#politics
foggy fern
You do have to show it is likely you will violate the law and be prosecuted for it but uh... duh?
I guess I should read the Court's statements on the matter, perhaps they argue it's a widespread injury and thus you can't have an injunctive lawsuit
That would be a weird argument to make though
faint radish
this wasnt a merits challenge
those takes months sometimes
they were seeking injunctive relief until a merits case could be decided
and that's what the court said no to
foggy fern
Right so 5 of the Justices basically said that because Texas was trying to be sneaky the case is too complicated for injunctive relief
Trying to see if they even attempt to argue they aren't "likely to succeed on the merits"
How long until a state makes it illegal to own a gun but leave it up to citizens to sue anyone caught selling or gifting one? đ
Maybe that case will work through the system faster
near glen
I don't trust the German people to do what's best for me, I trust them to collectively do what's best for our society. The same is true for the government. I wouldn't trust individuals, but if you see it collectively I can say that
loud flax
ah, alright
near glen
France granted citizenship to foreign workers that worked in essential services during COVID-19, over 12k people
That's nice
More countries should do that
tough cedar
people with green cards in france?
near glen
Idk what a green card is supposed to mean, they are foreign workers, so people without french nationality working in France
near glen
Idk about France, but stuff like that generally isn't nessasary in the US
You can work and live whereever
foggy fern
16,000 people applied, 12,000 were accepted because it seems like the main change wasn't to outright grant them citizenship but to reduce the requirements
Only have to live in France 2 years instead of 5 is the example the post gives
They don't say if these are Schengen Area people are not though
I'd imagine not otherwise citizenship would be an "eh, maybe later" thing I would think, not some big rush
near glen
Meh, it's still a big sign of acceptance to be gifted citizenship
plush crypt
Norway now has a new parliament, with 100 mandates for the red-green vs 68 for the old conservative, capitalist government. The new prime minister will be Jonas Gahr Støre (Labour) đ
@brisk cradle 
foggy fern
Nice
brisk cradle
<@129282174414356480> <a:peepoFlute:676470027347820544>
Very nice
And today we have the California recall election
Will Gavin Newsom keep his job? Signs point to yes
near glen
Germans general election is next Sunday, that will be fun
The coalition that will come out of that will be interesting
Most likely labor + green + neo liberal or stupid stuff like that đ
There is also hope for left + greens + labor
There could also be something with the conservatives, but that would be a giant mess too
Like a cursed coalition like the conservatives, the greens and the neo liberals
Labor plus conservatives, the current coalition, most likely will not have enough on its own
deep ravine
How long until a state makes it illegal to own a gun but leave it up to citizens...
Do you know why the bill did that? Why not investigate clinics every once in awhile instead?
âItâs up to civilians to enforceâ just sounds silly
brisk cradle
Do you know why the bill did that? Why not investigate clinics every once in awh...
The fact is that the bill intended to shield itself from lawsuits since the state does not have the power to enforce it. In theory. But the state would inexorably be tied up with it anyway because the cases filed would be heard in state court by employees of the state.
Every challenge to anti-abortion law so far has relied on the bills being enforced by the state. Texas got creative in its attempt to do an end-run around the Constitution
near glen
Old and busted: losing an election and claiming fraud
New hotness: claiming fraud before election day and pulling out
glossy sandal
Wait what if they released the fraud report thing on their website too early by accident and now they're playing it off
foggy fern
Yeah, they had the whole thing ready to go ahead of time and accidentally pulled the trigger before the polls closed
foggy fern
Just had a company meeting about the OSHA vaccine mandate stuff, basically they said once the rules are published we aren't going to try to fight them and will comply to exactly what the rules say, no more and no less
People kept trying to ask for details on who would or wouldn't have to get vaccinated
Answer to all questions was ÂŻ_(ă)_/ÂŻ
loud flax
i know this isn't exactly politics, but have you guys heard of this podcast? https://open.spotify.com/show/2JlGAHkwKjJYjN3iR8IL0U
brisk cradle
it's a genius move
they want their ppl to vote but they're also saying their vote doesn't matter
GOP: the party of smooth brains
glossy sandal
It's only voter fraud if they lose
near glen
Apple be doing apple stuff
Copying an app 1:1, then removing the original from the app store đ¤Ą
The app was originally uploaded to the app store with apple watch support in 2018 and then the dev showed it to people at apple
faint radish
#paywall
But, does the app violate the guidelines?
Apple introduced that swipe typing stuff on other devices a couple years ago, and now itâs on the Apple Watch
Apple also removed the entire need for flashlight apps by adding a super easy flashlight button, is that the same?
near glen
Did they remove all flashlight apps from the app store for violating their guidelines?
No paywall for me btw
faint radish
Idk, but did the app violate the guidelines? If it did, Iâve got no problem with kicking it off, if it didnât, and apples making this up to get rid of it, then thatâs not great
near glen
The violation is being an keyboard for the apple watch
faint radish
Yeah, and frankly, it doesnât matter specificallywhat the guidelines are, if thereâs one saying you canât make an app thatâs colored blue, thatâs totally fine
near glen
The app is older than the guideline
faint radish
If they just changed the guidelines like within the last few months to exclude this, the that probably counts as Apple doing this just to get rid of the app
But I donât quite understand why Apple would remove it at all. They know their system is gonna be instantly more popular
Like, Appleâs whole air tag system. They didnât kick tile off of iPhones
They just know that theirs is gonna be way better, so Iâm struggling to see how itâs really to apples advantage to get rid of this, knowing what backlash might happen
near glen
Lmao that triggers the payment thing for me but not the OG site
mystic ermine
I have a plugin for paywalls
near glen
Am on mobile
faint radish
Lmao that triggers the payment thing for me but not the OG site
Thatâs hilarious.
So couple things stand out, the whole scam copy-cats is interesting and should def be looked at. I know from a consumer point of view, I want to be able to determine the best app.
Several times in that article they talk about apples monopoly, which was just determined to not exist legally.
And itâs interesting how other apps that did the same thing were still allowed, so Iâm a little confused there. If they wanted to replace that feature with their own product, why stop just one?
faint radish
No ik that, well before the epic case, I was just saying that as a new development
And his app wasnât approved, so it couldnât be the market leader
near glen
An update wasn't approved
If I read this correctly
Idk, it was online for quite some time
faint radish
Right, but the update that made it the market leader wasnât approved. The article said then it went on to be the top app after that update was approved
This just doesnât seem as simple as âApple kills app to clear the way for its own versionâ
near glen
Oh yeah, it just got removed again is the new development I guess
faint radish
Are those other apps that do the same thing still up? Iâm gonna have to look more into this tmrw.
faint radish
But, gotta mention this
"Gen. Li, you and I have known each other for now five years. If we're going to attack, I'm going to call you ahead of time," Milley added, as reported by the book, "Peril," which is set to be released next week. "It's not going to be a surprise."
Top us military guy (under pres.) said that to top Chinese military guy
On Jan 8 according to bob Woodwardâs new book
Now this strikes me as⌠very bad
near glen
That's not anything special and happens in agency circles all the time, its what prevents wars
foggy fern
Wow the California recall was called 30 minutes after the polls closed
The polling beforehand was way off, seems like maybe they over corrected after 2016 and 2020 and biased the polling toward Republicans
Larry Elder was in fact the top pick for who should replace Newsom but the recall itself failed, so far 65-35 for Newsom to stay
foggy fern
Seems like no one got a screenshot of it (at least not that I can find at 3am) but I've seen a few mentions on reddit and twitter that the original Fox News headline was "Embattled Gov. Newsom's fate is sealed after facing slew of GOP challengers in monthslong recall race"
faint radish
That's not anything special and happens in agency circles all the time, its what...
Back channel communication I totally get, warning before an attack, thatâs not the same
foggy fern
Obviously it wouldn't be a warning of when and where, just that such sable rattling was serious
brisk cradle
Seems like no one got a screenshot of it (at least not that I can find at 3am) b...
Another âDewey defeats Trumanâ moment.
tough cedar
https://www.businessinsider.com/haspel-us-headed-toward-right-wing-coup-after-election-book-2021-9 i wonder if these political books are ever worth reading
narrow ore
Larry Elder was in fact the top pick for who should replace Newsom but the recal...
sure, but election-day ballots lean republican, and rn it's 64-36 with about 70% reporting
so i think the margin will narrow slowly but not nearly enough to get close to 50+1
foggy fern
Yes on recall would have had to win all of the election day votes to overtake the early voting numbers
If it goes past 60-40 I'd be surprised
faint radish
looks like Australia is getting nuclear sub tech
near glen
gotta nuke those kangaroos!
faint radish
well, its just nuclear-powered submarines, not nuclear weapons
shut vine
Yeah should be interesting, they wasted billions to start replacing current submarines with French Diesel designs, politics got in the way which lead to locally manufacturing them entirely which was just a bad idea since we didn't have the local expertise (cost blowout went from 100%, to 375% fairly rapidly). Now they want to do nuclear reactors and submarines all locally.
All of that original work is basically being scrapped.
near glen
why does one need submarines exactly?
faint radish
submarines are key for deterrence
mystic ermine
why does every world power have machinery at the ready?
faint radish
its very hard to know exactly where all are at all times, so its extremely hard to wipe them all out at once ensuring no retaliation strike
mystic ermine
Like, I mean, in the ideal world, we wouldn't need things like nukes, war planes, war ships, submarines for the sake of the army...
faint radish
its very easy, or at least much easier (nowadays) to know where all ground installations, and surface equipment (land & sea) are, so those can be targetted easily
mystic ermine
Shamefully, this is not an ideal world
loud flax
words cause wars, machinery end them, why can't words also stop wars?
i guess machinery starts them too sometimes
loud flax
diplomacy
mystic ermine
You gonna go tell the taliban that abusing women is wrong, or?
near glen
you gonna go try tell them with weapons again?
clearly that option has proven to be unusable
mystic ermine
I mean, that was a 2 decade long fuckup of the intelligence and army states, as well as a fucking moronic "hey lets pull out our support from an already disheartened and weak army"
But, hey, at least when our guns where there in our hands, the country was doing much better
But, I mean, that's beyond the point; Weapons exist, nothing is gonna change that until some huge massive ass "lets get along movement" starts, but, that's at least half a century off
near glen
was there ever a period of piece while the west invaded afghanistan?
when was the last time you got attacked by a submarine?`lol
loud flax
this was a good situation for a news media like CNN to show its true colors
but nah, from what i've seen, it's largely moved past the afghanistan situation
mystic ermine
was there a period of peace? not really
has stuff gone to shit now that the taliban run the place? yes.
Well, yea, they hammered biden for like a week or two as they basically had no choice and moved the fuck on as soon as reports started coming out
even Vox knew that the afghan army would basically drop
There is apparently a phone call between biden and their president where biden said they'd keep air support around or something if he lies and projects that the afghan army is doing better than it is
I mean, the sad truth is that strength comes in might, and machinery offers a lot of might
Why do you think post WW2 there hasn't been a nuke dropped on enemy territory?
At the end of the day, these tools offer strength and resources which help protect a country, even if it's just a projection of fear of "we've got the tech to wipe you off the face of the earth when you sleep"
foggy fern
We were talking about this the other day, Kindle on the iPhone
90% vaccinated, daily testing required for anyone who won't or can't be vaccinated, meanwhile they tell people the vaccines don't work and shouldn't be required
shut vine
Guess you missed the fact they will get fined 14k per instance of a person coming to work without a vaccine or test. đ
foggy fern
Those rules don't actually exist yet but it sounds like will only require weekly testing
The $14,000 part is just the maximum for an OSHA violation, iirc
Like, no one has come out and said specifically how the new OSHA rules will work or what the punishments will be for violation
cinder fog
In Russia, telegram, google docs, DNS servers from google and cloudflare were blocked due to the fact that they distribute voting lists on the Smart Voting program before the elections, but the opposition does not despair and published the lists on github. Waiting for the blocking đ
brisk cradle
In Russia, telegram, google docs, DNS servers from google and cloudflare were bl...
Banning GitHub is always a very risky move. Even the Chinese government knows they can't ban GitHub.
foggy fern
I think China just puts pressure on Microsoft to block certain repos from Chinese users instead
faint radish
Whatâs the problem with banning GitHub?
foggy fern
All of their developers stop working
Because all of their tooling dies or they can't access the stuff they were working on/with anymore
near glen
They DDoS GitHub instead đ
dark crystal
https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1438548409636556800?s=19
._.
the boomer conservatives can't get their heads around metric?
torn wadi
the boomer conservatives can't get their heads around metric?
You can't deny that saying "2 shoes of beans please" is more convenient.
What if I want to fill my roommates shoes with beans? Do you expect me to take his shoes, fill them with water to measure their volume, then use that information to calculate how many grams of beans I need?
mystic ermine
many industries in the UK still use imperial measurements
making it legal for people to use a measure which people grew up their whole lives with, I really don't see the fuss
It's not like it's a requirement for companies to do it, just that they can
urban vector
they are literally making it legal for for people to use a measurement which they haven't grown up their whole lives with
pretty much everyone who is younger than 40 will have lived in a world where metric has been the standard
mystic ermine
and?
urban vector
it's pretty bloody clear why metric is better
mystic ermine
and?
urban vector
they do not teach imperial measurements in school anywhere near the same extent to which they do metric
mystic ermine
Why should it be illegal for people selling stuff to use what in some industries is a preferred metric? even if there is a "better" replacement
Cool
But, why should it be illegal to use an older measurement system?
urban vector
in what industries is imperial preferred?
urban vector
right, which are known exceptions to the metric rule so are not impacted by this ruling at all
mystic ermine
But, they are?
urban vector
and also, it is not illegal to use older measurement systems, you just have to use metric - nobody is stopping you from also putting imperial measurements alongside
how are they impacted by a ruling which makes it okay to use imperial measurements if they literally already use imperial measurements
mystic ermine
I mean, they're just making it legal for stores to not have to offer metric units if they don't want to
any store which throws out their metric units is just dumb, but, I don't see why it should be illegal to do that
urban vector
which they can already do, as long as they have some metric measurements alongside as well which is absolutely the most accessible way
mystic ermine
which once again, anybody which throws out their metric measurements is dumb, but, why should it be a legal requirement?
weary lake
Because customers want to know how much something contains. If you use a measurement people are familiar with, then they know how much water is in a bottle, or how much food in a package. If you use measurements nobody knows, no one knows how much they;re buying. Same idea for the ingredients of a product itself.
urban vector
for accessibility
and, if you still need or want to use imperial measurements, you can
i also love the "post-brexit" in that headline, as if the eu had anything to do with metrification in the uk
mystic ermine
I mean, I get it, for end users it would be dumb to not use a measurement which has been taught too well in several dozens of years
EU literally made it illegal to to use just imperial units
urban vector
which we had an exemption for
faint radish
which once again, anybody which throws out their metric measurements is dumb, bu...
Yeah, Iâm with cat here, why was it illegal to begin with? What does the law have to do with labeling how much stuff is in smth.
urban vector
Because customers want to know how much something contains. If you use a measure...
.
mystic ermine
But, why should it be illegal if two parties want to agree on trading and measuring in imperial?
urban vector
it literally isn't illegal
mystic ermine
Yes it is
You cannot measure in an imperial system
You cannot legally use imperial scales
urban vector
yes you can, as long as you also provide metric measurements
mystic ermine
Last I knew, the law quite literally states that you cannot measure without using "legal measurements and scales", so, if you wanted to deal in pounds, you'd legally need to convert to metric, measure, and then go back
daring locust
is this another instance of uk law being uk law?
faint radish
Because customers want to know how much something contains. If you use a measure...
Then itâs in the best interest of the product makers to do so. Why is the government getting involved? Maybe you only make products for this one small town that still uses imperial measurements, but the government steps in and says, no, you gotta put these other measurements on there that no one you sell to knows.
There are lots of things in the best interest of the consumer but the government doesnât get involved forcing companies to do what the government thinks is best
urban vector
these hypotheticals literally dont exist though
faint radish
Thatâs not really the point, itâs that the government is saying itâs knows whatâs best at any time (in this situation) , instead of the people actually trying to sell the product (who have a significant interest in people buying it)
foggy fern
Having everyone on the same page for weights and measures is a consumer protection thing
At this point anyway
btw basically everything in the US has both measurements
Well, produce and such is done in pounds only but everything packaged has both
That's required by law even
Fair Packaging and Labeling Act
brisk cradle
While you ponder this, listen to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkRYuMqw-B0
foggy fern
Yeah, that sounds about right for Bloomberg
Pushing the same old neolib agenda just usually trying to wrap it in leftist messaging these days
brisk cradle
I did a big wall of text on a not-so-secret Discord so I'll copy that here
primarily because we had this, in the early 20th century, and now the pattern will repeat with warehouses
for Amazon, a highly horizontally and vertically integrated business, that means a repeat of the old company towns of yore - imagine an Amazon warehouse worker living in Amazon-built housing, rented from Amazon, going to work in an Amazon warehouse, running 20 miles a day with commands barked via an app on a Fire tablet, then if they're lucky to not get exhausted to death, will get their groceries from an Amazon Go store, head home, watch a movie on Amazon Prime Video, and then head to bed
of course, in the background, an Amazon-designed computer program running in a data center in Virginia crunches your performance data and if it's not up to an arbitrary standard, you get fired and have to move out, and you are fucked as you have almost no money because it got deducted from your paycheck on those Amazon Go runs
you now have $200 in your bank account and nowhere to go
welcome to late-stage capitalism
brisk cradle
yeah, the chaebols are guilty of much of the same
Samsung even owns a life insurance company in South Korea, which is kind of insane
in the West Samsung is mostly known for electronics
weary lake
Then itâs in the best interest of the product makers to do so. Why is the govern...
From what Kezz says, that's still possible as long as you provide a metric measurement as well. The problem is that it may not be in the product makers interest to provide metric measurements (for people that are used to metric). For example, I could use an imperial measurement to measure how much sugar or fat or smth else my product contains. This makes it difficult for people to know how much of these a product actually contains, making it seem more healthy than it actually is. If I'm on a specific diet, or just want to lower my sugar intake for example, this becomes more difficult because I now have to learn the imperial system or constantly have to use my phone or smth else to convert between imperial and metric.
The ideal situation would be providing both measurements, but if a product maker can use a vague unit to obscure how unhealthy a product is, then they will do that.
foggy fern
This is amusing because nutrition labels in the US use metric
The only experience people are likely to have with how much is in a gram is from weed đ
faint radish
Well yikes, Biden admin admits that the drone strike did indeed kill 10 regular civilians. Aid worker carrying water jugs for his fam. https://apple.news/A8dmNeT6jSSWkqmUsMrHmxQ
foggy fern
oof
foggy fern
Huh, France recalled their ambassadors to US and Australia because they're upset they lost the contract for Australia's submarines
faint radish
Yeah, idk whatâs up w/France
(But also, they didnât do that under trump, and Biden was supposed to be better than trump re: relationships with other countries)
foggy fern
lol
faint radish
Idk, my take is, youâre Australia, and youâre being offered some diesel subs, or some fancy nuclear ones that need to be refueled like once every 25 years, youâd take the latter
foggy fern
Sounds like the diesel subs were having some problems too
faint radish
I heard France was behind on the order or smth?
foggy fern
I mean, it's a government defense contract, you expect it to be late and overbudget, but it seems like even for that they were doing badly
They didn't even break a contract apparently, it sounds like it was set up as a series of separate contracts rather than a big one with milestones
faint radish
You know, with China getting bigger and bigger, I totally want Australia to have better defensive capability.
foggy fern
Was supposed to be 90% constructed using Australian labor, company said Australian labor was too shitty for that and they were just going to do it at home đ
faint radish
Thereâs like 10x as many press at this âJustice for Jan 6â protest
foggy fern
Yeah the people it was meant for decided it was a sting operation
Dunno if that's just some random delusion they came up with or if the organizers realized there weren't going to be many people so spread that as an excuse
brisk cradle
that didn't take too long https://www.nprillinois.org/statehouse/2021-09-14/democrat-sponsored-texas-act-would-allow-10k-bounties-on-sexual-abusers-those-who-cause-unwanted-pregnancies
faint radish
Arenât âbountyâ laws not really new? I thought in the past, they were mostly used by democrat legislatures to hold larger corporations accountable to whatever law
The whole âprivate citizens sue to enforce laws even if they arenât harmed personallyâ
I think the difference here, is that itâs private citizens instead of the government, not along side the government
shut vine
Last I knew, the law quite literally states that you cannot measure without usin...
Basically as I understood it, they can display both, but metric must be displayed, and imperial must not be more prominent than the metric. You must not display something in imperial and not display metric as well in a commercial shop, even if you convert it upon request. You must also measure all goods in metric, and if you want to display imperial you have to convert it. Measuring in imperial and converting is illegal.
foggy fern
Twitter
brisk cradle
Also, the only blue lives that matter to me are the people working for the Postal Service. My family has a history of it.
blazing junco
blue lives matter
raids capitol and kills cops
wtf
woven reef
Perfect lojik
glossy sandal
Blue lives matter was never about the cops
blazing junco
Blue lives matter was never about the cops
it wasn't but it's funny that they were at the capitol with "blue lives matter" while simultaneously attacking cops
i just imagine one of them looking at their shirt and then looking at people attacking the cops like "...wait.."
brisk cradle
Happy Canadian election day!
foggy fern
People keep sharing this on Twitter, all red isn't great but the drops don't seem that bad, not sure why they're freaking out about it
torn wadi
Probably because crypto also dropped quite a lot.
faint radish
the stock market goes up, and it goes down, but mostly, it goes up
The first person has been sued under Texasâ abortion law
But I think a kinda related case is gonna get decided by the Supreme Court first, the Mississippi one
foggy fern
Isn't the Mississippi law just a stricter version of the Texas one that was struck down in 2016?
Which was struck down for being too strict... (more or less)
faint radish
idk, all I know is there is one, I haven't read about it
I dont think they'd take up one unless it was different enough from one just 4/5 years ago
are the scotus votes to hear a case public? like ik 6 are required to vote to hear a case
foggy fern
Oh hey Trudeau is probably (definitely?) going to stay in power in Canada
His party is at least
So far looking like they gained one seat over 2019 even
near glen
Lmfao
Covidiot bolsonaro wasn't allowed to enter restaurants in NY, so he has to eat side walk pizza
Cause he's not vaccinated
cinder fog
People keep sharing this on Twitter, all red isn't great but the drops don't see...
yesterday I bought 1 microsoft stock at the very peak of the drawdown (for $290) and today I have already received almost 2% of the profit from this
đ
daring locust
rip my amd stocks tho :(
oblique flint
i buy 12 amazon stock yestrday at cheap price. now today their price change. why?
torn wadi
i buy 12 amazon stock yestrday at cheap price. now today their price change. why...
No idea bro.
brisk cradle
Yep. Trudeau hoped to get a majority government and instead he got a Parliament much like the one he had.
$600 million and his party only gains one seat.
urban vector
did he call the election then?
urban vector
well, at least he's got theresa may to thank for that not going down as the worst snap election in history
faint radish
Hehe, TIL Amazon has reduced the overall carbon output of humanity by reducing individual trips to the store. They have a big output themselves, but itâs much smaller than if people drove themselves to get items they now just order on Amazon
foggy fern
That makes sense, one UPS route around the city to several homes instead of a bunch of individual trips
slate haven
justin trudeau dont have blackface photo leaked challenge (impossible)
faint radish
That makes sense, one UPS route around the city to several homes instead of a bu...
yeah, I saw it in response to this vox article https://www.vox.com/recode/2021/9/21/22686233/jeff-bezos-conservation-climate-amazon
it notes that while global carbon emissions fell 7% in 2020 (covid), amazons own emissions rose 19%
which also makes total sense
but if you follow the math, it turns out bezos (through amazon delivery) has reduced the global carbon emissions by the same about that the whole country of Nicaragua outputs
https://hwfo.substack.com/p/bezos-is-the-greenest-man-alive
narrow ore
i mean that article uses a pretty contrived example. If you need something quick, you will still go to the store to get it, burning gas
if you don't need something quick, then you will probably batch it together with other errands / all the other stuff you pickup at the store
the article also doesn't tackle how the packages get to the amzn distribution centers in the first place - sometimes it's by truck, other times it's by air. it's pretty efficient but adds a little to emissions (of course regular stores have supply chains too, which might be more or less efficient idk)
probably the worst environmental impact is the packaging though. not only does it fill landfills, but producing that packaging probably emitted a bit extra CO2
not to mention AWS but eh i like the internet i guess
faint radish
people who live in the 2-4hr delivery radius of amazon distribution centers can pretty much get by with ordering everything from them.
and amzn's supply chain to the distribution center is probably more efficient than your local whatever store, because generally stuff done "bigger" is more efficient
and everyone makes packaging
thats not exclusive to amazon
near glen
My local chains deliver via EVs so Amazon can suck it, lol
torn wadi
(Can I come?)
Yes.
foggy fern
plush crypt
?warn @shy gulch Politics is for politics.
feral hearthBOT
:raised_hands: Warned đąđđđŁđ#7274 (Politics is for politics.) [1 total infraction] -- Proximyst#6900.
near glen
(Can I come?)
We just shame companies into using EVs đ
DHL where the first, they have these cute small scooters
Many companies also started to deliver using bikes
Like these
foggy fern
I can't imagine someone delivering with one of those bikes around here
slim estuary
i need a blooooo borris passport
near glen
Well, it's obviously designed for cities
foggy fern
Lots of hills and it's always either 35 C or -18 C
near glen
No hills and stuff here, so yeah
foggy fern
Well, except for the like 4 weeks of the year where we have decent weather
near glen
Many of the tricycles also have motors
foggy fern
But this fall those aren't even happening, it's 35 C in the day so you want the AC running and 5 C at night so you don't want to open up the house overnight either
slim estuary
near glen
Uuhi, related, my city just announced closing down one lane of a busy road downtown (of two), for bikes
3km thru down town
Who knew electing a green, progressive city gov would change stuff for the better đ
foggy fern
We have a bike trail going from just off downtown out to one edge of the city and then the main road on that edge of the city just went from 3 lanes (dedicated left turn lane) to 2 lanes and bike lanes on either side
Technically the bike trail goes to the other side of the city too but afaik it just ends at a park out there
near glen
That road had a "bike lane" before, part of the side walk was painted red
So basically half a lane for bikes, half a lane for pedestrians and 2 lanes for cars, that imbalance will be fixed by having one car lane, one bike lane and one for pedestrians
(that road has two subway lines on top of all that)
Actually at the east end it's not underground
foggy fern
Is it just a one way road then or do you swerve into pedestrians to let cars pass the other way? đ
near glen
It's two cars lanes per direction right now
So a 4 lane road I guess, these terms work differently in German I guess
faint radish
Somehow, this was just recommended to me on YouTube. https://youtu.be/cre0in5n-1E
Uploaded by the actual Conservative party, which just adds to its amazingness
brisk cradle
China sneezes and we all get corona https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/09/why-trouble-at-chinas-evergrande-tanked-the-stock-market.html
(This isn't politics-related, but more economic shit.)
faint radish
ah, love the government legislating what technology companies have to use
urban vector
unironically, same
urban vector
which is brilliant, even without the increased accessibility for consumers
laptops next please!
faint radish
why doesn't the EU say they've all got to use a common operating system? increased accessibility for consumers
dark crystal
does linux contribute to a higher amount of e-waste?
faint radish
yes, Logics post is completely unrelated to the point, thanks for pointing that out
urban vector
goal: reduce e-waste
solution: adopt standard chargers
where does standardised operating systems play into this?
dark crystal
yours is completely unrelated to the point, machine maker, but go off i guess
faint radish
I didnt say anything bout e-waste
faint radish
I specifically mentioned your thing about increased accessibility
you brought up increased accessibility?
faint radish
the EU also talked about increased accesibility
so idk why what I said was "completely unrelated"
its right there at the end of the 2nd paragraph
urban vector
if a project has multiple goals, bringing up something that accounts for only some of the goals as a slippery slope makes no sense. banning all laptops for ever also contributes to a reduction in ewaste but would be dumb to bring up right now
faint radish
yes it would be dumb, which is why I didnt bring up banning all laptops.
I brought up common operating systems. Most common consumer-facing operating systems, just like most chargers, all have a common purpose and go about achieving that thing in varying ways, but all pretty darn similar.
urban vector
do operating systems contribute to ewaste
faint radish
I am not talking about ewaste at all.
BUT
sure, companies have to test software on multiple systems which result in more test machines
mystic ermine
I mean, it's stupid
Now everybody is gonna end up getting plastic adaptors or tossing out all of their lightning shit
dark crystal
that's a short term effect at the very most
mystic ermine
But, it's an effect
dark crystal
long term it's beneficial
mystic ermine
How so?
urban vector
buy a new phone, no matter what it is you can use all of old accessories
which also leads to increased competition as your accessories won't sway purchases anymore
mystic ermine
How often do you switch between apple and Android devices?
urban vector
a lot more than i do at the moment if i didn't have to buy new accessories
mystic ermine
You can get wireless dirty buds for the price of a coffee
mystic ermine
How long do your wired headphones last?
urban vector
ive had my pair for three years
faint radish
patiently waits for an actual response to the operating systems question
urban vector
what do you want me to say? i can't really argue against a policy that doesn't exist
mystic ermine
I mean, os requirements would be dumb
faint radish
why?
mystic ermine
Apple does have one thing right, it stifles innovation
urban vector
cba to waste time talking about it
faint radish
I asked why they don't do it?
urban vector
idk ask them?
mystic ermine
Dash charging, for ex
urban vector
yeh bc i think it's dumb - operating systems don't tend to lock you into certain products the same way physical hardware does
they also don't contribute to ewaste anywhere near as much as hardware does
so it would be dumb
mystic ermine
I mean, they defo contribute
urban vector
anywhere near as much
mystic ermine
I see average peeps with older iPhones then I do androids
faint radish
we're in a climate crisis, any bit counts, and the benefit to consumer accessibility, tied with the common chargers would be big
urban vector
cool, glad to see you support it then
i personally think there's better things they could spend time on but hey ho
faint radish
so now you are ambivalent to it?
mystic ermine
I mean, I just don't think that it's really solving a huge issue and I agree with apple on saying that it stifles innovation
dark crystal
i personally think there's better things they could spend time on but hey ho
they can work on multiple things at a time đ
mystic ermine
How long will companies be able to still sell the old chargers? Etc
faint radish
yeah, I hadn't even addressed the innovation part of it, what if a company wants do do something cool that the common cable doesnt support, they have to lobby a massive slow-moving bureaucracy to change it? and then, other companies who didnt want this "new" company to have an advantage with their patented tech would lobby to prevent the change
mystic ermine
Yes, because big beurocratical agencies are known for their efficiency and full though ideas
Lol
urban vector
my thinking it is dumb is based on how little impact i think it would make based on how much effort it would cause consumers
mystic ermine
How will shit like qc and dash play into this?
Like, that's one of my things
I loooove dash
near glen
I just learned about the most peak capitalism thing ever: most trucks on European roads carry most of their goods around, even tho they aren't needed at their destiny. It's cheaper to have them in a truck than in a logistic center/warehouse. Land prices are too expensive for that in western Europe, so logistic companies brought warehouses in the east and circulate most of their goods in the trucks on the road to get them to clients quickly when needed.
This one guy here that I just read a comment from, estimated that 70% of the trucks of his company wouldnt need to be driven around, if the rest was only filled with goods that are actually needed at the destination. Just let that sink in. 70% unnessasarily used up oil, produced co2, ruined roads, traffic jam, whatever, just to save a bit of money.
(German blog where the comment was posted, obviously no names, but I trust the owner of the blog to verify stuff like this, he's a trusted hacker: https://blog.fefe.de/?ts=9fb5b288)
I'll do some research on that tomorrow, that sounds hella fucked, but I worked for a logistics company as a student in the IT, so that was 8 years ago, and they were toying with similar stuff. Reduced the amount of warehouses and increased their fleet. They had the advantage that they have a limited set of goods (paper products)
foggy fern
yeah, I hadn't even addressed the innovation part of it, what if a company wants...
What could a phone do that a USB-C plug and cable couldn't do?
It can to 100W power, 40 Gbit (so far) data transfer, carry DP signals, etc
I can see not standardizing it for laptops since some 15" and larger ones need more than 100W to run and charge at the same time
But if a phone ever gets 100W it'll probably catch fire đ
faint radish
I don't know, and cannot predict that. and neither can any government
That's the "innovation" part. I don't know what a company might want their cable/port to be able to do. But if the government restricts that, it just makes it harder for the company to implement it, OR reduces the drive to innovate to even conceive of a better idea
Apple is probably on their way to removing the charging port entirely. Maybe 1 or 2 more iterations, and I think it'll be gone
foggy fern
Eh, I bet Apple was going to do USB-C next year anyway
They've been moving over to it, all their laptops and at least some of the iPads have switched
faint radish
well, I think that could be evidence they are going to get rid of it, they switched almost everything else, and didnt switch phones this year when they had the chance
why switch if you are planning to remove it anyways?
but thats not really on the point, the point is, if the government sets a standard for this, and things have to meet that standard, it just stifles innovation. I don't know what that might be, and I certainly don't think the government knows
if someone has a better idea an hour after the standard is set, then what?
there are absolutely situations where you need standards, especially where safety is involved. but this isn't one of those
foggy fern
btw wireless charging is really inefficient and you shouldn't use it đ
loud flax
are you guys for equality of outcome versus equality of opportunity?
urban vector
it's kinda dumb to think you can't have the former without the latter
and also dumb to think so black and white, you can have lots of the latter and still barely put a dent in the former
foggy fern
are you guys for equality of outcome versus equality of opportunity?
I swear you spent like a day asking this question before
I would argue if you have actual equality of opportunity and in this hypothetical magic world have two people willing to put in the same amount of effort it'd be pretty rare to not have equality of outcome
I'm not against the idea of some people having more so long as the least of us are taken care of and 'more' doesn't mean more money than you could possibly spend in a hundred lifetimes
So... closer outcomes, not necessarily equal
deep ravine
But people who work harder/more skilled jobs should be rewarded
There is nothing wrong with equality of outcome, it just matters how we get there. Through equality of opportunity, seems to be the most beneficial (without putting much thought into it)
foggy fern
The problem is getting real equality of opportunity and not 'everyone had the opportunity to buy this $1,000,000 house' kind of stuff đ
I forget the actual amusing example for that but it was similar to that
dark crystal
equality of outcome basically means "you get this, regardless of what you do", right?
if so then I believe it should exist for things considered basic human needs
foggy fern
Eh, I suppose you could interpret equality of outcome that way
I viewed it more as "if you put in X work you get Y result"
dark crystal
hmm
yeah
my line of thought in this was that basic human needs shouldn't be denied under any circumstances
therefore, everyone has them (equality of outcome)
while equality of opportunity is more like "you work but if you don't you won't receive anything"
which would, in my opinion, be for things that could be considered luxuries in the slightest
basically the two concepts wouldn't (or shouldn't) be mutually exclusive
foggy fern
That sounds like you're essentially saying add UBI to our existing system
dark crystal
personally I'd say I'm a supporter of UBI, so yeah đ
near glen
UBI kinda requires to axe many parts of the existing systems tho
So one doesn't just add UBI, you refactor all your systems into one UBI system
dusky raft
and welfare is all over the place
its not one system
and the issue is that politicians dont want to replace the current system if it means axing their program
Nevermind I dont think UBI is useful to fix income issues, as giving it to everyone non conditionally just raises prices up
loud flax
equality of outcome, the way i understand it, would require some component of force, where equality of opportunity would not, but with the latter, you aren't really going to get equality because not everyone will work the same and achieve the same
dusky raft
pretty much, it needs force to make sure all outcome is equal, its why communist regimes starved tons of people to death
loud flax
UBI sounds good on the surface, I just haven't thought it through enough to really know if it will bring more good than bad
dusky raft
I am not against funding basic welfare, but I think we need to pull back on the government spending so much things and give tax relief to many people.
loud flax
is that where everyone receives money, even if they haven't worked for it?
welfare pretty much, but more like compulsory welfare, don't need to sign up for it
dusky raft
We need to stop government from funding pet projects and let the states do their thing. If california wants socialized healthcare, there isnt anything that should stop them.
near glen
I always hear the point of UBI raising prices, but I never understood that. If one supermarket chains would raise prices, people just go to the next one, that's what competition is for
dusky raft
that wouldnt be an issue of supermarkets, but supply chains also
near glen
UBI only really affects the basic needs tho
People that would rely on UBI to feed themselves, to buy clothes, etc.
If you earn more than that, you will not notice UBI and it will prolly be just taxed away
dusky raft
but it also means more people buying more things. So as an example, if a meat product got more demand, prices do rise,
and other items would rise to if other products rely on that
near glen
Bad example because meat demand is dropping (as it should if we wanna live sustainable), but it's not really buying more, these people already ate somehow. It's removing all the anxiety people.have to fulfill their basic needs and free up their mind for actual useful stuff.
It also enables them to eat healthy for example, removing burden from healthcare systems
faint radish
Did yâall see? The Covid pandemic is ending. A bunch of celebrities signed a letter urging world leaders to end it.
near glen
One of the major injustices is that eating healthy and environmentally friendly is more expensive than unhealthy
faint radish
near glen
Did yâall see? The Covid pandemic is ending. A bunch of celebrities signed a let...
Who cares what celebrities say? Their job is to look pretty in movies, not be experts
faint radish
No no, celebrities are the best of humanity. Clearly. They finally used their power to end covid
near glen
Also, covid is over in some countries: they have vaccination rates of 90+%
dusky raft
people still love their meat products in the US. also healthy generally means longer wait time here. Would be more affordable if we changed our diet away from meats and dairy and more towards grains and vegtables
near glen
Nothing wrong with loving meat
dusky raft
oh no, nothing wrong with that, its the amount americans consume
near glen
You just gotta be thoughtful. Eating meat daily is dangerous. It's also not sustainable.
dusky raft
mainly due to a few factors including early agriculture and labor
plus marketing
tons of marketing
near glen
Remember, milk is good for your bones, you need it to be strong!
It's funny how a handful of companies changed our perception of these products
Like, the idea of a ecological footprint has been created by BP to shame people and forget that the actual change needs to be political to end burning of fossil fuels
dusky raft
oh, this is why I call a lot of companies on their bullshit to "buy" out of their footprint
apple is a great example
sure, they are "carbon neutral" in the US, but they arent in china
near glen
It's gotta be the most successful marketing campaign ever
Single handedly delayed our response to the climate catastrophe by decades
dusky raft
I mean, I'm not a we need to drop everything now and fix things. HOWEVER, I do think we need to look at other sources. I want to see more research in nuclear and geothermal
near glen
In the EU we have these fun CO2 certificates company buy to offset their carbon production, so it's actually helpful if more companies buy them, because then prices rise and it becomes financially unviable to run a coal plant because you have to pay so much for emissions
dusky raft
those seem to be ignored by the government and environmental community
near glen
That's an area where the market actually works
dusky raft
is it optional or required to pay?
near glen
The more lax our response is now, the more extreme it will have to be in a decade or two
For certain sectors it's required if you emit co2
Am not an expert on how all that works tho
Look, the EU got you covered with an explainer https://youtu.be/yfNgsKrPKsg
dusky raft
one of the big issues is what about developing nations? technically enforcing the reduction of fossil fuels may seem unfair considering developed nations just poured a shit ton of carbon into the air during the 20th century.
near glen
It covers 40% of the EUs emissions it seems
dusky raft
nevermind you have china and pretty sure if europe and the US were to tell them to adopt green energy, they would laugh and tell both to fuck right on off.
near glen
We need to help them skip that state entirely and directly go to technologically advanced technologies and ways to produce energy that doesn't emit carbon
3rd world can't build power plants without us
They dont have the money or technology
That's why china stopping to build carbon plants world wide is such a big deal
dusky raft
and the money we do give them goes right into the corrupt government politicians
its why a lot of states are still backwaters, even though the US pours millions in
near glen
Nah you can be more smart than that
Make deal that allows our companies to build clean energy plants down there
dusky raft
well sure, still hasnt fixed the corrupt government issue.
near glen
You bypass it
short trail
nevermind you have china and pretty sure if europe and the US were to tell them ...
what
dark crystal
https://www.reuters.com/technology/eu-plans-legislate-common-phone-charger-despi...
just to add a last thing on this topic: if innovation means no ports at all then I may become religious because God save us all
anyways less e-waste yay
faint radish
Well this $1billion to fund the iron dome was a whole lot less controversial than I thought.
Passed 420-9 in the house. Even AOC didnât vote no
foggy fern
It was threatened but I'm thinking Manchin or Sinema were asking for it and Pelosi knows how to wrangle her people
Republicans seem to have no interest in passing a debt ceiling increase though and have even said they'll filibuster it so I'm not really sure what we're going to do about that
I haven't even seen a demand from them, just a "go fuck yourselves"
faint radish
I thought the debt ceiling increase was one of those, it has to happen
like if it doesnt happen, boom, great depression tmrw
not like a gov shutdown which can last for a while and not cause a huge economic downturn
foggy fern
Yeah, debt ceiling is economic collapse kind of stuff
Like, credit markets crash and the government stops making Social Security payments in October
Or only making partial payments
faint radish
so yeah, idk what they are doing there
foggy fern
They always fight over it when they aren't in power
faint radish
well yeah, but it always passes
foggy fern
I can't remember if they actually failed to pass it on time once or just got really close but iirc just that got our bond rating downgraded
And that was before any payments were actually missed
Oh yeah we actually went off the cliff in 2013 but the downgrade happened when we almost did in 2011
We were days away from the Treasury failing to make payments and months after when they needed the increase to happen to avoid having to jump through hoops to make payments
Like, literally days, they said payments would stop being made in full on Feb 15 and the limit was temporarily suspended Feb 4
We never really handled it again after that until 2017 when Republicans were finally willing to raise the ceiling again and every single Democrat voted to do so
Even though Republicans controlled both houses and the presidency
Oh wow no I'm wrong, they didn't raise it then either, they just suspended it some more
So technically we have a ceiling way below our current debt so if the suspension ever expires (and they all have expiration dates) we're immediately fucked
foggy fern
We're so fucked, aren't we?
foggy fern
I don't know why they try to do this kind of shit, it doesn't look good no matter who you are
It's even worse here though since #TheRightCantMeme
brisk cradle
that's because she is both a boomer and a rightist, and the right can't meme
and boomers are predisposed towards shitty memes anyway
foggy fern
The alt-right can, sometimes, but this is facebook-tier (she probably got it from facebook)
foggy fern
But yeah, I always feel super awkward for them when I'm watching C-SPAN or something and they try to make jokes with their posters
Like, that never lands, I've never seen it work
brisk cradle
We woke up to Toilet Paper USA embracing anti-imperialism all the sudden https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRightCantMeme/comments/pu793w/toilet_paper_usa_embraces_antiimperialism_what/
Of course, this is the right bitching about a move their favorite manchild Donald Trump started, and then Biden decided to finish the job
foggy fern
(and did a pretty shit job of it)
I don't know if/how he could have done it better considering what he started with but it sure didn't turn out well
brisk cradle
Another one https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRightCantMeme/comments/ptmsds/qanon_karen_brings_memes_to_congress/
tough cedar
eugh she brought two memes to congress?
foggy fern
We had a Trump imposed deadline to get out (negotiated with the Taliban) and before he left office Trump had us down to so few troops in the country they couldn't defend the base anymore, it just hadn't been attacked because of that deal with the Taliban
So we either needed to send in more troops, figure out how to get people out faster, or blow past the deadline and have to send in more troops anyway when the Taliban got mad and started attacking again
tough cedar
i'd be lying if i didn't find it funny though
foggy fern
We kind of did all of those đ
We just tried to pretend we didn't need to until the very end
foggy fern
faint radish
yeah, I saw that...
brisk cradle
So, the Arizona election "audit" confirms what we already knew. Joe Biden did win Maricopa County, Arizona.
...hold on a second?
near glen
Mr. I will not get the vaccine so I can't get into any restaurant in NY for the UN meeting and have to eat takeaway pizza on the sidewalk đ
brisk cradle
To be fair, I'm pretty sure Texas would have elected Bolsonaro if he were a Texan. He knows how to give the red meat, figuratively speaking.
restive seal
This is good for Bitcoin
near glen
Because it further removes the big chinese mining pools?
brisk cradle
Well, Bitcoin was a very popular way of evading currency controls in China. You buy coal-fired electricity, Bitcoin miners, and a building to put the machines in yuan, use the miners and electricity to mine bitcoin, then sell the bitcoin for USD.
For obvious reasons, China doesn't like this, and not the least because they're experimenting with their own digital bank cryptocurrency (which, as far as I know, hasn't really gotten anywhere despite numerous "tests")
brisk cradle
Germanyâs election is on Sunday and itâs been a turbulent one. But shockingly itâs the SPD in the lead. https://mobile.twitter.com/kniggem/status/1441134503083139078?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1441134503083139078|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2F
near glen
for comparison: last election results
black: conservatives, red: labor I guess?, pink: the left, green: greens, yellow: neo-liberals, blue: nazis
forming a coalition will be fun, my hope is on left + labor + greens
but thats not realistic
whats counts is getting rid of the CDU
foggy fern
Probably going to be SPD and CDU/CSU again just with the roles reversed
Based on that polling
faint radish
Looks the women are going to have to register with the Selective Service shortly here. Both the house and senate passed versions of this defense approps bill that include that
foggy fern
I figured they'd get rid of it before adding women to it but neat
near glen
Probably going to be SPD and CDU/CSU again just with the roles reversed
That would be the worst possible outcome for the country, and I honestly don't think the SPD is dum enough to do that again
Their own people would tear the leaders apart
foggy fern
Won't have a choice if the alternative is CDU + neolibs or similar
Just have to see how the votes come out
near glen
Greens spd neolibs has been discussed
Its gonna be a fun next week to see how everything plays out
foggy fern
I figured they'd rather have CDU than neolibs
near glen
I voted weeks ago for the left, altho I don't agree with their stances at all, but I think like that was the only way to make sure my vote doesn't give the CDU any power
foggy fern
The UK tried labor + neolibs, it didn't work so well
It's not working so well for the US either (Democrats) đ
near glen
The neolibs here are mostly led by some egomaniac
They got weird principles but I don't think they hold if they could get power in return
Then again, there was the opportunity for red Green yellow last time too and the neo liberals pulled out "it's better to not govern, than to govern bad" or something they said
That translation is horrible
Idk what verb would be the best translation, but you get the idea
woven reef
"Imeach Biden"
faint radish
now that its happened twice with one president, its gonna get called for, and probably happen, a whole lot more
and that will make it more meaningless
faint radish
lol, I didnt see that, or see that is what you wrote in quotes
cause brain just fills that in
woven reef
lol
faint radish
first time I saw that, it took me a solid couple seconds of pouring over the words till I understood what was happening
faint radish
there are crazy people who will always do crazy things
the whole ivermectin thing was totally blown out of proportion so now idrc
ivermectin won the nobel prize as an antiviral in HUMANS
and then you've got morning joe on MSNBC saying joe rogan is eating cow dewormer and attributes that to his recovery?
yeah, its also used in animals.
rogan's ivermectin was perscibed to him by an actual doctor
but I bet like 40% of people who heard the ivermectin craziness think that its only for animals and has no use in humans
woven reef
It's fine as long as its prescribed. My geometry teachers uncle got completely screwed up when he took too much because he had seen that it had helped prevent COVID from "some news station"
had to have 3 surgeries and 2 weeks in a coma.
faint radish
the people taking way too much, idc about them, Darwin can handle them. The media didnt report it like that at all
woven reef
yea
foggy fern
There is no evidence it helps so doctors usually won't give it to you so people are getting the animal version
Then taking so much they go blind and shit out bits of their intestines
faint radish
You were saying? https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/fulltext/2021/08000/ivermectin_for_prevention_and_treatment_of.7.aspx
faint radish
How do you know itâs junk data in?
foggy fern
In one recent meta-analysis in the American Journal of Therapeutics that found ivermectin greatly reduced COVID-19 deaths4, the Elgazzar paper accounted for 15.5% of the effect.
iirc the in-vitro testing of ivermectin showed it needed a dosage 100 times higher than what is safe for humans to have any effect on covid, trying to find something about that
Oh, only 35 times higher it seems
Trying to find a better source though, not sure about this one
deep ravine
the people taking way too much, idc about them, Darwin can handle them. The medi...
How true... Why are liberals pushing to vaccinate hardcore fox news watchers? Natural selection will help the liberals, in this case.
tough cedar
what do you think the reason is for liberals pushing to vaccinate hardcore fox news watchers?
brisk cradle
Here's the thing, though. Anti-vaxxers jumped on junk science to promote ivermectin. Once you exclude the poorly-designed studies, it becomes obvious ivermectin did nothing to help with treating COVID-19.
foggy fern
Nothing notable enough to beat the null hypothesis anyway
Need longer and more controlled studies to reduce the error bars to say for sure one way or the other
deep ravine
Iâve been looking for data on how vaccines affect the spread of covid. We know itâs not 100%, but cdc says itâs at least not 0%. Is there a more accurate figure than 1-99%đ
brisk cradle
Iâve been looking for data on how vaccines affect the spread of covid. We know i...
The Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines are 90+% effective. In fact, all the ones approved in the US are effective.
deep ravine
Is that in spread, or just fighting off covid?
brisk cradle
Itâs still an open question of how long the protection that the vaccine offers will last.
deep ravine
Iâm concerned with the chances of a vaccinated individual giving another vaccinated individual covid
brisk cradle
Is that in spread, or just fighting off covid?
Thatâs essentially 90% of the time, if you get COVID, your body will be able to easily fend it off and you wonât get sick. Vaccinated people can still get the virus, but they can fend it off a lot easier. Instead of a 2-week hospital stay, maybe you just have a day or two where you donât feel good and then it clears.
deep ravine
I donât care about the protection in fighting it off
brisk cradle
I think my explanation was butchering things
brisk cradle
Iâm concerned with the chances of a vaccinated individual giving another vaccina...
Possible, but unlikely: even if youâre vaccinated youâd still do well to continue to wear a mask
deep ravine
The data on the effectiveness of vaccines is clear, but what about preventing transmission? I mean, does it prevent 5% of the spread?
brisk cradle
Vaccinated people donât spread the virus very well because, well, they can fight it off easily
deep ravine
That makes sense to me, but I am not biologically adept. Is there data on that?
brisk cradle
Here is a nice explainer in plain English
Basically, get vaccinated and continue to wear a mask and youâll be fine
deep ravine
Iâm not worried.
I want specifics on this
âWhile it is possible, Dr. Cardona says that the ability to transmit COVID-19 may occur at a lower rate
brisk cradle
I want specifics on this
âWhile it is possible, Dr. Cardona says that the abili...
Vaccinated people have a lower viral load when they do get the virus. They can still transmit COVID-19, just at a lower rate. But thatâs why vaccinations are necessary but not sufficient protection against the virus.
Eventually the goal is to reach herd immunity and the masks can come off
But weâre not even close to that, largely for political reasons
deep ravine
You donât understand, I want the cdc to gather precise data on how vaccines effect transmission. Like, if masks reduce chances by, say, 30%, maybe vaccines reduce chances by 10%. I donât know, but I want to know.
foggy fern
If you have a breakthrough infection (vaccine fails to prevent illness) you're still not going to be spreading it as long because your body fights it off faster
A couple days instead of two weeks
But you're just as capable of spreading it for that time period
At least with Delta
deep ravine
Canât you be a carrier (when vaccinated), but arenât Iâll?
Carrier and spread the virus, I mean.
foggy fern
Not enough data to say anything either way on asymptomatic spread for vaccinated people with Delta
deep ravine
We should get that, because otherwise âherd immunityâ wonât work.
foggy fern
Sure it will
deep ravine
Or, it will be very difficult, and may require new vaccines
foggy fern
Herd immunity is about layers of protection
deep ravine
If you have the same chance of spreading the virus when vaccinated, I donât see how herd immunity works.
foggy fern
The asymptomatic spread must not be that likely otherwise we'd have enough data to say something about it
Against the original strain the vaccines were >90% effective at blocking asymptomatic spreading. Even if that has fallen to the same level as breakthrough infections (60-70%) against Delta that's high enough to either stop the virus entirely or turn it into a mild flu assuming everyone was vaccinated
You'd be spreading it for smaller time periods so the chances for infecting others would be lessened
deep ravine
Smaller amount of time is great, but that on itâs will require more people to get the vaccine for herd immunity
That 90% sounds great, but most cases are delta now, right? So that complicates it?
foggy fern
For the original 2 weeks of spreading and 95% effectiveness we needed something like 70-80% of people to get vaccinated for the virus to eventually die out
The vaccines are less effective but the lower time to spread the virus for vaccinated people should balance that out somewhat
I don't know how much though, I don't think I've seen anyone try to calculate the Rt for vaccinated->vaccinated transmission
If the Rt is < 1 then having everyone be vaccinated would still be enough to kill off the virus on its own
If it's > 1 or not everyone gets vaccinated then you have to try to calculate the Rt for the mix of vaccinated and not and calculate what effects masks and social distancing have to see if we're still able to get it below 1
deep ravine
Thatâs what I want to see done
foggy fern
That's the kind of thing that takes months to do
deep ravine
To prove that vaccines will work
foggy fern
Ask again in December, if we don't have any preliminary numbers by then I'd be surprised
Well, they definitely work
Even if they don't stop the spread if they reduce the disease to the level of the flu that's a huge win
foggy fern
I mean, the flu kills a lot of people every year but it doesn't overload hospitals
Better would be to get rid of it entirely but getting it down to flu levels would mean we could go back to normal
deep ravine
I wonder if we will see new vaccine types that are more effective, that would be nice. (If you cant tell, I havenât kept up with that at all)
Within the next few years, I mean.
foggy fern
Updated vaccines against Delta are going through trials already
Novavax is also working on a new combined flu and covid vaccine that is supposed to be more effective against Delta, they're the folks who usually make the yearly flu shot in the US
It's not an mRNA or adenovirus style, instead of letting your body produce the gimped virus like those do it just injects you with a bunch of the spike proteins directly along with a marker to make your immune system attack them right away
It's also shelf stable and such so it's going to go to places that can't get access to the mRNA ones first though
Oh, nevermind, not shelf stable, still needs a fridge
But just a normal one, nothing fancy
They've been having quality control issues though so scaling up production is taking time, they hope to get WHO approval and FDA approval soon and produce 2 billion doses next year though so they think they know how to fix it
faint radish
What is happening in Australia? I keep seeing videos on Twitter that seem to show some brutal Covid lockdown enforcement. Now Iâm reading https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/619940/
Canât be going around saying
Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews replied: âit is not about human rights. It is about human life.â
I remember early on, 6 infants died because the state they were in didnât have the medical facilities they needed and Covid restrictions prevented them from being moved
urban vector
that was nothing to do with covid restrictions, that hospital chose not to move the infants and then they died
faint radish
Children who would normally have emergency transfers to Melbourne's Royal Children's Hospital for the treatment are currently unable to because of coronavirus restrictions on re-entering South Australia from Victoria.
You can also blame the area for not having the equipment, but at that moment, they couldnât do what they did before for the same situation
urban vector
the state's health authorities literally did not prevent the children from being moved https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/victorias-covid-lockdown-did-not-contribute-to-four-sa-baby-deaths-andrews-c-1428828
mystic ermine
The restrictions on aussy are apparently crazy from what I've heard
urban vector
yeah, it's clear that their priority is saving lives
mystic ermine
They're basically doing covid 0 but ain't doing a super great job of preventing it from starting back up again when people come in, etc
faint radish
I donât know if itâs correct to say that COVID restrictions were the cause of them not travelling here,â he sai
He said he doesnât know
urban vector
that... is not how reading works lmao
throughout the whole article he makes it clear multiple times that the restrictions did not prevent the transport
faint radish
What? âI donât know if itâs correct to say that the restrictions were the causeâ
urban vector
whether or not the hospital took the restrictions into account when deciding not to transport is another story, but it wasn't the restrictions themselves
which is why he is saying he doesn't know
he doesn't know if the restrictions impacted it, but he does know that they didn't prevent the transport
faint radish
So weve got a politician whoâd look bad if it was the restrictions, and the âWomenâs and Childrenâs Allianceâ who says it was the restrictions
urban vector
well, imma listen to the doctors tbh
mystic ermine
I mean, it's not like any country I'm aware of really did s great job of passing out info on the restrictions and their enforcement
faint radish
You canât leave Australia without an exemption. I get not letting people in, but not leaving?
mystic ermine
I wouldn't be surprised if the restrictions didn't prevent that, but the way info was discriminated did
I can't spell big words today
Disseminated*
foggy fern
near glen
That's something Germany always embraced, we heavily depend on immigrants to fill our jobs
Even back in the 50s, the whole uprising of Germans economy was on the back of immigrants from turkey at our car assembly lines
Care in particular is done by polish people, highly educated too
foggy fern
On the other hand maybe they'll actually pay more for these jobs now
near glen
Haahahaahahahahaahahha
foggy fern
If they can't get the racists to allow more immigrants they'll have to eventually
near glen
Altho pandemic caused a pay increase for care and heath care professionals here
foggy fern
I don't think the UK has a large enough prison population to do all those jobs
mystic ermine
Over here places which rely on drivers are apparently paying more down
Downfall of people willing to come in willing to work for cheap is that everybody gets paid fuck all
foggy fern
That's complicated too though because there are jobs (at least in America) that people seem to be unwilling to do for any wage so there isn't really competition there
Picking lettuce and shit
near glen
The solution to not enough truck drivers is investing into rail tbh
Cause most trucks just shouldn't exist in the first place
foggy fern
I thought the UK was pretty good on rail
Need trucks for the chunnel and in town delivery
mystic ermine
I think our rail infra was kinda weird
near glen
The tunnel has a rail line?
Trucks for "last mile" is fine
But the amount of trucks I see around here with polish number plates and stuff
foggy fern
And you guys actually have high fuel costs and such which should discourage trucks
Doesn't seem to have helped I guess
mystic ermine
Defo hasn't
A lot of lorry drivers have been saying for years that there isn't really many newbies coming in when you consider all the costs and shit
foggy fern
Oh yeah that's true in the US too, no one wants to do such a boring low paid job that takes them away from home for so long
mystic ermine
A big issue is getting people jnto the trade in the first place these days
foggy fern
Long haul trucking is probably going to be replaced with robots in 10-20 years anyway though
near glen
Trucker is like one of the worst jobs I can think of
A friend of mine was doing weekend shifts at the gas stop and sometimes I would come by and chill for a bit, the truckers come to buy alc and then just get drunk
mystic ermine
Some people love the job, just, even they're at retirement age or thinking about leaving due to pay, etc
near glen
And you got the trailers with the hookers of course, drove by those today
mystic ermine
In the quest to drive down prices, it's easy to cut the cost of humans, especially when you can have the employment door constantly revolving
Brexit and the pandemic both put a jam in thst door
A while back there was a "pingdemic" from our track and trace app too
Think truckers where told that they where basically able to carry on as normal if pinged, and many other places where asking their staff to uninstall the thing
near glen
German election 2021: the head idiot of the conservatives is literally unable to properly fold his ballot
Like, wtf, this is a secret election, you aren't allowed to show what you voted for
Making photos of a signed ballot is illegal
near glen
You can tell
You cannot show ballot
Cause then you influence others, which should be avoided
Idk how other countries handle that, but that's how it works here and everybody knows it
Official stance of the organizers for this case was, dude voted for himself, that's not surpsing and not influencing Others, so it's prolly fine
faint radish
How is showing different than telling, in terms of influencing others?
And how is telling people to vote for me, less âinfluentialâ than showing who you voted for
near glen
Telling isn't fact
faint radish
But going around encouraging people to vote for you is influencing people. In fact, thatâs the entire point of elections, to have enough influence on someone that they decide to vote for you
urban vector
the point is, i can't go up to someone and say "vote this person or else and prove it" if you can't legally show your ballot
obviously that's probably illegal for other reasons but
near glen
Yeah I guess that too
dark crystal
same thing in Portugal, it's illegal to take a picture of a signed ballot
foggy fern
44 states in the US have something in their constitution that could be argued makes taking pictures of a signed ballot illegal
Although when New Hampshire tried to make a law specifically against taking ballot selfies it was ruled unconstitutional under the First Amendment so they probably aren't enforceable against people showing their own ballot
Looks like CDU is going to be in charge again
Going to be close though
near glen
No way they going to be in charge
Even if they have more votes, that doesn't mean they get in charge
foggy fern
You think social democrats won't form a coalition with them then?
foggy fern
If they don't work together I think either one would need every party except the nazis to join a coalition
foggy fern
the left looks like they're just barely going to get any seats
near glen
If they don't make it that would be really bad
foggy fern
They need 366 seats for a coalition, right?
near glen
Ye
foggy fern
50% + 1
near glen
But seats is a really complicated topic in Germany
Like SPD and CDU have the same percentage right now, yet the CDU (well, technically the CSU) gets more seats
foggy fern
Right because you vote for a person and a party
near glen
Ye
foggy fern
Looks like SPD + Green + FDP would work based on exit polls so I guess they don't need the left to get any seats
FDP feels like it would be the opposite of SPD though
near glen
And then if you got more direct mandates than you have general votes, you have overhang mandates, and to make stuff fair again, you have to give others some seats back too
It's such a mess
Opposite of Greens actually
foggy fern
Ah yeah, I suppose that makes more sense
Either way, a coalition with those three doesn't sound very healthy
near glen
Greens want restrictions, force people, FDP, neo liberals, say we need Innovation and the mystical market will solve everything automatically
foggy fern
FDP's platform is to get rid of the covid restrictions and lower taxes đ
near glen
CDU with power doesn't sound healthy
Also, worth noting that there is another exit poll with these results
Vs this
foggy fern
Yeah that second one is what I'm seeing
near glen
It's the "bigger" one iirc
But generally, ARD ("first Channel") uses infratest and ZDF ("second channel") uses Forschungsgruppe wahlen
Both are publicly funded
We got those two publicly funded channels
Lmao, google dark theme
foggy fern
Huh, with the exit polling if CDU and SPD aren't going to work together then I think whoever ends up in power has to have the greens
near glen
Yes
foggy fern
Which probably means SPD
near glen
Sadly I can see the greens working with the CDu
They do it in some states
So black green yellow is possible
Would be sad tho, cause the greens would compromise everything they stand for
near glen
Also, about the left: there's a chance to get into the parliment if you don't make the 5%: win 3 direct mandates, the left did that before, it's likely again this time
If they don't make the 5% they at least get those 3 seats
Or maybe more
Not that those 3 seats matter
foggy fern
I have no idea how good DW is but they suggest if the left doesn't cross the 5% threshold FDP is more likely to want to work with CDU
near glen
Especially if we get fucking 730 seats like how they think right now
Fucking hell
DW is publicly funded
It's decent
I use it all the time to share german topics for non German speakers
FDP wants to go with CDU, yes
They openly said that
random furnace
Also hello. I am slowly back
foggy fern
Sounds like SPD wouldn't want to work with the left anyway
Foreign policy disagreements
near glen
They have am issue on one or two topics yes
But the left signaled that they would compromise on that, they don't say anymore that they wanna leave nato
foggy fern
I suppose if they abandon those positions why not just vote SPD?
near glen
Which seems to be what happened
Amma cycle home and get drunk now
Altho: one good news, Berlin gets a green major, a woman
Won against the dum SPD gal, who got thrown out of the government because she cheated on her Dr thesis
But though she's good enough for berlin
foggy fern
jeez
green valve
head on head race
near glen
But in Berlin we only have exit polls, no real counts yet
Cause Berlin is special like always, they had people vote an hour late
Because the queues were so long
Lmao, the Nazis have 88 seats, HH, heil Hitler đ
(that's a common thing, Nazis often have licence plates with 88 for example)
foggy fern
Yeah, they like to invent new things like that all the time
Then make fun of the left and call them crazy when the left tries to point it out
đ
near glen
Fun fact, one of the leaders of the Nazis is lesbian. She lives in the swiss. Her partner openly lobbies for same sex marriage (Swiss passed a referendum about that today, yey!), While the Nazi leader openly lobbies against it đ
Imagine living a lesbian relationship but literally sabotaging your own life
foggy fern
Maybe she really doesn't want a kid and this was easier than talking to her spouse about it đ
foggy fern
They had civil unions there but the stuff they passed today allows marriage, adoption, using sperm donors, etc
green valve
Fun fact, one of the leaders of the Nazis is lesbian. She lives in the swiss. He...
alice?
green valve
why not cds/csu would be simpler than splitting them in the germany election
bad chart
foggy fern
They are different parties, at least at the local level, right?
green valve
csu is bavaria and cdu is rest of germany but normaly in germany election are they cdu/csu and not split xd
foggy fern
Yeah most charts I've seen just say CDU or say CDU/CSU
green valve
yeah thats good but splitting them in that cart isnt smart i think xd that "das erste" creates them is weird
near glen
It's important to note that CSU is not CDU
It's not das erst that creates the charts, it's infratest dimap
CSU is has no business being in Berlin, they barely make the 5%, it's important to remember that
And even in Bavaria they lost heavily
near glen
But today is a bad day: Christian Linder will be part of the government
Time to get wasted
foggy fern
red red green still looking a few seats short though
brisk cradle
Bitcoin is green! Thatâs why a shitcoin miner bought a coal plant, itâs definitely green! https://www.techspot.com/news/91430-bitcoin-mining-company-buys-pennsylvania-power-plant-meet.html
foggy fern
Some power company in Missouri is trying to get permission to use one of their coal plants to mine bitcoin
They say due to solar and wind having to adjust the output of the coal plant (which usually means dumping its energy into the ground for long periods since it can't adjust instantly) makes the plant less efficient than if they left it running at a set rate and used the excess to mine
Waste coal is the residual material left over following coal mining operations; it can be particularly harmful to the environment by leaching metals such as aluminum, iron, and manganese into the soil and surrounding water sources.
Instead lets put that into the air, brilliant đ
near glen
red red green still looking a few seats short though
Yeah sadly that doesn't seem to be happening
brisk cradle
yeah, it's either a traffic light coalition or Jamaica
brisk cradle
FDP sounds like pain and suffering
near glen
They stand for everything that is wrong with capitalism
You can't fix climate change using unknown innovative technologies and praying they the market solves everything
brisk cradle
then again, I'm American, so we have a conservative party with some rowdy social democrats and then we have the right-wing/fascist party
foggy fern
Carbon tax should encourage that innovation, right? đ
foggy fern
then again, I'm American, so we have a conservative party with some rowdy social...
Half of the House Democrats are in the Progressive Caucus
brisk cradle
yes, but the other half are neoliberals
near glen
Greens prefer going with SPD, neolibs prefer going with CDU
It's gonna be a few fun weeks
foggy fern
Progressives control the house since Republicans have no interest in working with any Democrats
It's just a question of how far they can push the rest of the Democrats before they lose votes
Of course without the Senate nothing gets done
brisk cradle
But even then, our progressives wind up being more conservative than usual
foggy fern
Well, sure, there are probably only a dozen or so similar to the SPD and they're the center-left party in Germany đ
brisk cradle
But fine, we'll say the Democrats are the centrist party with a substantial social-democratic component that complains a lot
foggy fern
Even on an international level calling at least half the House Democrats conversative doesn't make sense though, they're at least moderate
In US terms only a few of them are moderate
foggy fern
Huh, FDP's largest voting bloc is 18-24 year olds
The younger you are the more likely you are to vote FDP
I would have expected them to be popular with like 25-35 and maybe older (but they'd be more likely to go CDU)
near glen
6 seats missing for RRG
foggy fern
Yeah just saw the latest update
Left might lose out entirely though
Weird, voters from AfD going to SPD and Greens
That's a pretty big change, good for them
near glen
In the east
Not around here
East they actually win in all age groups
The "new states" aka what was the DDR before, are all kinda fucked structurally, so they think electing Nazis makes it better cause they bring the easy solutions
You don't have a job? Blame the immigrants!
4 missing!
I still believe!
Maybe they can convince the one SSW seat, lmao
Actually had to google wtf that is
Their are a danish minority in the northern state and as such don't need to pass the 5% hurdle
And they seem center
foggy fern
I can't imagine how the FDP will react if they build a patchwork like that to avoid them
near glen
Maybe it can be used to pressure the FDP into a better deal for the other two
foggy fern
DW really doesn't want to say anything about AfD đ
They talk about SPD, CDU, Green, and FDP then skip down to talking about how the left might not make it
near glen
We only talk about Democratic parties here ^^
foggy fern
RRG made it to 363 but needed 368