deltarune ch3-4 (soiler warning)

[gaunt hamlet]

||I don't think so, there's just a few minor changes if you came from a weird route save||

[nocturne mango]

o ic

[clear sparrow]

||it has a secret route thing but its more of an extra thing.||

[woven tulip]

almost no

[blissful ivy]

||wow, i can't believe noelle holiday actually killed sans undertale!!||
||that truly was a delta rune, wasn't it?|| (chapter 6 spoilers!!!!!)

[woven tulip]

||yeah, it’s more of shadow crystal quest||

[woven tulip]

||breaking: mayor’s daughter killed a local janitor||

[rocky hemlock]

My favorite part of chapter was when deltarune said it's delta runing time and

[blissful ivy]

wow

i didnt know starwalker was actually the ||roaring knight!!||

and nubert was the ||titan||

[somber skiff]

wrong

||starwalker is the titan||

"||These Light' ers are pissing me off||"
"||I am the original starwalker||"

[mighty pagoda]

||those spawns are pissing me off||
||im the original titan||

[somber skiff]

lmaoooo

[somber skiff]

real

i love how as soon as people finishes the game they start to deltameme

||gotta say people are taking too long tho||

[blissful ivy]

im still stuck at the ||knight|| battle

[somber skiff]

damn

[blissful ivy]

its been days.

[somber skiff]

😭

[blissful ivy]

even if im at max hp i still die at the ||second sword attack thing, the one where it spins around you||

my inventory is full of ||tvdinner|| and revivemints but still

i died again

[broken solstice]

||go to the middle, and move fast||

its likely the hardest attack tbh

[signal grail]

hardest imo is ||phase 3 star storm/diagonal bisect||

[clear sparrow]

||diagonal bisect is the hardest imo yeah, what do you mean by star storm though.||

[mighty pagoda]

||that one sucks yea||

[clear sparrow]

||that one was the easiest one for me idk||

[signal grail]

||circular hall of swords seems like its the same every time so you should be able to learn it by muscle memory||

[clear sparrow]

||why did bro move right into the corner at the beginning||

||but yeah i liked that attack, the only part that makes it difficult is that it hits the whole team so if you mess up a bit it hurts hard||

[signal grail]

||it requires the most positional awareness and precision out of any attack imo||

[weary granite]

||My strat is to just hug the walls, they are generous with the hitboxes and hugging the walls and moving I found was the best way to dodge it||

[finite phoenix]

(CH3)

[mighty pagoda]

||ralsei plush||

[broken solstice]

||Gaster being a player / fun gang cheerleader is basically canon at this point and funny af||

[mighty pagoda]

||how many rude busters does it take to beat gerson?|| (ch4 secret boss)

[broken solstice]

||the fight always lasts the same amount of turns no matter what you do, unless you just spam shield or spare in which case it takes 1-2 turns longer||

[mighty pagoda]

interesting

[clear sparrow]

||yeah you dont have to use any rude busters||

[signal grail]

oops i cut out an important bit

[broken solstice]

oh interesting

[signal grail]

so you should heal and rude buster as much as possible, attacking also gives more TP than defending in that fight

[broken solstice]

||I just spammed attack due to thinking it acted like Sans fight, glad to see it actually helped lol||

[signal grail]

yeah i figured the same lol

[mighty pagoda]

yeah i noticed that

[broken solstice]

||shouldnt you technically just spam heal? It does more than a rude buster, and buffs heal permanently||

[signal grail]

its kind of weird attack gives more tp but i guess its like ||tension from gerson grazing the attack like the soul?||

[broken solstice]

now that I think about it, I think I used the best approach to the fight accidentally during my first and only try lol, ||spamming attack and heal and nothing else||

[clear sparrow]

defending lets you take less damage so if you're bad like me defending is also goo

[signal grail]

||it costs a lot more and it only gives 1 more star than rude buster but yeah if you want to farm it up instead of ending the fight as quickly as possible||

[broken solstice]

oh right, the cost

[signal grail]

goo

[broken solstice]

||I forgot that it costs your life savings to cast it once||

[clear sparrow]

i swear i didnt type goo discord just hates me

[signal grail]

||the tp cost does go down little by little||

[clear sparrow]

||is the ok heal maxed out after the fight automatically or can it get even better i never checked||

[signal grail]

it isnt auto maxed

[broken solstice]

idk

[signal grail]

||it can be improved any point after the jackenstein fight||

[clear sparrow]

||how good is it when maxed out||

[broken solstice]

anyways gonna go back to the modding hell now tho please ping me with region gimmick ideas for Looker (inv watcher mod) in #watcher-spoilers if you have any

[signal grail]

||idk about tp cost but its max heal is 72||

[clear sparrow]

||goated||

[mighty pagoda]

||oh lmao||

[clear sparrow]

||i feel like its gonna get even cheaper later on , susie is gonna get so op (already is)||

[signal grail]

it went from ultimate heal to good heal in chapter 3 right

[hardy marsh]

Ok heal i think

[signal grail]

okheal is 4

im pretty sure theres a phase where it costs 90% tp

[clear sparrow]

in chapter 5 its going to be mid heal

[signal grail]

WHAT

[clear sparrow]

yea

[clear sparrow]

it makes sense

it goes from ultimate to good to ok

[signal grail]

toby would never call susie mid

[mighty pagoda]

gg

[signal grail]

nice

[clear sparrow]

it would b e funny

but yeah its going to be called something else like uhghhgh

[signal grail]

im pretty sure the name change is about susies perception of it anyway

[clear sparrow]

bad heal idk

[signal grail]

she wouldnt think her heal is mid after what she learns in chapter 4

[clear sparrow]

possile

possible*

kills my keyboard

[signal grail]

its probably just going to become heal blast or something

[mighty pagoda]

||4/4 :D||

[clear sparrow]

i hope it doesnt ever reach ralsei levels of healing but instead gets to heal multiple targets

[broken solstice]

||make it go through every adjective for quality in English||

[signal grail]

she would have to stand above/under ralsei and kris for that

[clear sparrow]

what why

[signal grail]

bc its a projectile

[clear sparrow]

well true

[broken solstice]

I hope Ralsei gets the multiheal, and Susie gets massive heals instead

[clear sparrow]

possible too i guess

[signal grail]

ralsie already has a multiheal in some fights so i doubt susie would copy that

[broken solstice]

since Ralsei already got multiheal against ch1 King iirc

[clear sparrow]

ralsei already heals a crap ton if you give magic items to him

[signal grail]

in ch3 as well i think

[clear sparrow]

like i straight up

almost never used an item in my main save

except for secret bosses

[broken solstice]

I really hope the game gets more diverse magics later on. With how long the game is going to be, there needs to be some stuff to spice it up

[signal grail]

maybe it becomes a spell that can heal teammates or deal damage

i guess thats kinda pointless with rude buster existing though

[signal grail]

same

[clear sparrow]

i want kris to get some kind of tp move grahhh

dude is actually so BAD

[signal grail]

the humble pirouette:

[broken solstice]

||X-slash 🥹 ||

[clear sparrow]

like unironically bro is the most useless member of the team (i mean i guess they get to act but thats lame)

[clear sparrow]

||i was so mad when i saw that kris never gets that move back in c3 or c4||

[signal grail]

kris is the most important party member

[clear sparrow]

||its so GOOD why does it not come back||

[broken solstice]

||kinda fitting tho||

[clear sparrow]

well true i guess

i jus hope we get some kind of new move in c5

in my main save ive used rude buster literally only in two fights the rest of my tp went into heal prayer

some kind of attacking spell for ralsei would go hard too i think

[signal grail]

he would never deal damage 💔

[clear sparrow]

true he'd have to go through some potentially fucked up character development for that

but i think there might just be more and more fight-only fights with no option of sparing as we get closer to the final chapters

so who knows maybe he'd get something cool in one of those

in 5 years

[signal grail]

in 5 years

chapter 7 will probably be in 2028

[clear sparrow]

the 2026 chapter 5 in question :

honestly no clue cause chapter 5 was originally meant to release together with chap 3 and 4

so its probably mostly finished already

||to be honest a part of me is glad we only got 3-4 and not 5 in this update cause that gaster (?) speech at the end is so fucking awesome wouldnt have the same impact if we got chap 5 too||

[signal grail]

that would still be 3 chapters made in 4 years

[clear sparrow]

i completely lost track of time ngl

i thought chap 2 was like

2019 or somethin

[signal grail]

after chapter 5 making 2 chapters in 2ish years doesnt sound that outlandish

LOL

chapter 1 was 2018 and 2 was 2021

[clear sparrow]

teah that makes more sense

3 year time gap for one chapter

[signal grail]

that was bc toby was working on it solo i think

[clear sparrow]

true true

[signal grail]

so the game being finished in 2028 or 29 doesnt sound that outlandish to me

that would still be 11 years between the first and last chapter which is crazy though

time......

[clear sparrow]

deltarune plot was made before undertale /silly (not really)

part of it tho

[clear sparrow]

thats like

[wraith urchin]

hello gay people

[clear sparrow]

deltarune chap 1 when you start school

deltarune finale when you end school

[signal grail]

LOL

chapter 1 released when i was 13

[clear sparrow]

i disliked chap 1 when it first releasedd because i was cringe back then

[signal grail]

cringe

[clear sparrow]

only when c2 released i played it and learned what peak is

[wraith urchin]

id just finished secondary school when chapter 1 came out and now im about to finish my masters degree this toby fox guy loves taking his time

[signal grail]

true

[clear sparrow]

||apparently theres extra dialogue for those extra turns as well. but to reach that you'd have to never impress gerson, so no healing or attacking or rude buster.||

||he says the same "Someone who'll never give up trying to do the right thing, no matter what" thing as he does in UT genocide path. but this time talking about Susie instead of Undyne||

||in UT he also says "There's no prophecy or legend 'bout that" which is funky to hear now, i am 80% sure the prophecy part of Deltarune and Susie was already finished before undertale was so its kinda wild to see what that was referencing to 10 years later.||

[finite phoenix]

||those attacks btw, are the same style of attack undyne uses where it becomes an increasingly massive storm of bullets moving really slowly||

[clear sparrow]

||I HATE THOSE||

[signal grail]

yea

[wraith urchin]

||gerson was always an interesting character in undertale, had a weirdly in-depth knowledge of the worlds underlying game mechanics||

[clear sparrow]

||he does in deltarune too i think||

||he instantly knows if you're on the weird route||

[broken solstice]

||While not really character development, they do seem to think of a lot of fights as impossible to resolve without violence in ch4||

[clear sparrow]

||well, it is just true, any fight with a shadow creature (or whatever you'd call the knight, titans and titan spawn) cant be beaten any other way||

[broken solstice]

Yeah

[clear sparrow]

||i guess you could also try and get a really big flashlight||

||but i think that counts as killing||

[signal grail]

||the titan isnt really defeated with "violence", its just sealed||

[clear sparrow]

also i wonder if the eggs we get from different chapters will matter at all, i hope we dont have to collect them all for something in chap 6-7

[signal grail]

||it actually physically cant be defeated with violence lol||

[signal grail]

probably secret dialogue or something

[clear sparrow]

||i mean it sorta evaporates i'd count that as violent||

[clear sparrow]

oh actually you cant get the chap 2 egg in weird route so proobably not?

[signal grail]

i doubt they would result in anything story affecting bc afaik they arent hinted towards at all

[clear sparrow]

some extra gaster dialogue perhaps

idk

[terse elbow]

has anyone here defeated ch 3's final boss

[signal grail]

yes

[wraith urchin]

yurp

[wraith urchin]

they dont seem too important but they dont seem too unimportant either

[terse elbow]

bro how do you even get the ||sword|| attack down💔

[signal grail]

which one

its like 3/4 swords

[wraith urchin]

you dont! its brutal

[terse elbow]

||the one where you stay in the middle, like a tunnel||

[signal grail]

||the normal version or the circle?||

[terse elbow]

i feel like i never move quick enough

[terse elbow]

both ngl

[clear sparrow]

|| i hope toby removes the fuckass visuals on that||

||only makes it more difficult to follow||

[terse elbow]

||circle|| one is somehow easier to me

[wraith urchin]

||have you acted with kris to hold your breath||

[signal grail]

||for the first one keep your eyes locked on the right edge of the box, make small proactive movements based on where the tunnel is going rather than trying to move reactively||

[clear sparrow]

||that one lasts for the whole fight ^||

||personally i beat it without ever using it||

[terse elbow]

yeah i do try to do this, the hitbox is just so tight on that attack i keep dying

i just need to get good

[signal grail]

||circle version always has the same pattern, idk how to describe dodging other than just watching this (2:14) https://youtu.be/DjLLys_3paY?t=134||

[wraith urchin]

||is the implication that kris is just holding their breath the entire time and thats why the dialogue talks about feeling light headed and like everything is spinning||

[signal grail]

probably

[terse elbow]

how long did it take yall to beat it

[signal grail]

like 20 minutes

[terse elbow]

i saw a video of a guy who did it in 7 minutes or something

[gritty goblet]

THE.

[signal grail]

oh you mean the length of the full fight?

[terse elbow]

are you a touhou player perhaps

[gritty goblet]

FUCKINFG CIRCLE

I'M GONNA CRY

[signal grail]

no

[gritty goblet]

GHHRAGAAAAAGH

[wraith urchin]

several hours ngl, helps if you ||equip the shadow mantle to susie||

[signal grail]

most of the patterns are just readable and consistent

[gritty goblet]

I HATE BULLET HELLS I HATE WHATEVER THIS IS!!!

[gritty goblet]

attempt #30 not anywhere NEAR close

[terse elbow]

i meant how long it took based on attempts. ive been trying for an hour but i took a break

[signal grail]

oh yeah then 20 minutes

ish

[terse elbow]

no shot you did it that quickly🥀

[wraith urchin]

was i just choking then? i replayed both previous chapters and did jevil/spamton first try

[clear sparrow]

same

[signal grail]

no its definitely a difficult fight

[clear sparrow]

roaring knight took me like 2 hours i think

im not sure

i took alot of breaks

[terse elbow]

jevil and spamton feel easier than ||the roaring knight||

[wraith urchin]

||only took me 2 tries to beat gerson too lol||

ch4 ^

[clear sparrow]

||gerson took me like 6||

[terse elbow]

ah shit i accidentally opened those

oh well

i thought that mf was dead

[signal grail]

||you could lose a lot of time to not realising rude buster is the most effective attack or not stocking up on healing items and such though||

[wraith urchin]

soilers: spamton dies of a heart attack chapter 6

[clear sparrow]

this is true

[terse elbow]

yeah, i do try to keep susie alive just to use that attack

[clear sparrow]

||am i the only one that found the secret room in c3 on complete accident on my first playthrough|| c3 secret room spoil

[wraith urchin]

||kris holds back too which isnt all that obvious, does way less damage unless the other two are down, maybe cos theyre holding their breath the whole fight. youre best using them to defend and use items||

[terse elbow]

which one

[clear sparrow]

||the one with a bunch of chests and coins and a funny spamton interaction||

[terse elbow]

ohh

[wraith urchin]

theres a what

[clear sparrow]

||i dont think he wants to fight the knight||

[terse elbow]

yeah i loved that room

[signal grail]

i played a little differently on my first run through of the fight but afterwards i always defend on kris and susie for rude buster and only heal them once they get to like 40-20 hp

[clear sparrow]

||secret room which if you go to with the dealmaker item a funny thing happens||

[terse elbow]

i try to keep ralsei alive for heal prayer

[wraith urchin]

also probably true

[terse elbow]

so i dont have to use up too many items

[mighty pagoda]

||am i forced to do the special act here? or can i actually kill the titan|| (ch4 endgame)

[signal grail]

heal prayer isnt really worth it over an item unless you have a huge excess of tp

[clear sparrow]

||if you no hit the knight kris coughs and the knight tilts it's head||

[signal grail]

||you cant kill it||

[gritty goblet]

is that The One (ch3 spoiler)

[signal grail]

||the furthest ive gotten it was down to like 20-30% hp and it would always heal back up to 80-90||

[gritty goblet]

am i like

almost clear

am i almost done

[clear sparrow]

||thats the split attack||

[mighty pagoda]

||yeah i got it to like 40% with rude buster but then it healed back again||

[wraith urchin]

||you need to get the knight to 75% hp||

[gritty goblet]

damn. screams

[gritty goblet]

cries

[clear sparrow]

||wasnt it 80 or 85?||

[gritty goblet]

that looks.. not too far off right

[clear sparrow]

well yea

[signal grail]

looks like 85%

[clear sparrow]

its sorta close

[gritty goblet]

my entire everything is shaking violently

i'm not MEANT for this shit

[clear sparrow]

good luck on the final attack

[gritty goblet]

graaaaah

[clear sparrow]

[gritty goblet]

WHAT.

[signal grail]

the final attack isnt even that hard honestly

[gritty goblet]

LOOK at the state i'm in

[signal grail]

i wish they went a little harder on it

[gritty goblet]

yeah well you said it took you 20 fucking minutes to beat the damn thing so PIPE down bucko

[clear sparrow]

i agree

i was prettylow on health when i got there but yeah it isnt that bad

[wraith urchin]

||i survived that shit with only susie alive on 1hp||

[clear sparrow]

i dont think it should be very hard though just a tiiiiny bit harder

[gritty goblet]

[gritty goblet]

I'M NOT MAKING IT

[signal grail]

relative to its other attacks

[clear sparrow]

||shes the main character 🚬 ||

[signal grail]

🚬

[gritty goblet]

FU8UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

[signal grail]

||it seems like youll always be set to 1 hp instead of dying on a killing blow just to have a bit of saving grace||

[mighty pagoda]

||btw, after that final attack, the knight's literally 1 hit lmfao, you can just hit it with a normal attack and the fight will end||

[gritty goblet]

GIOD DAMNIYT

[gritty goblet]

I DON'T GET THAT.

cries

gotts afuckinfg stary ovr

[signal grail]

i meant on the last attack

[gritty goblet]

i hate this

hate hate haet

[wraith urchin]

||didnt know this but had just enough tp for a rude buster||

[signal grail]

||id be fine if at the very end the stars split like phase 3 star storm rather than phase 1 just to give a bit higher sense of panic and unpredictability||

[mighty pagoda]

||i actually lost because of that once didnt have enough TP for a rude buster||

[wraith urchin]

youre right i think

[signal grail]

always has been 🚬

[wraith urchin]

||i do find it funny that after the knight nearly killed tenna they put their sword away and turned back around just to idk aura farm or something||

[signal grail]

||it does kill tenna if you dont have all recruits 😞||

[clear sparrow]

||tenna fuckign dying because i killed that one singular guy and so he decides not to help susie find tenna||

[clear sparrow]

||this is why carol would never be the knight||

[wraith urchin]

||mettaton enjoying the new tv i gave him is the true ending||

[clear sparrow]

||she wouldnt aurafarm this hard 🚬 ||

[wraith urchin]

true

[gritty goblet]

i befriended your mom last night tbh! booyah!

[wraith urchin]

chapter 4 : ||what does she Know tho, why is "YOU" in red when she talks is she talking to the soul||

[clear sparrow]

i do wonder how sans got to undertale from deltarune

[signal grail]

probably yes

[clear sparrow]

i dont car if people think this isnt what happened its the most likely scenario

[signal grail]

he walked there

[clear sparrow]

LOL

fitting

[signal grail]

sans is the angel and the "angels heaven" being banished is him being banished to undertale /j

[wraith urchin]

||but then she doesnt want susie around and does want the soul around even tho susie and the soul were both after the bunker code and kris is trying to stop them WHAT is going on||

[clear sparrow]

i would actually

slip on a banana peel and get into a coma

if this happened

it would b e awfu

[wraith urchin]

real lore: sans gave you the eggs

[clear sparrow]

||i feel like susie is the only one not bound by the prophecy, thats just my guess though . but either way they (the cult or whatever idk what to call them) do need the soul for whatever reasonn.. not clear yet.||

[mighty pagoda]

||hey i dont remember this|| (ch4 weird route end)

[signal grail]

||shes probably aware of the prophecy and knows the importance of the soul to sealing the fountains, but if dess is all fucked up as the knight she probably wants her to be saved before the fountain closes and shes locked away forever or something||

[clear sparrow]

||Yea. Carol calls you instead (or calls you normally atleast, if the other voice is also Carol)||

[signal grail]

||theres a part of me that thinks dess is the angel rather than noelle, and her "heaven" is the dark world fantasy shes stuck in since the shelter dark world appears to be endgame same time as the legend||

[mighty pagoda]

interesting

[wraith urchin]

||when she punched the glass panel at the end of ch 4 the next one didnt replace it so clearly she can change stuff||

[clear sparrow]

||i mean, it couldve appeared somewhere else.||

[signal grail]

||it just reappeared somewhere not visible because the space in front was already taken||

[wraith urchin]

||in all other cases it appears right afterwards tho, toby designed this deliberately i think||

[clear sparrow]

||so far my guess for the plot of deltarune is the second hero was never meant to be Susie and is actually Noelle, while Susie is the only person who can actually break/bend the prophecy, but erm this is just a vague guess though so im probablly wrong ||

[signal grail]

i dont think the prophecy is going to be changed

[wraith urchin]

||i think this is true, its deliberately vague. maybe in the weird route it becomes noelle||

[modern galleon]

||I second this. Plus that I believe the weird route is the prophecy route, and the normal route is the break the prophecy route||

[signal grail]

||i think the weird route being the prophecy is an interesting theory but it doesnt really make a lot of sense narratively||

[clear sparrow]

||the sword route game is based on the prophecy and has weird route stuff in it||

[signal grail]

||if you play through the game the first time normally and the prophecy is broken there isnt really a reason to go back and see what else happens other than "well i can so why not" which doesnt really seem like the angle snowgrave is going for||

[modern galleon]

||It does though. The “girl” is meant to be Noelle, and “Love growing inside of her” is what happened during chp4||

[gritty goblet]

i still ahte the cirjkle one

[clear sparrow]

||snowgrave stuff being in the prophecy is wacky cause does that mean its going to happen eventually anyway are we just doing it early ||

[modern galleon]

||There is another soul, or at least something similar growing in Noelle||

[clear sparrow]

||imagine in c5 or c6 theres a fight you gotta do with noelle in the team and in the normal route she's just not strong enough for you to win||

[modern galleon]

||It could just be that. Maybe weird route will simply end at chp5 because Noelle is strong enough for the task.||

[signal grail]

||if that were the case im pretty sure ralsei would make a bigger deal of the prophecy being changed during the normal route, he already knows more than us and thinks everything is going as it was supposed to||

[modern galleon]

||Since the numbers shown at the end of weird route chp4 does bot have anything past 5||

[clear sparrow]

||what what do you mean||

[clear sparrow]

||to be fair he isnt perfect, he could be interpreting the prophecy wrong and so he could miss some things not lining up||

[wraith urchin]

||i think it holds up, in the weird route in chapter 2 kris maintains the rank of "leader" while in normal route they get demoted to "tactician". theres a lot of dialogue options in chapters 3&4 specifically telling ralsei to not start forming his own personality that seem weird route related. although im not actually doing the weird route so other people could maybe give more info||

[clear sparrow]

||ralsei never questioning why susie, the supposedly second hero, uses an axe and not a sword like in the prophecy ||

[signal grail]

||he does have dialogue during the weird route that implies he knows something is different despite the prophecy being the same||

[modern galleon]

||oh Im got things mixed but I meant this page, pulled from a reddit post||

[wraith urchin]

||gerson seems to make it clear that the prophecy has a lot of room for interpretation, the phrasing could easily create two entirely different meanings, similar to his dialogue about the "angel" prophecy in undertale||

what happened to survivor

[modern galleon]

||It is heavily theorized to be how much weird content there is in each chapter||

[mighty pagoda]

icon change!

(except ancients)

[signal grail]

what happened to monks

[modern galleon]

What is this

[mighty pagoda]

i dont quite enjoy them

[modern galleon]

They look unsettling

[wraith urchin]

||maybe she will get some kind of sword in the final chapter actually, like maybe thats a bit of the prophecy we don't see||

||acquiring some legendary sword would fit with her character arc of accepting being a hero||

[clear sparrow]

||well true, you know who can equip swords though noelle||

[modern galleon]

||I don’t think the pictures of the prophecy matter too much||

[clear sparrow]

||susie specifically having two pictures is wacky to me||

[wraith urchin]

||no they definitely do||

[modern galleon]

||The literature part of the prophecy (which Ralsei kept talking about before chp4) never mentioned that the monster/girl wields a sword)||

[clear sparrow]

||i mean she is the main character i guess||

[heady fossil]

Chatttttttttttt any tips on ||The Roaring Knight? I wanna get all the shadow crystals and also the Black Shard|| chap 3 end soils

[modern galleon]

||which attack did you die to the most||

[wraith urchin]

||since the prophecy has "wiggle room" i think itll be either susie or noelle depending on the route||

[heady fossil]

||The knife tunnels, I am miserable at the knife tunnel parts ||

[modern galleon]

||Well I can’t give much advice on that cuz I also struggle. The hitboxes are weird. What I did was remembering which turns the they use this attack and heal/block beforehand||

[signal grail]

||i dont really see how the girl prophecy can be noelle when her horns are missing, we also have this dialogue from gerson relating to the hope prophecy||

[clear sparrow]

||the game tells you what attack he's gonna use||

[modern galleon]

||Also give Susie the shadow mantle if you haven’t already||

[signal grail]

this post makes a good point as well

[clear sparrow]

||she's shown in a cloak in the sword route that could also be a cloak||

[heady fossil]

||Already did ||

[heady fossil]

||Wait it does??? ||

[clear sparrow]

||yeah, the dialogue before the attack||

[modern galleon]

I also did not know that

[clear sparrow]

its funny to think the existence of deltarune and untertale started with toby having a fever dream about an ending to a videogame

[signal grail]

||she has hair or something on her back, im also pretty sure her horns would poke through a cloak||

[heady fossil]

I never knew that
I didn't even think there was dialogue unless I'm misremembering

[wraith urchin]

||dialogue is out of order here but it seems like "at last was the girl" comes after the mentioning of the three heroes, maybe its a reference to a 4th person? like susie and noelle are meant to be mentioned separately||

[clear sparrow]

||oh well not dialogue but like, the thing at the bottom of the screen||

[signal grail]

oops :3

||also with noelles angel imagery i think it would be weird for her to be referenced as "the angel" and "the girl" at the same time||

[clear sparrow]

||susie says the image for the angel is weird, but we never get to see it||

[heady fossil]

||Ohhhhhhh I never payed attention to that ||

[clear sparrow]

||i heard an interpretation that the angel's image is, the player's reflection in the screen.||

[signal grail]

||that prophecy comes with the ACT icon image so it sounds like she'll be the last standing in some combat, if susie does have to kill noelle or whatever as a last resort in the prophecy she broke i think that fits||

[wraith urchin]

||i do also think that maybe "love finds its way to the girl" and "LOVE finds its way to the girl" are how the two different routes will fulfil the prophecy independently||

||whole lot of wordplay going on with this one i fear||

[clear sparrow]

||i do think toby saying there will be only one ending is probably a lie in some way, or atleast partially||

||i think there might be a its the same ending but the context around it completely changes it situation happening in c7||

||with the weird route continuing to develop i cant imagine all of it not doing anything in the end||

[signal grail]

||imo the "toothpaste boy" and "jockington grows the beard" prophecies are supposed to go against that interpretation and show the prophecy is mentioning very exact events||

we also have this dialogue

||(after you see the toothpaste boy prophecy)||

||this to me is also showing ralsei knows about susies role as or not as a hero in the prophecy, i dont see why he would give the false pretense of susie being a hero when he knows the prophecy will come to pass anyway (it also kind of foreshadows susie having to do or being on the receiving end of something fucked up at the end)||

[uneven prism]

Deltarune chapter 5

[wraith urchin]

deltarune chapter 0 ralsei origin story

[heady fossil]

Ok y'all replaying DR again, watching the legend the line "Heroes stand at worlds edge" kinda looks like ||The cold place in chapter 3 where you fight the Knight|| chap 3.

[signal grail]

can you send a screensahot

[heady fossil]

Hold up

[woven tulip]

ch4 egg ||it’s interesting considering 4th egg is about art therapy . if egg man is gaster, then gaster is kris’ therapist ||

[woven tulip]

||it’s a bad strategy, you will see||

[heady fossil]

Ok I can't find the chap 3 image but

[mighty pagoda]

(ive already beaten it)

[signal grail]

it isnt a bad strategy

[heady fossil]

This part of the legend looks kinda like ||where you find Toriel|| just me?

I don't remember the name of the area so

[mighty pagoda]

||cold place||

[heady fossil]

Yea, that's the place I'm thinking of

[woven tulip]

no it’s ||"purified", whatever it means||

[woven tulip]

nor dog dollar

while y’all collecting eggs, the real secret is dog dollars

[woven tulip]

they are hinted ||there is a tree graffito in the cybercity; "fortune" award hints at where to find X in chapter 3||

[woven tulip]

spamton is quite easy lol

[broken solstice]

Possibly just a reference to OFF, a game that was an inspiration for Undertale (and as a result also Deltarune)

[woven tulip]

||none of final attacks in the game are that hard, but they require a bit more focus . it wouldn’t really be fun to make the last attack extremely hard||

[signal grail]

||it looks more like a desert tbh, the hills in the snow zone are also a lot more pronounced||

[signal grail]

i had to focus more on some of the other attacks

||you just have way too much space for that attack and it never really makes you feel constrained like the main attacks do. also whether or not a final attack being super hard is fun is subjective, i would find it a lot more enjoyable with a backloaded challenge||

[woven tulip]

that’s not true

[clear sparrow]

||it kinda looks like snow, which might mean something with the whole snow motif that noelle/dess/carol have||

[signal grail]

actually yeah it porbably is snow lol

[woven tulip]

then why is ||ralsei wearing the cloak? it’s no longer true since early chapter 1||

[woven tulip]

it’s terrain from rain world

[clear sparrow]

||TV World in general has this weird vibe to it that no other dark world has imo||

||well, c1 would come the closest with the little area you fall into at the beginning||

[signal grail]

when

[woven tulip]

||in the prophecy||

[clear sparrow]

||makes me wonder if c1 dark world was also made by kris||

||god i keep forgetting that ralsei's dark world didnt like, randomly materialize there, it was made for some purpose||

|| what the flip is the knight plotting||

[woven tulip]

||maybe it did, it’s diffirent from others||

[signal grail]

thats explained during the same prophecy

[signal grail]

||it was probably made recently too otherwise someone else would have stumbled into it sooner right||

[clear sparrow]

||it is called deepest dark in the prince prophecy kind of, if that means anything, i guess you could call any dark world that.||

[clear sparrow]

||i mean, the school is pretty small and they dont use that room that often... but probably yeah. there was also a second fountain in the room on the right (the one you actually seal in c1)||

[woven tulip]

||yeah, but ralsei still has it at the "they send. three heroes at the world’s end." part||

which didn’t yet happen

[clear sparrow]

||but i cant really imagine it being there for too long since why would they leave it there for a long time||

[signal grail]

in a prophecy or in the legend?

[clear sparrow]

||so i think it was made literally like, not more than a day before c1||

[woven tulip]

both

[clear sparrow]

its so fucked up how every item in deltarune has a conciousness technically

[woven tulip]

but the first is relevant here

[signal grail]

not necessarily

[clear sparrow]

well not every cause some turn into items and objects and not characters

[woven tulip]

toy story

[clear sparrow]

if at any point in the future it gets dark worlded and turns into a character, it gets all the memories from the time it was still a normal object

[signal grail]

idk what point youre trying to make honestly

ralsei can just put the cloak back on

[woven tulip]

but why

[signal grail]

because its cold

[clear sparrow]

which is so fucked to me

[woven tulip]

||even the knight’s dark worlds don’t seem to be as stable. no darker turns into stone, nor does ralsei, who is created by it, in other dark worlds||

[clear sparrow]

||i dont think the darkners not turning/turning into rock has anything to do with the dark fountain directly||

[woven tulip]

it could

[clear sparrow]

||imo its more of a vague feeling of belonging that keeps them from turning into a statue||

[woven tulip]

||why wouldn’t a playing card belong in the living room?||

[clear sparrow]

||pippins in c3 never turn into stone, while the darkners that actually used to work for tenna in tv world but got fired, turn into stone.||

[clear sparrow]

||it is weird||

||but c3 kinda shows that it doesnt work as we used to think it does||

[woven tulip]

i doubt ||the castle town fountain was made by the knight||

[clear sparrow]

||c4 too sorta, but you could argue the church dark world is a particularly dark place (even has titan spawn before the titan actually appears) so it could work differently a bit||

[woven tulip]

well

||there is only one character in chapter 4 dark worlds that doesn’t originate from it lol, starwalker||

and ralsei i guess

also ||dark sanctuary and second sanctuary didn’t even exist for long enough||

[clear sparrow]

||theres alot of statues in c4 that used to be darkners||

||its very odd||

||i do wonder what the knight was even doing in the church||

[weary granite]

Come to think about it.... ||Star walker literally never petrifies||

Omg it is the chosen one!

The hero!

[clear sparrow]

||was making the titan planned? or is that just because he had a run in with us||

[woven tulip]

well, we never see it, but maybe it happens

[woven tulip]

||interesting that the knight made two fountains in the church||

[clear sparrow]

||maybe it was to slow us down?||

||if so it definitely worked||

[weary granite]

||But...but hes the original star walker ||

[clear sparrow]

||im actually thinking there were two people making those two fountains||

[woven tulip]

also it would mean ||there were at least 4 fountains open at the same time||

[weary granite]

||Toriel was gonna do some practice there, knight intended to capture her there||

[clear sparrow]

||oh actually nevermind, there werent any people in there cause tori cancelled everything or whatever lol you wouldnt have to be so sneaky if theres no one there||

[woven tulip]

then ||3rd sanctuary fountain wouldn’t recreate dark sanctuary, it’s clearly the same person who made them||

[weary granite]

||Also, the Knight seemed to have made 4 or 5 fountains in order to create the titan||

[woven tulip]

it’s probably still one

[clear sparrow]

||i mean, 1 fountain in the front, 1 fountain in the main hall or whatever, 1 more inside that fountain., its 3||

[signal grail]

i mean like you said some become items and objects

[weary granite]

||Im interpreting it as it only taking one blade to make a fountain, the knight thrusted 5 blades onto the earth in the exact same spot which is a lot of dark fountain whatever smoke it is||

[clear sparrow]

yeah fair

[woven tulip]

||it seems only one would be enough, considering chapter 2||

[wraith urchin]

||this is probably why theyre so dark too i think, the fountains are so new that the darkness wasnt that intense (so less images were able to be created)||

[broken solstice]

so I just tried the bonus rythm minigame at end of ch4

what the fuck

[weary granite]

Qhar?

How was it?

[signal grail]

||i dont think "titan" spawn is directly related to the titans, moreso an outcome of darkness within darkness||

[woven tulip]

||maybe why second sanctuary is so broken?||

[clear sparrow]

||i think to make a titan you might just need to make a fountain inside another fountain idk||

[broken solstice]

tried one of the 2 new songs, and the tempo is at least twice as fast as hardmode of the first song

its insane

[weary granite]

Ooohhh yeah, its really fun imo

[broken solstice]

using only one hand was a bad idea

[wraith urchin]

||probably a combination of that and susie's different will||

[signal grail]

||i think susies dark world is different because of what she was concentrating on when she made it (trying to revive a dead lightner), while other fountains were likely made just for the sake of making a dark world||

[woven tulip]

||it’s tv time is from tenna fight actually||

[wraith urchin]

||lore implication of Knock You Down being insanely difficult? queen chapter 5 secret boss?||

[weary granite]

||I think thats the case but Im still thinking the knight made multiple fountains in the same spot

We see the black smoke from an earlier part of the chapter Im assuming cause two dark fountains already existed next to each other, but since they existed it would mean at least one would become a titan right? Imo I think the knight when making the titan opened several fountains to really intensify the darkness||

[woven tulip]

||but you can only partially play it, since the minigame isn’t the full song in the battle||

[weary granite]

||Chapter 5 boss is just the guitar

Its not even animated its a real picture of a cropped guitar||

[wraith urchin]

||special attack: the microphone png||

[wraith urchin]

||the first sanctuary fountain is also much smaller for some reason?||

[broken solstice]

ONLY A????

[signal grail]

you missed 18 notes

[broken solstice]

out of 400

[woven tulip]

||castle town and card kingdom were right next to each other. just having two fountains close to each other wouldn’t make a titan, it’s opening a fountain inside of a dark world||

[signal grail]

i dont remember which song but i got s rank with 5 misses

[weary granite]

||They are seperated by rooms, but for the church one in specific they became connected once Susie opened the door, so once the door was opened it was an instance of two fountains in the same space, which triggered black smoke reminiscent of a titan but none was formed until the knight made more||

[woven tulip]

||they aren’t separated, there is a second door in the classroom that leads to the closet||

[signal grail]

||theyre separated in the same way the castle town and card kingdom are separated in chapter 1||

[weary granite]

They are but the door is closed

[woven tulip]

||also the door was only opened when the knight opened it. both dark sanctuary and second sanctuary were sealed when susie opened the door in light world||

[weary granite]

||Yeah but once the door was opened to the other side by Susie they became connected

You can even travel back to Gerson's place while you are on the other side||

[signal grail]

after ralsei tells his story about the roaring in chapter 2 noelle is the only one who isnt surprised by it

[woven tulip]

because ralsei closed it

[signal grail]

(and kris but they dont emote to anything)

[weary granite]

Qhar? When was that stated?

I remember a major plot point was that the ||Heart can only close it||

[woven tulip]

that’s why you can’t go back to castle town

that’s the great door in the chapter 1

[wraith urchin]

i think shes just permanently surprised

[woven tulip]

anyone can close doors

just not seal fountains

[weary granite]

Oh you meant that door? I dont think that door ever actually was opened, the fountain seems to be still in the closet but we dont have any concrete evidence of it

Its a case of we dont know yet

[woven tulip]

you get from it to the card kingdom wdym

[signal grail]

this door is the great door

[weary granite]

Wdym?

[woven tulip]

yeah

[weary granite]

Oh I misread what Refr said

[woven tulip]

and it means castle town and card kingdom are right next to each other, separated by that door

[weary granite]

Inchresting

[broken solstice]

damn hardmode got hands

[weary granite]

I really enjoy it :D

Unironically one of the few rhythm game mechanics I've enjoyed

[broken solstice]

yeah its fun really

apart from the spam part (I suck at spamming inputs)

[woven tulip]

||a similar door in chapter 3 is the front door obviously. you can leave any dark world without sealing the fountain if the door is open||

or go from one world to another

||the knight goes from dark sanctuary to third sanctuary too||

[mild hull]

||those extra few attacks are really tough, tho||

[signal grail]

||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vns2tLtNAtI|| this theory goes hard

[woven tulip]

also ||having low hp advances turns as well, not just stars||

[clear sparrow]

chaos king's theme honestly goes so hard i wish he was more difficult

[broken solstice]

wow damn the other song is far easier, S rank hardmode first try while the other one keeps demolishing me

[signal grail]

it does go hard

[broken solstice]

🫴 Ribbit mod

[weary granite]

My only issue with his fight is that the pacifist run of it kinda just drags on

[signal grail]

dont you have to fight him

[mild hull]

doesnt fighting him not affect your "pacifist" outcome?

[mild hull]

you can wait him out if you really wanna

[signal grail]

[wraith urchin]

lore implications of the one stray pixel in king and queens battle arena?

[weary granite]

No, but I just wish the acts were slightly more engaging

Other than that hes a well done boss albeit easy

[signal grail]

||that one pixel is the piece of soul that noelle has now /j||

[wraith urchin]

yeah it doesnt you can beat him up no consequences

[weary granite]

||So many dead pixels...Its Noelle's doing!!||

[mild hull]

I hope we get more opportunities to use pure combat in the chapters going forwards

(without losing out on recruits)

[wraith urchin]

i mean we got that a bit

[weary granite]

Judging from ||Gerson's fight, definitely seems that way, he is very much encouraging combat||

[weary granite]

Well usually hitting me with big stick doesnt feel nice so I dont think that'll happen, but I dont doubt we'll get more combat

[mild hull]

||c4 seems to be moving towards it as things get more serious overall||

[signal grail]

you can hurt enemies to make them tired and pacify

[weary granite]

||Its a very big tone shift, with the end imo confirming that the more lighthearted moments will not feel so lighthearted||

[mild hull]

feels like a bad gamble if you accidentally deal too much damage

most enemies have a 1-turn spare condition anyways, making combat seem like an unecessary risk

[signal grail]

not likely if you lowroll or dont use the best weapons

[broken solstice]

YEEEEEES

[wraith urchin]

youre telling me my patented Big Stick That Feels Nice To Be Hit By wont be a commercial success? back to the drawing board

[signal grail]

isnt that only in chapter 1

[broken solstice]

hardest song on hardmode T rank wohoo

also thats a long combo

[clear sparrow]

recruiting darkners after beating them up is so funny to me

[mild hull]

||"knock your socks off"(shadowguy) and "harmonize"(wind instrument priest guy) ones come to mind; I can usually get like one and a half enemies per use of the act||

[mild hull]

I suppose it is Merciful™️

[signal grail]

true

[wraith urchin]

beating someone up, forcing them to sleep, then taking them far from their home (good route)

[clear sparrow]

ralsei is totally okay with this!

[mild hull]

ralsei doesnt even say anything if you go full violence in C1, huge double-standard 😔

poor susie

[clear sparrow]

i wonder why ralsei even knows the prophecy

[weary granite]

Ralsei just doesnt give a crap unless it effects us

[weary granite]

||My assumption its for the same reason that Kris is working for the Knight||

[mild hull]

as with all mysterious deltarune things: gotta be gaster

[clear sparrow]

did Kris read the whole prophecy to ralsei as an object

[wraith urchin]

well yeah hes the one putting people to sleep

in the light world hes a rag drenched in chloroform

[mild hull]

||ralsei is implied to be Very New, which wouldnt make sense if he had a long history with kris or smth||

[broken solstice]

ok only the default song left to T rank

[clear sparrow]

||i still think hes the pink horns thing kris has||

||kris has a hidden inventory apparently where he keeps the knife in lol||

[broken solstice]

||its not inventory, that knife is a part of him as a person||

[mild hull]

||just feels weird that ralsei is such a blank slate whereas all other darkners have histories tied to the lives of theur objects||

[clear sparrow]

||there are theories where ralsei IS the knife and his hat/or cloak is like a knife sheathe, but it doesnt make sense to me cause ralsei doesnt seem very knife-like in any way. Especially when theres a different object mentioned that fits him so well||

[weary granite]

||The knife seems likely but the issue is how is Ralsei able to decorate the mansion while were gone?||

[wraith urchin]

||i dont think kris carries him around, think about how lancer was carried to chapter 2 compared to ralsei just Showing Up||

[clear sparrow]

||funny thing, in a quiz where tenna asks about asriel's favourite character in ughh that one game, Ralsei knows the answer. (thats how i answered it atleast)||

[mild hull]

dark world kris is actually the darkner embodiment of the kris that light world kris carries

[wraith urchin]

kris has a pocket kris

[clear sparrow]

||toby what does this MEAN||

[mild hull]

||ralsei also acknowledges that he looks like asriel indirectly||

in a hidden dialogue branch

[weary granite]

||Its rhe street fighter copyright safe game, his favorite was the magician I think||

[clear sparrow]

||i think ralsei is the horn headband cause that'd explain why he knows this||

[broken solstice]

alright all minigames T ranked wohoo

[weary granite]

||Maybe Ralsei is like a memento that Asriel originally had? I can only assumr so||

[wraith urchin]

ralsei is actually a pronoun pin

[clear sparrow]

||toriel even says how she cant find it anymore||

[clear sparrow]

which one

green white and pink

wait

i misread that

[weary granite]

||Thats what a lot of people think as well, I think its also fair, Ralsei just in general knows so much for some reason||

[wraith urchin]

despite going by he, ralsei is actually a pin that says "she/her". like for more didyouknowgaming facts

[clear sparrow]

||the knight/whoever made the first dark fountain might've just done something special to ralsei to make him so different from other darkners idk||

[weary granite]

Hell yeah!

[weary granite]

||We dont know who possibly made the Dark fountain in the closet, or hell why its so powerful||

[signal grail]

his role is to follow and supprt you, hes a doormat almost the entire game

[weary granite]

A stool*

||Stool form activate!||

[signal grail]

he isnt a very good stool

[weary granite]

Well hes trying alright

[wraith urchin]

stool forme R 💥

[weary granite]

Thats his character arc

[signal grail]

but he is a good doormat

[weary granite]

In the ||end we will see his room, Its just a bunch of stools||

[clear sparrow]

what would YOU do if you had unending knowledge

[wraith urchin]

||when ralsei gets flattened in stool forme in chapter 4 you can do the same pose with him||

[weary granite]

Become a stool

[clear sparrow]

||we've already seen his room tho (i missed it unfortunately)||

[weary granite]

ITS SO FUCKIN FUNNY!

I was caught off guard by it so much

[weary granite]

||I know, once we fully decorate it||

[broken solstice]

the reason why Ralsei is trying to hide something is because they witnessed the Undertale code horrors

[signal grail]

what horns

[clear sparrow]

if you knew toby's spaghetti code you'd be crying too

[weary granite]

||If you give Ralsei the plushy RALSEI HAS IT IN HIS ROOM!!! Its so cute||

[wraith urchin]

what if ralsei is just a ralsei plush

[clear sparrow]

red horn headband

[weary granite]

Toriel comments on that the Horn headband in Asriel's side of the room is missing

[clear sparrow]

its mentioned multiple times i think?

atleast 2

if im not wrong

[weary granite]

I dont think we've ever properly seen it?

[clear sparrow]

yea

its not seen

anywhere

to me it feels like ralsei is like

literally perma locked to the dark worlds

[mild hull]

||a hint of defiance in weird C3, could be interesting later||

[wraith urchin]

||susie plush true ending 🚬||

[clear sparrow]

like actually unable to go out of them even as an object but dunno i guess he could just avoid it very well cause it'd be embarassing to get stuck outside of one

my reaction when i accidentaly leave the universe and am stuck there as a random household object

[wraith urchin]

i do think we will eventually get some explanation of what being a "prince of the dark" actually means

[signal grail]

ive never seen any dialogue about it 😭

[clear sparrow]

to be fair

his horns are pink instead of red

🦟

random mosquito go

[weary granite]

Ralsei just feels like hes everywhere at once ya know?

Like, ||How the hell does he have time to decorate the mansion if he is with Kris, why does he know so much, when the fuck does he have time to learn how to cook, sing, and be a damn horse?!?!?!?||

[signal grail]

asgore and toriel are king and queen of undertales world so its probably prince because hes based on the son of asgore and toriel

[clear sparrow]

when we sleep idk

[wraith urchin]

||being a horse is not so difficult||

||ive done it many times||

[clear sparrow]

theres a couple hours inbetween each chapters surely theres enough time there

[broken solstice]

damn just figured out Master Mode mod exists

[weary granite]

But if Ralsei is with Kris he cant do that D:

At least decorate the mansion part

[mild hull]

are you implying that asgore is "king of the dark" 🧐

[clear sparrow]

||which is honestly why i think he isnt with kris||

||ralsei uses some fucked up magic to travel between dark worlds||

[weary granite]

Same, ||but I just dont see how he is in every dark world without being with Kris||

[clear sparrow]

||he's fucked up! i dont know whats up with him||

[wraith urchin]

||how the fuck does he know when they appear too||

[clear sparrow]

||the prophecy? ehh no not really..||

[weary granite]

||Maybe we'll find out in the future wjat kind of FUCKED up things he does||

[wraith urchin]

||no no he says several times that he can like "sense" them||

[clear sparrow]

for every heal prayer he kills a bug

🐛

where do you think the health comes from

[weary granite]

||How is Susie healing us?!?!?

Does she kill whole bug families?||

[broken solstice]

https://gamebanana.com/mods/520678#FileInfo_1379838 really cool mod, yall should check it out

[wraith urchin]

||he does walk off when youre told to imagine susie in chapter 4, quite strange... this is when he goes on his bug killing spree||

[weary granite]

Wait a fuckin second

Yall, what happens if a bug is in the dark world LOL

[mild hull]

Lightner

[wraith urchin]

||years of bug killing backlogs||

[weary granite]

Lightners get uber jacked up with increased health and damage

[wraith urchin]

spider: 2hp

[signal grail]

no but it could be possible with the connections linked to him

[broken solstice]

||Considering that the Titan is a manifestation of a fear...||

not good stuff

[clear sparrow]

in chapter 6 we get a lightner bug

with magic that oneshots your whole team

[signal grail]

||could be learned in the next chapter since its very likely he'll be important to it||

[weary granite]

Oh gods...thats ||how the roaring happens? Its just a fuckin centipede?!?!||

[signal grail]

the centipede opens a fountain with all 100 of its legs

[wraith urchin]

||chapter 5 will be in asgores house. new boss idea: worm from the flowers dirt||

[clear sparrow]

||im very curious for chapter 5 dark world||

||theres literally only plants in his shop, nothing else! (okay i think there is a refridgerator too)||

[wraith urchin]

||where are we drawing the line tho like will plants be lightners? how about microscopic animals, or maybe amoeba? bacteria? i think we might have some kind of issue here||

[signal grail]

chapter 3 takes place in a room that only has a tv

[clear sparrow]

well yeah but the tv has tv shows inside it

as well as theres some lost fake cards kris made stuck inside the couch

[weary granite]

||Plants, fridge, a shit ton of trash, an air mattress, cardboard, a lot and a lot of flowers and fertilizer||

[signal grail]

the 7 colored flowers are definitely going to play a role

[clear sparrow]

oh no they definitely are going to be crazy

[signal grail]

actually the fountain is probably in the boarded up room at the back of the shop

there might already be a fountain there honestly

[clear sparrow]

there might be more than one fountain

[signal grail]

theres no way asgore is spending his whole day sitting on a floor level mattress watching tv

[wraith urchin]

||not really true, the dark world used to have the kitchen but tenna got the whole thing replaced by his tv set. plus it seems like concepts inherent to a space (e.g. the prophecy) can take on physical form too. its more like an imagining of the space than a literal 1:1 transformation of all the objects||

[clear sparrow]

i mean

||he goes to carol sometimes||

[weary granite]

Im genuinely so excited for it

[signal grail]

oh yea true

[clear sparrow]

||even finding her black shard (presumably)||

[signal grail]

wait

||he says he has a black shard, not a shadow crystal||

o_o

[clear sparrow]

||yeah. did you just realise lol.||

[signal grail]

yes

[clear sparrow]

||it isnt certain if it's his own , he could be looking at it lying in carol's room and just trying to figure out what shes up to||

||or he's with the knight too but i like the first idea more ||

[weary granite]

Yeah, ||Its most likely related to the incident with him fighting the knight

I think thats why the divorce happens, cause everyone around him thought je was fighting Dess or someone else he knew, when in reality he was trying to stop them from hurting others D:

I honestly cant think of much else as to why Toriel has so much animosity to him||

|| And also why asgore thinks he still has a chance||

[clear sparrow]

||he stands in front of a black katana as he says this if that matters||

[weary granite]

Oh gods I forgot, thats also really telling as well

[clear sparrow]

||cant see it normally and cant really tell if its just in a sheathe or if its actually just black, but i couldnt really call it a black shard. thats a whole sword||

[weary granite]

||He calls it a dark shard, very similar to the one we have if we have it equipped in the normal world||

[broken solstice]

gonna stream some Deltarune master mode in VCs if anyone is interested

[weary granite]

||Im just reallt excited as to how he'll play out :D

PLEASE GIVE ASGORE A WIN I BEG OF YOU, I love him so much but hes beat down and treated like a joke :(||

[signal grail]

can you send the pic of the full room again

[clear sparrow]

||no he literally calls it a black shard.||

[weary granite]

||Oh neato, I forgor if he alluded to it or just straight up said it ||

[clear sparrow]

||wait actually, is that even carol's room? ||

[weary granite]

||It being a black katana too ||

[signal grail]

must be

[clear sparrow]

||is it it possible its asgore's room and he's just renting it from carol lol (she does tell him to pay his overdue rent at some point i think)||

[signal grail]

isnt every visible room already occupied?

[clear sparrow]

||the bed is really reminding me of asgore's bed from UT in the old home||

[signal grail]

||noelles, dess, their parents above, then the bathroom i think||

[weary granite]

||Ehh, Asgore lives in the flower shop judging by the mattress||

[weary granite]

||Could be a guest room||

[signal grail]

this is interesting btw i dont think ive seen anyone talk about this here

[weary granite]

A lot of places have those, we have those :D

[signal grail]

i mean there arent any doors we cant go through that arent already explained

[weary granite]

Did not get that spoilered

Fuckin phones

[clear sparrow]

"Papyrus is implied to be one of the two listeners in entry number 17"

the implication : gaster saying you two

[weary granite]

Lol

[clear sparrow]

yeah theres

no other characters

that come in pairs

[signal grail]

i mean like

[weary granite]

Also its soo obvious Jockington is the second listener smh

[signal grail]

sans has a photo of 3 scientists right

that are impleid to be him papyrus and gaster

[clear sparrow]

||i feel like when we have so many more obvious signs that knight is Dess/even Carol theres no reason to talk about papyrus knight||

[weary granite]

Yeah, breadcrumbs compared to an entire feast of evidence

[clear sparrow]

||knight has snowflake shaped stars as one of it's attacks, has deer antlers, briefly presents a bat in the first encounter, is left handed||

[weary granite]

Ok, me drivr now, cya yall!

[clear sparrow]

||like i'd actually be mad if it isnt dess in some way||

[weary granite]

Its funny, if you ||check Tenna's flashback and compare Dess's with thr Knights, it actually resemble's Carol's horn far more||

[signal grail]

i dont think the evidence given is negligible

[wraith urchin]

||deer antlers grow more elaborate with age||

[signal grail]

||the knight is clearly still supposed to be a mystery and i dont think theres supposed to be an obvious answer yet, particularly with the carol red herrings||

[clear sparrow]

papyrus potentially being in deltarune is so fucked up to me cause like

he's a comedy character and he STILL hasnt showed up

and the chapters just get more serious

[weary granite]

||Yes but Dess has Rudy's antlers||

[signal grail]

these are the strongest bits of evidence imo (i definitely want to hear the roar and text sound similarity though)

[signal grail]

yeah thats the one thing i think is weird

i dont really see why papyrus would be trying to enact some sinister plan if the knight is a real villain

[clear sparrow]

||i heard someone say knight's scream is a pitched down noelle scream||

[clear sparrow]

||could be misinfo very easily though||

[broken solstice]

||"the knight is extremely thin" innit the knight is a shapeshifter too||

[signal grail]

||but he does try to kidnap you in undertale, same thing he does to toriel and undyne (it would also be a neat inversion that he kidnaps undyne in deltarune and then in undertale he works FOR her doing the same thing to others)||

[signal grail]

||they only have their base form and the ball 🔮||

[wraith urchin]

||ball form and the association with eyes confirms the knight is prunzel||

[clear sparrow]

||knight is a metroid fan||

[broken solstice]

||and also the leaking or slumbering form||

[clear sparrow]

||also false, they have the .. bird. creature. thing.||

[woven tulip]

gaster sends annoying dog to dark worlds with you

[clear sparrow]

||the one they use when they kidnap undyne and in an unused attack||

||god i cant wait for a second knight fight||

[wraith urchin]

i like how the dog is literally just toby fox self insert. he couldnt figure out a way to separate kris from susie/ralsei in chapter 2 in a lighthearted manner so just went "dog cones, im the cones, i made you go the other way"

[signal grail]

they have pretty similar body types honestly

[clear sparrow]

||papyrus could never be this cool.....||

||AND this evil (in a cool way)||

[woven tulip]

ralsei is a ralsei plush

[signal grail]

||theres also dialogue that states the knight is wearing a helmet so the horns could be an even bigger red herring 😭||

[clear sparrow]

||what about the bat and the snowflake stars||

[signal grail]

||i would think papyrus knight is pretty likely IF he had a reasonable motivation.. which we just cant give with our current knowledge of the roaring and prophecy||

[broken solstice]

||doesnt Knight also have a part of Dess leitmotif in the theme||

[signal grail]

shrug.. you meet him in snowdin ❄️

[clear sparrow]

||think so?||

[woven tulip]

||why i had this theme though ||

[woven tulip]

lightners aren’t in the dark world all day

[wraith urchin]

||yeah im not sure what papyrus knight would add to the story beyond being a shocking reveal to the player, he explicitly has no relation to any of the characters, character relations being something toby's writing thrives on||

[clear sparrow]

||i just cant imagine papyrus being evil in any way||

[woven tulip]

||like rouxls||

[clear sparrow]

||roulsx is in our pocket though no?||

||atleast the first time he travels between worlds i havent paid attention the other times||

[woven tulip]

||probably doesn’t, considering ralsei doesn’t immediately appear in tv world, and only at the end of second sanctuary||

[weary granite]

||Maybe if Ralsei was kept in the closet, but we know Ralsei isnt, Ralsei is in every dark world we know||

[clear sparrow]

||he appears late in sanctuary because he was making sure there are no bad prophecies we shouldnt see||

[hardy marsh]

Ch3 spoilers

[clear sparrow]

||even after we meet him he often runs in front of the team to check if the next room has anything we shouldnt see||

[clear sparrow]

||i love how expressive knight is in that scene right before the titan||

[hardy marsh]

||YESS
Also :v the roaring knight roars||

[weary granite]

||Ralsei is constantly doing things that he shouldnt be if hes with us but also things he cant do if he wasnt

How is he here for the chapter 3 fountain AND able to renovate the mansion at the same time? How is he able to learn so much in such a short timespan as well?

Maybe darkner places can just change at will idk||

[hardy marsh]

Ch4 spoilers end

[clear sparrow]

||he also just flies when you run from the titan lol||

[broken solstice]

||single-eyed mute characters somehow being the most expressive trope will always be funny||

[weary granite]

A lot of aura lol

[clear sparrow]

||gotta compensate somehow||

[broken solstice]

okay mod doesnt work for some reason : (

[wraith urchin]

||had to compensate for being trounced in the last chapter||

[broken solstice]

nvm got it to work wohooo

gonna stream it (for real) now

[weary granite]

||Kris coughs||

I actually managed to get that dialogue 2 days ago :D, really happy with it!!

[signal grail]

||since dark worlds are just "muddy" light world rooms it probably wouldnt be difficult to make rooms and renovate, we also see the castle town change on its own when you bring the darkners in chapter 2||

[signal grail]

||gerson has a compelling relationship with susie while taking up maybe 30 minutes of screentime in chapter 4, toby could absolutely do the same with papyrus if hes introduced later||

[weary granite]

Thats fair, but Imo Ralsei just seems so weird on it

Probably nothing major, but still

[weary granite]

||I am very curious on Papyrus's portrayal :D

The Deltarune variants of each character all have at least slight parallels to their Undertale variants, so I wonder what parallel this Papyrus will have||

Also, ||Im like 99.95% sure that Deltarune Sans and Undertale Sans are the same person, I dont think Papyrus is though||

[signal grail]

its pretty heavily implied

[weary granite]

||Yeah, its even more sad to think about too...cause its implied that he always thinks of THAT night with Toriel and it makes me feel bad for him :(||

[woven tulip]

||30 minutes?||

||gerson is like in most of the chapter ||

[signal grail]

there are a lot of pretty long sections where hes absent

[finite phoenix]

clarification now that we do somewhat know
chapter 3 ||the sound that plays is one that the shadow mantle makes during its boss fight! probably hinting towards the shadow crystal in this instance, or maybe hinting that it or the black shard are neccessary?||
chapter 4 ||i believe... this is referencing some of the dialogue you see in the location where you can find the egg room for chapter 4? a lot of what we saw for the sweepstakes actually does get quoted here i think. past that, we don't know.||

[clear sparrow]

c3 character spoils
I think this summarizes how little ive used items in this game

[gritty goblet]

small c3 spoiler

[somber skiff]

lmao

[somber skiff]

me listening to ||my funky town||

its so good tho

[clear sparrow]

c3 spoil ||you cant really see it but i gave her BOTH the ribbon and the stink||

[clear sparrow]

||oh hey thats interesting shadow crystal dialogue||(c3 spoil)

[signal grail]

all the shadow crystals are foreshadowing

foreshadow crystals 😼

||shadow crystals having future telling prophecies is part of what makes me think theyll combine to show a part of the prophecy||

[clear sparrow]

||the first crystal shows your hand missing or something||

[signal grail]

nuh uh

it says you saw toys strewn across the floor

[clear sparrow]

wait what i swear i saw some text saying you thought you saw through your hand

[signal grail]

actually maybe they have multiple dialogues depending on where you are in a chapter

[signal grail]

||theres something about that if you input 1225 in the gotchy ball machine||

[clear sparrow]

this is interesting i think c3 spoil

also im so smart

i redid all of c3

only to accidentaly

abort the extra thing

that i was redoing the whole chapter for

[signal grail]

peak

[signal grail]

for what purpose

why does he petrify 😭

[errant loom]

||roaring knight got me TWEAKING||

[clear sparrow]

||yeah uh||

||it seems like the petrification doesnt work in a you're not from here way ||

||its more of a mental thing||

||more dialogue here implies this but i didnt wanna screenshot all of it||

[signal grail]

||why would it affect lancer, hes way too gleeful to think he doesnt fit in somewhere||

[clear sparrow]

||yeah lancer is an odd one||

||but this is sorta just what the dialogue here implies||

||does he even petrify in c3? i dont remember that||

||roaring knight dropping 18$ on defeat i so funny to me||

[signal grail]

he says he will but i dont think its ever shown

[clear sparrow]

||arguably he belongs in c3 more than in c2 cause in c3 he's sorta gaming and in c2 hes ummmmmmmmmm doing like almost nothing||

[clear sparrow]

oh i forgot shadow crystals transfer into light world

[finite phoenix]

||https://fixupx.com/ZenderTroop/status/1932620831395369091 ||

Zender Troop (@ZenderTroop)

I was helping @/radialasymmetry with datamining Chapter 3, and we found this weird easter egg in the Cooking Show minigame where if you hold down "W" when it starts, THIS happens. Why is this a thing??
︀︀#deltarunespoilers

**💬 21 🔁 271 ❤️ 5.5K 👁️ 201.3K **

▶ Play video

FixupX · Jun 11, 2025, 2:08 AM

(ch 3)

the unused manual item graphics (present since chapter 1)

[signal grail]

Butter

[finite phoenix]

Pulsar Cannons

[clear sparrow]

LOL

[signal grail]

petrifying is probably based on the will of the lightner that created the fountain

||i cant imagine any other reason that the philosophers are stone normally but fine in susies world||

||the instant petrification compared to the gradual of lancer and ramb is so strange too||

||maybe lancer petrifies in chapter 2 because he entered the dark world AFTER it was created and wasnt in the knights vision of the world, and ramb petrifies because of kris' shifting opinion of them over the chapter (tho idr what im supposed to feel about ramb or think kris feels about them either)||

its weird

[somber skiff]

lmaoooo

[clear sparrow]

im sad toby didnt make any dialogue for that

[karmic elm]

Found this sick art (ch3 spoilers)

[clear sparrow]

gaming

[sudden pilot]

(Chapter 4 spoilers) ||so looking at the general freedom theme of the secret bosses, I wonder if defeating all of them will give the ability to ‘escape’ the prophecy||

[signal grail]

probably not ||https://youtu.be/wx85jm-IpMo?t=1m9s||

1:09

idk what i read to think you were talking about shafow crystals 😭

[somber skiff]

skill

why do i feel like toby fox is "negating the truth here"

[karmic elm]

because its toby fox

[somber skiff]

"And...
...
...only 1 ending...?"
yea the world's gon be saved that's the ending, how you get there tho

like ||we know the prophecy states that something bad will happen for the world to be saved||

[karmic elm]

maybe shadowcrystals confirm that ||forbidden route||

[somber skiff]

||I wonder if Susie is the one that could change the prophecy, or if the prophecy could be changed at all||

[karmic elm]

i wonder if you ||losing your hand is a direct reference to that as well, maybe noelle snaps and takes it out on you since to act you constantly point||

[somber skiff]

hmmmm

[karmic elm]

susie is known to be defiant

[somber skiff]

||defying the prophecy it is||

[sudden pilot]

I feel like ||if anything is to change the prophecy, it has got to be related to the secret bosses, due to their repeated theme of freedom||

[karmic elm]

nah

[somber skiff]

or ch5 toby could make a scret secret boss with nothing but the freedom leitmotif just to joke about the "freedom motif" obsession

anyways ||i think susie is very important in part of hanging the prophecy||

||cuz i dont think susie is one of the heroes||

[karmic elm]

not this again

[somber skiff]

wdym

im just theorizing i could be completely wrong

[karmic elm]

youre gonna mention the ||2nd and last girl bs and then start talking abt noelle equipping swords|| 😭

[somber skiff]

lol

nah just a feeling

i mean that theory could be true tho

• the ||susie is not the hero|| theory sounds like smth toby fox would do

the man's unpredictable im telling ya

ig we'll know when ch5 drops

[mild hull]

you say that like it's irrefutably incorrect

I mean, it could very well be a nothingburger, but phrasing that so dismissively is unproductive 🤏

[karmic elm]

2/10 bait

i will not mention it again

[somber skiff]

damn

[karmic elm]

im being dismissive of it because i dont agree with the theory, i dont see how thats unproductive

im stating my opinion like every other user here 😭

[karmic elm]

tbf thats probably the best food asgore has had in a while 😭

[somber skiff]

true 😭

also i just got reminded of ||ralsei owoing in ch3||

||and that susie of all people taught him that||

ok enough deltameming

[modern galleon]

||Carol doesn’t seem that abusive to me. She is cold and unforgiving sure. But according to Rudy she really loves her daughter and to this stay still have the paper snow flakes Noelle made as a kid hanging on the wall of her room||

||She dislikes Susie sure but I think aside from Kris Berdly and Noelle, people don’t know the true nature of Susie and assume she’s what she appears in school.||

[karmic elm]

I think it's a bit darker than that personally, especially when all I can think about her is her connection to ||the knight and our soul||

||While not actively abusive, she's definitely encouraging the manipulation that happens on the forbidden path, which is seen again during the weird ch4 ending||

[modern galleon]

||Yeah I do agree that she is manipulative and controlling, and is definitely onto something.||

She’s a politician after all

[gritty goblet]

c3 spiller

[woven tulip]

||if you backtrack into lancer controllers room you can see||

[woven tulip]

||it’s actually bonus d$, the base is 0||

[woven tulip]

||that would be "mike" again||

[woven tulip]

||that’s right, it will be revealed that it’s your soul, so if it shatters, it shatters irl too ||

[clear sparrow]

imagine if this is a foreshadowing to kris losing their hand or something

that'd be so sad considering they play piano

[prisma zealot]

🥀

[signal grail]

it probably is