📚lore-discussion

[fallen tangle]

I think it sorta varies? You definitely don't have the memories you gained post mind scan

[tawdry mauve]

cayde will obviously not be the same if we brought him back, but to act like he still wouldnt have his goofy ass attitude is odd

[fallen tangle]

But the resets can fuck up the memories like Banshee

[little gorge]

cayde was also a guardian

[ember storm]

goofy ass attitude of shooting children

[fallen tangle]

Exo stranger has her memories

[little gorge]

which is another complete memory wipe on top of that

[fallen tangle]

True

[tawdry mauve]

banshees memory wasnt just fucked up because of being reset 44 times

[fallen tangle]

Wait really? Huh I figured 44 resets absolutely fried him

[tawdry mauve]

well that certainly didnt help

[ember storm]

he specifically chose to lose his memories of being Clovis

[tawdry mauve]

but afaik it was also a lot to do with removing any traces of clovis from his mind permanently

[fallen tangle]

OH YEAH

[tawdry mauve]

like by reset 43 im sure he was already losing it lol

[little gorge]

there's cayde (the human whose mind is in a data bank), cayde-6 (the exo who died and became a guardian), and cayde-6 (the one we knew)

[tawdry mauve]

but 44 was kinda the camel that broke the straws back

[fallen tangle]

And then 44 resets later likely magnified the chopped up memories he had for sure

[fallen tangle]

And then cayde - 6 the final shape

[ember storm]

losing his memory of Clovis was his 44th reset

[fallen tangle]

Ohhhh

[ember storm]

he hasn’t had any since

[tawdry mauve]

he did it all for ana and elsie too

[little gorge]

ghost also straight up says cayde wouldn't be the same if we brought him back from his mindscan

[tawdry mauve]

i mean yeah

no ones arguing that

[fallen tangle]

That would be so weird to meet a copy of you especially one with your memories intact

[tawdry mauve]

but he wont be a complete "alien" to anyone

[fallen tangle]

Would the caydes just experience brain death from the shock of it?

[ember storm]

you wanna talk about fucked up exos talk about echo

[fallen tangle]

At least none guardian cayde?

[fallen tangle]

?

[ember storm]

DER would set in almost immediately at that point yeah

[little gorge]

in cayde's case i say he would be

[tawdry mauve]

kell echo from the prohpecy dungeon

[tawdry mauve]

well the issue is

back to that nurture vs nature thing

nurture isnt about just self serving interests

[fallen tangle]

Who's Kell echo?

[tawdry mauve]

cayde had a massive influence on other people

[ember storm]

the Kell echo was just a thing in prophecy

[tawdry mauve]

the same way uldren had before he was revived

a literal prophecy

of eramis

[fallen tangle]

Oh then what's the fucked up exo your referring to?

[ember storm]

not at all no

echo was an experimental exo that ended up getting stuck on a station repeatedly being reset and woken up on loop

[fallen tangle]

Oh christ

[little gorge]

uldren wasn't the same as crow, guardian cayde wasn't the same as the original cayde-6, cayde-6 probably wasn't the same as the original human cayde

[ember storm]

mortal Ana was partially responsible iirc

[fallen tangle]

Oh isn't the the one that basically ended up just stopped living

[tawdry mauve]

speaking of the echoes, if kell echo is a prophecy of eramis, what is the phalanx echo a prophecy of?

[ember storm]

either way when guardian-Ana finally found them, they immediately lunged for her

she finally put them down

[ember storm]

nothing in particular

[tawdry mauve]

it coul be caital

[ember storm]

which is honestly why I don’t see the Kell echo being Eramis

there is zero evidence that the nine have predictive abilities or powers at all

[fallen tangle]

Could be the Kell is a embodiment of all the Kells slain?

Cause from what I've read we've slain a shit ton of kells

[ember storm]

the premise of prophecy isn’t even a prophecy

we just wanted their opinion on light/darkness

[tawdry mauve]

who says a prophecy has to be based on something

many prophets were just winging it

and got it right enough of the time

[little gorge]

it would be very funny if the nine are just pretending to be important when they're actually weaker than us

[fallen tangle]

Don't bad mouth star horse

XD

[ember storm]

it just irks me that people go “oh prophecy was predicting beyond light” when the finale of arrivals did that in a way that was a lot more impactful and blatant

[ember storm]

star horse isn’t part of the nine

and they are weak as shit

[fallen tangle]

Wait he isn't?

Huh

[tawdry mauve]

star horse isnt even from this dimension lol

[ember storm]

that’s the point of their schtick

[little gorge]

starhorse is just a maybe not canon horse

made of stars

[tawdry mauve]

the eternity is not not canon

[fallen tangle]

So it's a random star horse?

[tawdry mauve]

like the eternity is not canon

but

in a weird way

its canon while its happening

the second you leave it never existed

[ember storm]

it’s a thing beyond our understanding and comprehension that also isn’t particularly important or relevant

[tawdry mauve]

thats how xur put it afaik

[fallen tangle]

Ah

[little gorge]

one moment there's a wacky obstacle course the other there isn't

idk about you but i proclaim that utterly bonkers

[ember storm]

pretty sure xur just mentioned that when the horse eventually leaves he won’t remember it

[little gorge]

dares lore is so wacky

[tawdry mauve]

i still hope xur becomes more of a character somewhere down the line

i just want to know what he is

he looked so cool before his back was broken 😔

[ember storm]

a creation of the nine

[little gorge]

*horse appears*
*fucks up the multiverse*
*horse leaves*
*everything is normal*

[tawdry mauve]

i hope he is more than just that

[little gorge]

just an average Tuesday

[tawdry mauve]

like closer to orion

an effective slave to the nine

but that he was someone or something before

i remember reading this excellent and very well written theory on reddit about him, something about a human from one of the colony ships falling into a lake on a centurion planet terraformed by something that wasnt the traveler or whatever

i cant remember it

[ember storm]

that sounds more like fanfiction

[little gorge]

why do the nine even want him to sell us exotics again?

[tawdry mauve]

nah i didnt explain it right

he used some obscure lore cards or whatever

where something like that happens

and like links them together

it was all spinfoil stuff

but it was cool :)

[ember storm]

it was basically just to introduce themselves to us

[little gorge]

bad introduction, they should know we don't want 25 mobility on our armor

speaking of cards can we just talk about the fact eris is writing a new book of sorrow

[ember storm]

Bible 2 real

[little gorge]

more like bible 3

or 4 actually

oryx left off at book 5

[shadow warren]

Was he not hunched in d1 too?

Or is that just a random picture

[tawdry mauve]

after having his back broken yes

[shadow warren]

Ye wasn’t sure

[tawdry mauve]

this goes hard

[empty fern]

Skolas lore

Why is xur there

[tawdry mauve]

he freed him

[empty fern]

Neat

[ember storm]

mara decided to give skolas over to the nine as a token and they just released him almost immediately afterward

[tawdry mauve]

i mean

they had the right to do it

he was theirs

[final geyser]

oh my gods
2 truths, 2 lies- "the taken king will rise again"
what if the taken king is Eris?

[tawdry mauve]

💀

she would be the taken queen

but no

[final geyser]

hive don't really consider gender the same way humans do

[tawdry mauve]

not really

when you realize oryx basically went from a sister to a king

all for power

[final geyser]

as far as i'm aware

[final geyser]

trans icon tho :D

[tawdry mauve]

also nokris is a femboy

so

[ember storm]

not only does Eris have literally nothing to do with the taken at this point

[final geyser]

the deep is whispering to her, the same way it whispered to oryx

[ember storm]

but Oryx has already been referenced lately in iffy circumstances

[ember storm]

"the deep" is just the witness

[tawdry mauve]

the deep is just a fancy way to say the witness

[ember storm]

it's whispered to fucking everyone at this point

[tawdry mauve]

honestly the only true human taken king could be drifter 💀

on a huge technicality

but his faken count if you ask me

he just doesnt have much control over them

[ember storm]

also, again

the quote specifically says rise again

not "a new king will rise"

no

it says again

the same king

[tawdry mauve]

?

no one was disagreeing

[final geyser]

isn't that the only 2t2l we don't have the answer to

[tawdry mauve]

i was just bringing drifter up for the fun of it

considering its a title not far removed

[ember storm]

im not talking about drifter

[tawdry mauve]

i know

[ember storm]

if you have an answer for 3 of them

[final geyser]

i think it'd be really cool if eris actually remained a hive god

[ember storm]

guess what the fourth is going to be

(answered)

[rich wyvern]

i just realized whats happening now is a callback to the dark future

[ember storm]

wait did you think my "no" was about someone disagreeing

[tawdry mauve]

yes lol

sounded like it

[ember storm]

you've really never heard people say something along those lines?

[rich wyvern]

oh my god this new room in the helm is so fucking cute!

[final geyser]

ok yeah TTK will rise again is a lie

[ember storm]

||elsie gets cross in a lore tab||

||Very cross||

[tawdry mauve]

no but i was refering to your "no" that followed up the "Not "a new king will rise"

[final geyser]

"Mercury, IO, and Titan are in my care" (L)
"The witness returned mars to your solar system" (W)
"You will soon have the power to move worlds" (W, technically)
"TTK will rise again" (likely L)

[tawdry mauve]

sounded way too defensive

[ember storm]

do you think eris could just casually walk into a random hive nest now

[serene swift]

Which lore tab does elsie get mad it

[outer dragon]

There is some dialog in one of the new activities talking about that particular topic.
Eris thinks she should be able to avoid the Dark timeline somehow

[ember storm]

i mean there is a huge difference in circumstances

[outer dragon]

Well yeah, but people are gonna keep bringing that tab up

[ember storm]

namely she's avenged her friends already and we helped her deal with the trauma

drifter is also here

can't believe bungie made a transmat firing joke in 2023

what a world

[outer dragon]

I do think/hope the Black Armory will have some kind of come back in TFS
One of the guns shown during the showcase had vibes of Izanagi/BA patterns

This one gives me BA vibes

So does the sword

[red comet]

What do the cabal call themselves?
Like Ik their language isn’t cabal it’s ulurant but what is the name it’s like the fallens actual name being the Eliksni

[ornate pike]

Lowkey learning that Eris' hive transformation is only temporary in moments really drains a lot of the urgency for me.

[outer dragon]

Cabal

[ornate pike]

I know it's maybe an excuse for her to still be normal on the moon but eh

[red comet]

I’ve just had to explain the D.U lore with my mate in Fortnite terms because he couldn’t understand what I was on about bc he just got the game

You cannot fathom how difficult that was to do

[wind belfry]

Thats elsie bray on that right

i saw some1 say it was cayde but thats not right

[tawdry mauve]

thats both elsie

its a queens card

all of the final shape weapons seem to be a deck of cards

[wind belfry]

ok i wanted to make sure

When tfs releases you will never see me without the elsie bray handcannon

[tawdry mauve]

it also has a clubs on the cylinder

so its a queen of clubs probably

[outer dragon]

It still gives me BA vibes

[jagged trellis]

Got a question what is stronger? Light or darkness

[wheat latch]

They're both just tools, probably just depends on the wielder

[jagged trellis]

Ok thx

[mystic fern]

Can xur fight

[wheat latch]

Afaik he's not very able-bodied lol, the nine kinda fudged him up

[wind belfry]

and orin

when she was still orin the sunbreaker

or spinebreaker lol

[outer dragon]

I wish we had more examples of Pilgrim Guard armor

[ember storm]

his spine is permanently disfigured after he was hit by a solar hammer

[tawdry mauve]

dudes spine is like 30 degrees bent

[red comet]

What is tithes

Eris begs for it get i am unaware of its meaning

[ember storm]

basically taxes of the power hive get from killing

you kill something, you get some power for yourself, your worm, and give the rest to your boss

[red comet]

So a pyramid scheme

Only you get something

[ember storm]

we don't have a worm and eris is the only one we're giving the power to, so she's going to get a ton of it really quickly

[tawdry mauve]

a tithe irl is basically a 1/10th of something

specifically a tax

[wind belfry]

so basically eris is the british

[torpid flint]

Revolution

[jagged badge]

However in this context, we tithe all of our power to her

[tawdry mauve]

yes

[outer dragon]

But aren't we also powering up Xivu due to fighting and killing?

Explain how this helps at all and isn't immediately counter productive

[tawdry mauve]

because we arent fighting xivu or any of her brood 👍

so she doesnt benefit from it

xivus whole "war empowers her" applies only if its something to do with her

this has nothing to do with her as we are fighting the lucent brood exclusively

[mossy kernel]

How many hive gods are there?

[tawdry mauve]

alive?

3

[mossy kernel]

Dead and alive

[tawdry mauve]

well

oh

then its 4

Savathun, Eris, Oryx, Xivu

[mossy kernel]

Like i joined in witch queen but never expected eris to be a little sus

[tawdry mauve]

she isnt sus

in fact she is sacrificing a lot doing this

and is one of the more valuable allies we have right now

[jagged badge]

Crota counted as a Hive God too no?

[tawdry mauve]

well is he?

and of what

[jagged badge]

Is that not the very line Eris says in the Crota’s End trailer?

“I have seen what the Hive call a god.”

[tawdry mauve]

well

he is a "knight-god"

or whatever

but if anything he is closer to a demi-god i guess?

oh wait nvm @jagged badge

"Crota. Son of Oryx. He considered himself a god, and acted as such."

[jagged badge]

What’s that from?

[tawdry mauve]

he was just a narcissist

eris

[jagged badge]

Ah

[tawdry mauve]

"Crota. Son of Oryx. He considered himself a god, and acted as such. His strength proved too much for my fireteam and I. He and his brood took their lives and left me nearly dead. Crota threatened all we had left. The Pyramid serves to do the same. It is no surprise that Crota haunts us once again."

i guess he is as much of a god as eris is

[smoky rose]

It's like hephaestus isn't as god of a god as Zeus

Like he's a god but not the god

Same thing with crota and oryx/sav/xivu/eris

He's a god but not the god

[real ingot]

Demigod

[ember storm]

eh

we don’t know who oryx’s mate was so you can’t be sure

Crota is specifically referenced as a god to the hive though so that’s the only requirement of considering him one

[dim minnow]

I suppose a good name for Crota would be "God of Sorrow"

after all, a lot of stuff related to the Hive on the Moon are named after sorrow

[ember storm]

I just like “Eater of Hope” more

World breaker and Prince of Annihilation are solid too

shame his sword doesn’t have a name

all cool guys with swords are supposed to name them

[real ingot]

Crota-2

[light spindle]

Willbreaker Jr.

[dim minnow]

Sword of Crota

though technically, the name applies to all swords his knights use

as in his swordbearers

those swords drain Light with a touch

pretty much the same effect as Thorn

[light spindle]

I could’ve sworn those swords were primarily restricted to high-end Knights, like those directly beneath Crota whose names I can’t remember.

[dim minnow]

Swarm Princes

[light spindle]

Right, them.

[dim minnow]

I also think there are the "blades of crota"

Sardon was also their leader

[ember storm]

the swarm princes were the ones who made the swords

which is a funny visual

[light spindle]

For just a moment I was back in that cave fighting the Fist of Crota. I’d completely forgotten his name.

[ember storm]

just a room full of knights holding the same sword

[dim minnow]

The Swarm Princes are terrible legends. It was their will that forged the Sword of Crota, a weapon meant to ravage worlds - the Great Render of Light, the Darkest Edge. They have waited in the shadows of the Hellmouth for their master's return, guarding the Sword and sating its ravenous hunger with the Light of Guardians who have dared to challenge them.

[dim minnow]

the trauma...

[ember storm]

glad we permanently destroyed it forever so it could never be used again and then later killed Crota with it

[dim minnow]

Crota has some other names too

Son of Navigation
Sword of Pits

[light spindle]

I’m honestly surprised there’s nothing related to the Vex for him, he was tossed into the Vex gate network and fought his way out. Surely that’d get something.

[dim minnow]

well he fought throughout history

building temples and such

even leaving a few survivors so they can curse his father's name

[sour galleon]

what is the Athenaeum

[dim minnow]

you saw me mention it in gen chat didn't you?

it's pretty much a forgotten area in Savathun's Throne World that Eris set up shop in

[empty fern]

Kek

[sour galleon]

oh I didn't sorry

[dim minnow]

huh

[empty fern]

Bozo

Anyways

Eris is a pseudo hive god now, vengeance and stuff,

[sour galleon]

good for her

[smoky rose]

No no

she's an actual hive god

Her sigil is now at the same level as Savathun's, Xivu's or Oryx's

[empty fern]

Ah

Weird

[rare vale]

Gmorning

[empty fern]

Gm

Welcome to lore

[rare vale]

Hiho

How’s lore chat today

[empty fern]

Dead rn, it’s 2am over here

[novel halo]

Same

[velvet flax]

Speaking of sigils, I think we get to see Xivus for the first time on the cover of the deck of Whisper cards lore book

I think it was that one anyway

[smoky rose]

Yes it is

[velvet flax]

Very cool

[lofty badge]

Do taken we kill die permanently or do they just reform?

[dim minnow]

most likely dead for good

[lofty badge]

Epic

[green cobalt]

what about taken psions when they split are they still part of the same psion or are they different, could one have an army of infinitely duplicating taken psions?

[little gorge]

it's also on the sisters card

[sick yew]

I hadnt continued listening to the Veil containment logs in a long while and decided to listen to the rest of them just now

And I almost physically felt whiplash when I heard Msund12 lmfao

[rich veldt]

Who is MSund12 and what is OXA

[sick yew]

these are questions for another day I suppose

[rich veldt]

give me answers now damn it

[sick yew]

Funky ass Vex simulation shit

[low gyro]

so uh, what is the status of the traveler now

immaru says she's not exactly dead..

[sick yew]

She isnt

As Osiris says in I think the last Veil containment dialogue
Her attention is merely directed inward to where the Witness is

[real ingot]

She’s alive

She’s just in a separate plane

Likely the heart

[sick yew]

She appears dormant but is probably doing her best to keep the Witness' plans at bay

[low gyro]

mm okay

so ig she will probably help us in the final shape against the witness

[sick yew]

Maybe

[slim elk]

By some of the sounds of Immarus dialogue the Travelers losing the fight badly

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NZQ63c3Is1E

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=porxlZQgEb4

By the time we get to the Pale Heart, may not be anything left to save

Immarus a little shit, but don't think he's lying on this.

[jagged trellis]

Man love you can’t post pictures about lore

[empty fern]

Sometimes you can

[jagged badge]

I’m confused

[jagged trellis]

I have close up pictures of five deck of whispers cards that I can’t post

[empty fern]

Oh

No regular moment

[empty fern]

Sorry that mechanic was to prevent unruly people from posting not so safe things

[jagged badge]

I’m not a regular but I have image perms here

[empty fern]

Oh

Ohhh

Is the image limit still 4 on this server

[jagged trellis]

Ok didn’t know

[empty fern]

@sick yew come back I have question, what’s the image limit on this server

[empty fern]

No no just try 4 images instead of 5

[sick yew]

hm?

[empty fern]

Now it works

Yay

[sick yew]

Oh you mean avoiding the spam filter
Yeah just take your time dont send too many images at once

[empty fern]

Ye

[sick yew]

And if the spam filter does get you wait a hot second aswell

[empty fern]

Anyways

[empty fern]

Why we wanna talk about the cards?

[jagged trellis]

The three sisters i never heard of them

[empty fern]

You’ve never heard of
Oryx
Savathun
And xivu arath?

Holdon

[jagged trellis]

I am new to destiny

[empty fern]

Read this

It’s how the hive started

[jagged trellis]

K Tnx

[jagged badge]

Kinda pedantic but the three sisters would specifically refer to Xi Ro, Aurash and Sathona

[empty fern]

[ember storm]

you got owned

[little gorge]

well now they're the four non blood related sisters

[little gorge]

if you like that lore read the books of sorrow

[jagged trellis]

K

[empty fern]

BUT WAIT THERES MORE

[wicked holly]

Bro don’t put this in every channel 💀

[empty fern]

He most definitely did

[drifting glacier]

I've been thinking about something coming up to the final shape which is what is the destiny universe truly about and what message or theme is this story trying to communicate, so here is my two cents. The entire story of destiny and the conflict that is directly at its core, is one about order vs chaos, and more importantly about the ability to make our own fate, our own destiny. Its been there not just in the literal title of the game and the famous "guardians make their own fate" but also in the witnesses motivation, the book of unveiling and more, the light brings chaos but it also brings opportunities, creates life to be beautiful even though it is also free to destroy itself and make mistakes, on the other hand the witness wishes to make everything perfect but also taking away choice, taking away the ability for us to make our destiny, the witness saw meaninglessness because the traveler gave them the power to make their own destiny and yet they refused it, seeking perfect guidance, there lies the main theme of the destiny universe

[dim minnow]

makes sense

[velvet flax]

full stops

[tawdry wigeon]

Why are vex in the moon? I dont remember it being in the shadownkeep lore.

[jagged trellis]

Probably a portal

[empty fern]

Crota kicked their nest in d1

Or before d1

[dim minnow]

at the end of the Shadowkeep campaign, we got this artifact from the Moon Pyramid

after that, the artifact send out a signal that led into the Black Garden, so we do the GoS raid

in the end, we destroy the Sol Inherent and we enter the stump of the first Tree of SIlver Wings where we then encounter a Veiled lady statue

doing this pissed off the Sol Divisive, so they attempted to invade the Moon which we prevented in Season of Undying

[ember storm]

basically they were sniffing around for the pyramid and raiding the black garden sent them into a frenzy

[dim minnow]

which we did by making a device to attach to a Vex gate in the Black Garden so we could pull out a copy of the undying Mind and kill it

we continue this process until the undying Mind is no more

[ember storm]

I miss the days when people were complaining about all the osha violations the construction of the device had

[dim minnow]

I remember how grindy getting the seal for Undying was

then as the year progressed, things got less grindy

[ember storm]

I don’t miss the 400 playlist activity completions

[ornate pike]

I wanna simp for Bungie's writers real quick-
I love how drifter isn't being shoved into this season just because it involves Eris and clearly the writers are having their fun with the two possibly becoming a couple.
If they showed this same restraint for Lightfall maybe we would've gotten a better ending to Calus and Caital's story.

[tawdry mauve]

"better ending to Calus and Caital's story" there was no different ending than calus dying

there was no redemption nothing he could have done to make either us or caital see him in a different light

caital said it herself, dude was literal monster at that point and needed to be killed

if it wasnt us it would have been caital herself

[smoky rose]

Caiatl was very happy with how it ended

And that makes sense for her character

As much as she hated her father and thought he was a monster, seeing him go out in battle like a true cabal was good

[ember storm]

caiatl can think what she thinks

calus' fight just being 2 basic cabal units was boring

especially considering the concept art

[smoky rose]

Oh yeah I’m not disagreeing there

But I thought we were talking narratively not gameplay

[empty fern]

Waltz talking about non lore version in lore channel?

[ember storm]

narratively speaking Calus should've been chugging wine before the boss

[gentle geyser]

I did it today and yeah it was boring but I left the subjugator or whatever its called live into second phase on accident so for about 3 minutes that made it significantly more fun

[tawdry mauve]

tormentor

subjugators arent even out yet

[gentle geyser]

Ah

[ember storm]

overwatch 2 pve reference

[zinc jackal]

How can Eris be hive without a worm? I did not see any worm during the cutscene. Just spells.

[jagged badge]

Savathûn is Hive without a worm

[real ingot]

Witness supports prohibition

[ember storm]

the staff we have has a worm inside it also

[zinc jackal]

I want to see more on how that's possible. Is it in a lore tab / any mission? Whould you know of anyplace I can read on it?

[jagged trellis]

I believe it is in the lore tap other than that I don’t know

[slim elk]

TBF
Removing Savathuns worm did kill her

Just got Immaru pumping her full of light as replacement

[ember storm]

a crystal lodged in her abdomen killed her

she bled out

granted, being a literal god thanks to the worm would've negated a ton of the damage, but it's not like she just croaked from worm removal

[jagged trellis]

Would she lose her memories if her ghost revived her?

Like how we lost our memories when we got revived

[jagged badge]

She already did

It happens on the initial rez

Not every rez

[jagged trellis]

I forgot she died before

[ember storm]

that's sort of how it works

[gentle geyser]

Thats like, half the plot of witch queen

Bro forgor

[slim elk]

Heck. It's even part of this season

Savathun had her memories restored during Witch Queen campaign.
We handle Xivu, she reveals how to get through the portal

[fresh zephyr]

Is there a picture of what xivu arath looks like?

[trim grotto]

The left on each picture

[serene swift]

Maybe I misunderstand hive, but if xivu took on the knight morph why is she so unique

[ember storm]

she’s a god

Savathun took the mother morph but she’s definitely the least motherly of basically any hive

even random brood mothers have better track records

the 3 morphs that the siblings got were unique

[serene swift]

Ah okay

[drifting glacier]

there is a black garden portal on the moon

I hpe we get both tormentors and subjugators in tfs, it would not really make sense for the witness to only use these new guys

[dim minnow]

there were Lucent Brood in the Pale Heart right?

I wonder if we will see Hive Guardians as well

[drifting glacier]

yeah I have a theory that now that Savathun might be going on our side, xivu might die this season but be resurrected as a lightbearer, creating a new leader for the lucent brood

[drifting glacier]

yeah most definetly

[dim minnow]

that also begs the question, why are they there?

is Savathun leading them?

[drifting glacier]

I wonder if its Savathun controlling them or perhaps the entity behind the traveler

[dim minnow]

well, we should also think about how this season will end

will this plan to knock off Xivu Arath relaly work?

[drifting glacier]

I think the traveler itself might be controlling them, perhaps it sees us as having lost pure faith and decided the hive were better suited

[dim minnow]

Traveler ain't like that

[drifting glacier]

I don't think its Savathun controlling them though, I strongly believe she will end up at least somewhat on our side, its either xivu having switched sides or the entity behind the traveler itself

If xivu switches teams she would still be against us

[dim minnow]

and what about Eris

[smoky rose]

Generated by our memories I assume

[dim minnow]

I doubt Bungie will just make her our enemy or kil her off sadly

since she has to be the Moon vendor

[drifting glacier]

no Eris is not turning evil, it will not make sense in any way with how her character is built, she has a unending allegience to humanity and hates the hive more than anything

[dim minnow]

her ambitions can always be twisted

[drifting glacier]

No, Eris is very well written, her character arc has been people learning to trust her and trust her devotion to humanity and overcoming demons, she is the least likely to turn evil out of any character right now, her arc is just not written that way

[smoky rose]

^ the only compelling thing against it is that she's the moon vendor

[dim minnow]

granted Bungie did remove Amanda as a vendor to kill her off, but Eris' role as a vendor and in the Shadowkeep story would make it very difficult for Bungie to remove her

[drifting glacier]

no it just would not make any sense with her character and story

Eris turning evil would just be a complete 180 from what her character is and would be completely out of character, her whole thing is learning to use the darkness so she can protect humanity and destroy the hive

[smoky rose]

It would also be a very powerful demonstration of the corruption hive magic can cause

She won't turn evil of course, but not out of any particular writing choice

They literally made it in lore that her transformation only applies in the card place and the altars of summoning so they wouldn't have to update her outside of that

[dim minnow]

the main thing that can cause Eris to turn is Xivu Arath herself

though Eris could probably be very resistant to it

[drifting glacier]

she has been shown to be incorruptible, one of my favorite written characters in the whole destiny universe, her hatred against the hive is so powerful that she has been shown to overcome every attempt at corruption

[smoky rose]

Making eris firmly established like this makes turning her an even more powerful story beat

Just because she's one of your favorites doesn't mean you should just ignore it

[dim minnow]

also note how last season had Sloane manage to fight off a corrupting influence

[drifting glacier]

it wouldn't be powerful, just lazy, a twist that comes out of nowhere isn't a good twist, a good twist makes you look back and realize all the signs

[dim minnow]

bit weird to do the same stuff twice in a row, though Witch is probably being written different enough from Deep

[drifting glacier]

for example this would work with zavala more ( even though it would still suck) as he has had hints of losing faith in the traveler and being overtaken by grief to an insane point

the only character I could see them doing this is perhaps mara sov

[real ingot]

Zavala is in TFS trailers so you can root that idea away

and Mara has confirmed she's on our side

[drifting glacier]

yeah it will not happen, they won't pull anything like that until after tfs, right now its just building the cast

[dim minnow]

if anything, it's Petra we should consider

she may be very loyal to Mara, but I'm sure her faith in her can be broken

[fiery copper]

The only way I can see Eris turning evil is temporarily

Like it works off of dragon ball logic, you punch her hard enough and she becomes your friend

[slim elk]

Most logically Eris current deal will be setting up the post Final Shape episodes

At present, we are quite literally using the sword logic in service of the Light... pretty big heresy by Hive standards

Yet, by the end of all this. The Trio of Hive Gods will all be dead by our hand and Eris will be the last one standing... so what will the rest of the Hive follow?

[fiery lily]

I wonder if that would break the cycle. The trio that made the original pact are dead. The Hive are all consumed by their worms or die with them.

The complete eradication of one of the enemy races would be a cool/bold move for the ending of a Saga.

[pseudo scarab]

Saint 14 dies?

[trim grotto]

Saint-14? That's a bit of a complex one.

Saint-14 died his final death years ago, killed by the Martyr Mind inside the Infinite Forest.

[fast tapir]

hey uh, are we meant to have access to rites of passage page two?

I did the story on my warlock and didn't get it

got the first page here

and then on my titan I got the second page

[trim grotto]

But in the Season of Dawn, the Cabal found the Sundial, a machine that Osiris created in an attempt to break time and save Saint-14 from his untimely death that Osiris had indirectly caused, when he left to explore the Infinite Forest, and Saint had followed.

Osiris couldn't save him, but we fulfilled the Perfect Paradox. After a complex journey where we met Saint in the distant past, we eventually found him in his battle against the Martyr Mind, and defeated it together.

This alternate timeline was stitched to ours, and Saint emerged from the Infinite Forest many years later in the current day.

[little gorge]

signs like the multiple times this season when they say "i sure hope eris doesn't go full hive"

[dim minnow]

and the fact that she turns evil in other timelines in prior lore

[little gorge]

she also literally refers to the hive as "we"

it's not even a matter of whether she'll become evil or not it's whether she can turn back in time

[dim minnow]

she only turns when in a specific area of the Athenaeum

it is established that she can go out of the transformation

[little gorge]

oh

must have missed that

but wait

she's hive when we tithe to her in altars

[dim minnow]

of course, there is the chance that all this tithing would have negative impacts on her mind while Hive

[dim minnow]

maybe she can turn down there too

I think it's because we do some ritual stuff down there

[little gorge]

i still want to see how xivu fits into all this

I'm very doubtful we actually kill xivu

unless savathun has some trick for that

[dim minnow]

to be fair, Xivu thus far has exclusively been our main enemy in only seasons

[little gorge]

also we're probably not going into her throne world

[dim minnow]

and she has been a seasonal antagnist for a long time

[little gorge]

both oryx and savathun had their own expansions

the least i expect from xivu is like

an episode podt tfs

[dim minnow]

Hunt
Lost
Seraph
Deep

and if you count it, Chosen since Xivu Arath was mostly the reason why Caiatl came to Sol

though I would argue that Savathun had a larger role in Chosen than her

[zinc jackal]

Yooo....the word "Ahimsa" from Ahimsa Park on Neptune means "Non Violence" in Sanskrit... pretty cool imo!!

They made us wreak havoc and chaos in a "non violence" park to get an exotic machine gun lol

[jagged badge]

[rare vale]

Gmorning lore chat

[jagged badge]

Mornin’

[zinc jackal]

Morning

[grand jungle]

in lore what class has the hardest punch

[wind belfry]

id be willing to assume its titans considering their whole thing is brute force and punching things

[empty fern]

A certain thundercrasher in the scarlet keep

[jagged trellis]

Thundercrash

[blazing wasp]

Classes aren't inherently more physically stronger than the other, reminder that classes are schools of thought

[rich veldt]

also remember zav tcrashing the scarlet keep is a dark timeline thing, class are schools of thought, its how people train, there is that 1 who moved a mountain by punching it tho

[peak coral]

wei ning from fl lore tab

yeah

[tulip knoll]

I remember reading a bit about that somewhere of a Titan just punching a whole mountain

What’s the actual piece for it?

[tawdry mauve]

anyone can punch a mountain really

wei ning did but the mountain "moved"

as in it kinda shook similliar to how you can shake an apple tree or something

[tulip knoll]

Ahh so not necessarily inched it out of position but just caused a slight seismic event?

[tawdry mauve]

well any punch from anyone can cause a "slight seismic event"

it just a question of how noticable it is

[tulip knoll]

That makes sense

[tawdry mauve]

i guess if you were at the very base of the mountain you would have probably felt something for a quick second

but if you were near the top i highly doubt

still impressive none the less lol

[tulip knoll]

Speaking of that, what are the chances a guardian could split a mountain in half down its base

?

[tawdry mauve]

highly unlikely lol

[tulip knoll]

Yeah just a theory would be wild tho

[woven sphinx]

Seeing as Eris is now a hive god, is it possible for her to create her own throne world?

[red comet]

What is neflee

It’s mentioned in the data logs at the beil.

Veil*

[tulip knoll]

Neomuna

Neptune

[red comet]

Ah Alr

Thanks

[mystic fern]

Is Saladin named after the Egyptian sultan

[trim grotto]

Given enough Tribute, potentially, yes. Though in the past, it's always been through the Catalyst of a Worm Parasite - Mara and Hiraks aside.

[trim grotto]

Not explicitly but it is possible

[woven sphinx]

It’d be a cool thing to see if they did go that route. How did Hiraks go about getting his (or hers idk) throne world?? I know that mara got hers with the help of riven but clueless about about the other 🤔

[trim grotto]

That's the thing, we don't know. We only knew that he, like Eris, learned Hive magics after being abandoned in the Hellmouth.

[empty fern]

Speaking of tributes, you think she’ll get to xivus level by the end of the season? Since she doesn’t have to pay the tax for it

[trim grotto]

Hard to say. She doesn't pay tax, neither do we, and there's a hell of a lot less to chain than the Hive have.

But nevertheless, even with Guardians supplying her, she's going up against the multi billion year old God of War.

[empty fern]

True

But mael

Do not underestimate your taxes, for they have consumed many

[red comet]

I’m assuming msund12 is maya

[trim grotto]

As far as we can tell, one of the 227.

A simulated copy of Maya Sundaresh (and her science team) from the early Golden Age days of studying the Vex.

The 227 are... Well, the 227 simultaneously simulated versions of that crew, as simulated by and inside the mind of a Goblin.

[mystic fern]

What are our ability cooldowns like in the lore

And I’m assuming that in the lore we can pop our super any time? Like there isn’t any gauge, we can always pop it, but depending on our energy levels or something the efficacy or length of the super varies?

[rich veldt]

abilities are definatley more limited then lore

[sudden sinew]

When did torobatl get dunked on?

[jagged badge]

Some time before Beyond Light

[smoky rose]

Between Red War and Beyond Light

[sudden sinew]

How does a worm grow up? The three hive gods have murdered untold trillions and yet savathuns worm is normal sized, how did the worm gods come to exist?

[smoky rose]

The worms are not exactly baby worm gods

They are a method by which the worm gods receive sustenance

You feed the worm, it feeds the worm gods

[rich veldt]

the worms in the hive are parasites

[smoky rose]

The Worm Gods, we know of a few, made a pact with the witness

The proto worms were already extant when they became the worm gods as they were

Xita, the mother
Akka Xol Eir Ur Yul, known worm gods who definitely made the pact alongside Xita

Ahsa was a proto-worm who did not make the pact
Sel is most likely a worm god, name is uttered alongside other worm gods so I'd assume they also made the pact

I'd assume they are very ancient, possibly as old as time itself

They can use the anthem anatheme like the Ahamkara so I'd assume that both are absolutely ancient

[lethal lake]

So im curious... Last season/end of light fall Imaru(savathunus ghost) went missing right? How did he end up with us this season?

[tawdry mauve]

he didnt go missing

he ran away

also that wasnt last season or during the end of lightfall

it was at the end of the witch queen campaign

[lethal lake]

ah

At what point did he come back to us? I dont remember any cutscenes with him in them

[real ingot]

He was in the throne world the entire time

[tawdry mauve]

this season

at the very start

right before the mission starts he was contacted by eris and ikora

queue the mission

queue the start of the season

[lethal lake]

ohhhhh

Thanks for helping me understand lol. I guess i missed that part

[tawdry mauve]

theres nothing to miss

you just had to fill in the blanks yourself

[digital pivot]

Guys what lore do I need to understand the current season

I played light fall already

But I have no clue what's going on

[tawdry mauve]

have you played witch queen?

[digital pivot]

I played a little bit but didn't finish

But I know what happens to her

[tawdry mauve]

well we are now working with her ghost

immaru

helping her deal with savathuns sister xivu arath

since xivu is the hive god of war

direct warfare with her isnt the smartest idea

so we are basically intercepting the hives own religion "sword logic"

and tithing to eris

who is now the hive god of vengeance

we are doing this so savathun and immaru can help us get through the travellers portal

because savathun most likely knows

[digital pivot]

Oh

Who is xivu arath

[torpid flint]

Savathun’s Sister. Savathun is the God of Cunning, Xivu is the Hive God of War

[remote sky]

how did Eris get them fucked up eyes
and she's melting* black or some shit idk
why is she half hive

y'know???

[tawdry mauve]

we know how she got her eyes

she used an ahamkara wish bone after losing her original ones

and her light

but monkeys paw curled because she said something like "let me find my way out of hellmouth"

and it gave her an acolytes eyes

[tawdry mauve]

savathuns sister

oryx's sister

[remote sky]

cool cool

I wonder if they see different???

[tawdry mauve]

most likely why she keeps them covered

they probably take in too much light

so its a sensory overload for her

[remote sky]

I was thinking it was cause they looked.. not human?? fly eyes and shit. i forget the actual name

[tawdry mauve]

they arent human

well it doesnt matter anymore lol 💀

this is what eris looks like now

[torpid flint]

well, I kinda expected it

[tawdry mauve]

altough its not permament

and she is constantly going back and forward

only changing for when she needs to collect our tithes

[torpid flint]

She managed to make it not permanent?

[tawdry mauve]

it was never not permament

she changes back and forward

we hear it in one of the dialogues

its putting a huge toll on her

[jagged badge]

Nope

The wish took her eyes. Eris got the Acolyte eyes herself

She’s fucking cool and metal like that

[tawdry mauve]

eh it was something like that

couldnt remember on the top of my head

i just know it was a case of the ol monkeys paw

[jagged badge]

Yeah the monkey’s paw was “haha you know the way out but you can’t see shit”

So naturally she was like, “I need new eyes”

[tawdry mauve]

i must acquire new eyes

well at least she grew into them 💀

[patent swallow]

I keep thinking about the Altar of reflection: Insight where Savathun does 2 truths 2 lies, specifically the one where she says that the Taken King will rise again. She also says
1)Mercury, io and titan were in her care (false)
2) the Witness returned Mars (false)
3 the power to move worlds will soon be ours (true? Not sure on this one)
That leaves 4) the Taken King will rise again
could Eris theoretically claim the power of Oryx? No one has claimed the title of Taken King since we killed him(I don't think)
Plus, the Taken King could refer to anyone who has the title, not Oryx Specifically.

Formatted that like a toddler sorry

Also unrelated but does Eris need a worm or na

[cyan monolith]

Spikey

[smoky rose]

Savathun is known to break the 4th wall

TTK rising again is probably about the return of King's Fall

[real ingot]

It took her eyes and she stole an acolyte's

[real ingot]

Mara I believe claimed Oryx's power

[patent swallow]

When has she broken the 4th wall before

[patent swallow]

She did not

[smoky rose]

Truth to Power

She basically calls you out as a player and says that by thinking of her you make her real

And explicitly states that to be her goal

[patent swallow]

When was this?

Is that one of the altars

[smoky rose]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/thank-you#book-truth-to-power

[patent swallow]

That's cool

But if she really was referring to Kings fall thats a big letdown

Something that could impact the universe a ton vs a reprised raid that doesn't affect new lore at all

After GOTD I was giddy because of that reason but if it was just a 4th wall break, while cool, I wish it wasn't

[dim minnow]

could be episode 3 Heresy

[patent swallow]

True

[tawdry mauve]

reprised raids also arent cannon

[patent swallow]

4th wall break

Doesn't matter If the reprised version is Canon or not if it's a 4th wall break

[smoky rose]

^ by thinking about it we make it canon

Savathun is so big brain her source of power (deception) works basically across dimensions

In fact, the entire truth to power lore book

Or the rest of the pages

Is a bunch of bullshit designed to fuck with us

Because the collective deception of the destiny 2 community is a huge source of sustainment for Savathun

[slim elk]

Was anyway

Now she's nothing more but dinner for Drifter

[dim minnow]

made a boil with ther remains because Eris let him in the autopsy room

[smoky rose]

I just think it was a 4th wall break ngl

Eris could take the title but the problem is that Oryx was never really the taken king to begin with

He just sent them to big daddy upstairs aka the witness

Who then sent them back as taken

And I doubt the witness has any knowledge or care about what's going on outside

[slim elk]

And nah.
I think Heresy is related to Eris.. because by the end of this she will be the only "Hive God" left standing

[smoky rose]

So Eris being the Taken King, or queen, as it were, doesn't make sense without the witness

[slim elk]

What will the Hive follow after all 3 of them are dead or turned "heretic"?

[slim elk]

And that is disproven. Witness knows we are after Savathuns knowledge

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/vi-conviction#book-purpose

[dim minnow]

until that lore dropped, I was wondering if the Witness was too preoccupied to have a role in the story until TFS

but it seems that the Witness knows we can still win so it has to make sure its pawns are up to the task of stopping us

[slim elk]

Immaru kinda has solved the mystery of what's going on

[dim minnow]

probably why it wanted to destroy the Veil previously

[slim elk]

Mentions in few of his lines can "feel" the Traveler screaming

[dim minnow]

our Ghost knows as well, he just wanted to spare us the details

[slim elk]

Yeah.. and given Bungies lines on what the Witness is doing from the Showcase

Either the Traveler is trying to resist and failing...

Or it's being tortured for info

Either way, Witness be winning against it

[dim minnow]

I'm thinking that the Witness is forcing its will on the Pale Heart

shaping it into its own view

[slim elk]

Taking a guess and by the time we get there.. won't be a Traveler to save anymore

[outer dragon]

Im excited

What do we think will happen with the Witness? Like thry said it might not be enough

[sudden sinew]

If xivu is in Sol, where are their war moons, and fleets?

[smoky rose]

Xivu is not in sol

She's ransacking the cabal

[sudden sinew]

Still?

[smoky rose]

Yes, there are a few units in sol and agents like kelgorath

[sudden sinew]

Oh

[smoky rose]

There's several 10s of thousands of Hive in the ascendant plane directly above earth

Which was the plot point of Season of the Seraph

[dim minnow]

I swear if Kelly is that Zulmak reskin

[ember storm]

I mean it’s kind of weird for her to be on the Dreadnaught for no reason last season

[sudden sinew]

So when we fight xivu we’re going to be fighting an army of hive? Including a bunch of moons? Idk how we’ll survive that. Maybe we don’t, and we retreat into the traveler’s portal thing

[dim minnow]

maybe someone does something an sacrifices themself to destroy a lot of her fleet

[smoky rose]

Xivu says in the trailer that she bestows the best death she can

To me that indicates a 1v1 with Xivu herself

I'd assume Eris v Xivu

Whether or not that takes Xivu out of the picture completely or not we'll see ig

[dim minnow]

that would mean seeing Xivu Arath in game

[dim minnow]

I once had an idea that Savathun could kill Xivu Arath in her Throne World like how Oryx killed them both in his

[smoky rose]

Well not sav

But maybe eris

Or all 3

[dim minnow]

as a result, Xivu Arath would be put through another true death and would only be brought back via a great act of war

[smoky rose]

Eris kills sav, gains her sword logic, then uses that to kill xivu

[dim minnow]

this was before WQ

which is why I said Savathun

[smoky rose]

I see

[dim minnow]

but having Xivu Arath dead in a similar way to how she was dead in the Books of Sorrow would make sense

[smoky rose]

Which would then give Heresy a good story because reviving xivu through an act of war

[dim minnow]

could leave her out of the story for a while until the DLC where we have to knock her off

[smoky rose]

Which would technically be heresy to some of the hive

[dim minnow]

where's the Heresy in that though

wasn't heresy in the Books of Sorrow

you know, Heresy could be about Zulmak

[smoky rose]

Much in the way that a fine is just a pricetag for the wealthy I imagine

[dim minnow]

since he is supposed to continuously come back

I'm still hoping that Kinox survived

her realization on heresy in the sword logic could make for an interesting plot line

in fact, it would fit perfectly with Heresy

[slim elk]

Mate... Xivu is literally in Sol

[smoky rose]

Not physically

All examples of her "presence" are just witness style mirror apparitions

[slim elk]

literally says on the Dreadnought in this
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/vi-conviction#book-purpose

[smoky rose]

Personally I'm more inclined to believe Xivu has her own

[slim elk]

Xivu Arath's claw wraps around a hiltless, slender vantablack blade impaled into the spine of a prostrated Knight, whose own sword clatters to the ground, inches from its grip, defeated.

She twists her blade, and the Knight's roars echo within the Dreadnaught. Xivu's will soars through the Ascendant Plane and crosses the barrier between this world and the next to find communion with the Witness.

[smoky rose]

Given that there would be A: a fuckton more hive and B: literal warmoons and C: we'd definitely be going to kill her

If she was on that dreadnought

[dim minnow]

"this world" too

[smoky rose]

There are literally hidden monitoring saturn at all times

You'd think the hive god of war showing up would be a big deal

So imo that's her own dreadnought

It'd make sense she had one

[slim elk]

Bungies pretty bad at showing enemies full scale lol

And Dreadnought has only ever been referred to as singular

[dim minnow]

says "the" Dreadnaught

therefore it is the one parked on Saturn

[slim elk]

Even saw Savathuns personal ship...

Not referred to as Dreadnought. Just "The Lure"

Put it this way
Canonically we should have multiple Pyramids in playable zones (the Defiance prisons visible) in patrol.. but they aren't present

Likely Xivu can't bring her full forces down on us because of her rituals failing.. but can bring herself over

Thus why she's hiding on the Dreadnought and trying psychological warfare.

[dim minnow]

she's probably still malding over Rasputin's sacrifice

she had us in a lose/lose situation only for Rasputin to figure a way out of it

[fast tapir]

hey do you guys have rites of passage page two?

[dim minnow]

what's that again?

[fast tapir]

new lore book this season

[dim minnow]

which one?

the one from the cards or the seasonal story?

[fast tapir]

story

[dim minnow]

huh

well we shouldn't be getting the second one until next week

[fast tapir]

I uh

I have it

for some damn reason

[dim minnow]

ah well

save the talk for it next week then

[fast tapir]

I did the story on my warlock and I got the first page

then on my titan and that's when I got the 2nd page

[dim minnow]

yeah, I heard about that

if you have a third, you can probably get the next one

[fast tapir]

crazy

[slim elk]

Does seem the seasonal trajectory is offing Xivu then prepping to get through the portal

[tawdry wigeon]

I just saw someone talk about how Marco blew up his sparrow to kill himself and everything remaining of rhulks body. Is that true?

[tawdry mauve]

yes

he isnt a guardian as well so rip to marco

"With the last of his willpower, Marco turned his Sidearm towards the cracked reactor shielding of his broken Sparrow and fired, detonating it in a small nuclear blast which killed Marco and destroyed what remained of the First Disciple for good."

why would they have a non guardian of the hidden recover the body of a demi-god? your guess is as good as mine

chances are however that "small nuclear blast" would have probably destroyed his ghost

[sudden sinew]

Why can’t our sparrow turn into a nuke :(

[jagged trellis]

Got a question is it normal to have 5 pages for the new lore book

[smoky rose]

Sororicide yes

[jagged trellis]

Ok

[smoky rose]

Its tied to major arcana cards

[jagged trellis]

K

[dim minnow]

Sororicide, yes

Rites of Passage, no

[smoky rose]

If you do it on two characters you get two pages for ROP for whatever reason

[jagged trellis]

K

[dense warren]

is there a limit to how many times an exo can get reset?

i know banshee has some problems but idk if that has to do with him getting reset 44 times

[dim minnow]

Banshee's constant rebooting put a lot of stress on the DSC systems during the Exo-Vex war

he then did one more after so he wouldn't remember his past as Clovis Bray

though in general, it is established that having too many resets can cause issues

there is an exo who reset 2,625 times though

[dense warren]

jesus

is there a rough number before those issues start?

[dim minnow]

yeah, he stood a pretty good chance when fighting Ana Bray

she had to be overcharged with Light to beat him, and she hit him with one of the most overkill attacks

two Golden Gun shots so powerful they traveled for light years

[dim minnow]

around Banshee's amount

[dense warren]

sweet, ty

[smoky rose]

according to some old lore bits should be in the 20s

[dense warren]

ah

[dim minnow]

I was recalling that too

but it has been a while

[dense warren]

got a friend who’s thinking of making their exo oc rebooted like 23

so it’ll just be like slight memory problems? or are the issues different

[dim minnow]

mainly memory fuckery as far as I'm aware

[dense warren]

also also i heard that exos were created with some bits of vex stuff in them

can you explain that

[dim minnow]

ok, so Clovis Bray discovered this effect called "Clarity" when discovering the K1 artifact

now Clarity, is a Darkness-borne effect that reduces something to a simpler form (similar to taking)

back to this in a moment

so Clovis had this issue when making exos, he had to make them not kill themselves like his son Clovis II did while 11 year old Ana watched with delight because the human mind does not mix well with a fully robotic body

the solution he came up with was that he put Vex milk under the effects of Clarity

as a result, the radiolaria was reduced into a reductive pattern which was their pre-evolved state as seen in Unveiling

this is what Clovis called "Alkahest" which is used when making all exos after that point

crazy stuff, huh @dense warren

[dense warren]

yep

so far i’m getting it

and i do know about the killing stuff part, that’s DER right

[dim minnow]

yes

[dense warren]

reason why exos are put with more human stuff and emotions so they don’t rip themselves apart

[dim minnow]

a series of cognitive conditions ending in death

yeah

Clovis also found reboots useful in preventing it, though he mainly used it so they would stop asking him questions

[tawdry mauve]

are anas golden gun shots from twilight gap still burning to this day

[limber kraken]

what would be the kill/death ratio for guardians against the vex, cabal, hive, etc. lore-wise

[tawdry mauve]

litterally impossible to answer...

[smoky rose]

Impossible but I'd say total casualties for guardians are under 50k total

But we don't know how many there are

I'd expect alien casualties to be well into the millions

[torpid flint]

Billions more likely

[vapid tundra]

Echoes looks like sol primevil.. We havent seen them since osiris dlc
and they appeared again this season during the missions

Looks like a primevil vex kneeling in a forest of sorts with some red light eminating off it

that is my theory on lore here

Vex have something going

and it takes place as a power creep after the witnesses reign of darkness

Following this, why keep nessus in the game...

[worldly river]

Huh?

What's wrong with Nessus?

[empty fern]

It’s VEXY

also the echos reminds me of precursor vex

[worldly river]

I think it's a new Vex model entirely

[vapid tundra]

primevil vex*

[worldly river]

It's about time, we haven't had a new Vex subrace since... Fuck, Vanilla D2?

[vapid tundra]

The leaves in the image look like nessus

[worldly river]

They're called Precursor and Descendant Vex by the game btw

[vapid tundra]

the vex have factions

[worldly river]

Yes and the collective is called the Sol Primeval but their members are also called Precursor Vex including in their in game names

[vapid tundra]

Sol Collective - Normal Vex
Sol Divisive - Black Heart worshippers and Black Garden Defenders
Hezen Corrective - Elimination of House of Winter on Venus
Hezen Protective - Completion of the Vault of Glass and Endless Steps
Virgo Prohibition - Combatting the Cabal in Meridian Bay and defending Gateway of Black Garden
Sol Imminent - Far Future Vex also the most far future vex we know of and was encountered in vault of glass
Sol Primevil - Furthest vex in the past we know of, taerraformed Mercury into the machine world we know now and encountered within VoG first time
Sol Progeny, Weavers, and the Proxies aren't factions more of enemy groups within the factions

Divisive vex are the leafy vex

imminent vex are the disc head shaped vex

[empty fern]

Gonna steal this

[vapid tundra]

Forgot the Aphix Invasive. They defend the high level vex minds of the hezen protective

go ahead

Proxies are like hydras

xweavers are seen like once or twice

d1 i think

[empty fern]

Like the uhhhh

[vapid tundra]

Sol progeny are the bosses that are vessels for the black heart

[empty fern]

That one strike? On Venus

Not the harpy but the hydra one

The not undying strike one

[worldly river]

.

[empty fern]

Oh

[vapid tundra]

no

the collective are base vex

[worldly river]

Side note as far as coloration goes even the Sol Collective which were introduced in D2 vanilla are like the same exact coloration as the Hezen Corrective anyway

[floral pilot]

Question:
What’s the scariest piece of lore in the destiny universe

[vapid tundra]

the factions have entirely different purposes

[worldly river]

Collective is not a specific term

[empty fern]

Vexy

[vapid tundra]

collective are darker tone

corrective are brighter tone

[worldly river]

Collective is a general term used to describe groups of Vex

[vapid tundra]

Protective are vault of glass tone

[vapid tundra]

No shit

The collective are the base infantry

[empty fern]

Isn’t the left one hezen and the right one sol divi?

[vapid tundra]

They're all collectives

But they have names

And they are groups

factions

for different purposes

Sol Collective is the collective found across the sol system and are tasked with carrying out basic vex operations

[worldly river]

Then why were you correcting me here

[vapid tundra]

Bruh

no

I fucking said they were base vex bro 4 times

[worldly river]

I wasn't even referring to them

[vapid tundra]

they are the base function vex without real purpose

[worldly river]

I was using collective as a generic term there

[vapid tundra]

not the way it seemed

[worldly river]

Not to refer to the Sol Collective specifically

[vapid tundra]

Collective is indeed a group

[worldly river]

Cool, we're on the same page, let's move on then

[vapid tundra]

Each of the collectives have different purposes and are termed as "Protective" "Corrective" "Divisive"

"Invasive" etc etc

Primevil vex are the problem here with the story

[empty fern]

Are these referenced in the raid shaders? Like flawless vogs and gos

[vapid tundra]

In the echoes image

It appears to be a form of primevil

"A collective from the ancient past"

[empty fern]

Pre transformation Mercury?

[vapid tundra]

yES

They are also

the ones who transformed mercury

during the collapse

after the collapse or so

[empty fern]

Nice, that means that amazing scenery is coming back

[vapid tundra]

Primevil vex at the moment are considered to be the main vex

they are from the furthest past

[empty fern]

The pointy one?

[vapid tundra]

And sol imminent are the furthest future vex where saint 14 was when he came outta the portal to present time

when we went to get his ass

he punched the vex out of the portal and killed it with his shield if im correct

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-destiny2-saint-xiv-gaming-punch-gif-17145845

Ye

[vapid tundra]

the past and future saint went and we went

[vapid tundra]

YES that is a sol imminent vex

The most advanced type of vex apparently as they are of the future

The vex are in all periods of time..

[empty fern]

Is that the only circle head goblin model? I felt like there was another, was it the grassy ones?

[vapid tundra]

We cannot defeat them unless we go to their main source of all

[empty fern]

How do you defeat a pattern

[vapid tundra]

i cannot recall

a pattern? more like a raging eternal river

[empty fern]

That too

[vapid tundra]

you cant go to the past and wipe them out