deltarune ch3-4 (soiler warning)

[oak snow]

I’m so close I got to the final attack

I actually did it

[sudden pilot]

Chapter 3 secret boss ||The knight||

[uneven prism]

Chapter 5 secret boss ||green lizard||

[hardy marsh]

Chapter 6 secret boss

[sudden pilot]

Chapter 7 secret boss ||gabriel ultrakill||

[hardy marsh]

||Annoying dog||

Ugh how do you guys hide spoilers but also write in the same sentence

[sudden pilot]

Hi // spoiler // (pretend the dashes are |)

[hardy marsh]

Hello ||hello||

Oh i see

Thanks!

[storm bolt]

||holy kiss||

ch4 soil

eyebrows raised emoji

||you cant end it there what||

i need ch5 right now sob

[hardy marsh]

||pretty sure it's just a hug||

[hardy marsh]

||You left poor Tenna in tha house?||

[sudden pilot]

||tenna or queen
Answer||

[storm bolt]

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[storm bolt]

hmm?

[hardy marsh]

||Queen||

||Tenna is very funny too tho||

[hardy marsh]

||Oh do i tell u or, maybe you know idk
about things u can do with Tenna in the chapter||

[sudden pilot]

||Ok killing tenna :3||

[hardy marsh]

WHAT

||You sly fox i did not know it meant a moral choice ||

[storm bolt]

ok

||i think i kinda have a theory on why kris is trying to make these fountains??||

[mild hull]

||maybe the knight was merely the incarnation of Sword Magician all along||

[woven tulip]

tbf, it isn’t as big role as others

[crude gull]

ICHAPYER FIVE DOESNT EXIST RIGHT

???

[woven tulip]

crazy idea, but what if||—considering each chapter secret bosses become more relevant to the main story—the "secret" boss is the final boss of the chapter, the main antagonist would have the crystal.||

...||or if it’s actually in the flower shop, a parody of photoshop flowey ||

[uneven prism]

||asgore is the boss 🤫 ||

[woven tulip]

||right, but then asgore was fired /j||

[uneven prism]

||the secret boss is you the game has been scanning your face the entire time /j||

[woven tulip]

||but if it’s really true, it’s kinda weird . i know they fought berdly already, but a lightner being a main boss, and especially considering it’s kris’s dad .||

[uneven prism]

||it would be...funny||

[sudden pilot]

Secret boss difficulty rating go
||4) Spamton NEO, feels like an upper end base game fight, yellow soul makes it far too easy
3) Jevil, a great intro to the secret bosses, provides a strong challenge but still not quite as intense as the remaining two
2) Hammer of justice, very easy to get overwhelmed and take heavy damage if you’re not careful

1. The Knight, Difficult attacks and hurts like the roaring itself, Still suprised I was able to beat that fight, even with the shadow mantle||

[woven tulip]

||jevil might be harder than hammer of justice but it also was like years ago, i don’t quite remember ||

jevil has pretty unpredictable attacks

[sudden pilot]

||tbh I find jevil just a little bit easier, gearson is much more overwhelming if you lose your rhythm||

[woven tulip]

||the knight and hammer of justice have more consistent attacks that can actually be learnt||

||the knight is very difficult, but i would say it’s pretty fair fight||

[sudden pilot]

||yeah, but the consistent attacks of the knight are also consistent at swooning the entire party if you make a mistake||

[woven tulip]

||yeah, some attacks require to be very precise. though, others can be no hit with some practice||

||knives with the knife circle attack is probably the hardest||

[sudden pilot]

|| that fucking attack||

||probably my single biggest run killer||

[mild hull]

||I'd at minimum swap jevil and spamton; there's a lot more capability to do prep for spamton. Honestly you should make this have 5 since the weird route spamton is so much harder and different 💥||

[hardy marsh]

Ch4 Major spoilers

[oak snow]

How does Kris even ||wield the black shard, it’s really tiny?|| chapter 3 secret boss spoiler

[hasty sapphire]

||Probably the same way Kris wields cactus needle||

[woven tulip]

||weird route spamton isn’t secret, but main boss (of the route) ||

[woven tulip]

this implies they made hometown dark world

[warm island]

chapter 4 (four) soiler

[broken solstice]

Real

[spiral dome]

ohhhh

[broken solstice]

Also I just noticed how much better the new secret boss routes are.
Jevil and Spamton requires massive backtracking for no reason, into places you could consider absolutely meaningless, just to find there is something there.
||Both Knight and Gerson meanwhile are completely tied to the story of that chapter, and the fight with them feels much less out-of-place and more like everything up until the fight was leading to it. Their secret paths are also really apparent from the start, and you only need some curiosity to get started.||

[clear sparrow]

||the tiny issue ihave with gerson fight is its so well put into the story SKIPPING it feels wrong||

[modern galleon]

||Plus the whole thing about the magic axe is really hard to miss||

[karmic elm]

i wouldnt say meaningless but i get what you mean

||jevil key was specifically broken up so noone would try to free him again, and the shopkeeper decides to directly help you out with it for their own reasons||

||spamton lore is pretty obscure and so are his motives with the only theme being freedom, he also specifically mentions stuff about a deal in his fight and how you want to be free as well (which should spark curiosity on people when he says to meet him back at the trash heap, everything after there is very clear except the "backdoor" to the basement||

i think both those encounters are hidden really nicely and i really enjoyed finding them on my 1st playthrough

[karmic elm]

its such a cool fight and really cool chracter development for susie as well

as for ||knight, my dumbass thought the sword route boss WAS the secret boss so i didnt even notice i didnt get a shadow crystal lmao, i thought the knight fight was scripted to lose and nothing to gain and you refight it but stronger in ch4 x3||

||i ended up beating it on my 2nd playthrough when i was attempting my forbidden route and came out victorious||

i think without ch3 hints in ||sword route id have never figured out the route existed ||

[clear sparrow]

||i dont like c3 special route cause it requires you to get 3 s ranks in a row and thats a bit lame to me||

[broken solstice]

||you can reach it in many other ways tho. Getting better in certsin part makes you able to fumble another part and still win, you can purchase the S rank to completely skip the whole thing, or you can get Z-rank (though its unituitive)||

[hasty sapphire]

||Iirc you can buy access to s rank room with points||

||And s ranks are pretty easy to get anyway||

[clear sparrow]

||i thought the access was for first round only||

[broken solstice]

||You need to only get the first S rank, before you start round 2||

iirc you keep access to S rank room afterwards

[karmic elm]

yeah

i got some pretty poop scores and still scored an s rank

its very lenient even if youre a casual like myself

[hardy marsh]

Just out of curiosity, will something change or does something change if i beat Jevil by attacking him? only boss i've beaten that way cause to my understanding it didn't have an impact

[hasty sapphire]

Different item drop

And a minor tasque manager dialogue change accounting for that

[hardy marsh]

That i know yuh

But will i fuck up a you fully spared everyone run or something when the game is fully out?

hope not

[hasty sapphire]

Doesn't seem to mess up anything so far

[hardy marsh]

Oki-doki

[signal grail]

theres no way to know but assumedly only characters you can recruit will be affected by fighting

[karmic elm]

recuirts you

[signal grail]

recuirt

[modern galleon]

What I do worry is if ||killing titan spawns with the black shard|| will cause any consequence.

Cuz it says ||Kris got stronger|| after the fight

[signal grail]

unlikely

[prisma zealot]

chapter 4 spoilers

[nocturne mango]

true ..

[somber skiff]

lmao

[somber skiff]

reallll

chapter 5 predictions:
||We will get to see a lot more of ralsei's character development as the previous 2 chapters were mostly about susie with a bit of ralsei at the end||
||The dark world will take place in Asgore's flowers shop judging by gerson and the prophecy||
||both berdly and noelle will be there, noelle cuz she's gonna chill with susie during the festival and berdly cuz he's chilling with kris(this is what you get for the hockey stick incident kris)||
||More knight stuff, the knight is prob the one opening the dark world in asgore's place||
||Noelle is faster and can freeze her opponents||

[signal grail]

||i dont think the knight is gonna open asgores fountain, i think asgore is gonna open it himself or it might already be opened behind the blocked door||

||if hes been spending the entire time pre-game trying to disprove whatever is against him and its very likely to be related to dess' disappearance and dark worlds||

[somber skiff]

thats also a possibility

wait ||he has a black shard he can def open it himself||

[signal grail]

he could open it himself regardless, any lightner can make a dark world

[somber skiff]

spoiler tag it

[signal grail]

its not a spoiler for chapter 3 or 4

[somber skiff]

oh ok

[signal grail]

||it could also potentially mirror kris opening a dark world as theyre family and give an opportunity to show off a very different type of dark world like susies||

[somber skiff]

true

[cursive ravine]

||kris and the soul||

[somber skiff]

reallll

[signal grail]

@alpine estuary

[woven tulip]

except if you miss ||you have to replay the whole chapter to beat the knight normal way ||

[woven tulip]

yeah, ||gerson doesn’t feel particularly "secret"||

[woven tulip]

||there is no way anyone accidentally got 2 z-ranks ||

[woven tulip]

||isn’t it only the first board?||

[woven tulip]

||if i’m not wrong, usually if enemy doesn’t run away or die at the end of the fight, it doesn’t count as "kill" . though, it’s not necessarily no consequences since berdly breaks the arm in this case. ||

||with secret bosses, it only affects which drop you get from jevil and spamton, no effect on 4th secret boss, and the knight can’t be defeated peacefully anyway||

[hardy marsh]

Yuh
Actually i didn't even know what Jevil dropped if you pacify him

[woven tulip]

it’s a bit vague, but devilsknife is directly stated to be jevil, it might be the only way to "recruit" jevil. though, both dealmaker and puppet scarf are spamton, so it could be the same here

[hardy marsh]

Devil tail

Thing

[woven tulip]

jevilstail

💔

[hardy marsh]

Was making a description not naming it

[woven tulip]

well, then it’s supposedly has consequences

[hardy marsh]

||chapter 3-4 kinda break the tradition of the secret bosses you defeat becoming an item and technically traveling with you in your inventory||

||test||

Okay

[woven tulip]

it doesn’t matter? ||literally any lightner can, though they of course need to know about dark worlds||

[hardy marsh]

Well unless||Gerson suddenly manifests from the hammer at some point lol ||

But prob not

||Both the Knight and Gerson also only have one way of beating them and they give you one item instead of two depending on what you do||

[woven tulip]

the ||knight is very weird as a boss anyway. maybe, shadow mantle is mare, though ||

[hardy marsh]

Is that

alive

[woven tulip]

who knows

[hardy marsh]

[signal grail]

||ralsei says dead lightners can only show up in specific dark worlds so prbably not||

[hardy marsh]

||Is the Shadow mantle supposed to be the pixelated dark laughing thing you fight? if not who and what is that||

[woven tulip]

||gerson has two ways but the outcome is the same ||

||since all attacks are dodged||

[signal grail]

||yes, the face is carrying the shadow mantle||

[hardy marsh]

||oh i've heard theres like a hard mode for that? what causes that the weird route?||

Ohhh

[signal grail]

actually nvm im not sure

[woven tulip]

||that’s a really weird character, judging by the music names it’s probably called "nightmare". it’s unknown who is it , or if it’s separate from the mantle. but it’s definitely has relation to friends (well we don’t know who they are either)||

[alpine estuary]

@signal grail

i forgot this was even a thread

[alpine estuary]

i'll be interested in peeping around

[signal grail]

😭

[alpine estuary]

might not talk much tho cause this is a big server

[alpine estuary]

true

[hardy marsh]

Interesting

||what about the smile with the pink and yellow eye that appears everywhere||

||Cause at first i thought it was something related to Mike
kinda? Honestly no idea about that either
but it appears in other places like the story Ralsei tells or the boss you get the mantle from||

[woven tulip]

||that’s friends||

[hardy marsh]

Oh

That's what you were talking about

[woven tulip]

they are weird

[hardy marsh]

that's it's name?

[woven tulip]

yes

[hardy marsh]

or
Their ?

Weird

Are they some kind of ||Darkness related creature or||

[woven tulip]

||the one in the story ralsei tells is very similar to endogeny too||

[hardy marsh]

"Similar"

The same pretty much

Random choice

[signal grail]

i think right now its 100% speculation

[hardy marsh]

Damn

[signal grail]

||their only appearances i know of are in queens basement, the shadow mantle fight and pluey has the same colored eyes||

[hardy marsh]

And that cutscene

[woven tulip]

||especially considering, darkners can be revived lightners, it seems there is a parallel between darkners and amalgams||

[hardy marsh]

||Also i Guess Spamton might have those colors to reference that?||

||Maybe friends are related to the mysterious friend Spamton heard through the phone?||

||prob not lol but the color scheme he has must mean something||

[woven tulip]

||"the field of pink and gold"||

[clear sparrow]

||its funny how the entire mike extra thing in c4 is meant to make fun of the people making theories about mike/the friend cat creature/etc||

[somber skiff]

real

[somber skiff]

||thats the thing i think asgore might know of the dark world||

[somber skiff]

also this entire reddit post is so true lmao
https://www.reddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/1l4qklv/chapter_34_screenshots_that_wouldve_passed_as/

[rocky hemlock]

Doesn't this remind you jus a LITTLE of ||doom board|| ch3 ost name

Am I music deaf

[signal grail]

just the background part

[rocky hemlock]

FUCK

lemme get rave.dj

[gaunt hamlet]

(ch3)

[final rivet]

is this an actual line? Or an edit?

spoiler in relation to it: ||I know the Mike fight and minigames are real, just curious about the dialogue bit||

||because if its real i might throw something at Toby Fox||

I'm unable to access the post anyway

[hasty sapphire]

It is real

[woven tulip]

real, and ||one mini game’s theme has the world revolving leitmotif||

[final rivet]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1127577485589086248/1372563569912320100/109816361_puter.gif

GODDAMN IT TOBY

[wooden steeple]

these chapters are peak

[wild ice]

No way did I see people using the word leitmotif? is it actually a normal thing to say? Have I been lied to?

[halcyon finch]

i fuckin hate it wyen discord saves stuff with a spoiler

[hasty sapphire]

Only in fandoms for games made by composers

[somber skiff]

||first jevil, now tenna||

[woven tulip]

i love sundown leitmotif

almost every important story moment in rain world has it

[somber skiff]

kayava leitmotif when

[somber skiff]

it appears in nowhere but i like it

[woven tulip]

i wish other games had more info on their leitmotifs . undertale and deltarune are probably the only games where there is a detailed description of leitmotifs used

by players i mean

[hasty sapphire]

There's some in ultrakill

But I think it's generally about not many games using music for storytelling

[woven tulip]

it’s really cool thing to connect places, characters, events without directly showing it

hollow knight uses quite a lot leitmotifs too

rain world has some, as i mentioned

[hasty sapphire]

Outer wilds also does that pretty well

[woven tulip]

minecraft uses leitmotifs too, especially visible in the end theme

[heady fossil]

Ok chat what is a leitmotif

I've heard the word a lot but what the hell does it mean

[hasty sapphire]

Basically a reoccuring pattern in music

[heady fossil]

Like the Dies Irae?

/genq

[woven tulip]

yeah, basically

[heady fossil]

Hey chat
Anyone have tips for ||Snowgrave Spamton I'm REALLY struggling || chapter 2 weird route soils

Ok I'm going crazy this fight

How did I do this fight a while ago but not now

[hardy marsh]

Hmmmmm

||I just won by learning the patterns and attacking, theres a healing act you can do with pt i think||

||for the face attack, try leaving the eyes nose and mouth with low health so you can destroy multiple in a single round||

[heady fossil]

||Usually I just go straight for the mouth and eyes because they REALLY fuck me up, just me tho||

||I try to learn patterns (and I usually fail) so most of the time I'm just going off of reaction||

[hardy marsh]

You can do it

:] eventually you'll win

Not much i can tell ya
have items and good equiptment

[finite phoenix]

||press F1 for a free heal||

||(at least, i think it should work here? i know it works on any other spamton fights)||

[heady fossil]

||What would F1 be on Switch ||

[finite phoenix]

||i have no clue ||

[heady fossil]

💔

[woven tulip]

right stick

💔

idk how it’s correctly called

[hasty sapphire]

Does that actually work

[woven tulip]

try pressing any buttons on the right

[woven tulip]

only once

[hasty sapphire]

Well yeah

[woven tulip]

per each encounter

[hasty sapphire]

I thought it just doesn't work on non keyboard

[woven tulip]

it works but i don’t think it’s explained

[heady fossil]

That would be evil💔

[woven tulip]

just connect keyboard to you switch

[oak snow]

There are great ones in hollow knight

Leitmotifs

[nocturne mango]

is this supposed to be moving or is this hevc

[supple belfry]

chapter 4 ending related spoilers ||why do i feel like in chapter 5 we'll be getting a sans bossfight or smth, and it would play "Song That Might Play When You Fight Sans" instead||

[hasty sapphire]

||I feel it's more likely we end up harming Toriel, not Sans||

||There are several dialogues telling you to be nice to your mother which might act as a foreshadowing, then there's Kris cooperating with knight to create ch3 dark world with apparent goal of abducting Toriel||

||Also I hope we get to fight Kris in snowgrave||

[karmic elm]

||ch5 is gonna be asgore most likely||

[woven tulip]

||breaking: a child of the mayor’s friend beaten up a local janitor||

[clear sparrow]

||if sans appears in the dark world he's 100% going to look literally the same as light world||

[woven tulip]

it wouldn’t be funny, ||annoying dog already does it 💔||

||well, technically annoying dog never was visible in the light world, but the dark world appearance is like in undertale||

||sans in the dark world would look exactly like papyrus and like say something like "did you all thought i’m somebody else"||

[signal grail]

he gets pink slippers

[clear sparrow]

REAL

[signal grail]

i doubt sans will be relevant to the dark world plot anyway

[clear sparrow]

i feel like he has to eventually

with how many references he has to deltarune in UT

oh you mean like while inside the dark world

eh i guess

[signal grail]

Perhaps

i just think he already had his time to shine in undertale and so far the dark world doesnt really have anything to do with him

i think the only things that would make him dark world relevant are gaster or papyrus being the knight

[clear sparrow]

i just think itd be weird for him to not be relevant when he (presumably) talks about deltarune in UT and has a "dont forget" photograph in his lab

i dont expect him to shine in more than 1 chapter though

[hasty sapphire]

I don't really see how that photo is referencing specifically deltarune

[clear sparrow]

Dont Forget is like

THE deltarune song tho?

[hollow mica]

Ooooo I didn’t see this

Very cool

[hasty sapphire]

It's also just two commonly used together words that make a lot of sense to put on the photo, you don't need deltarune to explain the context of that

Some people draw the connection between three people on the photo and the fun gang, why the hell would Sans keep the photo of two annoying teens and their imaginary friend

[clear sparrow]

it doesnt have to be them

[hasty sapphire]

I think the whole "don't forget" thing is going for either the fictional nature of dark worlds and their real impact on people or the journey being more important than the destination

Neither is really applicable to a photo of real people

[clear sparrow]

sans is most likely from deltarune and he has the most references to it out of any character in ut so like

bwomp

[hasty sapphire]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/455836779560304650/1217509054323228733/animal.gif

[clear sparrow]

daily remidner that among us is canon to deltarune

/srs

[hasty sapphire]

Waiting for black mirror theory to get confirmed so my face becomes canon to deltarune

[cursive ravine]

||im doing the knight without the mantle because i didnt know how to get it and its too late now so im going to go insane||

I’m on switch btw

So it’s even worse

And I mean the first switch

Not the switch 2

[signal grail]

what does being on switch affect lol

[cursive ravine]

It’s harder controls

Less precise and stuff

[grand raft]

and on a joycon

yes it affects a lot

[signal grail]

you have more precision with a stick than a keyboard

[cursive ravine]

||plus I don’t think I can do the Z trick with Susie’s rude buster on joycon||

I’m in the battle now

Ok I’m taking a break

[grand raft]

i can assure you it’s way harder on the switch joycon

[uneven prism]

James Primote

[mild hull]

I imagine you'd wanna use the D-Pad for some of the more precise attacks

[grand raft]

its way worse 😭

the dpad is 4 buttons

[mild hull]

yes

that is also what the keyboard inputs are

[grand raft]

at least wasd is close to eachother

[crimson wyvern]

yeah... i dont know what i expected
ch 4 ending spoilers

[warm island]

||don't think susie is a fan of drunk people||

[warm island]

||but it's also totally plausible that she was just upset that she stressed over toriel for no good reason in the end||

[blissful ivy]

(ch4 spoilers) ||this leter is not perfect aither but its okay||

||kris??? why are they blushing||

[prisma zealot]

stabba

[heady fossil]

Yes you can actually! I play on the first Switch as well, and you have to spam the action button (so A most likely, or whatever button you use to select things)

[cursive ravine]

I think the spam thing was patched but yes I learned if you time it right A does work

[heady fossil]

Hey, I always spam A so I don't have to worry about the timing

[modern galleon]

|| I believe that Kris has a weird obsession with their knife and is somewhat embarrassed about it||

||They just might be a yandare ||

[cursive ravine]

I’m going to explode

[alpine estuary]

||honestly it could definitely be both ||

[grand raft]

HELL YEAH

[alpine estuary]

||i think it's more likely that we'd fight susie in weird route but it would be really cool and interesting if we fought all the fun gang but noelle was fighting against the fun gang with us||

[grand raft]

chapter 4 ending ||WE GOT A RELEASE DATE OF CHAPTER 5||

[alpine estuary]

🔥

[woven tulip]

||in the light world church hymn, "pray we not forget the tale of DELTARUNE", so it’s more than this probably||

[signal grail]

||i think its more likely to have a ""fight"" against kris than any other party member (unless its in the light world) bc if we have noelle anyone who tries fighting us can just get snowgraved to the ice kingdom||

[woven tulip]

no

it isn’t

[cursive ravine]

I’m pretty sure it is

[woven tulip]

||yeah, but damaging kris damages your soul and vice verse||

[signal grail]

i put fight in quotes for that reason

[alpine estuary]

spoilers for chapter 2 and 4, including weird route
||that's true, but i also think that some sort of confrontation with susie is inevitable. i foresee a fight (moreso in weird route) but it could for sure be something much smaller too like argument dialogue. there's just a lot of foreshadowing for it, especially with the "the thing that pisses me off the most is when people don't tell you the whole deal" combined with kris being manipulative and making noelle kill a bunch of people. plus we saw how she freaked out on ralsei in chapter 4 when she realised he wasn't telling her everything, and that wasn't even as serious as how kris is affecting people in weird route||

idk for sure though

[cursive ravine]

And this is why I’m not doing the weird route

I don’t want to hurt the lesbians

[woven tulip]

||there was already susie fight in chapter 1 /j||

[alpine estuary]

spoiler tag please!

[woven tulip]

tbh i think the route isn’t a solution

[woven tulip]

that’s chapter 2 💔

[cursive ravine]

It isn’t a spoiler?

[alpine estuary]

||vs. susie reprise would go so hard ||

[signal grail]

||i could see it happening if kris is alone and it could mirror susie vs lancer. i think susie is gonna have a disagreement with kris anyway because the soul and their relationship with the knight/carol/dess is kept completely hidden||

[alpine estuary]

oh i forgot this is only for chapter 3-4, mb!

[woven tulip]

it ||probably would just make it worse, not be a "good ending" at the end||

[alpine estuary]

another deltarune spoiler channel i talk in has it for all chapters so i forgot it's different here

[cursive ravine]

But yeah I’m not doing weird route because I am not a psychopath /j

[signal grail]

[woven tulip]

or ||it literally would have no effect, and you tortured friends for no reason ||

[cursive ravine]

Guys I want to know how everyone thinks gaster is going to be in deltarune because to be honest people who say gaster won’t be in it know they are lying to themselves

[woven tulip]

but what if you get all shadow crystals on the weird route?

[cursive ravine]

It probably will have a thingy

[signal grail]

tbh i think all crystals on the weird route might be a requirement to continue it

bc of the twisted sword craft

[prisma zealot]

||the third sanctuary|| MY BELOVED RAHHHH 🗣️🔥🔥

[woven tulip]

then noelle has to go to castle town

otherwise you couldn’t craft it

[prisma zealot]

or she just gives the thornring back to you/you take it back

[signal grail]

you can probably take it off her next chapter

[cursive ravine]

Btw everyone if you know there is a image you can find by clicking on different images and stuff in the deltarune website (don’t know which) and it shows 2 as a big number 3 smaller 4 bigger but not as big and 5 I think same size as 4 maybe a little smaller

[signal grail]

the twisted sword might also just be a feature for aborted snowgrave bc you can get thornring that way

[prisma zealot]

yeah

[cursive ravine]

People (and me) think that weird route will end at chapter five because of this

[woven tulip]

...maybe it really won’t actually change anything at the end

[signal grail]

i think ending the route early would be really strange

[cursive ravine]

Well it’s called the WEIRD route

[signal grail]

considering that would immediately forgo the "only one ending" part of the description before the game is complete and its mirror (genocide) lasts through all areas even if it is much shorter

[prisma zealot]

guess things really took a weird route huh

[cursive ravine]

You do know it’s probably just lying to you right

[woven tulip]

it has a question mark after "one ending"

[cursive ravine]

Yeah

They are probably just lying

Or half lying

[signal grail]

yeah but whats the point if it gets disproved before the game is even complete

[cursive ravine]

That is true

Idk

[alpine estuary]

||yeah for sure. i foresee a confrontation in all routes but i don't know if it would be a fight in regular route. honestly if it was a fight, i could see it going like kris trying to reason with susie and if it's in the dark world, ralsei could help explain. i'm guessing ralsei knows more about what "the cage" part of the prophecy means but doesn't expect kris to be helping the roaring knight (also this "theory" in this message of mine is half assed cause i'm in weird mind sorry :p)||

[woven tulip]

||your mind is going a weird route ||

[cursive ravine]

||in the files pf every chapter you can find your goner sprite so it’s probably going to come back||

[alpine estuary]

the final boss battle at chapter 7 weird route be like "damn, you've been busy, huh? almost like some kind of genocide route" /j

[alpine estuary]

true

[cursive ravine]

What if

[signal grail]

kris, i remember you're weird snowgraves

[prisma zealot]

"and i have to say, people like you PISS ME OFF."

[cursive ravine]

Sans is the secret boss of chapter seven /j

[signal grail]

FUCK

i didnt know that was tenor

[prisma zealot]

TENOR BLAST

[weary granite]

||The final fight against Susie and Gerson is going to go hard||

[cursive ravine]

||kris and the soul||

[alpine estuary]

||i saw this theory that kris is a sort of homunculus created by gaster (or someone else) and that the goners are attempted homunculi that failed. i thought that was very interesting but i don't think it has too much backing||

[alpine estuary]

true

[weary granite]

||I dunno, Kris vs Soul is very one sided lol||

[alpine estuary]

true

[alpine estuary]

[weary granite]

IM THE ORIGINAL SUSIE

[cursive ravine]

||yeah we don’t hate Kris really||

[alpine estuary]

this meme is so funny

[cursive ravine]

||besides weird route I guess but even that is a little shakey||

[clear sparrow]

||what why would you hate Kris in weird route||

[alpine estuary]

||i feel when kris does good things in weird route or stops the soul from doing bad things, the soul in weird route is just like... "oh brother, this person STINKS!!" /meme reference||

[clear sparrow]

||weird route makes Kris more likeable honestly because they actually try to damage control and stop the soul when possible||

[cursive ravine]

||idk it’s the closest it gets to hate||

[weary granite]

||shouldnt have hit us with a hocket puck smh

Also unironically, the end of ch4 weird route really hurt me, Kris's entire world is falling apart...||

[alpine estuary]

||"hah, this person again. chat, raid their house and throw a pipe bomb in there" ||

[clear sparrow]

||and also the soul makes their life absolute hell so erm i just feel bad ||

[woven tulip]

you do if you play the weird route

[cursive ravine]

||Basically soul is attacking kris because it’s funny||

[weary granite]

Kris when they were younger (the heart cant amount to their shenanigans)

[cursive ravine]

):<

[alpine estuary]

yeah..

[warm island]

||the soul should just clasp hands with kris and they should both find mutual ground in killing sans||

[alpine estuary]

true

[alpine estuary]

chapter 4 ending spoilers

i hate how images are blurred but not blacked out when you spoil them

[weary granite]

||At least in the normal route Kris has their friends and a date with Berdly....in the weird route, hes got nothin||

[alpine estuary]

cause you can kinda tell what it is

[warm island]

a tank is still visible through the fog of war /silly

[weary granite]

Ch5 plotline

[warm island]

manifesting

[cursive ravine]

||Guys which character will be in chapter 4 from the light world do you think||

[woven tulip]

none

[cursive ravine]

There is probably going to be atleast one

Every other chapter has

[warm island]

chapter four soilers

[cursive ravine]

||gerson counts||

[woven tulip]

||you said in chapter 4 💔||

[alpine estuary]

chapter 4||yeah their whole world just... crumbles. and noelle's house in chapter 4 weird route hurts so much (obviously how insanely terrible the soul manipulates noelle) but also because it's made clear that kris is trying to rectify everything, make everything happy, and make everything go back to normal||

[weary granite]

||Half Lightner half Darkner blah blah

Gerson is amazing anyhow||

[cursive ravine]

I think it still counts

Asgore will probably be chapter 5

[alpine estuary]

lmao

[heady fossil]

||"I'm the original starwalker, and these lighteners are really pissing me off"||

[cursive ravine]

If not

Uhhhh

Idk

Niko oneshot

[weary granite]

||At least this kinda confirms (at least for me) that Kris dorsnt mind us as much in the normal route cause we are helping them make more friends and its generally not a bad time, though that doesnt mean Kris likes us but not as hostile :D||

[weary granite]

At this point it almost feels guranteed

[cursive ravine]

Yeah

The only other person it could possibly be is sans but that chance is so slim it’s basically nonexistent

[woven tulip]

i kinda wonder how human dialogues look like. i mean, monsters have monochrome portraits but darkners have colored. would it too be monochrome?

||also gerson conveniently has no portrait||

[cursive ravine]

||the knight is so mean):<||

[warm island]

||does asgore holding the black shard imply that he fought and lived against the roaring knight ||

[weary granite]

Could be both, the formula that we expect for chapters constantly gets challenged

[alpine estuary]

||seeing asgore have his trident thing really made me think, we really need to find out if lightners can use their abilities in the light world. every lightner has the ability to make a dark fountain, so that might clue us in to the idea that they might have their abilities still.

plus, in chapter 4 we see that sans can teleport still... though the theory that he could be from a different universe could be true, for all we know. there's not anything against it yet. that could explain why he can teleport still||

[weary granite]

Lightners have monochrome so I dont doubt it'll be like that for other humans

[signal grail]

||where does he teleport||

[woven tulip]

so far we only seen monsters, though

[alpine estuary]

yeah for sure

[cursive ravine]

What?

When?

[alpine estuary]

i'll see if i can find a video

[cursive ravine]

What are you talking about

[alpine estuary]

it's in the town at the beginning of the game

[woven tulip]

||creation of dark fountains seems to be unrelated to magic||

[alpine estuary]

||it's a secret scene in chapter 4, in the holiday mansion||

[cursive ravine]

Oh right

[alpine estuary]

it def could be

[woven tulip]

||kris can’t use magic||

[cursive ravine]

I forgor

[signal grail]

they dont use magic, it doesnt mean that they cant

[weary granite]

Eh, Lightners and Darkners seem to be the bigger focus, I dont believe Monsters and Humans really are too different outside of the dark world

[cursive ravine]

||Well humans in undertale forgot too so idk||

[signal grail]

ralsei says to susie healing magic is easy and anyone can learn it right in front of kris

[warm island]

two minutes and thirty nine seconds into this clip
can't be bothered cropping sorgy

chapter four soilers

[signal grail]

||theres a black katana in the same room, he may have found it just then||

i dont think we have enough info right now to say for sure

[broken solstice]

Hello Sans is Ness truthers

[signal grail]

hello normal people (you cant say hello back if you arent normal)

[weary granite]

||Thats what seems to be happening, imo he fought the Knight after eentering the dark fountain, chipping away at the blade like Susie. If the Knight was someone like Dess, then everyone else would have assumed he attempted to kill Dess

Imo, this is the only real way I can see how he fell from grace, he fought the roaring knight to help everyone, but it was misinterpeted to him hurting an innocent person, I cant really think of much else as to why Toriel despises him so much while Asgore thinking he still has a chance

(Heavy speculation though, we really cant tell until its confirmed later)||

[cursive ravine]

||it would be awesome that asgore fought the knight||

[cursive ravine]

Bye

[alpine estuary]

DELTARUNE CHAPTER 4 SPOILERS || he teleports between screens around 48:47 in the video. you see him next to his shop, then when you walk up a screen transition, he's by a grill. this could be written off as just "toby probably didn't think that hard", but i think he did, since no other character has teleported between screens like this, to my knowledge. plus... it's sans doing it, and sans is the only undertale character who can teleport (besides mayyyybe flowey but that's debatable)

https://youtu.be/CDfxSVyoaS8?si=4yIZorADBCLisFGc||

[weary granite]

It really would be

[alpine estuary]

true

[warm island]

||the part about falling from grace there definitely seems plausible yeag, wish he had more to say in other chapters so theories could be more concrete||

[weary granite]

Also sorry about the soiler for this one, I forgor to spoiler tag it and I had to spoiler tag it WHILE talking to my Boss LOL

[cursive ravine]

||if that theory is true in any way it most likely means carol isn’t the knight which I believe to be true and think carol is working for the knight like kris||

[weary granite]

||Yeah, I really cant think of any other reason why his fall from grace is so huge with a possibly of him coming back

If he just straight up killed a person I dont think he himself would believe he still has a chance||

[warm island]

||i doubt carol would have him working at her house if he was the neighborhood murderer, don't think we've got another case of him killing six kids ||

[signal grail]

oh lmao i see

[alpine estuary]

egg room spoilers ||in the egg room of a chapter (idr which one) a dialogue implies that dess went missing in the forest and that asgore was there but lost them. that's more of just a theory of how to interpret that dialogue though since it's incredibly vague. it is a good theory as to why everyone hates asgore now though and why he was fired from chief of police||

[signal grail]

||carol might know more than others since shes also financially supporting him||

[warm island]

||i just think of the shitpost that uses this context to recreate the scene from open season||

[cursive ravine]

||maybe dess was going to the forest to sneak out and do knight stuff but then asgore followed and the fight thing happened||

[weary granite]

||The egg room is where I got my theory from actually, that and Asgore's dialogue suggests at least some form of these events

These egg rooms feel like repressed memories tbh, something Kris doesnt want us to know||

[alpine estuary]

||and would be a good reason as to why why he wants to help carol around the house and such so bad. could redeem him ||

[grand raft]

chapter 4 || is there a way to kill titan by just acting?||

[halcyon finch]

the shit susie eats:

[signal grail]

yes

[grand raft]

||i hate having to fight i prefer acting||

[cursive ravine]

||how does everyone think gaster will come into the deltarune story||

[grand raft]

for real??? how

[warm island]

||the hush money is real /silly||

[alpine estuary]

possibly!

[weary granite]

||And if Carol knows what actually happened (and is in fact helping the knight) I can see why Carol is helping him out, he is a victim of circumstance trying to do his job and everyone saw a monster instead

Carol imo definitely has a heart and probably feels kinda bad||

[signal grail]

||after fighting for a while you can only finish the fight by acting||

[grand raft]

what act?

i feel sad now, ||he is the only one i had to kill||

actually i don’t think i ||fought him after the old man came||

[signal grail]

||susies idea i think? i dont remember exactly||

[warm island]

yaur it's called this

[grand raft]

you can win without this act?????

[signal grail]

no

[warm island]

i don't think you can tbh

[signal grail]

you cant i tried

[grand raft]

so that’s not really considered ||killing without having to fight, only acting||

[weary granite]

||It was an act of force, you had to stop it because for it, there is no redemption, for it, there is no mercy

we had to put it down||

[cursive ravine]

||dess is probably the knight with carol being a second option ||

[weary granite]

I hate mobile

[grand raft]

what if you try to jump really high || and get on his mouth yourself||

[weary granite]

||Goomba stomp it||

[warm island]

papyrus believers stay losing

[grand raft]

this

[mild hull]

was there ever any actual evidence for that one

[weary granite]

||Dess and Papyrus are doing the piggy back method||

[warm island]

process of elimination i think

[signal grail]

yes

the strongest piece of evidence is in chapter 4

[alpine estuary]

||yeah true, the egg rooms are def repressed memories. at first in the chapter 4 egg room, i thought some of the dialogue was implying that kris killed someone (the "you can never wash it all away" dialogue is a common metaphor for guilt from a murder) but i'm now thinking that maybe kris was there with asgore and dess in the forest. and maybe kris and dess were messing around in there, trying to get ahead of asgore to rebel and got lost. then dess got lost (or maybe something or someone took them, like gaster???) and asgore blamed it on himself since he couldn't be there to make sure dess didn't get lost ||

[weary granite]

Its funny, thats it lol

||Also the body shape is very identical to Undertale papyrus||

[warm island]

||they're both in a trenchcoat||

[cursive ravine]

||after you see the knight if you interact with sans door it will say there is no sound and the fog that comes after you fight the knight is the same as the fog when you fight papyrus in undertale||

[signal grail]

||i dont think its more likely than dess knight but it definitely has substance to it||

[weary granite]

||I can definitely see it, maybe the black shard could be him finding a piece of Dess after transforming?||

[alpine estuary]

||and kris blamed themself too which is why they'd feel so guilty and want to repress the memories. they could also want to repress it if they saw something incomprehensible like gaster or whatever created the roaring knight||

[warm island]

yurp and some classic toby fox foreshadowing

[cursive ravine]

||most of the people who “believe” is papyrus knight just think it’s funny that there are stuff pointing at it||

[warm island]

i want to believe it solely because i think it's funny

[cursive ravine]

To be honest papyrus at most will be a fake out thing

[broken solstice]

Papyrus knight would contribute absolutely nothing to the narrative apart from ||one more reason to kill sans||

[weary granite]

I was already on board with it
(/silly)

[cursive ravine]

||I like how everyone has no reason to hate sans for the end of chapter 4 especially since we are distinct from Kris but we do||

[weary granite]

||Its honestly funnier thinking this is just how Dess looks||

[cursive ravine]

No that’s just disgusting

[warm island]

||it kind of feels bad reading how hard asgore is trying to impress toriel only for her to be falling for sans so that's something driving my dislike towards him||

[weary granite]

[prisma zealot]

||"one of the main villains side kick" ass build||

[warm island]

this is now my headcanon after the fourth chapter

[alpine estuary]

||that's really interesting! actually some fairly strong evidence there. not super strong but strong enough for it to be viable. would be a good idea to add a twist, too. to make people think that the roaring knight is papyrus in chapter 1, then make everyone think it's dess in chapter 2 and 3, then carol in chapter 4, then dess again in chapter 4... then curveball and reveal it as papyrus again.

the one issue i have with it being papyrus is that his personality in undertale is incredibly removed from what the roaring knight is doing, and i don't know what the motive would be. unless papyrus was like corrupted and manipulated by gaster, i can't really see it for his personality||

[cursive ravine]

||well they could just be friends||

||atleast in toriel a eyes||

[cursive ravine]

||yeah papyrus would never be corrupted it goes against their character||

[warm island]

||personally i think she's being a bit flirty with sans, and the description of the ketchup in the fridge calls it invasive so i'm not really a fan of it||

maybe i'm overthinking it

i dunno

[alpine estuary]

||ehh, i'm more inclined to dislike asgore from it. it's clear toriel is not interested. he should accept that and move on. that said, i still feel really bad for him cause his whole life kinda crumbled just like kris's did||

[warm island]

||yus i would hate to think toby doesn't give him some kind of resolution||

[cursive ravine]

||well your mean and rude):< /j||

[alpine estuary]

true

[alpine estuary]

||true, unless it's some sort of supernatural/scientific corruption, like an experiment or something||

||like using magic ||

[weary granite]

||Its a case of divorced parents finding new people and their kids are often om the back seat, Sans himself isnt really doing anything wrong but after everything Kris went through and feeling really shitty while trying to sleep and Sans in general being a jerk on all the chapters makes him very unlikeable||

[cursive ravine]

||even then I’d like to think papyrus’s vibes would over come it||

||guys what if sans sees the soul in a later chapter and idk get Deja vu or something like that and doesn’t like it because of undertale||

[weary granite]

||Yeah thats also a big part of it

Imo, I really didnt like Toriel in ch4, since she seemed negligant toward Kris's well being and also not really caring much about them? I dont mind Sans as much but I understand the hostility||

[alpine estuary]

||i kinda feel like if he is in chapter 5, he might die in the weird route. that's just a hunch based on pretty much nothing, though. i'm wondering how serious the game is going to get.

with all the seriousness, finality, and world-ending foreboding of chapter 4, i wonder if there are going to be any "silly chapters" like the prior chapters||

[alpine estuary]

[weary granite]

||I think Sans from Undertale and Deltarune are the same, with Deltarune being before Undertale

There is a lot of context pointing to it, and I feel really bad because of how its shown, it seems that Sans constantly thinks about the night he had with Toriel ||

[signal grail]

:D

oops wrong chat

[signal grail]

that isnt sans fault

[alpine estuary]

||yeah true. sans is just being his usual, jokey self... but he can't figure out how to be more serious when it counts (note: serious and gentle. not serious like his insane threats in undertale lol)||

[cursive ravine]

||eh I think it would go better if they are different sans but still have some connection so he still gets Deja vu and stuff and maybe even thinks undertale was a bad/good dream||

[warm island]

it's harder for me to dislike ||toriel than sans||
i get that it's a bit unreasonable

[weary granite]

||I think that San's definitely grew a backbone after going to the Undertale verse, but is still his joking self

Amd I wouldnt be suprised if his Undertale variant was going through a lot of issues which would have made him more serious

His discussions with Toriel in Undertale is evem more sad tho, him trying to reconnect to a friend who doenst even remember him||

[signal grail]

||we dont really know what the knights true motive is or even if theyre aware of the roaring, he could be making fountains just for escapism or to practice his fighting or because hes lonely etc. papyrus knight can probably be ruled out for sure if the knight turns out to be an actually villainous character though||

[signal grail]

it isnt toriels fault either

honestly its very possible toriel does know whats going on with asgore because it was the same way in undertale

asgore had to make a difficult decision for the good of his people and toriel didnt agree with it and neither of them were particularly in the wrong

[weary granite]

||With how San's Undertale story went, it definitely feels like they are the same and would be fun to explore :D

There is a good few bits of evidence to show his Deltarune variant being his past self, it doesnt strike me much as a red herring||

[alpine estuary]

||id say it's kind of her fault, along with sans. not completely, but a bit. both toriel and sans are kinda being bad in deltarune. toriel is mostly not being that way, as shown in chapter 2's end, but she's kind of neglectful in the latest chapter. she locks the door on accident which locks susie and kris out in the rain, she doesn't call kris to ask where they are when she hasn't seen them in hours, still doesn't call them when it's like 12:00 am... and at like 3:00 am, she still doesn't call them or search for them or anything. i know she's like drunk and having a date with sans, but she should still be worried about where her kid is at when she knows they're not home and it's dark outside ||

[cursive ravine]

Eh I personally believe #1379482184980758598 message

[signal grail]

||i do hope asgore gets a story that paints him positively or at least ambiguous like undertale, but i think it would be really shitty storytelling if asgore and toriel actually got back together||

[warm island]

it'd be a parallel which the game is described as being so i can see that ringing true

[signal grail]

im referring to this specifically #1379482184980758598 message

[cursive ravine]

It goes with the parallel story thing

[signal grail]

i agree toriel makes some bad decisions

[heady fossil]

I don't need a reason to do it anyway

[alpine estuary]

||imo the knight is already villainous. they keep trying to kill people (and actually killing people), using people in sacrifices, etc, regardless of the roaring. and they show a minor amount of knowledge, since they know they can create titans by making a fountain in a dark world. there's like, no other reason i can think of that they'd do that right as the heroes have them backed against a wall ||

[alpine estuary]

ik!

oh wait no i misread

well, more like, i read correctly then forgot what i was replying to so i started talking about something else lol

[signal grail]

:3

[weary granite]

||Imo, Sans being the same person makes more sense

Sans is the only undertale character we know who bleeds and in Deltarune we know through Susie that monsters do bleed

Sans is also the only one who has photos of what seems to be the Deltarune crew, with three heroes and a plethora of people from their past life

The Undertale variant also knows what the Sun is, which Papyrus didnt (though this one is a little bit less important)

Another important thing is the musical connection, everytime Undertale Sans thinks of his past (via the photos next to the machine or him generally talking about it) the music "Its raining somewhere else plays" and in Deltarune right before we see Sans dancing with Toriel, the music "The place where it rained" plays and leaves out San's theme specifically

Imo, there is definitely a big connection||

[cursive ravine]

||we don’t know if mosters can’t bleed it was never stated||

[cursive ravine]

||we also don’t know if the photo is deltarune people||

[signal grail]

||its so interesting that sans bleeding was initially seen as "oh he just has a ketchup sachet under his hoodie" but with deltarune now it could be actual blood||

[weary granite]

||We dont but it very much is hinted at it with the three heroes

Though it isnt stated, Susie herself shows blood after punching the prophecy sign and her generally phrasing "Doesnt everyone bleed?" In the first chapter||

[cursive ravine]

||the raining song in deltarune isn’t connected to sans||

[weary granite]

||It very much is, with it being a main part of his theme||

[cursive ravine]

||in deltarune?||

[weary granite]

||"Where it rained" is just the part of the "Its raining somewhere else" but literally just removed San's theme||

[signal grail]

theyre explicitly connected

[warm island]

|| i want to think toby isn't afraid to cross out major characters if push comes to shove so maybe he'll have some badass sacrifice later down the line, character redeemed /silly

i wouldn't be satisfied with green pastures and the two of them together again tbh, what happened between them already reads as pretty final from the start of the game, it's just kinda sad to see asgore under the impression that toriel will forgive him after everything is said and done but that motivation is better than nothing i suppose

the view i shared on tori and sans earlier was a bit melodramatic maybe sorgy, it's like five in the morning ||

[signal grail]

||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNd4apsr3WE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSc7Yuwn1Ao||

[weary granite]

Both of these songs are georgeous and the tone is different for the second one despite it just being part of the first

[signal grail]

||its raining somewhere else also shows up while sans is talking about toriel, in deltarune it plays just before you see toriel and sans together||

[cursive ravine]

Well it was raining I don’t think that really mean connected

[signal grail]

do you see the song names

[cursive ravine]

That’s not the point

[alpine estuary]

||this is interesting! i like this idea. i always assumed that sans is from undertale, not the other way around. i guess i only thought that because undertale released first. but this makes more sense chronologically ||

[weary granite]

The song names and musical notes are identical for a reason

[signal grail]

the track would be called something else if it werent supposed to be correlated

[weary granite]

Toby loves adding signficance to the songs

[signal grail]

leitmotifs are one of the most important storytelling functions in both games

[warm island]

some of them are iconic for characters even

[weary granite]

We see this with the secret boss musics, with each secret boss ||(besides the knight)|| having the freedom motiff

[alpine estuary]

I FUCKING LOVE LEITMOTIFS!!!!!!

[cursive ravine]

I just personally think it isn’t going to be that both of them are the same

Of course they have th same leitmotif

They are the same character

But different universes

I think that at most it will be a connection through Deja vu

And that it is parallel universes but they remember some of each others memories

[weary granite]

||Me when Freedom played for one microsecond in Gerson's fight||

[weary granite]

Fair enough, imo I dont think thats the case but agree to disagree

||I dont remember if the Knight had the freedom motiff but distorted, it may just be an internet rumor||

[cursive ravine]

Both of the theories could be true

[weary granite]

I FORGOT I HAD THIS ON MY PHONE LOLLLL

[prisma zealot]

trans flag

[alpine estuary]

SPOILERS IN VIDEO'S DESCRIPTION AND COMMENTS
if you love leitmotifs you might love this fanmade track. it's so fucking good. the premise is if there was a susie fight reprise, where she fights you for real this time and doesn't hold back.

spoilers for chapter 4! ||the leitmotifs they implemented are MeGaLoVania (Homestuck), The Holy, Megalovania (Undertale), Vs. Susie, Hammer of Justice, Freedom, Don't Forget, and Girl Next Door||

||https://youtu.be/J0m7UC6Ld8w?si=B5vJkVpjGxzHrbme||

[weary granite]

I hope next chapter expands on Sans more, I believe this is setting him up big time :D

[alpine estuary]

||they do have it iirc. they also have a warped, almost "opposite" different version of lost girl, which i think could be more evidence that the knight is dess||

||you have to change a few notes and keys to make it lost girl but the structure and cadence is very similar||

[weary granite]

I LOVE IT HOLY!!!

[warm island]

||or at least a holiday, personally methinks dess is a more likely candidate too but people seem to think it's carol||

[cursive ravine]

I also like my theory because it means sans could have a reaction to the soil

[weary granite]

Oh shoot noted

[signal grail]

🏳️‍⚧️

[woven tulip]

||you know that we fought the titan and saw a sad scene with ralsei??? it’s as off putting for us as for them||

[cursive ravine]

It’s not sans fault

[warm island]

gonna go eep i think
thankies for yapping lightners

[weary granite]

||It doesnt have to be for people to feel that way, it parallels what kids have to deal with divorced parents finding new people irl

I agree that San's probably doesnt understand what he is doing to elicit such a response, but he also isnt helping by acting like a jerk in previous moments||

[alpine estuary]

||both my friend and i thought it was carol too but after we talked about evidence to the contrary a while, we're almost certain it's dess. ...if that's not another red herring at least lol...

some interesting evidence i saw recently is there are two parts of the game where a guitar plays that's so quiet you can only hear it by going into the files and making that specific sound louder. one of the times, it was exactly the sound that plays when susie plays dess's guitar, and it was backed by dialogue that vaguely points to the knight too. even if dess isn't the knight, toby wouldn't have put those there if dess doesn't play a bigger role at some point.

i really like how deltarune has multiple "gasters", so to speak - multiple mysterious entities that are explicitly in the background to connect everything to. in undertale, everything was pointing to the mysterious entity known as "gaster". that was the whole thing for lore people and theorists to latch onto. it all connected back to him, right? well deltarune has 3.5 "gasters" in that way. gaster himself, the knight (though the knight is much more in the forefront of everything than the background so they only count as half), dess of course, and papyrus||

[weary granite]

||did you see the 1225 easter egg?||

[alpine estuary]

bye bye!

[alpine estuary]

true

[alpine estuary]

||i think so! i remember it vaguely. it's the one in the menu right? or is there a different one too? i need to watch the scene again to remember better cause i don't remember exactly what the dialogue was and such||

||oh wait i might be thinking of 666? i can't remember ||

[signal grail]

||at the gotchy ball machine||

[cursive ravine]

||I have it’s weird||

[hardy marsh]

||I like how consistent it is that whenever someone says Ralsei looks kinda like Asriel Kris always gets defensive about it and proceeds to point out how different they are||

[alpine estuary]

||i saw chapter all of 2, 3, and 4 within just a week, all for the first time. plus my memory is just really bad in general. so the information overload plus bad memory equals there's a BUNCH of stuff im very spotty on lol ||

[alpine estuary]

OH YEAH

[prisma zealot]

||You couldn't find

your hand||

[weary granite]

Let me send the vid|| https://youtu.be/ZiyKLmIBCKM?si=_fauXUvx-9EZ3fI_||

Summary of what happens in the easter egg
||If you put in 1225 in the ball machine in ch3, you get send to a secret room, if you walk around it you find an object that is triangular, completely black, and hard interior (like Lacquer) which is different to shadow crystals but has a similar property (letting you see through your own hand)||

My theory
||This is Dess's guitar pick, since it is hard and can be see through, it represents the guitar she plays and also the seeing through her hand is something that the Knight is known to have, this definitely gives significant parallels if my prediction is correct||

[hardy marsh]

||Makes me wonder if Asriel is actually that different lol, maybe he ends up having a totally different design, goat features aside||

[alpine estuary]

||i remember now. idr what the dialogue was though but i remember you can input the number and it brings you to the secret area right? then there's the terrifying dialogue with kris not being able to see their hand||

[signal grail]

asriel would look the same way he does in undertale

[prisma zealot]

||i mean its much easier to differanciate two people if one of them is literally your brother||

[hardy marsh]

Yeah

[prisma zealot]

||not to mention their personalities||

[weary granite]

||Asriel lived long enough to be a college student, for all we know he shows up with beer in a hand (jk)||

[hardy marsh]

Lmao

||i mean he will probably look much taller and older||

[weary granite]

||But yeah I dont doubt Asriel will have significant changes solely because he finally went through puberty||

[hardy marsh]

How was the thing with Boss Monsters in Undertale? they only age when they have kids or something?

[signal grail]

yes

[hardy marsh]

So if they never do they just look like Young adults forever?

[signal grail]

i guess

whatever age they were when their kids died

[hardy marsh]

Just did that
Yumme Nikki ass shit

[hardy marsh]

Oh so they stop when their kid dies?

That's weird lol

Some magical force that makes you age only and as long as you have a child

[signal grail]

i think so

[weary granite]

They basically siphon their essence to their kids, dying in the process

[hardy marsh]

Ahhhhh

Makes sense if it's that

cool concept

[civic mason]

delta rune

[hardy marsh]

||So apart from small character moments and that one scene, i guess nothing really changes from chapter 3-4 if you do the weird route||

[weary granite]

Judging by how the Deltarune characters act with ages, they age just like a human would

Also ||Gerson being old af||

[prisma zealot]

||Think about Noelle||

[weary granite]

||Ch3 no, Ch4 has significant implications, but yeah not much changes gameplay wise||

[signal grail]

||the main plot is the same but the trajectory of the story is much different||

[hardy marsh]

That does change but nothing Gameplaywise like in chapter 2

[alpine estuary]

YEAH I SAW THIS! ||there's also big foreshadowing that kris is going to lose their hand at some point. this dialogue being the biggest, imo, since it's so fucking specific and heavy. but there's other foreshadowing too like in the chapter 4 egg room, a dialogue from susie against the knight, and a few others ||

[weary granite]

||Tbh, I dont want to think about whats going on with her||

[alpine estuary]

that's a good theory!

[hardy marsh]

Turtles live for long

[weary granite]

Oh shoot I did not think about this

Thx for the new perspective!!

[signal grail]

||i really want to know how kris losing their hand is going to be emotionally resonant in the story||

||ratehr than just a shock moment||

[hardy marsh]

Finn Adventure time

[prisma zealot]

||"as long as kris has a hand to get me up with" ||

[signal grail]

real

[cursive ravine]

How does everyone think gaster will be introduced in deltarune and what do you think his role will be

[signal grail]

shrug

we still know nothing about him

[cursive ravine]

Well still

[weary granite]

||Gerson lived a long enough life

Time for his son to stop slacking smh smh||

[hardy marsh]

Lmao

Did the war happen in Deltarune

Like in Undertale

[weary granite]

Who knows

||Im thinking similar to how Flowey was done, where he shows up here and there but isnt significant until the very end, but I have literally no evidence of this lol||

[alpine estuary]

||idk, it very well could be just a shock moment but even shock moments have substance in the story (specifically in this moment at least). in media losing your hand often serves for great character development, story progression, and allegories to the meta. like in star wars||

[weary granite]

Doesnt seem like it

Hell it seems like they are just treated as slightly diff monsters, with stereotypes and all

But we only have one sample size

[hardy marsh]

Lmaaaaoo

I wonder why theres no humans, maybe it's just a Monster town and they adopted a human

just weird for them to have a book about taking care of humans

[alpine estuary]

||i love how even after undertale, we still don't know that much about him. great mystery to be revealed. i saw this like 30 minute video essay about why gaster is important to deltarune (before chapter 3 and 4 released iirc!) and i haven't watched it yet but i've been wanting to do so ||

[hardy marsh]

It's like an American book about taking care of Spanish kids

[weary granite]

Probably cause there is no humans there

No real demand lol

[alpine estuary]

probably not, but it could have!

[signal grail]

it hasnt been mentioned yet

[cursive ravine]

Gaster is definitely the voice in the goner creation

And on twitter

[weary granite]

And also the voice who talks to us in ||Ch 1, 3 and 4||

Same cadence, same vocabulary, a lot of similarities

[alpine estuary]

||i'm guessing not, since there's some dialogue that lightly implies otherwise, like a book in the library called something like "how to care for your human". unless hometown is very far removed from a war, or it's way way way in the future after the war, i doubt that book would still be in libraries in a world where the war happened||

[cursive ravine]

Anyone who thinks gaster won’t be in deltarune are kidding themselves

[alpine estuary]

i think this was in chapter 2 but i'm spoiling it just in case because it may have been chapter 3. i don't remember

[alpine estuary]

someone else already mentioned this book just barely and i didn't see it sorry :p

[weary granite]

Also, the monsters definitely would have referennced someone like that to Kris

But all the monsters seem at least cordial

[alpine estuary]

oh yeah for sure

people would probably be much less nice to kris

well hometown is, in general, currently kind of a "safe haven" of an area it seems like, where everyone knows everyone and is nice to everyone (with some exceptions)

like think of the bit in the very beginning of chapter 1 where all the characters are waving to toriel and kris in the car lol

[weary granite]

Oh yeah troo, Toriel seems like they try to get on everyone's good side and what we know of how Kris act....well they definitely can be mistakened for a Fantasy goblin....

[alpine estuary]

||specifically i'm reminded of the tiny bunny rabbit child in the window of a flat in chapter 4. they were really scared of susie, but not scared of kris||

[alpine estuary]

lol true!

[cursive ravine]

I hope Toby fox stubs his toe):<

[civic mason]

jelyfish in deltarune wen

[cursive ravine]

Never

[civic mason]

noo

[prisma zealot]

would onionsan count as some sort of a jellyfish

[clear sparrow]

deltarune cancelled

[prisma zealot]

more like a fucked up sea monster i think

[alpine estuary]

wtf

evil,

/j

[cursive ravine]

||WHY DID HE MAKE THE MANTLE SO HIDDEN BECAUSE NOW IM FIGHTING THE KNIGHT MANTLE LESS AND IM ANGRY):<<<<<||

[signal grail]

it isnt that hidden

[cursive ravine]

||It is for someone who doesn’t do stuff like S rank stuff):<||

It’s so rude

Also guys I forgot how do we know gaster has holes in his hands?

[alpine estuary]

||i think it is. at least, the fact that you have to go back to it multiple times throughout the chapter makes it a bit more hidden (plus the secrets within the game itself, like going through the forest with your sword, and killing your companions) because there's nothing telling you to go back to it again right? i mean, there is an implication but there's not really anything specific telling you to go back after certain points in the chapter||

[signal grail]

||the s rank room is pretty in your face and you should be curious whats behind it for getting multiple s ranks||

||i think the most obscure part is the 3rd one since you dont actually get a rank and its still different||

[alpine estuary]

||plus yeah. in most games, getting a certain rank doesn't do much other than give you a high score or a small reward. so someone might not assume it has secrets in there (especially if they aren't well acquainted with toby fox games)||

[alpine estuary]

yeah

[cursive ravine]

||I don’t like going back to do stuff because it’s boring plus I didn’t even like the Zelda and minigame parts||

||I DIDNT HAVE ENOUGH POINTS FOR THE BUY OPTION||

[signal grail]

im just saying its not that hidden

[alpine estuary]

||yeah, for sure. although, toby does love to make you do big puzzles to just let you get an extra sliver of dialogue or a healing item, so maybe people would expect that instead ||

[alpine estuary]

something can be hidden in plain sight you know /silly

[signal grail]

🐴

[prisma zealot]

how hungry

[cursive ravine]

[alpine estuary]

chapter 3 ||RALSEI??||

[signal grail]

||did you know that ralsei is an anagram for racehorse||

[alpine estuary]

||seriously though i love that ralsei thought the hay looked yummy after being a horse lol ||

[alpine estuary]

||okay let me spell it
racehorse||

oh my god you're right /silly

[prisma zealot]

rachee

rachees

roachees

oh my god

roach cheers

i found the secret

[cursive ravine]

||the knight fight is so unbalanced too there are attacks that take really good reaction time attacks that have so much that if you get hit once you are probably dead and worse of all attacks with stupid hit boxes (looking at you fast sword attack thing)||

[signal grail]

all of them are reactable

[cursive ravine]

Are you sure?

[alpine estuary]

not for everyone!

[cursive ravine]

WHERE IS OMNIMAN!!!!

I am a casual gamer I don’t play games super competitive and I don’t speed run

I’m not good at games

Atleast not that good

[alpine estuary]

||chat would you say undertale genocide is more disturbing, or deltarune weird route||

[alpine estuary]

same lol

[civic mason]

I shuld probably finish chapter 2

[cursive ravine]

Deltarune

[signal grail]

||i think bisect and phase 3 star storm are the hardest to react to, but the others have strats you can learn and consistently replicate||

[heady fossil]

||I'd probably say Weird route, I've done the No Mercy Route a dozen times and it brings me satisfaction, the weird route just makes me feel like a horrible manipulative monster (given, I haven't weird routed 3 & 4)||

[cursive ravine]

What the scallop is a ||bisect||

[civic mason]

whats the ||weird route||

[signal grail]

||the attack where they slice the middle of the box and it shoots projectiles on either side||

[alpine estuary]

||strangely enough, bisect (if that's the right one i'm thinking of) is the one my friend is best at||

[signal grail]

||its very simple but its easy to mess up if you just pick the wrong direction by mistake||

[civic mason]

wy sad reaction
did I do something wrong

[alpine estuary]

you should maybe finish all the chapters before being here since this is for deltarune spoilers including weird route, and chapter 3 and 4

[woven tulip]

||so sans in chapter 7 can say "kris, i remember you’re hand||

[civic mason]

o
sory

[civic mason]

o ok

[alpine estuary]

i'm sorry to suggest you leave! i just don't want you to get spoiled on accident

[woven tulip]

gaster is introduced before chapter 1

[alpine estuary]

true

[cursive ravine]

||I HATE THE SWORD ATTACK (the circle one) ITS SO UNFAIR!!!! ESPECIALLY ON JOYCON!!!!!||

[civic mason]

is ok
yu no need apology

[woven tulip]

i thought it would be just another silly easter egg

[alpine estuary]

||that's a hard one. it looks so cool though. i love the knight fight's vibes||

chapter 4 end spoilers ||i wish that the guardian fight was harder and incorporated more crazy attack techniques like the knight had||

[woven tulip]

ruffles, i remember you’re genocides

[alpine estuary]

||cause it didn't really feel like a "world-ending" kind of boss||

||the build-up to it definitely felt that way, but the boss itself didn't really feel like it ||

||that's like the only gripe i have with the entire game though||

[cursive ravine]

||IM ABOUT TO FACE THE FINAL ATTACK OF THE KNIGHT!!!!!||

||MY HEART IS POUNDING||

[woven tulip]

||it also has no mind, it probably can’t just do complex attacks. but it definitely should be a bit harder, it’s extremely easy with blackshard and shadow mantle, even compared to other main bosses, tbh even jackenstein is harder||

[cursive ravine]

||NOOOOOOOOOO||

||im going to go through the 5 stages of grief||

[heady fossil]

[cursive ravine]

[woven tulip]

it probably won’t be as difficult as before to try again .

[cursive ravine]

I’m still angry

[woven tulip]

||did you use hold breath act?||

[cursive ravine]

||yes i just used up my heals by the end||

[woven tulip]

also you probably should just defend with everyone on the last attack, if you didn’t

[cursive ravine]

I did):

I just didn’t have heals so Kris and Susie weren’t full health

[woven tulip]

the last attack?

[cursive ravine]

Yes):

[alpine estuary]

||yeah for sure. even without being too complex of smarts, one attack i had in mind was that they'd use their hands to influence the combat box in some way, like crushing half of the box or shaking it around a bunch, and shaking it around a ton like that could make your soul a bit slower for a turn. maybe another attack could be a giant laser could come out of their face. something like that||

[cursive ravine]

I’m taking a break

If I don’t I will have a heart attack

[woven tulip]

you might try to focus on healing only 2 of them at the end . like, i mean ||it’s better to heal susie (or idk who wears the shadow mantle), since others will usually be down in like few hits||

[cursive ravine]

Also I’m going to have to redo chapter 4 after this so I’m sad

I already beat chapter 3 and 4 I just didn’t beat the knight

[woven tulip]

wait

i’m not sure if it’s required actually

[cursive ravine]

The knight?

Or ||the mantle||

[woven tulip]

no, replaying next chapter

[signal grail]

||it sucks that their first shown move is the fuck you blue laser but it just doesnt show up at all in the actual fight :(||

[cursive ravine]

Eh im not taking the risk

[woven tulip]

||like spamton neo and the knight’s crystals appear in castle town in ch4 if you beat them on the same save slot, maybe they would in ch5 too ||

[cursive ravine]

Also who else ||blocked the other way when you saw the yellow arrows in the gerson fight||

[cursive ravine]

||again I’m not taking the risk||

[woven tulip]

but ||that’s just like undyne fight in undertale|| 💔

[cursive ravine]

It’s so rude I know

Toby definitely did it on purpose

[woven tulip]

well, it’s supposed ||to be spears, they have a pointy end obviously, but it’s probably intentional that it also makes them be confused with arrows||

[cursive ravine]

What

That isn’t what I’m talking about

I just forgot the word spear

[woven tulip]

then what

[cursive ravine]

What

[broken solstice]

Ch3 spoilers
||apparently if you are doing Sword Route, Kris starts doing 6 times more damage to Tenna ||

[woven tulip]

||i’m saying the spears also resemble arrows, so that could be confusing 💔||

[heady fossil]

Hey chat quick chapter 3 question, ||How do I even do the "weird" route??? I mean, do I just kill everything I can? Do I have to get all S-ranks?||

[woven tulip]

you can’t

there is ||no weird route in ch3||

[heady fossil]

Oh Alr

[woven tulip]

there are small optional differences, though

[hardy marsh]

||It's true that Kris is the one that deals the least amount of damage to the Knight, maybe 13? or so but i've noticed how if one team mate is down they do around 40-45 damage and if both are down they do between 60-80||

Ch3

[woven tulip]

||kris does half of usual damage by default, which doubles for each teammate down||

[hardy marsh]

Wonder why that is

[woven tulip]

||so 2x default attack at max||

but also, if i remember correctly ||knight takes reduced melee damage||

[weary granite]

||Rude buster does bypass it but yes reduced melee damage||

[alpine estuary]

true

[alpine estuary]

||i'm pretty sure you need susie up at the end of the fight, but you don't need kris up at the end||

[signal grail]

||you can win the fight with anyone||

||waiting for ralsei only knight 🙏||

[alpine estuary]

||don't you need susie to be up to deal the "final blow" after the fight though? or was my friend misinformed||

[signal grail]

misinfo

[alpine estuary]

spoilers for all chapters ||well kris is heavily implied to be working with the knight, so assumedly they don't want to hurt them too bad. but they don't want their teammates to get hurt and/or die either so they probably feel bad about them going down and possibly angry at the knight for hurting them||

[signal grail]

MISINPUT!!! MISINPUT!!! YOU CALM THE FUCK DOWN, IT WAS A MISINPUT!!!!! /ref

[alpine estuary]

rip

[hardy marsh]

Yuh

Prob due to that

[alpine estuary]

true

[hardy marsh]

||Hey i'm prob about to find out anyway but the stars at the side of each chapter represent both routes?
cause i have two for chapter 1-2 but just one from chapters 3 to 4||

[signal grail]

its save file completions

[hardy marsh]

What causes a save file to be more complete than the others

Ah

Yes i have 2 stars on chapter 3 now

||So it's for compleating both paths???
Is there going to be a third?
like a third star thing||

[signal grail]

no its just for seeing the credits on that save file

like

the star position corresponds to the save

[hardy marsh]

Ohhhhhh

What about the thing on the lower rightmost corner

Are those || The crystals you've collected?||

[signal grail]

yes

corresponds to save file as well

[weary granite]

The star represents each save completion

If you look at the bottom right of the chapter select, it actually shows you which one of your saves ||Got the shadow crystal for each chapter! It appears that each chapter has at least one and the top is the 1st save, middle is 2nd, and bottom is your 3rd save||

[dapper shoal]

||adding onto this Kris deals fucking absurd damage to Tenna (400 on a crit with saber10 dear god)||

[alpine estuary]

🥹

[dapper shoal]

||what is the lore reason for Kris wanting to beat the ever loving shit out of their CRT||

[alpine estuary]

true

[dapper shoal]

||Feeling betrayed perhaps? Or annoyance at Tenna interrupting the plan with the Knight?||

||also the detail of getting the crystal straight from the knight cus that fountain wasn't planned and the knight didn't have enough time to give it to anyone is nice||

||also note that black shard has a lightworld damage count of 16||

[woven tulip]

seen credits

[woven tulip]

||well, there probably will be just 5 crystals||

[weary granite]

We have no idea yet

[woven tulip]

||sword route||

it’s exclusive to it

but what about ||titan? even ralsei can deal 400+ damage|| ch4

[weary granite]

||Ralsei was not holding back lol

Same to the Gerson statue, did not hold back at all

Every other battle Ralsei did was him holding back to hopefully spare them, this one was different||

[woven tulip]

||susie and kris also deal over thousand damage ||

||is it titan that fragile, or they are actually that strong ?||

[dapper shoal]

||that's more so a "it is extremely weak now everyone deals big damage"||

[woven tulip]

||it also applies to normal state, only when it’s regenerating it’s low||

[dapper shoal]

|| 1. The titan had a giant shield that defended it and made you deal almost no damage
2. The titan is also a newborn and probably hasn't reached full size/power yet||

Why the fuck can you see the numbers through the spoiler?

[woven tulip]

[hasty sapphire]

I forgot, can you get the shadow crystal in ch2 snowgrave?

[dapper shoal]

You get both the crystal and puppet scarf

I believe

[woven tulip]

||also idk, is there any reason to think titans aren’t at full power? they supposedly appear during the roaring, they won’t like wait half a day before attacking||

[dapper shoal]

Technically spammy died

[dapper shoal]

||well Ralsei stated it's "hatching" and most things aren't fully ready immediately out of the egg||

[signal grail]

yes

[woven tulip]

well it was at the start

[hasty sapphire]

Do you just not have the second spamton fight then?

[signal grail]

||i assume the dark part of the titan is incredibly vulnerable and its only protection are the white parts||

||you fight spamton neo at the fountain||

[dapper shoal]

If you mean NEO it's at the end of the dark world

[hasty sapphire]

Huh weird

[woven tulip]

||which is interesting, the titan seems to have similar distortion to the knight when harmed; but unlike the titan, the knight is resistant to damage ||

[signal grail]

||the knight is wearing actual armor||

[dapper shoal]

||also the Knight understands mercy and the Titan does not||

[woven tulip]

it might be a red herring

[dapper shoal]

||pull off the armor and it turns out that's just how they look in the dark world||

[woven tulip]

||maybe the knight was bored and stole a helmet from a gerson statue ||

[alpine estuary]

||well there's a dialogue in the dark world that says "the knight takes off their helmet..." but you don't get to see what's inside. so the knight for sure is wearing a helmet, at least ||

[dapper shoal]

||the antlers were just cus they thought it looked cool||

[alpine estuary]

||"their" helmet, not someone else's. also i know you're joking i just choose to respond anyway :p||

[dapper shoal]

||also what are the gerson statues lightworld equivalent||

||action figures?||

[woven tulip]

||lord of the hammer books?||

idk

[woven tulip]

maybe

[dapper shoal]

Probably that

[woven tulip]

it was so cool ||when kris approached the bunker at night, the door opened, and the knight said "don’t forget, i’m the dessember"|| ch5 spoilers

[hasty sapphire]

||Every time I think of "don't forget Kris" from ch4 ending I picture Carol hiding under Asriel's bed and calling from there||

||She was there with us in the dark al allong||

[civic mason]

soiler chapter 2
do i need push this the whole way

[alpine estuary]

||the tv is a manifestation of the breaking of their household, i'm guessing. they used to watch tv and play games on the tv with toriel, asgore, asriel, and noelle's family. but now that asriels off to university, toriel and asgore are divorced, and dess going missing "broke" noelle's family... it's reasonable to assume that they want nothing to do with the tv anymore because it just brings them a reminder of what their life is now "missing"||

[hasty sapphire]

You don't need to but you can

[civic mason]

o ok
ty

[signal grail]

||apparently they only deal a shittillion damage if you do the sword route||

[alpine estuary]

||could be that kris is being reminded of what they felt like back then, now that more things that are out of their control are happening?||

||and more "breaking" of their world ||

||but more likely is that the player is influencing that somehow? or the game influenced it ||

||maybe the secret games "strength" crossed over when the pixel kris left the game or smth idk||

[woven tulip]

also it’s no fully accurate 💔

||kris does only half amount of damage to tenna, but triple only if the sword route was completed||

[alpine estuary]

lyn just said that /lh /nm

[woven tulip]

||maybe kris thinks nightmare is related to tenna||

or ||that tenna was hiding this game?||

[alpine estuary]

yeah idk

[cursive ravine]

No

[signal grail]

||i think it might be because tenna is indirectly divulging info about the weird route to the soul by using dragon blazers as a source||

[woven tulip]

||also the shadow mantle works on tenna, since the attacks are of the star element||

||also the only star attack of hammer of justice ||

[alpine estuary]

idk what that means

[civic mason]

noo i think i missed spamton fight

[signal grail]

||the game shows the weird route and kris doesnt like tenna for having that available||

[alpine estuary]

oh ic

possible, yah

[weary granite]

||Imo I think its just that Tenna forces Kris to remember the good times, which Kris doesnt like

Also him constantly mentioning the divorce and couples fighting, which to be fair Kris definitely would despise especially since the divorce seems rather recent and is still on their mind a lot||

||While the weird route causing Kris issues seems plausible, unless the player does the weird route, I dont think Kris would know much about it, it doesnt seem like readily available info unless Kris knew about the weird route ahead of time

Imo, Kris's constant resistance in weird route makes me feel like they didnt know anything about it beforehand and are in full panic mode ||

[alpine estuary]

true

||i agreed with that but that doesn't explain why it's only in the sword route that they do that much damage unfortunately. but i still don't get that ||

[weary granite]

Oh it was only in the weird route?

I didnt realize that D:

[alpine estuary]

||not quite actually, i said it wrong. it's the sword route, not the weird route||

||you can do the sword route in both normal and weird routes||

||for some reason i was associating the sword route with the weird route in my head when i wrote that||

edited

[cursive ravine]

Im going to explode

||I HATE THE KNIGHT😭 😭 😭 ||

||im still on them||

I hate them

I’m going to strangle Toby fox /j

||ON MY LAST ATTEMPT I DID IT||

||I LOCKED IN AND I WON||

||im literally awesome||

I’m so shakey

[weary granite]

Gotcha, but yeah makes sense