icon-finetuning

[vocal basalt]

will post all of the ones i have so far (including the proto-b/dll which arent particularly good ill admit )

[wispy juniper]

iconful!!

[wispy juniper]

for pebbles, i love the first one, though it does break the rules a little by using three colors total. will have to think about that one, and the proto bll/dll ones
for guardians, i think the fourth one is best! consistent and looks good. same for the karma flower one
for moon i think second is best, to avoid using too many colors for consistency
for popcorn plants, the second one definitely! you can make out what it is very well despite it being limited to one shade

[ashen plover]

could I ask what the goal is with the proto auras?

[vocal basalt]

they kinda have them around them ingame too

[sharp dust]

I suppose kip's referencing CorruptionDarkness

[ashen plover]

currently reading them as flames

[vocal basalt]

yos

[ashen plover]

yes

I could see it

[sharp dust]

Maybe add some LittleLegs instead of it?

[vocal basalt]

i specifically referenced this image

[ashen plover]

(is it the same size as the others?)

[vocal basalt]

id say so yeah

[wispy juniper]

personally i think the stubby tentacles are a more prominent feature than the aura? didn't see it at all any time i was in pebbles

[vocal basalt]

that's a good suggestion

[wispy juniper]

you could try adding those and see how that looks, then we could pick what works better!

[vocal basalt]

yos yos

as i said i was the least confident on that particular one so

[sharp dust]

On other icons, my opinion is: 4 for guardians except the black border is too fat around corners;
karma flower is good;
moon 2 except we could make the circle on the head darker;
pebbles 2 or 3, but the pink shadow in the 3 is too close to the normal pink;
popcorn plant 2 is p good;

[vocal basalt]

if we go with moon 2 id also go with pebbles 2

[ashen plover]

I'm unsure about the karma flower- it seems a little too rounded

[sharp dust]

aight

[sharp dust]

Maybe it should be a little flatter?

[sharp dust]

Two images for the price of one.

[vocal basalt]

it's kinda meant to be viewed from a more top-down angle

[storm knot]

Each time my favorite is the last one, the newer fixes are nice

[ashen plover]

in game it usually appears with the circle only partially visible right

[vocal basalt]

yeah

[ashen plover]

that might be a better way to go about it yeah

[vocal basalt]

flatter in uhh

which direction?

[ashen plover]

in this I'd say

[sharp dust]

Yeah.

[ashen plover]

less of an "objective/isometric" view

[vocal basalt]

gotcha

how is this for guardian?

[ashen plover]

it's ok if we don't see the whole circle, the petals at the sides make it look really nice ingame

looking good!

[sharp dust]

(I chose 4 btw, I missed one icon at the top)

lol

[vocal basalt]

ah ok will recolour

[ashen plover]

lol

[maiden gust]

ok im back

[wispy juniper]

hi mm!

[vocal basalt]

wb

[ashen plover]

henlo

[sharp dust]

I prefer this one.

hell-o

[vocal basalt]

cool

[maiden gust]

maybe try this icon with the deactivated (NOT ACTIVATED) red x

id like to compare and see which i like more

but otherwise it looks good

[vocal basalt]

will see

the deactivated colour is so close to black it may as well be black honestly

[maiden gust]

oh

just use the activated one then

[sharp dust]

We can't use two colors for the icons, it breaks the rule

So no red

[vocal basalt]

the second lttm icon breaks that rule too

here it is anyway

[sharp dust]

You sure?

[wispy juniper]

does it? some icons use black in them

[sharp dust]

But that's the first.

[maiden gust]

yeah i prefer the non-red one

[wispy juniper]

yeah that's the first one

[vocal basalt]

oh

OH right its the second in my files

[wispy juniper]

tricked by evil files

[vocal basalt]

sorry mb

[wispy juniper]

all good! glad we got that cleared up
as others said, i think the fourth guardian icon looks lovely

[vocal basalt]

here's a revised version of 2

alright, let me pin it

[sharp dust]

These break color and shadow rules.

[vocal basalt]

yos yos im aware

[sharp dust]

Wasn't it nice with a blue color?

[vocal basalt]

true

[sharp dust]

To clearly distinguish from pebble.

ngl your pink color is ugly pebbles

[vocal basalt]

he is very magenta

[wispy juniper]

yea for iterator icons keeping them a uniform color throughout is definitely a good idea for easier distinction

[maiden gust]

ok... personally

karma flower needs redoing

moon and pebbles icons should break the color rule

popcorn plant should be redone at an angle, like the spear or batnip images

id prefer a different approach to the proto icons, maybe color reversal?

[vocal basalt]

i did try colour reversal for the proto icons but imo it just didnt look very good

i did attempt the popcorn plant at an angle but it was very complex given how complicated the shading on the popcorn part is

[sharp dust]

Never break the color rule

bad idea

[maiden gust]

popcorn plant icon should be at an angle and have the red of the outside husk

[vocal basalt]

for the proto icons im seeing about giving them tendrils though im unsure of how well that will distinguish them from the mobile versions

[maiden gust]

iterator icons can be bicolored if everyone wants them to be

[vocal basalt]

i think theyre fine as one-colour

[ashen plover]

looks lovely!

[sharp dust]

They wouldn't feel vanilla if they were bi-colored.

[ashen plover]

I think monochrome iterators are fine

[sharp dust]

:this:

[vocal basalt]

dual colour might be too visually complex given the scale too

[storm knot]

Yeah I don't really see the point of breaking the color rule For iterators at this point it just looks like superficial cosmetics for no real gain.

[ashen plover]

I'd also be wary of pink pebbles- he looks like a little bald man and that is fine but a little unvanilla- greyscale looks a lot neater :D

[maiden gust]

for the protos i think that they should be redone and spread out towards the bottom of the image

[vocal basalt]

implying he isnt a bald man

[maiden gust]

he is though?

[wispy juniper]

he IS a little bald man though

[vocal basalt]

get his ass

[maiden gust]

reply with to slap 5P's bald head

[ashen plover]

getting cancelled in icon finetuning

pebbles is NOT A LITTLE BALD MAN 👇 Thread 1/18

[wispy juniper]

greyscale is also neat but i think it could make them a lil tricky to distinguish at such a small scale

[vocal basalt]

i mean

the other icons are that small and theyre fine

[maiden gust]

all of the iterators are little bald gremlins. this is canon because i said it is

[sharp dust]

canon_man

[ashen plover]

aren't pebbles eyes lower down on his head than moon's?

[maiden gust]

and don't give "oh the antennae!" as an excuse

those are their ears

[vocal basalt]

i can move them down a bit

[wispy juniper]

ye cuz they use noticably different colors or shapes!

[ashen plover]

nono I mean-

shouldn't they be higher up?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/976877379718905886/976877657759305798/xx_fp2.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/976877379718905886/976882558702878870/xx_lttm2.png

[vocal basalt]

[ashen plover]

his bald head is very big, I mean

lol

[vocal basalt]

fair

[sharp dust]

big brain takes place

[maiden gust]

pebbles has a fivehead

[ashen plover]

does he need smaller eyes than moon?

[vocal basalt]

i could maybe make his head a little shorter too

yeah, his eyes are smaller than hers i think

[ashen plover]

to the something or other

[vocal basalt]

smaller head

[sharp dust]

Not really, but this says a lot about his personality.

[wispy juniper]

debaldified

on a serious note that looks great! i prefer it to the tremendous forehead

[ashen plover]

looks better!!

[vocal basalt]

i will give him a painstakingly rendered luscious mane

[vocal basalt]

with l'oreal

[maiden gust]

we could include the yellow eyebrow marks included in the graffiti

[ashen plover]

I do believe they have the same size eyes though

[vocal basalt]

no dual colour

[maiden gust]

i mean just as black marks

[vocal basalt]

ah

[sharp dust]

Yeah, they do.

[wispy juniper]

those would be tricky to add with the small scale i think?

[vocal basalt]

ehh it doesnt show up on his ingame sprite

theyd be fine to add

[wispy juniper]

also i think its best to keep it accurate to the ingame sprite as opposed to grafitti

[vocal basalt]

yeah

[ashen plover]

hmm

[vocal basalt]

anyway i think giving him slightly smaller eyes also helps differentiate him some more from moon

[ashen plover]

idk to me it reminds me of that male vs female disney animated dog meme

[maiden gust]

it would help if you upscaled these

[vocal basalt]

ok actually yes moon's eyes are bigger

[storm knot]

The yellow marks aren't even in the dream picture Most unlore graffiti ever.

[ashen plover]

oh it was a very rushed websearch

ig pebbs is looking down..?

[wispy juniper]

love how pebble looks with his eyes practically at the chin. such a silly little guy

[sharp dust]

hmm

[vocal basalt]

his eye size is consistent regardless of which direction he's looking i think

[maiden gust]

haha 5P's pose looks like he's standing on camera despondently telling moon "i threw up"

[wispy juniper]

yea he def has smaller eyes

[ashen plover]

interesting

game is boss

[storm knot]

Code-confirmed

[vocal basalt]

[sharp dust]

Oh nice

LOL

[maiden gust]

boss... baby?

[ashen plover]

delet this

[wispy juniper]

what am i LOOKING AT

[maiden gust]

shaded pearl text

[vocal basalt]

lore

[ashen plover]

pasta with grated cheese

[vocal basalt]

[ashen plover]

how's pebbs looking now?

[maiden gust]

is this cheese of the vulture variety

[vocal basalt]

i made his head a little shorter than moon's

[ashen plover]

are the head shapes different?

[maiden gust]

let me open these in photopea to look for potential issues

[vocal basalt]

not really, other than pebbles having 1px less forehead

[wispy juniper]

looking great

[vocal basalt]

youre really going all-in on scrutinising them huh

[ashen plover]

I think I'm stuck in disney animator zone

[vocal basalt]

it's a CANONICAL DIFFERENCE !!

[ashen plover]

I disqualify myself from making comments, these look great

[vocal basalt]

[ashen plover]

I think it's the forehead

lol

it's fine though

[vocal basalt]

should i give him less forehead

[ashen plover]

idk in game he has a tiny baby bald old man flat head

[maiden gust]

they look good!

[vocal basalt]

the yassification of five pebbles

[ashen plover]

he just looks like hitman

it's the bald human head

dying

can we add a barcode

[wispy juniper]

JUST like hitman™️

[wispy juniper]

beautiful

[ashen plover]

they look great kip :'D

very nicely done

[vocal basalt]

so far for proto i have this

[wispy juniper]

ooh!

[ashen plover]

oh my

that's fun :O

[ashen plover]

YES

sorry I didn't see this

[vocal basalt]

i thought you were calling it very nicely done

[ashen plover]

my internet nanozonked

[vocal basalt]

lol no worries

[wispy juniper]

i love that proto dll icon
one slight thing im unsure of is the tentacle which loops back into the body? looks slightly off

[vocal basalt]

any specific part?

[wispy juniper]

nothing specific no, i guess its just the whole when put alongside those shorter tentacles
i think that one or two shorter ones there might work slightly better

[vocal basalt]

i kinda like it

and im worried that without that kinda like loop its just not gonna be very distinguishable from a normal dll

[sharp dust]

The shadow line at the bottom is too small.

[ashen plover]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/976877379718905886/976888368598245396/xx_protodaddy2.png

reposting to stare at

[vocal basalt]

slightly tweaked

[wispy juniper]

thats a good point, it can stay if others find it fine as well
either way lovely work on it!

[maiden gust]

what i'm saying is that it should be a bunch of dll blobs at the bottom

keep the black aura thing though

[ashen plover]

ooh I kinda liked the rightmost tentacle :o

[sharp dust]

Lol the bottom corners are too squarish.

[ashen plover]

make it look a bit more "spilling over"? More proto less rpg enemy :D

[vocal basalt]

that's kinda the point of it though isnt it since it's affixed to the wall

but ill round them a bit

[sharp dust]

It wasn't that good.

I prefer tentacles.

[vocal basalt]

yeah i agree

[vocal basalt]

i removed it coz i wanted to redraw it, but good to have that feedback

[maiden gust]

i'm saying have a thick black outline at the very least

[sharp dust]

Wait, now that I look at the icon...

It looks like a teapot with the upper tentacle.

[vocal basalt]

would you like some blueberry tea

[wispy juniper]

IT DOES

evil kettle

[sharp dust]

[ashen plover]

Beauty and the Rot

[sharp dust]

I can't unsee the teapot.

[vocal basalt]

[maiden gust]

if the prince doesn't find his true love within the time limit he gets consumed by the rot

[vocal basalt]

now in bll flavour

[ashen plover]

looks great :>>>

[wispy juniper]

it does

very nice stuff :>

[vocal basalt]

awesome any further critique on the shape or anything?

[maiden gust]

imo the bottom tentacles should flare out to the sides instead

[vocal basalt]

i can do that

[maiden gust]

also i would like to see a color-inversion version

[ashen plover]

I kinda like the circularity of it the smooth precessed mainfold line breaching into the wistern aloft the tapered wrim

jk

[storm knot]

The only thing I find odd is that they're shown having more tentacles than DLLs and BLLS whereas they actually have fewer

[vocal basalt]

makes the bottom look kind of empty

[ashen plover]

yeah

[vocal basalt]

yeah

[ashen plover]

I kinda read the centre tentacle + the loop as the vines?

?map

[rare dawn]

https://henpemaz.github.io/Rain-World-Interactive-Map/index.html

[vocal basalt]

yus thats what theyre meant to invoke

[maiden gust]

wait! maybe put a square/circular "tile" negative space in the center of the proto design

[vocal basalt]

[ashen plover]

you think?

[vocal basalt]

that could work

i already kinda have the basis for it too

[ashen plover]

am personally like this

am sit on it and refuse to budge

[vocal basalt]

this kinda kinda made it look more like a dll

[wispy juniper]

i've seen a dll like that once

i think the flat bottom is the main thing to help separate them, yeah

[vocal basalt]

agreed

[ashen plover]

it already fits as a sorta corner or bulge proto yeah :D

[vocal basalt]

inverted version though it breaks the icon rules and i dont think it looks as nice

[ashen plover]

so that's
guardians
pebbles
moon
proto bll/dll

all agreed on right?

[wispy juniper]

i think so!

(might be a good idea to send a message with all definitive versions for now and pin it!)

[vocal basalt]

gotcha

[vocal basalt]

these two left and uh..... are there any other objects or creatures we need to account for ?

[wispy juniper]

i really like the popcorn plant one! though as others said i think the karma flower one could use a little work

forgetting what it was exactly that made it look off compared to other icons, was it the angle its drawn at?

[ashen plover]

usually the flower head angles away from the curve of the body right?

and there's usually this distinctive three petal shape visually "forming" the lower part of the wheel, with the central spoke connecting

https://github.com/LauraHannah44/Rain-World-Images/blob/main/Stock Photos (by laura%232871)/KarmaFlower In Ground.png?raw=true
https://github.com/LauraHannah44/Rain-World-Images/blob/main/Stock Photos (by laura%232871)/KarmaFlower Planted.png?raw=true

[vocal basalt]

ah ok so its more like uhm

[storm knot]

Oh just a question why did iterators become grey again? I think I missed a part of the process

[vocal basalt]

looks cleaner

imo at least

[ashen plover]

personally I felt pebbles looked like a boiled hotdog

[vocal basalt]

yeah

[ashen plover]

er, and the detail yeah

[vocal basalt]

really doesnt help with his baldness

[ashen plover]

that

[storm knot]

I think people who aren't very familiar with them could easily mistake them for each other without color

[vocal basalt]

i think their antennae are distinctive enough

[ashen plover]

they'll always be associated with their page link right?

[vocal basalt]

yos

or in their infobox

[vocal basalt]

just to make sure im understanding you correctly gwyn, are you saying it's more like a peace symbol rather than ?

[storm knot]

Yeah I would agree if they made sense but it just changes between the images

[sharp dust]

It shouldn't be facing us

[vocal basalt]

i used the overseer icon for moon as a basis for her icon so

[vocal basalt]

i understand that, but im trying to get a feel for how it's laid out in general so i can plan out what the perspective should look like for each spoke

[maiden gust]

actually i think it looks like karma 9 (mercedes-benz version aka karma raised 3 times)

[vocal basalt]

i actually originally drew it with 3 spokes but

[ashen plover]

yeah, I'd avoid drawing or showing like half of the circle because it usually is obscured by the spokes

[vocal basalt]

[maiden gust]

also MAYBE keep the s-shaped stem

[ashen plover]

that side angle is very stylish as well such a pretty flower

yeah definitely

[vocal basalt]

maybe i should stream my drawing process so you guys can give me live feedback

heckling me like twitch chat

[ashen plover]

UP A PX UP A PX

NONO WRONG PX

[vocal basalt]

[ashen plover]

BF44F5

[maiden gust]

live MM reaction

[rare dawn]

meme\_man#4033

Avatar

[wispy juniper]

A

goodness me

[vocal basalt]

getting decked because i put the pixel 2 pixels over

[wispy juniper]

good idea actually! go for it if you'd like

[maiden gust]

i may not be able to do art but i will still critique it anyways

[sharp dust]

It won't change much for me because I won't talk but only write so huh.

[storm knot]

It makes sense but I'm not sure it actually reflects reality in a way everyone will understand Whereas Pebbles does always have similar antennae, in the sprite as in the dream, Moon has different antennae depending on the artworks, one of which corresponds to the Iggy icon and the other to the sprite which is like Pebbles'. It's just a mess and I'm not sure it will help non-experienced players distinguish them at all.
Then of course as gwyn said they won't be completely lost either, so it's not that problematic, but you know - just my two cents

[vocal basalt]

there's also moon's forehead circle so

[ashen plover]

I'm gonna take a break from the server for a bit, will check in later :D

really nicely done so far!

[vocal basalt]

ok! have a good break gwyn

[ashen plover]

you've been working so hard on this

[wispy juniper]

have a good one gwyn, see you!

[ashen plover]

[storm knot]

To be fair when I wasn't an experienced player I was more concerned about the fact I killed her than the fact she had a circle on her head But yeah I guess it should be enough.

[maiden gust]

🡹
full of neurons

[sharp dust]

Slightly too big

But the shape is better.

[vocal basalt]

the stem or the petals?

or overall

[sharp dust]

Both

overall

[vocal basalt]

actually wait

[maiden gust]

hm

personally i think the "circle" should be exactly circular

[vocal basalt]

literally the opposite of what everyone else said

[maiden gust]

also i think the stem looks a little thin

[vocal basalt]

its also really thin ingame

[maiden gust]

it should increase in width at the very end imo

[vocal basalt]

ingame it gets narrower at the end 💔

[maiden gust]

i mean that towards the "split" it should be a little wider

right now it looks like a weird little noodle

[vocal basalt]

it is a weird little noodle ingame

[maiden gust]

maybe the curves of the "s-shape" are a bit too extreme

it should be a bit subtler

[wispy juniper]

that looks quite nice! though i may not be the best person to judge the quality of this icon. others seem to know a little better

[maiden gust]

honestly... maybe increase line width by one pixel? idk

[vocal basalt]

that will make it look REALLY chunky

and make it stick out like a sore thumb from other icons

[maiden gust]

imo it should be the same width as this

[vocal basalt]

that's literally the same width as i used

[maiden gust]

idk there's just SOMETHING about what we have now that screams "this is placeholder art"

don't know what the exact problem is

[wispy juniper]

i think one thing that may make it feel slightly off at the small scale is the 1px gap between these two

maybe a shape more akin to this one could work slightly better?

[vocal basalt]

that's what i started off with but it honestly just looks really really really weird with this style of heavy black outline around 1px of colour

it looks a lot more natural when it's lineless but like this its just weird

[wispy juniper]

i see what you mean, hm

[maiden gust]

i'd say... maybe try to have roughly equal gaps between the side and middle ones? idk

[vocal basalt]

to give a quick example of what i mean

[maiden gust]

let me try to do some editing myself (this will probably go badly)

[vocal basalt]

nearly impossible to do at this scale

its just a really hard shape to work with at this scale in general which is why i did the more front-facing one originally

and to be completely honest i still prefer the look of that one

[storm knot]

While making the other icons from the canon images I only put diagonal black pixels next to full color ones, not the shaded pixels I don't know if it might help.
For example I removed these pixels from the outlines of centipedes and some others and it ended up cleaner.

[wispy juniper]

ooh! you could see how that sorta thing looks without the black borders everywhere

good call candle

[vocal basalt]

i think it makes the outline look kind of skinny honestly

generally speaking the rule for the outlines is that it bends like a staircase

[storm knot]

In a wiki with a pretty dark theme which makes them less visible I don't think outlines matter too much anyway.

[wispy juniper]

yeah the outlines are barely visible for any creatures/objects anyway

i think that either way its worth a short to see how it might look

[vocal basalt]

it wouldnt change anything to do that because i would be removing black outline pixels, not changing the yellow colour itself

[ashen plover]

getting there!!!

[vocal basalt]

i think its just been slowly morphing towards what i originally made

[storm knot]

I think it's nice though!

[ashen plover]

convergent karmalution

yess

[ashen plover]

what does this look like at small size?

🔎

[vocal basalt]

i didnt even draw that it's just a poorly scaled and recoloured version of the drawing on the *right here

but here

[ashen plover]

[maiden gust]

hey everyone! how does this look?

[storm knot]

By the way just wanted to say, I do like it more this way! It makes it very little intrusive, hardly noticeable, it highlights the icon without looking like a part of the icon. Just works as a very pure and efficient delimiter.

[ashen plover]

it does look clearer at minimum

[wispy juniper]

i was curious about that as well
the batnip icon also has these thick black borders next to 1px wide lines but it looks just fine!

[vocal basalt]

the border on the batnip is also 1 px

its not thick

[vocal basalt]

.

it just looks thicker because the shading colour is pretty dark

so it blends in at a distance

[ashen plover]

I think the batnip also has straight lines right

[vocal basalt]

yes

[ashen plover]

the colour is in these bands which pops

it's weird because the karma flower itself is really close to the size of an icon px wise, right?

[vocal basalt]

most likely

its because the karma flower is lineless and doesnt need to worry about lines overlapping

with an icon we do

[maiden gust]

kip, what's your opinion on my edit

[vocal basalt]

it looks fine but i dont think it really solves any of the issues you pointed out

[maiden gust]

i tried at the very least

(art attempt)

[ashen plover]

this is like

[vocal basalt]

im going to try to clean up this one

[ashen plover]

the - lol

was gonna say the petals do make it quite clean

which is interesting

feels like having a wheel all around with this thin curved band can make the image feel a little "scratchy"?

[maiden gust]

i have no idea what that means

[vocal basalt]

means you focus a lot on the lines the pixels make rather than the full image

since its so thin

but the issue is that the karma flower is just all thin lines

[vocal basalt]

so its really hard to strike that balance

[ashen plover]

yeahh

[wispy juniper]

yea thats what i was thinking
personally i feel like our best bet would be making something with the in-game version!

[maiden gust]

alternatively we could increase the size of the icon

[vocal basalt]

lb told me my first attempt was too big

[ashen plover]

if you'd like to try cleaning up the ingame one then go for it! :>

[maiden gust]

i mean there are some fairly MASSIVE ones like the rain deer icon

[vocal basalt]

yeah but the plant icons are all pretty small

[maiden gust]

so it wouldn't be too out of place if we wanted one to be larger

[vocal basalt]

it would be noticeably different from the other plants

theyre all about this size

[storm knot]

In general only massive things have massive icons.

[maiden gust]

yeah karma flowers are a MASSIVE pain to draw

[ashen plover]

lol

[vocal basalt]

i honestly dont know what to do with this it looks so insanely messy but cleaning it up makes it look wrong

are we sure this isnt good enough

i think i based it loosely off what it looks like when you pick it up

[maiden gust]

frankly idk how we can have a good-looking karma flower unless we give it the rain deer icon size treatment

[wispy juniper]

i personally like it! (could be a little more centered though)
i think it might be best to leave it as is until we can get something that looks nicer, if that sounds good?

[maiden gust]

yeah

[vocal basalt]

ill crop it down for uploading to the wiki

[wispy juniper]

sweet!
there are other things we could get done for now (worm grass maybe?)

[vocal basalt]

ooh yeah

[wispy juniper]

im not sure if there's anything else missing an icon

[vocal basalt]

ill get started on worm grass, could you check for others?

[wispy juniper]

echoes and void worms, that seems to be everything!

[vocal basalt]

hmmmm

both of those are hard to represent with icons

[wispy juniper]

for the latter i think a modified garbage worm sorta icon could work?

[vocal basalt]

i might do just the head of the echoes

[wispy juniper]

change the head and eye shape to reflect the distinct ones that void worms have and i think that could look quite nice!

unsure about echoes, head could work

we've got time to experiement and find whatever works fortunately :D

[maiden gust]

for echoes we might either want to use the diamond-pattern head or the symbol

[wispy juniper]

symbol might be a bit too large to fit into an icon nicely while retaining its look

[vocal basalt]

yes the former is what i was referring to

yeah

trust me the echo symbol is really hard to scale down effectively

worme

[wispy juniper]

worm...

very nice!

[vocal basalt]

hmm the thick base looks odd on the red one for some reason

[wispy juniper]

i think the 2nd one works best

[sharp dust]

I like 1

[vocal basalt]

this ?

[sharp dust]

Yes

[vocal basalt]

[sharp dust]

And I like red wormgrass except I'd suggest to make the base less thick.

[vocal basalt]

ye

[sharp dust]

why?

[wispy juniper]

the red one works too! i like both the black and red to be honest

choices.. difficult

[vocal basalt]

we couldnt really decide if we liked that one or not

also i think black is the safer option since you probably wont see red wormgrass until later in the game

[sharp dust]

Aight.

Maybe menu grey then?

[wispy juniper]

good point, black sounds good

[sharp dust]

Oh ok

[wispy juniper]

same shade as black lizards/squidcadas which is nice for consistency

[sharp dust]

Let the best person that is me decide for you then.

[sharp dust]

Pole plant and Kelp use menu grey, although they are black.

Since wormgrass depends on the palette more than black lizards, I'd use menu grey.

[vocal basalt]

gotcha

[wispy juniper]

fair point!

[ashen plover]

sounds good

[vocal basalt]

[sharp dust]

What if it was golden?

[vocal basalt]

oooh

[sharp dust]

All echoes have a golden head.

[maiden gust]

maybe do it in echo blue? idk

[vocal basalt]

i like the gold

[maiden gust]

imo i think the "eyes" should be a bit larger

[wispy juniper]

i really like that! lovely work on it

[vocal basalt]

if they're larger theyll swamp the entire head

[maiden gust]

just like... 1px lower

and i was talking about the worm grass

[vocal basalt]

oh oops

sorry i didnt double check the reply

[wispy juniper]

what shade are you gonna pick for void worms?

[vocal basalt]

better?

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[maiden gust]

yeah!

[vocal basalt]

i should settle on what i want the void work to actually look like first im thinking i might include the "pincers" kinda like the dropwig icon

except w/ the thing they hook onto you for the ride

that might look a bit goofy though

[wispy juniper]

oo that could work! it's definitely nice to keep in mind that you can make it fairly big given how large they are in-game, right?

[vocal basalt]

yus

i will use the rain deer icon as a base

[wispy juniper]

as for color i initially thought about this kind of muddy red that some parts of their bodies use?

[vocal basalt]

hmm

that says more worm grass to me

[wispy juniper]

ah, yea that's fair!
you could also go for eye color
or the gold-ish shade that their aura has

though the latter might be too similar to echoes? dunno

[vocal basalt]

yeah

hm

[wispy juniper]

one more option is this grey that their head and pincers use

that might be too similar to the menu grey and other icons...

[vocal basalt]

yeah if we're using that may as well use menu grey

[storm knot]

Why not just white?

[vocal basalt]

the default arena icon colour is slightly off-grey

[maiden gust]

use the void worm light gray

[vocal basalt]

wait i meant

off-white

[sharp dust]

Oh it's a little too bright.

[sharp dust]

Wow

[wispy juniper]

WOAH

[sharp dust]

Really well made.

[wispy juniper]

goddamn that looks amazing

[vocal basalt]

thank you

those little stripes make all the difference in differentiating them i think

[vocal basalt]

also will adjust

[maiden gust]

imo the echo icon has the "eyes" too small and too far apart

it should be a diamond lattice

[vocal basalt]

it is a diamond lattice

if they were next to each other it would be incomprehensible

[maiden gust]

yeah but i mean an unseparated one

[storm knot]

What do you mean?

[maiden gust]

let me get an example of what i'm talking about

[vocal basalt]

off-white means it's close to white but not quite

i know what a diamond lattice is

[storm knot]

It is white though.

[wispy juniper]

good color

[vocal basalt]

thats purplish grey

[sharp dust]

Hmm

Let me copy the echo color.

[storm knot]

Oh wait we're talking about the default color I'm actually just suggesting pure white as some creatures use.

[vocal basalt]

ah

i kinda prefer the arena default

[wispy juniper]

i also think the default grey works a little better!

[vocal basalt]

kinda looks like a hollow knight mask actually

[sharp dust]

[storm knot]

Fair I was just thinking of it more as a symbolic color than a close-to-reality one. A little like how Pebbles' neurons are white while they're actually colored in-game.

[vocal basalt]

just gotta

[storm knot]

YES I was surprised no one commented on it

[wispy juniper]

hollow knight real

[vocal basalt]

the white makes it really obvious

ok uhm

i think that's everything?

we need to decide which one we're going with until either i or someone else makes something better though bc i forgor which one we decided on

[wispy juniper]

we settled on 2nd until we get something better, right?

[sharp dust]

@ kip

[sharp dust]

Aw

[maiden gust]

honestly my real issue with the echo icon is it doesn't wrap around the whole head

the pattern is only in the middle 80% give or take

[vocal basalt]

how am i meant to convey the perspective of it wrapping around the head's curves at this scale

[maiden gust]

i don't mean that

[vocal basalt]

unless you mean at the top? because it doesnt do that ingame either

[maiden gust]

hm

maybe the "body color" should be black instead of gold?

[vocal basalt]

no two tone

[maiden gust]

it wouldn't be two-tone

[vocal basalt]

have the body colour be solid black same as the outlines?

[maiden gust]

yeah

[vocal basalt]

no other icon does that and also it would obliterate all of the detail

[maiden gust]

ill do it myself

[sharp dust]

Hmr

[vocal basalt]

is this better lb?

[sharp dust]

I think yes.

[vocal basalt]

[sharp dust]

I like this design imo

[wispy juniper]

like it too! lovely color btw :>

[sharp dust]

I wouldn't like a black thing like mm said

[sharp dust]

The power of the capture tool.

[wispy juniper]

im unsure what they mean by it exactly, guess we'll see

[vocal basalt]

this is what you get if you just paint bucket the body areas so

[ashen plover]

SO GOOD

[wispy juniper]

ikr

they did such a great job!!

[vocal basalt]

thank you !

i think we're pretty much settled on them all, im also gonna take a break coz ive been spriting for 3 hours straight basically

[wispy juniper]

well deserved break there, you made so much great stuff

would it be possible to add any finished icons we've settled on to the pinned message?

[vocal basalt]

thank you!

oh yes ill resend + pin them all

i cant think of anything else that needs an icon so we can probably start implementing them too

[sharp dust]

Oh you're a wiki admin

[vocal basalt]

yus

thats how i can ping wiki

[sharp dust]

I've never noticed

I thought you could because of helper.

[vocal basalt]

i was only promoted relatively recently so

like.. a month and a bit ago at this point i think

so no biggie

[vocal basalt]

ill probably revisit the proto ones at some point but theyre decent enough to go on the page i think

ditto w karma flower

[wispy juniper]

speaking of implementing that kind of stuff, i wanted to ask
when linking things with an icon, should i use inline icon or just the file + a link?
former is a little quicker to write out which is nice, been always using the latter so im uncertain

[vocal basalt]

the rest im pretty happy with

[sharp dust]

The only one that would need to be reworked a little is karma flower I think.

[wispy juniper]

we'll get around to that sometime!

[vocal basalt]

yos

[sharp dust]

yos(hua)

[vocal basalt]

i think at this point writing the inline is faster and also tidier in the source editor too than [file] [link]

we can afford to take an extremely minor performance loss

[wispy juniper]

ill be using that from now on then, thanks for the confirmation

[vocal basalt]

i was only doing it the latter way myself because i didnt realise wikitext has a function where it intergrates appended plurals into links

[storm knot]

I still believe iterators would look a little better with colors but all these icons are great

[maiden gust]

welp... this was not worth the effort

[wispy juniper]

ohh that's what you meant! i see

[sharp dust]

It breaks the color rule sadly.

[vocal basalt]

you have to really balance the level of detail you put into things at this scale

[sharp dust]

[vocal basalt]

the orange outline on the diamond shapes crowds them and makes them look orange instead of yellow

and also makes them appear smaller

[maiden gust]

what if i replaced all of them with yellow

[vocal basalt]

it would look better because then it's fully lineless but also ultimately still break the colour rule

[sharp dust]

I prefer this one tbh

[sharp dust]

the RULE

[vocal basalt]

[wispy juniper]

to be honest i also think that could look a little nicer, though those few hours have been more than enough icons for me

we can always tweak it some in the future

[vocal basalt]

agree

[sharp dust]

I officially proclaim myself as the lawyer of the arena icon color rule

[ashen plover]

yeah non mono would stand out like a sore slug

[sharp dust]

You can rest guys, you deserve it.

[vocal basalt]

i should have gotten a screenshot of that sprite ingame he looks so silly disembodied

no torso king

[sharp dust]

[maiden gust]

cut in half

[vocal basalt]

torn asunder

[maiden gust]

society if rw creatures were easier to sprite

[vocal basalt]

i honestly think the creatures are fine, its just the karma flowers that are frustratingly thin

so it's so hard to strike the balance between "illegible" and "way too thick compared to the thing it's representing"

[wispy juniper]

the cursed karma flower

[vocal basalt]

at least the creatures have like

yknow

mass

[maiden gust]

the creatures don't have mass

the religious sites are no longer in service

now i'm imagining a green lizard pastor

[vocal basalt]

five pebbles is now catholic ✝️

[maiden gust]

why i gave the pope a copy of rain world