but finesse i feel like is sitll a bit niche
#rw ttrpg thread
hushed bane
finesse is like hand-eye coordination, more dextrous stuff
lockpicking
crafting
taking spears out of bodies
very precise actions
regal mulch
maybe call it precision then?
hushed bane
possibly?
regal mulch
also we should clarfiy these on the weapons stat block then
regal mulch
say a point blank attack would be a muscle, then a ranged attack is throwing
oh fair
hushed bane
say a point blank attack would be a muscle, then a ranged attack is throwing
DM decides that anyay
regal mulch
ah ok
hushed bane
in fact maybe
we get rid of throwing and make it precision, which includes throwing spears
then change throwing to something else
regal mulch
to what?
hushed bane
idk
regal mulch
i think its fine the way it is unless we come up with a replacement
however i do want some help on a spearmaster adaptation
i dont like the way its written, the explanation for why you can do it, and the balance might be off
i like the concept
but all that stuff is a bit unpolished
Hmm.
Honestly, every diet being able to eat it is incorrect. From how it has to be produced, Monk and Saint definitely couldn't eat it.
It'd be entirely meat.
No matter what form it comes in, the nutrition is meat based.
that is fair but the rest idk it needs to be reworked
the expalanation and the amount it takes and gives
If you think the balance is off, raise the pips required to produce.
yeah thats what i was thinkin g
@hushed bane what do you think
is it balanced or too strong
hushed bane
i think it works
regal mulch
I do think it's a bit too op with pip required. Spear can get a lot of food out of creatures.
hushed bane
sacrificing your own food is a big deal though
regal mulch
True
hushed bane
and there might not always be creatures around
regal mulch
Fair
In that aspect, yeah the balance is okay.
i do want to rewrite the explanation in particular
hushed bane
Honestly, every diet being able to eat it is incorrect. From how it has to be pr...
also whilst this is realistic, mechanically it just works better to keep it edible for all slugcats
alpine kelp
hello
hushed bane
hihi
regal mulch
hey
It may be op with Spear's reserve pips being so high.
oh that is true
hm
maybe make it cost 3?
That's 5 free pips and spear can still sleep just fine.
So either raise cost or lower pips.
we cant lower food pips because itd be inconsistent
So raise cost.
alpine kelp
what are we currently discussing?
regal mulch
3 would make it only 3 pips while still being able to sleep. More balanced that 5.
Spear's ability.
regal mulch
i dont like the way its written, the explanation for why you can do it, and the ...
this
i want the same concept but a full rewrite of how its done
the flavor text
and to change the name
anyone have ideas
@hushed bane can you help me rewrite the flavor text and name (and possibly description)
alpine kelp
is there any specific thing that you want suggestions on
(not about the spearmaster thing necessarily, just in general)
alpine kelp
artificer's negative trait is animosity with the scavengers i believe (at least ingame)
regal mulch
we cant add that here for reasons ive explained
alpine kelp
ok so i should just make something up then?
regal mulch
yeah
alpine kelp
i'm not really seeing negative features on any of the other slugcats
why are they SPECIFICALLY only on the msc slugcats? is it a balancing thing?
regal mulch
they do have negative features
they just have names already
its the second species feature for every slugcat
example
from monk
alpine kelp
ok, it might be helpful to label that as "Negative Features" on every slugcat for the time being for consistency's sake
regal mulch
i think its fine without
alpine kelp
all right, let me check the other slugcats then
hushed bane
<@447340800322306049> can you help me rewrite the flavor text and name (and poss...
ye sure hold on
alpine kelp
i think the name should be "Intravenous Therapy" for the spearmaster one (it's transferring nutrients through liquid like an IV drip with its spears is what i imagine)
regal mulch
that actually seems neat
i can write that in
idea
costs 2 food pips, but it does 2 damage
alpine kelp
the artificer disadvantage should be that they have disadvantage to their explosive ability in wet/muddy conditions
regal mulch
how would you explain that happening
upbeat temple
That isn't really a downside tho. That's like saying I can fly, but my weakness is I can only fly fifteen feet up. There is no weakness, your still better than the average
regal mulch
you have to compare it to the other slugcats downsides
upbeat temple
Why the herbivory for monk? Correct me if im wrong, but monk can eat meat in game
alpine kelp
ok artificer disadvantage… tbh i don’t really know
regal mulch
@hushed bane what about 2 food pip cost but it does 1/2 damage
for spearmaster transfer
upbeat temple
OH IDEA, perhaps something related to how Artificer is only interested in explosives?
regal mulch
go on
upbeat temple
Something as simple as decreased comprehension for actions unrelated to booom boom
regal mulch
i think arti dosent need advantage when making explosives though
already have a lot of things
arti is almost done, need to add something propulsion based in the 1st adaptation
upbeat temple
Should spearmaster and artificer not also have reduced blessings? Like hunter?
regal mulch
nah
i do have an idea
@hushed bane interesting idea to tie karma and damage together
saint can have attack that deals damage equal to your current karma level
costing 1 blessing
regal mulch
anyone have ideas for a spearmaster adaptation
upbeat temple
Grappling?
upbeat temple
ye
regal mulch
nope
upbeat temple
like harpoon style
regal mulch
thats saints thing
alpine kelp
spearmaster adaptation could be uhhh idk
they gain bone claws that give them a close-quarters unarmed combat option? i personally think that's too close to hunter's adaptation
regal mulch
it is far too close
alpine kelp
how about an adaptation that basically causes the bone growths to spread over other parts of the body, acting as a natural defense?
regal mulch
what would it do
alpine kelp
uhh let me think
regal mulch
also character progression is currently this but i think we should change it
into this
alpine kelp
should karmic attunemnt unlock the second species adaptation or would that be too strong
regal mulch
we dont know about that yet
alpine kelp
by "unlock" i mean have two at once, not that you're gated to using one until you reach level 10 on a species and restart with a new one
regal mulch
ik you meant that
but still thats a whole new mechanic we would need to discuss
mostly done now
regal mulch
arti could not be able to use the self explosion middair to propel themsleves unelss they get the self explosion adaptation
regal mulch
arti is done now
i have an idea for a spearmaster adaptation
you can "detonate" spears in a creature, with each spear dealing 1 damage for every one of spearmasters spears imbeded in a creature
so 1 spear is 1 damage 1 time
2 spears is 2 damage 2 times
3 spears is 3 damage 3 times
but it costs an action to do that
regal mulch
costing 1 blessing
Maybe loosely scale the blessings with the karma lvl. 1 blessing for guaranteed 10 damage is kind of strong for a slugcat who should probably have higher starting blessings like Monk.
So like it's 1 blessing for 1-3 karma, 2 for 4-6, 3 for 7-9, 4 for 10.
Or however else you would want to do it.
regal mulch
So it scales 1, 4, 9?
yes
regal mulch
So like it's 1 blessing for 1-3 karma, 2 for 4-6, 3 for 7-9, 4 for 10.
i feel like that scales a bit too much
maybe 2 for 1-5 and 3 for 5-10
since it does depend on your max karma so i think its balanced
@regal mulch @alpine kelp ok i have an idea but i want your input on it first
alpine kelp
yup, i'm here
regal mulch
ok so
you can spend an action to "detonate" spears in a creature, each dealing 2 damage
if you detonate 3 in 1 creature you regen 1 or 1d4 hp
Not sure how you'd explain how that works, but it's an interesting idea.
i could
alpine kelp
how does this "remote detonation" work? does spearmaster have telekinesis or something?
regal mulch
severing the connection in a certain way deals additional damage and trasmits a minor amount of blood back to spearmaster
Sucks so hard the spear shatters.
alpine kelp
personally i think that IF THE BONES ARE STILL CONNECTED it would cause spearmaster to bleed out
regal mulch
well they dont in game
but they still give food back
so theyre still connected somewhat
i believe it works
alpine kelp
im saying if the bones shattered spearmaster would bleed out
regal mulch
the spears arent bone though
alpine kelp
im not opposed to the idea necessarily but uhhh
regal mulch
unless they are
alpine kelp
then what are they autumn
they've got to be sturdy enough to not break when climbed on
regal mulch
If the spears disconnect at the tail, not the spear, it wouldn't harm him.
uh
honestly we could ask minki
theyre the dev so
dont want to annoy them about spearmaster every day though
for the ttrpg
alpine kelp
i think i might ask them
regal mulch
ping them then
alpine kelp
let me check their status first
ehhhh... i dont really want to bother them
they aren't ACTIVELY chatting by any means
im not SUPER opposed to the spear detonation thing
i just think that it doesn't necessarily make sense, and i would like to continue brainstorming
maybe we could have some grape-related ability because Spearmaster was originally Grapecat?
regal mulch
We'll go with the exploding spears for now, and if you come up with something better we'll switch it.
explain that more
Bluefruit is kinda grape like. Maybe Spear can sniff them out especially good, idk.
alpine kelp
basically the old 1.01 Grapecat mod was the original incarnation of spearmaster before MSC was a thing
regal mulch
Bluefruit is kinda grape like. Maybe Spear can sniff them out especially good, i...
far too niche
alpine kelp
personally though id like to stick with "bony" abilities for now
regal mulch
Bone armor.
alpine kelp
that's sort of what i suggested earlier
alpine kelp
basically a permanent "spiky" covering that serves as natural protection
regal mulch
are they both good or nah
and are their two adaptations balanced against one another
alpine kelp
i REALLY think we need playtesting to figure that out
right now i think we're just guessing to see what might work
i don't even think we've designed a single combat encounter
regal mulch
"Intravenous Therapy: I'm going to stab you and insert food into your blood, hold still." Lol
alpine kelp
i mean that's basically how an IV drip works
regal mulch
Yeah, ik.
yeah i like that
1d4 - Finesse
Just the thought of spear purposely stabbing his friend is amusing to me.
it can actually do up to 7 damage
regal mulch
1d4 - Finesse
Question, would modifiers apply?
yes
Here's an idea. Since finesse allows you a steadier hand, negative finesse should add damage while positive should remove damage to a minimum of 1.
most abilties cost food pips to activate so its hard to make it do 0 damage
yeah
thats what it does
Kk
3 is 1,0,0,0
-3 is 4,5,6,7
Cool.
spearmaster has 0 finesse by default with 5 stat improvements so
big investment to get 0 damage 75% of the time
I am finally home, so I can put more time into speculation
Also
hm
had a question about rites
Would you have to pick what rites you have available to you, or can you just use any of them whenever as long as you have the blessings?
any of the default ones
some species and adaptations give special ones though
The default ones was where my question was pointed.
oh
you can use all of them
Mkay
any more questions or ideas
Not atm
btw when we finish the 10 slugcats and character creation segment
would you be fine making a character for each of them
and fully reviewing all of them
then ranking them and their adaptations
I'm probably not the best person for that, but sure, I'll give my input on it as well.
I just remembered that there was a talk about whether Arti had an aversion to water. If we want to maybe change his negative feature to that, I can check what it is in-game. Launched it to see if he did, and it says it's hazardous. Don't know by how much yet tho.
go in it then
water as arti
Working on it.
Gotta get water first
Okay, literal insta-death.
Hazardous is correct. Lmao
That's not good for the ttrpg, but it may be a decent idea to make him take damage in water.
wait seriously
Yup
waited for the water to rise from rain. After about a second of being in it I just died.
I will test again to confirm.
disadvantage on everything when in water
also spearmaster can prey on any creature
so batflies are on the table
id include a "small creatures give 1 food pip large give 2"
Over using Arti's explosive ability will kill you.
Okay, waiting for the rain again.
Also I can test if spear gets food from spearing batflies if you want.
it does already
1 damage when used to propel yourself
If you submerge in water as Arti you die. You can swim on top, but if you go under you're dead.
or should combat explosions damage you too
Batflies are on the table.
ok so what we have to do tommorow
Anything else you want me to check while I'm on here?
to do:
add disadvantage when in water to artipossibly edit spearmasters rupture adaptation- add a dming section
spearmaster can eat small creatures for 1 food pip but still no fruitallow rites to be casted while doing another actionremove comma from "applied to your action, based on a player character’s"change what you can eat to "By default, players are only able to gain sustenance from plants, small creatures, and eggs.change rites section to base rites- possibly remove or change permanent injuries
rework modifier system
can you like
rank all the slugcats currently
for how strong they are
Of what we have done so far?
uh
the main 3
nightcat
arti
spearmaster
Sure.
Gourm can pull karma flowers from his void stomach. That's kinda op.
what
As long as Gourm doesn't have anything stored in his mouth you can infinitely pull stuff out of it. I wanted to see what he could pull. I've gotten debris, bomb, pearl, karma flower, mushroom, vulture grub, and vulture mask so far.
molten birch
hi how are things going in here!
regal mulch
great
molten birch
good to hear
regal mulch
could you also rank the slugcats we have so far
the main 3, nightcat, arti, and spearmaster
molten birch
mm rank how? like on a scale of 1-10 or
regal mulch
read them and rank them
molten birch
how much i like them
regal mulch
compared to each and on a scale of 1-10
Have also pulled bubblefruit, so infinite food while near water.
and be unbiased about it just like
molten birch
alright on it
regal mulch
how strong they are
regal mulch
As long as Gourm doesn't have anything stored in his mouth you can infinitely pu...
is this in game
Yeah
we arent adding that
Wasn't a suggestion, I was just saying that he's like really op.
molten birch
how strong they are
so rating them on a scale of 1-10 based on how strong they are?
regal mulch
yes
molten birch
alrighty i can do that
regal mulch
Maybe he has an ability to use blessings to pull a random, low-tier object.
wait werent you ranking the slugcats foxy
I will, I wanted to check out gourms stuff while I was still on the game since his was the last I wasn't sure the extent of.
WAIT ONE THING
So far gourm seems to be able to pull anything but spears and stuff that is directly food like bluefruit.
can arti eat lizards and big creatures
Hmmmm
i need that tested
Oh in-game?
and can spearmaster eat batflies/fruit through spears
Kay
Spear can eat batflies, I confirmed that. not fruit tho.
I'll switch and go kill something with Arti for you.
thanks
See it's useful I had this downloaded and remembered about it. Lol
gourmands diet might want to be tested too
Now of course some things might change with DP, but it's a start.
I will also test gourm for you.
riv and saint im already sure about
though can saint eat batflies/centipedes
and can riv eat big creatures
I do not believe saint can eat batflies, but I will check.
regal mulch
send it
molten birch
surv: 6/10, pretty balanced imo so a pretty even score
monk: 5/10, slightly less than surv because monk's a weak boy in strength but still gets points because of his funky karma stuff! very good so that one gets a pretty balanced score to
hunter: 8/10, hunter's pretty strong! lines up pretty accurately with how he is in game so i'd give this a good score
night: 7/10, bit weaker than hunter but only Slightly, making it pretty balanced with the downsides it has to
arti: 9/10, stronger than hunter because of the explosives ! dont know much regarding its physical strength but i'd say they're most likely pretty similar in strength
spear: 9.5/10, strong boy! gave him a half a point because of his spear rupturing business which is a very cool ability to give to him!
this would make spearmaster, artificer, and hunter the strongest slugs so far, with nightcat, surv, and monk being 4th, 5th, and 6th strongest respectively
regal mulch
do you think monk is still viable compared to spearmaster
molten birch
yeah! they're different builds so i would say so
regal mulch
anything i could do to make them more viable?
molten birch
monk is as you said more of a spellcaster/magic wielder so they're pretty different lol
regal mulch
note they have 15-21 blessings
molten birch
i think they're good as they are! if you wanted to change something tho thats up to you
regal mulch
i do like the idea of being able to use a rite while doing a non rite attack
could be really usefu
i like that idea
molten birch
if you like it i see no reason to not implement it, if it works well and isnt too op :)
regal mulch
saint being completely unable to use weapons may present a problem
how will it kill stuff if it has no blessings
regal mulch
surv: 6/10, pretty balanced imo so a pretty even score
monk: 5/10, slightly less...
btw is this based on how strong they are or how much you like them
molten birch
how strong they are!
regal mulch
ah ok
should i nerf arti a bit?
i think spearmaster is fine because well
they dont do more damage then a normal slugcat for the most part
they just have infinite spears
hunter has higher damage than spearmaster
should i nerf arti though
they will have disadvantage in water soon though
molten birch
mmm i think arti's good! their strength comes at a cost (the amount of food pips, -2 to allure and taming, and their water weakness) so i think it's balanced
you might want to get another opinion tho if ur that unsure about it!
molten birch
regal mulch
10 people rank the 10 and make 1 level 10 build for each
molten birch
sounds good!
regal mulch
Riv, Arti, and Gourm can not eat large creatures. Saint cannot eat batflies, if you try it actually knocks Saint out for a moment.
ok thank you
Np
Anything else you want me to test before I get started on checking the balancing?
nope
Alright.
Night through Spear correct?
yep
except gourd
Ye
verbal grove
how would distracting lizards work?
regal mulch
wdym
verbal grove
would you like, just use a throw action to get the attention of a lizard?
regal mulch
with what
depends on the lizard
maybe throwing another creature in a way
monks unique rite
throwing something
etc
So question.
yeah
KARMA is split into 2 per letter. How would the starting stats affect each other?
For example, Spear has +2 muscle. Inside that he has +2 throwing.
I'm assuming the +2 for muscle would only come into play if the subcategories were not being used for the action?
yep
Kk, just making sure.
the main stat and substat dont affect eachother
Kk
its just neat to categorize them
and we get to keep the KARMA acronym
anyways hows the ranking going
Rewrote it in simpler form so I could better look at it. Deciding my ranking now, I just wanted to make sure I was understanding that first.
Another question. Does pounce give Nightcat +2 agi, or does it cancel out his -2 and give him 0.
cancels out and gives 0
Kk
i might even increase it to +3
regal mulch
I think I'll give Nightcat 8/10. Stealth is very useful, and lore wise his flash would be a great counter to light sensitive creatures(spiders and miros) making them a valuable asset to the team.
Arti is a 9/10. The AOE capabilities of his explosions would heavily benefit the group if they're being overrun. And the ability to create and distribute grenades could be very handy.
Spear is a 10/10. Consistent ranged attacks, and constant food in combat joined with his ability to feed others makes him a must have in any party.
the other 3?
Want the other 3 too? Kay
Survivor is a 5/10. Basic boyo with an affinity to dealing with scavs due to their ability to make pearls.
Monk is a 6/10. Their high aptitude toward karmic forces makes them a great support class with their utility of rites.
Hunter is a 7/10. Being a highly combat focused slugcat, they are great for dealing with threats and protecting the group. Their necessity to kill larger prey however can lead the group into unnecessary conflict.
And I'm going to raise Nightcat to 8/10.
should we make survivor and monk stronger?
note monk can cast a rite while throwing something else
rites can be casted for free while preforming another action
regal mulch
hi emerald
regal mulch
could you possibly rate the 6 slugcats we have so far as well
survivor monk hunter nightcat arti spearmaster
Since we have 10 slugs rn, I think I'll keep them all assigned to individual numbers when comparing them to each other.
However balance wise, I do think that Spear is a little unbalanced in the right scenario, but only in the right scenario. The others are pretty well balanced.
note arti has an additonal downside not listed yet
dark rain
whats that
regal mulch
disadvantage on everything while in water
dark rain
cause i was gonna make an arti
regal mulch
like literally
dark rain
actually i kinda want to make hoonter
regal mulch
if they fully submerged theyre dead
but yeah look over the 6 so far and tell me how balanced they are
If Spear is in a position to repeatedly guarantee hits on a creature with a large health pool, he could easily feed himself and the group granted he makes low damage roles to keep landing hits.
im hearing a lot of spearmaster being too strong
regal mulch
If Spear is in a position to repeatedly guarantee hits on a creature with a larg...
that requires bad luck
regal mulch
im hearing a lot of spearmaster being too strong
hunter does more damage than them and can crit/gain bonuses at low health along with a unarmed strike bonus
Spear is pretty balanced outside of those types of scenarios.
spearmaster dosent have any bonus damage besides the rupture
I think maybe make the spears cost pips?
which is only half a spear as an action every 3 turns
nope
dark rain
theyre all balanced imo
regal mulch
That would balance out his basically infinite food loop.
regal mulch
wdym "balanced"
regal mulch
you need to note that monk can use rites while doing another action
With what we have currently, Monk is definitely the weakest, but once we have more rites for them to perform they'll be much stronger.
regal mulch
i kind of want to change that downside
itll make monk and saint too simillar
what else could their downside be besides being a herbivore
regal mulch
I mean, Saint CANT do dmg in game, are we carrying that over?
dark rain
do not do this
regal mulch
why
dark rain
its something you could solve with a random table p easily
otherwise its another thing for the GM to worry about
regal mulch
we had that as an idea but an injury fitting the situation works better
dark rain
you generally shouldnt leave consequences up to gm fiat
regal mulch
Then have a basic list for them to use.
like pick between the injuries depending on death type
that could work
So instead of the dm deciding, it's a set list depending on cause.
dark rain
the way i use tables for injuries is usually that i have them roll first and then describe what the hit that takes them out does
regal mulch
And maybe not being able to have all of them at once. Lmao
or maybe just remove permanent injuries?
i feel like they might not be needed
They're not necessary, but it does add an incentive not to die outside of losing Karma.
dark rain
depends on how punishing you want your consequence-reward structure to be
they dont have to be permanent permanent
permanent permanent isnt very fun tbh
cause youre stuck with a char that is suboptimal
regal mulch
its not permanent permanet
dark rain
which might be fine for some people but i usually dont enjoy it
regal mulch
theres way to heal it
regal mulch
probably iterators and crafting certain things
Another idea. If they die with an injury, they lose the injury they had and instead obtain a new injury based off the new death.
ooooo
i like it
Or refresh the injury if they died the same way
only one injury at a time
dark rain
couldnt you just farm for the least bad injury
for ur char
cause some will naturally be worse for some characters
regal mulch
And again, a list of injuries so the dm doesn't accidentally maim a character too badly.
dying makes you reset food pips to start of cycle, drop all items, and lose 1 karma per death
so it wouldnt be a good idea
dark rain
yeah but after youve already died then that doesnt matter
regal mulch
it does
dark rain
if one of you dies, more of you probably will have
regal mulch
1 karma loss each death
dark rain
youll usually have dropped 2 karma
regal mulch
also like
dark rain
idk it feels abuseable
dark rain
if you want to make dying a bad idea having injuries stack is prob the best way to do that
dark rain
we can trust people to not abuse that
you cannot
regal mulch
Okay, maybe something like 2 injuries. Just not every injury at once. Lol
hm
injuries reset end of cycle
nah
Also, I would like to reinstate my idea of a rite to revive a slugcat in order to not lose Karma.
i want one injury at a time persisting through cycles
regal mulch
Also, I would like to reinstate my idea of a rite to revive a slugcat in order t...
would be expensive
8 blessings imo
dark rain
its also not a great idea to design a game around "we can trust the players not to exploit this"
regal mulch
That's my thought, but just something that could be useful.
mostly good for monk healer as they get -2 blessings on big spells
Mhmm
regal mulch
its also not a great idea to design a game around "we can trust the players not ...
then how do we prevent it
i like the idea of 1 injury at a time
dark rain
why
regal mulch
Give us your idea on balancing this problem Emerald.
prevents you from needing to keep track of too much and dosent make you too weak
or maybe 2 at a time
dark rain
stack injuries and make repairing them something you have to go a bit out of the way for but not too bad
dark rain
and the GM is free to tweak how injuries can be repaired
so they can adjust the difficulty a bit for themselves depending on the type of game they want to run
regal mulch
stack injuries and make repairing them something you have to go a bit out of the...
Something like falling to death gives you a broken leg, -2 to agility, but you can fix it by making a splint?
maybe injuries need a rework as a whole
dark rain
youd need a splint and plenty of rest
dark rain
so the solution might be finding a safe place to rest for a long time
regal mulch
also emerald does spearmaster seem too strong
dark rain
not really
regal mulch
anything that seems particularly overpowered
dark rain
maybe up the damage on the baby bird feeding thing
regal mulch
such as certain combos or things alone
regal mulch
maybe up the damage on the baby bird feeding thing
to what
and it would be pretty hefty to spec into tolerance for that
you only get +5 skills points currently
maybe we should increase the amount you can get tbh
dark rain
how does character creation work
regal mulch
rn its selecting a species modifying the stats somewhat
and then picking your starting adaptation
regal mulch
probably a point buy system
dark rain
you should prob figure out how many points ppl are gonna have when ur making balance decisions
decide on that first
regal mulch
Spear puts all point into throwing to just fuck some shit up. Lol
dark rain
since thats a core mechanic
regal mulch
2 free points and you can do then freely edit stuff from there (however you cant increase or decrease stats edited by the species imo)
dark rain
why not
regal mulch
itd prevent you from literally deleting the downside
dark rain
but thats a choice you can make
you give up some points in something helpful to counter a downside
regal mulch
itd prevent you from literally deleting the downside
Yeah, but you'd gain less benefits doing that.
dark rain
its not a fantastic option but its a choice
regal mulch
i feel like we need more customization character wise at the start but like
species and starting adaptation
and some way to edit stats a bit
Put points into removing downsides and you have less to upgrade what you want, so it balances out.
also note to fully max everything out youd need 44 skills points after species is factored in
i want you to maybe have about
dark rain
i plan to do a hunter build that is decent at spells too so removing downsides is like my thing
regal mulch
a but less than a 5th of the total skill points
regal mulch
i plan to do a hunter build that is decent at spells too so removing downsides i...
you mean by getting more blessings and what not
What does a skill max out at?
dark rain
ye
regal mulch
if so theres an adaptation that gives +3 blessings
dark rain
hunter is only 1 down with the wheel flower adap
regal mulch
leaving you at -1
regal mulch
What does a skill max out at?
-3 and +3 stat wise
but it can be increased further by external modifiers such as buffs or gear
Kk
should we increase blessing amounts though
i feel like spellcasters might need more
or just like +4 blessings for every character
blessings are refunded on a failed cast though iirc
regal mulch
From my understanding of not wanting to allow the increase of species stats, you can only edit the 0s.
idk how stat increasing at character creation works
dark rain
that would be important to know lol
regal mulch
i feel like if you want to negate the downside yo do so over the course of the game instead
instead of at the very start
So no editing species stats off the bat. However, you may with level ups.
yeah
and you can completly negate the downsides at uh
level 7
dark rain
i feel like this is kinda suffering from a granularity issue
the range of -3 to +3 is very small for 2d8
regal mulch
should we go back to 2d6?
I would also like to mention that we will probably need to come back to this after creating the creatures so that we can make sure everything is still balanced.
we will ofc
lots of balancing will be done
dark rain
2d6 would help if you want to make a rules light system
alpine kelp
should simply roll 2d100
dark rain
if you want to increase the complexity you can add more species adaptations
regal mulch
should simply roll 2d100
Lmao
dark rain
and treat them like playbooks in dungeon world or apocalypse world
cause rn there are very few choices to make
regal mulch
idk there is a decent amount
dark rain
theres a few, adaptations are good
regal mulch
species, 5 stat increases, 4 adaptations, species adaptation
we could add more stat increases
maybe 10?
dark rain
but only getting 5 points to stats is pretty limiting
dark rain
tbh it would be nice if you could do more in character creation itself
so you have a good range of builds
regal mulch
how much more
regal mulch
what else could we add to character creation
dark rain
stat customization
regal mulch
outside of stat modification, a adaptation, and species
yeah we are already gonna add that in some way
but is there anything else we should add there
dark rain
i think having a good amount of control over stat customization would do the trick
maybe increase the mod range to +5?
regal mulch
how much control in your opinion
like what would you do
An idea. Survivor variant that has a lot of customization.
dark rain
thats more reasonable for 2d8
dark rain
i would say +5 is conservative actually
+6 or +7 would be my pick
but if you want to keep it lower then +5 might work better
regal mulch
youre meant to use external modifiers more
thats why its low
i could see +4 but +5 would be a bit too much imo
dark rain
like what would you do
its a bit complicated since you have 15 things to adjust
regal mulch
Give an example of adding external modifiers.
Curious what you have in mind.
survival instincts gives advantage and a +1 to a roll for 2 food pips
nightcat gets +2 agility after leaving camo
you can probably use a rite for a modifier or advantage
dark rain
with a +3 in a stat you have a 50-50 shot of hitting a 12
which is an average check
seems a little off
dark rain
for +5 its like a 30% success rate
regal mulch
yeah
regal mulch
we would need to test this heavily
dark rain
i dont think so
regal mulch
how about +4 there
dark rain
i think a 75% success rate for average checks is pretty low for max investment actually
+4 will be between the two
but i think +5 is a little too low already so
regal mulch
i think +5 is fine honestly
let me see +6 for average
Yeah, I'm feeling the increase to +5.
84%
dark rain
regal mulch
that will need us to adjust some values a bit if we do
dark rain
+6
regal mulch
and its currently
almost 2am
ok thats what i thouggt didnt want to get it wrong
yeah it wont be
but i think +5 would work best
dark rain
but you still have to consider that someone who is at the maximum possible skill (an expert) will still have a 25% (+5) or 15% (+6) chance of failing an average check
idk about you but i dont fail average dynamics tests and im no expert
regal mulch
idk 25% fail for an average seems fine
dark rain
for someone who is heavily invested into a tree?
regal mulch
especially since you have a lot of ways to get advantage and more modifiers
dark rain
like
regal mulch
i think what we should do is like
regal mulch
build all the modifiers around +5 but make the max +6
dark rain
and then they had a 25% chance to not beat like
a track and field student
in a 100m dash
that seems weird
regal mulch
as +6 should require heavy investment imo
wait we can probably just double most values
dark rain
i think +6 is too low for the DCs youre using tbh
you could move average to an 8 and then +5 would make sense
regal mulch
and a +6 does make sure an easy check is success
regal mulch
i think +6 is too low for the DCs youre using tbh
bleak should almost never be used
dark rain
something that is easy shouldnt be a check tbh
regal mulch
its for insanely hard stuff that requires a lot of prep
dark rain
just like
regal mulch
what would you rename them to
regal mulch
average, hard, very hard, bleak
regal mulch
i think that works
dark rain
its a 2d10 system with +11 max so theyre a bit higher
regal mulch
then use +5 and adjust modifiers a bit
dark rain
+11 is pretty much impossible to get though, its more like +9
unless you kneecap yourself
elsewhere
which is pretty comparable here
regal mulch
well theres meant to be a good amount of focus on using external buffs to help with tasks
so i think using like
regal mulch
1/3 of the roll range as a modifier works
dark rain
though i use advantage for it rather than +s
regal mulch
and i do think the tiny chance to fail an average check is fine
regal mulch
because thus is rain world and ive messed up literally everything
dark rain
having +5 max makes a little more sense for a system with 10 levels in which stat customization is important
too
dark rain
2 +1s so you can increase 2 if you want
regal mulch
i think +1 works better
dark rain
come up with some variations on it and ill make a few characters
regal mulch
ill get fizzys input see what they think
regal mulch
get character creation done (atleast what it is we write after)
dark rain
wasnt today or yesterday or the day before due to shenanigans
dark rain
np
regal mulch
Why I'm better for creative ideas than balancing. Lol
youve helped a lot already
thats important
dark rain
ye
regal mulch
ideas are very much necessary
we took like 2 days to make an arti downside
I'm glad to have done something.
anyways its late
im gonna sleep work on this tommorow
regal mulch
You guys going to go to sleep then?
regal mulch
to do:
- ~~add disadvantage when in water to arti~~
- ~~possibly edit spearmaste...
heres the to do list
and yeah
the list is long but most tasks are very short
Alright, sleep well.
hushed bane
<:artiwh:951914063905046559>
scrolling up, i think artificer's downside is way too punishing
IN FACT WAIT NO IT ISNT
THATS PERFECT I JUST READ IT WRONG LMAO
hushed bane
HIHHI!
oh wow that was late
i think i just took a nap without realising or something
im gonna go get a water and finish the gourmand
regal mulch
@hushed bane heya
regal mulch
oh right emerald suggested we change our modifier to +5
+3 dosent do enough
and change the check names to average/hard/very hard/bleak
regal mulch
@dark rain could you make 2 - 3 characters level 10 if you dont mind
+5 max modifier, double the stat increases/decreases for the species, stat increases are +2
6 free points at start then you can add a point if you remove one from there
try to minmax them
and ignore adaptations for now
hushed bane
oh right emerald suggested we change our modifier to +5
wait really?
hushed bane
sure!
regal mulch
just showing the math
2d8 + 3 chance
2d8 + 5 chance
second is much better imo
also i need your opinions on a few things
is this too strong for spearmaster or nah
oh fuck right should you be able to cast a rite as a free action when you do another action
regal mulch
@hushed bane ?
hushed bane
is this too strong for spearmaster or nah
nah it isn't too strong
rewards risking all your spears on one target
regal mulch
just wondering youre fine with answering why are you gone for long periods of time sometimes
regal mulch
to do:
- ~~add disadvantage when in water to arti~~
- ~~possibly edit spearmaste...
also i want to attempt to get all this done today
hushed bane
just wondering youre fine with answering why are you gone for long periods of ti...
busy usually
regal mulch
thats what i assumed
hushed bane
either art stuff or just running errands usually
ill probably be less busy soon, currently working on some art for someone atm
regal mulch
ah ok
but uh
should rites be able to be casted when you do another action?
basically make them free actions
hushed bane
sure!!
also as for the DMing section
idk what we'd put in there
feels kinda redundant
regal mulch
i feel like it might be a good idea still
these are the imporant 3 we need to talk about
we should rework permanent injuries
regal mulch
i think we should also rework monks negative trait
i dont want it to overlap with saint too much
any ideas
also how are these names
ok ive made the max modifier +5 now
however this might have made some stuff too strong
notably monk
ok 2 things on to do list
dming section and permanent injuries rework
dark rain
enerkad
regal mulch
hi emerald
already updated the values
could you make those 2-3 characters for me
try to minimax them hard
stat increases are +2 and you have 6 free points at the start
can subtract points from other things at the start as well
level 10 character
dark rain
stat increases are +2 and you have 6 free points at the start
idk what this entails
where can I put the poinrs
can I subtract from other stats
regal mulch
you mean the main ones?
dark rain
yeah
regal mulch
oh uh
theyre basically the same as substats but substats fall under a main stat
treat them the same way point wise
dark rain
yeah but what do they do in game
the other ones are specific enough to have an application but idk what the general ones would do then
regal mulch
attempting to break something, close range attacks that you dont throw for, etc
basically any act of strength that dosent involve carrying or throwing something
theres examples and descriptions of each
dark rain
so you're getting more uses for the same amount of points investment?
their descriptions are p specific tho
they're basically like
substats but main
hushed bane
AAA BACK ILL TRY NOT TO LEAVE ABRUPTLY THIS TIME
dark rain
leaves abruptly
dark rain
🌛
hushed bane
also how are these names
ooo
dark rain
+5 max modifier, double the stat increases/decreases for the species, stat incre...
you def shouldn't double the starting bonuses
that doesn't leave much room for character advancement
hushed bane
yeah it should just be an increase in the range
regal mulch
i would also increase the total amount of points
but i think +3/-3 and +3/+1/-3 works
or maybe
+3/-3 +4/+1/-3
dark rain
I would stick with +2 or +1
hushed bane
gives you more room to grow like emerald said
dark rain
so there's more room for customization later
regal mulch
ok
i do still think the main substat should be a like
+3 instead of +2
as its meant to be something youre good in alreadyt
hushed bane
ehh
hushed bane
i mean level 2 is stat improvement anyway
dark rain
during char creation
regal mulch
also we may need to nerf these with +5 will being max now
i already nerfed monks to 1d4 from 2d4
1d6 might be better but thats a pretty easy 11 damage for only 2 blessings
which i mean
spellcaster thats actually fine
hushed bane
i mean it's a monk-specific spell
for any other slugcat i'd say that's OP but this is the monk
regal mulch
so 1d6 it is
hushed bane
gourmand downside?
regal mulch
idk but speaking of downsides
i want to change monks spear downside
its gonna be too simillar to saint
hushed bane
nah, since monk deals less damage whilst saint just can't use spears
so we should instead give the saint a few consistent & damaging karma spells in each adaptation
i do have one idea
regal mulch
say it
hushed bane
spell that puts spooky ghost spikes on the saint's tongue - allowing it to both grip onto surfaces easier and use its tongue as a harpoon kinda
regal mulch
and use it as an attack i assume?
hushed bane
mhm
hushed bane
ooo that could work
maybe one adaptation that adds a smaller but consistent attacking spell but focuses more on mobility with the froggy tongue
and another that focuses on more damage output and support
regal mulch
we need saint to have a lot of ways to damage stuff without normal weapons
hushed bane
mhm
regal mulch
so they always need to have some sort of attack
and i was thinking
saint is a consistent rite user
monk has high burst damage
hushed bane
the projectile thing from the MSC beta?
hushed bane
YOOOOOOOOOO
i love it
oh hold on i gotta brb for a sec
I promise it'll be less than an hour
regal mulch
thats fine
i think monks second adaptation shouldnt be healing
make them a burst damage dealer
4d8 + Will for 8 (6 due to reduction) blessings
its slightly higher damage than casting the other one 3 times
4d8 + 5 for 6 blessings
3(1d6 +5) for 6 blessings (note that this could be spread out between creatures instead)
holy shit i just realized a solution to monk and saints issue with running out of blessings
+1 blessing for every 2-3 creatures the party kills
dark rain
so
regal mulch
as an adaptation for every slugcat or monk and saint
dark rain
kinda sucks that i couldnt get anything to 5 but oh well
regal mulch
+1 blessing for every 2-3 creatures the party kills
what do you think about this though
dark rain
dunno
regal mulch
should it be an adaptation any species can get or just monk and saint
dark rain
youre only gonna proc that like
3 times a session max
since this combat system is gonna take a while
regal mulch
3 times a session max
not too long theres like 3 things for each character a time max
a normal attack, ability, and rite
and odds are you only use 1-2 a turn
regal mulch
yeah ik i mean in comparision to other stuff
its probably somewhere around the middle time wise for combat
dark rain
depends on the GM
regal mulch
well yeah ofc
dark rain
if you have a new GM this would be on the long side due to them having to make way more decisions than in a normal combat system
for a GM thats used to it it would probably be around as quick as 5e combat
so like
an hour for most encounters
regal mulch
itll also depend on the encounter size a lot
dark rain
it depends more on the creatures youre using
regal mulch
2 pink lizards are gonna be a lot shorter than say 2 vultures
encounter size and creatures
dark rain
i ran a combat in amg last session and it took 40 minutes despite having like 30 combatants
regal mulch
like 2 pink lizards thats maybe 20-30 minutes
dark rain
even though ive run combats with less than 10 that took 1 1/2 hours
regal mulch
we should run a mock combat encounter sometime
dark rain
i get this w/ the +4s
regal mulch
i get this w/ the +4s
ok that seems imbalanced
dark rain
theres a greater range
dark rain
and i was able to actually get a character to +5
regal mulch
right we need to make a character sheet sometime
what do you think though
the smaller or bigger values
which should we use
or somewhere inbetween
regal mulch
i mean you can
but i feel like most people wont minmax that hard as itll really hurt outside of combat
dark rain
how so
regal mulch
no i meant you can do that