rw ttrpg thread

[hushed bane]

the DM should rp the aggression

[regal mulch]

suggested range

[hushed bane]

it shouldn't be a mechanic

[regal mulch]

have a range as a suggestion but not set in stone

[dark rain]

you could def use that as a mechanic but I feel that that delineates combat from noncombat

[hushed bane]

it's should just be a little blurb in the lizard's statblock that goes "hey, red lizards are more aggressive and will take more opportunities to attack!"

[regal mulch]

that works too

[hushed bane]

because then it's a character the DM is playing

[regal mulch]

like a "aggression" segment for every enemy

[hushed bane]

and they're free to improv on it and it's more organic and stuff

[regal mulch]

yeah that makes it more interesting

for both ends

[hushed bane]

okok i forgot one thing about momentum

which idk if i wanna include in this system but it is a fun way to conclude or resolve conflict

at +3 or -3 you can make a Venture
you reset all your momentum back to 0 and both you and your opponent make actions against each other
for example, hunter decides to make a Venture and stab a red centipede with their spear, using Muscle
centipede attempts to shield it with their carapace using Resistance
if your roll is higher than the opponent's it succeeds and theirs loses, no matter if they would have succeeded or not - hunter stabs centipede easily
if it's lower (changing this from the base rules to something Way more punishing because this is rain world), the opposite happens and they're immediately able to counter - centipede blocks and immediately tries an electric shock

[regal mulch]

i dont think we need that

[hushed bane]

yeah i know, it's just a feature of that combat system that i wanted to contemplate adding

[regal mulch]

as i think its better to have it so your roll is higher you succeed

[hushed bane]

thing is then that makes it so stat dumping is actually better

[regal mulch]

oh true

[hushed bane]

and that some creatures with very high stats are just straight up OP against you

[regal mulch]

i think momentum is fine

venture dont think we need it

[hushed bane]

yeahh

[regal mulch]

and is negative momentum even bad

[hushed bane]

it's only punishing if you can't think on your feet

it's just as good as positive momentum

which i think is important

[regal mulch]

i think you should write all that down again and ill put it in the rules section of the doc

wait before that

i think we should finish monks healing spell

[hushed bane]

negative momentum doesn't represent an overall loss, but a shift in the pace of the battle

[regal mulch]

so negative momentum is more youre on the defensive while the opposite is true for positive?

[hushed bane]

yeah

prediction is an overtly offensive mechanic whilst feinting is defensive

we gotta rename momentum maybe

[regal mulch]

but anyways i think monks healing spell should be 1d4 + 2 health for three blessings, and you can revive a teammate for 3x the cost (reduced to 7 by the adaptation)

renaming it is a good idea

[hushed bane]

something that fits more with rain world

[regal mulch]

we can figure names out later

what it does is more important

[hushed bane]

ye

[regal mulch]

might want to change this to 1d4 + 3 actually

otherwise it might be better to just let a teammate die then revive them

[hushed bane]

i think the revive should be separate

[regal mulch]

hm

well yeah

just 1d4 + Knowledge healing?

[hushed bane]

also this for a revive spell

or you place a shield on someone that, if they die, it activates and they don't lose anything
thing is it has to be done before combat
and only lasts for one cycle
so you're basically betting on whether they die or not

[hushed bane]

ye that works

[regal mulch]

becuase knowledge is supportive, will is offensive and defensive, and allure is for distractions and resisting them

[hushed bane]

it shouldn't be as good as recovery dice but it should be cheap to offset that

[hushed bane]

and then muscle is just reserved for actual attacks

[regal mulch]

yeah

well i dont think you need to roll to see if you take damage or not

you would roll to dodge or roll to intercept the attack

anyways uh

spells that use 5 or more blessings have cost reduced by 1 or spells that use 6 or more have cost reduced by 2

as its basically letting you use the really big spells more

[hushed bane]

yeah, it's only if you fail a dodge

[regal mulch]

so yeah its redundant

you either get hit or you dont

[hushed bane]

the latter, should be better for bigger

[regal mulch]

yeah

[hushed bane]

it's just the actual damage you take is determined by the weapon

[regal mulch]

it also allows the healer to become more interesting as you could also spec into trying to use massive damage spells that cost a lot

[dark rain]

how does m agic work

[regal mulch]

uses blessings

[hushed bane]

and in fact you don't even have to attack with a damaging weapon
an "attack action" could just be throwing a spore puff or a flashbang

[regal mulch]

you have 4-12

monk has +3 by default and can get +3 through an adaptation

[hushed bane]

i wanted a reward for levelling and made weird karma magic a thing

[dark rain]

so MP basically

[hushed bane]

there's a large pool of spells that all slugcats can cast

YEah

[regal mulch]

yeah but its Rain World™️

[hushed bane]

but some slugcats are better at casting than others

[dark rain]

ye

[regal mulch]

yeah you start with a lot of spells anyone can use

[hushed bane]

(saint & monk)

[regal mulch]

some slugcats have unique spells

and some are adaptation only

[hushed bane]

and some extra level up perks offer-

yeah

adaptations are a stand in for the class feature thing D&D uses

[regal mulch]

call the healing spell Mend?

[hushed bane]

yeah that works

except there's no classes, only races

[dark rain]

are they singular effects or more freeform

[hushed bane]

depends on the type of spell

the former is probably if it does damage

damaging spells are gonna be singular set effects for sure

the latter is anything else really

[regal mulch]

monk done

[dark rain]

so the d&d method of spell design

[hushed bane]

oh and healing is more of a preset thing

[hushed bane]

Yeah

if it aint broke

(idk if it's broke actually)

(It might be)

[regal mulch]

there will be some spells that act different depending on the scenario

[dark rain]

depends on what broke means lol

[regal mulch]

like a distraction

in combat it probably is much less effective

but out of combat its gonna be a lot better

[hushed bane]

i'd say it's viable in combat

[regal mulch]

its good but not as good

[dark rain]

its not a bad way of designing spells but 5e's implementation is fairly poor imo

[regal mulch]

how so

[hushed bane]

yeah true

[dark rain]

spell slots are a weird system

you have far too many

[hushed bane]

oh yeah i hate spell slots

to the point where in most 5e games i run we end up just

[dark rain]

and 5e's spell design is generally pretty subpar

[hushed bane]

Ignoring spell limits

[regal mulch]

yeah

we do have spell limits here for how much you can cast

[hushed bane]

although that's still WIP

[regal mulch]

you cant get all spells either but youll have a good majority

[hushed bane]

my main idea is that you can't cast a spell more than once per session / cycle

[regal mulch]

even non spellcasters can use spells

[hushed bane]

but there's a lot to choose from

[regal mulch]

i think thats not the best idea as blessings already limit a lot

[dark rain]

why not just have blessings recover every cycle

[regal mulch]

they do

[dark rain]

and then have that limit spellcasting

there u go

[hushed bane]

OH TRUE

[regal mulch]

you have 20 max (12 from levels, 3 from monk feature, 3 from monk adaptation, 2 from an adaptation)

[dark rain]

mp systems are generally p good

[regal mulch]

the 3 spells rn are uh

[hushed bane]

should i post the levelling table

[dark rain]

i dont use one atm but they work

sure

[regal mulch]

2, 2, 3

blessing cost

you dont use them super often but they are still helpful

[regal mulch]

maybe an adaptation will allow you to regen them even without hibernating

[hushed bane]

(MAYBE i copied a FEW d&d aspects)

[regal mulch]

say a blessing for every creature you kill

[hushed bane]

Hollow knight

i like it

[dark rain]

why not just do 10 levels and have ur "other" category happen every level

matches the 10 karma thing

[regal mulch]

that could work

[hushed bane]

truee

[regal mulch]

theres 8 there rn

[hushed bane]

so levelling is less often?

[regal mulch]

maybe split some apart?

[dark rain]

depends on campaign length

[regal mulch]

well some levels dont even give a benefit

[dark rain]

idk how you gain levels so

[regal mulch]

these are identical

[dark rain]

"level up"

[hushed bane]

i usually just do milestones

[dark rain]

"you gained nothing"

[regal mulch]

going from 17 -> 18 changes nothing

[dark rain]

milestones work

[hushed bane]

Yeah that is true

[regal mulch]

yeah i think we should rework it

let me do it

i say max blessings at level 9/10 though

[hushed bane]

like what i tend to do in ttrpgs is get rid of xp and just level everyone up at the end of each session

[regal mulch]

to get spellcasting as a viable build faster

[hushed bane]

yeah

[dark rain]

i did a redesign of 5e where i crunched everything down into 10 levels and it works pretty well

[hushed bane]

because honestly i hate calculating xp stuff

[dark rain]

yeah fuck that shit

i run a leveless system atm

so i just give everyone 1 xp per session

[hushed bane]

i really wanna make one of those some day

leveless systems sound fun

[regal mulch]

hows this

[hushed bane]

this works!

[regal mulch]

racial adaptations are pretty big so i think level 3 works

or maybe level 2?

[dark rain]

u can take a look at mine if you want

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wUz2x1FBdA6az2-vNJUJ9ClqOtw5d_yeiPUBwL8h5oY/edit?usp=sharing

[hushed bane]

racial adaptations level 3

[dark rain]

its unfinished cause i keep adding stuff

[hushed bane]

okay im loving this wording

👍

THE MODIFIER FORMULA

[quartz gazelle]

greeble

[dark rain]

i tried to make it brief because i hate combing through text walls

[hushed bane]

THATS WAY BETTER THAN D&D AND WHAT WE'RE USING FOR S&S

[dark rain]

its literally 5e's modifiers

[regal mulch]

what is it

[hushed bane]

Oh

wait yeah it is

Holy shit

[dark rain]

except the rating isnt pointless

lol

[regal mulch]

whats the modifier formula theyre using

[hushed bane]

(it's 2am okay im running on low brain fumes)

[dark rain]

((Rating - 10) / 2) Rounded Down = Modifier.

so

5e

basically

[regal mulch]

is that for calculating our substats basically

yeah

i think what we have is fine though

[dark rain]

ye

im just Showing Off

[regal mulch]

you can choose to spec into general stuff, or into more specific stuff

[hushed bane]

yeahh

substats are just skills but usually you can use them way more often than in D&D since rain world is sorta just

there's no real society or anything so most ways of interacting with creatures are basic primal stuff

[regal mulch]

yeah

and we also have one for basically every aspect of the game

and you interact with all of it

[dark rain]

based skill centered system

[regal mulch]

the most niche are probably carrying, taming, and resistance

but even those all have good uses

carrying you can bring a whole bunc hof shit

taming you can center a whole build around that

resistance posion can become more common as we actually have health

[hushed bane]

i mean carrying is less niche than it sounds

[regal mulch]

yeah ik

even the more niche sounding ones are useful

[dark rain]

how does ur inventory system work

[hushed bane]

rain world probably

[regal mulch]

same as rain world

[hushed bane]

two hands

swallow

[regal mulch]

2 hand slots 1 mouth and a backspear

and possibly an adaptation to add onto that

like 2 extra mouth slots

[hushed bane]

i mean there aren't many items

[hushed bane]

Gourmand racial trait

they get hamster cheeks

[regal mulch]

i would also allow a like

thing to carry pearls or something

like a pouch

[hushed bane]

id say that's just something you can make in RP

[regal mulch]

yeah

i mean a full party can carry a lot anyways

[hushed bane]

you can make pockets and pouches sure as long as you're good at it

[dark rain]

what about backpacks and such

what the limit to that

[hushed bane]

probably carrying

[regal mulch]

maybe you could just make them if you have a good carrying and crafting skill

[hushed bane]

like if you stock it up with a bunch of heavy stuff your carrying stat becomes Important

[regal mulch]

its up to the dm what you can make via crafting

fuck it let them make a gun if they get high enough skills for it

[hushed bane]

i mean i do wanna add a little set of recipes

[regal mulch]

yeah we can

[hushed bane]

like explosive spears, Gourmand Cuisine, lamps

[regal mulch]

ok if a player reaches like +10 comprehension and +10 finesse i will allow them to make a gun

[hushed bane]

i think backpacks and encumbrance is just an RP thing mostly

[regal mulch]

carrying would also be like lifting stuff

and just moving stuff as well

[dark rain]

you could use an inventory slot system

where the number of items you can carry is limited by slots

[regal mulch]

thats what we are doing

its already there

you have your hand slots, mouth slots, and back slots

[dark rain]

and then modify the number w/ the carrying skill

[regal mulch]

nah

[hushed bane]

then maybe we DO have specified crafting recipes too

[regal mulch]

we thought about that but its not a good idea

[hushed bane]

so if one does craft a backpack, the slots are specified

[regal mulch]

i suggested that already

[hushed bane]

oh huh

[regal mulch]

the carrying skill giving extra slots

i dont think we need that

[hushed bane]

i'll test that

[regal mulch]

idk

carrying is already useful

[hushed bane]

now that i think about it though it does make a lot of sense

[regal mulch]

dont want to give one stat a bonus that isnt to rolls and what not

then all of them need that

[hushed bane]

yeah truee

[dark rain]

not necessarily

as long as the rest are useful enough

[hushed bane]

i think they're all equally useful

even resistance

[regal mulch]

theyre all useful

especially if you plan your build around them

hey fizzy

should your first non race specific adaptation be at level 5, 4, or 2

level 3 is the race on

this is it rn but it might be better to give a adaptation earlier

[hushed bane]

2 seems a little early but 4 and 5 seem a little late

4?

[regal mulch]

4 could work

[hushed bane]

im gonna head to bed now, i'll be back tomorrow to get stuff done though!

[regal mulch]

let me move it around a bit

and yeah tommorw will work

[hushed bane]

our main goal is getting the slugcats done

[regal mulch]

yep

i do want to throw one idea out there

as a spearmaster adaptation

[hushed bane]

i mean tomorrow i can probably try and do all the enemies

they probably require less balancing discussion

[regal mulch]

maybe every 3 food you get your whole team gets 1 food pip

[hushed bane]

ooo

i like it

[regal mulch]

anyways

goodnight

[dark rain]

gn

[regal mulch]

oh btw emerald

hows this stat distribution look

we tried to make sure its balanced

so every main stat apears twice as a +2 and twice as a -2

and each substat apears once as a +2, +1, and -2

if you disagree with any of them tell me

@vernal moat can you pin this

[vernal moat]

pim

[regal mulch]

thanks

[regal mulch]

oh right @dark rain what do you think

[dark rain]

uhhhhhh

makes sense

[regal mulch]

yeah

what each stat does is easy to understand right

can you explain what you think each means

[dark rain]

idk why nightcat has a penalty to agi while having a bonus to stealth

[regal mulch]

they are more focused on preparing ambushes

[dark rain]

ic

[regal mulch]

also because we needed a -2 agility somewhere else besides gourd

and nightcat is a blank slate

any of the other ones you got questions about

[dark rain]

no

wait

comprehension

u shold write up examples as to what all of them do tbh

[regal mulch]

understanding pearls and your crafting skill along with figuring out how stuff works

i will eventually

any other stuff

like about what they do or why a slugcat has a stat

[regal mulch]

@verbal grove its basically just a downside

let me pull up survivors and monks

survivors is

When you are experiencing Starvation, rolling a 1 or a 2 causes the action to be rolled with disadvantage.
You cannot use Survival Instincts whilst you are starving.

monks is

You are only able to eat fruits, vegetables or eggs, and are unable to eat meat.
You also deal 3 less damage per hit unless it is dealt through spells or unarmed combat. However, damage dealt can never be 0 or lower - in this case, simply deal 1 damage.

[verbal grove]

ok, my negative trait for spear master is that the spears he throws, if he hits a poisonous object, he gets poisoned, he might also might not be able to carry an object in his mouth, seeing he has none

[regal mulch]

that could work but odds are you dont miss

i think something more you have no item in your mouth (if thats in game ill have to ask about this), you cant eat food normally, and you are completely mute

if you have any more questions please ask

[verbal grove]

what would saint's negative traits be? like that he just can't eat anything but plants? not even eggs like monk? and that he can only throw rubble at enemies as a weapon

perhaps saint is weak to heat, like if he spends to much time in that volcanic place with lava, he gets a debuff?

[regal mulch]

cant throw spears almost at all

[hushed bane]

mornin

im going to write up a bunch of stats / traits for hunter and nightcat

Maybe get through the other slugcats later

[verbal grove]

is night cat like, uber sneaky?

[regal mulch]

@hushed bane hi hows it going

and yes

[hushed bane]

heyoo

so i had a lot more stuff to do today than i anticipated and was Not able to fully finish the hunter

am going to rn tho

[hushed bane]

also i think we should change the nightcat's stats

-2 agility doesn't fit

[regal mulch]

ill help with it in a second

and we can mess with it but what would we change

[hushed bane]

uhhh

idk the stat distribution makes it extremely hard

• survivor, saint and rivulet have +2 agility so swapping with them is off the table
• spearmaster and host have -2 knowledge whilst nightcat has +2 knowledge, can't swap with them either
• the gourmand also has -2 agility so that won't work

[regal mulch]

rivulet dosent have negative knowledge

host does iirc

[hushed bane]

wait yeah oops

this leaves only hunter and monk

[regal mulch]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GPiJwooWfvtukPFflsIhlWOLGrbODcTG7oYBnk9AMKc/edit?usp=sharing

and saint dosent have +2 agility

[hushed bane]

TRUE

but swapping with it is also sort of ehh

since the saint is all about avoiding predators

[regal mulch]

i think we should just leave it be

[hushed bane]

OH IDEA

[regal mulch]

say that theyre an ambush predator so they dont move much

and yeah

[hushed bane]

we swap rivulet, spearmaster and nightcat

rivulet gets -2 knowledge, spearmaster gets -2 agility, nightcat gets -2 resistance

[regal mulch]

idk rivulet seems like they would be more frail

spearmaster would have less knowledge because they cant communicate as easily

and nightcat can have less agility as they act like an ambush predator and dont move as much

[hushed bane]

okay actually that works well

maybe nightcat has a trait that means it can sort of "build up" to a better agility roll

[regal mulch]

how so

[hushed bane]

i mean if they act like an ambush predator, ambush predators tend to work by slowly stalking prey and putting most of their energy into one big pounce/strike to kill them off

[regal mulch]

oh that could work

like charge an attack up after a while

[hushed bane]

ye

[regal mulch]

yeah give me like 30 minutes and we can start brainstorming

[hushed bane]

im gonna find images for each scug

[regal mulch]

@hushed bane ok hey im here

[hushed bane]

hihi

im gonna go make some food shortly but i can get some stuff done

[regal mulch]

so what should hunters positive trait be

[hushed bane]

better unarmed strikes + slightly better damage

[regal mulch]

oh theyre gonna be an unarmed fighter?

[hushed bane]

sort of

in fact yeah

that should be the hunter's niche

artificer has bombs and spearmaster has spears

the hunter can still use those ofc

but it's more of a generalist attacker

[regal mulch]

so how would the positive work

and should we incorporate the disease mechanic and what not

[hushed bane]

already written the positive

[regal mulch]

forgot to log in

[hushed bane]

your unarmed attack is much better and you do a little more damage with everything else

negative should just be carnivorous

[regal mulch]

i think hunters downside should be that you have half the blessings

[hushed bane]

i think including the disease would be a bit much

[regal mulch]

more damage is already strong

[hushed bane]

yeahh

maybe instead of half though

just a flat increased cost of spells

[regal mulch]

all spells cost double?

[hushed bane]

that feels like a lot but it could work

[regal mulch]

hunters positive is really good

[lofty venture]

Hunter is a pretty old Slugcat, so how about they attain more skills slower than others do?

[regal mulch]

nah

we dont want to affect the rate slugcats gain skills

[lofty venture]

Ah I see

[regal mulch]

@hushed bane question

are we using "you" or "the X" for the stuff

weve been using you up to this point

[hushed bane]

OH RIGHT YEAH

[regal mulch]

i feel like we dont need to add the fact theyre a carnivore

its a pretty boring downside that we are already going to be doing for monk and probably some others

[hushed bane]

it still should be there

big part of being the hunter

and i wouldn't say it's that boring considering it shakes up your gameplay quite a bit

[regal mulch]

this is why i feel like adding a diet thing would be a good idea

i can think of 5 diets that we can split between the 10 slugcats

[hushed bane]

5?

isn't there just

herbivorous, carnivorous, omnivorous, insectivorous?

[regal mulch]

herbivore, carnivore, omnivore, insectivore, and just dead things

the last one is pretty simillar to carnivore but it also would allow anything as long as its dead

[hushed bane]

ehh

i feel like it works as a downside

and would be sorta redundant in its own section

[regal mulch]

i think we dont need the carnivore downside to hunter

[hushed bane]

why's that

isn't it part of the hunter's core identity though?

[regal mulch]

idk i feel like we shouldnt reuse downsides too much

odds are we use this for hunter, spearmaster, monk, and saint

[hushed bane]

i can understand making monk a herbivore because it feels more in line with their karma gimmick thing but this is a core part of hunter

[hushed bane]

that's 4/10 slugcats with special diets, i think it's good

especially since spearmaster and saint are different anyway
saint is herbivorous AND can't even throw spears
spearmaster is carnivorous AND can only use spears to eat

[regal mulch]

no im saying we should differentiate monk and saints part

maybe make one an insectivore?

[hushed bane]

wait monk is an insectivore right?

[regal mulch]

rn theyre a herbivore

[hushed bane]

i think this is fine as is tbh

having two slugcats with the same diet isn't really a problem imo

[regal mulch]

we could make monk an insectivore to make it more accurate though

[hushed bane]

then it has the same diet as survivor though

and i think that isn't a big enough downside

[regal mulch]

by default every slugcat can eat everything right?

[hushed bane]

wait can survivor eat lizards?

[regal mulch]

in game no

but i say for this by default a slugcat can eat anything

[hushed bane]

yeah i think that's how it should be though

makes things more of a challenge and we do wanna stay accurate

in the case of the monk though i do say bending the rules makes sense only in that context

as the monk's whole theme is being in harmony with the wild and such

[regal mulch]

wait do you want it to be so every slugcat can eat anything or no

or the standard insectivore diet unless the are a carnivore

[hushed bane]

the standard insectivore diet

batflies & blue fruits

(and yeah there's other stuff but those are the main examples of Food)

[regal mulch]

idk i feel like thats not a great idea

because you need a lot of food and the parties can get big

[hushed bane]

i think it'll work out

especially since i plan to add a lot of homebrew food

that's rain world-y enough to add to a campaign seamlessly

AND it's up to the DM to decide how much food is in each room

sure there might not be a massive variety of food in the base game

[regal mulch]

well then isnt monks downside tiny?

and crafting foods will also make it easier

[hushed bane]

not necessarily - situational but still a downside

[hushed bane]

crafting requires a successful knowledge check though

so it's not always as consistent

[regal mulch]

isnt it a comp check for crafting?

or is it knowledge now

[hushed bane]

oh wait yeah comprehension

same thing

[regal mulch]

i say we make monks diet only fruits and vegitables

no eggs

make it a bit harder

[hushed bane]

yeah sure

i can vibe with that

[regal mulch]

especially since monk only needs 6 and 4 food pips to fill up fully

and whats the standard unarmed damage btw

1d4?

[hushed bane]

1d6+1

[regal mulch]

our range is only 2 higher then

3-9 instead of 2-7

[hushed bane]

yeah, but the hunter rolls with 2d4

way more consistent

1d6 is just random

[regal mulch]

i feel like thats a bit too high

maybe reduce it a bit

[hushed bane]

i think it's a good median

[regal mulch]

maybe make default unarmed damage 1d4 while the hunter has 1d6+1

[hushed bane]

since it's gotta be somewhere between an unarmed strike and a spear

i think unarmed damage works as 1d6

[regal mulch]

as a slugcat shouldnt be very strong with its fists normally unless it specs for it

[hushed bane]

since most predators are gonna have a lot of hp

and 1d6 isn't necessarily Strong

[regal mulch]

well that can still like

2 shot a blue lizard

and that dosent feel right

[hushed bane]

that is true

still, making the hunter deal 1d6 feels wrong

[regal mulch]

1d6 + 1

[hushed bane]

should be 2 dice imo

more consistency

[regal mulch]

1d4 vs 1d6 + 1 is already more consistent

or we can go with the opposite route

2d4 - 1

[hushed bane]

1d6+1d4

?

[regal mulch]

too much damage

nearly a spears worth at max

i think 1d6 + 1 is still the best option

the range is 2-7, while the default range is 1-4

or you can go the consistency route

1d4 + 3

4-7

[hushed bane]

hold on brb

[regal mulch]

@dark rain hey im forcing you to help us

[dark rain]

wa

what do you need

[regal mulch]

hey

should unarmed damage be 1d4 or 1d6+1

a spear does 2d6 damage btw

[dark rain]

so

binary success/failure

what's the intended failure rate

[regal mulch]

im just going off damage wise like

how much damage does an unarmed strike do to a spear in comparision

[dark rain]

I know

I need to know failure rates, hp averages, and intended time to kill

because I dunno how much damage anything should do if I dunno that

for reference HP average in AMG is 10 and I intended time to kill to be very low, so I made the average damage sit around 7

[regal mulch]

it goes off rain world so going off the slugcat having 12 hp

a pink lizard has about 24

[hushed bane]

wait 24??

[dark rain]

and slugcat dies in 1-2 hits yeah

[hushed bane]

jeez that's low

[regal mulch]

yeah

double the slugcats

[hushed bane]

but yeah slugcat has 12 hp because a spear deals 2d6

[regal mulch]

it would be made up for be the group size they come in

[hushed bane]

i mean to be fair

[regal mulch]

which isnt 100% accurate but it works

[dark rain]

a pink lizard goes down to 2 spears or so

[hushed bane]

• lizards deal a lot of damage
• hunters gotta eat

[regal mulch]

yeah

[hushed bane]

HP doesn't always determine difficulty

[regal mulch]

odds are you dont die from one encounter

[dark rain]

so around 20 hp is pretty reasonable IF spears do about 10 damage

[regal mulch]

you die due to repeated wounds

[hushed bane]

spears deal about 7 on average

[dark rain]

though with 24 hp they're likely to go down in around 3 hits

[hushed bane]

2d6

[dark rain]

3-4

[regal mulch]

yeah

[hushed bane]

that works tbh

[dark rain]

more likely 4

[regal mulch]

3-4 hits is good

[hushed bane]

since you'll have more slugcats than one in a party usually

[regal mulch]

yeah

[dark rain]

are you using damage dice for a reason

[regal mulch]

this is designed to work best with about 2-5 people id say

[dark rain]

if u want to be RW accurate™️ then 20 hp might work better

though that's like

tweakable

[regal mulch]

we arent going to be 100% accurate

[dark rain]

easily

[regal mulch]

even if its not fully accurate you need to change stuff for the sake of the game

[dark rain]

also

why use dice instead of fixed damage values

[regal mulch]

fizzy you explain

[hushed bane]

Good question

(no idea)

[regal mulch]

i think its better as it gives a wider range of what happens instead of being able to perfectly predict when something will die

[dark rain]

you could randomize hp instead of that to give it 1-2 hits of variance

[regal mulch]

well then you need to do that for every enemy

[dark rain]

which is pre-session work

[regal mulch]

its better to randomize one thing that affects the rest, than to have to randomize everything being affected by one thing

let me like get an example

[dark rain]

sure but its way faster than counting up dice in combat

[regal mulch]

counting dice dosent take long

especially since we only use about 1 or 2 at a time

[dark rain]

it doesn't take long but it does add up

[hushed bane]

plus there aren't many weapons in this

like the main sources of damage are just spears

[regal mulch]

yeah theres like 3 damage types

spears, explosives, and spells

[hushed bane]

and blessing are pretty limited usually

[regal mulch]

random damage is better for this

as said before

[hushed bane]

so if you're using a blessing and an attack in combat, that's the most you can combo

[regal mulch]

it turns damage modifiers into "+3 damage" to "more consistent damage"

anyways uh

should we reduce hunters damage buff?

[hushed bane]

maybe

ye sure

i wanted it to mirror monk

but +2 seems more reasonable

[regal mulch]

anyways how about their adaptations

wait did we ever decide on unarmed damage

@hushed bane

[hushed bane]

wait so what's unarmed damage now?

[regal mulch]

i think it should be 1d4 by default

and 1d4 + 3 for hunter

[hushed bane]

that works

[regal mulch]

should we get rid of all the also, addtionally, etc in the descriptions

[hushed bane]

i think they're fine but you can if you want

okay so adaptation 1 is just better rolls on low HP

what should the other be?

[regal mulch]

i dont know i want to discuss something else first

should i say "conventional weaponry" or spears

conventional weaponry is more vague

and allows for homebrew weapons more easily

[hushed bane]

ye that works

[regal mulch]

i think we should seperate damage into 4 types

conventional, explosive, unarmed, and spells

hows this

[hushed bane]

that works!

[regal mulch]

i think adrenaline surge should become a bit stronger

+3 hp maybe?

and round it up

so the effect actives at 8hp

because its not that strong rn

@hushed bane

[hushed bane]

oo maybe

that better?

[regal mulch]

that could work

but it still seems super niche

why pick the option that only comes into play when you take damage when you could pick the other one (that is probably always going to be active)

i think a taunt would be a better option

taunt an enemy, and if they attack you and miss you can counterattack with 50% more damage or follow up with an attack of a different damage type

[hushed bane]

that's sort of already a thing you could use with momentum

feinting

also i wouldnt say it's super niche

predators are a huge part of rain world's gameplay loop

and the hunter is all about getting close to them to kill and eat em

[regal mulch]

yeah you could make it cost momentum

[hushed bane]

so

[regal mulch]

then again its super similalr to negative momentum so

yknow how inspiration exists and you can use it for advantage

[hushed bane]

yeah

that's survivor though

[regal mulch]

actually nvm better idea

we might want to change the advantage buff to a flat bonus

but make it apply to more

[hushed bane]

+2?

[regal mulch]

yeah +2

[hushed bane]

to be fair though

muscle and agility are the main two combat stats

OR

we go advantage to muscle and agility

and any of their substats

[regal mulch]

i say

[hushed bane]

oop brb

[regal mulch]

advantage to muscle and agility, +2 to throwing and dex

stealth and carrying dont need a +2 or advantage below 50% hp

[hushed bane]

that works well

wait you mean throwing and finesse right

[regal mulch]

yeah

i keep calling it dex

hows that

[hushed bane]

great

[regal mulch]

or should it just be a flat +2 to all of those rolls

and not advantage

@hushed bane

[hushed bane]

advantage to all i say

[regal mulch]

lets just leave it how it is rn

we will tweak it later

we are going to have to do heavy balancing later

what should hunters other adaptation be

maybe just a more non conditional buff thats not as strong

@hushed bane

[hushed bane]

backkk

[hushed bane]

maybe?

i sorta want something that changes up how you attack things though

[regal mulch]

how so

maybe something that encourages comboing spears and unarmed?

@hushed bane

[hushed bane]

oo maybe

how would you combo that though

[regal mulch]

every attack with one type of damage buffs the other type

in a different way

after an unarmed strike your throwing temp increaes by +1, after a spear hits your unarmed damage increase by +1

might need to tweak the values or effects

you can pull spears out of enemies right

with a finesse check or something

[hushed bane]

ye

[hushed bane]

yeah but how do we know what actions increase what stats

[regal mulch]

idk

[hushed bane]

so unarmed just improves throwing afterwards?

[regal mulch]

how else would your attacking be changed though

[hushed bane]

hmmm

[regal mulch]

i dont have any other idea for it

maybe we finish hunter later?

uh

@lofty venture do you have any ideas

[hushed bane]

maybe they get an extra combat action?

idk

[lofty venture]

For attacking or general ideas?

[regal mulch]

hunter

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1c5WbbZYUDzZ_yfAJqQ2Gskch1G8dmAk-PIw-C1xDUV8/edit?usp=sharing

go off what we have already

[lofty venture]

[hushed bane]

basically an extra perk it can choose to get on levelling up

WAIT

CRITS

on a high attack roll you deal extra damage

like a 16 or more nets you +2 damage

[regal mulch]

16 or more on the like

throwing roll?

[hushed bane]

like when you roll to attack

can be any stat

muscle or throwing usually though

[regal mulch]

hm

[hushed bane]

i think it's good

[regal mulch]

maybe the adrenaline rush can be changed to affect unarmed mostly while this one is for spears?

[hushed bane]

nah id keep it

[regal mulch]

i like that idea

[hushed bane]

adrenaline rush is for if you wanna be more aggressive in general and take more risks

this is just if you want a slight boost in DPS and not have to play as risky

otherwise if you remove the spear bit from adrenaline rush, it's not as powerful

[regal mulch]

make adrenaline rush a ability you can activate any time you go below half health that gives a big boost to unarmed damage

[hushed bane]

and therefore doesn't reward risky play

maybeeeeee

[lofty venture]

What about something that gives it a second chance at getting up again, despite being at 0 health.

For example, if a Hunter gets in a fight with a lizard or vulture, they can make a roll to escape their jaws and make a run for it. It van only activate under the condition that their body is still present in the wild (ie. not eaten by a DLL, Leviathan, Thanos snapped by Iterator powers, or dragged into a den.)

[hushed bane]

that's a similar thing to adrenaline rush anyway

[regal mulch]

nah

i think adrenaline should be mostly for unarmed damage

[hushed bane]

i don't think it should improve damage

it should just give your rolls advantage

[regal mulch]

i still think one spear one unarmed option is a good idea

or hunter should just be unarmed focused in general

[lofty venture]

I don't know what to give to an already tanky/OP build of Slugcat without going too far out of reach.

[hushed bane]

hunter should be unarmed in general

but i don't think it should be restricted to unarmed

[regal mulch]

should i change the conventional weapon boost to +1 if we want them to be unarmed focused

[hushed bane]

yeah

[lofty venture]

The ability to hand-to-hand combat the vultures and punch that mask straight off their squishy face. 😂

[regal mulch]

so rn you deal uh

1d4 + 3 damage

maybe adrenaline rush should be tweaked to give +2 damage to unarmed strikes no matter what

along with the other effects (but weaker)

[hushed bane]

yeah that works!

i think it should be +2 damage and then instead of a flat +2 increase for stuff, make it have advantage

[regal mulch]

make the crit +3 damage

or +4

ok so hunters unarmed strikes deal uh

[lofty venture]

🤔

[regal mulch]

6-9 damage

spears do 2-12

we might want to reduce that

[lofty venture]

Guys, sorry to go off topic, but I have a general question.

[regal mulch]

5-8?

what

[lofty venture]

Will there ever be a time when food will go scarce and they'll have to ration things out? Or will we assume the rain keeps order in the already apocalyptic world.

[regal mulch]

up to the DM

[lofty venture]

Okay, that feels right

[lofty venture]

Continue

[regal mulch]

@hushed bane should we make hunters unarmed strikes weaker?

at first

like

"you gain +1 unarmed damage for every 3 levels you gain, up to a max of +2/+3"

[hushed bane]

oh i like that!

adds progression

[regal mulch]

btw

damage wise should we change it

+3/+2 its uh

6-9 damage

i think +2/+2 is better

so its 5-8 damage

or we can have it be 4-7 damage and add an adaptation for +1 unarmed damage

idk

5-8 damage seems best to me

[hushed bane]

yeah that works

5-8 seems best too

oo maybe nightcat can camouflage?

[regal mulch]

hows this

yeah maybe

[hushed bane]

that works!

although a max of +2 seems low it's balanced ig

[regal mulch]

well you have to account for the fact unarmed is super consistent

the average damage is 6.5

the average of a spear is 7

actually yknow what lets make hunters conventional weaponry damage bonus 2 again

[hushed bane]

yeah that works

[regal mulch]

is hunter too weak now?

should we reduce the blessing negative a bit

to like

[hushed bane]

yeah

[regal mulch]

-4 instead of double cost

-4 works?

[hushed bane]

yeah

[regal mulch]

ok cool hunter is done

oh did you already do the food pips for the downpour slugcats

[hushed bane]

ye

[regal mulch]

how about nightcats food pips?

[hushed bane]

probably 8 required and 2 reserve?

or 6 required and 2 reserve

but then the abilities tend to use food a lot

[regal mulch]

6 required 6 reserve?

[hushed bane]

that works

[regal mulch]

how much should camo expend

2 or 3

which sounds better @hushed bane

[hushed bane]

second

[hushed bane]

3?

[regal mulch]

i think that works

but uh

should it give like

+3/+5 stealth while its activate?

along with forcing a creature to make a perception check with a difficulty of 2d8 + stealth (not including the stealth bonus from camo)

@hushed bane

[hushed bane]

true but then we run into a problem

[regal mulch]

what

[hushed bane]

how long does the camouflage last

maybe it's like

your next 3 or 4 actions?

maybe we measure time simply in actions

[regal mulch]

few options

till you move, till you use a weapon or spell, or it drains a food pip for every action you make in it

[hushed bane]

i like the last option

instead of activating it with 3 pips

it drains 1 food pip for every action you make

[regal mulch]

i say make it drain 1 food pip at start

to prevent you from camouflaging without moving

[hushed bane]

oh yeah true

that works

[regal mulch]

actually now that i think about it

rn its just basically just normal stealth that drain food pips

should we make it give +7 stealth or something?

@hushed bane

[hushed bane]

oh yeah ofc

not +7 though

[regal mulch]

i feel like +3 is too little

[hushed bane]

+4

[regal mulch]

sure

but isnt it just a +4 stealth then

[hushed bane]

mhm

i dont see the problem with that

[regal mulch]

it isnt a problem

why did you delete the check part though

[hushed bane]

the bit where other creatures check?

redundant

[regal mulch]

fair

[hushed bane]

since contests are just a mechanic that is gonna be explained anyway

as in

[regal mulch]

yeah

[hushed bane]

when a creature attempts to see through deception, for example, it's their perception roll vs your deception roll

[regal mulch]

monks needed the check stated as its a unique thing and it needed to be clarified what the modifier was

so one will be bioluminescene the other will be what

[hushed bane]

mhm

[regal mulch]

actually i have an idea for this

you can activate bioluminescene in two ways

[hushed bane]

we need a negative trait too

[regal mulch]

one is free and provides light, which counters the effects of darkness (-3 perception)

the other costs 1 food pip and allows you to like

flash it around you at any target near you (costing 1 food pip)

this would make their next action be done with disadvantage

[hushed bane]

OOO

strobe light??

[regal mulch]

yeah

[hushed bane]

i think it shouldnt always cause disadvantage

the enemy has to roll will or something

[regal mulch]

disadvantage if they fail a save

[hushed bane]

yeah

[regal mulch]

tolerance?

as its like

tolerating the bright light

[hushed bane]

sure

[regal mulch]

yeah

tolerance save

[hushed bane]

what's the negative trait then

[regal mulch]

idk

should you be able to focus the light far away or should it just be around you

or both

[hushed bane]

just be around you

[regal mulch]

can you write the description idk how to communicate that the effects of darkness are only negated if you are making a perception check on something in the light

without making it super wordy

this work?

[dark rain]

you could just add a light section that explains what bright, normal, and dark light levels do

[regal mulch]

that could work

[dark rain]

and have bioluminescence affect that

that way if you implement stuff like glow rocks it can also refer to that section

[regal mulch]

nightcats could be bright, neuron glow could be normal, and dark could be no light

want to make nightcats light not redundant if you have a lantern or neuron

[hushed bane]

yeah, doing that in basic rules

there's a section called special conditions

[regal mulch]

hows that

[dark rain]

poggers

[regal mulch]

what should the stat for the tolerance save difficulty be

2d8 + what

[dark rain]

dunno

[regal mulch]

im gonna go with intimidation

[hushed bane]

that's good!

im gonna write up the regular rules

[regal mulch]

ok

ill work on nightcat

[hushed bane]

wait so what are the numbers for success and failure on 2d8 again

[regal mulch]

uh

for what

[hushed bane]

actions

just regular actions

[regal mulch]

well it depends on the action

i think uh

we are going off the momentum systems handling of combat right

[hushed bane]

no not combat

[regal mulch]

oh you mean out of combat

[hushed bane]

just like regular actions

yeah

[regal mulch]

out of combat let the DM decide on the action

[hushed bane]

wait

wdym

[regal mulch]

what the required roll to fail or succeed is

like trying to push a boulder or move a few rocks would have wildly different requirments

a boulder would need like an 18

but a few rocks its like a 2

[hushed bane]

how do we define those requirements though

i think it'd take a lot of improve for the DM to just decide

[regal mulch]

that still works

let them decide

[hushed bane]

we at least need like

3 sets of different success / lose goals

for actions that are easy, medium, hard

we can't just make it so you need to improv numbers on the spot

[regal mulch]

i think we could

[hushed bane]

nah

too much work

no TTRPG really does that

[regal mulch]

hmm

1-5 is easy, 6-10 is medium, 11-15 is hard, 16-20 is very hard, 21+ is nearly impossible

or just

5, 10, 15, 20, 25

that wouldnt work though

i say just use the range of values

[hushed bane]

hmm

[regal mulch]

20+ rolls are possible with enough buffs but should be used very sparingly

[hushed bane]

6, 12, 16, 20

[regal mulch]

idk i feel like using a range is better

and the dm just picks a value

or just pick the middle of each

3, 8, 13, 18, 22

or 5 10 15 20 25

[hushed bane]

i think 6, 12, 16, 20

[regal mulch]

provide both?

range and set values

[hushed bane]

nah

range doesn't make much sense

[regal mulch]

i think it does

and i think 6 10 14 18 22 would work better

why add the +

oh wait i see

[hushed bane]

so you roll within the range though?

[regal mulch]

wdym

[hushed bane]

how does range work as opposed to set values

[regal mulch]

the dm picks on in the range

to assign the difficulty

[hushed bane]

yeah that's the thing

set values just work better

the DM has to do much less mental work

[regal mulch]

fair

[hushed bane]

since a range feels somewhat arbitrary

[regal mulch]

i do think we should use these values instead

easy, average, difficult, very difficult, bleak

then again 16+ much nicer than 18+

hm

20, 16, 12, 8?

[hushed bane]

oh that works!

[hushed bane]

yeah that's the problem with 18+ - you need the highest roll on 2d8 and a modifier of +2 on that stat to even hope to get it

[regal mulch]

yeah

20 16 12 8

even failing the easiest tasks if you are inexperienced fits rain world

[hushed bane]

yeahh that's why i think 8 fits way better

[regal mulch]

and also makes negative and positive modifiers a bigger deal

[hushed bane]

mhm

[regal mulch]

now the -2 on your stat matters more

and and a -1, -2, or -3 means you will always fail a hard check of 16

-3 means you almost always fail an average

and you need a lot of buffs for a bleak check

[hushed bane]

mhm

[regal mulch]

i would add a thing saying "these values do not have to be used if the GM sees fit, but are recommended" or something

[hushed bane]

maybee

but then what values would the GM use?

[regal mulch]

ones they make up

just mention its recommended to use these

[hushed bane]

i guess