deltarune ch3-4 (soiler warning)

[signal grail]

i think its supposed to be emblematic of ralsei being an unreliable narrator

the legend ralsei told us isnt completely accurate to what it says, so neither is the associated music

[rapid flame]

i just find it crazy how ||DIFFERENT i feel listening to the Legend song now. like its the same song but it went from hopeful to almost tragic||

[hasty sapphire]

I have a similar feeling about my castle town

[uneven prism]

Rebuild my kids‼️

[leaden glacier]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[uneven prism]

Thank yoy‼️ ‼️ ‼️

[signal grail]

mike, rebuild my weird route

[hasty sapphire]

True

[dapper shoal]

It's far more interesting to me then Undertale Geno

In Undertale the entire point of the Geno route was to rip you out of the immersion

Remind you that this is a game

However the weird route never breaks immersion

[tame glen]

While Geno Frisk is far more Evil that anything Kris and/or Soul can do at the moment. The fact Weird route is far more personal (you are mainly screwing over 1 person the entire time, 2 if you count the KFC) makes a lot more palpable

the pain you are causing to that small group of people

[dapper shoal]

Three if you consider your unwilling tool

[tame glen]

A yea, the Bathroom scene is soo good for that reason

[hasty sapphire]

It's not doing that directly but it might still end up doing something similar using "your choices don't matter" theme

Not sure what the point of the weird route is for now but I can imagine it being something like "here's your freedom, was it worth it?"

[tame glen]

One of the main themes of Deltarune is control and fate

Weird is all about screwing fate (prophecy) consequences be dammed, to assert control over others. That is why is started by a plot made by Spamton to overthrow queen and become the final boss

[hasty sapphire]

Doesn't seem to change any of the key events so far

Depending on how seriously you take queen's chariot part of the prophecy I guess

It could be that we end up fulfilling the prophecy even in the weird route, then we don't even get the satisfaction of regaining control

[tame glen]

Weird has 1 line at the end of Ch4 where Ralsei says something along the lines of "we may be able to change fate (prophecy) but I don't know it this will not be even worse"

[woven tulip]

are darkners not persons 💔

btw, funny that it seems like people assume you have to fight every enemy on the weird route. you can spare every single enemy in ch1, ||ch3, and ch4||

[hasty sapphire]

If I'm playing a bad guy why not go all in

[woven tulip]

||well, you literally can’t fight some of them at all ||

||it’s impossible to beat tenna, roulx kaard and weather things, jackenstein, or titan exclusively with violence||

||gerson statue too, but ralsei kills it for you anyway, so it counts, i suppose ||

[tame glen]

Let's ask an expert:
"Hey PRINCE of the DARKNERS, are DARKNERS REAL?"
||Ralsei: No ||

[woven tulip]

the only darkner who thinks like this, despite there being darkeners who know as good that they are objects in the light world

[hasty sapphire]

Ramb gives a similar vibe tbh

[tame glen]

And being the weirdest one that a lot of people think is not even one

Due to all the Teleporting arround nonscense

[woven tulip]

||tenna is, like, very casual about this ||

[hasty sapphire]

Darkner Sans is real

[tame glen]

Darkner Sans is just a fangame Sans with 1000 different impossible to dodge attacks

[woven tulip]

sans in the dark world would look like papyrus

actually, i kinda wonder if there would be any other characters speaking with a special font

seems like the only text quirk that is completely unused aside of sans

[hasty sapphire]

Toby is saving it for Gaster reveal

This should count technically

[woven tulip]

wait, actually the voice has a different font. and characters ||in the videogame in tv world||, also i think the characters in last two egg locations.

though, it probably doesn’t count, since it’s more about the whole dialogue style being different

[woven tulip]

that’s an image

[hasty sapphire]

Fonts are just a bunch of images of letters

[woven tulip]

[tame glen]

Are you disrespecting the WEIRD FONTS enjoyer ||The ORIGINAL Starwalker (it uses 1 Tenna-style word at the start of the chapter)||

[hasty sapphire]

Speaking of voice
Did anyone try to split Susie's voice at the end of ch4 into words?

Is it even possible, not sure how voicing in deltarune works

[woven tulip]

at max you probably could get length of the phrase

i don’t think it’s dependent on specific letters, idk though

[hasty sapphire]

Not specific letters but you could get the general sentence layout with word lengths

[leaden glacier]

I MISS TENNAAAAAAAA

i miss mike

[leaden glacier]

go my tennar who i like

[crimson wyvern]

tenna

[leaden glacier]

tenna !!

[civic mason]

its great its peam
iiiits t.v. tiiiime!!

[uneven prism]

<@&710573725765861376> inside me

[woven tulip]

evil new theory:
lightners don’t actually change appearance in the dark world, but rather it’s darkners of them, and lightners control them like puppets, ||and they are only free when the lightner dies||.

wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a real theory

[civic mason]

||if darkners ar objects or based off of lightners controling them if the lightner dies wuldn they jus vanish||

||unles darkners aren based off objects an i tupid||

[woven tulip]

||gerson’s dust ||

[civic mason]

||what if his dust was properly buried or taken away *(im asuming most monsers don jus hold on to the dust of their deceased loved ones but i culd be wrong)||

[woven tulip]

||then gerson wouldn’t be in the dark world .||

[civic mason]

||so if a lightner dies then they dark world thingy vanishes (unles their dust or any remains ar stil there)?||

[woven tulip]

actually, it’s not really a serious theory . ||but, though, i’m fairly sure the dust would create a darkner that is, probably, identical to the dark world form of a lightner.||

actually, well probably yeah. since darkners of similar objects turn into similar darkners . ||i guess, having gerson’s dust, hammer, and a photo is enough for it to count as a thing similar to a monster. well, why else would gerson’s darkner form resemble a monster.||

or maybe the fountain doesn’t care ||whether the lightner is alive . we didn’t really get a lot of explanation of gerson’s case ||

but also, darkners don’t cease to exist if you move them out of a dark world, you move lancer with you through the light world, in a form of a card!

||so the reason why gerson wouldn’t appear is because of not being in a place with a fountain||

this actually leads to a question of how darkners work when there isn’t a fountain. ||since they seem to be aware of what happened to their light world object forms, and they have seemingly dark world stories too, like how spamton and tenna were business partners.||

[grand slate]

This is the chapter 12 antagonist Trust

[civic mason]

||wuld gerson turn to stone like rouxls an lancer in chaper 2?||

[quartz spindle]

Hello delta ruiners

[steep ridge]

he do be groovin tho

[vivid verge]

||https://youtu.be/LUtLA2ZFM2c|| the route

[mild hull]

this one isnt server appropriate methinks

[vivid verge]

my b

[vivid verge]

what if it turns out the big 1 ending is that kris and susie never turn in their project and they get a f.

like thats the big ending

[woven tulip]

"kris, i know you and susie saved the w- world, but, eh, you didn’t finish your project" — alphys in ch7

[clear sparrow]

just fouund out chap 3 logo gets subtly changes after you beat it

spoiler potentially idk

[rapid flame]

||went to the dentist||

||hey wait it also vaguely resembles the knights smile eye thing||

[clear sparrow]

yea thats what its meant to be

[rapid flame]

||deltarune fans when they see a pixellated white crescent:||

[clear sparrow]

the file name is ||"chapter3logo_knight"|| or something like that

[hasty sapphire]

When the night is late

[dapper shoal]

With the ||apple scene|| this seems more and more likely

[hasty sapphire]

Why specifically that scene

[dapper shoal]

||basically in the normal route freedom is given to you slowly but at the end you'll be satisfied (like reaching the core of a apple) but in the weird route you are forcibly taking freedom to quickly and early (like the weird route apple scene and eating the core)||

[hasty sapphire]

Welp

People have a much darker interpretation of that scene

||I don't think we will be given freedom in the normal route, so far it's all about Susie's choices that do matter, not ours||

[woven tulip]

chapter 5 ending credits will feature an alt version of don’t forget with the lines

"...
there’s a friend inside me whose
eyes still glowing pink and gold
with the tail
that follow you should not

don’t forget
||it’s dess who is the knight||"

it’s true, my friend works in deltarune and knows tony fox

[signal grail]

my dad is the ceo of toby fox

[quartz spindle]

This is relevant
https://youtu.be/Y-ygbqWPfpM?si=gOaDKugllZQ46SX8

[civic mason]

oo I sent this earlier :>

[civic mason]

the roaring knight is heats flamesman

[vivid verge]

FRIEND FRIEND FRIEND!

[vivid verge]

Id say spearmaster is more suited for kris

[crimson wyvern]

i think they mostly going off colors

wawawawawawawawawa :3

[tame glen]

||He gay for Spamton G-Mail Spamton||

[vivid verge]

i thought he wouldn't be because he's a crt and also has like abandoment issues, so he wouldn't like those "new" fancy flatscreens.

[steep ridge]

I just realized that Deltarune's A Dark Zone theme has Undertale Spooktune in it

[rapid flame]

for some reason it kept making me think of that one "really bad" haunted house spiderman song thingy so I went back and listened to it and they were nothing alike

[leaden glacier]

credit art you post, please and thank you!
https://www.tumblr.com/dakaakula/786266457650741249/my-first-ever-tenna-fan-art
(unless this is actually yours, in which case, sorry!)

[jade echo]

IM OLD

[grand slate]

Wait

Shit

Wrong image

Fuck

[heady fossil]

[grand slate]

There

Much better!

[rapid flame]

evil horse

[vivid verge]

https://youtu.be/luzwqKz376g i can't believe it

[woven tulip]

is it from ch4?

[tame glen]

Clearly it's that one character from Ch3

[dapper shoal]

This fuckin image cracks me up

[leaden glacier]

please source your art!
https://x.com/Mikelocesterla1/status/1940489763821391897
you can use a reverse image searcher if you don’t know the source immediately

[dapper shoal]

I'll keep it in mind sorry bout that

[woven tulip]

i just got a random idea

ch4 ||the titan’s theme is "guardian", even though ralsei say titans are pure destruction. but what if titans exist to protect from formation of deeper, more unstable "dark" worlds inside of a dark world.||

[leaden glacier]

are you perhaps u/ThunderMax5827

[woven tulip]

no 💔

tricky tony made us think the same theories i guess

[leaden glacier]

context: ||https://www.reddit.com/r/Undertale/comments/1lxrnaz/maybe_titans_are_not_villains/||

[hasty sapphire]

I don't know what any of that means but I really hope we'll get to hear more of guardian motif

[woven tulip]

||titans become a common enemy in ch5 and you can recruit them to your town!|| /j

[hasty sapphire]

||One of my random ideas was that titans being dark fountains still reflect the will of their creator so later in the game we will create our own titan to fight for us||

||Imagine ch2 punchout but it's your titan vs knight's||

[woven tulip]

||tv in the flower shop would make a tenna look alike ||

||susie: hey! is it tenna?
ant: who’s tenna, it’s me, john ant tv||

[uneven prism]

Mother 3

[hasty sapphire]

Checks out

[leaden glacier]

damn power strip is making me british <- used “bloody twat” for the first time today

[woven tulip]

it’s over when you would start spelling "color" with "u"

[leaden glacier]

🥹

[quartz spindle]

I've posted this before but man he knows

He is precious and i want him to know I care about him though

[rapid flame]

as the soul i think we should be able to say HII HELLOO

[clear sparrow]

what is this ralsei sprite called in the files i wonder

[leaden glacier]

i can try and check but my copy of umt hates me for some reason and refuses to load like half the data

[clear sparrow]

is getting the sprites not as easy as going into a folder

[leaden glacier]

you should try browsing local files :emotion42:

[leaden glacier]

i. Think i may be an idiot. Whoopsies !

yup that explains a lot

[rapid flame]

yeah pretty much every game comes packed up and you need to do various things to open said pack

[clear sparrow]

every game ive played so far has things as simple as sprites in a folder andnot packed up

[quartz spindle]

Here's an interesting idea, wonder if ||we will see the prophecy actually take place in the lightworld.||

So far there's a few things that could happen in the light world but it's all actually happened in the dark world i think.

[leaden glacier]

spr_ralsei_wonder_left

[leaden glacier]

anyways it’s not difficult since someone already did all the work for you, it’s just getting undertale mod tool and opening the data.win file for the chapter you wanna look at

for. windows at least idk about any other platform

zzx

[clear sparrow]

chat i need to know where this is used

[leaden glacier]

uhhhh i have a suspicion but give me a minute to confirm

[signal grail]

the only stuff accessible is music and sounds

[leaden glacier]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHlfIur3_9E ("outdated" because it's now accessible according to the description

[clear sparrow]

peak

[signal grail]

this internally being called "board zelda" is funny

[clear sparrow]

btw has anyone else gotten the dialogue where susie mentions the ocean song or whatever

i havent heard anyone talk about it buut i guess its not really that interesting

[leaden glacier]

uhhhhhh ive gotten some of it but i kept accidentally pressing shift and ending it

[clear sparrow]

i stood in that spot unmoving for like

5 minutes

just to make sure ihavent missed anything

lol

[leaden glacier]

ah

mood

[clear sparrow]

i do wonder where the whole ocean motif is gonna lead

with the vessel creation background being an edited picture of the ocean and all that

[rapid flame]

in chapter 19 sans dies by drowning

[crimson wyvern]

good

[meager hatch]

Good

[steep ridge]

wb papyrus

[steep ridge]

[mild hull]

fountains are made in a way that kinda implies we're opening a hole that darkness is coming out of, so it has to come from somewhere

I assume that is the ocean

[signal grail]

bespoke: the ocean floor is constantly a dark world and it has to be BANISHED in chapter 7 😼

[clear sparrow]

i mean

the ocean floor IS dark

[lone tusk]

we need a mod for deltarune that replaces all the characters with rainworld characters

kris is rivulet ralsei is monk and susie is artificer

[clear sparrow]

vanilla slugcats would fit better

[mild hull]

yeah I guess surv hunter monk fits pretty well for the main trio

[clear sparrow]

you would have to

change the colors of thee

character boxes or whateve

[rapid flame]

(chapter 4) ||making all 1 million billion sprites for piano rivulet:||

[hasty sapphire]

||Maybe that's what titan is guarding||

[mild hull]

||why do you think the titan is 'guarding' something?||

[hasty sapphire]

Ost

[mild hull]

I wonder if C3 would've been more appreciated if it came out on its own instead of with C4

[lone tusk]

mm

[rapid flame]

||song title is "GUARDIAN"||

[leaden glacier]

i forgot heal prayer outside of battle heals like. exactly 100 it seems ? at least in chapter 1, don’t think it’s possible to do in the rest but i might be wrong

[uneven prism]

Yeah isnt it only possible after Susie vs lancer

Since that battle ends differently

[leaden glacier]

CORRECT!!!!!!!! you have won $0,000

[opal grotto]

Shayy is playing Ch1+2 at GDQ rn

[leaden glacier]

oh damn

[opal grotto]

Could be ch3+4 with enough donations :3

https://www.twitch.tv/gamesdonequick

[crimson wyvern]

erm,,

peak https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP9mB1sVJz4

[steep ridge]

me listening to this like

[hasty sapphire]

Peak motif

Shame it gets overshadowed by dark sanctuary

[signal grail]

is it not appreciated

[hasty sapphire]

It's criticized for pacing issues and labeled as a filler

[signal grail]

😭

media literacy

[grand slate]

Forkgive me for the bad crop, that how I found it

[gaunt hamlet]

I'm Old! (ch4)

[rapid flame]

really? honestly the chapter four soundtrack was my favorite as a whole, it felt like one very long interconnected song honestly

[dapper shoal]

Isn't that the entire point

||Chapter 3 is quite literally Tenna stalling for time||

[hasty sapphire]

Don't know, other people are having issues with pacing, not me

Though if you add sword route to that I'd agree it gets repetitive but that's not mandatory

[rapid flame]

wait nvm i read the whole conversation wrong rip. what I get for talking at four am

chapter 3 is definitely a change of pace but even when we just had one and two people were saying that the same pattern of "one Big boss, but you can also find a secret boss if you backtrack and such" would get repetitive. i think it works i had fun with it

[signal grail]

i think its just down to whether you like or dislike zelda sections and the minigames

if you dont like or understand them then theyre obviously going to feel way worse and longer than gameplay youre already used to

[clear sparrow]

The thing I dislike about c3 is you lack freedom to do anything any time

[hasty sapphire]

I don't dislike them but having to do 4 zelda sequences with very little breaks is a lot

[clear sparrow]

it's ridiculously easy to accidentally skip a step and miss the sword route/egg

In other chapters you're rather free to do the secret boss anytime

In c1-c2 it's right before you fight the main boss of the chapter

in c3 you have to do the Zelda minigame after each round, and if you forget it once, the secret route is over for you

🥹

and it's the only time you can actively lose access to the path

By either not getting a good enough rank or not being able to buy it

I can definitely see people being a bit disappointed if c3 was a standalone experience and not released with c4

[hasty sapphire]

Good thing sword route isn't mandatory

[signal grail]

i dont think thats really a problem honestly

if you care about secrets youre probably going to be replaying the game anyway

[hasty sapphire]

Also ch4 is arguably worse in terms of locking you out of secret boss

[signal grail]

i agree

[supple belfry]

ngl im waiting for the blue heart mechanic to be introduced to deltarune.

unless...

also purple heart mechanic when

[hasty sapphire]

I'd prefer more new mechanics like ch3 boss

[leaden glacier]

final froggit wall hop attack where you stick to the wall /sillyjoke

[woven tulip]

what would they think of the original chapter 3

[woven tulip]

is it because almost all share leitmotifs

[woven tulip]

||not in ch4 either, although it’s pretty easy to find the secret just by exploring the location (and it’s hinted by "the axe" dialogue)||

||but in ch3 it’s locked behind the highest* rank of boards, the highest rank is almost never something important, so it’s kinda easy to think it’s just yet another easter egg room instead of something important. alternatively, you may think that it wouldn’t matter if you get s rank only the second board.||

[clear sparrow]

i disagree

cause the game literally like

gives you a hint

that theres something here

[woven tulip]

tbh, it’s the only secret boss i found on my own and completely accidentally

[leaden glacier]

||the intended experience is to go gambling for 2+ hours to buy it off the pippins || /sillyj

[woven tulip]

i mean that ||"so there is two boards? so i can just try another time, it’s the same room anyway"||

[leaden glacier]

spamton was pretty easy to find given he’s initially a forced encounter (assuming ||you aren’t doing weird route on your first playthrough,|| which i feel is a fair assumption to make) and then gives you directions to his shop and tells you about the basement stuff. like he just sort of guides you the whole way

[hasty sapphire]

And yet every other streamer I watched missed on ch4 shadow crystal by progressing the main plot too soon

Meanwhile ch3 crystal you can get by just reloading the save

[woven tulip]

i think i just ignored going to the shop first time i played 💔

but still ch4 is the easiest to find

[hasty sapphire]

For me jevil was the hardest to find, I always forget how to get to one of the key pieces

Ch4 is the easiest yeah

[leaden glacier]

i’m still gonna say c2 is easiest (at least for me personally, though i did find both c2 and c4 on my first playthrough) given the previous reasoning of him guiding you. at least assuming you aren’t ignoring the shady guy who’s clearly pretty weird

honestly c4 was fun to find on my own

possibly REALLY VAGUE c4 secret boss spoilers??? ||how did my phone get octogenarian from me typoing octagon???||

[woven tulip]

spamton says a lot of weird things, kinda easy to assume it’s another meaningless statement

[leaden glacier]

i guess maybe? the directions just, feel like. something you can actually do compared to a lot of his dialogue

[hasty sapphire]

If I was playing ch2 blind I'd either miss the shop or the basement entrance area

[sleek pendant]

gang I played through chapter 3

[woven tulip]

you have to talk with spamton in the shop though

i think i just didn’t go there, i don’t remember tbh

[leaden glacier]

he does tell you to meet him in the shop at the end of the regular battle

[woven tulip]

which is an advice you probably shouldn’t take from somebody who just stole 50 dark dollars from you

[leaden glacier]

idk i am prone to listening to weird guys i probably shouldn’t listen to in video games

[leaden glacier]

but consdier: my terrible judgment

also it’s 40 /silly

[woven tulip]

[leaden glacier]

i very frequently remember things i. Really really really don’t need to /silly

[leaden glacier]

nevermind you were right i’m a fake fan. they’re sending me to the z rank room.

[sleek pendant]

banished

[dapper shoal]

I just forgor my first playthrough

[dapper shoal]

Okay but considering everything else going on in cyberworld I wouldn't blame someone for forgetting about the dumpster man

[hardy marsh]

Spoilers ch4 love this disgusting creature

[woven tulip]

ralsei brutally murdering a darkner

[hardy marsh]

Wonder what's the deal with that

Did it get corrupted due to the darkness being darker than dark

[clear sparrow]

thats what my guess was

before i even finished the fight and it was revealed it wasnt actually gerson lol

by the way what happens if you try to hit the haunted armor

does it dodge or something

or do you just miss

i guess that'd sorta make sense

[hardy marsh]

The first attack (Susie)
is scripted and yeah it dodges, if YOU attack it dodges the first time, Susie calls you out on attacking him and then she proceeds to stand in your way if you try to attack

So yeah you miss if you attack but Susie prevents the player from doing it more than once anyway

[woven tulip]

attacks in the dark miss

you can’t attack jackenstein either

[clear sparrow]

ralsei casually landing a hit in the dark 🚬

i mean

he is a prince of the dark i guess

[woven tulip]

maybe ralsei just saw ||the light from susie’s spell||

[clear sparrow]

maybe idk

oh also

one thing i noticed about the sword route

that door is literally kris's headband

yes i somehow missed this

[green anvil]

||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-ygbqWPfpM|| yall were talkin about turning the fun gang into slugs, right?

[civic mason]

(this is the 3rd time this has been sent here i think)
(wawawawa wawawawa wawa)

[civic mason]

(what if wen yu got karma 4 in rainworl gaster called it his ranworl)

[vivid verge]

Chapter 5 leak 100% serious

[leaden glacier]

i’m the dead pixel in the boss arena i can confirm

[vivid verge]

Starwalker

[civic mason]

(theyre the original gaywalker)

[vivid verge]

You have to fight him in the snowgrave route.

[signal grail]

im the dead pixel in gravity falls x deltarune

[rapid flame]

maybe odd but this was one of my favorite moments in the game. it was so. °o°

[hardy marsh]

Same

[woven tulip]

stargrave route

[patent pollen]

chat do you think bill cipher would have the freedom motif

[patent pollen]

i think we saw the same video

[uneven prism]

chat i have a Big Lore question. in Tennas intro he says that hes glooby and never groovy and that you can't get him from an egg. However, in his fight he admits to sometimes being glooby. Would this mean that you CAN get Tenna from an egg?

[woven tulip]

i know what rain world characters would but we are imprisoned by #offtopic-agenderal

[signal grail]

hes the jevil of gravity falls

[mild hull]

||the tvdinners are canonically made of pipis||

[rapid flame]

||tenna hatched from an egg like a baby bird||

[steep ridge]

This route is peeving me off
I'm the original /silly

[weary granite]

I saw the vid! I liked it but I think it could have been a bit better (pic is my reason why)

In a lot*

Why did I write long?!??

[weary granite]

[mighty steppe]

ch3 egg route is actually not that bad

do you guys think the point of the eggs is requiring outside knowledge to get them?

[weary granite]

Chapter 3 is in essense showing players how to get all of them

Its complicated because it points you to all the others

[mighty steppe]

really vague hints

[weary granite]

Its very similar to the secret boss

[mighty steppe]

in what way?

[weary granite]

Yeah, vague and hard to tell

[weary granite]

Its meant to show yoy something

||The secret boss, aka the sword route or the secret minigame, was meant to show you a different part of the story, with the minigame's case showing us how to access the weird route (and detailing what it entails), it is cryptic but puts the idea in your head for a different playthrough||

Both show you something you can do in a different save since you are already too far to do it in that save

[mighty steppe]

||I'm not sure hinting the player about the snowgrave route was the primary intention there, I think it was more about making the player feel uneasy that the game is onto them, since like 90% of players know about the snowgrave route||

it's hard to explain

[weary granite]

||90% already know, it is for the 10% going in truly blind, it may not be about us for most of it but we can still garner other aspects of it

This most likely was supposed to be the natural way to find out about both||

[mighty steppe]

maybe, idk though

[weary granite]

Who knows, for all we know Toby made it cause he was drunk

[mighty steppe]

fr

||"I go to sell the donuts" is an insanely vague hint that could mean almost anything||

of course "walk where the stars don't shine" is very vague too

we all looked that one up I think

some of these hints are just garbage

[weary granite]

"I go to sell donuts" since its next to the donut shops

"Walk where the sun dont shine" is meant to convey the very very corner of the map where Spamton gives ||the thorn ring|| and in general is hard to find

Both are interesting cases, but the hints suffice

When I first saw them I made the connection

[mighty steppe]

walk where the stars don't shine isn't in ch2

it's a hint about a key part in ch1

[weary granite]

I misremembered it then, but here are all the riddles

The dumpster one is obvious, the cool by the windowsill refers to thr chapter 4 egg

[mighty steppe]

*chapter 4 i think

[weary granite]

The chapter 5 egg implies there is a field we can go too

Chapter 4 yeah

Typo

But it directly refers to the ||100th whatever window||

[weary granite]

Also the dates are very interesting, though it makes sense

All of this is happening in a week D:

Weird route happened in the span of two days

[mighty steppe]

I wonder how long the entirety of ch3 took in real life

cause it starts around midnight

but ||kris still has plenty of time to mess around before ch4 starts||

[weary granite]

Most likely 3 hours? Im assuming each round lasted an hour each (including the final part)

[mighty steppe]

kris must be very sleep deprived

[weary granite]

Oh very

Though, in the chapter one final cutscene they quite literally goes around town at night, so I dont think he gets enough sleep as is

[vivid verge]

by @DegoDraws on twitter

[gaunt hamlet]

update: ||gerson|| canonically wins vs margit confirmed

[leaden glacier]

assuming you’re referring to kris here (since idk who else you could be referring to) kris uses they/them if you were not referring to kris i apologise

[weary granite]

Smh smh

[leaden glacier]

now face my 47 citations blast!!!

💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 kaboom

[woven tulip]

can never happen if you never use gendered pronouns at all in your speech /j

[woven tulip]

i just checked how much i use them in this server

a whole two times since august 2024, and one of them is from a quote

[uneven prism]

Chapter 5 is gonna start at 6am in kris's bedroom, Kris is gonna rip out the SOUL and look to the camera and say "My name is Kris Dreemurr and I am Nonbinary and my pronouns are They/Them"

It's true Toby told me himself

[woven tulip]

toby can... talk? i remember you’re annoying dogs, so toby canonically can’t talk, which makes it canon.

[hasty sapphire]

Did you forger Toby tellng us that Jockington grows the beard

[flat citrus]

||I hate the knights corridor attack||

[mild hull]

ok deltarune chat you can officially deltarune everywhere but it has to be spoilered

like, any C3/4 content needs to be spoilered outside of here

[rapid flame]

deltarune chat breaches containment

[jagged hinge]

im spoilers! (For chapter 4)

[rapid flame]

||I'm old!||

||anyway am i the only one slightly worried we're giving all the powerful shadow crystals to one guy||

[hasty sapphire]

Seam shop battle is real

[signal grail]

chapter 2 and 3 were originally supposed to release together (i think?) and you also kind of have to consider deltarune as a constant experience, there are going to be a lot of people who play the game without years long breaks inbetween every chapter

which means you play chapter 2 and then are met with the chapter 3 route detailing an ice character that you control after being put in a location extremely similar to cyber city

[hasty sapphire]

Weren't 2-5 supposed to be one drop

[mighty steppe]

that would be CRAZY

idk though

[signal grail]

that wouldve been crazy

yeah

[hasty sapphire]

I think people going insane making theories based on incomplete info is crazier

Imagine what kind of theories about Kris and knight we would have if we didn't get ch4

I almost feel like this is a part of intended experience and Toby was lying about wanting to release the entire game at once

[leaden glacier]

i mean it’s fun though isn’t it?

most of us will end up being completely wrong about a lot of stuff, but until then we can play with toys to our hearts content

[hasty sapphire]

Yeah I'm not saying it's a bad thing

[quartz spindle]

God i love the meme of just dropping the freedom motif in random songs

Bruh i woke up being hit with a post of the freedom motif in the us anthem

Also the joke of people making additional "the sanctuary" tracks.
We're at the 7th sanctuary now

[woven tulip]

it probably was supposed to be more chapters at once (still not the whole game because of 6-7).

it’s more likely some parts of chapters and their endings were adjusted a bit .

[hasty sapphire]

We still don't even have a confirmation that ch6-7 are real

[woven tulip]

half way mark?

[hasty sapphire]

I guess

[woven tulip]

and it was stated that next chapters, so at least 6th should be

[hasty sapphire]

But did Toby ever directly acknowledge that the game will be 7 chapters or talk about ch6-7

At least we got soft confirmation for ch6

But if Toby leaves the game there and says the community should mod in their own ending it'd suck ass I think

[woven tulip]

||true! that’s why gerson doesn’t say anything about chapters 6 or 7, you should get the white pen and write your own chapters ||

[hasty sapphire]

||He did say there was one more chapter after 5th but that's it||

[rapid flame]

||maybe so we cant make predictions ||

[hasty sapphire]

What's the fun in that

[rapid flame]

true...

[supple belfry]

community mods the chp7 ending to be a monster dating sim

[civic mason]

(jelyfish)

(I just misread mr. tenna saying "neo programs" as "neo pronouns" )

[leaden glacier]

(tv time)

[hasty sapphire]

T rank reqs on those are brutal

[civic mason]

(great job!!)

[leaden glacier]

thank you!!

[leaden glacier]

real ones go for the ? rank /j

why does blood crushers have to specify they're a band. What.

[leaden glacier]

HAAAAHHHAAAAAAAAAA

[uneven prism]

I'm gonna Deltarune in #online-safety

[leaden glacier]

c3 secret ||i NEED to draw that mantle freak.||

||it would enjoy a burger. this is true. to me||

[mild hull]

pretty sure the original plan was full game after C1

[hasty sapphire]

I vaguely remember some mention of ch6-7 coming out later

[signal grail]

chapter 1 and 2 being free is crazy

[hasty sapphire]

Ok yeah it was full release plan at first, changed to ch3-5

[signal grail]

🐷

[alpine estuary]

the original oink

[signal grail]

the oinkriginal

oh wrong channel i think

[clear sparrow]

i think only 3-4 releasing is neat

cause 4 is the halfway point

and we get the epic gaster speech at the end

[mild hull]

I mean, that probably exists because of 4 being the current final chapter tbf

we'd get something like that for chapter 5 if it was the final rn

[clear sparrow]

chapter 5 isnt the halfway point thoug

i think the speech being after c4 and the huge lore drop

just makes sense

[hasty sapphire]

I doubt ch4 is a halfway point either tbh

[signal grail]

how

[hasty sapphire]

3 more chapters left (allegedly) and ch4 was a chonker, feels more like 2/3

[cursive ravine]

People think susie won’t like it when it’s revealed that Kris has been being controlled by the soul but personally I think she will go “YEAH TWO FRIENDS!”

[hasty sapphire]

I don't think Susie will be involved in Kris vs soul conflict but if she was I doubt she'd just ignore the possessive nature of the soul and not question who she really became friends with

[cursive ravine]

I know it’s a joke

Also what you mean she won’t

I’m pretty sure Kris is trying to hide it

And its confirmed she doesn’t like secrets

I don’t know what you mean she won’t

[hasty sapphire]

Good thing there's another secret Kris is hiding that the story is building up the reveal for

[cursive ravine]

Just because there is another doesn’t mean they won’t show that one either

It’s a big plot point

And obviously Ralsei know too

So if Susie learns both were lying she will get angered

I just can’t see a world she doesn’t learn

[hasty sapphire]

I can

[cursive ravine]

Well tha world has a very low chance of happening

[hasty sapphire]

I can see her learning what soul is but not all the details of it basically overwriting Kris's personality

[cursive ravine]

Also guys I wouldn’t say Kris has no initiative

There are multiple times where Kris just doesn’t do what the soul says

yes Kris has a reason to listen

Probably

[hasty sapphire]

If more characters get involved in this conflict I'm not sure where this will go, do others just decide that Kris getting possessed is bad and somehow banish the soul out of the game?

That's very unsatisfying for the player

I imagine Kris and soul will just start getting along sometime close to the end and this stops being a problem

[cursive ravine]

Well there is a way to go with that without banishing and that’s the other secret

[hasty sapphire]

I can't really think of a good resolution for this conflict so I assume this won't become a conflict at all

[cursive ravine]

It will

You just aren’t a writer like Toby

[leaden glacier]

i feel like the player Will get banished though

[cursive ravine]

Eh

I doubt banished they probably will just leave after the story and stuff

[leaden glacier]

like. i feel like it’s decently likely we’re the angel or something. because the angel is described as getting banished and finally meeting with its desire

and who else could be banished (of course ending the story) only to then meet with its “desire”

[cursive ravine]

Like guys we aren’t Toby like we might not think of something but that doesn’t mean Toby hasn’t

Toby is probably smarter and better at writing

[hasty sapphire]

I agree but I'd hate if the way it happens is everyone turning against us after all we've done just because soul possesses Kris

[leaden glacier]

i mean like. to be fair if some otherworldly deity esque thing was possessing your friend, no matter how benevolent, i feel like you’d also probably be a bit ticked minimum

[cursive ravine]

But the ticked off part will probably be overshadowed by Kris working for the knight

[hasty sapphire]

That's a separate thing

[cursive ravine]

So if they see the soul helping them

They probably won’t banish us

[hasty sapphire]

Eh, everyone turning against Kris would suck even more I think

[cursive ravine]

Well it’s gonna happen

They are literally working for the other side

Atleast Susie will get mad

[leaden glacier]

i think everyone is going to have Very complicated feelings towards us and kris

[hasty sapphire]

And it seems like Kris isn't exactly willing to cooperate with the knight anyway so there's room for more peaceful resolution

[cursive ravine]

Ralsei already knows

[cursive ravine]

Yeah

That includes us

Like I can’t see them learning about Kris being on the other side without them learning about us

[hasty sapphire]

I can

[cursive ravine]

Man I feel like there are so many contrarians in this server

[hasty sapphire]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/455836779560304650/1217509054323228733/animal.gif

[weary granite]

deltarune ch3-4 (soiler warning)

[cursive ravine]

Woah

[weary granite]

Ahh cant delete that

Dammit

[leaden glacier]

i still hold by the idea we’re the angel tbh. which would lead to us getting banished but i’m not exactly sure of the circumstances that lead to it

[weary granite]

Kris very much is not all in there with the plan

However, I feel learning about Kris's true intention will most likely be bundled with the fun gang knowing about the heart

[cursive ravine]

YES

[cursive ravine]

No because the angels heaven is the roaring and we don’t like that I think

[weary granite]

We dont know what the angel's heaven is

[leaden glacier]

yeah

like it might be the roaring? but even then like.

[weary granite]

Imo, it is the game itself, with the angel being implied as us

Banishing the angel's heaven may just be closing the game lol

[cursive ravine]

Well it’s put off as a bad thing and the roaring is a bad thing so it seems the angel is about the roaring so I doubt it

Plus we wouldn’t want bad things to happen to deltarune universe

[civic mason]

(helo delta runes)

[cursive ravine]

Like the angel is come off as the bad guy against the fun gang

We are not against the fun gang

[leaden glacier]

i think there’s something to be said about (c3 secret) ||the mantle game and how it reflects how we’re playing a game. games are frequently escapism, so who’s to say our “heaven” isn’t when it starts getting serious and easier to get into?||

[cursive ravine]

We basically are the secret fourth member of the fun gang

[leaden glacier]

but we would want to be entertained, no?

[leaden glacier]

hello!!

[cursive ravine]

I feel like the only reason people think the soul is the angel is we have no other candidates

[hasty sapphire]

Noelle

[cursive ravine]

And I think they probably will just be someone or something we don’t know

[hasty sapphire]

There's a ton of angel parallels with Noelle

[cursive ravine]

Yes but do you want to see the fun gang sad and hurt

No

[leaden glacier]

i mean i feel like. “the angel banished will finally meet with its desire” is. Very odd if you consider anyone but the player.

[weary granite]

I feel the angel is the antithesis of the dark, and we show properties of angelic figures and symbolically are one
(We glow and we are hinted in the prophecy with the black screen and us having the angel doll being put on us)

[cursive ravine]

Well it could be someone we don’t know

[leaden glacier]

not necessarily, but it can be part of a good story

[cursive ravine]

Like with the knight I think saying that is a contrarian thing but with this it’s the strongest candidate

[cursive ravine]

Yeah but would you prefer the story to have the fun gang sad or happy

[weary granite]

It would feel weird if a completely new character showed up as the angel imo, most characters who were built up for the serious part of the story doesnt really fit it

[cursive ravine]

We are the soul

[cursive ravine]

The angel just could be the angel

It doesn’t have to be a person in the town

[leaden glacier]

both honestly, there’s a reason tragedies have funny moments after all. if you have a straight shot of just pure joy or pure sadness for hours upon hours both of those become numb

[cursive ravine]

And most of us want to see them happy

[hasty sapphire]

Did you tell Ralsei to keep smiling

[cursive ravine]

No

[cursive ravine]

Yeah but the soul is all of us

[weary granite]

It can but it would resonate with people and would tie in well with the story

All the other characters in the propjecy are present, it wouldnt make sense if this angel hasnt been present as well

[heady fossil]

Key word, most

[cursive ravine]

It wouldn’t make sense if I am the angel because I want the characters to be happy

[leaden glacier]

yeah showing a presumably major character after the halfway mark seems a bit cheap

[cursive ravine]

I think it’s fine to theorize that the angel is a character in the town I’m just saying why I think that’s wrong

[hasty sapphire]

Gaster believers in shambles

[leaden glacier]

i mean, we’re very clearly limited in our options. just because we’re the angel doesn’t necessarily mean we have all the power, just a lot

[cursive ravine]

Yes but the angels heaven is supposed to be what they like

[weary granite]

They could still be happy and you could go

Maybe Kris and the gang doesnt like being controlled by an angel and they want to vanish you, maybe they HAVE to vanish you to complete the prophecy

It doesnt have to be a good or bad thing, but all things have to end at some point

[cursive ravine]

And I would like for them to be happy

[hasty sapphire]

Yeah idk how me getting banished from the game is something I desire

[cursive ravine]

But the angel doesn’t want to vanish

But if I had to vanish for them to be happy I would

[weary granite]

Where does it say that again?

[cursive ravine]

If the heaven has to be banished that means the fun gang probably doesn’t like it

And if the fun gang doesn’t like it I don’t like it

Which doesn’t make sense if I am the angel

Like I don’t like it when the characters I like are sad

I’m not a spiderman writer

[weary granite]

We are basing it on assumptions

We shouldnt do that for a proper analysis of the lore imo

[hasty sapphire]

Maybe if by "banish" you mean we get to see an ending we're satisfied with and end the "connection" to the game's world I could see that

[weary granite]

It can be twisted and turned into anything

[hasty sapphire]

But usually banish is something negative

[cursive ravine]

Yes

But still it doesn’t make sense if we are the angel

And they are making the fun gang sad

If I don’t want that

[weary granite]

Even then, twisting of words and phrases is part of prophecy stories

Nothing will ever be exactly as said and the context and tone are all missing from the texts at hand

[cursive ravine]

I just think it doesn’t make sense

Because I don’t want to be on the opposite side

[hasty sapphire]

We're only halfway into the game and we still don't really know what we're doing besides following some prophecy, you may not want to hurt anyone but end up doing so anyway

[weary granite]

I think whether the fun gang is happy or sad deoends on the route you take

Normal route most likely is gomna be the happiest one, though a little melancholy

I dont want to think how screwed up the weird route is gonna be

[cursive ravine]

But if we are talking about theory’s I get to go off what I have now

[cursive ravine]

Ok but I’m the player

[hasty sapphire]

Maybe whatever Kris is trying to do could result in a better outcome for the gang and we're just getting in their way

[cursive ravine]

I want them to be happy

[weary granite]

Someone is going to be hurt

Susie already has been, but there is so much more

Character development has to happen, pain whether emotion or physical will happen no matter what

[leaden glacier]

you’re a player

[cursive ravine]

No I’m THE player in that deltarune

[leaden glacier]

you’re a player in deltarune. the game will likely not be catered exactly to your wants

[cursive ravine]

Ok but most deltarune fans want them to be happy

[heady fossil]

You'd be surprised

[weary granite]

Yes, you can try, but Kris as is doesnt like you, even if you help them a lot

The game doesnt revolve around you, the game mentions that a lot, Kris and the rest are who make the story, we can force our choice via Noelle or go along the ride as much as possible in the normal route

We may be playing, but our choice as the players dont matter as much, the characters choices matter far more

[cursive ravine]

Like look me straight in the eyes and tell me you don’t want Susie and Ralsei happy

[cursive ravine]

Bro the “our choices don’t matter” thing is presented like “kill or be killed” a statement we can prove or disprove

[heady fossil]

Without pain, there is no development. If there is no development, the story gets boring

imo

[cursive ravine]

I know

[weary granite]

I want them to develop them as people, they womt always be happy but I want them to live life as they want

[cursive ravine]

But I like happy endings

[leaden glacier]

at the end of the day what a lot of people really want is a good story, whether that leaves the fun gang happy or not (i think at least, this is as much of an assumption as “most people want the fun gang to be happy”

[cursive ravine]

Ok but I’m still not going to go against them for that

[weary granite]

Yes, all I truly care about is the story, I completely agree

Whether I want them happy or sad is irrelevant, I just want the story to be a good one

[cursive ravine]

Ok but still look me in the eyes and tell me if you knew the story was good both ways you like them to be sad

[hasty sapphire]

Do you know how to make them happy though?

Are you sure what you've been doign so far was for their good?

[heady fossil]

I just want a good story that can creep me out sometimes (like the weird route) and the means of achieving the "good story" can mean forcing the characters to do stuff that might make others sad
Again, imo so take with a grain of salt

[weary granite]

Exactly

We can want them to be happy, but our happiness is not theirs, we dont know what they want fully yet

What we could be doing could be extremely detrimental, imagine how Susie is gonna feel when she realizes she wasnt even friends with Kris, but a puppeteer?

That alone would cause her to question everything, or at least all her interactions with Kris

[heady fossil]

That last little part reminds me of a song lyric
But yea building on this, how would you feel if you found out the person you've grown to know and be good friends with isn't really their true self? I'm sure that's how it'd be for Susie

[weary granite]

I personally would be devastated, I cant say how Susie would feel but It never would feel the same again

Imo, it would feel shallow, like Im not talking to the right person

[heady fossil]

Not even true self, but it's merely just a charade for the person... an act of what they want you to see

[hasty sapphire]

What about us though

[weary granite]

The funniest part, Kris's personality literally aligns with Susie's, both are fuckin gremlins lol

[hasty sapphire]

Did we not genuinely try to be Susie's friend?

[heady fossil]

But that's us speaking for Kris, not Kris themself speaking to Susie

[hasty sapphire]

But we're still real

We're just not Kris

[cursive ravine]

Yes

[weary granite]

We are, but it doesnt change the fact that it feels fake, if we try to be a friend maybe I'd be more cordial but just the idea that someone is being forced to do something else isnt a good feeling

The thought that a friend you had isnt really the one you are friends with can cause severe trust issues

[heady fossil]

They are gremlins yea

[hasty sapphire]

Is it fair to dismiss us as some supernatural power possessing the real person in this situation while we had no real choice?

[cursive ravine]

No

Again guys your choices don’t matter is being show more as kill or be killed a statement you can prove or disprove

[weary granite]

Our feelings matter but we cant push aside the issues with controlling Kris

We may be trying to help and hell we may be friends but the negative aspects of it are still drastic

[cursive ravine]

Ok guys

What if

We become

[weary granite]

This is a nuanced issue that can have different answers depending on how you feel about it

[cursive ravine]

The soul

What if we just fully split up from Kris

[heady fossil]

Ngl I've heard theories that we were supposed to posses the Vessel we created and we would have been much more powerful, but we got stuck with Kris instead so we don't have our full potential or smth?

[cursive ravine]

In some chapter

[hasty sapphire]

Ah yes, just bring back the vessel

[weary granite]

A lot of people assume this will happen yeah

[cursive ravine]

I don’t mean we control the vessel

I mean we just don’t have one

[heady fossil]

It's more of, OUR choices don't matter, but the character's choices DO matter

[cursive ravine]

Still

What I said still applies

[weary granite]

People assume Kris and who they're working with intervened and caused Kris to become the new vessel

The Dont Forget song lyrics are also literal about it, with references to "the promise" in chapter 4

The song lyric is "The promise in our hearts" and since the other lyrics in the song are super literal, My assumption is that this is also a literal statement, where the heart is the promise

[cursive ravine]

Ok

I still think there is a good chance we just fully split up from Kris

[heady fossil]

I mean we're shown time and time again our choices don't matter, no matter what the route we take doesn't matter and doesn't change the end, it only changes the means of how we reach the end

[cursive ravine]

And have no more vessel

[civic mason]

(jelyfish in chaper 5)

[heady fossil]

I actually haven't heard this yet, that's really interesting!

[cursive ravine]

Well at the end of chapter 4 there is a extra thing if you do the weird rote

So no

[weary granite]

Our choices do matter if we force our choices too, but as always we have to force it through another character, not once did our soul make a choice that they could do on their own

[weary granite]

Which section are you talking about?

[cursive ravine]

If you do the whole proceed thing with Noelle in chapter 4 you see a weird red blob thing at the end of the chapter

Again your choices don’t matter is just kill or be killed but again

[weary granite]

This glob also shows up in the middle of the chapter as part of the Noelle section

The communities assumption is that ||the soul put a fragment in Noelle, since when you view Noelle's perspective, she actively responds to you||

[hasty sapphire]

Not really

[heady fossil]

But in the end, will that really matter to the over all plot of the story? I don't think it will, because again, we're still reaching the same ending, just through a different means. It's still the same end, but we just slightly changed the way of reaching it

[hasty sapphire]

Kill or be killed gets disproven relatively quickly

[cursive ravine]

WHAT DO YOU MEAN NOT REALLY!!!

[hasty sapphire]

Your choices don't matter still holds up in the normal route

[weary granite]

Kill or be killed has been disproven yeah

[hasty sapphire]

You're not even the protagonist in deltarune, it makes total sense that your choices don't matter

[weary granite]

Your pacifist choices do actually effect minor parts of the story, like ||Keeping Tenna and Jackenstein alive|| but overall they are more minor than major, the ending and routes wont really change much

[hasty sapphire]

Some ch4 dialogues imply that broken Tenna can still be repaired in later chapters but idk

[weary granite]

Really?

Dam

[cursive ravine]

BECAUSE ITS NOT FINISHED😭

And no it doesn’t

Again

[hasty sapphire]

After 4 chapters do you really think the final choice will be up to you and not Susie?

[cursive ravine]

Weird route

[hasty sapphire]

We don't talk about weird route

[cursive ravine]

I think it will be up to both

[cursive ravine]

Yes we do😭

It’s a important point

[weary granite]

Yes but the trends that the game is taking is showing that our choices wont matter, you dont just do a 180 pivot like that after telling everyone constantly your choices dont matter

The weird route however is a deviation, where your choices matter because you are in control of the characters, your choices matter BECAUSE you are forcing the characters to make it matter

[heady fossil]

An obscure one at that

[hasty sapphire]

I thought you wanted the fun gang happy, I don't think this is where your weird route choices are going

[signal grail]

where exactly is your choices dont matter in deltarune

i only remember "no one can choose who they are in this world"

[cursive ravine]

First of all the route is not just a different game or anything if that counts the normal route counts

[hasty sapphire]

Susie says that in ch1

[cursive ravine]

I DO WANT THEM HAPPY BUT I GET TO TALK ABOUT WEIRD ROUTE

[leaden glacier]

i think susie says it at the c1 locker scene? can’t think of any other examples

[cursive ravine]

ITS NOT JUST SOMETHING YOU CAN IGNORE!!!!!

[heady fossil]

At the beginning of chapter one when you go out in the hall, Susie gives you a choice and says "nah, don't even bother answering that. You're choices don't matter" or smth like that

[leaden glacier]

i think we should all calm down a little

[signal grail]

oh yeah

[leaden glacier]

just because you want one thing that doesn’t negate the presence of something else

[cursive ravine]

Yes but when people don’t listen i get angered

[heady fossil]

We. are listening though??

[leaden glacier]

hence, wanting everyone happy doesn’t make weird route invalid to talk about

[mild hull]

hi chat

[leaden glacier]

hi Low Resolution Black And White Smiley Face Profile Picture

[cursive ravine]

I’m done talking I’m pretty sure the new tpot episode is out

[leaden glacier]

yeah it’s Something™

[weary granite]

Please calm down, we are just discussing what we think on the game, differing opinions is okay and makes for healthy discussion

[signal grail]

this isnt an answerable question without having actually seen a happy and sad version of the ending

[hasty sapphire]

I'm not saying weird route is invalid, I'm saying that it shows that trying to prove "your choices don't matter" wrong will not lead to a favorable result

[signal grail]

the preference would entirely come from the message that either ending would send

[weary granite]

Yeah, it is a forcing of our choices imo

What happens from it, we dont know lol

[cursive ravine]

Yes it is

Hypotheticals are questions you can answer

[weary granite]

Yes but the answers will not have a basis until it happens or we know it happens

We can chat hypotheticals but for all we know all of us are wrong and Tony decided the angel was Nubert

[signal grail]

not in a meaningful way

[cursive ravine]

It that doesn’t mean you can’t answer it

[heady fossil]

Actually Nubert is both the angel and the roaring knight trust Toby told me himself

[weary granite]

And thats fine, we can chat on it and just enjoy thinking about different hypotheticals, none of us will be guranteed right and none of us can truly answer the same on one topic

[cursive ravine]

I just think acting like hypotheticals don’t matter and are stupid is just not true

[signal grail]

i think the player "meeting with its desire" doesnt really work as well in deltarune so far bc the player isnt the actual protagonist in the same way as undertale

[weary granite]

The final prophecy at the end was actually about Kris

But because it misgendered them, Susie broke it and wants to defy it
(Totally real)

[signal grail]

so its not as predictable in universe based on the actions you take like undertale

[cursive ravine]

You can still use undertale

We can use the info we have

[heady fossil]

We merely influence things in Deltarune, we can't dictate the outcome we can only influence things, unlike Undertale, we don't have COMPLETE control over anything in DR

[cursive ravine]

It isn’t sacrilegious to not use undertale as a basis

[signal grail]

i am using undertale

[weary granite]

Its not that they dont matter, its that we shouldnt hold them at the same regard as things we can properly answer since we dont have much info on them

We quite literally talk hypothetical all the time lol

[hasty sapphire]

I don't think "this thing in deltarune will be the same as in undertale" is an answer I would trust

[cursive ravine]

Anyway stop talking to me I’m gonna watch tpot

[weary granite]

Yeah same, maybe there are parallels, but overall the story will be different

[cursive ravine]

The other person acted like they don’t matter

[weary granite]

I will say, Gerson talking about the deltarune in Undertale is a huge eye opener

[signal grail]

i didnt say anything about hypotheticals

i said that specific question isnt meaningful

[heady fossil]

Considering that DR is a spiritual successor to UT and things aren't fully connected at all is another reason

[weary granite]

Lyn didnt say that no, Im checking it over

[signal grail]

deltarune is a direct sequel* /j

[hasty sapphire]

Deltarune is an official AU

[weary granite]

TRUEEEEEW

[signal grail]

its undertale: downpour 💀

[heady fossil]

Just like Downpour is for RW

Damn I was Snailed

[weary granite]

Ok, I'm gonna head out for now, gotta do actual work lol

Have a good one!

[heady fossil]

Have fun at work

Quick chat make crack theories while Snaff isn't looking /silly

[weary granite]

Im lookin

[leaden glacier]

deltarune is all kris’ fever dream they fell horribly sick after trying to eat shelter moss

FUDGE

[signal grail]

my best reading of banished meeting with its desire for player is angel theory would be something like being banished from kris' body and instead being given the vessel we make at the start of the game to use

considering its the first action you ever take in the game and its tailored to your wants (as closely as it can get anyway)

[hasty sapphire]

That'd feel like a cheap good ending

Ok if you think about that phrase literally it makes sense

But I can't imagine where the story would go with reintroduction of vessel

[signal grail]

🤷‍♀️ there would still be other story beats left to resolve anyway

i think it would also kind of make sense if the or a vessel is shown on that prophecy, goners are pretty universally unsettling

im not a player is angel truther anyway im just giving it the credence i can

[hasty sapphire]

While we're at it, can we give this part of the prophecy more attention

[weary granite]

Oh sorry, my dad calls me periodically, prolly just that
(Im seriously tho, when Im available I would like to talk about that :D)

[hasty sapphire]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/455836779560304650/1217509054323228733/animal.gif

[signal grail]

noelle truthers rise up

[weary granite]

I do wonder who the angel will actually be

Noelle and the soul are my candidates

I cant think of anyone else tbh

[signal grail]

if the prophecy is twofold like undertale it could be both of them

or the soul just has a much greater influence on what noelle ends up doing

[hasty sapphire]

Well in weird route ||it's literally both of them||

As an one ending believer I'm curious to see how the normal route gets to the same point

[signal grail]

same

[weary granite]

I think in the weird route the "ring" very much is just ||The thorn ring or the weird route jingle|| but in the normal route, I think the "heaven's call" may refer to the echoing noise heard when the heart comes out to seal the fountain, though Im not too sure

[hasty sapphire]

Ring of heaven huh

There are many ways to interpret that text and I may be overthink it but I think the ring of heaven is one entity, a parallel to hell's tail maybe

Also explains the image

I feel like we still don't realize how important Noelle is going to be for the main plot even in the normal route

[weary granite]

She plays a huge part in the weird route, including chapter 5

I like your interpretation on heaven's ring, and I think if it is an item, it would be the catalyst for the Susie to finally understand the soul

[mighty steppe]

was ch4 or ch2 bigger

[leaden glacier]

like for the website?

c2, easily

or for the game itself?

[mighty steppe]

for the game itself

[leaden glacier]

uhhhhh i think c4

[mighty steppe]

crazy

[leaden glacier]

also i think (c3 secret) ||eram and flowey post pacifist should interact. we wouldn’t find the bodies, but they should||

[mighty steppe]

i'm really confused

what does that even mean

[leaden glacier]

i think they should interact but it would kill a lot of people

[mighty steppe]

ah i see

is ||eram the name of the shadow mantle holder||

is that what we've decided on

[leaden glacier]

that’s the song that plays when you meet it

so thats what i call it

[mighty steppe]

i see

[vivid verge]

Guys is so sorry in ||chapter 4 egg room?||

[leaden glacier]

of course not, that’s ||art club where you draw and don’t fight anyone ||

but yeagh it’s possible that’s a counterpart maybe

[vivid verge]

Or a reference like that one part with || a muffet reference||

[leaden glacier]

i mean we ||can’t see them so we can’t really say for certain||

which means it’s headcanon time

[clear sparrow]

the ring of heaven's call is weird route's jingle /silly

[civic mason]

(what if they took a song an made a rude buster cover)
(all the instruments ar replaced with rude buster sounds of varying length an pitch)

(make a rude buster cover of rude buster)

[signal grail]

the RINGLE of HEAVEN'SES WEIRD CALLS...........

[leaden glacier]

heaven… i remember you’re CALLS

c3 pipis scene is just messed up huh.

like. oh my god.

the Implications

tenna not recognising spamton. spamton being aware of everything. spamton being so quick to try and reunite with tenna despite him being really mad at tenna and blaming him. just. Gooooddddddddd fuck. these guys mess me up

unrelated augh. Augh does anyone ever think about the pointy headed will say toothpaste and then boy.. i don’t even like like deltarune /lying

[patent pollen]

it means the secret chapter 1 bell you can find that goes "ringdingdingfriendinsidemedingdingding" /silly

[mild hull]

now that spoilered deltarune is allowed everywhere can we just allow everything unspoilered here now

[rapid flame]

lancer💙

[sudden pilot]

Yes that sounds good

Lets run a poll quickly though

[mild hull]

("do not" is just keeping the current status quo)

that being, everything but weird route and something else I forgot

oh secret bosses

[leaden glacier]

oh uhhh Low Resolution Black And White Smiley Face Profile Picture while you’re here may i make a completely unrelated request. could i have visitor please

[mild hull]

.role 576551590631309343 visitor

[scarlet egret]

Sprinkles understands you!

It brings pk207 the Visitor role out of their hoard.
They steal Scholar from pk207 and retreat to their den.

[mild hull]

?role 576551590631309343 exploded

[lean crypt]

Failed to change the following roles:
● exploded - role does not exist

[sudden pilot]

A visitor?

[leaden glacier]

(thanks)

[vivid verge]

Tenna uses the pepis for his TV foods btw

[signal grail]

https://youtu.be/AJvB644oWxI

[leaden glacier]

hhhrhrgrhrhrhr it’s like. ralsei wanting to change the prophecy. that maybe if he did something right, if something went the right way, he’d be able to change the future for the better. and even when someone seemingly goes directly against the prophecy, when susie refuses to be a hero, it still happens. there’s nothing he can do. their choices really must not matter, right?
also i think it’s really funny an insult was foretold

[leaden glacier]

i’m curious, where is this confirmed?

[signal grail]

HE. HE WHO IS COMING

[vivid verge]

Its very much implied

[signal grail]

i think about toothpaste boy a lot

[vivid verge]

With the whole graffiti thingy in the s rank room, and after tennas crash out when you visit it says that the TV slop is derived from something in his wardrobe or something.

[leaden glacier]

slugpawshake

i 🌊

[signal grail]

to me it seems to imply how precise the prophecy is

[vivid verge]

I would explain it better but me eppy

[leaden glacier]

nono i understood don’t worry

[leaden glacier]

yeahhh inevitable and precise

[signal grail]

its events arent supposed to really be vague, things will happen in exactly the way it intends

[vivid verge]

Also if you didn't have the dealmaker you would've been able to eat the pepis and gain some hp back

He literally got his food from an egg. Maybe he truly is a little glooby

[leaden glacier]

can’t believe it’s ||probably not even fried||

(weird route

[signal grail]

you would eat the pipis and widow mrs pipis? monster 😞

[vivid verge]

Mrs pipis is spamton right?

[leaden glacier]

nono, you can’t get tenna from an egg. you can get food from an egg though that’s pretty common

[vivid verge]

Or is spamton just the dad/mom?

[signal grail]

no its an actual enemy

pipis with a pink bow

[vivid verge]

I feel like im being kurpranked

Guys would you eat a pepis knowing that there is little spamlings inside?

[leaden glacier]

i mean i certainly don’t think they’re sentient but also i feel like if i just ate like. regular pipis i’d probably die

[vivid verge]

Ngl when you said they aren't sentient it reminded me of the fucking ralesi plush owners vs spamton plush owners

[vivid verge]

I forgor about that in ||snowgrave||

Friend inside me

[rapid flame]

tenna hatched from an egg like a baby bird

also Yeah I imagine the prophecy is much longer than what we see if its so precise as to predict individual lines of dialogue

[storm bolt]

||driving in my car right after a beer
hey that bump is shaped like a deer||

[vivid verge]

Dui!
I hope you die!

[mild hull]

this is overwritten with all spoilers being allowed now so im unpinning it 💥

[weary granite]

Alright

[weary granite]

An fyi, it is implied that the TV dinners were made from pipis!!

[mild hull]

ground pipis

[leaden glacier]

i mean i’d imagine that the hazard of mini spamton bullets was removed from the tv dinners Hopefully ???

or at least neutralised

hence why i didn’t take them into account

[weary granite]

He did get in hot water after it was shown to everyone

Something tells me he...doesnt know what an FDA is

[leaden glacier]

i don’t think the pipis based foods are the only thing that would get you in trouble with the fda /silly

cds 😋

anyways i mean. they certainly heal so id imagine it’s probably fine

i’d want that pie crumb. i mean nose cone. i mean. Actually no i wouldn’t want steak

[cursive ravine]

Someone called Tenna spamton on crack and that makes no sense since spamton was already spamton on crack

[crimson wyvern]

TRUE

[crimson wyvern]

i need

help
how does one obtain other stars

i do not know why only chapter 3 has em all

[leaden glacier]

i think it’s just completing the chapter in that save slot innit?

[crimson wyvern]

oh-

i thought it was marking completion for something

ty

[woven tulip]

tenna’s pronouns are t/v

[woven tulip]

if it counts chapters, then the half mark is the middle of ch4, gaster wouldn’t just say this when we make ||the second sanctuary fountain||

[hasty sapphire]

He should have

Call me on the phone or something

[woven tulip]

how interesting that every person around susie hides secrets

[cursive ravine]

[woven tulip]

even gerson doesn’t directly mention being a darkner

[woven tulip]

well, the angel . there isn’t, like, a canon confirmation the angel has to be some known character. it’s like how people thought mike is the same character as tenna at some point

[woven tulip]

also the roaring happens without us. if you give up after game over, the roaring happens

[hasty sapphire]

Gaster angel is real

[cursive ravine]

Yeah to be honest if anyone was the angel it probably would be gaster if it had to be someone we knew

[hasty sapphire]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/455836779560304650/1217509054323228733/animal.gif

Who's Gaster

[cursive ravine]

You can’t ragebait me

[woven tulip]

the angel doll is pretty fair but there... is just no other to hide the angel except putting a wall in front of it, except not showing the prophecy at all, which is even weirder because the angel is a part of the legend.

and light is property of the soul, probably any human’s soul can glow. maybe even monster’s soul can glow, we just never see monster souls yet

[hasty sapphire]

Everyone focuses so much on angel doll falling on the soul but ignores all the Noelle angel parallels

[cursive ravine]

I can’t see Noelle being the angel

It just doesn’t make sense with the whole “banishing the angels heaven”

[hasty sapphire]

What are all angel implications are about then

[cursive ravine]

Idk man

But that means nothing if it doesn’t make sense

It’s probably another papyrus knight thing

Toby probably added the implications to make the fandom go insane

Also

[hasty sapphire]

Consider that Noelle agnel will start making sense later

[cursive ravine]

At most Noelle would be associated with the angel but I don’t she will be the angel

[woven tulip]

the angel is almost surely omnipresent so they are here regardless

[hasty sapphire]

You don't write so many important parallels just to mislead the fandom

[cursive ravine]

Toby would

Remember pluey

[hasty sapphire]

Toby would feed my dog chocolate

[cursive ravine]

Also the papyrus parrels

[hasty sapphire]

I can't believe Toby is so cruel

[cursive ravine]

Papyrus definitely isn’t the knight to y just added it because it’s funny watching the fandom burn

I can’t blame him I would do the same thing in his shoes

[hasty sapphire]

Added what, one missable mention of Papyrus?

Vs Noelle getting compared to angel in some way in every chapter?

[cursive ravine]

Oh you poor soul

[woven tulip]

we never see december or asriel either? just few mentions, and yet they are surely important characters. the friend is probably important too but was only shown as random easter egg, gerson was almost not mentioned at all before ch4.

[hasty sapphire]

You know, the entity that's really important in the prophecy

[cursive ravine]

Noelle being the angel just doesn’t make sense off of what we know the angel is all about

[hasty sapphire]

Well then play ch5-7 and get to know more

[cursive ravine]

No maybe you should you scallop

[hasty sapphire]

I would never ragebait in deltarune general

[cursive ravine]

Yes you would

[woven tulip]

then why kris goes to the church of the angel at least occasionally ?

[weary granite]

They go cause Toriel makes them

[woven tulip]

tony is smart and made this room dark so there wouldn’t be a need to actually put the character, like with a muffet reference

[woven tulip]

player, i forgot you’re snowgraves.

[woven tulip]

execbuffet has "blue 'caviar'" in the description. pipis are referred as "species of freshwater clam" and "eggs"

[weary granite]

The TV dinners are pipis shredded into them

The execbuffet is just straight up pipis lol

Pipis is healthy as we all know though

[elfin kayak]

tit ass ral

[woven tulip]

everything is healthy in the dark world except s. poison

[weary granite]

Chalk is very healthy

[woven tulip]

i guess the disk is probably a flash drive in the light world, and spamton stays in it after the neo fight.

i mean, every item in the inventory is something small, something you can reasonably* have in the pocket.

playing cards, stickers, candies, pencils, an eraser, glass shards.

darkners that are in our inventory are consistently such things too: lancer, rouxls, and jevil are cards, so spamton is probably a flash drive now.

[hasty sapphire]

I think most of ch2 darkners are just software

But makes sense for spamton to have a physical form since he also appears in ch3

[woven tulip]

well, spamton transforms into dealmaker/puppet scarf

which is an item in the inventory, so it’s likely something with a physical form in the light world in some way

what are pipis, however

they could’ve been some software but with tv world it doesn’t really make sense

for software darkners, i think bringing the device they are on is enough to put them into the dark world.

[hasty sapphire]

Which makes me wonder

Tenna says something like "they shouldn't have brought that laptop home" when talking about spamton

So was Spamton a part of it?

[woven tulip]

ch7 we bring asriel’s computer and summon god of hyperdeath to fight the knight

[hasty sapphire]

Maybe darkners aren't tied to objects

Would also explain Elnina and Lanino

[woven tulip]

if spamton is program, probably. then we just transfer spamton to a some portable storage device

[woven tulip]

not necessarily physical objects i guess.

it explains cyber world darkners, they are different programs on the computers. but lanino and elnina aren’t tied to anything, since they can exist without tenna

[hasty sapphire]

Maybe they're a VHS recording of a weather channel then

[woven tulip]

oh maybe

[hasty sapphire]

Or maybe Toby forgor how dark worlds are supposed to work and decided to just do what's cool

[woven tulip]

it’s a subtle foreshadowing that ralsei is wrong, obviously

[rapid flame]

a scam email sitting in the inbox perhaps

[vivid verge]

glyde is secretly the knight guys

[woven tulip]

the light blue soul mode where you can’t move at all and have to patiently wait until your hp reaches 0

[rapid flame]

sans undertale

[rapid flame]

mario knight?!,!

[quartz spindle]

I do think even after ralsie said he'd stop keeping secrets he continues keeping secrets. Poor little fluffball tormented by knowledge

[woven tulip]

ralsei explaining whole plot of ch6-7 in full details including all secrets 5 minutes after you enter castle town in ch5:

[vivid verge]

https://youtu.be/dGjO4fP4YPs

chapter 6 leak

[quartz spindle]

I saw that lmao

[woven tulip]

chapter 6 kris fights politician (carol)

[quartz spindle]

Imo Ralsei knows something about Noelle, and he doesn't tell Susie right after promising to be more open

[vivid verge]

i wish there is a lhugheny refrence in deltarune

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1379482184980758598/1388974094443089960/SPOILER_RDT_20250629_0320518836041670129512634.gif

[hasty sapphire]

I still think Noelle was supposed to be the original second hero but Ralsei doesn't realize it

Therefore he probably thinks that Noelle is the 4th girl

[woven tulip]

why would ralsei not realize it? 💔

knowing the whole prophecy it would be hard to make such a mistake

[hasty sapphire]

Because the prophecy is vague and he seems to genuinely think Susie is supposed to equip ribbons

[woven tulip]

but really, why the hell prophecy would have two distinct character with the same exact title?

[hasty sapphire]

To mislead us into believing that Susie is the second hero, I see no other reason

[woven tulip]

also i think there is a possibility we didn’t see the whole prophecy. maybe there is a line missing somewhere, and it actually refers to something like that susie will be the last standing hero in the final battle

it’s already out of order in the second sanctuary, would be easy to miss something

[hasty sapphire]

Possible, but that would be the only instance of the second hero prophecy using different image for her

Which is very sus

[woven tulip]

if it’s a rude buster, it could be about an attack in the battle .

i guess it can be compared to the heaven’s call prophecy, which is related to the angel (who has a different image, that we can’t see however, associated with them)

whatever the "hell" is, i don’t think it would be a tail in every prophecy either. so maybe, the prophecies can instead show associated attacks, accessories, etc.

[hasty sapphire]

I don't think ring of heaven and angel are the same entity

But that kinda goes against the whole Noelle angel thing

[woven tulip]

heavens seem to be interchangeable with the angle? idk

[hasty sapphire]

And Noelle angel doesn't really fit into three heroes prophecy assuming Susie is not the second hero

[woven tulip]

oh also queen is not shown in the prophecy, only the car

[hasty sapphire]

There's a severe lack of Noelle info

Somehow she's going to be very important for the main plot but all we've gotten so far is her family being involved in it