📚lore-discussion

[dim minnow]

and his Ghost was muted as well

she can't speak, but other than taht she is fine

he didn't really escape, more like he was found

[final geyser]

also could a guardian that's capable of channeling multiple elements channel multiple at once?

[empty fern]

Probably

[outer dragon]

Locked subclass stuff is a gameplay thing
In universe they mix and match. Osiris was shown in a cutscene using Void Solar and Arc in the same fight. Ikora, in WQ, Nova Bombed an Ogre and then immediately followed it up with a Chaos Reach to bust a Hive sealed door

[final geyser]

alright

[ember storm]

not a cutscene but he did it in the lore tab he was slaughtering Crota’s daughters in

[outer dragon]

Was it a trailer then? I distinctly remembered a video of him fighting Vex

[worldly river]

There was a cutscene of him fighting Vex that served as a leadin to Curse of Osiris (explaining why we found Sagira damaged in the sand on Mercury) but I don't particularly recall any unusual Light power usage, if any

[ember storm]

he only used dawnblade in that

[outer dragon]

I could have sworn he used multiple in that

Either way, he also did it during the fight with the High Celebrant right?

[worldly river]

Yeah that's what Waltz was referring to above

In the Immolant web lore where he slaughtered the Scarlet Court and Sagira died

[outer dragon]

Yeah my brain is cooked today

[safe galleon]

to be entirely fair, i imagine you'd want to learn new types of space magic eventually, especially when faced with the reality of an immortal existence and like, nothing all that better to do with it

once you hit a few decades or so i imagine you'd be like "wow, that electricity space magic sure does look appealing, i've been using the purple gravity space magic for 50 years and it's getting kinda boring (real)"

[ember storm]

Most guardians haven’t even mastered one subclass

[broken vigil]

So who’s destiny is it?

[real ingot]

Barry's

[broken vigil]

:0

[empty fern]

Barry Allen’s

[odd flicker]

So, is there a working OXA machine right now?

[empty fern]

Don’t think so? Also isn’t the only mention of that from 1 strike?

[odd flicker]

It's brought up in one of the collector's edition things.

And with veil containment name dropping MSund12 I wonder if that'll come back up soon.

[empty fern]

Ah ok

Probably no working ones

Since the first neomuna generation was years ago

[odd flicker]

Maybe we'll rebuild one?

It might be helpful in fighting the Witness since it archives dead alien societies.

[smoky rose]

The alternate acronym is OXTA

Which is an anagram for Taox

And given that the oldest myth in the OXTA is the hive origin story and the entire thing is a catalogue of the fall of civilizations

Appears to be that OXA is a computerized version of Taox

It’s not a type of machine

It’s a single universal black box of civilizations

[odd flicker]

Wasn't it destroyed and then recreated though? I'm pretty sure it's referred to as a machine.

[odd flicker]

This is what I mean though, yeah, might have something we could use against the witness.

Would've been a way cooler way to find out about his origin story if that's the root we go down, but whatever.

[fresh zephyr]

Anyone else noticed that in Deep Dives, Saladin calls Savathûn Sabathûn? With a B?? Is it his accent or did Bungo do this on purpose?
It’s just a bit funny. : D

[trim grotto]

I can't day I noticed it. It wouldn't be purposeful.

[ruby pivot]

i havent seen zavala using solar

[trim grotto]

He didn't have a very good relationship with the Sunbreakers.

[ruby pivot]

oohh the heck happened?

did he issued a command that messed up some relationship?

or was he hostile to them or vice versa to begin with?

[trim grotto]

Can't explain right now I'm afraid, I'm at work

[ruby pivot]

aight no prob

[ember storm]

be not afraid

from what i can remember, Osiris had an agreement with the sunbreakers, and since his exile from the city, they left too

the sunbreakers were mainly a mercenary group doing their own thing, not your standard titan order

[ruby pivot]

hmmm just got me thinking if we can form a weapon of light

[ember storm]

we can form an anything of light

that's what emotes are

[dawn escarp]

It would be broken in game, but it makes one wonder why nobody does this in the lore. Why use a heavy ammo sword when you could materialize one that doesn't need ammo.

[ember storm]

because constantly using light is horribly inefficient and draining?

[dawn escarp]

We already do that, supers, ability spam, etc.

[ember storm]

you misunderstand

when i say constantly i say constantly

that's why guardians have weapons at all

if you just have something formed out of light for more than a few minutes you're basically going to feel like you just took an exam and/or ran a marathon

also swords don't need ammo to begin with

[slim elk]

In Destiny
They do

[safe galleon]

so what made harnessing solar light something special for titans specifically, anyway? why are there no other covenants formed out of the practitioners of certain class/element combos?

was it just preference on the part of the sunbreakers, or?

[ember storm]

frankly the new subclasses you get in taken king aren’t particularly accurate in terms of getting a new one

really all it means is the guardian has the self agency of a house plant and will literally never try anything new unless specifically told or shown how

[safe galleon]

i see

[ember storm]

it’s happened so many times at this point I’ve just accepted it as is

I mean we didn’t even try touching up on our already existing subclasses until we were specifically told by the traveler itself to do so

twice

[safe galleon]

you'd think lorewise there'd be a bunch of different ways to practice the light within the class identities, and ours would just be the traditional ones. i think drifter is the only example of someone practicing a different way of the light in a combat sense, isnt he? or at least the only one explicitly mentioned not to fall into the categorization of classes

[ember storm]

I mean he just came from when classes didn’t exist and just never came out of that

people just naturally started falling into the categories of big, nerdy, and jumpy

there’s not really time to do that when you’re trying not to starve to death

[safe galleon]

true

[empty terrace]

so i just did the lightfall campaign again, can someone tell me, what the fuck is the veil

[little gorge]

tldr is basically traveller but darkness

[empty terrace]

oh

[wheat latch]

Is there lore on why specific enemies use a certain energy

Like captains or knights using arc

Servitors using void

And so on

[ember storm]

that's just what the weapon does

enemies just have different weapons that do different things

[wheat latch]

Shields as well tho

[ember storm]

there's no lore on that

[wheat latch]

Rip

Servitors and shanks are machines that the fallen make right?

[ember storm]

yes

servitors specifically are the only way they can get ether and survive now

[wheat latch]

Do they also make the walkers?

[ember storm]

yes

[wheat latch]

Are they just like really smart when it comes to building machines

[ember storm]

they're basically second only to the Witness' civlization in terms of how well they developed while the Traveler was with them, that we know of at least

majority of all fallen gear you see is made out of scrap and garbage

[wheat latch]

Have we really evolved from our time with the traveler? The tech in game doesn't seem super duper advanced

[ember storm]

there's a reason the golden age was called the golden age and then the period directly afterward was called the collapse

the main way the traveler cultivates civilizations is by bringing people together and basically giving them what they need to thrive

even with our shorter golden age compared to other races, we still got pretty far

guns that shoot black holes and the creation of rasputin for one

neomuna is essentially just what the whole solar system would be if the collapse never happened, or at least was a lot later on

it's worth noting the time period humanity found the traveler is meant to be right around modern day

[wheat latch]

Interesting

Are there any like rebel humans, against the traveler and against the guardians

[ember storm]

not particularly

i mean FWC and dead orbit had that whole insurrection thing but that was mainly just to put themselves in place of the vanguard, it's not like they wanted to get rid of guardians or anything

i guess there's clovis if you count him

but he's definitely not human

figuratively or literally

[wheat latch]

What happened to the factions, clans, cults, whatever you wanna call them

I think it was d1 you could like actually speak with them

[ember storm]

i mean i sorta just referenced it

fwc and dead orbit attempted an insurrection

lakshmi ended up dying after failing to commit literal genocide and the other factions fled the scene

[wheat latch]

Who dat

Didn't the fwc leader help us in the season with mara in the helm

[ember storm]

leader of Future War Cult

[ember storm]

no?

[wheat latch]

Oh lol

Who was it that like did the research in that season

Sorry my memory sucks

[ember storm]

also there's been a few seasons now

[tawdry mauve]

i doubt

[ember storm]

you'd have to be specific

[ember storm]

i mean maybe if it was like, pre-D1 mara i could see it

they would probably get along

[wheat latch]

There was something that involved looking into it with their mind but it was dangerous possibly and someone volunteered cuz they did it before

[ember storm]

i have no memory of anything fwc related aside from a little thing during Y1 and then splicer

i haven't heard of anything relating them to mara

[wheat latch]

Maybe I'm wrong about the Mara part

What was the fwc leader doing for us in splicer again?

[ember storm]

nothing

in fact she was actively trying to stoke racial tension

[wheat latch]

Oof

[ember storm]

again

[wheat latch]

I thought she died courageously

[ember storm]

aforementioned insurrection and genocide

[ember storm]

fuck no

she literally wanted to abuse vex tech to kill everyone in the house of light

[wheat latch]

Oh that's fun

[ember storm]

it ended up backfiring and she summoned the vex in the direct middle of the city which ended up killing a bunch of bystanders

[wheat latch]

Wait, the thingy that I was talking about I think it was the fwc leader, wasnt it looking into the future with some vex device

[ember storm]

that's what future war cult is based around

it's the main thing they do

future war cult

[wheat latch]

Yeah lol

[ember storm]

in fact it's what led lakshmi to try committing said genocide and insurrection

[wheat latch]

I thought she was attempting to help us at first

[ember storm]

she saw a future where the people who disagreed with her were dead or gone, and she was in power

her actions in splicer were never about helping people

after she vaguely "predicted" the red war (she didn't, it was just basic coincidence that anybody could guess at) she got an ego the size of the traveler and her followers paraded her around as some kind of deity

[wheat latch]

Is it bad to say I was a fwc fan in d1 lol

[ember storm]

i mean lots of their members always ended up going insane or got severely hurt by their basic practices, so

[wheat latch]

D:

Their logo is cool tho

Isnt that one fancy room in the hanger the old fwc area

[trim grotto]

In the Hanger? Yes. Lakshmi sat at the end of the room.

Arach Jalaal was down near where Xur sets up

[ember storm]

honestly i liked the D1 room more

but i guess the change was made to represent how far FWC was straying or whatever

[trim grotto]

Executor Hideo, because he has a superiority complex and is the representative of the fascist faction, set up on the opposite end of the Tower near the Bazaar.

[ember storm]

dead orbit never got a room in either games which is funny

[wheat latch]

Lol, very descriptive

[trim grotto]

Dead Orbit had a fleet, at least

[trim grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/rick-morty-bureaucrats-respect-gif-19157373

[ember storm]

in the end they were all spineless worms who couldn't bear being proven wrong by better futures that they hadn't accepted/predicted

"What, the fallen have helped us survive? that's not supposed to happen, earth is supposed to be doomed! let's overthrow the government"

i actually don't even really remember dead orbit's involvement in the coup

[trim grotto]

Complacency
They knew but didn't do anything about it either way

[ember storm]

i see

spineless worms indeed

[tawdry mauve]

major hypocrisy as well

their whole thing was that the vanguard and the traveller cannot protect the people of the last city

yet when it was their time to shine and protect the lives of the people of the last city

[ember storm]

also lol while i was just looking through things i found a reddit post asking "why was lakshmi hated for her views?"

[tawdry mauve]

they just turned their back and let lakshmi create a vex invasion in the city

[trim grotto]

Ironically, DO (despite being a leading faction) didn't really care for politics
They just wanted to leave Sol and take everyone with them

[ember storm]

like 90 comments, zero upvotes, and arguing in the comments for lakshmi's side

the jokes write themselves sometimes

[ember storm]

my question is what good did they ever provide for the consensus or the city in general

their only meaningful contributions to anything was just owning a bunch of ships when we needed to flee for the red war

[trim grotto]

Salvage, scrapworking, lending ships, evacuating during the Red War, essentially being organised versions of the Drifter and doomsday prepping

[ember storm]

i just feel like when your entire existence is thanks to the big white ball in the sky and the city protected below, why are you going to at all humor the people dressed in all black who just want to leave

[trim grotto]

Well, to be fair, Sol is the centre of the firestorm here.

[slim elk]

The question right really seems to be given how Lakshmi-2 showed her true colors in Splicer..

Why did she never expose Neomuna?

[tawdry mauve]

she didnt know

about neomuna

[slim elk]

Literally created on Neomuna

Esi directly had her disposed off on earth

[slim elk]

was the subject of a few weeks Veil logs

[tawdry mauve]

thats maya

altough lakshmi is an exo version of maya

the key word here is version

i dont think their memories are 1:1

[slim elk]

Exo naming conventions indicate that Lakshmi-2 was never rebooted (the typical reason behind exo memory loss)

And Esi claimed Lakshmi-2 had a few of Mayas memories

Considering Maya seemed good-natured before Veil exposure...
Lakshmi seems to take after Mayas personality after Veil exposure

[tawdry mauve]

well yeah i guess

she was left on earth by stargazer

i think she never said anything to just protect the neomuni

[slim elk]

And that doesn't mesh with the personality we see in Splicer.. power hungry genocidal asshole

If anything would actively try and expose Neomuna over dumping her on earth in the midst of the Dark Ahes

[tawdry mauve]

they didnt really "dump" her

[worldly river]

Correct, she had "some" of Maya's memories

[ember storm]

you mean the thing that happened after over 1000 years of development?

[earnest sandal]

calus fr must have had some fat ugly whores

[echo fjord]

💀

[meager belfry]

💀

[empty fern]

Anyways, cabal old traditions

[wheat latch]

is there a special name for the cabal axe?

[real ingot]

axe

[mystic fern]

Theory: they based the Traveler off of Pluto

[wheat latch]

it's actually themed after a mystery flavor gumball

[fiery copper]

A gladiator axe is called a Gladius

[ember storm]

severus

[fiery copper]

Well one of us is wrong and it sure as hell might be me

[wheat latch]

XD

[ember storm]

i mean the reason is because they're not axes

[wheat latch]

I'm sorry but it appears as if you are wrong...

https://www.destinypedia.com/Cabal_Severus

[fiery copper]

[wheat latch]

idk the credibility of that site

[fiery copper]

Me when I'm wrong in an internet argument

[ember storm]

you now owe me your soul

[fiery copper]

Destinypedia sucks for anything more than surface level information

Fortunately

This is surface level information

[wheat latch]

here, Gladius

[ember storm]

ishtar better https://www.ishtar-collective.net/items/gladius-77?highlight=gladius

[wheat latch]

how did u get that link so fast

[fiery copper]

True and real, walter zaroni

Ishtar better

[ember storm]

waltz

[fiery copper]

Walter Z.

Waltzmart

[wheat latch]

why doesnt the ishtar collective show up higher in the results for stuffs

[ember storm]

i'm just gonna be blunt and say that my name is waltz because i'm nb

[ember storm]

shitty google search engine

[fiery copper]

Oh shit I'm sorry

[ember storm]

prioritizes wiki pages more than anything else

especially monetized ones

[fiery copper]

Search engine results are prioritized (partially) by number of clicks

[ember storm]

so fandom goes first, as horrible as that hellsite is

destinypedia isn't on fandom but i just had to mention it

[wheat latch]

So what youre saying is that I am the problem

[real ingot]

fandom is shit

[fiery copper]

The more a result is clicked on, the more the search engine goes "oh this must be the right one"

[ember storm]

be the change you wish to see in the world

[fiery copper]

Yes you are honestly terrible and the source of all evil

[wheat latch]

at least i didnt provide false information on a destiny 2 discord

[fiery copper]

Also big sites pay a shitton of money for them to be at the very top

Facebook wants to be above the search results for buying books of faces off amazon

[ember storm]

you are very honorable for that

[fiery copper]

Honestly the lesser of two crimes

Plus I'm cool and everyone likes me so I can get away with it

[ember storm]

i think it was late 2020 or early 2021 we had a metric shit ton of lore newbies asking questions and then also arguing against answers with misinfo

dark times

[fiery copper]

Lol

[ember storm]

oh also

[wheat latch]

haha sounds like fun

[fiery copper]

Yeah I watched one single byf video, how could you tell?

[Proceeds to post the dumbest shit ever put into digital form]

[ember storm]

since we've since had multiple purges i've taken to saving the best takes i've seen in this chat

one moment

[wheat latch]

okay sure i'll let that slide

[fiery copper]

Used the wrong words, fixed now

[ember storm]

ah, waxpython

truly an icon

[fiery copper]

are they still here

@waxpython

Huh

Unfortunate

[ember storm]

oh no they got banned like three years ago

[fiery copper]

I cannot possibly see why moderators would get sick of them

[wheat latch]

lol, when did the dcv start

[fiery copper]

Beyond Light

2018?

Idk

[ember storm]

well it was announced before

so like 2019 i think

it would've "Started" once they made Y1 free

because they did that

[fiery copper]

Nah that shit was last year, I'm not getting old I'm not getting old I'm no-

[ember storm]

theere was another another version of D1's first mission implemented into D2 that served as the intro

then you'd just be shat out in the tower

[fiery copper]

LOL I REMEMBER THAT

[ember storm]

you'd have to intentionally go over to Amanda to pick up the y1 campaigns

not the quest kiosk

amanda

[fiery copper]

IT HAS NOT IMPROVED

[ember storm]

at least now there's an actual tutorial questline

the og new light had literally nothing

"here's a ship and there's the door!"

[fiery copper]

(Technically it has improved somewhat but destiny is 100% designed for player retention and not onboarding)

[wheat latch]

yeah, to start playing d2 and get in the loop of everything just go to youtube and watch like 3 hour long vids

i feel like a decent chunk of blueberries tho are from friends telling someone to join

[fiery copper]

"Destiny will not teach you how to play Destiny. But that guy will."

[wheat latch]

yes

[uneven canyon]

Whats the lore of arc, solar, and void

Mainly solar

[dim minnow]

Osiris had a bunch of audio logs going over all of them plus Stasis and Strand in Lightfall

I would recommend looking those up

[uneven canyon]

I completely forgot about that

I guess it’s a nice snippet but is there anything more concrete

So I’m pretty sure void and strand are parallels

Not so sure solar is for stasis like people say

I mean conditional finality is a thing

[dim minnow]

Void is more related to gravity while Strand is conciousness

Solar is like the Sun and Stasis is based on emotion

[mystic fern]

About how long would it take to go through all of destiny’s lore

Few hours?

[dim minnow]

Destiny lore gets pretty expansive

[trim grotto]

Hah

Hahaha

Haaah

No

[smoky rose]

If by a few hours you mean several weeks

For a basic understanding

Without diving into all the fuckery and potential tie ins with other games

The history of the hive alone, condensed, excluding all manipulation and higher level shenanigans from the worm gods, witness, and the rhulk, is multiple hours

[mystic fern]

For a basic understanding?

What about complex

[trim grotto]

I've been doing this for a couple of years and there's still things I don't know

[smoky rose]

Marathon has less lore than Destiny (though equally complex, if not more so) and people who have dedicated a very substantial amount of time to it for 20+ years are only just getting a basic understanding of it

[dim minnow]

this man doesn't know that Shaxx being manipulated by a relic was a thing since D1

[trim grotto]

That's true
I'm a bit rusty on some D1 era lore

Would you explain for me?

[dim minnow]

so you know how Taken King introduced artifacts?

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/items/whispering-sphere?highlight=shaxx

[trim grotto]

Ooh, how delightfully ominous.

[dim minnow]

D1 artifacts have interesting lore

[smoky rose]

It's how he contacts mara long distance

[dim minnow]

like a Warmind named Martel

we also got one of the hardest quotes in the lore:
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/items/scales-of-eao

and this thing:
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/items/the-damned-lute

[pearl basin]

who is the oldest gaurdian , by oldest i mean the gaurdian/ lightbearer who has been alive for the longest after they were ressurected

??

[dim minnow]

hard question to answer

we don't really know

[pearl basin]

i mean is there any lore ? regarding that

[dim minnow]

no

[pearl basin]

ah alright

[trim grotto]

We can't say for sure. But we can list some of the oldest known. Drifter. Saladin. Radagast. Radagast isn't alive any longer, mind you.

Saint-14. Pretty sure Osiris isn't as old as Saladin, but he's been around.

Shaxx has been around the block too.

[slim elk]

Saint-14 cheated a bit with the vex network.. times pretty "loose" in there

[trim grotto]

Not really what I meant

I was more referring to his being around since the Dark Ages, and early at that

[pearl basin]

does drifter belongs to a class ?

bcz it doesn't look like he is connected to any one class

[trim grotto]

No

He's classless.

[pearl basin]

more like hes just a lightbearer
i mean was

yea

[trim grotto]

Still is. He has Light.

[pearl basin]

didn't his ghost died ?

[trim grotto]

No. It was, however, forever changed.

[pearl basin]

how?

[trim grotto]

Drifter experimented on it, at his Ghosts request, in order to escape a planet of Light suppressing monsters.

It is likely how he accessed Stasis.

[pearl basin]

ohh

[trim grotto]

It has been mute since then.

[pearl basin]

oh yea i remmber , is that related to that aphleion lore ?

[trim grotto]

No.

[pearl basin]

oh

but i remember now him mentional those monsters

[trim grotto]

They're unrelated to the Aphelion, as far as we're aware.

[pearl basin]

oh

[dim minnow]

only relation is something mentioned in in-universe fanfiction

where Calus states that we go to that icy world to find knowledge on the Aphelion to use for our own benefit

but the aphelion were not on that world specifically

but since this info is from the Chronicon which is literal fanfiction Calus wrote, the exact validity of this is questionable at best

[trim grotto]

Can't verify it if it's deleted

[ancient elk]

This may have been a question already answered in the witch queen story, but how is savathuns throne world still existing even after we killed her?

[real ingot]

likely the Wellspring

it seems to be sustained with light

[ancient elk]

What exactly is the wellsprings purpose?

[real ingot]

Block off the sunken pyramid

keep Rhulk imprisoned and the TW stable is what I believe

her death weakened it

meaning Rhulk was freed

[ancient elk]

Ah, gotcha

So the wellspring was essentially a lock on a prison gate

That needed constant maintenance

[ember storm]

it's also the main thing supplying the lucent brood with light

just having ghosts isn't enough for what they're regularly doing

[jolly vector]

damn I just found out every basic strikes on release was before ghaul's death

the mfs going on those strikes were balling

[trim grotto]

Canonically, the Red War lasted months.

We launched a lot of counter-offensives.

[ember storm]

I think most are just ambiguous whether or not they’re before/after

like inverted spire isn’t “Ghaul ordered this crew to do this” nor “the red legion are scrambling in the wake of Ghaul’s defeat”

they’re just there and they’re just doing that

[safe galleon]

the cabal are allowed to just vibe, as a treat

[wheat latch]

What's the lore behind the presage mission, I forgot

[slim elk]

Very mimimum Savathuns Song was after the Red War via its very concept

Can't drain light from guardians.. when there was no light to drain

[ember storm]

we get an sos from Katabasis, a shadow of Calus to help rescue him from a scorn-infested ship

basically since Arrivals came and went, and the witness didn’t give Calus what he wanted (due to misinformation or him just not understanding it) he wanted to force contact and tried using a modified crown of sorrow and the scorn to do it

contact gets made, and Calus is whisked away, leaving the ship without any leader and also infested with scorn and darkness

suffice to say nobody got out alive

we got Katabasis’ cool rifle out of it tho

[wheat latch]

Oh so katabasis was the guardian that died there?

[ember storm]

yep

and we didn’t retrieve his corpse

[slim elk]

Guardians have a bad habit of that lol

Nothing really stopped us grabbing Fikruls corpse and throwing it into a crucible map.

[ember storm]

fikrul’s corpse doesn’t matter

his way of resurrection is unique and basically unstoppable

[wheat latch]

Stole a dead man's gun and then paid no respect to them

[ember storm]

exactly

I’ve seen people try defending it when the ingame prompt literally says “steal”

[wheat latch]

XD

It's not even named like around him, just "dead man"

Does the lore tab at least say something about him

[ember storm]

it’s him talking with another guardian wondering if you’re really the same when a ghost revives you each time

Katabasis has an entire lore book about him

[wheat latch]

That seems like an interesting conversation

[little gorge]

it's his tale tho so that's something

[slim elk]

Heck
Katabasis gun isn't the first time we pulled something like that
We also yanked Outbreak from the cryptarch vaults instead of quarantineing it again

[ember storm]

I mean yeah the gun’s name and description are meant to be ironic compared to Katabasis himself

[ember storm]

why would it need quarantining

[slim elk]

Active SIVA replication

[ember storm]

it was our creation and it was specifically designed to not be exploitable like an ordinary SIVA vault

it’s permanently fused to the weapon mechanism

the nanites have one directive and can’t do anything else

what you see is what you get

Eramis didn’t try stealing it to use SIVA

she just wanted a trophy to rally ex-devils under

which she later accomplished anyway through salvation

[slim elk]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/outbreak-perfected

he's planning to wear Devils colors to interrupt a Devils heist to reclaim SIVA. And instead of leaning on us, his good Guardian friends, he's banking on some stranger—"

[wheat latch]

What is SIVA? I wasn't playing during it's time in the spotlight, all I know is tiny robots

[ember storm]

nanobots

[wheat latch]

Is that it, nothing more to it lol

[ember storm]

the stuff cloudstriders use is way more advanced and potentially dangerous

[slim elk]

Anyway Waltz
If it wasn't quarantined.. then why did the Cryptarchs have it locked up in their vaults without our permission?

[ember storm]

SIVA just got a bad wrap because it was misused

[ember storm]

are you really asking me if I trust Rahool with anything?

[trim grotto]

The main intention was as a colony construction tool
Indeed, it built Neomuna

However, it was rarely used for that, in the end

[ember storm]

we just weren’t there when the tower was attacked so we weren’t there to handle our own weapons

people just took and saved what they could

[wheat latch]

Oh, so it's more of a tool but depending on the use it can be a weapon?

[ember storm]

like Shaxx stealing our sword we made from Oryx’s and never giving it back

[trim grotto]

actually i can't be bothered typing this
Mael Voice incoming

[slim elk]

Think of it like a hammer
Intended peaceful tool.. but all too easily harnessed to destructive ends

[wheat latch]

So like the thing the kid invented in big hero 6 lul

[slim elk]

Idea behind SIVA was a quick nanomachine colony starter. It would replicate and build buildings and habitats

But most frequent use we seen it with is being weaponized and cybernetic augmentation

[trim grotto]

hopefully this embeds correctly

[slim elk]

Let alone the potential for the classic "Grey goo" scenario

[ember storm]

Willa gets told she’s a nerd and is never heard from again

very important

[trim grotto]

Oh and one more thing
Willa Bray, who created it (Clovis's granddaughter) also wanted to use it to enhance the human body. There were a variety of largely unsuccessful experiments. If she had succeeded, it'd have been an alternative immortality competing with Clovis's Exo program.

[slim elk]

Neomuna derived all all their nanotech from SIVA (confirmed in a Veil log)

If anyone cracked that immortality method, would be over there

[ember storm]

I mean the existence of cloudstriders sort of suggests otherwise

[wheat latch]

Ty, that would have been a lot to type lol

[trim grotto]

Ah, it is implied, yes. I see that.

[slim elk]

Thus why i said if anyone had cracked it

[wheat latch]

So why is it potentially dangerous for cloud striders to have it? Just more the existence of a replicating nanobot like SIVA being the threat?

[ember storm]

No I mean cloudstriders have it in them and it is actively killing them

[wheat latch]

Oh

[trim grotto]

I believe the other primary concern is that there are analogies to be drawn between SIVA and Radiolaria, which is cited as a likely inspiration. If the Vex were to ever take control of this grey-goo, multi-hundred Guardian killing, terrain-shaping nanotech, well...

But yes, it is the reason why Cloudstriders only live for a maximum of ten years. Their bodies can't handle the augments.

[wheat latch]

What's radiolaria

[slim elk]

The Vex

[ember storm]

vex milk

it’s what the vex are

although the metal is still physically apart of them and not any ordinary shell

[trim grotto]

In the most literal sense, the Vex. Held within Vex Mind Fluid, the... Vex Milk.

[wheat latch]

Are they aware of the cost? They just choose to pay it to protect their people

[trim grotto]

Yes.

[ember storm]

I mean they’ve gone through however many generations of cloudstriders now and Rohan is like the only one to be killed in active duty, iirc

[trim grotto]

I believe so yes

[ember storm]

I think nimbus said something about the tradition of crowning another cloudstrider always involving the old one who’s retiring

[wheat latch]

So the cloudstriders haven't been around as long as I thought then, I was under the impression their modifications extended their life (idk why, prolly just a quick assumption when I first saw them) based off the number of graves/monuments/whatever those are near nimbus' fast travel location

[ember storm]

they’ve definitely been around a long time

[trim grotto]

There have been dozens, perhaps hundreds, of Cloudstriders. But individually, ten years per.

[ember storm]

I mean count every cloudstrider memorial there and multiply by ten

that’s probably not even the total amount

I guess there’s other specifics to the math but I don’t want to deal with that

[wheat latch]

Ohh so it's not like a small army of them just a few at a time?

[ember storm]

they’ve been around long enough to think guardians were still called warlords

[ember storm]

it’s only two at a time

[wheat latch]

Jeez, my cludstrider knowledge is fudged

[trim grotto]

This is why we only ever saw Rohan and Nimbus
And why Nimbus is the only current Cloudstrider

[ember storm]

but we’ve still got capybara hour

[wheat latch]

What

Like the animal capybara

[ember storm]

neomuna tv program for children that’s definitely not filled with a healthy dose of propaganda and manipulation

[wheat latch]

Oh that took a turn lol

[slim elk]

So to put this into perspective
Cloudstriders had a few of them around before the Fallen hit earth post collapse

[ember storm]

also I just think that news caster Juice Cauliflower is lame

[slim elk]

We know this because of Stargazers mission to "scout" earth

Which in reality was a cover to purge any data that could expose Neomunas position and dispose of Lakshmi on earth under Esi orders

[wheat latch]

What if we combined cloudstriders modifications with a guardian, would we be able to counter the negative effects? Or is that too theoretical lol

[ember storm]

there’s no reason

[slim elk]

Wait till a Ghost breaks into the memorial hall lol

[trim grotto]

Probably
Real question is if a Ghost can rez a Cloudstrider

[ember storm]

guardians are basically just better in every way

[trim grotto]

Well
We're shorter

And don't have nanomachines

[ember storm]

I’m shorter

[wheat latch]

And don't look as cool

Wait, guardians don't look as cool, you look cool waltz

Lol

Unfortunate timing, didn't mean to sound like I was insulting you

[trim grotto]

i was

waltz doesn't look cool and is short

[wheat latch]

Dang

[ember storm]

you keep that up and I’ll start another immortal snail discourse

[wheat latch]

I'm intrigued

[ember storm]

I made people in this chat genuinely upset at the hypothetical of the guardian vs immortal snail

I don’t think mael was involved

[trim grotto]

I was not

[ember storm]

what’s your take on it

[slim elk]

Admittedly
We might get more vex stuff soon
Latest Veil log dropped a name we haven't heard from in a long time

MSund12

[ember storm]

Gary?

oh

I mean

[wheat latch]

Like from SpongeBob?

[ember storm]

I’m not really clambering to see what one specific Maya copy was up to

[wheat latch]

Or is that not related to immortal snails lmao

[ember storm]

it’s what people used to call Ghaul

the immortal snail is above having a normal moniker

[slim elk]

That's the part where have to see what she was looking into
Last we saw that copy was looking into OXA

[ember storm]

so

it’s not in my backyard

[slim elk]

Been a theory for a while that OXTA be related to Taox (even the anagram)

Unusual for Bungie to drop something random like that with Savathun scheduled to be revived next season

(I do grant they may make up some nonsense about a ritual or something needed to revive Savathun to fill in a season...)

[ember storm]

it’s me

I am ritual

[slim elk]

If they don't though and keep the story moving.. I think next season will involve hijacking vex resources to help open the portal

Between Asher simulating the Veil in the network and now random Ishtar copies suddenly name dropped

If Bungies keep to a theme of planets returning.. probably be Mercury next up. Infinite Forest and Vance

Maybe following up on the "notes" even Mara dissuaded Vance from investigating

[wheat latch]

Hi, Ritual

[wheat latch]

Wut, when was this shown or hinted at?

[velvet flax]

Ik it's a pvp map but making the new one be 'compiling the Infinite Forest' suggests it could make a return at some point

And the sotg article referring to the Vex Network being important throughout the year

[smoky rose]

Bungie said that they were tying seasons together very tightly this year

Disjunction had nothing to do with the season it released in

Plus if we used the vex to get through the portal we’d know how to get through the portal aka we’d have already spoken to savathun

There’s a disconnect in your timeline

[mystic fern]

I just finished the into the depths missions

So basically

A civilization had the traveler

Then they went into the veil

And joined the veil with the traveler

Which the traveler didn’t like

So it left

And they became the witness

?

[tawdry mauve]

"Then they went into the veil
And joined the veil with the traveler
Which the traveler didn’t like"

no..

they found the veil just like they found the traveller

they "attempted" to link them together like they did at the end of lightfall

and they failed

[mystic fern]

Okay but how did a race of normal beings harness the Darkness in such a manner that became an omnipotent being

I don’t get that

Why can’t we just do that with the Light

Or is it unethical or something

Because hypothetically we should be able to do the same right

[tawdry mauve]

the witness's race has the traveller for eons

litterally

it spent more time with them than any other civilization combined

[mystic fern]

But what does that have to do with how they all coalesced into the Witness

They used the Darkness not the Light for that

[tawdry mauve]

you dont think that having the traveller bolster your civilizations technology for such a long time would somehow have an effect on them using darkness?

our guardian had no major issues immediately adapting to darkness after having the light for a long time

[mystic fern]

Do yk why the Traveler rejected the Veil?

[tawdry mauve]

yes

[mystic fern]

Cause tbh idrk what the Veil even is

[tawdry mauve]

look at it know

the veil is basically the darkness traveller

where the traveller creates the physical

the veil creates the psychological

its sentience manifest

[slim elk]

We might be seeing it replicated in Neomuna. The Cloudark

In verse osrisis directly compared what's going on in Neomuna to the Witness origin

[mystic fern]

Ah ok

[final geyser]

if a ghost ressurected someone who has a major injury like blind or missing limb, could the ghost repair that?

like if a blind person was risen could a ghost repair their eyes

[smoky rose]

The Light is physical

The dark is consciousness and the mind

You can link minds with the dark, not the light

[ember storm]

good lore

[mystic fern]

But if the Traveler is pure Light and the Witness is pure Darkness I don’t see how this chapter will end without them both just blasting each other into oblivion

[smoky rose]

The Veil is pure darkness

The Witness is someone who got bored

[tawdry mauve]

I feel silly

i was so happy i missclicked 🤭

[analog torrent]

I found a comic where a Hunter is playing Spin The Knife with other guardians, and whoever the knife lands on has to fight to the death with the spinner. It was captioned with a broken link. Is this a reference to any sort of lore or just fanon?

[wind belfry]

hunter activities

[dim minnow]

never heard of it in lore

but it does seem like something that Hunters do for fun

[dull raft]

100% just hunters being hunters

[heady gyro]

Just hunter things, have a link?

[analog torrent]

https://www.tumblr.com/datmoongamer/725307326836424704/nagunkgunk-hunters-are-the-least-okay-guardians?source=share

[heady gyro]

Hell yeah

Also, I initially thought the veil was following its namesake and was the veil between light and dark, like seperating the two from directly interacting, like using gloves to handle and move around a toxic substance, but never directly effecting either party

[devout nimbus]

Can anyone summarise what we found in veil containment?

The message logs

[real ingot]

still ongoing

however atm

Lakshmi is an exo version of Maya created using the veil that Bluejay brought to Earth is what is most notable atm

[dim minnow]

Stargazer, not Bluejay

[real ingot]

my apologies

[devout nimbus]

Ah I see

So Maya survived

[dim minnow]

no, she didn't

and her wife sent Lakshmi with Stargazer because she couldn't stand the sight of her

also the Veil is a cosmic collective conciousness

let's see

the Vex are the reason Neomuna is hidden

the Vex want the Veil so they can do more advanced simulations

[devout nimbus]

Like the witness?

[slim elk]

Turns out that Esi was behind the whole conspiracy-propaganda mission as well

[devout nimbus]

Yeah makes sense

[dim minnow]

the Witness is merely an entire species merged into one being

[devout nimbus]

Because they want the veil?

[dim minnow]

yes

[slim elk]

That mission Stargazer went on? Never intended to actually reestablish contact with Earth

[devout nimbus]

Mmh I remember that

[dim minnow]

the whole point was so that we would not know about Neomuna

[slim elk]

They only did it because Rasputin found them and Esi wanted the data erased

[dim minnow]

for the opposite reason we expected

not to keep Neomuna safe from us, but to keep us safe from neomuna

since Chioma sees the Veil as something extremely dangerous

[devout nimbus]

So was the veil always a collective conciousness

Is that just its nature?

[real ingot]

pretty much

we have nothing saying otherwise

[dim minnow]

also note how it is pretty much confirmed that the Veil is a Dark counterpart to the Traveler

[devout nimbus]

I assume we still don't know much?

[dim minnow]

well we know a hell of a lot more than we did post Lightfall

[slim elk]

I do find it extremely bemusing that Esi wanted the Veil kept secret because she didn't trust it to be used responsibly....

[real ingot]

As much as we can know about a cosmic god-like entity

[slim elk]

And Neomuna made paracausal VR chat from it

[dim minnow]

I also think she believes that the Veil is outright dangerous

[devout nimbus]

Who was Esi

I kinda forgot

[real ingot]

We still aren't sure of the modern Cloudark's creation

[dim minnow]

Maya Sundaresh's wife

[devout nimbus]

Ah I see

[dim minnow]

been in lore since D1

[real ingot]

Remember they have a prototype in the containment

[slim elk]

We do. It's Bluejay

Cloudstrider that kept pushing for it

[real ingot]

Yeah we know he started shit back up

[dim minnow]

fun fact, Chioma is canonically a gymbro

[real ingot]

we aren't sure of what the process was exactly

[dim minnow]

strong enough to life the Tractor Cannon because she constantly practices deadlifts

[devout nimbus]

I'm sure jello would find that funny

[dim minnow]

funny timing how Maeve's Stash in the Cosmodrome gives you Tractor Cannon and we have audio logs from Chioma added in this season

[slim elk]

Anyway..
Seems Esi inadvertently screwed the situation in her efforts to keep Neomuna ignorant and complacent on the Veil..
We have to use it to follow the Witness by all accounts

[dim minnow]

in her defense, Maya went completely bonkers

ironic isn't it

[devout nimbus]

Was that because of Clovis?

[dim minnow]

Clovis Bray's story ended with a redemption and Maya's ended in her downfall

[dim minnow]

because of the Veil, it had a bad effect on her

[slim elk]

Personally..
Think it should have been reverse with Mayas Lakshmi-2 taking over

[devout nimbus]

Ah

[dim minnow]

maybe manipulation by the Witness (maybe the veil itself is corruptive)

[slim elk]

We still have no explanation why Lakshmi-2 didn't expose Neomuna.. despite having every reason to (in her view)

[real ingot]

Makes me feel like we may have another person go insane from it

[dim minnow]

let's see, when the Witness encountered the Veil, it wanted to link it with the Traveler to gain control over reality
when Maya encountered the Veil, she went crazy

[slim elk]

And now the entirety of Neomunas population is hardwired into the Veil via Cloudark

https://tenor.com/view/jacksparrow-jack_sparrow-captainjacksparrow-captainjack-captain_jack-gif-22081901

[dim minnow]

makes me wonder if Chioma had any say

she was likely dead by then, but I guess something went wrong with her propaganda at that point

[slim elk]

We know Esi went deleting any reference she could and covered up Lakshmi-2

[real ingot]

I think it was more of a "forget this ever happened"

[dim minnow]

Bluejay seemed like the kind of bloke to become a terrorist if the Cloudstrider gig didn't work out

[slim elk]

Even the whole "We tried to reconnect with Earth" was BS

Just a cover to delete data that could expose them

[final geyser]

i'm not sure clovis's story is counted as a redemption

[real ingot]

Banshee is the original Clovis

or what became of him

[final geyser]

it's a case of nature vs nurture tho

Banshee-2 was clovis, but he's intrinsically not a horrible person

he made the right choices off the bat

[ember storm]

banshee only exists because of clovis reflecting on his life and his mistakes

he fully intended on his exo self on being a second chance

[final geyser]

he also set things up so he could manipulate banshee-2 into being another clovis bray

[ember storm]

if you ask me, it's why the ai exists as it does

[final geyser]

the ai was supposed to exist to manipulate Clovis-2 (or is it Clovis-1?)

i'm of the understanding that "-1" exos are so rare even as guardians because the -1 exo is the one that still has human memories, thus being a massive DER liability

therefore they're almost immediately reset into -2

[ember storm]

iteration 0 is the human

[final geyser]

i understand that

i mean i'm confused on why iteration 1 exos are so insanely rare? as far as we know Ada-1 is the only iteration 1 exo alive and its cuz shes a crypt exo and was never reset

[ember storm]

honestly, it can be argued the ai existed as it did to actually ensure exo clovis wouldn't turn out that way

[dim minnow]

Clovis made extensive use of reboots on pretty much every exo

reboots were also useful is detering DER

[final geyser]

did you play season 19 by chance

[ember storm]

i know what you're going to bring up

[final geyser]

as far as i can tell reboots had 3 main purposes
1: an exo was damaged beyond repair
2: DER
3: an exo had memories of things that it shouldn't (ie fucked up experiments, things that could damage clovis' reputation, etc)

[dim minnow]

4. Clovis was annoyed at them asking questions

[final geyser]

and then there's poor echo

isn't echo like Echo-1200?

[ember storm]

nobody cares about echo

[dim minnow]

Echo got hit with the strongest attack in the lore

[devout nimbus]

1200?

Damn

[dim minnow]

two golden gun shots that traveled for light years

[devout nimbus]

What did bro do

[real ingot]

pretty sure we've seen shit in the 2000's

[final geyser]

i remember hearing about an extremely fucked up exo due to going through literal thousands of resets

i think it was echo

[dim minnow]

he was stuck on an abandoned Clovis Bray facility orbiting Uranus

grew to revere the Brays (Ana specifically)

[final geyser]

also the lore books make it very clear that the clovis ai was an awful person who existed to continue to control his legacy

[dim minnow]

so when Ana Bray showed up on the station, Echo used some advanced tech to face off against her

he actually held his own very well, even managed to get a kill on her

[devout nimbus]

If he revered them why did he kill her

[dim minnow]

even when Ana had assistance from Rasputin

[dim minnow]

I say revere, but I also wanted to say fear

[final geyser]

i don't consider clovis' story to end in redemption because Banshee-44 is not clovis, rather what clovis could've been

[dim minnow]

or despise

a combination of the three

[devout nimbus]

Aren't those antonyms

[ember storm]

i'm not calling it redemption

[devout nimbus]

Well I guess not

[dim minnow]

read the Lament lore tab

[ember storm]

really you can bring up every bad thing clovis ever did, but the fact he actually acknowledged them as mistakes he's meant to make up for as one of the last conscious things he did speaks volumes

[dim minnow]

eh

[ember storm]

keep in mind the ai is just a snapshot copy of what Clovis' mindset was at the time

[final geyser]

reverent hatred is something i could see existing

[ember storm]

it's designed to not change

[final geyser]

and reverence and fear commonly coexist

[devout nimbus]

Yeah like a slave

[real ingot]

still surprised me we got Legacy's Lament and Dark Futre in the same expansion

[devout nimbus]

Would feel that

[ember storm]

cause dark future sucks?

[real ingot]

understatement

[dim minnow]

anyways, the main reason Ana was able to beat him was because her Ghost dematerialised itself into pure light which overcharged her abilities

[ember storm]

yeah me too

[devout nimbus]

Damn

That sounds cool

[ember storm]

the only good part about it is the idea of zavala looking like kratos

[dim minnow]

to the point where Echo's body melted on contact

and as I stated, Ana proceeded to shoot him with two Golden Gun shots that traveled for Light years

[real ingot]

Destiny single player game with Zavala just beating the shit out of legendary guardians

[final geyser]

ana's ghost is fucking nuts

i love the lil guy

[ember storm]

she's one of the fat ghosts

[dim minnow]

I wish we could get Jinju's shell

we got Sagira's shell, but not hers

[ember storm]

cause it's boring

[dim minnow]

I also really want Gepetto's shell

[final geyser]

ive never seen jinju

[dim minnow]

it would still be cool to have a ghost shell of another legendary guardian

[final geyser]

also it's still my headcanon that dark futures are just calus' fanfic

[ember storm]

why would you need headcanon when you have immortal snail

[final geyser]

love her

[ember storm]

you know it's funny how she actually has roles in comics

meanwhile sundance has nothing

not even a real line of dialogue

[devout nimbus]

Fat ghosts?

[ember storm]

just Shiro repeating what Cayde said she said once

[ember storm]

like glint

[devout nimbus]

Uh-

[ember storm]

they're not perfect circles

they're fat

[devout nimbus]

Oh I see

[ember storm]

rectangular center and eye

[devout nimbus]

Any reason for that?

[ember storm]

and the big round shell

[ember storm]

they're born fat

[outer dragon]

Best ghost shell is Bouy Trap

Squeeky shark

[dim minnow]

Sugary Shell is pretty good though

so is Almost Mighty

[safe galleon]

there are destiny 2 comics?

[fiery copper]

A few made for d2y1

[ember storm]

and forsaken

[dim minnow]

there were two made for Osiris' exile from the Last City, three made for Ana Bray discovering the Warmind facility on Mars, two for Cayde-6 capturing the Scorn Barons, and there were two smaller ones with one about a Sweeper Bot during the Red War and one on Osiris having visions

[empty fern]

So

I said it once and I’ll say it again, Msund12, COULD mean Nessus season with cabal or vex

Current Veil log

[real ingot]

possibly

OXA and MSUND could relate to what we need Sav for if they go in that direction

[wind glen]

Hello lore people

Could anyone tell me the meaning of this symbol

On the Insight Rover chest piece

[dim minnow]

don't think I've ever seen that one before

reminds me of some Season of the Hunt triumphs though

[wind glen]

Interesting

I looked at it and really thought it had to do with FWC but couldn't find anything on it

[dim minnow]

I bet the symbol is on some random emblem

[smoky rose]

Again are we just completely ignoring the fact that Bungie has repeatedly stated how connected seasons this year are and Ahsa literally said THE WITCH QUEEN MUST RISE followed by Zavala saying Eris and Ikora will get it handled

Like

Come on people

Not next season

And the last page of the lore book showing the witness telling Xivu to go after Sav

I could see it in Season 23 at bare minimum

[green cobalt]

it's on the clandestine maneuvers cloak as well

[smoky rose]

The Hidden?

[green cobalt]

i fear msund12 is just setting up post final shape

[smoky rose]

Similar to what the hidden have on their chests

[green cobalt]

very vaguely

[smoky rose]

Could be an early design before they were like

hmmm

what must they look like in cutscene

[dim minnow]

looks vaguely Cabal-like

[green cobalt]

the flavor text for the set and cloak is all cryptic

and by cryptic i mean just random and vague

[ember storm]

classic destiny

[wheat latch]

Alright time for more dumb questions from me

How did Zavala, Ikora, and Cayde become their respective vanguard

[velvet flax]

Zavala took over after Saint disappeared into the Infinite Forest I think

Ikora took over when Osiris was banished

And Cayde after Andal Brask was killed by Taniks

[wheat latch]

Are they elected or did they just say "I'm the vanguard now"

[velvet flax]

Cayde because he 'killed' Taniks after Andal died

Ikora was considered the natural choice after Osiris as she was his student

Idk about Zavala

[fiery copper]

I think there's a lore tab about the speaker exiling osiris and immediately going "zavala is the new vanguard, raise your hands if you agree"

[devout nimbus]

Why does the moon look like this

Crota?

[wheat latch]

Well Zavala is, Zavala

[wheat latch]

Interesting, "I volunteer Zavala as tribute"

[fiery copper]

Wait no it was a comic panel from the graphic novel miniseries

[wheat latch]

Smh

[trim grotto]

Mostly Crota, yes. And the Luna Pyramid crashing into the surface. And the Hidden Swarm breaking out to make the Scarlet Keep.

But mostly Crota.

[fiery copper]

Yeah crota is what we call "a genuine douchebag fucker-upper"

[tawdry mauve]

so how recoverable is the moon

like lets say post light and fall saga, could we ever clear out all the hive

burrowing in the moons crust

[fiery copper]

How recoverable is aplanet sized termite mound

[tawdry mauve]

idk depends

also

[wheat latch]

Have all warlocks nova bomb it at once, ez

[tawdry mauve]

planet sized?

[fiery copper]

But all the termites have guns and can 1v1 a navy seal

[tawdry mauve]

its a moon

its moon sized

:/

[fiery copper]

Bigger than pluto

[tawdry mauve]

its still a moon

[fiery copper]

6x

[tawdry mauve]

and pluto is not a capital P planet

its a dwarf planet

[fiery copper]

Planet SIZED

[tawdry mauve]

which can be smaller than moons

[fiery copper]

The moon is indeed
A moon

[tawdry mauve]

ITS NOT THE SIZE OF A PLANET

yes

our moon is just called the moon

unlike the star in the center of our system we dont have a name for it

[wheat latch]

Mfw lore discussion becomes astrology class

[tawdry mauve]

and no, no one is calling it "luna"

[fiery copper]

Lua

[tawdry mauve]

calling our moon luna is just as sane as calling earth "tera"

[fiery copper]

[tawdry mauve]

makes me wince

[fiery copper]

That's HOLY TERRA to you

[low gyro]

I mean it's useful if you are talking about multiple moons

[tawdry mauve]

thats why you say "the moon" when refering to our moon

because it is "the moon"

thats the name

[wheat latch]

Is the traveler effectively just a really small moon now

[fiery copper]

"The moon"
"Which one"
"THE moon"
"Dude there are like 20 of them playable ingame at this exact moment"

[tawdry mauve]

other planets moons have actual names

[fiery copper]

That's no moon
That's a space god

[low gyro]

Does it orbit a planet

[tawdry mauve]

true

if it doesnt orbit a planet its closer to a centurion

[fiery copper]

Yes, at the same speed of the planet's rotation

[wheat latch]

Afaik it stays directly above the last city

[fiery copper]

So does ours
Luna

[tawdry mauve]

it doesnt

and thats not a name

its name is "the moon"

[wheat latch]

Like those guys that float and shoot fire?

[low gyro]

Lol that's kind of pedantic for no reason imo

[tawdry mauve]

yes it is pendantic

[tawdry mauve]

thats just moon in different languages

when speaking english which we are doing right now

its just moon

[wheat latch]

I think I'll call it Selene from now on

[tawdry mauve]

yeah we can speak russian and call it месец if we wanted to

[fiery copper]

99% of science is Latin tf you mean

[tawdry mauve]

no

and even if that were true

[low gyro]

Nah not 99

[tawdry mauve]

this is the 1% where is not

lmfao

[low gyro]

A lot of Greek terms as well

[tawdry mauve]

depends on what part of "science" you refer to

because science isnt just 1 thing

[fiery copper]

99% is comedic exaggeration, just like calling the moon planet sized

[tawdry mauve]

no back pedaling

[fiery copper]

Bruh

[low gyro]

The moon is planet sized? Erm

[fiery copper]

Have we ever spoken before

[tawdry mauve]

right lmao?

[fiery copper]

This is how I talk

[fiery copper]

Pluto is 1/6 the mass

[tawdry mauve]

pluto is not a planet

its a dwarf planet

[fiery copper]

So before 2008 it was scientifically planet sized

[tawdry mauve]

it wasnt

because even then the rules didnt calsify it as a planet

it was just called that because it was the norm for ages

[low gyro]

Pluto no longer a planet tho

[wheat latch]

This popcorn is delicious

[fiery copper]

Mercury is only slightly bigger than the moon apparently

[tawdry mauve]

because its a planet

and not a moon

[low gyro]

And other planets have 5 digit km in diameter

[fiery copper]

4800km vs 3900km

[low gyro]

Oh nevermind I forgot that

[fiery copper]

Which is

A lot

But like

[tawdry mauve]

moons are defined by their size relative to the planet they orbit

[fiery copper]

It's not unreasonable to call the moon planet sized

[tawdry mauve]

our moon can never be "planet" sized because its smaller than earth

[fiery copper]

Bro I am not calling the moon a planet

[tawdry mauve]

i never said you did ?

[fiery copper]

That is stupid and you should feel bad for saying that

[tawdry mauve]

?

so you think the opposite?

[fiery copper]

The moon is the size of A planet

[tawdry mauve]

you think the moon can be a planet

[fiery copper]

So therefore it is planet sized

[tawdry mauve]

not how that works

planet doesnt even sound like a real word anymore

[fiery copper]

If it didn't orbit the earth it would still be big enough to be a planet

I'm talking about it's size unrelated to the earth

[tawdry mauve]

if it didnt orbit the earth maybe we would never be having this conversation

and thats a hypothetical i would greatly like to explore

in reality

:)

[wheat latch]

technically this ain't true, the definition is just that it orbits another object 🤓

[fiery copper]

Yeah because it would be a planet so it would be stupid to NOT call it planet sized

[tawdry mauve]

well the reason it orbits another object its because its smaller than that object

if our moon was larger than our earth, our earth would orbit it

[wheat latch]

Correct

[tawdry mauve]

and we would be the moon

[low gyro]

The Moon is a planetary-mass object quote from Wikipedia lol

[tawdry mauve]

so its basically the same thing

[fiery copper]

This lowered my blood pressure to reasonable levels, thank you

[tawdry mauve]

except planetary-mass does not mean what you clearly think it means

lol

[wheat latch]

Wikipedia is the most non credible source you could have gotten info from tbf

[tawdry mauve]

eh

[low gyro]

Yeah I saw this coming nevermind

[tawdry mauve]

its credible

you just gotta confirm the sources it comes from

which are always listed at the bottom

[wheat latch]

I'm not saying it's wrong but like, we could just go and change that rn lol

[fiery copper]

It's reasonable to conflate mass and size when talking about space

Because outside of black holes and the like, they are generally correlated*

[tawdry mauve]

"The moon falls short of planet-sized categorization due to its diminutive size, limited mass, feeble gravitational influence, absence of a significant atmosphere, and an origin closely linked to Earth's history rather than a distinct planetary formation process. These defining characteristics set it apart from the criteria that define planets, reinforcing its classification as a moon rather than a planet-sized entity."

there we go

[fiery copper]

"Planet-sized" is a scientific classification, I'm talking about the literal size

[wheat latch]

A styrofoam ball the size of the sun has less mass than a lead ball the size of the moon, I think it does matter

[tawdry mauve]

its funny but its true

[fiery copper]

Is the moon made of styrofoam

[wheat latch]

Sorry Selene, not the moon

[wheat latch]

Yeah, I got it from Wikipedia

Lmao sorry

[low gyro]

Yeah you're right lol. Planetary-mass object is a broader term than planet

[fiery copper]

Take my argument and replace "planet sized" with "the size of a planet"

Which it objectively is

[tawdry mauve]

and its still smaller than the smallest planet in the system

so your point still makes no sense

[fiery copper]

Ok

The solar system is not the only place with planets

[wheat latch]

I hope y'all are just having a fun banter still

[tawdry mauve]

anything thats hard in space is technically a planetery-mass

[fiery copper]

My blood pressure is gradually rising

[wheat latch]

Oh no

[tawdry mauve]

this is some heavy coping at this point lmao

[fiery copper]

I sprung a leak in my forehead

[tawdry mauve]

there are planets larger than stars