📚lore-discussion

[smoky rose]

A lot of it seems to be brain related stuff

Diviner, head rush

I’d guess digging up memories

[ember storm]

with Savathun back in action we'll probably see the scorn go into a frenzy

[smoky rose]

You can’t justify making it all about rezzing Sav

You have a ghost

[ember storm]

that's all i can think of in terms of who we're shooting tho

[smoky rose]

You have Savathun’s corpse

Boom

Savathun

[ember storm]

i mean you never know, Immaru might force us to do some things before he agrees

i honestly don't think it'll be smooth whatsoever

[dim minnow]

Diviner and head rush?

[dim minnow]

not for long

watch, someone will probably swoop in and steal Savathun's body (or Immaru) and we have to rescue them

[smoky rose]

Seasonal perk

And origin trait

Respectively

Via the artifact blog post from Friday

[slim elk]

Best case if Bungie goes that route?

Xivu crashes the party

But yeah, if the season is "do all this random nonsense to revive Savathun"... probably be another lackluster story

[outer dragon]

Xivu stealing the corpse would be boring

And predictable

[young storm]

That's my guess

[slim elk]

Yeah
If they do it.. it's a telltale sign Bungie is just stalling

Other hand
Hearing Savathun on comms snarking at everyone would be an experience

Much better plot bearing. Everyone mistrusting Savathun for good reason.. but forced to work with her to get the portal open

[young storm]

Yup

[dim minnow]

realistically, having both seasons be entirely about getting through the portal is going to drag on a lot

so I'm wondering what obstacles or detours we will see in the story until Final Shape

[wind belfry]

eris drifter subplot when

[velvet flax]

Yeah this is what I'm curious about. I assume we'll have access to the portal after this season.. so what is season 23 going to be about

[jagged storm]

has destiny been confirmed to be apart of the Halo universe or..? because I know there was talk about it leading up to 30th anniversary or some shit

[trim grotto]

It is not, but there are some minor crossovers. I'll explain.

The main reference that people will... reference... is from D1. An old soldier in a cryo pod tired from war, and didn't want to be resurrected by Ghost. Our Ghost, that is. People have taken that to be an easter egg to the Master Chief. Possible, but it also fits neatly within regular lore when looking at examples such as Cyrell the Ghost Hunter and Ghost Sight and such.

The other reference is within the Dares of Eternity, which has the Forerunner - a Halo Magnum - inside a Cryo Pod. A far more obvious reference to the Master Chief.
However, apart from the existence of the Forerunner weapon, Dares is functionally irrelevant. Basically non-canon. Nobody knows it happened except for us personally, the Devs consider it non-canon, and Xûr made it clear nobody would ever know it happened - not even himself.
The only exception is the Forerunner in our hands and the fact that Banshee examined it.
Plus the other Dares weapons like the BxR Battler, referencing another Halo gun.

But Dares is part of the 30th Anniversary for Bungie, and the entire thing is just one giant reference session. To Halo, to PiD, Marathon, so on.

It does create the idea of a "paraverse", essentially a multiverse of Bungie's titles, but again, it's pretty much entirely self-contained.

So, Dares and the Paraverse, and Exodus Pod aside? No. No connection to Halo.

[jagged storm]

@trim grotto from what I know about dares is that it exist outside of the universe and that Xur there isnt our mid tier weapon wielding xur we get weekly. but yeah so basically beside borderline-copyright infringing weapons halo has no connection to destiny

I'm just waiting for that 55 inch minigun xurs been promising me for the last year and a bit

[slim elk]

Ironically
Marathon has more solid connections to Destiny with the Mida guns

[trim grotto]

It's the same Xûr. He was kidnapped by the Star Horse and forced to serve it. But nevertheless, yes, basically non-canon.

[jagged storm]

I refuse to believe its the same xur, we can trust our xur to deliver us the useless items he promises, but this one wont even show us his 55 inch minigun

[trim grotto]

Blame the Star Horse.

[jagged storm]

never giving him a sugar cube again

[jagged badge]

The effervescent horse judges you

I have no clue what that means tbh, it just sounds vaguely like one of the many titles Xûr gives Starhorse

[jagged storm]

mmmm not the bubbly water horse

[stuck spoke]

who was nezarec??

[jagged badge]

Nezarec was a Disciple of the Witness who lead the attack on Sol during the Collapse

Savathûn killed Nezarec during this, cursed his remains and stole the Veil from his Pyramid, which crashed on the moon

[ember storm]

rotary phone man

[wind belfry]

phon guyy fnaf

[grand sigil]

i thought that said evansence

[grand sigil]

mans got legs tho

[stuck spoke]

what is the veil???

[trim grotto]

A manifestation of consciousness. A counterpart to the Traveler, the mental to its physical. Darkness incarnate.

[empty fern]

The not traveler ball (but with tendrils)

[low gyro]

Is this referring to the thing we saw in Avalon?

[empty fern]

Uhhhh

What’s aavelon again?

I mean the second phase shield in calus fight

[sick yew]

Avalon was the Vex Network exotic mission

Where we see Asher again

[empty fern]

Ohh

No not that

That’s vex vexy vex stuff

[sick yew]

I mean we do also see and hear about the Veil there

[jagged badge]

We see that Asher has simulated the Veil in the Vex Network

It shows us an image of the Veil

[low gyro]

I meant this one

So the black ball is supposed to be the veil?

[sick yew]

Yes

thats how the Veil looks

On Neomuna its rotated and the right side points upwards

[trim grotto]

The whole thing is

[low gyro]

Oh so the whole thing is the veil

[trim grotto]

You see the black ball from the top during the campaign and the bottom during the Calus fight

[sick yew]

How does it taste like tho

[low gyro]

Don't know maybe cookies and cream

[smoky rose]

In the words of DRG

Mushroom!

[sick yew]

I think the upper side tastes like jelly

[real ingot]

smores

[marsh valve]

So.. does the veil wrap itself around the traveler ?

[real ingot]

Not that kinda veil

[marsh valve]

I think it tastes like weirdly wood and metal

[trim grotto]

Going by the inkblot cutscene, they... fuse? It's not perfectly clear.

[jagged storm]

imma be real wit you, I've had naration and subtitles turned off before 30th anniversary I have not a single clue whats happening lore wise

[trim grotto]

You're not missing much important when it comes to Dares to be fair

Except humor

[jagged storm]

as I tell my friends "I get told where to go and I shoot anything that appears out-lined red"

that is the true d2 experience

[trim grotto]

I don't suppose you're a Titan are you

[jagged storm]

nah, I aint that braindead, I dont even have a titan, but I got 2 warlocks

[jagged badge]

[trim grotto]

[jagged badge]

You do realise you don’t benefit from having two of a class right?

No extra drop chances, no bypassing loot lockouts

[jagged storm]

ahhh no, I benefit from replaying shadowkeep to permanently have a CP for In The Deep to speed farm craftable weapon levels

[trim grotto]

fair enough

[jagged storm]

to be fair tho I ONLY made a titan when there was an AFK farm that used him also on the moon

[fiery copper]

The forbidden turnip

[empty fern]

Ohhh

[sleek glade]

can someone give me a quick rundown of what happened since red war, last thing i remembered was i killed a big guy who beat my ass when i first logged on the game

[real ingot]

oh boy

We'll go with what happened in expansions

[trim grotto]

That was... that's a bit much for a quick rundown.

https://www.previouslyondestiny.com
You may find this to be useful for recapping up to WQ, at least.

[real ingot]

Curse of Osiris - Osiris returns and we help him defeat a Vex mind on Mercury
Warmind - Rasputin awoke and we defeated Oryx's disowned son and a worm god

Use the website above as well

[wheat latch]

Watching the preshow, which is going through d2 past, it's on the witch queen

i had a thought, did the traveler give savatun the light so that she could continue to hide the veil?

[trim grotto]

Well, that isn't what she tried to do. She tried to lock the Traveler away. Similar end goal, I suppose.
I, for one, still believe the whole "unreasonable grace" concept, though.

[wheat latch]

wym by that

[trim grotto]

Hang on I can't be bothered typing this one sec

[wheat latch]

haha

[trim grotto]

I have no idea if this will embed correctly

Hopefully that makes sense it's 2AM

[wheat latch]

that's a cool concept, it makes sense

[trim grotto]

The other part of it is that only now have they removed their Worms

[wheat latch]

do you think it was savathun's final words that convinced the traveler?

[trim grotto]

Honestly? I've got no idea. But Immaru was already prepared.

I believe that the Traveler allowed Ghosts to revive Hive. This means they retain their free will, but explains why non-Hive haven't been rezzed.

[dawn escarp]

So the Vex manipulate time and space to create a universe where they survive. What if they fight the Guardian because it makes us stronger, and sets the timeline for the Witnesses defeat?

[ember storm]

they don't actively instigate conflict with guardians to begin with

they just set out to do things and we get in their way

[dawn escarp]

That is true, and I have seen the lore that they cannot predict the guardian. Though it has me wonder; the Witness supposedly wants the extinction of everything, the Vex want to survive forever, thus the Witness is a threat to the Vex, the Vex may see a future where they survive because the Guardian defeats the Witness. Making interactions with the Vex similar to a live-fire training exercise.

[neat rain]

does anyone know why cayde is alive

[dawn escarp]

No, though if the Neomuni are correct and the portal is an Einstein-Rosen bridge, that would essentially compress time. Potentially making the past, present, and future, exist simultaneously.

[neat rain]

i hate time travel

ty btw

[dawn escarp]

np

Granted it would not explain why he's there. But could explain why he's alive.

[paper gorge]

is the travellar a machine ?

[ember storm]

depends on what you mean

it's not made of meat of that's what you're asking

[paper gorge]

ok

[vale cradle]

Could somebody please summarize the lore of Season Of The Deep?
I almost didn't play at all :(

[fiery copper]

Nothing like some fishin with tha boysss

In all seriousness give me a second

[sonic geode]

so ive missed a lot of lore recently, what exactly does xivu arath want? and why does savathun also want her gone? what makes her so bad that makes us go to such lengths to stop her?

[fiery copper]

1. Titan is back, Sloane is back, her limbs are slightly taken-ey.
2. Sloane met the giant sea monster on titan, a leviathan named Ahsa. We later find out that Ahsa is the same species as the Worm Gods, just uncorrupted by the Deep/Darkness/whatever you want to call it.
3. Sloane and Ahsa have a psychic connection through Egregore, a hive mind fungus. Ahsa knows a ton of deep lore shit but can't speak english so she has to use Sloane as a conduit.
4. Xivu arath is also fucking things up, trying to corrupt everyone and turn them into khornate chaos space marines.
5. The dungeon centers around us discovering and shutting down a plan to try and resurrect oryx, the Taken King, who had fallen into the oceans of titan. The lucent brood planned to use a combo of nokris' necromancy and a hive ghost to bring him back, but we calmly convinced them to stop with the help of our trusted ally, high explosive ordinance.
6. The end of the seasonal story, we learned from Ahsa that the witness is a bunch of other dudes melted together, who is chasing the traveler across space because uhhhh I honestly forget why, but you can look up the cutscene on youtube.
7. Ahsa also closes with the line "the Witch Queen must rise again" which brings us to today.

[blazing wasp]

Xivu serves the sword logic and the witness into achieving the final shape (which I cannot elaborate much upon due to a spoiler rule)
Savathun has turned to the light and has abandoned the sword logic and xivu opposes this

[fiery copper]

Xivu arath is the hive god of war, she likes it when people murder each other a lot.

I haven't watched the showcase yet so idk if there's expansion on it, but from what I DO know the final shape is a mysterious thing that nobody really knows what exactly it is, but everyone has their own interpretation of.

The hive believe the final shape is the last man standing in a universe conquered by war.

[blazing wasp]

Important to note that savathun turning to the light doesn't make her good

[fiery copper]

Calus believed that the final shape was also the last man standing, but instead of through war it was through survival and converting people to the philosophy of the darkness.

[blazing wasp]

The light isn't a force of good, nor is darkness a force of evil

[fiery copper]

Yeah

[sonic geode]

so in hive terms, savathun is woke and xivu dont like that

[blazing wasp]

They are simply forces of ideologies

[sonic geode]

got it

[blazing wasp]

I- That's-

yes

sure

[fiery copper]

You can use a .50 caliber bullet to shoot someone, or use it in a nail gun to put that shit in concrete. Yes, that is a thing.

The light and dark are not objectively or inherently Good or Evil

[sonic geode]

it makes sense, trust me

[fiery copper]

The hive (IN GENERAL) have a philosophy of "get it right the first time, if you die then you suck and deserve to stay dead"

Which is why Nokris got disowned by oryx, and why xivu is so unbelievably pissed at savvy

[blazing wasp]

Ultra darwinism

[fiery copper]

I mean

...I guess?

Survival of the fittest

[sonic geode]

i wish there was room in the story to explore this stuff without having to turn to lore books and the like

[fiery copper]

And if you don't survive, you are obviously unfit, despite how good you may have been at killing.

[blazing wasp]

A literal survival of the fittest, not survival of the fittest in darwinism terms

[fiery copper]

I think nokris' exile was explained in warmind and Arrivals, but I could be wrong.

[fiery copper]

Might Makes Right, but literally. If you are the mightiest, you are inherently right.

[blazing wasp]

Nokris did necromancy

Which is very nono

[sonic geode]

i think i remember hearing the name. i suck at names so i always forget whats what with lore

[blazing wasp]

Like shitting in the public urinal cringe

[fiery copper]

Nokris was the second to last boss of warmind, and also in arrivals

But yeah destiny has always had that problem

Utterly incomprehensible unless you do homework

[sonic geode]

like sword logic is a pretty huge part of hive lore, yet the only reason i know about it is cause i googled "hive lore"

[fiery copper]

I would be surprised if even 25% of players have ever read the books of sorrow

LOL

Yeah basically

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/books-of-sorrow

This is the hive bible

The hivble, if you will

If you want to know about the hive, THIS IS THE LORE

Possibly the most important lore book in destiny, now that unveiling is in question after the witness origin cutscene.

[sonic geode]

i wouldnt be surprised at all if the lore department of bungie was a dozen guys in the bottom floor just trying to make some some of link between everything everyone else at bungie is doing with the game

[ember storm]

apparently Ikora hasn’t either

WQ pretended it’s supposed to be a revelation that the thing calling itself “the honest worm” is a liar

[dim minnow]

I knew the Syzygy being caused by the Traveler was bs long before WQ

though it is likely that the Syzygy did happen since while the Osmium sisters were diving into the depths of Fundament, they found evidence of it starting

[torpid flint]

I mean… he’s not wrong

[fresh zephyr]

i was no lifing this game and then missed season 21

what happened?

[torpid flint]

Uuhhhhhhhhh yes

[fresh zephyr]

holy shit I just watched the witnesses cutscene

THE WITNESS WAS JUST BEING FUCKIN SALTY

mfs lost the traveler, turned into 1 guy, and went to kill a bunch of ppl

that's really cool lore actually

so yeah the witness just controls the darkness sorta

[tawdry mauve]

i dont think you really understood the point of the cutscene

[fresh zephyr]

haha no

[torpid flint]

The witness do be witnessing

[fresh zephyr]

I just learned all of that

so

yeah

[fresh zephyr]

I don't read into lore that much

[desert tree]

so did Eris just turn herself into a hive god?

[tawdry wigeon]

Yo

[wooden gazelle]

yeah i think savathun was spying on us for lightfall

[tawdry wigeon]

Idk about that

[wooden gazelle]

the witness lied to her whole species

[tawdry wigeon]

Her ghost said she is temporarily dead

[wooden gazelle]

well i mean, her ghost

[tawdry wigeon]

So i dont think she did spy on us

Yea her ghost

We saw her die

Btw ghost lore will go hard

So the traveler this whole time was looking for a race to protect her from the darkness?

[wooden gazelle]

more so an army

one to combat the forces of the witness i think

im curious what role the veil will play in all of this

[tawdry wigeon]

The veil is the key to the cheat code of the universe

Having them both will make you op

Now idk how much we know about it i couldn't see the post showcase where they answered questions like that

[wild marsh]

sign me up

[rich veldt]

thats some interesting lore right there

[fresh zephyr]

maybe

[rich veldt]

;spoiler

[candid inlet]

SPOILER RESTRICTION IN EFFECT UNTIL <t:1692896400:f>.

• Newly revealed content should go in ⁠#1143199265712259112 or ⁠#1143201379322707990, violations could be met with a warning or mute.
• During this period, streaming video in our voice channels is disabled.

[rich veldt]

seasonal stuff aswell btw

[rapid remnant]

My bad. Deleted the message

[fresh zephyr]

I forgot what the witness was^^;

Is that bad?

[languid gulch]

The witness is a stupid head with an ugly unibrow

Your welcomd

[red comet]

Stupid heads* (he is technically a collective)

[fresh zephyr]

Stupid heads* (they are* technically a collective)

[jagged badge]

It is*

[trim grotto]

*I am

[tulip knoll]

The Final Shape raid better live up to its hype

Brought on by Bungie

[odd flicker]

So, does Eris have a worm now? Or is all this tribute going straight to her?

[tulip knoll]

Immaru said she’s “a hive” so idk

Maybe

But this form she’s taken is also temporary I think ikora said

But she can be consumed and lost in it

If she isn’t careful

[tawdry mauve]

she took out the middleman

[odd flicker]

Wow, ok so she's actually getting quite a lot of power out of this.

She doesn't have to feed anything to a worm.

I still think that the idea that we're going to buff up Eris enough to fight Xivu is insane though.

[jagged badge]

Isn’t this conversation all #1143199265712259112 stuff?

[thorny pelican]

Hey anyone know which lore books I’m missing on this page?

[frigid sparrow]

"the end will lay eyes on him and weep at his magnificence" damn I forgot how hard that line is

[mystic fern]

So is Eris Savathun?

[jagged badge]

No?

Eris is Eris

[broken zephyr]

who is the "Unknown Guardian" at the end of Presage (or am I reading too deep into this and it actually is some rando)

[jagged badge]

Katabasis, a Guardian who worked for Calus as a Shadow iirc

[jagged badge]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-captains-log?highlight=Captain’s+log

[broken zephyr]

interesting

[tawdry mauve]

no

[worn kernel]

sigh on the possibility if Eris starts slipping and lose herself throughout this season, which creates a new villain for us to fight later on,It’s gonna hurt if we have to put her down. I’ve remembered her since the days of “Dark Below” release.

[trim grotto]

If there's anyone I trust to withstand this, it's Eris.

[worn kernel]

But now I’m picturing how Drifter’s gonna take the news. The Rat’s Moondust has turned into Hivedust.

[worldly river]

This is the first time I'v actually been concerned about Eris because she sounds like she's reveling in this a bit much

I don't think she's at risk of losing herself to the power so much as losing herself to the ability to enact vengeance upon the Hive

[ember storm]

she's always done it

[worldly river]

Also the lore tab for... Idr if it was the artifact or what but something was indicating she can change back to human form relatively at will, cuz Rahool reported seeing her change and fleeing in fear at one point

[ember storm]

her behavior in nightmare containment comes to mind

she's always been vindictive

[worldly river]

Yeah she seems to be good at keeping any potentially negative behaviour directed straight at the enemy

Honestly it seems like her strong emotions against the Hive are what KEEP her from falling to corruptive influence

[ember storm]

remember her actions in the dark future are solely dependent upon not being able to avenge her friends and also not coping with the trauma

we've helped her with these things

[worldly river]

Yeah I'm not worried about that particular outcome, of her becoming "evil" or becoming a tool of the Witness

Though it doesn't escape my attention that this or a similar form is likely what she took as the Witch Queen in that future

Once again our influence at work there

[ember storm]

someone with the agency of a house plant and brain activity of a brick wall is a good listener

sometimes you just need someone to vent to

[worldly river]

I'm more concerned in the sense that you'd be concerned about a friend taking a vendetta too far and getting themselves hurt in the process

[ember storm]

lord knows it's the vast majority of all our contributions

i'm honestly hoping she manages to direct this toward toland sometime

he's the entire reason everything went down the way it did and he's still farting around the ascendant plane

she should be able to conjure up her hive powers and pull a "i lived bitch"

[worldly river]

I thought it was funny during the weekly mission when she lists the names of the fallen and Toland among them, like girl you know he's still around and being a douche lol

At least I think she does

I think the Vanguard is aware and if they are so should she

[ember storm]

she does

she mentions it in the cleansing of his nightmare

like

"this mf isn't even dead why do i care about him"

"his book was a good read ig"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqG1hh9cDf8&ab_channel=Aydarkzero

[slim elk]

Hate to be that guy
But shouldn't latest seasonal stuff still be in #1143199265712259112 ?

[jagged badge]

#1143199265712259112

[kindred fractal]

mb

[grand jungle]

What’s caydes ghost name

[jagged badge]

Sundance

[grand jungle]

thats a cool name

[hardy anvil]

I swear Sundance is the name of the solar subclass

[grand jungle]

can the traveller give poukas light?

[real ingot]

Sunsinger

[subtle iris]

honestly with the whole eris thing its making me think back to the exo strangers time line and how eris was the witch queen

[fast tapir]

I'd rather dance than sing

[trim grotto]

It'd have to be resurrected by a Ghost, the chances of which are slim to none.

But hypothetically, if it were not dead/distracted, then... potentially. It's not impossible.

[gritty hollow]

Just say yes or no

[trim grotto]

It isn't really a yes or no question. It is possible under many hypothetical scenarios. Right now, it can't even be considered.

[gritty hollow]

Than just say

Maybe

[jagged badge]

Or Mael can say what he wants?

[gritty hollow]

Or or or

Worm

[hardy anvil]

💀

[gritty hollow]

So funny

Hahaha

🫥

[hardy anvil]

?

What is jit talking about

[sleek glade]

so basically a robot takes over your body and amplifies you and gives you different abilities, almost like the symbiotes suck as carnage

[hardy anvil]

I've got a question.
As we've seen what happens with Cayde, has it been stated why this hasn't happened much to other guardians?

"happens with Cayde" as in opponents targeting the ghost instead

[real ingot]

We have no idea why Cayde is back yet

and in targetting case

Usually ghost hide during battle

[hardy anvil]

I be pulling out that shit every second.
Also, don't they expose themselves for resurrections?

[trim grotto]

Maybe also does not adequately cover it.

[trim grotto]

Yes.

[jagged badge]

It probably does happen to many other Guardians

But perhaps they might have a fireteam member covering the Ghost’s rez

[trim grotto]

It does and has

[hardy anvil]

We've seen quite the amount of instances of it happening.
But I swear it doesn't happen as often as it should be

[trim grotto]

A lot of it is historical. And we largely work in fireteams now. Ghosts have learned to be careful.

But look at, say, Savathûn's Song. The old Titan Strike. Half a dozen Ghosts per crystal.

[hardy anvil]

[ember storm]

we just almost never see it ingame because bungie isn't really planning on killing most characters

but also it happened at the beginning of Curse of Osiris

[trim grotto]

Also, look at Season of the Risen. Guardian corpses littered the fields during the EDZ PsiOps.

[ember storm]

Osiris thought it was too dangerous for Sagira to even be in the infinite forest, and sent her away, but she was struck by a vex bolt whie she was being ejected

[ember storm]

yeah but i don't think all of them were cases of "the guardian had their ghost out and the ghost got shot first"

more often than not i think it'd just work like how we deal with lucent hive

kill the risen and the ghost is defenseless

[trim grotto]

Yes I suppose
Kinda what I thought we were describing

[ember storm]

unless you're drifter's or sloane's, i guess

[trim grotto]

But yes

[ember storm]

we still deserve to give ours knives

[coarse bluff]

I think all the enemies r just dumb bcz within like 2 minutes of meeting a hive ghost the guardian works out how to permanently kill a hive guardian

[hardy anvil]

I mean, we have spectated them aim for guardian's ghosts

Example being Zavala

It's just kind of weird that in-game, it doesn't seem like a common occurrence

[cyan monolith]

Grab smash and leave

[coarse bluff]

Exactly

[coarse bluff]

True

No idea

I have a theory about y it might not be

But idk if that’s a spoiler or not

[safe galleon]

ghost isn't out or exposed the majority of the time

[coarse bluff]

Bcz it’s based on what they said in the showcase

[safe galleon]

the ghost dematerializes and hides... somewhere when it's not actively being summoned out

which is probably why recovery healing only happens when you haven't taken damage for a while, now that i think about it, since we see with cayde that guardians bring out the ghost for it to heal them

when their hive guardian dies, the hive ghost comes out to try and resurrect them, which is why they're out in the open

[hardy anvil]

^ we were pretty much discussing this too.
We just came to the conclusion that they die a fuck ton.

[safe galleon]

guardians don't usually pull the ghost out inside of combat

[hardy anvil]

Nah. I said that as satire

[safe galleon]

we players might but in-universe it's something that only people like cayde would do

that being, really reckless and impulsive

[hardy anvil]

Like my actions of constantly pulling it out definitely isn't something all guardians do

How else am I supposed to change characters and check my directory with ease?

[safe galleon]

ghosts are also insanely small and agile targets. they have full free range of movement and flight

small enough to fit in the palm of your hand

so like, good luck hitting it even if it's not actively being guarded by what is practically a demigod in the flesh

soldiers are trained to shoot center mass because it gives the largest margin of error and the head is nearly an impractically small and mobile target. with that in mind, imagine trying to hit something even smaller, about the size of a human fist while it's in motion with a much wider range of movement

[hardy anvil]

Say that to Cayde, Osiris, and Zavala

[ember storm]

why do you say that

[safe galleon]

cayde's ghost was floating in place and zavala's was taken completely off guard

[hardy anvil]

All of them got their ghosts shot at

[safe galleon]

idk about osiris

[ember storm]

wow Zavala's ghost was hit by a projectile while completely stationary during a treaty signing as a show of respect?

crazy

[hardy anvil]

Also, they stay completely stationary while reviving you.
Like they can just walk up and squish

[ember storm]

that's where paracausality comes in

any normal person can't just walk up and crush a ghost like a can

[safe galleon]

you realize they don't have to come res the guardian right away right. like they can leave you and come back when whatever killed you loses interest in your corpse

[ember storm]

guardians do it because they're inherently paracausal

they're also not completely stationary when rezzing

[safe galleon]

if the hive ghosts just left and came back when you weren't looking and rezzed their guardians, that would be hella unfun. conversely if your ghost noped out in the middle of a raid boss and nobody could res that would be hella boring

[hardy anvil]

Leaving the squishing matters aside, they can still shoot it tho as what was the example earlier

[safe galleon]

like many things, its mostly gameplay

as to why ghosts just kinda sit there to res in game

[ember storm]

and?

ghosts can get shot yes

what's your point

[hardy anvil]

I don't know much about it but don't they have something where light will fade away the longer they're dead?

[ember storm]

no

[safe galleon]

not really lol

[hardy anvil]

The point is that as previous examples have shown, what's stopping them from literally just sniping the shit out of our ghosts?

[ember storm]

it was specifically mentioned that Sundance was as dumb and reckless as cayde

as in basically no other ghost is actively out in a warzone just hanging out

if a guardian is alone and gets picked off, then them's the brakes

but this is why fireteams exist

[safe galleon]

why do some people just completely ignore detailed explanations

and also remember ghosts can phase out of physical space at will, theyre practically impossible to kill like that

[ember storm]

try sniping this bad boy

[safe galleon]

90% of the time they're not even there to shoot

[ember storm]

can't hit what's not there

simple as that

[hardy anvil]

I ignored it cause it didn't feel conclusive enough as to why there's not enough deaths

[velvet flax]

💀💀

[ember storm]

what's "enough deaths" to you?

[velvet flax]

Ignoring a well reasoned argument because it doesn't suit theirs 💀

[hardy anvil]

I know it sounds ignorant of me

[ember storm]

we have an operation where there's a bunch of guardian corpses like every dlc

[safe galleon]

no it just is ignorant lol

[hardy anvil]

That's what I said

[safe galleon]

but anyway i'm ignoring your line of questioning because you're just completely neglecting both the obvious practical reason and the actual explained concrete Lore Reason™️ that the ghosts physically Are Not There To Shoot At

[hardy anvil]

It just didn't feel like an answer I was satisfied with because "their aim sucks"

[ember storm]

nothing was said about the enemy aim?

[safe galleon]

how much training do you think you'd need to accurately hit a person's hand with a firearm at range while it's actively moving

like, only their hand

with reasonable accuracy

[ember storm]

if the hitboxes weren't absurd nobody would be able to shoot those explosive moths

[hardy anvil]

Within the sentence, they're describing that it's difficult to shoot the ghost.
I wasn't particularly satisfied with it

[ember storm]

now imagine trying to hit that but it's actively running away

[safe galleon]

hint: there's no amount of training that makes a target that small, moving that erratically, consistent or practical to hit, even if you had training and knew where to aim

[safe galleon]

back to this i'm curious what you think 💀

[hardy anvil]

There's so many situations where the ghost is just vulnerable so it just seemed so weird to me that we don't just outright die because of a few stray bullets or a well placed snipe

[safe galleon]

real life people in real life combat who are trained to shoot other people are actively trained to avoid shooting at the head because it's an unviable target. again, a ghost is much much smaller than a human head and can move much more erratically and dynamically

and there is no larger body attached to it

[jagged badge]

If you’re talking about us literally, the Young Wolf, then of course enemies aren’t going to shoot our Ghosts

[hardy anvil]

I mean, in real life, they aren't really facing up against hive bosses tbf

[ember storm]

me when the video game is a video game

[jagged badge]

The game isn’t gonna perma delete your character just because you died once

[ember storm]

hive bosses are objectively way easier targets

their heads are the size of cars

[safe galleon]

and also i still havent seen you address the fact that ghosts can literally just Evacuate The Physical Space They Are In And Dematerialize

[hardy anvil]

Are you basically saying they're always immortal?

[safe galleon]

like even disregarding eeeeverything else i said that is still a thing

[ember storm]

the fuck does immortality have to do with it

the bottom line is you can't shoot something that's literally not in material existence

[hardy anvil]

Cause my point is that there's so many situations where they're vulnerable. I'm asking about those situations.

[ember storm]

such as what

[safe galleon]

no i'm saying they can just not be there to shoot if they don't want to be

[jagged badge]

And many times when Ghosts are vulnerable in lore they die

Seriously, what point are you actually trying to make here?

[safe galleon]

okay back to my other question how much training do you think you'd have to have with firearms to take off someone's hand with a gunshot from range while it's moving

[ember storm]

the distinction is that cases where ghosts are vulnerable are few and far inbetween

[safe galleon]

like at what point do you think that skill becomes practical or consistent

[ember storm]

and more often than not situations where a ghost is in danger is a situation where the guardian is already dead

[hardy anvil]

I'm not making a point. The question was in those situations where the ghost have been vulnerable multiple times, what's stopping them from just outright shooting the ghost dead.

[ember storm]

what situations?

[hardy anvil]

Scenarios of hacking or reviving you

[safe galleon]

it is a flying orb the size of a fist

[hardy anvil]

Scenarios of healing you

[jagged badge]

Are you still talking about gameplay?

With us?

[ember storm]

healing happens automatically

[safe galleon]

you can move when it heals you and you aren't dead

[ember storm]

they don't need to be out of our "backpack" to do so

hence why Sundance was specifically referenced as reckless and stupid

[hardy anvil]

Why did Cayde call out his ghost then?

[ember storm]

ghost literally directly mentions it in the mission where you kill the rifleman

she was just stupid

[hardy anvil]

Yeah but why summon the ghost?

[ember storm]

why stand still in the middle of a fire fight?

ask cayde

he still did it anyway

[jagged badge]

Wait fr?

[hardy anvil]

Tbf he likes to be dramatic

[safe galleon]

if your ghost is hacking something, chances are you're still alive and i need to remind you that guardians are practically demigods and are actively defending/giving cover to the ghost by being between them and enemies and more importantly killing a bunch of shit

[ember storm]

he talks about her reckless nature and also points out it's just smarter to never arbitrarily leave their wherever they go when they vanish

[hardy anvil]

We are demigods?

Zamn

[safe galleon]

oh my god

[ember storm]

did you not catch the part where magic comes from our fingertips

[safe galleon]

i'm saying that in the sense that we're insanely strong

in comparison to most other species

[jagged badge]

Oh yeah I found the quote now

[hardy anvil]

That was also satirical

[jagged badge]

You know, there's a reason I keep a low profile when you fight. It's just smarter. But Cayde's Ghost was just like him. Flashy, cocky… and incredibly competent. She didn't deserve to go down like that.

[ember storm]

anyway

[little gorge]

that's why every hacking encounter has "defend ghost" as the objective

[safe galleon]

this discussion is making my brain cells wither away

[ember storm]

the "reason" enemies ingame don't kill ghost is because it's a video game

[hardy anvil]

Now that's interesting

[jagged badge]

Literally exactly what Waltz already said

[ember storm]

yeah it's only the exact thing we were saying the whole time

[hardy anvil]

It just felt like such an unsatisfactory answer for me

But I can see the points

[ember storm]

what would be a "satisfying" answer?

[safe galleon]

okay now you're just fucking sealioning i'm not wasting my time on this

[ember storm]

it's a video game, not everything is going to line up with the actual universe

[safe galleon]

have a good day waltz i'm going to bed

[ember storm]

mobs don't kill your ghosts because it's a video game

[safe galleon]

[ember storm]

simple as that

[hardy anvil]

Not really the point of this tho

[ember storm]

t's the same reason we just take arc damage from pools of radiolaria instead of painfully and horrifyingly being transformed into vex

[ember storm]

they were the only instances of "those situations" you brought up

[trim grotto]

alright
work is finished
i am home
what's the topic

[empty fern]

Go play the new season to get whatever lore you can find

[trim grotto]

honestly yeah i've barely played yet

[empty fern]

But be warned

Summoning activity is like warframe forever missions

[ember storm]

I haven’t finished defiance or deep

I just know how they both end

[empty fern]

Sadness

[ember storm]

has Amanda even been referenced lately

[empty fern]

Uhhhh, nope

Not that I know of atleast

[trim grotto]

Not this season, but yes

Actually wait

yes this season too

[empty fern]

Oop

[modern geyser]

I identify as transparent my pronouns are who/where

[trim grotto]

Uh, sure. Do you have a question about lore?

[modern geyser]

Not for you

[jagged badge]

[trim grotto]

right

[jagged badge]

Wrong

[trim grotto]

[fiery copper]

...But with less rewards

Actually

[ember storm]

walking up and shooting a guardian in the head

frowned upon or no

[fiery copper]

To be fair in warframe you don't get weapons

[fiery copper]

It still hurts like getting shot in the head and is kinda inconvenient so I'd say it's frowned upon

[ember storm]

so it’s legal

[fresh zephyr]

it's fuckin funny

a hunter going up to a titan who's being interviewed about what the red war was like, then shooting him in the head with ace

[empty fern]

Titan wouldn’t even stop their sentence if it’s like lore

[fresh zephyr]

exactly what I was referencing

[empty fern]

Oop

[fresh zephyr]

lmao

[worn kernel]

With every fiber of my body, I wanted to give Immaru the same treatment I gave to other hive ghosts(Fynch being the exception) and end him right there in that cutscene. He has a big mouth, but i have a bigger fist.

[empty fern]

I have a gun

Let’s put immaru into the gun

THATS HOW WE GONNA GET REVERES RED DEATH (trust me)

[worn kernel]

Hulk Hogan voice: “OOOOHHHH YEAH GET IN THE GUN BRRRROTHERR!”

[trim grotto]

The idea of a Ghost with a mouth is... interesting

[worn kernel]

My Guardian would just hang out at the Ramen shop and casually put a spoon of broth in front of my ghost’s eye as if I was trying to feed them.

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/squishing-orange-the-mitchells-vs-the-machines-trying-to-eat-eat-an-orange-mitchells-vs-machines-gif-21432312

Yes

[fiery copper]

Hey quick question can you read this for me I suddenly went blind and can't tell what it says

[empty fern]

Hah no

[fiery copper]

I'm acting like I'm illiterate because that's what youd have to be in order to miss that new things go in spoiler chat

[worn kernel]

sheesh, what kind of green engram drop did you get for your weekly rewards? 'Sides that, I'll keep it in mind.

[fiery copper]

Your dad was busy yesterday so I'm in a bad mood after not being able to ruin your parents' marriage one night at a time

[frigid sparrow]

Hey lore chat how's it goi-

[worn kernel]

Hey quick question can you read this for me I suddenly went blind and can't tell what it says.

[jagged badge]

Play nice y’all

[worn kernel]

Hah, nah I'm just ribbing on you, chief. Now if you'll excuse me, It's Gambit Time flips jade coin

[jagged badge]

[fresh zephyr]

lore accurate

[empty fern]

Anyways

New neomuna archive lore, how is it

[fresh zephyr]

it's

ok

[fresh zephyr]

interesting that the uh exo I forget her name was maya

Maya sundaresh made Lakshmi-2

[smoky rose]

That's older

[smoky rose]

Aight

Basically traveler and veil were once a single thing

The body and the mind if you were

[jagged badge]

Not necessarily

Osiris says himself it’s a theory, and not one he’s all that convinced by

[plush sequoia]

Yo, so I was during Public events and I had a question pop into my head. Wtf is up with House dusk? Are they still standing? Who is their kell? What are their thoughts on the political division between House Light and Houre Salvation?

[ember storm]

between D1 and D2, due to all the houses routinely struggling with just existing, they all basically just banded together under one banner for the sake of survival

they're not holing up in specific territory or trying to accomplish a grander goal, they're just trying not to die

Salvation was created under the pretense of a new, better chance at life, but it was quickly revealed to be war-mongering and hostile in nature, so not all fallen joined

likewise, not every fallen is willing to try and ally with humanity

basically the "I just wanna grill" of fallen houses

[plush sequoia]

Do we have info on a kell? Or at least a government figure?

[real ingot]

They don't have one

they just go around

surviving

[ember storm]

it was technically founded by uldren sov but nobody really cares about it

[real ingot]

He's weird anyway

[ember storm]

he's dead anyway

[dim minnow]

I don't think he founded Dusk

[ember storm]

the kell of kings bowed to him under the condition he'd set out to relay the message that eliksni needed to give up their rivalries and band together

it's the reason he was welcomed by the dusk members when he visited the edz shard

i have no idea what you're talking about #1143199265712259112

[dim minnow]

moderator forgot the rules

[real ingot]

Ban yourself

rulebreaker

[ember storm]

insurrection

[shadow warren]

Oh shit my bad

Bad mod

[jagged badge]

[real ingot]

[wild marsh]

So, Cayde's will. He said that whoever killed him gets to inherit his gun, his position, and Colonel. If that's the case, why doesn't the Crow have Ace of Spades? Is there something I'm missing in the lore?

[vapid nebula]

ok, i thought nezarec was a prisoner or so that got freed by accident. in the questions channel i heared he got revived by accident. are there infos on why he was dead and why his dead body wasnt dumped into the next sun or so?

[dim minnow]

at that point, Crow wasn't around

also there is alot of semantics surrouding the dare

[green cobalt]

☝️ 🤓 technically Uldren Sov killed him

[wild marsh]

savathun shanked the lad 😔

[dim minnow]

you can argue that Uldren Sov =/= Crow (which is true)

[vapid nebula]

oh god, i wish we didnt kill her... she could have kicked his butt again, but now we have to res her... Why did I get resd by my ghost half a year ago and not 2 years ago?? XDD

[green cobalt]

we didn't need her, we killed Nezarec the second time

[vapid nebula]

ok, but where does her sister come from rn?

[ember storm]

wdym

[green cobalt]

xivu arath? way way way back

[vapid nebula]

|| Didnt the ghost in the beginning say we have to kill her sister now ||

[vapid nebula]

ok thx

[jagged trellis]

Yes

[jagged trellis]

We have to kill her sister so Savathûn ghost can revive Savathûn so we can get answers how to stop the witnesses

[ruby pivot]

is there any lore tab about how the other character react to eris being a hive witch?

like crow or caitl

i already know about elsie being pissed about it

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/kept-confidence
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/locus-locutus
Here's a couple

[dim minnow]

embed fail x2

[trim grotto]

it didn't fail, i removed it

[ruby pivot]

thanks man

[real ingot]

Nezarec was killed by Savathun during the collapse likely during the Pyramid's battle with the Traveler and his remains were cursed and kept in his Pyramid until the Eliksni cut it up

His head likely remained inside it until Calus arrived during Haunted

[ember storm]

would the fallen have really taken everything aside from the head?

[gentle geyser]

Probably

[real ingot]

No clue

[ember storm]

there's still the whole thing in plunder about the witness ordering eramis to recover the corpse parts

[real ingot]

We just know it wasn't cut up and the Witness had his head

Now I can't speak from experience

But I'd cut the horns off

[dim minnow]

someone did take a single eye

[ember storm]

it was a good snack

[lapis plinth]

hey so correct me if im wrong

but ||doesnt every bad timeline or whatever usually center around eris morn||

like ||her turning evil||

[real ingot]

just around Eris is a big simplification

[lapis plinth]

massive

[real ingot]

that's something that happens during it

plenty of shit goes wrong in the Dark Future

[lapis plinth]

im worried that with the hive magic and stuff ||we'll go down a dark future||

[real ingot]

eh

[lapis plinth]

theres several dark futures right

[real ingot]

we avoided it

BH is gone

[lapis plinth]

whats BH

[pearl basin]

yes

uldren sov is dead

uldren killed cayde

uldren gets ace

we killed uldren

we got the ace

:)

[ruby pivot]

we kill other guardians with our ace

we take their ace, then we look under their helmet, they are us

[pearl basin]

in crucible yes

lol

[ruby pivot]

in short crucible is a culling of every weak and febble version of us

[pearl basin]

btw hows your opinion on the new season

[ruby pivot]

only the true "guardian" remains on top and claim their name

[trim grotto]

No.

[pearl basin]

i was dumbstruck watching eris turning into a goth mommy

[ruby pivot]

from what i heard that eris morn from elsie timeline never recovered from her trauma

[real ingot]

Black heart

[ruby pivot]

our eris is driven by vengeance(as she said in some dialogue) and duty

drifter is also not a coward in our universe

unlike elsie's drifter he want to become an exo of sorts to live long

idk

drifter trusts eris, eris trusts drifter i suppose

[pearl basin]

i absolutely loved immarus last line
Welcome to the hive

that was badass

i love the theme

[ruby pivot]

the seasonal ornament seems like one of the designer played remnant 2 too much

[pearl basin]

Lol

Anything hive related just makes.me excited

[hollow zealot]

is there lore over enemies seeing guardians just fucking dancing mid battle?

[smoky rose]

Yes

Actually

[hollow zealot]

oh

neat

i wanna see

[smoky rose]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-cabal-4

[plush sequoia]

Question Regarding our cabal allies. Where is their HQ? Where is Caiatl spending her time when she isn't being passive agressive over radio

[trim grotto]

In orbit, on her flagship.

[plush sequoia]

In the earth's orbit?

[trim grotto]

Well, sometimes. It's a ship. It moves around.

The fleet is their home now, with the loss of Torobatl.

[plush sequoia]

At the begining of Witch Queen, Ghost said That Caiatl gave the command to retake Mars as cabal terroritory. Has there been any further development on that situation?

[trim grotto]

Not particularly. Our alliance has strengthened since then, though.

[rare vale]

I am returned

Good morning Mael

[trim grotto]

[rare vale]

How’s the lore

I heard there were some big developments recently with the release of Deep’s final cinematic

[real ingot]

yeah there's been some big stuff

[rare vale]

I wish I was there in person finals held me back

I imagine the channel was a messs

[real ingot]

when isn't it

[rare vale]

Now? I spose

What is the general opinion on the reveal

[real ingot]

mixed

I like it

some hate it

[rare vale]

I don’t know how I feel about it. I’ve been away for a bit because of school.

Not sure how much I like the Witness’ race just ‘stumbling’ on the Veil

Though I don’t have much context for it

It gave me similar vibes to the Fallen story

I personally liked the Blue Monkey theory more

[dim minnow]

I don't think they stumbled onto the Veil

they were looking for it

[raw hazel]

Tbh I was halfway checked out of Deep, and when the reveal came around I had already put the game down

I’m still not quite sure how I feel about it

[rare vale]

I couldn’t follow it well either

Either they stumbled on it or found a signal of it by chance

But I’m not sure they knew it existed because I don’t know how they’d know of it

I’ll have to rewatch the reveal

[dim minnow]

what reveal again?

the Witness' origins cutscene?

[rare vale]

Mhm

[dim minnow]

yeah, Ahsa says that their scholars discovered the existence of an entity once linked to the Traveler

which was the Veil

[rare vale]

Ah gotcha

Did it explain why the Traveler left?

[dim minnow]

yeah

[rare vale]

Something about it didn’t want to be revered?

[dim minnow]

so the Witness' species tried to use the Veil on the Traveler so it could enforce its view on reality

turn it into the FInal Shape

the Traveler knew that this was bad so it bailed on them

[rare vale]

Oh so they’ve always wanted the Final Shape

To like, become gods I spose?

[dim minnow]

they didn't until the encountered the Veil

the Traveler blessed them, but never gave them purpose

[rare vale]

Gotcha, since it never speaks

[dim minnow]

it speaks, but never lets its voice be heard

the best voices after all

[rare vale]

Mhm

[dim minnow]

anyways, when the Witness' people claimed the Veil, they also had a realization that the Light can just as easily destroy as it can create

[trim grotto]

A universe of chaos with a silent unknowable god. The Witness's people demanded order. Meaning. Purpose.
So they began to forge one. To create a Final Shape, a perfect calcified end to the universe. A point to it all.

[dim minnow]

they then viewed the Light as chaos

[rare vale]

I mean it is chaos, and it terrified them

[dim minnow]

as they studied the Veil, however, they saw a way to bring order

[rare vale]

Because there is no reason in something that doesn’t have a defined form

[rare vale]

[dim minnow]

and then as I said, they tried to link the Veil to the Traveler so they could control reality and calcify it into the Final Shape

and the Traveler fled from them as a result

it was then that the Witness' people merged themselves into a singular being, the Witness

[rare vale]

I can see why people have mixed reactions to it

I kinda like it but again I don’t have proper context

Thanku Dova

[dim minnow]

people were expecting much more eldritch/Unveiling level stuff I suppose

[raw hazel]

I know I was

[rare vale]

Yeah I guess but who knows what they’ll pull in Final Shape

[rare vale]

Kinda same

[raw hazel]

Truth be told I’m just sticking around to see how it all ends in Final Shape

[rare vale]

Was more or less expecting like

Yeah eldritch is a good way to put it

I was more expecting like, the narrator of Unveiling to be involved

[raw hazel]

I suppose that might be where my hangup is, it doesn’t reconcile neatly with what has been established.

Like yeah they were already casting suspicion Unveiling with the lorebook from RoN. And I suppose you can fit it in through the lens of the Witness writing Unveiling to make it seem like existence was always supposed to have a purpose as it wanted to but like…

Iunno

[rare vale]

It seems a bit disconnected

[raw hazel]

Right

I know Destiny loves its unreliable narrators

But that doesn’t make it sit any better with me

[rare vale]

A bit of reliability would be nice

[raw hazel]

y e a h

I suppose in part it comes with me that Unveiling was my favorite piece of lore. And for so long it was the goto piece to explain a lot of things.

[rare vale]

I do see what you feel when it comes to the disconnect I have a similar stance. On big lore bits like this it’d be nice to have a general idea of what is going on.

[raw hazel]

And maybe some pieces of Unveiling are still true but like.. Sometimes it feels like they just want to constantly keep us guess and in the dark?

[rare vale]

I’m on hopium that they unpack Unveiling a bit more in Final Shape because like

[raw hazel]

Which makes sense I guess you don’t want to reveal everything

But like

[rare vale]

You can explain it from the Witness’ pov I guess but

[raw hazel]

still

[rare vale]

It’d make their species:

1. Extremely beyond arrogant, like- more arrogant than they already are.
2. I don’t feel like it really matches up

It still feels like we’re in the dark

[raw hazel]

Aye

[rare vale]

Is the Veil the Knife? Why are they equating the Traveler with themselves when they were asking for it to give them reason, things like that

[raw hazel]

My whole thing is I’ve always been interested in the Traveler, the Light, the Darkness- All that. So obviously Unveiling resonated a lot with me since it was our first actual sneak peek into all that.

But with the reveal of the Witness’ origins just throwing it all out for a loop, it feels like obfuscation for obfuscation’s sake.

Here we are 9 years into major story between to titanic forces at play in a conflict that in-universe has gone for what, billions years? And the conclusion of the conflict, the story, etc and like..

We still comparatively know very little still.

I mean we know why the Witness is doing what it does

Finally

But at the very least I feel the origin of the Traveler is in question

[rare vale]

But we still don’t know what the Traveler is… exactly

Yeah

[raw hazel]

Yeah

[rare vale]

We know it is the Gardener but if the Witness is the Winnower then really what is that exactly what does that mean

[raw hazel]

My hope since we’re going inside the Traveler come Final Shape we finally actually learn about the Traveler in greater deal, ideally learn stuff from its perspective but like..

The fact it’s all coming at the end of everything

[rare vale]

We basically know nothing until we’re in the home stretch

[raw hazel]

I guess I’m just tired of all the set up they do, with comparatively little payoff after the fact

[rare vale]

I guess the payoff is supposed to be in Final Shape since they’re repeating the story now and not before the Witness reveal

[raw hazel]

And at times it feels more like a ‘Gotcha!’ than anything substantial

[rare vale]

But it better be a bomb of a payoff

[raw hazel]

That’s what I’m hoping for

At this point I’m just here to see how it plays out

[rare vale]

We can still learn stuff in Witch and further seasons I suppose but only learning about the Witness now is really…

How long have we known abt the Witness

[real ingot]

We've known a voice in the darkness exists since SK

WQ was when it first appeared

[rare vale]

Yeah so like

The pacing of information is off but I guess they only really solidified the story in the later years

Still they could’ve given us a bit more spread over the time we had

[real ingot]

story likely changed massively after the split

[rare vale]

Especially with unreliable narrators like in Unveiling

I just hope we get the eldritch stuff in FS

And one hell of a payoff

[real ingot]

I'll be surprised if we learn anything about what the Traveler and Veil are

[rare vale]

If we don’t I’m not considering it a payoff

[real ingot]

Cosmic entities beyond our comprehension

You can't understand stuff like that

[rare vale]

Yeah I think that’s bad writing in this case gonna be honest

[real ingot]

especially when said entities are connected to the foundations of the universe

[rare vale]

Cosmic entities beyond comprehension works if the characters cannot interact with it

[real ingot]

You can interact with things and not understand it

[rare vale]

Oh you can

But it feels awful in writing

I’m not going to make a whole story about some thing I refuse to explain but tease the explanation for for several years and then give 0 explanation and have it fade out of the story at the very end

That’s just unsatisfying

[real ingot]

They did not tease learning about what these entities were at all

[rare vale]

Unveiling

[real ingot]

Unveiling's story has been seen as suspicious since it came out

literally sent by a being we theorised gave Oryx the power to take

[raw hazel]

And that is exactly my issue

It feels like it’s just been a constant dripfeed of breadcrumbs and maybe without anything of true substance until we’re finally almost done with the story

And the stuff of substance that is revealed at time feels like it doesn’t much basis or buildup

Buildup and payoff are important in most stories I feel

At least coming from someone that does a lot of creative writing

I know all the constant changes behind the scenes haven’t helped, I know covid didn’t help, and I’m sure there’s plenty more going on behind the scenes given how Lightfall turned out (even speaking as someone that quite enjoyed Lightfall)

But, despite all that Destiny went from someone that captured my attention and imagination almost daily to..

Something frankly I’m just checked out of most of the time. Apathetic, almost.

I hope to the stars that the very least Final Shape is in someway satisfactory

Though that’s my rant for the night, I don’t think I should clog up the channel too much

[rare vale]

The rant is fair tho

And I agree

[raw hazel]

I guess I’m just tired

[rare vale]

The Witness reveal wasn’t bad at all but I just want more

More context

Mostly

[raw hazel]

I’ve been here since the start of the franchise and seeing these same patterns that have been around since the beginning is just

Tiresome

(That and I’m just over live-service games as a concept)

[royal portal]

word for word my opinion since witness reveal

we should never have interacted with the witness (a bad character) only locations and their aftermath

they already had a setup, everything beyond the solar system is under a literal darkness and the bastions between (cabal, psion homeworlds, clipse ruins/paradise balls, egregore PLANETS) could have been increasingly eldritch abominations

[little gorge]

that's a shit take

[raw hazel]

Honestly the idea in and of itself is interesting

Never directly seeing a threat, only ever seeing the aftermath/byproducts of its presence

I am stealing this idea for.. Iunno what but I am low on inspiration nowadays

[little gorge]

so how does the story end then

also the universe isn't "under literal darkness"

[raw hazel]

I’m talking about the general idea of it, not the implications to the greater story surrounding it in the context of Destiny

[little gorge]

also how do you end that story

[raw hazel]

I’ll maybe get back to you on that when I have more time than 10 minutes to think on it

Thinking through how a story takes place takes time

At least for my own creative process

[ruby pivot]

yooo so is eris morn title right now the god of vengeance?

i got her dialogue "tithe unto the god of vengeance" and oh aiat thing (wtheck is aiat)

and from what i read, thanks to her transformation she now joins the circle of the 3 hive god sisters?

[velvet flax]

Yes

Aiat means 'so be it' and similar. It's like the Hive version of Amen

[lofty badge]

Huh

Neat

[jagged badge]

It is this way because it cannot be any other way

[ruby pivot]

sound cool tbh, considering hive still owe eris

[versed orbit]

we're getting hands

scary edlritch hands

[lilac sable]

they put a lot of thought into making tessellation.
"A tessellation or tiling is the covering of a surface, often a plane, using one or more geometric shapes, called tiles, with no overlaps and no gaps."
there are only 3 shapes that can do perfect tessellation, triangles, hexagons and squares.
Triangles? like the pyramids? like pyramid ships? yep. that's also why the gun is a pyramid ship.
there is also the fact that the gun has all 6 colors of the subclasses... 6? did I say 6? I mean 5.
there is also the case that a hexagon is made up of 6 triangles, and as I said one of the shapes that can achieve tessellation

[empty fern]

You started off good then veered off into weird

[lilac sable]

and you're a poet, do you know it?

[empty fern]

Nope

Wait yes the content but no not a poet

[lilac sable]

veered and weird rhymed, so

anyway...

[empty fern]

Anyway, wait till spoiler effect is down THEN you can talk about tessalation

[fresh zephyr]

Was the “enemy of my enemy” quest canon? Bc I thought you can choose who lives and who dies in that situation

[empty fern]

Well, kinda canon?

We canonically killed the hive

Oh?

[fresh zephyr]

But killing mithrax wouldn’t change anything since he’s still alive currently?

[empty fern]

Yea

Also

[smoky rose]

Alright anyways

Spoilers dead

Witch is cool

eris do be a hive god

[empty fern]

Magical

Season of yu gi oh Harry Potter

[fading furnace]

what happen to eris morn and why do we have to keep that hive ghost

[tawdry wigeon]

Who was oryx before being oryx? Apparently he was a she?

[fresh zephyr]

trans oryx

[smoky rose]

Aurash

One of the daughters of the osmium king

[empty fern]

Who is osmium king

[smoky rose]

Aurash -> Auryx, the Navigator -> Oryx, the Taken King

[smoky rose]

Okay okay this goes for you and obama

So basically Fundament is a huge planet

Shit has what 56 moons

Occasionally they get sucked down to the planet and break up on impact

[jagged badge]

As a Krill Oryx was Aurash. As a Hive, Oryx was a male called Auryx. Auryx became Oryx when he learned how to Take

[smoky rose]

Given its largely a water world, this means that the Krill were split up across islands

There's two relevant factions for our story

Osmium Court and Helium Drinkers

[empty fern]

Hawaii planet

[smoky rose]

The Osmium King was Aurash/Sathona/Xi Ro's father

[empty fern]

Is there a helium king?

[smoky rose]

their teacher betrayed the osmium court and had the Helium Drinkers invade and kill the osmium king

[empty fern]

Ah

[smoky rose]

Aurash, Xi Ro, and Sathona escaped with their father's worm familiar (which had been whispering of a god wave, it was planted there by Rhulk)

It led them down in to the depths

They bypassed the leviathan

And met with the worm gods

At which point they took in the worm larvae and morphed

Sathona became Savathun and took on the mother morph
Xi Ro became Xivu Arath and took on the Knight morph
Aurash became Auryx and took on the King Morph, thus becoming male

They came back to the surface, made all the survivors into hive, and then obliterated the helium drinkers

Then the rest of fundament

Then they took the fight to the stars and fought a massive war with the Ammonite who occupied one of Fundament's moons and were blessed by the traveler

The Leviathan emerged from the depths to stand with the ammonite against the hive but was killed

[empty fern]

Wait

There’s a moon out there with the travelers light?

And also what leviathan on their planet?

[ember storm]

it was just blessing a civilization like it always does

the witness had the krill deceived into becoming the hive before the traveler went to bless them too

[slim elk]

Ever heard the concept of "war moons" for the Hive? Hive won the war and hollowed out many of Fundaments moons [including that one] as mobile bases

||Can techically see one ingame in the form of Luna... Earth's moon||

[ember storm]

Luna isn’t a war moon

[slim elk]

Nah, but heavily implied the Hive are trying to turn it into one.

[ember storm]

is it?

[slim elk]

Hellmouth, the hundreds of tunnels beneath the moon, presence of a Hive God using it as beachhead against earth..

[empty fern]

It could be soon

[slim elk]

It fits all the definitions of a Hive War Moon in progress

[ember storm]

no it doesn’t

[slim elk]

We wrecked their efforts when we killed Crota true, still have all the progress they made

[ember storm]

if they wanted to turn it into a war moon they’d have done so a long time ago

Crota only nested in the moon specifically so he’d be on earth’s doorsteps

[empty fern]

Who is khepri and why do we have a head and arm of them

[ember storm]

there’s no reason to make it mobile at that point

[ember storm]

Egyptian god

not an actual character named after them like Osiris

the exotics are specifically just referencing the god

[smoky rose]

Like a proper leviathan

Giant creature. spacefaring

Not like Ahsa size

Like big and powerful enough to keep all of the worm gods contained

Even after they became worm gods and not just proto-worms

[ember storm]

the leviathan that Rhulk epically called cringe and owned

[smoky rose]

Xita, Akka, Eir, Ur, Xol, Yul, Ahsa, Sel

And given they keep dropping new names on us there's probably more

[tulip knoll]

Idk, the rib from the leviathan looked about what I’d imagine ahsas rib size to be, I could be wrong tho

Unless the old leviathans had a super complicated skeleton

[fresh zephyr]

are there exo babies

or do they not exist

i was thinking of a infinite material farm

[ember storm]

what does that even mean

[fresh zephyr]

spawnkill

[raw hazel]

No

Exo babies are not a thing

[fresh zephyr]

electrical components farm

[fallen tangle]

Rimworld flashbacks intensify

Speaking of exos

Atraks is still "technically" still alive right?

Cause of the exo mind data bank?

[ember storm]

no

[fallen tangle]

Wait really? I thought with the Exo process it stores the mind of the person to pull back up later if needed?

[ember storm]

dunno if you noticed but Atraks isn’t really a part of the standard exo process that ended thousands of years ago

[tawdry mauve]

Dont get me started on people that think taniks was an exo after being brought back

[ember storm]

pretty sure the “exo body died but your mindscan is still there” was just a privilege for Clovis anyway

[little gorge]

it's implied there's multiple data banks so I don't think so

unless clovis made a lot of backups

which is a very clovis thing to do tbf

[fallen tangle]

Yeah our ghost references cayde is likely in there

[little gorge]

anyways even if you bring back an exo from their mindscan it's not really them as they don't have any memories

[tawdry mauve]

well

[fallen tangle]

And several lore bits mention clovis bringing new versions of brain dead exos

[tawdry mauve]

that depends on your view of nurture vs nature

[little gorge]

I'm pretty sure that's more of a "who knows maybe he's here"

[fallen tangle]

Yeah

[ember storm]

ship of theseus more like I’d say

[tawdry mauve]

no its definetely closer to nurture vs nature

[fallen tangle]

So even if Atraks is there its she's a full blown blank slate?

[tawdry mauve]

are we defined by our creation or by our experiences

[fallen tangle]

Especially likely because she's not a human?

[ember storm]

assuming anything of her creation was using standard Exo procedure

which I doubt

[little gorge]

exos change after resets so why not when being completely remade

[tawdry mauve]

well fair but thats being reset completely

[fallen tangle]

How could she have done it without the process in some form?

[tawdry mauve]

does having your mind stored in the bank count as a complete reset?