📚lore-discussion

[fresh zephyr]

Cya

[chrome fog]

[rich veldt]

theres god knows how many lore cards you expect us to know them all?

[chrome fog]

This kids, is why we don’t powerscale

I am, simply enjoying this vacation and a break from college, work, and D2

[fresh zephyr]

Good for you?

[chrome fog]

Yes

[fresh zephyr]

In all honesty get off discord if you're on holidays tho

[chrome fog]

It is one weekend not a family retreat

[fiery copper]

Which of you dumbasses

[chrome fog]

Gotta scroll a whole lot idr

[fresh zephyr]

K, cause otherwise my rule is no internet when on holidays

[fiery copper]

If it's over then idc to go back and see

[chrome fog]

Y’know, this debate kinda shows how important the lore is to Destiny

[fresh zephyr]

Never said it wasn't

[fiery copper]

This server is like the catholic councils in the middle ages where they argued about whether Jesus fed 5000 people with bass or trout.

[fresh zephyr]

Lmaoo

Only in this destiny

Even the lore community can't agree on anything

[smoky rose]

Nah

The stories haven’t even been bad

The way they’ve been delivered is bad

[royal portal]

easiest lay up from previous lore and you try to shoot 3

nah story bad💀

[smoky rose]

Lightfall’s story is fundamentally fine it’s just delivered like shit

Seraph was god tier

[royal portal]

how💀

[smoky rose]

Haunted’s story was fine but it was peak generic at peak burnout

[smoky rose]

You can be salty about R dying if that’s what you are salty about

[outer dragon]

So Snackathun is coming back? Thoughts?

[smoky rose]

Should be interesting

[royal portal]

we lose the best character (calus)
Raspo does a system reset for the second time and doesnt act like an ancient supercomputer should

[smoky rose]

If the character interactions are half as good as they were when Saint and saladbar found out about it then it’ll be a fun season

[royal portal]

im salty about calus. disappointed in R

[smoky rose]

Calus was a despotic scumbag who went out as all despotic scumbags do

[outer dragon]

Calus heel turn makes sense

[smoky rose]

Deserved exactly what he got

[royal portal]

communist superleader turned pack god goes out bad

[outer dragon]

Rasputin sacrifice makes sense

[smoky rose]

Not even communist lmao

[royal portal]

calus’ charm was that despite being greedy and unredeemable currently he was a revolutionary in his previous life and had a (maybe false) personal relationship to everyone under him. his last experiment with egregore should have basically guaranteed near omnipresence but was suddenly put back into a body so we can have a campaign mission

[outer dragon]

Ascribing conventional politics to Calus is reductionist at best

[royal portal]

he is when the government does stuff

rasputin just took out a large chunk of what I like out of the game. that ones pure personal opinion. He just died twice to the witness after a senzu bean

[chrome fog]

Ah yes, Calus, the deadbeat dad who tried to reform an extra planetary empire of conquers into hedonists, got kicked out for ignoring the Hive God mass murdering their home planet, and then tried to follow the Witness so that he could realize his dream of being a pampered man baby whom everyone fights and dies for his entertainment

To which his plan fails because the Witness could not give less of a shit and gets curb stomped by a 10 year old immortal wizard

Like Clovis, he is an amazingly terrible person which makes him a fascinating character, but he’s been going one note ever since we’ve learned that he’s trying to do the Conquer the Universe thing and not just party all day

[fiery copper]

the fact that he has a body again after both the Glykon logs AND haunted is insulting.

give me the disgusting flesh-abomination version of calus that singlehandedly bumps the rating up to M

[chrome fog]

Mecha suit of goop Calus a la Kraang-style

Also to reduce Rasputin so poorly when he’s an AI with an emergent human consciousness, to the point that submind which is essentially a snapshot of his self could be resurrected as a Guardian, to which he had a moral dilemma that he did not respond well to once that happened

[smoky rose]

Calus wasn't much of a revolutionary, he was already in a position of significant power, he just got rid of the threats to that power

[chrome fog]

https://tenor.com/view/under-new-management-more-like-under-new-management-megamind-megamind-meme-jokez_da_joke-gif-19867663

[smoky rose]

Also the hive god happens after Calus gets yeeted tbf

[empty fern]

He just becomes a realistic pug

[smoky rose]

calus becomes emperor
stuff
midnight coup
red war
xivu moment
chosen

[chrome fog]

Mm fair

[empty fern]

[chrome fog]

Cug

[outer dragon]

I wanted to see Calus before he was healed. Dude was like super diseased or weak

[torpid flint]

Keep in mind as well, he’s so advanced, the vex struggled to simulate him

Well

Was

[chrome fog]

Albeit, that was one lone hobgoblin

Still, rather impressive considering they could simulate over 200 versions of Maya and the initial Ishtar team

[torpid flint]

Reckon if we still had the sundial we’ve be able to see how bad it got?

The simulations should still be out there

[deep pagoda]

Is there anything on like last city laws behind someone keeping a dead guardians somewhat alive ghost? Kinda like felwinters helm

[safe galleon]

I mean I assume, even if it wasn't a law, someone would make you mercy kill it or do it themself??? Even in Felwinter's case, Efrideet and Saladin were disgusted by it and the entry of his helm implies Saladin would have fought him over it

Of course Felwinter didn't take it off in the end but it still shows that it's not like, considered normal, since ghosts seem to be regarded just the same as humans by just about everyone who's human-allied in the D2 universe

[real ingot]

Rasputin's death had more weight than anything else in D2 I'd say

[peak coral]

seraph also was worth grinding

because practically every seasonal gun was good

look at the shit we have now

defiance=everything is shit
deep=1 or 2 good guns out of 12

[chrome fog]

Cascade point on the shotgun is * mwah * chef’s kiss

[gentle sapphire]

Hey just a heads up there is a leak going around with maybe fake or real stuff about the next season and lightfall story, so be careful out there

[trim grotto]

Don't worry about it. I have it on very good authority that it is, quote, extra omega fake. Appreciate the heads up, though.

[dim minnow]

let me guess, the leak said that Savathun was coming back next season

we all know she isn't coming back yet

she won't show up until the next saga

[trim grotto]

I have not read it. But I know someone who has, and who can actually confirm its validity, or lack thereof.

[idle raptor]

okay

what the heck is golgoroth

why is he so different from other ogres

[dim minnow]

I believe Golgoroth was made by Xol with the purpose of eating the other Worm Gods

however, they prevented that and then Oryx put one of his Tablets of Ruin within him to make a point to Crota

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/golgoroth?highlight=golgoroth

[ember storm]

Oryx has a habit of taking whatever the fuck he wanted and adding it to his family

Golgoroth became the family pet

[royal portal]

this what im talking about. he gets HR powers over his troops and ship with egregore and less than a year after he just gets new HR powers over his new troops and new ship

[rich veldt]

golgy is just the family pet dog lmao

[real ingot]

Thralls a re the treats

[royal portal]

I wont argue hes a negligent dad but deadbeat is false. he literally gave his daughter a priviliged upbringing and “let” her chase her dreams after that.
How is turning the states power from imperialism to social services bad? should they have continued to be mass murderers lol?
calus and xivu arent on the same time table.
Yes. we should all make calus happy inshallah☝️
if 1 person can kill the ultimate big bad boss’ minion after previously and after needing 6, that makes me mad and thats completely personal and not fact
clovis literally skipped 10k years of R&D with less lives than it takes the US today to achieve nothing. thats a good trade.
Calus being conqueror is bad, yes. I hate the writers for making complex actual ancient characters with unique (or clouded) perspectived into pg-12 ”Grr bad” or ”sudoku for the greater good” characters

• I aint reading all that💀

[ember storm]

he murdered Caiatl's pet dog and left it gutted on her bed because she loved it more than him

in fact he actually forced Caiatl's personal retainer, who she genuinely liked, to do the deed

[rich veldt]

ah yes a massive robot designed to test strength vs calus ego and new powers hes barely tested

and you really think he wouldnt make his robots stronger then him?

[royal portal]

Yes thats obviously bad. yes its obviously mental abusu. this is in juxtaposition to having lived a suoremely priviliged life AND being left to do what you choose to

family relations are more complex than individual scenes. constant fights dont mean there isnt genuine bonds. real life isnt disney where person does bad = is bad and my issue is with the writing that makes it that

[royal portal]

whats this in relation to and yes he would

[smoky rose]

He was extremely hostile to Caiatl's career choice

[ember storm]

the problem with that is that it wasn't freedom

[smoky rose]

Like exceptionally so

[ember storm]

calus barely tolerated anything caiatl wanted

[rich veldt]

your comment about how raid calus was stronger

[ember storm]

he wanted her to become an aristocrat

being pissed on by breathing scarves and everything

[smoky rose]

Also reminder Calus was still emperor

He didn't get rid of imperialism

[royal portal]

a robot is stronger than the eldritch horrors blessing

[smoky rose]

He just got rid of threats to his power (simultaneously generating 20x the threat to his power)

[ember storm]

isn't that just the exact case

we needed 5 other guardians and psion shenanigans to kill the robot

[royal portal]

outward imperialism* yes he was still the supreme power

[ember storm]

we just solo disciple calus with guns

[royal portal]

it is the case

again my issue is with that writing

I dont deny that its canon. it is

[ember storm]

if anything i'd say it's perfectly in line

[royal portal]

my issue is with people who make that canon

[ember storm]

the calu robot was never calus himself

[real ingot]

It was made to be stronger

[ember storm]

the entire point of it was a facade he put on to make himself look better

[real ingot]

Calus was weak

that was his entire character

[smoky rose]

If anything calus was such a weak man that the robot being stronger makes a lot of sense

[ember storm]

it makes sense that even with the backing of the witness, his true power never amounted to much

[rich veldt]

calus had greed and ego problems, it very much shows

[ember storm]

now if bungie gave him the wine lasers in his concept art

[real ingot]

I will reitirate what I believe was the case

the Witness wanted his army

[ember storm]

that would be a different story

[royal portal]

but that would mean that the power of the witness itself doesnt amount to much. it isnt s multiplier

[real ingot]

Calus was not the prime goal

[rich veldt]

calus was very much a single use pick

[royal portal]

and that too, why would the witness need an army when it can facetank a beam

its always why

[ember storm]

something extremely low multiplied by something is basically still very low

[real ingot]

Distractions

[ember storm]

calus was never a fighter

[rich veldt]

cause it got better shit to do

[ember storm]

he was just a fat piece of lard

[smoky rose]

Also Calus did not stop outward imperialism, his entire body guard were basically slaves he took as tribute from various peoples that got conquered

[real ingot]

Witness is busy doing shit they need

[ember storm]

also the entire point of LF was the Witness being stuck having to keep the Traveler locked in place

[real ingot]

Legion is distracting us

[smoky rose]

(disclaimer Ghaul killed them all)

[ember storm]

so it needed something else to go secure the Veil

that's what Calus' job was

he was never more than manpower

he himself was never really valuable

[royal portal]

calus still vibing in shroom dimension ☝️

[real ingot]

But yeah I feel like we can confidently say the Shadow Legion during Defiance was just distracting us from investigating Titan or the other returning planets

[royal portal]

he was valuable to me

[dim minnow]

Calus was more than strong enough to break through the Veil Containment from the get-go

he was just too lazy

[ember storm]

it’s my favorite part

the only reason Lightfall happened was because Calus didn’t want to do anything

[smoky rose]

Personally I think he just whipped out the pyramid drills and dolphin dived into the building

[ember storm]

if he just showed up, infiltrated the veil containment, and set up shop with the radial mast, the end

[smoky rose]

[ember storm]

but no

he didn’t want to do literally anything A

and he still didn’t get that drink

[safe galleon]

i'm sorry wine lasers??

[devout nimbus]

This one

[blazing wasp]

Remember what they took from us

[jolly vector]

titan strand minigun

[blazing wasp]

Wasn't it a flamethrower

[royal portal]

all bungie has ever had to do was make the concept art the game

[ember storm]

bungie artists need to stop making good things

they’re never making it into the game

[fiery copper]

WARLOCK

SPIDER

LEGS

[chrome fog]

What is with Calus attracting homebodies to defend him

[trim grotto]

they did that with Root of Nightmares, i'd argue
that raid looks gorgeous

it's breathtaking

[chrome fog]

New person new person how are they gonna be

[ruby pivot]

just curious, do we have a speedster like in destiny?

or we can count arc users as some sort of speedster?

[trim grotto]

Nothing quite as clear cut
Arc users were always nimble but the whole Amplified thing is new

So... not really, I suppose

[chrome fog]

Don’t necessarily have anything as broken as a Speedster, Arc users are the most practical parallel

[trim grotto]

Just Hunters in general being quick as one of their Hunter Quirks™️

[ruby pivot]

oh?

[chrome fog]

What are some things that go reeeel fast in Destiny?

[blazing wasp]

We haven't really needed going extremely fast either due to the risk that can come with

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/vanishing-point

do it Cron
give me the NLS Sparrow

[ruby pivot]

arc users got sent into the corridors of time

[chrome fog]

Considering that going fast usually ended with us getting hit by the Architects, probably never had any speedsters in Destiny

[trim grotto]

i 'member when going fast killed you

[blazing wasp]

Damn you're that old?

[trim grotto]

[ruby pivot]

i mean yeah u got a point

but surely we got some crazy for speed guardians out there

that tested those insane speed for science

[ruby pivot]

early to experience, too old to tell the tale

i guess

[fathom orbit]

Ive been outa the loop on destiny info since like the last 4 weeks of season 20. Just saw an insta short, is cayde really back?

[blazing wasp]

Next dlc, it seems so

It's a trailer

[blazing wasp]

https://youtu.be/gGa8K-yQr8k

[fathom orbit]

Oh hell yeah

[slim elk]

Seems the Witness isn't all that bad.. it's bringing back Cayde lol

[blazing wasp]

It's awful it brought back cayde

[wheat latch]

Didn't cayde say he did not want to come back

[ember storm]

it’s not like the witness would listen to him

also this is a vastly different situation

[wheat latch]

I'm more challenging the statement "Seems the witness isn't all that bad" for bringing cayde back

[ember storm]

pretty sure the “lol” at the end is telling of how serious it’s meant to be

[wheat latch]

[chrome fog]

Cayde’s come back into the narrative via Haunted, plus they don’t have to deal with Activision middling up how they want to write him, and from his tone and how the Nightmare of him was handled, it seems he’ll be written more seriously

[wheat latch]

They're not going to change his personality at all are they?

Cuz that's kinda the whole reason people loved him, a break from the seriousness

[trim grotto]

As Cayde-7

This seems to be the same Cayde, in a way

[wheat latch]

Oh, what's the difference? If that is a possible question to answer

[trim grotto]

Cayde-7 would be a new iteration, a reset, memory wiped.

Baseline, like a newly raised Guardian

The Crow to Uldren

[wheat latch]

Ohh, right

[snow plover]

Is saint 14 considered the strongest titan

Or guardian

[trim grotto]

He's the "greatest Titan who ever lived". Strongest? Maybe. Or maybe that's Wei Ning.

Can't really say.

[snow plover]

Ah

[wheat latch]

Lord Saladin is a titan too right?

[ancient fox]

The final cayde

[trim grotto]

He would say he was around before Titans, Hunters, and Warlocks were known as such. But yes, he is.

[chrome fog]

Actually people hated his dialogue becoming more “Marvel-esque”, which they rectified with exotic missions going into how paranoid he was despite his cheerful nature

[trim grotto]

Also yes
Early D2 had a tone shift which damaged his character
This is a great chance to rectify it

His lore characterisation is excellent

[chrome fog]

The way he speaks in the teaser points to his character given a bit more respect than how Vanilla D2 treated him

Also

Theories

[wheat latch]

There were times that he may have gone a bit too far but for the most part I never thought his character was "Marvel-esque"

Prior was he less energetic and more like Zavala and ikora?

[chrome fog]

• Glowing blue like a Memory from Haunted
• Teaser is beyond the portal
• Possibly a dimension of Light and Dark where all the instances of Cayde are merged into one singular Memory of Cayde given form? Which explains why he calls Ikora kid despite them being coworkers and almost close friends?

[trim grotto]

No, he was still a wise-cracker, but he also was competent. It wasn't just Cayde. Curse of Osiris, also early D2, made Vance into a different character than he was in D1, for example.

[chrome fog]

Supporting Evidence

• The ship Akashic Revelation from the Sonar Station, gives insight to what happens to someone crossing into the portal, also it’s name might hint at this dimension’s true nature

[wheat latch]

Cayde was never incompetent

[wheat latch]

"the portal" being the one on the traveler right?

[chrome fog]

Yes

[trim grotto]

My point is that it is a fairly popular opinion that D2 Cayde wasn't characterised as well as D1, due to the tonal shift of early D2 which didn't fully swing back around until around Forsaken.

[chrome fog]

He was a bit “goofier” than he had previously been; the lore characterized this as a sort of mid-life crisis where he realized he’s been stuck behind a desk all this time and might stay stuck that way, so he goes and does a bunch of field ops, ultimately leading to his death

The lore picks up a lot of the slack that the main campaigns dropped

[trim grotto]

This could be a good chance to show us who Cayde really is like we've seen in the lore. He's a fun character. He's interesting. It wasn't always shown.

[wheat latch]

Just clarifying, just saying this not competing with you guys lol
I have never heard complaints about his character nor have I ever thought his character changed much. To be fair though I did not fully play d1, more just watched my brother play through the years

So from d1 to d2 his character shifted to less professional? Was he still a unique character from others in that goofy way just less so?

[chrome fog]

Hopefully Final Shape Cayde will be more goodness for you, he’s definitely fun both literally and how his character is developed

[trim grotto]

Many people loved Cayde, and so that's often the only opinion you hear unless you've got your ear to the ground. Some people loved him a lot. Like a lot a lot, haha

[trim grotto]

I suppose... D1 Cayde had him on coms with you regularly, planning missions, being a Vanguard, making a wild plan to sneak into a Dreadnaught
D2 Cayde got stuck in a portal system and lost two limbs

It didn't do his character justice until Forsaken, when he... well, died.

[wheat latch]

So he lost some competence maybe lol, that plan to get onto the dreadnaught was very cool

[trim grotto]

It was very cool
and unsanctioned
and nearly killed us

But it worked

[wheat latch]

Yeah, but it was that thinking which got him killed

[trim grotto]

Also true
I have no issues with him in Forsaken, whether it be Last Call or the Ace in the Hole missions

Ace in the Hole especially, that really hit hard

Guy made messages for who he thought might kill him - who he expected might kill him

[wheat latch]

I'll have to look back on some gameplay of that stuff. So this cayde allegedly is more like d1 cayde?

[chrome fog]

Even someone he really liked (Ikora)

[slim mulch]

ikoras message :(

thatll always get me

[chrome fog]

More like Ace in the Hole-Nightmare Cayde, I believe

[trim grotto]

I suppose so, yes

[chrome fog]

If what happened to Joxer is to be believed, he’ll have his memories both before and as a guardian

[wheat latch]

Oh, that'll be interesting, has that ever happened to another guardian before?

[chrome fog]

Technically Crow but I believe this is different

[ancient fox]

Collectors edition will be cayde themed

[ember storm]

I mean, Cayde’s one of the only guardians to have a bunch of insight into his past than most

[slim mulch]

remind me
wasnt a fair bit of caydes thing his memories as an exo pre guardian

[chrome fog]

Maybe be more specific there’s a couple Collector’s Editions

[ember storm]

he had a ton of journals just on his person

[slim mulch]

or his past

[ancient fox]

Which one do you think im talking about

[chrome fog]

Ah, i read it more correctly

And I remember who you are

https://tenor.com/view/shut-up-shut-up-be-quiet-funny-gif-19370091

[ancient fox]

Cayde funko pop will have a cipher on it that will lead to epic cayde 7 lore

[wheat latch]

Did ace of spades drop with forsaken after cayde unalived? I remember something abt it being a "gift"

[trim grotto]

We took it from Uldren, who took it from Cayde. Worked to repair it with Banshee.

[tawdry mauve]

if we had to repair it with banshee does that mean we didnt actually shoot uldren with it

[trim grotto]

Post-campaign exotic, basically

[tawdry mauve]

since it would be inoperable

[trim grotto]

We did
It was just in garbage condition

Also Banshee made the gun in the first place so he probably felt obliged to fix it

[wheat latch]

This may be a broad and random question but how does a chest shot kill an exo

[trim grotto]

Can't say for sure, really. But it's safe to say they're very complex machines, and Cayde was already beaten within an inch of his life beforehand.

[slim elk]

Same way as it kills everything else. Exos still have "blood equivalent" pumping through them

[tawdry mauve]

dude got slammed by that scorn

right before uldren shot him

like the question should be

how did he survive that shit

[wheat latch]

Yeah, impact dmg still one shot back then

[ember storm]

I mean he was very clearly severely injured

[chrome fog]

Also maybe all the DER mitigation requires the sensation of being shot, which could place someone into enough shock to die; either that or make the exomind believe that the gunshots killed them

[ember storm]

the only reason he survived was because he’s a robot

[ember storm]

it’s not that it was inoperable, it was just damaged and plain unfit to use

[wheat latch]

Oh I didn't think about that, I'm assuming "DER mitigation" is an exo's way to "feel"?

[ember storm]

plus banshee wanted to make sure it was tuned to our specs

[trim grotto]

Feeling is a way to mitigate DER, rather

[ember storm]

for exos to be an upgrade to humans, they still need to be able to feel things

I’d argue it’s just how they work, regardless of der

[wheat latch]

What's der

[ember storm]

if you’re able to feel things then you’re able to feel pain

[trim grotto]

Dissociative Exomind Rejection

[wheat latch]

Thanks

[trim grotto]

It was a concept that plagued the Exo for years, especially before Humanisms were installed into Exo. A human mind would begin to believe it was in a false, dead corpse. It would go insane.

[chrome fog]

Clovis tried dumping the mind into an Exo frame with no receptors for human sensation because “We can leave all that behind in our new immortal bodies!” But turns out the exomind experiences severe body dysphoria and ends up killing themself

Did it multiple times actually before coming to the conclusion that the Exomind still needs to be able to have human sensation

[wheat latch]

I'd go insane if I couldn't feel anything

[trim grotto]

It still occures, and is one of the reasons that Resets were both implimented (to combat it) and occure (if they experience it, it hard resets them)

[trim grotto]

Exactly
And so did the Exo

Which is why Humanisms were made

It's why Exo are... human, in many ways

[slim elk]

So..
Quick massive lore reveal
Exos run off darkness infused radiloaria. It's there blood basically

[ember storm]

I wouldn’t really say infused

[chrome fog]

It’s ehhhh kinda

[ember storm]

also it’s more akin to their nervous system

[trim grotto]

Radiolaria converted by Darkness into a new product
Alkahest

[chrome fog]

Not really clear, but clearly the Darkness is a part of the Alkahest

[ember storm]

it’s how the mind is housed

[chrome fog]

This being supported by the Exomind failures to all Exos in the vicinity of the Veil

[slim elk]

Can agrue the semantics of it
Either way, losing lot of Alkahest=dead Exo

[ember storm]

fits with how Wilhelm went out, ig

[chrome fog]

That is 1 reason why Cayde could’ve died, we’ve been discussing the multiple factors contributing to his death

[slim elk]

Yeah. It's just important indicator that human deaths can be applied to Exos
As in "bleeding out" is entirely possible

[ember storm]

Taniks’ souped up DSC prosthetics appear to have tubes of alkahest

[slim elk]

Taniks is Taniks
Got decent odds if he ever returns a ghost is gonna be responsible

[torpid flint]

Don’t you dare

No

[slim elk]

We just stopped Oryx getting revived

[tawdry mauve]

he can still be taken

or scorn

[slim mulch]

imagine if we walked into GotD and saw taniks get revived

[tawdry mauve]

well not scorn

mostly just taken

[slim elk]

A light Risen Taniks to make Cayde snarkily ask if that was his secret would be fun lol

[torpid flint]

Kinda would have liked to see that

It would fuck with Xivu so badly

[slim mulch]

revives oryx
instantly kills him

[slim elk]

Savathun is probably gonna call us out on it

"That was going to help you dumkofs!"

[torpid flint]

Xivu probably would have gone insane had we not intervened

[torpid flint]

“Also gets my brother back”

[slim elk]

Thats actually my theory how we take Xivu off the board actually

[torpid flint]

I know, you said it before

[slim elk]

Utterly break her mind by revealing the truth heh

[torpid flint]

Savathun got pissed when we pulled the rug out from her

Imagine Xivu

[slim elk]

And imagine both her siblings realized it before her

[torpid flint]

Oryx did?

[slim elk]

Nope. Just saying if he got revived and learned about it from us...

[torpid flint]

True true

[slim elk]

Yeah..
Immaru is totally going to be trolling us about Oryx

"You could of had two Hive Gods on your side Neon Nerds. Instead you just kill mindlessly like the 4 armed zombies.."

[slim mulch]

dummy question
was oryx being revv'd part of savvys plan? cuz what i figured it was was getting someone to lead the lucent hive

which was essentially savvy being replaced

[tawdry mauve]

immaru is leading the lucent hive

much to the dismay of the actual lucent hive lol

he is the effective defacto leader

[slim elk]

How's is he pulling this off you may ask?
Savathun made the grand idea of leaving notes about her plans XD

[torpid flint]

Yup, the Vanguard is kinda uhh, dumb

To be fair, they have no guarantee at this time

[slim elk]

Can argue its a case of denial really. Godzilla Threshold got crossed when Witness created the portal

Whatever Savathun can do Witness is already doing worse and we have no way to stop it

Simple common interest means no backstabbing until the Witness is handled

Just in verse no one can think of it logically like that because of past trauma

[trim grotto]

Very likely, yes, it was part of her plan. She may have even hinted at it during her Two Truths, Two Lies.

[slim elk]

Two Truths, Two Lies is itself an indication Savathun planned in the event of her death

Admittedly she's just trolling us most of the time in it... but still

[trim grotto]

[slim elk]

?
Directly references it by teasing about it in a few lines

[trim grotto]

not you

someone posted and deleted a message about rohan

[frail sparrow]

Is it true that Hiraaks the mind bender married a hive wizard?

[trim grotto]

Hiraaks. And not exactly.

[frail sparrow]

Wait so it’s kinda true?

[trim grotto]

He took a Brood Queen as a consort, and controlled her Brood with mind controlling technology.

Look up Broodhold, one of the Tangled Shore strikes

[frail sparrow]

Is that strike still in game?(btw why are you in all channels in less than 10 minutes?)

[trim grotto]

No, it's from the Tangled Shore. Not in game.

And also I'm very speedy

[frail sparrow]

Take a little break

Drink some tea

[trim grotto]

Perhaps I shall

[frail sparrow]

There you go

[tulip knoll]

Savathun is definitely gonna say “I told you so” when we revive her and then proceed to savathun everywhere

[frail sparrow]

Yep we are also probably going to revive her next season and the finale will be xivu aurth turning against her sister and the last season of lightfall will probably be us killing her with the help of savathun.

But hey that’s just a theory

[tulip knoll]

Xivu is most certainly not dying in the season finale of lightfall

[frail sparrow]

Who knows bungie couldn’t give a flying fuck about the finale making sense with them working on marathon

It’s sad really

[tulip knoll]

She is genuinely in every sense of the word “unbeatable” as far as we know, so if Bungie cares about their story development they won’t off her in season 23

[trim grotto]

They've got different teams for marathon, buddy

They're not making everyone work on two things at once

They've been hiring a bunch of staff for a while now

[frail sparrow]

No I’m saying that the majority of bungie developers,and testers are all focusing on marathon

Very little groups are actually working on destiny

[trim grotto]

That isn't true.

[frail sparrow]

Bro I’m not lying

[tulip knoll]

No one’s calling you a liar, just misinformed

[trim grotto]

All due respect, I've got my thumb in quite a few different pies across Destiny. I assure you, it isn't so simple.

[frail sparrow]

Yeah your right but you can tell by just playing on destiny that the employee are just not working on it as much as before

[chrome fog]

[tulip knoll]

Different teams for different games

The same staff that has been working on destiny is still working on it

[chrome fog]

Evergreen
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/689677141012381726/1121471819828961280/image0.jpg

[frail sparrow]

Idk man I’m just tired of bungies shit

[tulip knoll]

[chrome fog]

[chrome fog]

Oh boy it’s not like they had a company restructure following their acquisition by Sony as well as having just made major changes to several systems in-game immediately after the quarantine years

[slim perch]

(this is bungies millionth restructure)

[fresh zephyr]

Is it drama time again?

Trust me, we're all tired of bungie shenanigans

[ember storm]

me when bungie expanding studio space means more available employees to work on different projects 🤯

[fresh zephyr]

I do miss the time when they had people working on pvp

[ember storm]

i don't

it's much funnier this way

[fresh zephyr]

Why tho

Same thing with gambit, sad seeing such a great mode just decay

[daring iris]

allegedly gambit getting a heavy rework in season 23

allegedly

I feel like eventually the drifter is going to be important to the seasonal story again so theyll throw in some new stuff for gambit

[ember storm]

every time drifter gets involved with story, he leaves gambit alone for weeks on end

it's basically his way of getting paid vacation

[chrome fog]

Cry

Anyways

Lore

How we think resurrecting Sav is gonna go? Will Immaru go crazy and refuse to cooperate despite Sav’s insistence? Will Sav still try to trick us? Will Xivu be another seasonal big bad again?

[slim elk]

Literally just us dragging it into the Throne World and defending it from Scorn till Immaru shows at the sheer Audacity of Fynch spam calling him

Maybe just putting Savathuns corpse on one of those payload things and parading it around

[ember storm]

those things automatically detonate

[slim elk]

Ahh.. you didn't play Lake of Shadows remake

Cabal managed to hijack and program them

[tulip knoll]

Xivu seasonal villain yes, immaru uncooperative yes, savathun try to trick us? 50/50

[slim elk]

Xivus likely the arc villain till Final Shape

No sign of any more Disciples pulling the strings. Even most of the Pyramids are gone

[ember storm]

I like the overarching theme that all the disciples were just narcissistic nerds

really shows who’s most susceptible to the Witness’ manipulation

[slim elk]

Where does Nezarec fall into that? Man just wanted to cause pain and terror lol

[tulip knoll]

Nezarec was simply put just a menace

Or is

I mean to say

[fresh zephyr]

?

[subtle stream]

when are we killing xivu and the witness

[final geyser]

does anyone have the mural from season of arrivals showing the 3 races standing up alongside guardians

Eliksni, Calab, Hive

[chrome fog]

Unknown yet, Witness will probably have to wait til Final Shape

[safe galleon]

i may have already asked this, but do we know what the star eater's scales exotic is referencing?

there's a quote in the description, but it's not attributed to anything or anyone as far as i can tell

[rich veldt]

which mural?

[final geyser]

it's some sort of mural or smthng showing the guardians + 3 other races standing up against the darkness

those races are hive, cabal, eliksni

i keep hearing about it but ive never seen it

[rich veldt]

i do not remember that tbh

[real ingot]

Arrivals statues I think

That may be what they’re referring to

[ember storm]

that was the Witness' depiction of its "salvation", not us uniting against it

the statue of the pyramid in the middle was casting a shadow over the eliksni specifically, alluding to house salvation already having access to stasis

[frigid sparrow]

Spinfoiling a vex season before final shape

Because they haven't gotten a single season dedicated to them since splicer

And since there's some stuff going on with them and the veil I'm thinking we're gonna be using nessus as a main location and doing some vex shit there since that's where a lot of vex terraforming is and it brings in failsafe to round out the year 1 cast returning in some way

[torpid flint]

Mercury coming back maybe? Perhaps?

[frigid sparrow]

yeah sure that too

going on a huge vex quest

doing stuff on mercury (has infinite forest), nessus (major vex-infested planetoid) europa (clovis ties to vex) and the vex network itself (sort of like how last city became an activity location later on in splicer) which leads to means of entering the traveler using bullshit space non-magic

and for safe measures an exotic mission/dungeon on neomuna since they got vex all up in their business

brings back failsafe and vance(?), gives us more vex stuff (always cool), and potentially closes up some story stuff on neomuna

[torpid flint]

Failsafe? Who’s that?(jk)

[frigid sparrow]

plus we can get cool vex-themed armor and weapons (haha bungie please make new weapon models)

call it "season of the network" for when the servers inevitably crash and burn so we can get that sweet sweet irony

[fresh zephyr]

We need more vex armor

That's easily obtainable (I'm too stupid to do GoS)

[smoky rose]

Phenotype plasticity is the goat and I'm so sad I didn't hit rank 100 in undying

only got 52

[empty fern]

So far have 4 of 5 currently obtainable sets

So uhhh, work with that?

Or 5/6 if you count mechanos

[fiery copper]

Ever since WQ released and we got a good look at pyramid tech and the witness, I've had a nagging feeling in the back of my mind, two data points that were connected but I couldn't remember what the other one was. I was watching mad scientist youtube videos, and it suddenly hit me.

Ferrofluid.

For those who don't know, a ferrofluid is (oversimplification) a magnetic liquid.

You cannot tell me it isn't even a LITTLE similar to the witness' jacket.

[smoky rose]

Its probably visually inspired by it

[dim minnow]

we'll probably find out that Pyramid tech/Resonance uses Light in a destructive way as suggested in the origin cutscene

[real ingot]

It makes me wonder what resonance truly is

[slim perch]

wibble wobble stuff

[dim minnow]

could be the destructive side of Light Ahsa alluded to

or maybe something sourced by the Veil

[blazing wasp]

Huh

[dim minnow]

hmmm

well the Light energy seen in RoN seems to be of the Traveler's power which is creative in nature

and RoN seems to show Resonance be the opposite of Light so maybe Resonance is destructive in Nature

wait hold on

ok, this is where I'm drawing this theory from

one half is terraformation which is creative in nature (perhaps an additive form of Light)
the other half is Resonance which is most likely destructive in nature (perhaps a reductive form of Light)

oh here we go, now I'm cooking

[empty fern]

Wait

[real ingot]

Dova in the kitchen

[dim minnow]

THIS MEANS THAT LIGHT COULD BE REDUCTIVE OR ADDITIVE WHICH MEANS LIGHT CAN BE APPLIED TO THE GARDENER OR WINNOWER'S IDEAOLOGY

[empty fern]

We finally got lore on that “useless sack of flesh”?

[dim minnow]

THE SAME COULD BE APPLIED TO DARKNESS

[dim minnow]

mainly concept art stuff

[empty fern]

Oh

As

Aw

[dim minnow]

which is what I posted

[empty fern]

Indeed

[dim minnow]

but you see the implications

[empty fern]

A little

[real ingot]

He has cooked

[dim minnow]

if Light can be additive AND reductive

[empty fern]

We can take the light away from our concept of “traveler creating life?”

[dim minnow]

it shows that the Light can be a tool of both the Gardener and Winnower

[empty fern]

Interesting

[dim minnow]

more so the Traveler using an "additive" form of Light to create life

[empty fern]

Ohhhh

Wait

Won’t this mean

[dim minnow]

while the Witness uses a "reductive" form of Light to end it

[empty fern]

There will be 2 other third party forces that use darkness in an additive and light in a reductive?

Oh wait

Ok ok

[dim minnow]

I think it is really the Traveler using Dark in an additive way

while the Witness uses Dark in a reductive way

I gotta tell mailstronnar about this

[empty fern]

Is it like a side of a coin or is it just a main force that can be used in different ways (more than 2)

[empty fern]

Oh god

[dim minnow]

hmmm

well I guess a main force that can be used in different ways

[empty fern]

I feel like I could word the latter better

[dim minnow]

the Light is the physical domain, so the Traveler uses paracausality to manipulate the Light in an additive way (creating life) while the Witness uses paracausality to manipulate the Light in a reductive way (kill things)

of course, this logic would have to apply to the Dark as well, but how exactly?

[empty fern]

But that would also question

What is the darkness if the witness is using the light in a reductive way

[dim minnow]

mindfuckery

[empty fern]

Fuck

[dim minnow]

like using dreams and such

[empty fern]

Oh wait no that makes sense

[dim minnow]

hmmm

[empty fern]

Like

Ascendent planes and such?

Or throne world logic

[dim minnow]

ok

so our world is the physical world, the worl dof Light

[empty fern]

Ye

[dim minnow]

and if the Ascendant Plane is the opposite of that, wouldn't it be the metaphysical world?

as in the world of Darkness

[empty fern]

Is it?

[dim minnow]

Mara (or Petra I forget) described it as a stack of coins

top one is our world, bottom one is Ascendant Plane

[empty fern]

Reminds me of like, old mythologies

Remember the nine realms? Wait no that won’t work cause those are mostly physical

[dim minnow]

ok, so the Light stuff pertains to our world while the Dark stuff pertains to the Ascendant Plane

[dim minnow]

Nine realms may be inbetween like the Ley Lines

[empty fern]

I see

[dim minnow]

so like both

I'm hosting a whole cookout tonight

[empty fern]

Oh god

And it seems I’ve been the only one attending, where tf are the lurkers

[dim minnow]

hold on

ok come on out

[real ingot]

ah fuck

I've been caught

[empty fern]

Bruh

[dim minnow]

we already knew you were here

[real ingot]

gp

back to Sploon 3

[dim minnow]

seriously, only us three?

ah well, I gotta keep this in mind when I see Mail(stronnar)man next time tomorrow

[trim grotto]

[real ingot]

THERE HE IS

[dim minnow]

oh hey, you're here

ok, you gotta hear this

[trim grotto]

I've been busy swimming
What's up buttercup

[dim minnow]

so, you rememebr this concept art of the Explicator?

[trim grotto]

Not particularly well, actually

[dim minnow]

this one

[trim grotto]

Uuh no, actually

But continue

[dim minnow]

oh, well ok, it seems to state that the Traveler's power of Terraformation is the opposite of the Pyramids' Resonance

[trim grotto]

I've heard people talking about this before actually

[dim minnow]

and we just got that Witness cutscene where it talks about how the Light is capable of great destruction

so what if the Light and Dark each had an additive and reductive form

essentially meaning that the Gardener and Winnower weren't constrained by Light and Dark

and that Terraformation is an additive form of Light while Resonance is a reductive form of it

also had a little side-theory on how the Ascendant Plane is meant to be the metaphysical/concious domain while our world is the physical one

[mystic fern]

Wait so savathun was a good guy along

She saved us

[dim minnow]

huh?

[mystic fern]

Why we kill her

[real ingot]

Play WQ

[mystic fern]

I did

[dim minnow]

well in WQ, her sealing the Traveler away would of screwed us over

[mystic fern]

I got parasite and apparently she saved us from witness or something

[real ingot]

that was much earlier

[dim minnow]

she wasn't on our side, it was just that we had the same enemy, which doesn't mean much to her

[real ingot]

saving herself was the better term

[mystic fern]

So is she dead dead

[dim minnow]

during the Collapse, she stole the Veil after killing Nezarec which was one of the reasons why the Darkness was pushed back

[dim minnow]

no, her ghost, Immaru, still lives

[mystic fern]

I haven’t played lightfall but I saw that cutscene where the witness arrived

Why did it not just

Blow up the traveler

It said some scary words

Then disappeared????

[real ingot]

OH BOY IS IT THAT TIME AGAIN

[trim grotto]

You should probably play Lightfall

[mystic fern]

Then again I haven’t played lightfall so

[trim grotto]

And this seasonal story

[mystic fern]

Ok bet

I havent played in like five months

[daring iris]

just had a toland voice line in the ascendant challenge where he referenced "the final shape at the end of the universe arriving"

didnt know bungie was planning 5 years ahead like that

assuming that was added on the release of forsaken

[rich veldt]

who woulda thought the game dev planned their 9 year story arc out

[empty fern]

Destiny 2:Causality (next expansion name )

After light and dark saga

[trim grotto]

The Final Shape has been a concept since D1

[ember storm]

D1 taken grimoire be like

[fresh zephyr]

D1 grimoire was fire

[chrome fog]

Dova i love this theory; this could further imply that the Winnower wasn’t originally a creator of the universe - that it’s a false sister to the Gardener - that was created by the Witness, whose need for reduction stems from its want of a purpose from the Gardener

[worthy shell]

How many guardians could Dredgen Yor take (With the original Thorn) take in a fight?

[trim grotto]

Literally cannot say
Yor could kill a Guardian dead with a single shot of Thorn, but a Guardian is just as deadly
And we don't know the full extent of Yor's strength

[ruby pivot]

what is this?

darkness prediction stuff?

[trim grotto]

Concept art

[uneven canyon]

Was hawkmoon given to us or crow?

[chrome fog]

We forged Hawkmoon out of a piece of the Traveler - ‘round the area of the Shard - and formed it in the shape of the original Hawkmoon

Not sure if it’s privated to prevent copyright strike, but Destiny Lore Vault on YouTube should have a playlist for all the steps in the exotic quest

[marsh fern]

why does drifter tell me to bring a sword when fighting hice

[trim grotto]

Pretty sure he's making a Sword Logic joke.

[devout nimbus]

Because they're iconic for using swords

Also sword logic

[tawdry mauve]

sword logic

[chrome fog]

Swoooooooord Logic

[empty fern]

Mael, dova was cooking a 5 course meal last night, you shoulda joined in

Oh you joined near the end

Do it again

[trim grotto]

i was actually literally cooking a meal at that time

[empty fern]

Lmfaoooooo

[chrome fog]

It was super tasty, real goodies in that cook out

[devout nimbus]

Sounds nice

[torpid flint]

Damn Dova you really did cook up a good theory

[pearl basin]

can rasputin really destroy the ping pong ball ?

[empty fern]

At 3 in the morning they did

[empty fern]

Well, a bunch of supercharged sleeper simulates would do some damage I think

And since he’s destroyed ghost before, I feel like he’d leave some damage

[fallow sky]

Do we know what the nine are yet?

[empty fern]

Space dust

But like

Space dust that got sentient and wanna be independent

[fallow sky]

Ah

[empty fern]

And also curious so they mess around with drifter and other things

[fallow sky]

what about 🐴

[empty fern]

I don’t know, maybe some relevance since rhulk has horses in his Dorito,

Maybe space horse is bungie

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/the-nine
This entry for specifics
But I recommend the entire book, Dust
It's fascinating
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-dust

ignore the, uh, fish

baxter's having a funny

[devout nimbus]

Fishtar collective

[chrome fog]

Told the wife I went down to the bank
Never told ‘er which one

[torpid flint]

The river bank

[analog torrent]

what is the actual "cooldown" of our abilities

I assume they're much longer for gameplay reasons but in lore would it be more like Mayhem

[chrome fog]

Y’know how when you do something that requires a lot of effort and you need to take a break before you can do it again?

I think that’s what the cooldown is but for Light; Mayhem is a mystery to me though

[tawdry mauve]

yes

[slim mulch]

fishtar collective

[torpid flint]

I have a dumb theory on this

Ya know how Raid banners refill our abilities?

what if Shaxx has something similar that empowers our light, but takes a massive amount of energy to use?

making it practical for Mayhem, but not practical for military deployment

[tawdry mauve]

you know shaxx litterally says [lets see how you fight with nothing holding you back]

not verbatim but you get it

mayhem is cannonically aprox. how fast guardians can spam out abilites and supers

[torpid flint]

But then shouldn’t we be fighting like that in non darkness zone?

[tawdry mauve]

gameplay...

its not a hack and slash

[torpid flint]

Yes yes I’m aware

[chrome fog]

I wouldnt say it’s our “canonical” power, seeing as we have normal recharge in campaigns and dungeons/raids;
Building on Warlock’s comment, it’s more like “Yo here’s a bunch of super recharge, go fucking wild”

[tawdry mauve]

i mean to say lore wise

once again

"we have normal recharge in campaigns and dungeons/raids;"

this is for purely gameplay reasons

we know that any guardian has the ability to effectively spam out supers and abilites

because thats just the way that works

[chrome fog]

And again, Mayhem is not really indicative of our power level as it’s a gimmick game mode

So to use your argument against you, it’s not really canon

There’s a reason the timeline is noted by what we do, not how we do it

Keeps it open ended so that each player’s experience of a campaign or raid or dungeon is ‘canon’ to them and technically be true

If you want “lore accurate power”

There is none

[tawdry mauve]

well that last part kinda goes out the window since each player is the 1 young wolf

and each raid was succesfully completed first try by us

[chrome fog]

We are a decade old Risen, and whilst we’ve achieved some impressive feats, we are still not Ikora, Osiris, Sav level power

[tawdry mauve]

i feel like youre underestimating our guardians "feats" here

and a lot

[chrome fog]

Yes, but again there’s no canonical “build” that the Guardian uses in said raids and events

They have things in their inventory canonically but again, nothing specific

So the sole Young Wolf could potentially be your guardian, the one you play as

[tawdry mauve]

well it is

this goes for everyone

everyone is playing the "sole young wolf"

[chrome fog]

It’s always some wack take or power scaling why

[tawdry mauve]

what???

nothing about this is power scaling

nor to claim that everyone plays the same guardian in the lore is a wack take

[chrome fog]

[tawdry mauve]

its litterally the truth lmao

we are all the same 1 guardian that was risen in the cosmodrome, that defeated oryx, that killed riven etc. etc.

[slim elk]

Guys are thinking way too hard about gameplay logic lol

[tawdry mauve]

every player plays the young wolf

[chrome fog]

“Yes the Young Wolf went into a raid with 5 other Young Wolves”

[tawdry mauve]

this isnt some crazy take its litterally how the narrative of the game is designed

[tawdry mauve]

no the young wolf went into a raid with 5 unnamed guardians

[slim elk]

Enemies coming back from the dead and getting killed every 30 minutes ain't canon (see public events)

[chrome fog]

And yet. We all play the Young Wolf

[tawdry mauve]

yes

we do

because like i told you

the games narrative is designed that way

[torpid flint]

Hell the only damn raid that’s truly Lore Accurate is Last Wish

That’s it

[chrome fog]

[tawdry mauve]

even new lights who wake up today

are still the young wolf

because the new light experience in d2 is not cannon

[chrome fog]

[smoky rose]

It's canon max effort but you burn yourself out really quickly

[tawdry mauve]

so all of the previous achievements of d1 still apply to them

[chrome fog]

I’ll take that

[tawdry mauve]

i feel like youre awfully dissapointed your guardian isnt some unique individual from the rest

[chrome fog]

That’s not

[tawdry mauve]

but there is a reason shaxx called every player saladins young wolf at the start of red war

[chrome fog]

No

[torpid flint]

To add to your point, only Orsis, and Ikora and old guardians have “super spam”

[chrome fog]

I’m gonna come back to this but my temples hurt

[torpid flint]

Also, so you’re saying Double, that everytime we do a raid, there’s 5 other Young Wolves?

[tawdry mauve]

no

im saying there are 5 unnamed guardians

joining the young wolf

the entire fucking story of forsaken would make 0 sense if each individual player was their own different guardian in the story

[torpid flint]

Gameplay Lore

[slim elk]

Incorrect
Savathun

[torpid flint]

That’s… an expection

Hive Lightbearers have way quicker super recharges than we do

[vocal nebula]

Irl d2 lore, did you know that twilight garrison caused a divide between the devs and the players due to threats

[slim elk]

Young Wolf still tears apart Hive Guardians canonically
Took out a whole "fireteam" en route to Savathun

[chrome fog]

So, to reiterate the point I’m making:

• there is no “real canonical” super recharge for the Young Wolf because every player’s build needs to be put into consideration when constructing the Young Wolf’s story
• building into that, the point I’m trying to make is that all player characters can be potentially the Young Wolf to accommodate for the power fantasy of the players; it’s not that everyone is playing the Young Wolf, it’s that all guardians (players) could be the Young Wolf
• Taking Discus and Warlock’s contributions to mind, Mayhem may be the Young Wolf’s super charge when uninhibited by the drain that comes afterward, akin to how the rally banners recharge super and ammo

[tawdry mauve]

altough i agree with points 1 and 3

point 2 is still not true lol

[chrome fog]

[tawdry mauve]

because yes every player controls the young wolf

lore wise there is only 1

and from everyones perspective they are that 1

everyone else is just a random guardian

the opposite of what you said

[green cobalt]

yea

the young wolf is the canon stand-in for the entire community

[royal portal]

just remember the god we worship is canonically weaker than a lot of angsty people

[chrome fog]

[tawdry mauve]

i think my assessment may have been right

[safe galleon]

Doesn't there have to be more than one """main character""" on account of us canonically having a fireteam of 6 to do raids n stuff

I mean I think it's a dumb discussion to begin with to be clear

We all know who the main character is, and it's me

(/j)

[chrome fog]

I’m thinking we’re saying the same thing but the wording is making us think they are opposing statements

[chrome fog]

https://tenor.com/view/bart-simpson-strangle-gif-10314540

[safe galleon]

Clearly we are all one-fourty-millionth the Young Wolf and we all share custody of Ghost

I get him on the third Wednesday of every month

[chrome fog]

Every player is simultaneously the YW as well as the unnamed guardians they roll around with

And the story and activities have dialogue structured in a way to accommodate that fantasy of the Young Wolf to every player

[safe galleon]

I can agree with that

I think there is no real 'young wolf' in an in-universe sense to be honest, in the sense that the 'young wolf' is the player themself, or whoever they want them to be

It's just a template to project onto however you like

Or, once again, we are all equally one fourty-millionth the YW and we all share custody of Ghost, kind of like a country-sized chain of divorced parents

(Again, /j)

[chrome fog]

Entering the Corridors of Time have irreparably divided our true essence into every and all guardians risen since 2014

(/j)

[dim thistle]

How tall is Oryx compared to the witness?

Is oryx taller than Savathun technically

[safe galleon]

Do you actually need an answer here or are you just messing around

Because I think you can eyeball it when it comes to Oryx and Savvy 😭

[dim thistle]

Why would I be messing around?

I mean why wasn’t savathun massive in her throne world compared to Oryx

[safe galleon]

As for the Witness, it SEEMS to be able to control its size in-universe to an indeterminate degree

So we don't exactly know how it stacks up in relation to Oryx

[smoky rose]

Oryx is also to some degree able to control his size

[chrome fog]

She simply didn’t want to, as is the rules of Throneworlds that the owner can change it to however they want theirs to be

[chrome fog]

The Witness seems to be on a sliding scale of height, never really committing; they’re eye level to Calus one moment and then about as large as the Traveler in another

[smoky rose]

Regicide oryx is much smaller than KF oryx

[chrome fog]

There might also be something with her no longer having her worm that’s affecting this; she could’ve shaped her Throneworld the way that it is now and then became a Lightbearer, and thusly the Throneworld is no longer sustained by her Ascendent power but the Wellspring

[dim thistle]

Oh ok

[pine lion]

Hey uhm lorekeepers, can you explain to me what the fuck the cutscene from barotrauma was?

[chrome fog]

Origins of the Witness

[pine lion]

“The witch queen must rise”? Is savathun coming back?

[pine lion]

That was last week

[chrome fog]

Probably, we’ve been saying as much

[pine lion]

Silly boy

[dim thistle]

Wait what I thought he was 117 ft

[safe galleon]

The other explanation, which is much more boring, is just "Savathun being big wouldn't work because then she'd have to have mechanics, and campaign bosses keep mechanics to a relative minimum"

[chrome fog]

Exactly, you’re late by a week

[pine lion]

Bro barotrauma is this week

The last week

Week 6

[chrome fog]

[pine lion]

Last week was the one with the witness and the winnower and the gardener

[chrome fog]

The reset hasn’t happened yet

That’s tomorrow

You just missed last week

No wait actually

[pine lion]

I didint miss last week.

I saw the witness origins

[chrome fog]

Nvm that is a different cutscene

But either way yes, we’ve been theorizing Savathun would have to return at some point or other

Mainly because she was only around for a season and then expansion

And that was it

[safe galleon]

I do think it's really funny how Sloane went on this entire mission risking her life and effectively inflicting herself with what appears to be the equivalent of a permanent disability just for Ahsa to be like "IDK LMAO, ask Savathun"

[pine lion]

Frrrrr

[smoky rose]

Well Ahsa did explain the origins of the witness

No reason for her to know how to bypass the portal

[pine lion]

Can someone assasinate Sloane?

Her purpose has ended, we learned Ahsa’s Secrets of the witness from sloane being the messanger for her

[dim minnow]

why?

[pine lion]

Like in your name, I dont like sloane

Shes been gone for 4 years

Why come back now

[dim minnow]

why don't you like Sloane?

and she's back now because she stayed on Titan

[pine lion]

I dont her because she was never relevant until niw

Now*

[dim minnow]

of course she wouldn't be relavent until now, Titan was gone until this season

[chrome fog]

“Ah yes, kill characters because they no longer have use, that’s a great outlook to have as guardians”

[pine lion]

I mean thats what the traveler did to us

And to the fallen

[chrome fog]

You’re joking right?

[pine lion]

Yes bro, Sloane was an eh character but i do miss the vaulted planets

I like mercury

Loved io

[dim minnow]

I think they did a good job in expanding Sloane's character in this season

[empty fern]

Ah yes

Traumatized titan on titan cowering in a corner from the Saint of the hive

[pine lion]

But why so late into the Timeline

We are almost at the end

[dim minnow]

and the whole "determined to a detrimental extent" sort of deal

[dim minnow]

Bungie never had much reason to expand on her previously, but Titan's return gave them the opportunity

[empty fern]

Can I get a current status on the infinite forest?

[dim minnow]

inaccessible to us

so we have no idea

[empty fern]

Aw

But also

Good

Perfect opportunity for the “infinite onslaught”

[dim minnow]

the what now?

[empty fern]

Concept that was cooked up in genchat

[chrome fog]

she’s our connection to Titan, where an Enemy of the Witness was said to be; turns out that was Ahsa, who has been helping her survive
There’s also the lore relevancy of Titan being a laboratory of sorts for Savathun, which is another commonality that these clues to reaching where the Witness went have: Savathun’s involvement

[empty fern]

We get vex as cod zombies

[green cobalt]

savathun? not xivu arath?

[trim grotto]

Way back in D2 vanilla

Savathûn's Song strike, that one Undying Knight, so on

[dim minnow]

makes me wonder if something similar is the reason why Kelly keeps coming back

he used to be Hidden Swarm who loved heresy

[chrome fog]

I remember there was mention of the crystals in the Savathun’s Song strike having ghosts inside them; plus it tracks with how the Lucent Hive were found to be harvesting Light from Ghosts and Guardians

Plus I’m pretty sure that portal public event had some dialogue about stopping whatever experiments Savathun was doing there, that ended up going unexplored save for the strike and whatnot

[green cobalt]

i don't remember any of it

[dim minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/i-saw-w-gus-fring-gus-gustavo-deleted-gif-25440636

[fresh zephyr]

Is the final wish existent

[smoky rose]

The 15th?

No, if it does we still haven't found it

[fresh zephyr]

Idk how many wishes there are

[tulip knoll]

I believe there’s 15 or 14

[real ingot]

lore book says 15

We've found 14

[torpid flint]

Considering it theorized to be a randomized combination, that constantly randomizes, probably never

[torpid flint]

Be funny if that was a typo

[real ingot]

I mean

it has its own description

[torpid flint]

Typo paragraph

[green cobalt]

the 15th wish is the raid itself the last wish

[chrome fog]

Both kek and /srs that could be true

[south temple]

Did Holliday actually like like crow or was it only crow who like her in their friendship (ik it’s kind a stretch to say they were friends)

[chrome fog]

They had something going on for sure, but when he took on Uldren’s memories in Lost she didn’t like that he was going digging into his past and was afraid he’d start going down a similar path as Uldren. In recent seasons, across like one lore entry or radio recording each, they’ve been patching things up, with Defiance being the most they ever did towards working back to an actual relationship. Then Amanda died. RIP Crow, this is a moment to grow past the rage and vengeance Uldren once had before, even if it hurts (you could say his relationship to Amanda was as close as Uldren’s was with Mara, which is concerning seeing as how that panned out for Uldren)

[south temple]

Ah ok thx

Do you think it would’ve gone differently if uldren didnt get his memories back or didn’t go digging deeper in his past?

[smoky rose]

Not necessarily

Amanda was extremely close friends with Cayde

Even if they aren't technically the same person its still the same face

[south temple]

True

I do remember seeing a interaction between the two where she was still mad at crow cause he technically killed cayde

[chrome fog]

*Crow not Uldren

[south temple]

My bad

[chrome fog]

And no, she was more frustrated that he - someone she cared about - wanted to know more about his past life as someone that killed another person she was close to; it’s conflicting because she’s aware they’re two different people but her thoughts go to the same place yours and many other people’s do when they see Crow: he’s just Uldren

Very conflicting when your maybe-best friend maybe-boyfriend also looks like the person that killed a close personal friend that’s been around since you were a kid and is digging into that past self

[south temple]

Yeah

Thx for answering my question and clearing things up

[chrome fog]

Np 👍

[limpid flower]

i completely forgot that mara led the house of wolfe

wolves

[little gorge]

"wow guardian, this truly is our destiny 2 forsaken: last wish raid"

[dim minnow]

"You may have been behind all of this Riven, but we can forge our own Destiny too, for you are Forsaken and you have made your Last Wish"

[ember storm]

it truly is our destiny to explore the dark below, hunt down the house of wolves, execute the taken king, and instigate the rise of iron

[mystic moon]

why is cayde dead? shouldnt his ghost revive him?

[trim grotto]

Well, yes, normally.

But his Ghost, Sundance, was shot and killed directly before Cayde died.

[mystic moon]

oh i havejt watched it in a while

[empty fern]

Watch

[drifting pond]

did nezarec create the nightmares on the moon before he died?

[empty fern]

Think so?

[tawdry mauve]

im sure he can figure out a way to do it 💀

[empty fern]

Just gotta break some rules

Or awaken the traveler

Oh wait

[slim elk]

Don't worry
Witness is bringing back Cayde for us

[fresh zephyr]

How many gods of pain were there? (Assuming there was multiple bc Nezarec was described as the final god of pain)

[empty fern]

I feel like it was more of a banshee situation

So nezzy died and came back a lot

Each time probably more powerful

[fresh zephyr]

So he would be the only one but the witness would bring him back to life?

[fiery copper]

"final god of pain" is a title given to a red herring character in a single lore tab in vanilla d2. the fanbase loved it so much that bungie made him canon. the title itself was originally meaningless.

[empty fern]

Oh damn

[fiery copper]

it definitely has some kind of meaning now though

i just dont know what

[fresh zephyr]

Is oryx still alive?

[empty fern]

Probably not?

We got his giant official corpse in the ghost dungeon

[fiery copper]

hes so dead

like, it is unreal how deceased this mans is

hes so dead that the lucent hive weren't even sure it was POSSIBLE to resurrect him as a lightbearer, they were just trying anyway.

we killed him in his throne world, while he was being eaten from the inside by a space parasite, and then he fell into the ocean on titan where he sits to this day as a giant petrified bug corpse

[tawdry mauve]

we litterally fight inside his corpse

in gotd

[empty fern]

Didn’t he kill his space parasite?

[fiery copper]

Nope

In fact, he overclocked it during the raid encounter.

[empty fern]

Ohhh

Neat

[chrome fog]

He’s dead but there’s a maybe to him being alive.
His corpse is growing and accumulating ascendent and taken energy

Perhaps his adherence to the Sword Logic is allowing him to survive in a similar manner as Xol? But since he has never broken from it outside of its base rules he doesn’t know he can come back

[empty fern]

“I think I’m dead so I’m actually dead”

[empty fern]

But this means savathuns little 2 truths and 2 lies is gonna change a little

[chrome fog]

For real this might be the case

[empty fern]

Oh well

[chrome fog]

It always does; her lies are half-truths and her truths always come with a caveat; the inherently interpretive nature of her intel - as well as Destiny’s lore as a whole - means we can never be too sure but we can make very educated guesses how things pan out

[empty fern]

Taken king I will gladly have come back

[slim elk]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qK4te84rflo

So..
Wasn't much a "distributed network" after all. Straight up conductor and chorus... all dead

All for the basis of the Cloudark... which is hardwired into everything in Neomuna

[fading basin]

Ok so

I just caught up on the season

The witness

THE witness

Is JUST SOME RANDOM ALIEN?

Like

Yeah it's an entire race of people in one body

But that just feels so

Anticlimactic

[slim elk]

Is an entire species conjoined together. Implications is its the first race traveler uplifted

And.. likely the process of its creation was being replicated in Neomuna

[fading basin]

What do you mean by the second part?

[dim minnow]

The Veil was used to create the CloudARK and it is likely that the Veil was how the Witness made itself into an Egregore

[slim elk]

Watch the video I posted

If the process is not the same. It's extremely damn similar

And that's in verse characters noting the similarities

[chrome fog]

A race that studied both the Light and Darkness and made the Traveler flee for its life, which tracks with entries suggesting the “flowers” - the mortal races in the Flower Game - seize the First Knife

[final geyser]

im immediately wondering if the new exotic scout is a weapon of sorrow

the ornament seems to be its "original" state

[rich veldt]

you got screen shots of the descriptions and lore stuff? as i just know its still gonna be classified on the api

[final geyser]

hol up

the ornament is just a standard VEIST Scout

[rich veldt]

hm

[final geyser]

lore tab is just xivu screaming her head off

like usual

[rich veldt]

i still would like to read please

[final geyser]

im not on pc rn sadly

i just had that saved

[royal portal]

you dont get it its actually GOOD to humanize demystify and reduce villains because grey goo is more fun☝️

wonder who omen is

[slim elk]

The funny part on the Witness is that it shows mortals can triumph over the "gods" of the Destiny setting

[chrome fog]

Mfw trying to inspire the joy of discovering the nebulous nature of existence even in the face of mythical forces beyond normal comprehension, which gives grander possibility to the already numerous ways we can understand and explore existence

[slim elk]

I'm more interested in the "ghaul" approach of hijacking and utilizing the full paracausal forces of the universe... which seems to be the Witness plan admittedly

[exotic cloak]

Please tell me Eli did something after BL