Old Watcher FP Guide Coordination [Archived]

[lethal fossil]

👀

Watcher First Playthrough Guiding & Coordination

[umbral saffron]

Yep

[wraith creek]

Woh

[lethal fossil]

noice!

Player Helping Guidelines

---

1. Avoid giving the player information that has not been asked for, particularly if it is something that the player could find enjoyment in discovering for themselves.

• Non-intuitive information (such as ||swimming mechanics|| or ||downspears||) can be more freely given to the player to help them avoid frustration.
• If the player is clearly stuck, information in the form of hints is helpful and sometimes needed, but it should be something the player chooses to view.

2. Avoid guiding the player with the specific intent of pushing them towards or away from a particular route/choice! There is no "Right Way" to play Rain World.

• The uniqueness of each first playthrough is part of what can make them so special, and trying to push the player into a narrow range of decisions can be harmful to that.
• One particularly common instance of this is ||Eating the neurons in LTTM.|| Although it can be tempting to guide players towards a particular choice in this case, not interfering with the player's decisions or implying a correct choice is the right thing to do.

3. The enjoyment of the player should take priority over any other guidelines.

• If a player is considering giving up or seeking out external information sources due to a struggle they are having, then relaxing on spoilers and giving more direct advice is better than trying to keep to strict rules and causing them to quit the game entirely.
• This can apply in reverse as well! If the player is in a good flow, guidance and information is not needed and can do more harm than good.

Hint Tips

• Any new information in a hint should be given in spoiler tags, as the player should choose to see the information per guideline 1.
  "Major Hint:||Mobile creatures|| may be useful in crossing that gap in Sky Islands."
• If you're unsure how much help a player needs, consider giving multiple levels of hints in one message!
  Minor Hint: Grab, eat, and throw everything to see what you can do!
  Medium Hint: ||Other creatures may be more adapted to the environment than you; see if you can take advantage of that!||
  Major Hint: ||You can do X!||" (to be used sparingly)
• Hints can be phrased as questions to make players consider the answer without being given it.
  "What do you think X is trying to do?" instead of "X is trying to do Y."
• If you can't think of what advice to give to a player, see what others have done in the past! You can ask directly in a first playthrough channel, or search message history for relevant phrases. (Pinging the First Playthrough Helpers role is also a viable option in the case that the help is time-sensitive, even if you are one yourself.)

Commonly Useful Tips

• "Grab, eat and throw everything you see, in that order."
• "You can always go the way you came, if you're feeling stuck."
• "The map shows the true layout of your surroundings, even when you can't see it."
• List of useful tips by Aeter
  (ping me if you think of any other good widely useful tips!)

POLICY: when a spoiler first message is seen, delete and repost, then pin your own repost of it.

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thamks

[wraith creek]

XD

[wraith creek]

MAJOR SPOILERS FOR WATCHER ENDING, DO NOT CLICK IF YOU HAVEN'T COMPLETELY FINISHED THE DLC

||Current knowledge about how to spread rot through regions to get ending 2, now updated with code knowledge!!||

||To infect a region, it must be connected by a rift to either a Sentient Rot region (the 4 vanilla rot hell regions, Unfortunate Evolution, and Outer Rim) or to an infected room in a different region.||
||You can create these connections, or the rot can spread on its own through prexisting connections.||
||Every cycle, there is a 35% chance for an infected room to become more infected, and a 25% chance for it to spread through each pipe connection.||
||Rot can travel either through gates created by watcher, or through prexisting gates. It will only move through when watcher travels using the rift.||

||Current theory: After some time, the rot will begin to spread in your starting region as well.||

||Efficient method to spread rot||

||Take a Karma flower from throne, and enter your rotted region. Go to a room with no rift that's infected with rot, and use your warp to a new region. Shelter in the new region to lock in the rot, then go back to throne (by going backwards along your path) for a new karma flower and repeat.||

[wraith creek]

Extra spoiled so noone just spoils half the dlc accidentally

[umbral saffron]

Pinned: https://discord.com/channels/291184728944410624/1352430812519333940

[lethal fossil]

feel free to bring whatever resources you need here

[wary garden]

Is the original thread supposed to still be locked?

[wraith creek]

Level 49 btw

From that specific post

[lethal fossil]

nuh

can you not message there?

[wary garden]

Nope

[lethal fossil]

aight... it is to be fixed

[wary garden]

I haven't bought watcher yet will leave quickly after this

[wraith creek]

This is why I super spoiled the big post
Have fun watching when you get to it

[wary garden]

thank you

[lethal fossil]

hmmm it's so weird the perms are the same

[umbral saffron]

It's locked.

[lethal fossil]

should be good now?

[strong gust]

Yipee

[keen oyster]

So many threads already

[winter peak]

hi

[lethal fossil]

hi

[winter peak]

all of the thread locking was done manually during shutdown

so it all needs to be undone manually

wouldnt be surprised if there are a few stragglers

[lethal fossil]

didn't expect two layers of permission removal

[keen oyster]

I was gone getting groceries for like an hour

Question: How much of the vanilla spoilers do we wanna watch for in the first messages? Is it gonna be the same like with the MSC forum?

[winter peak]

hmm..

it does require completing basegame, but some people do skip those reqs with cheats (poor souls)

I'd prefer to juts kill all spoilers to be safe

[keen oyster]

Ight

[keen oyster]

I do genuinely think Watcher requires playing base game, even more than MSC does

A lot of the Watcher regions just... suck if you dont know what youre doing, especially if you dont know movement tech

[winter peak]

thought

what if instead of mentioning 2 endings, we use the terms "ending reached" and "100%'d ending stuff"

people that have both endings will know what it means, but people that dont wont realize there's a second one just from reading that

[keen oyster]

That could work
Working to get the other ending is jsut awful and I dont want to subject someone to that unless they figure it out themself

[winter peak]

yeah no I dont want to mention a second ending and get someone sucked into that whirlpool unless they're really dedicated

hence the wording to avoid mentioning it 🤫

tbh I think ending 2 is meant to be like, a secret

not something you're expected tog et

[keen oyster]

As muhc as I like telling people smth about multiple endings for the downpour stuff if they choose to go for that, because its reasonable to work towards, Watcher's other ending just sucks to work towards
Even if it is a secret ending, the process to get it takes way too long and was way too confusing until I saw someone mention something from the code that made it easier to understand

[winter peak]

I think it may end up getting better as we come to actually understand the conditions for it better

and thus are able to guide people better

[keen oyster]

Yea

The only thing I got from the code rummaging was rooms that have the ||"sentientRot" effect will actually corrupt regions through portals, and I assume thats the black dust/rot spores in the air in certain rooms||

[winter peak]

ye that's mostly understood

[keen oyster]

Cause warping from those rooms basically guaranteed the resulting region to corrupt if it wasnt corrupted already

[winter peak]

we just dont know, like

how many regions you need to corrupt exactly

[keen oyster]

in my experience

[winter peak]

or if it is even a number

[keen oyster]

Also yea

The only thing I know is ||every corruptable region - 1, which automatically excludes Daemon, Shattered, and Ancient, cause Fluffy got it without corrupting all of em, they left Verdant Waterways untouched and I left Stormy Coast untouched and it worked||

At at maximum its most regions

Knowing the bare minimum would be great for ease of getting it, tho

Even tho I dont think I need to spoil in here I feel a need to lmao

Just in case :ppp

[lethal fossil]

all but 4 (I checked during my gameplay)

[winter peak]

just having a proper goal, yeah.

having a more clear-cut goal would help a lot with watcher

in vanilla, you have the pebbles speech

in watcher... you've got pretty much nothing but vibes

[keen oyster]

Yeaaaa...

Honestly I think a lot of my enjoyment for Watcher came form the novelty of doing things for the First Time
After that, without any QOL stuff to make finding echoes easier or any hint of what youre supposed to do makes the enjoyment less easier to have

[lethal fossil]

I was away just for a few hours

[keen oyster]

This first day is going great

[keen oyster]

I love the Watcher regions! (Unfortunate Evolution vs Aether Ridge)

[devout salmon]

i wonder why they even give them codes that arent "room 1" "room 2" etc, like. it's less than 10 rooms why are some called b04

[winter peak]

could be that they grabbed the rooms from pebbles and modified them, and the name was kept

[devout salmon]

yes actually nice catch

[final drift]

doing some post-game stuff, ||I warped from torrential railways to verdant waterway then slept and it didn't corrupt, is there something I'm doing wrong?||

[keen oyster]

Look at pins

[final drift]

ah ty

[cloud cobalt]

What do I do in ||Ancient Urban||

[keen oyster]

||Explore :p Its not a dead end||

[cloud cobalt]

replying to me?

[keen oyster]

Yea

[cloud cobalt]

is it ||endgame||

should I leave

do I need to leave

I feel like I shouldn't

[keen oyster]

||Theres things to find||

[cloud cobalt]

ooookayyy....

[winter peak]

this channel isnt for first playthrough help, I recommend making a thread

in #1342915289595248701

@keen oyster (this is in the coordination thread 👻)

[keen oyster]

h

[sonic saddle]

i haven't finished my first playthrough yet. And i already know that they need to add a map icon for the ||region transition rifts||

like holy crap. some are just in the middle of rooms, and some dead ends just don't have one. how am i going to remember all this?

the regions i've seen so far are pretty cool though

[wraith creek]

Wtf

[keen oyster]

Day 1, epi c

[wraith creek]

There's already 2 more ahhhh

[winter peak]

#1356349349071945768 message @unique turret miiiight actually be a bit too direct unless they're stuck

most of the players end up realizing that's the goal but some also like to ignore that and play in their own way

[unique turret]

oh shit

[keen oyster]

Eveyrtime yet another forum is created I die a little /j /silly

(Theres like 80 forums now holy shit)

[winter peak]

maybe we should set the Close Time to be really low

so that all of the inactive ones stop showing up on the list

(it wont lock it, will just make it not be followed by anyone)

could lead to duplicate threads more tho

[keen oyster]

Yea myabe

About the topic of rot spreading, rot can 100% spread even without seeing the Throne

[winter peak]

it can spread from Unfortunate Evolution, yes.

[wraith creek]

this is not all of them

[winter peak]

🫡

[wraith creek]

it can spread both from the rot hell vanilla regions and UE iirc

I had it start in coral caves when exiting corrupted factory

[keen oyster]

Yea I figured
Mkaes more sense how my Sunlit Port and Coral Caves started randomly rotting, altho Sunlit was the more direct conncetion

If this person has been stuck in Coral for so long, an unknown amount of other regions might jsut be rotted already without their influence which. Is Game Design™️

[winter peak]

<@&1137895527271379055> Should we set the thread close time to be 24 Hours? (It is currently at 1 week)

It will make threads older than 24h automatically disappear from our following lists, but it could lead to some duplicate threads

6h is also an option, but I think less viable

would be a LOT of dupe threads caused by people losing theirs

oh wait no it's one hour

yeah not viable at all

1 hour, 1 day, 3 days, 1 week

[keen oyster]

Personally I would leave rotting to post-Throne shenanigans so this exact scenario doesnt occur

[keen oyster]

I think 1 day should be okay?

[winter peak]

yeah I think so too, just wanna wait for a few more opinions before pushing it

[wraith creek]

I would've made it either be much much slower pre-throne discovery, or even just only start spreading from there tbh
at this point it's very easy to spam teleports and go to rot hell a lot, then accidentally start a massive infection

without ever finding the important locations

#1356408861208088717 message i just called it murder juice because i fell in the first several times i entered the region within about 10 seconds

[keen oyster]

lol

I collapsed the felping category and everytime I click on a watcher forum it halves my channel scrolling bar

[keen oyster]

Yeaa
It was pretty unerving seeing regions rings turn purple while wandering but if you get stuck somewhere it just gets worse for you and theres not much you can do about it

Having every region be basically "pre-loaded" or smth before you even reach them doesnt help with being able to track rot spread

Yet another with this exact same issue

Someone contact the devs and tell them to fix the rot spread cuz this makes the slow n steady playstyle just become a huge kick in the knees

[wraith creek]

it really sucks, yea

rot spread needs to wait till you do something far more rotty to trigger it

[keen oyster]

Yeaa

[wraith creek]

it seems to start slowly just when you warp in initially which I think is what really hurts slow players

because if you're taking your time, you won't go to rot hell so you won't start it from there

[winter peak]

they've been getting general feedback, I assume they're aware of most player complaints at this point

[winter peak]

hmm.. idea!

maybe it should have a limit to how far it can spread from UE

like, only 2 regions away

and then the throne rot can spread far as per usual

[keen oyster]

Plz limit rot spread till you discover Outer Rim for the first time and warp out through one of The Rooms 🙏 this jsut makes the slow n steady approach far more punishing than it should be, which completely seperates it form the vanilla experience of being rewarding

[wraith creek]

does it spread from UE at the start? that wouldn't be how it's reaching coral caves and torrential railway really early for people

[winter peak]

I think UE is the only place with spores prior to throne

[keen oyster]

As far as I can tell, yes

[winter peak]

maybe cold storage has some?

I dunno

[wraith creek]

the rot hell vanilla regions can spread it

[winter peak]

there are no permanent portals to those

must come from the initial crossover...

[keen oyster]

My UE exited into Sunlit, which then had a portal leading to Coral and both those got rotted pretty early on

[winter peak]

that sounds like a bug

[wraith creek]

yes, but when you exit them it can start the spread

[winter peak]

ohh yeah that might actually be a bug

[wraith creek]

appears to be definitely intended

[winter peak]

it doesnt make much sense, since there's no flow

and no connection to the Hivemind™️

[wraith creek]

you exit an infected room into an uninfected room, that's how the spread works

[keen oyster]

As far as I saw, not really??
The ring didnt get purple until the Rot rot got into the region

[wraith creek]

i don't think that parts a bug at least?

yea, despite station annex being how it is it's not purple ringed

[winter peak]

yeh but usually the portal stays open, which means logically the spores are just flowing through

[keen oyster]

So I assume any region that has the capability to evolve to have the require trigger to spread will have a purple ring

[winter peak]

if you're just briefly crossing over it doesnt make much sense

[keen oyster]

And Cold Storage didnt for me

[winter peak]

I'll put in a report about it just in case, even if it probably isnt a bug

[wraith creek]

I'd say stopping UE from spreading at all till you first reach it would fix a lot of this early half the regions are infected, unless there's another mechanism infecting people's spawn region when they first warp from the infected vanilla areas

For Mae at least I'll explain that the rot is basically spreading through regions ahead of her now?

[keen oyster]

If you go slow and steady enough, ending 2 could just happen without too much interference

I think you need to visit the area itself a minimum amount of times until it can properly happen but

[wraith creek]

it would take forever
but it seems that way, yea

there might be enough regions blocked off by echo rifts?

[keen oyster]

Maybe, dunno how exactly echo rifts work tho
I know once youve done the thing the echo disappears and the rift become normal from what Ive seen

[wraith creek]

yea, once you've met it

[keen oyster]

So doing that could make it slightly faster but thatd still require doing all of ending 1 basically

[winter peak]

What should we tell people that are asking what to do with max karma..?

I just got lucky and got dropped off at terrace when I got max

[keen oyster]

Regions getting rotted before exploring them also just makes casual exploration a lot harder for no reason

[wraith creek]

you can either go through Daemon or across the Terrace gap

[winter peak]

ohh yeah Daemon totally exists to funnel max karma people to terrace

[wraith creek]

so I think we tell them to look for something they couldn't do before they had max karma

[keen oyster]

Ive had those hive things spawn directly on my way on pipes and struggled to get through em

[winter peak]

I didnt even realize that

[wraith creek]

yep

[keen oyster]

Ye that could work

[keen oyster]

Thats basically what happened to me lmao

[wraith creek]

I ended up random warping into Terrace

[keen oyster]

I got max karma and messed around, noticed I went to some other world and tried using it on those weak rifts, found they opened and ended up finding the portal to Shattered which dropped me off right next to the echo

[wraith creek]

Yea, I kept finding the weak ones and entering them hoping they'd send me literally anywhere else

[keen oyster]

Daemon being the sole connection to those weak rifts sounds like a nice hub area.. if it didnt have literally 3 rooms where you can make 1 rift per room and one room is already occupied

Im done felpering for tonight lol the watcher threads are being left unread till I get freetime tmr

[wraith creek]

your turn to have 60 new ones when you wake up

[keen oyster]

[last crane]

having trouble with what im supposed to do after finding the third echo

is it just a walk around simulator

[winter peak]

this channel isnt for first playthrough help- you should make a thread in #1342915289595248701

this channel is full spoilers

actually, imma make an executive decision

[winter peak]

Watcher FP Guide Coordination

(abstracting the name so less people click on it randomly)

[winter peak]

coordination for guides

[last crane]

oh

[winter peak]

we discuss how to help people here

[wraith creek]

yea, now it doesn't say Watcher First Playthrough Guiding

which might help a bit

well that didn't work

[sonic saddle]

Hold up, wait a minute
**It spreads? **
uhh how tf do i have it, you know
not do that
i wanna explore without the game getting slowly more unplayable the older my save is

I had a like over 100 cycle survivor save when i finally finished the game for the first time. I am too patient for that

oh wait i just realized
this is the server for guides, not for first playthroughs

sorry

[wraith creek]

@covert junco#1356256638541103114 message see here for instructions on how we usually do first playthrough helpering

[covert junco]

Oh, Ok, understood.

[wraith creek]

it's alg
we definitely appreciate help, but we do generally try to avoid specific directions

[covert junco]

[winter peak]

the title change is already doin work

[wraith creek]

updated rot spread pin with information from Randi btw
basically the same things to tell people, but a bit more on how it actually spreads

[winter peak]

@cobalt shadow

||You can create these connections, or the rot can spread on its own through prexisting connections.||
||Every cycle, there is a 35% chance for an infected room to become more infected, and a 25% chance for it to spread through each pipe connection.||
||Rot can travel either through gates created by watcher, or through prexisting gates. It will only move through when watcher travels using the rift.||

[cobalt shadow]

I dont see what you are trying to say. The rot still cannot spread through regions without you travelling through rifts

[winter peak]

it spreads within a region on its own

[keen oyster]

There have been 2 instances of players either getting stuck in/taking their time in Coral Caves as their starting region and it becomes infected before they do any other region exploring

[cobalt shadow]

ye ik, I was the first to dig that

[winter peak]

and the infection can spread from the first time you teleport out of an infected vanilla region, which can barely be considered an action of the player

[cobalt shadow]

yeah. Thats what I hinted Axo with

[winter peak]

anyways, my point is that regions do rot more and become more viable as you spend cycles there

as soon as one room is infected, passing the cycles infects the rest

so your comment was a bit misleading

[cobalt shadow]

So saying that staying in regions corrupts them would be better? since that was what the opposite would imply

[winter peak]

you have to start the infection in a region, but it can spread on its own once you do

(although we think it may be able to go through portals you arent even using, yeah?)

like, I use portal A and the rot jumps through portal B

[cobalt shadow]

It cannot

[cobalt shadow]

I am a bit lost on what you are trying to say tbh just tell Axo what you want to say, since I dont think much can really come up from this convo

[uncut folio]

has it been written down yet that the karma flower created rifts dont change if you die in a cycle and arent rng once a cycle starts

[wraith creek]

Randi did confirm it can't do that from the code, so at least there's that

It can have your entire spawn region infected before you even leave though, then spread everywhere you go

[lethal fossil]

uh yeah. The vanilla regions are being corrupted so it makes sense that the rot spreads on your first warp

[winter peak]

bad... game design... 😔

removing the spread from that initial vanilla warp would be good imo

[lethal fossil]

how so? Don't you like rot in your regions?

[winter peak]

you lose the ability to interact with the unrotted versions whatsoever if you like to play slowly and methodically

[wraith creek]

By doing that it then immediately punishes anyone who tries to be thorough, especially if they check rifts before returning to their original region
Thematically sure it's good, but in terms of not... actively screwing over a playstyle it fucking sucks XD

[winter peak]

and then the gameplay becomes a bit uniform by being Oops! All Rot!

[lethal fossil]

I think you can pretty much avoid rotting regions if you avoid your starting region

[winter peak]

if you understand the mechanic, sure

(you dont understand the mechanic if you're playing the game for the first time)

[lethal fossil]

the game intends you to spread the rot. Otherwise you could miss it entirely

[wraith creek]

The game also provides several other ways to start spreading the rot that don't happen the instant you warp into your first region

[lethal fossil]

also I had a ton of uncorrupted regions during my ~100 cycles playthrough so it's more or less fair

[winter peak]

part luck, and part speed

it depends on how long you stay in your first region

[lethal fossil]

how so?

[winter peak]

if you stay long enough for it to cover the whole region, it'll follow you to the next

[lethal fossil]

hmmmm I see

[winter peak]

I didnt personally hate the rot stuff, but it heavily dampened a lot of people's experience

[lethal fossil]

takes some significant time nonetheless

[wraith creek]

I had around half of them corrupted 70 cycles into my playthrough without ever spreading it intentionally

[winter peak]

and I think it spreading early makes the prince thing kinda confusing

[lethal fossil]

the rattlers

[winter peak]

because you're less likely to associate the rot with the throne specifically

[wraith creek]

Fortunately managed to explore every area properly without it being rotted byea

[lethal fossil]

yeah. I barely noticed any corruption before I went for the second ending

the most noticable was the coral caves (what a surprise)

[winter peak]

the big thing with the rot is that it is destructive to methodical playstyles early on, and punishes people that like to spend a lot of time exploring by making their exploration less interesting

if you're bad at the same and take a long time to get out of a region, the game will actively make the region harder

[wraith creek]

For me I'd very much noticed it spreading through notably Badlands and Fetid Glen (2 regions connected to the Throne which should be how it works!)

[winter peak]

it makes the game harder for unskilled players and easier for skilled players

[winter peak]

(it's important to note that anyone who has completed 70/70 challenges is in like, the top .01% of RW players skill-wise)

a lot of my issues are things that I've picked up from other players' issues

[wraith creek]

Yea, I personally wouldn't have an issue with how rot spread works if I hadn't seen so many other people have issues with it

[final drift]

post-game stuff ||I'm trying to infect badlands for the second ending, I was taking the route of waking up in throne > cold storage > karma flower warp to badlands, but after a few failed attempts it started bringing me to a completely different region despite making the warp in the same exact spot, is it just random chance where you get warped to from cold storage or something?||

[wraith creek]

This channel is for coordinating guiding, not asking for help
#1342915289595248701 is where you should go for spoiler free help

[winter peak]

maybe we just need to name this thread something ridiculous

The Council Of Elders

[final drift]

my bad, didnt realize I was posting in the wrong place

[winter peak]

ur good, dw

how did you discover this thread? ✍️

[final drift]

idk tbh my discord was just on this channel already when I clicked here

[winter peak]

😟

are people being sent here via gremlins in the discord programming

[unreal spoke]

I cannot see any other threads

[winter peak]

#1342915289595248701 is the place

[keen oyster]

I wish muting the fp channel actually hid all threads from view but I can still see them when people talk in them when I dont want to focus on felping

[celest tundra]

felping

[keen oyster]

Thinking about submitting a bug report on the screaming hives that spawn in rotted regions
Cause Ive seen them spawn in such highly inconvenient places it makes it extremely difficult to get past them and they basically completely block pathways if they spawn in a bad spot

[strong gust]

I got sick of mine after I explored it fully and had it as the only rotted region for 90 cycles and noticed its rotted after like 80
And it turned rotted pretty late I think

[past sparrow]

question, is it legal to hand out the general echo locations of the new regions to players under a spoiler or is that just a highly illegal thing that should be avoided

[wraith creek]

Only given out if they're completely lost and can't find anything at all
Definitely not to be given lightly

(Note: this means actually can't find anything, not just caught in a death loop or exploring thoroughly without a rift)

[past sparrow]

understood

[devout salmon]

Whats the difference between lines and dotted lines one the region map?

[winter peak]

dotted lines are created I think?

[devout salmon]

Really? Are the ones you make with karma flowers permanent?

[winter peak]

yeah

[coarse egret]

relevant line code is lineSprite.shader = ((playerGenerated || oneWay) ? map.hud.rainWorld.Shaders["MapShortcut"] : map.hud.rainWorld.Shaders["Basic"]); in HUD::Map.WarpRegionConnection.InitiateSprites().

what this means is that dotted lines are either playerGenerated or oneWay, while solid are, not

for example, Unfortunate Evolution to Outer Rim isn't a dynamic warp, but it's dotted because it's one-way

[coarse egret]

they're not! they expire in 5 cycles
(the ones created in The Throne have an override to expire in 9999 cycles instead)

you can see this in Player.SpawnDynamicWarpPoint():
(placedObject.data as WarpPoint.WarpPointData).cycleExpiry = (flag6 ? 9999 : global::Watcher.Watcher.CYCLE_EXPIRY_PLAYER_CREATED_WARP_POINTS);
flag6 is a local variable whose name has been lost through decompilation, defined earlier as such:

bool flag6 = false;
if (room.abstractRoom.name.ToLowerInvariant() == "wora_throne05" || room.abstractRoom.name.ToLowerInvariant() == "wora_throne07" || room.abstractRoom.name.ToLowerInvariant() == "wora_throne09" || room.abstractRoom.name.ToLowerInvariant() == "wora_throne10")
{
    flag5 = false;
    flag6 = true;
}

CYCLE_EXPIRY_PLAYER_CREATED_WARP_POINTS is a static constant equal to 5, I presume they changed this around during playtesting for balance

[winter peak]

hey animoso could you edit in or seeking out external information sources after giving up in point 3?

[lethal fossil]

done! ✨

[past sparrow]

guys i wanna clear sum up

does coral caves have an echo

i didnt find it when i was exploring but multiple people say they 100% did

but no proof to boot

[coarse egret]

no

here's the list of SpinningTopSpots

[coarse egret]

rotted versions of vanilla regions have distinct handling where it picks a WarpPoint

[past sparrow]

thank ya!

[coarse egret]

notice no WRFA

[winter peak]

@craggy ibex this is kinda the purpose of that third stipulation (not getting onto ya or anything, just pointing out how witholding info can backfire)

sometimes you just gotta feed them enough crumbs to keep them interested

learning when someone is about to seek out the wiki is a very learned skill

[craggy ibex]

Why did you ping me here
They're talking about Downpour,,,
But I mean I guess you're right

[winter peak]

I jut clicked on the wrong guiding thread on accident

[craggy ibex]

Time to leave this thread so as a console player I don't spoil meself
I'll continue this in the MSC one

[past sparrow]

this is just vile

bro has that felper aura around him

[winter peak]

i'm pretty sure the OAOA is just laughter isnt it

[past sparrow]

it is

thats why im saying

poor man is just gonna wait for the whole campaign for the oaoaoa mystery to be explained

[past sparrow]

https://discord.com/channels/291184728944410624/1357146529412157472

would be cool if someone helped this man im going to sleep

[winter peak]

ill see what I can do

@placid wraith how is laughter connected to the ending?

[placid wraith]

You find out the echo is a kid when entering it’s room. If you put 2 and 2 together, the laughter makes sense as it’s a small child, which explains some of the dialogue and why it’s always giggling.

[winter peak]

I think you're kinda thinking backwards

maybe it would lead them to the conclusion that the echo is a kid, but if they can figure it out with that info then it's not really spoiling em

the laughter isnt like, a hidden detail

it's just something they didnt happen to catch

(I assumed the echo was a kid pretty early on)

[placid wraith]

Yup, but I’ve seen some people I’ve interacted with be surprised and reached this conclusion only after seeing it’s toys.

[keen oyster]

Funny thing I actually didnt see the kid room until after the bath when I did my playthrough cuz I didnt want to warp out of Ancient Urban yet

I geard the giggling and went "no I wanna explore more first"

I dont actually know what that dialogue is and the wiki wont be updating for a while longer so lol
Im not doing another entire playthrough just for 1 interaction

[winter peak]

pretty common from what I've seen so far in the threads here

[keen oyster]

Ive glanced around the threads a bit during downtime and I saw 1 screenshot of the echo in the toys room and went "huh"

[winter peak]

actually I'm misremembering, one of the cases I saw was on a side server

[keen oyster]

So uh Ill be waiting for the wiki update to see what that text is lmao

[winter peak]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qLkDh8wfeCMmRWJjTgVGIp08mCppuJLb7QOQ2NB7cio/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.8v5j8vquve0t

useful if someone wants the echo dialogue they missed or smth

[keen oyster]

Ohh

[winter peak]

pinned in watcher lore

[keen oyster]

I havent touched Watcher lore yet lol
Wanna wait till the channel is calmer for me

Level 62

[winter peak]

it is pretty interesting

Fun Fact: the big cylinders in the background of outer rim are called "starcatchers"

this sky texture seems to position outer rim as being near the edge of the sky itself

[wraith creek]

I occasionally pop in there but I'm kinda just only responding to pings while it's hectic

[keen oyster]

Everytime I glance in the channel like 5 people are talking at once
Im not big on huge activity xd

[winter peak]

supported by this file, which is called "firmament cloud"

(firmament being a big dome over the world)

[keen oyster]

Ohh

Would Outer Rim be like, on the edges of the big starcatchers or inside one
That one image of the Throne makes me question the positioning lol

[winter peak]

my guess is the "Outer Rim" of one 🙂

but there is debate.

[keen oyster]

Funny name

[winter peak]

we go on the top of one of those towers with a box, so that places us definitively either at the top of the rim or in the little city thingy below

some people think the throne is hanging from the edges in the middle of the starcatcher'w bowl

(note the branches stretching out to the side)

[keen oyster]

Reading the echo dialogue is nice
I sometimes just got ... for an entire interaction, not sure how intended that is considering how talkative they are

[keen oyster]

It does make sense, you cross one of those bridges to get to it

[winter peak]

it just happens as a placeholder when nothing else is chosen

since everything else is conditional as far as I'm aware

[keen oyster]

Huh

I got quite a few of those

Seems like it should be rarer I think, or just have something else besides dots maybe

[winter peak]

yeh, I hope they add a bit more

I honestly read it as the echo being like "oh wait fuck what's going on here" when you show up too much

because I got it like 3 times in a row following getting only proper dialogue

(this tied into my theory that we were somehow part of the echo's consciousness)

(like a counterpart to its being)

(this was not true)

[celest tundra]

i find this odd too

but the dialogue after "..." seems to be pretty normal

watcher truly feels like this

[wraith creek]

Hi FPhelpers have a map including whether a connection is oneway, from an echo, or two way, and which regions have echoes
Anything not on here is in fact random and can't be trusted

[wraith creek]

from speedrun server because of course speedrunners need maps

[past sparrow]

So saying that theres an echo in most regions is statistically incorrect, its closer to a 60%

Though i prolly shouldnt be counting evolution, daemon and urban into the statistic

[wraith creek]

there's 5 "normal" regions that don't have an echo, 3 of which are spawn regions

UE, OR, and Daemon are weird, and ST and AU...

[coarse egret]

60% is most.

Anyway, there are Echo spawns in 19 regions, excluding vanilla regions but including their rotten equivalents and ending-related spawns, out of 27 total regions.

Excluding rotten equivalents pushes it down to 15/23, and excluding ending to 13/21.
Daemon, Outer Rim, and Unfortunate Evolution may be reasonably excluded as Special Regions as well, for 13/18.

[past sparrow]

Huh, interesting

[past sparrow]

https://discord.com/channels/291184728944410624/1356787568007577651

this perse

there have been like 5 new people to the post after ive discussed some very late gamey things with fruity

[wraith creek]

You can direct them to make their own forum to ask questions instead of hijacking someone else's

[past sparrow]

^

https://discord.com/channels/291184728944410624/1357323526838943896 is this thread description a spoiler?

since its in the first 30 mins or so?

[wraith creek]

Hm
@keen oyster do we smite outside of outskirts content from watcher forums first messages? Idr what that consensus was

[keen oyster]

I think we still smite outside OS content? Just to be consistent

[wraith creek]

Yea, I agree
Always the risk someone playing surviv with watcher enabled pulls up the forum

[past sparrow]

okay but this is just

[wraith creek]

Exact same as any other region name in a first message, just in a different forum

(Along with "echo")

[past sparrow]

fair enough

wait yall smite "echo"?

[keen oyster]

Its outside OS content, yes

[wraith creek]

Oh definitely
That's directly talking about something from much later game

[past sparrow]

lemme give you a few posts with unspoilered echo

[keen oyster]

Ive seen some cases of people being confused in the early game even, regarding what to do

[wraith creek]

(Unless they're just using the word with its normal definition )

[wraith creek]

True, yea

[past sparrow]

https://discord.com/channels/291184728944410624/1357058847067340973,
https://discord.com/channels/291184728944410624/1357088324661285035,
https://discord.com/channels/291184728944410624/1357046608709157155,
https://discord.com/channels/291184728944410624/1356442430580326400,
https://discord.com/channels/291184728944410624/1356682494241542154,

these i caught for now

most of them are clean tho

https://discord.com/channels/291184728944410624/1357087841640779886

thats all i found

good job~

[celest tundra]

considering how much i watch spoiler i dont think i should make my own first playthru thread lmao

leave it to people that actually play it blind instead

[past sparrow]

should we spoiler stuff beyond the first msg that the op knows about alr?

[strong gust]

Spoiler tagging is used generally for hint and tip giving

If they 100% know about something you don’t have to spoiler tag

If you’re unsure better to just not say it

[past sparrow]

@keen oyster

HELP

https://discord.com/channels/291184728944410624/1357421021455716522

jesus christ that was 30 minutes ago

[dense oriole]

Map creator here - if anyone finds inaccuracies feel free to ping me and I'll make an update. I haven't verified every single one of these connections personally, this is another visualization of the game data extracted by shrubfromtomorrow.

[wraith creek]

is it worth it
is it worth it

[past sparrow]

question do we have the watcher music ordered somewhere?

[past sparrow]

@tropic ravine

woosh

[tropic ravine]

boioioooing

[past sparrow]

Imma need further consolation here, aeter believes my pfp is a watcher spoiler, frankly i doubt for a person with 0 watcher knowledge to understand it so should i change it?

[cold knot]

Hello

[winter peak]

it's just watcher with a karma flower, right?

[past sparrow]

it is

[winter peak]

seems fine

[past sparrow]

id say its fine too

[frank kraken]

my worry was that it was art i hadn't seen yet which I didn't want to see but ultimately it's not that big a deal which is why i said lol
should've been moer clear srry!!

[past sparrow]

oh xd

misunderstanding gameplay~

all good

[frank kraken]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1117259767375740960/1356236400458207262/SPOILER_27.gif

[keen oyster]

New issue

[past sparrow]

dont you get the ability to warp out via the throne?

[keen oyster]

By meeting echoes

[past sparrow]

mmm

interesting

[keen oyster]

Dont have anywhere else I wanna put this (not the spoiler chat) but here's my opinion of regions to the best of my ability of remembrance lol

All the middle ones are mostly just a standard feeling based on vibes

[winter peak]

desolate tract slander...

[keen oyster]

DT didnt really have much that really interested me

I could put it a bit higher but its pretty neutral

[winter peak]

this may be the most divisive tier list I've ever seen

[keen oyster]

Im not good at reviews lmao I jsut go on vibes

The vibes of FG are especially bad

[past sparrow]

HUH?!

im gonna ignore all the ones i disagree with at the shit tiers

but im genuinely surprised u put coral caves & shattered terrace next to silent construct and undergrowth

[keen oyster]

The vibes are good

Its better than a general neutral vibe

Unless if you want me to redo my list with all the regions Im generally neutral about cuz its a good chunk of em

It could also jsut be bias cuz Coral is the first new region I saw and all the like, 2 dozen new regions gets stale after a while

Until something stands out as generally unique in some fashion

I told yall Im not good at reviews I just judge based on my current mood and experience

[past sparrow]

question does the watcher play the dream when he has max karma?

[wraith creek]

oh no

[past sparrow]

https://discord.com/channels/291184728944410624/1358727493061709934

[past sparrow]

Is this the same outer rim issue as this?

[keen oyster]

Seems like it but Ive heard there is a permanent rift you can use to leave thats outside the Throne if you get there too early, I dont remember ever seeing it though so I cant help players find it until I look at the map :p

[past sparrow]

i see, thanks

[keen oyster]

We have yet another person whos gotten thrown into OR early

I think they need to prevent players from going there altogether *before K3 cuz going up the whole Throne just to get stuck in a deadend and have to abcktrack a bunch of rooms to get out is not fun

[winter peak]

🤔 what's the method to escape without portaling out, actually?

I forget

[keen oyster]

Presumably theres a permanent rift that has a random destination but Ive never seen it

I need to find the room number hold on

[winter peak]

there's nothing at the slime molds that I'm aware of

and you cant climb back up the tower

[winter peak]

OH, maybe it only exists at under k3..?

like, specifically as softlock prevention

that'd make sense

and explain why I havent seen it

[keen oyster]

WORA_desert6

Right next to the start tower that funnels you to the Throne cuz you cant go right from that area

[winter peak]

oh I see it on the map now

[keen oyster]

I couldve sworn that room didnt have a rift but maybe it is for softlock prevention??

[winter peak]

I can test it if warp mod cooperates

[keen oyster]

I swear I wouldve seen it otherwise but I dont remember one being there

[winter peak]

yeah I don't remember seeing it

[keen oyster]

It would make sense if tis jsust for softlock prevention in that case but... thats a LONG ways of backtracking from the Throne

You climb up the entire thing to be met with such weird and cool thing but because your there too early you have to backtrack 20 rooms

No wonder people get stuck there especially if they have too low of karma, how tf are you supposed to know to walk backwards the entire length you had to walk forwards for

[winter peak]

they want it to be a punishment of some sort I think

[keen oyster]

I guess I get that but... RW isnt really a good game for punishments like this

It kinda fucks with the entire premise of exploring to your hearts content where exploring too much just screws you over instead

[winter peak]

I just teleported there with ripple 1 and it's there

let me see with higher ripple

Ohhhh!!

I returned with ripple 3 and it's gone

@coarse egret is this known yet

[keen oyster]

[winter peak]

ghosted

[plucky anvil]

watcher five pebbles guide coordination

[pastel jackal]

Fifth playthrough Guide and Coordination

[keen oyster]

Watcher guude in forums got unpinned so.ehow :p
Im guessing its just discord being discord

[winter peak]

bump

[wraith creek]

[lucid seal]

[celest tundra]

🤨 a scale?!

[blazing trail]

I wanted to fphelp a bit even while i still didnt beat the watcher for now this is gonna be my only message

This thread has soilers in the description https://discord.com/channels/291184728944410624/1361094028640260166

Goodbye

[blazing trail]

I cant help myself
#1361333298692882473 message
(Mention of echoes giggling in the description)

<@&1137895527271379055>

I need more motivation to finish the watcher im pretty close i think

Then i can finally just do fphelping myself

[frank kraken]

felp

[blazing trail]

Five pebbsi help

[keen oyster]

This is a new one

[keen oyster]

Since 23848 isnt here and is busy Watchering I kinda wanna make The Chart but for Watcher creatures so we have some records for when they return

Id have to go through all the forums and shit which will take forever but I have time tmr after shopping to get some work done
I just need to get the code names for the creatures so I can organize them lol

[blazing trail]

@keen oyster i already knew this place

i should probably send my nicknames because i never said any of them in the server iirc

[keen oyster]

I dont wanna search through every forum lol I jsut went through a few and gathered some names I saw

Also including some of my own names from my documenting yippee

[blazing trail]

what is a pomegranate??? i dont remember it

[keen oyster]

The melon thing thats on the green vines

[blazing trail]

....THATS EDIBLE???

[keen oyster]

Yea

[blazing trail]

i was just grabbing onto them for more mobility

[keen oyster]

You have to fall on it from a height, hiding it with your head works better from some testing I saw? Then it breaks on the ground and its basically popcorn plant

Issue is a good chunk of them spawn over death pits so

[blazing trail]

[coarse egret]

more properly, you have to grab onto it when at a high enough velocity

[blazing trail]

thats goofy

[coarse egret]

so uh , grab onto them when pinwarping 💥

[keen oyster]

[blazing trail]

what is fire sprite larva

[blazing trail]

just do this

[coarse egret]

the boxworm edible thing

[keen oyster]

These guys

But edible

[blazing trail]

THOSE ARE EDIBLE????????????

they annoyed the hell out of me

😭

[coarse egret]

this will very likely run out of the message limit 💥 i suggest splitting

[keen oyster]

Honestly I didnt know you could eat them

[keen oyster]

True

[coarse egret]

not the moving ones, the boxworm ones

[keen oyster]

Watcher Nickname Chart WIP (Substituting until 23848 comes back!)

Indigo Lizard - Rattlezard, Gila Lizard, Komodo Lizard, Poison Lizard, Skink
Basilisk Lizard - Timezard, Poison Lizard, Karma Lizard, Toad, Brown Lizard, Poop Lizard
Blizzard Lizard - Icezard, Blizard, Cryolizard
Rot Lizards - (Rot Green, Rot Pink, Rot Blue, Rot White, Rot Black, Rot Orange, Rot Salamander, Rot Cyan, Rot Red, Rot Eel, Rot Strawberry, Rot Caramel, Rot Basilisk, Rot Blizzard, Rot Indigo), Corrupted Lizards, Rotzard, rotalotl, rotamander, leaprot, rotennae
Scavenger Templar - Karmic Scavenger, Gold Scavenger, Scavenger God
Scavenger Disciple - Karmic Scavenger, Gold/Blind Scavenger, Enlightened Scavengers, Scavenger God
Barnacle - Anemone, Shell Shocker, Hermit Crab, Crabs, Coral Pest
Tardigrade - Seabunny, Slugbunny, Nudibranch, Seapig, Worm, Chromaworm
Sand Grub/Sand Worm - Tripwire, Snake, Sand Fingers, Rattlesnake, Rattler, Sand Snake, Big Sand Grub
Locusts - Bees, Flies, Crickets
Fire Sprite - Hyper Wisp, Sparks
Box Worm - Sandpipe, Steam Worm, Steam Fan
Drill Crab - Drillwalker, Hermit, Drillmits, Engine Crab, Lawnmower Balls

Loach - Rainsquid, Isopod, Cyst Walker, Giant Ant, Scrounger, Bloat Deer
Rot Loach - Rot Rainsquid, Rot Behemoth, Big Rot
Small Moth - Baby Mird, Mini Moth, Pigeons
Big Moth - Mird, Angel Moth
Sky Whale - Whisker Whale, Squail, Aerokoi
Rat - Scavenger Ancestor
Frog - Toad, Horrid Frog, Sticker Frog, Dart Frog, Poison Dart Frog, Leech Frog
Bone Shaker - Rattler, Rattle Bugs, Conch Shell, Rattle Rot, Grabby Guys, Rattlesnake, Decay Guard, Rot Rattlers
Rot Worm - Corrupted Void Worm, Corrupted Worm, Purple Worm
Ripple Spawn/Ripple Jelly - Purple Void Spawn, Whisps, Ghosts, Spirits, Purple Whisps
Ripple Amoeba - Giant Purple Void Spawn, Killer Void Spawn, Whale Ghost
Spinning Top - Ripple, The Ripple, OAOA, The Echo, Spinny, SEL (Stealing Echo Locations)
The Prince - Throne, Rot Prince, Rot Guy, Rot Iterator, Roterator, Sunflower

Fire Sprite Larva - Worm Jelly, Steam Worm Eyes
Pomegranate - Gourd, Melon, Watermelon, Gooseberry
Boomerang - ...
Poison Spear - Poison-Tipped Spear
Rot Fruit - Corrupted Fruit
Rotcorn Plant - Corrupted Popcorn

[keen oyster]

Ill just do 2 messages for now
23848 handles Chart better lol

I dont want good names to be lost

[lucid seal]

i'll go through some threads later and see what i can find because i remember some cool names too

[keen oyster]

Community effort

[blazing trail]

whats a rot loach

[keen oyster]

Loach but rotten

[blazing trail]

whats a loach

[keen oyster]

The big thingies in Desolate Tract

[blazing trail]

oh

ive never seen a rotten one

[keen oyster]

They spawn in rotten GW if you manage to go there

For, some reason

[blazing trail]

whats a tardigrade

[blazing trail]

lol??????

fun fact

[keen oyster]

Bnnuy

[sonic violet]

Is just me or "Outer Rim -> Daemon" works in a weird way where is similar to Echoes (you unlock it from one side, but afterwards you can go back, since unlike the other ones it doesn't teleport you into the big monolith). And as such it would be more like "an Echo Warp"

[blazing trail]

i literally didnt go to any corrupted areas most of the time BECAUSE

IT TELEPORTED ME TO HI AT LEAST 20 TIMES IN A ROW

[sonic violet]

It may be Ripple dependant? Random warps have a ripple requirement to get send to "late game areas"

[blazing trail]

i got to my 1st new region at least 27 hours in

[blazing trail]

ohh those

[sonic violet]

Keep in mind OR has a system where it can force you to go there instead of a random Rotted Region

[blazing trail]

whats a leaprot

[blazing trail]

huh

[keen oyster]

A funny name for rotten cyans I made up

[lucid seal]

LOACHES?? I CALLED THEM GIANT ANTS

[blazing trail]

whats their real name then

[keen oyster]

Pretty much all my names for the rotted lizards are a combination of rot and theri name lmao

Probably just rot cyan

The rot lizard page doesnt really say much

Other than "phases" of rot for a lizard

[keen oyster]

New name

[lucid seal]

[blazing trail]

which one are indigo and basilik lizards

[keen oyster]

The purple lizard in Badlands and the lizards that affects time and poisons you in Fetid

[blazing trail]

the prince: big rot
rot pupae
boomerang
green grabby thing
annoying tiny robot
corrupted popcorn
poison tipped spear
insane echo
voidspawn
voidspawn
giant rot
rattle rot (bone shaker)
frog
rat
whale
big moth
small moth
big guy (loach)
drill crab
locusts
snake
poison sillies (tardigrade)
barnacle
scavenger
scavenger
rot [lizard name]
blizzard
poison lizard (badlands)
karma lizard (fetid glen)

[sonic violet]

Basically to make ending B easier, when you get some milestones (increase your max ripple or rot a bigger % or regions) the game will make sure the next rot warp gets you to OR so you can hatch Prince earlier and/or get one of their new dialogues

[blazing trail]

oh thats really helpful

[keen oyster]

Heheh names

[sonic violet]

I think after Ripple 3, every 2 new levels (echoes) you get a free trip to OR

then is a free trip each time Prince gets new dialogue (% of rotted regions)

[blazing trail]

i called the badlands one poison lizard because i assumed they made everything bright and colorful in the watcher poisonous

and because locusts didnt follow me when i was covered in them

[sonic violet]

Indigos are most likely poisenous, but it don't afect Watcher by licking its outside

[blazing trail]

i dont think you would be able to eat it either

maybe if it licks food and you eat it if thats even possible

would be a cool interaction if they did that

[sonic violet]

You eat rotted food a lot XD

Watcher is built different I guess

[blazing trail]

rotten food is different

its not poisonous

[sonic violet]

Only Tardigrade and smelling Basilisk "aura" for a while can poison (and end up killing you)

and unless it kills you resting a bit (or using Dr. Frog) cures everything

[blazing trail]

i hate dr frog

[sonic violet]

Say that to Pebbles

[blazing trail]

consumes my food :(

[blazing trail]

was it poisionous? no

was it destructive? yes

[sonic violet]

Say that to (MSC) Hunter

[blazing trail]

it was more like an infection

again. infection

[sonic violet]

<@&1134650487732457472> illness works a lot like Watcher Poison

Speaking of RWSC, in case somebody cares. In #watcher-server-challenges we use this 3 maps (I don't know if you have all of them linked somewhere here). They are useful for different things

WATCHER RESOURCES (MAPS):

• Watcher Interactive Map: Used to check enemy Spawns and Room Names
• Watcher 2D Maps: Useful to see ENTRANCES to new Rifts and Echo locations (it doesn't contain Rifts that need to be open from another region, for example by talking to one Echo / Getting ending A)
• Rifts between Watcher regions: Used to check the easiest way to move between regions and the "normal" path that you can follow if you ignore rifts and simply collect Echos when possible

[blazing trail]

forgot to say i called the golden scavenger or whatever its called karma scavenger

[keen oyster]

People generally have been calling locusts by their incode name evern if they dont know thats the actual name

[blazing trail]

they look like locusts

[keen oyster]

The Collective Locust Naming Hivemind

[coarse egret]

they have been calling them locusts months before the DLC was released

[keen oyster]

lol

The Collective Locust Naming Hivemind strikes again

[coarse egret]

the general consensus was that they're the end of cycle and I pushed back against that assumption

[keen oyster]

They were in fact much worse lol

The patch at least made em better and interact more iwht the environment

[blazing trail]

yk what i hate about them?

when you tp to badlands you literally die without being able to do anything

[sonic violet]

the problem is that we have 2 golden boys XD

[blazing trail]

with self warp

[blazing trail]

THEY ARE DIFFERENT SCAVS???

[keen oyster]

We also have 2 different sand worms

I never could tell a difference besides the 2 having different icons

[blazing trail]

[keen oyster]

Im just copy pasting the names cuz who else is gonna figure out that threyre different, they look the same

I just used karmic scavs as a general name for both of those lol

Theres also uh

[blazing trail]

watcher wiggle is real

[keen oyster]

"Sentient Rot" in the wiki
Which is just, when the Prince's rot infects other regions I think

[blazing trail]

how can you even tell its the prince's rot

[sonic violet]

Btw I heard a few people call:
Rat - Scavenger ancestors (I don't know what they see on them)
Ripple Amoeba - Killer Void Spawn
Spinning Top - THE ECHO / Spinny
Sky Whale - Whisker Whale

[keen oyster]

Scav ancestor is crazy

[sonic violet]

Yea, they see a brown mammal and say "Is that a Scav?"

[blazing trail]

i dont see it at all 😭

i called it a rat on first sight

[sonic violet]

They are the same but in child / adult form (like Noots). Child are food, adult are an enemy similar to pole plants

[keen oyster]

Ohh

[sonic violet]

The idea is you need to stand next to one, if it's a child you can try grabbing it (2 food pips) if it's an adult it may jumpscare you and kill you if you don't react on time

[keen oyster]

Interesting

I just tried running past them after getting jumpscared with a hostile one and assumed they were all hostile lol

[sonic violet]

then, they did their job correctly

[keen oyster]

I didnt even notice they had different icons until I saw someone else bring it up

I guess its kinda similar to the noodleflies but
I struggled to find food somewhat often in Badlands, relying on something players might not even figure out for food seems odd

[sonic violet]

Yea, eating snakes in badlands is a death sentence

you need to cloak or the childs see you and don't go nearby

if you have mud / lizard spit (btw Indigo lizard = Spit Lizard), I think they see you

and if not, you have a few seconds before Locust kill you

They are mainly for the cave Section (the Badland desert ones serve to jumpscare you with some adult at most) and Torrid Desert

[harsh notch]

bonq

im here now

goodness this place empty

[keen oyster]

Yo

[harsh notch]

[lucid seal]

not everyone got both endings yet so

[keen oyster]

The Watcher forums are beginning to get the treatment of Other Players Invading Forums to Ask Questions

[lucid seal]

yeah.. especially when the poster is on a topic their question applies to

[harsh notch]

yeah no i still havent got both endings- but i know what it is cause i wanted to mingle with people + i started contributing to the wiki, also i really dont like the rotted regions so i'd rather not do that

[harsh notch]

also unless ur talking about someone elses name for it, indigo lizor is very much not spit lizor- caramel is spit lizor

[lucid seal]

projectile spit, liquid spit

[harsh notch]

also why is eating snakes a death sentence

[harsh notch]

yea but caramel is called spit lizard in code

[lucid seal]

yeahh as cool as the rotted regions are i don't like going through them much either

[lucid seal]

especially with those things that vibrate when you get close and then grab onto you and move you becausethey make platforming impossible in some areas

[lucid seal]

PRIDE MOTHS

[harsh notch]

the what

[lucid seal]

the white things with the very purpleish rot tentacles when you get close to them

[harsh notch]

oh the rattlers

those suck

they purposfully drop you into death pits or drag you to other hostile creatures

[lucid seal]

one was near a pole once to get out of a water pit so i nearly drowned

[harsh notch]

there was one in the path to get over a pit of acid, and it didnt even touch me, i just tripped over it and fell in ._.

[keen oyster]

This was my experience

[lucid seal]

i'm surprised you were even able to move it at the end

i think i'd just give up

[harsh notch]

how'd u get the portal all the way down there- and where are you

looks like a rarefaction cell holder

[keen oyster]

Karma flower warp
Cold Storage

[harsh notch]

huh..

[winter peak]

hitting them with a rock or spear makes em a lot easier to get past for like 5+ seconds

[lucid seal]

that's good to know

i always assumed it didn't do much because it just bounced off

[harsh notch]

with the new patch yea

they used to just

sit there

[winter peak]

nuh uh I did that on release patch

it stuns then

and when stunned you can squeeeeze past easier

[harsh notch]

that was not my experience

[marble carbon]

amazing

now i can talk about how this

is the coolest thing ever

[lucid seal]

i love watcher

[winter peak]

the update is working already 😌

[lucid seal]

i was wondering if that was a new thing or not

surprised there's even a scav merchant in badlands because that room was empty when i went there

[harsh notch]

i distinctly remember watching to see how locusts would interact with other creatures and they didnt do anything

[keen oyster]

Do we need to spoil if people put like, "2nd ending journey" or smth in titles?
Cause some poeple might not know theres 2 endings

[harsh notch]

i'd say yeah, cause i for sure was suprised when i learned there were 2 endingd

[lucid seal]

i agree too

[frank kraken]

There was!

But there was no scav there for me

there was a singular spore puff which I assumed wasn't important because they didn't spawn normally in badlands like in farm arrays

So I assumed "hm that might work cuz they're insects? probably nott cuz they're incredibly rare in this region, i don't think the devs would make a rare item important to the gimmick of the region"

thankfully they made scavs hold them

makes it more clear they're intended to be used

[lucid seal]

yeah same for me and i was at max rep too, so i just thought it was a dead end room despite the lanterns

[lucid seal]

i had the same thought process

those sporepuffs all the way in torrid would've been helpful

[frank kraken]

[strong gust]

I would like to submit Enlightened Scavenger for the fancy karma shield scavs, Bees/Flies for locusts, Pigeons for small moths, Worm Jelly for the fire sprite larva and Grabby Guys for the rot rattling guys

[keen oyster]

[sonic violet]

They tend to not be there, if you wait for a few seconds they will appear back. They are probably on the den "restocking" after trading or something

[harsh notch]

i'd like to submit
rotzard for rot lizard cause its not on that for some reason-
toad for basilisk lizard
squail for sky whale
Scav God for templars and diciples
sand fingers, rattle snakes/rattlers, sand snake for sand grubs/worms
steam worm, steam fan for box worm
Dart Frog, poison dart frog, leech frog for Frog
Corrupted void worm, corrupted worm, purple worm, for rot worm
whisps, ghosts, spirits, purple whisps for ripple spawn
steam worm eyes or just eyes for fire sprite larva

[keen oyster]

[winter peak]

Basilisk- Brown Lizard, Poop Lizard

[keen oyster]

How much space does each edit take up the logs lmao

[winter peak]

probably a lot but I never look at edit logs ever

no one does really

[keen oyster]

Nice lol

I can add 1 name and itll take up half a screen

[winter peak]

oh yeah, rotcorn

is that an official name?

[keen oyster]

It was on the wiki when I looked for the names

[coarse egret]

the sprite name contains rotcorn plant

[coarse egret]

skink is alternative internal name for indigos, seapig for tardigrades
also ripple jelly is a specific type not equal to normal ripple spawn 💥
big sand grub is an alternative internal name for sand worms
rot behemoth/big rot for rot loaches as internal names

[harsh notch]

do the names have to be names that someones used a lot? or can it be like... silly names too

[harsh notch]

also scrounger for loaches

[wraith creek]

my submissions:
Loach = Bloat Deer
Prince = Roterator

[barren crag]

found a pipe that completely softlocks the rest of the cycle for me in ||rusted wrecks||, any way to get past it or should i just head the other way?

i've got a video but attachments are disabled here

[wraith creek]

This channel is for coordinating the people guiding others in their first playthroughs, not for directly asking for help in
You can make a post in #1342915289595248701 for spoiler free help

[barren crag]

ahhh

my bad!

[keen oyster]

Just keeping this here as a reminder for when they complete the campaign

[lucid seal]

[smoky patrol]

[blazing trail]

#1366178725028171817 message

How do i help here

im not sure if they have seen the manual rift tutorial

pretty new to watcher fphelping

@lethal fossil

[lethal fossil]

[blazing trail]

what do i tell them

her*

[blazing trail]

@keen oyster tardigrade name

Worms

[keen oyster]

Kinda thinking on what we could do for like, pinning Watcher FPers accomplishments

Like the vanilla forums have meeting Moon, FP, the echoes, the ending and milestones like all passages or whatever

Would we do like, each karma level increase or smth to track progress
Cause pinning smth like a player's first time getting to Throne paints it as important even tho they likely cant do anything there for now

[winter peak]

obviously endings

ability unlocks for sure

good to know what abilities they have

[wraith creek]

if they post screenshots of unfortunate evolution that's probably something to pin (somewhere obviously unique, but also indicates to other people that beat it that they'll probably be in outer rim after that)

[winter peak]

pinning throne when they havent made any progress there might be too much of an obvious "this is important"

[keen oyster]

Yeaa

[winter peak]

I like this as an easy pick

[keen oyster]

UE lead me to Sunlit Port so its not a guarantee theyll be in OR by that time

[winter peak]

maybe just outer rim at all

if theyve found outer rim theyve found the throne unless it's a special circumstance

(super low ripple)

[keen oyster]

True

The map still shows the low karma exit rift even if you cant access it from some screenshots Ive seen

[wraith creek]

[keen oyster]

Ill grab a clip of it cause It also flung me coincidentally lol

Literally wouldnt have a clip of it if it didnt fling me for whatever reason lol

Sunlit did end up getting corrupted after that

[coarse egret]

it's not intended to send anywhere besides WORA

[keen oyster]

Would the code have been any different day 1? Cause I played the entire day and the post-release patch only got downloaded when I was done

Checking my documentation doc and I didnt even see Outer Rim until Day 2 after I took a trip to Decaying Tunnels

https://docs.google.com/document/d/15DpEXaaGZOjo75_YV8p4S79zpOwXz6bXHVxqIoM-reI/edit?usp=sharing My Entire Journey lol I havent posted it yet so I might as well now

[coarse egret]

i have a 1.10.0 backup of the code preserved, i'll see

well would you look at that!

oh and I just remembered patch notes exist

[coarse egret]

anyway yeah it was broken on day 1 lol @keen oyster

[keen oyster]

Well that explains that lmao

So players are supposed to always go to OR from UE, okayy
So my SP got rotten cause I gamed too hard before they fixed it lmao

I got a funny fling out of it so

[crystal sparrow]

can't believe I'm a true watcher fan (got through UE before the warp got fixed)

[coarse egret]

on Watcher's release I just quickly exported the decompiled code and went on to do uni work for the rest of the day, waking up to the next patch lol

[keen oyster]

lol

[harsh notch]

ue warp was broken?

[lucid seal]

yeah

either the portal didn't work or it sent you to the wrong location apparently

[coarse egret]

^

based on the code, it basically just interpreted it as a normal undefined warp

this would make it so that a normal dynamic warp target will necessarily be chosen

[keen oyster]

So I got Sunlit Peak and it got rotted lmao

[coarse egret]

because WSSR is a sentient rot region, warping from it spreads sentient rot

[keen oyster]

UE and OR must be the same "region" in time but in different places then?

Cuz if sentient rot is ONLY in TR and UE until its spread

[coarse egret]

the 4 rotted equivalents of vanilla regions are also sentient rot regions

[keen oyster]

Ah

sentient rot is weird why cant it be consitent

Wheres my side-by-side region worldbuilding

[lucid seal]

do you guys think this is too spoilery for them to say? or does it seem fine

[frank kraken]

I mean that just explained the entire thing lol

I think not answering it at all wouldve been fine? Cuz they didn't ask what the lights were, or why the creatures were missing

They'd have learned it eventually lmao

[lucid seal]

okay because that's what i thought but wanted to be sure since i'm new to helping thank you

[frank kraken]

Npnp

New felpers in the making are always welcome

[sonic violet]

Are all prologe regions Rotted? In case you get ripple 3 and create a portal from HI / SU would it rot the other regions?

[frank kraken]

Elpers

What are the landmarks we should pin in the forum

Idk if that's been discussed yet

[frank kraken]

Sounds right

Rotting a region is still RNG but the regions should be able to deliver it, that's why rot spreads from Prologue to the first region you enter

[winter peak]

was briefly discussed the other day but we didnt come to many conclusions

• endings
• new ripple abilities
• first outer rim visit (?)

first outer rim visit is there just so we can figure out if they went to throne without directly spoiling that throne is significant by pinning the first thing they post from there

[coarse egret]

they aren't in the hard-coded list of SentientRotRegion, and so therefore use the default behaviour of rotting only if the warp point's room is rotted

[marble carbon]

this is something that st would say

[lucid seal]

OAOAOA!!

[lucid seal]

@keen oyster name for the sky whales

aerokoi

[prisma linden]

[Messaging here so it gets preserved amongst my used channels]

[winter peak]

[Replying here so you get pinged for no particular reason]

[coarse egret]

[Replying here without ping for no reason]

[gaunt crag]

OAOAOAOAOA

[lucid seal]

SO PEEPING!!!

[gaunt crag]

DO YOU EXCRETE, LITTLE ONE?

OAOAOAOAOA YES YOU DO

[gaunt crag]

also is OAOAOAOA with no other context count as watcher spoiler

[compact harness]

seven prancing pilgrimage (just needed to join this thread)

[compact harness]

it would depend on if you know what the context is beforehand I feel

[lucid seal]

just to be safe, i consider everything i know is related to watcher a spoiler when talking in non watcher channels

[covert totem]

SO PEEPING OAOAOAOA!! But I suppose you must peep.

Guess who is starting to felp here (only took 30 hours to beat watcher hahahah)

[lethal fossil]

[lucid seal]

we definitely need more watcher felpers

[covert totem]

I will do what I can (I don't have rot ending yet so I still gotta be careful lol)(update we did that too)

[gaunt crag]

ok

[prisma linden]

I have NEVER SEEN someone arrive at signal spires at just 2 ripple

https://discord.com/channels/291184728944410624/1371749688516149308

[covert totem]

what

[prisma linden]

This is watcher equivalent of survivor accidentally beelining instantly to filtration from outskirts >> drainage

[lucid seal]

me either

when he initially said he was in a region like sky islands i immediately thought of signal spires but there was no way

and then he really did end up in signal spires

how would you even get there so early on

[gaunt crag]

yup

[gaunt crag]

OAOAOA

[umbral saffron]

@winter peak Also talking of spoiler rules, would making a separate policy far watcher make sense with no discussion past hydroponics?

[winter peak]

for watcher, I'd probably say that + maybe no MSC?

any vanilla stuff seems like fair game

[umbral saffron]

not sure where the rule would apply tho with the exception of pure watcher channels?

*spoilerless

[winter peak]

it would exist solely for #1342915289595248701

there isnt anywhere else that would need it

[umbral saffron]

So it would be temporary only till it gets merged in dlc-FP.

[gaunt crag]

wait whats the yellow ring around some regions in some people's map for

is it OAOAOA location

no it's not someone dont have verdent waterway with the gold circle thingy

[coarse egret]

spin spots, needs discovering shat to appear

[gaunt crag]

ohhh

so i presume they just didn't discover spinning top in verdent waterways

[coarse egret]

if spin is in the region, it will necessarily have have the outline as long as you've been in shat at least once

[gaunt crag]

o ok

[lucid seal]

shat

[gaunt crag]

Chat is the different starting region count as spoiler for someone who has been sent to the watcher world

[lucid seal]

took me a second to realize what region you were referring to

[gaunt crag]

lmao

[lucid seal]

i think it depends on if they want to replay watcher at any point or if they ask about it

[gaunt crag]

ok

[coarse egret]

@lilac lotus the redacted watcher thing is pomegranate

[lilac lotus]

Ok, thanks!
(Gonna leave this channel for now to avoid spoilers )

[blazing trail]

should we tell her that theres another ending

[covert totem]

Too late, but I'd say no lol

[prisma linden]

I don't see why not?

They can't telepathically intuit there's another ending

There's zero way to naturally infer that unless they'd by chance found OR before

And l don't think they had

[covert totem]

If they find OR then yeah, there's lore to be had

But in general, the rot being distributed around would be a sign

Since the explanation for that IS Outer rim

Instead of directly stating there is a second ending imo it'd be better to NOT say "First ending"

And just kinda leave it as "there's more to see even after the ending"

I haven't been active in that thread though so I wouldn't directly know what would be best for op

[lucid seal]

this is how i've been doing it, usually if people have seen outer rim and the throne they feel like something is incomplete there

i feel like saying there's another ending can be a little too direct sometimes

i'm sure if they haven't found OR yet they'd explore more and run into it eventually

[prisma linden]

I do think there's some ambiguity with that which may not encourage people very much, for example someone with decent experience with previous campaigns may interpret "more secrets in watcher" as something as meager or easter-eggy like bringing moon her cloak, instead of an entire secondary plot and ending

So being a tad too vague might not motivate someone enough to find the Secret worth playing multiple more hours instead of just googling a video

[harsh tusk]

i'd rather push people to explore the second ending than leaving it so vague that people don't really try

[lucid seal]

it really depends on the person, then, and how much they've seen already (like outer rim for example)

some people as soon as seeing they have to spread rot immediately give up and google a video anyway

[prisma linden]

Like moi

I haven't played the prince ending in person yet

Though that's for my own reasons

(I don't want regions getting permarotted on my savefile )

[lucid seal]

real..

i plan to replay for that reason

[prisma linden]

They're very nice to explore without ruinous purple palette

[gaunt crag]

thing is people kinda uhhh dont want to rot regions

ig maybe if they repeatedly visit OR

and meet the prince

several times

[lucid seal]

i've seen this a lot too

[prisma linden]

Visiting OR blind is surprisingly difficult

[gaunt crag]

yea cuz rot = bad according to almost everyone coming from DP

[harsh tusk]

thankfully, rw comes with 3 save slots

[lucid seal]

is it?

[gaunt crag]

wanting to revisit it is very difficult

cuz u kinda have to deliberately go there

or through UE

[lucid seal]

okay, that is true

[gaunt crag]

but after the first time people dont wanna revisit a place they've explored

[prisma linden]

The only natural entry to it is unfortunate evolution, which is a lucky wucky place to find by chance (which l did at least)

[gaunt crag]

especially since its the same thing every time

aka 5 min walk left or hell platforming for no reward

[prisma linden]

The default way then is bad warps which a substantial amount of players NEVER do

[gaunt crag]

same i found it in station annex

[gaunt crag]

or they do it out of curiosity and get punished by infested waste

[lucid seal]

to many i've seen it feels like it has more though when they've been there and see the giant rot bulb

[gaunt crag]

hmmmmm

ok fair i can see that

[prisma linden]

Either they neglect the tutorial due to tunnel vision (saint ascension powers 2.0 )

[gaunt crag]

throne does kinda scream "this is important area"

[gaunt crag]

real

[lucid seal]

though it's not obvious at all how to get out, most threads asking for help is because they think they got softlocked there since it's not obvious how to leave

both under and over karma 3

[prisma linden]

Or they see it say "bad warp is unstable and dangerous" and just take that at face value and decide "l will NEVER do it because you DIE from it"

[gaunt crag]

yea OR has really bad game design issues

[lucid seal]

and the amount of people i see that die to the rot on the top of the throne because they're confused, and have to do it all over again

[gaunt crag]

from "the fringe is already too unstable" and the right side that serves no purpose and the weird map thingy in the throne that get people to jump in it confused

oh and the unnecessarily long walk every time you visit OR

[lucid seal]

watcher? more like... the walker

[gaunt crag]

like first time it's atmospheric, subsequent times it's repetitive

[gaunt crag]

no way it's spearmaster but without the pearl

[prisma linden]

The amount of people who fail to understand the flower pockets so they WALK back out to the last shelter in the middle of OR

[lucid seal]

yeah, even if the area changes with the spread

they should add an OR portal that teleports you to the throne on later visits like that one bait portal on the right side

[prisma linden]

The amount of people who execute everything correctly and create a warp and then DIE in the next region before saving everything

[lucid seal]

i remember that one person we advised that did that

[gaunt crag]

yes

[lucid seal]

i'm glad it's not that way with echo warps at least

[prisma linden]

If l could submit an idea of a patch it'd be for the flower cave warps to count as a sleep, just like spinning top warps

[gaunt crag]

so true

[gaunt crag]

yes

also we gotta do smth about the right side of OR man 😭