📚lore-discussion

[umbral grove]

That’s all I know💀

[grizzled zinc]

Bungo better tell us who wins the arm wrestle between saint and shaxx

Do exos have enhanced strength?

[dim minnow]

it can be assumed that Exos are at least peak human by default

though there was one Lightless exo who was able to contend with Ana Bray in close quarters until she got supercharged with Light

[grizzled zinc]

Saint would solo zavala even without the light, i’m not gonna sugarcoat it

Saint stepped down because he believe zavala was strong than him, but i’m sure he meant he’s a strong leader and he has a good heart, not that zavala could deadlift more

I refuse to believe saint isn’t the strongest guardian to have ever lived, he’s just a titan is all.

[dim minnow]

Saint managed to beat the Martyr Mind even without his Light

granted he already sent his Ghost away at that point, so the Vex were able to kill him after

[grizzled zinc]

Does saint ever say how many vex he killed in the forest? Or does he just say countless

[meager belfry]

Im sure Shaxx when he lost the light captured a whole cabal ship during the Red War

theyre both built different

Bro turned it into a crucible map too

[grizzled zinc]

Which map?

[umbral grove]

No he just made it a crucible ground

[dim minnow]

in his own words: "enough to end a war"

[grizzled zinc]

Bro is literally him

He is that guy

[wheat latch]

Do the fallen have their own written language?

[trim grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/well-yes-but-actually-no-meme-aardman-the-pirates-pirate-gif-26563702

These are eliksni letters but they've been functionally non canon for most of Destiny

However they have been used recently in a canonical context

I can't explain in detail though I'm at work

[wheat latch]

Oh they use letters? I figured it would be more like symbol/hieroglyphs

Fair enough lol

[trim grotto]

Remember Drifter's bottle from last season

"Juice of Seven"

[wheat latch]

I didn't play much last season so I'm not familiar with it

[grizzled zinc]

Juice of seven

As opposed to what? Pepsi of the nine?

Spirits of the eight?

Ohh

Bungo just wanted to add the number 7 aight

[fresh zephyr]

unknown how much time but he did win every time

[nocturne holly]

What technically is the strongest race we fight? Vex?

[blazing wasp]

The vex are basically unbeatable but their weakness is paracausality and its a very potent weakness

It's probably between Hive and vex

[trim grotto]

Agreed

[lavish tendon]

Hey Hi Hello! 👋

Question, we got an alliance with the big tusked people we find in mars or venus right?

Cuz I finished the tutorial and got to the tower and there are some of em here in blue uniform

And they are BIG

Seriously, they look bigger than usual for some reason too

[jagged badge]

Our alliance is with Empress Caiatl’s faction of Cabal specifically

[lavish tendon]

Them, yes

[jagged badge]

We still fight remnants of the Red Legion and of course, Calus/the Witness’ new Shadow Legion

[lavish tendon]

So how stable is this alliance tho?

[jagged badge]

Cabal size is notoriously unexplained

[jagged badge]

Very at this point

[lavish tendon]

Ah, ballin

[jagged badge]

Last year it was tentative but then we strengthened it. Lord Saladin now serves on Caiatl’s War Council too as Valus Forge

[lavish tendon]

Is this like one time they're bigger, next they're smaller than the first time, and then they're giant collosal beings?

[lavish tendon]

Good for him!

[jagged badge]

Then since then, we helped Caiatl deal with her personal trauma and also in Lightfall, we helped each other to beat Calus

In fact, there’s a lore tab this season that shows the trust our alliance has

[lavish tendon]

Ballin

[jagged badge]

Ikora is dreading delivering Caiatl the news of Eris’ transformation, as Caiatl’s experience with the Hive has lead to her feeling extremely personally vengeful and distrustful of anything Hive. However, Caiatl was perfectly okay with Eris’ plan and trusts her

[lavish tendon]

Dope

Also

I JUST ACTIVATED GOOD BOY PROTOCOL

WHO IS THIS AND WHERE THE WHEN THEY CAME FROM

I LOVE THEIR LED FACE AS WELL

[jagged badge]

Ah yeah, Archie

Robot dog. I’m not actually all that familiar on why he exists

And how long he did

[lavish tendon]

But I'm glad he does

He may be blurry, but I can still see that they're a good boy!

Also he should be I think max 2 years old, since I last played 2 years ago

[jagged badge]

I mean in terms of lore

He was added to the game last December

Or last Winter generally at least

[lavish tendon]

Last December, got it

[chrome fog]

They’re from Seraph! Purportedly a remnant of Rasputin or something of his creation, you unlock him in the helm when you finished Revision Zero’s mission I believe

He is a goodest boy and Ana is sad Red is gone but is glad Archie is there

[outer dragon]

It was a secret side area of the Rev:0 mission

[low gyro]

Yeah you needed to use rev zero to shoot like balls scattered everywhere on the d2 planets, then when you shot them all you open a door which leads to a jumping puzzle which leads to the dog

[peak coral]

also theres like

40 balls

and theyre in all 3 heists/seraph shield/planets

so it takes a WHILE

[snow plover]

Just wanted to ask a quick question, is there a lore reason why guardians can’t wear multiple pieces of exotic armor or weapons

[rich veldt]

arent they gone now anyways? also it was 50

[rich veldt]

no its just a balancing thing. iirc orisis and someone else both wear multiple exotics in game

[snow plover]

Oh ok

[jagged badge]

People like to claim Osiris wears Lunafaction’s but I don’t know if that’s actually true or not

[ember storm]

i know there's a picture where the bottom half of his robe is bugged out and he's just standing there in his pants

got it

[tawdry mauve]

imo his best design is this one from coo concept art

[jagged badge]

Bro is rocking that nail polish

Hell yeah

[wind belfry]

Casual friday on mercury

[slim pewter]

He didnt feel like putting in the full effort that day

[chrome fog]

With great knowledge and power comes great slaying

[blazing wasp]

Wait... aint that boots of the assembler?

[nocturne holly]

Alright, just was curious thank you.

[digital pivot]

Why did xivu arath hunt savathun?

[real ingot]

she committed Heresy

disrupted the Witness

the Hive are a fanatical race towards the sword logic

Savathun went against it

Xivu branded here a heretic for it

[digital pivot]

How did savathun go against it

Or like how did she go against the witness

[real ingot]

she went against it in a few ways

what made her a heretic was disrupting the Witness' attempts to contact us during arrivals

[digital pivot]

Oh

[real ingot]

Witness was trying to convert us

Savathun didn't want that

[digital pivot]

So because she disrupted the witness's plans for us

Xivu started hunting her

[real ingot]

pretty much

there is more

such as the Witness wanting Savathun as a disciple

and her killing Nezarec

but she hid that from everyone

[digital pivot]

Wait she killed nezerac? How if we kill him in the raid? (I don't know alot about the lore sorry)

[real ingot]

Nezarec was in control of the lunar pyramid during the collapse and had the veil

Savathun seemingly made his ship crash as he died and she cursed his remains

this curse prevented Nezarec from reviving

him being a sort of god of death

at the beginning of Lightfall the big beam the traveler sent hit Nezarec's head and began reviving him

[digital pivot]

Oh so his ship was that pyramaid at the begging of lightfall

[real ingot]

That was the Witness'

During Haunted it is suspected Calus took Nezarec's head from the pyramid

and that's how the Witness got it

[digital pivot]

Oh so he got revived on the witness ship

[real ingot]

since the Eliksni pirates cut his body up

[real ingot]

Yes

[digital pivot]

Why?

[real ingot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCOy-9Z1jcs

[blazing wasp]

See rules

[ruby pivot]

oh?

hang on

[blazing wasp]

Leaks nono

[ruby pivot]

gotcha

[real ingot]

11. Do not upload, post, discuss, request, or link to anything that violates local or International law. Do not encourage any behavior that breaks Bungie’s, Sony’s, Microsoft’s, Google's or Steam’s Terms of Service. This includes, but is not limited to, discussing unofficially leaked content about the game or discussing grey market resellers.

[trim grotto]

[ruby pivot]

well how about this then

[real ingot]

Also no Siva

Siva never existed

[ruby pivot]

i believe the next subclass is nightmare while my friend believe its a siva subclass

[trim grotto]

There's a sub-zero chance that SIVA is a subclass

[blazing wasp]

Siva won't happen because they said so

[ruby pivot]

nightmare seems to seperate right? or was it already stasis?

[blazing wasp]

And siva isn't magic

[real ingot]

Siva is a myth made by the Eliksni

[blazing wasp]

Siva is nanomachines

[trim grotto]

Nightmares are a separate force to Stasis, yes, and they are Darkness

[blazing wasp]

Not a emotional thingabob

[ruby pivot]

thats what i am telling to my friend, siva is a man made it is not tied to any paracausal space magic shit

[blazing wasp]

Nightmare would actually be possible

[real ingot]

Nightmares and Dreams some theorise to be a form of Deepsight

[blazing wasp]

But likely?

[trim grotto]

I don't think a new subclass would be anything we've seen before. We never predicted Stasis or Strand and we had little to no precedent for either.

[ruby pivot]

ah right so far we think solar is to stasis, void is to strand?

[blazing wasp]

I'm banking on resonance if not something entirely new

[blazing wasp]

Yes and not even slightly

Stasis is emotional and though thingabob, solar is nuclear fusion

Very very different

[ruby pivot]

aye same, for me its either resonance or nightmare

tho nightmare subclass sounds cool tho

[rich veldt]

if we even get a new subclass, its more then likely something new

[ruby pivot]

hmm yeah

void is already a gravity like subclass right?

[real ingot]

kinda

[blazing wasp]

It's gravity but also "spicy nothing" and a secret third thing

[real ingot]

Use subclass ideas as energy maniapulation

[ruby pivot]

somesort of eldritch thing?

[blazing wasp]

No it's like

[real ingot]

Solar is heating up energy to produce nuclear fusion

[blazing wasp]

Light is "elements" in a more literal sense

[real ingot]

Arc is adding energy to create kinetic energy

Void is

[blazing wasp]

The light elements are real irl things, the fictional aspect is creation and usage

[real ingot]

the disempowerment and overflow I guess

Whilst Stasis is suspending energy

[blazing wasp]

Imagine you have a big bottle of a vacuum

And you open the cork to the bottle

[real ingot]

and Strand is materilising energy

[blazing wasp]

The effect of the vacuum being filled in that bottle is void

Kinda

[ruby pivot]

oooh i see

[blazing wasp]

It's a oversimplification

[blazing wasp]

Through sheer force of will you put spacetime in a red light green light

[ruby pivot]

so what remains now is arc is to ?? right?

since solar is to stasis, void is to strand, arc is to something?

[real ingot]

opposites thing is entirely a player thing

Bungie has never stated any support or denial for the theory

[ruby pivot]

yeah i know

still tho if the subclass is not resosnance or nightmare i would be abit surprised

nothing comes to mind or i do not know much about science stuffs

[real ingot]

Nightmare is theorised as a form of Deepsight and we aren't even 100% sure Resonance is darkness

[rich veldt]

why would you be suprised when bungie has only done new stuff. id be suprised if it was sonething already in game

[real ingot]

and any evidence saying Resonance can be dark implies it's pure darkness

the opposite of pure light

[ruby pivot]

i am curious about something related to solar, the healing of the solar what does it heal exactly?

[real ingot]

wounds

[ruby pivot]

like if you got a broken bones, does it heal that?

[real ingot]

This may be outdated as shit but Sunbreakers used to embrace the flame as a way of healing/coping from loss

[ruby pivot]

or lets say a necrosis does it heal that too

oh

[trim grotto]

To a degree, and no.

[real ingot]

the flames of solar show the destructive and restorative abilties of Light is my take

much like fire in general

[blazing wasp]

Water is seen as a opposite to fire, but they're very very different despite that

It's not quite like that with stasis and solar but

[real ingot]

I also don't see the solar/stasis opposites

It's clearer with stasis/arc for me

[trim grotto]

Well of Radiance and Healing Grenades are Solar for a reason but we don't have examples that specific

[blazing wasp]

Thing go brr and move fast solar
Thing go _ _ and stop moving stasis

[ruby pivot]

ahh i see, so all we know is that they heal something

[real ingot]

I feel the top applies to arc better

[trim grotto]

Arc, conceptually, represents instability. This is the opposite the concept of Stasis. But scientifically, both Solar and Arc can be considered the opposite.

[real ingot]

yeah that's my issue with the theory

[blazing wasp]

I, conceptually, represent instability

[real ingot]

especially with how the story is showcasing light and dark less as opposites but tools that work with each other

can't have the physical without the mental and vice versa

[blazing wasp]

Not the first time bungie has shoved down a concept down our throats to explain something and people still miss it

[ruby pivot]

ah right has there been a guardian using 2 subclasses at once? example void on one hand while solar on the other?

[blazing wasp]

Just look at crow being called uldren

[blazing wasp]

Plenty

[trim grotto]

Not as such, but Osiris used one after another in very rapid sequence.

[blazing wasp]

Oh wait at once?

Deffo possible but difficult

[ruby pivot]

yes, both at once

[trim grotto]

Then strictly speaking, no.

[blazing wasp]

Don't see why it cant be done, but we have no examples as it's likely inefficient and difficult to do

[trim grotto]

Pretty much

[real ingot]

We also thought Light was creation and Dark was destruction for a long time

[ruby pivot]

so not both at once but a quick sequence of changing from one subclass to another

[trim grotto]

Yes, but this was Osiris, widely considered one of the most powerful and adept Warlocks ever.

[blazing wasp]

creation

literally nicked a fucking bomb

[ruby pivot]

warlocks and titans

one throws a bomb, the other IS THE BOMB

[trim grotto]

Gunslingers tied together three bombs and throw that

[ruby pivot]

well tcrash is like a missile but u get the point

[real ingot]

Look back in D1 and early D2 barely anything on Light and Dark existed

[blazing wasp]

The titan knows where it is because it knows where it isnt

[ruby pivot]

if hunters are allowed to strap 10 bombs together i can see that they would

[real ingot]

nowadays we have Strand existing as literally creating things from nothing

[blazing wasp]

Fuck you and your physics

[ruby pivot]

so we can assume these "elements" are like clay we assume their form to what we think they are?

[real ingot]

they're tools with different purposes

Strands takes the thread between and manifests it

[ruby pivot]

so a hunter has a probability to have a canon for a super?

[real ingot]

Arc is

[trim grotto]

Uuuh sort of yeah
But we're technically not wielding the elements, but the Light in that form

[real ingot]

I forgor

[ruby pivot]

indeed, arc is forgor

[real ingot]

Solar is nuclear fusion

[trim grotto]

That's basically the Golden Gun. But forging a new style and form would require practice, effort, discipline, skill, power. So a straight up cannon would be... probably difficult.

[real ingot]

such as splitting and combining I'd say

seeing as the fire can harm

yet also restores

Pretty sure is making things move faster and making more

unstable

yet

controlled in a way

[ruby pivot]

wait now that i think about it

is vanguard the government of the tower? (edit: i meant last city)

and also do we have guardians like some sort of paid models for some brands? (like hakke,omolon)

[trim grotto]

The Vanguard was part of the Consensus, a governmental body consisting of the Vanguard, Speaker, and the three major Factions of the City.

Four of those five are dead or gone now, including a third of the Vanguard

[ruby pivot]

so uhmm the crazy exo woman faction, cayde, speaker right?

what factions are left in that consensus ?

[trim grotto]

Future War Cult, led by Lakshmi-2
New Monarchy, led by Executor Hideo
Dead Orbit, lead by Arach Jalaal

[ruby pivot]

oh

[trim grotto]

FWC is dead and disbanded, NM and DO all left the system

Speaker and Cayde are dead

Leaving Ikora and Zavala as the Vanguard and that's it

[ruby pivot]

i see

[trim grotto]

Some yeah
People like their foundries

[trim grotto]

Problem is, the Vanguard was very specifically not meant to control or command civilians, that was the duty of the other factions and consensus as a whole

[ruby pivot]

was about to ask another question i instantly forgor it

[trim grotto]

We were simply meant to... Guard.

[ruby pivot]

ah so like a police force of sorts then?

[trim grotto]

No, that's the FoTC
Forces of the City

You don't want the immortal super soldiers with magic powers to be a police force and government

Because that becomes a dictatorship real quickly

Guardians are more like an external defensive army

[cyan monolith]

Just find a targer and tell the guardian it can be a new gun

Burger

Why am i in this channel

How did i end up here

Bye

[jagged badge]

Even then it’s more like mercenaries motivated into functioning roughly like an army

Like, I’m sure there’s many Guardians who actually are noble and valiant and motivated by defending the city, but also we know that the Vanguard had to set up a loot/reward system for strikes to motivate Guardians as a whole

[trim grotto]

The Vanguard incentive system trained us to become loot goblins and they gaslit themselves into believing it was necessary because we were always like this

[ruby pivot]

no i do not believe i am a loot goblin, i believe i am a sophisticated collector

[trim grotto]

Said the goblin

[lavish tendon]

Hey Hi Hello! 👋

Question for current season

We're gonna turn Eris Morn into a Hive God aren't we

[jagged badge]

We did

[lavish tendon]

WE ALREADY DID IT

When?!

[jagged badge]

Yeah, at the start of the season

[lavish tendon]

Ah

So this season is like build up to icing Zivu right?

Xivy*

Xivu*

[jagged badge]

Potentially

We don’t know if we will succeed in killing Xivu but that is the plan

[lavish tendon]

Why does Savuthun want her sister dead?

Apart from the sibling rivalry sort of reasons

[real ingot]

Different beliefs

Xivu is a fanatic to the sword

Savathun is against it

[lavish tendon]

Ah got it

What does Savathun believe in tho?

[jagged badge]

Savathûn turned to the Light, although honestly she does not act according to the Traveler’s principles at all

[fresh zephyr]

who is uun

[lavish tendon]

How did she act?

[real ingot]

WQ campaign

[lavish tendon]

Did she act in like a twisted version of the Traveler's principles?

[lavish tendon]

Never played it

[real ingot]

yeah it has everything

[lavish tendon]

Cool

Last question tho

Why does the Hive ghosts look funky?

Is that like their uniform saying they're hive ghosts?

Or is that like an effect for being ghosts for the hive?

[real ingot]

yes

[lavish tendon]

Got it

[jagged badge]

Different shell they made when they joined the Hive

[lavish tendon]

Oh they made it?

[jagged badge]

I mean, someone did

Point is, Ghosts can swap shells

And that’s all the Hive Ghosts did

[lavish tendon]

I know that part

[jagged badge]

Swap shells

[lavish tendon]

Just wondered if that's all they did

Or if it was some sort of side effect

Since Hive got Hive magic

[blazing wasp]

Probably not

[daring sonnet]

is it pronounced kell-go-wrath or kell-go-rawth

[trim grotto]

https://youtu.be/oX7uAeIbsl4?si=_TS4c6QA09V-Vvs-

[jagged badge]

Chiselled by what

[trim grotto]

[ember storm]

that's so scuffed

[jagged badge]

Your face is so scuffed

[chrome fog]

On the spot; specifically, it’s harnessing potential energy as a force, the same way Solar is nuclear fusion and Arc is static electricity (for lack of a better explanation for Arc, can’t remember)

[ember storm]

do NOT insult the pumpkin

[rich veldt]

its not a pumpkin

[ember storm]

wdym

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/debatesjungle/images/b/bc/Pyro_Jack_2.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/406?cb=20220504235925

this is me irl

[rich veldt]

thats a jacko lantern not a pumpkin

silly waltz

[trim grotto]

is that even alive
can it be called "in real life"

[ember storm]

i’m not alive

[low gyro]

Is this loss

[rich veldt]

perchance

[chrome fog]

Perhapanstance

[little gorge]

no it's kelgorath, taken from bones

[uneven canyon]

Where did the scorn come from? I think it was from uldren making a wish, but they were already a group of outlaws in the tangled shore?

[chrome fog]

It starts with Uldren’s wish for an Eliksni not to die, and with Riven overhearing, she grants his wish by reviving said Eliksni

They became the Fanatic, and first Scorn

From there, they figured out how to synthesize Dark Ether to ressurect dead Eliksni tissue and create the Scorn

The Scorn Barons themselves were all normal Eliksni, just major outlaws

[outer dragon]

Didn't some get turned into scorn at a later date or am i thinking of House Salvation peeps

[real ingot]

Salvation goons were definitely turned into scorn by the Witness

Pretty sure the barons stayed dead

[dim minnow]

Back in Forsaken, the Scorn were enemies to the Taken in the Dreaming City, so it is definite proof that Fikrul was not aligned with the Witness, at least not initialy

Hard to tell if it is still the case since we haven't heard from him

[real ingot]

Stay tuned for Episode 2

[dim minnow]

You know I am

[real ingot]

Personally it’s the one I’m least excited for

Echoes looks Vex

[dim minnow]

Been waiting for Fikrul to come back, I hope Bungie actually writes him as out antithesis like they said he was

[real ingot]

Which I love

And Heresy is either Hidden Swarm or Xivu depending on how this and next season go

[dim minnow]

Hidden Swarm definitely

Xivu might be involved, but the title being Heresy has to mean Hidden Swarm

If only we knew what echoes could be

I could not tell you what that thing in the picture is

Other than that it looks vaguely Vex-like

[jagged badge]

One at least became a Scorn in a public event

[dim minnow]

Imagine if Fikrul returns and we see that he learned how to use Strand, Stasis, and Deepsight

He would be the type to try and harness those powers

Maybe he would even try to harness Light

After all, his faith lies in the fact that Light, Dark, Life, Death, etc. are all mere tools to be shaped by their wielder

[outer dragon]

What Public Event?

[trim grotto]

Old Ether Ritual PE on the Tangled Shore

[worldly river]

Iirc he talks about the other Scorn as family, and I can't imagine he would feel particularly happy with someone usurping his control over his family and using them as disposable soldiers

[ember storm]

yeah, it’s worth noting that basically all scorn were mindless puppets aside from Fikrul himself

the fact that they confirmed scorn had been developing their own unique culture in Lost and then we suddenly have a faction rallying under the Witness makes me believe he’s probably not involved

[worldly river]

The fact that them developing culture was never brought up again and if anything the Witness seems to value them more as additional mindless drones like the Taken, leads me to believe them developing culture may have been Fikrul related

[trim grotto]

It was not described as such by Mara

[worldly river]

Though that happened before Fikrul escaped and iirc the season explicitly calls out the Scorn were working WITH the Hive and Taken

[worldly river]

What wasn't?

[trim grotto]

Their little drips of culture

Hang on let me browse the DLV

[worldly river]

It's just weird cuz the way they behaved reminded me at the time of Sword Logic, strengthening through competition against eachother

But we haven't seen that at all since then, and the impression I got is they've been more mindless under the Witness

[trim grotto]

Bah, I can't search for this on mobile. I'll find it later.

[chrome fog]

I like that we’re getting a focus on the more neglect enemy races before putting a couple more pins in the Hive’s long Shakespearean tragedy

[ember storm]

always funny to me that d1 dlc all revolved around hive and fallen

[lavish tendon]

Question, I recently did the recap quests explaining to new players the recent major stuff that happened

And did the one for Witch Queen

What's Deepsight?

[ember storm]

form of darkness related to memory/the past

it’s how we craft weapons in the enclave

and also do some things in Savathun’s throne world

[lavish tendon]

Dope

Oh my God I just remembered about weapon crafting

[dim minnow]

pretty much what Waltz said

a Darkness-born power that pertains to memory

it is also the reason for the time rifts on Mars

I also have reason to believe that Nightmares are a form of Deepsight

along with their less destructive counterparts, Memories

[chrome fog]

A physical manifestation of a previous state of a portion of reality, usually entire platforms or in our case entire guns

[velvet belfry]

The guardians did actually dispose of nezarec completely right

[chrome fog]

Eh

[velvet belfry]

Thats literally how he came back last time

That would be a massive fumble

[chrome fog]

1. He has multiple tombs, implying he has a thing of coming back to the dead (this ties into the later points)
2. Until Root of Nightmares, he has been effectively dead until the race to collect all the Eliksni pirate relics, in which supposedly he whispered to Misraaks how to return Osiris' conciousness by distilling the Darkness within the relics into some kind of drink (Also Calus was fucking shit up with the Nightmare pyramid, some experiments and some shit)
3. His body had not yet fully formed until the end of the RoN raid, yet he was able to terrorize the CloudArk and also cause a Titan to rip his eyeballs out from sheer insanity
4. After we kill his body in RoN, his disembodied voice claims he'll return or something like that, plus y'know he speaks a whole paragraph after supposedly dying

[chrome fog]

You're overestimating how much we know about Nezarec to begin with

We don't know the extent of his powers, whether the epitaphs about him are true or exaggerated, or even his race (he is not a Psion, simply worshiped by them)

[velvet belfry]

Yeah I did notice him speaking after death

But still would've been better to dispose of or at least collect his remains

[real ingot]

You seen the pyramid

it's kinda destroyed

who's to say it hasn't gotten worse since we left

[chrome fog]

Also destroying his physical form might not even do anything considering he was entirely dismembered previously, with no way of his body reforming

The only reason he even had a body in RoN was because of the Traveler's Light beam

[real ingot]

I'm betting that he may have some relevance next season

since he appeared in TFS reveal

and also still weird that the Gardener "accidentally" brought him back

[velvet belfry]

I kind of want to see nezarec again

[real ingot]

bring him back and give him a better raid ong

[velvet belfry]

Yeah fr

[fervent sandal]

What is necrocasm?

Is it a weapon of sorrow?

What are its origins?

[dim minnow]

you know, I just recalled something

Eido mentioned something about a "curse" regarding Nezarec

[real ingot]

Osiris must die

my theories demand it

[dim minnow]

Eido: Now that we've collected all the relics, Misraakskel and I believe that we could harness their power. To what end… we're still uncertain. While I believe in our abilities, I am concerned about the potential side effects such a process could have. An ancient dirge I discovered describes something called, "the Curse of Nezarec," which is rumored to drain the life of the user. Of course, I don’t give credence to such superstition. Dark Age Humans were comically ignorant. Still, I would rather not take the risk. My father… disagrees. I suspect he wishes to redeem himself for his past wrongs, and in that, I cannot dissuade him. We will continue searching for a method to unlock the relics. Until then, the Light provides.

[dim minnow]

well, we keep on hearing about Mithrax's numbness

so, you reckon the curse is affecting him?

[real ingot]

No idea

someone is dying

my text wall demands it

[dim minnow]

also just had another thought on how Ghosts work

the Traveler can reshape things down to the molecule as shown by how it terraforms worlds (as stated by Osiris)

and Ghosts are each a fraction of the Traveler

so maybe Ghosts work in the same way but limited

essentially what I'm saying is that the Traveler has the ability to reshape the physical world and it seems like Ghosts do the same to an extent

so would that mean the Veil can reshape the mental domain?

[ember storm]

would make sense

if not by physical force, not sure how the entirety of the Witness civilization agreed to merge

[dim minnow]

the Veil could manipulate minds, so maybe that

I'm not sure which I prefer, the entire race unanimously agreeing to merge, or someone manipulating everyone else into going through with it

[slim elk]

Might get a clue if we can determine if the Witness has a singular "dominant" personality or it truelly is a whole collective working in unison

From Nezarec, he claimed the Veil was the sapid secret of the "Witness first victims"

[dim minnow]

maybe the Witness is considered a creation of the Veil

[real ingot]

It’s a weird thing

Seeing as Maya seemed to suffer the same fate as the first species

Though on an individual level

Perhaps Nezarec is even older than them

An ancient being aware of the true nature of the veil

Explains why he was trusted with it and seems to know much of it

Though a massive stretch

[grizzled zinc]

What race was nezzy originally? Do we know? Was he a psion or something?

[real ingot]

We have nothing

We know he had contact with the psions in some way to define their entire culture

[trim grotto]

Other than said contact, we have nothing specifically linking him to the Psion race. Nezzy is... his own thing.

Plus the still-unclear connection to Tormentors.

[real ingot]

Nezzy is the self insert of Joe Blackburn confirmed

[torpid flint]

There’s also the possibility it could have been unwilling for the witness. Like the only way they would be able to survive

[slim elk]

It's all a huge mess really. Suspect bit of hasty writing went on with Lightfall

The "curse of Nezarec" cliffhanger.. hasn't been explained and its been around a year

Nor any explanation why Lucent Hive were making grab for the Nezarec relics

[digital pivot]

Do we know anything about our guardian before they became a guardian?

[dim minnow]

no

[digital pivot]

Sad

[trim grotto]

No, and we won't, either. We have three different races and the idea is that our past doesn't matter.

[dim minnow]

just like the difference between Light and Dark

[digital pivot]

Yeah that's true

At least we know if awoken our guardian was reefborn

[dim minnow]

earthborn is possible too

the only way Awoken narrows down our origin is when we died

which had to be during the Dark Age

[digital pivot]

Yeah see that's what I don't get, destinypedia says that the awoken guardian is reefborn

But the guardian died on earth

[jagged badge]

Many Reefborn Awoken made the exodus to Earth so they could try and help out humanity. Like Zavala, and Orin

[digital pivot]

Oh

So thats how the guardian could be reefborn

[trim grotto]

That is true

[earnest needle]

Why is shadowkeep hive red and spiky anyway?

[trim grotto]

Oh! Good question. I think it's due to exposure to the Nightmare energy, but I'll need to go double check. I'm sure HQ wrote it down somewhere... one moment.

[trim grotto]

Well the Cryptarchy and I did a bit of delving - explicitly, we don't actually know, but we've got some things to extrapolate from.

Firstly - different Hive broods have different colouration to their chitin that displays their aligned brood

The Hidden Swarm in the Hellmouth were always red, albeit not to the degree we see in Shadowkeep.

Secondly, we see the growth of the aggressively red Scarlet of the Scarlet Keep actively growing and overtaking old Hive structure. It's a magical spread, not dissimilar to what you see in the Throne World of Savathûn.

Thirdly, we know the Hidden Swarm by the point of Shadowkeep had protection from the Nightmares of the Luna Pyramid via the magic of the Cryptoglyph.
Avlus suggested, and I agree, that it's quite possible that their new magics and protection has influenced their existing chitin and structures.

Hope that helps a bit, @earnest needle

[earnest needle]

Words

[trim grotto]

aye

[trim grotto]

TL;DR
It's possible their new heretical magics augmented their chitin

[earnest needle]

Good explanation though

[ember storm]

it’s me

I spilled chili everywhere

[green obsidian]

Lore people im annoyed about the traveler/witness/veil lore again

[empty fern]

Read it slowly this time

[green obsidian]

real

[jagged badge]

Why?

[green obsidian]

The motivation of the witness since the cutscene has felt kind of, underwhelming

especially since there really isnt any evidence of the Traveler causing the mass catastrophe that the Veil revealed to them

The goal of the Witness is compelling but the reason it wants it feels messy

[ember storm]

the reason they want it is because it’s there

the traveler was a silent god, giving them gifts but without telling them why

when they found the veil they found new power and new perspective

[green obsidian]

The whole "wiping out a civilization in an instant" thing was such a key part of the cutscene yet evidence of the Traveler doing that is pretty unfounded

in fact most of it has been caused by the Witness which just feels all hypocritical

[ember storm]

the point wasn’t they were afraid of the traveler doing it or whatever

they just found out the traveler’s power could be used that way, and decided to see what would happen if it were harnessed in a completely controlled manner, so they tried linking it to the veil

when the traveler ran away it cemented in their minds this is something they have to make happen

[green obsidian]

I feel like personally I would be more compelled by the story/villain if by pure indifference/coincidence some rare horrible thing happened to the Witness race via The Traveler that caused them to seek out the Veil/Final Shape

I guess 'getting bored of Utopia' is an interesting concept I just wish it was presented differently

or at least "civilizations COULD be wiped out" not being used as an excuse for a villain who clearly doesn't lose sleep over civilizations being wiped out

[ember storm]

you keep focusing on the civilizations being wiped out thing

it’s not the point

they realized the traveler had the capacity to do something like that and immediately tried capitalizing on it

it’s not “ohhh noooo we need to do something about this!”

it’s “wait we can do something with this”

[green obsidian]

I’m saying it’s hard to believe it has that capacity when there’s little evidence of it.

I can see the witness race being more bothered by the “without reason” aspect more than the actual “bring ruin” part though.

[slim elk]

I do wonder if it's something that's come to embrace over time after seeing examples of the Traveler being careless

Rhulks race had the Traveler uplift them..
But after it left, they seemed to self destruct of their own accord

No mentions of a collapse brought on by pyramids or an outside force. (Until Rhulk pulled a death star)
But Rhulk himself lived in a post apocalyptic type world

Went down to a singular city ruled by an authoritarian Regime

[green obsidian]

That could be a part of it true.

[chrome fog]

To speak metaphorically, they were given the power of nuclear fusion, and realized it could be used for atomic bombs

This, in conjunction with a silent god that only gave gifts and their ever impounding existentialism as a species lead them to the goal of defining the meaning of life for all of existence, if their god was not inclined to define it for them

Which is exactly as it is, illogical, irrational, because a bunch of space absurdist-nihilists couldn’t reach the conclusion that the non-inherent meaning to life means we define it ourselves

We, as the Traveler’s Final Wager, embody what she meant for life to learn from their experiences: That we make our own Fate, define want our lives mean for ourselves

[chrome fog]

Part of the Witness’ critique of the Traveler is that she allowed the beings of the universe to harness the potentially volatile power of Light, the whole “Oh, if only you hadn’t blessed me so I would not be in such existential misery!” Bullshit villains like the Witness come to, as if their outlook on life and the responsibility that carries is dependent on another

The Witness crys out “Why would you let a baby handle nuclear fusion?” And the traveler’s silent response is “You’re not fucking babies, that’s why I trusted you with this power in the first place. Make your own decisions, don’t rely on me to do the thinking for you.”

You can see that optimism as neglect or carelessness, but the Traveler’s hope is not misplaced, we just have to mature enough to have the same amount of trust she does in all of us

[slim elk]

The question remains what exactly made the Traveler stop and defend humanity instead of running away as it always had

The Wager argument is now suspect because of its origin in Unveiling

Since that seems to be Witness propaganda now with the Veil exposed..

[chrome fog]

Last corner of existence. It’s said multiple times, you can ask as many times if it’s true, the Dark Future where the Traveler tried this didn’t end so well and all of the story currently has been acting in the basis that this is the final stand

Literally this question is pointless because they say it multiple fucking times, there is no where to run

[slim elk]

Yeah. So that breaks the travelers perception
It isn't doing this because it finally was willing to do something
It's because it has no option left

[chrome fog]

The Witness says it, Dark Futures reveals it, “WhY iS iT aCtInG lIkE tHeRe’S nOwHeRE tO gO” because there’s nowhere to go and the Traveler knows this

[chrome fog]

You’re a knob if you don’t think both motivations could be held by the Traveler

[jagged badge]

Wdym? Didn’t the Traveler leave in the Dark Future to find somewhere else?

[slim elk]

^^^Yep

Left and they literally had to drag it back in the traveler Cage via Leviathan

[chrome fog]

And we never see if it succeeds to survive its escape, do we

Regardless, the fact it’s in the Dark Futures book should point that escaping is not an option

[slim elk]

Which leads to what would lead to the biggest unknown
What exactly is causing Elsies deathloop

If the Witness has won 1000s of times.. what happened to all those timelines-realities

[chrome fog]

This is a dumb assumption to make when you can very much still fucking trying to uphold your ideals even at the end of the line

Being cornered doesn’t mean it has to give up on mortals learning to make their own Fate, fuck that’s the entire point of the Guardians

[jagged badge]

I wouldn’t necessarily say that

[chrome fog]

I’d also point to how it’s only one future out of a possible many that Elsie notes, so even then the act of leaving us would not be strategically viable to the Traveler; in any case, the story, the characters, all of them treat Humanity as the Last Stand the Traveler is taking against the Witness and it’s forces, which itself does not mean she forgoes her motivation of mortal beings learning to make their own meaning of life even if she’s acting in self-preservation (which I don’t know how her rising out of the atmosphere to meet the Witness’s forces head on would be self-preserving)
(Also sorry Eris but I’m really sick of this questioning of the Traveler’s motives thing)

[slim elk]

I'm more figuring why it isn't spreading out the choice one could make as a Guardian
We know ghosts aren't unique to humanity thanks to Lucent Hive.. so why hasn't it allowed revival of various Fallen or Cabal? Plenty of them dead all over Sol

[chrome fog]

[slim elk]

The Wager argument had a solid answer for that question.
But now the very source of it is suspect to say the least...

[chrome fog]

Consider how the Eliksni reacted to Humanity receiving the Light, how we reacted to Savathun and her Hive Lightbearers. Also consider how someone might twist the expanded variety of races the Ghosts could choose from as giving each race another blessing (arguably the Traveler never got bless the Hive which is why the ghosts could now resurrect Hive despite the millennia they had to do so)
I might understand for allowing Cabal to get resurrected as they were never visited by the Traveler, but also Ghaul had relatively recently tried to steal the Light for his own gain, which mayhaps, it probably, maybe, just perhapanstance, affected their chances of being blessed by the Traveler

Ok no more opening blocked messages for me

[slim elk]

So..
It blames the actions of an individual across an entire species?

Gotta remember that Savathun was the one who engaged hostilities and denied the logical decision to ally with humanity even when directly pointed out.

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/star-jasmine

[ember storm]

difference is the witness has never gotten to the traveler and actually created the link before

this is the only time it’s ever gotten close to this point

the introduction of stasis to guardians was the furthest Elsie had ever been in any loop

it was the big thing she had to absolutely focus on ensuring went well

[slim elk]

Yeah. Just still seems quite a loose end there

If it's the Traveler pulling Elsies deathloop, could make sense the Witness could pull similar stunt

[ember storm]

nothing is really suggesting either one

it’s only worth noting that darkness is the only thing we have related to time-related stuff

[empty fern]

Like memory and stuff?

Whole wq forgotten mechanic?

[slim elk]

Yep
Thus the potentiality that Witness is behind Elsies deathloop to try and create the link without nuking the Traveler

[ember storm]

it’s what I’m thinking, which also means the Witness would be intentionally setting up incredibly volatile and dangerous dominos while knowing it has a failsafe

which would track

all of its disciples really only served a specific purpose and were pretty detrimental otherwise

[slim elk]

Elsie being played as a pawn the whole time be quite the twist

[empty fern]

Wonder if they’ll tie off failsafe and Nessus next season or will it be in echos

[slim elk]

They are definitely leaving stuff open for the echoes

[ember storm]

definitely wouldn’t be the first time the witness was just using something while the thing in question tried going about its own business

[slim elk]

Already know Fikrul won't be around for Final Shape

[ember storm]

Scorn on Nessus would be interesting, I guess

but anything on Nessus would be interesting

[slim elk]

And suspecting Savathun will be a big deal for post Final Shape

[ember storm]

because nothing is on Nessus

it’d be funny if she’s never brought back and Immaru just fucks off somewhere

[empty fern]

Immaru gets captured by spider and we have to negotiate for him

Then we “fail” negotiations and whoops that’s wq done with

[slim elk]

Just have Ikora follow up on her threat to throw Immaru in a box

We literally have the tech and reasons to do so.. but she isn't doing it

Ikora be holding the idiot ball lol

[ember storm]

I do like the explanation for us still having to fight Lucent hive everywhere

Immaru is just an asshole and won’t call them off

[outer dragon]

I just want to investigate what Eliksni/Vex are doing on Nessus with the scavenged BA tech

[slim elk]

Yep
Thus why we should strap Immaru with a ghost suppressor till he cooperates lol

"We need you alive, not floating"

Spider would probably like the new specimen for his collection

[outer dragon]

Spider has had Light Suppression tech for way longer the cabal so why didn't the Eliksni try something like the Cage and take the light

[slim elk]

Lack of resources most likely

Took a lot to get the cage produced and Cabal have full control of their industry

Fallen squabble between each other a lot (until Dusk happened)

[ember storm]

spider just had an anti-transmat field on a cage

so the ghost couldn’t transmat away

and obviously their guardian wasn’t around to “join”

so they were just in the cage

no anti light tech

[slim elk]

City itself has those praxic arc bands they use to subdue ghosts

And Crow probably has that full on cabal ghost cage we got for him back in chosen

[ember storm]

remember, stuff capable of just trapping ghosts isn't "light suppression tech"

[blazing wasp]

A prison cell isn't magic

I think

I hope

[analog torrent]

What does “floofy warlock” mean
I agree but why

Is it cause they’re aloof, they can fly, their robes are long and big and puff out when they move, they generally wear mostly fabric

[outer dragon]

Warlocks are floofy
Simple as

[green obsidian]

I’m still curious as to what was Maya communicating with via the Veil.

Was it either somehow the Witness or the Veil just causes certain people to seek out “salvation”

I was convinced with the whole “The witness is the self-defined Winnower there is nothing greater” argument but Veil Containment got me doubting again.

[real ingot]

I'm assuming by the fact that the Witness needed contact with the Gardener to find the Veil that Maya didn't contact the Witness

[plain topaz]

In the scene with Mara and the worm, why did she suddenly stop talking and then saying she’s fine, was this the veil contact they were talking about.

[dim minnow]

something about the Witness

[plain topaz]

Ok

[green obsidian]

Yeah since the Witness didn’t even know where the Veil was it seems improbable.

Although Mayas experience was kinda similar to Clovis and Clarity Control

[real ingot]

Veil likely just drives the one who uses it to insanity

[green obsidian]

Yeah or at least with people of a certain mindset

The gardener does appear to have some willpower though so I wonder

For the darkness side

[real ingot]

I doubt we're gonna learn the specific of veil/gardener sentience

only how they work

[green obsidian]

Surely Final Shape will have a satisfying answer, surely

[real ingot]

eh

space deities

[dim minnow]

the Veil Containment log we got at the start of this season does seem to imply that the Veil and Traveler were once two parts of a whole

[real ingot]

Osiris also states he doesn't believe it

As he said

people will never be sure

[green obsidian]

Ahsa also says two halves of a whole long divided..a schism between them

So if that’s the case, then maybe there is some Unveiling like event that caused them to separate.

[dim minnow]

I still think that while Unveiling is heavily allegorical, it is still based on what really happened in some way

case-in-point, the Vex

exposing them to Clarty reduces them into a reductive pattern which is what they started as in the Garden

[green obsidian]

That’s pretty much what I think too.

Just all connecting back to that argument over how the flower game/existence should play out

The name of the game literally is Destiny after all

[dim minnow]

Strongest Destiny Lore take on Reddit

[smoky rose]

as far as the heirloom

Does anyone have the Wish card yet

I don't think so do we?

[outer dragon]

Wait what? That was the Witness?

[dim minnow]

Mara has actually encountered it previously

which was why she recognized it during Lightfall

[chrome fog]

Why the hell would Taox be involved, she was the former tutor of the Osmium Princesses and as far as we know, been floating around in a crystal prison somewhere in deep space

[ember storm]

oxta engine shit ig

not the worst reddit theory i've seen honestly

[dim minnow]

I mainly posted that image as a joke

[ember storm]

i miss the spinfoil theories this channel used to have

witness druid race

[outer dragon]

Do we know where the original is?

[fierce plaza]

What is the cenotaph mask lore wise?
I’ve been wondering lately and I’m guessing it’s some kind of relic related to tormentors or the pyramids

[trim grotto]

Apart from the entry attached to it, we don't actually know anything more about it.

[fierce plaza]

Ah ok

[dim minnow]

/ˈsenəˌtaf/
noun
a monument to someone buried elsewhere, especially one commemorating people who died in a war.```

[meager belfry]

wasnt it like picked up somewhere

and that's literally it

wait wait wrong exotic myb

That's sunstar

[dim minnow]

they don't really specify which Pyramid this thing came from though

[raven glen]

Lore wise and based on final shape trailer u guys think well the witness is well pissed at us or like annoyed of us now cus at first he seemed like calm bur since our actions he seems pretty pissed at us now or annoyed like he knows we are coming

[real ingot]

can't be determined

[trim grotto]

[dim minnow]

the Witness is described as being weary at the point of Lightfall

and it seems like it knows that we are capable of following it if given enough time which is why it needs to keep Xivu Arath in our way

[modest sierra]

we beat the witness high skill diff

[jagged badge]

Not really

If we beat the Witness it’s most likely only going to be because we heavily weaken it first

This will not be a triumph of just strength and skill but of strategy

[blazing wasp]

Fortunately our guardian is excellent at fighting as dirty as humanly possible

Just look at oryx

[dim minnow]

I think it's more about our ability to make our own fate

since our force of will was strong enough, things turned to our favor

[blazing wasp]

But we are good at fighting dirty

Which is a reasonable strategy when faced with fucking gods

[dim minnow]

we killed Crota, Eris and Osiris warn Mara about Oryx, Mara sacrifices herself and her fleet to keep Oryx at bay, the rest is history

[grizzled zinc]

What do we think will happen to immaru post-witch

[ember storm]

nothing

they’re not going to change patrol dialogue

[woeful wind]

whats the story behind this npc

[blazing wasp]

Regular ol redjack

It's a robot, with a rifle

[jolly vector]

do you know geth in mass effect?

[woeful wind]

robot

or smth

[jolly vector]

the enemy with millions of AI inside them that goes out and do shit and go back jack into their own network to accumulate data

this is not AI but they works the same

but generally they also sucks since their combat ability is really low

generally they just dies

[empty fern]

Takes 20 of them for a single hive knight

[jolly vector]

just imagine using a couple million romba with knives tape on top

[empty fern]

A million knife roombas vs COUGHING BABY

[jolly vector]

[empty fern]

Lore noises

[twilit drift]

so savathun was resurrected and fled offscreen ?

[gray cloak]

Ending has me confused

We resurrected Savathun only to slit her throat for Eris?

[twilit drift]

eris absorded savathuns power to banish xivu from her throne world

but the following dialogues after that say that savathun was resurrected again

and left immaru with the vanguard

they let savathun go

hella dumb they made this happen offscreen

[slim elk]

Sounds like what I was afraid of

Did Xivu even make an apperance?

[twilit drift]

nah

[slim elk]

Seems the Lightfall writing still plagues us alas

All this build up and we dont even see the confrontation

What an anti-climax

[twilit drift]

eris chose to not confront xivu

she instead made her mortal

this was eris plan

[smoky rose]

The confrontation was with Xivu's top brass

[twilit drift]

ya

[smoky rose]

Which was set up in like

week 1

[twilit drift]

a silly knight

[smoky rose]

or 2

[slim elk]

Yeah
Also referring to the whole Savathun revival and Immaru held hostage

[smoky rose]

I'm on that step rn let me check

[twilit drift]

anyway, what bums me out is that they revive savathun to let eris kill her and take her power

which makes sense

but why have the 2nd resurrection happen off screen

where savathun makes the deal with the vanguard

[smoky rose]

"it looks good on you, honey" is such a good line

[twilit drift]

this should be a cinematic

and not happen offscreen

but oh well

[smoky rose]

Ah Savathun is off on her own adventures, immaru is the "kill him if I do anything stupid"

[twilit drift]

exactly

[slim elk]

"So.. why are we still fighting the Lucent Hive again?"

[twilit drift]

because the writers said so

[slim elk]

Literally have the apocypse scheduled for next year lol

Think can bury the hatchet long enough to handle the Witness

[smoky rose]

Also confirmed that Heresy is when Xivu dies

[twilit drift]

heresy ?

[smoky rose]

Third episode next year

[twilit drift]

oh

[smoky rose]

Echoes, Revenant, Heresy

[twilit drift]

sheesh that long still

[ember storm]

lame

I’m tired of hearing her voice

[slim elk]

Episodes are basically the "loose ends" of Destiny being wrapped up

Xivu and Fikrul..

[twilit drift]

has fikrul even done anything since forsaken

[ember storm]

no and that’s sort of the point

[slim elk]

Ran off the Tangled Shore offscreen.. and thats it

[ember storm]

there was one time in Haunted where his nightmare spoke but that doesn’t count

was honestly surprised they got Matt Mercer back to say one word

[twilit drift]

he too expensive for bungos small budget

[smoky rose]

Spoilers for this week

obviously

don't click if haven't played

[wooden token]

so is she dead dead?

[smoky rose]

Sav or Xivu

[wooden token]

i just finished the mission

[smoky rose]

The answer is no for both

[wooden token]

explanation? not really up to lore but kind of interested

[ornate pike]

So
Lemme see if I got this right.
||Xivu is now mortal and basically has gotten reset in terms of power.
Savathun is back and out in the world but left her ghost with us as a peace offering.
Eris has lost her god hood and is offically back to normal.||
Holy crap.

[smoky rose]

||Sav scuttled off to whereever corner she is hiding in, leaving us with immaru as a "break in case of savathun shenanigans" type thing
Xivu has been severed from godhood, now a mortal, she will be permanently dead the next time someone kills her||

[wooden token]

ahh i see

thanks

[ornate pike]

||I'm assuming there's an explanation I've yet to see uploaded but I'm guessing come next season or end of this one, Savathun is gonna come back and tell us what we wanna know but for now we're letting the dust settle on basically leaving the hive without ANY gods to follow. ||

[dry lagoon]

yeah that lore book I expected more of an explanation

||She hit us with yeah I’ll lyk later what I mean as a way to just make us wait for next season ||

[ember storm]

||love that Eris is using night terror ||

[little gorge]

well episodes are just the new seasons

the tfs episodes are loose ends because what else could they possibly be

[ember storm]

it’s the new seasonal model going forward

it’s not a one and done

the FS episodes are just specifically tying up this saga’s storyline

[silk gyro]

||Xivu isn't reset, she's still at full power just can't retreat to the throne world||

[little gorge]

well

if we could only get 1 of them

I'd say we got the more important one

[silk gyro]

People didn't preorder the final shape and we didn't buy enough silver for bungo to afford a 2nd cinematic.

[little gorge]

destiny players on their way to blame everything on bungie wanting more money:

[ember storm]

no ashen wake ornament bungie must be broke

[silk gyro]

more like low effort humor dweeb making low effort joke

Either way, ||looks like Bungie is setting up Xivu Arath to be the big bad after the final shape. Kinda disappointed that we won't get to fight her beforehand.||

[little gorge]

do you prefer that or killing her in a season

[silk gyro]

ok thats a really good point, she deserves a raid

I guess I just really wanted to see her ingame for once.

[ember storm]

I’m just sick of having hive god dlc

[little gorge]

i for one love the hive

[ember storm]

too much of anything makes me not like it

plus I just hate how Xivu’s brood looks so

[little gorge]

I'd be fine with a full year of hive

aiat

[unreal tulip]

Was xivu deemed a God always? If not how did she become one

[jagged badge]

The three siblings became the Hive Gods when they took up the deal with the worm gods on Fundament

[unreal tulip]

What's fundament?

[jagged badge]

The planet the Krill inhabited (the Krill were the Hive before they became the Hive)

[unreal tulip]

Ah, and are there still worm gods?

[smoky rose]

Xivu has been a hive god since the hive were a thing

[jagged badge]

Yes

[smoky rose]

We haven't seen one in a while

[jagged badge]

Yul, Eir and Ur

[midnight nebula]

||we first have to kill witness then we can go after xivu if im corect||

[unreal tulip]

||Would it be possible for xivu to gain powers from them again?||

[jagged badge]

[outer dragon]

||No reset, she is still just as strong. Just can't use the crutch that is her Throne World to avoid a true death. Something that is VERY hypocritical to Hive philosophy and the Sword Logic.||

[jagged badge]

How do you mean?

[midnight nebula]

|| final shape raid is witness so id asume we kill her next expansion||

[jagged badge]

Throne Worlds aren’t hypocritical

[midnight nebula]

||bungie straight up said that final shape raid is witness btw||

[unreal tulip]

||gain back whatever that eris took in the seasonal story ||

[jagged badge]

I mean, she doesn’t necessarily need to be a raid boss for one

[midnight nebula]

true

[jagged badge]

Her making a Throne World has nothing to do specifically with the Worm Gods. And no, she can’t reclaim it

[outer dragon]

They absolutly are. A way to avoid dying when you should have? That goes against the "strong survive, the weak die" to it's core.

[midnight nebula]

||id asume witness is final boss of the raid, mabye xivu is boss of a dungeon next expansion?||

[jagged badge]

If Throne Worlds were against the Sword Logic, the Hive wouldn’t have used them

[outer dragon]

The Hive are hypocrites

See Xivu.

She threw a temper tantrum when Oryx was killed

[jagged badge]

Throne Worlds are a form of resilience against death forged and maintained through strength and death specifically. If anything, that’s the Sword Logic lmao

[tulip knoll]

Already been confirmed the witness is the raid boss for final shape

[midnight nebula]

ah

[tulip knoll]

It’s not a spoiler

[outer dragon]

Instead of going "well he lost so he is weak"

She can't accept the Sword Logic as properly applied in that case and I argue the use of a Throne World to avoid a true death is not accpting the Sword Logic truely

[jagged badge]

[unreal tulip]

What exactly is a throne world then? And they aren't allowed to die in said throne world?

[smoky rose]

A throne world is basically a respawn zone for a hive god

If you die outside of it you respawn there

However

if you die IN the throne world

Perma dead

No coming back

[jagged badge]

A Throne World is a space carved within the Ascendant plane. A kingdom of thought that bends to the whims of the creator

And yeah, what Discus said

[unreal tulip]

Unless they have a ghost/light like savathun?

[tulip knoll]

Won’t happen

[outer dragon]

And this, is why I submit that the Ascendant Hive are hypocrites. Having a place to respawn when they die goes against the Sword Logic as if they lose a fight then they should have died permanently.

[jagged badge]

Indeed

[empty fern]

Savathuns words

[outer dragon]

She is right

[empty fern]

Calling her own sisters hypocrites

[outer dragon]

Just because she is the God of Cunning and Trickery doesn't mean she can't spit pure facts

[smoky beacon]

Yessss

The season’s final mission was interesting

[slender carbon]

since this weeks card from the deck of whispers was "the wish", do you think that savathun meant that using a wish is the way to get into the portal? Mara still has an ahamkara egg right?

[tawdry mauve]

the egg is corrupted

[outer dragon]

It will be interesting to see if Savathun joins us to fight with us at some point during TFS

[meager belfry]

Are emote constructs made from light?

[jagged badge]

Yes

[meager belfry]

So theoretically Savathun and her Lucent hive can also do them

Better see Savathun make a bowl of spicy ramen

[rigid flower]

Is this the first time we've been in a lore book?

[jagged badge]

No

[rigid flower]

First time I've been in one, and its putting Savathun in her place.

[ember storm]

throne worlds are built upon and maintained solely by someone’s ability to perform sword logic

the hive’s immortality is earned

it’s why they view necromancy, and specifically light as heretical

nothing is earned

[chrome fog]

Mmmm Darmk Funtures

[ember storm]

the most sword logic thing you can do is not prove you deserve to exist, but to alter existence itself to adhere to you

[chrome fog]

The Witness is the more pressing matter than the retreating Hive God, yes

[ember storm]

that’s what you do when you establish a throne world

[chrome fog]

Essentially, making existence believe it’s impossible for you to not exist, which the Throneworld perfectly does as a respawn point

[ember storm]

if anything it’s more in line with sword logic

being sent back to a throne world puts you in a corner in a definitive last-stand scenario

[chrome fog]

Look to Mr Kelgorath, who even though he keeps getting his ass beat, insinuates so deeply and thoroughly to the universe he deserves to remain alive that he comes back from his Throneworld, and exit it nigh immediately

[ember storm]

^

the big difference is you yourself being able to defy reality and claim you still deserve to live

instead of just being revived by some necromancer nerd or a weird sentient lightbulb

[chrome fog]

Hell, Mr Taken King himself, trans icon of the eon, might technically be alive and is only himself convinced that he is truly dead

Though, that is highly speculated upon in-universe and has no definitive answer

[ember storm]

Oryx deciding “well shit they fucking got me” and rewriting reality to keep himself dead while everything around him is trying to bring him back is a hilarious concept

but I think he just got hit by a deep freeze and his corpse hasn’t caught onto the fact the brain is done

[chrome fog]

“Ah shit they got me, guess I’m dead” stays dead despite everyone saying he’s still alive

“Fair’s fair in Love-War”

[jagged badge]

A Deep freeze?

[ember storm]

silence

[ember storm]

Toland “YOU WEREN’T SUPPOSED TO DO THAT WAAAAAH” vs Oryx “gg no re”

I still think it’s funny how oryx just tried spamming insta kill spells during his campaign boss

[bold moat]

Do we know how to listen to the remaining 3 radio messages for this season?

[static bluff]

they'll just come out one at a time per week I guess

[ember storm]

havent played yet did we get something like this

[velvet flax]

No but Savathûn did do a funny regarding Immaru

[dim minnow]

not the first time we have been in a lore entry, but it is the first time we spoke in one

[jagged badge]

Unless you count us having dialogue in Chronicon iirc

[ember storm]

i remember the campfire we had with crow and osusris

and we're mentioned in outbreak

[dim minnow]

oh yeah that, well I'm not usre it would count since it is fanfiction

[ember storm]

but i swear there was an old lore tab where we're sitting having tea with ikora or something

i've never been able to find it but i remember it

i need to know whether i gaslit myself or not

[real ingot]

Savathun accidently steps on and breaks Immaru

[dim minnow]

I forgot how informal Savathun speaks a lot of the time

[real ingot]

An attempt at speaking down at us

[ember storm]

no she's just like that

xivu speaks in hymns

oryx is loud and insults everyone

savathun literally says the words "humdinger" and "honey"

[dim minnow]

'R.I.P. Cayde"

[fiery copper]

Savathun the type of woman to call everyone "dahling~"

[real ingot]

"Eris my darli-" stabs her

[ember storm]

remember when savathun took a cryptarch and was just like "hey gorgeous"

[fiery copper]

Yeah that 10 minute fully animated flirting scene between her and Tyra Karn was kinda excessive imo

It was just kinda awkward

[real ingot]

Savathun and Quinn scene when

[regal tree]

So I wonder

How exactly we enter the portal

[dim minnow]

She adds, “The Deck of Whispers cards are associated with chapters of Sororicide, the eighth Book of Sorrow. When a player acquires a card, they are granted another chapter in this lore book. Eris describes the text as an almost transcendental unveiling of herself, Savathûn, and Xivu Arath. The chapters are their inner thoughts, presented as monologues, that have been manifested and transcribed by the cards. It’s Hive magic but drawn directly from the shapes the cards represent.”

[regal tree]

Savathûn tells us she’s already showed us

[regal tree]

So we are gonna play yugioh to defeat the witness

[empty fern]

Yep

[slim elk]

Guess whatever the secret to the portal is... it's in the Imbaru Engine

Can't progress any further in the thing this week

[real ingot]

2 answers is my guess

Osiris' research pulls through

Heirloom is the key

[jagged badge]

“Capisce”

[dim minnow]

in order to get it, the final opague card needs to be unlocked

[terse ingot]

Who created the wish wall?

[dim minnow]

Mara Sov

[terse ingot]

Aight

[dim minnow]

she did to so that she can make wishes without Riven trying to screw her over

[terse ingot]

Gotcha

Thx

[real ingot]

I heard someone try and say Eris severed Xivu's connection because of the 15th wish

I have no idea what mental gymnastics they went through for that

[rigid flower]

Question is now...what are we going to end up doing in the final season then?

[real ingot]

Vex Vex Vex

[rigid flower]

A filler season about Eramis if its all down to Osiris's research?

[real ingot]

and Xivu isn't dead

just

weakened

[rigid flower]

I'm sure Xivu will be saved for Episode 3.

[real ingot]

possible

but she is war

[dim minnow]

from the sounds of it, Bungie doesn't plan on bringing Xivu back into the fold until later on

[real ingot]

She can't rest

Maybe a minor antag

Maybe Eramis and Vex stuff next season

still waiting on those Nessus strikes

[rigid flower]

With the artifact resolving around stasis, I'm sure Eramis will be a big part.

[dim minnow]

Eramis does seem to be the last major pawn the Witness has at this point

[real ingot]

Keep in mind Sav is around

and we're likely getting a finale

[rigid flower]

My guess on the sisters will be in Heresy. Being completely centered around Savathun, Eris, and Xivu.

[real ingot]

Eris is done with Hive power

She rejected it

and lost it all

[rigid flower]

I say Eris since there is a chapter in the lore book that says Savathun still plans on giving Eris to Xivu.

[real ingot]

Keep in mind what Eris did is complete against Savathun's plan

[dim minnow]

I'm pretty sure that chapter is before this happens

[real ingot]

Eris went full off the wall

[rigid flower]

Oh, guess that makes sense.

[dim minnow]

Savathun figured that she can't really beat Xivu Arath since Xivu is way too eager to erase her

but Savthun knew that Eris would be perfect for the task

Xivu would end up walking to her own demise because she got too excited for her new sister

[real ingot]

Sav just didn't expect this shit

She expected both sides weakened

Xivu becoming mortal is massive

[rigid flower]

Wakes up
Compliments a woman on how she looks
Gets throat slit
Wakes up again
Teases
Refuses to elaborate
Leaves

[static bluff]

osmium rizz

[slim elk]

Guessing the final season before Final Shape will be the prep work to get through the portal

We still dont know the actual means to do it

[jagged badge]

Which is funny because according to Savathûn we do and she’s disappointed we’re not clever enough to get it already

So I do wonder what she means

[slim elk]

I'm calling its in the Imbaru Engine

Or.. we just have to get Ghost to poke the Veil again lol

[real ingot]

If it ain't the Heirloom I'm eating a cockroach

[slim elk]

What Heirloom do you type of?

Running the Spire-Altars after Savathun revival has Savathun chime in on what your doing in them lol

[real ingot]

Page 6 of the lorebook

Sav refers to an heirloom in her tapes

[slim elk]

ah

Probably is in the Imbaru engine then

[static bluff]

what if ahamkara wish

[real ingot]

requires an Ahamkara

[static bluff]

wish 15

you can still wish to bones can't you

[slim elk]

Only one with an Ahahkara egg we saw [albeit corrupted] was Mara