docs-website

[neon epoch]

oke thanks

[spice temple]

It's almost always people doing stuff they don't understand, so we should guide them away

[neon epoch]

whos this guy lighting up my inbox

[spice temple]

lol

maybe I should learn to properly group my comments as a review

[neon epoch]

haha, dont worry. Realistically i would think it would group them together under a single chain but

[neon epoch]

I've addressed all comments I know how to, there are some broader comments at the end that I may not have addressed like about calling the pathfinder every tick

[neon epoch]

https://github.com/LeavesMC/docs/pull/39/files#diff-edab072076a52fab0e7757c9601d24bf20dbd15947ae3ca1b9325df1190f8294R146-R153

What have they done to my code good lord

[still apex]

embed scare

[spice temple]

lmfao

[lapis aspen]

written in chinese too

oh nvm

i thought they were contributing to real paper

[still apex]

<@&748618676189528155>

[mental sleet]

(65b6bd8f2d5bd6481a064801) // @vapid tundra (@drew7651 / 680256296871788560) has been banned by @ancient quiver (1098722699116810331)
Reason: nsfw ad spam

[ancient quiver]

merci

[neon epoch]

https://paste.ollieee.xyz/yufivafigo.sql

I started working on something but my painfully lacking knowledge of the parsing commands is kinda making it really jank. if anyone wants to have a look youre welcome to :)

[spice temple]

Why not write it all in JS

Half of it is js already, just rewrite the jank stuff in JS too

[echo canyon]

gotta be an action that already does this... can't be a unique thing. Could even be some general spellcheck thing

[jagged pecan]

Looks good except the comment at the end:
If it's not immediately fixed, every change to the pr will make a new comment

And since it also triggers on push, there might be an error trying to create a comment on the commit in the same way as a pr? Idk

[spice temple]

Would be better to hook into whatever GitHub uses for checks

[jagged pecan]

i created this since i was board: the ::error:: thing creates annotations on files after they are detected
https://github.com/456dev/github-app-test-spell/blob/main/.github/workflows/spell.yml
https://github.com/456dev/github-app-test-spell/pull/2/files

the biggest issue atm is probably when pring not on a fork, as it gets run on push and pr, so the annotations sometimes get duplicated
https://github.com/456dev/github-app-test-spell/pull/1/files

and also it not showing the column, even though i gave it that information

[neon epoch]

Ah thanks I’ll read this later

[drifting slate]

On the How Plugins Work page in the Permissions section, I have a few points to adress:

1. I think the way sub-permissions are explained is a bit misleading, because unless Paper implemented the perm-system of Sponge where permission.a grants permissions like permission.a.1 is it afaik not like that? I recall it always being hardcoded in the sense that a permission is only for this particular check and does not include other perms, unless defined so in a plugin's plugin.yml... I talk about the default perm behaviour here when Permission plugins like LP aren't installed (Which allow sponge-like permission inheritance behaviour).
2. Should the * behaviour be mentioned (That it grants access to any sub-permission, if included in one like permission.* and grants all if defined as-is)? If mentioned, maybe as a warning that it is not recommended behaviour to grant permissions like that, as it opens a large security risk.

Also, the configuration section implies that plugins only use YAML, even tho they can utilize other file types (or even non-files like databases) to store and access data.
Maybe change this to mention that the server offers a configuration API that allows the plugins to create and manage files using the YAML format?

[neon epoch]

Sounds logical, PR it!

[eager plover]

Yeaaaaa, whoever wrote that, darn

So, also, * is not a bukkit/paper thing, that’s something that perm plugins provide

[young matrix]

re: the "no british spellings" thing, something I wanted to look at more a few years ago was using some proper linter like https://vale.sh/

never really got far with it though beyond deciding that spending any time on tooling wasn't worth it then, but taking another look now still looks promising

[neon epoch]

i love branching from a branch

[neon epoch]

ive run it on the paper admin docs and after about 5 minutes it still has not completed... idk if this is me being dumb but its just like hung

[young matrix]

oh rip

[neon epoch]

@drowsy zinc made a config which made it performant but there were 800 errors in the grammar of our docs

[drowsy zinc]

the base styles are very opinionated

[young matrix]

yeah I would def not use their provided base ruleset, or at least minimize it a bit

[neon epoch]

Yeah I was not a huge fan of their docs but I was tired and my eyes weren’t working so I’ll look another time

[young matrix]

Not my project anymore lol and I didn't look too far into vale at the time either so by all means don't use it

[mental sleet]

(65bdf4ad2d5bd6481a064812) // @terse nimbus (@gaethanos__ / 349156006414123019) has been banned by @fair river (177150983258767360)
Reason: spam bot

[drowsy zinc]

experimenting with languagetool (the same stuff IJ uses), seems promising, but it'd need to be tuned to work with mdx

plus it has a way to automatically apply the rules unlike vale

[neon epoch]

Ah cool

[radiant summit]

Ollie check the latest issue plz

probably lost in notifications or you're intentionally ghosting me

[neon epoch]

im ghosting

[radiant summit]

or is it ghousting in British

[neon epoch]

yeah the notification came thru whilst i was in the shower just forgot

[radiant summit]

why do you.. nvm

[neon epoch]

i was not on my phone

it was simply in the vicinity and heard the bzzzzzz

[radiant summit]

you have phone push notifications from docs

give this man a raise

[neon epoch]

bish bosh bang done

13 minutes

[radiant summit]

hey @neon epoch

the entire point was to yeet the 12+ section from Aikar's flag

read the linked cat's message lmfao

ik that I no longer recommend aikars 12G+ tweaks because that pretty much WILL cause issues these days

[neon epoch]

oh

well reading isnt my strongsuit you hid it in a linked message

[radiant summit]

HID IT?

I literally changed the issue's title

[neon epoch]

literally asking for issues

in future, i would like to request more red arrows

[eager plover]

There is not enough red ink in the world to cater for the hole in your IQ

||I'm just, british, I'm a nice person, I swear||

[neon epoch]

i believe you. I've been called a lot worse for a lot less

[radiant summit]

||yeah, when your bipolarity turns to the other personality||

[eager plover]

||Sometimes I just get a little tsun 😦 ||

[drifting slate]

||I don't know you enough, but still want to give that comment, so.... "Sometimes"?||

[radiant summit]

Ollie gonna close your PR if that's fine

[neon epoch]

Already did it

But yeah, fine

[radiant summit]

how about we ditch the short command entirely

and just link to the script generator

[neon epoch]

Sure, up to you

[radiant summit]

oh it's already there

Use our Startup Script Generator to generate a startup script for your server.

[outer elk]

https://docs.papermc.io/paper/aikars-flags

[still apex]

nvm

[outer elk]

https://docs.papermc.io/misc/tools/start-script-gen

[still apex]

meant that one yes

[radiant summit]

hey @eager plover

are the explanations, etc. on that page still up-to-date

[still apex]

[no-ping]

[radiant summit]

idc ban me

[eager plover]

The flags intend to do the things the do there

The only sorta like “long term” question is more on the size tweaks in those flags

The adoptive algorithms of the jvm has progressed substantially in the past few years, how often do we see somebody without his flags having noticeable gc issues without them?

[radiant summit]

not often

but maybe we don't have many people with GC issues because most do use the flags and they do help still

[neon epoch]

I marked it as done and approved

[radiant summit]

le merged

[mental sleet]

(65bfd0852d5bd6481a064819) // @still apex (@powercas_gamer / 292616490958454795) has been banned by @ancient quiver (1098722699116810331)
Reason: crypto scam

[sacred socket]

@ancient quiver it wasnt powercas gamer running the scam

LMFAO

[ancient quiver]

OH FUCK

[sacred socket]

hes a notable member of the community

he pinged mods to report the other guy

hahahaah

[radiant summit]

XD

[ashen sage]

tsk tsk tsk

[ancient quiver]

I blame discord's terrible autofill

[fair river]

SAVING IT

[still apex]

rude

[sacred socket]

bro lost his roles

[opal flare]

https://tenor.com/view/sadhotgirl-gif-23622451

[still apex]

i just keep getting abused here first eternity now noah 😦 ||/s|| #spicy-general message

[eager plover]

maybe you should learn to dodge

https://tenor.com/bo3ox.gif

[twilit pivot]

LOL

[radiant summit]

let's go Ollie

not much left

[neon epoch]

You know I’m not actively trying to be number 1 lol 😂

Sulu put a lot more legwork in at the beginning

[jagged pecan]

Just want to make sure my workflow didn't get lost: it uses ripgrep, which I've found is practically instant, with the result parsing / formatting taking longer as-is (and less time than GitHub takes to set up a run (12 seconds for whole run, 5 seconds for running the stage)
https://github.com/456dev/github-app-test-spell/blob/main/.github/workflows/spell.yml

[neon epoch]

Oh yes sorry I forgot, it did get lost

Does it work

Oh and things like when PR’ing does it run doubly and stuff like that

If we can avoid

[jagged pecan]

So currently the case it runs doubly is a pr from a branch in the paper/docs repo itself

But that could be prevented by just running the branch check on the main branch, and rely on pr for all others

[jagged pecan]

Yeah I got it working, with the results published as annotations on the pr and stuff

[jagged pecan]

Actually looking, it looks like since the pr triggers on more events, you can have multiple runs on the same commit, so multiple annotation sets

Looks like the cause of this one is triggering the pr event on "edited" which I think is pr title

[neon epoch]

Ok cool. I’ll take a look when I have time. @drowsy zinc is working on a proper spellcheck action but yours will work for just British for now 😁

[drowsy zinc]

[jagged pecan]

yeah thats fair. probably the other issue is since it uses 1 regex pattern, it doesnt know exactly what matched, so cant eg suggest fixes without extra parsing

[rancid yacht]

https://pastes.dev/ZvufQ3bNKH
is this a bit too much to ask from docs, or should i just create the issue and see where it goes

it'll be closed anyways if it's too much so created

[neon epoch]

I mean material is deprecated for removal imminently

It’s being split into item and block types

[fair river]

@rancid yacht hey just wanna say I appreciated you taking an interesting in doc writing

[neon epoch]

https://tenor.com/view/come-toward-the-light-liane-cartman-eric-cartman-south-park-s7e4-gif-22283170

[rancid yacht]

then it will be useful for migrating, since there are no Material -> namespace etc

[neon epoch]

I can’t lie it was about 1am when I read it, I’ll read it again later 😄

[rigid bluff]

@neon epoch Your are the docs manager right ?
Is there planned to add a page for quick start of paperweight ?

[spice temple]

[spice temple]

What exactly do you mean? There's a userdev guide already

[rigid bluff]

https://docs.papermc.io/paper/dev/internals
I never saw that. I searching everytime for the specific "string" named: paperweight

[still apex]

?

[rigid bluff]

Maybe i am Stupid

[neon epoch]

Yeah there is one already :P

[neon epoch]

Yeah I’m not completely against this idea I’m just not sure if the docs are the place for it. It’s gonna be one helluva page

Maybe input from others here?

[rancid yacht]

i thought about adding a data generator in paper for this and other data which is dumped into json files

there will be a default of the latest version of those files in assets, and the tables would be autogenerated for this file

also since datapacks (and soon paper plugins on bootstrap) can change the data (right now by adding their own tags or changing what items/blocks are tagged), players may put the file generated by themselves if they really need to see the custom data from their server, but this only if it can be done without uploading but just parsing the file on the browser

[eager plover]

inb4 tools.papermc.io

[rancid yacht]

so this was already planned? 👀

[spice temple]

no

[eager plover]

No, I was joking about us basicaly having to setup our own tools site instead of tryna litter the docs with various tools

[rancid yacht]

idk, if you don't consider this fit for the docs then ok

otherwise I would even learn properly the front end just to make this myself

as i think this will be used by a lot of people, as javadocs are too scary for many novices

[eager plover]

I never said no

I'm just wondering how much in terms of "magical tooling" makes sense to be on a docs site, which is generally more intented to be a static thing

having some automation on there is nice for trivial aspects like the presentation of the version in the "how to add paper to your project", but, I question where the line comes in terms of "this really would be better off on a more dedicated tool where we're not bound to the whole 'it's a documentation site'"

[neon epoch]

I’m also hesitant to buttfuck vercel with this json

Like it’s gonna be quite expensive to serve

[vocal halo]

I still don’t understand what this could be useful for

[neon epoch]

Eh it would be nice to be able to search thru them and filter for like items and blocks and see namespace keys but it won’t be as useful once they are split which I hope will be .21

[vocal halo]

I think the effort would be too high compared to its usefulness. The POTATOES / POTATO issue could easily be avoided by checking if the user accidentally typed POTATOES and replace it with POTATO during runtime. And as you said. As soon as Material is split this problem most likely doesn’t exist anymore.

[neon epoch]

At runtime? Nah that sounds horrible. That should just throw an error

[vocal halo]

Or that. Depends on the use case.

[eager plover]

I mean, items are items and blocks are blocks

[neon epoch]

I think that I can see the utility of this, but I don’t think docs is the place for it. I also think this is something to consider in the future once we are able to pipe stuff directly from a Paper CI run into docs

[eager plover]

once the seperation occurs it's generally gonna be harder for people to "mess up" once that occurs, as a lookup against the items list will fail

[vocal halo]

^^

[rancid yacht]

1. javadocs are very confusing for newbies, even after the split sending them to javadocs will continue to be a bit overwhelm with info, it's a very great place for code documentation, but not really for administration and configuration of the server
2. the transition won't happen instantly
3. other data of the material (in future block types and item types) like the namespace is just unknown and people just need to lose time guessing and testing

[neon epoch]

The transition will happen instantly. Material will be removed and Commodore will handle legacy conversion based on my short read of the PR a long time ago

[rancid yacht]

and maybe in future plugins will finally use more namespaces and not names from the code, as the namespace is even seen in the client with f3+h, but then it will be hard to migrate

[eager plover]

What Im saying is that documentation is generally intended to be something that is fairly static

"be able to upload a file to from the server and have it parsed", is anything but

[rancid yacht]

i mean in configs etc, i don't think the transition will allow instant guessing if the plugin reads blocks or items from config

[eager plover]

I have nothing against such tooling existing, but I'm not sure that the site which is intended to have static documentation is the best place for that

[rancid yacht]

well, that may be omited, it would just be cool to see the tags that are on the server, but it could be just vanilla built data

[neon epoch]

I think the bottom line is though that unless we can automate this somewhat this ain’t gonna happen as the data is gonna get stale pretty quick

It’s not something I would merge without automation, but I won’t close your issue right now

[eager plover]

That's kinda like, the odd area of this

[neon epoch]

Because I do believe that a page of some sorts that achieves this would be useful

[eager plover]

I want to be able to populate the documentation page with data somehow

Like, I'm not 100% set on everything being static, data generation is something we've wanted for a while for certain aspects, i.e. see the config page

[neon epoch]

Yes, I am completely happy and honestly look forward for some aspects being driven by automatic fetching however I am not the person to design it

Would require a fair amount of work to probably bibliothek or whatever

And that’s without actually generating the JSON

It’s somewhat difficult due to comments and default values

[eager plover]

Well, the idea wasn't so much of fetching as, we put a json file somewhere and the page reads it or we dump out the pages content from the json

[neon epoch]

Go away please

[radiant summit]

https://tenor.com/view/bugs-bunny-bunny-no-nope-nou-gif-14651222

[neon epoch]

I shall be writing all typescript on my phone going forwards

[neon epoch]

@jagged pecan ive been messing around with your script and it doesnt seem to work if i commit thru web UI

[jagged pecan]

is that directly to a non-main branch vs pr? do you have a commit link?

to reduce duplication when pring, it only runs on "push" to the main branch

it can be run on non-main branches, but it would duplicate the checks

[neon epoch]

oh i see

yeah it was a branch

[jagged pecan]

if you open a pr for that branch, it would then run the checks

[neon epoch]

yes. that seems kinda silly tho no? Idk.

i dont normally touch actions if i can avoid it

[jagged pecan]

yeah, ideally id have it run on push for any branch, but the pr files tab shows checks from both "push" events and from "pull request" events

actually maybe i can fix it by only running for prs if the target branch's repo is different to the source branch repo

[jagged pecan]

ok, done, but it might show the inital check twice for local prs, but one will be skipped

https://github.com/456dev/github-app-test-spell/commit/51ab825df155845c7578c633824e6d001ab714dd but its easy enough, and seemed to work well

[neon epoch]

Oke I’ll take another look later

[neon epoch]

I did in fact not look again

Tonight™️

[neon atlas]

we have the PR-atahon tonight anyway

[neon epoch]

We do? Huh cool

I should pay more attention

[green kernel]

That sounds fantastic.

[raw breach]

👀 whats the goal?

[neon atlas]

200 is the copium answer

[raw breach]

why not… 180?

[green kernel]

The War against the Machine.

[raw breach]

lol or even better: a Machine pr marathon. just merge/close all the machine prs

[vocal halo]

I can imagine that many of them are outdated or even still work in progress

[neon epoch]

@jagged pecan can you approve this workflow run please https://github.com/456dev/github-app-test-spell/pull/6

[jagged pecan]

huh ok, done, but it seems my skip check was broke

looking into it now

fixed: missed an object in the event path, so they were both null

[neon epoch]

https://github.com/456dev/github-app-test-spell/pull/7

[jagged pecan]

approved

ill also merge the first one so any future ones should auto approve iirc

[neon epoch]

thanks

seems to work

[jagged pecan]

just checked push only (local branch) and it seems to work there too https://github.com/456dev/github-app-test-spell/pull/8

[neon epoch]

Are we expecting that skipped thing there?

[jagged pecan]

yeah, since it also triggers the pr event for local branches

[neon epoch]

oke cool

[jagged pecan]

specifically, https://github.com/PaperMC/docs/pull/303/files#diff-203285d1aa85b30b7cd672df926f6239c419f1308a5b1cbe3c5df4a0497f1dafR14
checks to only run if its

1. a pr event (so it always runs for pushes)
2. or the repo names from the source and target are different (so the push event doesnt trigger)

[neon epoch]

Cool thanks

[jagged pecan]

Actually @neon epoch , would it be possible to add me as a co-author for the spell check action?

[drowsy zinc]

also, does that account for regioniser x regionizer?

the code uses the former, so might wanna add the latter as unwanted spelling to keep it consistent

[neon epoch]

Yeah I was planning on when I merge it

[neon epoch]

Why does leaf use British

[drowsy zinc]

[jagged pecan]

If you update that to include it, you probably want to remove the message about looking up an American version in a dictionary

[raw breach]

uhh does permission-message even get used anymore? when you try executing a command you don't have permission to it just shows the Command doens't exist message (that behaivour is already mentioned in the docs). Soooo is there just some weird case where it does get executed or is that just outdated docs?

[sinful hare]

Nope

It’s legacy but not deprecated 👀

[eager plover]

No, the permission message stuff was broken when spigot moved over to using brigadier for commands

[raw breach]

i guess it should be removed from the docs then (or atleast mentioned)

[eager plover]

There was some intent to fix it

[raw breach]

honestly seems better not to. what the player isn't allowed to execute he mustn't know about

[remote mantle]

https://tenor.com/view/avatar-the-last-airbender-gif-5253984031697501451

That command does not exist in this server.

[drowsy zinc]

i've tried a more conventional spellchecker (typos) here and expanded its wrongs list with the spelling from the existing PR, lemme know what you think

planned to use languagetool, which provides more styling suggestions, but its CLI is unusable for MD(X) without lengthy preprocessing and I didn't want to roll my own

[neon epoch]

This looks interesting

[drowsy zinc]

by the way, that flagged Paper.FilterThreshhold property, I can't find it in paper's repo to check if it's just a doc mistake or it's actually like that

it used to be in this patch (you can see it if you go to an old enough commit and yes, the documentation is not wrong, it is written like that), but doesn't seem to be the case anymore

[neon epoch]

can we skip the versioned dir please

i dont wanna touch that

[drowsy zinc]

yeah sure

[neon epoch]

it doesnt seem to find the neighbour in config-specs/paper/server-properties.yml

unless im blind

[neon epoch]

I’m blind

[still apex]

we know

[burnt ice]

@still apex

[neon epoch]

PR and supercede @drowsy zinc

[drowsy zinc]

I was so close to turning off my pc for the day

you timed it

[neon epoch]

Oh no hurry

[jagged pecan]

What's the timing per run like?

[neon epoch]

I think it said about 4 seconds

[drowsy zinc]

like 4 secs until it actually fails yea

[jagged pecan]

Nice

[neon epoch]

Unfortunately this is more powerful that your solution

[jagged pecan]

Yeah, I knew mine was only temporary really

[neon epoch]

Thank you regardless

[drowsy zinc]

huh, apparently folia spells it regionized on the overview and regionised on the region logic page

and the api seems to use regionized as well, so we probably want the AmE spelling then?

it's kinda all over the place

[ocean void]

Consistency is not Leaf’s strong point.

[drowsy zinc]

fixed stuff accordingly to match AmE spelling, the classes referenced in the docs ended up being AmE as well in the patch

[drowsy zinc]

if anyone could check whether its usage was really removed or just moved into a different patch, I'd be grateful - having to ignore the spellcheck error pains me if it could be removed

[still apex]

<@&748618676189528155>

[mental sleet]

(65d169202d5bd6481a064845) // @safe bone (@amneedamnee / 506459855490383872) has been banned by @opal flare (105923848263753728)
Reason: Quick-banned for sending a message in #docs-website

(65d169502d5bd6481a064846) // @safe bone (@amneedamnee / 506459855490383872) has been banned by @proper steppe (80853648891977728)
Reason: advertising spam

[neon epoch]

Hope everyone is well - I’ve been a bit AWOL for the last little bit with life. I’m gonna try and get back to docs at some point this week. I’d just like to mention that I’ve seen a few comments floating around about translating docs into different languages. I’ve had a think about this and I cannot see a way to do this nicely without:

• making maintaining existing pages a PITA for keeping different languages at the same level of completion
• increasing the bar to entry for new contributors

For this reason this is something I am not going to be focusing on unless someone proposes a way that I hadn’t thought of. Thanks ☺️

[spice temple]

I think that's everybody's stance so far

And please never feel obligated to do anything, the team and community appreciates your work, no matter how much or regular

[neon epoch]

Haha, yeah I know - just thought I’d give a little update 😝

[fair river]

Yeah paper doc in its current state is already way better than what we had years ago

[scenic gull]

Having outdated docs in other languages feels worse than directing to use a translation tool on the up to date ones.

[last bear]

We can tell people to dm eternity, who will then respond with chatgpt translated docs

[eager plover]

especially with modern translation tools just generally being much nicer, the only way such a document works is if you have like a wiki where people can just maintain stuff in different languages, but, that's how you get divergences, etc

[lean venture]

You could in theory provide a "built-in" auto translation system, would probably make life easier for people that have no idea how to translate a page.

But that could easily lead to issues of terms that shouldn't be translated, being translated.

Which of course would also happen if the user manually translates it, but at that point it was the user translating and not the website itself, which sounds worse?

[scenic gull]

Many browsers offer translation automatically.

[fair river]

I mean if Paper do start to popping off even more, we can setup crowdin officially and actually have a workflow for it. In theory that would work, no?

Unironically, I think with chatGPT doing the initial translate and have human review it later should probably do a pretty good job already

[eager plover]

Crowdin doesn’t really work for long documents

It’s moreso just a “strings” thing

[neon epoch]

Exactly. I’m gonna update a doc in English and it’s gonna lag behind in other langs. it just wouldn’t work, hence i wanted to summarise earlier

[neon epoch]

I don’t mind like a button that auto-translates using deepl but it wouldn’t know what to ignore and also paper would then need like API keys and pay and it’s just not worth ti

[fair river]

yeah nvm then.

[burnt ice]

@neon epoch excuse me? It’s actually your duty as British and doc writer to get these done SMH

[neon epoch]

Good one mate

[distant swan]

in the future you just need a paper-gpt. On the docs page you give it a prompt about ignoring bits and it translates the rest ;)

[lean venture]

paper model when?

[neon epoch]

You can train gpt on paper docs I think

I’ve seen something like this for like gitbook

[lean venture]

I can easily train one

the thing is... it would become expensive af 😭

like 0.002 cents per request, with a project as big as paper can become expensive

but if enough funding is there, you can make a discord bot that answers questions when needed.

[south thunder]

It's cheap

You just need a filtering step

[south thunder]

By the way, training won't work for this, unless you do smth particularly clever with the dataset

[lean venture]

why wouldn't it?

[south thunder]

Finetuning is not great at incorporating knowledge, especially domain-specific one

It'd be possible to hammer some knowledge into the model like this if you have a massive and very high quality dataset, but that's not very viable to build out of docs

This is a very hard to solve problem in natural language processing, if you check e.g. OpenAI's own support bot in their server, they haven't quite figured it out either, the bot doesn't work that well

However, it's pretty viable to make a cheap bot that does bqsic contextual searches, or responds to very common questions if they exactly match something in the database, I'm currently working on this

[lean venture]

I mean, it's not the best, but it's decent in assisting.

(This was only by providing the "Getting started" section of the docs)

[south thunder]

What's that UI

It's not difficult to make something that answers direct questions such as this one, it's just that once you try to ask it anything moderately complex it'll go downhill really fast

[lean venture]

mind giving an example? I will try it

(preferably one that can be answered with knowledge from the docs)

[south thunder]

How do you handle questions that can't? That's the harder/important part

[lean venture]

"I don't know." xD

There are pros and cons on both sides yet.

Since, like you said, finetuning is still not good enough.

But listening to specific questions with a predefined answer can work and can't... what about spelling mistakes? Totally rephrased sentences?

You could potentially use some type of binary tree style thing with words, but it's also not that efficient.

Although, unsure if they use AI or not, Pterodactyl has done a decent job at this.

[south thunder]

That's simple, GPT/embeddings will catch these

[south thunder]

Ask "why is my world migrated from Forge to Paper not starting up?", for example, see if it brings up the reasons outlined in the docs

[lean venture]

yeah doesn't properly work lol

[lean venture]

so a mix of ai with normal FAQ?

[south thunder]

My workflow currently is to have a little pipeline for each common question (FAQ)
It's as follows:

1. Have a list of keywords, of which the user's message must must have at least one, even if it's very general, as this already eliminates a lot of candidates (optional)
2. Make a database of a few very different rephrasings, could be 5-10 as long as they're fairly different
3. Embed them and throw into some sort of vector database
4. Prepare a model that will classify whether a given query matches the exact question, e.g. asking ChatGPT something along the lines of "is the following query asking about migrating from Paper to Forge/Fabric/Vanilla? Answer Y/N", (The prompt won't be as simple, it's just a simplification) and this is sometimes worth making into a finetuned model, for this kind of classification they work pretty well with not much data
5. Now, when a user sends a message in chat, run through the three filters in order: keyword filter -> embeddings filter -> the confirmation model above (as the first two steps are very very cheap)
   The embeddings filter will just compare the user's query with the reworded questions in the database, we can just calculate similarities with all of them and average everything out. Then, check if it's above some threshold before passing it into the selection model

It works pretty well, and if we use a finetuned models we can bias it into producing more false negatives (err towards not answering the question at all if unsure if it's a match, which imo is better than false positives), I just haven't implemented that one into my bot yet

[lean venture]

makes sense, I had this insane idea some time ago which I wonder if it would work, which is using SoundEx.

You input a text like "Afonso" and it outputs how it sounds, so "A152", "afomss/oos" would return the same input, which can be useful imo, I wonder if AI uses it in some way.

[south thunder]

Nah, language models work with tokens

[lean venture]

yeah makes sense

[mental sleet]

(65d6695b2d5bd6481a064855) // @winter pecan (@abbyaqua / 727092698133168158) has been banned by @small harbor (215448923681062913)
Reason: Quick-banned for sending a message in #docs-website

[neon epoch]

Heya, as much as I love merging prs without any approval, would anyone mind looking at https://github.com/PaperMC/docs/pull/293 - I have the intention to be in VC later working on docs. Hopefully at a more reasonable time 🤭

[neon epoch]

I really really really hate css

[spice temple]

I had to explain the flex box algorithm to my apprentice today and I am not sure she understood a thing

[neon epoch]

Like... Ugh

[spice temple]

Mmh?

[neon epoch]

i want it on top

not within the container

but like

my brain doesnt brain

[spice temple]

The scroll bar? Guess you have an overflow scroll somewhere

Scrollbars aren't the default

[neon epoch]

ugh yeah thanks there was a lurking overflow-x

[lean venture]

why? it's so cool lol

I mean, I don't work with vanilla css since idk when

Tailwind on top

but yeah

[mental sleet]

(65d9373f2d5bd6481a064860) // @wraith sand (@babasss44 / 375407210353786880) has been banned by @eager plover (126975485493248000)
Reason: Quick-banned for sending a message in #docs-website

[mental sleet]

(65da20af2d5bd6481a064861) // @stuck grail (@whiron06 / 764944995157016636) has been banned by @eager plover (126975485493248000)
Reason: Quick-banned for sending a message in #docs-website

[vocal halo]

what about only providing translations for config files since that is probably the thing users look up the most?

[fair river]

Config file will be in English though. Maybe the text that explains them? I can see that being manageable

[drowsy zinc]

not sure whether translating only config descriptions is worth it

might as well translate everything, but then you run into the translations being outdated way too fast

[fair river]

I think the idea is nice and since we have decent amount of people willing to contribute

It would increase the accessibility for everyone

[drowsy zinc]

I agree with this personally

[raw breach]

is that worth the effort tho when most browsers already have translation tools built in

[vocal halo]

Yeah. I thought that was obvious sorry.

[vocal halo]

Translating everything would be 100x more effort than only providing support for the config file section.

[drowsy zinc]

yeah but imo it doesn't make sense to translate only that one thing

[vocal halo]

I think it makes at least as much sense to justify it.

[scenic gull]

Once. They'll contribute once. Then we'll have some great work and a bunch of [insert translation here] for new content.

Love the joy of having one enthusiastic person who does everything beautifully for a language and then disappears and nobody else speaks the language but you're afraid to just delete its now half outdated self because it was so well done.

[fair river]

Yeah I can see the concern of maintenance burden but the setting wise largely don’t change much I feel. We may just need more slaves contributors

[drowsy zinc]

or someone just comes up with a usable machine translator integration

[scenic gull]

But browsers do that already ...

[south thunder]

Well, to be fair, browsers usually use Google Translator which is pretty bad

Even though I'm not sure about automatic translation, do docs have a note of using DeepL or something? I feel like that's the most viable thing, redirecting the user to a better tool

[drowsy zinc]

firefox has a homegrown one which is even worse

at least it works offline

[south thunder]

Ouch lol

[fair river]

If anyone is interested in a simple PR,

we want to include Velocity branding in our asset page https://docs.papermc.io/misc/assets
From https://github.com/VelocityPowered/Branding?tab=readme-ov-file#usage-directions

[radiant summit]

I mean I know I could maintain pretty much all of the docs translations for Polish

just probably not that many people to dedicate a significant amount of time translating regularly

[neon epoch]

So imagine you get hit by a bus just as I merge docs for new tooling on a major release and no one else speaks polish very well. What happens then. This is my problem… i think it’s better just pointing people at some sensical translator

[distant swan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor

[lilac edge]

went down a rabbit hole looking at that and found this cool website https://deviq.com/

[radiant summit]

Any way to have some built-in translator tho

[neon atlas]

The quality of built-in translators seems questionable to put up on a website

[radiant summit]

I haven't seen a browser prompt to translate a page for years but that may just be me

[neon epoch]

The fact that this is a thing, I love it. I didn’t realise when I wrote it lol

[spice temple]

It's in the url bar

Plus it also depends on your settings, I have set my os to English and German so it will never offer to translate that

[eager plover]

I have the deepl extention installed, but ^

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/9628507/how-can-i-tell-google-translate-to-not-translate-a-section-of-a-website

https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/dom.html#the-translate-attribute

[neon epoch]

wdym you cant test it cat? You can just apply a translator to the preview

[eager plover]

I have no idea how to force it to do that and my eyes are ouchy

or, well, I guess now that it's on vercel I can shove it through google translate

[neon epoch]

if you wanted, you could swizzle the code block components as well

[eager plover]

google translate already handles those

[neon epoch]

ah cool

thank you cat

[vocal halo]

@neon epoch what do you think about converting the plugin.yml page to the same format as other config files?

[neon epoch]

Hmmm I’m not opposed to it I just don’t know how it would look

[drowsy zinc]

seeing adrian's PR, canceling x cancelling should be added to the spell checker

[drowsy zinc]

idk whether the single-L variant should be the wanted one; bukkit has Cancellable and stuff, but /shrug

either way, while you're at it ollie, add cancellation, cancelled and cancellable

the checker is a bit too dum

[neon epoch]

That will probably make the CI fail tho for the event docs

I just made that change from my phone

[sharp pivot]

since i've seen it mentioned a few times recently i think it would be nice to add a "to singleplayer" section to the migrating to/from page that would cover using an nbt editor to move the data from playerdata/uuid.dat to the data.player in the level.dat

[neon epoch]

There’s not an automated tool for that?

Surprises me

[lean venture]

Fr, I can make a rq app to do that if ya wish, can do it tmr probably, just gotta first find out how to migrate to singleplayer haha

once I know what needs to be done, I can easily automate that with a java app.

[neon epoch]

Sounds brilliant 😂

[lean venture]

Although if ya want a web tool then a bit harder on my side

just lmk if I should do that app. Will probably use the good old swing xD (we already use it at school so, why not, that + a dark UI makes wonders)

[vocal halo]

uhhh

more content for tools.papermc.io?

automatic conversion tools

[lean venture]

wait that exists?

[vocal halo]

no

but there were talks

[lean venture]

there's https://toolbox.helpch.at

[vocal halo]

cool

but

[lean venture]

which funnily enough contains some cool tools but sadly their website is laggy af

no idea why

[vocal halo]

tools.PAPERMC.io

[lean venture]

I can read, was mentioning the fact that helpchat also has a tools website

[vocal halo]

ah ok

[lean venture]

Anyways, lmk if I should do this or nha

[vocal halo]

the startup script generator would also fit more into a tools site

instead of docs

[neon epoch]

I don’t know about doing web nbt manipulation lol

[lean venture]

me neither 💀

[neon epoch]

That may or may not be possible

[lean venture]

hence why I said if it would be web based, I wouldn't be able to help xD

[vocal halo]

certified spring backend moment?

[lean venture]

I mean, if you are doing a tools website, then at least add more than just one tool xD

I figure this would require some extra work to make rather than just having the script in the docs or a java app to migrate to singleplayer

[neon epoch]

Welp, someone can make that. I ain’t doin it

[vocal halo]

i mean, the startup script generator and the conversion tool would be a good start i guess

someone wanted to add a table of the Material enum a while back but idk if thats happening or not

[lean venture]

conversion would require backend work... unless it's possible at the frontend level?!

[vocal halo]

but yeah idk im not a team member and dont know about whats planned or whats not planned

[lean venture]

helpchat's toolbox works at the frontend level if I am not mistaken?

[vocal halo]

but helpchat doesnt modify nbt does it?

[lean venture]

Ngl, I would love to work on a few prototypes for a website like this if I am allowed.

[lean venture]

it does not, hence why ^^

[vocal halo]

same tbh. Sping was quite fun in class

[lean venture]

I wanna try to do it at the frontend level ngl

[fair river]

We gonna need a tools.papermc.io now 💀

[lean venture]

ngl not the worse idea... Having some parsers, validators, etc. there would be nice

scripts, converters

only requirement is that it uses Svelte 😎

[neon atlas]

weird way of spelling react

[vocal halo]

both cant spell flutter

[lean venture]

💀 react, imagine... just imagine using react in 2024.

Vite + Svelte + SvelteKit + Tailwind = Best thing in the world

[vocal halo]

imagine using the 30284th js frontend framework

[neon atlas]

[lean venture]

Svelte 🔛 🔝

[vocal halo]

fake

[neon atlas]

developer popularity is a rather useless stat

[fair river]

I know HelpChat has one

[lean venture]

Shit, Astro catching up....

[fair river]

https://toolbox.helpch.at/

[neon atlas]

time to switch our techstack to astro

svelte so outdated

so trash

[vocal halo]

@fair river

[lean venture]

that's actually interest xD

if we go to usage, ofc react is at the top

quite normal

But in terms of interest and the one devs are happier with

Svelte is on top

[neon epoch]

Go look at docs.papermc.io

[vocal halo]

nah lets just do all on backend and just use thymeleaf for the few buttons and upload fields

[neon epoch]

Silly guy

[vocal halo]

that should do the job

[lean venture]

svelte still better ngl

react is just the current standard

[neon atlas]

smashing together flavour of the month tech in our org is useless

[lean venture]

like angular once was

[neon atlas]

we are already using one tool set

[lean venture]

ik

I assume next.js for backend?

although isn't hangar done with vue?

[vocal halo]

hangar is technically on another org

[lean venture]

oh?

so papermc overall uses react and next, hangar uses vue and nuxt? Understood

interesting actually

yeah me can't help, very limited knowledge with react, never had the interest.

[drowsy zinc]

where does paper use next lol

[lean venture]

idk, I am assuming things

[vocal halo]

https://github.com/PaperMC/website#learn-more#

[drowsy zinc]

ah website

[lean venture]

yes.

Ik they use springboot too

[vocal halo]

spring is just goated

[lean venture]

ngl it's on my list of things I want to get into

but still gotta improve knowledge with SvelteKit

better have one good techstack than several average ones

[spice temple]

Let's not turn this into a tooling debate

The website being react is just what the person writing it was comfortable with and we were happy we were getting a new website

It wasn't a conscious decision

[lean venture]

It was not meant to be a tooling debate, I am not screaming for you to switch to something else, after all, react is standard for a reason...

Although this convo started with we speaking about a tools website and yeah, still inconclusive xD

[spice temple]

React isn't a standard

[neon epoch]

React is just powerful and very popular

[lean venture]

according to statistics, I would say it has become "standard" in some way.

maybe not standard like, idk, python for ai stuff, but it has gained quite a big chunk of ground

[spice temple]

That number is misleading since the total is greater than 100%

But again, this isn't the place

[lean venture]

meant to represent that 82% of the people that answered use it.

[lean venture]

And yes, true.

[spice temple]

I use it too, if I have to, but I also use others

That's why it's misleading, it's not asking for the primary or favorite

[lean venture]

Fair enough.

[fair river]

Yeah I was massively scrolled up.

[neon epoch]

bump

[drowsy zinc]

[neon epoch]

Thank you

crazy how things just magically get done

[drowsy zinc]

true

[drowsy zinc]

the sunsetting message's padding looks pretty odd on mobile

[neon epoch]

So it does

[spice temple]

It's a quick POC I threw together, hopefully I'll have time to refine it tomorrow

Oh, it's the docs, didn't even see that yet

[vocal halo]

Sunset velocity?

Shouldn’t it be sunset waterfall?

[neon epoch]

Oh yeah, didn’t think about that

Waterfall is now cancelled

As well as velocity

Thoughts @twilit pivot ?

[vocal halo]

No more waterfall?

Or just updates as usual?

[serene vault]

waterrise when.
But yes, no more waterfall, probably after the next minecraft update

[vocal halo]

good.

[fierce adder]

couldn't we make the sunset message into a danger block?

[neon epoch]

lol

I tried that, it looked not great

[fierce adder]

Btw, you did some incorrect grammer in the pr @neon epoch, I’ll add a review when I wake up tomorrow

[spice temple]

holy hell why is the format script so fucked on docs 😄

it just destoryed my whole workspace

[neon epoch]

Yep…

[spice temple]

dont have passion to fix that today but I can help with that some day

[neon epoch]

Probably remove the border left @spice temple

[spice temple]

ye looks better

[neon epoch]

Needs a comma: For more information**,** see the announcement

[drowsy zinc]

also and of life lol

looks good, but the contrast between the red bg and the blue link on dark mode is killing my eyes

[drowsy zinc]

submitted a PR for fixing the prettier config, lemme know what you think

wasn't sure about what quotes to use, but double ones as default had a smaller diff so /shrug

[spice temple]

Is double a German thing?

[vocal halo]

yea

english is single quote

[neon epoch]

I use double

[vocal halo]

maybe im mixing it up with " " and „ ”

[neon epoch]

bet u guys feel dumb you dont have the papermc docs app

[neon atlas]

gimme

[neon epoch]

its just a chrome window

i am pretty sure

dumb as hell feature

[raw breach]

what do you even need to do to have chrome ask you to install an app for it?

[neon epoch]

honestly, no clue :P

[spice temple]

It really really isn't

For the docs it may, but for a proper pwa it makes super sense

I.e. at work I do all the cloud shit in a vscode instance that runs in the cloud too, that works at a PWA I just add to the desktop and it becomes as smooth as the real vscode, since it stores all files locally

[mental sleet]

(65ecaac42d5bd6481a06489f) // @cursive ivy (@srlinpar / 618408433858904065) has been banned by @eager plover (126975485493248000)
Reason: Quick-banned for sending a message in #docs-website

[last bear]

There's no command api docs, is there?

[vocal halo]

Wouldn’t it make sense to wait for brig api for that?

[raw breach]

just wanted to ask regarding this issue i made like a couple of months ago https://github.com/PaperMC/docs/issues/251 (i know i am pretty late on this ). but i don't really get your point "That included a lot of information about the patch system which isn’t used here". Someone wanting to contribute to paper, would probably want to learn about exactly that right? (considering this kind of patch system is pretty unique) i was just thinking of some kind of "for info on the patch system and general rules to follow when contributing see our Contributing.md"

[vocal halo]

The thing is that the papermc docs shouldn’t document how patches work (I think that’s what Ollie is talking about). I think the contributing guidelines is at a good position where it is right now.

[ocean void]

Yeah, patches aren't a uniquely Paper thing.

Just like the Paper docs shouldn't explain to someone what git or Java are.

[vocal halo]

I also tried moving it to the paper docs but it just didn’t fit and would mostly be a copy paste anyway

[raw breach]

yeah that's why i was thinking about referencing it and not copy pasting the entire Contributing.md into the docs

[raw breach]

i mean yeah but java and git are way more known then patch systems

[spice temple]

A patch is just a commit tho

It's how git worked before we had GitHub, lol

You would mail around patch files

[raw breach]

i mean yeah but when i first saw papers repo structure i was like wtf is this? i guess it also just depends on who is looking at it. a dev with 10 years of experience of just 1 year. though if we already have docs regarding contributing to paper, i don't see a reason why not to reference the file where all the important commands and formating things are listed.

[green kernel]

Do you mean contribution md? In the end embedding works.

[raw breach]

yes.

[neon epoch]

Deliberately wasn’t doing that until the Brig stuff.

And if that was what you were thinking about, no I haven’t written them yet

[neon epoch]

I think I might have misunderstood your issue, however the paper repo structure is gonna be changing in the short to mid term so I don’t think this is worth committing time to

[high narwhal]

is there an issue on the downloads page or is it just me? https://papermc.io/downloads/paper it doesn't seem to load properly / allow me to download

[drowsy zinc]

the API is having issues

[neon epoch]

U make good points @fair river - I linked your guide for optimisation but really not an area I’m familiar with too much - it is very opinionated tho I agree

[fair river]

Yeah I point it out on the GH to bring discussion here. I am not entirely oppose the idea but I want to mention it still.

[vocal halo]

Are you talking to someone specific with this:

Contribution is always welcomed; however, it is always good to communicate via Discord with our maintainers before proceeding to avoid doing extra work.

[fair river]

Yeah I want them to run though with @neon epoch first

And discussion on GH can get spammy on people’s inbox.

[vocal halo]

Yeah true 😅

I was just confused at first

[neon epoch]

#1129091109742727228 message

Wow

[drowsy zinc]

[vocal halo]

Do we? I only see that we mention "do backups" and not how to do them.

[neon epoch]

Ah. Maybe needs rewording then haha

[neon epoch]

Documentation always wraps on mobile - how do we feel about renaming Documentation -> Docs so that we dont have this weird wrap

[copper minnow]

^yes

[shut delta]

Definitely

[drowsy zinc]

someone forgot to run prettier on the configuration page PR

[spice temple]

Why is prettier not running in actions?

[drowsy zinc]

PR'd, not sure whether the action is fast enough though

looks manageable when the deps are cached

[vocal halo]

<@&748618676189528155>

[mental sleet]

(65f588ec2d5bd6481a0648ba) // @weak laurel (@koitheblub / 1076817962213838879) has been banned by @ancient quiver (1098722699116810331)
Reason: scam spam

[ancient quiver]

finally, no collateral damage

[vocal halo]

Fast enough for what?

[drowsy zinc]

nvm I thought it took a few minutes, a minute without cache is good enough

[heady bronze]

What about including some basic backup options to point people in the right direction without being overly detailed?
Ex. Just ZIP the server, use a backup plugin, use something like Borg or Rsync

[eager plover]

Because providing options generally implies vouching for them

and using plugins for backups is always stupid

(though, if you're running on windows or limited environments, you probably have little choice)

[heady bronze]

That's fair, if you list it you'll be expected to support it even if you say otherwise.
I assume a lot of cases backup plugins are the choice between doing that or not having any backups, so even if not a great solution better than no backups

Use your host's backup system is probably the most general advice, but there's no way to cover how to do that besides "go ask your host"

[eager plover]

See, I'm not 100% against adding examples of them and maybe linking to high quality guides elsewhere, like, DO has a few good articles on general sysadmin stuff

[neon epoch]

That would be me 😁😁

[fierce adder]

[still apex]

ollie forgot to run prettier...?

[neon epoch]

Yes

[scenic gull]

Proposal:

• Make clear that paper-plugin.yml is entirely optional in that warning.
• Make clear that paper-plugin is not required to unlock paper api.

[neon epoch]

Approved

[lean venture]

do paper-plugin.yml automatically make it a paper plugin or...?

or is the usage of loaders, etc what makes it?

[spice temple]

the yml does trigger another load path

[vocal halo]

Couldn’t we just load the plugin.yml and check for an option like “paperPlugin” and trigger the load path later?

I don’t really understand why there is a different file anyways

[timid mulch]

The paper-plugin.yml is exactly the option you described.
It is another file because it is experimental and the syntax is in important parts different. It also has different options: It accepts class loaders, The definition of dependencies is different and most important you can't define commands there.
It is just better to not make a mess with an existing working file but do it in a different place.

[vocal halo]

I know what paper-plugins can do. And the default paper-plugin.yml can also be loaded by Bukkit. It just ignores the paper-plugin specific options.

[spice temple]

Because spigots plugin loading sucks

[still apex]

?????

[spice temple]

Papers plugin loader behaves differently around dependencies for example, which would be a behavior change we didn't feel comfortable doing

[vocal halo]

I think you generally misunderstand my comment, so let’s stop this.

[timid mulch]

If you have 0 dependencies, yes.

[eager plover]

except it can't

Like, yea, sure, you can rename it and the common properties will load, but, part of the entire reason why we went for a seperate file name is fallback-ness

i.e. you can have two entry points, one for paper, one for spigot

part of it is also so that we could break the format, i.e. see how dependencies are declared

[vocal halo]

2 different entry points is a good argument yeah

In the end, I am sure you had your reasons when deciding this.

[still apex]

<@&748618676189528155>

[ripe ledge]

Why might I not be able to access any paper sites? I get this when I try using any paper site https://gyazo.com/f0f1ee9c5ab207e00eaeb9277e7a4fd2

[neon atlas]

was probably in the process of re-deploying

try again 😅

[ripe ledge]

I had this issue yesterday as well, I am on a school network if that makes any difference?

[drowsy zinc]

it should work while redeploying as well

[neon atlas]

hopefully, eh I mean, invalid cert authority is sus

scuffed school computers might be using be an outdated browser?

[ripe ledge]

It's my own computer, tried with different browsers and got the same result

[neon atlas]

Ehh, school might have an SSL proxy then?

[ripe ledge]

I'm not sure, I came here for anwsers, but guess it's got something to do with my schools networking then?

[neon atlas]

Well, if you can access the pages outside the school network, the school network seems like the likely culprit 😅

at least in my experience, school networks tend to have some rather scuffed setups

[eager plover]

You would need to look at the certificate

many institutional networks have website blockers which generally act sideways on https websites

[vocal halo]

The school probably blocks the site 🤷🏻‍♂️

Papermc -> Minecraft = bad

[neon epoch]

Not lynx coming for my job

[neon atlas]

[neon epoch]

@drowsy zinc mind giving it a final review?

[drowsy zinc]

[neon epoch]

[cursive portal]

Do i get any role for contributing the docs

[ocean void]

Nope, just the joy of being a contributor.

[neon epoch]

No, but thanks!

[drowsy zinc]

[stoic glade]

I am getting ERR_CONNECTION_TIMED_OUT when trying to access the javadocs, any suggestions on how to solve this issue?

[eager plover]

What javadocs?

[stoic glade]

Paper's jd

[eager plover]

Well, the latest JD page is working here

[stoic glade]

Yeah, it is likely something to do with my internet connection

When I switch to a VPN the issue goes away 😩

[eager plover]

Like, we proxy through CF, so all I can guess is network configuration type stuff

[stoic glade]

I see, thanks for the assistance!

[ripe ledge]

Yeah, turns out it’s because they are blocking “bad” websites 😟

[neon epoch]

@cursive portal your CI failed

[spice temple]

do we have a migrate to velocity page that outlines a few differences in how you do stuff?

or is stuff so easy that it doesn't matter?

if we had it would go here I guess, lol https://docs.papermc.io/velocity/migration

I have no idea about proxies so not sure if something like that is even needed tho

[eager plover]

Honestly just need to rm -rfv the velocity docs one day

[neon epoch]

are you rewriting them cat?

[neon epoch]

I think yeah this is the migration stuff, not really comprehensive though. someone like @fierce adder maybe wants to write some more?

[fierce adder]

let me check this out

[fierce adder]

why?

[eager plover]

I just find that they're hard to reference

and if they're hard to reference I can only imagine that they're hard to follow

[fierce adder]

I guess, it seems like a lot of people don't understand the player forwarding section or can't find it?

maybe thats something we would improve on

[eager plover]

There is no "follow through" for the guide

Like, you can't be sent to one page to walk through it and end up with a secure proxy setup, it's like a confusing offbranch to two seperate pages, for ex

[fierce adder]

Yeah, that page is old lol. I would honestly love to but I'm not sure on exactly what needs to be added, I also gotta study for a test tomorrow so I can't really do anything right now.

[neon epoch]

this is not urgent, good luck for your test

[fierce adder]

yeah, thats a good point. When I first read the docs, I was basically just reading every page because I didn't know where to go. And even then I had to re-read a bunch of things.

[neon epoch]

but, if you wanted to add some random stuff about conversions then that would be great

[fierce adder]

ofc, I'll check it out tomorrow :)

[fair river]

I think a revisit and maybe a follow-along style guide will be awesome. (Just for the proxy section) as I found many people who don’t even understand what a “proxy” is

Most common one is just people thinking that “velocity” is the lobby server.

[fierce adder]

yeah, for sure

[vocal halo]

For the waterfall eol PR. Have you thought about changes to the front page of the docs website. eg. Moving waterfall all the way to the bottom, adding a eol badge next to it, or something like that?

[neon epoch]

Changes to red on hover

could swizzle the navbar if people were interested

Like this is what i mean

[fair river]

any icon for archived...? That actually does the oppsite to bring attention to it

[neon epoch]

valid

thats the icon that is called "archive"

[fair river]

cant we apply thanos snap animation to it

[neon epoch]

yeah its only visible for the first 10 seconds of the page visible

and then it dissapears lol

[last bear]

Make the Waterfall text 95% transparent

[fair river]

maybe just a simple greyout or apply some transparent would do...?

[rugged bay]

Strikethrough perhaps?

[neon epoch]

0.4

[rigid bluff]

oHH MISC

[fierce adder]

@neon epoch, why don't we remove it entirely 😉

[fierce adder]

strikethrough def looks best

[spice temple]

Whatever changes you do, please also do them to the website for consistency

Or leave a review on the website PR do I don't forget

[neon epoch]

Sure, so far I’ve only copied you

[spice temple]

Perfect

Just wanted to make sure we don't miss anything

[vocal halo]

I don’t think it looks good to be honest

It doesn’t fit into the Navbar

[serene vault]

Not really a fan of any of them tbh. gray looks like its selected, strikethrough just looks weird.
Maybe a small red "EOL" badge instead?

[fierce adder]

yeah but I mean, its better than a random gray color

[fierce adder]

I mean, its hard doing that in a nav bar though ;(

[vocal halo]

Or just actually remove it from nav bar

🤷🏻‍♂️

[fierce adder]

yeah, that's what I said lol

but thats not the only place it comes up too, so we'd have to make sure to remove it from all navbars

removing it from the navbar isn't that bad anyway because it makes sense to only show software thats maintained unless you go to some other page

like for example right here it would be easier to add a EOL badge and just remove waterfall from any navbar https://papermc.io/downloads

[vocal halo]

I thought you meant it as a joke cause 😉

[spice temple]

https://site-git-drain-papermc.vercel.app/downloads

thats whats planned for the website

[fierce adder]

ig it kinda was and at the same time not.

[fierce adder]

something like that looks good yeah

I like the red buttons but the EOL header is really red and bright. Shouldn't it be the same as the docs?

[still apex]

maybr ad a hover over it? That explains that it's deprecated / eol

[vocal halo]

I honestly don’t know if the box at the top is really needed. Have you tried making the text under “Get Waterfall” red?

[spice temple]

its not designed to look good

its designed to scare people and drive them away

[vocal halo]

If you say so

The space between the red box and “Downloads” is also weird

[fierce adder]

this looks fine other than the top header maybe being a little much, it is needed to drive peole away though

[fierce adder]

for sure

[mental sleet]

(65fd7d9e2d5bd6481a0648d6) // @proud sundial (@jamdzu / 771828196898242580) has been banned by @ocean void (188417437295706113)
Reason: NSFW spam

[scenic gull]

I'm not sure the box is big and flashy enough!

[fierce adder]

I think just fixing that padding would be enough

[spice temple]

for visibility https://github.com/PaperMC/docs/issues/325

[last bear]

oof here's an old one for it from before the new era of docs https://github.com/PaperMC/docs/issues/21

[ocean void]

B.D.
Before docs

[spice temple]

ye sulu dug it out, there is enough into to get started on a page I guess

[spice temple]

well, we had docs, we just had no ollie ^^

[neon epoch]

Looks good, I’m not gonna get a chance to look at this for a little while if anyone else would like to write this as a PR!

[neon epoch]

Thanks @vocal halo I’ll read through at some point later probably

[vocal halo]

Yeah its by far not finished

just what i imagine it could look like

[sacred socket]

wait why is waterfall being removed

[neon epoch]

An announcement will come in due course!

It is not being removed though, just EOL

[vocal halo]

it sucks and isnt really maintained anymore

[sacred socket]

i still use it

[vocal halo]

besides upstream updates

[small harbor]

people still use 10 year old bukkit plugins but that doesn't mean you should

velocity has existed for quite some time

[sacred socket]

wdym

[vocal halo]

then i think everyone here will recommend you switch to velocity

[vocal halo]

exactly what michael said

[sacred socket]

whats the difference

i use waterfall

[small harbor]

it's not bungeecord based

[sacred socket]

yeah but its good

[vocal halo]

no

switch to velocity and you will never want to look back

[small harbor]

velocity solves most of the performance issues bungeecord/waterfall suffers from

and a better developer experience

[sacred socket]

what does a proxy do

[small harbor]

you run waterfall but you don't know what a proxy is

[vocal halo]

• doenst it have a more secure connection?

[small harbor]

and that

[sacred socket]

the server runs it

[vocal halo]

what

[sacred socket]

the server owner is running it

idk what it does

[small harbor]

i mean

doesn't sound like it's your problem then

[vocal halo]

i thought you use waterfall

and not a random server owner

[sacred socket]

im just wondering what does a proxy do

[sacred socket]

well im the co owner

[vocal halo]

connecting multiple servers basically

[sacred socket]

oh that would make sense

[vocal halo]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_server

basically that but with minecraft servers

[sacred socket]

u see this one

why doesnt alice directly ask bob for the time

instead of having the proxy act as a middleman

[swift gull]

what..

[timid mulch]

@sacred socket I suggest you to read the docs of Bungeecord when you want to know what it is.

[sacred socket]

how does it not make sense

[ocean void]

This channel is for updates to the docs. If you have general proxy questions you should go to #waterfall-help or #general

[small harbor]

do we actually even have a what is a proxy docs page

don't think we actually explain what velocity is anywhere

[fair river]

It’s in the plan.

One of the requested feature

[ocean void]

So no, not currently.

[fierce adder]

I feel like it would be helpful to write docs about how velocity is a proxy and what a proxy is but I feel like, people using it, should kind of know what a proxy is. If I was writing docs for a vpn, I wouldn’t write a whole page about what a vpn is or why it might be needed. If you’re looking at documentation for something like that, you should already know what the software does.

[eager plover]

I mean, it's a matter of context; people looking for a VPN generally learned what a VPN is for already, at least in the proper sense of a VPN

not everybody looking for velocity knows what velocity is, they just heard that setting up a network is easy and fun and woo, servers! or something

[fierce adder]

True but I guess we could just have a short introduction then, maybe link that Wikipedia page as a Learn more here

We really just need to fix the velocity docs as a whole

[eager plover]

I mean, a proxy misses the "multiple servers" aspect unless you show an LB proxy

it's probably worth it just to add a paragrapth or two as to what a proxy is and why you'd use one

"used for letting you hope between servers in one session, and can also be used to host ingress elsewhere (i.e. VPS, but, might want haproxy for that instead)

[fair river]

Yeah I think this would be nice and if anyone willing to contribute that will be epic

The introduction page should make assumption that one doenst know what a proxy is and a brief explanation for like one paragraph should be enough imo.

[jagged pecan]

Is there a specific reason haproxy is the TCP proxy of choice? Is it just because they made the proxyv2 protocol?

[eager plover]

Basically, yes

I mean, not that they made it as such, haproxy is basically just the minimal solution here

you could use anything that implements the proxy protocol, like, nginx supports it

[jagged pecan]

Nginx
Caddy with the layer4 plugin
Envoy proxy
Traefik
Cloudflare spectrum (enterprise)
Haproxy itself

[eager plover]

The description is mostly for beginners, the idea is maybe to add a not to something more appropriate for a specific usecase in which has a relatively simple configuration that you can google for

[jagged pecan]

Yeah

[fierce adder]

I’m sure exactly how it should be explained but essentially velocity is just a gameserver proxy specifically made for Minecraft. We could explain that in the gameserver world, you need to hop around servers and stuff.

[raw breach]

is everything supposed to be red when hovering over it? i thought that should only be for waterfall

[eager plover]

https://tenor.com/view/jarvis-jarvis-skill-issue-skill-issue-gif-24471438

[raw breach]

welp ig all PaperMc projects are eol now

[eager plover]

leaking

but, yea, that is a derp

[still apex]

ollie bad

[raw breach]

that's what happens when you merge prs without approval lol

(oh nvm mini acutally merged that)

[fierce adder]

Lol

[raw breach]

also did the project names always redirect to the github?

[still apex]

yes

[eager plover]

https://github.com/PaperMC/docs/pull/330

[spice temple]

Project.eol && "whatever" is a more concise way of saying that

Iirc react also has an object syntax, {{"something": true, "some other class": project.eol}}

[drowsy zinc]

does that work correctly when concatenating to a string though

typing "" + (false && "test") into a console yields "false"

[eager plover]

I thought that that one was provided by some util method thingy?

My eye hurts and I kinda wanna finish off this 'tech challenge', so, if somebody else wants to improve it or whatever, go ahead

[spice temple]

Am on the couch, I can try it tomorrow

In Vue it works without special lib shit

But react do be stupid, so idk

[drowsy zinc]

I would just use a backtick fstring like everywhere else

[eager plover]

I was using tailwind merge for the thing I was thinking of

[neon epoch]

I’ve merged it for now, if anyone comes up with a better way we can just change - thanks for the report and fix ❤️

[lilac edge]

was it this? https://www.npmjs.com/package/classnames

[eager plover]

that looks like one of the options available

[neon epoch]

That looks super simple to implement

Could be worth it

[young matrix]

that is already used in other places

or at least was

ah just with clsx instead of classnames - seems to accomplish the same thing though

[spice temple]

So it's not a react feature?

Smh

[spice temple]

ok, className={"projectGitHub " + (project.eol && "archivedProjectTitle")} turns into projectGitHub undefined and projectGitHub archivedProjectTitle, lol

className={{projectGitHub: true, archivedProjectTitle: project.eol}} turns into [object Object]

[lilac edge]

right

[spice temple]

className={clsx({projectGitHub: true, archivedProjectTitle: project.eol})} works as expected

insane that you need a lib for such basic stuff in react

https://github.com/lukeed/clsx/blob/master/src/index.js

its 228B minimized, lmao

[lilac edge]

there's a "lite" version that's 140 bytes lol

[spice temple]

can even do className={clsx("projectGitHub", project.eol && "archivedProjectTitle")}

[lilac edge]

def looks more clean than the object syntax

[spice temple]

https://github.com/PaperMC/docs/commit/3987a20dcb7ec0fd6650e2286840eda7203d6ef4

[lilac edge]

some more chores regarding clsx:

1. inline style could be turned into a css class that uses clsx
2. ternary operator here
3. another inlined style
4. another ternary operator
5. and another ternary operator
6. inline style
7. inline style
8. inline style (although it's dynamic so could be skipped)
9. ternary operator

[spice temple]

dont have time to do that rn, so feel free to PR or open an issue

(battling gradle rn, wooooo)

[lilac edge]

i do not envy u

[spice temple]

I also plan on looking at paperweight patcher later today so you dont have too ^^

[drowsy zinc]

the lowerCamelCase class names are also pretty concerning, should be kebab-case like the rest probably

[lilac edge]

where do you see that?

[neon epoch]

Everywhere

I think I use kebab but a lot of the original CSS uses camel so there’s a bit of a mix

[lilac edge]

there's some snake_case as well lol

[neon epoch]

lol

[lilac edge]

you and your usage of anchor tags instead of Link components smh

[neon epoch]

What’s the difference

[lilac edge]

https://docusaurus.io/docs/docusaurus-core#link

basically; Link component = instant loading, anchor tag = refreshing the whole page

and some other fancy stuff behind the scenes

[neon epoch]

Ahhh cool

[lilac edge]

@neon epochwas there supposed to be styling in the dropdown of the script generator flag for a selected flag type? there's no dropdown-item-selected or selected class, so i'm guessing it's an oversight https://github.com/PaperMC/docs/pull/331/files#diff-2f3095b4ce3d91ad1945b2b62d5ecda708034aad3757be558773943f2e7832b5R211

[neon epoch]

It just doesn’t exist tbh

Like, you click on it, you set those flags. If you reopen it, you can set new flags. Didn’t bother having a selected at the time

If you wanna add it, be my guest :)

[lilac edge]

[neon epoch]

Awesome

[static garnet]

[neon epoch]

ok enough testing, time to set my phone back to uk time

[fierce adder]

Nah

[raw breach]

maybe we should consider having the start script gen add a pause at the end for when windows is selected (considering most people insane enough to run a mc server on windows are going to just double click the bat file instead of running it from a terminal) since without it the terminal will just close when the server stops for whatever reason.

[hot glen]

@fierce adder

[vocal halo]

is the docs site accessibility compliant?

[neon epoch]

pretty sure it is, april fools? maybe not

@lilac edge This slider is pretty innacurate now, it was not great before, but it was centered so it was minimised. didn't know if you wanted to have a look at that?

[lilac edge]

i found a stack overflow answer that i wanted to experiment with but i can't find it now

[vocal halo]

Yeah I am talking about that one. I can read git commits. It was a response to them.

[neon epoch]

Yeah, I made sure it generated colour combinations that were different on light and dark theme and clamped so that they would be somewhat readable, if a user cant read it then they may refresh the page to get a new combination or just disable it using the button.

[lilac edge]

found it https://stackoverflow.com/a/71041703 i can mess with it in a bit

[trail minnow]

how can i set the HANGAR_API_TOKEN ? apiKey.set(System.getenv("HANGAR_API_TOKEN"))

[still apex]

by setting an environmental variable named HANGER_API_TOKEN with your api token

[trail minnow]

set HANGAR_API_TOKEN=token in a cmd?

[still apex]

gradle.properties or somewhere

[trail minnow]

HANGAR_API_TOKEN=token inside gradle.properties?

[still apex]

probably

[trail minnow]

probably not, it doesn't work

[still apex]

try some like providers.gradleProperty or whatever it was called

also wrong channel

[neon epoch]

Who knows anymore

[trail minnow]

what?

i don't know where to put the token

i was able to do it

now i have this error `Execution failed for task ':publishPluginPublicationToHangar'.

class com.google.gson.JsonNull cannot be cast to class com.google.gson.JsonPrimitive (com.google.gson.JsonNull and com.google.gson.JsonPrimitive are in unnamed module of loader org.gradle.internal.classloader.VisitableURLClassLoader @688fdb67)`

[still apex]

send your build script in #build-tooling-help

[trail minnow]

it's too large to be sended

or just hangarPublish?

[lilac edge]

should be better now

[supple comet]

heya
does anyone know a plugin
that allows people to claim land but it only shows up on dynmap
and lets non members of the claimed land still break blocks?

[distant swan]

whats the point of claiming that land then?

[supple comet]

well you can see it on a map

[distant swan]

okay... but why

what relevance does it have

[supple comet]

i have ways to revert griefing but the no more block breaking approatch isnt that good since imagine your in a mine you find diamonds and then you cant pick them up

[supple comet]

for some reason everyone on my server loves the map a lot and ive been filling it with the area commands but that gets a bit annoying at some point

so i hoped there was some kind of plugin for that

[ocean void]

You should keep this to #general

Please don’t ask the same question in multiple channels.

[supple comet]

i got a bit confused with the new channel names

[fierce adder]

The descriptions give it away 😥

[hot glen]

@fierce adder

[neon epoch]

Plesse stop randomly pinging people

[neon epoch]

if anyone wants a free PR you can use https://docs.papermc.io/paper/dev/internals#getting-the-current-minecraft-version for auto-versioning, otherwise i may do it at some point

[mental flame]

Guys you think AMD Ryzen 9 5900x or Intel ® i9-10850k is better for paper server

[neon epoch]

Could you please make your way over to #paper-help !

[still apex]

no

[drowsy zinc]

[neon epoch]

I’m gonna pray you tested it

:P

[drowsy zinc]

yea I did test it

[fierce adder]

we all need to pray!!

[neon epoch]

PR material for anyone: #paper-help message

[spice temple]

Should open an issue

So it's not lost

[vocal halo]

Done

I should get back on the vanilla differences one day as well

[fierce adder]

@neon epoch, what did you do?

note: all other notes and warnings, ect, work.

[fierce adder]

to clarify, this is the permission section https://docs.papermc.io/paper/dev/how-do-plugins-work#permissions

[still apex]

a space that shouldn’t be there

[eager plover]

yea, the note tag was messed up

would be nice if markdown had some of this stuff as a standard feature, rather than basically everybody hacking their own features into it, maybe then we could have useful markdown tooling

[neon epoch]

May be that the docusaurus update was more strict with this, not sure how long it’s been there. Thanks cat

[fierce adder]

yeah, I don't have time to make a PR since I'm in school so I just decided to highlight it, maybe I should have made a github issue but whatever

[eager plover]

I already nailed it

it was a commit from a few days ago, so, eeerrrr

sure, ollie, sure

||<3||

[fierce adder]

nice

[neon epoch]

womp womp

[chrome aspen]

hey there i was thinking i could implement one of the the page requests which is addressed here: https://github.com/PaperMC/docs/issues/261
are there any general tips aside from reading the contributing guidelines which you mock a lot of people for?

[echo canyon]

I think the velocity page linked in that PR looks like a good model

[chrome aspen]

right

[neon epoch]

Following the velocity page sounds like a good start! Thanks for showing interest in contributing

[young matrix]

also if you have any questions or get stuck do not hesitate to ask, we can help you

[chrome aspen]

thanks!

is there any standardized format for commit messages? looking at history it doesnt seem so, should i just stick to format that i find readable & usable then?

[eager plover]

no, yes

[neon epoch]

I’ve been trying to stick to a fix/feat/style etc recently but name it whatever and it’ll be squashed anyways 😄

[cursive portal]

@chrome aspen I am making the page already.

I have a little work to do and it's done

[chrome aspen]

Ah i see

Havent done much yet so its not a problem

Maybe next time it would be worth making atleast draft pr? (If it exists mb, i didnt see it lol)

[cursive portal]

I forgot to make it.

Sorry

[chrome aspen]

No problem, atleast you told me now 👍

[cursive portal]

I'll make a draft PR tomorrow cuz i haven't committed anything. It's saved on my pc.