modding-channels-discussion

[obsidian gust]

here @raw niche

[tepid ember]

2nd

[green niche]

4th

[obsidian gust]

modding-channels-discussion

[lyric badge]

6th

[violet thorn]

Modding.

[obsidian gust]

Well stop now otherwise I'll have to delete your messages cuz they are offtopic.

[acoustic totem]

@sullen heart hi there you :) would you be alright with moving your post here: #931554362071871528 message to #1023288872005808239 this thread?

I suppose we could just move them over wholesale vs waiting for individuals who originally posted them

[raw niche]

I'm gonna write up a message for the common issues board about log files, ie 'if you have a problem, send exceptionLog' (but more elaborate)

[acoustic totem]

sounds good :D

[tepid ember]

oh wow the common issues thread needs migration

[obsidian gust]

What are the current modding support commands for dyno?

I know about ?exceptionLog and ?allTheLogs

[raw niche]

btw, can post order be changed?

particularly for the common issues channel, might be good to organize in order of most useful

[tepid ember]

yeah we do need to plan the most common ones to be more accessible

however

pins still work

📌

so the most important ones could be ordered with pins

[acoustic totem]

hm @tepid fulcrum would you mind moving your posts from #931554362071871528 over to #1023288872005808239 when you have the time?

you obviously have access to the raw contents with formatting etc

[tepid ember]

yeah CRS stuff also feels apropiate for Gar

[obsidian gust]

Gar has access to raw discord messages?

cool

[raw niche]

I'll take suggestions for rewording the log post, lol

(also does Realm still combine exceptionLog and LogOutput.log?)

[obsidian gust]

yes

[tepid fulcrum]

if i put all in a row they will look not very good

[acoustic totem]

thank you gronxks I believe in you

[tepid fulcrum]

waiting a couple of minutes should separate them right?

otherwise i will just wait a day or until someone else posts sths

[acoustic totem]

you can also do
_ _ if you want a free space at the start of a message

_ _
like so

[sullen heart]

[pt] if you edit a message with the discord client you get to see the raw text including the formatting characters

you can then copy+paste from that

[winter merlin]

channel discussion!!!!!

[acoustic totem]

I've moved #modding-quick-support down to the archives category

the new channel seems to be working fine! definitely easy to track issues :D

modders will always be able to access support regardless of having the archives role or not

[tepid ember]

[tepid fulcrum]

is it possible to change the order of this?

i suspect AUDB won't be a re-ocurring issue

[raw niche]

@acoustic totem we need to move the old pins from #modding-quick-support into somewhere else. Tbh some of them are more relevant to #modding-dev, like the level editor source code or adobe director stuffs.

[acoustic totem]

yeah, for sure

hm

hm feel free to move over whatever you like- a lot seem a lil outdated or only relevant for the archives?

[raw niche]

some of them are outdated, but others are ones I've bookmarked because of how useful they are

I personally will be unavailable for the next 6 hours, so if anybody else wants to do this, uh, yeah

[raw niche]

alright, I've gone through the pins, found which ones might be relevant, although I reckon half of these could be deprecated into the modding wiki

Director stuffs (for LEditor source code)
Adobe Director 12 source code for level editor: https://ln5.sync.com/dl/1272b18a0/kty5qwxe-uz4gnxa8-hhkyr5ut-a7zeccjv

Direct Link for Adobe Director 12: https://ln5.sync.com/dl/eccf621c0/dhvrhzvh-z8cgpzw5-5smi533v-hrpd5y5i

You need to have this extension installed for the director 12 editor to export PNG files: http://valentin.dasdeck.com/xtras/img_xtra/
#modding-dev message

Director 12 trial reset: https://docs.google.com/document/d/164nm5eWcJ2UGv2OA7g7dV7VzWXx5vYngVSp8okJgPbI/edit

level editor render previews
Render of all materials, by Will
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/431534164932689921/705803327429935124/unknown.png

Render of all tiles
https://imgur.com/a/Vz3Kk

Renders of Level Editor Effects, by Will
#modding-quick-support message

Renders of all in-game plants, by @Ледяная Соня
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/431534164932689921/564848831901204500/unknown.png

Renders of all rope props, by DryCryCrystal
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/431534164932689921/731700759476961360/unknown.png

misc level editor helps
Proper construction of pipe geometry: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/305139167300550666/404491462772785153/2018-01-20_23-24-05.gif

Custom Tile Tutorial, by Fishnoid
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/431534164932689921/771269268649934888/Tile_Guide.png

Guide to level sizes
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/431534164932689921/518874588235694100/unknown.png

Level Editor Tutorial (Kaeporo)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ0DO-fmPCE

Arena Tutorial (Andrew)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaOh3koLOMY

Building a room from beginning to end (Dakras)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wdmnInJOEk

Level editor symbolic link (efficiency trick)
#modding-quick-support message

how to use common modding things
If you previously had Partiality installed...
#modding-quick-support message

How to verify integrity of game files - Steam
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=2037-QEUH-3335

How to use Parsec
https://support.parsecgaming.com/hc/en-us/categories/115000312192-Getting-Started

How to use Monkland
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/431534164932689921/482910776491900928/unknown.png

Basic mod making tutorials
Rain World Graphics Modding
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IkQguJTa5aXunZkWiqjcGATXAwPkMeE726pSYiiywyc/edit?usp=sharing

Intro to C#
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/csharp/tutorials/intro-to-csharp/

How to use autocomplete for hooking in visual studio
you can hit tab after typing += and visual studio will do the rest for you
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/431534164932689921/564596897013039135/auto_complete.gif

How to hook a property (outdated?)
#modding-quick-support message

How to include a PNG in DLL
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XTc3pyDZAdjzxQ7Av6VrzGRpDDsrLmUP/view?usp=sharing

Futile 2D Backup Resources
#modding-quick-support message

(hm, maybe I should uploaded a txt instead...)

but uh, if anybody has any thoughts on where these all should go

[raw niche]

this could maybe be its own post in #1023285408450228335, with installation\usage instructions of commonly used but hard to install mods, like Drought, Fancy Slugs, Jolly, ect. As opposed to the common-issues post, which is more about debugging

[raw niche]

these are very niche, but useful to have around for certain people. Perhaps they could be put on a page on the modding wiki? or maybe just pinned in #modding-dev, idk

[raw niche]

these also I think should be on the modding wiki, but maybe somewhere in Discord as well, since they're so incredibly useful to new level editors

[obsidian gust]

Hm the xtras for adobe director are incomplete here.

You also need some other ones you won't find anywhere.

Dry sent his xtras folder some time ago.

Also @raw niche

How to include a PNG in DLL
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XTc3pyDZAdjzxQ7Av6VrzGRpDDsrLmUP/view?usp=sharing

This is outdated

It uses patches

#modding-quick-support message

xtras folder^

How to hook a property (outdated?)

Garrakx' method still works and no it's not outdated.

Tho it is recommend to use GetMethod with get_ or set_ at the beginning of the name.

Cuz there's a hidden overload for private setters and getters for GetGetMethod and GetSetMethod

[raw niche]

thoughts on putting these in #modding-resources?

[acoustic totem]

oh wow thank you for this

I'd definitely stick what is still relevant in modding resources if it'd be more useful there than archived anyway ;D

better there than not right

I've added a ⚠️ Not Resolved tag for posts older than say, 24h, or which have a lot of messages, but still no solution or last word

[tepid ember]

woah

pretty useful

[winter merlin]

@humble sundial modding channels discussion

[humble sundial]

oh boy

uh hi <@&870666604940238880> @vagrant cipher @queen merlin @raw niche @tepid ember @acoustic totem apologies for reping, moving away from modding misc hellhole #965639206561009664 message

[tepid ember]

thanks, i forgot this channel existed

[humble sundial]

I never knew it existed

[tepid ember]

well im gonna repeat what i said there back in this channel

[humble sundial]

proposed options so far:

1. continue as we have been (p sure this will result in someone's death)
2. hybrid solution with a quick-support channel, redirecting people to the forum if necessary
   2a) 2 but using a brand few, clean forum
3. go back to a single channel (less work for us, more support requests lost

none of these are perfect but I think I'm in favour of 2a

[tepid ember]

why not keeping the forum format but instead of making your own post, there are main threads for each issue so the trafic is split?

ppl making their own posts and abandoning them seems to be the issue here

[humble sundial]

m, maybe

I mean it's a similar sentiment to the hybrid option

[tepid ember]

yeah

just like how common issues work

instead of 1 thread with all the common issues

1 thread for each type of common issue that could need elaboration and a "other" thread

so someone just joins, checks the options and decides where to ask for help

categories like:
-common issues 🔒
-crashes (during gameplay)
-crashes (on launch/start)
-save files issues
-downloading mods
-mods not working
-mods malfunctioning
-....

in unsure what the most common issues are tho, im not that active

[humble sundial]

crashes during gameplay and launch could be caused by a bunch of things

gameplay especially

[tepid ember]

yeah but, dont expect a new player to know what caused it

is just to split crashes in 2

since seems like the most common reason ppl come here

[humble sundial]

would definitely need to think some more about what categories there should be if that's the approach but tbh I don't think there's much point in separating them at that point

[vagrant cipher]

I still feel the big issue is lack of control we have over threads

[humble sundial]

Agreed, but I think even if the... Let's be generous and say 7 regulars could manage it, to clear our current backlog would take about 25 posts per person

[raw niche]

most of the current posts are asking the same few things tbh

and can either be answered with like, 1 sentence, or nobody knows what the answer is

[humble sundial]

So do you think the single channel + forum is the most appropriate way to deal with that? Or something else?

[raw niche]

probably, yeah

more relevant bot commands might also make it easier to respond to individuals

[raw niche]

just went through every single open modding-support post - 104 of them are already are resolved

and out of the half remaining, most of them are obsolete at this point

we just need a single person with closing thread perms to look through modding-support a single time

that's the biggest thing I dislike about the forum format - it requires active management by people who have perms (this doesn't happen)

[humble sundial]

damn, good job

[raw niche]

also one thing I liked about the single channel was that people could be ignored (lol.) Usually if somebody wanted a problem resolved but was unanswered the first time, they would ask again. But it's very common for somebody to figure out their own solution after trying a little bit, or to stop caring, or for the issue to stop being an issue anymore.

[humble sundial]

yeah, that's true

[winter merlin]

Bro the real solution is apply to be a modding helper

:3

[humble sundial]

one of us one of us

[raw niche]

no

wait do modding helpers have modding-support perms

[humble sundial]

yes

[raw niche]

@ wrayk...

[humble sundial]

an opt in role for modding support perms that doesn't require an application could be an option...

[raw niche]

honestly they should make me server admin, I deserve it

[humble sundial]

true

[raw niche]

ugh..,,

[humble sundial]

lol...

[tepid ember]

[violet thorn]

7th circle of hell

[winter merlin]

couldnt pay me to go in there (except when Im bored)

[tepid fulcrum]

closed all resolved issues

let me know if i need to do something else

[winter merlin]

Give me a high five

[raw niche]

thx Gar

(although there are many posts that are resolved that don't have the 'resolved' tag)

(ie, the ones that end with 'thanks it works now')

(and a few that were resolved outside of modding-support)

[tepid fulcrum]

rip

[humble sundial]

thanks gar

[manic galleon]

thanks gandrew

[acoustic totem]

it does just pile up a lot

does a brand new forum sound good overall?

would involve frontloading a lot of the work but has the potential to be a lot simpler over time?

[acoustic totem]

this might be good as well :D

being honest it's a free for all and we'd give perms out to anyone who asked loal

mostly

modders

without recent infractions smh

perhaps ping me here if you'd like em?

no dms because that's way more work

actually don't do that I'm going to bed and don't want pings overnight :) just poast here without pinging me

[winter merlin]

can i have helper perms

[vagrant cipher]

Can I have helper

I don’t have any recent infractions right?

[violet thorn]

Can I have owner? I have lots of infractions

[lyric badge]

can i have complete omnipotence? i won't use it for evil...... swearsies........

[manic galleon]

can i have batfly

[tepid ember]

what perms are those exactly?

[winter merlin]

modding helper perms includes the ability to pin, feature, delete, and remove the reactions of any post in all of the modding categoried channels (+the meme gallery channel )

[tepid ember]

but they arent talking about modding helper role, are they?

from the description seems like something smaller

[winter merlin]

i think its the perms of modding helper, but like, without the actual status (so no access to the funny helper channers)

though the main function i think is just for modding support

mmm, there is a number 165 next to modding support rn

wonder what it means

[tepid ember]

(177) 💀

i wanna help too then

[humble sundial]

I meant an opt-in role that basically just had perms to manage the forum. Not entirely sure what gwyn means

[humble sundial]

for some god forsaken reason it's threads with unread messages rather than open threads

[winter merlin]

I have to fucking open 164 threads to make the number go away :3

??

[tepid ember]

yup... you can mark as read and still there

(at least to me)

actually considered

the quick questions channel is a good idea considering how many full threads can be solved in a "how do i do this"

just check the latest posts
-why my 1.5 mods dont work on 1.9
-can someone make this idea?
-where can i find the full console command list?
-can somebody give me these two mods?

a #431533198288093184-questions or #quick-help would help solve these small posts

[acoustic totem]

@vagrant cipher @tepid ember you have manage post perms in #1023285408450228335 now :o

(those seemed like the only two semi serious requests)

[tepid ember]

thanx

[violet thorn]

oh no dry got perms

[tepid ember]

the power

dry's evil arc

@acoustic totem just to make sure, we use these perms only to delete already solved or straight abandoned posts right?

[acoustic totem]

and to close solved posts :>

I've also opened #modding-quick-support to mod-role'd users

[tepid ember]

thats so nice!

[acoustic totem]

I'd suggest that if you guys wanted to start writing basic support tips, like these, we could update the pins then

and then just "check pins" would be a good response :D

[violet thorn]

[tepid ember]

pins in which channel?

[violet thorn]

what's quick support?

[humble sundial]

Could it be moved above the forum blease

More visible there

[vagrant cipher]

[violet thorn]

can we get a better explaination

[humble sundial]

(especially for people subscribed to a billion forum posts)

[humble sundial]

Old modding support for quick, easily solved issues

[tepid ember]

stuff that can be solved super quick and dont requiere a post

[violet thorn]

time to post gifs there

[humble sundial]

If something's going to block the channel for a long time or requires more than a few messages to resolve it can be referred to the forum

[acoustic totem]

pins in #modding-quick-support :)

[tepid ember]

[acoustic totem]

so TLDR, if you guys want to make as many basic posts that cover basic problems in #modding-quick-support, we'll then wipe the old pins (presumably a lot of redundancy there) and pin the new stuff

We'll only open the channel to users once we have a set of quickrefs in pins

[violet thorn]

can anyone post there?

brain failure issue

[vagrant cipher]

They're not all entirely redundant

[violet thorn]

tile tutorial is good

[tepid ember]

modding roles can

[violet thorn]

oh so like

modding-dev but help oriented

[tepid ember]

we could make a pinned post with all the assistence support links to guides

palette guide, tile/prop creation guide, the tile appearence gallery...

and the region lease too i assume

palette guide is just too good, even if you are not making a palette it helps to understand a lot of things, it deserves to be easy to find, lemme go find all the links

[humble sundial]

Might be nice to take some time to archive the pins that aren't relevant anymore

[acoustic totem]

oh yea we'll let scavbot run loose in there

actually let me set that up now

[violet thorn]

the creature

[humble sundial]

I mean uh

Archive outside of #pins because it's actually a bit busy I think

[acoustic totem]

hmm

would just a scrolling gif work?

pin snapshot or sth

[humble sundial]

Some of them have clickable links

Maybe just a list of discord jump links to the current pinned messages?

[acoustic totem]

aight

hm, I don't have that knowledge so would someone like to assemble that list?

we def need another modder or two on staff

[humble sundial]

I'm unfortunately very sleepy and on a coach and going to be quite busy when I get back lol

[acoustic totem]

no rush, the main steps before we start this new format are:
• message link list of redundant pins (both to unpin and to archive)
• new set of quick support pins
• agreement on some sort of clearout of #1023285408450228335, perhaps a posting restriction or post pruning

[tepid ember]

This info should be enough for ppl who dont tend to dive into #modding-resources
Region lease: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14wt42_ZalI5di8zpUFx3WvPWldC_L7SwIbgb_TxOpUk/edit#gid=634960091
Palette guide: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fY_KEpD5RaXHS7Ho-kPee4Fe-xIBp5ilMuQ0-UBG0is/edit
Community editor: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1TlriD672VL00PkJlx5jpP-b5E5YwctKn
Tile gallery: https://imgur.com/a/Vz3Kk

[acoustic totem]

oh nice, so that's good for some basic resources

[tepid ember]

yeah

[vagrant cipher]

What about the tile guide?

[tepid ember]

where is it?

[acoustic totem]

give me a ping when, over the next few days/week etc, we have the first or second (or both) steps done

[tepid ember]

couldnt find it D:

[humble sundial]

If nobody beats me to it, I will try find the time to grab a link for each pin in there. That could be this evening but it could also be more like Tuesday evening or later

[acoustic totem]

aight lush

def no pressure

[humble sundial]

I'm going back to honk shoo mimimimi

[acoustic totem]

schleep well

[tepid ember]

sleep well

[violet thorn]

Jevmen

[tepid ember]

whats the difference between "close" and "close and block" posts?

(so far im gonna assume "close and block" closes the post and prevents the poster from posting again, so im not gonna touch that )

[violet thorn]

close and blocks sending new messages I think?

[tepid ember]

doesnt a closed one already dissapear?

[violet thorn]

idk

[humble sundial]

Just use close

Only delete if it's spam/inappropriate/whatever

[tepid ember]

[raw niche]

I missed where to do this - could I get perms too? considering I read every modding-support post

(although if I don't idc. less for me to do lol)

[winter merlin]

dont give bro perms it would be funny

[acoustic totem]

OH given!!

[winter merlin]

https://tenor.com/view/metal-gear-anguish-venom-snake-scream-big-boss-gif-16644725

[tepid ember]

wrayk 0 - Bro 1

[raw niche]

this is not a win for me

[tepid ember]

there is no thing such as a win

[raw niche]

I have now cursed myself to an eternity in modding support

[acoustic totem]

modding support propaganda

AND YEA I'M VERY SORYR

I will do my best to respond quickly to pings when the appropriate steps are taken in order to move onto the next step in the transition and thereby reduce the overall workload by shifting the emphasis onto a much less intensive channel type

[tepid ember]

also, when closing a post is necessary to say that the post is being closed because: "reason" or just shadow-close it?

[raw niche]

probably should say why, since people might search it later

[humble sundial]

Unless it's obviously been resolved I usually give a little message

Doesn't need to be a lot

[raw niche]

yeah if it ends with "thank you, this fixed my problem" then it doesn't need anything

[humble sundial]

@acoustic totem

ah

discord doesn't embed md files??

????

okay then

epic embed failure

bruh

[violet thorn]

MAJOR embed failure

Casheww asked to stop modding

[winter merlin]

cashewww rolls worst embed of all time, asked to leave #modding-dev

[humble sundial]

3 in a row, ban me and end my suffering

[humble sundial]

promise I haven't forgotten about this, but I'm really busy and won't be able to work on it for (hopefully just) another 2 weeks

[acoustic totem]

[tepid ember]

the late income on coding content in #modding-dev has really changed the channel, i have heard some ppl say this is just some temporal hype because of downpour and slugbase, but definely this wont be stopping, finding leveleditors arround that arent burried in the code has been considerably harder, and commenting about posts in #modding-gallery★ or #mod-releases is near useless because it will soon be burried, i dont know what meassures can be taken to prevent this issue.
The only idea i have is to keep #modding-dev as it is but create private channels for modding artists and moding coders to have a less crowded work environment, this however only partially fixes the issue of new modders sometimes being burried into the flowing chat and leaving because of lack of attention/help, since modders can still choose to use the public channels rather than the private ones, which doenst fix much + new modders dont have the roles to access those channels.

The other idea would be to straight split #modding-dev in 2 for levelediting and coding which is better for newcomers who dont have roles to have some help to get into modding.

whatever you guys think is appropiate, i do think the current situation is too much for this chat

something has to change

doesnt staff have access to channel activity stats? i wonder what the numbers actually say

(also #region-jam-porting still exists)

[queen merlin]

I think the real issue is that coding problems are being put in #modding-dev when #modding-quick-support exists. Maybe unlocking the channel would keep #modding-dev more open for design feedback for any type of mod

Actually, is that channel still locked?

[raw niche]

yes, channel is still locked

and will be until "we" reorganize it

(and by "we" I mean you)

[tepid ember]

(and by "you" they mean casheww)

[humble sundial]

I have mentioned that I do not currently have the time to do this

I put jump links to all(?) existing pins in the markdown file(s) I sent above. The next job that needs doing is removal of unnecessary pins

tbh though, the #modding-quick-support could probably be unlocked for general use in the meantime - it just means that we can't have a new set of pins until it is done

on a similar vein of organising our modding support (general term, not the channel),

• the modding wiki needs a big stamp on the front saying that it's lagging behind but edits are welcome
• if people feel it is in a semi reasonable state, it would be really nice to have more visibility of the wiki from this discord ( #server-announcements would be nice, gwyn briefly mentioned this a while ago)
• would be nice to have a replacement for #1023288872005808239 on the wiki where anyone can edit posts (case: I had to ping dry recently to update a post, not a massive problem but an FAQ on the wiki would resolve this)

[humble sundial]

@obsidian gust @queen merlin @raw niche @acoustic totem @tepid fulcrum thoughts on this specfically?

[winter merlin]

i think it should be unlocked, seems fine rn and is functioning as well, if not better than modding support used to

though the whole 'does help for developing mods/troubleshooting issues go in dev or support' thing still exists

also imo maybe region jam should be locked again until someone decides to port either of the two. its collecting dust faster than a #movement collects black magic

[humble sundial]

Deleted a Markiplier meme from region jam channel yesterday

[winter merlin]

sorry I will do a jacksepticeye meme next time

[acoustic totem]

aight I'll unlock it now

like you guys say it makes sense to keep things moving :D

[vagrant cipher]

@acoustic totem are there any considerations to not having modding gallery posts like these: #modding-gallery★ message

I feel that it fits more art gallery than modding

Same with just screen shots of it in the menu

It doesn’t really show much for modding

Recently there’s been a lot of it

I’m also willing to hear anyone else’s opinion

[winter merlin]

Imo, if it’s going to go in game, it fits in modding gallery. Ofc, it being shown off in game is better

But doesn’t matter too much

[tepid ember]

i agree with Dry here, i would add some exceptions tho

if the project is well known/relased (beecat, friend, wanderer) or the art is acompanied by footage of gameplay i dont see an issue with it

otherwise, a concept draw of a future campaign slugcat that doesnt really exist yet is more fitting for #rw-oc-gallery★

i think we should differenciate
"[slugcat name] finally got its own hibernation screen, thanx to [author] for making it, will be available next update"
from
"so here is an hibernation screen i made of a cool slugcat concept i have in mind, i dont know code yet but hopefully i will figure out how to make it"

i am also finding the high amount of recent art excessive and i hope some regulation is put to it since art its designed to stand out visually, which kinda steals the attention from whatever else is being posted

If it comes with footage (like in this post) it feels more fitting for a modding gallery and more likely to actually be relased too, which is a way to make sure the draw at least has a mod to back it up and is not just a concept for the future #modding-gallery★ message

[humble sundial]

Since we have already had this discussion elsewhere, I will just echo what I said last time: I (and others) honestly don't think that it's frequent enough for it to actually cause problems. I can only count 4 in the last 2-3 weeks of gallery posts

With several posts per day I don't think it's a big deal

I see about 4 of these posts since 27th Feb. Total post count since then is 121

[tepid ember]

4 in 2-3 weeks? thats not even remotely close
march 12th had 4 of these posts in 1 day making 5/12 of the posts that day some sort of just art

[humble sundial]

Links? I see 3

Unless you're counting topi and lex's drought post

That day is also an outlier afaict

[tepid ember]

we are having like at least 1 per day

14: nymph, (snorkel cat?)
13: spider cat
12: topi's, apple's, drought's, supernova's
11: none
10: friend, thenivy's
9: beecat

this is not even close to "4 in 2-3 weeks"

[humble sundial]

I'd contest nearly all of these

nymph is a mod that exists
topi is an established slug modder, drought is drought
friend seems to be well on track
beecat is a mod that exists

[humble sundial]

I thought you said you wanted to differentiate between projected mods and mod concepts

[tepid ember]

right now im counting posts

not which i like and which i dont

and there are a lot of posts

[humble sundial]

"don't like"??

[tepid ember]

.

[humble sundial]

I think you need to be clear about your proposed criteria because I clearly don't understand what you mean

[tepid ember]

i said im just counting posts

you said there were just 4 posts in the past 2-3 weeks, i said there is no way thats even close to the truth and i counted them

[winter merlin]

#1023298427590824020 getting heated

If the volume increases to the point where we may need to redirect some stuff to art gallery in the future so be it, but honestly modding gallery still isn’t too active and it’s not like I’m unhappy to see some cool scug art

Modding gallery’s channel description says it’s for showcasing in progress mods and teasers. Any art depicting an aspect of a mod could be considered a teaser

Compared to art gallery where it’s a constant stream and meme gallery where it’s pretty high volume if you count the stuff I keep deleting

[humble sundial]

counting posts doesn't mean a lot if you don't give your criteria for counting them lol

[humble sundial]

I disagree with most of the examples you've given, and would say they belong in modding gallery, as they have been in the past

[obsidian gust]

Jevmen, whether you like it or not, there's a part of modding that requires art. We would redirect art not actually used in-game, but selection screens are.

I actually asked Tyxaar about the new design because it doesn't look like it's used in-game.

[tepid ember]

why me

also how do you differenciate what is being used in game and what is not

are you gonna ask every person who posts an image that isnt in the selection screen itself?

[obsidian gust]

select screen, dream scene, cutscenes, sleep screen, ascension screen

things like concept arts go in #rw-oc-gallery★

[obsidian gust]

You're the most complaining person about this subject

[tepid ember]

this is my first public mention of the issue here

[sleek sand]

Chaos

[tepid ember]

ayo gwyn, may i get the perms back?

[acoustic totem]

for what sorry?

[tepid ember]

the uh

closing posts in #1023285408450228335

lost them when i left

[acoustic totem]

uh u snooze u lose lol

maybe some other time, we're adding new modding helpers soon

kinda a lot of work to re-add permissions if you leave

[tepid ember]

i see

alright

[sleek sand]

[covert shuttle]

hey @tepid ember, what do you think about the current situation of #modding-dev

[tepid ember]

you know what i think about it

[raw niche]

"yeah and since you know there's no need to talk about it"

[covert shuttle]

I honestly still believe the main issue (at least right now) is the rapid influx of people needing help for their custom scugs

but it could be anything at any point

[tepid ember]

its current situation isnt really good due to overpopulation, really feels like one of the most active channels currently, but that may be just a feeling, i dont really have access to specific stats. Splitting the topics is pretty much the only solution to this kind of problem i can think of, 1 channel is just not enough anymore for how much the server has grown

there are a few ways we could do it

either topic related channels for the most gigantic projects like slugbase as you suggested Vigaro

or splitting Code and Roommaking since currently is a mix of people making their custom slugcat + someone showing their latest rooms + someone asking for basic advice

i really dont want a forum.. people just dont use them even if they dont really work bad, is the sad truth

[covert shuttle]

yeah

[sleek sand]

[covert shuttle]

I think threads would be fine, if not for it requiring people to constantly direct people into them

[tepid ember]

threads are a bit more consistent than forums yeah

but nothing beats a solid new channel

[raw niche]

but threads are much harder to find, which is their biggest downside

[winter merlin]

:3

its like an egg hunt

treasure hunt

find the threat

thread

[sleek sand]

One thing that I see along this time is forum sometimes never replied

[tepid ember]

yup, i feel like conversations would be cut often to simply redirect people to the right place

[covert shuttle]

hey wrayk, create us some fresh new modding channels

[winter merlin]

no <3

[raw niche]

imo, a lot of the traffic in modding-dev is people with the same problems looking for the same solutions. Better wiki info, and better debugging stuff would go a long way I think to resolving this traffic

[tepid ember]

lets accept that people never self research

[sleek sand]

Modding-dev
Ledditor-dev

[tepid ember]

lediting is modding lol

it would be coding

[covert shuttle]

we could try to create rain world docs for the most common stuff

like the player class, sprites, etc

[sleek sand]

Codding-dev
Ledditor-dev

[tepid ember]

you are assuming people would read those docs tho

[sleek sand]

[raw niche]

like all the people who come in modding-dev saying "why isn't my region loading" when there are a dozen possible issues and the game doesn't handle any of them (thanks Andrew) so half the time it takes 10 minutes of chatting to talk through every single problem that's possible, veryifying what is and isn't the case...

[covert shuttle]

but the people who need help probably wouldnt read docs

[sleek sand]

That should be a problem

Some people hate reading the documentation

[tepid ember]

most*

[raw niche]

however, I'm currently trying to solve this specific issue, by adding world exception handling to CRS, that'll hopefully be clear enough that all modding-dev would have to do is say "read exceptionlog"

but for other issues with mods like, say, slugbase

[covert shuttle]

that's what I did for DMS

[tepid ember]

we should really assume the worse case scenario:
-people dont read self document help
-forums are often non descriptive, abandoned or never used
-threads are very hidden

[sleek sand]

I like reading the documentation for modding, I need more documentation for common issues

[raw niche]

ye, DMS handling seems fine

occasionally somebody comes through and we tell em to go to the server

[sleek sand]

That's so real

Actually all of them is happening rn

[covert shuttle]

I always try to log what went wrong with a descriptive message whenever it is something related to the user setup

too bad you can't do that for all of rain world

[tepid ember]

most people will try to mod without CRS

i recall it from the old times

pretty much any new modder had to be told to use CRS because they started merging

[sleek sand]

What's CRS?

[raw niche]

"why isn't my region working"
"install CRS and read ExceptionLog"

it's that shrimple

[tepid ember]

"how do i install CRS?"

(jk)

[sleek sand]

It's the Catch try mod?

[raw niche]

nah

[covert shuttle]

[raw niche]

CRS is Custom Regions Support

[tepid ember]

no, it makes a lot of stuff

[raw niche]

it's unreleased, but hopefully releasing soon

[sleek sand]

Ohhh

[raw niche]

I think all the core features are basically done, some bugs to stamp out and then it should be fine

[tepid ember]

i still dont think the CRS solves the #modding-dev issue at all

more like support stuff

[raw niche]

I'm not saying CRS specifically

[covert shuttle]

most issues right now come from new coders

[raw niche]

I'm saying things like CRS but for every field of modding would cut out 50% of it

[covert shuttle]

even with docs I'm not sure we could solve that

[sleek sand]

Not at all maybe 10% 20% assuming that the most new modders don't like to read documentation

[tepid ember]

is there any issue with splitting channels at all? each time this is brought up its avoided for some reason, its the most straight to the point solution here

i dont see any downside at all

[raw niche]

that's a question for staff

[tepid ember]

of course

[sleek sand]

I think that the modding dev channel is right but sometimes the codding stuff and regions stuff mixes so bad

[raw niche]

I'm doing everything in my power about it, though, and I prefer to talk about solutions that'll Actually Happen

[covert shuttle]

I'd be happy with modding-misc modding-code modding-leditor modding-scugs

[sleek sand]

Damn

[tepid ember]

you are already speaking as if the staff wouldnt allow that to happen

[raw niche]

they Haven't

that's all I'm saying

[tepid ember]

have we even asked?

ever

[raw niche]

not that they Won't

[sleek sand]

Maybe the Staffs don't like that

3 channels more

[tepid ember]

we should really have this kind of conversation with a staff involved

[raw niche]

haven't you?

[tepid ember]

nope

[sleek sand]

Yes, but the only powerfull staff is Wrayk

Only we have 1 staff for all the modding section?

The rest are helpers?

[tepid ember]

this sounds fair, perhaps 1 could be cut out but its pretty much the way to go

[tepid ember]

not true

[sleek sand]

You know about the other modding staffs?

[raw niche]

Wrayk is still in training

Gwyn has been in this channel quite a bit

Dakras is also staff and is a modder

[sleek sand]

Ohhh I see

[tepid ember]

you can ask pretty much any staff, but better if you just ask someone actually involved since they would otherwise tell other staff to handle it

[tepid ember]

gar too

[sleek sand]

It's possible to ask that 4 staff?

[tepid ember]

its better if we actually have a conversation with them involved, dropping the "we have decided this" doesnt really achieve the same

is like one of those "we need to sit and talk" moments

[winter merlin]

fear me

[sleek sand]

Ohhhh

[winter merlin]

for i have become death, destroyer of off topic

[sleek sand]

Yummers!

[raw niche]

problem is very few of them are available. Gwyn sent 12 messages today, Gar sent none and is very rarely active, Dakras is around a fair bit and Wrayk

[tepid ember]

yup

[sleek sand]

I've never seen Dakras talking

In modding dev

[tepid ember]

rather than dropping a "hey how about we do this this" for them to read, we should instead ask them if they have a moment to talk

[raw niche]

they're honestly not too active here, but over in modhole they are

[sleek sand]

I need to make mods

[raw niche]

I know Gar's busy with irl tho, and doesn't have much time for RW. Don't know about Gwyn, but wouldn't be surprised if they're in a similar situation

[tepid ember]

gar is the definition of busyness

[tepid ember]

from my experience gwyn is very active

but sometimes isnt

[raw niche]

the people who get staff tend to be "healthy" and "healthy" people don't spend all day chatting on Discord

[raw niche]

ye that's roughly what I thought, but searching from them I'm not seeing too much activity

[tepid ember]

probably just uh, ping them and see if they have a moment in their agenda lol (or however is called)

[sleek sand]

Agenda maybe schedule?

[tepid ember]

yeah that

[sleek sand]

Do you speak spanish?

Genial

In this server I see a lot of Spanish speakers

[tepid ember]

also i hope this is handled publicly

most ppl will have something to say after all

[sleek sand]

What do you mean by handling that publicly?

[tepid ember]

you know

[raw niche]

(they don't know)

[winter merlin]

clueless

[tepid ember]

so we dont get a reply like "we will discuss that with staff" and then either nothing changes or the change isnt really what we expected

[winter merlin]

hey Jev I will discuss this with staff (I wont)

:3

but hey if you have server suggestions you could shoot a staff a ping

[tepid ember]

i have done that a few times

[sleek sand]

A dev ping maybe?

[winter merlin]

well, staff are under no obligation to take suggestions, especially if they are low volume

[tepid ember]

i know well

[covert shuttle]

oh

[sleek sand]

so we dont get a reply like "we will discuss that with staff" and then either nothing changes or the change isnt really what we expected

[winter merlin]

i love wells

[covert shuttle]

WE SHOULD PROBABLY SCREAM LOUDER THEN

[winter merlin]

https://lirp.cdn-website.com/16e30595cbed4906a996ea8c707f21bd/dms3rep/multi/opt/1565254-ThinkstockPhotos-184205478-640w.jpg

well posting

[sleek sand]

Well moment

[winter merlin]

idk vigaro do you think the rather extreme seperation of lediters and coders would be worth the more organization of either?

(plus what about non lediting or coding modders)

(like uh, music/art)

[covert shuttle]

modding-misc

[winter merlin]

or asset editing

[sleek sand]

This is interesting

[sleek sand]

misc is miscellaneous?

[winter merlin]

yep there are quite a few music makers and people who make art for others mods

[covert shuttle]

lediting and coding are the two major branches of modding, so I do believe they deserve their own channels

any leditor talk is currently buried under the avalanche of new coders

[winter merlin]

true, but like, what if I wanna hang out in a modding place without having a focus on a certain element

[sleek sand]

And not just coders, leditors too

[winter merlin]

a misc, a coding, and lediting chat?

[covert shuttle]

modding-misc

[raw niche]

I'd argue asset editing is an equally major branch

[winter merlin]

and not just the leditormen, but the leditorwomen and leditorchildren too

so would DMS go under lediting or coding :3?

[covert shuttle]

DMS has their own server

[sleek sand]

Whopsss?

[winter merlin]

it fits under the modding artist role

after all

[tepid ember]

ye

[covert shuttle]

avoids all of the issues

[winter merlin]

well not just DMS

but asset editing in general

like Sunhat

my beloved

[covert shuttle]

dual should port sunhat into dms

[winter merlin]

Vigaro should port dms into sunhat

[covert shuttle]

everybody copies code from sunhat for custom scug sprites

[winter merlin]

yoinkers

[covert shuttle]

so I guess it is the ultimate asset editing mod after all

DMS is but a newcomer in sunhat's shade

[winter merlin]

to the best of my knowledge 95% of CRS region mods used the folder template of other CRS regions as a base

I wonder which was the first

[tepid ember]

is it really a template when its literally mandatory?

[winter merlin]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/810259259472347166/970079743716233267/snaildance.gif

[covert shuttle]

isn't sunhats CC0?

lemme just port it myself and steal the credit

[tepid ember]

i gotta sleep

if this is brought back again someone ping me

[covert shuttle]

but back to the topic, I do believe splitting modding-dev into misc code and lediting would help a ton

[tepid ember]

im with vigaro on this

goodbye

[winter merlin]

goo

[tepid ember]

tho, i would make lediting also accept music and custom tiles.. etc, anything "physical and visual or purely artistic for a project"

and code, well, code is code

[covert shuttle]

lediting would include regionmaking stuff in general imo

that makes a lot of sense

[tepid ember]

yep

[sleek sand]

Yes

[violet thorn]

Solution: end modding

[sleek sand]

[glacial grotto]

what's this thread for?

[covert shuttle]

discussions about the channels themselves

[glacial grotto]

So like

Another shitpost channel?

[covert shuttle]

no, it is for proper civilized discussions on how to handle the modding channels structure

[glacial grotto]

That doesn't seem too hard to figure out on your own

[tepid ember]

[covert shuttle]

I agree, just give me all the permissions and I'll make it good

[tepid ember]

its a great idea

[sleek sand]

[tepid ember]

contact, mission accomplished

[covert shuttle]

[tepid ember]

we can rest in peace now, its been an honor

[sleek sand]

[raw niche]

not sure if any admins are paying attention to this thread, but could we rename #modding-quick-support to have modding in the name? Like quick-modding-support or smthn? too many people think it's for non-modding support and direct people there

(also some pin cleanup for that channel would be nice, half of them are useless now.)

[winter merlin]

[raw niche]

thank you wack

[winter merlin]

i will redirect all people who complain about long render times there as a place to get support for making modding go quicker

[raw niche]

btw -> #region-jam-porting message

[winter merlin]

goo idea