deltarune ch3-4 (soiler warning)

[signal grail]

||https://x.com/bjack2599514338/status/1932201366006497304||

[broken solstice]

just replaying through ch2, and apparently the name of the Dark World town depends on how you named yourself during the creation of the vessel

[weary granite]

I cant wait ||For the end of the weird route where Toby Fox personally comes to our house and uses a wiffle ball bat on our head||

[broken solstice]

how tf does Ralsei know about the name we gave to Gaster????

[weary granite]

Wait when does Ralsei mention it?

[broken solstice]

The ruddin in Castle Town says "welcome to (what you named yourself during vessel creation) town! Or at very least I heard its called that way"

[weary granite]

[broken solstice]

someone knows, and I'm 100% sure its Ralsei

[weary granite]

Probably the same reason Ralsei knows about the prophecies tbh

[broken solstice]

possibly yeah

its basically guaranteed that Ralsei somehow met Gaster or got the information via some other meta way, and they keep this hidden even after ch4

[clear sparrow]

honestly i think ralsei also plays some big role in whatever gaster is doing, same as the soul

[hasty sapphire]

I think people greatly overestimate the significance of Gaster for the main plot

[clear sparrow]

he's the one interested in dark fountains so we just assume he's the guy behind the knight and everything going on

[weary granite]

Ehhh, Gaster himself teased Deltarune since the Undertale days

His existence is important, we just dont know why at all yet...

[broken solstice]

Until we get to know another character working in the shadows, I think Gaster will stay the relevant guy that ties up the loose ends

[weary granite]

Im thinking maybe a flowey situation, where he has mentions since the beginning and middle of the game, but isnt very important until near the end

[hasty sapphire]

I think at most he's the narrator and the author of prophecy, not a story significant in-universe character

[weary granite]

Also Gaster is our only fan, I love him

[weary granite]

Maybe, but we really dont have much to go off of

[clear sparrow]

i mean

he's probably the one who 'made' the soul

[hasty sapphire]

Not a fan of how every loose end gets explained by Gaster, seems kinda lazy

[broken solstice]

||How would Ralsei get to know our name without them tho? And if Gaster isnt relevant, what about vessel creation, eggs, and dialogue where both Seam and Ralsei tell us about what is basically entry 17?||

[clear sparrow]

he invites the player into the game himself, and the soul acts as the tool to do that

[hasty sapphire]

Maybe that's also a part of the prophecy

But this explanation is just as lazy as Gaster

[weary granite]

Yeah but how does Ralsei even know about the prophecy?

[hasty sapphire]

No idea

[weary granite]

||Ralsei is almost always 2 steps ahead until right before he broke down||

[hasty sapphire]

Interesting thing is, Ralsei doesn't seem to know the prophecy that well

[clear sparrow]

||and the soul is apparently needed for whatever's the guy behind the whole plan is doing (somehow i doubt its knight, he seems more like a servant to me.)||

[broken solstice]

||Saying entry 17 is a part of prophency wouldnt make sense, as Gaster seems to record it as a discovery, and word-by-word, while also being there before Deltarunes prophency||

[hasty sapphire]

I mean castle town name, don't remember what entry 17 is about

[weary granite]

||My assumption is to make the soul or the fun gang stronger, they clearly dont want to start the Roaring, and each time the fun gang goes through an adventure they get stronger

Maybe they want to make the soul or the others strong for another task, idk yet||

[hasty sapphire]

||There was that line of dialogue from Noelle about young Kris pretending to rip their heart out, I wonder if this implies Kris had soul for longer than we're in control of it||

[broken solstice]

||Entry number 17
Dark
Darker
Yet Darker
The Darkness Keeps Growing
The Shadows Cutting Deeper
Photon Readings Negative
This Next Experiment Seems Very Very Interesting ...
What Do You Two Think||

[weary granite]

||The Photon readings negative was the one I keep thinking back too as I read what Gaster said

He word for word explained how the dark worlds worked before Deltarune came out :D||

[broken solstice]

||Seam (a very importmant character for secret boss stuff) mentions Dark, Darker, Yet Darker line, and Ralsei role drop in ch4 expains how you need negative light (photon readings negative) to produce Dark Fountains (the experiment)||

[weary granite]

Sean reiterates the Dark, Darker, Yet Darker line a few times

He also knows waayyyy tooo much

[clear sparrow]

||the soul is the only thing that can fight the titans/dark fountains, so the fact its apparently needed by the people who are making the fountains very interesting.||

[hasty sapphire]

Seam seems to know about as much as Ralsei

[clear sparrow]

||i think he used to have the shadow mantle||

||but it erm, flew away or something||

[weary granite]

||It would explain why he knows how valuable it is, but I still dont really see why he also would know||

[hasty sapphire]

Could just be prophecy, again

[broken solstice]

Yeah, but we can get more info from Ralsei. Someone who apparently knows about existence of the player, how camera works, the prophency, and the name of the player itself, and ||stuff that they hide for Kris' sake as mentioned in ch4||

[broken solstice]

For prophency to include player name, the Deltarune must be made AFTER vessel creation is done. Which is, like, possible, but would be ridicilous

[clear sparrow]

Seam used to work with Jevil or whatever, and Jevil also has a ton of knowledge from a certain someone

i think Seam knows stuff from Jevil perhaps

before he got jailed

[hasty sapphire]

||I mean, if the prophecy is accurate just like that why can't it predict player's name||

I have a bad feeling about Seam taking our shadow crystals

[weary granite]

||From what the game tells us about the prophecy, there are many points were it is super specific down to the dialogue, but a lot of the events themselves can be altered and changed, so maybe in face value each prophecy line says what is going to happen, but in reality there are so many avenues, paths, and outcomes from it that it is almost impossible to tell the specifics

Its exactly like the fate of two kings tale, where no matter what the kings will be killed by their son, but one where it is a mercy kill from a son who was loved, and the other was a takeover from the son who was hated, the tones and impact are wildly different but the outcome is the same||

[weary granite]

Eh, he Seams to be on our side

[signal grail]

||in the church someone also has a line about catti and kris "summoning a demon" as kids, that was probably when they were bound to the soul||

[clear sparrow]

||i thought that was more of a haha kris is silly thing but yeah possible i guess.. catti being sorta significant in the plot is so weird to me though.||

[signal grail]

||the kings cape in chapter 1 looks pretty similar to the shadow mantle so its not unlikely its swapped hands several times||

[weary granite]

||From how Noelle tells Kris how hes only been acting like this recently, I doubt Kris got the soul way back||

[broken solstice]

I dont think the prophency could just do that. It would mean that the prophency is different each time, since you can have 3 save files and as such 3 different prophencies.

[weary granite]

(This dialogue is only for weird route btw)

[hasty sapphire]

The existence of multiple save files apparently also have some lore significance so idk

[signal grail]

does anyone know if theres a no commentary longplay of the weird route

[broken solstice]

Also if Gaster made the propency AND survey program, that would be contradictory if they could both guess the name perfectly and also ask for it

So the solution is that the prophency simply doesnt include the name, or there is Gaster 2 that made the either (which is just weird)

[signal grail]

||the opposite is implied||

[signal grail]

||shes one of the few lightners with a talk sprite and the "talk sprite = major character" thing seems to hold up so far||

[hasty sapphire]

It's not exactly clear what time period "lately" and "long since" imply

But I feel like it's definitely more than 3 days

[clear sparrow]

||i ran into her only once and apparently she really doesnt want kris to be around Susie LOL||

[weary granite]

||I dont really see how its implied Kris had the soul for awhile here, the heart is very much an allegory for us and it just doesnt seem likely that Kris would have had it as a kid||

Also, ||Kris used the Piano a lot before we showed up, but once we did Kris stopped until he regained control back in CH4||

[clear sparrow]

||no? She's referring to Kris talking without the soul here.||

[broken solstice]

With how Gaster is shattered from time and space of his own world, I would assume they base the time off something else, likely our world.

[signal grail]

||the one time we know kris doesnt have the soul (meeting noelle after chapter 2 outside the bathroom) is when noelle says she hasnt heard kris' voice in so long||

[hasty sapphire]

||If Kris only got soul recently then where Carol's knowledge of the soul came from?||

[broken solstice]

||Soul is a part of the prophency||

[weary granite]

||Also yeah, this implies that Kris's talking pattern is far more distinct when talking without the soul rather than having it for awhile||

[weary granite]

||The prophecy I'd wager, since Ralsei also understands the significant of the soul sealing fountains||

[clear sparrow]

||She's part of the plan||

[weary granite]

||Noelle mentioned that Kris hasnt been acting normal in a few days, I think that considering that a long time would also be fair, since a friend acting very strange for days would be concerning||

[signal grail]

||catti and kris "summoning a demon" as kids, kris pretending to pull out their heart as a kid and noelle saying she hasnt heard kris voice in so long pretty heavily implies that kris' soul hasnt been their own since they were a kid even if we weren't always the single person in control of it||

||rudy also calls you the "creepy kid next door" in chapter 1 which could either be a result of creepy actions the soul makes or the inherently creepy nature of soulless kris||

[broken solstice]

In chapter 1 prison scene, Susie says that the voice of Kris itself and the voice of soul are different

[signal grail]

||the cage for the soul is also already set up before the player plays in chapter 1||

[weary granite]

||Kris has always been a gremlin, they constantly played pranks at Noelle and such, hell if you let the conversation with Noelle and Susie happen while Kris is stopping you from plucking the guitar, Noelle even mentions that "I never really considered them a friend back then, just played with my neighbor" and Kris pauses for a whole second after hearing it||

[hasty sapphire]

Doesn't Susie think she hears Kris's voice, basically the opposite

[weary granite]

Wait give me a second Lyn let me send something

[broken solstice]

oh wait right sorry I cant read I'm an undertale fan

[signal grail]

||this also implies the cage never had another purpose (kris would likely mention an old/dead pet if that were the case)||

[clear sparrow]

me walking my pet soul

||the soul being an actual physical thing is so fucking wild to me||

[signal grail]

me walking my pet soul

[signal grail]

its the same in undertale

[weary granite]

@signal grail ||Heres some more of the dialogue in chapter 4 talking about the Dark world in Chapter 2||

||The way Kris acts nowadays is very new to Noelle, and Susie only knows the Kris controlled by the heart, not the one Noelle does||

[clear sparrow]

||eldritch horror level stuff||

[prisma zealot]

me walking my ENEMY soul

[weary granite]

Let me send the full conversation video, its really good

Its a whole 10 fucking minute dialogue

[clear sparrow]

||well yeah but undertale doesnt have a segment where your soul crawls through a vent and pushes boxes around||

[weary granite]

||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giXa1LD7Vs0 ||

[clear sparrow]

||do you think the angel doll being the thing covering the soul has any symbolism||

[signal grail]

ive seen that conversation

[weary granite]

||Kris is very restrained in their movement due to the heart, but with recent chapters they are started to resist even more||

[weary granite]

Definitely

[clear sparrow]

||the way kris fucking LEAPS towards the soul next to the guitar||

||creature behaviour||

[weary granite]

The cast that knew him before the game starts knows how much of a gremlin he was back then LOL

They constantly talk about it

[broken solstice]

"Kris cant do anything without the soul" mfs when they realise Kris can just do anything while soul is in control anyways

like Kris casually opens a dark fountain without our input in ch2

[weary granite]

||Kris probably cringes when we used the Organ in CH4||

[signal grail]

that still implies the soul was around before chapter 1, you barely interact with her in chapter 1 so she would have no way to establish a pattern going into chapter 2

[weary granite]

There may be precedent that it was there before chapter 1, but I dont think it was there for a long time since no one else seems to have picked it up much before then

[signal grail]

they take the soul out first

but yeah kris does a lot of stuff without input in all chapters

[hasty sapphire]

The amount of shit Kris gets done during ch2 bathroom scene in snowgrave is insane

[weary granite]

Kris was on fucking overdrive after what happened in the Cyber World

I dont doubt it

[signal grail]

the real time is definitely shortened for gameplay purposes

susie and toriel almost bake an entire pie before kris is back

[clear sparrow]

you stare at an empty bathroom for 50 minutes

what does human parts mean in the cage prophecy

[signal grail]

theres plenty of evidence suggesting thats the case

[clear sparrow]

does that mean just human

[signal grail]

yeah

[clear sparrow]

i wonder if thats gonna matter at all

[hasty sapphire]

Could be vessel

[clear sparrow]

monsters and humans arent very different in deltarune after all

[hasty sapphire]

We still don't really know if it's normal for monsters to bleed

[weary granite]

What are they? I know about the cage in Kris's room but it could have been used for something else, hell for all we know Kris used it to practice removing the soul before properly obtaining it

[signal grail]

||the fact it says "with humansoul" likely means that the soul isnt a third party itself, its just being controlled by a third party||

[clear sparrow]

would be funny

[signal grail]

#1379482184980758598 message

[clear sparrow]

theres a blood stain next to the cage too

[signal grail]

that one person that asks what its like to be made of blood is fucked up

[hasty sapphire]

||Imagine if cage with human parts somehow ends up being Susie||

[clear sparrow]

you can clean it with Susie

[weary granite]

Eh, Kris and Catty doing a one of dialogue isnt really much evidence imo, and Kris being a rogue kid is something that is part of his personality

[signal grail]

it cant be one off

[clear sparrow]

catty fucking hates susie

therefore catty is evil automatically

/silly

[signal grail]

||with the existing religious undertones and the way you absolutely annihilate noelle who has angelic theming means that the demon summoning is 100% significant||

[signal grail]

||also this is probably the "piece of the soul" people theorise you put into noelle||

[hasty sapphire]

||I was rereading Ralsei's last ch4 dialogue and the way he's talking about Susie being kind makes me feel like she's supposed to end up being evil||

[signal grail]

let me see if i can actually find this dialogue

[clear sparrow]

||theres an unused item called sky mantle which has elec/holy resistance, wonder what that will be usedd for...||

[hasty sapphire]

||If that's the case then Susie's "we're not gonna let it happen" starts making more sense since I don't think the final tragedy is someone dying||

[weary granite]

||I know but there isnt really much else to go off of? We get a lot of evidence that the way Kris is acting now is different to how Kris usually acts, I dont really know what else we can go off of for the Soul to have already been with him before chapter 1, especially with the player very much acting differently to Kris and also Kris having different skills they learned throughout their life

Kris knowing and really enjoying the Piano, having to correct the Soul when picking out Kris's favorite food and their brother's favorite character to play. It just seems that this soul is not something Kris originally had||

[clear sparrow]

||i actually figured out asriel's favourite character by watching ralsei lol||

[signal grail]

||isnt it ralsei who corrects you||

||i just remembered it from the chapter 1 dialogue 😭||

[clear sparrow]

||i dunno if he corrects it but he hovers over the correct answer in the quiz||

[weary granite]

||Kris coughs and moves it to the correct answer for the pie, I remember now that Ralsei does choose the favorite character for Asriel though||

[hasty sapphire]

||Isn't the correct answer first one, you're on it by default||

[signal grail]

||kris is able to do these things while the soul is still inside them, the whole piano sequence is done without the player and kris actively stops you from playing the song correctly (the last note will always be wrong even if you follow the sheet music to a tee)||

[clear sparrow]

||i love the organ easter eggs||

||plays megalovania||

[karmic elm]

omg its the thing we saw :3

[weary granite]

||Yeah but if Kris had this variant of the soul, heart, whatever the fuck it is at this point, I dont really see how it would be the same as it is now. Kris is a person that experienced things normally before we came along, this new way of acting and resisting is new in the story as expressed by the characters. The characters that knew Kris commenting on how he is constantly struggling to say what they really want and imo shows that, at least with this "soul" being controlled by us, that Kris's actions are not the same as before chapter 1||

[weary granite]

||Immediately dies to vehicular manslaughter||

[wild ice]

True

[weary granite]

||Oh did yall get the 1225 easter egg btw?||

[hasty sapphire]

||The whole severed hand thing has to have some plot significance||

[karmic elm]

||kris loses their hand after acting and pointing too much||

||my headcanon is someone snaps during a weird route and takes out the very hand they use||

or: /silly

[hasty sapphire]

||You looked through the glass.
For some strange reason, for just a brief moment...
You thought you saw through your hand.||

Ch1 spoilers

[blissful ivy]

hello

[broken solstice]

howdy

[blissful ivy]

are you talking about ||kris losing their hand||

[karmic elm]

well they havent done that yet so no

just speculating on what it means

[blissful ivy]

interestnig

[karmic elm]

this is distracting me from my last hour at work so i cant complain

ch3 banger

[signal grail]

||i dont see the point in adding these parts of dialogue if its not to imply kris' soul is controlled by another entity and theyve wanted to be rid of it for a very long time, especially the demon (soul) corrupting noelle (angel) theme you can pull during the weird route||

[karmic elm]

holy wall

[weary granite]

Once you find the easter egg ||Kris finds and object and briefly loses their hand :D||, ||It being a small, dark, triangular object, with the inside being made out of lacquer (or a substitute) implies it being a guitar pick :D, makes sense after CH4||

[karmic elm]

we've got a yapper

[signal grail]

grass sword

[karmic elm]

youre a sword

[karmic elm]

||its not a guitar pick but i can see why people think that||

[weary granite]

||What else would it be?||

[signal grail]

girl dinner

[karmic elm]

||literally just a shadow crystal, tying dess to knight further||

[weary granite]

||I can also see it being the dark shard||

[weary granite]

||It probably would have been mentioned, the shadow crystal can show you what the real world looks like in the dark world, but this is described differently||

[karmic elm]

it really isnt

[weary granite]

||And considering it goes through our hand, and we cant see the hand, ties it into the Roaring Knight, who has hands similar to Gaster's||

[karmic elm]

also no reason to add the hand part if it isnt

thats what i just said lmao

[weary granite]

||It being a shadow crystal doesnt make much sense though? The only ones we know who supply them are the Roaring knight, who has it on them during the fight||

[clear sparrow]

eats moss

[clear sparrow]

thats what it means

[karmic elm]

thats

[weary granite]

I ate moss

[karmic elm]

thats the literal point

its supposed to tie back to it

[blissful ivy]

no more ||cold place||

[signal grail]

Dark World?

[karmic elm]

||1225 = christmas = december holiday = dess + crystal = knight = dess is knight||

[clear sparrow]

Dark World?

[blissful ivy]

when i enter it's still the ||cold place||

[clear sparrow]

||anyone curious about what the flip is up about the place TV world is built in, even Ralsei says it's weird||

[signal grail]

is your save corrupted

[weary granite]

||Yeah, but it also representing a guitar pick would also make sense, it ties back with Dess and she is a prime candidate for being the Roaring knight, it being symbolic would fit and the inside being hard and fits the shape of it being a pick||

[hasty sapphire]

||What even are black shards||
||How did Asgore get one? Did he manage to kick knight's ass?||

[signal grail]

wdym

[weary granite]

I get that, but I dont really think its a shadow crystal, just something that Dess owns

[blissful ivy]

no? i think

[karmic elm]

please read my messages man same conclusion

holy ragebait

[blissful ivy]

theres no ||shadowcrystals||

[clear sparrow]

||the snow desert||

[karmic elm]

#deltatune-bait

[weary granite]

? I know Im just saying I dont think its an exact shadow crystal, I wasnt really talking about it being Dess or whatnot

[signal grail]

||as far as we know, theyre just fragments of the knight||

[weary granite]

I know its probably ||Dess or Carol, with me personally leaning toward it being Dess, I just think the significance of the item should be talked about||

[karmic elm]

/genq

||how do you explain the hand||

[hasty sapphire]

||What are shadow crystals then||

[clear sparrow]

||foreshadowing ||

[karmic elm]

WHICH IS WHAT CRYSTALS DO

oml 😭 im going back to work

[hasty sapphire]

||I thoguht shadow crystals are also a part of the knight that drops in the world upon fountain creation, explains why there wasn't one in ch3 world||

[karmic elm]

/neutral tone

[signal grail]

||i dont think they have any real explanation, i think theyre broken parts of a prophecy though which gives them the future/reality telling ability||

[karmic elm]

🔥 ✍️

finally some good fucking food

[signal grail]

||you can look at prophecies through the shadow crystal and the prophecy stays exactly the same||

[karmic elm]

im looking at you and it says ure gay

[weary granite]

||It is very similar to the Roaring knight, with the room itself being symbolic of Dess's transformation||

[signal grail]

🪞

[clear sparrow]

WHATY

[weary granite]

||Yeah, the Knight gives out the shadow crystals to all the weirdos who keeps shouting freedom, didnt get to CH3 fountain in time to give it to Romb ||

[karmic elm]

its the truth

[weary granite]

||Also another important distinction, the shadow crystals have the texture and feel of glass, this item is pointed out to be a different material, it probably does have a similar property to the crystal but it is different, considering both lets you see through your own hand||

[hasty sapphire]

||I was thinking more like a shard of the blade falling into the world when knight stabs the ground, not a conscious act of giving the crystal to specific someone
Though Gerson's comment on shadow crystal seems to imply otherwise||

[weary granite]

||Lacquer itself is a hard coating that adds a bit of shine to objects, the fact that the thing is made out of it or something similar is inchresting||

[signal grail]

||if black shards and shadow crystals come from the same thing idk why they would have distinct item descriptions and abilities||

[hasty sapphire]

Yeah that's the confusing part

[signal grail]

i dont think that theory really holds up for that reason

[hasty sapphire]

I think they are of a similar nature

[signal grail]

shadow crystals are also glass in the light world while ||the black shard is identical in both||

[weary granite]

||They both are different in terms of uses, my assumption is that the Shadow crystal dropped after Susie chipped off part of the weapon||

[signal grail]

||that would assume the knights armor or sword is made of glass||

[weary granite]

||I mean like, the Knight dropped it from their hand or wherever they stored it, and the weapon chipping is a different thing||

[signal grail]

makes more sense

[weary granite]

||Though imagining Dess in a full armor of glass is kinda funny lol||

[hasty sapphire]

||Light world Dess is a body preserved in a glass coffin||

[weary granite]

||Bro that Coffins got hands if it was able to carry fuckin Undyne||

[signal grail]

😭😭

[blissful ivy]

what if this is because i ||put 1225 points in the b rank room thing||

[signal grail]

||i think the black shard being the same in both worlds is also conveying that the knights appearance is the same in both worlds||

[blissful ivy]

probably not

[weary granite]

||True, but its does feel kinda weird thinking about the Roaring Knight full sprite and all being in the real world, but I dont really see how it would be wrong||

[signal grail]

||theres also dialogue that confirms the knight is wearing a removable helmet, so the shapeshifting is probably an armor ability||

[hasty sapphire]

||I'm not sure how literally that dialogue should be taken, could be just that Kris knows the identity of the knight||

[signal grail]

100%

[weary granite]

||Maybe its a katana situation, where the weapon the Knight is holding is pure black, and you chipped off part of it, I can definitely see it being important after seeing the leaked room where Asgore was||

[signal grail]

||kris knows who the knight is and is trying to suppress the memory from us||

[weary granite]

||Who do yall think is talking to us on the phone btw?||

||I think its Carol but the weird route shows that no matter what Carol would have showed up (There was no phone call)|| (Weird route)

[hasty sapphire]

||I want to say Carol but there's a bit of inconsistency in how we perceive their voice||

[weary granite]

||Also Carol talks normally in the ch4 ending of weird route|| (weird route)

[signal grail]

||it probably just is the knight considering the pure black text box||

[modern galleon]

||the calls could just be from both Carol and the knight||

[hasty sapphire]

||Weird route dialogue being clear makes sense since Kris hold the phone close while in the kitchen and normal ch4 end dialogues the phone is away||

[prisma zealot]

uhhh i think i broke the game LMAO (ch 4)

[signal grail]

💀

[hasty sapphire]

||But then there's Kris warning them about the guitar dialogue where they're also holding the phone close so it should be heard clearly||

[weary granite]

||Maybe, but its still really hard to tell||

[weary granite]

Kris, where the FUCK are we?!?!

[prisma zealot]

hell

[modern galleon]

||If Dess is truly the knight then it could just be that her voice is somewhat similar to her mother’s and the audio quality from Kris’s phone isn’t so crisp, so calls from both of them sound similar||

[prisma zealot]

20 MY ASS I TOOK LIKE 2000 (ch4)

[hasty sapphire]

||Doesn't match up with "I'll be right there" and Carol coming back home, unless we believe in Carol knight ||

[clear sparrow]

||the voice says it's coming so uh its weird.||

[prisma zealot]

that sure as hell is a difference in health huh

ch 4

[signal grail]

||she comes home in the weird route where she isnt called, its possible "ill be right there" is in reference to being at the church instead to protect the fountain||

[weary granite]

||Maybe Carol is just homophobic
(/silly)||

[signal grail]

||im not a carol knight believer though||

[hasty sapphire]

||Possible, but then how are Susie getting the guitar and opening church fountain related?||

[weary granite]

||Imo there is wayyy too much evidence for it being Dess lol

There is a fun one, where the Tenna flashback shows Dess has Rudy's antlers, so maybe her dark world variation has Carol's since she is more like her mother?||

[signal grail]

yes

[weary granite]

||A distraction most likely, Susie would have 100% just snuck back into Dess's room to get it if there was no church fountain||

||But because of the church, they have to do it tommorow, giving the Knight more time||

[hasty sapphire]

||Not knowing why the knight opens all these fountains to begin with sure is fun||

[weary granite]

||The fun gang is getting stronger, maybe the Knight's current goal is for them to prepare? I dont see why else they want the chase to continue, if they wanted it the fun gang to stop....well all it takes is two attacks||

[hasty sapphire]

||Prepare for what though? All the trouble the prophecy predicts seems to come from the knight, I doubt they're deciding to just act it out because prophecy said so, that just doesn't sound like an interesting plot||

[weary granite]

||It might be related to what happened to Dess, well see what Asgore has to say in ch5||

[hasty sapphire]

||I think only the fun gang acts according to the prophecy, Asgore/Carol/Kris and knight each act out of their personal motivations||

No real evidence of that, I just think it'd make a more fun story

[weary granite]

Jockington plays a significant part in the prophecy

[hasty sapphire]

True

[somber skiff]

||Hey Tenna, what's the 20th letter of the alphabet||

[finite phoenix]

||television static is sometimes also referred to as TV snow||

[meager hatch]

#offtopic-art-gallery★ message
Drops this here and runs off, thank you cheesesticke for the art

[prisma zealot]

joated (ch 3)

[woven tulip]

||toby fox is december holiday ||

remember how there was annoying dog in the computer lab right before the cyber world fountain was open

[signal grail]

ATE MOSS!

[prisma zealot]

true!

[woven tulip]

darkners know about keyboard / controller buttons for some reason

[woven tulip]

gaster saying ||"my deltarune" ||

[weary granite]

HELL YEAH!

[woven tulip]

||that it’s "waiting" is interesting, a similar phrasing was in the ch 3-4 trailer, and by egg man in ch3||

[prisma zealot]

kid named

[weary granite]

Kids are named? Thats what babys are for smh

[prisma zealot]

no babies are for throwing (/j dont do that)

[woven tulip]

entry 17 though

[prisma zealot]

entry number 17?!

[broken solstice]

Cant wait for chapter 7 where the egg requires 55 cheat code inputs in succession to access, and as a result we learn that egg man is not gaster and it has zero lore relevance

[woven tulip]

ch3*

[weary granite]

I just realized

||Dont forget's only instrument is the piano ||

[woven tulip]

||seam literally says they had it||

[weary granite]

||Yeah but how'd he lose it||?

[clear sparrow]

||it ran away||

[weary granite]

Makes sense

[woven tulip]

seam won’t just fight us in a town full of our allies

[woven tulip]

yeah, but also ||spamton, tenna, gerson, egg man|| don’t have it ||(tenna has in battles, but not in normal dialogues otherwise)||.

[signal grail]

probably bc theyre all darkners

[woven tulip]

why they use yellow text so much

[woven tulip]

no? other important darkeners have portraits

[signal grail]

the talk portrait theory is for light world characters bc anyone in the dark world is already inherently relevant

[woven tulip]

||ironic how NONE of church dark world creatures are HOLY||

[woven tulip]

goulden sam is the next secret boss

||this is the cage from the prophecy after absorbing your soul ||

[woven tulip]

blade of grass

[woven tulip]

what is it?

[blissful ivy]

wdym what is it

[woven tulip]

yeah, if it was a shadow crystal, why other shadow crystals don’t disappear

[woven tulip]

||what about gerson though||

[woven tulip]

||in chapter 5 we gonna fight the knight during the festival with undertale battle ui ||

[weary granite]

||Freedom from fate, Gerson's main teaching to Susie is to not follow the prophecy to the tea, to look at the words between words||

[prisma zealot]

Im sorry. Im sorry about the pipes

I KNOW I shouldnt have done it

But every pipe has to go SOMEWHERE

[prisma zealot]

erm actually its ramb not romb

[blissful ivy]

spoilers for the beginining of ch4

[prisma zealot]

did anyone notice these little dudes look like slugcats? (ch 3)

||the parachute goobers||

[heady fossil]

WAIT

I see it

[prisma zealot]

i just found a secret i havent seen anyone talk about

this is in the game

[blissful ivy]

i love deltarune

i still love deltarune

[weary granite]

Hold on a secontheth

[weary granite]

I think thats just how Temmie draws their rabbits

[prisma zealot]

no way

[somber skiff]

LMAO

[signal grail]

that bit was so good

[blissful ivy]

hes just standing there like this

[somber skiff]

i love this yt comment about the four final bosses

[weary granite]

Genuinely one of the best ones

[blissful ivy]

:3

[somber skiff]

owo

[blissful ivy]

DID

DID HE JUST

DID HE JUST SAY ||UWU||

WHAT

WHAT

WHAT

[somber skiff]

lmao

[opal grotto]

[heady fossil]

[weary granite]

Susie taught em that

[somber skiff]

||best part is "I shouldn't've taught him that" - Susie||

[weary granite]

OH SHIT, GUYS, I JUST FOUND OUT ||WHAT THE KNIGHT LOOKS LIKE!!||

[blissful ivy]

||why did she teach him that...||

[somber skiff]

LMAO

[blissful ivy]

whar

[weary granite]

Its Susie what'd ya expect lol

[weary granite]

Funny meme

Or maybe it isnt? (Nah its just a shitpost lol)

[somber skiff]

Noelle.

[weary granite]

||Proceed||

[weary granite]

LOL

Also spoiler it smh smh

[somber skiff]

real (I did tho????)

[weary granite]

This one?

Oh wait might be a phone issue

[somber skiff]

i.. did...

💀

[weary granite]

Yeah phone fixed itself

Im doubling down and pretending it isnt spoiled, your going to the damn slammer!

[somber skiff]

damn

nooooo

[weary granite]

(Oh gods I found this on Reddit)

Gaster having a cheeseborger

[somber skiff]

LMAO

i love reddit after finishing ch4

[opal grotto]

||When the guy in the game says the name of the game its like "Wow, thats the name of the game!!"||

[signal grail]

MY DELTARUNE.

[somber skiff]

lmao

[signal grail]

||the game is named after the prophecy thats central to everything so yeah||

[opal grotto]

:p

[prisma zealot]

[weary granite]

||Gaster plotting nefariously for our birthday party||

[somber skiff]

poor guy

[weary granite]

||I think the commununity did find it? I heard from people that its in reverse in the fight (cant confirm, at work atm)||

[somber skiff]

damn

weird message but ok

me when the game dropped lmao

[weary granite]

I had to boot up the demo to find mine

[clear sparrow]

so real

[signal grail]

||realising that the backstage game is dragon blazers 🤯||

[clear sparrow]

||why is snowgrave in the prophecy ||

[gritty goblet]

i love the soundtrack tbh

[somber skiff]

no way

[somber skiff]

im trying to make a playlist of all the deltarune chapter songs i like

ended up adding every song in the game

[gritty goblet]

ive just got uhhh

Need a Hand!? thirteen times in a row

[signal grail]

shrug.... ||in the hospital scene we do know that the "evil route" for dragon blazers is secret and susie accidentally got it by killing everything||

||so the shadow mantle entity is probably manipulating the game to be forced on that route||

[weary granite]

||Snowgrave and normal are both technically in the prophecy

Both are right||

[weary granite]

||Imo, this is when a normal player is meant to figure out about the snowgrave route, we found it through brute force but naturally a new player wouldnt know

The hooded figure telling us in interesting...I wonder what connection it has to the heart||

[signal grail]

yeah it definitely is

[somber skiff]

yknow what would be cool

||if toby didn't add snowgrave when ch2 came out||

||and added it alongside ch3 and ch4||

[clear sparrow]

actually a part of me was expecting toby to add some secrets to c1 and c2

[somber skiff]

yea

or maybe he has

[clear sparrow]

but from what ive seen theres nothing new

[somber skiff]

and nobody found it yet

[clear sparrow]

so far

[hardy marsh]

||It's kinda interesting how killing the Titan spawns aborts the pacifist route, what's the difference between that and banishing them||

ch4

[clear sparrow]

||wait what...||

[somber skiff]

huh

[clear sparrow]

||i really hope thats unintended.||

[opal grotto]

||Killing and banishing/"purifying" are different, itll prolly be revealed later or smth||

[somber skiff]

damn

[woven tulip]

tbh i didn’t really understand what it’s about

[clear sparrow]

||i think making killingg titan spawn abort the route is evil considering the game doesnt even tell or hint towards that at all., you cant even spare them.||

[clear sparrow]

||imagine if beating an enemy in c1 aborted the 'pacifist' route and ralsei didnt even tell you to spare anyone.||

[woven tulip]

what is it

is it real?

bait is believable

[somber skiff]

yes that is indeed what happens roulx kaard actually dunks on ||the titan|| killing it instantly

[clear sparrow]

||i hope the titan had more attacks not gonna lie||

[somber skiff]

same

[clear sparrow]

||it shoots laser beams at you when it first starts hatching and never does that again||

[opal grotto]

||It was technically a baby titan. Imagine an older titan fight ||

[clear sparrow]

||what if you made a dark fountain inside a titan ||

[somber skiff]

3 coughing baby vs 1 hydrogen bomb

[heady fossil]

||that would be terrifying||

[somber skiff]

||titan in titan ||

||metatitan||

[opal grotto]

||Titanception||

[somber skiff]

||titan squared||

[woven tulip]

that’s not what the title says though

[final rivet]

||it would be so cool if it reasonably creates like a fused titan or something tho, like a two-headed titan||

[somber skiff]

||titan 2 appeared||

[weary granite]

Its a shitpost

[woven tulip]

||what if weird route changes nothing in the story and you just tortured kris’ friends for no reason ||

[somber skiff]

||titan 2 fell over cuz of too many legs||

[final rivet]

||three headed elder titan battle in chapter 74 when||

[somber skiff]

||titan 2 died||

||you won, you gained 0 exp and 2999 gold||

that's how ch7 gon be like

[final rivet]

fr

||there’s new sans dialogue after that and he says “wow, i sure hope that guy didn’t give you a bad time”||

[weary granite]

This is going to be chapter 5 (Ch4 soilers)

[final rivet]

||this is canon trust me bro||

[woven tulip]

how so? there is no pacifist route. they aren’t recruits so it doesn’t matter

[clear sparrow]

||this is real||

[somber skiff]

||wow you're friend here looks like she's fast and can freeze her enemys||

[woven tulip]

it literally extremely clearly tells you

[weary granite]

||We attempt to spare Sans....

Kris refused||

[clear sparrow]

||im not sure how to feel about gerson dialogue probably implying asgore is jealous because of sans and toriel hanging out togethe r is the entirety of chapter 5 really going to be about THAT ||

[hardy marsh]

||It gives you the you grew stronger message tho||

[somber skiff]

||flower garden dark world||

[clear sparrow]

||could be something else but i dont see how else jealousy would play a role in the asgore chapter||

[weary granite]

Its probably an aspect but not the whole thing

[hardy marsh]

Yeah lol xc

[final rivet]

||”that Dealmaker guy, I remember him. Sent me a ton of spam.”||

[woven tulip]

||they wouldn’t never be old, they also would spawn during the roaring, not waiting somewhere for whatever time||

[weary granite]

||Tbh, Asgore js trying to bring the family whole, if he found out Sans was part of it, he'd be furious||

[hardy marsh]

||Asgore should maybe
leave Toriel alone :)||

[clear sparrow]

||yeah b ut i just dont like plotlines like this idk||

[somber skiff]

lmao

[hardy marsh]

||Do you guys think the 7 flowers will fall in the dark world too?
What i mean is will we get a flowey, maybe 6 other talking flowers too||

[woven tulip]

tbf you shouldn’t fight them ||they have like 3000 hp or something||

[hardy marsh]

Yeah but

||If you beat the knight and got the black shard sword thing from it, you can kill them in two hits||

[somber skiff]

yooo new ch5 characters ||flowey, flowez, flowea, floweb, flowec and bob||

[hardy marsh]

Nice

[weary granite]

||Its a very real plot and is going to be uncomfortable, I do think Toby will lighten it a bit but I still see it being a possible plotline

I understand tho, these things are tough ||

[hardy marsh]

||With this killing them is super easy and it might make players try and kill them as their first strat||

[opal grotto]

||But also. You have to successfully fight the Knight for that. And thats kinda hard to do||

[signal grail]

||i think its impossible to kill darkness without the black shard?||

[weary granite]

Its hard but yeah

[hardy marsh]

||Only thing i don't like is how clingy Asgore is, even Tho Toriel keeps shuting him down he keeps bothering her every chance he gets||

[woven tulip]

why would you think to fight them if you are playing as pacifist though

[signal grail]

part of me thinks yes but the other part thinks the dark world is going to be in the boarded up room at the back so it wont reach the flowers

[hardy marsh]

It is, just takes a loooong time

[signal grail]

i see

lol

[weary granite]

||Unfortunately I've seen real life examples of it, so I find it a lot more believable||

[hardy marsh]

||That room is probably an atrium for flowers or something||

U know those glass houses

[weary granite]

||It makes sense tho, Asgore was very much in love and is still in severe denial

Have you see Asgore's dialogue in ch4?||

[signal grail]

||i think its weird but it also sounds like he was divorced over false pretenses. i think his clingy behaviour is weird but i hope it gets justified in some way in the next chapter rather than painting him as a complete weirdo||

[weary granite]

@hardy marsh

[hardy marsh]

||Cause the game states the Titans and maybe those spawns are mindless manifestations of darkness that only live to destroy, killing them would be my first thought, only reason i did not at first was cause i didn't have the sword and i just decided to go with banishing them||

[woven tulip]

||what if it’s two worlds again ||

[hardy marsh]

Yeah

||The secret one in Carols room?||

[woven tulip]

idk i’m always checking ACTs and there is ||banish||

[hardy marsh]

||That is fair yuh, sounds like something happend prob the Dess thing and he lost everything due to a misunderstanding||

[woven tulip]

which is similar to ||jackenstein||

[hardy marsh]

:v

||I did know of banishing, but my first thought when i see something evil that's beyond redemption is killing that thing without thinking that's morally wrong||

[woven tulip]

||by this logic, why wouldn’t you fight watercoolers though ||

[somber skiff]

||how long did you notice||

||or did you take too long||

[opal grotto]

||Idk, Im a certified pacifister and killing is a later option for me if nothing else works lmao||

[somber skiff]

yea lol

[clear sparrow]

||the reason i got black shard is so i could fight titan spawns and other shadow related things in the future, but if its going to abort the pacifist route then thats kinda lame.||

[somber skiff]

||i attack when there's a cross on the spare thingy next to the enemy||

[woven tulip]

||like, i checked if you could ACT with the knight at first ||

[somber skiff]

||titan has one but the spawns are "???"||

[weary granite]

Yeah, its a bit sad

[somber skiff]

ngl i didn't :|

[hardy marsh]

||wonder if later on sparing them will be an option||

[hardy marsh]

Yuh same

[signal grail]

how does it abort pacifist

[woven tulip]

wait what does mercy meter says during the encounter

[clear sparrow]

||i dont know someone brought it up here i guess its a thing in the code or whatevr.||

[somber skiff]

||recruit the knight to castletown||

[somber skiff]

||"???"||

[hardy marsh]

Lmao

[signal grail]

how does it abort pacifist

[somber skiff]

wait nvm

[woven tulip]

i think only when it’s X is when you definitely can fight

[somber skiff]

||it says cross||

[woven tulip]

[somber skiff]

its an X

i just checked

[hasty sapphire]

How did we not recruit the annoying dog yet

[hardy marsh]

||You get the You grew stronger message and it stops the "you are nice to eveyone" route||

[somber skiff]

ch7 secret boss

[woven tulip]

||but tbh, i just figured out they can be defeated with light like other darkness encounters ||

[somber skiff]

maybe toby coded it wrong lol

[woven tulip]

that’s what the say in don’t forget!

[hardy marsh]

Out of curiosity, why the condescending remarks?

[opal grotto]

Out of everything I think this is the thing Toby specificlaly wouldnt want to be coded wrong lmao

[signal grail]

but what does that actually manifest as

[opal grotto]

Considering how big and important it is

[weary granite]

Not the first time lol

[somber skiff]

lol

[woven tulip]

it’s neutral, i didn’t put any emotions into this message

[hardy marsh]

||Unsure, it does do something do||

[woven tulip]

it’s a lightner 💔

[weary granite]

When does this happen? (At work, cant check full context)

[somber skiff]

or maybe if its smth to do with later chapters

[hardy marsh]

||If you kill the titan Spawns||

||You get the same you grew stronger message You get when you make Noelle freeze enemies||

[opal grotto]

I wouldnt be surprised if it gets revealed in Ch5 considering all 3 were originally supposed to eb released together

[somber skiff]

yea

[woven tulip]

it’s unknown? there is no immediate consequences

[weary granite]

||Ooohhh yeah, I didnt kill em either, my assumption, those are darkners who became corrupted or somethin cause killin em seems really bad, also the fact that you can banish them means you can be "peaceful"||

Any way for pacifist I'll try to find before being a ruthless killer

Smh smh (/silly)

[woven tulip]

when you defeat enemies with violence

[hasty sapphire]

||Doesn't killing spawn cancel Ralsei's last dialiogue about playing the piano?||

[woven tulip]

since chapter 2

[hardy marsh]

||Interesting assumption, banishing them does give you the "purified" text||

[signal grail]

||the darkness is literally just darkness, like everything else in a dark world it gets so dark a lightner can mistake the dark itself as a threat||

[woven tulip]

||titan spawns can be actually killed unlike normal darkners||

[hardy marsh]

||When you try to spare the titan it says something like "But it's not something that could understand mercy" why would killing the titan spawns be bad, it's implied they spawn from the titan||

[woven tulip]

also what does ||???|| refer to?

[weary granite]

||As Juggler said before, they can still be purified, so hey I'll take any chance to be pacifist

Also, Im gonna ignore that we turn some of them into sweet sweet tp, I rescued the important ones smh||

[signal grail]

||during the bell chase sequence at the start of the chapter what youre chased by is the darkness (you can partially see its silouette), they arent strictly spawned from the titan||

[hasty sapphire]

||Maybe killing titanspawn isn't exactly bad but the kind of power you get from it can eventually turn you into something similar to the knight||

[woven tulip]

...which is a later encounter? so you wouldn’t know it

[somber skiff]

||sanctuary 2 gerson statue||

[signal grail]

||the titan is just an overwhelming darkness and therefore the darkness enemy comes with it||

[hardy marsh]

||So those things just manifest from pure darkness basically?||

[signal grail]

||it seems that way to me||

[weary granite]

||Even then, a Titan is a different manifestation, the darkness blobs very much seem to be a darkner type entity or corruption||

[hardy marsh]

||hmmmm maybe, do you guys think that killing a titan would also be bad ?||

[woven tulip]

i mean in ||"Darkness constricts you... TP Gain reduced outside of ???"||

[somber skiff]

ah

||purifying the titanspawns i think||

[hardy marsh]

||Like actually killing one, not sealing them||

[signal grail]

no

[woven tulip]

||we can’t kill the titan, it heals too fast||

so it probably doesn’t really matter

[hardy marsh]

||Not in Gameplay lol i mean maybe later on if we have the chance, maybe with a powerful enough weapon||

[signal grail]

||if you were killing a titan that would transfer to like... poking at a shadow in the light world. there isnt really a reason for it to have a light world consequence unlike ie tenna being slashed by the knight for example||

[woven tulip]

||it still seems to be "alive" though, just not conscious||

[hardy marsh]

Yeah

[signal grail]

||its just an illusion as ralsei states in chapter 3||

[woven tulip]

||the titans appear in the light world during the roaring, they probably aren’t just shadows||

[weary granite]

A necessary action imo

[signal grail]

||thats when the darkness takes over the entire light world||

[weary granite]

||If we can spare them, I will||

[hardy marsh]

Well it's alive in the same sense that a virus moves and kills cells to multiple, yet a virus is not considered alive

oh oops
Well it's fine without it's without context

[woven tulip]

y’know that it’s an extremely controversial question

[hardy marsh]

Is It?

[woven tulip]

YES

[hardy marsh]

Is people fighting for the rights of viruses?

[woven tulip]

whether vira alive isn’t a straight forward question

...but it doesn’t matter what is alive anyway

doesn’t change how we would study them

[somber skiff]

#viruslifematter or smth idk

[weary granite]

Viruses arent alive, its not that controversial

Most viruses arent alive

[hardy marsh]

But viruses are the only entities that don't follow the basics for being considered alive

[weary granite]

Now, super viruses (which are real)? Maaayyyybe since they act differently

[hardy marsh]

Lmao

[somber skiff]

what about virovirokun huh

that's def alive

and needs tender loving care

[woven tulip]

i just think "alive" is an arbitrary thing anyway , a concept

[hardy marsh]

||Basically what i'm saying is, Titans are not alive it seens, they destroy and that's their only drive||

[weary granite]

Nerds wanting the right category for it, most aglee its not alive but some dont buy it

[signal grail]

||titans are absolutely metaphysical, ralsei just describes it as "the fear of the dark"||

[weary granite]

||Yeah, I think killing them doesnt have much moral consequence||

[woven tulip]

but why would you?

[weary granite]

Cause I want them gone

[woven tulip]

||sealing them is more effective||

||personally, i don’t think of moral consequences before deciding whether i should fight them or not, i will still try to be a pacifist as long as it’s possible ||

[weary granite]

Effective schmective, if they arent dead they can cause problems

[weary granite]

Fair enough

[opal grotto]

||Flowey be like "what happens if you come across a relentless killer"||

[signal grail]

if its presented as an option why not

[woven tulip]

||...that’s literally flowey ||

[weary granite]

||You defend yourself....or yoh run away as faat as possible||

[woven tulip]

it’s always an option, there is no consequences of fighting except small differences in cutscenes

[signal grail]

its not an option right now

[woven tulip]

that’s what was stated in the cheatsheet, some enemies can’t be defeated violently, some can’t be defeated peacefully

i’m, saying, why would you play pacifist in the first place, if there is an option for fighting in the most encounters?

i mean whatever, it’s your playthrough anyway

[somber skiff]

ch3 spoilers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfFSpqlsqnw

and early ch4

[woven tulip]

there are fans lol

[somber skiff]

guys where did the ||noelle is much faster and can freeze her enemy|| come from

[prisma zealot]

i have no fucking clue

[somber skiff]

lol

[broken solstice]

I heard it was a joke from outside Deltarune at first? Idk

[somber skiff]

damn

[weary granite]

Outside of Deltarune but the community just kept jokin about it

[sudden pilot]

(Chapter 3) ||I’ve been fighting the knight (with shadow mantle)
Holy fuck this fight is tough||

[somber skiff]

yea

[hasty sapphire]

||Kinda sad that the boss quality bar was raised so early, titan felt underwhelming in comparison||

[woven tulip]

||titan was easy with blackshard 💔||

||though, tbf i ain’t want to go through whole climbing segment to retry ||

[hasty sapphire]

||Haven't gotten black shard on my first playthrough, still was easy||

[woven tulip]

||just make gaster save you again, and put back immediately at the fight ||

[sudden pilot]

||I died in the titan fight, it spawns you right before it||

[woven tulip]

kinda funny ||that kris and susie gonna return to the church on the next day, and steal some hope candles . since, it’s pretty clear that geui are hope candles.||

[sudden pilot]

||they’re just stealing from all of the town, nothing wrong there :3||

[mild hull]

surprising that no one noticed the presumable ransacking of the entire computer lab

gotta be expensive for all that

queen is a whole laptop at least

[sudden pilot]

Chapter 7: Kris and Susie do community service

[storm bolt]

||YOUR TAKING TOO LONG 💔 || ch4 boss spoiler i think

||god i loved jackenstein 💖 ||

[gritty goblet]

|| ||

[storm bolt]

where can i get this..............

[gritty goblet]

its an emote in one of my own servers

[storm bolt]

i see

[clear sparrow]

||just noticed Susie's eye shines red when she makes the dark fountain.|| c4 spoil

[mild hull]

||kris has portal poisoning 💔||

||made too many fountains||

[clear sparrow]

||idk why i called it portal lo im running on like 2 hours of slleep||

[mild hull]

do more of that

it's good for you, I've heard

[sudden pilot]

||back to get killed by the knight repeatedly!!!|| chapter 3

[modern galleon]

||Happened to Kris too. It might just be a common occurrence when you make a fountain||

[storm bolt]

||I CANNOT beat the titan bro…|| major ch4 soil

[clear sparrow]

||well i mean Kris has red eyes even when not making a fountain||

[mild hull]

||what's gettin ya?||

[modern galleon]

||Yeah but their eyes don’t flash normally||

[storm bolt]

||the attacks. especially the one with that RED STAR and the baby titans||

[mild hull]

||minimize your movements and make sure to use that act that makes you brighter every turn you can||

||you can sit still and survive most non-red attacks easily||

(||not including the scary cannonball one ofc||)

[modern galleon]

If you’re on PC, press shift to move slower as soul

[uneven prism]

Crood buster

[weary granite]

Honestly? The minimize movement tip is just useful for almost every boss

Micro movements are the best for most bosses you'll find

Less room for mistakes

[mild hull]

ye

just so happens that ||sitting still is a viable strat for like half of titan|| tho

[weary granite]

Yeah fair lol

[hardy marsh]

||It's kinda cool how they lit showed us the titan in the trailer, but without the context we all thought it was the angel opening it's wings||

||That begs the question, what does the angel look like, isn't the a prophecy part about that?||

Ch4 btw

[woven tulip]

everyone except the player knows

||there is a prophecy with how the angel looks like but the image is blocked from our (the player) view ||

[hardy marsh]

I know i know i saw

||Is there something actually there? if you remove the collum||

[karmic elm]

||the angel is us||

||its supposed to show what we look like but for obvious reasons thats blocked out from our view||

[karmic elm]

I think that represents the ||determination that queen spoke about when explaining dark fountain creation||, but im not sure, could just be visual flair :3

[woven tulip]

no lol

obviously there isn’t

nobody’s gonna hide lore like this

[woven tulip]

but why though

||heaven knows||
||the beauty of the soul||
would be weird if ||the heaven is the soul||

the player also ||doesn’t know the story, while the angel does||

[signal grail]

||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcQ4U2Nhb34||

[clear sparrow]

||the antler headband lmao||

[blissful ivy]

interestinf

[prisma zealot]

sans

[blissful ivy]

||i hate her||

[blissful ivy]

how do i delete someone else's message

[hardy marsh]

Lmao

||She is totally the person speaking with Kris on the phone||

||or a very likely candidate||

[prisma zealot]

YOU

[prisma zealot]

||she literally calls kris at the end of chapter 4 snowgrave lol|| chapter 4 snowgrave ending spoilers

[hardy marsh]

||is that her voice confirmed?||

[prisma zealot]

yeah

[hardy marsh]

||What does she mean with you promised||

[prisma zealot]

not really much to confirm

[prisma zealot]

||the ending changes if you do snowgrave||

||with carol calling you||

||like, straight up her voice||

[hardy marsh]

Yes

I've seen the ending

[prisma zealot]

[hardy marsh]

Fair!

[broken solstice]

||its possible that Kris doesnt love the "getting them and their friends almost killed by the knight multiple times, just so it can proceed with some plans and potentially doom the world" part of their job, and wants to switch sides||

[blissful ivy]

||all these prophecies... oh my god.||

[hasty sapphire]

||Isn't it weird to first give the caller an unrecognizable voice and then reveal that it was Carol 15 mins later? Phone call scenes would have the same effect if they just used Carol's voice from the start||

||Weird route call breaks the consistency so I feel like it's supposed to be misleading||

||Or Toby just decided to do that because it sounds cool and didn't do it in the weird route because he needs us to hear the whole mesage||

[signal grail]

||its moreso showing that the black box caller and carol are different people, especially considering carol comes home despite kris never calling in the weird route||

[blissful ivy]

ralsei 💖

[blissful ivy]

||why is he sad 💔 ||

||why are you talking like those scratch undertale 'why are you kil them' fangames||

||i took too long||

[sudden pilot]

||the damn knight sword attack always gets me|| chapter 3 secret boss

[blissful ivy]

||which one||

[blissful ivy]

i meant ||im take too long|| sorry

[sudden pilot]

||the one with uhh the diagonal swords and the spinning circle of swords||

[blissful ivy]

||okay i was also stuck on that one||

try ||healing yourself instead of fighting that turn and stay in the middle of the spinning swords||

there's a ||tree|| in here, i wonder if ||anyone is behind it||

[signal grail]

watch how this recording approaches it, you only need to move 3 times ||https://youtu.be/DjLLys_3paY?t=134||

2:15

[blissful ivy]

ralsei... 💖

[signal grail]

||if you mean this attack by diagonal swords, you can move in any cardinal direction to avoid the diagonal ones. you only need to think about direction for the vertical/horizontal ones (you can also wait until theyre close to flashing white to move so you dont corner yourself)||

[blissful ivy]

oh dang what happened

[sudden pilot]

HEAVY CHAPTER 3 SPOILERS ||holy shartwheel almost there||

[signal grail]

YIPPEE!!!!

[sudden pilot]

||FUCK. YES||

[sudden pilot]

@signal grail !

[signal grail]

congrats

[blissful ivy]

congratuilarion

[sudden pilot]

||ok genuinely that fight was probably just as hard, if not harder, than sisyphus prime||

[mild hull]

errmmm 4 ☝️

[mild hull]

||I'd say it's kinda hard to compare, although if I had to, sisyphus is prob harder.

P2 forces you to spend a whole lot longer learning all of the ins and outs of the game mechanics as opposed to the knight, which is still in the first half of the game :^)||

but obviously it depends on the individual

[sudden pilot]

||obviously I’m biased||

[signal grail]

||cant wait for sans and the knight to collab in chapter 8 to hit you with the gaster blaster sword dance wombo combo||

i dont think theres any meaningful comparison between undertale and ultrakill gameplay

[mild hull]

for a more fair comparison, I think ||Knight could be said to be harder than Sans, although the relatively short length of the fight means sans probably wins there by a tiny bit||

[mild hull]

DELTARUNE!!! 😡

not undertale...

[signal grail]

😡

[sudden pilot]

||I’m not that good at bullet hells so the knight absolutely kicked my shit in||

[mild hull]

remember the tried and true tip: minimize movement

[signal grail]

||at first i thought this but honestly sans is definitely still harder even if the knight were the same length||

[mild hull]

||I think sans is more learnable||

[signal grail]

||the knight is hard but really their attacks boil down to a menacing appearance but they require relatively simple movement once you understand them||

||besides a few||

[mild hull]

||if you put me up against Sans and Undyne The Undying rn I'd probably win against sans easily and then die to undying, just `cause her attacks are more raw skill and less learning||

[signal grail]

undyne is crazy 😭

[mild hull]

tbf though, I've put a LOT of time into Bad Time Simulator at school

I can no-healing sans easily

https://jcw87.github.io/c2-sans-fight/ shoutout

[signal grail]

||the knight is also just strictly easier i think because you have multiple characters and actions per turn, it might be a closer comparison if they had the same fight mechanics||

[mild hull]

ok I only got to mid phase-2 first attempt but I'm rusty 💔

[signal grail]

LOL

humbled

[sudden pilot]

||I never did the sans route in UT so the knight was a difficulty wall like no other||

[signal grail]

yeah its super hard especially without experience

[rocky hemlock]

Did anyone notice that ||doom board|| sounds like World 8 map from super mario bros 3

am I tripping

[signal grail]

send world 8 map from super mario bros 3 music

[mild hull]

ok, FIFTH try no-heal.

someday I'm gonna go back to that and grind it until I can get a no-hit just so I can have that on my resume

[signal grail]

im sure employers will find that very impressive

[sudden pilot]

I’m just glad to (chapter 3) ||have a knight win on my record||

[mild hull]

it'll fit nicely beside "discord moderator"

[sudden pilot]

I sometimes forget that the server staff are actually staff

[mild hull]

yknow, why does employee and giant stick share a word

(staff)

oh

it's because it's like how a walking stick 'provides assistance'

so "staffing" was to provide assistance

[signal grail]

we need etymologynerd on this one

[mild hull]

I just looked it up on the etymology website smh

[sudden pilot]

Anyways chapter 4 time

[mild hull]

good chapter 🙂

[sudden pilot]

Yes, I already beat it this is the secret boss playthrough

[blissful ivy]

'wow, this buster is kinda rude...'

'guess you could say it's a rude buster, huh?'

[signal grail]

chapter 4 is the best imo

[sudden pilot]

(Chapter 4) ||NO LONGER, it’s not rude from now on (/ref)||

[mild hull]

I wonder if chapter 1 will always remain as it is or if it'll get updated in some form by the time the full chapter set is done

[sudden pilot]

This is teue I think

I don’t think it really needs an update

[signal grail]

what kind of update could it get

[sudden pilot]

It’s suitable as is

[mild hull]

I dunno, it's just so TEENSY compared to everything else we've gotten and every new chapter we get makes it feel lesser

[signal grail]

teensy like

length? or total content

i think it could at least get the multiple save files treatment

[mild hull]

I think the playtime is pretty decent, total content is a bit low though 🤏

[mild hull]

wdym? like weird route?

[sudden pilot]

Yeah that’s fair

[signal grail]

no like when you save in ch2+ you get to pick which slot it goes to

[mild hull]

couldnt you copy it to another slot and then delete the original

to move it

[hardy marsh]

I would like chapter 1 to get the same treatment as the other chapters in terms of borders, idk if borders are a thing outside console but they make the experience a lot more cooler

[mild hull]

probably not a thing outside of console because I do not know what that is

[signal grail]

yes but should you need to

borders are probably just cool art rather than the black bars at the side

[signal grail]

lol why is the main screen smaller

like you needed less vision on console

the borders do look cool though

[mild hull]

oh, perhaps that shows up if you play fullscreen but with a non-native resolution in some settings

[signal grail]

this bit is completely non present on pc

[signal grail]

it feels pretty comparable to chapter 3 tbh

[hardy marsh]

Nvm fuck

Stupid spoiler tag

[mild hull]

||Mantle quest, egg thing, and all of the minigames make it feel more overall contentful||

[hardy marsh]

Anyway yeah they are very cool

[mild hull]

honestly I spent a lot of playtime on C3 making sure I found the secrets

[karmic elm]

i hope not

(as in i mean i think its cool if its gonna be preserved(

[mild hull]

||unrelated but I read the name of the hidden game as 'manhole' every time I booted it up||

[signal grail]

manhole

[mild hull]

||still connected it to weird route in my head because of the manhole after the birdly fight||

[karmic elm]

cause then you can see the progression and improvements toby has made to both the art and other stuff

[hardy marsh]

||My fav one is in chapter 4 after the titan appears, the borders become fully black with animated titan eyes that Fade in and out, this follows into the boss, where whenever you hit the titan directly the eyes glow red||

[karmic elm]

which is really noticeable already between ch1 and ch2

i think updating it would add on stuff thats already great, i guess maybe update to make some textboxes and stuff consistent?

but in terms of adding new content i really like the charm it holds

[hardy marsh]

Toby updated Undertale like
many years later i think

Could see Deltarune getting that too

[karmic elm]

it might happen with full release yeah

some polish

[hardy marsh]

OHHH IMAGINE

[karmic elm]

i hope we get achievements

[hardy marsh]

Physical release

[karmic elm]

playstation got some

and apparently the actual achievement is not triggering any of them

and you get an easter egg cutscene at the end

[hardy marsh]

Yuh but i'm sad cause they don't count the demo atchivements

[karmic elm]

which js is so funny lmao

[signal grail]

playstation only has achievements because all ps games require them

[hardy marsh]

I Saw!!!
so cool but so hard lmao

[karmic elm]

yeahh

[karmic elm]

i know

[hardy marsh]

You gotta make a new account if you fail

[karmic elm]

probably wont have achievements, undertale didnt

it wouldnt make sense for deltarune to have them

[hardy marsh]

Undertale had too
Very silly ones like
4 related to a gag about getting items cause Toby had no atchivement ideas

PlayStation i mean

Do you guys think we will get version exclusive stuff for Deltarune

[signal grail]

he doesnt like achievements

[hardy marsh]

Like how Undertale has unique secret rooms for each console

[signal grail]

i think the switch already has some exclusive stuff?

[hardy marsh]

Yeeesss i think so

[karmic elm]

ermmmmm

i dislike exclusive content :(

[signal grail]

same

[hardy marsh]

Me buying Undertale on switch just to fight mad mew mew

[signal grail]

but im pretty sure its based on joycon functionality or something

[mild hull]

I think exclusive content in the kind that deltarune has used thus far is fine

just taking advantage of unique hardware

[karmic elm]

ermmmmm

[signal grail]

i dont really see why mad mew mew cant be on pc/other consoles when you still have wasd and arrow keys or left and right stick to use

[karmic elm]

yeah

[karmic elm]

im going to make you drift

[signal grail]

rainbow mini turbo

[mild hull]

(I specified deltarune)

[signal grail]

its probably going to stay the same up to full release so youll have to play the entire game that way

lol

[mild hull]

it's kinda hard to do two 360 degree inputs on keyboard or smth

non-switch consoles could do it

[signal grail]

im talking about it in isolation

idk what the exclusive stuff is in deltarune

just that it exists

[karmic elm]

i love this artist so much

also random art (ch4)

[blissful ivy]

i can't believe ralsei actually said this..?!?

[hardy marsh]

[clear sparrow]

he really did

[signal grail]

say that again....

[woven tulip]

also use ||"hold breath" act, it makes this attack easier||

[woven tulip]

and "played inv campaign"

[mild hull]

inv campaign will be a bullet point below the server challenges

[woven tulip]

tbh ||i completely accidentally found, i thought i’m just playing normally to progress 💔||

[woven tulip]

no lol

[woven tulip]

because you HAVE to

playstation requires games to have achievements

achievements don’t fit the idea of this game

[karmic elm]

ive already asked you several times to please not ping reply me here

please respect that

[woven tulip]

you can use the controller on pc too?

[mild hull]

it is certainly not the default, or something that most pc-exclusive users will have easy access to

I think giving the option in some settings menu would be nice but it isnt really a necessity

[woven tulip]

i don’t remember all requests of every person on internet, you don’t have "no ping reply" role

[karmic elm]

because its for you specifically

[crude gull]

ch3 ||THE LASER POINTER OF DOOM||

[blissful ivy]

||Okay, Guyse? Pauseth? Pauseth for a second?||

[karmic elm]

i loved that part so much 😭

[blissful ivy]

||So I Haveth a Laser Pointere. If you could juste... Followe That?||

[clear sparrow]

||its interesting to me how theres a dark fountain in the background of that scene, even though there was a different one? way further in the background earlier.|| c3 spoil

[woven tulip]

||we also never saw how they entered the fountain room||

it’s probably the same one

just a funny perspective

[crude gull]

i think i beat chaoter 3

[sudden pilot]

||One thing I like about gerson as a secret boss is that he’s really the only secret boss that doesn’t feel like they’re looking down on you, and his presence works especially well due to the previous secret boss being the knight|| chapter 4

[woven tulip]

||unlike previous bosses, gerson isn’t an antagonist. just challanges susie for fun||

though idk ||about that if you don’t beat hammer of justice, encounter with ??? later in the chapter doesn’t make sense . like, why would susie think it’s gerson, if gerson was never shown in such armor||

it’s also in ||the same (equivalent) room as hammer of justice||

[crude gull]

ch4 ||AMONG US||

[crude gull]

ch4 ||I WONT MOVE HOW ABOUT THAT||

||ok i might need to follow them||

[crude gull]

ch4 ||IS THIS A FUCKING DOORS REFERENCE?!||

[clear sparrow]

WHAT

ITS HIM

[woven tulip]

friend meets watcher???

[crude gull]

isnt spamton literally cat element too

[prisma zealot]

yeah

[crude gull]

yeah thats spamotn irl

[oak snow]

|| is there a faster way to retry the Knight?|| chapter 3 spoilers

[hasty sapphire]

||I hope later we'll get a reveal that his real name is burgerpants||

[broken solstice]

After you beat the chapter, return to the save file and try the fight again. If you die and dont get a prompt to retry, you are missing something importmant

[oak snow]

Ohhh

[oak snow]

I have the thing

[broken solstice]

Nice

[oak snow]

You lose and then after you beat the chapter reload the save?

[broken solstice]

Yeah

[oak snow]

Ok

Thanks

[broken solstice]

Also after ||Tenna fight||, you can go back and grab a save so you dont have to repeat it

[oak snow]

I did that

[sudden pilot]

||Pretty sure that has a laugh like gerson’s||

[oak snow]

Any tips for || the knight?||

[hasty sapphire]

||Mantle on Susie, spam rude buster, defend and heal as others||

[sudden pilot]

||just beat gerson, fucking peak|| chapter 4 secret boss

[woven tulip]

puppet/cat

[woven tulip]

you will still get it even if you are missing

a bit different

[woven tulip]

also i’m pretty sure it checks for any completion, even on a different save slots

[woven tulip]

yeah, but ||it looks and acts very similar to hammer of justice, which makes it obvious, even i thought it might be gerson . i feel like without fighting hammer of justice it would look kinda random ||

also ||pretty interesting that secret bosses are actually relevant to the story. spamton is very related to tenna’s story. the knight and gerson are literally the main characters of chapter 4 (former is the main antagonist of the game even )||

[hasty sapphire]

||Jevil relevance when||

[broken solstice]

||Spamton mentions Jevil a few times I think, and also Jevil references Queen and possibly Roaring. Jevil is also relevant for Seam, a pretty importmant character||

[oak snow]

|| how do I dodge the sans-esque sword attack that the knight does?|| c3 secret boss

[broken solstice]

You can hold X to move slower, or use Hold Breath act so you move faster until the end of the battle

[oak snow]

Ah

Thanks

The other attacks are not that bad

Just that one

[broken solstice]

||Yeah sword wave 2 is the worst move imo||

[oak snow]

Yes

[broken solstice]

I found it easiest to just stay in center and move along the tunnel

[oak snow]

Ah

[broken solstice]

If you start taking damage, move towards the center asap

[oak snow]

Ok

[oak snow]

Wow, the ||knight|| is really difficult