📚lore-discussion

[real ingot]

Yeah it was funny

[dim minnow]

I wonder if I can get the Eager Edge cat editor guy to give him the sword

[trim grotto]

Woke up, ate breakfast, walked dogs up in the forest
Now I am free until work

[real ingot]

YOU HAVE DOGS

[shadow jay]

show dogs

[trim grotto]

Will show dogs later
I made tea and have shower now

[dim minnow]

anyone know how I can get a hold of the guy who edits The Other Half sword onto cats?

[outer dragon]

I wish that the Nerf Gally out of the box was better

Right now to get decent performance you have to use third party 3dprinted shells for the darts because the ones that shipped with it have holes that drastically cut pressure

[heady gyro]

I need you to curate the doggo pictures

[heady gyro]

What's their username on ig or twitter?

[dim minnow]

@oddmb_

twitter handle I believe

want me to repost the pic in media chat?

[wheat lava]

We’re getting irl lore in here now

[remote sky]

Describe the dumbest moment in destiny lore history in the worst way possible

I'm just wondering what you guys think is so damn ridiculous here in the story

[dim minnow]

like what do you mean by dumb

dumb as in funny, or dumb as in bad writing?

[remote sky]

both, honestly

like maybe how calus has come back three fucking times

[jagged badge]

Huh?

[real ingot]

He hasn't

we never killed him

[jagged badge]

Wdym “come back”?

[dim minnow]

we never killed him until Lightfall

[remote sky]

uh

first time, y'know, we met him

he went byebye

[dim minnow]

reminder, Leviathan was a robot controlled by him

[remote sky]

then he became a robot???

and then lf

three times

[dim minnow]

his mind is connected to those robots

allows him to control him

in the end of Haunted, he wasn't killed, he just sent himself over to the Witness

[remote sky]

ah yadda yadda they let him bounce back and fourth in and out of the pool same same houblajiblyjabla

[real ingot]

that was a robot

[remote sky]

the first calus was a robot..?

I thought that was haunted calus

[ember storm]

did you look at him?

the leviathan raid literally ends with us going down and seeing rows upon rows of robots

[remote sky]

I never did thay

[ember storm]

we never phyiscally met Calus until LF

[remote sky]

because
y'know
I joined during wq

[queen walrus]

The witness is just the entire race of the dwemer.

[ember storm]

before he hid behind the images of his robots and his statues because he was way fatter and uglier

[dim minnow]

basically a raisin

[remote sky]

of course

[ember storm]

this is during the raid

[remote sky]

built like a bottle of ketchup

[ember storm]

essentially just a chuck e cheese animatronic using psion magic

[remote sky]

that reminds me
have we even seen what species psions are under the mask? have we ever even seen under the mask, at the very least?

[dim minnow]

WILLIAM AFTON IN DESTINY 2!

[remote sky]

HOPY SHIT

[dim minnow]

yes

[remote sky]

pics?

[remote sky]

AH JESUS

pfp material

[dim minnow]

we also have an official illustration of a skinny cabal

[remote sky]

I dunno if I wanna see it..
I do
I definitely do

[dim minnow]

this shit is hilarious

[remote sky]

LMAO

[ember storm]

their face is always peeking out

basically jusst wearing a mouth covering

[dim minnow]

as of D2, D1 psions had hidden faces

[remote sky]

what?? I always thought it was a helmet

[ember storm]

because D1 cabal had entirely different models

and i will say it

they were shit

[dim minnow]

would be nice to see them back though

[remote sky]

yeah they had to wear compressor suit or sum??

[dim minnow]

we got D1 Hive models in Shadowkeep, D1 Fallen models in Beyond Light

[ember storm]

presumably because they were research teams and unsure if anything in sol was suitable for them to be in without

nowadays cabal seem pretty lax about that

[dim minnow]

nah, red legion are just better funded

[ember storm]

my man does not belong here

[remote sky]

MOHAWK

yeah so you telling me ALL OF THE CABAL WE FIGHT, NO MATTER WHERE IN THE GAME, is all red legion?

like

trap the traveler, steal our light red legion?

[ember storm]

not as of now

there's the shadow legion

[dim minnow]

Red Legion is pretty much done for now

[ember storm]

but before LF that was how it was, yeah

they were the main army of the empire so when they pulled up all other legions were either absorbed or removed

[remote sky]

huh.

[remote sky]

so hit me with this?

[ember storm]

cayde barely surviving a fire fight and deciding it's a great opportunity to stand directly still and summon his ghost in the presence of the scorn barons, all eagerly waiting to get revenge, one of which literally named "the rifleman"

[dim minnow]

the Awoken were created because of a rabbit embryo

[ember storm]

sexually charged oryx stageplay

[dim minnow]

Uldren's trip to the Black Garden left him so mentally screwed that he imagined a female cabal bathing in a laundromat while a Vex was selling someone detergent

[remote sky]

[ember storm]

the universe is under threat by a bunch of nihilist redditors

[remote sky]

HUH.

[ember storm]

the witness used to be an entire civilization blessed by the traveler

[remote sky]

that would explain the faces, yeah.

[ember storm]

but decided infinite prosperity was boring and made their goal the final shape

aka the extinction of everything, essentially

because life is a pointless struggle and they're "saving" everyone from it

[remote sky]

kinda dumb ngl

[remote sky]

nevermind

[dim minnow]

more accurately, the Witness' race saw that the Light was capable of great destruction

[remote sky]

damn uhh

[dim minnow]

did you also want me to explain the rabbit embryo one?

[ember storm]

peacefully sleeping in my bed before a bunch of beady eyed aliens started chanting SALVATION SALVATION SALVATION

DROWNDROWNDROWN

[remote sky]

can't wait to find the sources of all this in lightfall
Just glad you haven't directly spoiled the big plot twist at the end of light fall

[remote sky]

and the Laundromat one, too, please
lmao

[ember storm]

wanna see the oryx stageplay or no

[remote sky]

I'm not even sure what you mean

[ember storm]

exactly what it sounds like

[smoky rose]

It’s vaguely sexual in nature

[ember storm]

the taken war was ultimately a nothing event for guardians in terms of loss so there wasn't much reason to get hung up about it

which led one ghost to decide to make a stageplay about it

where the ghost is playing our guardian character

[remote sky]

[ember storm]

and their guardian is playing our ghost

[dim minnow]

ok, so during the Golden Age while Mara Sov and her family were still human, she witnessed a rabbit embryo crash into her coworker's helmet while they were out in space, killing him. And due to reasons Mara can't really explain, seeing this event compelled her to ask her mother if they can go on the Yang Liwei (Exodus Green)

[ember storm]

and another ghost is playing oryx

and also the ghost is the writer and director

and the play is called "Oryx the Nightmare Daddy"

[remote sky]

[dim minnow]

the Ghost who wrote the play is Didi, Marcus Ren's ghost

Marcus Ren being a famous sparrow racer

[dim minnow]

This then follows the chain of events where Mara became popular on the ship (to the point where people left her tips and drew fanart) and then it got sucked into a singularity made from a calamity between Light and Dark. As a result, the crew and passengers were all oblitrated and reborn as the Awoken. Mara Sov was the first to awake so she made the rest of them in her image.

[remote sky]

this.. explains nothing
why was there an embryo?? wtf does Exodus Green have to do with anything??
I am utterly clueless as to the true lore
that 2 hour movie told me nothing!

[remote sky]

ah

[dim minnow]

never really an explanation for how the embryo got there, maybe it fell out of a ship

then gravity acted as a slingshot

[ember storm]

the awoken derive from a colony ship that was caught in the middle of the fight between the traveler and the pyramids

[dim minnow]

and the man was at the wrong place at the wrong time

[ember storm]

mara was on that ship because she watched someone's head explode and saw it as a "well you only live once better do something meaningful with my life"

the fanart thing is real by the way

[dim minnow]

the actual explanation for why it compelled her is something only clear to herself

[remote sky]

so he got.. I forgot the word, but he got his brain fucking removed by a speeding unborn rabbit and that leads to them turning into Thanoskin. got it

[ember storm]

she just amassed a fanbase on the colony ship

[dim minnow]

anyways, as for the laundromat thing

Uldren Sov went into the Black Garden at one point and the experience broke him

He was in an apartment block. He remembers that. He was sitting in the laundry room, a place with a black-and-white checkered tile floor, watching his crows tumble over and over in the dryer, black feathers flurrying, beaks clacking. A big old female Cabal sat in the tub to his left, scrubbing her back with a wire brush. A Vex Goblin with the face of Alis Li in its stomach stood behind the counter, selling detergent. "Uldren," she said, "you've got a hole in you." The Cabal grunted in agreement. He looked down at himself and there was a hole in his hand, black and perfectly round. His dryer ran out of time, but his crows were still wet.

"Uldren." Mara, shaking him. She does not ordinarily touch anyone. "Did you see the heart?"```

this event happened a little bit before D1 by the way

because the Black Garden's Heart wasn't destroyed

[remote sky]

..what even did the black garden do? why did we destroy it's heart
poor thing

[ember storm]

it wasn't a real heart, to be clear

you said you're still playing LF, right?

[remote sky]

haven't even started

might start tonight tho

[ember storm]

do you care about spoilers

[remote sky]

Somewhat

[dim minnow]

do you care if we spoil lore from the post-campaign exotic quest?

[remote sky]

I just eanna experience plot twists

so keep offa plot twist territory and all should be well

[ember storm]

do you mean real plot twists or just actual narrative beats

[remote sky]

like
let's say

traveller is actually a space ship piloted by the nine plot twist idk

[ember storm]

a plot twist is like rahool taking off a rubber mask and revealing it was savathun the whole time

[remote sky]

yeah

[dim minnow]

well, I'd say the stuff on the BGH in that exotic quest aren't really in that territory, so I should be fine

[remote sky]

NOT AGAIN!

[dim minnow]

then again, I don't really need to go into those details to explain why the Heart was bad

ok, so the BGH was pretty much preventing the Traveler from awakening

[remote sky]

and this was bad for what reason at the time?

[dim minnow]

and according to the Dark Future, if we did not destroy it, then it would of corrupted the guardians

[remote sky]

that.. would suck

[dim minnow]

the Traveler is very important to us

the source of our power and such

[remote sky]

kinda like what Elsie said? The guardians got addicted to darkness?

[remote sky]

talking about the dark future, I mean

[ember storm]

indirectly, i think

the black heart's existence was essentially draining the traveler of energy and power

[dim minnow]

I'm thinking that it corrupted Guardians a similar way the Veil did to ||Maya Sundaresh and the Witness' race||

this stuff isn't really LF campaign territory

[remote sky]

still don't know what the veil or who Maya is so it'll make sense to me later

[ember storm]

the traveler wouldn't have done any of the cool epic things we've seen since we destroyed the black heart which i think could've contributed to guardians seeing it as just a dead god not worth protecting

[dim minnow]

Traveler reforming in the end of Arrivals was amazing

[remote sky]

but it also attracted the pyramids, right?

or was that another thing
I forget

[dim minnow]

in the end of the Red War, the Traveler woke up which is what triggered the Pyramids

[remote sky]

there we go

[ember storm]

basically we learned a while ago that savathun did some trolling during the collapse that helped the traveler survive

[dim minnow]

and so the Traveler had chunks of its shell orbiting it for at least 3 years

[remote sky]

I still think it's funny that the traveller appeared in the sky for eliksni and they decided to treat it like family
"BIG WHITE BALL IN SKY!! WE LOVE BIG WHITE BALL! WE'RE GONNA NAME YOU GEORGE!"

[dim minnow]

I find it more tragic

[ember storm]

i mean when the big white ball starts turning the dead rocks in your solar system into perfectly habitable paradises what are you going to think

[dim minnow]

the Traveler knew that if it stayed, then bad things would happen, but it longed for the kinship and love so much that it prolonged its departure

[remote sky]

fair, fair

[remote sky]

which made everything worse

I wish the traveler could like

make noises OR SOMETHING

whale song. it'll be like crying as it departs, maybe leave a few gifts for the eliksni before it goes idk

[ember storm]

actually it's the only real reason the eliksni survived

[remote sky]

I know

but now they're all pissed and sad and want it back

they've become angry and selfish because it stayed

[ember storm]

if you mean now as in like 7 years ago

eliksni now either don't give a shit about it, are already peaceful and living directly under the traveler, or want to destroy it completely

[remote sky]

which, I mean, technically, that was selfish of the traveler that it did stay
it knew the risks
it just stayed because it missed being loved
make the sacrifices man!!!

[remote sky]

So.. chill eliksni roaming the world
eliksni in the tower
and salvation

[dim minnow]

Salvation either has the bad ones, or the refugees

[ember storm]

i would describe dusk as more a bunch of hipsters farting around the solar system that are too indecisive to pick a side

[dim minnow]

several members of House Light were former House Salvation

[remote sky]

dusk is purple, yeeeess? [insect-like chittering]

[ember storm]

they stole the banners of another house yeah

[remote sky]

.
oh

I think I'ma just rewatch the lore movie tonight

[ember storm]

totally not bungie just making it up on the spot to cover up the fact dusk models were used during a fight in the past before it existed

definitely not

no way whatsoever

[remote sky]

[dim minnow]

remember, Bungie made House of Rain (an exinct house that existed during the Dark Age) wear the same armor and colors as Dusk in lore so they would not have to make designs for a new House for a season

and it it was as a lot more clever than it was annoying

because House of Rain was known for prophecies one of which being the whole Kell of Kells uniting all houses one

[remote sky]

what even is strand
is it light, is it dark? or did we just discover it by pure fucking luck

[fiery lily]

It’s for sure darkness. We did kinda find it by luck. It’s essentially the threads of collective consciousness

[remote sky]

wait
so like..
persona???

I thought it was the threads of reality

[fiery lily]

Haven’t played it, so maybe?

It allows one to manipulate the Weave, a matrix of psychic energy that connects all things and minds in the universe.

[smoky rose]

Basically, yes

[remote sky]

oh okay
so I'm still allowed to believe the cabal are fucking terrified when they watch us rip the very fiber of their comrades out of existence 😄

[outer dragon]

Cabal are not afraid of death in battle

Its like their thing and why Caital was sorta happy that Calus died in battle

[fresh zephyr]

When our ghost talks about what happened in the events of red war to forsaken, is that the witness speaking or the ghost itself? (Final mission of shadowkeep)

[ancient elk]

During a lot of Eris voice lines, she keeps saying “Aiat” what does this mean? Is it the name of someone?

[ember storm]

hive phrase basically amounting to amen

or as i like to put it, "it is what it is"

[frigid sparrow]

you can make it eman anything you want

make it whatever's funniest

[dim minnow]

THE UNENLIGHTENED MASSES

THEY CANNOT MAKE THE JUDGEMENT CALL

GIVE UP FREE WILL FOREVER

YOUR VOICES WON'T BE HEARD AT ALL

[slim elk]

Metal Gear Rising.. a classic

[and the song is rather fitting with Witness-Neomuna]

[dim minnow]

LIVE IN IGNORANCE AND PURCHASE YOUR HAPPINESS
-Neomuna be like

[slim elk]

Didnt expect Esi to turn out to be such a massive hypocrite in the end

Though, think the story would have been better if Lakshmi "won"

[dim minnow]

what did she do that was hypocritical again?

I know Maya was very much a hypocrite

pretty much regressing into what Clovis did

[slim elk]

Her reasoning for rewriting history on the Veil was "letting go"

[dim minnow]

I thought it was more of not letting the Veil cause any more harm

[slim elk]

... then in effectively the same sentence decides to make a deal with the Vex to see "maya:" again

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C-_ysHJAo0E

[slim elk]

0:58 here

"If we learned anything from the Veil, it's that eventually.. we all have to learn to let go."

immediately then runs off to the Vex to see a fake Maya again

[dim minnow]

could be interpreted in a darker way

maybe her jumping into Vex hell was her way of letting go

[slim elk]

Just the earlier bits of the log really paint it as a massive hypocrisy

Couldnt "let go" of Maya

[dim minnow]

Avlus has an idea that maybe it's about letting go of a goal

[slim elk]

Shrug

As said earlier, think the story would work better if Maya-Lakshmi won

[dim minnow]

do we even know what Maya was doing?

Maya wasn't even really stopped by anyone

maybe she did win and we just didn't know

[slim elk]

Based off the fact her stuff was the basis for the Cloudark?
Might be proto-witness creation stuff

As it stands for me.. Lakshmi winning would fit better for the odd semi-religious icongraphy we see in the Cloudark containments entrance

And the general state of Neomuna with the odd thing of Lakshmi having every reason to expose Neomunas location after what Esi did... but didnt..

[dim minnow]

as far as we know, she didn't go through any resets

[slim elk]

Yep.. and Esi delibaretly had the "contact mission" true objective to have her be dumped on Earth.. which had become a hellhole after the Collapse in the midst of the Dark Ages

for the crimes of..... existing?

[dim minnow]

just out of grief really

[slim elk]

Yeah.. so... why didnt Lakshmi expose the existence of Neomuna?

[dim minnow]

if I'm correct, she seemed to be in a child-like mindset at that time

[slim elk]

Yeah..
like said, general apperance of Neomuna doesnt help either. Esi wanted the Veil buried
Present Day? Neomuna literally has everything hardwired into the Veil

.. even kids

[dim minnow]

in that case, you think Maya did win in the end?

[slim elk]

Shrug
Just feels better if would of had Maya-Lakshmi be behind the conspiracy... with Lakshmi on Earth as a "spy" to influence the Guardians-recover the FWC tech

[dim minnow]

main point of the Veil Containment logs was really to draw parallels between Maya and Osiris and to show how far he's come

[slim elk]

on that note.. has there been any signs of him in this seasons lore?

Think he would have.... words regarding resurrecting Savathun

[dim minnow]

I believe so

he is accepting

but not forgiving

Saint ahs a talk with him about it

Saint is revealed to be far more apprehensive about the idea than Osiris

and he is offput by how Osiris is somehow not as apprehensive

[slim elk]

The mans been humbled quite a bit

still has the bad habits though

[dim minnow]

well let's see, he got over Sagira's death, reflected on his past and how he was too close to being like Maya

[slim elk]

Yeah, still stowed away in a cabal ship with no plan or backup

[dim minnow]

?

oh right

[slim elk]

Lightfall opening...?

[dim minnow]

yeah I know

thing is that was before he got humbled

well after, but what I mean is that it was before he developed

[timber stump]

The first lore book page from this season is Osiris and Saint talking about resurrecting Savathun. Saint is concerned about how seemingly calm Osiris is taking it.

[slim elk]

Just say he still has bad habits lol

[dim minnow]

I wouldn't list stuff that happens during the LF campaign here

since his developments happen towards the end/after the campaign

like him figuring out how to harness Strand, the Deterministic Chaos quest, and Veil Containment Logs

they all show how he has progressed as a character

[slim elk]

Yeah, definitely has progressed there. Still expecting him to not have all his bad habits removed

Just trying to figure out the seasonal arc here... we just had the "ink blot" cutscene that usually is the midpoint of the story

[dim minnow]

I think he's mainly moved away from those bad habits

hmmm

maybe the arc is going to focus on Xivu's copium

and we spent all this time seeing her as a major threat

only for her to likely be demoted to seasonal enemy status

granted she has been seasonal enemy multiple times so far

but it is funny to see how she hasn't really changed from Xi Ro

she wants a world full of love but no grief

and she see no irony in that

guess no one's told her that grief is love endearing

[slim elk]

Savathun did straight up call her a hypocrite in the recording Immaru had

[dim minnow]

even Oryx wasn't on any copium

he knew he was fucked but was still like "oh sweet, the release of death"

[slim elk]

I mean.. hell. Xivu is literally hiding on the Dreadnought ranting and raving at us

Yet refuses to show personally

[dim minnow]

I wonder if he would even be that mad if he realised we wouldn't take his throne

this Xivu stuff really is a huge twist

[slim elk]

Just hoping we have a hat trick of the Hive Gods all dead by the end of the season

[dim minnow]

and the funny thing is that it makes perfect sense

[smoky rose]

Dova have you read about the flesh cathedrals

That have little hairs that cause them to contract when hit by a stiff breeze

[slim elk]

Another funny thing... the Guardians using the sword logic is seemingly breaking the final "taboo" of darkness use

[dim minnow]

huh?

[smoky rose]

It's one of the Sororicide tabs

That I had drop

[dim minnow]

don't think I have

[smoky rose]

It's uh

[slim elk]

Ahh.. Discus is talking about lore from the Card deck

[smoky rose]

7

[dim minnow]

which attunement did you choose?

[smoky rose]

Arc

[slim elk]

Arc'

[dim minnow]

ah I see

[smoky rose]

Yeah hang on Ill post it

[dim minnow]

I went with Solar

[smoky rose]

I fucking hate it

It's gross

[slim elk]

HR Giger is proud lol

[dim minnow]

I think I will wait until next week when I unlock the arc attunement

[smoky rose]

Is it 1 or 2 week delay between attunements

[dim minnow]

I'd say 1

[dim minnow]

I believe this week's seasonal story has 7 weeks to it

[smoky rose]

I really hope we get to see it one day but holy shit it's fucked up

Like I get sick just reading it

[dim minnow]

in another one, it describes Xivu Arath's throne as having a beautiful garden reminiscent of Fundament

little bit of contrast there

I also like how Savathun led Xivu Arath to Torobatl as a way to call her both a hypocrite and ungrateful

hypocritical in that Torobatl was a "gift" which is not allowed in Sword Logic

ungrateful in that Xivu didn't even thank Savathun for leading her there

[slim elk]

Watch the end of Xivu be her yelling for a battle as we watch her worm eat her

[dim minnow]

would be interesting to see a Hive god killed by their own worm

imagine a scenario where we never pursued Oryx past Regicide

[slim elk]

Depends what Bungie is willing to do
Eris is proclaiming her domain as "vengeance"

[dim minnow]

Oryx was just left in his Dreadnaught forced to watch his bloodline wiped out one-by-one while their broods delve into heresy

[slim elk]

So any attempts by Xivu to "avenge" oryx by killing us would fall into Eris domain.. thus drawing power

[dim minnow]

also from some dialogue, it isn't just Altars that has us tithe to her

apparently fighting in the crucible counts as well

[slim elk]

Pretty much any kill we do

[dim minnow]

and with enough guardians, we will pretty much easily catch up to Xivu

[slim elk]

I like it cause it finally breaks the "final taboo" we had... Guardians are straight up using Sword Logic

And... that parts iffy

[smoky rose]

And gambit

[slim elk]

Xivu has a millenia long head start

Genocided mutiple species personally

Now, can potentially hijack some of Savathuns stuff... that would be interesting

Hijack Imbaru and whatever Savathun is doing with the curse in the dreaming city

The crucible line... well.. maybe can just have Eris kill us and or Savathun repeatedly lol

[rich veldt]

you mean apprently testing guns on random fallen

like cmon bungie you should know people test guns on dregs in the edz not gambit

[little gorge]

immaru has no idea about the gambit player counts

[rigid flower]

Just read a matter of distrust, I wonder if we're gonna get a week or two surrounding Elsie.

[opaque bobcat]

because of the offscreen alternate reality

[jagged badge]

Hm?

[empty fern]

Dark futures I think?

[jagged badge]

Ohh

[fiery copper]

Crazy? I was crazy once. They locked me in a zone. A darkness zone. A darkness zone with overloads. And overloads makes me crazy

[little gorge]

she got a lore book entry

[fresh zephyr]

what's the thing on the top left shining down the light onto the structure on the right?

[empty fern]

Savathuns sun

[fresh zephyr]

actually?

wait is the throneworld basically a world she made out of her ass

and can do whatever she wants there

[empty fern]

Welll

She did state that everything in the throne world is noticed in her mind so probably

In the ritual mission

[fresh zephyr]

hm

if savathun is dead, why is the thronewolrd still up then?

and how di da pyramid manage to get in that world

without savathun kicking it out

[velvet flax]

The Pyramid was there before Savathun ascended to the Light

Rhulk was there to oversee the Worm production from the Throne World

When Savathun became a Lightbearer and transformed her Throne World, Rhulk tried to use the Upended on it but Savathun caused it to backfire, disabling the Pyramid

Savathun then magically trapped Rhulk within his Pyramid

[fresh zephyr]

what's the upended?

i forgor

[shadow warren]

Rhulks doomsday machine

[shadow warren]

Did she allow him in?

[velvet flax]

Yea probably

Rhulk was sent there by The Witness as punishment

Since Rhulk failed at uplifting a civilisation to the ideologies of The Witness, instead they had a nuclear civil war and wiped each other out

As well as overseeing the Worm production, he was to help facilitate turning Savathun into a Disciple

[shadow warren]

Ah gotcha

[patent swallow]

didnt she trap him somehow

[empty fern]

Ye

[shadow warren]

I think that was after she obtained the light but ye

Is xivu a disciple? Or is she also a “disciple in training”

[fresh zephyr]

she a bitch is what she is

(Lore accurate btw)

[empty fern]

No she’s just angry at what we did to oryx (hence why savathun called her a hypocrite)

No affiliation, just following sword logic

[shadow warren]

No connection to the witness at all? Like the witness isn’t watching her or smthn

[empty fern]

I think he’s watching her but no connections

[shadow warren]

I feel like I heard about some connection but I don’t know from where

Hm alr

[empty fern]

Remember they fought? Xivu and witnesses scorn?

[shadow warren]

Nope lol

[empty fern]

Damn

It was from seraph I think

First battleground

Wait

No that was just fallen

[shadow warren]

What’s the deal with the pyramid room thing in deep dives then? Where she led us for wicked implement

Did she just find it and take control of it

[empty fern]

Hmmm

@ember storm help

[ember storm]

hello cheesers

[empty fern]

Help me

[empty fern]

Enlighten me of xivus connection to the witness

[ember storm]

unpaid intern

basically same party as Eramis except she also gets to bully Eramis

[empty fern]

@shadow warren there

[shadow warren]

I see I see

[fresh zephyr]

who are you, so wise in the ways of lore

[empty fern]

The downer itself

[full trellis]

Hey friends I have a lore question I've always been curious about. Why are most Psions small and nimble with big brain power and then some others which we saw in for instance season of the risen massive?

[empty fern]

Ranking

[fast tapir]

okay I searched it up and uhh is this true?

"Psions are also capable of a permanent form of metaconcert called "joining", in which they fuse their bodies and minds into a larger, more powerful Psion."

[empty fern]

Like fallen with ether, cabal use ranking and things, mael will explain it

[fast tapir]

because if it is

holy that's cool

[trim grotto]

Yes, it happened in Season of Dawn.

[empty fern]

The trio?

[velvet flax]

Inotam

[trim grotto]

Psion Flayers! The way they "evolve" isn't particularly clear, though some in Warmind attempted to evolve using Rasputin's... power. Somehow.

Either way, they're regular Psions who have grown more adept and powerful.

[full trellis]

That's awesome

Thanks guys ❤️

[velvet flax]

Ozletc, Niruul and Tazaroc are the ones from Season Of Dawn and they become Inotam

[full trellis]

So they kinda do a mini witness

[velvet flax]

Uhh sort of

[full trellis]

But without giving up their old bodies

[trim grotto]

In a manner of speaking, I suppose

[full trellis]

It's like a megazord

That's really interesting

[empty fern]

Another lore question

I’ve been looking at taken models of some enemies, why do they have these 2 pincer like thinks sticking out their back?

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-destiny2-taken-taken-ogre-ogre-gif-23834013

Like in the ogre

Back spikes and

[trim grotto]

There's not much of a real lore answer here beyond some very vague speculation

[empty fern]

F

Gimme the spec

[trim grotto]

For example, it could have been part of the form of the being before it was Taken. Ogres sometimes are just Like That™️, such as with Golgoroth.

[full trellis]

Think they are the bones on a hive but then when they become taken they just look awesome as they serve no purpose

[fast tapir]

so they can poke their enemies :3

[empty fern]

But the vandals have it too

[velvet flax]

The real question is why do Taken D2 boss Centurions look like D1 Cabal boss Centurions

[trim grotto]

Which leads to the other vague speculative comment
It may be part of their "perfected" new shape that occures upon becoming Taken

[full trellis]

Maybe it's like their connection to the hive mind so yo speak

[empty fern]

Hmmm

[velvet flax]

Does this suggest all D2 Taken Centurions are all D1 Centurions 👀

[full trellis]

So to

[empty fern]

I wonder

Did oryx start taking the cabal before or after toroabottl

[velvet flax]

Some Taken Ogres have a lot, see Kholks

[velvet flax]

Wdym before or after Torobatl

[empty fern]

Like

[velvet flax]

The fall of Torobatl happened approximately season of the worthy time I believe

[empty fern]

Did oryx start taking the cabal before or after xivu attacked them, this’ll help estimating the population

[empty fern]

What

[trim grotto]

We don't explicitly know but we assume it was around Worthy yeah

[velvet flax]

I'm guestimating Worthy because of Heir Apparent which is where Caiatl entered the lore for the first time since D2 Vanilla

[velvet flax]

It definitely happened after The Taken King anyway

Since during TTK the Cabal sent a distress signal to Torobatl and in response Ghaul launched his attack

[trim grotto]

Ghaul had well and truly died by the time the attack happened

Caiatl recognises it

[velvet flax]

Ah so between D2 Vanilla and Hunt then

And Hunt is too late imo

[trim grotto]

Hunt was when Ascendancy Cabal first arrived in Sol

So yes, too late

[velvet flax]

True

[empty fern]

Oh I thought it happened like before our collapse

Damn

I need to catch up and refead

[velvet flax]

Nah its very recent in terms of current destiny timeline

[trim grotto]

Makes you wonder how efficient their engines are

[velvet flax]

And how far away Torobatl's system is

It has to be closer than Riis since it took the Eliksni longer to get here after their Exodus. Assuming the Cabal didn't go FTL

[slim elk]

TBF:Eliskni had to recover and reorganize as well as track the Traveler whereever it went to

Cabal knew Traveler has been in Sol for a while

[empty fern]

Wonder how long the almighty took to make, but if it’s ghauls whole life then well, ghauls whole life

[slim elk]

Nah

Almighty had been used several times by Ghaul in the past

Part of the Red Legions rep

[empty fern]

Neat

[fresh zephyr]

then some crayon eater punched it hard enough

[ember storm]

what the fuck is a nadir

[fresh zephyr]

it's a foundry

[rigid flower]

Yep, what I said right at the beginning of my message.

[little gorge]

I'm a destiny player

i can't read

[empty fern]

I can talk without thinking tho

That’s how you get bad pvp based changes

[fresh zephyr]

Whose stronger, Saint-14 or Osiris, both seem to have insane feats, especially when you take into account the Infinite forest where Saint-14 used his light to cut a rift through time drawing vex from all pasts and futures to one present and Osiris who explored every single timeline and fought for literal eons in the infinite forest?

[smoky rose]

Does it matter?

They are a couple

[fresh zephyr]

That's fair

we need more fanart

[shadow warren]

It would be interesting to know though

Canonically they’re among the strongest guardians we know of, aren’t they?

[fresh zephyr]

Probably the strongest

both have been on battlefields for eternities

and have some of the most experience out of every Guardian

[rigid flower]

SAME!

[rigid flower]

Saint...Osiris is just an old man now.

[fresh zephyr]

prime vs prime

[rigid flower]

Though as Discus said, they are a couple.

[fresh zephyr]

Its less so a fight

and more so a comparison

like which is stronger

[rigid flower]

Can't wait for the Episode where Saint and Osiris get married.

[fresh zephyr]

not which would win against each other

[fresh zephyr]

Fax

[rigid flower]

This is not sarcasm, Bungie.

[fresh zephyr]

In that same episode Mara Sov and Xur gotta get together

hear me out

[tawdry mauve]

lets entertain the idea of that happening for a sec

lets say the 2 somehow get to know each other

xur released skolas from his prison on the order of the nine 💀

which started the wolf rebellion in the reef

[ornate pike]

One thing that confuses me is this:
How da fuck is Eris so old? She's lightless.

Oh fuck she heard me

[jagged badge]

Perhaps it’s a latent feature of being a Lightbearer. Perhaps it’s Hive magic

[jagged badge]

I proper laughed at this lmao, I hadn’t considered how that would look

[ember storm]

human lifespan is naturally ~300

you wanna talk about being old talk about the speaker

literal fossil

[jagged badge]

Oh yeah, that too. However it’s safe to say Eris definitely seems to have not aged at all in the decades-centuries she’s been Lightless

[ember storm]

she's just built different

[jagged badge]

Point is, we don’t actually know how she doesn’t age. Could be magic, could be Light

[ornate pike]

I thought for a while she was an awoken and that might explain it
Nope, she's just super pale lol

[jagged badge]

I hope it’s Light because then Osiris gets to live with Saint

[ember storm]

being underground for years will do that to you

not like she's getting many rays these days either

still her skincare routine is way better than you'd expect

[ornate pike]

Dental care in the hellmouth is better than modern day's god damn.

[jagged badge]

We do kinda have precedent for Light having a latent effect on Lightless Guardians

[ember storm]

do not mention the man

i do not want to hear his name

[jagged badge]

Osiris is able to perceive the Weave whereas Lightless people like the Neomuni are not

Assuming that is in fact related to that

[ornate pike]

Tru.
The light is weird man.
Sometimes it leaves people useless and sometimes it lets you have a pseudo ghost like Shin.

[jagged badge]

Yeah Shin’s an odd case

[ember storm]

fuel for the traveler/veil having the same origin theory

[jagged badge]

Ooh yeah

[ember storm]

anyway shin himself mentions last word just has innate solar light

along with omar, a bug, firing solar projectiles out of nothing

and eris being able to touch a golden gun she didn't make

[peak coral]

mad ex-lightbearer buggo

so cool

but also so goofy

[empty fern]

T-t-t-to-tooooo-to

TOOOOOOOLAAAAANNND

[ember storm]

not him

i meant shin

[empty fern]

Oh

Bruh

[devout vine]

Hey everyone....haven't been back in a while but what's the discussion today?

[empty fern]

Hive stuff

[safe galleon]

there are a few viable explanations

1. Miscellaneous Futuristic Sci-fi Tech™️
2. hive magic
3. being a lightbearer somehow made her biologically immortal, or at the very least, she lives a lot longer now

[devout vine]

Ohh shiii...I've been talking about the lore for a while with some of the community on other platforms

I fucking called it....

The dark future is coming full circle....who's to say Eris won't take up the mantle indefinitely and have savathun as her pawn too?

[jagged badge]

I mean, Eris in that timeline and Eris in this timeline are almost different people with how different their experiences are

That Eris never got to come to terms with her trauma and overcome it

She didn’t have Elsie teaching her how to handle the Darkness

She didn’t have us helping her

[devout vine]

That's true....
But what have we seen thus far?
We can subvert the flow of time but the arrival of the witness was inevitable all the same

It was a fixed point in time

Eris is losing her grip too

It's all in the altar of sorrows, she laughs more exuberantly and is more confident of the sword logic

[jagged badge]

I wouldn’t say that’s how it works at all

The Witness arrived because the Traveler woke up. Yes, this is probably gonna happen in a fair few timelines. There’s also probably a good few she experienced where the Traveler never woke

[devout vine]

That is true....
But every measure taken has been in line with the dark future atm....

Even Xivu is considering Eris as the heir to oryx

We could be helping her gain more power to overcome even the guardians

The weeks will let us know what that will entail

[jagged badge]

We’ve surpassed the Dark Future. Elsie herself admitted she has no idea how things could possibly go from this point

This is the furthest she’s ever gotten

[devout vine]

Its kind of like the movie edge of tomorrow

She doesn't know because she hasn't come this far yet

But even Elsie knows that by helping eris understand stasis, she prevented her from being the witch to begin with

Or perhaps earlier than we think

[devout vine]

You ever watched GOT?

[jagged badge]

Game of Thrones?

[devout vine]

Yh

[jagged badge]

‘Fraid not

[devout vine]

Ahh OK....
But I'll say this

I really really hope that when the final shape comes around

We all collectively decide to storm the portal

And it becomes a traitor play

Eris convinces us or savathun convinces us we are allies and chaos ensues with the survivors of the battle tryna enter the portal

Seems appropriate since the teaser cutscene for final shape only saw a couple handful of guardians

[jagged badge]

I don’t think Eris will turn bad. I also don’t want her to. Unless it’s written well it feels like such a betrayal of the amazing character she is and the arc she has been on for years

[devout vine]

She has stated that being hive does make her more herself.....

Perhaps it's a play of...

We thought we knew who eris was

But we were to gullible to see the real her

[jagged badge]

So? That doesn’t necessarily mean she’s gonna go bad

[devout vine]

I really hope it's an infinity war situation

[jagged badge]

The Hive aren’t inherently bad. It’s the philosophy they adhere to that is. Eris knows that. And Eris isn’t the type to go on a genocidal campaign for power. Not to mention she also isn’t motivated by a worm’s hunger as a ticking time bomb for her

[devout vine]

Most hive have been feeding the worms out of necessity....
Eris does it willingly...
Seems scary that Eris who has no objections to the sword logic might have more potential

[jagged badge]

Eris doesn’t have a worm

[devout vine]

Xivu and savathun see it too

[jagged badge]

The power is tithed right to Eris

[devout vine]

I know...
But she still hears whispers from the deep

[jagged badge]

She isn’t feeding anything, unless I’ve missed something

[devout vine]

The worms are still in play

She could still drown

[jagged badge]

Sure, but is that really any different to the Witness trying to tempt Guardians through Stasis?

[devout vine]

She has said its been a struggle but she can handle it

Otherwise She would've drowned by now

[devout vine]

I think it's more of the fact that stasis was manipulated by the witness to tempt to begin with

Darkness isn't an evil force

It's a Web of consciousness and the metaphysical

Strand has demonstrated this

But the witness who wields the darkness can easily use it to tempt and corrupt em

[devout vine]

Guardians still turned dark remember....

They could still re emerge during the final battle

The scarlet keep is still intact

All the pieces are still intact with few exceptions

Perhaps it's a multiverse option too

A new possibility

[unique remnant]

Hey guys can someone explain exactly what asha is?

[devout vine]

From what I can tell from lore entries, I think she's an ancient worm

Immaru has said so

[slim elk]

Pre "worm" species
Like the Hive were Krill

[devout vine]

Wait...there were worm species on the krill homeworld too?

I think I missed that in the tablets of ruin when oryx told the story of their backstory as krill

[dim minnow]

as in the Worm Gods who lived in the deepest depths of the Fundament

[devout vine]

I'm such a half slept melon

[dim minnow]

though Ahsa is a non-corrupted one

[devout vine]

OF COURS THERE WERE

How else did aurash, sathona and Xi ro get worms.

I need to sleep man

But I need answers

[dim minnow]

the worms are segmented from them

in a sense the worms Hive ingest are the Worm Gods' children

[jagged badge]

The Worm parasites are a kinda engineered species right, not a natural one?

[dim minnow]

in a sense that they are segmented off from the Worm Gods yes

[tulip knoll]

Proto worm god or un corrupted worm god like dova said

[odd flicker]

So wait, did Eris receive the deaths of Crota, Oryx, and Savvy as tithes?

[dim minnow]

I don't think so

[trim grotto]

I don't believe so. She was saying that we who killed them are now her blade.

[odd flicker]

I didn't either, wasn't sure if that's what she was saying in this week's cutscene though.

Gotcha

Man I have no idea how Eris is supposed to square up with Xivu though. I know we're engines of murder and whatnot, but Xivu's got literal billions of years of war as power behind her.

[dim minnow]

Guardians are bullshit by nature, we'll be fine

besides, even crucible strengthens her

[slim elk]

Theres a funny logic that applies there...
Just let Eris kill us and or Savathun a few dozen times

Be worth a few level ups at least

[odd flicker]

Oh wait, actually, Xivu has said she's seeking vengeance no?

That might be powering up Eris too.

[dim minnow]

yeah

at this point, I'm fine with the idea of Xivu being killed off this season

just because I'm loving the way Bungie is going with ehr character

ever since Hunt, she's been seen as this unstoppable Hive force only for us to now realize that she is just incredibly arrogant and childish this entire time

[jagged badge]

Honestly I think people get way too worked up needing to attribute a boss to a difficulty of an activity when Xivu dying in the season would potentially serve the storyline better

It’d be so funny if she dies and we don’t even fight her ourselves at all

[dim minnow]

reminds me of Quria

[jagged badge]

People would rage but honestly I don’t care

[slim elk]

Difference between out of verse and in verse really

I mean, we all know by end of the Final Shape the universe will still be standing

Witness fails to bring about the Final Shape... probably dead at our hand

[outer dragon]

Xivu is a petulant child

[dim minnow]

really interested in how they do the final campaign mission and raid mix

[slim elk]

I'm thinking oryx again

[dim minnow]

not what I mean

did you see the recent Joe Black burn interview

[outer dragon]

Oryx coming back as a Lightbearer would be dumb

[slim elk]

No, thats exactly what I mean
We beat up the Witness in campaign, force it to retreat.. then finish it off in the raid

Exactly like how they handled oryx

[outer dragon]

They have specificly said the raid is not the end of the Witnesses

So no

[dim minnow]

apparently, ||the first seven missions will be avalible from the start with the 8th one releasing alongside the raid||

[outer dragon]

I wouldn't call that a spoiler

[empty fern]

It was mentioned earlier this week but yea, you gotta wonder how game breaking the raid is if its gonna affect the story

[smoky rose]

It has to, frankly

If I had to guess we cripple the witness in the raid and then the 8th mission has us actually kill them

[lean plover]

What do you guys think is the hardest line in lore?

Imo it's the first line of the fighting lion lore tab

"Wei Ning punched a mountain. It moved."

[dim minnow]

hold on, lemme go get it

That I may have served as a catalyst for even a sliver of your continued growth is an honor.
-Shin Malphur from "The Long Goodbye"

[lean plover]

There's also Oryx's whole speech when he yeets crota into the vex net

[lean plover]

I like that

[dim minnow]

if you want to expand to beyond just single lines, the lore tab for Vex Mythoclast goes hard

[lean plover]

The impossible gun

[grizzled zinc]

I like to think of it more like making time non-linear, like an arrow split down the center

Similar to dragon breaks in the elder scrolls series, if anyone’s familiar with what those are.

[dim minnow]

I wonder if how the Vex see time plays into it

according to Truth to Power, it's like reading a CYOA book like a normal book

[slim elk]

Paracausality does break the Vex hard...

[tulip knoll]

Just a theory for the TFS raid, given the origins of the witness, I feel like I can predictably say the boss fight will involve some “division”, by that I mean maybe the witness might divide itself into multiple different copies of itself or the different personalities it merged together, divided once more maybe due to us weakening it in some way, combining again at different points in the encounter. Just a theory but it’s a long way out anything could happen. Given what Blackburn said about the sheer power of it and how it “wins every 1v1”

What y’all think? If we’re taking full lore influences in consideration when it comes to how we’ll fight the witness.

[dim minnow]

an idea I had was that we either "reduce" or "add to" it in order to beat it

[tulip knoll]

Overloading it’s power sounds plausible tbh

But so does reduction. Actually reduction sounds more sensible I think.

[dim minnow]

the add to thing is also a thematic contrast to the Witness

[tulip knoll]

Yeah there’s that as well

[sudden sinew]

Why isn’t there more crota lore, like we know he got shoved into a portal and became a legend, but like what did he do in that portal

[trim grotto]

Kill rather a lot of Vex

[blazing wasp]

The books of sorrow detail iirc

[little gorge]

it would be interesting if we split it up in the raid and then the final campaign mission has us fighting a boss which is actually a whole crowd

that or big arm abomination™

[empty fern]

A kinda new model abomination

Cause that witness is kinda showing up on another plane of existence

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-the-witness-darkness-winnower-pyramids-gif-26559949

[wheat latch]

is there any lore explanation of why we're getting crota's end again or just for fun

i'd imagine just for fun but i'm not sure

[trim grotto]

There is not, has not, and will not, be any explanation for reprised raids.

Their return is not canon

[wheat latch]

understandable, not even like crucible type simulation?

[trim grotto]

Nope, just straight up not canon.

[wheat latch]

fair enough, thanks

[empty fern]

Legendary memories

[strong knot]

They're the Guardians reminiscing about that one time they did that one thing, at best.

Still wouldn't explain how your raid team can be entirely different every time tho.

[wheat latch]

i meannnn, didnt saint manipulate time with his light

oh, i thought u said "in an entirely different time"

whoops

call it, creative reminiscing

[trim grotto]

It may be that. It is a known practice, but it isn't said to be occuring here.

[empty fern]

Ah

[trim grotto]

It's a form of meditation that Ikora teaches.

[strong knot]

Yeah, I was positing that as a suggestion for one to headcanon as the explanation.

[empty fern]

Why was crota green and translucent and why was atheon made of glass

[ember storm]

atheon was the vex mind constructed to maintain the vault of glass

pretty self explanatory

Crota on the other hand was so starved for tribute he could barely keep his form together and ended up as a skeleton surrounded by soulfire

his form as a nightmare and in dares are his actual physical body

[fiery copper]

The only raid that we canonically did multiple times was Leviathan

[ember storm]

even then that’s only possible

[fiery copper]

And even then it's dubious because the named dogs are the same every run

[ember storm]

nothing in game actually suggests we actually did that

in fact the dog thing suggests gameplay wise it’s just the one time

we’re just told later that unnamed and unspecific fireteams have gone to the leviathan again and again

[fiery copper]

WE might not have done it multiple times, but over the course of the three raids we see less and less calusbots in the treasure room

Also

Joxer had a mythoclast

And so did that other random dude drifter was talking to

[ember storm]

I mean yeah there’s potentially an infinite amount

after we actually did a successful raid and reported back that excursions into the vault were possible to return from nothing was stopping anyone

it’s why D1 had a bunch of missions afterward just inside the vault

[dim minnow]

Crota would have various temples/monuments built for Oryx and he would sometimes leave victims alive so they can curse Oryx's name. He did this in order to try and understand his father

[analog torrent]

Is Nokris a femboy

[dim minnow]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/244236399421685771/1146986331617103912/attachment.gif

[rich wyvern]

yes nokris is a femboy

im not really happy with where they took the sundaresh story

like they took an already fully-developed character and turned her into clovis 2.0

flipped her personality all the way around

[dim minnow]

I kind of like the irony

how Clovis turned himself around for the better while Maya regressed

and when I said Clovis, I'm not referring to the Clovis AI

[rich wyvern]

felt shoehorned to me and didnt really make sense with her char
like she had a whole story about the ethics of AI clones and morality

[ember storm]

i mean most of what we got was from a vex copy anyway

[rich wyvern]

and fast forward to neomuna and real life peoples deaths dont matter at all

[ember storm]

which they're also still going on with

[rich wyvern]

it feels like the only way to explain the complete 180 is with "le darkness mind control" which feels super lame

[final geyser]

i think it's mostkybobsession honestly

maybe a bit of paracausal influence but

[rich wyvern]

is the new darkness lore about it being centered around the mind / consciousness

like

congruent with the existing lore from pre-lightfall

for example stasis

it felt a little out of left field to me but maybe i just missed all the signs

[spark pilot]

Hello

[jagged badge]

Hello

[spark pilot]

Can I ask you a question?

[jagged badge]

Sure, I hope I can answer

[spark pilot]

So I have an exotic chest piece for warlock but my legendary ornament won’t go I’m on it is that supposed to happen?

[jagged badge]

#❓destiny-questions

This is the lore channel lmao

[spark pilot]

Oh sorry

Can you answer there then?

[jagged badge]

Sure

[cosmic rivet]

what is the lore behind our guardian only being smart enough now to use the monte carlo bayonet

[dim minnow]

nothing pretty much

[cosmic rivet]

guardian discovers common sense

[worn kernel]

Their thought process is: GASP IT CAN STAB THINGS?

[fiery copper]

Before we got the catalyst it was blunt and not strong enough to withstand repeated stabbings, all the catalyst actually does is generate an invisible force field around the knife so we can stab with it

(Source: no)

[ember storm]

the catalyst is the wikipedia article for bayonets as the guardian had no idea what it was prior

[dull raft]

rahool just now finished decrypting that information

[outer dragon]

The catalyst is just Ghost opening a web browser

[empty fern]

So I was replaying wq and

Nvm it’s definitely key head fikrul and not key head baron

[trim grotto]

Que

[dawn epoch]

man i miss fikruk

where's he again

he's immortal right or smth

[smoky rose]

Episode about him next year

Second one

[thorny pelican]

Anyone know how to get this lore book I’m missing?

[shadow warren]

Where are there so many fusion rifles starting with “nox?”

[slim elk]

Potentially new Festival of the Lost lore

[trim grotto]

He is, but we don't know where he is. He escaped the Shore.

Crow's looking for him.

[trim grotto]

It's part of Cassoid's naming conventions. Each Foundry has its own naming scheme, though some are more inconsistent (particularly when crossing from D1 to D2) than others.

[dim minnow]

the placement of it is odd though

you know, FotL with Immaru would be pretty great

I'm hoping that we will actually get a definitive answer on the Headless Ones

though, I'm still thinking Glint was right all along that they were experiments done by Nokris

the FotL after that with Eido spouting bullshit and acting as if she is right was frustrating

though in her defense, she was working with heavily unreliable information and she is naive

especially when it comes to human culture

[cosmic rivet]

bro im so excited for festival of the lost

its my favourite event each time it comes out i love how they make it make sense and stuff its rlly interesting

[empty fern]

Bug armor and goofy lore

[cosmic rivet]

THE ARMOR ALWAYS LOOKS COOL

like

its a change from the usual i rlly like it

[empty fern]

Yesss

Very lore

[dim minnow]

not to mention the really good Tower music

[grand jungle]

who tf controls the vex

they hv to like a giant hivemind or sumn shit

[jagged badge]

Not quite

They all work towards the same goal but their methods can differ and even lead them into conflict with each other

[grand jungle]

vex are the strangest and coolest enemy type

[jagged badge]

I.e: the Sol Divisive being ostracised from other Vex iirc

[grand jungle]

arent vex unkillable

like we could kills like 100ks then 100k more coud come up

[tawdry mauve]

considering they come from a different universe basically in which everything is vex

yes

there is a practically infinite amount of them

who knows how much of our universe they already "vexed"

they arent even trying here in sol all things considered

kinda doing everything haphazardly

[grand jungle]

vex are fcking terryfing in ways like we cant beat them

[jagged badge]

What?

[tawdry mauve]

?

[jagged badge]

Where’d you get that from?

[tawdry mauve]

are the vex not from the universe in which they won the flower game ?

i thought that was the general consensus on the vex

[jagged badge]

That’s not really what Unveiling meant. You also should not take Unveiling as complete fact given what we know now about the Witness and the Veil

As for what we had previously interpreted from Unveiling

It was not a different universe. It was an incomprehensible pre-universe state only described to us through the garden metaphor. The Vex were not the Vex specifically as we know them, but a pattern that persistently won the flower game, over and over until the Gardener changed the rules

This pattern developed in the new universe created and became the Radiolaria which became the Vex as we know them

According to Unveiling

[rich veldt]

the vex won previous games if you believe in unveiling that way, but in terms of the vex we know, they started at one point and have spread since the big bang

they are still near infinite either way

[slim elk]

For reference, Unveiling appears to be Witness propaganda
It probably has some truths to it ala Truth to Power.. but is difficult to ascertain

On the flip side of it, the Wager appears to be invalidated due to the same reasoning behind the Vex origins here

[cosmic rivet]

why do we help calus in the old raids like leviathan

like hes just chillin at the start or something if i remember right

[tawdry mauve]

we dont help him during leviathan

we fight him and his cabal

[jagged badge]

I mean, Crown of Sorrow at least was us helping Calus kinda

[tawdry mauve]

well

spire, and eater

do have us helping him as well

[jagged badge]

I’m not totally familiar with the Leviathan lore tbh

[tawdry mauve]

but the base leviathan raid

is like

entertainment for calus lol

[cosmic rivet]

ohh

[open wagon]

why does the hellmouth (and other stuff on the moon) turn red?

i noticed before but never thought to ask

[velvet flax]

Not all of it did, but some material from the old Hive stuff on the Moon was used to construct the Scarlet Keep

Which made the places where material was taken red... for some reason

[pearl basin]

the hive gods and all the big guys are technically a family right ?
is there a family tree or smh that i can refer to ?
i was playing the scarlet keep strike and heard a line on which i never put a thought to

" hasladun knows what the gaurdians have done , she watched as her lineage fell , oryx , crota omnigul '
I know oryx and crota , but who was omnigul , and how many gods / demigods or members are there in the hive family ?

[jagged badge]

Omnigul was Crota’s…partner or whatever term the Hive would use

[pearl basin]

how many are there

i just know savathun , xivu , oryx and then crota

[jagged badge]

This appears to be a good starting point but I believe is incomplete?

[fresh zephyr]

When our ghost talks about what happened in the events of red war, dark below, and forsaken, is that the witness speaking or the ghost itself? (Final mission of shadowkeep)

[empty fern]

I’m stealing this

[jagged badge]

That’s the Witness

Speaking through our Ghost

Trying to convince us of the Traveler’s failures to turn us against it

[ember storm]

the moment you’re brought into the pyramid it’s not ghost talking anymore

[mild wagon]

did Savathun plan to get chosen by the traveler or did she just want to die free?

[ember storm]

she and Immaru were planning it

[empty fern]

Unless there’s a complete version

[ember storm]

reminder that Savathun was setting everything up knowing we’d be seeing it later through the altars of reflection

she put on a grandiose show and said a bunch of bs just to make our faith in the traveler shaken before she tried to take it away

[south temple]

Does humanity have a standing army or a defense force cause ik they got guards but do they have a standing army say like what America or any country has?

[open wagon]

what relevance does dul incaru even have

[jagged badge]

She’s Savathûn’s daughter, and she was told to go attack Mara’s Throne world to try and get important Awoken secrets and whatnot. When we go in to stop Dul, the time loop begins when we kill her

However, we have to kill her to stop her from discovering the important shit

Unfortunately for us, this helpless loop we were in was designed to endlessly feed Savathûn with tribute

That particular fact is irrelevant since Beyond Light, due to the fact that Savathûn realised her worm’s hunger was outgrowing her supply of tribute

Which is why Savathûn turned to the Light to escape her doomed existence

[open wagon]

woah thabks

[sleek hare]

Does anyone know why liar's handshake called liar's handshake
Like the lore about it

[jagged badge]

It’s called Liar’s Handshake because there’s a big ol’ stabby stabber by the hand

[sleek hare]

Damn that's one way to put it

[tawdry mauve]

wait

omnigul was crota's babymama

didnt know that

[still bay]

How is Eris morn still on the moon if she's a hive brudda now?

[jagged badge]

It’s not a permanent transformation

[dim minnow]

Leviathan was Calus inviting us to his ship so he can watch us fight

Eater of Worlds began as a covert ops with us infiltrating the underbelly, but we end up getting caught which leads to Calus sending us into the Levi's stomach so we can clear it out

Spire of Stars was us directly interfering with Val Ca'uor's assault against Calus

Crown of Sorrow is Calus sending us into the depths of the Menagerie so we can get rid of his failed experiment, Gahlran

[empty fern]

Calus gave us 4 raids, then died as a story mission

[dim minnow]

don't forget the Offensive

Menagerie

as well as other Season of Opulence stuff

[empty fern]

Oh yea

[dim minnow]

then there's Duality and everything in Haunted if you count them

[empty fern]

He was THE d2 vanilla father

Even more than vanilla

[sudden sinew]

Where did nechrochasm come from?

[dim minnow]

it is a Weapon of Sorrow

and given its new lore tab, it was made by Enkarr (the guy we kill at the end of the Last Word quest)

[sudden sinew]

Oh, cool

[empty fern]

Oh

[empty fern]

Now what was it before?

[ember storm]

nothing

[thick bluff]

Savathun is the hive god of cunning, xivu is the hive god of war. What is oryx the hive god of?

[empty fern]

Conquering?

I think so atleast

He and his Warpriest took over so many worlds they formed something called a “circuit” (never looked into)

[obtuse ferry]

hive god of taking

[empty fern]

That works too

[dim minnow]

I'd say Hive god of understanding

recall that Savathun's nature is to be cunning while Xivu Arath's nature is war

and Oryx's nature is to satisy his curiosity

[meager belfry]

So you're telling me

Savathun =
Xivu Arath =

And Oryx =🤓

Actually this is a concise way of putting it

[fiery copper]

The 3 hive gods

[meager belfry]

Even better

[fiery copper]

The second one was made by an acquaintance

It's a member of the ira

Don't ask why, because I have no answer why.

[dim minnow]

Gatekeep - Oryx
Gaslight - Savathun
Girlboss - Xivu Arath

[real ingot]

Wisdom

[shadow warren]

What is the oversoul

[dim minnow]

time to bust out one of the greatest excerpts from the Books of Sorrow

“What are you doing, my daughters?” he asked. He was afraid that Ir Halak and Ir Anûk were trying to go into the Deep, where only the Tablets of Ruin allowed Oryx to go.

“We are dying, father,” they said. “As many times as we can manage.”

“That’s adorably precocious.” Oryx shook out his new wings. “But why?”

“We propose a method by which Ascendant souls can be detached and integrated into a tautological and autonomous thanatosphere, which we tentatively term an oversoul. Oversouls can be stored in a throne world as a mechanism of enhanced death resilience. As a side effect, new refinements to our Deathsong may be achieved, moving us closer to a generally effective paracausal death impulse.”

Oryx brandished his sword. “Speak the Royal Tongue, or I’ll pin you up for Eir to eat.”

“If we can separate our deaths from ourselves, and hide them, we will be hard to kill.”

Oryx went to his son, Crota. “Go keep an eye on your sisters,” he said. “'You can learn cunning from them.”```

@shadow warren read this

[ornate pike]

Ok so byf's newest video just kinda hit me with a new thought.
The hive are the fucking orcs from warhammer.
These mfs are using the whole 'darkness is based on thoughts and emotions' to basically make up their own rules and have been clapping us for centuries by basically RPing as gods.

We have been getting f'd up by bugs playing make believe wtf.

[dim minnow]

the Worm Gods kind of gaslit them into thinking that though

hmmm

[rich veldt]

xivu has a few more titles then god of war

[ornate pike]

So basically a really scary god told a buncha smaller gods that if they tell a buncha bugs that 'killing is cool and makes you stronger' the combo of blind faith and literal reality altering power just made that true.

[ornate pike]

I just say knowledge cause he basically was the one to ask questions about how the deep worked and established the sword logic.

And he was basically the only god besides Savathun to actively try to learn as much as possibly to make himself stronger.

Though Savathun's quest for info was just to tell better lies.

[rich veldt]

i mean xivu aint got a need to be a nerd

[ornate pike]

Yeah again. Her logic is basically 'I win if you fight me and lose and I still win if you fight me and win.'

It is the logic of a five year old on a play ground.

[ornate pike]

One of my friends upon me bringing this up asked 'so if we just go 'nuh uh' their logic will fall apart?'
And it occured to me that's literally what fucking bomb logic is.

It is litearlly just saying 'nah things aren't that simple' and winning.

[red robin]

when you mog oryx into submission 🗿

[ornate pike]

F*cking Crota just goes up to his Oryx like 'Daaaad they're killing me with a sword they're not supposed to do that!'

God no wonder Rhulk thought the hive were losers

[rich veldt]

so what your saying is xivu stole eris' toys on the playground and eris is now throwing a tantrum

[ornate pike]

Yes

[restive jolt]

let there be a destiny two school parody

[ornate pike]

At this point I'm convinced you can become the hive god of sandwich making and so long as you believe hard enough that making the best sandwiches makes you stronger it will fucking happen.

I both love and hate this because it basically means 'do whatever you want with darkness' but love how they've managed to hide that for so long lmao.

[rich veldt]

probably an already owned title by xivu

[ornate pike]

The fact that we got owned during the great disaster against a buncha make believe bugs makes me convinced the witness just needs to take us out bro like come on.

[rich veldt]

its not all make believe crota was a fucking danger

we would have been crushed by crota if not for 2 hive knights having a twitter arguement

[red robin]

can someone re explain how the hell eris suddenly became a hive god

[rich veldt]

basically just hive magic

[red robin]

yeah what?

[ornate pike]

I'm not saying they're not an actual threat but the fact that their tatics can be border line reduced to "I can do this because I fucking said so" makes me

Concerned.

[meager belfry]

Is there ever an instance of a guardian dying a final death, and then reviving again only to have a completely blank slate?

[rich veldt]

i mean hive magic is different to our darkness abilities

[rich veldt]

no

untill proven otherwise you got 1 shot then you are out

[ornate pike]

Yeah in the belief and method of wielding it-
It's still darkness and if darkness is based on thought and emotion I'm inclined to believe hive magic, is literally just the shape darkness takes through hive religion

[real ingot]

I love this

[meager belfry]

So technically, they were deemed worthy to become a guardian. And then suddenly no longer worthy when they die a final time

[rich veldt]

well theres no proof of anyone getting a new ghost after a final death

[meager belfry]

It's like "I gave you immortality, and yet you STILL managed to mess that up"

[red robin]

so basically if i’m angry enough or just have a god complex then can i be like “yeah i’m the hive god of toasters now”

[rich veldt]

no

[chilly aurora]

If a ghost can only be killed by certain things iirc, how can they be crushed with a single hand?