Old Watcher FP Guide Coordination [Archived]

[prisma linden]

Bro never saw the japan promo art

Sprinkles, .explodetankium

[covert totem]

Question, what milestones are we pinning? I thought it to be max ripple and endings but I've seen a lot of variation

Like should prince encounter and weaver encounter also be pinned?

UE experience?

[lucid seal]

ue seems like it would be a fun one

prince encounter i have been

weaver maybe not, at least not until the fourth encounter

probably a good idea to make a collective guideline on it

[winter peak]

in theory you could just pin first entry to rim and know whether or not they met prince based upon their ripple level (if it's low, they leave via the softlock-prevention portal, but if not they gotta warp from throne and all)

that way you arent giving away that prince is a milestone directly

[fleet sedge]

i was thinking of bringing this up

we have a 250 pin limit so like

[covert totem]

Seeing your pin prompted me to

[fleet sedge]

endings and major milestones like getting ripple, prince, weaver, etc etc

not every time they get ripple

just the first time and the last time

[covert totem]

The first imo is very very early game

Which wouldn't necessarily mean a pin? But I'm open to thoughts about it

[covert totem]

Fair argument, I assume pinning the first throne encounter would do the same thing?

[fleet sedge]

it still marks a major shift in things

[coarse egret]

@fleet lotus

[fleet lotus]

Thats my job!!!!

[prisma linden]

Tnkium nke

[sterile atlas]

Tan- WHAT

[narrow scroll]

@prisma linden Which

[prisma linden]

The camouflage tutorial

It might also do it for the selfwarp tutorial? Don't remember

[narrow scroll]

@drifting swift

Watcher source mods:

[drifting swift]

sory i was trying to be vague there

was i not

[narrow scroll]

you were

I'm just explaining which mods were used

[drifting swift]

ah

i was thinking of badlands btw like i havent been to mod-badlands but i cant imagine any of it is reused

[narrow scroll]

none of mod-badlands was reused

[drifting swift]

god i knew it

[prisma linden]

Watcher badlands is actually badlands 2

[drifting swift]

you enter badlands and you can just feel the, idk, it feels very well crafted basically

vs level pack vibes

[prisma linden]

Badlands 2 was something that had been frozen in development until it got adopted into watcher and finished

It shares no dna with badlands 1

[winter peak]

is that MODDED CONTENT I spy

[narrow scroll]

||Coral Caves|| and ||Turbulent Pump|| are sections of the same Workshop region,
||Torrential Railways||, ||Sunbaked Alleyways||, ||Stormy Coast||, and ||Shrouded Stacks|| are sections of the same Workshop region,
and the big one:
||Aether Ridge||, ||The Shattered Terrace||, ||Heat Ducts||, ||The Surface||, ||Salination||, and ||Cold Storage|| are all sections of a massive region mod that predates the Workshop and never got ported to it. ||Fetid Glen|| was intended to be a part of said mod, but it was never released.
IIRC ||Torrid Desert|| was also an unreleased region mod, and, based on its region acronym, ||Desolate Tract|| was a subregion of it.

All of the new creatures are unique to the Watcher's campaign; also, some new mechanics have been added, and several of the sections have been repaletted to further differentiate them.

[prisma linden]

The creature part isn't completely true

Kaeporo's lizards

[narrow scroll]

oh true

[prisma linden]

They did get revamped a good fair bit though

Cosmetically and abilities

[narrow scroll]

IDK I never found them when I played the mod back on 1.5

Side note: the mod version was crazy hard. I ragequite two entire modded playthroughs from getting stuck in it

[covert totem]

I just realized I think Shardy never got the third monolith's dialogue #1356257931364143325 message

[lucid seal]

can probably tell them once they figure out what makes the monoliths activate 🥹

[drifting swift]

do people get confused by the monoliths often?

[covert totem]

Confused in what way?

[drifting swift]

well i was asking in response to this

i dunno what its like completely blind but i was clued in pretty much immediately that it related to the endings

[covert totem]

same

[lucid seal]

it doesn't though

i say that because prince's only relies on them hatching, not their ending

and that's the one they have active

[drifting swift]

then that makes a lot more sense

my impression was, i think seeing the 3 monoloths unlit, doing the echo ending, seeing one monolith light up...

[covert totem]

I immediately called their purpose the moment I saw them

[drifting swift]

and i do remember being confused by the prince monolith? but by then i already got the summary of "oh yeah one ending is optional bc another ending locks you out of it" and whatnot

well maybe i did too...... you cant know that...

but like doing one ending and seeing one rock light up solidifies it i mean

[prisma linden]

I watched the trailer where their names were used so l already had that precedent

Echo, weaver, prince

[sterile atlas]

[covert totem]

[lilac lotus]

[green tinsel]

.

Greetings

The Prince

[covert totem]

Lol

[green tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/riddler-paul-dano-new-rockstars-thumbnail-does-he-know-he-doesnt-know-gif-27552850

(Iirc at least)

[drifting swift]

know what

is this about hydroponics

because that didnt get backported or anything

[green tinsel]

Oh

Nvm

[green tinsel]

@prisma linden I refer to bad warp, which Cosmic already experienced

You need a Karma Flower when warping unless you want a bad warp iirc

Or... a lot more progress than they have rn lol

[prisma linden]

Yea that's true

Wording threw me off

[green tinsel]

Purposeful

I want to warn them that bad warp exists without tipping them off directly since they already did one

[covert totem]

Careful, there's spoilers in here

[green tinsel]

I already know lol

I know the endings and stuff xD

Not the specifics of the journey, though, which is what's interesting anyhow

Don't think I'd enjoy trying to figure out the weirdness of how to achieve the diff endings on my own, and I experienced the obvious one already personally in Rain Meadow

[covert totem]

Fair enough, I just don't want you to not have a good time

It is my voluntary job to do so, at least in threads

[green tinsel]

Fair!

Appreciated

[keen oyster]

Funky blue I found while working on Interloper

[fleet sedge]

WHAT

that blue is genuinely one of the most insane blues i’ve ever seen

what cycle

[keen oyster]

Extremely early

Around cycle 5-ish

I went through torrential then AR when I found em

[covert totem]

It's got wings

[sterile atlas]

someone seemingly wants help with the first part of watcher but i dont see any s pinning top spots

i even know there should be one in aether ridge but theres no half gold circle

does spinning top like appear later or something

[narrow scroll]

you don't get the gold circles until you visit the Shattered Terrace IIRC

so. just keep exploring

[sterile atlas]

wait real??

so spining top is there but its not shown??? and is only shown after visiting shattered terrace????

[narrow scroll]

yeah

[sterile atlas]

oh

[narrow scroll]

you get a dream when you go there which basically explains the entire quest

[drifting swift]

i dont think golden spots necessarily require the dream

i’m only vaguely aware of “need to have been in shattered”

[narrow scroll]

yeah that sounds right

[prisma linden]

Never seen someone find coral caves this late into the game

[green tinsel]

LMAO

[covert totem]

Wow🥹 🥹

[lilac lotus]

I like when people take super unusual routes that lead to experiences like this

every RW playthrough is personalized

kinda like Ollie over in vanilla threads not seeing Industrial Complex until after the void sea

[fleet lotus]

Best region unlocked after ending

[sterile atlas]

#1434579784041631764 message I think I have become a lorehead I wanna debunk this
(Oh yeah downpour spoilers)

It's about downpour not watcher dw

[fleet lotus]

Challenge 70 effect

[lucid seal]

me too with the iterators comment

[sterile atlas]

Yeah he beat challenge 70

[fleet lotus]

Go there and debunk the lore misconcwptions, tankium
(If you want to ofc)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1367006539717546064.gif

[sterile atlas]

The felper in me wants to wait until like a while after he beats watcher
The lorehead in me wants to do it now

Even tho it's downpour not watcher

[fleet lotus]

Eh dont think it changes watcher much
Doesnt matter that much when you choose to help w lore ig

[sterile atlas]

Look at it dance

[green tinsel]

They did say “maybe”

Their choice if they believe Saint to be the Triple Affirmative

They recognise that it’s not hard canon already so like

Whatever right xD

[sterile atlas]

Sait is pretty much explicitly not a triple affirmative

They can only target anything larger than batflies, but the triple affirmative requires being able to ascend stuff like microbes and rocks (UW pearl)

[fleet lotus]

Its funny how saint ||sees echoes as eternal damnation, but we now know this is not the case||

[sterile atlas]

Saint only satisfies the portable criteria and even then can't realistically travel the distance between iterators (other than moon to pebbles ofc)

[fleet lotus]

Sait can barely stand
Poor thing

[sterile atlas]

Rip bush scug

[prisma linden]

I do like to think sait personally walked around murking all those crumbled iterators from the skyline shot

[sterile atlas]

Even then things that saint ascends presumably go to rubicon (basically rain world hell)

[prisma linden]

His blood trail

[sterile atlas]

[fleet lotus]

Doubt it
Sait ||is stuck in the cycle thing
Probably keeps hallucinating w killing moon and 5p over and over
Unlore Echo purgatory or smth||

[sterile atlas]

Yeah we kind of see saints whole cycle in game

[prisma linden]

If l was in groundhog day I'd go around brain blasting everyone for miles

[fleet lotus]

You can see saint as groundhog cycle kinda

Would be so cool if james gave advice bofore msc was pmuch finished
Imagine if rw had 2 cannon dlcs

[prisma linden]

James openly dislikes the notion of canon

Per the 100k celebration stream, if you're talking about, in the example, if watcher is canon, 'you've missed the point'

Rainworld is a template more than a rigorous setting

[fleet lotus]

Rw is not a template

[prisma linden]

It's purely a thing for the fandom to fuss on like bugs in a maze

[fleet lotus]

Has to be coherent

[prisma linden]

But the devs absolutely aren't

[sterile atlas]

rain world lore probably has fewer contradictions than my own lore

[fleet lotus]

Thats a spacial thing
I mean more in a lore perspective

Mods can use rw as a setting, but i expect the base game/dlcs to be more coherent in lore

[sterile atlas]

This is actually a pretty big take away for me

There is no canon, only lots of individual headcanons for every user

Does this imply that in one person's canon saint might be the triple affirmative? That creatures have to lose their natural urges to ascend? That 'sliverism' can mean 'iterators that follow SOS'? The very things I have been arguing against this whole time?

[green tinsel]

Pretty sure that a lot of people believe this yes

[prisma linden]

The saint is an attempt at the triple affirmative

Gets the job, partly, still a compromise and doesn't fulfill everything, and has some consequences

Honestly just like the rot

The prince's proposed solution for the cycle fits that set of words slso

Really there'll probably never be a solid solution

Void, tea and rocks, rot, magic scug

[green tinsel]

Are they? We don't know if they're purposed

[prisma linden]

There's always a snag

I don't know if they're purposed either

Could be a natural phenomenon

An attempt done by nature/evolution

[green tinsel]

Mayhaps!

Or they found their own path

No idea

But they're one of the closer attempts at the triple affirmative that Rain World has discovered

The Void Sea might be it, technically, since it's portable, and it works, but it's unreliable due to Echoes

[prisma linden]

Andrew probably didn't invent a full answer for it in his head. Likely neither did James regarding watcher. Their stories are rather more subjective spiritual journeys deliberately intended to inspire interpretations

Leave a piece of the whiteboard blank to let the players spin the gears in their heads

[green tinsel]

Mhm

[green tinsel]

#downpour-spoilers message

Laughs in Anglers for whatever reason

Seriously, why don’t Anglers have threat music

[winter peak]

angler threat music should be the jaws theme

[harsh tusk]

Angler Friend Theme

[fleet lotus]

That rivulet fancam song
(Anglers are lonely)

[covert totem]

Their screams are enough

My assumption is that they indicate they're a threat well enough with the little light and their noises they make

[green tinsel]

Fair LMAOOO

[green tinsel]

#rw-co-op-lfg message

Uhhhh should this post be removed because of what was said about Watcher’s Infected Regions?

[tribal swift]

Channel description says <@&1206318641813921852>

Also, first playthrough helpers wouldn’t be able to act on anything in that channel

@fleet hill would be a better place to ask similar questions in the future

[green tinsel]

Ah, kk

Fair lol

mb

[lucid seal]

yeah that's a community helper channel

[green tinsel]

o7

[green tinsel]

Does... gun mod interfere with Scav Templars and Disciples? I don't really even know what they do tbf, I just know of their existence and saw one of them while playing Rain Meadow

[lucid seal]

relating to mods a modding channel would have more information on that probably

[tribal swift]

this thread is primarily for asking questions regarding helping people in their playthroughs

[green tinsel]

Ah

Yeah, I don’t use the gun mod

It’s one of the Watcher FPs that’s using it so I’m a bit concerned for them lol

Fair ‘nough tho

[lucid seal]

@prisma linden https://discord.com/channels/291184728944410624/1477212217563938907 don't forget you can repost blast now

[fleet sedge]

i... i've never reposted anything before...

blows tankium up

[sterile atlas]

ogsculium*

[lucid seal]

good job gobler... you grow up so fast....

[sterile atlas]

there shall be NO mentions of any watcher ending in the thread tiles

[lucid seal]

tiles

make sure they get removed from the thread titles too

[sterile atlas]

tiles

[fleet sedge]

what can i say this is a reference to

[sterile atlas]

watcher

[fleet sedge]

plants vs zombies i guess

🥹

[lucid seal]

🥹

[sterile atlas]

#1477345493632815384 message "leeches" is a creature spoiler gobbler

[fleet sedge]

wow.. thank you ogsculium...

[lucid seal]

@sterile atlas okay i didnt mena to tap your name but random pings spice up life so im sending the message anyway

SHOPPING BAGS???

[buoyant falcon]

HELLOOOO

[keen oyster]

[covert totem]

[buoyant falcon]

nice

I thought it wasn't doable

coral caves was the last region I explored because I couldn't cross this gap without float 🥹

[drifting swift]

well they did rearrange this room in the 1.5 update to make it easier

[prisma linden]

Yeah post 1.5 this gap's doable with a regular double throwboost

[buoyant falcon]

guess I sucked even after 1.5 🥹

[rapid river]

[green tinsel]

Oh. I did a rollpounce throwboost to get across

[rapid river]

Bloo Dimension
such a peak name @prisma linden 🔥

[narrow scroll]

I call it Boundary Space

[keen oyster]

Do we tell them that going too far in the third ending locks out the 2nd ending

Oh okay

[prisma linden]

Oh l shoulda consulted first maybe

Just went for it without askin

[keen oyster]

I mean it is a good thing to know for those that wanna get the endings

[prisma linden]

Yeah l do think it is okay to be upfront with that info

[keen oyster]

Replaying the entire campaign for 1 missed ending isnt exactly favorable or fun for many xd

[prisma linden]

I have seen threads that locked out prince ending because they weren't warned and they were upset about it

[keen oyster]

Yeag

[keen oyster]

Do we hint Dinosaurus about the rot spread chaining

[prisma linden]

Rot spread seems hard to hint without saying directly how to do it

Either you get it from "it's like a disease" or you're cooked

[keen oyster]

Yeag but pecifically like

The chaining aspect

Cuz its not hinted at in any way shape or form ingame and the only way youd know is by looking at the code or miraculously going through multiple portals and figuring it out

[lilac lotus]

Really hoping they add some kind of visual even if small, like spores floating around you for the rest of the cycle or subtle yet noticeable differences with the portals

[keen oyster]

Not knowing the chaining aspect makes rot ending significantly more tedious

[lucid seal]

chaining?

what's that

[lilac lotus]

oh yeah there's an obscure way to very quickly spread rot

[keen oyster]

Going through a portal with rot makes it so any future portal on that cycle spreads rot

Regardless if the rooms rotten or not past the initial one

[lilac lotus]

yup exactly that lol

[lucid seal]

that's really cool

...but very obscure

🥹

[lilac lotus]

not indicated whatsoever in the game in any way 🥹

[lucid seal]

yeah i had no idea

[lilac lotus]

please......... small spores floating around you..... please....

at least something

[keen oyster]

The thing is that literally nothing indicates that in any way so theres no way to realize thats even a mechanic unless someone tells you

[lucid seal]

it's cool they made it like a freature but there's no way to know at all yeah

[lilac lotus]

I do wonder if it's only intended for speedrunning or something??

[lucid seal]

i do think this should be suggested

[keen oyster]

It makes rot ending much less tedious but its not really effective if theres no indicator

[lilac lotus]

unless they just forgot 🥹

[lilac lotus]

yeah

[lucid seal]

rot ending is annoying without knowing that's a feature

idk how to forward that to devs though

[keen oyster]

Even if it is rot ending is just annoying to get for the casual player

[lilac lotus]

the annoyance could definitely be an intended part of it, but like, maybe too much for some lol

[lucid seal]

akupara will see the bug thread and mark it as done 🥹

[keen oyster]

Plus rot ending being locked out by persuing the 3rd ending and not being told that sucks

[lucid seal]

eyah

[lilac lotus]

I do wonder if the ending was even made for casual players in mind at all... 🥹 (consdiering it's the only optional one for the true ending)
I'd love for another dev stream for them to share their thoughts on why they designed things in specific ways

communication with the community has been an issue videocult has had lately, and something I hope they focus more on

(AFU has kinda suffered for the lack of communication as well, though that's only tangentially related)

but anyway uhh

yeah rot chaining needs an indicator

[lucid seal]

well there is that rw art month dev stream soon

[lucid seal]

something i will say

i wish they took suggestions and implimented them more freely even if they'd be much later

or even implimented more content on their own time they might have not been able to

because i know downpour had to cut out a lot due to time constraints and i don't really understand why they don't take the opportunities to impliment those after

(like add new ascended art for dp slugcats because i know that has been complained about before)

[lilac lotus]

Ahh, indeed

I do wonder if part of that is, like, not wanting to change too much of what has already been established as what part of the game is like?

Watcher 1.5 was a special case of course, since that was planned out due to the rushed nature 🥹

but for the case of older stuff, it might basically just be a case of "this is what's part of the game" & not wanting to change it too much from a state they were satisfied with releasing it in beyond bugfixes and slight mechanical adjustments

Even if I do wish a lot of technical stuff was changed as well

just, like, a guess at what mentality might be behind it?

[lilac lotus]

But indeed, I am also indeed not a fan of the ascention art & some of the misc other DP art (riv ending art with pebbles always looked odd to me, since its artstyle doesn't seem to have been updated to the more consistent official style like the rest), & going back and looking at a lot of the area design of DP areas I actually remembered fondly had me appalled at how much... weird lediting there was (Random flat lights basically everywhere 🥹 General odd palette decisions for some random added rooms 🥹 Default palette in a decent chunk of MS where the normal Moon palette would fit so much better 🥹🥹🥹) and so on

And of course for Watcher stuff

Like, all of AR for one 😭

I do like AR on a conceptual level (metallic industrial slop maze region ) but a lot of the excecution is both kinda odd and not official quality, but also not fitting for Watcher

Since recently I saw someone play through the much cooler mod version and realized the issue is that AR was a good modded region, but not a good official region, and also not really fitting for what Watcher was going for in its current state at all.

The best option would probably be to rebuild the region with the same general "outline" - like, tramway area, but with new rooms and such. North Tower, except without sucky geometry 😭
And maybe a few areas that could be fine to keep the same

(This approach for all the modded regions would instantly help Watcher a lot imo, but again, it's something I'd imagine they're hesitant to change at this point (as I imagine it'd both interfere with something they've already put out and readjusted to a point they're happy with and would confuse a lot of people not in the know about why things were changed, etc))

and of course designing stuff that way would require much more dev time and delaying the DLC, but like
I think we all would accept that if it meant a better DLC in the end

I do utterly adore the final result!
buuut it ain't perfect, of course

...uhh, don't mind my massive wall of text

[keen oyster]

I await completed reconstruction
I still gotta replace the official threat themes in my playlist with the new ones you made

[lilac lotus]

I still can't believe they just. Released them finally 🥹

not to mention this??

[keen oyster]

Yippee are they finally fixing the osts 🥹

[lilac lotus]

probably not the vinyl 😭

its fate may be sealed

but at least the uploads maybe?

[keen oyster]

Mayb

[lilac lotus]

since if the extensive feedback didn't get to them but they're seeing the comments, there's at least hope on that front

and it could extend to the digital album release too, maybe?

[keen oyster]

Ive been replaying all the batman arkham games and Ive 100%ed them all besides Origins and I got more osts I wanna put into playlists for idly doing shit lol
I gotta have my game osts

[lilac lotus]

incredibly real

[keen oyster]

I like how my typical music genre to listen to is video game

They make some good shit

What I am curious about tho is what the official osts are for the combat/predator themes in the arkham games

Cuz they have multiple layers depending on how many thugs are taken out and how in danger you actively are

Cuz I have a weird thing with needing to hear all the layers progression to gget max enjoyment

[coarse egret]

i don't think video game can be called a genre per se

[keen oyster]

I mean yeah literally anything can be put into video games so
Its just typically lyric-less stuff usually

[coarse egret]

nuh uh lyrics do end up in videogame music fairly frequently

[keen oyster]

Well

Yea The music I have in playlists is mostly noise music and not usually with lyrics

[coarse egret]

one aspect you can prescribe to much of videogame music is being built around looping

(though not all!)

[lilac lotus]

There is a pretty clear difference between a lot (not all of course, but a lot) of music made for games compared to music not specifically made for games

[keen oyster]

Yea true

Like for fights or environments they usually loop

[coarse egret]

in particular, there can be a separation between the "intro" part of a song that plays only once, and the looping part

[lilac lotus]

And also plenty of games have music as a sort of background that adds another layer to the game itself, rather than the music being the focus or the point of it

[keen oyster]

My favorite aspect of game music is adaptability
I love how it changes based on whats going on, its so good

[lilac lotus]

Dynamic game music is awesome

[keen oyster]

Like the pikmin games as a major example

Its so good

[lilac lotus]

I was about to say that lol

Pikmin does it really well

[coarse egret]

rain world doesn't have a good example (there are some songs that seem like they have human sounds like grumbling, but no language; and yeah a song with lyrics the listener can understand absolutely wouldn't fit)

[lilac lotus]

imagine the slugcat singing a song about how its girlfriend was kidnapped by a silver lizard & is planning its revenge

[keen oyster]

[coarse egret]

i can provide many examples
but have a pretty famous and old example from a game franchise I have never played https://youtu.be/mYdf0yqK_Fc?t=70

though the most obvious example of videogame music being difficult to distinguish from other music is rhythm games

[lilac lotus]

xbox, eat berries, he's a bear entity
xbox, eat berries, he's a bear entity
SEPHIROTH!!
/silly

sorry don't mind me lol

[coarse egret]

there are still some elements they typically share
for example, you can expect them to typically have a relatively high BPM value, or be more active

but also, rhythm game music (as in the main gameplay, not e.g. menus) generally won't be looped in-gameplay, which kills the main unifying trend of videogame music

lyrics are frequently common in rhythm games, but other than that, it's basically indistinguishable from just a song in some genre

oh and of course, there are rhythm games that license music

which makes there be plenty of songs that aren't made for videogames, but are used in videogames

[keen oyster]

just dance

The fuckinnn uh rasputin

[sterile atlas]

#1472116254520119362 message
new name for The List™
Tardigrade - landfish

[fleet sedge]

if it’s still being updated i’ll give my names that aren’t up there already
basilisk lizard: mycelizard
scavenger templar: lesser gilded scavenger
scavenger disciple: greater gilded scavenger
barnacle: shockcrab
boomerang: shield fragment
poison spear: paint spear

[sterile atlas]

my name for drill crabs was crashers

[prisma linden]

Loach: globster

Watcher scavengers: scavenger shamans

Not mine but l saw blizzard: godzilla before

Basilisk: wobbegong lizard (that's mine)

[buoyant falcon]

godzilla

[rapid river]

i still call paint bombs "paint buckets"

[fleet lotus]

Grafitti bomb 🥹

[rapid river]

yg

uh

yes that

[tribal swift]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1295244891559034922/1442212012104093746/-903269362PeenutPaintstrike.gif

[buoyant falcon]

fireworks

[tribal swift]

💥

[keen oyster]

They got a KV into Throne

[sterile atlas]

they can do that???

i love this

[rapid river]

yall js curious
what would yall do regarding seeing a milipede in a dp post? is milipede added by the washer right? im assume i would need to delete the message

iirc i think so

[sterile atlas]

millipede??

[rapid river]

yea

someone had a randomizer on accidentally

ive deleted the message

[sterile atlas]

what was the milipede again i forgor

[rapid river]

the long slugcat like creature

[sterile atlas]

i thought that was downpour or vanilla

[rapid river]

i dont have a gif of it or i simply cant find it

i swear wiki had a page about milipede where did it go

not in cut content either

sighs

[sterile atlas]

the thing only seen in memes that has all the centipede segments replaced with scug heads right

[rapid river]

there i drew it

yes that thing

[sterile atlas]

yeah wasnt that vanilla

[rapid river]

no

[sterile atlas]

[rapid river]

it was added in washer 1.5 as an unused creature

though... im not actually sure if its actually is locked behind that dlc

but i still decided to be safe and deleted the message containing it

[tribal swift]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1363213569109262569/1421176357974704261/maybe-no_actually.gif

[tribal swift]

delete and tell them to be safe

[rapid river]

yeah i told them

[tribal swift]

Means more watcher creatures could be randomized in

[rapid river]

#1479828699393032192 message

[coarse egret]

this came up during the <@&1459249491365593336> rule in #spoiler-bigenderal and the overall opinion was "eh who cares it's unused"

[rapid river]

not sure if its overall ok to be shown though

[tribal swift]

blizzard lizard in outskirts

I’m more concerned about other watcher creatures appearing but idk the mod

[sterile atlas]

Next thing u know the Weaver gonna appear from some random pipe instead of a blue lozard

[rapid river]

randomizer just... randomizes creatures that are spawned from dens

[rapid river]

only if

[sterile atlas]

Imagine a sky whale spawning in a tube in UW and you have to go back the other way

[sterile atlas]

Since 23848 is back should we put a more permanent name chart™ here

[fleet sedge]

if they wanna take that on again then sure

[sterile atlas]

@chrome swift #1356256638541103114 message

It's protocol yes

[chrome swift]

AHHHH WATCHER AHHHH

GET ME OUTTA HERE

[sterile atlas]

( context: #1476297904112009398 message )

[chrome swift]

(Also I just meant they don't have to move immediately, as long as they disable it)

[sterile atlas]

O sorgy

[chrome swift]

Anyway I'm leaving this thread now

[sterile atlas]

Fair

[chrome swift]

Because I still have progress to make in my Watcher playthrough

(Shamelesss #1475563547521056801 plug )

[sterile atlas]

Can you ping me in there if I'm not there already axtually

O

[chrome swift]

What the heck how was the latest activity here the time I got pinged here-

[lucid seal]

very quiet here

and watcher felping in general is very quiet

[chrome swift]

It's about to get louder

Or something

I dunno

Now that I've beaten Watcher I'm allowing myself to read Watcher threads

[narrow scroll]

#1474555235925229732 message

[chrome swift]

I was about to do the same thing what the heck-

[narrow scroll]

we should start keeping a list of things Ollie predicted by accident

[chrome swift]

I just forward the messages instead of copying the link, so you do it faster-

True

[chrome swift]

Also half a prediction

[narrow scroll]

[sterile atlas]

rot with a laser cannon

we need to add jerry the void worm into outskirts as a foreshadow for new players

[fleet sedge]

thank goodness they made it one word 🥹 otherwise they’d get watcher spoiler filter blasted

[sterile atlas]

thats.... a scary thought

[chrome swift]

Wait that’d be the funniest way to get spoiled on that

Awful

But REALLY funny

[sterile atlas]

#1356257931364143325 is soon to finish the true ending, I'd give it a day or 2 or so

This is a huge one actually

[chrome swift]

I need to find the time to read through the backlogs of Watcher threads…

[sterile atlas]

Shardy

[sterile atlas]

Read pizzas entire thread now

Oh god that's 16.5k

Mine is 2.5k

[chrome swift]

I just scrolled through the list of Watcher threads and marked the first message in all of them as unread

So... I have a lot of reading to do...

Oh god there's not even a way for me to condense these

[rapid river]

aww i dont see my post :C

[narrow scroll]

Oh wow

[rapid river]

super close

[covert totem]

Yeah they're doing it right now

[chrome swift]

Oh yours is right below those ones don’t worry

[rapid river]

ooh alr

[chrome swift]

I just started reading it earlier than those ones

[chrome swift]

Or at least joined it earlier

[rapid river]

makes sense

[sterile atlas]

Good luck on this massive commitment

[lucid seal]

most of my watcher threads are unread

i can't keep up with all of them 🥹

[sterile atlas]

I'm keeping up with my watcher threads

Not downpour though

im totally not biased at all

Congratulations to shardy for finally beating watcher though

[rapid river]

[frigid hawk]

I made a mistake, I should have taken 13 more days to beat the campaign for pretty number... >_<

[lucid seal]

@prisma linden can't you just warp out though? you can't do badwarps once you have weaver powers

unless that got changed

oh wait

you mean going there

is there any purpose of going to outer rim though 🥹

every region usually has a daemon portal anyway, it would be quicker the daemon way than throne in most cases

[fleet lotus]

You can sleep and the throne portal will reopen

[lucid seal]

if they were closed permanently

[prisma linden]

If you by chance did weaver stuff before any prince stuff

More likely than you think given shard doing the echo ending last for fun

[lucid seal]

most players deal with the walking left simulator though that i've seen

no satisfaction of all warps closed

[prisma linden]

It's funny how ppl complain about doing the walking left sim and parkour a million times (you're only required to do it once you yourself then opened a super convenient four different shortcuts that spit you out instantly at throne room)

[lucid seal]

not very convenient if you find throne at early karma since you can't progress much after a certain point

and i see more often throne gets treated like a side quest with the echo having higher priority, so by then throne connections could be several warps away

[prisma linden]

On my first playthrough l found throne at karma 2 heheh

[frigid hawk]

I only did it atleast 50 times so it's fineeee , better than walking right simulators I did >_<

[keen oyster]

https://discord.com/channels/291184728944410624/1483974892184670218

[chrome swift]

Update! :

…

…

I uh…

I haven’t had time to make more than a tiny bit of progress on these

This is probably just gonna be something I gradually do over the next month or so-

Reverse situation of Ollie predicting Rot Lizards

[covert totem]

Yeah it was "basssilsk or something lol

[coarse egret]

added basilisk* to flag now

@covert totem for what it's worth, the entire basilisk lizard* is in watcher spoil-block

[covert totem]

That would make sense as to why I thought I'd seen it before

[coarse egret]

except it wasn't ever triggered before

[covert totem]

/silly

I will stop talking

[coarse egret]

well you could have still seen it in the list of blocked terms

[covert totem]

Also true

All in all I know for the future lol

[lilac lotus]

Wait there's a viewable list??

[coarse egret]

helpers get spoil flag/block logs and the list of terms is provided there for convenience :peanutbutter:

[lilac lotus]

Ah, specifically helpers, I see

[sterile atlas]

The spoil block is super fun to read

Pizza should be a felper so they can read the spoil block

[lucid seal]

i don't think we should encourage people to become helpers just for perms even if it's just a joke 🥹

[lilac lotus]

yeah lol, it's fine

Honestly, the spoiler block feels like it'd be super helpful to know since I've definitely run into some odd instances here and there, but it's not super important, and I ain't becoming a helper just to see it

[coarse egret]

you know what, I think I can trust people to avoid intentionally bypassing spoil block and it doesn't have terrible things in it

discord automod for block, the spoil-flag.txt for sprinkles' spoil flag logging

it's pretty frequently updated though, mainly in reaction to some soiler slipping through :peanutbutter:

[fleet sedge]

awesome

[frigid hawk]

my initial helper application was:
"I want to become helper because I want perms so I can help better in fp threads :p"

[coarse egret]

honestly "just for perms" can be a valid reason for applying for helper depending on how the perms are used and what purpose you want the perms

"for perms" is a very broad category of reasons for helper application

ultimately there are really only two ways helpers are actually different from other users:

• a few perms
• being pinged (not applicable to all helper roles)
  hence, any reason for applying must be for at least one of these

[frigid hawk]

I really need to start giving pings to certain helper groups :D. been so close pinging artpers or what was the shortening for them, quite many times

[lucid seal]

yeah what i meant is the perms of being able to see certain channels for example and not for actually being a helper

[covert totem]

I said to help people better and easier using perms but I did so in several paragraphs because I know how to yap apparently

[tribal swift]

i feel first playthrough helper role is p unique that the purpose of it is mainly to receive pings
unique in comparison to chelper or velper ig

mostly a "you can be a felper without the role very easily"

[chrome swift]

I’ve been felping without the role!

Honestly I don’t really even feel motivated to try getting the role, it’d just make me feel more responsible for things when I could just continue having fun felping without it

[tribal swift]

you have no obligations as a helper, can do nothing even

[drifting swift]

i’m fake felper

like a ffelper

in that i’ll probably not look at too many threads

[rapid river]

me im the laziest felper i can confirm this

[coarse egret]

perms are still useful for pinning, thread renaming, and .reposting

i wouldn't oppose someone fpelpering specifically for these perms (to be used in good faith)

[lethal fossil]

you don't lose anything by applying. Fill in the form. Forget about it. Then time passes and you see couri knocking on your door

[chrome swift]

Do… do I want Couri knocking on my door?

()

[tribal swift]

courier isnt scary

[ashen dew]

I am

[tribal swift]

courier banned me

[coarse egret]

sprinkles is rivulet theory

[chrome swift]

Sprinkles would never hurt anyone

No, I have not been brainwashed by <@&821078631425769503>, why do you ask?

[coarse egret]

@fleet hill ban @tribal swift

[fleet hill]

This is not a Modmail thread.

[ashen dew]

*vwoooop*

Sprinkles spins in a circle and then sits down and smiles at you!

*pet pet*

Sprinkles raises her tail and pets you back!

[ashen dew]

@chrome swift *BITES YOU!*

[ashen dew]

*clicks*

Sprinkles touches noses with you!

[sterile atlas]

silly lizard

[coarse egret]

community helpers and VC helpers are unpingable meanwhile, that's what I meant by not applicable for all :peanutbutter:
meanwhile, gameplay helpers need pings to live

more mouse bites!

[frigid hawk]

Ah I see

[coarse egret]

oh and chalvers are also unpingable in that trying to ping them gets your message blocked (with the role being pingable for backend discussion)

[sterile atlas]

@ chalver

I just pinged every chalver

[rapid river]

this is how do you ping all chalvers

[spark basalt]

You just pinged me

How could you

[tribal swift]

@fleet hill ban @coarse egret

[fleet hill]

This is not a Modmail thread.

[rapid river]

this is a modmail trhead

[chrome swift]

[chrome swift]

(In reference to the shelter full of rot in Cold Storage)

[sterile atlas]

oh go- oh wait thats been posted already

kaeporo is evil

[prisma linden]

#1483247239559118899 message

They're talking abt the stormy coast portal (it's an echo one and they didn't meet it on the other side so it's still closed) @chrome swift

[chrome swift]

Y'know

I don't think I've EVER encountered one of Spinning Top's portals from the other side

So uh... that's my bad I guess

[coarse egret]

fwiw that specific portal is bugged and doesn't get saved on stormy coast's side even if you met ST in WPTA

ah nvm I checked the context, misunderstood it

[prisma linden]

Wonder why it bugged that way, was it from a botched attempt at fixing its position?

I remember its original issue from release that got complaints was that it was working fine but was too high up and needed downspear to be close enough to the radius of influence

[coarse egret]

that's a different warp

[coarse egret]

wait no that's the same warp

[prisma linden]

Yeah it's the same

[coarse egret]

misremembered it as being WPTA->WSKC instead of WSKC->WPTA

[coarse egret]

you can see that in my message here lol

swap WSKC and WPTA in that message to make it correct then

[buoyant falcon]

I still gotta learn the watcher acronyms

why are there 7 fucking aether ridges 🥹

[chrome swift]

I think my two of my biggest complaints about Watcher are:

• Regions feel less memorable a lot of the time; even if their aesthetics are memorable, individual rooms are less memorable than the Vanilla/Downpour regions (Honestly this'll probably be solved just, with spending time with the new regions)
• The level design just feels... worse, in a way? There's something indescribably different about it compared to Vanilla/Downpour that just isn't as fun

[chrome swift]

But the first point is definitely significantly contributed to by the face of some regions being split up modded regions

[prisma linden]

Did james build any rooms in watcher?

[rapid river]

i think no

ive seen a message list all peple who made regions for washer

and im tyring to find it

and i cant

[fleet lotus]

P sure no
James had a broken hand too

[chrome swift]

Ok jumps like this are a huge contributor to the level design feeling worse

I don't think there's any jumps like this in Vanilla or Downpour, but there's MULTIPLE spots like this in Watcher regions

[lethal fossil]

the nefarious sky island pits 🔥

tho must admit they are much more fair due to squidcadas present

[chrome swift]

Yeah, Sky Islands is also the only region with these jumps

So it feels more fair

[lethal fossil]

ridge regions have a ton of pits </3

[chrome swift]

Yeah this is exactly the problem-

[rapid river]

yeah this one is just scary

i just try to do precise pounces

[chrome swift]

Yeah it just sucks

[rapid river]

pretty evil of devs

[chrome swift]

There's literally zero alternative routes

That's the worst part

It would be fine if it wasn't ever a required jump to make

But it is

[fleet lotus]

Literally just pounce
And maybe a buffered ledge climb

You have float too so even less of an issue

[chrome swift]

Yeah ok this one's easier than I thought...

But I just don't like it

[drifting swift]

invisibility makes most creature interactions and overall navigation obselete

float makes platforming gauntlets obselete unless youre bad at the game hehehe

so that already doesnt do watcher any favors

even if a particular area has strong level design

[tribal swift]

Yeah I feel like the invisibility is cool but makes me not learn what creatures do

[keen oyster]

The entire path to get to the right side of OR for the dial warp is just this

[chrome swift]

Yeah

I just did that last night

I didn't like it

[keen oyster]

I love artificial difficulty with platforming 🥹

[chrome swift]

Yeah; the annoying thing is that being a few pixels off just forces you to redo all of it again-

And I don't ever find the float to be precise enough to go back onto the two tiles I just over or undershot with my pounce-

[keen oyster]

A lot of the geometry in Watcher could be a lot better

[fleet sedge]

sky islands pits are more like “go AT LEAST this distance and you’ll be okay” instead of “go exactly this distance or you’ll DIE FOREVER AND EVER”

[chrome swift]

YES

EXACTLY

[prisma linden]

There is one or two exceptions tbf

[chrome swift]

It's not the gap that's the problem - it's that you have to land on a 2 or 3 tile wide space

[prisma linden]

One of the bridges has a pretty thin floating lump

[chrome swift]

And then do it multiple times

[fleet sedge]

i love watcher but oh my goodness i hate the precision platforming

[prisma linden]

I've overshot before

[fleet sedge]

especially putting it in a region where it’s extremely hard to die otherwise

[chrome swift]

Yeah

[fleet sedge]

yeah but that’s like waaaaay bigger than some of the watcher stuff

[keen oyster]

I sure do love my 2-tile wide landing space 5+ times in a row

[prisma linden]

Bravo Kaeporo

A personal evil for me has been stormyling geometry obscured by rain

The cracked bridges in torrential

The suspended crates room in stormy

The echo room in stormy lmao

[chrome swift]

They got so lucky with what items were on the side they warped from that they've never noticed the portals were just spitting out whatever was there???

[prisma linden]

Lol

[lucid seal]

i don't mind much of the precise jumps even if they're annoying, but these two rooms in particular 🥹

pipe boost and fail to grip pole trap

and pounce and hope you land in the right place

[prisma linden]

I did this room on 2 karma my first run

[chrome swift]

I especially didn't like the room on the right there, yeah

@prisma linden Which one? #1474555235925229732 message

[prisma linden]

Astray

[chrome swift]

Oh, ok

...

I forget which one that's for

[fleet sedge]

getting taken into a warp for the first time

[chrome swift]

Ohhhh I see

[fleet sedge]

so at the end of the third spinning top encounter in the prologue usually

[prisma linden]

The "you beat the tutorial" achievement

[chrome swift]

"Usually"

Unless you mean getting it on a pre-1.5 save

[fleet sedge]

yeah

[chrome swift]

Ok I was concerned for a second-

[buoyant falcon]

I mean, you get the float tho

I didn't find it that frustrating

[chrome swift]

#1356256638541103114 message

[buoyant falcon]

awh

It felt pretty reliable for me, especially at high karma

but I can see the issue

[chrome swift]

It increases your speed right when you end the float, making it way harder to be precise

[rapid river]

@prisma linden i decided to delete that message with the custom item in #1432916763946913854

[prisma linden]

Yeah that's wise

[fleet sedge]

i propose the list of things that should be pinned

• third spinning top encounter (first watcher region)

• final ripple level acquired

• spinning top ending

• dial warp acquired

• first prince encounter

• prince ending

• first weaver encounter

• fourth weaver encounter (a path, a purpose)

• weaver ending

• final ending

because standardization cool and awesome

[sterile atlas]

I only disagree with the 3rd spinning top encounter because it should be quite obvious at a glance

Also pin the dial warp ability when someone gets it

[fleet sedge]

oh forgot about thay

[sterile atlas]

thay

[fleet sedge]

it still feels like a milestone

[coarse egret]

use the internal definition of prince encounter and pin the moment they first leave WORA

[sterile atlas]

Porl reading???

[fleet sedge]

and that leaves like a huge gap between start of the game and first pin if it’s removed

unless weaver is met really early

[coarse egret]

you get warped into the world of teeth, imo that's pretty noticeable

[sterile atlas]

We might also want to pin porl reading messages similar to this: #1356338640267116676 message

[chrome swift]

I'm still working on pearl readings... I think I'm over halfway done though, according to the Wiki's list

Also: #1483247239559118899 message
Getting spoiled on the name "Big Moth" implies the existence of small moths...

[chrome swift]

#1483247239559118899 message (It's the fake gate room)

I absolutely LOVE how Verdant Waterways and Fractured Gateways just have a room that's a karma gate that doesn't work

[narrow scroll]

my favourite room in Verdant Waterways is the Great Fall

(leftmost indoor room)

[chrome swift]

Oh I didn't realize that room was so far left, I always, off of vibes, considered it to be central

[narrow scroll]

It is central in spirit

[coarse egret]

yeah that's the background moths

[covert totem]

I vote to only do first weaver encounter and weaver ending as again, it's pretty obvious also probably not the 3rd ST for the same reason and also that it's quite early in the playthrough

[chrome swift]

I can’t tell if this is an intentional reference or not-

[lucid seal]

i'm going to silently delete it since it is very specific and likely a reference, but not going to say anything on the chance they don't know what it is and just heard the term Fractured Gateways before

[keen oyster]

I wonder what the score screen would look like if you killed one of every creature in the dlc
Including all the rotzard variants

[chrome swift]

That was the first thought I had when I beat Watcher, and saw that rot lizards were counted separately

[keen oyster]

The fun part would be rotting enough regions and hoping the lizard ids match up to get the specific ones

Thankfully the map icons are great in figuring out which is which but its getting them to spawn lol

[chrome swift]

#1483247239559118899 message
Also, we're both talking about basilisks, right?

[keen oyster]

Are basilisks the drug mushroom lizards

I forget their "actual" name

Or are they the sandy paint-tongue ones

[chrome swift]

https://rainworld.miraheze.org/wiki/Basilisk_Lizard

[coarse egret]

here's how it looks like

[coarse egret]

from @echo moth

the score screen doesn't handle the sheer quantity

[chrome swift]

Wait it just BREAKS?

[echo moth]

yeah

it's really annoying

[keen oyster]

Aww thats disappointing

[chrome swift]

Anyway, at least these ers only exist in one region

[keen oyster]

Someone make a mod to fix the score screen STAT /silly /hj

I just wanna see how many creatures I can shove on one screen for the funny

[keen oyster]

Thank god
Easily top 3 least favorite creatures in the game

[lilac lotus]

Wait wasn't the score screen creatures thing fixed at some point?
...or only partially 🥹

[keen oyster]

I think it mightve been fixed from crashing without MSC? Since that one was more common to happen

[chrome swift]

Top 3 least favorite creatures:
3. Basilisk Lizard
2. Rot Basilisk Lizard

1. Basilisk Long Legs
   

Why did it count like that-?

I wrote 3, 2, 1, and it displayed as 3, 4, 5-

[keen oyster]

Thanks Discord

[chrome swift]

I'm gonna leave it like that 'cause it's funny

[chrome swift]

Anyway, point made, basilisk lizards SUUUUUUUUCK

[keen oyster]

Yeahh

I also gotta say I dont particularly enjoy Anglers either

[chrome swift]

I haven't really had any bad experiences with Anglers

I don't think I've even died to them before, actually-

[keen oyster]

They suck ngl

Getting spotted by one in a big water area is kinda just a death sentence without someplace to escape to since they force you to swim at a certain speed otherwise they become aggressive

Also they cna go through pipes for some reason

[prisma linden]

Anglers would be fully fine and balanced if they took away the fucking ability to fit pipes

That's ridiculous

[keen oyster]

Salination is neat and all. But not when they follow me into the tiny ass side air rooms and basically guarantee a death

[buoyant falcon]

I agree

[prisma linden]

Yeah this should be a safe escape. Instead it's guaranteed death or softlock by it blocking the exit.

Their mechanic of letting them follow real slowly so they stay friendly, not viable in sali, you are RUNNING OUT of oxygen

[keen oyster]

Even by trying to sit in the furthest corner in most rooms it wont be enough distance for them to ignore you and try leaving the room

[chrome swift]

I think I got locked in a room with them once, and I just had to book it outta there with camo

[drifting swift]

whats salination with permamax ripple like

so if you need to camo, no bubble

[chrome swift]

Ripplespace forcing you to drop items sucks

I hate that

[keen oyster]

Keeping max 2 ripples is more optimal than pure max just for that

[prisma linden]

They shoulda implemented whatever that Ripple Tag feature was

So we could get grappleworms and bubbleweed in ripple

[rapid river]

wai poopycord does that? thats dumb as hell

[coarse egret]

that's just markdown ordered list formatting

[rapid river]

at the same time it feels dumb but now that makes sense and now i look dumb

[coarse egret]

for example, the same happens on reddit (where it's even worse because it will always start on 1) :peanutbutter:

[chrome swift]

Ok after a few more messages, someone should silent delete this: #1484285353392078918 message

Or just do it now

IDK

Don't want to spoiler that The Prince is from Watcher, but...

What's funny is that what they said isn't even right-

[keen oyster]

Do they think prince reads pearls?

[chrome swift]

That's what they thought, yep

Which... I suppose isn't ENTIRELY wrong, because you still need The Prince for the Mark

[keen oyster]

True

[chrome swift]

But no he doesn't read the pearls himself

[drifting swift]

parachute dlc in 50000 hours 🙏

[raw bridge]

Me

[raw bridge]

Agreed, such a cute name too, more than "ripplespace"

[rapid river]

bloo dimension

[green tinsel]

Damn that was ages ago

Yeah lol

Idk how much gun mod interfered with your playthrough?

[raw bridge]

Damm only two interactions regarding my thread here? damm

[raw bridge]

Not much really, in the start i purposefully avoided using them, and by the end i was too busy going into ripplespace to even think of holding onto one

[chrome swift]

Wait

[chrome swift]

You used a gun mod for your first Watcher playthrough???????

[raw bridge]

Been there since Downpour

[green tinsel]

Fair

[raw bridge]

Mainly used it for arti and only sometimes for other scugs

literally almost never as watcher

[chrome swift]

Why????????????????????????????

[raw bridge]

cuz it's COOL 😭

[green tinsel]

Hence the interaction where I asked about it lol

[chrome swift]

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[raw bridge]

Why are you acting that way 😭 😭

[chrome swift]

I'm just confused why you'd use a mod like that on a first playthrough??????????????

Not upset, offended, or mad at you or anything, just genuinely confused????????????

[raw bridge]

I am just naturally highly drawn to modding games, and having that mod around was good even if i almost never actually used it 😭 (sometimes scavs spawned with it)

[chrome swift]

Well... you do you I guess????????????????????

[raw bridge]

Thank you Dave

It really didn't affect my playthrough as much as the words "Gun mod" would

For violence i mostly relied on my red lizard

And even then

i tried to avoid violence

except for moths, where it just became unavoidable

[chrome swift]

https://discord.com/channels/291184728944410624/1486786268951085146
I think this person has never been through Daemon, somehow...

Ok they have, but I guess haven't been to Shattered Terrace from there...?

[raw bridge]

Wait they never did spinning top? 😭

[chrome swift]

No, they did

They just haven't ever gone back to Shattered Terrace via Daemon

[raw bridge]

ohhhh i see

[prisma linden]

Sending everyone to the bloo dimension rn

[tribal swift]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1177686334333259887/1367710656190742589/spearSpinPuter.gif

[chrome swift]

#1474555235925229732 message
No, you have to explore the same 20 regions-

[keen oyster]

And some of them suck, too!

Fetid Glen

[chrome swift]

Yep!

[fleet sedge]

if every aether ridge region was removed most of the dlc’s flaws would be erased

just like that

[chrome swift]

And some of them are linear and incredibly boring to travel through more than once!

[fleet sedge]

no downside

[chrome swift]

Which regions ARE Aether Ridge regions, actually?

[keen oyster]

Like 7 or something

[fleet sedge]

aether ridge (ofc)
the surface
cold storage
fetid glen
salination
shattered terrace

i think there was another

[chrome swift]

FETID GLEN!?

[fleet sedge]

they’re really forgettable

[chrome swift]

WHAT DO YOU MEAN FETID GLEN IS AETHER RIDGE??????

[keen oyster]

Lemme check the Ridglings

[chrome swift]

Fetid Glen is potentially the most unique region, aesthetically-

[fleet sedge]

okay there’s only 6

i don’t think a warg exists

[lucid seal]

migration path uses aether ridge rooms

[fleet sedge]

there is no escape

[fleet sedge]

and the ugliest ❤️

[lucid seal]

also heat ducts

[fleet sedge]

fetid glen has literally nothing good i don’t know how anyone likes it

[fleet sedge]

THAT

[keen oyster]

Aether Ridge
Fetid Glen
Cold Storage
Migration Path technically
Shattered Terrace
Salination
The Surface
Heat Ducts

[fleet sedge]

okay i knew i was forgetting one

[lucid seal]

where is heat ducts

the edit

[fleet sedge]

behidn you

[lucid seal]

🥹

[keen oyster]

Salination and Fetid have a few similar rooms and Shattered I believe was supposed to be added to the mod in an updtae I thiiiiink but then it got dlc'ed

[fleet sedge]

similar rooms and guess what.

they both SUCK!!!!!

[keen oyster]

Surface is warg

[fleet sedge]

i have never ever heard the warg acronym

[chrome swift]

Oh... I think it looks neat 🥹

[fleet sedge]

it’s so ugly

🥹

they just slapped brown over everythign and put a big rainbow in the bbg

BG

NOT BBG

[lucid seal]

dung glen

[lucid seal]

babyglen

[chrome swift]

#1474555235925229732 message
No, that's Watcher

[fleet sedge]

i am referencing watcher

[lucid seal]

sacrificing gobbler for watcher content in downpour threads

your punishment is a long 100 small platforms bridge

and at the end you have to do the drainage gauntlet to subterranean

[fleet sedge]

can’t hear you from the raincord backrooms

[lucid seal]

but it has 10 times the leeches

is salad there

[fleet sedge]

salad has done nothing to be there

[harsh tusk]

I don't think Kaeporo's blight/ridgelings are the main flaw of watcher

Like yeah they're... Not great imo but Watcher's campaign loop does nothing but bring those flaws to the forefront

It's weird that they're used as this scapegoat for watcher's issues rather than being seen as a symptom of the DLC's issues

[keen oyster]

Bring back karma gates 🔥

[rapid river]

ok now i misread "sacrificing" as "searching"

[chrome swift]

WVWB_A03 and WVWA_A11 are probably my two favorite rooms in Watcher (or at least two of my favorites)
(They're the fake gate rooms in Fractured Gateways and Verdant Waterways)

[rapid river]

i ated your gate rooms

[keen oyster]

While I do like rifts for travel, a mix wouldve been cool too
Certain regions would be gated while others were rifts

Would help some of the world feel more connected that way

[chrome swift]

That's one of the big problems with the formula of Watcher, yeah;
The rifts make the regions feel COMPLETELY disconnected from each other

Also makes it harder to decipher from a lore perspective

Because you can't even be sure everything is even in the same, like, timeline

[keen oyster]

The fun part of the vanilla regions is seeing how certain rooms changed to match the region beyond the gate
Like IC to GW or SC to SL
Trying to figure out how the regions fit in with each other, Watcher doesnt really have that

Unless if you wanna count the little rifts from the environment showing a hint of the region it connects to but thats not really the same thing

[drifting swift]

its just an easy scapegoat when its your 20th time going "REALLY? aether ridge AGAIN?"

I'm also assuming it's probably the hardest set of watcher regions so you're gonna be stuck there for even longer

[winter peak]

isnt this moreso highlighting how the warp structure causes issues

the very campaign loop gandolph was mentioning

[drifting swift]

idk exactly

im just thinking of the watched warp loop like a surprise bag

[winter peak]

my favorite bandaid concept is to just have a bit of palette transition and have chunks of things from the connecting region sitting around the portal

so you can very visually identify which region a portal is going to by just being in the room

[drifting swift]

not very bandaidy but i still wish warps werent telegraphed with these portals to begin with

im still stuck on like the concepts of cool shadows imagery

[harsh tusk]

My issue isn't really lore but learning to navigate. It's super disorienting and unlike vanilla it's a lot harder to keep track of going between multiple regions

And the dlc requires that you continuously go back to the same regions over and over to Find the Thing or Find the Portal

[keen oyster]

Some of the level design makes it especially difficult to get a good grip on where to go
I know Im scapegoating again but. The Ridglings level design is super tedious at times 🥹

[winter peak]

maybe itd be cool if the structure linearly guided you through all necessary regions first (for spinning top quest) and then opened things up for the following sections

could be neat

[harsh tusk]

Could be neat

[winter peak]

and not in a super strictly locked manner, just that you'd put progression-breaking portals behind floating areas

things you could bypass with spear embeds and dedication

[harsh tusk]

I personally think watcher is stretched out wayyy to thin for what it can offer

Ripplespace is novel and cool for the duration of the spinning top quest which is like... 8 to 15 hours. And then the campaign continues and then you realize how empty and repetitive it is

[winter peak]

with 1.5 I think the prince stuff being cut entirely would be an improvement

it worked out alright in original release

[harsh tusk]

In the original release it was short enough that the flaws weren't super apparent to me at the time

I could ignore them

[winter peak]

maybe what I'd do is have a set of like 8 regions that you can go through and do spinning top quest, but have them designed in a way that they have inaccessible portions that float or ripplespace would unlock (you could have some BS like ripple vines or something you can climb with)

so once you finish spinning top's quest, you get the float and that unlocks more regions by giving you access to the higher hidden areas of the regions you already passed through before

[harsh tusk]

The true ending requires you to do all three endings first in the same save... It's so time consuming and the quests aren't different enough to be interesting

[harsh tusk]

This would be pretty cool

It's like... One of those metroidvanias people talk about

[winter peak]

I don't think prince would fit in very well in that but it might

[harsh tusk]

Maybe certain areas are opened up if they're rotted?

[winter peak]

maybe the first regions get rotted and you have to leave to the newer regions to avoid that rot

[winter peak]

could be

but that could lead players to being overwhelmed if they're already a player that takes things slow

maybe you should just make it so that meeting top in a region is what causes it to get rotted

because of the portal they open

and then that kinda tracks which regions you've already "completed" in a more intuitive way

while also making it tie into prince better

[harsh tusk]

True true

Rotting regions is one of those mechanics that also suffers from overexposure. It fits thematically but it ends up homogenizing regions

[winter peak]

rot gameplay is generally very samey

I do enjoy it when it has a big stealth focus

[harsh tusk]

Yeahhh

[winter peak]

like The Rot™ in downpour

[harsh tusk]

Rattlers are interesting mostly because of how they interact with other creatures but that's it really

[winter peak]

I think they executed that region pretty well 🙂
(although proto-rot tentacles are always BS and are never fun or fair-feeling)

[harsh tusk]

The Rot manages to break up the gameplay in an interesting way

Also the region is built around it, mostly

[winter peak]

imagine if rot creatures could access ripplespace, that would be interesting

[harsh tusk]

Ripplespace definitely needed more interactivity

[winter peak]

I think rot has a lot of things that could counter Watcher's abilities and would serve well as a "leave this region" indicator

[harsh tusk]

If watcher had half the amount of regions but every region had a ripplespace mirror, that would be rad I think

[winter peak]

especially with my idea of it only showing up after you find top

[winter peak]

that's part of what I think would be interesting with that Ripple Vine™ idea I threw out there a bit ago, you could make it to where you go through the same regions but gain more traversal into funkier bits with ripplespace

very metroidvania ofc

[harsh tusk]

It's strange that despite watcher's invisibility there's nothing really to interact with it. It's mostly a get out of jail card that's only compensated by cranking up spawns and creatures

Like getting slammed into a wall by blizzard lizard aura lol

[winter peak]

I think invisibility would be more fun if it was just worse

my idea was that it'd have a limited total amount you could use per cycle

and have that limit be like, 30s maybe? so you have to be careful with how much you use and when

you could also just make each use be shorter tho

[harsh tusk]

I'm conflicted because being able to stand around and watch creatures do their thing is interesting

[tribal swift]

Safari

[harsh tusk]

And a lot of spawns are kind of absurd otherwise

Once regions get rotted dealing with rot lizards the normal way is a bit baffling

[winter peak]

yeah I generally dislike high spawns anyways

no matter what the context is

I think it ends up highlighting jank more than anything else

I'd prefer fewer, more dangerous spawns

[tribal swift]

What if you got punished for toggling it on/off
As in you attract creatures to you when you are shifting in and out of invisibility

So you have to be smart with when you use it and play around with not having the time run out

[winter peak]

you can do a lot of work with just 6 yellow lizards in a big orb 🫴

[harsh tusk]

It's true

[winter peak]

the stun is already kinda doing that

but that only happens if you run out entirely

[tribal swift]

Stun is lame

Maybe just make the timer shorter overall

[winter peak]

I think the best counter would be more coding of creatures to react intelligently to you going invis

like, scavs would freak out and start throwing everything they have in your direction

[harsh tusk]

The creatures and environments of watcher are simply not balanced around watcher so there is a disconnect

[tribal swift]

“Why is something touching me but I can’t see it????”

[winter peak]

they should've made it so that you could still see creatures in ripplespace fully

maybe at like, partial transparency

[tribal swift]

What if when you go invisible all creatures do too and they all target you until you explode (very fair)

[harsh tusk]

Yeah!

[winter peak]

I do find it a bit janky when I'm looking for somewhere to go un-invis and all I have to go off of is some purple lights that could be batflies

[keen oyster]

Having ripplespace have unique things in it would make it a lot more interesting already
Maybe ripple portals that go places instea dof just Daemon portal #15 🥹

[harsh tusk]

Getting out of ripplespace and it's some daddy long cyan lizard

[harsh tusk]

I used to be really interested in those pulsing portals until I realized they just took me to daemon

[frigid hawk]

Ripple space is too boring and risky that I only have used it in 1.5 play through to access Daemon and not for anything else