📚lore-discussion

[meager belfry]

Thanks

[rich veldt]

cause its a paracausal hand

[red robin]

makes sense

[rich veldt]

izi can kill ghosts, it doesnt take all that much

there used to be a pin of what can kill ghosts, idk what happened to it

seriously tho, the answer is straight up we are paracausal and strong enough to just crush them

[ornate pike]

Do not believe Spooky, I am convinced you can legit do this.

[rich veldt]

you cant just will yourself to be a hive god silly

you need hive magic and tithing

[red robin]

all it takes is reading the hives version of the bible and a small amount of ego and boom

[ornate pike]

Those who wield jotunn will be my acolytes

[rich veldt]

do their jotunns have a hive worm in them?

[red robin]

jotuun hive god of flame

https://tenor.com/view/man-watching-looking-fear-scared-gif-20121830

[ornate pike]

Have you heard of a gun called Xenophage?

We have the tech for this.

[rich veldt]

omar is not a hive worm

[red robin]

nuh uh

[ornate pike]

fym 'he's not a hive worm'

[rich veldt]

omar was in eris' fire team

[ornate pike]

There's a worm in the gun.
We also have parasite.
We should know how to put worms in guns by now.

[rich veldt]

omar is not a worm, good luck convincing mara to put worms in other guns

we only got parasite as savus worm is a useful asset to keep around

[red robin]

we threaten her at gun point

[ornate pike]

Yeah good luck with that

[rich veldt]

thats not a smart idea

[ornate pike]

Ok you're right-

But we've made other things into guns before it can't be that hard

[rich veldt]

how many pyramids have you split in half before?

[rich veldt]

yeah but worms are another thing

we directly havent turned anything into guns, we have always ran off to someone else for it

[red robin]

not with that attitude

[red robin]

a few

i mean they were small and made of sand but yk

same principle

[little vector]

Can we eat hive

I mean there exo skeleton is chiton right ?

Grind it into fine powder

Use it as a seasoning

[rich veldt]

drifter has eaten hive before

[dim minnow]

Driter ate Hive eyes you know

[rich veldt]

enjoys the eyes, have an interesting effect

[little vector]

What hasn’t the drifter tried to eat?

[rich veldt]

vex

well radiola

[dim minnow]

I think he has tried it before

[trim grotto]

He's considered it.

He didn't, but he thought about it.

[rich veldt]

consider isnt trying

[little vector]

What’s well radiola

[dim minnow]

hard to keep track of it

[trim grotto]

Radiolaria. Vex Milk.

Vex Mind Fluid.

The liquid which houses the Vex themselves

[little vector]

Yea

[ornate pike]

PSA: Do not try vex milk.
Asher mir is funny not because he drank the kool aid it is because he's just that annoying.

[little vector]

Is there lore for people who have eaten the milk

[ornate pike]

Give VoG videos a look

We've yet to run into Pradeth right?

[red robin]

me when milk colored but not milk

[ornate pike]

It's basically just liquid computer code filled with the vex collective minds.

[trim grotto]

Yeah. Kabr the Legionless from Vault of Glass.

Or Europa's Lost Sector... Perdition

They all died horribly

[red robin]

sounds about right

[alpine grail]

im doing the witch queen campaign and savathun apparently steals the traveler to her throne world? Didn't the traveler blow up or something during the collapse and the only remains were the ghosts? Or do I remember wrong?

[real ingot]

quite wrong

the traveler went dormant after the collapse

the city was built below it

[cosmic rivet]

why is eris a hive god mow

what did i misd

[real ingot]

the opening mission of the season

[cosmic rivet]

i aint play it

[real ingot]

that explains it

[cosmic rivet]

yeah she looks cool asf tho

[jagged badge]

Before Savathûn will allow her resurrection, she wants us to deal with her sister. Part of the plan to do so is for Eris to have undergone this ritual so that Guardians may tithe power to her to give her strength to fight Xivu

[cosmic rivet]

ohh

are we getting a xivu raid then?

[smoky rose]

Not for the next year at least

[jagged badge]

Honestly, I doubt it

[cosmic rivet]

oh rip😭

[rich veldt]

possibly a xivu dungeon but im not sure unless they delayed next seasons dungeon to the end of season

[red robin]

i got most of the explanation on why eris is hive god but what’s tithing?

[dim minnow]

we kill enemies and she gets stronger

[red robin]

bet thx

[jagged badge]

So basically, the Hive gain power through their worms when they get kills. Savathûn, Oryx and Xivu devised a system in which all their underlings would feed some power to their worms and then tithe the surplus upwards, in a sorta pyramid structure until it reaches the three Hive Gods

As their worms will be the hungriest

[blazing wasp]

Pokemon xp

[jagged badge]

Getting all this extra tithe from their subordinates helps feed their worms

[red robin]

so basically they built a cult-pyramid scheme for power

[blazing wasp]

Not even basically.

It's literally just a pyramid scheme

[red robin]

explains why they literally ride on pyramids

[ember storm]

well the witness made those

[red robin]

true but the rests of them have a bunch of triangle shaped ships

[ember storm]

the hive have tombships and hallowed out moons as vehicles

[cosmic rivet]

whats the lore behind huntets being insanley neglected by bungie

[blazing wasp]

Gameplay =/= lore

[cosmic rivet]

😭

was a joke but bro they have their favourites

in crotas the warlock and titan strand shit was disabled but hunters wasnt shows how shit we get it

[blazing wasp]

Then

Why are you not in the complaining channel

If it was a joke

[versed orbit]

good

[blazing wasp]

This is the lore channel sir

Sorry

Ma'am I didn't read bio

[cosmic rivet]

😭 give hunters love

[versed orbit]

no

[heavy shore]

Who was our guardian before? We’re we important; we’re we just a person? We were definitely Russian; so why can’t we understand Russian. And if we spoke Russian before why the hell can we speak fluent English the moment we woke up.

[ember storm]

nothing about us is known, and no, there's nothing confirming nor denying we were russian in any capacity

the guardian is largely a blank slate outside of "we need to go get the bad guy" dialogue so you can make your own character up

appearance, gear, subclass, everything is customizable

they do the same thing for your backstory, meaning it's all up in the air

[versed orbit]

The cosmodrome was a spaceport in old Russia

[ember storm]

which means nothing

[versed orbit]

Doesn’t make us Russian

[ember storm]

the place your corpse ends up isn't reflective of who you are at all

[versed orbit]

I’m agreeing with you 😭

[jagged badge]

Awoken didn’t exist until after the Collapse, so if your Guardian is Awoken you couldn’t be Russian

Unless you were a Russian passenger of the Yang Liwei

[heavy shore]

Just a human dude. We woke up in the Russian cosmodrome

All of us did

[jagged badge]

I’m aware

[heavy shore]

And we were dead for “a very long time”

[jagged badge]

There’s almost a full millennia between the Collapse and our resurrection

[heavy shore]

Oh fr? I didn’t know that tbh.

[jagged badge]

Well, it’s estimating things

But definitely over 5 centuries at least

[heavy shore]

Alr thx. I didn’t know that

[tawdry mauve]

wdym all of us

[heavy shore]

All the guardians we play all had the same wake up mission, d1 and d2

[tawdry mauve]

well all the guardians we play

is the same guardian

[heavy shore]

Ik

[tawdry mauve]

but the young wolf is not nescessarily russian

or anything for that matter

we just happened to be at the wall in the cosmodrome

[heavy shore]

Meh, good point

[tawdry mauve]

well

our corpse happened to be there

[heavy shore]

(Unless you play using Russian speech lmao)

[heavy shore]

Yea

Good point fr tho

[jagged badge]

The Cosmodrome was the site of a mass exodus of people trying to flee the Collapse, which would account for people of many different nationalities being present

[tawdry mauve]

that too

[jagged badge]

As for the Awoken, who knows how they got there

[velvet flax]

We know how Awoken got to Earth but at that specific location yeah unknown

I just imagine they were helping some survivors there but they were all killed by the Fallen there

[empty fern]

What are we talking about?

[wind belfry]

the identity of the young wolf

[empty fern]

Our

Guardian?

[velvet flax]

Yes

How them possible being Awoken is a bit weird

[jagged badge]

Not really

[blazing wasp]

If it's weird our guardian is awoken, it's extremely weird zavala even exists

[outer dragon]

There were Awoken that left the Distributary and then left the Dreaming City and Tangled Shore for Earth

So its not weird at all

[blazing wasp]

Huh?

Oh that

Not a video initially but

I remember it

It was made into a video based on a image

[grand jungle]

Master chief vs iron wolf

[rich veldt]

ewww powerscalling, guardian sweeps easily anyways

[jagged badge]

Master Chief when he’s staring down the incoming Nova Bomb about to absolutely melt his atoms into nothingness

[trim grotto]

No.

It was fanmade.

Do not go chasing the secrets of !lettinggo, for it leads nowhere.

[peak coral]

that sounds

suspicious...

but i totally trust that u r hiding no secrets!

:)))

[trim grotto]

[ember storm]

lore nerds i call upon you

i need guidance

[ebon wharf]

So what's the basics of this season? We're turning eris into a hive god or a being similar in power so she herself could fight xivu? She a medium to speak as and embody savathun?

[ember storm]

we're just dealing with xivu first because we need help from savathun with the witness, but she doesn't want to deal with xivu

immaru is just helping us through the deal with orders and recordings savathun gave him

[ebon wharf]

So we're using things that savathun left behind to guide us to beating xivu?

[ember storm]

basically

it's sort of half and half

eris has her own plans but we sort of need immaru now and again and he's just being incredibly cocky about it

seriously half of his dialogue is just "check this out" and then playing a savathun recording, dude can barely make a statement on his own

[ebon wharf]

Lmfao

So is the end goal to res savathun then have her help best xivu?

I'm still a lil lost

[ember storm]

we need Savathun's help and she knew we would

she knew we would be stuck against the witness, so she made a contingency plan in case she died (she did) that revolves around her help

we need to take out xivu first because savathun doesn't want to

otherwise immaru isn't going to revive savathun for us and we're back at square one

[dim minnow]

imagine if it was all for nothing because something goes wrong and then Osiris shows up figuring out the solution on his own

[ember storm]

he deserves it

[jagged badge]

What’s up?

[ember storm]

i need the list of lgbt characters

again

[brittle plume]

Can someone start an eris morn religion

[real ingot]

I can give a small list

Osiris
Saint
Ana
Unsure if Nimbus counts under that
Eriana-3?
Micah
Oryx though different species
Eramis

I'm probs missing quite a few obvious one

[fresh zephyr]

I say some things about Guardians killing their own ghosts

why would a guardian ever want to kill their own ghost

[dim minnow]

in the case of Katabasis, his Ghost went mad from the Crown of Sorrow's influence

Cyrell ironically refused to kill his own Ghost and instead opted to sever their connection by going to the darkest reaches of the Reef

Callum was believed to kill his own Ghost because he was corrupted by Darkness, but in reality he never killed his own Ghost, he only stabbed an already dead one

this was because it was part of an act that Shin was in on

[fresh zephyr]

hmmm

[dim minnow]

also worth noting that Dredgen Yor didn't kill his own Ghost

the two simply parted ways

[fresh zephyr]

So the main reasons would be either influence by darkness or madness, or because one doesn't wish to interact/cooperate with the light/traveler

[fresh zephyr]

Ghost's can part with their Guardian?

I need to read more lore tbh

[jolly vector]

they can leave and maybe join another guardian

the 2nd part havent been fully proven yet but hinted at

[real ingot]

can't rez another

but they can hang out

[jolly vector]

nah if bungo want they can lul

[real ingot]

ah yes the "if the writers want it argument"

[fresh zephyr]

I always figured that the traveler created ghosts for specific individuals, though I suppose it'd make more sense for them to just find guardians to resurrect

[real ingot]

they seem to have a spark with specific individuals

but that doesn't mean they can't revive another

[jolly vector]

final shape should go into detail how they know which to rev

[real ingot]

example being lucent Hive

[fresh zephyr]

Does that theoretically mean that one Ghost could revive more than one guardian

or is that strictly impossible

[jolly vector]

doubtful until proven otherwise

[real ingot]

different argument

atm we've seen that a ghost choice is their last choice

and very unlikely they can rez another

[fresh zephyr]

That makes sense

also another question

[ember storm]

would you like to hear about ghost community theatre

[real ingot]

ask quick

I have a minute

[fresh zephyr]

why can guardians not remember their past, is it simply because they died or is it the interference of the Traveler

[real ingot]

unknown

[fresh zephyr]

does that mean that they are different people

[real ingot]

many theories exist about it

[real ingot]

pretty much

[fresh zephyr]

like could Cayde be serious before his guardianhood

and now that he's a guardian he is more silly goofy boi

[real ingot]

unless they take the identity of their past such as Sav and Ana

[ember storm]

cayde shot at a child before guardianhood

[dim minnow]

according to one of the techeuns, Zavala was hery similar to his past life

[fresh zephyr]

damn

[ember storm]

also prime example is crow

[real ingot]

Read 'The man they called Cayde'

[dim minnow]

though it looked like the bullet only grazed Micah, I'm pretty certain it actually hit him

[ember storm]

it's like his entire character establishing the difference between a mortal and the risen

[dim minnow]

and after that point, the rest of the book was Micah as an exo without knowing

[fresh zephyr]

I definitely will

[ember storm]

i honestly think it makes the whole thing way too complicated

[fresh zephyr]

I need to catch up on lore

also

[ember storm]

i don't get how you came up with that one

[fresh zephyr]

Do normal people dislike Guardians

[dim minnow]

the dreams

[fresh zephyr]

I hear npcs all the time talk behind my back calling me pretentious or someone who is better than them

that guardians seemingly just ignore them as if they are nothing

[dim minnow]

I don't think there is a general statement for that

really depends on the person

though I know there was an instance where a civilian threw a bottle at a hunter's head

she barely even reacted if I'm correct

though I bet internally she was playing damage phase music in her head

[fresh zephyr]

lol

Another question

what is the lore reason for Gambits and Crucible

is it simply training?

also what's the relationship between Shaxx and the Drifter

because during matches I feel the Drifter disses on Shaxx a bit

[dim minnow]

Shaxx is really not fond of Drifter

[ember storm]

gambit is 1 of 2 things

a partnership drifter has with the nine

[dim minnow]

Drifter I don't think really has much against Shaxx

[ember storm]

and a deal with shin malphur

and also kind of 3 he just gets money from it

[dim minnow]

both I believe

and the third though it isn't money, but motes

[ember storm]

i just worded it wrong yeah

[dim minnow]

for Crucuble, it began as a way to settle disputes, but then Shaxx turned it into a way for Guardians to forge themselves into the best Guardian they can be after Twilight Gap

as for Gambit, that is a complicated one

initially, Gambit was Drifter's way of preparing for the end

the whole point was for Guardians to bring him motes of Darkness

[ember storm]

i miss the umbral decoder

[dim minnow]

of course, this gained the interest of both the Nine and Shin Malphur

[fresh zephyr]

So, is the Drifter "bad"?

[dim minnow]

the Nine wanted to use Gambit to better understand Light and Dark

[fresh zephyr]

or just a neutral

[ember storm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9kuSsmCZVU&ab_channel=DestinyLoreVault

[ember storm]

he's basically a good guy now

[dim minnow]

neutral, but good alignment

[fresh zephyr]

BRO THIS IS AMAZING

THEY GOT RID OF THIS?

[ember storm]

he showed initially with the "i'm just here for myself brotha wanna help me stock up"

[dim minnow]

and as for Shin Malphur, he wanted Gambit for multiple things

[ember storm]

now he's actively taking the time to reach out to sloane, talk with her over drinks about recovering from trauma

plus there's his whole deal with eris

[dim minnow]

1. as a test to see if Guardians can handle using Darkness in tandem with Light
2. To lure out "false" shadows of Yor who were corrupt guardians

[fresh zephyr]

Shin Malphur is good right

he just has a "bad" way about it right

sort of renegade esque

[ember storm]

i mean guardians do what guardians do

kill things

he kills things

[dim minnow]

pretty much, he is secretly the leader of the Shadows of Yor

[fresh zephyr]

I mean didn't he take the name Dredgen Vale?

[ember storm]

he created the dredgens

[fresh zephyr]

after killing Dredgen Yor

[dim minnow]

and I'm still certain he is the one who gave the Scorn Barons the devourer round that killed Sundance

[ember storm]

why would he do that

[dim minnow]

to give us the same spark Dredgen Yor gave him

[ember storm]

it's a devourer round, most notably coming from weapons of sorrow, there's a guy based around hive in the scorn barons, and the brood he subjegated had a weapon of sorrow smith in it

i really don't think it needs to be this way

i also don't think shin is the type of guy to stage an assassination

[fresh zephyr]

I mean isn't his whole goal to cultivate guardians to the darkness so that we can use its abilities in war

[dim minnow]

look at the whole Callum thing

[fresh zephyr]

I can't talk too much since I'm dumb on Destiny lore but I wanted to ask

[dim minnow]

he wanted to ensure that the next generation of Guardians can use Darkness for good

[fresh zephyr]

hmm

[fresh zephyr]

Did Shin Malphur have a relationship with people such as Eris Morn?

[ember storm]

you mean the thing that's specifically not about a final death and can very easily be reversed at this point?

[dim minnow]

it ain't gonna be reversed

[fresh zephyr]

because isn't the point about shadowkeep that we can use darkness and its not inherently evil like we used to believe

[dim minnow]

just because it can doesn't mean it will

[dim minnow]

that was Beyond Light

[fresh zephyr]

dang

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

[ember storm]

even then a mutually agreed upon "martyr" being set up is vastly different than plotting to assassinate a vanguard leader

[fresh zephyr]

Why is Zavala so guarded about his music, its straight gas

who knew Shaxx spit so hard on the mic

[trim grotto]

Lord Shaxx got the rapz

[ember knot]

Can someone give me the TL;DR on Season of the Deep? Not literally everything we learned, I mean the main story

[smoky rose]

space whale has info on the witness and how to follow it

sloane knows how to talk with space whale

need space mushroom to talk with space whale

rinse and repeat

[ember knot]

Awesome. Love whales 🐋

[smoky rose]

by space whale I mean worm god before they were worm gods, btw

[trim grotto]

Proto-Worm

[ember knot]

So Ahsa just...outlived evolution?

[ember storm]

big fish also told us to go get savathun

[ember storm]

it wasnt real evolution

[trim grotto]

Escaped Darkness corruption more like

[ember storm]

basically like the hive really

[ember knot]

Ohh

[heady gyro]

Space mushroom carry

[worn kernel]

I'm still confused in regards to Quicksilver Storm's ammunition, is it some sort of metallic alloy?

[trim grotto]

It's nanites. Like Outbreak.

[heady gyro]

I thought of that too in detail, but for starters it's nanites

[heady gyro]

My guess is that reserve nanites in the mag make additional nanites for ammunition, which then gets used and is resupplied again

[worn kernel]

Essentially, a self replicating magazine? In theory we are only carrying one mag for the gun's ammunition since fifty percent of the gun itself is composed of nanites and the metal frame that houses it?

[fresh zephyr]

Which group is the most threatening to the Guardians

[worn kernel]

The Architects

[heady gyro]

My guess would be two, between each mag use, gives time for regen

Instead of buying or crafting new bullets i bet we just feed the nanites scrap metal for replication

Very cost effective

[worn kernel]

Hmm, yeah that would make sense.

[heady gyro]

And yea, the gun is pretty much a glorified metal frame

[worn kernel]

Now all that's left is getting my most prized auto rifle looks at frame meant for the Khvostov 7G-0X Exotic

[smoky rose]

idk if you saw but they are bringing that back in TFS

[worn kernel]

Oh yeah I saw. It's gonna be a good reunion with that Ol' Auto Rifle

[peak coral]

Khvostov 7G-0X was the d1 exotic

7G-02 was white

[worn kernel]

yeh typo

[real ingot]

Anything that isn't Causal

[ember storm]

vex are cool

[real ingot]

Take centuries for them to get closer to killing a guardian

[ember storm]

correction

take centuries to get close to kill one of the strongest guardians of all time

more importantly the vex are capable of withstanding an infinite amount of time

guardians are not

[real ingot]

true

[ember storm]

being up in our face like "I AM THE WAR YOU CRAVE" or whatever isn't what makes something a threat imo

[dim minnow]

it has to be between Hive and Vex

though if I would pick one, I'd say Hive

the first battle we had with the Hive was the Battle of Burning Lake which was described as a close victory

and given what it takes for the Vex to be a major threat to a guardian

[rugged sapphire]

Me

[smoky rose]

There's the cabal who's megaengineering potential is so great they literally caged the traveler and cut us off

But they are mostly neutralized as a threat now

[dim minnow]

though it did take a while for them to do it

and even then, that cage was legit the only thing that made them a threat

even if they attacked us by surprise, if they did not have the cage, then they would not have won in any way

[timber anvil]

do we know what shin malphur looks like

[dim minnow]

I don't think we ever got an actual design for him, but we have heard his voice

[ebon wharf]

Can exos feel pain? Or feel things? I thought not since I read or heard somewhere that some often confuse their new metal skin for their armor?

[dim minnow]

exos were made to feel human needs like the need to eat, sleep, drink, and reproduce

so it is very likely that they are capable of feeling pain

[ebon wharf]

They can eat? Or just feel the need?

Like are they eternally starving?

[dim minnow]

exos can drink, so the ability to satisfy those needs is also possible

[empty fern]

Any lore relevance behind the old lake of shadows boss? The taken phalanx from red war

[ebon wharf]

And how about the resurrection of a exo when they first become a guardian? Do the ghosts just find a body and say it'll do?

[empty fern]

Usually yea

I wonder

Since most beings revived by the light forget everything, are exos an exception since Clovis most likely has record data in them? (I support this theory by bringing up DSC special exo lines)

[ebon wharf]

But then how does a personality come from that? Like saint for example?

Or do exos always since being made have that conscious in the body?

[empty fern]

Imprints or environment ?

Dregs in old Russia

[ebon wharf]

Imprints I suppose? I'm not sure

[empty fern]

Nah I think saints in environments,

Location is Russia for play area so I feel like that could be it

[ebon wharf]

Do exos have like free will ig? From creation or just from resurrection?

[little gorge]

I'm pretty sure they only remember their name

[empty fern]

That’s too deep, leave it for another time

[empty fern]

Oh

I see

[ebon wharf]

Nexus no pls I need these answers

[empty fern]

Too fukin bad, go to bed

It’s 2am (for me)

[ebon wharf]

You go to bed

[empty fern]

Fine

Gn lore chat

[dim minnow]

yeah pretty much

[thorny palm]

Who is the main manufacturer for all the different armors we find throughout the game

[dim minnow]

there isn't a general manufacturer really

[thorny palm]

[dim minnow]

maybe FotC made some Vanguard/Crucible ones

along wth other general armor sets

other than that, we have armor sets made by specific foundries

like Tex Mechanica armor from SotW and that one Warlock set

or the Daito armor

[trim grotto]

There isn't a singular. We have many foundries and armour often has different origins. Do you have a particular set in mind?

[thorny palm]

Not really

Normally I use mix and match sets, as long as they look good together

[dim minnow]

I never thought anything would make me take off the Y3 solstice helmet with glow for Titan

then Spire of the Watcher came and I just had to get that cowboy hat

Titan easily got the best hat out of the three

though I must admit that the Hunters got the most versatile given that it is part of the cloak

[jagged badge]

I was eepy so I missed this but on it 🫡

Saint-14
Osiris
Lord Shaxx
Devrim Kay
Marc
Suraya Hawthorne
Mara Sov
Sjur Eido
Eramis
Athrys
Ana Bray
Camrin Dumuzi
Elisabeth Bray
Ikora Rey
Drifter
Eriana-3
Wei Ning
Micah-10
Hector Abram
Wesley Abram
Chalco Yong
Amrita Vae
Kazia
Maya Sundaresh
Chioma Esi
Nimbus
Stargazer
Quinn Laghari
Paolo
Adinew
Oryx

[grizzled zinc]

Daito makes armor?

I thought they just made two tail and JR

[grizzled zinc]

Is this the season of the haunted mecha armor

Or does it have something to do with the nine?

[jagged badge]

No, it’s from Season of Arrivals

[grizzled zinc]

So the nine

Prophecy

[jagged badge]

Well

It’s from Prophecy

But it has no relation to the Nine

[grizzled zinc]

The NINE BALLS ARE LITERALLY IN THE BACKGROUND

[jagged badge]

Drifter found the armour in a warehouse and I dunno, gave it out to us I guess

[grizzled zinc]

Of course

[jagged badge]

"Daddy Daito locked this old soul up in the warehouse when margins got too tight. I'm just here to liberate it." —The Drifter

[grizzled zinc]

I like Drifter exactly 50% of the time

When he’s being an utter goon and when he’s talking to anyone but the other dredgens.

[grizzled zinc]

Daddy daito.

[jagged badge]

"Daito's property? You only own a thing 'till someone takes it from you. So nah, this beauty belongs to you now." —The Drifter

"The glasses down in Daito's R&D basement cooked up some wild trips. Not many see the light of day. Lucky for you, I'm an expert in acquisitions." —The Drifter

"Like old Drifter's gonna let this collect dust on a shelf just cause of some failed safety tests… Don't they know what we're dealing with?" —The Drifter

Yeah the lore is literally Drifter stole some recalled prototype armour or whatever and dished it out to us for fun

[grizzled zinc]

Of fucking course

He have two veist armor sets

Both are technically universal ornaments though

Virulent and hardened basilisk

[plush sequoia]

In the mission in the black garden during Lightfall, the Taken engage Sol Divisive and Osiris hypothesis' that the witness sent them to cover its track. But if Sol Divisive is loyal to the witness why wouldn't it just order the vex to stand down? Why send the taken to fight them?

I'm lost at the strategy here

[regal fractal]

I'm trying to explain destiny 2 dlc to my girlfriend

Is this accurate

[queen python]

i feel like every single lore analysis actually takes the witness' motivation at face value... how often is it really the case that we can take the motivation of our enemy at face value? i reckon the final shape is just a bluff and the witness just wants to go fucky wucky with time to go back to the time before their people merged into one and have the traveler back

[ember storm]

the sol divisive were never loyal to the witness

honestly they probably never knew it existed

anyway, the witness needed the vex mind with the black heart schematics destroyed, since it would be tied to the veil and help us deal with the portal

[ember storm]

well

not really no

europa was always an ice moon

titan is unrelated

[grizzled zinc]

not even the same moon

europa doesn't even orbit saturn

[regal fractal]

close enough

[grizzled zinc]

europa orbits jupiter

it's just cold as shit

[plush sequoia]

But they made the Heart to copy the veil to link with the traveler, but failed to do. Why would they try to achieve the goal of the witness if they didn't know it existed. And in Spire Osiris says they worship the witness. If it needed the symatics destroyed why not just order the vex to do it?

[jagged badge]

What did you need the list for btw?

[ember storm]

lost it the last time the server got wiped and i keep not-saving it like a moron

just got reminded when gen chat had a lively discussion about the server icon

[jagged badge]

Ahh gotcha

Well, good thing because it’s been updated since the last time I would have posted it here

With new Lightfall characters and also some old characters I missed before

[ember storm]

i'm just going to put oryx at the top of the list because it's funny watching people react to it for the first time

[jagged badge]

[ember storm]

i still have my opinions on him specifically but it's a hassle mentioning it every time

[jagged badge]

Yeah he doesn’t fully count but it’s funny so that’s what counts

[ember storm]

genderfluid king doesn't roll off the tongue as well

[sweet mason]

can someone give me like a really simplified tldr of what the vale is

a friend is asking and I don’t really know how to respond

[jagged badge]

Our current knowledge suggests the Veil is a counterpart to the Traveler. It is to the Darkness what the Traveler is to the Light

[empty fern]

Ngl

They did the fingers surprisingly well

[sweet mason]

does that suggest it is “living” like the traveler is?

or at least that it’s sentient

[jagged badge]

It appears to have spoken to Maya Sundaresh

So yeah

[sweet mason]

ok thx

[dim minnow]

the Witness and Nezarec both refer to the Veil as if it is sentient

[sleek hare]

Yo does anyone know why does no enemy think of destroying our ghost after killing us so we die die

[shadow warren]

Gameplay reasons

Wouldn’t be a very long game otherwise

But also ghosts are very resilient

[ember storm]

it’s just gameplay

Ghost attributes his survival to just staying hidden all the time

[shadow warren]

Can’t they only be killed by paracausal means

[ember storm]

a stray bullet wouldn’t kill a ghost, like is shown by Sagira, but a legion of enemies would definitely put one down

[shadow warren]

Or by a decent amount of force

[ember storm]

it’s both

for example a point blank shotgun or a direct izi shot

[rich veldt]

what if that stray bullet is from an izinagi burden

[ember storm]

paracausal force is just a guaranteed kill

then that’s on you for missing the unstoppable ogre right in front of you, chucklenuts

imagine using ricochet rounds and a stray bullet just pops your ghost

[peak coral]

also speaking of rico rounds

dying to your own rico rounds proc sweaty confetti

[true vault]

i mightve asked this a few months ago but is it possible for eliksni to become guardians?

[stone turtle]

I think if the traveler deems it

idk

[outer dragon]

At this time there are no known Eliksni Lightbearer. But given the fact that Hive are Lightbearers it is not impossible. Just not likely at this time.

[true vault]

that makes sense

[outer dragon]

To me at least, it would feel underwhelming if we had Eliksni Lightbearers given their Splicer tech and the fact that the Hive Lightbearers exist

[true vault]

and just to refresh my memory, the whole "devotion inspires bravery" is what might make you a guardian?

[outer dragon]

We don't know the criteria

The "Devotion inspires bravery" speach was the Speaker being the Speaker and explaining HIS understanding of how ghosts choose

But the Dark Age is full of examples of people who were given the power of the Light and used it for their own, morally questionable at best, goals.

The Drifter is an excellent example of this

[slim elk]

Pretty much, we dont know exactly what the Traveler is looking for in the criteria to raise guardians.

Everything we heard from the "sacrifice lead to death" to Maras "bomb logic" is all attempts by others to make sense of it

Even the ghosts themselves dont know...

[true vault]

ahhh okey okey

[outer dragon]

@true vault I recommend Ghost Stories. You can find it on Ishtar Collective or in game with the vaulted lore

Its really interesting and there are some fun reads.
For example, Glint used to be called pulled pork

[true vault]

alrighty cool, thanks!

i try to understand lore because its super cool

[dim minnow]

the marketing around TFS makes me wonder if defeating the Witness is why the Traveler created the Ghosts

[slim elk]

Theres one final question that really should be answered

We know Dark Guardians have been a thing countless times in the Dark Future

.. but what happened to the ghosts?

[slender ether]

@coarse gyro heyo!

[coarse gyro]

Sup

[dim minnow]

corrupted maybe

[coarse gyro]

So if a major NPC turns out to be an Ahamkara who is most likely to be one?

[slender ether]

Hm

[dim minnow]

if you are referring to the Kentarch 3, we know Lisbon's Ghost was muted by the Witness so she couldn't say anything

hmmm

[ember storm]

me

[dim minnow]

I wonder

[slim elk]

Easy: Levante

[dim minnow]

when Drifter modified his Ghost, she was unable to speak as well, and he supposedly was able to use Stasis at that point

[coarse gyro]

I think Amanda is. She's waaaay too lucky for it to be normal.

[ember storm]

she's fucking dead

[dim minnow]

so what if what happened to Drifter's Ghost was similar to what happened to Lisbon's

[ember storm]

"way too lucky" she was burnt to a crisp months ago

[coarse gyro]

She's still in the tower? When did she die?

[ember storm]

she was removed from the tower

rahool took all her inventory

[slender ether]

The queen of the reef could be a likely subject, however, I forgot her wish, it could explain why she has a egg, flips the reason from to could be useful to motherly feelings.

[ember storm]

the same thing happened when cayde died

all his stock was removed and he was permanently deleted from the tower, whether you even owned forsaken or not

amanda died at the end of season of defiance, the season that coincided with lightfall's release

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-2-season-of-defiance-amanda-holliday-shipwright-gif-1657078308884676909

[coarse gyro]

Welp makes sense I didn't know I just got back into destiny after stopping for a few months.

[ember storm]

surprised you haven't heard of it

[slender ether]

They also just did her really dirty, they kinda killed her for little to no reason.

Well, they didn't do her death justice

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/crow-chaperone-destiny2-crow-gif-27649485

we did get this out of it

[dim minnow]

SHOT THROUGH THE HEART

[slim elk]

nothing about the situation makes sense there really...

[outer dragon]

I could see arguments for Levante being an Ahamkara.

An outside chance for Fenchurch too

[ember storm]

the hardest part about defiance wasn't amanda's death

it was the followup with zavala

[slender ether]

Correct

[ember storm]

especially concerning then-recent events

[coarse gyro]

So friendly old lady could be an Ahamkara?

[ember storm]

but anyway

[coarse gyro]

Yeah I can see it.

[ember storm]

i really don't expect anybody to be a secret ahamkara

[slender ether]

Also doubt it. She doesn't really do much

[ember storm]

especially not the npc designed to never go away nor be particularly relevant

ie the holiday event vendor

[dim minnow]

Shaxx literally has an Ahamkara skull hanging over him

[ember storm]

there's nothing to do with that

[slim elk]

Yeah.. if anything I would expect Mara to be sitting on an ahahmkara egg

Had that whole little easter egg of one nearby Savathuns crystal cage in Lost

[slender ether]

Yeah but it can't be him, it looks cool

[ember storm]

aren't all the taken eggs already dead though

[slender ether]

Not alll of them

[ember storm]

like forsaken didn't end with a call to arms to recover wishender and eradicate all the eggs

it was just killing riven

[slender ether]

As I mentioned before. She kept one

[ember storm]

that's my point

it's an infertile egg

they're dead

all of them

[slim elk]

remember who you speak about here Waltz lol

[coarse gyro]

Hmm. I really like this idea honestly. Secret Ahamkara helping us indirectly.

[slim elk]

Mara was in "queen bitch of the universe mode" back then.

[outer dragon]

An Ahamkara that saw the death a destruction of their race by the hands of the Guardians during the Great Hunt wanting to be ingratiated into that group so they live?

[ember storm]

who i speak about is a woman with a mop for a hairdo that the fanbase somehow convinced was physically attractive

[slim elk]

Makes sense she keeps secrets

[outer dragon]

Thats my spin

I doubt though we have any living Ahamkara left

[ember storm]

the ahamkara literally sought out death by guardians

[outer dragon]

Maybe that one didn't want to die

Idk man

[slim elk]

...
I still like the idea of Vex trying to convert a Ahahkara so we could have a mecha wish dragon fight

[outer dragon]

Bungie writers are all over the place

[dim minnow]

who?

[ember storm]

mara

[coarse gyro]

Shape shifters are interesting because they can still cause concern and confusion even long after death.

[slender ether]

I think her hair looks cool

[ember storm]

seriously her ingame model is a nightmare

[dim minnow]

look man, people drew fanart and left tips for her while she was human

[coarse gyro]

Mecha Godzilla fight?

[ember storm]

look at this fucking thing she probably looked better then

now?

i don't see it

[slim elk]

"Vex Ahamkara"

[coarse gyro]

Punch the robot dragon!

[slender ether]

I still like it

[ember storm]

you should know the first rule of lore chat

nothing is meant to be fun

no liking things

[slender ether]

HA. SOMEONE TRYED LINKING A DISCORD

[ember storm]

it happens

[coarse gyro]

I reject your reality and substitute my own!

I love lore.

[slender ether]

The witness:

[ember storm]

anyway panoptes was basically the closest you'd ever get to a vex dragon

[coarse gyro]

Mainly about Hive and Ahamkara.

[dim minnow]

wdym, this is the pinnacle of beauty in Destiny

[slender ether]

Don't forget when the darkness itself said "my man oryx"

[ember storm]

i am still invariably pissed off about that for the record

[slim elk]

on the whole "Vex capturing a wish dragon and trying to convert it thing"
Thought that may be a whole vex storyline thing given their whole deal is trying to get parascauality under their control... and the Vault of Glass was on Venus where the ahahmkara gathered a lot

[dim minnow]

my man Oryx*

[ember storm]

what are the vex units called that have humanoid and avaian features?

wyverns

what are the vex units called that have zero humanoid or avian features/

harpies

[slender ether]

Thanks for the correction

[ember storm]

what are the vex units called that have on singular head? hydras

[smoky rose]

And by darkness we mean witness

[coarse gyro]

That big vex boss that people have a weird attraction too?

[smoky rose]

Because Bungie confirmed the witness wrote Unveiling

[ember storm]

what

[dim minnow]

hydras have but one head waltz

[slender ether]

The witness and the darkness aren't the same thing

[smoky rose]

Yes but the witness wrote unveiling

[ember storm]

my point is that "minotaurs", which have zero minotaur-esque qualities actually exhibit more of a "hydra" characteristic

[smoky rose]

and thus was the narrator of my man oryx

[dim minnow]

you would do well to come out of your hide site, to better understand our enemies

[slender ether]

Oh your trolling. Dang:(

I got fooled

[dim minnow]

we all know the Winnower isn't real

[ember storm]

in D1 not only did they have no critical point, meaning you'd default to shooting their head, but they also had eyes on their shoulders which then allowed them to go into a frenzy after shooting off their head

like the concept is right there

who named them, clovis?

[slim elk]

Biggest take away from me with the whole "Unveiling propoganda thing" is the whole Wager seems to be entirely false lol

[ember storm]

i hate clovis

[ember storm]

you need to remember propaganda doesn't always mean it's untrue or made to deceive

[dim minnow]

could be the Witness' perspective on the Wager

[ember storm]

it could genuinely be what the witness thinks

[slender ether]

Gunsmith is cool tho

[dim minnow]

also, Toland has met the Witness you know

[smoky rose]

The wager makes sense if you consider how the black fleet appeared to be doing nothing until the traveler killed Ghaul

[ember storm]

and it's the one thing that's had the longest amount of time by both the traveler and veil

it's the most knowledgable on the subject, really

[coarse gyro]

Turn him into a new exotic gun.

[ember storm]

i hope we get to just dismantle the big head on europa

[dim minnow]

I'm thinking that Unveiling was what the Witness discovered when its people communed with the Veil

[coarse gyro]

We did it to Xol, Oryx, and that one Vex I can't remember the name of. Why not Clovis too?

[slim elk]

Do gotta ask why we havent jacked into his head yet and pried every last piece of info before killing him after his attempted backstab in Seraph

[smoky rose]

If nothing else he keeps those braytech facilities safe

[coarse gyro]

I want to make it into a mech that spouts propaganda.

[slender ether]

Didn't Rasputin kill him? Could be wrong

[smoky rose]

So long as he can't get off-world again he's a useful idiot

[smoky rose]

He killed the copy on the exo frame

[ember storm]

no

[smoky rose]

Not the one on Europa

[slender ether]

Oh

[cloud comet]

I don’t know where to go to ask this question and this seems to be the most active thing is anyone able to help my partner with the last part to the headlong quest on legendary x

[ember storm]

clovis uploaded a copy (yes, a copy of a copy) into the frame during seraph for easier communication and access to the warsat network

when we rebuilt rasputin we just kicked him out

[slim elk]

TBF:Witness loves their clone spam

[ember storm]

witness probably fucking hates clovis anyway

like it keeps picking out the most easily manipulated and egotistical subjects, and they're completely capable of exploiting them, but genuinely interacting with them is not something it enjoys

like imagine an entire civilization having to watch calus whine about physical labor

[coarse gyro]

Ughhh reminds me of retail!

[slender ether]

YOU WORKED RETAIL???

[ember storm]

"I battered down the gates of our enemies and claimed my glittering prize!"

he did neither

[slender ether]

I'm so sorry for your loss

[dim minnow]

I'm surprised no one redrew that one frame from Attack on Titan with Calus and the Witness yet

[coarse gyro]

Yup.

[dim minnow]

worst part is that he easily could have from the start if you see how easily he broke into Veil Containment during Desperate Measures

[ember storm]

he just didn't feel like it because he had the radial mast

[coarse gyro]

We had a 200 pound, 5 foot 4 lard sack named Carl. He'd whine if he had to do anything physical.

[ember storm]

did not put any of the extra effort and paid everything for it

[slender ether]

WHAT EVEN IS THE RADIAL MAST

[ember storm]

anyway, so would the original plan just have been taking the veil away from neptune and bringing it to the traveler?

[slender ether]

like it's a light artifact

[ember storm]

nothing important

genuinely

just an artifact with light

that's all that was needed

[slim elk]

Remember:Lightfall writing is best left forgotten

[ember storm]

we destroyed it so the witness just used ghost instead

i honestly have no problem with it at this point

we've got all we needed explained by now

i'm ready to move on

[dim minnow]

the Radial Mast could be something the Witness' people had before the Traveler left them

[ember storm]

exactly my thought

[slender ether]

Witness probably knew calus wasn't gonna do anything if the witness literally told us what calus was gonna do

[ember storm]

they had it for an ungodly amount of time

of course we only learned it 2 seasons later

[restive agate]

Might be a dumb question but what is Ir Yut’s relationship to Crota?

[slim elk]

Honestly, the point that Lightfall fell apart entirely for me was when the Cabal bombed the Cloudark reactor building.... and it had literally zero effects despite us having the "escape the bomb" sequence

[dim minnow]

something like a high-ranking officer I presume

[slender ether]

Wouldn't have worked lore wise anyway too. In destiny 1, cabal have orbital bombed us and we came back dancing😭

[dim minnow]

if our ghosts were caught in it though...

[slim elk]

Not that part, the fact zero damage was done to the reactor lol

When the whole reason we were even there was the Vex screwing with it

[slender ether]

OUR GHOSTS WOULDA LIVED

destiny is weird when it comes to killing ghosts though

[dim minnow]

Petra accidentally killed three fireteams with an airstrike though

as in final-kill

[slim elk]

Just assume Bungie writers tend to ignore some things for drama heh

[slender ether]

How???

[slim elk]

Like.. why havent we strapped up Immaru with an arc band and thrown him into a crate like Ikora is threatening?

[slender ether]

Because it's much funnier to threaten him

[slim elk]

Hes on such thin ice we can literally be an inch away from crushing him and Eris is "yeah, he deserved that"

[dim minnow]

because she didn't think they were capable of clearing out a bunch of Wolves (Fallen from the House of Wolves, not actual wolves)

[slender ether]

That's actually really funny

[dim minnow]

then Mara pretty much exiled her to the Last City for a while, forcing her to work as an Emissary there

[slim elk]

Time to break out da list Dova?

[dim minnow]

he has yet to ask me why I don't like her

[slender ether]

Ok goodnight

[heady gyro]

I feel like based on all the lore everywhere, ghosts just need a suffieciently powerful blow

A shotgun, an energized blade, or just a guardian's super strength

[ember storm]

yeah there's a lore tab specifically about that

a paracausal force is just a guaranteed kill, it's not required

for reference a guardian's fist would count as paracausal force, they're inherently paracausal

[heady gyro]

Oh yeah you put it into words

That's why they use the weapons of sorrow

Since ghosts can take a beating

[ember storm]

not nessecarily

it just means a stray bullet won't kill a ghost

more often than not it's as simple as just killing the guardian which leaves the ghost defenseless and cornered

[heady gyro]

I dont know why ghosts dont just blink into the "backpack"

[ember storm]

strictly speaking we do that to every hive lightbearer and could easily just shoot their ghosts, but gameplay's sake forces us to crush them

[ember storm]

it doesn't exist when the guardian is dead

they can only do it with their guardian

can't do it with a corpse

[heady gyro]

Oh yeah true

We should put cloaking tech on ghosts

Or just teach them to hide under the corpse or smthn

[slim elk]

The smartest ghost in all the Lucent Hive is the one that raised Alak-Hul

When we kill the Lightblade, it runs away via transmat before we can crush it

[dim minnow]

this makes me want to summon Alak-Hul to fight alongside us

[slim elk]

Theres pretty much no reason not for him to be helping us at this point

[real ingot]

Ketchcrash summoning flags but with Lucent Hive

[slim elk]

The whole "savathuns spire" is Immaru just being a jerk

Should have the entire access.. instead we gotta kill everything in there

[dim minnow]

maybe Immaru wants to have the survivors learn from us

have the best ones remain alive

[slim elk]

If that was the case, he would be kneeling before us lol

We took Savathun out in a straight up fight. Sword Logic is clear what that means

[grizzled zinc]

Savathun and immaru don’t really care for sword logic

[frigid sparrow]

How does doing the spire retain our ability to do the altars of summoning? the description says it opens the way to it, which makes sense for the first time, but is it supposed to be like wellspring where we're holding our ground?

[heady gyro]

So real

Smart ghost

Need em on our side

Also when we get launched into the abyss, how does ghost bring us back?

Does he just grab our light before we fall

[dim minnow]

the Spire is mainly so we can enhance our abilities to tithe to Eris Morn

but I suppose that running it repeatedly makes it easier for us to access the Altars

[slim elk]

So..
When's Xivu gonna crash the party?

Been 2 weeks with no activity from her

(Technically months with the dead air weeks from Deep after the story was over.. but think Eris as Hive God would be something to draw Xivus attention)

[grizzled zinc]

we gotta drag eris to titan and get xivu's attention

[unique remnant]

Who would win in a fight? Prime nezerac or rhulk?

[dim minnow]

we don't really know how powerful Nezarec was in his prime

[grizzled zinc]

he was called the final god of pain

he was a disciple

after his death he was split into seperate pieces

he was also often called Hated nezarec.

that's kinda all we know

[slim girder]

Crazy theory I've been thinking about since Eris is now a hive god.
You think she might turn herself into a weapon of sorrow at some point and that will be her full revenge against the hive? The same happened to oryx and now Eris is seen by Xivu as an heir of sorts now so it makes me think events might repeat themselves although we wouldn't actually be killing Eris out of hostility.

[trim grotto]

I... do not think that.

[slim girder]

Idk tends to happen to pretty much every hive god. I'm putting money on Xivu becoming a sword or even a glaive.

[grizzled zinc]

I’m already quite sure we’ll get a sword from xivu

Since

Every time she appears in person in a lore text, her black sword is always mentioned

[grizzled zinc]

What weapon of sorrow did savathun become?

I’m 90% sure osteo striga wasn’t wrought from her remains

[slim girder]

Savathun is a special case since she's not technically dead. Her worm however we put into parasite.

[grizzled zinc]

So one hive god became a weapon of sorrow, and you think that’s implies it happens to every hive god?

Did oryx even become touch of malice?

I don’t think he did

[slim girder]

Yes
Eris created touch of malice but oryx wanted that because he wanted to be used by whoever killed him to enact his logic on the world.

[grizzled zinc]

🗿i see

I don’t think eris will survive this, but i doubt she will become a weapon of sorrow

[slim girder]

I meant more in the sense they are turned into weapons but not weapons of sorrow specifically. It's just oryx became a weapon of sorrow so I made the Eris comparison since rn Eris is apparently the heir to oryx

[grizzled zinc]

didn't mara absorb the power oryx left behind when he died?

wouldn't that make her the heir in some respect?

[slim girder]

Nope
No one took it which is why Xivu and also Toland the shattered are mad at us.

[grizzled zinc]

i see

BLASPHEMY, BLASPHEMY

[slim girder]

Xivu because it's heresy to not take his place
Toland for similar reasons but he just has an opinion

[grizzled zinc]

i doubt we'll get a weapon from eris, though perhaps one forged out of the blood tithes she's sipping up

[slim girder]

Idk who knows really
I wasn't implying it happens this season but Eris has been transformed overtime through her crusade against the hive. She now wields stasis and the magic of the sword logic against the species that took everything from her.

[real ingot]

Part of him

His soul to be specific

[trim grotto]

His heart. Not his soul. We never fulfilled his ritual requirements.

[jagged badge]

It doesn’t even 💀

Oryx? Not a gun. Savathûn? Not a gun

[blazing wasp]

We have guns that are from things that belong to the body of savathun and oryx, but that's about it

[slim girder]

Would his heart kinda count as being "him"? Like that was his goal after all to be used by whoever killed him. Even though he's not actually the weapon itself if that makes sense.

[jagged badge]

Oryx’s consciousness, his being, his soul and whatever are in his body

[trim grotto]

Literally, yes, it is part of his body. But his soul, consciousness, is not part of it.

[slim girder]

Ok then
So he did still get his wish just not in the complete way he intended.

[jagged badge]

Mara did take Oryx’s power. It’s how she came back from her death, and it’s also how she destroyed a Pyramid by herself

[trim grotto]

Pretty much, yes.

Also, yes, Mara took it.

We abandoned it, leaving it for her, as planned.

[real ingot]

Mael can I send the spoon clip in media

[trim grotto]

very well

[slim girder]

I did not know that
I thought mara had just vanished away to hide out in the ascendant plane or where we find her in the dreaming city after the taken war.
I thought that since we didn't take his mantle that included his power as well.

[trim grotto]

After claiming his power, she did return to Eleusinia.

[jagged badge]

Nah she dead

And then she returned from dead

[trim grotto]

Indeed

Though it was a bit of a process

What with the Throne becoming Shattered and all

[jagged badge]

Why didn’t she tell her Techeuns of the plan properly?

Iirc, the Dreaming City was only Taken because one of the Techeuns had her selfgate open just too long in an attempt to save Mara

Unless I’m wrong and misremembered/heard complete bullshit

[trim grotto]

What happened to them is exactly why. They were Taken immediately afterwards, thus proving her point of keeping secrets to one person as a failsafe.

But on the other hand, yes, they may not have been Taken at all had the portal not been left open as it was.

It's a two-sided issue.

[slim girder]

Right
Eris spoke like she was still completely fine after we "defeated" oryx in the campaign so I assumed she had just escaped from the blast the dreadnaught let out.

[jagged badge]

Fair point yeah

[trim grotto]

Oh no no
She very much died
She was trapped in the Ascendant Plane, waiting, watching

Just barely made it back to Eleusinia

The Ascendant Plane nearly corroded her away

[jagged badge]

What’s that quote describing her plan? The bank heist one?

[trim grotto]

Are we referring to bomb logic or?

[slim girder]

Would "gravely wounded" be a good way to put it?

[trim grotto]

Well. No, since she was straight up dead.

[jagged badge]

Instead, she has enlisted Eris and several million mad dancing Guardians to go knock off the god who killed her. It is, on that level, a very simple bank heist: Get yourself taken into the treasury as treasure, and when the owner dies, break back out with his stuff.

[trim grotto]

Ah, that one.

[grizzled zinc]

Can’t wait to have eris’s appendix as an exotic weapon

[slim girder]

Idk in my eyes being stuck in the ascendant plain but still alive isn't "dead" if that makes sense
I'm not denying she didn't die or anything because she did but if she just got stuck in a ascendant plane but was still alive then I wouldn't really call that being dead at least in the normal sense.

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/reverie-dawn-suit-titan
Anyway, you may find this relevant, Retro. Particularly the Gauntlets.

[slim girder]

Cheers

I'll give it a read

[trim grotto]

It is as dead as any Ascendant being with a Throne World is

[jagged badge]

[trim grotto]

No true death, but dead and death nonetheless

[grizzled zinc]

I hope we get the humerus of xivu arath as an exotic one day

[slim girder]

Anyway just a crazy theory I was thinking about since everyone is on the necrochasm weapon of sorrow hype train. And how weapons of sorrow actually came to be.

[grizzled zinc]

Necrochasm is explicitly a hive artifact

[fresh zephyr]

we need a hive sword as an exotic

[grizzled zinc]

Meaning the hive took an existing weapon and corrupted it with darkness and hive voodoo

[slim girder]

Isn't that the definition of a weapon of sorrow though? A combination of humanitys mastery of war (weapon) and the hive magic or as you put it voodoo (sword logic)?

[fresh zephyr]

let's give telesto to the hive

get eris to do smth to it

[slim girder]

Apologies if that isn't correct

[trim grotto]

Technically, yes. But that's simultaneously very vague and very specific.
I, for one, believe there's more to it. A Weapon of Sorrow is a weapon that is hungry. It desires to kill. Thorn, Osteo, Necrochasm, they're weapons that have earned their titles.

[slim girder]

Right
I do also think there's more to it but I was trying to summarise it a little is all
Like osteo seems to be able to "talk" to its user "I do love my little osteo striga"

[fresh zephyr]

darci also talks to u

[trim grotto]

Oh, not so much. Jana-14 was a scientist who was experimenting on Thorn. The real Thorn. It drove her... insane. She created Osteo Striga, feeds it human bone.

She was speaking to the desecrated corpse she was tearing ribs from to feed her gun.

//EVIDENCE IDENT #303, AUDIO DEVICE; RECOVERED ADJACENT TO DISMEMBERED BODY, RIBS EXCISED```

[trim grotto]

That's because DARCI has an in-built AI in it yeah

[fresh zephyr]

Jesus christ d2 lore gets dark

[grizzled zinc]

This one was explicitly made by the hive though

[slim girder]

Ok then I'm mistaken then. I could have sworn the story was the gun was egging her on to feed it like a mother would a child sort of.

[grizzled zinc]

Others, like all of the thorns

Were not made by the hive

[fresh zephyr]

I wonder

so like

in the intro cinematic

the guys have guns

m4s

I wonder if they had em on the moon

[grizzled zinc]

They are also in space

[fresh zephyr]

cuz u can find dead astronauts

(which I find is pretty neat)

[jagged badge]

The Shadowkeep destination weapons are all old Golden Age weapons constructed for the Lunar Colony

[fresh zephyr]

there should be more skeletons around the maps imo

[fresh zephyr]

yeah i can tell

[jagged badge]

That we then dress up with the anti-Nightmare charms and shit

[fresh zephyr]

but I wonder if like

some could be turned by the hive

[grizzled zinc]

All the moon weapons should get damage boosts to nightmares, if they don’t already lol

They have the whole anti-nightmare talisman thing going on

The talismans glow in the presence of some nightmares

[slim girder]

Didn't the armour originally have a DR against nightmares?

[grizzled zinc]

Still do

The instrinsic mod

[jagged badge]

There are Nightmare mods you can equip to the Dreambane armour but it’s not an intrinsic bonus to the armour with no mod

[slim girder]

Ah I remember now

[grizzled zinc]

Yea

It’s like a raid mod

[slim girder]

They were meant for the nightmare hunt activities mostly. Surprised nezerec didn't do any nightmare kind of stuff now that you mention it. It was his pyramid on the moon even though we didn't know at the time.

Lightfall launch the guy was a literal nightmare among the neomuni in cloudark

[grizzled zinc]

I wish bungie did more worldspace changes to fit with the narrative

Like removing the pyramid from the moon post-shadowkeep

And adding savathun’s spire into the worldspace

[real ingot]

Pretty sure you can see Sav's spire

and the lunar moon never left

[grizzled zinc]

🗿how did i not notice then

[grizzled zinc]

Idk what this statement means

[real ingot]

lunar pyramid I meant

[slim girder]

Wait
The lunar pyramid left the moon???

[grizzled zinc]

The lunar pyramid should’ve left the moon, no? It’s nezzy’s pyramid

That was what i thought was implied

🗿

[slim girder]

Calus tried to connect with it but we stopped him so it's still stuck there

[real ingot]

It didn't?

The RoN pyramid was the Witness'

[slim girder]

Nezzy was just a corpse the traveler "accidentally" shot when they were aiming for the witness.

[grizzled zinc]

OH.

How did nezzy’s remains get there!?

His head

I mean

The rest became tea

[real ingot]

Calus likely took it during Haunted

[slim girder]

His eyes have some significance I'm pretty sure. Like as long as something of him lives he can be brought back

[grizzled zinc]

He’s wolverine

[slim girder]

He was supposed to be revived but when the traveler hit him he came out as this abomination. The whole theme of the raid was light and dark mixing together but nezerec was those 2 forces just not working together.

He's not supposed to look like he's got massive gains.

Going off the statue in the lightfall cutscene he's supposed to resemble a more grim reaper style of character design.

[grizzled zinc]

I play voidwalker

I know what nezzy lookin like most of the time

He looks like edgy xur

[heavy shore]

Who wins. Prime oryx or God of war universe (the whole thing)

[real ingot]

rules of Paracausality dictates Oryx

[trim grotto]

[heavy shore]

I feel like oryx would win

[real ingot]

GoW gods gotta cause shit

Oryx just

[heavy shore]

(I just watched dynasty I totally know everything)

[real ingot]

does

[trim grotto]

Dynasty? I wouldn't use Dynasty as a reference.

[real ingot]

Dynasty just a recap last I checked

[heavy shore]

Me standing over you (I’m not oryx. I’m just kinda tall)

[trim grotto]

...uh huh.

[ember storm]

is that the byf video

[trim grotto]

Yes.

[jagged badge]

Byf

[heavy shore]

It was a good video tho

[ember storm]

did he say shivu arath in there too

[tawdry mauve]

holy shit xivu arath

[empty fern]

Anyways

Any differences in the crota lore between 1 and 2?

[jolly vector]

new stuff from necrochasm

crota basically found some thing traveler related and studied it with a couple more hive weapon master to make weapons of sorrow

[empty fern]

Neat

So like

Wait

I wonder, is lumina a uhhh, not sorrow weapon but like

Traveler version

[jolly vector]

I mean it got cleansed by us so I guess

[shadow warren]

Weapon of happy

[trim grotto]

Hope.

[jolly vector]

its not really new lore, but its making the lore of sorrow weapons more coherent

[shadow warren]

Weapon of glee

Do we know how many weapons of sorrow there are

[jolly vector]

thorn, osteo, touch, necro

these are straight up confirmed by bungo so just those 4

someone asked about lemon being 1 and got turn down by the dev

[shadow warren]

No more that have been mentioned in the lore

[jolly vector]

some I guess but no more details

like enkaar being the weapon master to make weapons of sorrow uses a weapon that might be 1

its name is even "proto-thorn" lmao

[shadow warren]

Oh he was in the last word quest wasn’t he

[jolly vector]

you can see him using it in the last word mission

this funky shit

[shadow warren]

Ye

[jolly vector]

would be cool if we get more sorrow weapons

eris literally made touch of malice

so enkaar being dead dont even matter much

[trim grotto]

to be fair Touch of Malice was never considered a Weapon of Sorrow until Dpedia willed it into existence again

apart from the actual gameplay and game dev factors it still isn't described as one

[jolly vector]

didnt opulence lore just make it an equal to thorn and nechrochasm?

[trim grotto]

Thorn. The Touch of Malice. Necrochasm. There are so many weapons in the arsenal of Light that deliver payloads full of Hive words.
Yes, but no mention of a Weapon of Sorrow.
Also, y'know, Calus said it.

[jolly vector]

foiled by ambiguity again

[slim elk]

Now Guardians have escalated to full on Sword Logic use and even tithing to a Hive God...

[jolly vector]

eris bout to be a fucking uber hive god fr

literally not boged down by a worm and her champ is a multiple god killer

[slim elk]

Where's the line between light and dark now?
..
Sword Logic was about the last "definitive" aspect left

[trim grotto]

Let's cross it together.

[jolly vector]

guess that's the theme now

[trim grotto]

Look, I'm not exactly happy about it, but I trust Eris.

[jolly vector]

going deeper and deeper into the darkness but still being ourself

[slim elk]

I take the opposite perspective with it Mael
Finally decided to cut any "barrier" between the two

If only Shin would show up...

[jagged badge]

Cheers

[ember storm]

greetings protozoans