📚lore-discussion

[gentle geyser]

Bro stretching disbelief on a white smudge

[empty fern]

You gotta believe

My spinfoil knowledge is immense

[dim minnow]

she really looks more like an acolyte

[south temple]

The hell

Did I miss?

[fresh zephyr]

Is nazerac a tormentor?

[jagged badge]

We don’t really know

It’s possible Nezarec and the Tormentors are one species, but it also possible that Tormentors are creations based off of Nezarec

Osiris’ dialogue in the first mission of LF could imply that

[fresh zephyr]

Why is nazerac called the final god of pain?

[jagged badge]

He likes causing people pain so he picked an edgy title I guess

[fresh zephyr]

Why is the root of nightmares soo... trippy?

I feel like I took a heavy doze of zaza when I'm in it

[jagged badge]

Traveler terraforming process hit the Pyramid

[fresh zephyr]

Oh

So all those plants are made of light?

[jagged badge]

I dunno specifically how it works tbh it but it’s a like a super concentration of when the Traveler uses Light to terraform worlds like it did with Mars and many others in Sol

[sleek hare]

On europa at the beyond what is the big pyramid supposed to be?

The one connected to the campaign there

[jagged badge]

The Pyramid is part of the Witness’ Black Fleet. The Black Fleet is responsible for humanity’s Collapse, the Eliksni’s Whirlwind and countless other genocides for eons and eons of years

[sleek hare]

Oh damnn what's the connection between it and the stasis?

[jagged badge]

Stasis is a power of the Darkness, given to us by the Witness

[sleek hare]

So our guardian can control the power of the darkness without doing what the witness's black fleet did?

[jagged badge]

Darkness is merely a tool the Witness can also use. It only threatened to be corruptive due to the Witness’ influence over Stasis

[sleek hare]

Ah alright
Got it

[jagged badge]

Light and Dark as forces can be used for both good and evil and everything in between depending on the user

When the Witness gave us Stasis, we learned to properly resist the temptation to misuse Stasis

[sleek hare]

What is stasis supposed to be tho? All I know that it looks like ice but it's not really ice
Just the power of darkness?

[jagged badge]

It’s a manifestation of Darkness. Osiris calls it the element of control

https://youtu.be/Him5sU9BRUY?si=c7dBl4IrPrSMKsxS

[blazing wasp]

"Stasis" is a irl word that explains a lot about what it is

[wind belfry]

Im pretty sure the icy aspects of it come from stopping the movement of molecules themself

[blazing wasp]

If I understand it correctly, it doesn't stop something in a way that cold does, its like hitting the pause button on something

[jagged badge]

The “ice” aspect of Stasis is merely because to appeal to Guardians, it had to appear as another harmless elemental flavour of power

[blazing wasp]

If it simply made things stop moving, it would be cold, but has been explicitly stated to not be cold

[jagged badge]

We can see the origins of the Stasis power on Europa, and the concept of a cosmic ice to oppose stellar fire fits very neatly in a certain sort of paradigm. Even that idea of stillness and control suits freezing, a slowness of atoms whether or not it is in truth a power of "ice." There is a certain weight to the perception of an "element."

[jagged badge]

I’m pretty sure that’s not true. Stasis does effect coldness on its environment

[blazing wasp]

Lemme try and find the statement but someone recalled feeling being stasis frozen

Feeling not cold, but "empty", stating that it wasn't cold

[jagged badge]

When the foundry worker advances on Vriiksis and racks another round into the Shotgun, there is a sudden cold snap that fills the air with mist.

[blazing wasp]

Yea but coldsnap is the name for a grenade

[jagged badge]

It’s not referring to the grenade

[blazing wasp]

Ah

Weird

[jagged badge]

It’s referring to how the use of Stasis effects the air in the area

[blazing wasp]

I'm trying find the line on ishtar, someone specifically stated it wasn't cold, but I may be misremembering

[slim perch]

pretty sure there was a lore entry from a guardian in the crucible that got frozen

and he just said it wasnt cold just very empty and lonely

[blazing wasp]

Well, i got this from nimbus at least while looking

"So if I understand this right, it's not actually cold, but it does slow down the movement of atoms? Neat. Bet that'll inconvenience the Shadow Legion." —Nimbus

[jagged badge]

Hmm

Ooh, perhaps I can relay this to Mael for his FAQ project

“Is Stasis cold?”

[blazing wasp]

Yea

If stasis literally functions like irl stasis, itd not actually be cold

[slim perch]

hmm

to be honest

scientifically speaking thats not, really accurate

if your atoms are going slower then you are actually straight up cold

[blazing wasp]

Irl stasis cannot happen as far as I know

[slim perch]

its called absolute zero

iirc

yes

i have recalled correctly

at absolute zero, particles are basically motionless

[jagged badge]

@trim grotto

[blazing wasp]

Something frozen in time wouldn't be cold

Or, not inherently so.

[jagged badge]

Actually I probably should have checked if it’s already on there first

[slim perch]

if your atoms are straight up slowed down you are going to be cold

[jagged badge]

Rip

[blazing wasp]

Yea

But, in the probably impossible scenario where time completely stands still, you wouldn't be colder, because the atoms haven't "stopped moving" in that sense

If time accelerates, everything wouldn't be hotter as a result

[trim grotto]

new phone who dis

[blazing wasp]

Yeah I cannot find the line on ishtar at all

[trim grotto]

oooh yeah?

i'm gonna have to check the DLV for this

[blazing wasp]

Wait, I think I recall stasis also freezing time, or some jank, yea?

[trim grotto]

Nah it's all about energy

[jagged badge]

Is this idle dialogue or a flavour text of a bounty?

[blazing wasp]

Bounty

[jagged badge]

Gotcha

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/items/frozen-in-motion
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/items/cryogenic-hardening

ooh yeah these are great

thanks for pointing those out Uke

[blazing wasp]

Happy to help, byf

[jagged badge]

Is this just a case of inconsistency or did I misinterpret the evidence I used?

Because ngl I do be confused a little bit lmao

[trim grotto]

in what way

[jagged badge]

This

[blazing wasp]

The evidence you showed seems easy to misinterpret

[trim grotto]

Well it's sort of the same thing

[blazing wasp]

The "cold" here could mean a lot

[jagged badge]

For some reason I seem to distinctly remember that I once argued Stasis not being cold but also that I remembered being wrong about it

[trim grotto]

Heat is produced by very active mobile atoms

[jagged badge]

However I could be triple wrong

[trim grotto]

If heat is produced by very active, mobile atoms, then a stiff, immobile atom wouldn't produce any heat. It would be, definitively, cold.

So Stasis is cold because it is a lack of heat, if that makes sense

[blazing wasp]

The thing is, once stasis goes away, it rapidly returns the frozen thing to its pre-frozen state

Making something 0 kelvin and them immediately back to whatever it previously was alone should kill

[trim grotto]

That's where "space magic" handwaving comes into it

[blazing wasp]

I forgot stasis is paracausal

One explanation that supports both sides of evidence shown is that stasis applies cold in a sense

Which you, within regular and boring physics, can't do

And temporarily applies cold to something, like a green light red light to atoms

[bleak fiber]

What was the biggest betrayal of rhulks life

[trim grotto]

The other side of it is that, in theory, Stasis wouldn't conduct heat either

So you, trapped inside, may not in fact feel cold

[blazing wasp]

You wouldn't be able to be if you were under 0 kelvin

[bleak fiber]

Anyone?

[blazing wasp]

You already received an answer

[trim grotto]

That's pretty subjective. I suppose his father issues?

[blazing wasp]

Can't think if the thing that makes you think is currently on hold

[bleak fiber]

Where?

[blazing wasp]

#✨destiny-discussion , you were also asked to elaborate for a better answer because the question was vague

[bleak fiber]

What did rhulk's father do to him?

I researched how powerful he was, not his lore tho 😔

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-shattered-suns
Rhulk's origin is detailed here, in the Shattered Suns lore book.

[bleak fiber]

Thanks

[trim grotto]

Rhulk felt betrayed by his father in a number of ways, such as his father turning back on his hatred of the Regime. Rhulk's aggression had him abandoned by his clan, and eventually captured by the Regime, who his father ended up joining. He then pushed Rhulk into the Abyss that split their world.

[analog torrent]

What is Iron Banner in the lore if it existed pre-Ironsbane (according to the two scraps of Ashraven lore)?

[trim grotto]

I imagine it was similar to what it is now.
The Iron Banner seeks great champions to lead the fight against the Darkness.
Lord Saladin, once Shaxx's mentor, runs the Iron Banner tournaments to strip Crucible weaklings of their illusions and prepare them for a battle with no concept of fair play. The Iron Banner tests a Guardian and the Guardian's gear in a definitive, relentless mock war.

[ember storm]

basically saladin does it in the memory of his fellow iron lords and also because he thinks shaxx's teachings are too lax

[analog torrent]

man they still beefing this long after six fronts lmao

or was it twilight gap

[trim grotto]

Twilight Gap

Which was "decades ago"

That said, this entry from only last season is very relevant.

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/crowning-duologue

[ember storm]

shaxx also mentions they were crimson bonds at one point

so there's that

[fresh zephyr]

So he make crucible with light level on?

[trim grotto]

It actually was, in the past.

[ember storm]

crucible was originally just a thing guardians did for the sake of fighting

now it actually exists as combat drills and training

training which if you're doing so horribly, shaxx will personally interrupt the match by killing you all and detailing what you're doing wrong

[trim grotto]

as one does

[ember storm]

most guardians aren't even at nightfall level so he's always got his plate full

lots of randys to whip into shape

at least 2

[fresh zephyr]

Lol we breeze trough those

And what is Saladins way of running it?

[ember storm]

tough lough

his voice is gravellier

and there's fires

[trim grotto]

Crucible is training. Iron Banner is testing.

[fresh zephyr]

Oooo fire

[ember storm]

he also does a "back in my day" the whole time

about what you'd expect

if you go on a major kill streak he has a coughing fit

[fresh zephyr]

So he just let you fight till you learn yourself

[ember storm]

and references the most critically acclaimed steam game of all time, overwatch

[fresh zephyr]

How So?

[ember storm]

oh you don't know

saladin's va is reaper's va

[fresh zephyr]

Wait

Oh shit that's why his voice is so familiar

I was like
"I feel like I heard this gravy voice somewhere before,but where?"

[ember storm]

also the ronin titan from titanfall 2

and the little blue thing from foster's home

[fresh zephyr]

Alright another question

Explain to me nessus lore

[remote sky]

is it true that listening to shaxx's mixtape while working out improves gains?

[fresh zephyr]

Why is the vex there?

[ember storm]

scientifically

[ember storm]

vex is everywhere they can be

nessus is a real life planetoid in our solar system

we weren't doing anything with it so the vex set up shop

[trim grotto]

The Vex wish to make all of existence Vex. They terraform whatever they come across.
They came across Nessus, nothing else lived there, so they terraformed it.

[remote sky]

it's time.

[fresh zephyr]

There like bozo ants just doing whatever they want

[ember storm]

i see them more as the most advanced infection in existence

they have no motives or leaders

it's just what they do because they've evolved to be good at it

[fresh zephyr]

The vex are never a truly huge a threat
There kinda just there

[ember storm]

multiply and kill everything that's not them

[ember storm]

they're the second biggest threat next to the witness

[trim grotto]

In theory, in lore, they are.
They're just kinda underutilised in game.

[fresh zephyr]

Hive?

[ember storm]

they're scary because they're never all up in our face screaming like I AM THE BANNER OF WAR or whatever\

hive we can just kill

vex will always be here

there's never getting rid of them

they will outlive us

[fresh zephyr]

How?

Is it because of the radiorala?

[trim grotto]

Vex are nigh infinite. They exist across time. They are spread across the universe. They terraform worlds, create new Vex.

Radiolaria is the Vex.

[fresh zephyr]

Idk there kinda portrait to just be goofy ahh robots in game
With them loving rock music's and ofcoruse the thrillerdome

[trim grotto]

jesus christ why is he so big

he's taking up the free real estate of my discord

[ember storm]

he is eternal

[jagged badge]

I’m on mobile so I have no idea what you mean rn lmao

It just looks like a bog standard image on my end

[trim grotto]

large

[ember storm]

show us your taskbar mael

[trim grotto]

[jagged badge]

Fucking hell

[fresh zephyr]

Is rasputin an exo?

[jagged badge]

Nah

Rasputin is a Warmind

An AI designed to control Sol’s military assets

[fresh zephyr]

Is there other warmind?

[jagged badge]

Sorta. Lemme explain

[trim grotto]

For a couple of months. But no.

[ember storm]

pretty shitty warmind if zavala can get inside the deepest part of his complex with zero trouble and catch us off as soon as we open the door

[jagged badge]

So originally in D1, Rasputin was one of a few Warminds. Charlemagne and Malahayati, to name some others. In the Warmind expansion, this was retconned so that those other Warminds were actually subminds of Rasputin

I believe Season of the Seraph tried to balance both of these facts though

As I don’t think the retcon was Bungie’s idea

[trim grotto]

thanks VV

[jagged badge]

Fucking VV

[ember storm]

vvvvv?

hit indie platformer?

buy now on steam

[fresh zephyr]

So the warmind bunker on the moon,that's malahayati?

[jagged badge]

I think so

[fresh zephyr]

Cool

Next question
Who the hell is clovis bray?

I know he made the exo

That's all

[ember storm]

horrible person

billionaire scientist

you can fill in the gaps

[fresh zephyr]

He's that big exo head in the lament quest?

[ember storm]

sort of

when you become an exo, your mind basically gets reset

new person essentially

[jagged badge]

The big Exo head is like an AI replica copying Clovis’ personality

[ember storm]

clovis knew this so he also designed the big head ai as a replica to run things after he became an exo

[fresh zephyr]

I heard some of his dialogue and he is rude af

[jagged badge]

Yeah, to say the least lmao

[fresh zephyr]

To be fair he kinda make exo so we gotta give respects to him for that

[jagged badge]

Clovis is basically a self-confessed misogynist and also potentially kinda racist?

[fresh zephyr]

Segwaying perfectly
How is Cayde alive?

[jagged badge]

We don’t know how Cayde is back in Final Shape

In fact it’s likely he won’t be ‘alive’ again

[fresh zephyr]

Racist to what eliksni?

[ember storm]

waiting for the dlc to come out to find out what happens in the dlc

crazy

[ember storm]

other races

[jagged badge]

Racist as in a human context of racist. Although that could just be his general superiority complex

[fresh zephyr]

Or maybe he's just cade-7 now?
He's an exo ya know

[ember storm]

definitely not

[trim grotto]

Well, no. Since he has his memory.

[jagged badge]

Also the Light effects in his body

[fresh zephyr]

Maybe he just build different

[trim grotto]

*built.
We can't really say anything for sure since it hasn't actually happened yet, but I'm confident that he's still gonna be 6.

[fresh zephyr]

We see ikora in the pale heart of the traveler at the end of season of defiance
Does this mean she currently know cayde is alive?

[trim grotto]

No.

And no, you don't

[jagged badge]

That’s a teaser trailer lmao

[fresh zephyr]

Ah

[jagged badge]

It doesn’t mean it’s already happened

[fresh zephyr]

Thought that's a seasonal cutscence

[jagged badge]

Nah. It was released during Game Awards or something I think

No wait

Playstation showcase thing right?

I can’t remember

[fresh zephyr]

Why the worm god in warming wants to destroy rasputin?

[jagged badge]

Because Rasputin was one of humanity’s biggest superpowers with his arsenal

[trim grotto]

Also because Rasputin was the one that froze it there for centuries.

[jagged badge]

Oh yeah, that too

[trim grotto]

Siberian Entropy

[fresh zephyr]

So he's just pissed

[trim grotto]

Pretty much. Funny Worm wanted to claim Mars, but Big Bad War Robot was on Mars and made Funny Worm cold.

Until eventually the reawakening of the Traveler... somehow... began to thaw Hellas Basin.

[fresh zephyr]

Strand is made cause of nazerac's crashed ship on neomuna right?

[trim grotto]

No.

The Weave has always existed, but the presence of the Veil has made it more prominent. We, in our paracausally attuned state, saw it, manipulated it, and began to wield it as Strand.

[fresh zephyr]

Then what is strand?
It's darkness but how does it came to be?

[trim grotto]

i just

It's our manipulation of the Weave

[jagged badge]

Nezarec’s ship was never by Neptune at all

It crashed on the moon

[trim grotto]

And the one we fought him on was the Witness's Pyramid near Earth

[fresh zephyr]

The fucks the weave

Synthweave?

[trim grotto]

It's a... connec-what no

no

utterly, incredibly unrelated

[fresh zephyr]

I hear weave and think of that

[trim grotto]

The Weave is the connecting paracausal thread - pun intended - between conscious beings that permeates and crosses the entirely of the universe.

Synthweave is a funny fabric we use to make stuff look like other stuff

[fresh zephyr]

Ada 1 says its "important research " but let's be honest she just doing it cause its fun

[jagged badge]

Fashion is important as fuck

[fresh zephyr]

True true

[trim grotto]

She hands you a sample of the Loom's output.

"Do the honors of trying it out. It should be able to replicate the physical appearance of some of your armor, though not the material or energy properties."```

[fresh zephyr]

Wonder how it actually works?

It's just a layer of yarn that can do funny stuff right?

Ah another question

Why did the drifter run gambit?

[trim grotto]

Ada-1: Incredible. I felt confident in my interpretation of their schematics, but to see it actually working is something else entirely. When I used to think about the Armory, about my responsibility to it, the weight was almost unbearable. Even in this body, I felt like I could never get enough air. Now, for the first time in a long awhile, I feel... relieved. And eager. The Synthweave produced by this prototype won't provide combat effectiveness, but I will continue to explore possible applications. Perhaps Ikora could use it for disguising her Hidden... with more tensile strength, it could reduce maintenance time on Redjack — I... I don't know what discoveries lie ahead, but I'm eager to find them. Thank you, Guardian. I can't express what this means to me. Now, shall we give it a try? ```

[trim grotto]

Technically speaking, we both do and do not know.

It has a few levels.

We do know that Drifter and Shin used it to teach Guardians about using the Darkness for their own power without falling to corruption.
Also, Drifter used it to gather power for his doomsday prepping.

[little gorge]

yes

[fresh zephyr]

Uhhh

How does dropping pyramids into a tube controlling darkness?

[trim grotto]

You may have noticed being imbued with the power of the Taken when you invade.
Plus, the whole Malfeasance (and Thorn) quest(s).

[fresh zephyr]

Ahh

And the doomsday preping?

[trim grotto]

We don't know much detail about that. But given that the Black Fleet and Witness and Hive Gods are literally here, he's clearly given up on that. Grown as a person, so it were.

He's here to help.

[fresh zephyr]

Bro goes "no preping gonna save me from that"

[rigid flower]

Shower thoughts:

Is it safe to say Nezarec is a master of psychic and telepathic abilities, but when it comes to a physical fight he's just a joke?

Yeah, its a lazy way to right off RoN being easy, but he also did lose to Savathun in the past.

[blazing wasp]

He coulve been easy because he was, physically, basically an infant, and was also given a effective and firm "fuck off" by both light and dark

He was physically reborn like actual seconds before we fought him

If not immediately when we fought him

[fresh zephyr]

Naazerac is physically weak

But he still have a giant scythe and is 10 feet tall sooooo...

[outer dragon]

I want BA tech brought back. Ada's stance not withstanding, i feel like Eliksni and Vex HAVING BA tech is an interesting seasonal story.

[trim grotto]

What would Vex do with BA tech?

[outer dragon]

Nessus

They were attacking one of the forges there

[trim grotto]

I recall. I don't think they'd do a huge amount with it though.

[outer dragon]

It could be used to make weapons or strengthen their chassis for combat

[trim grotto]

They have a star forge

[outer dragon]

I know, I think the Eliksni having BA tech is more interesting but the Vex do possibly have BA tech

So it could be explained that, the Vex examined the BA tech but left it in place and the Eliksni scavengered it

[trim grotto]

Scourge of the Past 2, Electric Boogaloo

[outer dragon]

YUUUP

I proudly wear my Blacksmith title

[broken zephyr]

what happened to Nezarec that put him in the Witness's Pyramid?

[trim grotto]

Witness collected his head.

[broken zephyr]

from where though, I havent played long enough to know to where Nezarec even came from to begin with

I only knew of him because he became relevant in Lightfall again

[trim grotto]

The Luna Pyramid was Nezarec's Pyramid.

He led the charge during the Collapse

[fierce dune]

Is there any lore reason as to how titan came back

[trim grotto]

Actually, no, not explicitly. We think it's because of the RoN planets encounter, but we really don't know.

[fierce dune]

I got a dork on Reddit saying that the veil did it to reverse the witness bullshittery lol he questioned why we would release just titan and not the other planets

(I’m saying dork jokingly)

[trim grotto]

Uhh
Yeah that's a hell of a theory but it's nothing more than that

[fierce dune]

Lmao I figured

[safe galleon]

i assume that with the witness gone, and the explicator dead, there's no-one to exert influence over the taken planets, so whatever space magic bullshittery that's keeping them hostage has just like... naturally broken down

as for why only titan has released? if you left a machine, say like, a car completely abandoned for long enough, all the systems wouldn't necessarily fail all at once. there'd be a proverbial 'first to go'

[ember storm]

kinda off topic, but it’s confusing me how many people are confused on where Savathun has been getting her prisoners for altars

like, tormentors I can understand being confused by, but I’m not talking about that

people are confused Savathun has vex?

when for years the most important thing about her was owning a taken vex?

[empty fern]

Splicer moment

[fresh zephyr]

For someone that lead the charge of mankind's collapse he get his ass kicked pretty easily

[jagged badge]

I mean, it’s not like Nezarec was in combat then

He was just causing disasters and shit

[fresh zephyr]

Also I noticed he looks like from neck down only his muscle is visible

There's no skin

Is it cause he just got revived?

[smoky rose]

That's not his original body

It might be a copy of it but his body was dismantled by the fallen

[rich veldt]

and im 99% sure she knows how to open vex portals

[lofty cape]

reading some searph stuff (my fav stuff) what are the chances we see AURORA SACRIFICE done?

or Loki Crown

[outer dragon]

Zero

LOKI CROWN was the contingency plan for the Traveler leaving that was never used

[lofty cape]

not even in a Witness takes the travler?

[outer dragon]

Also missed that you said Aurora Sacrifice
We saw that live during Sereph as part of the end of Season mission

[lofty cape]

oh, I was off and on at the end of that season so maybe I forgot or missed it

[outer dragon]

All good

[lofty cape]

any protocols likely?

[outer dragon]

If, and that is a big if, there is a working sub-mind that was isolated from the network then MAYBE

[lofty cape]

fair

I wish to see the black armory and seraph stuff. I know it's unlikcly but i Have hope

[outer dragon]

You can still visit the Forge sites on Nessus and in the EDZ

Just not do the activity

[lofty cape]

how?

[outer dragon]

Im at work right now but there are ways, i would suggest checking YouTube

[lofty cape]

will do

I have a wish that ana goes full on arms dealer for final shape

or what about Soteria? or the chance the dog has more then poems

[outer dragon]

Soteria is asleep in the Cloud Ark as part of Neomuna. So unless we want to rip them out of there and possibly do irreparable damage to the Cloud Ark and its citizens, I doubt it will be part of the story at large

[lofty cape]

fair, the striders would NOT like that

makes me wonder about Clovis then or the Europa labs

[outer dragon]

Clovis is an egomaniac, he might help us for a price but we learned during Sereph that he intended to destroy the Traveler and use Rasputin to control the Solar System with him as "God"

So trusting him is wma worse idea than doing what Savathun wants

Not that we really have a choice with Savathun's plans but the point stands

[lofty cape]

her would be better then clovis at this point

i'd imagine clovis would want the cloudark however

then there's Ada-1

not sure why the reason is she went from arms dealer to fashion designer

[real ingot]

Forges were destroyed during arrivals

[lofty cape]

ah

why not rebuild?

[jagged badge]

In fairness, Synthweave has a massive amount of potential, practical use she wants to research and help with

[jagged badge]

Stolen

[lofty cape]

so like a moldable source?

pure matter into anything/

[jagged badge]

[lofty cape]

found my own answer

"She repurposed parts of the original Forge technology created by the Black Armory[5], theoretical knowledge regarding materials from Clovis Bray, and took inspiration from the weavers of the Eliksni to create a device that would allow the re-purposing of basic matter into other forms as needed."

seems the tech is there just not used that way yet

[dim minnow]

stolen implies that they are still intact

I think ransacked would be a more proper term

[jagged badge]

I thought I remembered that the forges were literally somehow “stolen”

I dunno how it works lmao, I didn’t play Black Armory or Arrivals

[dim minnow]

in Black Armory, we were pretty much both defending the forges from either being destroyed or used against us and using them ourselves to make weapons

according to the Pathfinding lore book, when Ada had some guardians escort her to one of the Forge sites (I think Bergusia), the forge was gone with only a little bit of scrap from it remaining

basically, the Vanguard was too focused with evacuations from Mercury, Mars, Titan, and Io to send guardians to protect the forges

so it can be assumed that the Fallen, Cabal, and Vex that plagued the forge sites were able to destroy/salvage the forges since they were unprotected

[slim elk]

Just really is Bungie making a quick excuse why they arent around.

After all, part of Black Armory itself was Fallen actually managing to produce their own knock off Black Armory equipment. If the groups were able to disassemble the Forges would think you would see the tech utilized

[dim minnow]

not really knockoff if they are using the forges

and I'm not sure if Black Armory tech could be easily utilized anymore

they probably know at this point if they try to use it themselves, then they become a target for us

and other than the forges, there isn't any more Black Armory stuff other than what Ada has in the tower

[slim elk]

Flip side of it..
heh, just shows Guardians never seem to secure... anything

Could have stripped and reassembled the forges ourselves in the Last city

[dim minnow]

other things got in the way sadly

Pyramids pulling up forced our hand

[jagged badge]

Yeah Guardians are already stretched thin

[slim elk]

Just thinking of how it seems like a bit of a flaw
Hell, look at our current situation. We have Ikora straight up threatening to "box up" Immaru... and we dont have a reason why we havent done that
Despite having a secured area in the Throne World itself, with every means and reason to do it...

Even handles the Savathun question a bit as well, we strap Immaru with a killswitch the Witch Queen is gonna be a little bit careful if she trys to inevitably backstab us

[dim minnow]

I'd chalk that up to the issue of "too many what-ifs"

[slim elk]

Is rare for Bungie to have a case where a better action is acknowledged in verse... but no reason given why it itsnt followed up on

Especially when the "alliance" is so fragile the Player Guardian started squeezing Immaru for mouthing off

[outer dragon]

The BA tech being in the hands (claws?) of the Eliksni is an interesting story line to hit.
Vex possibly assimilating the tech into forward scouts would be interesting too

[dim minnow]

Fallen already tried messing with BA tech, we put them down hard for it

and the Vex aren't really known for taking other's stuff

unless it's something liek Sword Logic or the BGH

[outer dragon]

Given we have been distracted with Lucent Hive and Calus, it is not unreasonable to expect something from the Eliksni with the tech. And the Vex were attacking Gonfannon for some reason beyond gameplay

[ember storm]

i mean it was alien tech in their turf

they're not going to let it stand

[slim elk]

They actually seemed interested in the tech itself

It was sitting on their turf for hundreds of years lorewise

[ember storm]

they left random assorted bits of the exodus black on there for hundreds of years too

afaik the forges were only reactivated when BA started

[outer dragon]

Yeah, it wasn't until it was activated that they cared

[ember storm]

so it'd just be a hunk of metal sitting there

[slim elk]

Ah

Yeah, we do also need something to handle the last season pre Final Shape as well

if ths season is gonna off Xivu and Savathun comes clean... we need prep work maybe?

[empty fern]

I think whatever savathun tells us this season will directly lead to final shapes entrance, then the 4th season can be loose ends for the dlc launch

[dim minnow]

I'm getting the feeling that this season ends with something bad happening and we are back at square one

only for Osiris to come in with the clutch next season

[empty fern]

Ah yes

Oh yea

Just how many ships and sparrows did marcus appear in?

[outer dragon]

That feels like a cop-out

[empty fern]

[dim minnow]

Marcus Ren?

hmmm

well he also appeared in a Ghost Shell lore tab

[empty fern]

Oh those too

[slim elk]

"loose ends"
Eramis

Shes the only active darkness figurehead left if we off Xivu

[empty fern]

Kek

Another fallen season

[slim elk]

only other reasonable angle is the witness actually causing tangible effects with the traveler that we need to negate

Like the Final Shape trailer having Ghost having weird "crack" in his orb

[dim minnow]

counting:
14 sparrows
4 ships
2 lore book pages
2 exotic armor pieces (Stompies and Frosties)
1 Grimoire card
Mentioned in-game by Cayde in Ace in the Hole
Several armor pieces in both D1 and D2
Several bounties/quest steps in both games

not sure if I missed any

[empty fern]

Damn

If only marcus delivered sparrow racing to d2

[analog torrent]

Post-TFS we need a season bringing Marcus into the fold and reintroducing srl 💯

[dim minnow]

good chance to explore what the hell Didi was on when she wrote Oryx the Nightmare Daddy

[slim elk]

Marcus is outrunning the plot.. literally

Raced away from his Nightmares

Actually..
Lore thought, what does it take to make a Throne World collapse?

Crotas survived despite his killing straight in there long enough for us to steal his soul circa Taken King

[worn kernel]

I left D1 too early to experience SRL, But I remember watching videos of it a few times. An SRL themed season would be epic.

[ember storm]

crota seems to have semi-fused it with the hellmouth

[fiery copper]

It's implied that the public event payload cart could do it, or at least it's very bad

[ember storm]

well savathun's throne world is a unique case

it was actively rotting after she died at the end of lost, but she rebuilt and reshaped it with light

[devout vine]

Wouldn't it just involve binding one self to the laws of the sword logic?

It would definitely create a throne world of the deceased

Hiraks did

[ember storm]

the resonance payloads are basically just being transported for scorn attacks on the wellspring

[devout vine]

And he's eliksni using tech to mind bend the hive

[ember storm]

which is what's holding the throne world together

[fiery copper]

Hiraks is an edge case with literally nothing else in lore supporting anything he did

[ember storm]

the public event is just scorn preparing and transporting the payloads

[slim elk]

yeah, just had the question given we.. never really seen it happen despite all logic.
Eris is likely creating one as a side effect of the current activites

[fiery copper]

He fell into the hellmouth and got a hive witch gf, and came back out with a funny shaped head.

[ember storm]

they're only effective in terms of throne world destruction at the wellspring

the public event is us destroying them before they can be brought there

[ember storm]

not the case really

he just stole chitin and grafted it onto himself

[devout vine]

But what about the throne world he got from Caydes death?

[fiery copper]

It's close enough and it's funny and those are my priorities

[ember storm]

also the broodmother was from the mini-dreadnaught ship that crashed in the reef following the taken war

[fiery copper]

Again, he's one of two people who aren't hive and built a throne world on sword logic, and the second one is an arrogant asshole who spends his free time hanging out in a 4 year old destination

[slim elk]

Theres also maras throne world..
Can she utilize it now with it being trashed and infested with a hive in the 3 week curse?

[fiery copper]

Yes

[ember storm]

she's been killed repeatedly since

[fiery copper]

Allegedly

[ember storm]

her throne world is her little throne room you'd see in queen's court visits

[fiery copper]

ALLEGEDLY she blew up a pyramid ship with Eris, during which she died and Eris had to summon her back

[slim elk]

Uhh... wasnt it actually the dungeon space?

[fiery copper]

Elusynia is her throne world

I think the queens court is a pocket inside elusynia

[ember storm]

previously

[fiery copper]

Could be wrong

She hid the doorway behind a moving bookcase and oryx didn't think to look there

[slim elk]

Yeah it is.. the dungeons even called "shattered throne"

[ember storm]

the location marker for queen's court says unknown space

[fiery copper]

Yes

Ahh

[ember storm]

she's not in eleusinia anymore

the entire point of the dungeon is that it's been raided and isn't usable

[fiery copper]

It is accessed through the oracle engine though, so it's definitely some ascendant plane bs

[ember storm]

it's shattered

[slim elk]

Had a fridge thought happen
if we cant beat Xivu conventionally... could it be possible to seal her inside her own throne world and let her starve?

[ember storm]

you can't really do that

[slim elk]

Not sure.. but had the thought that could be the "trick" this season.
Get Xivu in a position where she isnt dead.. but cut off from accessing her tithes

Let the worm handle the rest

[ember storm]

no we're just powering up eris so she can kill her directly

no more having to deal with destroying her armies empowering her and all that nonsense

[slim elk]

And the big deal this season is... that we cant fight her due to her powering up from it
With the Hive Gods killing each other out of love constantly

[ember storm]

"killing each other out of love" was still literally killing

it's not like guardians in crucible

they actively had wars with each other that had actual lasting effects and consequences

[slim elk]

Yeah, still come back from it.. so even doing that is a temporary solution at best

[ember storm]

a disagreement between one of oryx's and xivu's knights is directly responsible for Crota's death

[ember storm]

i think you're missing the point

it's not going to be temporary

this is the sole thing we're focusing on

all 3 of the osmium court siblings just passingly fought while they were out conquering the universe

and none of them fought directly

we are specifically empowering eris so she's so strong she can just go right to xivu and face her

[slim elk]

Thats where my disagreement comes in
From sounds of it Savathun wants a perma kill on Xivu before spilling the beans. Which means going to her throne world itself [and her armies] before battleing

[ember storm]

the seasonal trailer has a massive rupture in a unique arena with xivu's narration in the background

she's going

[slim elk]

Yeah, just feel its not gonna be a straightforward kill like that

As you said, the tithing structure was disrupted to let Guardians have a chance to kill oryx and crota

[ember storm]

the entire point of this season is we're not doing it that way

[slim elk]

Yeah, just powering up Eris utilizing the most straightfoward interpretation of sword logic... that Xivu specializes in

[and massive millenia long headstart]

Just not sure will be that easy

[ember storm]

considering the only sign of hive related activity post-final shape is headed with "HERESY" i'm pretty confident xivu's not going to be sticking around

[slim elk]

I'm not diagreeing Xivu is gonna get offed lol
Just thinking that beating Xivu literally at her own game... isnt in the cards

[worn kernel]

I almost feel bad for her on the aspect of siblings. She's the youngest of the trio and is pretty much alone. Now it's like she's trying to find some weird way of kinship with Eris based on what I got from this week's activity. Kinda reminds me of a coping mechanism.

[slim elk]

That is pretty much it, Eris is becoming a "new sister" in her view

The other 2 Gods either turning traitor or getting offed in a way that violated the sword logic

If this goes the way Waltz says, then Sword Logic be upheld by a straight fight between them... winner take all

[worn kernel]

Mmhmm. All the while, my guardians will only have one question in Xivu'Arath's regard..."Can we turn her into a weapon?"

[slim elk]

The issue i find is that Bungie is repeatedly drilling straight fight with Xivu=bad idea

yet thats the endgame with the present course

Yet.. it can be exploited. Thats a fight Xivu has to show for.. both for greeting her new family in classic Hive fashion and upholding the sword logic

.. it can be a trap. The issue is what can we do to take down a war god

[final geyser]

wait, the crota weapons are weapons of sorrow?

[trim grotto]

Just Necrochasm

[final geyser]

i just tested it and word of crota gets the ae buff from necrotic grips

[trim grotto]

As in, it spreads poison ad infinitum if it continues to get kills?

[fresh zephyr]

It kinda works like that with the explosions chaining

[trim grotto]

That's a different interaction. The Necrotic Grips interaction is unique to that

[dim minnow]

we know the word of Crota exists, but what exactly is that word?

[trim grotto]

I imagine it's something along the lines of law. Word is law, rather than a literal word.

[dim minnow]

no, I think that word is...

[trim grotto]

No

Don't do it

[dim minnow]

hmmm

it's on the tip of my tongue

[trim grotto]

don't do it Dova

[dim minnow]

relating to something avian

have you heard of it?

[trim grotto]

dova

[dim minnow]

it was my understanding that you have heard?

[ember storm]

good morning

[trim grotto]

[dim minnow]

hey, have you heard?

[ember storm]

heard the word?

not sure

[dim minnow]

BIRD BIRD BIRD

BIRD IS THE WORD

BIRD BIRD BIRD

BIRD IS THE WORD

[trim grotto]

NOOI

[dim minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/family-guy-peter-griffin-bird-funny-song-gif-4392525

[ember storm]

it's 1:30 in the morning

[trim grotto]

[ember storm]

should i go to bed y/n

[trim grotto]

Yee

[trim grotto]

Banned
Banned from D2cord
Banning you from Cryptarchy too and you're not even in it

[rich veldt]

rip dova

[ember storm]

Yee is not an option

should i go to bed

y/n

[trim grotto]

Yeeee

[ember storm]

Yeeee is not an option

[trim grotto]

Yeeeeet

[rich veldt]

y/n

[rich veldt]

do you keep posting these shit ass power scalling matchups? also tf is that model for 'xivu'

[trim grotto]

That's wacky fanart

Honestly fights like these are so contextual and situational that there isn't a clear winner in 80% of them

This is no exception

[rich veldt]

thats just any power scalling

[real ingot]

WE LOVE POWERSCALING

[royal adder]

is it actually said when the traveller revived savathun? cause it could have been before it came to us

[real ingot]

after she died

Between the end of S15 and 16

a 1 week period

[rigid flower]

Actual Xivu.

[little gorge]

what a charming lady, i sure hope she doesn't wage war upon multiple civilizations

[rigid flower]

[sonic wing]

All i want is more moss-2 lore

The witness can wait, what is moss-2 up to

[rich veldt]

immaru rezzed her not the traveller, there is a cutscene from witch queen that shows her dying giving a monologue while looking at the last city from a cliff after the events of the end of s15,

https://youtu.be/jlzQnXcUxqI?si=aG145BvdsnFxvtPZ

the to be chosen cutscene specifically

[rare vale]

Good afternoon lorechat

[grizzled zinc]

Xivu arath is canonically mountain sized

She dwarfs cabal cities

[trim grotto]

That's referencing a painting.

[grizzled zinc]

Rhulk did turn off the suns of tenebrae tho

[grizzled zinc]

Ye

I don’t see any reason to question this though

It seems very plausible given xivu draws power from war

[trim grotto]

Her presence dwarfed the City, but that may not mean that she literally did, physically. She seems adept at projecting her power.

Inkblots are a bit like the Grimoire. There's a little bit of leeway as to how literal they may be.

[grizzled zinc]

Oh

That art existed before the cutscene

[trim grotto]

That too.

[jagged badge]

For a grimoire anthology page

[grizzled zinc]

It’s concept art for xivu’s raid on torobatl

[trim grotto]

Not concept art

Grimoire art

*Anthology art, specifically

[grizzled zinc]

I was unaware

[jagged badge]

Don’t hold your breath for that

[grizzled zinc]

[jagged badge]

The community has severely overblown the “turned into a weapon” thing

[grizzled zinc]

I want xivu arath as a sidearm

[trim grotto]

That is true. The amount of enemies we ourselves turned into a weapon is actually quite small.

[grizzled zinc]

If at first you do not succeed, it is only when you have turned your enemy into a fucking gun that you will have succeeded - sun tzu

[jagged badge]

I can literally already see it now. People getting mad when we don’t turn Xivu or the Witness into guns

[grizzled zinc]

I want the witness as a fusion rifle

[safe galleon]

i thought hive magic could do lots of fucky stuff like changing someone's size? oryx being massive for instance

[jagged badge]

Mael isn’t dismissing the idea, just pointing out it isn’t necessarily the case

[safe galleon]

yeah i know i'm just asking

[trim grotto]

Oryx was within his Throne World, if you're referring to King's Fall.
But, yes, a sufficiently powerful Ascendant Hive such as Xivu may be able to manipulate her physical form.

After all...
She knew why, of course. It was why she'd waited so long before giving the evacuation order in Torobatl. Why she'd been mesmerized by the towering form of Xivu Arath crushing thousands of years of civilization beneath her chitin boots.

[grizzled zinc]

That was possible because he was in his ship, i imagine Xivu just IS THAT FUCKING HUGE

[safe galleon]

wait so if a hive god made themself massive in their throne world, would they revert upon exiting it?

[trim grotto]

Usually I'd say no. Oryx's Throne World is unique in that it was inverted into the material world, too.

[ember storm]

hm

[tawdry mauve]

whats the implication of savathuns "when people we love get on well together" or whatever

refering to us and xivu

[jagged badge]

I mean, that’s just Savathûn being sarcastic

[tawdry mauve]

aw man

thought she liked us

[outer dragon]

Savathun probably doesn't hate us. She knows we aren't bad or anything

[jagged badge]

I mean, she still had her Hive attack and kill Guardians, steal their Light and she was also A-okay with leaving us to inevitable extinction so

[outer dragon]

That was before she knew the truth though right?

[jagged badge]

If you mean the Witness memory we revealed to her, even when we showed her that she still tried to go ahead with her ritual and her plan, and still tried to kill us

[outer dragon]

Because she was in denial

[ember storm]

you know she really wasn’t happy with us when we were telling her the truth

hive origin aside we personally ruined the one thing Savathun’s been setting up for like 1000s of years

[jagged badge]

Why would that memory change her plan or perception of us anyway?

[ember storm]

I’d be surprised if she doesn’t despise us in any way

[outer dragon]

We 100% sure this Eris god stuff is a trap?

[ember storm]

what

[outer dragon]

Because if not then she doesn't hate us and wants to help

[jagged badge]

They mean how this was Savathûn’s idea

[ember storm]

do you not understand the idea of “the enemy of my enemy”

you don’t have to like them at all when a larger threat is in the picture

[jagged badge]

She doesn’t want to help. She wants to use us to kill Xivu or die trying

[ember storm]

she doesn’t want to help at all

she knows we’re desperate and is just using that for us to get rid of Xivu

Xivu is an obvious problem and Savathun needs her dead

we’re doing that for her

why would she sabotage us in the thing she wants us to do

[outer dragon]

IDK man, I don't think she fully hates us. I think at worst she dislikes us

[jagged badge]

Does the distinction matter when she wants to leave us to die off?

[outer dragon]

I mean i guess not

[ember storm]

you know it makes her a worse person when she’s completely indifferent to condemning us to extinction instead of purposefully doing it right

[tawdry mauve]

she is a hive god after all

billions of years old

[slim elk]

There's a few interesting quotes from Savathuns recordings this season on the matter

Claiming would like to share the results of her stuff.. but got too much "provincial morality" to listen

Or as Immaru put it "like omelets but don't like breaking eggs"

At this point Sword Logic use was the only clear "line" Guardians weren't crossing.. and we definitely thrown that out the window in making our own Hive God out of Eris

[jagged badge]

I mean, have we really crossed any lines? We’re doing what we’ve always done. Killing the enemies of humanity

We are not actually adhering to every aspect of the flawed Sword Logic philosophy

[slim elk]

Yep
That's why Immaru-Savathun sorta are calling us hypocritical
We do enjoy the fights..

About 8 years ago using the Darkness would have been heretical

Now look what the Vanguard is doing

[jagged badge]

Ah, if Immaru and Savathûn are saying it, they must be correct

[slim elk]

The best lies are ones filled with truth lol

And.. we have changed quite a bit over the last few years

Obvious play is trying to make Player Guardians to take orders from Savathun-Immaru over the Vanguard

[jagged badge]

I still don’t see how us having to fight our enemies to protect humanity from invaders looking to kill us makes us hypocrites

[slim elk]

Hence the lie part of it heh

Or as Saint put it
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2VmJtt7derk&pp=ygUgRGVzdGlueSAyIHNhaW50IHllbGxzIGF0IG1pdGhyYXg%3D

It's probably Savathuns play in trying to get guardians under her direction

Better to have the guys that can kill her under her employment then risk a repeat act lol

[trim grotto]

Xol took it upon himself to imbue his power unto us. This power took the form of the demiurge of the Guardian- a perfect rifle.

[coarse gyro]

Ok so I am trying to make a list of all the armor and weapons made from the corpses of our enemies to farm. Can you let me know as many as you can?

[coarse gyro]

So it's a semi-alive rifle gifted to us for slaying him?

[trim grotto]

It wanted the sword proof, the single proof. It wanted to become a rule which divided the mighty living from the mighty dead. So it whispered the Anthem Anatheme, the temptation to dominate the objective universe with the subjective will. It said, I shall be an engine to make your desire hegemon over your conditions. It said, WIELD ME, AND USE ME TO TEST YOUR FOE. This was its worship. Aiat.
This does not mean Xol is alive within Whisper, but rather his power became the form of that which he coveted most. A perfect weapon with which we may test the universe.

As per his beloved Sword Logic

[trim grotto]

Hmm. We've got some leeway there, but let's see.

Arguably, there's all of the Ahamkara exotics. While we didn't make them, other Guardians did, from the Great Hunt. Young Ahamkara's Spine, Sealed Ahamkara Grasps, Bones of Eao, Claws of Ahamkara, Skull of Dire Ahamkara...

[coarse gyro]

Ahamkara creep me out more than any other creature because they know they are fictional, they are aware of the player, and they want out.

Would the altars of sorrows weapons fit into the corpse forged weapons category?

[trim grotto]

I wouldn't say so. They appear to be covered in chitin, but chitin can be sloughed off.

[slim elk]

Titans literally carved apart the War priest and used his remains as armor circa Taken King

We technically use Oryx heart in the Touch of Malice

[trim grotto]

By a similar note, there's Thorn. While Rose existed as a normal gun, it began its transformation into Thorn when a shard of Hive bone was grafted onto it.

Our Thorn, however, is not made the same way.

Parasite exists, though that isn't a corpse, of course.
Hierarchy of Needs also exists, but Soteria is damaged, not dead. She lives on in the bow.

[coarse gyro]

I love parasite because sometimes in different activities the worm talks to you.

[trim grotto]

Also sometimes when just wandering around the Throne World.

[coarse gyro]

It makes me love using it on my solar titan.

[trim grotto]

Touch of Malice has a piece of Oryx's heart in it, though he doesn't live on through it, thankfully.

Xenophage is powered by Omar Agah, a Hunter of Eris's fireteam. His soul is in that little insect encased in amber there.

He isn't technically dead though.

[blazing wasp]

Anger propelled munitions

[trim grotto]

Osteo Striga is crafted through unknown means by a crazed Warlock who studied Thorn.
Somehow, she was able to feed Osteo. Feed it bones from some murdered man's rib cave.

[jagged badge]

Ooh, a delicacy

[trim grotto]

Delicate Tomb may or may not have a relic of Nezarec in it.

Relic being body part

Anyway I'm heading to sleep but hopefully that helps a bit, @coarse gyro

I'm sure there's more but I'm tired

[outer dragon]

Titans don't have Ahamkara armor

Big sadge

[trim grotto]

That isn't necessarily a bad thing

The bones whisper

[outer dragon]

I know, just kinda feels bad man to left out

[tawdry mauve]

titans also outright reject them

so lore wise it wouldnt make much sense

[blazing wasp]

Titans are the paladins of d2

Paladin barbarian multiclass

[outer dragon]

Explain
Shaxx has a whole ass skull

[tawdry mauve]

im talking about the whispers

they dont really mean much to titans i guess

[outer dragon]

So Titans have the strongest minds

Fuck yeah

[tawdry mauve]

Titans are not tempted by their offers

p much

[void kettle]

Nah titans just don't understand the words from eating too many crayons

[outer dragon]

So the egg Mara had is corrupted, right? Think she wants to hatch it?

[outer dragon]

Nah, too strong will to give into a parasite

[ember storm]

says who

Saladin very much wished to an ahamkara when fighting one

[tawdry mauve]

yeah to just kill it lmfao

do you think the ahamkara was trying to tempt it into having it kill it?

[ember storm]

that is quite literally the end goal for almost every ahamkara yes

[tawdry mauve]

the sunbreakers also completely reject the ahamkaras

[ember storm]

that leads them directly to the some of the most powerful and most greedy people in existence

[rare vale]

Howdy

[ember storm]

the sunbreakers are dead so who’s the real winner

[tawdry mauve]

the red legion

which killed them

[ember storm]

majority died during their little tantrum surrounding Osiris

the red legion just picked the rest off

[outer dragon]

The Guardian is a Sunbreaker

Sooo

[ember storm]

are you really going to play that card

[outer dragon]

[ember storm]

because that’s semantical as shit

and also only matters if you’re on a Titan character

last time I booted the game I played warlock your point is invalid

[languid gulch]

Who is our guardian is he canon

[outer dragon]

I mean, sure if your PC isn't a Titan they aren't

[ember storm]

the game’s story wouldn’t exist without the character existing

[languid gulch]

Do they have a name

[ember storm]

Guardian, Young Wolf, Hivebane, Kingslayer

also whatever you want to make up

that’s the point of having a blank slate character

[stable monolith]

So now Eris is a Hive god, does she have a throne world?

[jagged badge]

I believe this is currently uncertain

[blazing wasp]

Hive don't get a throne world by default when they're strong iirc

Throne worlds aren't hive exclusive either

None of their magical stuff is

[ember storm]

Eris isn’t planning on being a hive god full time

and a throne world only helps with that

[safe galleon]

'sunbreaker' titans aren't literally sunbreakers though are they. they just use the same fighting style and armaments. i never swore an oath or anything i just said 'heehoo hammer moment'

oh wrong post 💔

[ember storm]

this day will be remembered

[safe galleon]

anyway point stands

being a 'sunbreaker' doesnt mean 'being affiliated with the sunbreakers as an alliance of guardians'

[tawdry mauve]

i mean our guardian did kinda learn the ways of sunbreakers directly from them no?

[outer dragon]

Yes and no

[worn kernel]

Sunbreakers would be excellent cooks.

[torpid flint]

Warlock superiority

[ember storm]

it was hardly an official initiation

[outer dragon]

I mean, they literally lit the Forge and whatnot

But yeah, im a bit tongue-in-cheek in saying the Guardian is a Sunbreaker

I know the Guardian is a blank slate insert character

[fresh zephyr]

I don't think we're lightbearers anymore.

I think we're crossbreeds

[real ingot]

We still use light

Therefore liightbearers

[slim elk]

Primarily use light yeah
Darkness be inate with stasis...

[outer dragon]

Lightbearer is a generic term

[rich veldt]

lightbearer is literally someone who bears the light

we still have the light, so we are still a lightbearer

[outer dragon]

We are Guardians
And that term has evolved as we have grown in understanding of the powers of Light and Dark

[rich veldt]

you might be, im more in it for the loot

[devout vine]

Literal definition of....
Hand yo shii over

[outer dragon]

Oh i have no qualms about running Oryx/Crota/Atheon/Rhulk/Nezzy/Sanctified Mind's pockets either

Just clarifing all Guardians are not simply Lightbearers

[empty fern]

Wait what

I know all lightbearers aren’t all guardians, but the other way around? Was Amanda a guardian?

[ember storm]

no

"all guardians are not simply lightbearers" just means some guardians are well equipped with darkness nowadays

[outer dragon]

Guardians protect the City. It has nothing to do with Paracausality. Hawthorne is a Guardian as recognized by Zavala during the Red War

[outer dragon]

There are "normal" humans called Guardian by Zavala

Hawthorne

Would probably call Amanda a Guardian

[ember storm]

nobody cares about hawthorne

[outer dragon]

I would call Mithrax a Guardian

[outer dragon]

It still established a precedent

[real ingot]

Yeah but it was mainly to shut her up

she hasn't been briefed on anything since then

[outer dragon]

You misread that whole dynamic if that is your take on it

[real ingot]

No I'm just joking because she hasn't gotten anything new since Red War

[outer dragon]

[shadow warren]

She’s the lw vendor now ig

[worn kernel]

She's the only individual that hasn't changed her dialogue since D2 Year 1. It's a shame really I just want at least one season of her being actively involved in current events. Not lore tabs, an actual scene of her doing something instead of the same banter.

and Failsafe? poor Failsafe, the sweet artificial intelligent and bipolar corrupted dear is still stuck on Nessus.

[dim minnow]

Devrim got some time in Defiance, so there is hope

Sloane as well in Deep

[real ingot]

Asher had stuff in defiance as well

Vance is likely dead anyway so who cares

[worn kernel]

D2 violated Vance's character. I remember the days of D1, back when we didn't have all the answers. It was always so cool to visit B Vance at the Vestian outpost. But yeah after Arrivals he's pretty much dead and buried.

[meager belfry]

Not only dead and buried but forgotten. Guy was the biggest stan to Osiris who didn't even know he existed

[trim grotto]

Osiris even met him.

[meager belfry]

Wait they have???

I coulda sworn I seen on a certain gear piece that when Saint mentioned Vance, Osiris was confused

[trim grotto]

Yes. Queen Mara told Vance to tell Osiris to plant the Seed of Silver Wings on Io.

[trim grotto]

Yes, he was. He forgot.

[meager belfry]

Ohhh, well I mean that's still kinda sad on Vance's part

Errand boy

[worn kernel]

It went like Spongebob when he met Kevin the Sea Cucumber. Vance: "Hi Osiris..." Osiris: "Hello Loser."

[dim minnow]

and it wasn't even like it was a simple meeting either

Vance was telling Osiris about an important discoevery he had about the Lighthouses

so important, that Osiris told Vance to abandon it for his own safety

along with that, Vance told Osiris that Mara wanted him to "plant the seed" with we assume was a Seed of Silver Wings

for the latter, Osiris actually even thanked him for letting him know

[slim elk]

Yeah, thats the odd part

Vance was clearly onto something that mara wanted buried

[peak coral]

targeted redaction

deep void hc

[karmic hare]

[open wagon]

could this be the Witness' Spire?

[rich veldt]

what is this an extract from?

[real ingot]

Tesselation

[grand jungle]

Would it be possible for infinite forest to return

[real ingot]

If Mercury returns maybe

[ember sable]

Man I. Can't wait for cade-6 again

[trim grotto]

As Avlus said, only if Mercury returns. Which is possible, though we can't say how.

[real ingot]

You recognised me

[trim grotto]

Who else would still be called Gambit Winner haha

[real ingot]

Ember and Ari

[trim grotto]

They don't exist

[little gorge]

wait where have we seen << >> quotes before

i swear they've appeared somewhere else

[velvet flax]

I'm interested in the fact in the sotg they said the Multiplex pvp map is compiling the Infinite Forest

[fresh zephyr]

funny triangle
looks in
Saint-14
wait what

[trim grotto]

I imagine it's related to the simulation dome. Do you have the quote word for word?

[velvet flax]

'With the Vex Network playing such a crucial role in the story during Lightfall’s year, we felt now was the perfect time to deliver this map.'

and

'Narratively, the space is in the middle of compiling the Infinite Forest, so this is what you’ll see in action.'

[trim grotto]

Compiling...

Hm.

[ember storm]

it's funny how the map intro just says it's in the vex network on mars

i love consistency

[empty fern]

Now we need a vex network on io and Venus

Maybe even the tangled shore

[foggy fiber]

You’re just mad we won at gambit smh smh

[remote sky]

I need official proof that zavala actively listens to and uses shaxx's mixtape

[fiery copper]

We dont have any seasonal events that use it anymore so doubtful

[wheat latch]

Is there any more descriptive lore on blights? Or are they just concentrated taken energy or sumthin

[fiery copper]

Theyre goopin

[wheat latch]

That's an apt description

[fiery copper]

Just slimin around

[trim grotto]

Not much, really. You're pretty much on the money.

[wheat latch]

Coolio, thank you for not insulting me on my lore knowledge again

[trim grotto]

[outer dragon]

Drop gambit report

[thorny palm]

How does the last city get food

Without farms

[wheat latch]

I doubt there are no farms

[jagged badge]

City’s massive for one

[wheat latch]

The last city is massive and it's not all buildings

[jagged badge]

And we do see examples of food gardens in the Eliksni quarter so

Not a stretch to imagine there are other gardens and farms in the City

[wheat latch]

Just have guardian farmers outside the wall

[empty fern]

That’s like maxing out your farming unit before the other units in a kingdom game

[wheat latch]

Ez

I only come up with the best strats

[empty fern]

What’s the difference between the blood of oryx hive and the venom of oryx hive

Venom is more grey while the blood is purple

What’re there origins again?

[tawdry mauve]

"The Venom of Oryx is a small elite task force led by Kandorak and sent by Oryx, the Taken King to destroy Rasputin from the inside"

"The Blood of Oryx is a Hive sect who act as the direct servants of Oryx, the Taken King."

[uneven canyon]

Is there any reason we know that ghosts eye would turn green

[empty fern]

For ours? Idk besides cosmetic, for the hive? Hive magic usually results in green crystals or chitin

[uneven canyon]

In the trailer the eye changes green

Well, more green than what it’s supoosed to be.

[trim grotto]

Just looks like a glitch from damage.

[uneven canyon]

The eye changes after they ressurect us

[trim grotto]

I think you're overanalysing it, with respect.

[uneven canyon]

Fair, just feels like a detail that could be important

[trim grotto]

As far as it seems to me, it's a fluctuating screen glitch caused by physical damage.

[ember storm]

that’s just a lighter blue

[slim elk]

At most it might be an effect from what the Witness is doing
There is the distinctive crack to the lower left

[tawdry mauve]

me when its just a damaged shell

[empty fern]

So from what we know so far, how do y’all speculate how we get this weapon?

The traveler beam trace

[tawdry mauve]

final shape raid exotic

[empty fern]

Bungie pls no

[tawdry mauve]

im down

first heavy trace

very fitting too

[coarse gyro]

So question. Since we are now under Eris Morn's command and are killing so many by the sword logic Xivu is impressed are we the equivalent of the Crota to Eris' Oryx?

[fervent sandal]

Rng world drop exotic?

Nah

I dunno

[wind belfry]

Heavy trace would go so hard

[stiff basin]

Who is the biggest hater in destiny lore

Ok but what about an actual real menace hater

For example ghaul or something like that

[tawdry mauve]

shayura

gilgamesh is up there

[empty fern]

Gilgamesh is real?

[tawdry mauve]

wdym is real?

yes lol

he is the ghost of katabasis

who was so mad at katabasis he continued reviving him into a huge group of scorn inlcuding the locus aboard the glykon

having him be killed over and over

until katabsis eventually shot gilgamesh killing him

[empty fern]

Ohhh

Kek

[smoky rose]

It wasn't into the scorn

It was rezzing him so he starved to death again

[tawdry mauve]

it was into something

[empty fern]

It was the one vent trap

[smoky rose]

He starved to death repeatedly and just told Gilly to leave him dead until someone showed up

Gilly, being a corrupted asshole, just kept rezzing him and letting him starve

[empty fern]

Then calus showed up?

[smoky rose]

No

[empty fern]

Oh

[smoky rose]

Katabasis worked for Calus

This was after Calus got raptured by the witness and all of the surviving legionaires were killed

[empty fern]

Calus was this close to being a lightbearer

Oh

[tawdry mauve]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/entry-12-debtors-knife

""Sever our Light, or they'll rip you apart for a thousand lives." I gesture to the Scorn."

"FRENETIC SCRAWL INKED IN THE MARGIN READS: Water under the bridge, flooded with bodies waiting to stand again in the next wave. Be careful."

[empty fern]

Gilgamesh was infected by a salvation?

[outer dragon]

Immaru is a bigger hater than Gilgamesh

[empty fern]

Wonder how the first hunter vanguards ghost felt after their guardian died from an ahamkara card game

[ember storm]

probably gotten eaten with them

[empty fern]

F

[analog torrent]

Do they publish new stuff in the grimoires or is it just old stuff?

[smoky rose]

A mix

[analog torrent]

ok good

Next grimoire is about ghosts and their guardians and I would sacrifice my left pinky nail for more Felwinter and Felspring content 🙏

[wind belfry]

You gotta raise the stakes

Last time someone bet a left body part on something to come to destiny it did

[grizzled zinc]

So is rhulk’s pyramid like… the museum of britain?

[empty fern]

But less evil

[real ingot]

Rhulk just has less-evil London recreated in his pyramid

[ember storm]

debatable

[empty fern]

Rhulk is less evil not the British

[outer dragon]

Its the museum of his life. I wouldn't call it less or more evil given the results of his campaigns

[grizzled zinc]

So it’s a bit more of a trophy collection than a museum

[outer dragon]

Do we know what other societies he drove to an end other than his own? @ember storm

[ember storm]

i mean yeah he made it

[grizzled zinc]

But given rhulk’s age, it’s both a museum and a trophy collection

[ember storm]

nobody is selfless enough to make a goddamn museum for themselves

it's just to brag

[grizzled zinc]

He killed the mother of all worm gods

[ember storm]

and it's rhulk

he's rhulk

[ember storm]

we killed her

[grizzled zinc]

🗿

[outer dragon]

He killed the Leviathan

[ember storm]

he just hooked her up to a doomsday device and used her to make worms

[grizzled zinc]

Why the fuck is her corpse littering the pyramid then

[ember storm]

also didn't kill the leviathan

he just stole its rib and beat it up

[grizzled zinc]

This is such a funny statement to me

[ember storm]

it wasn't until the hive fully came into power and freed the worm gods that they broke out and ate the leviathan

[dim minnow]

The Ahslids

though that was more by accident

[grizzled zinc]

Who were they again?

Weren’t they empowered by the traveller or smth?

[outer dragon]

Pulling a rib out doesn't kill it? Damn

[dim minnow]

the were the ones Rhulk accidentally made nuke themselves

[grizzled zinc]

I mean would you die if i stole 1 rib from your chest?

[dim minnow]

I think Rhulk doesn't neccessarily go for ending civilizations

he prefers to convert them

[ember storm]

heavy was fine

[outer dragon]

Would definitely depend on how it was done

[grizzled zinc]

I just imagined rhulk pausing and saying “it was fucking hilarious, though i didn’t mean to do it”

[ember storm]

the witness was very cross about it so rhulk was definitely not laughing

[dim minnow]

hindsight hit Rhulk then like a pre-nerf bonk titan build

[grizzled zinc]

Aww

I was unaware rhulk had ever disappointed the witness

[dim minnow]

My duty to you failed. The greatest flaw in my handicraft stands before me. And yet, I find myself burdened with pride.