#politics

1 messages · Page 77 of 1

foggy fern
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FDP Minister of Finance?

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Yeah

near glen
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I mean, maybe that's the nessasary evil to get a green traffic and environment minister

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And agriculture

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Urg, so many important things, lol

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SPD can get the work ministry and foreign ministry, they did fine work there

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It will take months to get everything sorted, lmao

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But as long as the CDU is opposition it's a win I guess

foggy fern
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They all say they want it done before the end of the year

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It's still possible CDU is in charge though, right?

near glen
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,es

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Yes*

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Sadly

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Both Jamaica and traffic light is equally possible I guess

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Greens prefer SPD, FDP prefers CDU

brisk cradle
foggy fern
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The power shortages are a mixture of environment restrictions, a natural gas shortage apparently everywhere in the world except the US, and them not having enough of the kind of coal they can use to cover the difference

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Getting rid of that first one or taking in coal from Australia would certainly help but it's the natural gas shortage messing things up the most

brisk cradle
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yeah, and now that I think about it, it does sound like a pro-coal lobby kinda thing

foggy fern
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They have coal (although apparently they're having their own internal shortages too) just not the kind they're allowed to use for some of this stuff

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US is producing more than enough natural gas but with the rest of the world wanting it we're exporting more so prices are rising here too

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Wells aren't upping production because they make more money doing nothing right now and are worried they'll either kill the market or invest a bunch to do so and then have the market stabilize and have their next quarter look bad

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Or potentially put them out of business if they invest too heavily

tough cedar
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O boy

foggy fern
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Oh yeah we're fucked

foggy fern
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This country deserves judgement for the way it voted in 2020. The impending shutdown is a righteous act.

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That's enough /r/conservative for today

foggy fern
deep ravine
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I wish the democrats had nominated a younger person. I get the destinct feeling that Biden can not handle high stress tasks at his age.

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Like, I feel like people voted Biden only to spite Trump.

foggy fern
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Trump is 75

faint radish
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I think Biden is less there than trump. Stuff like this doesn’t happen at the same age for everyone. Could have an 85 year old more “there” than a 75 year old

foggy fern
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Have you ever watched one of Trump's rallies all the way through?

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Trump is more energetic but they both have some problems there

deep ravine
# foggy fern Trump is 75

Yes, Trump was going to be nominated off the bat for the republicans. I just mean that Biden seems consistantly unfit to be in the position he is in. If a younger democrat had been put in, it wouldn't be an issue.

deep ravine
faint radish
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oh yeah, you're getting no argument from me that Trump is also too old, but part of Trumps speaking style is, well, how he talks, and riffs about things. Biden has been gaff-prone in the past, but its def gotten more significant in recent years/months.

deep ravine
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I hope neither of them run in 2024

faint radish
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well politicians in general, isnt the average age in the senate like high 60s?

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then you've got diane feinstein whos gonna run again

dark crystal
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the requirement for president to be at least 35 years old should be lowered to 18 (basically coincide with age of majority)

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i mean, as long as you're an adult... why can't you run for presidency?

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it could perhaps lead to younger people trying to run instead of always having to choose between boomers

faint radish
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if it shouldn't exist anymore, why should it have existed in the first place?

dark crystal
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I personally ask the same thing

faint radish
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if anything, to keep up with longer average lifespans it should be later

dark crystal
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perhaps it's just my general distaste in having too old people holding political positions then

tough cedar
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i don't personally mind if our politicians are older or not

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i mean as a young person i guess it'd be more relatable if they're younger but it's not make or break

dark crystal
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not sure about the US but what I've learned in europe's case is that if you survived your early infancy then you could basically leave up to 70s

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but still

foggy fern
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Yeah people weren't dying at 30 or 40 all that often

tough cedar
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yea i think that was the case for the U.S too...

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so so so many infant/child deaths

foggy fern
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If you made it to adulthood you could make it to 70 even in like 1200 AD

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Before that we don't have good records

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Presumably if you could in 1200 AD though you could back to like 0 AD too

tough cedar
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I mean yea i can see the argument against it, i totally get it

foggy fern
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Of course those records are only for nobles (bloodlines and all that) so maybe peasants were dropping dead at 40

tough cedar
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it's just not something that's a huge deal for me :p

dark crystal
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you don't necessarily need a 20 year old president to change the world though lmao when i mentioned the age requirement it was just because I had remembered of it and i find it pretty arbitrary

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but

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younger people in politics helps imo

dark crystal
brisk cradle
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"anti-vaxxer clown" is just a strange combination but endlessly hilarious https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/post/denise-truffles-lyonnais-68-the-villiages-fl-anti-vaxxer-clown-dies-from-covid

sorryantivaxxer.com
Denise "Truffles" Lyonnais, 68, The Villages, FL, Anti-vaxxer Clown...

Well, we just lost Truffles aka Denise Lyonnais to COVID according to this post. She lived in the Florida retirement community "The Villages" and entertained gatherings and parties as the Clown "Truffles." However, she was an anti-vaxxer and none of her posts on Facebook were funny... until now. Let's see Truffles comments It's really not that f...

foggy fern
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Oh look the graph is even in the pullout

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Feasible and economical with current technology and political acceptance their projection is nuclear would be able to provide 100% of our energy needs (not just electricity, heating and transportation and etc too) for about 5.7 years

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Saltwater uranium extraction would get a lot more time but isn't economical with normal reactors (and still might not be with breeder reactors yet)

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Breeder reactors would also get us a lot more time but aren't politically acceptable (they create bomb material)

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We could dump a bunch of subsidies into nuclear to get our CO2 emissions down as a stopgap but since they take so long to build I'm not sure if there would be a point

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And those subsidies would probably be better spent upgrading the electrical grid or installing heat pumps in every home or something

near glen
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Nuclear is cool and all, but we have this problem: what do you do with the waste?

mystic ermine
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you burn it up

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what you can't use, you seal up and store

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nuclear would do a good job of getting base loads off of the network, those are primarily the big natural gas generators and the coal plants which still exist here and there

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little fun fact, did you know that if a nuclear plant was to emit as much radiation as a coal plant does, it would be shut down?

near glen
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We don't know how to do that

mystic ermine
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There are many plans which people are looking into

near glen
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At least not in a way where you can be certain a future government can't go like, science isn't real, I'll stop paying for storage

mystic ermine
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There are even potential solutions to basically destroy most of the long life stuff too

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which is why projects which bury it are an especially interesting solution if done properly

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I mean, we're already burying what would be considered nuclear waste indiscriminatly into coal mines and such

near glen
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We tried burying it in a salt mine but then water entered 🤡

mystic ermine
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I mean, the alternatives I've seen are generally 'use heavily polluting machinery to mine all of the rare metals we need for batteries", if which grid capacity is a fair ways away

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There are defo still questions about nuclear, don't get me wrong, but, what's the alternative?

near glen
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For storage much better things exist

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E.g, Germany sends their excess to Norway and they pump water round

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And you can do the hydrogen thing

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Which, yes, is wasteful, but ok to do with excess

mystic ermine
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efficiency is a critical factor when it comes to storage

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and last I knew they weren't exactly at capacity with that yet

near glen
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Not when energy is free

mystic ermine
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We've also got this fun thing where we're gonna need a whole lot more hydrogen in the future for stuff like aviation

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it's not free

near glen
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If you got excess because both sun is shining and wind is blowing, you don't care about how efficient hydrogen production is, you just wanna use up that energy

mystic ermine
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I mean, yea, better to store it than to waste it on grid balancing, but, if we're gonna get to having days of storage capacity, efficiency is gonna be critical

near glen
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We also need more global energy networks

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So you can more easily balance weather effects

mystic ermine
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which is also only gonna take years, upon years, upon years to develop and get into place

near glen
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Well yes, there is no instant solution

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And we started way too late

mystic ermine
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The waste problem for nuclear is, imho, not as big of an issue as if we don't start actually moving, many countries have been letting their reactors dwindle

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UK literally had/has a coal plant running

near glen
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Well, the problem isn't going away magically if we ignore it

deep ravine
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Couldn’t we also power the entire world with a good number of solar panels in the Sahara (assuming everybody gets along)? I remember watching a video on that year ago.

near glen
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That's what I was hinting at with more global power grids

shy gulch
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It’s nearly 8billipn solar panels just to power America alone

foggy fern
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Nuclear waste is only a minor issue if we're using breeder reactors, they turn up most of the fuel and their waste products aren't as long term dangerous

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Problem is they also make plutonium-239 afaik

torn wadi
foggy fern
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I mean, it's still an issue we have to think about but only for like a hundred years instead of 10,000

torn wadi
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Thorium never took off, because it couldn't be used for weapons at the time.

foggy fern
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Thorium is also a damn hard engineering problem

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Especially the molten salt version everyone is always jerking off over

torn wadi
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True that.

faint radish
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Just do fusion. Probably only 50 years away.

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🙂

hoary tartan
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I can't be the only one who got like 15 recommendations on my google news panel about the experiments at the NIF in LIvermore right?

torn wadi
deep ravine
mystic ermine
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Issue with the Sahara is that we don't know what the side effects will be

deep ravine
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side effects meaning environmental effects, or shifts in political power?

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Because if we are talking about the real world, there will not be a universal grid (especially with the Sahara at the center) because it forces other countries to give up power

shut vine
mystic ermine
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environmental effects, who knows how taking over huge swathes of land of the sahara is

shut vine
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ITER is another interesting one, there are like 23 countries involved in experiments in the ITER project.

mystic ermine
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Then theres also actually the infra needed behind it, e.g. getting resources like water there so that you can keep the panels clean (as otherwise they're useless)

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Then theres the technological aspects of it, the grid was never designed to have a major source of power generation come from one place

shut vine
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They also have to mine the materials for it, build the panels, mine more materials for replacement panels, etc. Most of the worlds power usage is commercial anyway.

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Commercial/industrial.

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Solar if it were able to have 100% uptime would only be a stopgap solution.

mystic ermine
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for power gen in the sahara solar panels directly probs would even make sense, tbqh

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wouldn't*

shut vine
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In what way?

mystic ermine
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typical challenge of solar, peak usage goes up as the sun starts going down, especially in winter

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(and with the plans to get rid of natural gas usage, that's only gonna get worse)

foggy fern
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The molten salt mirror setup would probably be better

foggy fern
near glen
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I decided to follow my city on Twitter for election news, and now I see them posting almost weekly about building new bike lanes, lol

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Today it was 6 to 4 car lanes on a street that goes thru the northern half of the city

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I knew my city was big on that, but the pace is really cool to witness

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And like, this only costs 300k

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Plus another 200k for rebuilding a few traffic lights, who were old anyways and get the LED treatment now, together with the needed changes for the bike lanes

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So there is really no excuse to not make your city more bike friendly

broken raven
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you mean your taxes actually get used to build things?

near glen
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Yeah, funny what electing a green progressive city government does to your city

dusky raft
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@near glen I support more bike friendly roads, hell, anywhere really

daring locust
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NL is years ahead of you B)

near glen
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Sadly, ye

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The difference is unreal

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But people here always say it always has been that way in the NL and there's more demand there and stuff

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When that's bullshit, as shown by Paris for example, which is getting transformed big time right now

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Get rid of cars and suddenly you got cyclers and pedestrians everywhere

dark crystal
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so, CDU is a conservative party in germany?

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that's funny to me because here in portugal the CDU is a coalition between two left parties

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the Portuguese Communist Party and "The Greens" Ecologist Party

loud flax
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got my first COVID-19 shot yesterday, so now i'm in the majority group of americans, yay

broken raven
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funny how that works

brisk cradle
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you ask me why they have two names

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idk

brisk cradle
# foggy fern https://www.cbsnews.com/news/debt-ceiling-mcconnell-stops-schumers-latest-attemp...

Only three ways this goes:

  1. Republicans will keep this charade until October 18th, and then blink. The good outcome.
  2. Republicans and Democrats reach an agreement that involves torching the Biden agenda. Unlikely, but Manchin and Sinema might just jump on board this crazy train.
  3. Republicans allow the default to happen and blame it on Democrats, even though Democrats were more than happy to vote by themselves to raise the debt ceiling. Eventually the impasse is resolved but Republicans will suffer no consequences while Democrats will suffer all the consequences. I see this, unfortunately, as a fairly likely outcome.
  4. Democrats get fed up and on October 18, manage to convince Sinema and Manchin to blow up the filibuster for debt limit increases and voting rights. Unlikely, but would resolve the impasse. The best outcome.
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The most unlikely outcome is 5. Abolish the debt limit since it's been nothing more than a political football to throw around, and hasn't been a meaningful limit on the country's public debt in the longest time.

foggy fern
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If we go even close to October 18 without resolving this shit is going to be bad

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Pelosi already said they're going to vote on the smaller infrastructure bill today, iirc

brisk cradle
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But remember, the last time this happened, the U.S.'s credit rating got downgraded and Republicans extracted painful austerity measures from the Democrats. That could happen again, which is why I think (2) is likely.

foggy fern
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But the bigger bill was also the budget bill so... still getting a normal kind of shutdown from that dying

faint radish
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nah, shutdown prob wont happen senate just today passed the CR till early december

brisk cradle
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We won't get a shutdown, Democrats and Republicans agreed to pass a clean continuing resolution with funds for hurricane relief and Afghanistan refugees.

faint radish
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ya, thats what I saw

foggy fern
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Did it include anything for the debt ceiling or just a budget?

brisk cradle
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Nothing for debt ceiling.

faint radish
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no not a budget

foggy fern
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It's kind of a budget

faint radish
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its a CR which means its like an agreement to not do anything for a little while longer

brisk cradle
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Continuing resolution means there is no budget, it's just continuing the last budget's spending.

faint radish
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yeah

foggy fern
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Anyway, without a debt ceiling increase or suspension it doesn't really matter since on the 18th there won't be enough money to fund it

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It'll keep things mostly moving until the 18th though

dusky raft
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We should be reducing spending really, Id love to see us start pulling payments out of places that take millions, along with removing pet projects from the budget

brisk cradle
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In order of likeliness, I say (1), then (2), then (4) or (3)

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(5) is never going to happen

foggy fern
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I think if we don't get something done with the debt ceiling this week we're getting a rating downgrade anyway

tough cedar
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poggers lets ruin the global economy poggers

brisk cradle
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Democrats will have one hell of a messaging operation to run if Republicans decide to not raise the debt ceiling.

foggy fern
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Now the moderates are talking about going back through all the stuff in the big bill and modifying it to be means tested

brisk cradle
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pain

faint radish
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I think manchin just said again today that 1.5 is the highest he'll go

foggy fern
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Which is another way of saying "we want bigger government to help less people"

brisk cradle
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In that sense they are both extremists.

foggy fern
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Manchin is trying to pretend there was never a deal for him to support the bigger bill in exchange for the progressives supporting the smaller one he wanted to show you could still work with Republicans

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So I don't know if I'd trust him saying now that he gave them details on what he would support months ago

brisk cradle
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Also, it's not really $3.5 trillion in one go. It's more like $350 billion over 10 years.

foggy fern
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He has been spending the last couple days trying to pretend none of the plans that have been going on this summer were a thing

brisk cradle
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I'm not sure what happens from here, Manchin and Sinema have to blink at some point unless they don't want their jobs. And judging from Sinema's approval ratings, she's now more popular amongst Republicans than with Democrats.

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Does Sinema want to get primaried?

foggy fern
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He is trying to say his understanding is that they'd pass the smaller bill and then start talking about if there should be a bigger bill and what should be in it

brisk cradle
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She's practically asking to get primaried.

foggy fern
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I wonder if the progressives in the house are going to give in on the smaller bill or not

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They've said they aren't going to vote for it unless the other one passes first and without them the bill wouldn't pass

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Unless a lot of Republicans voted for it too

brisk cradle
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For all intents and purposes, the Senate is effectively controlled by Republicans. It's a surreal situation given that I lived in a state that not only gave Biden crucial electoral votes but also his theoretical Senate majority. At least the senators we elected are reasonable - Ossoff is more moderate, Warnock has chosen to be quite progressive.

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It was a helluva lot better than the sixth cousin of the Perdue family and Kelly Loeffler, who used her inside information to sell stocks just as COVID was ramping up and Trump was denying that anything was wrong, and wanted to tie herself to Trump in every possible way.

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She even lost her WNBA team.

foggy fern
brisk cradle
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Anyway! Rumor has it that I have work to do today

near glen
foggy fern
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Rep Cuellar (D - Texas) is on MSNBC and a few minutes ago said he didn't know of any deal to pass both bills together but then just now explained the deal

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But he is saying the agreement was just that the progressives would vote for the smaller bill, no tie between the two or order they have to pass

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So he is telling progressives "you agreed to pass this on the 27th, we're a few days late but you need to vote yes on this today like you agreed"

restive seal
foggy fern
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If they had started a month ago (or a week or two maybe if they really rushed things) they could have done it as a part of the budget

near glen
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Lmao, the greens already break away from their promises

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They no longer want a 130kmh speed limit

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Only took, checks watch, 5 days, to throw away their principles

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Next you know they start to believe in the market too

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(context, German election, greens and neo liberals are discussion their common ground right now before they wanna see whom they form a coalition with)

torn wadi
opal moat
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to be fair, there are more important topics than that and I'd rather have them focus on those instead of the speed limit, which is mostly PR if I'm being honest

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It's one of the things I expected and hoped they would drop, so that other points can stay

near glen
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Fair enough

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Still would have a direct (good) impact on my daily life

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Cause idiots going at 200+ kmh is the most annoying thing on the Autobahn, together with trucks on the middle lane and idiots driving on the middle lane when right lane is empty

mystic ermine
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are there more important things? sure
is it worrying that parties are willing to throw away their principles to cozy up for power rather than actually fighting for their convictions? You can be the judge of that

shut vine
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I generally think it depends on the reason they're giving up on it. If it's because they can't get all of what they want through due to numbers, then maybe. Ideally it would warrant an apology accompanying an explanation on how they screwed up, as well as their new plan which would leave them in my eyes liars or ineffective if they couldn't accomplish the new plan - which is just about every politician ever at some stage in their careers. Though people only ever want to hold them accountable when they disagree with their projected position, probably part of the problem.

near glen
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Lol

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"I’m sure pay and conditions for HGV drivers have improved, but ultimately I have decided to carry on in my role at an investment bank. My wife has never driven anything larger than a Volvo, so she is also intending to decline the exciting opportunity.
It is nice to know there are specialist jobs available here for us though after Brexit. We would never have been headhunted to drive a lorry if we’d gone back to Germany"

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Has satire gone too far?

mystic ermine
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I was hearing that we don't even have a "real" shortage bar one which was created

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apparently we'd only need like 10% of those who've had their tests cancelled through all the covid BS to like, not be so short of drivers

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But, quess which department was/is gonna be the last to open (not sure if they're open yet)

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there has never been a better time

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Other than like, several decades ago when drivers where actually respected by the companies they work for and those who run the industry?

brisk cradle
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This pill is a game-changer - but unfortunate since it means less Herman Cain Awards will be given out.

reef vapor
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This is good

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But

foggy fern
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People seem to think it's just ivermectin but more expensive since they make that too

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Even though the chemical formula and method of action aren't even close to the same...

reef vapor
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I people take it hap hazardly we could create our own worst nightmare, stronger Covid. Essentially it’s the same thing that happens when antibacterial is used and people don’t take as many doses as they should. Some excapes which is slightly resistant and it builds up over time

urban vector
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is this true?

foggy fern
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This is the same thing people say about the vaccines, since they aren't sterilizing against delta people either blame the vaccines for delta existing or say that with delta vaccinated people are just helping incubate stronger versions

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I suppose I could see the logic of that second one, if standard covid can't survive in a vaccinated population but something that spreads faster and is deadlier spreads through a vaccinated population like a flu then when it hits an unvaccinated person they don't stand a chance

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Of course the solution is for everyone to get vaccinated but that wouldn't let them be the victim

loud flax
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wouldn't it be nice if there was a vaccine for misinformation

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lol

mystic ermine
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it's not even misinformation at this point

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people are just hesitent and the fuss made over people not getting it and painting them as the dev just made shit worse

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I was hesitent too months ago, said I wasn't gonna get it but ended up changing my mind other month

restive seal
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A lot of hesitation came from misinformation though. At this point it's pride in their viewpoint and belief that it's possible to manifest truth via your beliefs which are based on a facebook meme.

mystic ermine
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I mean, at least from what I saw over in my side of politics, most of the initial suspicions on the vaccine came from top ranking members of parties saying that they wouldn't take the vaccine

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then said members get into power and all of a sudden it's like, YOU MUST TAKE IT!

foggy fern
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I was worried about it the first few months, luckily I wasn't even eligible for it then so didn't have to make a decision either way

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After a couple months of millions getting it if there was going to be something that was likely to happen to me we would know about it already

mystic ermine
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Yea, with my health I kinda wanted to hold out for a while, I was reading up on a condition that my doctor was like, concerned I might have, and apparently for some people the vaccine has made their condition much worse

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But, I was kinda somewhat leading into an episode already so I kinda just figured fuck it

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I'm due my 2nd dose now, and I'll probs get it like thursday or something and getting it's been a PITA as I don't live in the city centre and cos of my health it's a pita to move around too much

shut vine
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I think in general people should stop blaming each other, vaccines are out, people can get vaccinated to help combat the chance of infection/complications if they so choose. If everyone in your locality has had the chance to get vaccinated then realistically government involvement in the daily comings and goings in that locality can greatly decrease.

Then everyone can decide for themselves, as is their right and obligation, as to what additional risks they are willing to accept.

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The politicization of it by either side pro/against and trying to coerce or shame people into getting/not getting it doesn't help anyone, and just makes people pick a side which is just childish.

daring locust
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what did i just read on the news lmao
"whistleblower claims facebook contributed to Capitol storming"

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according to an ex employee, they turned off anti-misinformation settings too early

daring locust
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im just confused as to why she's only saying this now

foggy fern
near glen
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Sadly those idiots long moved to telegram

brisk cradle
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If the GOP continues to sit on its butt, then I'm pretty sure Manchin and Sinema are not willing to blow up the economy for the sake of the filibuster.

foggy fern
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Should do the carve out then vote to get rid of the ceiling entirely

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It's a dumb rule meant to appease the isolationists during WW1

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Until 2011 it was mostly a thing Congress just raised on reflex without any drama

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Fucking Tea Party ruined that though. Fucking Koch brothers.

hoary tartan
urban vector
near glen
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Wait

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NFTs are a scam?!??

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Next you telling me water is wet

urban vector
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they're all so ugly as well

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like, obviously it's bad regardless of the art, but it could at least be pretty??

daring locust
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the fact that the guy got 2.7 million as well

minor hemlock
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I congratulate everyone on the holiday!!!!

hot haven
woven reef
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HA

eager hawk
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oml i haven't checked this channel in so long

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hope everyone's been doing well o/

foggy fern
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So apparently the goal of Senate Republicans is to get the Democrats to use the reconciliation process for the debt ceiling, this would not only block them from also using it for their budget bill but due to the rules for that they would have to actually raise the debt ceiling instead of suspending it

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That would mean they have an actual number they can use in campaigning next year to accuse the Democrats of spending too much money

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Seems like the Republicans blinked first though, got us a few more months at least

shy gulch
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its a band aid that will quickly fall off but good to see some resistance

mystic ermine
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There was some fears that they where aiming to use sb8 to work it up the ladder to attack roe, which, I mean, wouldn't entirely surprise me if that's the long game they're playing here

shy gulch
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honestly pretty sure thats what theyre going for but my bets are they dont make it that far

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supreme court would rule to repeal roe v wade since it's a republican majority but this is so blatantly unconstitutional I cant see it getting to that point

dusky raft
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roe v. wade also isnt law, you can say the same thing with the 2nd amendment and gun control

shy gulch
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it isn't law, but a ruling on the coverage of several constitutional amendments on womens' right to privacy

dusky raft
#

interpretations of the constitution will change with the supreme court.

shy gulch
#

it established a precedent which has done an outstanding amount of good for women in america

#

and furthered civil liberties and privacy beyond womens' rights

dusky raft
#

and rulings are like a gravel road, not concrete, it wasnt meant to be permanent. and on the side of civil liberties, eh, there are other more impactful movements that caused big changes.

shy gulch
#

the question this all begs is why are we still in a debate over the rights of women

#

why havent we made roe v wade into official legislation?

mystic ermine
#

Because it's never been a "solid" ruling

dusky raft
#

welcome to the slugfest that is american politics

shy gulch
#

lol

mystic ermine
#

it's not like "murder is wrong" where 90%+ of the population agrees that murder is in fact wrong

#

Theres always been calls to overturn roe v wade

#

And, it's not exactly "the rights of a woman"

#

I mean, you have the bible bashers who'll just "it's a sin"

shy gulch
#

yep, because people continue to try and control things that dont affect them over their own beliefs and prejudices

dusky raft
#

and what republicans have stated is what rights does a fetus have? or does it have 0 rights to life?

mystic ermine
#

I mean, when does the unborn child become an entity with its own rights to live?

#

yea

#

I mean, I think that it's a complete farce, I don't neccessarily agree with abortions and theres many stories out there of it basically destroying women, but, I mean, who am I to say that people shouldn't be able to get an abortion?

shy gulch
#

I see it as if you don't agree with abortions, simply don't get one

shy gulch
#

If people need an abortion they should have safe access to it as a basic healthcare right, and anyone's opinion on the matter shouldnt weigh in on that

dusky raft
#

and I dont completely agree with abortions either, as it can done either way as a form of carefree sex.

shy gulch
#

I may disagree with that, but even assuming that's true what place does the government have to say what someone does with their body in private

#

their role should be to educate people as much as possible and allow them to make their own judgement calls

mystic ermine
#

Issue is actually educating people these days

dusky raft
#

I am not saying that the government should be stepping in, I dont think the government has any reason to tell you what you to do.

shy gulch
#

which the republicans are also trying to block

#

same group who supported jim crow and all that horrible stuff 70 years ago is now actively trying to prevent people from learning what they did

mystic ermine
#

You mean the CRT stuff?

dusky raft
#

not too sure what republican and supporting jim crow means, given that it was democrat run states after the civil war that enforced jim crow laws

mystic ermine
#

Which was actively promoting materials which historic scholars basically called complete hogwash

dusky raft
#

hell, I think the first black politician was a republican

shy gulch
#

a worthwhile read

#

the party we know as republicans to this day is historically responsible for a vast majority of this

#

I mean many people on both sides supported this awful stuff but still

dusky raft
#

and how is it republicans that enforced this in the south when they werent in the majority in their state governments?

mystic ermine
#

one of the right wing political commentators basically said, why is that as the south has gotten more republican leaning, that incidents of racism have fallen?

shy gulch
#

democrats and republicans switched platforms

dusky raft
#

also bullshit,

#

republicans havent switched platforms, its the democrats that have

mystic ermine
#

I mean, that story is complex, and last I recall, basically 1 person who was a democrat who was heavily implicated in this "defected" to the repubs and the majority stayed

shy gulch
dusky raft
#

also a common popular myth that never happened

shy gulch
#

think about it, members of what party do you still see flying the "democrat"s confederate flag?

mystic ermine
#

I mean, that story is spun around on both sides

shy gulch
#

where are your sources lol

dusky raft
#

I mean, have you looked at when this "flip" happened and if party members on mass switched?

#

very little in fact

shy gulch
#

the parties changed course after the civil war

#

this is from the official US Embassy website

#

seems kinda silly to argue with historical fact and call it a "myth" lol

#

This meant that a large number of Southern Democrats whose political views were more traditional and conservative, didn’t support Roosevelt’s liberal initiatives and joined the Republican Party instead. Roosevelt’s progressive, liberal policies play an important role in shifting the party’s political agenda to look like the modern Democratic Party as we know it today.
quote from article

dusky raft
#

this still hasnt changed my views on republicans, just that democrats have a faction of more left leaning politicians. Even as the fact states that republicans in the early 20th century are driven by economics and industry.

#

that hasnt changed really, hell, look at trump's platform on that.

#

you literally just told me what I said earlier

shy gulch
#

yep, historically they were driven by economics and industry to the point of fighting for slavery because it meant making a buck

mystic ermine
#

I mean, I'm mentally dead but that article misses out a lot of timeline of stuff and such

shy gulch
#

was trying to clear that up

dusky raft
#

im saying is that the republican party hasnt moved much from its positions...

shy gulch
#

which is true

dusky raft
#

if your talking about the democrats taking a nose dive into the left wing spectrum, then that is correct. Generally ive debated people who literally think republicans became democrats and democrats became republicans.

#

its just the republicans dont budge much in policy.

foggy fern
#

So your argument is that Republicans were always against freeing the slaves and the Civil Rights Act and were for Jim Crow laws and only Democrats changed position on those?

#

And Republicans were for the Confederacy? 😛

dusky raft
#

and so being right wing means I support slaves?

#

I consider myself right and I dont think slavery is justified

foggy fern
#

No but waving that flag around kind of does

dusky raft
#

how do you know those people are republicans?

foggy fern
#

I feel like I'm being trolled

dusky raft
#

I mean, unless its actually displayed at a state house...

#

no really, how can you tell a bunch of rednecks riding a beat up pickup truck displaying the confederate flag (which wasnt the official flag of the confederacy by the way, they used another flag) are republicans?

foggy fern
#

Before 2016 I would say it's hard to know for sure, they probably don't pay enough attention to politics anyway, but then Trump happened and pretty solidly linked the two

dusky raft
#

hell, the "leader" of the alt right, Richard Spencer, stated they didnt vote for trump in 2020.

foggy fern
#
  1. I don't know if I'd believe him
  2. I got the impression he was trying to troll the left by saying he was voting for Biden so that others could then say since Spencer voted for Biden that must mean Biden is a white supremacist
dusky raft
#

I'm not too sure he was trolling, I dont take him for his word either, however, this is sort of the same thing in regards to republicans. I'm not saying that they dont have racist people on board, hell, wouldnt be shocked if both parties had them. However I dont think what the republicans are enforcing is racist.

foggy fern
#

I'm not saying all racists are Republican, I'm just saying they're more likely to be

#

Culture war stuff is how the Republican party ties together rich elites and the working poor so they have to jump through hoops to support that stuff while not really supporting it

#

To some extent the Democrats have come to rely on culture war issues as well as the party has moved away from neoliberalism while still having to maintain a moderate base

shy gulch
#

"However I dont think what the republicans are enforcing is racist" theyre literally blocking CRT

#

from being taught

#

how is refusing race relations education not racist

dusky raft
#

I think any ideology based on enforcing race relations is bullshit

foggy fern
#

No one is actually teaching CRT to children anyway, that's a conlaw specialization that's only taught to grad students

dusky raft
#

CRT is no better than being racist

shy gulch
shy gulch
foggy fern
#

What they're trying to do is take what those people have figured out and use it to reframe history for children to highlight certain parts more

shy gulch
#

to help mend the massive problems with racism in modern society

dusky raft
#

I dont think we should be giving a damn about skin color.

mystic ermine
#

with information which history scolars have disputed?

shy gulch
mystic ermine
#

Pretty sure that even the author of one of the many well pushed materials even said her book was basically farce

shy gulch
#

I think its important to account for historic ethnic/racial discrimination because it affects minorities daily

#

instead of pretending everything is ok

#

because people who are actually subject to discrimination have to think about it

dusky raft
#

well, wouldnt democrat run cities technically be better off than republican rural towns?

foggy fern
#

The first time a lot of people heard of the Tulsa race massacre was when they saw it in The Watchmen TV show and a lot of people outside of the south didn't know what Juneteenth was until Trump decided to hold a rally in Tulsa on that day

shy gulch
foggy fern
#

So we're not doing a good job of teaching kids about the conflicts in our past

shy gulch
#

and those suppression efforts continue to this day in the form of blocking CRT

foggy fern
#

You're not controlling for your variables

dusky raft
#

I dont know about caring about skin color and discrimination is? if people want to be treated equal, I will do so.

#

I have no issues based on skin color, Ive worked with plenty of successful minorities.

foggy fern
#

The problem with the colorblindness model that was pushed heavily in the 80s and 90s (that's how I was taught too) is that it makes you blind to systemic issues too

shy gulch
#

exactly

#

instead of addressing the root cause (like race education does)

mystic ermine
dusky raft
#

I dont agree our system is perfect, hell, too many standard history classes tell us that is the case. What I dont agree with is the complete and utter damnation of said system and making a generation utterly hate the country they live in

#

thats why CRT is being pushed so hard against

mystic ermine
#

Don't get me wrong, teaching the past is something we should do, but, exaggerating aspects of the past in an attempt to aid your framing doesn't really help

shy gulch
foggy fern
#

Thinking it's meant to make a generate hate the US as a concept is some right wing talk radio shit

mystic ermine
#

Also, CRT isn't "CRT", it is more just this exaggerated race education in which white people are and always will be oppressors

shy gulch
foggy fern
#

Will teaching a generation with this model result in changes being made to the government and society? Hopefully, that is the point of it

shy gulch
foggy fern
#

That's only inherently a bad thing if you think things are perfect as they are

dusky raft
#

and this will get me kicked out of #politics, but eh, im kind of at that point with all politics channels. @shy gulch you are a glowing bastion of pureness and needs to shove their views down everyones throats. That is a dictatorship I want no part in

shy gulch
#

what

#

we are literally having a debate

#

and you go for a personal attack

dusky raft
#

and you called me ignorant

#

you cant complain

shy gulch
#

that's not breaking any rules lmao

tough cedar
#

knowing that america treated minorities poorly doesn't make me hate the country

shy gulch
#

america continues to treat minorities poorly and I don't hate the country either

mystic ermine
#

meanwhile in the UK we just have the labour party calling everybody Comrade

shy gulch
#

I hate the system of oppression it has created

#

not the country

dusky raft
#

what needs to be fixed? what part of the system?

#

education can only go so far

foggy fern
#

TIL the british offered slaves freedom if they joined them in putting down the rebellion

shy gulch
#

how about

unequal sentencing for minorities, police brutality, race education, de-facto segregation (eg redlining and food deserts), education/housing inequality, employment discrimination

#

just to name a few

foggy fern
#

Which dragged most of the south into fighting against the british, they didn't have a choice anymore

mystic ermine
#

a lot of it's a looooot of historical lack of investment, I wouldn't say it's a massive race issue these days as much of an historical class issue, just, race played a massive component in the original creation of that

foggy fern
#

Historical lack of investment and active destruction of any attempt to build themselves up

dusky raft
#

well unequal sentencing, we could start with legalizing cannabis use. that affected a lot of minorities and the policy put forth was racist.

foggy fern
#

It wasn't just that black businesses and communities were shunned, they were bombed, burnt, and knocked down to make highways and shopping malls

mystic ermine
#

sentencing is a weird one where you're probs more likely to be seen as a potential re-offender if you meet certain criteria in their heads which kinda line up with the horror of the conditions there...

#

I mean, the american prision system is complete farce anways

dusky raft
#

yeah, the prison system is a joke. It doesnt help anyone

foggy fern
#

But yeah, today the primary driver might be class but racist motivations ensure the class divide

#

Although traffic stops are still a much more worrying thing for anyone non-white

#

And sentencing is biased even when you control for class

mystic ermine
#

I mean, the education system is screwed too, which is why I'd be a massive proponent for things like school choice and private schools or whatever they're called in the US

dusky raft
#

yeah, I prefer the idea of school choice and private schools

foggy fern
#

Eh, the school choice stuff in the US is mostly used as a way to segregate schools

mystic ermine
#

I disagree, especially in the most stupidly hit areas

foggy fern
#

A better solution would be to make school funding a state level thing based on population instead of being a school district thing so the richer areas have more funding due to higher property values and thus higher taxes

mystic ermine
#

many people basically only have one choice of school and going elsewhere is generally a battle in its own right

#

I mean, part of the thing imho is getting rid of shit schools

dusky raft
#

they money should follow the child, which is what happened to me when I opted to change out of the local school system

foggy fern
#

I think the existing state and federal funding is based on attendance (and test scores...) but property taxes are a per-district thing

dusky raft
#

this caused the local school system to rapidly adopt new programs and update everything using limited funds

mystic ermine
#

I saw a story other month, and have commented on it in the past, where a student was basically forced to repeat a year after he basically didn't attend all year

foggy fern
#

So the school in the rich suburb can get new computers every year and and build a fancy football stadium while the one in poor side of town can't afford toilet paper

dusky raft
#

you arent helping by denying the freedom to go anywhere.

foggy fern
#

We also spend way too much money on administration which is a whole different thing and would help with these problems too

mystic ermine
#

His mother didn't know he wasn't attending school, which, defo offers some concerns there in regards to how didn't she know, was she not interested, did the school just not bother to try contacting her? (apparently attendence was a massive issue there in general)

foggy fern
#

Letting the people in the poor part of town who make a little extra money or have better work schedules (so they can provide transportation to a different school) flee to a different district might help them but it makes things worse for everyone else

#

The focus should be on fixing the broken schools so everyone can benefit

mystic ermine
#

the focus should be, yes

dusky raft
#

id rather have schools compete, coming out of a failing system into one that put me on the right path

mystic ermine
#

But I feel that the unions who are against even school choice are gonna be much of a battle there

foggy fern
#

Schools can't compete like that unless you have free bussing between districts

dusky raft
#

uh. yes, thats possible

foggy fern
#

You'd have to make it feasible for every student to flee the district otherwise you're stranding the rest into completely failure

dusky raft
#

the issue then would be capacity limits

#

@foggy fern funny enough, the high school I went to was actually a school setup in the 70s-80s for rejects and other children with problems.

#

its now considered a better school than the local towns

mystic ermine
#

I mean, capacity limits are a massive set of issues for people try get out of the failing school system

#

schools literally hold lotteries to decide who gets admitted to them.

dusky raft
#

this is why im pro voc-tech high school

#

teach a profession in high school

foggy fern
#

Right, and pretty much every school in the US is at or over capacity already anyway

mystic ermine
#

I don't massively think that expanding these schools is the true fix for the issue, but, I feel that it's something which is much more feasable and doable politically

foggy fern
#

Even my fancy suburb rich school had capacity problems

#

(had 1 Mac for every 2 students though, in 2001)

mystic ermine
#

I think it's fucking dumb that you'd have to consider basically allowing people to leave the current system for a shot in life, but, in many disadvantaged communties, these privately run schools seem to be highly vouched for, high in demand, and doing good stuff

dusky raft
#

funny enough, capacity wasnt an issue for my hometown after I graduated. a school meant to handle a class of 300 only had 40 graduate during a single year.

#

and this wasnt a rich town

mystic ermine
#

Theres a few stories out there of people who'd basically been written off by the state system and had a massive kick in the ass when they where pushed over to a privately run school

dusky raft
#

after that class of 40, they did some real time improvements over the summer and got their shit together

foggy fern
#

iirc when I was a freshman the entire high school was less than 200 people but when I would have been a senior (wasn't there) the freshman class alone was over 100 people

dusky raft
#

they average around 150 now?

mystic ermine
#

meanwhile the school I went to struggled to get 50 people in a year

woven reef
#

We have 2600 in mine

dusky raft
#

fucking hell, id hate to be in that graduation ceremony

woven reef
#

They have to do it on the field and last time they did it it started raining and the kept going until it started full on storming

foggy fern
#

I waited until my junior year to take some of the "fluff" classes like Spanish because I was cramming gen-eds (and took a couple before entering high school even) so I had to fight and argue to get in to some of my classes due to all the extra kids in the younger grades

dusky raft
#

@foggy fern meanwhile I was putting in hp gen8s in a server closet during my junior year.

foggy fern
#

Otherwise I would have had half a schedule my junior year but had to take 5 years of high school to get all the credits needed

mystic ermine
foggy fern
#

I still ended up with one bullshit class which was basically just me in the library making sure the computers worked but mostly just reading slashdot because they wouldn't let me have a partial day schedule

woven reef
#

It’s kinda insane here as the school has a huge drug issue and nobody does anything about it. The administration tells the school board everything here is great but it’s really bad. We’ve had 8 fights since Tuesday and multiple bomb and gun violence threats.

foggy fern
#

So yeah, even the rich folks had crowding issues, although they ended up building a new school like 2 years after that

#

Even though their high school was built in like 1992

mystic ermine
#

I mean, over here we just have the general issue where the government is slow to react to stuff

#

it took my school being placed into special measures before we started getting funding to be able to do stuff like replacing the IT suite with computers which weren't falling apart

foggy fern
#

The actual city school district had several school buildings over 100 years old before they finally got enough money to replace them

woven reef
#

I want to start recording my perspective and then go to the school board meeting with an hour of footage to show them it’s a big issue. You can’t walk into the restroom without being threatened or get made a target of criminal investigation.

#

And I’m only a freshman lol

foggy fern
#

100 year old house you can renovate and such to make it mostly work in a modern world but a 100 year old solid brick building meant they were putting in drop ceilings and subfloors and still couldn't get a forced air ventilation system set up so had no AC

#

We usually spent the first 2-3 weeks of school going home early due to heat

dusky raft
#

ye, ancient as fuck brick buildings

#

dont forget winter

#

sometimes it gets so cold that even the heaters werent enough

mystic ermine
#

what's AC?

#

I thought that the solution was to just melt?

foggy fern
#

Usually for those days we had late starts anyway due to it being too cold for kids to wait for the bus or stand outside the school after the bus dropped them off but before class started

mystic ermine
#

especially when they SCHEDULE ALL OF THE EXAMS DURING THE HOTTEST MONTH OF THE YEAR

foggy fern
#

Was it 38C in your building during those exams?

dusky raft
#

@mystic ermine this is why you have students install the hvac system.

foggy fern
#

Because it was in some of these schools at 3pm

mystic ermine
#

38c?

#

Jesus fuck

foggy fern
#

Wait, not 38, 43

mystic ermine
#

My nads aren't sweaty, they've fucking melted

dusky raft
#

not joking really, generally aside from a company coming in to assist, the high school I went too uses the student pool to help build and maintain the buildings at times

#

generally geared towards specific classes

foggy fern
#

Shit the average temps in the hottest month in London are 22 C

mystic ermine
#

I mean, it's fun though, because we don't have ACs, and it gets humid af

#

and our buildings are optimised to retain heat

dusky raft
#

its nice work really, though you end up with some jank in the construction, such as leaving a door in the ceiling alongside a network switch.

#

poor cisco c3560-X

#

surprised that thing chugged along as it did

foggy fern
#

I think the shop class in my high school did work on the football team's little golf cart like things

#

It's like a golf cart and a tractor had a baby

mystic ermine
dusky raft
#

@foggy fern try a whole building or two

#

or was it 3?

#

yeah, 3

foggy fern
#

Dude I fucking hated the humidity in Florida, I thought it was bad here but down there it's the worst days here but year round

#

Although it usually didn't get as hot there...

mystic ermine
#

Yea, id doesn't get as hot but cos it's so humid, your bodies like, sole means of cooling down hardly works

#

Like, I've always lived pretty close to a large body of water too, so it's always ultra fun

dusky raft
#

some humidity is nice, but lack thereof can also be bad

mystic ermine
#

some

#

some

#

Bro.

#

I went for a shower

#

hours later, my hair was still kinda damp

foggy fern
#

Yeah in Florida I was rinsing off in the shower a lot

dusky raft
#

@mystic ermine I lived near the ocean and on what would be considered a swamp for 21 years, I know humidity on an absolutely disgusting day.

mystic ermine
#

please don't ping

dusky raft
#

ah sorry

foggy fern
#

I wish I'd been closer to the ocean, at least then I'd have a breeze and something positive to offset the awful

mystic ermine
#

Yea, I mean, I aim to shower every like 2-3 days, I don't overshower as otherwise my hair just goes really horrible

#

But, damn

foggy fern
#

I was far enough away I needed a bus or uber to get there though

mystic ermine
#

I mean, the wind is a fun one

#

sometimes the wind can be really nice

foggy fern
#

The wind wasn't the positive, I meant the beach 😛

mystic ermine
#

sometimes it's basically like an asthmatic and kinda depressing

#

even more fun is when it feels like you're just blowing a hair dryer in your face

foggy fern
#

That's what it's like when you try to get by with just putting the windows down in the car in August 😛

#

Like, sure, you aren't sweaty while you're moving but it's hot as fuck still and you feel like you sweat worse whenever you hit a red light

mystic ermine
#

oh god, at college, my mate used to drive us to and fro fairly often

#

some days you'd open the car door and just get a massive burst of hot air right in your kisser

foggy fern
#

Yeah that's called May-September here 😛

#

Wait, I think that's also a porn thing, not that one

mystic ermine
#

Pmsl

foggy fern
hot haven
#

impressive

#

its a shame the hyperlink of the authors name opens a blank page

brisk cradle
#

Jamaica coalition is looking more unlikely

near glen
#

The CDU is a mess right now, they are unable to be part of a government

#

The CSU understood that and is preparing to be a strong opposition

#

Am just glad laschet is not coming back to my state, he is president of my state right now, but said he booked a one way ticket to Berlin, and seems to actually stand by his word and will resign here

steady furnace
#

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/czech-billionaire-pm-babis-seeks-new-term-vote-too-close-call-2021-10-07/ Really hope Babiš won't win again... His government killed thousands people during pandemic by reckless decisions, also increased Czech debt by ridiculous amount. He also is in conflict of interest - he is prime minister and owns and controls several czech big companies, including media ones... Well, cross you fingers... Unfortunately he does many populistic moves like increasing pensions although our country cannot afford it, so many people will probably still elect him...

Reuters
Czech billionaire PM Babis seeks second term in tight election race

Czechs began voting on Friday in a tight parliamentary election in which Prime Minister Andrej Babis hopes to win a second term despite criticism that he mismanaged the pandemic, ran up heavy debts and mixed business interests with those of his country.

near glen
#

That's was so fun when I found out he's negotiating EU grants for building companies that his own company profits from or something like that 😂

#

Also loved the whole new Pandora papers thing where population was like, wow, what a great buisness man, glad he's my president

steady furnace
#

Well yeah, if it wasn't related to our country, it would be funny... but in past people resigned from poitics when there was just a suspition of some little incident... he was found guilty but he said he will never ever resign... so I guess this is our only hope... BTW our president said he will let him to build a new government even if his party won't win... so fun times, our president and PM is really dream wombo combo...

near glen
#

Oh don't worry, I also find the bullshit that's going on in my own country funny

#

The guy that tux linked carried demonstrants out of tree houses in a forest, because he constructed the idea of a fire hazard (he has since said publicly that that was made up to find a way to get them out)

#

And with carried I mean brutally beaten by police, one demonstrant fell and died

#

Just because the coal mafia wanted that protest to shut up and laschet did as he was commanded to

steady furnace
#

well I was in this phase several years ago... many thing done (mainly) by president and PM were kinda funny... but the non-existent future our country runs towards with current government makes it hard to find funny...

#

but someone created similare account on fb for president's spokesman, it actually have more followers than the official one and he makes funny posts... also real spokesman's account became lifestyle blog... so he creates a post and people share recipes and other usefull stuff under it, so there are some funny things... but overall it is pretty bad... (self-censored a lot, would be probably banned for language otherwise :D)

foggy fern
#

This is an... interesting premise for a movie https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11737466/

IMDb
American Insurrection (2021) - IMDb

American Insurrection: Directed by William Sullivan. With Nadine Malouf, Nick Westrate, Brandon Perea, Sarah Wharton. Set in a dystopian America where all people who aren't straight, white, Christian and cis gender are kept track of by the government with bar codes.

dusky raft
#

I highly doubt conservatives want that. if that was a mainstream platform for conservatives, republicans would split among the seams

shy gulch
#

nobody said anything about conservatives but ok

#

u literally saw “american insurrection” and immediately got defensive about conservatives, strange

mystic ermine
#

I mean, I clicked on it

#

read the description

#

and it just felt like it was a typical "the left vs the world" type scenario

brisk cradle
hot haven
foggy fern
#

Didn't have barcode but I swear for a while there it seemed like there was 1 FBI agent for every person of middle eastern descent

dusky raft
#

@shy gulch I'm not a conservative, but generally speaking, the plot the movie uses is what the far left generally uses to demonize regular conservatives. And much like Marxism/socialism, conservativism is like a spectrum. Not everyone is orthodox or extreme.

deep ravine
near glen
brisk cradle
#

Apparently the conservative coalition came out on top

near glen
#

It's a not only conservative, it's 5 parties or something

#

Basically everybody else I think, lol

#

The goal was to get rid of babish or whatever his name is

#

Congrats @steady furnace i guess

steady furnace
#

Yeah, the result was as best as it could be, thank you! :-) we will se how president Zeman will complicate things as he promised he will name Babiš as PM and let him form new government regardless of elections result. He can do that twice and it can quite prolong forming new government. But the results are as best as anyone could have hoped. Communists and Czech social party are out of the play, Babiš's party is not first and democratic opposition have pretty big majority! :-)

steady furnace
#

And Zeman is in hospital, well that's that... His office was claiming he is healthy and fully able to do his presidential duties... Many people have doubts about that for a long time... Now it will be even harder to claim he is still able...

#

He should've abdicated long time ago... With some honour... He might have been a good or at least powerfull politician. What is he showinbg in past 4 years is just joke...

near glen
#

Kinda weird to have the president decides who gets to build a gov, here the parliment elects somebody (after they formed a coalition and agreed on a candidate) and then the president just signs it off and swears them in

steady furnace
#

I guess it was a traditional thing... But as Zeman has shown, it is possible to misuse any of his rights to do harm... (even if president had no power, his representation this spring was just...can't even describe it... No people should be this hateful and in this position? I am really glad that with those elections there is possibility for change...

#

But yeah, approach of your country makes more sense... At least in democratic country. One person should never have power to mangle with election results.

foggy fern
near glen
#

One of the feew good people on the commission

#

The rest are all convicted criminals, lmao

urban vector
#

slippery slope bullshit is always so boring

#

who is negatively impacted by this change vector

#

name one person

#

you think a fucking shampoo bottle not saying normal is gonna drive us into an oppressive society 💀

#

absolutely hilarious

#

as always, the biggest and most scariest enemy is the one you make up in your head

hot haven
#

most scary*

urban vector
#

an accurate description? typical for example

#

common perhaps

#

i mean, it really doesn't matter and i literally don't care

#

i don't believe this is going to lead to the downfall of society so i don't have much of an opinion tbh

#

sure, i mean you can read the article to see what their thoughts were

dusky raft
#

eh, products like that I dont really give too much of a damn

#

also what is normal when it comes to products like that?

#

no really? what is considered normal for soap?

tough cedar
#

normal?

#

brb checking my shampoos

dusky raft
#

lol

tough cedar
#

none of them have normal on the bottle ¯_(ツ)_/¯

dusky raft
#

they are unilever branded, right?

tough cedar
#

uhh i believe there were 3 bottles in there that were unilever yes

#

oh nevermind this isn't a new article

#

this is from march 10th lmao

urban vector
#

i can't believe it... what next? crisps won't say plain? what is the world coming to 😢😓😥😱😢😲😓

dusky raft
#

ah, still, id rather go with old spice/local than whatever the fuck unilever pushes out

restive seal
#

A problem with beauty products is that they sort of standardized on a particular subset of white people as 'normal' and everything else is some sort of abnormal. That sort of behavior is problematic and should be fixed (and fixing it isn't a bad sign for society - it just means we're accepting everyone for their hair, skin, etc) FacePalm

tough cedar
#

im not concerned with the bottle saying normal or not

dusky raft
#

will say, I didnt expect myself using old spice products 5 years ago, but I shifted away from all the expensive bullshit to something simple. $10 100ct blades are amazing.

restive seal
#

Don't go making your own slippery slopes to fall down!

tough cedar
#

was just curious if any of the bottles said it or not because i don't think i've really ever noticed it before lmao

#

but they were all bought after march 10th anyways so

urban vector
#

omg you're right, github no longer defaulting to master literally does mark the end times...

dusky raft
#

because fuck Gillette price hikes, along with almost every fucking 2+ blade razor on the market.

urban vector
#

an oppressive society is when companies decide, free of any coercion aside from their own evaluation of what public opinion might be, to change how they market their products

restive seal
dusky raft
#

I think git itself still uses master

urban vector
#

and don't forget that i have just invented a big massive slip-n-slide in my head for us all to travel on!

dusky raft
#

not too sure if its upstream or just fedora isms when it comes to compatibility

#

but yeah, if anyone wants to free themselves from Unilever/Gillette, highly recommend single blades. they are stupid cheap. high upfront cost though, but handles last pretty much forever

urban vector
#

when the consequences are imaginary, society-redefining scenarios that you've invented in your head in reaction to one word changing on a shampoo bottle, yes we do talk about slippery slopes

#

you mean to tell me history defines the consequences of a shampoo bottle changing one word just fine?

#

brb heading to jstor right now this shit sounds juicy

foggy fern
#

git added the ability to change the default branch name but was working through making all of their tests support this feature before they tried to actually change the default upstream

urban vector
#

which ideology is it that has been crying for one word to be removed from a shampoo bottle?

#

because the ideology i see is that of a company voluntarily making a decision of its own free will without any coercion. which does correspond to an ideology, but probably not the one you're getting at here..

dusky raft
#

I'm not really concerned with the normal labeling. I do have concern when it becomes forced by government

#

I just stop using said product if I dont like them.

#

or a service

restive seal
#

Main offends Christianity? Please elaborate.

#

So, "Jesus Christ" and derivatives? I can understand that.

dusky raft
#

@loud flax what you dont get is to cram how you feel down their throats. While the 1st amendment protects your rights to freedom of speech and assembly, it doesnt force people to listen to you.

slate haven
#

theres a bible verse that says that if someone isnt into christianity dont constantly try to shove it down their throats

#

i cant find it though

#

it isnt necessarily a bad thing

#

only if you constantly bug someone about it when they obviously aren't interested

#

in the eyes of the person doing that*

#

its just annoying for someone who isnt interested

restive seal
#

But find which god(s)? Do they exist, or is the person being duped into believing in a magical sky person? Does the religion they're being brought into encourage problematic behaviors like bigotry or sexism or abuse?

#

There's a big difference between teaching about math, which is concrete, and a specific variant of a religion.

dusky raft
#

wut

restive seal
#

Respectfully, are you just ignoring Christian history from roughly 0BC to... roughly now? Because golly there's a lot of problems in there, many still today.

dusky raft
#

as much as I am right wing, I will side with leftists when it comes to religion and history

#

christian history is full of atrocities in the name of god

#

but that goes with most religions

#

I should correct that, organized religion isnt great

#

but then again, I treat communism the same as religion really, dogma and doctrine

copper flower
#

That would mean forcing christianity on everyone, considering math is required for pretty much anything oO

#

that def is up for debate

shy gulch
#

religious studies should be taught in school, but of ALL major religions including all the bad shit they’ve done, not just the good stuff from one religion

#

science says otherwise

copper flower
#

Yeah, teaching religions from a scientific/history standpoint is fine, but don't force your beliefs on anyone

restive seal
#

Ah yes,

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

shy gulch
#

proven and reproducible science states that the universe came from chaos, formed by the trial-and-error interactions of gaseous and cosmic particles

restive seal
#

So they can understand how to solve problems? 🤔

copper flower
#

Christianity is a belief, Math is a science

shy gulch
#

because with all due respect christianity is all unprovable belief and opinion based on a several thousand year old book, math makes up the laws of the known universe and has been proven millions of times over

#

this is all one big yukes

#

yikes*

#

i suggest everyone else stop debating this person lol

restive seal
#

Uh yikes. I'm out.

copper flower
#

And even if you say the bible is right and god exists, there is still a lot up for interpretation and debate. as opposed to math, were 1+2 is always 2

restive seal
#

Please re-read the bible quote you're replying to.

#

And be really careful because sexist speech is a zero tolerance item in our rules.

shy gulch
#

yeah also that’s not true at all, for example hormone replacement therapy can give someone the complete body characteristics of the opposite sex to match their gender and help with dysphoria

restive seal
#

I said be careful going further in the direction of defending a verse that says woman have no authority over a man. Didn't give you an official warning, but moving in the direction of defending a verse that says women are to be in silence leads down a dangerous route.

shy gulch
#

it’s idiotic and outdated to say men and women are completely separate and more/less capable at certain things as a blanket statement

#

you would win Olympic gold in mental gymnastics

#

and??? muscle structure is different. how does that mean women are less capable

restive seal
#

Okay here's directly from your site. This is hilariously sexist.

The repeated reference to "quietness" here again has more to do with self-control than with absolute lack of sound. Women were not to overtake a worship service, by taking control of public prayers or teaching, and especially not through hysterics or commotion.

#

The use of "hysterics" is icing on the poop cake.

shy gulch
#

this article is so blatantly cultish and sexist

#

“help women act correctly “ what century are you from homie

#

cause it ain’t this one

restive seal
#

Where does it say it makes women less than men?

It's literally saying women can't do things men can.

shy gulch
#

what does that MEAN

restive seal
#

Same behavior for all genders.

#

Which apparently is specifically a woman problem! Per this verse.

shy gulch
#

ok but what does that have to do with women

#

baxter zwisxhenzug is obviously trolling

#

lmao

#

we keep engaging this Zwischenzug person and they’re gonna keep going

#

i suggest we stop

restive seal
#

!ban @warm ibex Sexist troll

feral hearthBOT
#

:raised_hands: Banned Zwischenzug#0780 (Sexist troll) [1 total infraction] -- mbaxter#1592.

restive seal
#

Boop.

sand shale
dark crystal
#

that bot should offer an option not to delete the messages because now this all makes 0 sense lmao

restive seal
#

I think I let that go on for too long but hey, useful thought exercise at least. How to interact with someone from the first century.

dark crystal
#

perhaps you'd have to talk to that someone in Old English some variant of Proto-Germanic but yeah

slate haven
restive seal
slate haven
#

sexism is cringe

tough cedar
#

wait, it doesn't add up anymore

restive seal
#

There's very little about the Texas approach to this pandemic that has added up anywhere good.

tough cedar
#

i was considering voting for him during the primary just so the even loonier republicans don't get the nomination

#

but he's seemingly gone ... loonier lately

restive seal
#

What if a so very out there candidate gets nomination so it finally flips the state blue? Might be the better option at this point.

tough cedar
#

i suppose that's a possibility too

#

dunno if i have enough faith in the democrats to pull someone moderate enough though

#

and by moderate i only mean someone who isn't completely 'anti 2nd amendment'

foggy fern
#

lol, just saw a clip of the head of the seattle police union complaining about the vaccine mandate being "bully tactics"

#

They'd know all about that, huh?

near glen
#

2nd amendment was the weapons bullshit, right?

#

Can just nominate somebody who wants to do more useless background checks or whatever to please the masses

#

Well, first hurdle, do I really wanna watch a fox news video?

#

Oh god that actively hurts watching

#

First: what kinda people are you to shit on your colleges like that?

#

Second: if you talk about numbers, why not you know, show them? Lmao

#

Third: it's the same us vs the world bullshit right wingers always pull, everything is rigged or propaganda or whatever and they dont even care to talk about specifics

#

Idk why you made me watch that

smoky hedge
#

Ngl definitely getting the vibe that you're trying to be purposefully antagonistic

foggy fern
#

It's pretty weird for Fox News to have a big segment about this to begin with

#

Like, sometimes the other networks will talk about the crazy things Tucker Carlson or whoever is saying which is already borderline weird but at least they're reporting on something kind of relevant

#

Shit talking another network about their ratings feels like some inside baseball junk

near glen
#

That has nothing to do with my political views tho

near glen
#

These are just universal principles, like human decency

#

If that's already something that you can't agree on anymore, then your are horribly detached from society

foggy fern
#

Eh, that's a bit much

near glen
#

I mean, isn't human decency like the fundament of our society?

broken raven
#

wow Vector is still here

#

no one survives in the politics channel this long

urban vector
#

to you, yes - the average member of the public is not gonna sit and give enough of a shot to think that a shampoo bottle renaming one word is a sign of hate

#

please, you've got to move on

#

it's one word on a shampoo bottle dude

#

one word

#

on a shampoo bottle

#

i literally don't care?

#

as ive said, i genuinely do not give a shit what the shampoo is called because there are quite possibly billions of things in my life that i care more about than one word on a shampoo bottle

#

the shampoo bottle renaming ideology pepela

#

please dude this is borderline worrying

#

go outside, talk to people - it's not some big grand conspiracy to rename shampoo bottles as a sign of a shift in morality lmfao

#

im not trying to see your side because it's one word on a shampoo bottle

#

like, please, do you genuinely see this as a sign of the downfall of our society?

#

is this actually a genuine fear you have

#

right okay, i mean this in the kindest way possible, please consider that all you're doing is sounding like some batshit conspiracy theorist here

#

you clearly care about this so why don't you know the answer to that

#

it seems like you repeatedly are coming to opinions on things without actually doing any research

#

they and the cleveland indians have done multiple months worth of consultations with stakeholder and members of the community (both affected and not affected)

#

maybe try and broaden your horizons from borderline neo-nazis sometimes yeah?

#

even basic research on the topics would help

#

five minutes of googling

#

would jesus sit crying about a shampoo bottle changing one word

#

literally who said they have gone through equal oppression

#

you've made up the enemy in your head again vector

smoky hedge
#

There’s a big difference between “a word is harmful” and “every harmful word has the same level of harm and history”

#

It’s difficult to compare harm of words because of the vast difference in how they’re used and the history behind them

urban vector
#

the enemy is.. the ideology of... being nice to people?

smoky hedge
#

I mean you are stating far right talking points yes, likely due to listening to Jordan Peterson

smoky hedge
#

I do agree that in a lot of cases he’s not outright far right, but the way he approaches things encourages that type of thinking

foggy fern
#

Oh, they changed the title

#

Basically they're calling on Republicans to help elect moderate Democrats instead of people like Matt Gaetz

#

For disaffected Republicans, this means an openness to backing centrist Democrats. It will be difficult for lifelong Republicans to do this — akin to rooting for the other team out of fear that your own is ruining the sport entirely — but democracy is not a game, which is why when push comes to shove, patriotic conservatives should put country over party.

#

If that actually works it could be the start of the party that some day will replace the Republicans

tough cedar
#

For Democrats, this similarly means being open to conceding that there are certain races where progressives simply cannot win and acknowledging that it makes more sense to throw their lot in with a center-right candidate who can take out a more radical conservative.

foggy fern
#

Right, which is why it could be the start of a new party

tough cedar
#

love to see it, don't think there is saving the current republican party at this point

foggy fern
#

You build a coalition of voters across party lines to vote for centrists in races where only they'd win then those folks expand from there and try to vote in centrists everywhere

#

I don't think it'll actually work though

restive seal
#

Oh, so you're into free healthcare for all and social programs to feed the poor! 😀

I bet Jesus would have a Bernie sticker on his bicycle. 😂

urban vector
#

what's the tl;dr?

#

"we should be kind to others" and "we should not do the bare minimum to not offend people" are a weird pair of positions to take

mystic ermine
#

That guy basically started tryna speak to somebody in the Klan and basically ended up taking the guys uniform home after he hung it up for good

urban vector
#

okay, what on earth does that have to do with a company changing the name of their shampoo

#

who on earth was cancelling shampoo labels vector

#

is this the imaginary enemy again

#

who was cancelling shampoo labels

#

ask yourself the question, "is it cancel culture, or is it a company voluntarily making a change despite no social pressure for them to do so in order to gain publicity"

#

but your only other example was a company who went through months of consultation with the local community, affected stakeholder, impacted minority groups, fans and athletes before coming to a decision

#

it's "cancel culture" not "consultation culture"

foggy fern
#

Cancel culture, to the extent it's even a real thing, is really just a sign we need to abolish social media 😛

#

We have a history of people doing letter writing campaigns and such to make it clear when a company or person does something they don't agree with, social media just makes it a million times easier for people to dogpile on without really thinking about it

#

Companies or anyone popular enough and also rich enough to have a PR team welcome being "cancelled" because it's free advertising

restive seal
#

"cancel culture" is a crappy rebrand of "accountability" for the most part.

foggy fern
#

Eh, the dogpile is the problem

#

Twitter villain of the day shit

#

That's just hilarious 😛

#

He had a contract for everyone that filmed in his buildings that, aside from getting paid, he also got to have a cameo. However, his contract didn't say the cameo had to make the final cut of the film, just that they had to film it.

#

I think Home Alone 2 was the only movie where they didn't just cut it first chance they got

#

I don't see the point of going back 30 years to remove him from a film, no

#

The details around why he was in the film make it kind of funny if they do so though

urban vector
#

ah, you finally got round to reading the article then

foggy fern
#

The beauty industry has always made everyone who isn't their ideal group feel excluded, that's kind of their thing

shy gulch
#

link article pls i wa t to read

#

want

#

im on mobile and can’t find it lol

#

why is that a problem lol

#

a company is trying to be more inclusive to people who historically have been excluded on beauty products and make them feel more welcome

#

they’re a private company, if you don’t like progress and inclusivity then go buy from some backward ass brand lol

#

in a free market system, people vote with their money, so quit complaining about a single word on a hygiene brands product labels lmao

#

whats wrong with that?

#

being more inclusive

#

to minorities

#

to “us”? who you talking abt

#

how are white people lowered by a shampoo bottle company becoming more diverse and inclusive

#

your wording reeks of prejudice

mystic ermine
#

Just seems dumb

shy gulch
#

navigate what, what is there to navigate? if you’re not an affected minority nothing changes for you, you keep the same privileges

mystic ermine
#

to care about removing the term "normal" from their thing

shy gulch
#

exactly like let the company be more inclusive

#

doesn’t hurt you and helps others feel better

mystic ermine
#

or for the term "normal" which describes the behavior of peoples hair to have any form of factor on their self worth or their incling to buy a product

tough cedar
#

More definitively, the survey also found that seven in 10 people felt that using the word “normal” on packaging and advertising had a negative impact on the consumer -- this number rose to eight out of 10 with people aged between 18 and 35.

shy gulch
#

but you wouldn’t like it if you had black hair and a beauty product insinuated that it wasn’t “normal”

tough cedar
#

i didn't know there were so many people that cared that the bottle said normal on it lol

#

i've never given it any thought

mystic ermine
#

I mean, normal, I'd imagine in this context would describe the behavior of the average persons hair

#

there's gonna be people who need a different formula, or people who need extra stuff like for dandruff, etc

shy gulch
#

but wouldnt it be nicer if you were just …included?

foggy fern
#

The beauty industry is basically about feeding that nagging voice in your head telling you you aren't as good as the people in the ads but if you use their products maybe you can transform yourself to be more like them

shy gulch
#

im not saying i’m black because i’m not but trying to put this into perspective

mystic ermine
#

I mean, inclusion of people is nice

#

But, I mean, is there a need to pander to self exclusion?

shy gulch
#

then there’s no problem with the word change then

mystic ermine
#

if your hair needs extra care or attention than the regular consumer, is that an issue

#

🤷‍♂️

shy gulch
foggy fern
#

They've been transitioning instead to try to actually be about "being a better you" instead of just saying that while trying to sell you products to make you someone else

mystic ermine
#

if the fact that your shampoo doesn't have the word "normal" on it but the one the majority of the population uses does, I'd argue that you're basically tryna exclude yourself if you take that as a personal dig

foggy fern
#

Normal is a weird word choice though when they presumably mean average

#

But it doesn't bother me either way

urban vector
#

you're not really trying that hard tbh, like it's really zero effort for them to swap a word out - if it offends less people and is a more accurate word, literally what is the downside? who is negatively affected here? who is the victim?

mystic ermine
#

I mean, I just kinda question "who cares"

foggy fern
#

Mostly because I'm a dude who doesn't care too much about his hair

shy gulch
#

nah it’s all good, and honestly it’s really awesome to see people who acknowledge their positions and perspective limitations

mystic ermine
#

We know, amar

#

||jk ily||

urban vector
shy gulch
near glen
#

That's the thing, it doesn't bother you (or me for that matter), but we aren't maginzed (or however you spell that)

mystic ermine
#

Well, that doesn't really clarify "who" they surveyed, but, I mean, as I said, why does your shampoo not saying "normal" on it have some incling against you

foggy fern
#

When I was trying to pay attention to that stuff I never bought the "normal" hair shampoo though since my hair isn't "normal"

mystic ermine
#

It's hair?

#

I used to have to use the anti-dandruff stuff

#

some of my friends of color have to go towards more moisturising brands of shampoo otherwise their hair dries out faster

urban vector
#

go ask the 7/10 people they surveyed lmao

#

just because you can't think of a reason, doesn't mean one doesn't exist

shy gulch
#

moving away from biased and overly gendered products is something im all for

urban vector
#

like, if you're having to sit here questioning why a progressive change was made, you're probably not the target...

mystic ermine
#

I mean, doesn't really feel progressive

#

But, idk 🤷‍♂️

urban vector
#

the idk was the important part there cat

mystic ermine
#

Just feels that people have their values in the wrong place

urban vector
#

again, just because you can't understand or see why X happened, doesn't mean there was no reason for X to happen

shy gulch
#

sometimes it sucks for certain people to have to read something that’s worded a certain way for whatever reason, and for a lot of people(myself included) who care a lot@about their hair it’s nice to feel included

#

as dumb as it may seem

urban vector
#

they're a shampoo company?! wtf else can they do lmao???

shy gulch
#

if you’re not affected

urban vector
#

ofc their progressive change is gonna be shampoo based that's literally all they do

mystic ermine
#

I mean, these are often larger firms which deal with other aspects in their business

#

They could like, invest more resources into the people whom they say they're tryna help

urban vector
#

does doing X mean you can't also do Y

shy gulch
#

i cant speak for kezz but ALL THE TIME. tiny little things you wouldn’t even think about

urban vector
#

like, are you saying this knowing that they aren't doing Y, or are you just guessing?

shy gulch
#

and I live in a place that’s very queer-friendly

glossy sandal
#

Why would a label stop you from using whatever product you want to use

foggy fern
#

I'm okay with that argument, it's probably true most of the time

mystic ermine
#

Pretty much

foggy fern
#

Their customers (or potential customers) say they don't like the name, they change the name, they get attention for it (positive or negative), that makes you talk about them more, maybe you need some new shampoo and hey I've been hearing a lot about Dove recently

shy gulch
#

I mean I don’t even use dove products anyway but I think they took a step in the right direction

glossy sandal
#

How is dove changing wording on the product a step in the right direction

mystic ermine
#

I mean, props to them for being more inclusive, but, I mean, I'm the type of person who'd kinda love to see whom the 7/10 are, is "normal" an actual issue or are they just gonna move onto another post, i.e. is this more a self inflicted confidence issue rather than an actual sociatal issue that product marketed for the majority of the country have the word "normal" on it, especially in terms of a product in which outside of a few people I know, just use the "regular" brands

#

But, I mean, we where all happy and clapping a few months ago when all of the big brands repainted their logos with the flag (in regions where they'd gain points and nowhere else, and removed the instant the clock took over and the social team was in)

shy gulch
#

rainbow capitalism where companies queerbait for profit isn’t ok, but it’s nice to have brands do rainbow stuff out of actual solidarity

#

it’s frustrating when cishet people commenting negatively on things that don’t affect them

glossy sandal
#

Cishet

shy gulch
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what?

glossy sandal
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Havent heard that before was googling it

shy gulch
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oh haha it means cisgender/heterosexual

foggy fern
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For biological sexes there are probably like 5? I don't know the exact number but it's more than 2. Gender is a social construct though so there are as many as we say there are.

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We being society

urban vector
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even biological sex is just classification of primary/secondary sex characteristics under common groupings

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which happens to be relatively bimodal

foggy fern
dusky raft
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if gender is a social construct, it means it can change per society. It can be as rigid as traditional binary system or be whatever the fuck it is today that is being spread out.

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with that being said, I just avoid the whole gender bullshit, its either your name or they

broken raven
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genders are overrated

shy gulch
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gender was invented by bathroom companies to sell twice as many bathrooms

dusky raft
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yeah, why not have a single bathroom hall with stall walls from floor to ceiling?

shy gulch
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zyphys with the facts

vast phoenix
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generally speaking though most species are in the male/female category

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(I'm not sure if you count asexual animals as a biological sex category though so I left that out)

urban vector
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well no

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that's not true at all lmao

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and no biologist uses the term hermaphrodite anymore

shy gulch
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yeah pretty sure thats not a nice word to use anymore

vast phoenix
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well it's not if you're specifically calling someone that yeah

shy gulch
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so why'd you use it then? lol

vast phoenix
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wasn't aimed at anyone

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sorry if it sounded that way

shy gulch
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the term most people use now is intersex afaik

vast phoenix
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I know yeah I was referring to other species

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soz for misunderstanding

urban vector
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no, even in other species that term isn't really used anymore

shy gulch
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what?

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im confused

urban vector
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what on earth are you on about vector

shy gulch
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this mf buggin

urban vector
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what does that have to do with anything lmao

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are you really trying to compare scientific understanding evolving to people who once thought slavery was okay?

shy gulch
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average papermc tweaker

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most mentally stable mc dev

urban vector
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"a discussion about science? let's talk about slavery!"

shy gulch
urban vector
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good, nice to hear you've become an enthusiastic supporter of trans rights then vector

shy gulch
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lessgo

urban vector
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growth 💪

vast phoenix
shy gulch
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progress 😈

restive seal
vast phoenix
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you can be the dumbass like me and headbutt the door till it breaks lmfao

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Don't actually do this kids

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Disclaimer: I didn't do this to the door of a bathroom stall

shy gulch
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take security screwdriver into stall, remove entire stall, epic prank

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gender is a spectrum

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let me put it this way

vast phoenix
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It's complicated, that's all I can say

urban vector
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as amaranth said, it is widely accepted that gender is a social construct

shy gulch
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if all your friends told you to jump off a cliff, would you do it?

vast phoenix
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(I don't think there are that many though?)

shy gulch
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if all your friends told you to conform to gender and societal norms, would you do it?

vast phoenix
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sorry for my ignorance but I genuinely don't know

urban vector
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there can be as many or as little as you like, it's a construct

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we didn't go and dig up old fossils that told us that girls wear dresses

shy gulch
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vector rejects their biological sex assigned at birth? based

urban vector
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these are the roles and constructs that have been created and moulded by society

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thus they are as malleable as you want them to be

shy gulch
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women's suffrage was damaging? what

vast phoenix
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I'm guessing you're referring to the events that led to suffrage?

shy gulch
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oh

urban vector
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im sure they'll be really happy to hear you say this

vast phoenix
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to be fair back then some places did treat women pretty badly before suffrage was a thing so Vector has a point

shy gulch
urban vector
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women all around can rejoice they finally have vector's approval

vast phoenix
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no need to be so sarcastic y'all I don't think that's what Vector meant...

shy gulch
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rofl! 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 ]

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um

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uh

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whos gonna tell them

vast phoenix
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guys... calm down a little before continuing to debate...

urban vector
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well, blatant transphobia, weird holocaust stuff i can't really remember, hosting other far right people regularly, etc, etc

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oh yeah, racism, rejection of provably true details on white privilege, etc, using nazi/alt-right dogwhistles

shy gulch
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refuses to use preferred pronouns is one teensy other little thing he does

urban vector
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yes, he's against a bill that doesn't exist - the actual bill was so watered down and boring compared to the one he invented in his head to campaign against

vast phoenix
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what in the actual world is compelled speech

urban vector
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nothing

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it doesn't exist

vast phoenix
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at this point I can't be sure if it's good or bad that have no idea what most of this stuff is