channel waiting patiently for a new message to be sent

[outer dragon]

Respectfully

[trim grotto]

No u

We are always lurking

[outer dragon]

You don't?

Lame-o

[trim grotto]

Lurkaholic

[outer dragon]

Im always lurkin

They call me the Lurk Master Supreme

[low gyro]

No that's @severe meadow

[outer dragon]

@severe meadow aint got nothing on me

I lurk in my sleep

[ember storm]

someday i want an indepth dismantling of matpat's game theory video on destiny

[chrome fog]

Well that's easy, we have to do so every time some new person goes "Trabler Ebil? I tink Witness haz right ideo"

[ember storm]

nah but that's the thing

i want it picked apart by information only available at the time

i know for a fact it's possible, it literally released after taken king, we had more than enough pieces to know better

mathias patthew just didn't somehow

[empty fern]

Matpat made a video on destiny during taken king?

[worldly edge]

Is it an old video?

[chrome fog]

Maybe it is hmmmm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5NbEjkkPlI

Oh lord only 4 entries used for this theory?

[chrome fog]

Also yes, search it up and it shows you it's from 8 years ago

[tawdry mauve]

In hindsight i should have established that i was not being serious and only joking

Because i do reply to very old messages all the time myself

[severe meadow]

I lurk in your dreams

[jade rampart]

Is there a picture of what jisu calerondo looks like

[severe meadow]

No

[gleaming pebble]

What constitutes a Lightbearer's final death?

[jagged badge]

Depends. Generally, if a Lightbearer dies and their Ghost is dead or dies after their death, then they can’t return, and such that is their final death

[gleaming pebble]

Killing their ghost and eating their light are two

[jagged badge]

However there are examples of Guardian’s dying a final death while their Ghosts live. Thorn’s funky magic, for example

And potentially Darkness zones, though they have kinda questionable placement in lore

[gleaming pebble]

Thorn's magic counts as hive magic eating their light

[jagged badge]

Yeah, it’ll one shot a Guardian permanently even if their Ghost lives

[gleaming pebble]

Like Crota's blades n shit in the Great Disaster

[jagged badge]

Which is why Jaren Ward is dead but Shin still hangs out with his Ghost

Additionally, I believe Zavala would have died a final death in Chosen just due to Targe being caged by that special tech

Even if Targe lived and was set free afterwards

Zavala would have died without the Light

[blazing wasp]

yea i dont think they'd create this elaborate plan where they did something like that in front of the fucking princess imperial expecting him to be revivable if they just broke the cage

probably didnt expect crow to be there

[ember storm]

I mean Crow wasn’t the issue there

it was the empress herself killing the assassin they didn’t anticipate

[wheat flower]

Don't all the weapons of sorrow 1 shot guardians?

[chrome fog]

When they can’t come back from it anymore

[chrome fog]

In reality only two or three weapons really fit the definition of Weapons of Sorrow: the og Thorn and Necrochasm, the former of which was restored to the original Rose hand canon and then transformed into Lumina

And like, idk if the Necrochasm was considered to one shot guardians

[wheat flower]

Aren't there 4 weapons if sorrow?

Touch of malice

Osteo

Thorn

And necro

[vapid nymph]

weapons of sorrow are defined as human weapons that have been corrupted by the hive in some way

ToM is kinda that but kinda not

thorn and osteo are definitely that

and necro who fuckin knows atp

[trim grotto]

The Weapons of Sorrow were believed to be nothing more than a myth. But even the darkest myths are born of some truths, and whispers of the Necrochasm have long filled the Light with dread.

[ember storm]

ultimately they honestly don’t get brought up too often so it’s not particularly important

ever since Shaw confirmed the nature of ghost deaths I really haven’t concerned myself with weapons of sorrow

if it eats light and perma kills guardians, it does that

you could kill a ghost a bunch of different ways

it is what it is

[empty fern]

Damn

Sorrow weapons got toland treatment

[outer dragon]

The fact that Toland had nothing to do with the season we supported the birth of a new Hive god is INSANE to me

[trim grotto]

Frankly he probably just wants to stay out of the way
This is above bi's pay grade

Thanks autocorrect

*his

[fiery copper]

As a bi, I can safely assure you this is indeed above my pay grade

[ember storm]

that or he understood that attempting any contact with the self-proclaimed god of vengeance probably wouldn’t have been a good idea since he’s basically responsible for the fireteam dying

if Eris could cut off complete throne world access to Xivu Arath herself, snuffing out Toland probably would’ve just been a finger snap in comparison

[dim minnow]

he wasn't responsible

Toland knew full well what would happen

it was more like him hopping on a sinking ship because he knew that eventually the ship would go deep enough to where he wanted to go

[ember storm]

and led the team down there just to use them as a means of getting up close to a deathsinger, yes?

they were counting on his expertise

[dim minnow]

it would not have been any different if he wasn't there

I'm pretty sure he did help out anyways

[ember storm]

he knew fully well these were the only people who cared about him and didn’t have a second thought about throwing their lives away

[dim minnow]

it's just that the bad stuff was not anything he could prevent

[ember storm]

I’m more so focused on the point that he knew fully well what was going to happen and just didn’t care

these were his friends

[dim minnow]

you say that as if he got them killed

[slim elk]

Eris Fireteam were effectively the cannon fodder to get deep enough into the Hellmouth and find a Deathsinger.
Wouldn't really call them "friends" in Toland's view

[dim minnow]

I see it as more like there was nothing he could do to save them

sure it was opportunistic, but again, the outcome would not have been any different if he was there

[ember storm]

yeah none of this is redeeming him in my eyes

[dim minnow]

Toland was well known to be a lunatic

[ember storm]

the venom in Eris’ voice when she reflects upon it and says “He must’ve known, and said nothing”

I really don’t think she’d appreciate a reunion either way

especially not mid Witch

[slim elk]

Nothing really to redeem there with Toland.
He would immediately sign up to be a Dark Guardian under the Witness if he ever had a chance

[ember storm]

the witness probably wouldn’t even give him a second thought

stasis was extended to all guardians, but it first made contact with us specifically

[slim elk]

Even his ghost was a lunatic and believed the same as Toland

[grizzled zinc]

So the witness’s origin’s cutscene, is it a retcon because savathun described the events as the witness (singular) instead of the witness (collective)?

Is it possible savathun’s refering to the entire race as the witness?

She does phrase things weirdly sometimes

[trim grotto]

Why would that be a retcon?

[grizzled zinc]

People called it a retcon

I disagree

[dim minnow]

even back in WQ, the Witness used "we"

and I think Savathun simply used "it" which is what everyone else was using

hell, the Witness used "we" before WQ

hmmm

looks like the blade we made the first glaive from used to be owned by an unamed disciple

[trim grotto]

Why do you say that?

[dim minnow]

Savathun said it herself

Savathûn: The children of the Witness wage a war. It spans centuries and galaxies. They see the fall of thousands of civilizations. The silencing of millions of thoughts. In the mind of one of these warriors lives the memory of an ancient weapon. A blade that cuts with the shining edge of beautiful, terrible logic. Through a game of riddles, I steal this memory for myself. I make the weapon mine. But I do not keep it... I use it as a lure.

also, I'm looking through the Altars of Reflection dialogue for the Witness origin ones

[trim grotto]

I'm not sure I follow your logic here.

[grizzled zinc]

“Children of the witness” is an odd way of putting it.

[trim grotto]

Nothing here suggests it wasn't Rhulk

[dim minnow]

Savathun also mentions that there are other Enclaves hidden where other Pyramids landed

[dim minnow]

I said unnamed disciple

[grizzled zinc]

Rhulk has lubrae’s ruin tho

[trim grotto]

Yes
And I don't follow your logic here

[grizzled zinc]

We do get the fragment of the enigma from a broken statue of rhulk, no?

[dim minnow]

logic as in how the Pyramid blade came from a Disciple?

[grizzled zinc]

How it’s from an unnamed disciple

[trim grotto]

All prior implications suggested Rhulk, and this does not imply otherwise

[grizzled zinc]

Could the enigma be a past version of lubrae’s ruin?

Cuz it’s a memory

[dim minnow]

wait, you're saying that the blade that we used to shape the Enigma is from Rhulk?

[dim minnow]

doubt it

Lubrae's Ruin is too distinct

[grizzled zinc]

Perhaps like rhulk, it too was changed when he became a disciple

You could be right

Idk

[dim minnow]

worth noting that the NEzarec's Whisper glaive resembles Enigma more

[grizzled zinc]

Rhulk likes glaives afaik

[grizzled zinc]

could be his

[dim minnow]

didn't he give that one to Nezarec too?

[trim grotto]

In the mind of one of these warriors lives the memory of an ancient weapon. A blade that cuts with the shining edge of beautiful, terrible logic. Through a game of riddles, I steal this memory for myself. I make the weapon mine.
Rhulk is an ancient warrior with a memory of a similarly ancient weapon type. Glaives.

[dim minnow]

hmmm

[trim grotto]

The same warrior she tricked and trapped in her own Throne

[grizzled zinc]

Nezzy’s super reviled pretty much everywhere

[dim minnow]

I never really said it couldn;t be Rhulk though

[grizzled zinc]

Ohh

[dim minnow]

I just said that whatever disciple Savathun got it from was never named

[grizzled zinc]

Just said we dunno

[dim minnow]

Rhulk isn't unlikely though

[grizzled zinc]

Savathun did swindle nezzy too

[dim minnow]

did she swipe the memory from him then?

[grizzled zinc]

Mayhaps

Savathun tricked all the known disciples, didn’t she?

Calus wasn’t a disciple at the time

[dim minnow]

she did do the Crown of Sorrow fuckery

[grizzled zinc]

Crown of sorrows was her trickery, wasn’t it?

Someone affirm i dunno

[dim minnow]

all Calus had to do was throw the Crown away, but even though he knew it was a trap, he still sprung it anyways

[dim minnow]

yeah, it was her doing

[grizzled zinc]

Calus isn’t the wisest of individuals

[dim minnow]

I wonder if Savathun's Altars of Reflection explanations on the Enclave have any truth to them

[grizzled zinc]

Whenever savathun says “this is the truth” i always say “shut up no it ain’t” then she says something we know is true

[dim minnow]

"Enclave is a time machine"
"Enclave is a record of every weapon in existence"
"Enclave is bait"
"Enclave is a stamp left behind by the first Pyramids to touch down on various destinations and there are more of them"

[grizzled zinc]

“Enclave is an art studio”

[dim minnow]

I hope we get an episode or some sort of story that expands upon the Mars Relic

[grizzled zinc]

I don’t believe it’s a record, the stamp and time machines ones sound plausable though.

[dim minnow]

well, there's nothing saying it can't be all of the above

[trim grotto]

Well, he didn't wear it himself, at least.

[grizzled zinc]

This is true

Make robot calus wear it dumbass

[trim grotto]

Not quite

He genetically bred a Cabal soldier from specific genes, designed with an extraordinary will, specifically to wear it

[dim minnow]

Robot Caluses were connected to Calus' mind

[trim grotto]

Ghalran

[dim minnow]

so a robot Claus wearing the Crown would likely have bad results

Gahlr

[grizzled zinc]

Robot claus

Calus is santa now

Ghalran can bladerush tho

Shouldna made him do that

Why’s he so big

What’s he prideful of

What does a nihilistic cabal look like? Since they grow more cuz of pride

[jagged badge]

They don’t

[trim grotto]

To expand on Eris's statement
We've never heard nor seen any supporting evidence of this statement except for that old comment by Mr. Fanfic Writer himself, Emperor Calus.
||Yes I know his Psions wrote it for him, but still||
Given the absurdity of this statement, particularly when followed up by perfectly legitimate and explained biological functions, there are many folk who think that... well, that he's full of hot air.

[grizzled zinc]

I mean why would he write that tbf, most of his soldiers are small guys comparitively speaking

Might be a lie though

[pure tree]

Other than belonging to the clovis exo/banshee who used it against the vex in their first invasion of eventide, and I assume being a fairly advanced sword, is there anything special about The Lament?

Like the mission where you forge the sword, at least from my perspective, Clovis makes a point that the vex either want it or it destroyed permanently

[trim grotto]

Other than that, and being beast of a weapon, no. It's just large and deadly.

[trim grotto]

Yes, they're a little more emotional than they appear. Take Saint's tomb, for example.

They feared that sword.

[pure tree]

So it was more of a personal grudge rather than like it had some unique power they wanted

Also with the dead exos we find on europa, did they die during the collapse after the gate was closed or died during the invasion and couldn't be rebooted/revived like some of the others?

[trim grotto]

The latter.

[chrome fog]

The soldiers of the Shadow Legion would fit the bill pretty well, and Calus would’ve fit the definition of Optimistic Nihilist when we first meet him, though obviously we’d get to know his schemes a little more and realize he’s just self serving and wants everything to be in service to himself (as obvious from the Chronicon)

[grizzled zinc]

i see

[chrome fog]

The Shadow Legion try to replicate Rites of Proving but with Calus’ new rules while under service, they don’t recognize why the act was so satisfying in the first place, they’ve lost the cultural connection and just do it because of a compulsion to continue it

[grizzled zinc]

yeah that's what that lost sector exists for

[empty fern]

Neat

[gleaming pebble]

is there a reason why Eris Morn is always holding that orb

[ember storm]

inside is an ahamkara bone

the one she used to escape the hellmouth (which also stole her eyes)

now she just uses it for general magic stuff

and also to make sure nobody else uses it

[jagged badge]

General Magic Stuff 🫡

[empty fern]

Wait

Did shaxx have that ahamkara bone back in d1?

When did the great hunts take place again?

[jagged badge]

Before the Great Disaster

At least

[gleaming pebble]

I think the great hunt took place just before destiny

[jagged badge]

Nope

[gleaming pebble]

ik it was before the iron lords got SIVA'd

because whats-her-face left to go be a pacifist after the hunt

[jagged badge]

Eris Morn partook in the Hunt, and she was lost in the Hellmouth for ages after her fireteam’s assassination attempt on Crota which was after the Great Disaster

[gleaming pebble]

the Great Disaster wasn't in Destiny?

[jagged badge]

No

[gleaming pebble]

huh

[fiery copper]

Which was also way before destiny

The iron temple had been sealed for A LOOOONG TIME before roi.

[fresh zephyr]

How do you get the iron lord name

[empty fern]

Be friends with Saladin or play a lot of iron banner

And win

But I guess real answer (based on roi) is to be a substantial part in their cause (suppressing siva)

[jagged badge]

Are you referring to the title?

If so, you can see the requirements for it on the Iron Lord seal in collections

[fresh zephyr]

Where's Saladin lmao

[fresh zephyr]

Ight ty

[jagged badge]

It’s not an Iron Banner week so he’s not here

[fresh zephyr]

Idk if I shld buy d1 cuz I have a ps4 and I used to have a 360 which didn't include the roi dlc

So idk if I shld get it

[empty fern]

That’s all up to you
Should you play d1 while missing rise of iron? Who knows

But you atleast have the other 4 right?

[fresh zephyr]

Ye I finished everything up to taken king

[empty fern]

Good enough

[empty fern]

You can watch a play through of rise of iron then

[fresh zephyr]

Bruh that's boring

@empty fern what do u play on

[empty fern]

(If you click my profile) it’s also PlayStation (4)

And my psn is up there

[chrome fog]

Playing all of Destiny 1 isn’t necessarily required, just if you want to it’s there

[ember storm]

and for the record, none of your progress from D1 will transfer to D2

getting D1 “veteran” status reflected in D2 loot and dialogue had a cutoff when it initially released

[orchid lance]

What was the very first thing that happened in the destiny timeline?

[rose star]

I got a question i almost finished shadowkeep but i still dont understand what is that pyramid

[paper gorge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvRIApyYlRM&ab_channel=MyelinGames

best i can do to help you

[trim grotto]

As in the games, or historically in the universe?

[orchid lance]

Both

[paper gorge]

the flower game ?

[orchid lance]

Idk what that is

[trim grotto]

The short version is that they're vessels of Darkness controlled by the Witness that are as old as the Witness itself.

[trim grotto]

I'm not going to mention that due to the questionable validity.

[paper gorge]

yeah ok

is it when the witnesse's race discovered the traveler?

[tawdry mauve]

imagine if humans go to travel through space and we do it by strapping rocket engines to the burj khalifa

this was always fucking hilarious to me ngl 💀

all this build up since the red war

for the worlds most unescessary origin story

[paper gorge]

are most of these pyramid ships empty ?

[trim grotto]

Deep, deep, billions of years ago, a civilisation discovered the Traveler.
https://youtu.be/Z0CKckjryVI?si=4kiQtG55lNeRb-kL
This is the oldest validated information we have, historically.
There is Unveiling, but that's a... sort of creation mythos.

[tawdry mauve]

yes

most of them are empty

i just dont know why they even bothered

with the origin story

[trim grotto]

You should watch this too, Tony

[rose star]

Oh ok thanks so it is a bad thing XD

[tawdry mauve]

considering it really didnt actually explain anything that we needed to know

[orchid lance]

Ok thanks

What's the first thing that happens the game timeline

[paper gorge]

how many disciples does the witness have ?

[trim grotto]

They are what caused the Collapse of Golden Age Humanity and countless other civilisations, all helmed by the Witness or their Disciples in some manner.
They're very, very bad.

[tawdry mauve]

for all we know this

[jagged badge]

Us waking up from being dead

[tawdry mauve]

think they mean chronologically

not from the start of the games

[trim grotto]

Back in D1? We're revived by our Ghost in the Cosmodrome.

[orchid lance]

Isn't the red war the original campaign of d2

[trim grotto]

that's exactly what they mean
we went over this question earlier

[rose star]

Aaaaah ok at least now i understand what i am trying to fight

[trim grotto]

For D2, yes

But not D1

[jagged badge]

Yes, but the character we play as is the same as the one from D1, canonically

Even if you started playing 2 days ago, you’re really meant to be the same Guardian from D1

[trim grotto]

Well, sort of.

There's intentional wiggle room there.

[jagged badge]

I mean, the way I see it, not exactly

There’s so many lore books and dialogue linking the player character currently to old feats regardless if you played then or not

Like Ana commenting on how anything sentient has the chance to become a gun around us in the Hierarchy lore

Osiris calling you the Young Wolf in that same season

[trim grotto]

Yes, the wiggle room has lessened lately

[paper gorge]

is the vex the first living being in the universe ?

[trim grotto]

Nothing apart from Unveiling suggests so.

[paper gorge]

ok thx

[chrome fog]

Da big bang, if we wanna be basic; Unveiling suggests that the Traveler in a more empowered form had a hand in creating the universe before the one Destiny takes place in as well as that universe itself, but as the lore book is sourced from the Witness we cannot validate that claim as truth, though her title in that book - The Gardener - is used elsewhere by more trustworthy sources (like Ahsa), though the Flower Games and everything related to them in Unveiling cannot be fully confirmed yet.

And then also the universe basically progresses about the same as it does in ours, save for space magic - Paracausality - being a part of reality; all of human history is essentially untouched until 2014

The “Flower Games” as described in Unveiling suggest that the Gardener and the Winnower - whomever that may be, maybe the Gardener talking to another aspect of herself or maybe the Witness’ self-insert of - raised and developed universes to their natural end to see which of their philosophies were vindicated by the end result; usually the Winnower’s philosophy that one must assert their right to existence proved true, with the Vex being a constant emergent victor of the universe, assimilating everything until the universe’s heat death. But the Gardener still wanted to believe that mortal species could band together and coexist in peace, to build each other up instead of tearing each other down for their individual successes.

Yadda Yadda, smth smth Gardener gets reduced to her Traveler form and is now mortal to an extent, the new “rules” (Paracausality) she suggested are added to the universe along with the old “rules” (physics), and the universe continues to its current state in-game

But again this could just be propaganda from the Witness, whilst it reflects the overall conflict between it and the Traveler that does not mean we should take the totality of Unveiling as truth

For argument’s sake of “Were the Vex the first beings in the universe?”, MK 44 Stand Asides suggest that the Worm Gods/Proto-worms and the Ahamkara originate from the Garden mentioned in Unveiling, as well as the Black Garden being the Vex’s recreation of their home using the Black Heart

It’s all entirely speculative as there’s nothing really concrete

[tawdry mauve]

right but how trustworthy is the unveiling as the origin story of the universe

[chrome fog]

Chronicon

[trim grotto]

Not very. But not worth dismissing entirely, either.

Even the Chronicon had actual historical events within it.

[tawdry mauve]

we talking about the real world chronicon here orrr

am i missing something major about destinys lore

[chrome fog]

What do you mean real world Chronicon

[tawdry mauve]

chronicon of Eusebius?

[chrome fog]

The lore book Calus had a scribe write up, that Chronicon

[tawdry mauve]

bruh 💀

[trim grotto]

The Chronicon was a "history" book about past, present, and future, written by his Psion Scribes.

[tawdry mauve]

ok i forgot it was called that

[trim grotto]

The "future" bit was literally just guessing/fanfic

[tawdry mauve]

its named appropriately

because the real world chronicon was also a basic summary of history of the world (at the time)

it also had writings of alternate future timelines or some shit

which is crazy for a book written in 300ad

[trim grotto]

yeah that sounds like a pretty direct comparison then yeah haha

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/opulent-stalker-cloak

here, read this

the "future" entries are all like this

this is, perhaps, my favourite of them all

[tawdry mauve]

the note really adds to this

[trim grotto]

i adore the note

"Beer of roots and nuggets of chicken."

"Very good. This is entirely credible."

peak comedy

[tawdry mauve]

im suprised how much knowledge they do lack about some of these things

like you would assume the psions would at the very least study human history

savathun knows what an omelette is

[chrome fog]

Oh Lorechat!

Whoops, message delayed because my plane landed

[tawdry mauve]

you were piloting a plane while typing in lore chat?

respect

[chrome fog]

Las Vegas baybay!

[dim minnow]

you're in Vegas now?

[chrome fog]

Oh related note, Mael do you remember what hints at the scribe for the Chronicon being Sav? I remember there was some sort of discussion about it being her like maybe during Beyond Light but I don’t have anything to cite for that

[dim minnow]

I know she left a note somewhere in there saying that the entries are her gift to us

[chrome fog]

For a week. And then I am apparently going across the Philippines islands every half week

[dim minnow]

in that case, I will be hunting you down for sport, you have one hour to prepare

[jagged badge]

😦

[chrome fog]

I accept the challenge, as I can practically disappear before you eyes

Always funny when that happens, someone’ll ask “Where’s [gestalt]?” And I have to act like I’m a tv show cameo, pop up behind them

[dim minnow]

so basically the canon reason as to why we no longer associated with Calus post Opulence was because Savathun gave us his shitty in-universe fanfiction

[trim grotto]

Gonna have tk get back fo you
I'm off to a conveyancer

[chrome fog]

Shit Dova I might not have an hour to prepare, it’s gonna be taken up waiting for us being able to board off the plane

[chrome fog]

Aight so

I will not be able to play Destiny all the way to January 13th, wuz th e story for this week

Have we gotten anything new for Dawning? And what new story did we get this past Tuesday?

[dim minnow]

no new cookies

seriously, they didn't even get one for Nimbus

not one for Mara either

[chrome fog]

Or Riven

[dim minnow]

wait, didn't she have one at some point?

[chrome fog]

Sadge

[dim minnow]

they didn't bring back Riven's either

Amanda's cookies are now burnt edge transits

burnt edge transits were what you got when messing up a cookie recipe (back when you had to manually insert each ingredient [now the oven does it for you lazy ass]) and you give it to Rahool

anyways

[dim minnow]

so we're back on track to getting Riven's Eggs

Crow and Mara have a heartfelt talk

Osiris doesn't think that we can get to the Pale Heart without Riven's help

I think Riven was accusing Mara of hiding the Eggs (or that was last week)

[chrome fog]

You can still do it manually, it’s just at the bottom (though I’m guessing what the “lazy ass” is for)

[dim minnow]

I don't think it lets you do it manually

it just lets you look at how many of each ingredient you have

[chrome fog]

Yeah, there’s another two at the bottom

[dim minnow]

yeah, but there needs to be three

[chrome fog]

The top two slots are for automatic baking and mastery slot

[dim minnow]

the bottom two only lets you look at the ingredients

if it was manual baking, there would be a third slot for essence of Dawning

[chrome fog]

No you just put the two and if you have enough dawning spirit it auto completes, because all of them use Dawning Spirit

[dim minnow]

hold on, lemme consult questions channel

[chrome fog]

I cri

[mighty ridge]

is this possible and or true?

[dim minnow]

Drifter is a lot smarter than he looks

even Osiris recognized this by having him do some final checks on the Sundial

so chances are someone like Drifter can figure out how to do that

[trim grotto]

Well, we don't know the output of the City power grid, and capturing Vex is an inherently tricky and dangerous task.
However... Vex Radiolarian Fluid, if properly contained, does have a variety of fantastic purposes. So it is plausible, at least.

[dim minnow]

though given what the Vex are capable of, it it would be pretty risky

also worth noting that Vex guns only work in Vex hands

so it might be difficult get power from Vex units

hell, capturing them is difficult too

[chrome fog]

He could also be bullshitting to see who’s dumb enough to bring a vex into the City, though yes if we were to mitigate the memetic nature of vex material it would prove very useful

[dim minnow]

I mean, the Vex in the PoE were only there voluntarily

I remember when Ikora had us build a Vex portal in the Tower

I also recall seeing a picture of someone standing by her and their character name was "thisisabadideaIkora" or something of the sort

[chrome fog]

Question. When was this?

[dim minnow]

Season of Undying

start of the Season Pass era

aka start of Y3 (Shadowkeep)

the first time Bungie brought back a Strike boss and made them a main threat

huh, you know I never really thought much about how the Undying Mind did it first

[trim grotto]

The Consistently Dying Mind

[dim minnow]

guess it's just because Undying was a weak season

[chrome fog]

A shame Undying had no cutscenes at all save for the intro

[dim minnow]

and also because back then seasons were only around for a season instead of the entire year

[sick yew]

They weren't as common back then

[dim minnow]

I really want the upcoming exotic quest to tie back to Undying

since the upcoming exotic mission is in the Black Garden

and we never really got an explanation for what the Vex were doing in Undying

all we know is that in the end of Shadowkeep, we get an artifact from the Lunar Pyramid and then this artifact leads us into the Blakc Garden

we then do GoS and reach a Veiled statue inside of the Stump of Silver Wings

then this pisses off the Sol Divisive which leads to them invading the Moon

these invasions being spearheaded by the Undying Mind who we stop by making a Vex gate that we attach to a Vex gate in the BG which forces out a copy of the Undying Mind

we then continuously draw out and destroy these copies until eventually there are no more and the real Undying Mind is gone

and that's it

we never got an explanation for it

what were the Sol Divisive planning in their invasion?

why did the GoS raid set then off?

was this intended by the Witness?

I really want the exotic quest to give us some actual explanations on this

[wary socket]

i got a question, why is ikora rey bald?

[trim grotto]

She isn't bald, she shaves.

that's a haircut

[wary socket]

buzz cut?

[trim grotto]

whatever you want to call it

[blazing wasp]

I recall people unironically thinking it's because she has cancer

[fiery copper]

That would suck ass

[blazing wasp]

Neglecting that
A: she's a goddamn guardian
B: the lifespan of the average person likely means cancer is cured or easily curable

[fiery copper]

Immortal space robot brings you back from the dead

Can't cure your cancer

Literally every other disease, gone

[blazing wasp]

They could absolutely just incinerate themselves and be rezed

Cancer can't live if the entire host is ash

[fiery copper]

Yeah but what if the rezzed copy has cancer

[blazing wasp]

Then don't get a cancer rezzed copy

We don't even know how rezzing works entirely but given shaxx we know a little bit

[fiery copper]

It's sorta like the healing potion problem. Regrowing back a massive number of cells at that rate is GOING to cause problems.

[blazing wasp]

Enough that it could cure cancer

Shaxx just incinerates himself to cure himself of anything like a broken voice from yelling

[fiery copper]

(Rezzing can 100% cure cancer, I'm just talking about how shitty it would be if it couldn't)

[blazing wasp]

And even then, let's assume that for some reason ghosts specifically exclude cancer

It's already been cured.

Or made insignificant in harm

Because you can't triple your lifespan with cancer in play or at least without prolonged a lot

So it's likely just not a thing anymore

Like today's black death

[chrome fog]

Just bring back a version that doesn’t have cancer easy peasy

[ebon summit]

Tryna write a c.ai bot on Lord shaxx and DAYUM

Bro was queen mara's booty call???

[ember storm]

nope

[trim grotto]

No.

If you're referring to the whole "The helmet stayed on." bit, they spoke about Mara Sov's missing/dead partner, Sjur Eido.

[ebon summit]

Ohhhh

K thank

[chrome fog]

Byf strikes again

[outer dragon]

If you think during the Golden Age they didn't discover the cure for cancer, you are crazy

[chrome fog]

Kinda true; though there are still some diseases which couldn’t be cured like Clovis’ genetic degenerative disease

[dim minnow]

technically Exos are the cure for it

[trim grotto]

You heard it here first from Dova, folks!
The real cure for illness is murdering your body with high intensity radiation and abandoning the weakness of your flesh!

[chrome fog]

Challenge mode: don’t separate my being from my fleshy catacomb I call a corporeal form, which would then lead into they discussion before

[devout nimbus]

Lmao

I can imagine that

[ember storm]

do you think some guardians practice snapping their own neck in order to reserve abilities

[trim grotto]

@wise thunder
Some time back, someone asked me for, paraphrased, "a text description of all lore ever."
I had three recommendations for them as a starting point.

Firstly: https://www.previouslyondestiny.com/
This website is Previously On Destiny. It covers the story from D1 up to Season of the Lost, directly prior to the launch of Witch Queen. It is well summarised, categorised into chapters, and notes important groups or people. However, it does not delve into the extended lore beyond the actual game.

Secondly: https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/wiki/lorecompendium/#wiki_history
This is the Destiny Lore lore compendium, largely curated by dobby_rams. It has general overviews and specific events of all parts of Destiny's history, both gameplay eras from D1 onwards and in-lore history dating billions of years in the past to Fundament and beyond. It is more complex than Previously On Destiny, but more thorough.

Thirdly: https://www.ishtar-collective.net/timeline
This is the official timeline according to the curator Dyno and the Ishtar Collective, which is a website that holds all of Destiny's publicly written works, and many mission transcripts.
Simple, as accurate as possible according to Dyno's research, and in a single line for easy understanding and browsing.

For simplicity to thoroughness, I'd recommend Previously On Destiny, then the Ishtar Collective Timeline, then the Lore Compendium, in that order. However, you needn't read all three, of course.
Myself and other members of this chat can also assist in discussing or explaining lore topics - it's a personal favourite thing of mine to do, I love teaching lore, so feel free to reach out if you're ever curious about a topic.

I'm fairly sure they were trolling me and weren't expecting me to have an actual answer to "all lore ever" but I do not back down from a lore challenge

[wise thunder]

👁️👁️

D1 - Season of the Lost I’m peachy on

Got that down for sure

That timeline one looks the most promising

Is it constantly updated?

[trim grotto]

Yes, unlike one of the old favourites by Scoobydeezy, Dyno is a very active member of the community. As is dobby_rams, for that matter.
I also have access to Dyno's original raw document and another document from another timeline scholar, to boot.

[wise thunder]

Then im definitely gonna read up the timeline one

[blazing wasp]

I know a guardian did that repeatedly by jumping off a ledge to see if there's a afterlife of sorts

He saw nothing.

[calm bough]

I have a question how Mara-sov survived in Destiny 1 ?

[dim minnow]

she had a Throne World

using Ahamkara/Techeun magic she made Elusinia

which is where we went to in the Shattered Throne dungeon

[calm bough]

Ahhhh ok ty dude ❤️

[limpid pond]

where can i start to learn about the lore?

[gleaming anchor]

@limpid pond you should check out "My name is Byf" on YouTube.

[limpid pond]

yeahh theres alot of shit there haha

what video

should i start on?

[mossy hearth]

The internet could not provide me with a clear answer and I want to know

The biggest enemy is the witness right?

[gleaming anchor]

@limpid pond it depends on what you want to know

He has a long video about the "complete"(till Forsaken)lore of destiny it's about 4h long

[limpid pond]

oh okok

ill check it out

[gleaming anchor]

I recommend you to check out the playlists if you have a specific topic you want to know more about.

[limpid pond]

ok thanks will do!

[safe galleon]

thats a little depressing, but wouldnt you see whatever 'comes after' when you die every time

[blazing wasp]

Assuming there's an afterlife in d2

[safe galleon]

well i mean what 'comes after' could just be nothing, y'know similar to what most nonreligious folk visualize irl

do guardians just not have any perception of their time, like, dead

[ember storm]

are you just talking about Thanatonauts

[blazing wasp]

I don't remember their name

But

They were pretty funny to me

[chrome fog]

It’s the Thantonauts, they’re a whole sect dedicated to dying and learning what happens or what they see

[blazing wasp]

ah

[deft bison]

Shaxxs vs Saint who wins

[trim grotto]

You could scroll up a little for some resources.

[trim grotto]

Yes.

[trim grotto]

No clear answer. Both are particularly capable.
Also, it's just Lord Shaxx. No s.

[ivory sluice]

you know, sometimes i dont even know if we are the good guys or the bad guys.

[mossy hearth]

Alright thanks

[trim grotto]

How so?

[ivory sluice]

we do some crazy things at the cost of other people's expense.

[trim grotto]

True. But we've also been teetering on extinction for centuries.

[ember storm]

example?

Honestly the only ones you can point to that are a few fallen houses throughout the years, and that one imperial cabal squad in the opening of witch queen

everything else is because of them coming to us

[dim minnow]

I suppose the Last Wish raid would count

us killing Riven was what set off the Dreamtown curse in the first place

[trim grotto]

We were asked to do that.

Despite what Mara may argue

[dim minnow]

yeah

[smoky rose]

Speaking of Last Wishes

[dim minnow]

the main issue that caused it was that we all wanted to kill Riven however

[smoky rose]

Thoughts on today's lore anyone?

[dim minnow]

haven't played yet

[smoky rose]

Ill leave that for you to find out then

[chrome fog]

While he’s away can you tell me? I have no Xbox to play through

[outer dragon]

They wouldn't fight. They would sit and trade stories and be merry

Bad powerscaling

[ember storm]

Shaxx wins a yelling match even if Saint has no lungs

[smoky rose]

||Riven had a mate, Taranis. His lair was in the Black Garden, he was different in that he only made benevolent wishes, he didn't stab you in the back. Taranis was the father to Riven's clutch, and when the Taken King arrived he conducted his own last wish, to scatter the eggs so that they may live on. Being that Ahamkara need there to be a difference between desire and reality to feed, making their own wish correct will always kill the Ahamkara, so we find Taranis' bones in the Black Garden. ||

^^ DO NOT CLICK IF YOU WANT TO PLAY THE EXOTIC MISSION THIS WEEK WITHOUT BEING SPOILED

[chrome fog]

OK THAT'S PRETTY COOL HOLY SHIT

[unreal tulip]

||do ahamkara literally feed off of the difference of intention from people's wishes as in its food or source of power for em?||

Exotic mission lore spoiler^

[smoky rose]

Yes

[unreal tulip]

Yes to both parts as ||food and power|| or one of them?

[smoky rose]

Yes

[trim grotto]

||chimken numgets 🐔 ||

[chrome fog]

In all honesty, this is somewhat already elaborated upon back in Forsaken, when we were learning about Riven and the ahamkara; I suspect the new exotic mission simply utilizes that information for it's own narrative, all while elaborating upon it for those who haven't read up on the Ahamkara just to give a gist of the mechanics they run upon

[plush wren]

Sorry but I had to make that joke. I just finished the exotic mission. Technically speaking if we equip thousand voices and wish keeper... We are literally using a... couple???

[devout nimbus]

What shape is an engram?

[gleaming pebble]

Dodecahedron

Well

It's probably some sort of 4th-dimensional version of a dodecahedron because it's got that small dodecahedron inside it

We see it as a dodecahedron because we're 3-dimensional creatures

[exotic cloak]

Hey, I guess it is explained in Destiny 1, but about our origin? I mean our Ghost was literally looking for random corpses in Russia or...

[gleaming pebble]

It's the same shape as a 12-sided die

[gleaming pebble]

Yeah. Ghost just goes around looking for dead people until they find "the one"

A lot of it is luck

Sometimes the ghost just says "fuck it I'm tired of looking, this is the guy"

[exotic cloak]

"Yeah this corpse looks good"

[gleaming pebble]

It's something inside of the person

It's called a Spark in some lore book or another

The ability to wield the Traveler's Light as a weapon

Probably somehow compatible with that specific Ghost too

[exotic cloak]

So not everyone can be a guardian?

[devout nimbus]

👍 ty

[gleaming pebble]

Anyone can be a guardian

If a Ghost so chooses

Check out Ghost Stories, it'll have the answers you're looking for

Also a hella interesting lorebook in general

[exotic cloak]

I have to set a day to read all the Lore books, there are some that you consider I should ignore?

[gleaming pebble]

You don't have to read all of them in one day

Ghost Stories takes about an hour, maybe hour and a half at most.

[exotic cloak]

Thanks

[chrome fog]

Yeah, while it can be enjoyable I don't believe it's necessary to read all the lorebooks, it's better to either watch/read a summary and/or have others explain stuff

[trim grotto]

Read by subject and category
Reading everything will shatter you

[gleaming pebble]

Shatter?

Shattered?

Toland reference?

[trim grotto]

What the hell is a Toland

[gleaming pebble]

I do wanna confirm you're joking

[chrome fog]

There's a been a couple others asking for where they could go to learn more about the lore, and Mael's given a pretty rudimentary rundown of lore resources, and I've done lots of general rundowns on certain topics, though even I am aware I don't know everything

[chrome fog]

No seriously what's a Toland

[trim grotto]

Tee hee

[dim minnow]

Exotic mission was cool

The Final boss was pretty annoying though

At least it was until I killed the Phalanxes

Glad those guys don't respawn

[thorny forum]

is this one of the nine

and was that floating person in the center of the wasteland also one of the nine

[trim grotto]

This is the Emissary of the Nine. She was a Titan once, named Orin.

Drifter was close to her.

The Nine don't have physical forms, per se.

[thorny forum]

who was that floating person

[trim grotto]

I'm not sure who you mean, but it sounds like it was just the Emissary again.

She isn't always this big.

[thorny forum]

it didnt look like this big person

they had a mask on

actually maybe it was just this person

[empty fern]

Kell echo after second encounter probably

Or the taken shiny blight

[thorny forum]

nah it was a human

[empty fern]

Was it perhaps

Your teammate?

[chrome fog]

What other floating person with the mask? You only ever talk with Orin as the Emissary

[thorny forum]

i didnt speak with them

they just disappeared when i got close

and then drifter started speaking

[wise thunder]

Yeah that’s the emissary still

[thorny forum]

o

[wise thunder]

Going near them after the box encounter prompts dialogue between Eris and Drifter

[thorny forum]

ye

[chrome fog]

Yea that’s still her

[fallow sky]

Did riven make the dreaming city curse out of her own free will?

[empty fern]

Oh cool I’ve never seen this

[jagged badge]

No

It was on the behalf of Savathûn

[chrome fog]

Wouldn’t it be a bit of “Yes but no”?

[ember storm]

it was just a win-win situation since she had no reason not to

she gets to grant the mother of all wishes and fuck over the awoken at the same time

[jagged badge]

We’re granting the mother of all wishes here Jack

Can’t fret over every corsair

[ember storm]

ngl if WQ ended with a bare handed fistfight I’d give the campaign a 10/10 despite the weird writing

[gleaming pebble]

Weird writing?

WQ has some solid writing

[ember storm]

WQ’s narrative only works because it ignores a shit ton of basic logic, namely two things that make no sense

1 is the whole “reveal” of how Savathun gets the light

wanna know how it doesn’t work at all?

it’s literally showcased directly in the first missions

you meet Fynch who is a “hive ghost” who explains that they’re all just regular ghosts who defected

case closed

but bungie still tried to make it dramatic by blaming the traveler somehow?

it’s stupid

[gleaming pebble]

I'm only to the part in which we pick up the worm object and get locked out of the memory place

[ember storm]

also why is Eris only there for like 10 minutes

[gleaming pebble]

Eris was there?

[ember storm]

when the entire campaign is about fishing out truths from Savathun

she literally wrote a personal “I am going to be there when you die” letter to her

why would Eris just not be a major player in the story

she has as much screen time as Zavala

also final thing, there’s basically no reason for the whole nonchalant murder of an entire imperial crew

it’s brushed off immediately and has zero consequences, what’s the point

you can’t even argue “well it was setting up for Risen” because it wasn’t

none of the characters in risen were involved and the event is never brought up after one time

Caiatl even has dialogue where she jokes about our gusto for shooting ourselves out of a cannon

yknow, the cannon we murdered her army to reach while they were setting it up

also why does Fynch get cookies and not Archie

it’s unjust

[queen walrus]

That lore after getting the bow was so cute and wholesome. i loved it

[jagged badge]

Or Nimbus

The only one of the three of them who can actually legitimately eat them lmao

[winter aspen]

So, sol divisive could use oracle as well?

[chrome fog]

As in, the Oracles in VoG?

[winter aspen]

I think so

Cuz the new seasonal quest have oracle thingies

[trim grotto]

Well, I'm only guessing here since I haven't seen the quest and have no idea what's going on, but...
I do have an evidence based theory that the Vault of Glass was produced with aid from the Black Heart's power, which is why it was so reality-warping and also why it was never recreated after we destroyed both it and the Heart.

[dim minnow]

pretty sure it was though

Caiatl was ot very happy with us because of it at the start of Risen

[ember storm]

it’s mentioned once in the opening cutscene and has no bearing on the rest of the season because everything else comes from Crow and Saladin’s actions concerning the psiops

[dim minnow]

and the main effect of it was that we were given a final warning

[ember storm]

and as I just mentioned, Caiatl literally makes a joke about it

it was horribly implemented

[patent swallow]

so is riven good or not

or is she just spiteful towards Mara

[gentle geyser]

A big ass no

[dim minnow]

Ahamkara are rat bastards by nature

though Taranis seems to be a unique case

[gentle geyser]

We are only working with riven because its the only way to get inside the traveler

[patent swallow]

i could be just misunderstanding, but didnt Taranis make riven want peace

[dim minnow]

and Riven does have ill feelings towards Mara

[patent swallow]

so Taranis and Riven fall in love, Great hunt separates them

[dim minnow]

yeah, Taranis seemed to be a good Ahamkara (or in this case a bad one)

[patent swallow]

was it just that Riven couldnt ignore her nature

[gentle geyser]

I mean, getting imprisoned and killed does do that I must admit

[dim minnow]

partly that

but also Oryx taking her

[patent swallow]

what was the bargain she made with Savathun again>

[dim minnow]

the Dreaming City curse

[patent swallow]

i get that, why did riven accept the bargain, was it to get revenge on mara?

[slim elk]

There's probably more to the story then we know at present
The "Last Wish" was literally emblazoned on Savathuns wings

Suckers bet Savathun gets something from the end of this. Maybe own personal Ahamkara

[gentle geyser]

Savay got a tat for her girl riven

Fr fr

[wise thunder]

How’d that happen anyways?

I thought Taken were coerced, not just straight up kidnapped

And why didn’t Riven lose her identity like all the others?

[dim minnow]

first off, they are straight up kidnapped

[wise thunder]

Is she still considered Taken in her soul-form? Or is this Riven in her “purest” iteration

[wise thunder]

Damn 💀

I guess that explains tf outa that Centurion in TTK

[dim minnow]

the lore entries on Taken just make it look like coersion for thematics sake

[wise thunder]

Gotcha

[dim minnow]

thisis because she tricked Oryx into making a wish

so when Oryx got whacked, she regained her will

[wise thunder]

What was the wish?

[dim minnow]

we were never told

[wise thunder]

Sorry if I’m just spouting questions 😭

This week got me really interested in Ahamkara shit

[dim minnow]

my guess is that it related to him wanting revenge for Crota

or maybe just him taking Dreamtown

[dim minnow]

as for this, we purified her Heart at the end of Last Wish

she is no longer Taken

[wise thunder]

Ah Ight

[outer dragon]

She pulled a fast one

Made Oryx wish to Take her

[outer dragon]

He asked if he could take her and either she interpreted that AS a wish or he straight up wished it

[fresh zephyr]

What exactly is the Veil?

[dim minnow]

a Cosmic Collective Conciousness

also the Darkness version of the Traveler

[fresh zephyr]

I see

[worldly river]

You know something interesting
When Riven talks about glimpsing "a world without the tireless cycle of bargaining and feeding" it very much reminds me of Savathun's desire to be free of her Worm, and that cycle of violence

Between that and how BOTH of the Ahamkara we've been introduced to by name this season have notably defied their (supposed?) nature, I think at the end of this season we may get Riven's blessing in some capacity, and in time see at least some of her clutch break free of that nature too, perhaps even establish themselves as permanent allies

Also given how she talks about how Ahamkara feed on the space between what was desired and what was received, and that one-off line about reported sightings of a Light-bearing Ahamkara, once again brings to mind the Lucent Hive and how their worms have been satiated by the Light flowing down through the tithe flow

[dim minnow]

dammit, and I was hoping Bungie wouldn't make me start to feel bad for an Ahamkara

first Hefnd, now Taranis

[fast quartz]

I really loved the lore we got with this weeks exotic mission.|| Taranis was so nice to people that he got Riven interested and its so cute that she tries to be nicer because of him. I love what they have and its so sad how their deaths parallel, one dying for their own freedom whiel the other dies to free their children.||

[mossy hearth]

Could it be that if the traveler never came to the solar system, so would also the darkness never come? And the traveler just came to seek help?

[paper gorge]

what happens to nokris

[jagged badge]

Ikora believes the Traveler may have in fact come because it needed help

As for your first point, the Witness would have come eventually. Or it would have succeeded with the Final Shape sooner and we’d have been fucked anyway

[slim elk]

What's unclear is if the Traveler actually decided to make a stand with humanity's help against the Witness
Or as the Witness put it, "it has nowhere left to run"

[empty fern]

I’m putting drifters coin on the latter

[jagged badge]

I mean, it runs in other timelines so

I think the Witness is wrong there

[empty fern]

Shit

[slim elk]

True
But if that's the case the Travelers definitely being quite neglectful towards the Fallen

Let's the Hive be resurrected as Risen but not any Eliskni

[empty fern]

It was a really really great whirlwind

[slim elk]

Travelers not evil.
Neglectful as hell? Oh.. yes

Key detail is one we don't have yet.
What exactly happened in the Collapse that led to the Traveler getting damaged and what role Savathun played in it

[empty fern]

Damaged?

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-gif-4599117

[slim elk]

Check the EDZ

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-video-game-wreck-floating-debris-gif-16578045

Oh yea

[slim elk]

You know what I mean lol

[empty fern]

I didn’t, I was super confused for a sec

[slim elk]

shrug

[empty fern]

[slim elk]

But yeah. Something happened to have all that debris there

[empty fern]

Did it happen before or after the red war shield

[slim elk]

Before

You literally got the light back from the EDZ wreckage

And all evidence points to it happening in the Collapse

[gentle geyser]

Wasn’t it damaged in red war specifically though

[slim elk]

Yep. Which resulted in the floating state you saw in the pics that Nexus posted.

But again. You recover the light from the EDZ wreckage during the Red War

This means the stuff in the EDZ predates the Red Legion arriving

[gentle geyser]

Is that really official tho

Like do we know that

[empty fern]

I mean

Europe was on earth before the red legion

[slim elk]

There's being a devils advocate...
And then there's being deliberately dense

[gentle geyser]

Lets not get wild with the theories

[empty fern]

Hey Australia is real!

[gentle geyser]

Suuuure

[empty fern]

[slim elk]

Funny thing about that Mothris
Antarctica is the missing Continent in Destiny

[jagged badge]

What???

[gentle geyser]

Can’t believe the darkness took antartica

[dim minnow]

Tyra Karn states that the EDZ Traveler Shard was cast off during the Collapse

[dim minnow]

chances are it melted away before the Collapse

[gentle geyser]

Thank you for actually providing the information

[gentle geyser]

Its funnier to think the darkness just yeeted it

[slim elk]

They stole all the penguins!

The true crime of Destiny..

[ember storm]

I mean you could just look at any picture of the traveler pre-D2

[empty fern]

Like this one

[ember storm]

there’s always been a sizable chunk missing https://i.kinja-img.com/image/upload/c_fill,h_675,pg_1,q_80,w_1200/e8e295fc067d4a9ff8f7aa198f3acb40.jpg

[empty fern]

Seems like it
“Collapsed”

[worldly river]

But the reason Antarctica is a continent is because there's a sizeable chunk of land under there

Shit can't just melt and be gone

The Arctic prolly could I think

[ember storm]

you never know the shit golden age humanity got up to

entire continents could just be gone

[mossy hearth]

Is the traveler just a sphere?

[ember storm]

I mean Panama is literally just a ravine now

[ember storm]

it is round

[mossy hearth]

So its like something round with its own conciusness?

[ember storm]

ghosts themselves are all sentient and round

why would the thing that made them all not be

[mossy hearth]

Yea yea i just wanted to make sure I got it right lul

[ember storm]

it’s very much sentient, it just prefers not to speak its mind

it’s whole deal is cultivating life and whatnot, you don’t crouch down at your garden and tell your flowers how they’re supposed to grow

[mossy hearth]

Another question, so from what we know the traveller is the strongest of us right? Or are there some charachters on our side even stronger?

Nah bro they should make a film or something like that out of this game

Would be so nice

[fresh zephyr]

Are some hakke weapons based off the real life scar platform. I noticed that the long shadow looked like the scar 20S

[jagged badge]

Häkke’s general design inspiration is conventional, modern guns I suppose

[fresh zephyr]

Ok

On of my favorite weapon platforms is the scar and my favorite weapon foundry is hakke so I thought it was a cool coincidence

[gentle geyser]

Hakke guns on their way to literally just being guns with barely any sci fi elements

[chrome fog]

Yes, as prior to Red War the Traveler had dark buts in its underside, explained to be pieces corrupted by Darkness. The Shard of the Traveler was one such piece she sloughed off to prevent her form from being corrupted

[gentle geyser]

Can yall shut the fuck already I was answered already

[chrome fog]

Whoop, my bad, Dova cited where it was from

[gentle geyser]

Yea I was already responded to

[jagged badge]

Chill dude

[chrome fog]

I’m catching up

Calm down

[gentle geyser]

Its fine

[blazing wasp]

you know that gif of a guy walking into the room, seeing, well, this, then turning to leave

i think im relating right now

[chrome fog]

Powerscaling is not applicable to Destiny by virtue of Paracausality being meant to allow anyone to make reality as they desire; this is signified by our subclass abilities allowing natural processes to occur outside and environment they would naturally occur in (ie creating atomic fire out of thin air because we will it so), the nature of Ahamakara and Worms/Proto-Worms, whom both feed on and are empowered by the difference of reality-as-is and reality-as-desired (Ahamkara feed off of making them one and the same, worms feed off of doing the work to make them the same a la “Kill others to prove you deserve to exist more than them”; though there are exceptions to the worms with the Hive God Siblings’ worms requiring that they fulfill their specific nature - discovery, cunning, and war), and by the Gardener’s description of the “new rules” to the “Flower Game” in Unveiling (which even with the lore book potentially being a propaganda piece, still gives insight into how the Witness - whom was the only civilization that we know of to develop both Light and Darkness technology - views the nature of Paracausality)

[thorny forum]

i saw what u wrote

[low gyro]

Yeah my bad I'm on mobile and sometimes things don't scroll properly

[thorny forum]

lol

[broken zephyr]

what are the Oracles?

[jagged badge]

So the Oracles are what the Covenant called the Monitors-

Wrong franchise

[void kettle]

Iirc they are basically just vex time supercomputers

That also happen to be very musical

[chrome fog]

They target you and then look throughout the timeline for every other instance of you, to get marked for deletion

They’re not perfect however, Ikora had some traces leading to confirmation of Praedyth in the form of some papers with his name

[empty fern]

Wonder what would happen if the cabal and vex clashed more, we got 1 strike, 1 removed strike, maybe one raid lair and some others I forgot

[trim grotto]

Hang on
Who shifted my lore chat

Why are we down here now

@reef salmon someone is playing a prank on us
Less important than #💠consensus-paragon-crowdsourcing, I see how it is

[reef salmon]

What happened

[trim grotto]

Much bully

We're below #💠consensus-paragon-crowdsourcing now
Such an insult

[devout nimbus]

Oopsies

[trim grotto]

I bet it was NBK in return for me trying to bribe him $7.50 AU

[reef salmon]

not for me

[devout nimbus]

Is it still below for you @trim grotto?

It isn't for me

[trim grotto]

It is actually

Weird

[reef salmon]

Mael is finally going crazy from all the lore

[devout nimbus]

You problem then

Restart discord

[trim grotto]

I did

Maybe you two are the crazy ones

[jagged badge]

Ah yes, No Access, I know that channel

Wait what the fuck

What happened to your project, Mr Curator?

[trim grotto]

It came to life and ran away

[devout nimbus]

No access is my favourite

Especially this one: #💝holdens-hangout

[jagged badge]

Oh damn, Maelstronnar’s monster

[worldly river]

I mean it is an embodiment of and seeming source of the Light as a whole and can be seen as essentially a deific figure
But it also got rekt and is currently completely incapacitated

[grand jungle]

Who’s winning?

[chrome fog]

That itself is moreso a result of its values of non-interference

Which makes it undetermined how powerful she really is

[grand jungle]

I just seen a pic of em both and had a idea

[chrome fog]

What’s the first one

[devout vine]

This ones containment....
And this one's great journey...

AREEE THE SAME!!!

[grand jungle]

Gravemind

From halo

[chrome fog]

Ahamkara

[grand jungle]

He’s the reason there’s the flood

[chrome fog]

Wish magic

[jagged badge]

No?

The Gravemind only exists because of the Flood I thought

[grand jungle]

I may be wrong

[jagged badge]

The Flood have to construct Graveminds, and it was constructed on Delta Halo no?

[devout vine]

The flood is just a natural viral contagion left over after the purging of the forerunners following the activation of the Halo rings

For containment

Basically, the flood is so virulent that the only way to purge it was to purge all bioorganic life

[chrome fog]

The flood were the reason for the Halos, were they not?

[devout vine]

Yep

[chrome fog]

So that doesn’t necessarily describe their origins or why they exist

[grand jungle]

Man meeting the flood first time

[chrome fog]

Just why they’re present in the Halo story as we play it

[devout vine]

Halo is a super weapon that sterilise and purifies anything that is met with the flood

[grand jungle]

Scared tf out of me

[devout vine]

Not really no, they just exist

It's all open to theorising

[chrome fog]

But again Riven undoubtedly sweeps because any desire the Gravemind has can be fucked over

[grand jungle]

Oh true

Since they can do wishes and shit

[devout vine]

The grave mind wouldn't take that chance....

[chrome fog]

I do recall there being some “The Flood are an inherent part of the universe” shit a la Vex but it was from 4/5 and idk much about Halo lore

[grand jungle]

Screw I’m playing halo 2

[chrome fog]

Don’t matter, any desire conscious or not can be taken advantage of by Ahamkara

[devout vine]

Making a wish has far too many outliers, plus he helped Arbiter and Master Chief because activating the rings would wipe everything out again....

[chrome fog]

Any. Desire.

[devout vine]

What desire could an infection like the flood have?

[chrome fog]

And we have a lore entry from this season that illustrates what kind of things might constitute a wish

[devout vine]

Apart from ensuring their survival?

Like a normal pathogenic infection?

[chrome fog]

Don’t they have conscious minds? The whole scene with one of the Flood lighting a cigar?

[jagged badge]

That wasn’t a Flood form lmao

That was an Engineer. One of the Covenant species

[devout vine]

I think that's just conscious motor functions left over from their host....

They retain the host's original motor functions and conscience

[jagged badge]

The Flood are a hivemind, connected by a Gravemind. The Gravemind in question here is reportedly almost omniscient with how powerful it is

So says Halopedia anyway

[devout vine]

On the blood of our fathers, on the blood of our sons....

[chrome fog]

Ah so a previously infected individual who just retains their consciousness, with that whole scene being infected and the UNSC-Covenant wording together for some goal or other

[jagged badge]

Huh?

[devout vine]

No....
Whole TWD Walker retaining information type scenario

[jagged badge]

I’m confused here

[trim grotto]

[chrome fog]

Idk you just said or wasn’t a flood but he had all the Flood stuff on him and was acting friendly, with both UNSC and Covenant dudes there, why would he be there and not attacking them unless all of them were cooperating for a common goal

[jagged badge]

Would you mind showing the scene you’re thinking of?

[chrome fog]

Mael I haven’t played any Halo, I’m just saying what I’m getting from what I know

[trim grotto]

This wasn't a Flood at all
Just a covenant controlled species from Halo 3 ODST

[jagged badge]

Because I am sure you are talking about the Engineer who lights Johnson’s cigar in ODST

[trim grotto]

No flood featured in that game in any capacity

[jagged badge]

Who is assuredly not a Flood form

[chrome fog]

https://youtu.be/dLUqIwUVDoY?si=yjaY9OLpQVxtQ4Bu

[jagged badge]

I knew it!

[trim grotto]

Yeah that's not Flood

[devout vine]

Wait...you mean ODST!?!?

There's no flood

[trim grotto]

That's an Engineer

[devout vine]

[jagged badge]

Like I said

[trim grotto]

No Flood in that game at all

[devout vine]

Exactly

[chrome fog]

Ok so they just look like that

[jagged badge]

They don’t look Floody

[chrome fog]

I thought they looked like that mob spawner enemy

[jagged badge]

The Carrier form?

[devout vine]

You'll know flood when you see it....

[jagged badge]

I guess they’re vaguely both big and bulbous but

Still visually distinct

[devout vine]

Is Rtas badass or what?

[trim grotto]

They're basically Psions
Slaves to Covenant, want to be free, speak via feelings

[devout vine]

There was a rebellion if I'm not mistaken

[jagged badge]

I thought that was the Grunt Rebellion

Unless there was also an Engineer Rebellion

[devout vine]

Ahh yes....
The Grunt rebellion.

[jagged badge]

I suppose they are fitted with explosives usually to keep them from defecting

Anyway, this enormously sidetracked from Destiny lore lmao

[devout vine]

Technically, the halo universe is paraversal to destiny

It crosses over

[chrome fog]

Idk i don’t play Halo, they just vaguely look the same

[jagged badge]

[chrome fog]

Yeah bulbous hunchback creature

And the little flood things made me think the appendages on the engineer were a repurposed one of those made for grasping and whatnot

[jagged badge]

One floats and is blue and purple and pink and the other is bipedal, hulking and massive and coloured like sand

[chrome fog]

And I didn’t know they weren’t just variations on the same creature

Whoopsy, that’ll happen if you don’t closely follow a game

[keen oracle]

This week in destiny

Dragon sex

[chrome fog]

https://tenor.com/view/bonk-gif-19410756

[slim elk]

It finally answered the question of who Rivens mate was

[dim minnow]

previous week's dialogue sounded like it was building towards this

Riven mentions specifically that the only form of companionship Ahamkara have is with a mate

of course, she has eggs, so she had to have one

then there was the starting dialogue for this week when she mentions that she suspects that the one who separated the eggs was another Ahamkara

[slim elk]

Was the expectation. Not a hard rule though

[dim minnow]

and as I went through the exotic mission, I figured that Riven's mate was involved

[slim elk]

Got the dungeon this season showing another Ahamkara that made genuine friends

[dim minnow]

though Hefnd was friends with a non-Ahamkara

and Hefnd still sought to feed from the wishes he made

granted he allowed Naeem to bear the burdens of the wishes

and he really did cherish her

Taranis just didn't put any burdens on anyone who wished to him altogether

[slim elk]

Now what shall be the price of the Last Wish of Riven...

Literally the very driving force behind this season lol

[empty fern]

What’s uhhhh, what’s the wish?

This was directly behind the riven projection plate in helm

[dim minnow]

you should join a random Last Wish lfg and enter that wish and not say anything

[empty fern]

I’m gonna try it solo first

[dim minnow]

no

[empty fern]

Fuck

[dim minnow]

do it in an lfg

[empty fern]

Why,

[dim minnow]

don't say anything

[dim minnow]

maximum comedy

[empty fern]

You do it

[dim minnow]

funnier if someone who doesn't know what it does does it

[empty fern]

[dim minnow]

trust me, nothing bad will happen

[empty fern]

I don’t trust you

[dim minnow]

fine, it's the confetti headshot wish

kind of like the 30th anniversary mod

[empty fern]

Oh that one

Why would they put that in the helm???

[dim minnow]

bcause the Riven spirit room is a copy paste

now go use it in a Last Wish LFG

use it without telling them

[empty fern]

Ok ok

Promising future?

[dim minnow]

oh yeha, it's promising alright

you're in an lfg right?

[empty fern]

wtf

WHY AM I OUTSIDE

[dim minnow]

?

[empty fern]

Oh nvm I’m back at beginning

You fucking Petra runned me

[dim minnow]

hehehehe

[empty fern]

Weirdo

[dim minnow]

get Petra Runned bozo

I hope you did that with an lfg group