First Saint Playthrough -- Finished and Theorizing

[topaz kettle]

On the next cycle, I tried getting to the echo. Took the whole cycle. Upon the cycle reset, I figured it would be easiest to try and make it down to Farm Arrays and take the route most familiar to me to... I think FP kicked the bucket, but I will go investigate where his superstructure is. (I think Shaded Citadel. A friend told me that Shaded Citadel is dark because of his superstructure's shadow, which is friggin neat. If that's the case, he would've most likely fallen onto it.)

Anyway, case in point, I only died twice: once in front of a lantern (freezing to death, presumably,) and the other being one shot by a yellow boi. I swear I can backflip

Tomorrow, the goal is Farm Arrays. I may restart a lot as I just don't want to deal with restoring karma if I die to get through that gate.
(It just occurred to me that I might not be able to get the karma for a Shaded Citadel route. The one from Sky Islands to Farm Arrays is tier 3, which I can have. The one leading to Farm Arrays from Outskirts needs Survivor, so I'm just gonna hope that it doesn't require Survivor on the other way too. (I will open my Artificer campaign and check since I'm near there.) The Outskirts to Industrial Complex is also tier 3 both ways, so I just have to hope I can either find another route, an accessible echo, or I dunno a place to cry.)

Idk lmk if that's tmi I just want to establish how much or how little thought I put into this game lmho

Sorry one more thing and then I'll shut up.
I would say my lore knowledge is pretty extensive by now regarding the timeline, but things Post-Rivulet, Pre-Spearmaster, and things regarding the ancients I just know nothing about, and maybe I'll find more from Pebbles when I completely my pearl hunt for him. We'll see

[unreal tartan]

if you weren't allowed to document runs that weren't the first scug you played then no tags other than monk and survivor would exist

[zinc pasture]

Reposted for spoilers

Am I allowed to document my first Saint run here even though it's not technically my first downpour scug?
If no, I can delete this etc etc... If yes... oh boi
I started yesterday, despite telling myself that I'd complete the collection. (Every colored pearl has been found and read by both Pre and Post-C Moon, including Hunter and Rivulet's. I just need most broadcasts and most pearls to Pebbles.)
After dying for the fifth time as Spearmaster trying to get broadcasts in LttM I kinda just said "screw it," and started Saint.
Unlike my other campaigns, I'm going to rely fully on my knowledge of Rain World from playing. No wiki maps, no looking up creatures, and no.... gahhhh no passages.

Here's how it went, and I will continue tomorrow:
Got to the shelter. It took me a while to identify where I was, but once I fell down by the scavenger I was like "ah. Sky Islands."
I grabbed what had blown off the popcorn plant and the pearl that is supposed to be dark purple. The pips below my food are clearly some sort of temperature gauge, and so is Saint's body. After learning this, I customized the color to be a little darker so the temperature change is a little clearer for me. I also learned that lanterns warm you up, albeit slowly so I need to be in a safe place+lantern. Before sheltering, a winged centipede went in there and wouldn't leave, so I slept with it. It died. I guess I just cuddled it to death

[fast grove]

you are allowed document all different scug's firstplaythroughs

[topaz kettle]

Thank you, sorry about the spoilers. I wasn't sure if I could document it as I have been playing Rain World for a while now and I don't quite feel like a new player anymore...
I might still accident post spoilers, and if so, I'm really sorry I swear it isn't on purpose 😬

[unreal tartan]

it only counts as spoilers if it's in the first message or in the title

because those can be viewed by people outside of the threa

d

[topaz kettle]

Ohhhh I see, thank you!

[unreal tartan]

if someone clicks on your thread and gets spoiled then it's their fault

[fast grove]

by clicking they have accepted the terms and conditions of the thread and may get spoiled :D

[unreal tartan]

[topaz kettle]

Okie! Sounds good. I am excited to find more lore ngl, my obsession with these weird little biomechanical remnants of an ancient civilization is a little concerning... :>

[fast grove]

how much gameplay hours do you have(I will determine by that how concerning it's :> )

[topaz kettle]

On all campaigns or just in general?

[fast grove]

overall

[topaz kettle]

190 hours in the span of a month

[fast grove]

not concerning

[topaz kettle]

Yet

[fast grove]

or well maybe a lil bit

[hearty socket]

In the span of a month... 190 /30 ~= 6 hours a day on average? Seems concerning to me.

[fast grove]

I compared it to my average of 250is hours it does not seem that concerning .-.

[hearty socket]

6 hours is 25% of the day.

Assuming a a recommended sleeping time of 8 hours, thats 37 percent of the active day. So yes, it is a bit concerning, especially if it is long session.

[topaz kettle]

Some of this time is spent in Safari using the actual thing as drawing reference (such as Moon and Pebbles and Lizors)
This is also from screen time, which on my device is rarely accurate.

[topaz kettle]

I'd say maybe like 20 or so hours in Safari alone. That's why I originally asked if my scug playtimes were wanted as opposed to game time.

[topaz kettle]

Welp, I already died again to the same lizards. I keep picking up spears thinking they will be of use to me. It doesn't seem like rocks stun for long at all, either.
While I occupy my time, here's my theories based on the opening sequence:
Saint is iterator-made, and has already been in the Void. So, I'm going to take a huge shot in the dark and say maybe Saint was made by Sliver of Straw?
I don't know a lot about her, since that particular pearl with Moon's essay isn't available in Arti's campaign. Pebbles talks a bit about how he admires her, but not a lot. (If there's specific pearls or broadcasts talking about those, feel free to tell me which ones so I can go after them and have Pebbles read to me/listen to the broadcast.)
Saint's purpose? I have no clue. I can only guess I'm here to help the angsty teen (if he has enough neurons to talk) in some way, perhaps finally help him succeed with his personal ascension. Saint... seems to be an expert on that. Gut feeling, I guess. As for Moon...? I dunno, seeing her makes me happy enough

Bro

There's a few niche things I've noticed, which kinda add to the whole experience:

• you can hear wind instead on rain on the shelter screen
• there's a water drop sound when moving up in karma (and I think down too)
• lizards have more fur. It's adorable honestly
• as the blizzard gets worse, the backdrop for inside areas visibly show it. It's sick ngl and I really shouldn't spend time watching it

Made it to Desolate Fields, finally 🙂

The weather is no excuse for me to stop paying taxes

[rough silo]

the scavs require a price

[topaz kettle]

Made it to Suburban Drifts. Luckily the gate didn't require survivor 🙂

One thing I'm also noticing is weird noises and flashes at the beginning of each cycle. They've gone away after visiting echoes. I think maybe the game is telling me that there's an echo in the region?
That or I've got hunter cancer

Ngl I forgot how dangerous these dudes were

Because my friend Bernard is the only red lizard I really see

They even look similar

[topaz kettle]

"Think about the rabbits Lennie" ahhh Scavenger

[topaz kettle]

Due to the dude above and issues with the scavenger toll, I had to wait for the blizzard to allow myself to progress. Things are slow but hopefully I make it

So far a scavenger is yeeting rocks at me so I can't climb the pole I need to. At least it's not spears

Made it 🙂

[topaz kettle]

No Saint echoes in Icy Monument, I don't think, so... I went straight to Glacial Wasteland. Sounds like the game wants me to see Ms. Moon first, and I won't argue with that

[topaz kettle]

Pebbles!

I know him having contact with his overseers is highly unlikely, but... Pebbles!

[topaz kettle]

I couldn't get to Moon, spending a couple cycles waiting for the Leviathans to eat the giant jelly outside LttM. I went to look for the echo instead, only to find what was in the place of the Shaded Citadel entrance.
I know Moon is okay (despite not seeing any of her overseers yet), but I wasn't expecting to find something located in the middle of Underhang to be... all the way to the right of where I previously supposed Five Pebble's structure is in terms of the surface. But at least, this may give me some hints towards where to find his puppet.
The karma gate that's there... it requires survivor, so I'd need to find the echo to get through. Even then, I'm not sure if I want to...
I know one way to kill a giant jellyfish is just a lot of spears, but obviously Saint has the throwing capacity of a toddler. The only other method I've found for getting past them is the leviathans, so... luck I guess? (Please tell if leviathans don't spawn in that area so I don't spend the next ten cycles swimming back and forth there )

[mystic viper]

Pretty sure they do spawn, however, I'm also pretty sure that if you are fast enough you can actually swim past the jellyfish

Since when you get close, all tentacles come to point directly at you, it lets you swim under the jelly

[topaz kettle]

I ran out of breath when I attempted that earlier. I will try again, though. Thanks : )

[mystic viper]

Are you using boosts?

I did the terrible mistake in my last few playthroughs of using boosts whenever I went underwater and it made most underwater sections completely impossible 😭

Since it drains your breath extremely quickly

[topaz kettle]

No

[mystic viper]

weird, I could swear breath lasts more than enough to get past a jelly

[topaz kettle]

I only boost if I'm close to the surface or know I can breathe later

Is there bubbleweed I can find somewhere in the area?

[mystic viper]

Well, you definitely can swim past them, so definitely keep trying til you find the technique

[topaz kettle]

Okie, thank you 🙂

[mystic viper]

I think it's far more troublesome to go look for it than trying to do it without it

[topaz kettle]

Alright

[mystic viper]

I don't actually know if there are any

[topaz kettle]

There's only one location I can think of where it's consistently been there, but I'm not crossing the entire map again

[mystic viper]

Yah! I just don't know if it still spawns there or not

But yeah not worth it xp

[topaz kettle]

I'll be so honest, seeing this makes me scared. I don't know for what, but it does.

[topaz kettle]

I had a video now, and looking back at it, I boosted out of habit since usually on the big screens of water I dive, boost, and rise to go faster 😂 makes a lot of sense now
After a few tries I did get it so thanks again

She's beautiful as always

[unreal tartan]

[topaz kettle]

Ohhhh now that I found the echo in Luna she's talking to me lol

I don't think she knew I could understand her the first time

[topaz kettle]

Since I gather she doesn't have anything, it is Pebble time

This lantern mouse is my fear personified

[topaz kettle]

This same thing has happened twice now, in the exact same place
Idk guys switch is so goofy

Now I actually want to know what's through that pipe

The place it's marking my death at; it's like I hit my head on the ceiling too hard

I hope I am relatively close to his puppet I've been wandering for an hour

[topaz kettle]

Took me a minute to realize this was the metropolis gate 👀

Anyway

2 hours later

I get the gift of listening to his broken emo music

...I need a ten hour version of this

The way it stops for a minute like he's rewinding it

Okay there's nothing I can do for him right now I'ma go find the echos and come back later now that I know how to find him

As much as I would like to see how long I last listening to his emo music

[topaz kettle]

I dunno. It's weird. I'm no professional at iterator incapacitation and whatnot, but how did he form words without a single neuron? Or like... is his umbilical still attached(it does not look like it, but I can see the majority of it on the ground unlike Moon's which is nowhere to be found.)? I guess my knowledge on Moon can't overarch as much as I thought it would.
He reads pearls at some point in this campaign. I know from looking at the collection that there's an option for the music pearl and one more (a Farm Arrays one I think?) which means he is bettered somehow, without neurons. (Maybe with. ) or maybe he just says "...pearl..." and that's the dialogue lmho

Pebbles aside though, I sure hope I am making progression, somewhat. The little payoff for now 5 or so hours of playtime isn't giving me hope... (dw I'll keep going regardless my obsession fuels me)

[topaz kettle]

Nahhh on the second visit he called me friend

That's motivation

[topaz kettle]

A quick doodle to get back in the groove

I went back to Moon, just as a stop before I go around Silent Construct to the other side (trying to find the echo.)
Pebble's overseer has gone to her now, I guess. I don't have any reasons I can think of as to why besides that it just behaves like her's did; drawn to iterator activity, although minimal.

Awww thank you Moon

[topaz kettle]

The threat music left me when I needed it most

[topaz kettle]

Question: Usually I would investigate/experiment for the answer, but this is something I don't want to do and will only do it if it benefits me completely and utterly, so...
Does neuron glow provide warmth, similar to a swallowed lantern?

[topaz kettle]

...thinking about it, I wouldn't regardless if it did, I love Moon too much

[mystic viper]

Good question, I don't think it does? Wiki doesn't really help too much to answer the question

What even is a "warm object"

[topaz kettle]

A lantern and a pile of scavengers. I don't know if Moon and Pebbles are because their chambers are both out of the blizzard.

[mystic viper]

I don't think the iterators are warm, although creatures bringing warmth makes sense

Eh, even if neuron glow brought warmth I doubt it's enough to really make a difference

[topaz kettle]

I've got a lantern swallowed and am (evidently) carrying a lantern; the main reason I'm asking is so I don't have to carry a lantern anymore and can warm up without clamoring to find some other way. I'm trying to get past a scavenger toll right now in Silent Construct and can't carry a lantern, pearl, and vulture mask simultaneously

[mystic viper]

How did you get a vulture mask

Okay, you can do whatever you want, but in my saint playthrough I did fine with only a swallowed lantern

[topaz kettle]

Witnessed something I didn't know a red lizard was capable of

[mystic viper]

Oh yeah, red lizards hunt vultures

Awesome, honestly

[topaz kettle]

Were you able to warm up outside of the blizzard with just the one swallowed?

[topaz kettle]

After that one attempt at going through SD, I found I wasn't warming up enough out of the blizzard with only one swallowed. Now that I understand the mechanic a little more, I can trying going past the toll carrying the mask instead of the lantern

[mystic viper]

Naur

I mean, for a bit

The blizzard gets progressively worse

Plus, you'll get more lanterns further on, probably

One is definitely enough

[topaz kettle]

Orrr... tame the cyan lizard that keeps killing me

(Bring it a frozen scavenger corpse or something lmho)

[mystic viper]

Dude cyan lizards are SUCH a good tame

I remember doing the pilgrimage server challenge and not only did it show me how stupid lizard ai is, but also that cyans are prolly one of the best and easiest tames

[topaz kettle]

It makes me upset that I didn't find out you could tame them until almost finishing Hunter, having them would've been so helpful then

[mystic viper]

AND THEY ONLY TAKE A FEEDING OR TWO AT MOST 😭

[topaz kettle]

I KNOW IT SHOULDN'T BE THAT EASY 😭

I'm a little worried about it freezing to death as I do tend to really push the blizzard until I literally can't warm up anymore

Then again, portable heater

[mystic viper]

They got hair I think, they should be partially fine...

[topaz kettle]

I hope so lol

Since I lost my karma flower anyway, I might go back into Frosted Cathedral and then Icy Monument and go after cyans there since there's lantern mice

[topaz kettle]

It just occurred to me that I still have to get through that toll (and scavs vs tamed lizors never goes well) so I will tame one if I ever get past this area
All my karma's gone, nothing to lose now

Oooh I found a way around the toll cyan lizor time

[topaz kettle]

His name is Fritz

He's a little stupid but he's got the heart

Speaking of stupid, time to go keep looking for that echo

(Scavs killed Fritz already, so I was tryna die close to my shelter for the karma flower to spawn nearby)

I... I killed him

[topaz kettle]

Sighhhh he keeps dying I need to take a break lmho

[mystic viper]

What's your current max karma?

[mystic viper]

LMAO

0.01 damage at a time 🥹

[topaz kettle]

5, I only have two more echo locations memorized so the rest will be fun to find :>

[topaz kettle]

Fr 😂

[mystic viper]

Oh damn, good luck

Which ones have you gotten and how many do you got left (that you remember)

[topaz kettle]

I've gotten the one in Luna, Sky Islands, Farm Arrays and I think that's it; the two left that I know the locations of are Chimney Canopy and Subterranean

[topaz kettle]

I'm aware that there's some Saint-exclusive things in Submerged Superstructure, from my map usage during Rivulet, but as of right now I have no idea how to get down there without bubbleweed and jetfish

[mystic viper]

||i think that's the one at luna-||

either way, good luck finding the others you need

[topaz kettle]

Thank you, I'll post when I do find them

[mystic viper]

Uhhh definitely look everywhere you can

[topaz kettle]

I will try, and cry

[mystic viper]

Sounds about right for saint

[topaz kettle]

To give some perspective as to how long it's taking me to find this SC echo... I'm 5 hours past how long it took me to beat Rivulet in play time

[fast grove]

how long did you take to beat riv?

[topaz kettle]

5 hours

The wiki helps, maybe a little too much 🥲

[mystic viper]

SC

[topaz kettle]

Silent construct

[mystic viper]

Oooh

I forget they changed the names

I've never heard anyone call them by their new names

[topaz kettle]

Can I get a hint

[topaz kettle]

Idk, they're fancy and I like them, I'm using them interchangeably lol

[mystic viper]

Weeeelll....

Try to remember what used to be there before the saint campaign

[topaz kettle]

There is one place I haven't looked

At least I think so

And that's the metropolis remnants

There was a scav toll there too (because apparently Pebbles collapsing is no excuse to stop paying taxes either) that I didn't pass

Is it in that general area?

[mystic viper]

Well, most likely there

[mystic viper]

I don't know, maybe?

If there aren't any other areas to explore...

[topaz kettle]

Resisting every urge to just look at a map

[topaz kettle]

I'll look at my map in a shelter and see where I haven't been

[mystic viper]

It do be like that, the last echo for me was the worst because I didn't even know that area existed

It's not hard to find
I'm just dumb

My memory blocked the existance of that area

[topaz kettle]

Area like new area for Saint or just an unvisited area?

[mystic viper]

unvisited

[topaz kettle]

Ohh

[mystic viper]

It is very much there EVERY time

My memory just blocked the moment I first saw the entrance to that area

I could swear the path to the gate was just a dead end

[topaz kettle]

For me that's Drainage System, I avoid it like it's the plague lmho

[mystic viper]

Could be Drainage, or could be something else

Best of lucks finding it

[topaz kettle]

Undergrowth?

[topaz kettle]

And thank you again, I'm just catching up timewise to my very first playthrough lol

[mystic viper]

Did you see the wiki?

[topaz kettle]

Yeeeeees, but it was waaaay before I said I wasn't going to use the wiki

Looking at region connections just at the top

So I know Sub is also called Rubicon, but nothing more

[mystic viper]

grrr..........

Yeah try to not check anything else

[topaz kettle]

I won't, I haven't touched the wiki in days

It's killing me

[mystic viper]

If you need clues without being told exactly what to do you can always ask me

[topaz kettle]

But I haven't

[mystic viper]

OMG SAME

I LIKE

I love checking the wiki so much

Feels weird not doing so

[topaz kettle]

Ikrrrrr I feel like I'm getting withdraws from it 😂😭

I've also been working somewhat on other campaigns so doing those without the wiki too is stupid hard 🥲

Bro's really protective of his smile mold apparently

[topaz kettle]

Also to address my original assumption... yeah it's Moon that reads them, not him. He can't. It's... extremely apparent that he can't. Moon just has a really weird color for her Saint readings.

[mystic viper]

They mooostly shouldn't, you can definitely pull through

I cannot imagine my first ever playthrough being without the wiki though

Yeah let me just solve the whole deer puzzle stupid thing on my own

Especially with the fact deer sometimes don't even spawn

[topaz kettle]

(Spoiled for Deep Pink Pearl text/big chunk of collection)

[mystic viper]

What does that mean 😭

Iterator racism

[topaz kettle]

You've seen his tragic little face

It's not racism if he's physically unable to

[mystic viper]

No I meant the moon comment

[topaz kettle]

Ohhhh lmho

[mystic viper]

Moon has a really weird color for her saint readings

[topaz kettle]

Yea

I know it's the color of her puppet

But her color is yellow 😂

It threw me off because Pebbles is blue 😂

And I was all "oh it's more dull, because he collapsed and he's just a lil' deteriorated"

[topaz kettle]

The fact that they added the "experiment with items" tooltip thing when you picked up the puffs is evidence enough 😂

[mystic viper]

IT'S NOT 😭

[topaz kettle]

No, like evidence that the wiki is necessary XD

[topaz kettle]

The wiki is my crutch -- so right now I'm just kinda hobbling along on one foot

[zinc pasture]

I shudder to think of what youll do when Watcher releases and misinfo will be everywhere 😭 /lh
People have done it without wiki. Its just regular experimenting and seeing what interacts with what

[topaz kettle]

Which evidenced by my struggle to find one singular echo, I don't think I'll be playing watcher for a while 😂

....pain

[topaz kettle]

After 7 hours...

What a view

[mystic viper]

It is beautiful

I wish I had enjoyed saint's campaign more

Not that I thought it was bad, but I feel like I almost rushed through it

[topaz kettle]

I haven't talked much about how I've sat in rooms, especially in the wake of Pebble's... where I'm all "I recognize this room." And it's really poignant. That's one of my favorite things about Rain World; it doesn't make me cry, it makes me feel sick with grief without crying. I can't listen to "Satellite" without feeling absolutely heartbroken

[topaz kettle]

First Saint Playthrough -- AKA me struggling without the wiki

[mystic viper]

Oh man I gotta take that a listen

[topaz kettle]

I will admit... my friend who introduced me to Rain World was giving me hints. She was just chanting "go right." I felt like I had scoured almost all of SC and, seeing the area it was; it would've taken me several more hours to find it had I not had a general direct to go. Albeit I'm a little flustered, but it all went away seeing the area the echo was in. The echo music kinda calmed me down, and now I can LEAVE I NEED the change of scenery

Chimney Canopy echo next (if it's still there)

[topaz kettle]

Ngl I forgot I said this and absolutely beelined for undergrowth LMHO

[mystic viper]

Oh you love travelling long distances

[topaz kettle]

It's just going from Shoreline to Sub to Drainage, right? I swear there's a gate somewhere in filtration system... I'll check on Monk tomorrow since I'm right there, but that's not a terribly long distance...
That being said... I did take an excessive route for my hunter run

[mystic viper]

I mean I said it thinking you travelled from silent construct to undergrowth while skipping canopy

Actually, there is no access to canopy right

You still have to go all the way around

[topaz kettle]

I'll deal with it when I get there
(another reason is that I don't want Fritz to keep dying. He's in industrial complex, hopefully not dead.)
The route I half-planned in my head is shoreline->sub->undergrowth->gutter(which I believe is in chimney)

[topaz kettle]

But yeah, I went back down into shoreline. Wanted to say hi to Moon again (you'll never guess who my favorite iterator is)

[mystic viper]

I mean, to be perfectly fair there aren't that many options

If anyone says pebbles is their favorite iterator I'm never talking to that person again

[topaz kettle]

He was my fav for a while until he absolutely abused Spearmaster

Ngl that would've been hilarious if that was the end of the whole campaign, is getting killed by one angsty Pebbles

[topaz kettle]

Monster Kelp jumpscare D: (completely forgot that dude was there I was so confident lol)

Anyway we back at it again 😄

Goal today is to explore Undergrowth. First I have to get there though 🥲

Gimme like thirty minutes

By the way... ancient labyrinth now? How fancy.
...still hate it here though

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is very... depth-y for Filtration system...
The void spawn has been literally everywhere too, leading me downwards to I'm assuming the void sea.
It's... intriguing. I'm kinda looking forward to returning once I have max(or close to max) karma.

I get the feeling the majority of the story of Saint is here.

ANYWAY

Very not what I was expecting... but very fancy

Oooooh

Noooooo there's dropwigs

It's ruined

Is this where literally all of them scampered off to?

[topaz kettle]

Learned that these green leech bois drain your food pips
It's a sea of starvation

Also found the gutter and garbage wastes karma gates 👀
Getting my karma that high for chimneys is gonna be fun

[topaz kettle]

See this is how long it should take to find an echo

On a more serious note... this echo's music is pretty. I like

proceeds to die to the same pole plant thrice in a row

...I broke the streak

By dying to a big spider

And then died to the same pole plant

...I'm done for today lol

[fast grove]

Pole plants have gotten quite lot of nutrients :)

[topaz kettle]

Brother is very well fed now, I should hope

[fast grove]

He still yearns for more

[topaz kettle]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-angry-good-morning-gif-3141351501054240114

Me vs that pole plant:

[topaz kettle]

Guys you'll be so proud of me! I didn't die to that pole plant and got all my karma up and ready!
Just kidding I died to a different pole plant

[topaz kettle]

We playing tug-o-war for my life over here

But at least

Freedom at last

C'mere Spades

Time check

[topaz kettle]

This is by far my favorite echo music... could sit here and listen to it all day

There's one echo left though, and I was getting blue flashes in Subterranean. It is time to yeet myself into a pit

(...to be clear, the pit at the far left of Subterranean lol)

[mystic viper]

monster kelp my beloathed ❤️

[topaz kettle]

Here's an interesting and random Saint observation before I get back into it:
yellow lizors. Everywhere.
At first I thought they were just kinda a few more, but no, I've seen that the MAJORITY of lizors are yellow.
Coincidence? I think not!
The first thought and probably most reasonable explanation I can think of is strength in numbers. They need warmth, so they use each other. They survive together, and they've outlived most of the other lizards. (Especially the ones who tend to fight with their own species.) This also applies to the scavengers, but those dudes survive everything

(I'm allowed to talk about Riv and Spearmaster since you need those to unlock Saint, right? I hope so)
This, oddly enough, I feel ties directly back to Five Pebbles. That being said, I absolutely despise playing Spearmaster so I am severely lacking in the broadcast department, but from what it sounds like, the other iterators could've very well saved Looks to the Moon and Five Pebbles had he been more willing to accept help. I understand the whole self-destruction taboo, but the point where Five Pebbles was straight up rejecting all offers of assistance is evidence that maybe, things could've gone a lot better with other iterators working on the problem.
He chose to be alone, and it killed(incapacitated, really) not only him but also Moon. When Moon was able to talk to him for the first time, he listened, and his last days were spent, most likely occupying his time with her company. (Someone pointed out on Reddit that they're playing a game together with her overseers and I just about died of cuteness overload.)
My point being, the yellow lizards really represent what he could've accomplished had he stuck with the group.
Lizors outsmarted an angsty teen

I may come back to this later and be like "what was I on?" but at least I'll know how much I've learned/haven't learned when I do look back to it

[mystic viper]

I don't even know how you managed to connect the thriving of orange lizards to Five pebbles but I am genuinely shocked at how accurate it is

[topaz kettle]

Thank you

[fast grove]

You are allowed to talk any your theories in your own thread :D

[topaz kettle]

Apparently this is where Pebbles' overseers get together now

Gaah I hate these things

[topaz kettle]

Pickpocketing a scavenger who robbed me

The danger music getting progressively worse the more I take tho

Okay he either gets so mad he kills me or I die in the adjacent room to big spiders. I'ma hop off for now lol

[topaz kettle]

I'm a sucker for some good music, and Rain World is full of it.
Farm Arrays music? Top tier for me. Makes the rain deer and worm grass bearable for me.

As I approach Subterranean, I'm seeing Pebble's overseers everywhere. It of course makes me wonder why they're here. What are they drawn to? I said previously that the one with Moon was likely either trying to help her or was brought to her activity.
So... what's so interesting, overseers?

Hello, Sprouts

I am intrigued

Uhhhh... excuse me?

LMHO WHAT

Don't know what performing an accession does

[topaz kettle]

Well

I see one way to go and that's the void sea

We shall see what happens and when

...although the big spiders say otherwise

Actually, although the curiosity is killing me, I need sleep

I shall ponder and return tomorrow

[topaz kettle]

Woa

It made me drop my vulture mask though I worked so hard watching that red lizard get it for me

...was just thinking "huh, the background looks kinda like rot"

Good to know

Excuse me sir

I like having my options

Brother

This is called physiological harassment

Don't you shrug at me

Wait

Is

[topaz kettle]

Is this just murder?

It didn't work on the guardian (maybe I didn't do it right)

Yeah okay he ded now

Loser

I feel like I have admin powers

[topaz kettle]

Oooh I have a cycle timer

Wonder what happens at the end

Meh I'll find out when it's least convenient 😂

Huh

I'm assuming since I killed one before, they just get aggressive if they lose their eggs but don't die

(The lizards here are sick btw )

As a side note I know that the bugs are called firebugs, but nothing else

Feel free just as a general rule to tell me creature names

Wait

Idea

Very good an idea

I shall place it in my head for later

Oh ew there's miros vultures here

[topaz kettle]

Okie back at it again

My first thought: window

My second thought: huh?
at first I was like "this area looks kinda like farm arrays and now... HUH?

It was farm arrays and then it's sky islands and then it's communications array and now it's industrial complex?

I... I can't... the huh what?

Eh doesn't matter a centipede killed me

Oh and now memory crypts

If there's miros birds I will cry

Oh nvm it's just shaded citadel

Okay NOW it's memory crypts

I'm really starting to question what on earth I'm meant to do

[topaz kettle]

NOOOOOO

As I emotionally recover from that

Is there no pipeyard in Saint's campaign? I'm one away from Wanderer and the only other region I'm missing is submerged superstructure

And I know that's here

So... no pipeyard? (Insert megamind stare)

Or it's just an extra from the wanderer passage. I dunno Drainage and Pipeyard are the two areas that I never go to

Now in the exterior... hmmm

Oooh the rot is gold; the rot is fancy

I lost my lantern, so now I'm struggling to identify where I am

Right now it's the lower five pebbles entrance gate tho

Gotta treat this like Shaded Citadel; I know where I am even in complete darkness 😛

OH WAIT

I have a lantern swallowed

Heheheh

Okay, there's moosic and I'm in pebbles

Screen is distored

Hmmm

Oh, I found his chamber entrance, I think

My heart is pounding

Hmm

Oh wow it's so much brighter on my phone screen lol

Never thought I'd find myself trying to swim out of the void sea

This is... weird

I-

What happened?

[zinc pasture]

:3

[topaz kettle]

My switch tends to crash during accession cutscenes so begging for that to NOT happen

Sorry I'm skipping the credits this time

I-

Wha-

No-

I really wish I could provide more material here but I'm genuinely at a loss for words

That... that can't be it

[zinc pasture]

:3

[topaz kettle]

The iterators... the babies

Here's this... but... surely that's just an ending

[zinc pasture]

Obligatory repost

[topaz kettle]

Ascending the two babies was this btw

Okay this is sick looking though

But

[zinc pasture]

I have some fun facts if youd like to hear :3

[topaz kettle]

WHAT KIND OF HOLLOW KNIGHT AHH ENDING WAS THAT?

i'm not okay

[topaz kettle]

Do they involve lore spoilers? 👀

[zinc pasture]

Uhh
Not really

[topaz kettle]

Then surezies 👀

[zinc pasture]

Fun fact #1: ||The campaign art doesn't reset, even if you reset the campaign||
Fun fact #2: ||The item in your stomach stays when you reset the campaign||
Fun fact #3: ||The song that plays while swimming up in the Void Sea is Survivor/Monk's intro cutscene song, but reversed||

:3

[unreal tartan]

fun fact 3 changed

[topaz kettle]

Oooooohh

Those are some fun facts

I'm losing my sanity

No

I lost my sanity

But

[unreal tartan]

if you want the old fun fact 3 ||saint's icon is positioned in a fun spot (in sky islands) in the regions menu ||

[topaz kettle]

Oooh ty as well

[zinc pasture]

[topaz kettle]

Well

I'm angy

[unreal tartan]

not sure if that one should still be included because it's most likely unintentional

[topaz kettle]

But now that I know where the echoes are it shouldn't take me too terribly long to get to the other ending

(Angry because I wasn't expecting it. I'm fine lol just utterly flabbergasted and bamboozled)

[topaz kettle]

Knowing that the art remains though is reassuring. It's actually epic and provides a little more incentive to restart

I'm just going to document every echo I find(and theories/observations I make), since this is (in all technicalities) no longer a first playthrough

Still haven't beaten Monk tho

[royal flax]

I actually never new that lmao, I knew I recognized it HEAVILY, but didn't know where

[topaz kettle]

Do... do y'all want me to write an extensive paragraph (or 7) about my thoughts on the ending? (Now that I've composed myself and had time to think about it)

[zinc pasture]

If you want to
My extensive paragraph Im working on is just my extensive thoughts of what Saint's lore is but In Stars and Time is distracting me from working on it lol

[topaz kettle]

Lol I'll do it in a while, right now is play time with the ten spare minutes I have

1/7

[topaz kettle]

sips tea and watches a red lizor down two vultures

Oh and also

2/7

[topaz kettle]

sips tea and watches worm grass eat the dead vultures and possibly the red lizor

[topaz kettle]

Okay

Paid a scavenger toll

Scavs didn't grab the pearl

Scavs push me past the toll

Scavs kill me

Scavs wave me through the toll

Scav logic

[topaz kettle]

Wait, why are they still mad at me? Scav reputation changes aren't saved upon death...?
Also, they're toll scavs, they're not supposed to be aggressive if you haven't crossed the toll line D:

Unless it is carried over...?

Okay third time's a charm. That was weird

Anyone else ever pause the game when music starts playing to listen to it since sometimes it fades away halfway through?

I sometimes even do it with threat music (I call it adrenaline music sometimes) if I need to focus/calm down in a stressful place

[topaz kettle]

3/7

Gonna do a mini side quest here and bring the music pearl to moon after the next echo

Now that I know where both Pebbles and that echo is ( ) it shouldn't take me terribly long

[topaz kettle]

4/7

I know it's like actually so sad to see Pebbles in the condition he's in

But why did the pearl make a noot sound when I first approached him 😂

...I give him some company for a while -- now that he appreciates it

His dialogue when you take it is so sad tho... I'm definitely bringing it back when I'm done

NOOOO I KNEW SHELTER SKIPPING THIS WHOLE THING WAS A BAD IDEA

I need a cookie I'll be back later

[topaz kettle]

one montage of eating a cookie and playing monk for a while later

I'm going to attempt this again because I have little regard for my sanity when playing this game 😄

Success

[topaz kettle]

Okok, here is another observation/theory I've had for quite some time:

Miros birds. As much as I hate them, they fascinate me to no end. What fascinates me the most though are the locations you can find them: below an iterator superstructure, on an iterator superstructure, and in Subterranean, a place which has a lot of similar tech to an iterator.
Another thing to note is they are almost entirely mechanical, but they have a few biological aspects here and there. Sound familiar? They also share the same eye shape as inspectors and neurons and... puppets(although this is inconsistent as in dreams we see the puppets have eye shapes similar to scugs).

I've believed for a while that miros birds do have a function for iterators(or just 5P, meaning they're newer purposed organisms or something.) Since they appear in Silent Construct too, they most likely got dislodged from whatever location they were previously working at. (That being said, they could also just be the ones from the Floor or Memory Crypts.)
As for the actual function, my only guess is cleaning. They want to eat any scrambling rodent or insect, ones that could easy crawl into the spaces of superstructures and cause a decent amount of damage. (Evidenced by 5P saying to stop scratching around in his memory conflux. I'm sure it doesn't hurt him much, but every neuron disrupted is the loss of something like his favorite brownie recipe )
For more evidence, Moon cares a lot more about creatures in her premises. And she has no miros birds.
What I'm saying is that I feel like they have a mechanical function, but no ties to the iterators themselves, so even when both iterators are down for the count they still sweep the floors.

Oho that gave me the monk role, sweet

Anyway

I could also argue that they're afraid of inspectors, rot, and ignore overseers(me too guys), but that's practically everything in this game

[topaz kettle]

I'm playing Gourm/Monk simultaneously, Saint is my main focus currently but I am also passively food questing
(I just don't enjoy playing Gourm so I haven't said anything lol)

[topaz kettle]

(Also avoided Gourm because I don't want the trauma of having kids)

[topaz kettle]

Aaanddd success again :3

It'd be funny if I shelter skipped the whole way down again but I'm not going to

Wait

It's gone

Does it not save?

I heard it briefly on my way back

[zinc pasture]

Whats gone?

[topaz kettle]

The music pearl

I gave it to him, he started using it

[zinc pasture]

Then thats a bug if its jsut disappeared

[topaz kettle]

Welp

[zinc pasture]

Verify files or smth

[topaz kettle]

I'm on switch I wish I could lmho

[zinc pasture]

Oh :(

[topaz kettle]

He'll be okay

...probably

For specification, he had it last cycle but this current cycle when I came back to take just a regular pearl he didn't have it anymore

As a side note

My scav reputation also decreased during this last cycle? I didn't even see them what did I do lmho

[zinc pasture]

Weird
Might be good to put it in #1019653041982537879 ?

[topaz kettle]

Ye I can do that

[zinc pasture]

Sometimes they jsut decide to hate you a tiny bit more for soem reason :p

[topaz kettle]

That's mean

[royal flax]

Exactly why they all DESERVE TO PERISH

[topaz kettle]

I agree but I do value my life (especially when I can't spear them)

[topaz kettle]

Well, I came back the next cycle and it's here.

He's such a drama queen

[zinc pasture]

lol

[topaz kettle]

I'm gonna give it a break for a while since 5P's pearl isn't the only thing that is breaking

[zinc pasture]

Classic tongue physics

[topaz kettle]

Great start

[topaz kettle]

I've made the trip(shaded to chimney echo) so often I did it in two cycles

ladies and gentlemen

5/7

Guys tunnel juking when there's 6 six yellow lizards involved is terrifying D:

Just as a side note, my plan is:
get undergrowth echo
Get subterranean echo
Grab pink pearl on my return trip through farm arrays
Ascend 5P
Ascend LttM
...I dunno after that

Right now, I'm trying to get to the gutter. Haven't even made it yet because there are red, cyan, strawberry, and yellow lizards, along with winged centipedes all causing issues

I don't want to keep losing karma tho so I'll stop for now 👀

[topaz kettle]

6/7

[topaz kettle]

one traumatizing filtration experience later

7/7

I have admin privileges once more

[topaz kettle]

Hmmm... wellI sure hope my reputation is high enough

Cuz I'm flyin' over this one

Well they aint mad, so either my reputation's high enough or flying over it doesn't count as "crossing"

To be safe I'll assume the former

I have something I gotta do for an hour or two but afterwards I shall complete my goal

[topaz kettle]

Oh my goodness

I am speed

Maybe a lil too much speed

I know it'd be more efficient if I ascended Moon first, but I kinda wanna see what happens first

And besides

Pebbles kinda

Got himself into all this because he wanted to ascend

I feel like he kinda wants it a little more than she does

To be frank, I don't actually know her stance on personal ascension to begin with

She's very... neutral on the subject, telling things as they are and not giving her opinions

Speaking of

I love how the pearl with the most flamboyant and kinda useless text is the one that survives

[topaz kettle]

Well...

Here goes nothing

...is the only clip that comes to my head

He still grabs me when I approach him though

Hmm

What do to... what to think...

There's clearly more to that

I hope

Now I'm a little torn

Should I just... Ascend Moon and do the whole Rubicon sequence all over again?

I don't see any other options...

I'm reluctant, but I will ascend her.

Give me a few minutes to get there.

Oh my gosh I came back and his puppet looks so cursed

I need to draw this

Hang on

Side quest

[topaz kettle]

My first time seeing his overseer here?

Looks like he's just watching for now

Uhhhh I'm scared to do it for Moon

I MISSED

Ok

Uh

The same exact outcome, except I feel ten times worse

[topaz kettle]

She's in the exact same position now too

Except more like a dead sheep

Idk how to explain it

I don't know
...

I'm going to hang it up for now

This is rather demotivating

[zinc pasture]

[topaz kettle]

I'm back

...

I'm gonna... I think I'm gonna just go to Rubicon

see what happens

[topaz kettle]

I think since I know what one route does...

I'm just going to explore

There's a lot I haven't reached

At least, from my first run, so...

[topaz kettle]

...well that scared me (quite literally) to death

I'm so tense

The miros vultures are everywhere

At least 6 in this room alone

Gonna hop off again for food

Enjoy a completed Five Pebbles concept in my absence

[topaz kettle]

I'm just now finally noticing this

But it seems that certain guardians, when they lock rooms

They start these arena type things

I keep dying to the red lizard constantly spitting at me and locking me in place until the timer on flight runs out, to which then it catches me before I even touch the ground

I don't know if the game is implying that this area I'm trying to pass has a reward at the end or whatever

But I do know that this is kinda getting repetitive, either dying in the "arena" or dying to the excessive amount of miros vultures

Usually I'm fine with regional challenges in RW but this one... waahh I wanna see what happens I don't wanna fight for my life in what seems to be the underworld itself

...

I rest my case

[unreal tartan]

how did it get there

[unreal tartan]

also this is really neat

[topaz kettle]

Thank you

Finally

I'm in the Outskirts boiler room thing right now

[unreal tartan]

[topaz kettle]

Knowing my last experience I'm gonna go through a tunnel and be in shoreline next

Oh that noot arena thing was mean

I didn't get screenshots because I was running for my life

What the

Am I... upside down now?

Oh and now I'm sideways

...whatever I'm still going

I think this is drainage system

I really can't tell

And now garbage wastes

The only way I can tell it's garbage wastes is because there is pebble everywhere

Ohh now shoreline

Nifty

Is this..

Luna?

Idk I just died

But

It looks like Luna

I'm not familiar with Luna because I've maybe spent 5 minutes there

[unreal tartan]

[topaz kettle]

Eh I dunno

I'm probably just being too hopeful

Taking a different route anyway this time

'Tis the spirit of exploration

Ohhh I know where it is/what is is

That makes a lot more sense

It's just sideways

'Tis the garbage wastes room with the satellite

Garbage wastes, surprisingly, is a region I actually don't know my way around too well

I can do Shaded Citadel in complete darkness

But GW? Nah

[topaz kettle]

What threw me off the most I think is just the tech similar to an iterator wall, which the satellite in gw has

Oh I found what happens when the timer runs out

Rooms flood

Shoulda guessed

I see...

(I feel like you can hear the gears turning in my head at the beginning of this clip lol)

I hope that distance is achievable

I'ma try swimming in (I'm like 80% sure now that that's void fluid) whilst flying and see what happens

To perhaps make that doable

Oh

I'm looking at the map

There's platforms I missed

That's doable

We hangin'

Ooh

This is underhang

Which means

Huh

[topaz kettle]

Could... this have anything to do with them?

I'm almost there now so... I would hope so

The other side of it is not showing up on my map, so this is likely a different underhang altogether (although not Moon's unless there's just rot here for the heck of it)

Okay now it's showing the other side

Stop doing this to me rw

HI YOU GOOBERS

...it crashed my switch lmho

Oh nvm I think we good

Y'all tell me if this is how it usually goes or if my switch just had an aneurysm

I actually went back to the shelter tho because I need to get to bed and don't have time to do the ascension ending again

But

When I get off work

It's back at it

[topaz kettle]

...can I look at the wiki now

[royal flax]

Have beaten every campaign?

[topaz kettle]

Except Gourm and Inv

[royal flax]

Well beat Gourm then you can

Maybe

[topaz kettle]

I have partially looked at the wiki for the crafting tree

[topaz kettle]

Real life is really crazy right now, but I will conclude this campaign with many thoughts and a doodle when I get the opportunity

[topaz kettle]

First Saint Playthrough -- Finished and Theorizing

[rough silo]

Obligatory repost @zinc pasture you didn't send it..........

[topaz kettle]

I'm working on it

Alright, it's "essay" time.

My first conclusion? Rubicon(for the most part) isn't actually a place at all.
It is what you dream about upon attempting to ascend.
(I'ma be so fancy here and cite my sources) It's said that the Void Sea slowly consumes what is close to it (Teal Pearl), similar to how the Earth's core melts what's close to it and hardens elsewhere. By the lack of the existence of depths, it's safe to say the Void Sea has destroyed the majority of it.
However, entering Rubicon is Saint's way of "ascension," at least how they've imagined it. A rubicon is defined as a bounding or limiting line, so it's possible it serves as a border that Saint cannot cross.
During other campaigns where wiki was free game, I found this in trivia:

I did kinda see Rubicon as a form of Underworld, and this practically confirms it. Along with the most deadly and annoying creatures known to Scug
So, to get to the point... Saint becomes an echo at the end; someone who attempted to ascend, but lacked something and were forever trapped in the world as an 'echo.' (Bright red)
It's like they hallucinate Rubicon as a whole as a punishment for even thinking of ascending, and at the end is something the Ancients created to help them and others ascend in the first place (iterators). Rubicon is a reflection of the journey, of the person's life in a painful, destructive way.
Notice how Saint is most violent here. They can throw fire spears but not regular spears. They literally have to destroy guardians to advance.
Every creature I killed was a guilt-trip. (Except the centipedes I don't like those things and I never will).
The point is Saint is imagining Rubicon because they're bound to the world.

On your visit to Moon after seeing the echo, she talks about how you are much more attuned than other creatures. I would definitely ask Pebbles to back that up but there ain't a thought behind those eyes in this campaign
So that's why other scugs were able to ascend. (Minus Arti, but Arti's reasons for having ties to the world is clear. Obviously, letting go of those ties frees her.) Because they lacked the knowledge of attunement, aka, were literally too stupid to grasp the concept.
No wonder Five Pebbles is so annoyed with the creatures all coming to him for his 'reluctant' gift. These things with a max of 2 brain cells can ascend but he can't. (More on him later.)
For a little more evidence, Saint starts and ends on the Karma symbol for "lust." It ain't just sexual things, it's the general longing for something. Which I don't know what, but Saint does apparently

Now, my general interest in iterators makes me biased on this next section, but y'know... I don't care.
Iterators are literally built to assist in ascension and to play no role in ascending for themselves. Because of their mechanical shells, I hardly believe they're physically able to.
I don't think Sliver of Straw did anymore. I think the search for the triple affirmative drove her mad and she sent it out as a final bow. Pebbles latched onto this idea thinking she had truly found it and, in all brutal honesty, incapacitated himself and Looks to the Moon.
Still, when I 'ascended' them... they were not ascended.
The rest of their functions were fried.
They were killed.
Saint is simply imagining their presence -- what bits of them are actually sentient -- in Rubicon. They both explain to Saint that they are useless (and I read their individual ascension dialogue knowing dang well I'm not playing Saint twice more); in a sense that their purpose could never be solved, and now Saint feels they are free... because they are dead. Saint has to "wake up," and they do; in the Void Sea.
But somehow, they either don't want to ascend, or can't.
They try to kill the void-worm-inspector-approver thing(idk what it's called.)

This goofy dude.

They are an echo. And always will be, no matter what they try.
In conclusion, Rubicon isn't real; it's a reflection, a punishment, and an attempt to prove that Saint cannot ascend. Similar to an iterator, Saint's only purpose is to ascend others, never themselves.
gasp maybe Saint is Sliver reincarnated(disregarding my entire section on why I think Sliver kicked the bucket and nothing more)
I do still stand by my case that Saint is iterator made, or iterator related. Their lack of the mark of communication, but still having the ability to communicate, makes it evident.
I'm open to discussion about this large chunk of text, either here or in msc-lore. I'm yet to hear... any other insights on this and I'm curious. I feel very rock-solid on this argument the way I worded it, but this whole theory is a house of cards
And now some art!

(I'm really inclinded to also draw the gold red lizors in Rubicon, those take a lot more effort tho so some other time.)

[rough silo]

within the code Rubicon is referred to as HR, short for Hell Region
obviously not actually relevant for ingame lore, but it's funny

also whoa cool art

[topaz kettle]

Lol wait actually

[topaz kettle]

I will also note that that was technically my second run... since I didn't ascend the iterators the first time...

[rough silo]

ah

well now you've gotten more information

[topaz kettle]

Precisely

[topaz kettle]

Welp, this goes down the drain as a pearl dialogue with Pebbles reveals that ||their purpose is to protect the memory crypts, since it's a very sacred place for the ancients.|| Ah well

[heady ruin]

I got better score wawawahahahwawa /silly

[topaz kettle]

I didn't kill anything

[heady ruin]

I almost didnt kill anything and got over 7000 i think

I kill like two things