#RNG reduction and QoL in advanced runs

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slow lance
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Discuss ways in which RNG could be reduced in Shattered Pixel Dungeon for the Quality of Life of the player during high challenge runs here!

We all know and love RNG. But when let completely loose it can become a hassle to deal with, having to rely on RNG to be able to develop your skill.

RNG reduction mechanics are not new in any way, I'm aware that this idea is not a groundbreaking discovery. We can see them in the shops that spawn after every boss fight to be able to guarantee a weapon/armor/scroll if one hasn't been found the floor before, and we can see it in the guaranteed stone of intuition in sewers to be able to help out in potion 50/50s where one is harmful and the other one is a progression item.

However; I do believe that more RNG reduction mechanics like these are needed to make the game a bit less of an RNGfest and more of a test of skill especially when challenges are enabled, most notably on 9chal to 6chal runs.

Please feel free post any ideas or opinions that you have regarding this topic.

slow lance
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I'll start:
There is such a thing as unfair champion spawns, which I believe are an unneeded mechanic.

A giant snake on floor 1 requires an exceedingly large amount of perfect rolls to kill unless you are the rogue or the wizard; or find an early wand or other means to deal with it. If not, fighting it will most likely result in death.

This means that with huntress and especially warrior, a floor 1 fight with a giant snake can mean that the run is over even before it started, since it can deny access to progression items in rooms or even prevent access to the exit stairs.

I do not think that this should be a feature in Shattered Pixel Dungeon, so I will propose some possible solutions to this problem.

1 - Make giant sewer snakes unable to spawn in exit rooms and in rooms with progression items.

2 - Disable this champion-enemy combination spawn entirely as it is unreasonably RNG and/or resource dependant to defeat.

3 - Disable champion spawns on floor 1.

4 - Heavily curb the nature of this spawn so that it is feasible to deal with, such as nerfing either its evasion or its defense.

gusty lark
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Huntress have no issues with giant snake, wdym

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Throw something at the door to open it

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And Bow it to death

deft cosmos
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Projecting brutes should not spawn because when they enraged: two shot

sour stratus
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Why wizard?

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Wizard have 6 letter

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Word mage have 4 letter, allowing you to type faster

open sierra
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garenteed hp pots in sewers and prison (just 1) for new players who thing the game is too hard

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also for me bc I'm bad at shpd

chrome flame
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I'm the biggest fan of QoL you'll ever meet but I think that crosses the line between "convenience" and "make the game easier" 😅
(not that I think it's a bad idea per se)

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Actually, doesn't the hp pot from the shop in prison count?

slow lance
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Another issue with pure RNG

gusty lark
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worst case u ill get 1-2 hits

slow lance
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A giant champion

gusty lark
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to open space, yes

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where u can snipe them out of the room

slow lance
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Then they see you, they come back, and you need to do it again

gusty lark
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and due tp SHPD room generation u can always go a big circle and come from the other door int he room

slow lance
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That's a huge satiety usage

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Very resource intensive

deft cosmos
slow lance
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Feasible in 1chal, a pain in higher chal, a death sentence in 9chal

gusty lark
deft cosmos
gusty lark
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and in the worst case u restart the run, it's just a floor 1 anyways

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and its not like ur playing TCPD and doing a dynasty

slow lance
gusty lark
slow lance
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Unwinnable runs are a problem and it should be solved

gusty lark
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they are winnable

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just use satiety to do a circle

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or lure it out and ki9ll it while ur outside

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throw something at the door to not break sightline

slow lance
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I assure you that you can't.

gusty lark
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U never mentioned 9chal in the first place so I assumed a regular champions run

slow lance
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Balancing for it is hard, but it is necessary. If you don't balance it, why have it as a feature.

gusty lark
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giant snake is by far not the only and not the worst issue of 9chal

slow lance
gusty lark
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RNG will always be a part of the game and you can never get rid of it. Yes, you can get good enough so you can win 100% of the 0chal runs

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but some runs will still be easier than others

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this is amplified for highchal

slow lance
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You can't win 100% of 9chal runs and I think that's an issue.

I believe that a dedicated player should be able to hone their skills to a degree in which they can reliably beat the hardest challenges in the game without having RNG as a roadblock.

I know that Evan is indie, and that the game is free and open source; and that features like the one I'm talking about are only seen in fully fleshed out professional games such as enter the gungeon, the binding of Isaac, slay the spire, etc; but I really think it would be healthy to take a step in the right direction.

Even if it's just removing blazing crabs on floor 3 or giant snakes on floor 1. Every change counts and is a step forwards to a better game.

gusty lark
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Afaik, on max challenges, none of the games you mentioned are 100% beatable

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aka, from the time I was in slay the spire community, best players I knew could only beat ~60% of the runs on hardest difficulty (forgot how those challenge stuff is named in StS)

slow lance
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Ascencions

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I've done ascension 20 Ironclad plenty of times, and the only times I've lost were because of making the wrong choice iirc

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Can't speak about the other characters though

wary flare
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Reducing RNG in Shattered even more? Shattered PD is precisely the mod where those QoL changes appear more often and I believe that's not going to change.

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And no I don't personally think the "right direction" is necessarily the one that leans towards reducing RNG.

covert moat
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All dungeon crawlers need some RNG, or it'd be the same and predictable. Then it isn't a roguelike

slow lance
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Of course, we all know and love RNG and removing it would completely break the game. RNG has very positive aspects when it comes to replayability, unpredictability and overall fun. I enjoy RNG just as much if not more than you do. @covert moat @wary flare

This positive side of RNG is not what my post is about.

My post is about reducing the RNG that negatively impacts the game such as unbeatable seeds, frustrating/impossible encounters, and other current issues within the game especially in advanced playthroughs to which this post is dedicated to discussing.

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RNG reduction and QoL in advanced runs

verbal edge
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Maybe having Evan tell about every run being winnable was a mistake

slow lance
junior nebula
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I agree with the idea of making the challenge runs more easy, but that will make normal runs disgusting since you can already win it easily, I mean I've won shattered 100times in a row.

chrome flame
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"but that will make normal runs disgusting"
Huh? I don't understand this part at all. How would nerfing challenges affect normal runs since, you know, they don't have challenges on at all

slow lance
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I think that this is a great example of what qualifies as unfair RNG

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I cannot, by any means, defeat this enemy. This enemy will end my run. Why is it in the run? Why should unbeatable runs exist?

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It chased me for three turns before aggroing on me. It could see me in all of the three spots behind the pillar opposite to it so it dealt 25% damage to me each turn from about 8-9 tiles away until I died

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This is not fair, fun or balanced. This is bad game design. Working towards fixing this or at least noting it down to fix later would be a step towards a healthier game.

verbal edge
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here is one issue

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this is 9chal

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it is definitely not balanced game mode

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I don't deny than this is

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an issue

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but you have made the situation harder for yourself

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most of those posts about unfair RNG stem from projecting monsters, as far I as I have experienced

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therefore

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I think the nerf to them would make everyone happy

verbal edge
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which means than they have only one counter

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that should be fixed

chrome flame
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A few people have been asking for champions to be nerfed, yeah xd

verbal edge
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and not trying to listed to vague and unnecessary demands to "reduce RNG"

slow lance
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Is it really vague though if I've fully explained what I mean with "reducing RNG" with multiple in game examples?

verbal edge
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And sometimes extend this to challenges

lime island
chrome flame
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That's supernewb, isn't it?

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Also I uh... don't think that's a good argument. I mean, you simply posted an anecdote of someone saying "no it doesn't"

lime island
slow lance
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I'll have to check out his docs

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See what kind of god like advice he has

lime island
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He upgrades thrown weapons I've heard. And you always get those

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He really likes wands

sharp frost