📚lore-discussion

[trim grotto]

It's one of my 70 alternative accounts. I was just trying to be subtle.

[junior bear]

indeed

now get back on topic

lore or whatever

[real ingot]

Did you know about the rabbit embyro that caused the awoken to be created

[junior bear]

this better be actual destiny lore

[trim grotto]

It actually is

[junior bear]

wacky

no i dont know

the awoken are boring

[trim grotto]

Imagine a spaceman working on a satellite

Now imagine him getting brained by a frozen rabbit embryo container going at mach 10

Mara saw that, and for some reason thought, "ah, this means I should go on an Exodus ship", which later spawned the Awoken.

[junior bear]

is the rabbit embryo essential to the story

[trim grotto]

Not really. It's just sort of a catalyst. And a... what's the word... I suppose a sort of metaphor.

[real ingot]

Next is the twitter argument that caused Crota's death!

[junior bear]

[trim grotto]

okay even i need context for this one

[junior bear]

see this is why i dont read lore

[real ingot]

I think @dim minnow had it on hand

[junior bear]

or come into this channel at all

[real ingot]

This is old lore

[trim grotto]

No, no
Avlus and Waltz just like to focus on the weird bits

Like the Cow Thing™️ or Doghives

[junior bear]

[real ingot]

I am an expert in Clovis' warcrimes

[junior bear]

im not even gonna question it

[trim grotto]

that's for the best

[fresh zephyr]

Is there a specific reason why Nezarec’s eyes are all different or is it just his fashion choice

[trim grotto]

Yes and no.

We do not have any explicit, outright... or even canon reasons for his different eyes. However...

gimme a sec

Concept art!

[fresh zephyr]

oO

If you zoom in he looks like he’s just seen something truly disturbing lol

[trim grotto]

Anyway, aside from the concept art, no. But I will say one thing...

[fresh zephyr]

I get that tho, he’s taking on the physical aspects of the species he’s tormented of the Millenia

There’s a Psion eye there

[trim grotto]

If you ever see a "theory" connecting Nezarec to the... what're they called...

[real ingot]

Psions?

[trim grotto]

Qugu

[real ingot]

I don’t even remember what the Qugu are

[trim grotto]

They lived in a symbiotic relationship

Point is, ignore that theory

[fresh zephyr]

Hm

Didn’t the K1 crew find one of his eyes at some point

Or like his orb

An orb pertaining to him

So like

If that’s really what his eyes are as stated by the concept art

[trim grotto]

They found the Anomaly. But that's more Generic Darkness™️.

[fresh zephyr]

Hm

Just kinda seems like it was his cause its on the moon and Involved nightmares

And an orb

[jagged badge]

Your face is more generic Darkness

[real ingot]

The scariest kind of darkness

Aside from Scottish people

[fresh zephyr]

Cause we did go around collecting his body parts in season 18

So it stands to reason it could have been his eye

[trim grotto]

I realise the similarities, but Nightmares aren't actually limited to Nezarec. Any Pyramid can generate them.

[fresh zephyr]

Ye but he likes them and his pyramid made all the ones on the moon as a reaction to the Guardians didn’t it

[trim grotto]

The Europan Pyramid created them to ward off Elsie Bray.

[trim grotto]

Yes, but that was inert until Eris touched it directly before Shadowkeep.

[fresh zephyr]

Right

[trim grotto]

The Anomaly, a shapeshifting unstable mass, was what was causing the insanity of the K1 crew.

It isn't strictly an orb

Plus it's a lot bigger than Nezarec himself

The actual Crucible map, Anomaly, houses it in the centrepiece

It's in there

[fresh zephyr]

Huh

Well that answers my question

Ty

[trim grotto]

Fun fact! Rasputin threw a Warsat at a Titan simply for touching it.

[fresh zephyr]

Lmao

[static bluff]

fitting for a titan

[fresh zephyr]

Rasputin loved throwing Warsats at things 😔

[static bluff]

do you literally mean threw it at him

like a ball

[fresh zephyr]

Dropped out of orbit

Like warsat public events

[static bluff]

hilarious

[fresh zephyr]

Or like at Lord Felwinter for a while

[static bluff]

fighting titans with titan mindset

[fresh zephyr]

Lmao

Imagine pulling up to the crucible with a whole warsat

Smacking people with it

A Titan could lift one for sure

[trim grotto]

I mean

AC/D0 Feedback Fence

[static bluff]

that sparked a thought

is there an explanation for class exclusivity in exotic armor?

[trim grotto]

Sometimes! Different armours are made of different materials that suit the fighting styles or Light manipulation of classes better.

But as a hard requirement, no

But as an example

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/starfire-protocol

But on the other hand, Sunbracers were actually forged by a Titan. As was Sunshot, for that matter.

[real ingot]

Lot of Solar stuff has sunbreaker origins

[static bluff]

I get stuff that only works with certain abilities and supers that each class has, but more neutral effects and stuff

a hunter with armamentarium

lucky pants titan

[trim grotto]

Strictly speaking, no, there isn't a hard requirement

Just like how a Hunter could wear a Mark

[static bluff]

cool cool

[ember storm]

did somebody mention doghives

[empty fern]

No

[lilac prawn]

whos more powerful, oryx or rhulk?

[ember storm]

powerscaling bad

you can make up whatever train of thought or logic for either and the argument would just run around in circles

[trim grotto]

Rhulk thought himself superior, but we really can't say. Our experience with Rhulk involved Rhulk being cocky and not actually trying until the end, and Oryx was weakened because we systematically dismantled his Tribute lines.

[wheat latch]

They're both dead* so they're both bad at the game

[weary breach]

a titan as in the planet or as in crayon eater

[trim grotto]

The entire moon of Saturn did not touch a container on Luna inside a secure facility

[empty fern]

Oh yea?

Watch this

[outer dragon]

The crayon eater

[obtuse ferry]

could we logically eat some of the traveler and if so what would happen?

could be some unstopable force?

[chrome fog]

The collectible material in the EDZ are corrupted bits of Traveler

[obtuse ferry]

could we eat them though

[chrome fog]

And also Uldren. And Hawkmoon.

Probably not

[obtuse ferry]

hmm

probably isn't no

[empty fern]

no

I won’t let you, I have my ways

[chrome fog]

It’s like eating aluminum: certainly possible, don’t think you’ll actually want the amount you’re thinking

[obtuse ferry]

well I need to see the outcome of consuming the traveler

[empty fern]

Ghaul

[compact birch]

What is the deal with the robot guards in the Tower? I had always wondered whether they were related to the EXO in some way.

[real ingot]

Frames

They’re just robots

[tawdry mauve]

they are robots

your average sci fi robot without any free will

[chrome fog]

cough cough

(Do the scannable in the hangar for very old lore)

[trim grotto]

It still isn't free will. Arcite and Dahlia are just old and somewhat incompatible.

They try to teach the other redjacks

[chrome fog]

Even if it isn’t full autonomy, I’d like to give ‘em due respect for being nice and not doing an uprising amidst all the stuff going on

[real ingot]

I think that's just programming

[ember storm]

they’re less advanced and sophisticated than failsafe, who herself is pretty rudimentary by golden age standards

[rugged flame]

I got a question since Im a new player and I am quite interested in Guardian lore. How does trials where guardian learn or gain new aspects/fragments work lorewise? Is the enemies real or that just inside our mind? Can you die if you fail your trial? Besides fighting enemies, does trials makes us do puzzle’s?

[outer dragon]

When are we gonna pull Failsafe out of the ship and slap her in a modified Exo?

She deserves it

[outer dragon]

I am assuming this is in relation to the New Light stuff

[rugged flame]

Yes

[outer dragon]

I am gonna have to defer to someone else on that

[compact birch]

I was more talking about who made them and whether they had any similarities from a tech standpoint to the EXOs.

I don't know an awful lot about the lore of the EXOs but I know there is a facility on Mars that made some given you can see various screens with schematics and diagrams of them.

[real ingot]

They were made on Europa

[compact birch]

Ah... That might have been where I saw it I took a screenshot a while back but I can't remember where or when.

But were the EXOs made by the same people as the robots on the Tower?

[real ingot]

Different companies mayhaps

Braytech made Exo's

[compact birch]

So there's no definitive answer?

[real ingot]

Unsure

Frames never interested me

[jagged badge]

BrayTech frames definitely exist/existed

[compact birch]

I really wish the game had more reference to what race you pick. Nothing too ridiculous but just understandable things like having NPC talk about events regarding your character race differently like for example when they talk about BrayTech.

[tawdry mauve]

dont we litterally see them in europa?

in the lost sectors

they are litterally called braytech security frames 💀

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqFHi5ffeSE they even have clovis's voice

[chrome fog]

By Trials, do you mean Trials of Osiris? Or the repeated missions that should be one and done, and yet are repeated?

[rugged flame]

I mean the ones where I meditate and enter some place and learn new abilities

[chrome fog]

Considering Clovis had to modify his original designs for Exos' bodies to allow for emulation of human sensations, there were probably some early similarities that were phased out as Clovis started to develop variable body types to match the original body/ideal body for the housed human conciousness. From the nature of technological development in general - see all the Cloudstrider tech taking influence from SIVA, Ishtar research, and a shit-ton of other stuffs - there's probably some influence of Frame design in Exos, simply just expounded upon to better copy regular human anatomy

[chrome fog]

Do you mean... the Pouka Pond? And the little globe thing Ikora stands next to?

This might be a New Light thing, uh send some screenshots if you have them

[rugged flame]

Aight, I’ll send them later.

[chrome fog]

Marasenna for Awoken, Europa lore books and related entries for Exos, uhhhh a bunch of random stuff for Humanity

[dim minnow]

cintext for the twitter argument?

[chrome fog]

yeas

Also Dova, do you know about the trials for New Lights to get Fragments? Which is what Cunduc2002 is asking about

[ember storm]

i'm assuming they mean the one new light mission where you go to unlock one aspect

it's a bad mission and also new light

so

non-canon

[fiery copper]

Smh forgot me

Oh yeah the twitter argument

Two knights had beef and killed themselves without tithing their strength, which was the first of 20 billion dominoes that led to eris morn freaking out over pineapple fried rice

Somewhere in the middle of the domino chain was crota dying because his tribute chain lost power

[ember storm]

one of the knights was supposed to give tribute to one of crota's champions, and because that didn't happen, said champion lost an entire temple to crota

so a big part of his tribute was cut

this is what led him to having to take a nap after the great disaster

then just look at dark below and you get the picture

[dim minnow]

Basically, two knights were passing by each other which escalated into them arguing over who is better: Oryx or Xivu Arath. After beating each other up, they figured that there was no way for the argument to be decided so they killed themselves.

As a result, there was a small loss of tribute which caused a knight of Crota to lose a crucial fight resulting in Crota losing a lot of tribute

Because of that, Crota had to go into hibernation which is a leading factor in how we were able to kill him.

[chrome fog]

[compact birch]

I love the entirety of human history being summed up as "a bunch of random stuff" but to be fair humanity sometimes think a bit too highly of themselves.

[gentle geyser]

We clapped crota because a couple of knights argued

[chrome fog]

It's more so that there's the Golden Age, the Collapse, and the Dark Age, but 1) the Golden Age has a bunch of generally successful stuff going on for humanity, such as average lifespan extending to about 3 centuries, as well as the bad, like the founding of the Future War Cult by Maya Sundaresh as well as just everthing Clovis did basically; 2) the Collapse was not immediate, it took place over many days/months and resulted in multiple critical events which shaped the current Sol System into what it is today, including the birth of the Awoken, numerous parts of Savathun's plans against the Witness and for her own gain, and like, a shit ton more (the Cryptarchy lore server's actually trying to run down what events happened in chronological order); and 3) the Dark Ages were an even longer period of time in which even more events happenned which would build up to threats we directly address within the timeline of the actual Destiny games

That's not to even address Hive, Cabal, and Eliksni history, of which despite our lack of actual information (save for the Hive and kind of the Cabal) still have enough to provide a fairly thorough summary of the development of their cultures relatively close to the events which lead them towards our solar system

[slim elk]

Latest lore indicates the Collapse may have lasted even years. The distinction between it and Dark Age hasn't been fully developed

Lakshmi-2 points to London surviving well after the Witness hit to at least bare minimum decade

[chrome fog]

Any specific entries?

[slim elk]

Literally the Veil logs and the existence of Stargazer on the mission to dump Lakshmi-2 on earth

Cloudstrider decade lifespan gives a good indicator. Stargazer wasn't the first Cloudstrider, so that provides the decade mark bare minimum

[trim grotto]

What does London have to do with the Collapse lasting years?

Besides, we know the Collapse lasted "weeks and months". Stretching that into years is a bit much.

[slim elk]

The existence of a pre golden age capital still being around and it being the site of a noticeable enough raid by the Fallen that its destruction was heavily notable and made the orchestrator a pariah among his own race

[real ingot]

We don’t really have a date for when it fell is the issue

[trim grotto]

That doesn't really answer my question. It just means it was a settlement that survived the Collapse.

[slim elk]

Pretty heavily implies to me London was a major bastion of humanity before the Fallen burned it

[trim grotto]

Or it was resettled

[slim elk]

And that's where Stargazer and Lakshmi-2 lore provides a hard date of at least a decade after initial witness arrival

[real ingot]

I don’t think Lakshmi is known for being truthful

[slim elk]

Got the other part of the equation there. The Fallen leader shows it was a real event

[real ingot]

Yeah it happened

But I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make

[trim grotto]

Neither do I.

[real ingot]

“The collapse lasted years” is what I’m getting

Even then there isn’t evidence for or against it

[chrome fog]

A Freak Classic ™️

[slim elk]

Stargazer nails the potential timespan.
The point is, it seems Humanity had a city still standing at least a decade after start of the Collapse

[trim grotto]

There is actually evidence against it. Constellations claims it lasted "weeks and months".

[real ingot]

Lakshmi is not known for telling the truth

[chrome fog]

That’s if you consider the Burning of London a part of the Collapse, which it’s not explicitly stated but because of the fact it was a major city that was destroyed, your presumption is that it is a part of the Collapse

[slim elk]

Why focus on her wording specifically? Everything else is hard objective data

[real ingot]

Like what

I’m using Lakshmi’s whole stick

[chrome fog]

“hArD oBjEcTiVe DaTa”

[trim grotto]

People survived the Collapse. Old London either survived or was resettled. I don't see the connection between the Collapse and London leading to the conclusion that the Collapse lasted years, a decade or more.

[slim elk]

Demonstrative proof the event happened from the one who carried out the Burning of London
And one of the few hard dates provided thanks to Stargazer

At bare mimimum this provides a timespan for when the Fallen arrived in Sol

[real ingot]

Stargazer didn’t give us a date

We know the event happened

That was never in question

[slim elk]

Cloudstrider lifespan=date data

[chrome fog]

When we’re trying to argue when a transitory period of time which bleeds into another era through fairly vague accounts of the timespan of said period, of which the specific event in analysis could just have been beyond the Collapse, I don’t think there’s anything we know objectively for the relativity of these events within a chronological order

[real ingot]

And once again

[chrome fog]

And again, what says the Burning of London specifically happened during the Collapse

[real ingot]

Lakshmi was not truthful

She hid Neomuna and all that shit from us

[chrome fog]

There’s a counter to this, and that’s the fact her witness account is never actually contested, even by the Vanguard

Also the fact she doesn’t even know she came from Neomuna

[slim elk]

Can you at least agree this proves the Fallen arrived at least a decade after the Witness arrived?

[real ingot]

Didn’t they say in the logs she was named -2 even back then?

[chrome fog]

That was based off of the body housing her

[trim grotto]

Yes

[trim grotto]

Sure, that lines up with what we expected. They arrived early in the Dark Ages.

[slim elk]

Accusing the wrong person lol
The true conspirator was Esi

[real ingot]

The point people are making here makes no sense

[chrome fog]

No shut the fuck up that’s not the point

[real ingot]

“The burning happened in the collapse”
“The collapse was a decade”
“The Eliksni arrived a decade after”

Like what the fuck even is this

[slim elk]

How was that.. not a fact?

Nyango clearly had a misunderstanding of what Lakshmi-2 knew and didn't know

[real ingot]

You still haven’t said anything

[chrome fog]

Not relevant to the main argument, keep it on the time frame of Burning of London relative to the periods of time we know to have happened

[real ingot]

You just went into Esi conspiracy

[chrome fog]

That’s what I’m contesting, that the Burning even happened in the Collapse, which is precisely what Freak has yet to support in their argument

[trim grotto]

We don't actually know what Lakshmi did or didn't know. She didn't appear to reset, but we don't know if she knew of Neomuna.

[chrome fog]

We know all of the races within the Solar System arrived during the Collapse for however long a period it was, most likely a couple months at max; what has yet to be established by Freak to support his claim that “The Collapse lasted decades” is when the Burning of London happened, which we do not have definitive information about except that it occurred a number of years after the beginning of the Collapse

[slim elk]

And that's where i'm pointing the distinction between Collapse and Dark Age is murky
If a pre golden capital survived that far into the timespan, likely that golden age government remnants were around

To draw comparison: Where's the evidence saying London was resettled or not?

[chrome fog]

By the time of the Burning of London, the Dark Ages could have been well under way and the Collapse already finished, which would then make sense for Lakshmi’s account when her conception as who she was occurred years after the collapse, when Neomuna had been relatively developed as a colony

[chrome fog]

And how is the persistence of Golden Age communes evidence for the prolonging of the Collapse?

Because other than that, there’s no indication that this is during the period of the Collapse

[real ingot]

Just as Joe Blackburn intended

[chrome fog]

With Lakshmi being a marker for how long it had been until the Burning of London, it’s fairly fucking obvious the Collapse had already occurred and Humanity was now in the Dark Ages struggling to restructure a society

Which by the way, WOW A SOCIETY PAST THE INITIAL COLLAPSE??? MAYBE THAT VILLAGE DRIFTER WAS IN AND THE ONE SALADIN RECOUNTS IN SEASON OF THE LOST INDICATE THAT THE COLLAPSE LASTED FUCKING CENTURIES

[idle raptor]

~~ was gonna say. they literally had a bar ~~

[slim elk]

To boil down to a point. I think utilizing the arrival of the Fallen might be a good "marker" to distinguish between The Collapse and Dark Ages
As we lack details why the Burning of London was so notable as other being a despicable act even by Fallen standards

(Which in of itself implies a pretty major settlement being ransacked. Not scattered villages and hamlets)

[chrome fog]

Drifter’s stint as a bartender was only a couple years after his village got fucking obliterated as destructible cover, so like, how developed are we considering a society for it to still be considered Golden Age and therefore it’s existence pointing to the longevity of the Collapse?

Because Drifter, despite being one of the older Risen, explicitly frames his early life as part of the Dark Ages

And Saladin corroborates that yes, Drifter was around for that same period of time

[slim elk]

London being pre golden age capital with no signs of resettlement would be a significant marker to signify that Humanity truly had "collapsed" with its Burning

[chrome fog]

This fuckin guy

[trim grotto]

you say that like London is a lynchpin of human society

[slim elk]

The capital of the British Empire isn't a significant cultural and historical city in your worldview?

..huh

[chrome fog]

Shut your fucking pretentious snout

That’s not what Mael’s saying

[real ingot]

This is one of the most straw gasping arguments I've ever seen

[trim grotto]

that is very clearly not what i said

[chrome fog]

And it’s a point I’ve been reiteration puts a big fucking hole in your argument: why does the fact it’s London indicate that it’s persistence means the Burning happened in the Collapse?

The Himalayas still exist, the Panama Canal - now the Panama Ravine - still exists. Fuck, the COSMODROME, A GIANT FUCKING SPACE PORT FOR COLONY SHIPS STILL EXISTS TO THE PRESENT GAME

To what end does something which has persisted from the Golden Age account for the longevity of the Collapse?

Which is a question you still have to fucking answer, @slim elk

[slim elk]

I faced hostility when lightfall first released about Neomunas government hiding major details from its populace.
Come the Veil Logs.. was right on the money.

The fact that it's actually known by its own name is an interesting quirk there.
The Panama canal is now known as the Panama Ravine in Destiny
Antarctica is apparently MIA entirely
And the Cosmodrome is housed in an area known as "Old Russia"

[chrome fog]

Or would you rather go on about how Maya and Esi are behind all the “dystopian nightmare bullshit” in Neomuna when there’s as equal evidence to human error as a culprit

[chrome fog]

You’re a goddamned idiot and a brick wall

[real ingot]

You faced hostility for using shit evidence and being childish whenever anyone criticised your theories

[chrome fog]

God fucking damn you are like hydrophobic water to any fucking surface

[trim grotto]

I don't really want to get into this, so I'm leaving after this conversation, but, Freak - people appearing hostile isn't so much because you're saying things like governmental conspiracies - it's the way you phrase them, and your attitude. This isn't the only server where it's been an issue.
I dunno, have a think about it.

Anyway, I'm going to do something I enjoy. Have fun, kids.

[chrome fog]

Bye mael, sorry I didn’t do dungeons tonight, midnight came faster than I thought

[trim grotto]

all good

[real ingot]

You nerds were doing dungeons without me

the audacity

[chrome fog]

I’ve been meaning to get the Wish card done but haven’t been able to group up with anyone before I had to leave

[dim minnow]

Pit of Heresy is the best dungeon in the game purely because Heretical Omen slaps

also because I love tricking newer players into going into the kill doors

[chrome fog]

I’m thinking and I don’t think I’ve done Pit yet

Maybe I’ll complete the list of dungeons before next season

[heady gyro]

For a species so caught up in 'strongest deserves to live and the weak die' they sure rely on each other alot for strength

[dim minnow]

people really act like the power of friendship isn't a viable strategy

[real ingot]

3 guns is better than 2

[dim minnow]

being stronger than most others doesn't mean you can't get jumped

the strength of a coordinated group does not go up in a linear scale with each person added

it goes up exponentially

[heady gyro]

Trueee, humans got this far for a reason

[chrome fog]

Plus it’s like “imma spare you, so you get to survive while I get a portion of the Gainz you get”

[heady gyro]

True true

[dim minnow]

though Sword Logic doesn't exactly reward cooperation

that would be bomb logic

after all, we all know the Hive tithing system is a Pyramid Scheme (in both metaphorical and literal sense)

[left gyro]

Tallula Fairwind = Best hunter evers, best dead evers.

[dim minnow]

now see, her mistake was trying to solo that Ahamkara in poker

[trim grotto]

Playing cards with a Wish Dragon is definitely a way to go

[dim minnow]

if she was patient enough to set up a post on Xbox group finder then she might still be alive right now

trying to day 1 the Ahamkara Hunt activity without a cracked fireteam smh

all she got was Caliban-8 and his shitty dealer's cap

[errant olive]

What happened in season of defiance lore-wise?

[dim minnow]

during the Lightfall stuff, Shadow Legion were capturing civilians on Earth

these civilians included people living outside the Last City (particuarly the European region I believe) as well as some people from the Last City like Amanda Holliday who survived the opening Lightfall battle

so, Mara Sov decided to offer her assistance to the Last City

[blazing wasp]

Did we ever even find out why

[dim minnow]

she would make us her offical Queensguard and she would give us access to her power

[dim minnow]

we assume it si to keep us distracted from the Veil

[trim grotto]

The idea is that it was a distraction tactic to keep us busy and away from Neomuna and the Veil

[blazing wasp]

Ah

[dim minnow]

what this did was that it allowed us to traverse the Ascendant Plane in an improved way which allows us to infiltrate the Shadow Legion prisons

so we kept doing this to release these prisoners

eventually, we find the location of more prisoners in the EDZ which us, Mithrax, and Amanda all go to even though Eramis herself warned us not to

[real ingot]

Witness was having the Wrathborn kill any leads whilst we were distracted by the Legion

[dim minnow]

in the end, we manage to free the prisoners, however Amanda stayed behind to make sure the prisoners and Mithrax made it out leading to her death

surprised there was even a body left though since we see it covered like Cayde's body was

so then there's the mourning stuff since she was a major character

[blazing wasp]

Could be just a skeleton, a partial

[dim minnow]

then, we strike back by taking out the main Shadow Legion flagship

[dim minnow]

the shape tells me there is a whole body under there

[blazing wasp]

Hm

Weird

[dim minnow]

now then, that was the main story stuff for Defiance

then there was the exotic quest

[real ingot]

Ashermere

[dim minnow]

the exotic quest had Mithrax guide us through the Vex network as we follow Aher Mir around

it ends with us clearing out the network so Asher can do what he wants

we find out that he managed to create a simulation of the Veil

and then Asher Mir pretty much gets lost in the radiolaria

[real ingot]

Dova was Brakion Aphix?

[dim minnow]

Aphix Invasive?

hmmm

well the problem about D2 Vex is that they aren't really divided into subcollectives anymore

except for Sol Divisive

[real ingot]

I mean the Aphix keep their colour scheme

Supernumeros Minotaurs being the example

[dim minnow]

Aphix also has spikes

[real ingot]

Goddamn they're so cool

Aphix Invasive best sub faction

[dim minnow]

hmmm, I wouldn't consider Brakion Aphix

though maybe his role in Avalon turns into a more Aphix-like role

[real ingot]

I can't recall what his purpose in the Pyramidion was

[dim minnow]

since Aphix were most likely a Vex security force

[dim minnow]

it was to convert Io to a machine world

even though there weren't distinct subcollectives in D2, you can still see that Vex on each destination had very clear differences in their purpose

Nessus were mainly runnign experiments on lifeforms

[real ingot]

If we ever get a major Vex story I hope we get Aphix involved again

[dim minnow]

Mercury was all about simulations

and @errant olive did my explanation help?

I should also note that lore in Defiance included Amanda's backstory

and fun fact, Amanda had used Crawdaddy as a nickname for Mithrax during that season before her death

[errant olive]

Yes ty

I just didn't get the link to lightfall's campaign it just seems random

[dim minnow]

it kind of happens alongside it

like how Risen happened alongside Witch Queen

[errant olive]

Ok

[dim minnow]

though they never really clarify if the campaign ends during the seasonal story

like they never say if Savathun was already killed by the time the Risen storyline ended

same with Defiance and Lightfall

[errant olive]

OK yh ty 😊

[blazing wasp]

Probably to avoid spoilers for people who begin it before the campaign for whatever reason

[dim minnow]

though it is noted that the story for the season starts after the first mission

since the catalyst for Risen's story was us visiting Caiatl to apologize for massacring her troops in the WQ opening mission

and the catalyst for Defiance was the Shadow Legion attacking Earth at the start of Lightfall

[fresh zephyr]

Sorry for dumb questions, but how did the Hunters (the class) born in Destiny's universe? And wich is the way to play them according to the lore?

[ember storm]

you play hunter and you’re playing a hunter

classes aren’t strict restrictions

why do you think bungie let all the subclass grenades be used by all three

hunters were “created” the same way warlocks and titans were made

people with similar skills and fighting styles eventually came up with the name and popularized it

[jagged badge]

Indeed

There’s no one way to Hunter. You would have bombastic Gunslingers and stealthy Nightstalkers. All Hunters

Hell, you could have bombastic Nightstalkers lmao

[ember storm]

you could also be Eris who was a hunter

you’d never tell just be looking at her unless you’re actually paying attention

she’s wearing lucky raspberry

[jagged badge]

I like that we finally got confirmation of that recently

[ember storm]

I was always in the camp it didn’t need direct confirmation

I mean the “oh it doesn’t look exactly like it” doesn’t really work considering Osiris is wearing sunbracers but a unique kind

[jagged badge]

Yeah

[ember storm]

even the orna specifically referencing Osiris looks different than his actual gauntlets

[jagged badge]

A lot of people are surprised by that lmao

[ember storm]

Zavala is also wearing a d1 armor set but it probably doesn’t really count

Jovian guard

[lost abyss]

I think Ikora's outfit is the only one we've never been able to wear. I'm not entirely sure though.

At least for Vanguards.

[jagged badge]

We don’t have Cayde’s right?

Just his cloak?

[ember storm]

vanguard dare is his armor set

loosely, anyway

the main parts are still recognizable

It’s meant to be the set

[jagged badge]

You sure?

They look nothing alike save the cloak

Isn’t Vanguard Dare Andal’s armour?

Since the cloak was Andal’s?

[ember storm]

I may have gaslit myself

still it’s the closest thing we have

[lost abyss]

So, we don't have complete sets for everyone but at least one piece from their outfits, Saint, Osiris, Cayde, and Zavala. Ikora doesn't have a single piece iirc, which is interesting.

Not sure if Osiris counts since I think Sunbracers released before his character design debuted

This would probably be the closest thing we have to Osiris, it's an ornament for Dawn Chorus

It's name is Phoenix Renascence so, it's probably referencing Osiris considering his title as Phoenix.

[ember storm]

it’s literally his helmet with a visor, yeah

[trim grotto]

Well, let's see.
Guardian classes are... a combination of states of mind and disciplines to train in. A New Light would rise, and naturally gravitate towards the "Hunter" methods of wielding Light, and once finding the City, would be trained in the various disciplines, or subclasses, that a Hunter may learn. Guardians often have a preference of an element, too.

But their personalities? Well, they're still people. Personalities vary.
But you quite often find solitary Nightstalkers, or Nightstalkers who are reserved. Nightstalkers who understand the value of supporting the team, or some who just like to be shrouded in shadow.
Or Gunslingers, who are often quite flashy and in-your-face... but you've also got those brooding, gritty souls who just want to get the job done efficiently.

But of course, all Guardians can learn to use any element of Light, and an element stereotype isn't a universal coverage either way.

[trim grotto]

At least with Saint we have the Season of Dawn gear. It's a clear reference, if not a perfect 1-1 match.

[trim grotto]

We did have her shotgun, though. At least, in D1.

[ember storm]

I miss Fabian strategy

[trim grotto]

That's the running theory

Actually wait let me check something

Well, the cloak is right...

[ember storm]

I thought that said a great loser

[idle raptor]

mael

do you have that Lil lore bit where eido is hinting at eramis

[ember storm]

Eramis

[idle raptor]

ya

I can't find it

@dim minnow you're my only hope

[trim grotto]

Hinting at what about Eramis

[idle raptor]

okay bear with me here my memory is very faint

so eido is with glint right

and they're having a cup of tea?

I don't know how that makes any sense but eido notices something with the tea

and it's like stasis particles combined with a fallen claw

and eido says " No, It's — "

I've been trying to find this lore bit but I don't know where to look

pls help

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/chapter-6

This what you're after?

[idle raptor]

YES

THANK YOU

[chrome fog]

For better clarification, it’s like different types of martial arts, but one has dodges, one does punches, and the other does magic

[fresh zephyr]

So there's no way according to lore to play a class?

[trim grotto]

Well, not as a blanket rule, just by stereotypes. Nightstalkers definitely have their strong ones, though.

You've either got... hang on, let me get some examples

[fresh zephyr]

I use Void Hunter... I should be a sniper or gunsliger, i guess...

[trim grotto]

Not necessarily!

The OG D2 Nightstalker is a good one for reference

The Bladedancers deride us as slow. The Gunslingers say we lack precision. "How is that better than a knife?" "How is that better than a flaming pistol?" Well.

My boots sink inches into the ground with every step. My rebreather filters the stench out of the air, but my eyes sting like I'm showering with battery acid.

"We're almost there," my Ghost chirps. My jaw clenches. I know we're almost there, Little Light.

This vile marsh opens to reveal a black cave's maw. Inside, an infinite number of little green eyes flicker like bad stars. CRACK! I fire a single bullet into the air and the horde in the cave shrieks and runs out.

"This is it, you two." The Warlock and Titan leap from the bog behind me. A Bow appears in my hands, and I let a single binding shot loose from the shadow.

Now there are Orbs of Power everywhere. Eat, my friends. Eat.```

https://youtu.be/Iy_i2hABSb0?si=b3Lyo_PuzdFzU9f8

And this, from D1

Excellent cutscene

[fresh zephyr]

Shit...

[trim grotto]

Nightstalkers are often solitary, sneaky, clandestine, hiding in the shadows waiting for the perfect moment. But some learn the value of a fireteam.

[ember storm]

don’t think this means you have to limit yourself to being a solo player

[trim grotto]

But not all are long range snipers. Heck, one of your Supers is melee-oriented.

[ember storm]

the baseline is the guardian has very little characterization so you can make them whatever you want

adhering to basic things, of course

[fresh zephyr]

I played it in the wrong way so ahah

[chrome fog]

Each of the different classes and subclasses draw from different legacies and traditions upheld by those that came before, it’s up to you which of these sets of skills you wanna do

[ember storm]

just remember

whatever the lore says and how the game actually plays are different

[chrome fog]

You define what’s the right way for you to play, don’t worry about any strict definitions of “what should be and what shouldn’t be”

[ember storm]

one isn’t directly commanding over the other

[trim grotto]

Well there's no real "wrong" way, just lore-based stereotypes
But those don't cover all

Nightstalkers can be just as bombastic and brash as a Gunslinger or Titan

[ember storm]

most people just use nightstalker as a debuff tool if nobody on the team is running tractor cannon

[trim grotto]

Gyrfalcon's Nightstalkers, for example, are definitely not sneaky

[fresh zephyr]

I don't have a sniper playstyle... Neither full melee... I just run, jump and shoot, go invisible for a moment and try to debuff enemies...

[ember storm]

yeah that’s the normal way to do it

[trim grotto]

That sounds pretty Nightstalker to me

[fresh zephyr]

But lore says they're snipers or at least Ninjas

[ember storm]

the beginning of the lore mael just sent literally talks about not doing that

they literally walk into a cave infested by hive and shoot harmlessly in the air to alert every hostile in front of them

[fresh zephyr]

Sorry, i'm too afraid of purists judgements...

[ember storm]

it’s been like literally a month dude

purists don’t fucking matter

[trim grotto]

I shall remind you of the meaning of the word stereotype
a widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing
They're often inaccurate and do not refer to all parts of a whole

[ember storm]

get over it already

[trim grotto]

Nobody judges anyone based on how their subclass stereotypes are in lore

[ember storm]

if every little thing you do has you worrying over what other people think, in the context of a video game, you should be looking into what’s making you feel this way so it doesn’t bleed into actual everyday life

[trim grotto]

Like literally nobody except, I dunno, hardcore RPers or something

If I were to act like an Arcstrider I'd be talking about philosophy all the time

Angry monk vibes

[chrome fog]

I’d like to see someone judge others based on how lore accurate their guardian is

I’d love to piss them off with my jock warlock

[trim grotto]

jocklock

[ember storm]

remember the guy who was adamant about figuring out the height of every single guardian

so they could write fanfiction about their guardian fighting master chief

[trim grotto]

Distinctly, yes

[chrome fog]

She angy about research ain’t going smoothly and decided to go full Cabal

[trim grotto]

They also fought Clovis Bray before they actually knew who Clovis Bray even was

I had to inform them that at the time of writing he was a decrepit dying flesh husk

[ember storm]

I honestly think they’re the reason I hate the concept of “augmented exo guardians” even though there’s a couple actually in destiny

like the one who has the weird switch thing with their ghost

[fresh zephyr]

Some examples of "basic things"?

[trim grotto]

Moss-2

[ember storm]

I mean whatever your character says in cutscenes

a headcanon is one thing, but if you pretend your guardian is some corrupt follower of yor who hates the vanguard

[trim grotto]

Honestly I think Moss-2 is a really cool concept
The Guardian himself is kind of incompetent and relies on his lil' buddy

[ember storm]

yeah no that ain’t happening

[chrome fog]

Like definitively, the Guardian was mad when Cayde died

[chrome fog]

I love Moss-2, i wanted to write a character like him but wasn’t sure if it’d be stretching canon too much

[trim grotto]

You say that, but did you think before this season that we'd bloat Eris up with tithes like a tick attached to a fuel hose, then destroy Xivu's connection to her Throne World after making Eris the strongest Hive to ever exist?

[fresh zephyr]

What about weapons?

[trim grotto]

The canon stretches in "fanfic-esque" ways all the time

[ember storm]

what about them

ok do you know what the term headcanon means

[chrome fog]

I Guess Hawkmoon, because of Crow having the ship from the exotic mission

Ok autocorrect why do you keep doing that, capitalizing guess

[trim grotto]

Stereotypes for weapons kind of died off hard after D1. Some might say Hunters like Handcannons, Bows, Snipers, but so do everyone else.
Heck, one of the most famous handcannons of all time, Rose (and Thorn and Lumina by extension) was owned by a Titan, Rezyl Azzir.

[chrome fog]

And Sunshot was forged by a Titan

[ember storm]

Sunbracers too

[fresh zephyr]

So it's not a problem if me, a Void Hunter, uses Auto rifles or shotguns for example?

[trim grotto]

Nah, not at all

[ember storm]

why would it be a problem

[chrome fog]

I use Tommy’s Matchbook on my cowboy Hunter all the time, it’s fine

[trim grotto]

Tommy's Matchbook, an Auto Rifle, was initially owned by a Hunter

[chrome fog]

Had a moment where I used Sweet Business on Hunter, it’s surprisingly effective

[ember storm]

the class exclusive weapon in D1 for warlocks was a shotgun

stereotypes don’t matter

[chrome fog]

And Quicksilver is just wonderful for any Strand class

[fresh zephyr]

In fact it's not only about stereotypes, but also "exclusives"

[ember storm]

what in fact

[idle raptor]

mine now

🔥

[ember storm]

I think you misunderstand

I’m not saying every single shotgun was only able to be used by warlocks

[trim grotto]

Class exclusive guns don't even exist anymore, except for one sword per class in D2.

[ember storm]

in D1 there were quests unique to each class

[idle raptor]

glaives!

[ember storm]

the reward for warlocks was Ikora’s gun

happened to be a shotgun

[trim grotto]

good point

[fresh zephyr]

Sorry, misunderstood

[ember storm]

titans had their own exclusive shotgun too

[trim grotto]

Did they?

[fresh zephyr]

Summing up, i don't have to worry about class stereotypes?

[trim grotto]

Not even a little bit

[chrome fog]

Veeeery not so, that’s part of the fun

[empty fern]

What’s the difference between the black tormentors and the red tormentors

[trim grotto]

If you look closely, you'll notice that one type is red, and the other is black

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-tormentors-lightfall-gif-26563495

Interesting

[trim grotto]

We don't know. We're not entirely certain about what they even are. There's some debate over that.

[empty fern]

Damn

Think it’s just a ranking thing? Since red are seen with calus and black are in things like the strike

[trim grotto]

I'd need to see more examples before I passed judgement on that

[empty fern]

Uhhhh, shit

There’s a black one in the arms dealer strike (sometimes)

There are 2 black ones in the small room in that one story mission
And there’s 2 red (I think) in the desperate measures final area and 2 black in the caitl battle

Where else are tormentors found

[idle raptor]

I think tormentors come from psions

:3

[empty fern]

I will hit you

[idle raptor]

you're too short

[ember storm]

legendary, yes

I think it automatically reloaded when you were inside a bubble

remember the gunsmith reputation quest had multiple stages, one for a legendary and one for an exotic

[trim grotto]

That's... niche

[ember storm]

the legendary guns weren’t good

but the exotics were

ok

d1 Ace really wasn’t that good

Fabian strategy is a guilty pleasure

I don’t remember the name of the warlock shotgun or what it did

[chrome fog]

Could very well come from Cabal or even Calus himself; they were made in collaboration between Calus and the Witness

[empty fern]

I think tloc was more stability and reload when super ready?

Wait shotgun?

[ember storm]

am I misremembering

[empty fern]

Class exotics? Yes

Invective is iron banner

[static bluff]

what's the bomb logic? is it relevant anymore? I remember hearing a little about it during menagerie era

[dim minnow]

basically the anti-sword logic

it focuses on cooperation

[static bluff]

more or less what we do?

[dim minnow]

pretty much

it's a huge part of what guides Mara Sov's actions

[static bluff]

is there some sort of empowerment that results from practising bomb logic? like (from my understanding) the tithing you get via sword logic?

or can we just say the fact that you're together and stronger is that empowerment

[dim minnow]

the tithing part is purely from the worms and not the logic itself

[static bluff]

oh

but

did eris have a worm? and what about imbaru?

[dim minnow]

you see, the Worm Gods gave the Hive the ability to make of the world as they see it

and that manifested in applying Sword Logic to the worms

[dim minnow]

Eris had no worm

as for Imbaru, that was something Savathun cooked up specifically for herself

the Hive gods not only have to follow sword logic, but also their natures

Oryx has to always satisfy his curiosity

Xivu Arath has to always go to war

and Savathun has to alway be cunning

[empty fern]

Oryx the type of kid to wander the forest and get bit by a squirrel

[dim minnow]

the imbaru Engine was a means for Savathun to cunningmax

[static bluff]

cunningmax

10/10

actually

[empty fern]

I feel like I’ve missed something here but am afraid that revealing it will endanger the others

[static bluff]

nvm I was about to have an aneurysm

all 3 tests still generate imbaru right

[empty fern]

Ye

[static bluff]

regardless of them being about different things that represent the hive gods

[chrome fog]

Ahsa - the big leviathan thing from Deep - volunteered to act as Eris’ “worm” so that Eris would receive the Tithes, however she struggled with not taking some of the tithe herself, as her species - which is related to the Worm Gods and therefore the worms - feed off tithe

[dim minnow]

I'd assume that the War and Navigation tests were how Savathun implemented her sibling's nature into her own nature

[static bluff]

oh yeah you're right I completely forgot

[chrome fog]

[static bluff]

I was supposedly paying attention to the dialogue, messages and lore but I forgot about that part

[chrome fog]

It’s very much a jury-rigged operation, but Eris’ knowledge of Hive culture and Ahsa being from the same race the Worm Gods used to be came in handy when making our own Hive God to combat Xivu Arath, who’s been hounding us for a while

[static bluff]

we haven't gotten io back have we

[chrome fog]

Not yet

[static bluff]

tree of silver wings gaming perhaps?

[empty fern]

You think the echos chapter will start with the hezen goblin near Nessus xur?

[chrome fog]

It'd be a big funyy if we had to go to Io for the last season

[hollow zealot]

what do the cabal eat

[dim minnow]

Their diets are known to be meat-focused

there is a lore tab that describes a recipe for impoverished people

[real ingot]

We aren’t sure

Cutscene after RoN implies they all reappeared kinda

[trim grotto]

Mercury didn't

[real ingot]

No one cares about Mercury

Witness did us a favour taking that

[chrome fog]

Lighthouse

Also actually yeah, because the entire planet was basically converted by the Vex

[outer dragon]

I am gonna be honest, the lore where Saint just kills Savathun over and over, kinda devalues the work and the fight the Guardian had to do in WQ story

[left gyro]

best name evers for a Hunter. The really true hunter know 😏

[outer dragon]

?

[left gyro]

what? x(

is Tallula Fairwind in Japanese

the first Hunter chief. :p

[dim magnet]

So my question for lore is why dont we send out like any other guardians to do what we do if like ikora or saint or shaxx is so much stronger then us

[left gyro]

she sacrificed herself by betting her life in a card game against an Amkara and she lost willingly. This is probably the most epic death in the lore.

#tallula

[chrome fog]

We do, there's multiple fireteams ever going on a Strike at any moment. We don't send entire hordes to do something save for larger engagements like the Pyramid Fleet descending upon the Last City, because the last time we rallied a large army to take care of something, Crota wiped out basically all of them

[trim grotto]

Simple. We're already capable, and they're busy. Shaxx trains New Lights, Ikora manages the Warlocks and Hidden and is part of the Vanguard and takes care of the City, and studies and plans.
Saint... Well, Saint-14 has been spending time with his loved one. They were apart for centuries.

[outer dragon]

I don't read or speak Japanese

So yeah "?"

[chrome fog]

Why the

[outer dragon]

I understand who Fairwind is

Also look @chrome fog im blue

[dim magnet]

yeah saint 14 the demon

[left gyro]

the Master of Cayde was the Apprentice of Fairwind x)

[trim grotto]

Tallulah. With an H.
Also, Ahamkara.

[dim magnet]

do we know what the garden is and why cayde was in it?

[trim grotto]

Sorry, what?

[chrome fog]

He was also stuck in the Vex Network slaughtering the Vex in such a brutal manner even after losing his Light that they enshrined him, though technically that was an alternate version of him

[chrome fog]

No the fuck he wasn't, Cayde is like 6th in line

[left gyro]

oh oki my bad haha i just know really well the fairwind story but not sure about her futur xd

[outer dragon]

I still think Saint bodying Savathun devalues the work done by Guardian in the WQ story

[left gyro]

relax i can do a mistake 🥲

[jagged badge]

Did Andal meet Tallulah at least?

[trim grotto]

She pulled him from the Pacific.

[jagged badge]

I seem to recall Micah sending Andal to her and warning her of him being trouble

[chrome fog]

That’s not necessarily the issue but I’ll drop it

[chrome fog]

https://tenor.com/view/power-rangers-blue-ranger-dance-gif-10053154

[left gyro]

but tallula has the best dead evers 🥲

[trim grotto]

Andal Brask wasn't Cayde's master. Just his friend.

[trim grotto]

Tallulah's death was certainly unique, at any rate.

[fiery copper]

They have other shit to do

[left gyro]

mightly of any hunter

[chrome fog]

Veeeery weeb vibes are what I'm getting

[outer dragon]

I think they have English as a second language.
Is the lore written in English and then translated to other languages?

[chrome fog]

Basically

I think

Probably

[fiery copper]

Plus it would be weird to have a raid with AI allies taking up player spots

[outer dragon]

So that would explain alot

[chrome fog]

Tallulah did go out uniquely, with a card game

[trim grotto]

Now, do you mean the Black Garden, or the Final Shape trailer?

[chrome fog]

Saint-14, the... Saint. Don't think there's anyone with an explicit title of demon save for the Devil Splicers, and that's a stretch

[left gyro]

just the best dead evers is not negociable! x)

[chrome fog]

WH

I

[trim grotto]

She didn't really sacrifice herself. She just... Well, lost a card game against a deadly beast.

[left gyro]

yes but is a sacrifice

[chrome fog]

https://tenor.com/view/umm-ok-um-okay-hmm-wait-gif-15827095

[left gyro]

she don,t agree with her role to hunter chief.

[chrome fog]

It, no

She

[dim magnet]

i was saying in the fact of the when he was stuck in the loop they started calling him the demon becaus he wouldnt die

[chrome fog]

They

Mael I'm losing my marbles here

[real ingot]

Is this botched translations

[peak coral]

the sacrifice did not do anything

[dim magnet]

aor atleast thats what i heard

[chrome fog]

Not at all

[trim grotto]

Her position as the Hunter Vanguard wasn't really relevant to the card game. The Speaker convinced her to take up the position years prior.

[chrome fog]

He was still just... The Saint

[left gyro]

she never paprouve her role and she don't agree with her place. she suffering a lot about that.

[peak coral]

paprouve

is that some new quebecoise spelling

or something

[chrome fog]

She just tried to kill an ahamkara in a relatively novel but dumb way. Not really anything special, Hunters are kinda like that

[trim grotto]

She accepted the Vanguard position willingly.

[peak coral]

🔥 i would beat ahamkaras in a card game every day

[chrome fog]

My head is. confused

[chrome fog]

You would not considering they manipulate reality casually

[left gyro]

she play the card game with a Old cool man at the start, she realised is an Amkara later

[real ingot]

Poker Night 3 cast members

[chrome fog]

Your wish to beat them in a card game would cause you demise

[peak coral]

the goofers cannot manipulate my cards if they had no idea how the cards work!

[chrome fog]

WHer, where the heck does it say this, all there is is an entry where she knows she has a losing hand against the ahamkara

[chrome fog]

Trust me, they do

[peak coral]

:(

[chrome fog]

Again, casually eat desire and manipulate the world Specifically to fuck you over

Ahamakara are bad business

[left gyro]

At some point in her career as the Hunter Vanguard, Tallulah was playing cards against a kind-looking old grandfather

• However, at some point during the game, both Tallulah and Caliban took notice of the true nature of the other player sitting at the table and discovered that it was actually an Ahamkara

[chrome fog]

What. Entry

[left gyro]

destiny grimory

[chrome fog]

.

[left gyro]

• wish-granting creature, disguising itself in human form. After this discovery, the Hunter Vanguard continued to play against the Ahamkara so she know with who she gonna bet her life.

so for me, is a sacrifice because she know the chance to win is 0%

[chrome fog]

What grimoire card

Whcih one

[trim grotto]

It isn't. One sec.

[chrome fog]

Yeah, it's an exotic lore tab for her card game

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/tyranny-of-heaven

[left gyro]

As the Ahamkara came around the table to collect its winnings, Tallulah looked at her friend, who was speechless in horror, and simply said "A Dare's a dare, man. Good luck." She know is a 0% chance to win but after she lost. she smile about that.

x)

[peak coral]

byf just pulling up to ishtar and typing in

[chrome fog]

Huh, not even an exotic

[left gyro]

than you @trim grotto

[chrome fog]

Ok, my bad on that

[left gyro]

is ok i have done a msitake too later haha

we are there for that :p

[chrome fog]

My head is spinning, did I wake up in 2012

[trim grotto]

The game had started so well. And it seemed like a great story they could have told back at the Tower.```
She wanted to play a game of cards against an Ahamkara because it would make a good story. She didn't realise she'd die from it until part way through.

She didn't sacrifice anything, she just kept her honour.

As for her position as Vanguard, she accepted that willingly.

[left gyro]

and she die after betting her life

and she know is impossible to win with a 5000+ years creature xd

[chrome fog]

It's harmless, I it I;m just going to leave it at that aaahahaha gb

[left gyro]

well at this point is a point of view

because we never see out of this bow more about tallula.

[trim grotto]

Right, but that is not the definition of a sacrifice.

She just accepted her death.

[trim grotto]

Yes, we certainly do.

[left gyro]

for me, she sacrified herself for give her place of hunter chief because she never agree about her place in the council.

is just a great occasion for quit this world with a epic story

[trim grotto]

That's incorrect.

[left gyro]

of course we cannot be sure at 100% if she think like that but she's my favorit hero so is give her more honnor

[real ingot]

y'know what

[left gyro]

who was speechless in horror, and simply said "A Dare's a dare, man. Good luck." that's correct lol.

[real ingot]

bnuy privileges removed

[chrome fog]

My eyes

[real ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/bunny-bnuuy-steals-your-bunny-steals-your-bnuuy-gif-26209043

[left gyro]

nobody said "A dare's a dare, man good luck" 🥲

wohout know you gonna loose this game

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/the-bombardiers

"Well, I thought you might be up for the challenge," the Speaker said. "Because it would be a challenge, given your schedule. A daring endeavor, even."
Tallulah was suddenly dead serious. "So it's a dare, Speaker?"
"It might be."```
This is Tallulah accepting the original Dare and choosing willingly to become the first Vanguard.

She accepted the position.

[left gyro]

accepted, not approuved.

[chrome fog]

Wha

[real ingot]

That doesn't mean she dissaproved

[left gyro]

for her a hunter no need a chef because the hunter is a free class.

[chrome fog]

What is there which points to her disapproval to the point of not liking her position

[trim grotto]

She chose to become the first Vanguard. She was the original leader.

[real ingot]

There's not even a straw to grasp at here

[chrome fog]

my head

[left gyro]

• Tallulah was approached by the Speaker and was asked to join as the Hunter's representative and leader at the suggestion of Saint-14. She was unamused by the idea, informing the Speaker that organizing Hunters made little sense, as they tended to be independent and have little time or patience for rules and regulations

[chrome fog]

WHERE ARE THE BULLET POINTS COMING FROM, WHERE ARE YOUR SOURCES

Sorry

[left gyro]

she never approuve, she's just accept it.

by duty

[chrome fog]

No

[left gyro]

you read what i post? xd

[real ingot]

Now provide a source

[chrome fog]

She was fine as Vanguard

[real ingot]

Where does it come from?

[left gyro]

After the destruction of the Iron Lords, the Last City was engulfed in turmoil. The Speaker rose to power and tried to install a sense of order by helping form the Vanguard alongside the Titan Saint-14 and the Warlock Osiris.[2] Tallulah was approached by the Speaker and was asked to join as the Hunter's representative and leader at the suggestion of Saint-14. She was unamused by the idea, informing the Speaker that organizing Hunters made little sense, as they tended to be independent and have little time or patience for rules and regulations. The Speaker noted that she had already been organizing and bringing Hunters together on other missions, but she took offense to him describing them as solitary and countered they were independent instead. However, when the Speaker mentioned that although she was the preferred choice there were other candidates to be selected as Hunter Vanguard, Tallulah's competitive nature emerged. She stated that it would be difficult to make time for logistical issues, and the Speaker agreed it would be a daring challenge for someone with her schedule. With a dare now being offered, Tallulah took the Speaker's offer much more seriously and agreed to become the Hunter Vanguard

[left gyro]

Bungie (2019/12/10), Destiny 2: Season of Dawn, Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, The Bombardiers

[chrome fog]

She actually had friends, unlike a good portion of the Hunter population, not to mention she discussed taking up the position with Saint and agreed, meaning she did not decline the position

WERE

WHEREE

[left gyro]

oh yes by duty like i said x)

[chrome fog]

SOURCE

NO

THAT'S NOT

NO

STOP

[trim grotto]

She was convinced by the Speaker as the entry progressed. She wouldn't have agreed if she didn't approve. And she grew into her role, became an excellent Vanguard.

[left gyro]

*"It's Saint-14's idea more than mine," the Speaker said.

Tallulah leaned against the wall, her arms tightly crossed. "That guy has a lot of ideas, seems like."

"Would you consider it?"

She tilted her head to look at the sky, as if imploring the Traveler for patience. "Listen," she said, and dropped her chin again. "Organizing all the Hunters in the system doesn't make sense. The whole idea of being a Hunter is about…" She struggled to find the right word.

"Disorganization?" the Speaker supplied dryly.

"Ha ha." There was no amusement in the laughter. "It's about freedom. Independence. You look like a Warlock, so you wouldn't understand."

The Speaker smiled behind his mask. "Right," he said. "But I've seen you with the others. You've brought other Hunters together, and to great effect. The rescue effort you took to Old Russia, for instance. Or the supply recovery you've been doing with Tav and Venra. There is something to be said about solitary people coming together, working as one…"

"Don't try to make this poetic," Tallulah said. "And we're not solitary. Independent doesn't mean solitary."

The Speaker held up his hand. "You're right," he said. "But if the Warlocks have representation in Osiris, and the Titans in Saint-14, I feel the Hunters deserve some as well. And you're a strong candidate."

"Are there others?" Tallulah said, sobering a little. When the Speaker shrugged, she straightened her shoulders, then tried to shrug it off as well. "I don't know. I'm not sure I have time for… logistical stuff."

"Well, I thought you might be up for the challenge," the Speaker said. "Because it would be a challenge, given your schedule. A daring endeavor, even."

Tallulah was suddenly dead serious. "So it's a dare, Speaker?"

"It might be.*

[real ingot]

I have the entire fairwind category open

[left gyro]

Tge Vimbardier exotic is the source.

[real ingot]

I see nothing saying she disapproved

[chrome fog]

This is projection of something that isn't true except through an extremely stretched interpretation of the lore

[left gyro]

you tell me that 12min ago with the grand pa

xd

[chrome fog]

Look

Love her all you like

But this is just. not correct

Even looking at the same lore entry, which was already posted so you didn't need to recite it separately in the weird way you did as well as copy pasting the lore entry, it's clear that she approves of the idea that a Vanguard for all three classes of Guardians is necessary

Also is probably the entry I was thinking of earlier, I use bombadiers for void

[left gyro]

*Tallulah was suddenly dead serious. "So it's a dare, Speaker?"

"It might be."*

she never approuve her rank she was happy with the idea. she accept only because is a Speaker challenge.

and she has a competitive nature.

[chrome fog]

I

[left gyro]

was not*

[chrome fog]

How do you know she never approved

Aside from "Is HuNteR NatUre"

[left gyro]

She tilted her head to look at the sky, as if imploring the Traveler for patience. "Listen," she said, and dropped her chin again. "Organizing all the Hunters in the system doesn't make sense. The whole idea of being a Hunter is about…" She struggled to find the right word.

there.

DON'EST MAKE SENS sound like someone approuve it.

(sarcasm).

[trim grotto]

That was the final note, but she was still being convinced by the Speaker. She became less resistant to the idea as he spoke.

[left gyro]

yes but i am from the Navy i knwo the difference between a Duty and a choice haha when everyone told you, you're the best for this mission/roles and someone teasing you for try to convaince you, you are the unique choice

i don't gonna approuve it. but i gonna take it. Like a duty haha

[chrome fog]

What the fuck is even this

[trim grotto]

Either way, she grew into the role, and became an excellent Vanguard.
I don't believe she sacrificed anything at the end, simply ran afoul of bad luck at the end of her life.

[left gyro]

"Don't try to make this poetic," Tallulah said. "And we're not solitary. Independent doesn't mean solitary."

it's Psychological, by reading the conversation we understand that she is looking for all possible means to find another solution, if she would have had someone else she would have supported it.

yes like i said about he "sacrifice" is a perception. a point of view.

[outer dragon]

Someone all in on Hunter life

[left gyro]

xD

cleary me and Maelstronnar we're hunter

but tallula fairwind is me :L

[trim grotto]

Tallulah. With an H.

[left gyro]

yes xD

i just dont put it in my text but my name has xd

[jagged badge]

It’s cool having a favourite obscurer character ngl

[left gyro]

well i mean

as a pKer player,

i like Tallulah for her competitive nature

and Rezyl Azzir... because... i wanna be her girlfriend 🥲

but is too late :c

[trim grotto]

He's a little bit very dead.
And also evil.

[left gyro]

is ok

i'm a Skaven lore fan so

Evil and dark dead is my tea cup

[chrome fog]

He's Dredgen Yor

[left gyro]

yup

the first and true City ennemy

[trim grotto]

Not the first. But he was notable.

[left gyro]

the first from the Gardians.

out of Alien or any mystery

a gardian killer of gardien xd

[chrome fog]

Warlords

[trim grotto]

Well, that's arguable. There were many deadly Warlords.

Take Citan, for instance.

[left gyro]

yes

what is your antagonist favorit?

mine is Oryx since i play D1

[trim grotto]

I'm curious to hear more about Micah-10 and her experiences with Cyrell, the Ghost hunter.

[chrome fog]

Same

Also, sorry for my abrassiveness Ink-eyes, hope you enjoy more of the lore

[outer dragon]

The biggest threat to new Guardians prior to Cayde being Vanguard was Taniks

[chrome fog]

blu

[outer dragon]

Im still not sure why I was given it

Im a potty mouth

But hey, it's just regular+

[real ingot]

6 months without a strike

[outer dragon]

I guess I was a good boy then

[chrome fog]

Same, when I got blue

Orange is a different case, gotta get nominated by another

[dim magnet]

so what is the veil

[real ingot]

Darkness equivalent of the Traveler

[outer dragon]

Of sorts

[real ingot]

and staff vote on it

[chrome fog]

Also a black box of all sentient conciousness

[dim magnet]

so then what is the witness

[real ingot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0CKckjryVI

[empty fern]

Ehehehhee we actually have something to say to this now

[outer dragon]

The Witness is a big dork

[umbral grove]

Megamind

[chrome fog]

Megamind pulled a shawty, Witness fumbled getting competent interns

[outer dragon]

Witness pulled Rhulk

[gentle geyser]

Rhulks drown in the deep voice line contradicts this

[chrome fog]

He’s a dumbass jock who took nihilistic thought to be reason enough to commit genocide, he is literally a meathead

[empty fern]

A slender meat head

[broken zephyr]

Saladin solo'd an Ahamkara?

[chrome fog]

He had Efrideet there too

I believe

[dim minnow]

credit where credit is due, his idea that conversion is more efficient than outright extermination was pretty sound

[chrome fog]

Fair's fair I guess

[rich veldt]

a silly goof

[blazing wasp]

The witness is the joker

[real ingot]

Which kind

[blazing wasp]

The society one

[real ingot]

As long as it ain't the Leto kind

[blazing wasp]

That would be insulting to the destiny universe as a whole

[real ingot]

"We'd like to announce Zavala's new va"

Imagine the rioting

[jagged badge]

Huh?

[real ingot]

Making a joke

I'm aware Keith David is the va

but what if

[jagged badge]

I’m dumb and don’t get it

[real ingot]

I'm saying what if we got Jared Leto instead

[jagged badge]

OH

[real ingot]

Tempest moment

[empty fern]

Tempest moment

[balmy mulch]

Do we actually know what engram's are? They're some type of storage device but how do they work? And who made them?

[empty fern]

They were invented during the golden age, can listen to rahool for some more lore
But basically data compression (like a sandwhich)

Storage device ye

[balmy mulch]

Thanks

I've been wondering for a while

[ember storm]

basically like a zip file but way more advanced

since you can physically pick it up

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/transcripts/ghost-scan-core-terminus-mars-2

Allow the Concierge to explain it all. It's a fascinating listen.

[ember storm]

i know that it's voiced by stephen fry but i want an ai voiced by kevan brighting

[fresh zephyr]

So you’re telling me We have the Brays to blame for the years of blue engrams we endured??

[grand jungle]

lore wise whats the most dangerous subclass

[stable beacon]

Who would win in a war? The vex or the hive

[foggy fiber]

me

id win

[grand jungle]

id say vex

they millions of em

you piss em off they make a machine only order is hunt you now

[real ingot]

Almost like there's an entire thing about this

[trim grotto]

None and all. Doesn't work like that.

[chrome fog]

Also for all the exotics

[trim grotto]

Hey
Someone ask me a lore question

[real ingot]

What's Barracks Beau

[trim grotto]

I have no idea

[fiery copper]

do we set a time limit or is it just infinite until someone gets completely exterminated

the thing about the vex is that they don't really have a need to do anything Right This Second

oh you destroyed a vex world? cool they're just on the other side of the galaxy converting 5 more as we speak

the Hive have a physical and moral need to keep killing things constantly

the vex can literally just wait them out

[trim grotto]

There's also the war between Crota and Quria. Before Oryx returned, the Vex were causing havoc in his Throne.

[dim minnow]

Which armor piece released in Forsaken refers to a species the Hive wiped out previously

[fiery copper]

the scrunglo paradox

warlock bond

[fiery copper]

that too, crota got his glowing green ass beat by a bunch of robotic bulldozers

if we took pre-Witch xivu, the hive would still get wiped out, eventually. but like, it would take a while.

with xivu now (somewhat) mortal, oh my god the hive would be so unbelievably fucked if they decided to declare all out war on the vex, or even worse, if the vex declared all out war on them.

[trim grotto]

I didn't actually start until Dawn

[dim minnow]

child

[fiery copper]

i dont believe that for a second

[dim minnow]

I am far more ancient than you

[fiery copper]

destiny lore is way too hard to get into, theres no way you're this knowledgeable without at least being around for d2 launch

[dim minnow]

my body is ossifying as we speak oh god oh fuck

[trim grotto]

[fiery copper]

sanctified mind lookin ass (skull emoji)

[dim minnow]

am I the only one here without an emote server

[fiery copper]

probably

[dim minnow]

I'd need Nitro or something for that wouldn't I

[fiery copper]

i have speb
the acronym is intentionally bad

[fiery copper]

ye

[dim minnow]

I know someone here took a picture of one of my cats and made it into an emote

[trim grotto]

I mean
My emote is from the Cryptarchy, I don't use it for emotes, it's just my home server

[fiery copper]

broke nitro is like 2 bucks a month if you buy a year of it

[trim grotto]

Though I do have some emote servers for little Ghost friends

[fiery copper]

rich nitro is fucking insane, do not recommend

[trim grotto]

[fiery copper]

[dim minnow]

who here got the special edition :dovascat: emote

[fiery copper]

augh i do not

[dim minnow]

netiher do I

[trim grotto]

[fiery copper]

i have versions of these for every pride flag in existence

(mostly)

and more

same with the skel'

[dim minnow]

you still haven't answered this question

[fiery copper]

i did

[dim minnow]

in case you wanted the answer, it is the "Eimin-Tin Ritual Mask" for the Warlock
This is because the Eimin-Tin were first referenced in an artifact from D1 that refers to the race as extinct as well as one of the King's Fall guns which implies that it was the Hive who wiped them out

[fiery copper]

ahh

i thought you were talking about a lore tab or something

[trim grotto]

Ooh, that thing

I always forget that exists

[dim minnow]

those three helmets were cool

I liked the Torobatl Celebration Mask

and I really loved the reference the Eimin-Tin Ritual Mask did

though I can't find anything on what the Nea-Thonis Breather is about

all I got is "nea" meaning snow, negative, or never

and "Thonis" likely referring to a lost Egyptian city

[fiery copper]

nea-city

man that sounds familiar

https://tenor.com/view/kisse-desiny-2-hunter-nighthawk-nighthawrt-gif-4138742812421016270

[chrome fog]

Sista, I started for real in Beyond Light and yet I'm slingin lore about as much as Mael does

Destiny lore is fairly decent - not exactly hard to get into if you have an interest in physics in general as well as an appreciation for mythological poetry

Uh

Thing

For the last part

I dunno what word I'm thinking of, but like, the poeticism and irony of all kinds which follows most mythological readings and tales, how events perfectly exemplify values and morals which hold importance in those disparate worlds

[remote fox]

Genuine question.

Do you think a team of 6 hive guardians could clear vault of glass?

[trim grotto]

I don't see why not, given proper preparation.

[remote fox]

beacuse the line in vault of glass is "Guardians make there own fate" and that got me thinking that wether we like it or not. hive guardians ARE guardians.

so does that apply to them? and from the strength of the hive guardians lore wise and what weaponry that have could they defeat atheon?

[trim grotto]

Hive Lightbearers are not Guardians, they're Lightbearers.

But, yes, it should still apply to them. They wield the Light.

[remote fox]

That would also mean that if they take the same steps we did they could also use stasis and strand

[trim grotto]

Supposedly that is not possible, for reasons not entirely clear.

[remote fox]

and my other question burning at the back of my mind, is is there like a cannon difficulty? like i know difficulty is a game mechanic and not in lore but has anyone figured out at what difficulty were wars fought before our guardians resurection?

like would it be roaming difficulty?

or like gm beacuse one good shot from a scorn raider and your donzo

[trim grotto]

Canon, with one n. A cannon is something that fires a projectile.

No, there isn't a canon difficulty. But if you had to apply that sort of logic, I suppose it'd be that of a Legend Campaign such as Lightfall or Witch Queen.

[remote fox]

Yea i suppose that makes sense

you should be able to play entire campaings on master

legend is kind of a pushover for people used to endgame content

[trim grotto]

Campaigns don't have "master" difficulty, just normal or Legendary.

Not Legend like with Nightfalls

[remote fox]

lightfall weekly missions can be played on master

[trim grotto]

That runs by a different difficulty scale

[remote fox]

im saying that should be an option for every mission after beating the campagin for the first time

[trim grotto]

Legend for the replayable campaign is not the same as Legendary during the original campaign