#politics
foggy fern
There are 4 days that were worse just in the past year so I suppose this isn't huge news
faint radish
there will always be bigger and bigger "point" drops as it just goes up more and more with time
but as usual, the media likes to use the phrases "biggest since", or "largest since" or whatever
the "biggest point drop since October"... which was 9 months ago? hardly noteworthy. If this was the biggest percent drop in some year amount, that might be more noteworthy
foggy fern
There were 4 worse percentage drops in the past year
700 down on the DJIA still sounds like a big number to people though so stories get made
They're used to a few years ago when DJIA was like $14,000
near glen
I would argue stocks are never note worthy since it's all gambling anyways
pure jetty
Stocks aren't gambling since you can make informed decisions based on what you observe from companies/markets
With Gambling the best thing you have is probability
faint radish
Well I think poker vs roulette have different amounts of probability tied into them, but one also has significant strategy as well. Both are gambling right?
I agree that stocks are important, and you can make informed decisions about what to buy/sell. But I don’t think gambling is 100% about probability
plush crypt
poker sure does; you won't go all out with one pair :p
near glen
Well, you could
If you established dominance on the board nobody will call your bluff
It's a strategy too
I have seen a poker night with some German YouTubers, one dude was going in all night and nobody knew what to do, every time somebody called his bluff and stayed in, the guy actually had a decent hand and won 😂
So ppl were scared as hell generally
warm ibex
daring locust
LETS GOOO
keen swift
👍
loud flax
just because my government has tensions with a foreign country doesn't mean I automatically do, lol
it's funny how the wording of these articles goes
foggy fern
TIL this wasn't ignorance or stupidity, he was intentionally calling everything he didn't like critical race theory
He wants the couple of universities that actually do anything with it to stop, I guess
near glen
I have never heard that term before
Interesting that stuff like that just isn't really a thing on this side of the pond
restive seal
I'm pretty sure there are racists trying to push their agenda through drumming up fear of bogeymen concepts over your side too.
foggy fern
Critical race theory is a graduate level legal study
Most people are never going to learn it
Recently some people have been trying to find ways to take what you learn from it and make that more accessible but that's not the same thing
That's like saying learning to use your iPhone is learning how amplitude modulation works because someone needed that to make the iPhone
Also I can't believe that guy was willing to not only admit to running a propaganda campaign but explain what he was doing, how, and why
shut vine
I have never heard that term before
Interesting since that's where it came from. 😛
restive seal
It came from mini?
shut vine
From Germany
He said "isn't really a thing this side of the pond", i.e. as if it's completely unknown there, which must indicate they don't teach a lot of history about the topic.
Though that being said it was slightly different there, it was just critical theory, before Bell got his hands on it.
The only significant difference between them is critical theory is about power structures, and critical race theory is about power structures that exist because of race.
Though you could also date it back to Italy due to many of the ideas of Mussolini and Gramsci were the key elements of critical theory, though it didn't really have it's definition until 1937 or 1938 when Horkheimer coined it.
near glen
Interesting
foggy fern
2 years later he was an American citizen living in LA since Nazis chased him out for being a Marxist
This is probably what got him in trouble:
Horkheimer sought to enable the working class to reclaim their power in order to resist the lure of fascism.
😄
shut vine
The ironic thing is they were basically enacting the key parts of critical theory.
Horkheimer was also a wealthy Jew which I doubt helped his popularity with the Nazi party.
loud flax
that will probably get anyone in trouble for trying to change the order of the day
torn wadi
We legit, have this convo daily.
near glen
Petition to ban new joiners from this channel, they either troll or post messages like that, lol
foggy fern
So it's not a perfect filter for stupid but we should still do it 😛
pearl plinth
Average nitro subscriber
foggy fern
Someone found a new favorite word https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1419078894074875914
restive seal
He's not just hurt about losing. He is still actively pushing the idea that the nonsense "audit" in one state will get the election overturned and he will be put in as president. https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1419080772179406851
restive seal
Better pay them very well, because they'll have a lot of patients:
Roughly one-third of Americans believe that President Biden’s 2020 electoral victory was the result of widespread voter fraud, according to a new Monmouth University poll.
Thirty-two percent of respondents say fraud was the reason Biden won the presidential election, maintaining a trend that has taken hold over the past seven months.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/559402-one-third-of-americans-believe-biden-won-because-of-voter-fraud-poll
near glen
Oh man
restive seal
Yeah, because it's not just him repeating this lie. It's a lot of people pushing this lie for their benefit and now there are millions who believe it.
pure jetty
yeah 1/3 adds up
pretty much half voted for trump
and that other poll said a majority (or close to) thought it was a rigged election
sheesh
near glen
It's extremely dangerous that so much of your population is completely detached from reality
loud flax
if trump's agenda was to get everyone distracted, then he succeeded brilliantly. If he was doing good work in office, people would be too distracted by the idiotic things he does
near glen
Trump is too stupid to have an agenda, lol
pure jetty
It's extremely dangerous that so much of your population is completely detached ...
yeah it's pretty bad
loud flax
well, if that's what he wants you to think, he did a good job then
pure jetty
luckily its not a majority lmfao
near glen
Other than the usual make the rich richer or course
restive seal
It's extremely dangerous that so much of your population is completely detached ...
They've been taught not to trust anything but that which affirms their beliefs, so there's no good way to pull them out of it either. Remember that this is the group that 180-turned on Fox News after Fox called a close race state for Biden.
pure jetty
alternative media
near glen
Aka random YouTube channels?
pure jetty
yeah and facebook
restive seal
Some went back to Fox anyway because attention spans are for losers and they aren't losers. But there's a definite rise in OAN (One America News Network) which is scary as heck.
near glen
Alternate media, alternate facts, alternate reality 🤷♂️
pure jetty
main stream actual news channels aren't that horrible. hell compared to some of this shit people listen to online, fox looks perfectly fine
but also Fox and Friends != news
it's technically "entertainment"
i think the entire "Fox News Channel" is classified as entertainment actually?
restive seal
Fox's news coverage is pretty much fine. But they have, what, an hour a day of that? And the rest is pretend news / entertainment.
pure jetty
yeah
loud flax
i have a friend that doesn't even think covid-19 is real. They also have a big problem with the news media. Since covid-19 has been all over the news, they have more doubts on it
near glen
i have a friend that doesn't even think covid-19 is real. They also have a big p...
Well, there are studies suggesting covid might cause long term intelligence loss so that would explain that 😂
restive seal
i have a friend that doesn't even think covid-19 is real. They also have a big p...
And they aren't alone in their delusion. It's terrifying how many people have been pushed to distrust the news and distrust science by these grifters.
loud flax
it didn't help one of their friends ended up getting on the news for something (idk what it was), and the details didn't match up with reality. That's kind of what started them down the doubtful path
well, i don't want to fill in the blanks on their distrust, but that's at least part of it
near glen
We sought to confirm whether there was an association between cross-sectional cognitive performance data from 81,337 participants who between January and December 2020 undertook a clinically validated web-optimized assessment as part of the Great British Intelligence Test, and questionnaire items capturing self-report of suspected and confirmed COVID-19 infection and respiratory symptoms.
People who had recovered from COVID-19, including those no longer reporting symptoms, exhibited significant cognitive deficits versus controls when controlling for age, gender, education level, income, racial-ethnic group, pre-existing medical disorders, tiredness, depression and anxiety.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(21)00324-2/fulltext
Urg formatting fucked
loud flax
significant eh
near glen
Explanation could be that you have to be dum and not protect yourself to get covid in the first place
But yeah, that might be scarry
We don't know how much worse these long term effects will get
So since anybody not vaccinating will eventually get it, they are in for a bit surprise
loud flax
i've fortunately not gotten covid
restive seal
And plenty vaccinating will get it anyway because of the idiots refusing the vaccine for non-medical reasons.
near glen
Yeah, that's fun too
But at least it shouldn't be as bad I guess
Hopefully we can solve this with new boosters too
restive seal
So now you have responsible people getting it and potentially getting long-lasting side effects because of a bunch of selfish, delusional people screwing them over.
near glen
Which is why we should just force it
Just like we force some other vaccinations
E.g., need to be vaccinated against measles to enter a school here iirc
restive seal
Yeah, I really hope there's a solution that involves no further harm to those who care about their health including those who cannot get the vaccine for medical reasons.
Forcing to enter a school misses everyone too old to be in school though, which is a lot of people 😦
pure jetty
can trump just tell people to get vaccinated ffs
they'd listen to him
but he won't because it makes biden look good
near glen
Isn't trump vaccinated?
near glen
Oh wait trump had covid
pure jetty
yeah
near glen
To go back to the study I linked.....
pure jetty
restive seal
At this point if Trump said to get vaccinated...
"They captured OUR PRESIDENT and forced him to say these words! Do not get the vaccine, and stand by ready to attack the feds to get our president back!"
pure jetty
lmfao
faint radish
Trump already told people to get vaccinated iirc
pure jetty
yeah but he talked about it once and never again
faint radish
faint radish
"I would recommend it and I would recommend it to a lot of people that don't want to get it and a lot of those people voted for me, frankly," Trump told "Fox News Primetime."
pure jetty
you know what's funny
if he said that on twitter (and still had an account) it would probably have a better effect
(not saying he should have an account)
restive seal
Looks like he may have also said to get the vaccine at the same speech we quoted, before moving on to deliberately misgender a trans athlete while complaining about her.
restive seal
(not saying he should have an account)
You know, Milo has a lot of interesting points to say about this topic https://twitter.com/nero
foggy fern
significant eh
btw significant in this case usually just means it's above the noise floor, p-value and such
It's more likely than the null hypothesis
It doesn't mean you went from mensa to special-ed or something
vernal sandal
i shared my opinion here and everyone is like lets attack this guy, he is sharing opinion we can not allow it
vernal sandal
politics in minecraft discord server
This
mystic ermine
We're a community of friends as much as a block game server, that commentary is not needed here
faint radish
????
shut vine
i shared my opinion here and everyone is like lets attack this guy, he is sharin...
I don't give a shit about the original opinion you expressed for various reasons. You're a random person that I don't know. This is a minecraft related discord guild, not specifically a minecraft server (maybe that's what you meant I don't know, if so then I obviously retract).
However if you can share a potentially offensive opinion (which I fully support your right to do so despite what everyone else said); then when people have an opinion that is potentially offensive about your opinion, you are realistically complaining about the same thing you're doing.
faint radish
Are there some deleted msgs or something? I’m missing context
foggy fern
They did the thing about how having this channel is weird, we implied they were an idiot and thought up ways to filter out idiots from the channel
shut vine
He commented about the server having a politics channel politics in minecraft discord server thats interesting a while back (potentially offensive, who cares), then people had a negative view of his comments and expressed those views, then he had a cry about them.
Sharing opinions is a two way street. That being said, personal attacks are ZTI's.
I think anyway.
foggy fern
Bennett, who has been the public face of the review, was first barred from entering the audit site Friday after he shared some results with outside election experts, according to The Arizona Republic. Those experts told the paper that what they reviewed indicated the auditors' vote tally was in line with the results reported by the county.
Moore told ABC15, “we found of the 24 boxes sent, 20 had perfect matches.” In fact, Moore said Cyber Ninjas' numbers and the County’s matched 99.9% of the time. “If you extrapolate that to the full 2,089,563 count, it would be off by 124 ballots,” Moore said.
That's why they've been taking so long, they're trying to come up with a reason for the vote totals to be wrong 😛
brisk cradle
That's why they've been taking so long, they're trying to come up with a reason ...
I think everyone who was in the know about what they were doing knew that the "audit" would produce the pre-ordained outcome of "naw, ackshully the Dear Leader won bigly in Arizona!"
Yes, and while we're at it, he actually won bigly in Georgia, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin!
And Nevada!
faint radish
President Biden on Thursday called on state and local governments to use funds from his $1.9 trillion American Rescue Plan to offer $100 payments to individuals in order to incentivize coronavirus vaccinations.
Ahh ok. Now I know in the future, if the government wants me to do something, I’ll just wait until they offer me money.
brisk cradle
I am reading the sad stories of charter schools and the rightist and Silicon Valley funded effort to destroy public education, and this "meal plan" made me cry:
Bradford Preparatory Academy, in its application, explained that it caters lunches from Jimmy Johns and Panda Express. “All lunches remaining after 12:15 p.m. are given to students or staff without lunches that day, so they don’t go to waste.”
It would be better if they just gave everyone a $200 grocery gift card every month. At least that way the kids might get fresh fruit and vegetables.
restive seal
> President Biden on Thursday called on state and local governments to use funds...
Well, nothing else is working so far to get these people to vaccinate...
pure jetty
From Biden Announcement Today:
- Wear masks in high risk situations/areas, regardless of vaccination status
- Free paid leave (for small/medium) to get vaccinated (including time helping family members to help vaccinated)
- Reaching out to states to form more incentives to give $100 per person when vaccinated
- Department of Vet. Affairs. is now requiring all doctors to get the vaccine
- Encouraging the Department of Defense to add COVID vaccine to the required list of vaccines for all service members
- Every federal employee will need to be vaccinated or abide by strict masking/social distancing/no travel guidelines
- This includes any companies/workers being contracted by the federal government (!!!!!!!!)
- Biden makes it clear that in person school will be a thing this year no matter what
- Billions in federal funding to safety measures
- CDC requiring masks for students regardless of vaccination status
- Asking schools to host one more vaccination clinic clinic before school season starts
- We're seeing 22% per d-o-d increase in adolescent vaccination
- Federal government is ready to help any overloaded health system in largely unvaccinated areas
- 609,441 deaths from COVID in the US as of today
glossy sandal
$100 for getting vaccinated apply retroactively? 
pure jetty
nah
pure jetty
Biden has also just said in a question that he thinks it is not possible to issue a federal wide mask mandate legally (I imagine he's asking the DOJ to explore the option)
pure jetty
Get paid to bring ppl to get vaccines
you will get paid leave if its a family member
As he walks out: he says he expects the FDA to issue full approvals in the fall if all goes well
faint radish
So if money is the thing that will motivate a person to get the vaccine, I’d encourage them to keep waiting. Hope the government increases the payouts.
A saw a good comparison to airline vouchers on overbooked flights
The people who aren’t getting the vaccine either are never going to get it, or there’s something that would encourage them to get it.
pure jetty
There are a good number who can't afford to not work in order to get the vaccine, so the paid leave will help with that
i wouldn't encourage anyone to wait, the payout will likely stay at $100, i only see it going away not increasing
glossy sandal
When does that start
Wonder what will happen when stories come out that people are faking not having vaccines to get multiple payments, or forcing family to get it so they can take the money
foggy fern
The $100 thing is up to states to do using leftover funds from the last relief bill
So the states that would most need it probably also won't do it
No way Kim Reynolds is going to give people $100
brisk cradle
brisk cradle
The $100 thing is up to states to do using leftover funds from the last relief b...
Too bad, most of the GOP states decided to give tax cuts to the wealthy for the most part
WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE POOR, OPPRESSED BILLIONAIRES IN OUR COUNTRY? 😢 😢 😢 😢 😢 😢
pure jetty
the $100 would come from American Rescue Plan funding
drifting arch
@simple prairie Nah I mean, it's very improbable. But nonetheless, it's still active
https://yescalifornia.org/ lmao
Fucking weirdos. I don't take part in it, but I am watching
simple prairie
<@!177150983258767360> Nah I mean, it's very improbable. But nonetheless, it's s...
Imagine if homeless people need a visa or passport to enter Cali 
drifting arch
Oh lord
simple prairie
Kinda feel bad here for thinking that but that’s literally first thing pop into my mind lmao
drifting arch
Oh they may have given up on this, not sure. I see most stuff seems to be from mid 2020
Oh, some stuff from 2021
I dunno. Seems very unorganized
simple prairie
That’s not ducking happening. If anything it’s like shooting themselves on the foot with how business are moving out of Cali
drifting arch
:p
foggy fern
I thought we found out in 2017 the leader of the calexit stuff lived in Russia
That was after the news broke in Dec 2016 that he was living in Russia, had for most of the last decade, and that Russian-linked Twitter bots were helping push the Calexit movement
narrow ore
I mean Alaska/Cali did have some Russian settlements way back when
pure jetty
"leave the rest to me" lmfao
restive seal
Good lord I hope there's a recording
restive seal
"I won't get the vaccine because I'm not a sheep"
tough cedar
just a sheep of a different flock 😔
near glen
In Germany we mandate tests for a bunch of stuff, like entering non grocery stores or restaurants, if cases in the area are above a threshold, so we now thinking of making those tests cost money to unvaccinated ppl
Like, if you past 2 weeks of your second shot you need no test, if you already got first shot or second shut but not two weeks, test is free, if you not planning to get the shot, you gotta pay
Not forcing ppl to vaccinate, just making it less convenient and moving the costs to the idiots causing the cost
Hopefully we implement that
restive seal
Brilliant
brisk cradle
Exactly the kind of thing I shouldn’t read before bed https://apple.news/AfiyTfnXTQ4OCJTOmS0xGfg
It’s both not shocking and also very sad
foggy fern
On a related depressing note, although I think this has been posted in here before https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/inside-the-koch-backed-effort-to-block-the-largest-election-reform-bill-in-half-a-century
near glen
Haha crypto bros are getting scared they will have to pay taxes 😂
https://twitter.com/jchervinsky/status/1421150344051048451?s=19
Twitter
Apperently Text did already change
pure jetty
people buying/selling bitcoin have always had to pay taxes
when you sell it that to like USD for example
it's taxed as a capital gain
foggy fern
Am I reading that wrong or are they trying out a financial transaction tax but only on cryptocurrencies?
The White House was trying to figure out if they could pull off a more general version of that tax by selling it as a tax on Wall Street
near glen
Do you not have a financial transaction tac already?
foggy fern
No, only capital gains
near glen
Oh wow
I thought this would only extend an existing tax
Cause we got financial transaction taxes here
After bankers ruined everything in 2009
foggy fern
Germany isn't on the list on Wikipedia
near glen
EU
foggy fern
When I saw "enhanced co-operation" I was like "wow, EU members be torturing each other to implement this"
But apparently it's not a euphemism
near glen
Man I could have sworn this passed
Guess it left the news cycle after it was proposed and i forgot
foggy fern
At least the UK won't be a factor if it goes forward 😛
Germany and France tried again in 2019, still nothing
near glen
Sad
shut vine
How are the vegans coping with the stance Germany is taking on vaccinations?
near glen
?
Cause it's been trials on animals?
Ppl don't give a flying fuck
Or what do you mean
Whats Germany's stance?
shut vine
Vegans are typically anti-vaccinations, because animals being harmed in the production or testing of vaccinations
near glen
Ppl aren't dum, they realize it's the only way
My sister is hardcore vegan and she has all vaccinations for everything cause she travels so much
shut vine
It's also common for them to be against the companies themselves since they have long histories of doing such things
Yeah I didn't say it was the only stance, just a common one.
near glen
Haven't heard that here even once
pure jetty
Ppl aren't dum
welllllllllll
near glen
_ laughs in free universal education_
restive seal
Gelato isn't vegan?
restive seal
When I saw "enhanced co-operation" I was like "wow, EU members be torturing each...
What does it say about our country that I had similar thoughts? 🤔
foggy fern
plush crypt
How are the vegans coping with the stance Germany is taking on vaccinations?
Vegetarian myself: vaccinations heavily outweigh any testing that has been done; of course I’d prefer one which wasn’t tested on animals, but that’s not really a possibility in Sweden…
near glen
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-health-officials-recommend-vaccine-boosters-as-wel...
I am kinda meh on this. Allowing teens to get it is obviously the right thing. The issue is that they are ignoring the recommendation of our experts. That seta a meh precedent. Then again, I really don't understand why STIKO doesn't recommend it to teens in the first place...
foggy fern
The article seems to imply it's a concern over shortages
If you don't have enough for all the old folks to get a shot yet opening it up for teenagers will just make that problem worse
near glen
We have enough for everyone tho
We do walk ins at a bunch of places already cause ppl are too lazy to get appointments
mystic ermine
I mean, I ended up doing a walk-in because it's easier to just show up than book an appointment and pray that my health doesn't throw me off and I miss it
Like, such broad statements are bleh
mystic ermine
There is no local places, like, all of them are too far away and I don't generally care to use public transport because far too confusing and mental health go burr, and the website for booking an appointment was racking my head as well as the horrors of tryna be able to set a time and say that I'll 100% be up, ready, and able to leave the house
near glen
Here you can get it at your GP
Or your work
Or central places
Or random places like the mosque and infront of some shopping centers
foggy fern
There are at least 3 places I'd consider within walking distance (30 minute walk) where I could walk in and get the shot, if I didn't have it already
When I got mine we were still doing it in an indoor arena because they thought they needed a massive scale
But for my second dose no one showed up
lusty ibex
mystic ermine
I moved during lockdown is the issue, and so my GP is like, also a 30 minute or so walk away
The place nearby won't allow people in without an appointment and I don't have a printer to be able to print off the application forms
foggy fern
This is why I got a laser printer
near glen
They don't accept stuff via email?
Wtf
I haven't printed something in at least 5 years
foggy fern
You can get them cheap and they last for like a decade even if you don't use them, unlike the $20 inkjet printers that last a month before the ink dries out
mystic ermine
No email, I saw that they finally got an online registration form recently which is good given how long we've been in this mess
near glen
I just oppose the concept of using trees to convey information
Seems like a 19th century kinda thing
mystic ermine
my health and wanting to get a job situation is somewhat of a complex nightmare, especially given that my own city right now is one of those areas where the job market shot closed like somebody dropping the soap type deal over here
foggy fern
foggy fern
Huh
The archived version doesn't have all the charts but that's from https://archive.is/UE1Kh
Carter is higher on this that I would have thought, considering how everyone thinks about him
near glen
well, gotta defend trump here, there are a tons of events that can accept gdp that are out of control of the president
foggy fern
The article spends a lot of time going over that
near glen
oh didn't look
foggy fern
It explains a president doesn't necessarily have a lot of control over GDP, why some of the numbers can be explained away, etc
But it also points out Trump spent all his time talking up GDP numbers so it's fair to nail him with them
pure jetty
republicans love to go hard on GDP when its in their favor or if the dems had a bad gdp
near glen
meh, could have the best plans and best intends and still get bitten in the ass
brisk cradle
PULL YOURSELF UP BY THE BOOTSTRAPS! https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/texas-officials-deny-hospitals-requests-hundreds-emergency-staff-help-covid-surge/287-a93342ab-29b4-47ee-acf0-2a70718ff670
tough cedar
4 of the capitol police that were at the 6th capitol riots have committed suicide now
dusky raft
@brisk cradle given the amount of cash hospitals and insurance companies milk their patients, im surprised that they have to beg the government for cash
dusky raft
@glossy sandal which is why I think government should have a rainy day fund for emergencies, and companies need to provide proof they need the aid and government funding
foggy fern
Problem is such government insurance schemes seem to have their benefits go up but not their payments/taxes so they turn in to another source of the government giving out free money
dusky raft
pretty much,
foggy fern
Like the flood insurance program that is the only reason the gulf coast still has buildings on it
dusky raft
not only does it enrich the fucks who get off well with the program, it wouldnt shock me if a good portion was pocketed by the politicians
foggy fern
At this point good chunks of the coast would be uninsurable absent government intervention so the next time the houses got wiped out in a flood they'd just be gone for good
Instead the government pays for people to have their house and all their shit rebuilt/repurchased every 20 years
And getting more frequent
dusky raft
a good chunk of the land is quite well off with flood insurance
mystic ermine
Thank god for governments and their efficent money spending!
dusky raft
generally beachside property is more expensive than further in land
also more expensive housing
restive seal
It's not just beachfront that needs flood insurance though.
foggy fern
Nah, this is stuff where only old folks and businesses own the houses. Old folks because they grandfathered in and can't sell since no one else can get a mortgage and renters because the landlord doesn't care if they don't get fully reimbursed by the government for their losses
The government should have just bought the properties via eminent domain for safety reasons and torn them down
dusky raft
ah, more expense, also, people like the idea of living in a shack, kind of why they buy/rent the place.
foggy fern
It's more expensive to pay for flood damage 15-20 times on a property than it would be to buy it and tear it down
Hell my city did something like this for riverfront property 50-60 years ago
Some of that land got rebuilt and turned in to a park, some of it is just meadow
This section of land flooded like 4 times in 10 years, the city bought it all up and tore it down
It still floods about once a decade
dusky raft
what state?
foggy fern
Iowa
dusky raft
I lived near the ocean and flooding wasnt much of an issue
foggy fern
I mean, I'm exaggerating about how much of the gulf coast would be gone but there are a few neighborhoods that just wouldn't exist
Unfortunately they're usually where old folks and/or poor folks live so you look terrible if you try to just get rid of the insurance program
But attempts to help people find other housing get attacked as the government spending too much money 
dusky raft
generally in massachusetts, it was the more wealthy middle class that owned land near beachside property (usually right on the water without walls or other barrier to help mitigate storm water and such), the poorer homeowners/tenants lived further inland protected by flooding problems.
places that generally had low income housing did have barriers in place, but we are talking about rather old barriers
foggy fern
Yeah I'm talking about Louisiana and Florida
dusky raft
sure, that is different. doesnt really shock me about those places really
foggy fern
Although apparently it is true that 80% of homes under this insurance program are in wealthier than average counties
A lot of those are in Massachusetts 😄
Fucking Martha's Vineyard and such
60% more people live in Special Flood Hazard Areas than did so when the program was created though so it seems to be doing the wrong thing
Wow discord just crashed so hard it's treating me like this is the first time I opened it
And then just crashed again when I tried to copy/paste the URL to a politico article
But yeah, the program helps rich people more than poor people but sets up incentives that make it more likely poor people will be hurt by the flooding
dusky raft
@foggy fern socialism for the well connected
brisk cradle
Twitter
brisk cradle
More context: https://twitter.com/chadloder/status/1421931374567563264
so of course the right-wing ecosystem is full of actors arising from smoke and mirrors financed with reactionary billionaire cash
restive seal
soros bucks being projection is not something I'd have seen coming
faint radish
I actually can’t believe the CDC extended the eviction moratorium…
What an awful thing for the biden admin to do. When the court pretty clearly said they can’t do that…
pure jetty
yeah that was a weird thing for biden admin to do
i think it was after the massive shit ton of pressure they got
shut vine
I mean if the court has ruled EO's couldn't do that, the EO is not binding is it?
pure jetty
but i mean the supreme court did their shit where they go "this is bad but we'll just let it expire"
and no that's not EO's work
a court could order an injunction
to block the EO
but they need to be ruled on 1 by 1
faint radish
pure jetty
trumps "muslim ban" EO got an injunction by a federal court for example
faint radish
The court only allowed it 5-4 cause kavanaugh said it can just expire but any further stuff needs to be done by Congress
5/9 said the CDC exceeded their authority
pure jetty
yeah i read the statement from the SCOTUS
they always do this tho
they need to start fucking blocking them
faint radish
Yeah, and it’s horrible. The thinking is, it will be long enough before it’s overturned for Congress to do something
Talk about not “preserving” the constitution.
Right there in the oath
pure jetty
i mean it seems like Biden himself was opposed to it
faint radish
Yeah that’s what I thought too
pure jetty
this seems like the campaign going for optics
faint radish
They said many times there wasn’t a legal way to do it.
Citing that scotus decision
pure jetty
well yeah scotus said congress needs to either issue the moratorium or give the CDC the sole power to issue one
I see why they didn't want to push it thru congress tho, there are bigger fish to fry atm
pure jetty
We're about to see some BASED ass EV news tomorrow probably
hopefully extending ev credit cutoff so teslas apply for them again
or maybe just maybe, carbon tax 
sand shale
daring locust
wtf
dusky raft
2021 tax season is going to be REAL interesting
I wonder if land owners would get relief on property taxes if they rented apartment/houses
would also make me wonder what will happen if they fail to pay property taxes, thats the even more scary part
foggy fern
soros bucks being projection is not something I'd have seen coming
The Tea Party movement is entirely astroturf so it's nothing new
Well, maybe there was something real there to start with but if so it was quickly taken over
dusky raft
also, if people werent paying their rent, what were people shoring up cash buying?
because the federal government was rather generous with welfare...
pure jetty
the moratorium applies to very little actual people
To be eligible, renters must meet the following qualifications:
– You have used your “best efforts” to obtain government rental assistance;
– You do not expect to earn more than $99,000 in 2021 (or $198,000 if you are married and filed a
joint tax return), or you did not need to report income to the federal government in 2020, or you
received an Economic Impact Payment (stimulus check) this year;
– You have been experiencing a “substantial” loss of household income because of a layoff or
reduced work hours, or you have “extraordinary” out-of-pocket medical expenses (defined as an
unreimbursed medical expense that exceeds 7.5% of your adjusted gross income for the year);
– You have been making your best effort to make partial rent payments as close to the full amount
due as possible; and
– Being evicted would cause you to become homeless or you would have to move in with a friend or
family member (live “doubled up”).
People who want to qualify for it must make payments as close to the rent amount as possible
dusky raft
the renewed one or just in total?
pure jetty
and after it expires they pay balance afaik
foggy fern
It's a moratorium on eviction, not on rent
pure jetty
yeah exactly
but its not like people are going to be hoarding money, this effects people living like paycheck to paycheck
foggy fern
So yeah, you'd still have to pay eventually or go through chapter 7 bankruptcy
foggy fern
Twitter
Having all of these people be paid shills is probably too much
Some of them? I don't doubt it. That's how it works, you get the shills to rile up the true believers and keep the movement going
That's how the Tea Party worked anyway
Oops I tried to paste a link in to Discord from my laptop again 
weary lake
It's always Urk
shy gulch
urk moment
pure jetty
the living wage calculator can assume for how much would be needed for a single person to support an entire family of up to 3
the OP didn't specify anything
they also didn't break it down by county
this fucking OP is lazy as shit
dusky raft
also, being from NH, no one pays the state minimum wage
I havent seen the family dollar stores pay that low
pure jetty
well I mean thats besides the point because im sure some do
but a state wide graph like that is very disingenuous
dusky raft
litterally the only time ive seen low wages is online job positions
pure jetty
cost of living changes a shit ton on county levels let alone town levels
dogshit reductionist charts like that lead to the lEtS jUsT mAkE tHe MiN WaDgE fOrTy An HoUR arguments
dusky raft
yes, actually, even different parts of town can have different living costs, given im in a fairly midclass area, surrounded by lower class housing
pure jetty
the opposite is true for that graph in CA too
the cost of living has to be way fucking higher in like
LA
SF
i highly fucking doubt its a """""""""""""""""""livable""""""""""""""""""" wage there
dusky raft
lack of good housing development and ever increasing regulations on housing makes prices skyrocket'
dusky raft
I mean is it? that sure is working quite well.
pure jetty
what we need is more state/federal investment into affordable housing
yes housing regulations are 100% needed
without them you will get inspectors finding things wrong when you sell your house so the buyer will either back out or require you to fix it
FHA will not issue loans on those houses because it's not as secure of a loan (if it falls into disrepair)
things like these cause liquidity issues in the housing market
dusky raft
oh im not talking about how the houses are built and sold, more so on the paperwork it takes to build and procure housing. though it would be a bonus if we can find cheaper and safer building material.
otherwise we would have the same issues as the early 20th century with influx of europeans, shoddy apartment buildings
well
we do have those issues still
also demand drives up housing, which is typical in higher end cities.
so when you have a state/city that does high taxes, hinders new construction jobs with ever increasing regulations (environmental, sentimental, etc), and ever so more higher demand + high end jobs, its no wonder why city rent prices are sky high
mystic ermine
I mean, rossmans channel has a few summaries of how shitty stuff is in NY
dusky raft
nevermind its amazing how high property costs are in places like new york, where shitbox houses cost $800k
yeah, I about to mention that
regardless of politics, he just states that the politicians running new york dont give a flying fuck about housing.
unless it helps them get re-elected
mystic ermine
Like, the pricing of stuff is fucking ass, then you have the assurances which mean that if landlords rent less for their asking price it reduces the value of the building which they then need to pay back in relative terms to the loan which means that it's often cheaper to just leave the place empty for a decade or two, combined with many areas where building new flats is often a million dollar battle due to crap like anti-gentrification crap
dusky raft
yes, there are times where I will say that sometimes preserving history may be good, but these activists arent making it easier for them either
people with more money generally win, and so move in
its a vicious cycle that makes everyone lose
mystic ermine
The thing is that the "preserving history" stuff just leads to historical buildings which fall apart as they're often already under-maintained in a delopidated state and need costly work in which it's often just cheaper to move on, knock the thing down and build new
There was a good video I saw a while back of somebody who wanted to turn their laundrette into a block of flats, of which would have things like rent controlled appartments in there in order to meet the requirements
and it got denied originally due to gentrification complaints and such, which is like, there is a high demand to live in that area due to all the tech companies within distance, places which pay high wages so landlords are able to charge shit prices in an area which has a high demand short supply due to all this crap that you cause
let a few flats be build to take up the slack of the tech companies and magically the competativeness starts to die down
ofc, they've let the issue pile up for so long in an over populated place that resolving this is not gonna be fast or pretty
dusky raft
pretty much. besides that, id be scared about the eviction moratorium. I dont know what the exact numbers are, but I'm hearing something about 7-9 million households owing backrent? Can anyone dispute these numbers and provide any additional information such as before the moratorium and/or covid?
foggy fern
SF intentionally makes it hard/impossible to build more than 2 or 3 stories or even to build 2 or more family dwellings (duplex, quad, etc)
They put in "affordable housing" requirements instead which just makes even less shit get built and makes the problem worse
Worded that oddly, they make it a PITA to build anything more than single family homes then when you do manage to jump through the hoops they make you give some of it away for affordable housing. The result is you're less likely to make money trying to build anything so less things get built.
dusky raft
@foggy fern im all for affordable housing, but more so in regards to meeting demand than outright government outreach.
meet demand, find ways to make construction cheaper (one of the issues of zoning is the requirement of making all buildings look the same, or even forcing the use of certain materials)
its also why im pro modular when it comes to housing
just plug and play
foggy fern
Isn't modular housing just a fancy word for trailer? 😛
dusky raft
well there is plenty of that here, but I'm more or less talking about fabrication of entire rooms or sections of a building at a factory and building it up. We do that already at small scale.
when you think of it, you can have the core portion of the building that is somewhat traditional, but property owners can decide that rooms to pick and choose.
mystic ermine
I mean, issue is "does it scale", and do we wanna go looking like soviet style block flats?
foggy fern
I'd be more worried about this https://www.ted.com/talks/james_howard_kunstler_the_ghastly_tragedy_of_the_suburbs
brisk cradle
Republicans: This is fine: https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/40-of-all-covid-19-hospitalizations-in-florida-georgia-and-louisiana-cdc-says
Also Republicans; It's very important that only our voters can enjoy free and fair elections
What snowflakes!
Maybe we need to add conservative trigger warnings too.
Florida, Georgia, and Louisiana alone account for nearly 40% of all hospitalizations in the country
Of course, the solution is to double down on saying that the measures that might bring the numbers down don't work, when they do, and complain about "muh freedumbs"
restive seal
Maybe we need to add conservative trigger warnings too.
TW: Science
brisk cradle
I'd like the freedom to not die from COVID, so I got vaccinated with a safe and effective vaccine.
dusky raft
@brisk cradle could go live in the mountains in the middle of fuckall nowhere
no covid there
hell, no people either
foggy fern
It's not as effective against the delta variant, apparently
Something like 99% of people in the hospital at least are unvaccinated but there are a lot of news reports about vaccinated people getting it, like half a baseball team
That's why we need everyone (or almost anyway) to get vaccinated
Stamp it out before it mutates to something the vaccine doesn't work on
pure jetty
yeah
Also, Pfizer is still 96% effective against hospitalization of the delta variant
tough cedar
i wonder if i can get a pfizer booster whenever that happens
or if i'd have to get a j&j booster
pure jetty
i don't think they're gonna let you mix them at this point in time
dusky raft
you have a higher chance of not being hospitalized from the vaccine, it just doesnt prevent it outright.
tough cedar
fuk, stuck with the inferior vaccine
pure jetty
there is very little research on mixing vaccine types atm
dusky raft
dont they all target the same protein coat or whatever it is that tells the immune system to look out for?
pure jetty
you have a higher chance of not being hospitalized from the vaccine, it just doe...
correct, it has reduced effectiveness against symptomatic experiences (83% for delta vs 92% on alpha) and asymptomatic experiences (79% for delta 92% on alpha)
dusky raft
also most deaths from what ive seen are mainly older people
foggy fern
I think the UK did some trials on mixing vaccines, whether you wanted to or not 😛
And on changing up when the second dose was
near glen
There is a study that mixing AZ and biontech is more effective than biontech alone
near glen
Idk, haven't look at the study, it just made the news here
pure jetty
I doubt any mixing of Pfizer-Moderna (mRNA)/adenovirus vector vaccines has been peer reviewed
foggy fern
UK said "we're doing this thing" and then later had studies showing that doing the thing was good maybe
pure jetty
most of the news headlines are likely preprints
mystic ermine
I mean, it's just giving the immune system more material to work with
pure jetty
in which case its as good as fucking garbage
foggy fern
Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna vaccines are essentially identical so mixing between those two shouldn't have any concern
They have different delivery systems but the mRNA bit is the same
near glen
most of the news headlines are likely preprints
Not dum websites, public news show on "tv" (i watch it on YouTube)
pure jetty
They're likely to have less of a problem mixing them than with a adenovirus vector (J&J/AZ) type
foggy fern
mRNA and adenovirus work differently so you will some difference in protection, only question is if it'll be better or worse
pure jetty
but they are still different RNA code so it could be a problem
pure jetty
Not dum websites, public news show on "tv" (i watch it on YouTube)
doesn't matter where you got it from, i still doubt its peer reviewed
foggy fern
Are they different code? I thought the only differences were in the parts of the sequence that didn't get read
pure jetty
I don't know 100%
mystic ermine
I mean, we still don't know the full inner workings of the immune system
pure jetty
i still would wait for like proper studies
mystic ermine
it might not be considered to be read but if it makes a difference for how the immune system actually works, it could help with our bodies ability to "flag" stuff
Ofc, all of this stuff is still early days so really, who knows
foggy fern
No no, I mean the bits that were different were in the control logic, the resulting protein is identical
mystic ermine
oh
I mean, they did say AZ and the biontech one for the study, which would have some different workings for the immune system
foggy fern
Trying to find the post I was reading about this, was an biotech guy who decided FAANG paid better explaining how RNA works, iirc
It's like of like a paper tape for a Turing machine, it has data and control logic mixed together
Stop codons and such
The differences were in the "header" and some of that stuff, not in the protein they were instructing the cell to build
pure jetty
looked into it and it does seem both pfizer and moderna indeed appear to be using encoding the same spike glycoprotein
and they both use the same mutations (K986P/V987P)
foggy fern
Yeah but I must not have read that from the person I thought I did since he says he couldn't find any details on what Moderna is doing
brisk cradle
oh well - where I live, most people aren't vaccinated anyway, so I probably have the virus /shrug
pure jetty
at least you'll be safe! :3
keen swift
Uhhh... I going to have to wear a mask to school because very few people there are vaccinated
Like just get vaccinated
sour tangle
TF, here is actualy normal conversation about pandemic / vaccination
near glen
Not really politics I guess, but am sitting in a restaurant and I have been watching the different liferando dudes (not a single woman) go in and out for an hour now: half of them are in an age where they shouldnt have to work anymore, this guy that just passed is easily above 70
Society has failed them
faint radish
how can you possibly say that without knowing a thing about them other than their age, and what they were doing at that exact moment that you saw them?
mystic ermine
depends on why they're working
Like, if they need to work, yes, 100%, especially in a modern society
But, I mean, my grandfather even after retirement would still show up here and there at the warehouse and help me figure shit out
modern social schemes these days are often poverty traps too
near glen
They are poor as fuck, they didn't work cause of choice
woven reef
My grandma is coming up on 67 and is “retired”. She was a nurse at a children’s hospital for 20+ years and my step-grandpa was a firefighter for a big city for 20+ years as well. My grandma says she’s retired but still spends most days working at a nursing home. They are fine on money as they live minimally and could afford a pretty lavish lifestyle, but she just chooses to work.
My step-Granpa will do jobs fixing fences for friends but he doesn’t get paid much if at all
dusky raft
to be honest, id rather work through retirement, tone it down a bit because of aging, but otherwise I dont want to be sitting around doing absolutely nothing
near glen
If it's a choice thats fine
But we shouldn't subject our elderly so minimum wage bicycle delivery jobs, lol
pure jetty
Do you not have social security like we do in the states?
mystic ermine
God, that takes me back
Too low quality, but, damn, I remember when shit like flowgo was like the goto for rando crap
keen swift
Society has failed them
I think society/humanity has failed those who die from starvation and homelessness, especially at this day and age
near glen
Do you not have social security like we do in the states?
We do, but not enough
near glen
right wingers in Germany: "we have to stop moving the political spectrum to the left!"
The actual political spectrum:
Haven't seen that website before, this one is fun too
glossy sandal
foggy fern
US 2008 looked better
pure jetty
Biden would likely not be there now
He moved significantly to the left as president
Even after the primaries he's moved more left
foggy fern
If you say so but this is where they had him as of October so...
pure jetty
I was talking real world not dumbass online compass
foggy fern
pure jetty
Infrastructure Bill passed Senate 69-30 🎉
tough cedar
infrastructure week!
near glen
was that the bill where they snug bitcoin legislation into and crypto bros got upset?
tough cedar
i believe it was that bill but i don't know if it's still in there
pure jetty
it is still in there
near glen
the crypto bros I follow said it got better
pure jetty
republicans wanted to redefine broker, but that amendment failed
near glen
I should give it a read
pure jetty
In the compromise amendment, the definition of a “broker” was clarified to exclude validators, like miners and stakers. The amendment received support from Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen.
However, the Senate did not vote unanimously, with Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Al., objecting. Because unanimous consent was required for the compromise amendment to pass, the original definition will remain.
Currently, the bill defines a “broker” as “any person who (for consideration) is responsible for regularly providing any service effectuating transfers of digital assets on behalf of another person,”
pure jetty
also, worth noting it's up to enforcement agencies to actually enforce this as requested
tough cedar
Mr. Trump, who blew up infrastructure talks during his administration, issued another missive early Tuesday, declaring Mr. McConnell “the most overrated man in politics,” in part for allowing the bill to advance. lol
pure jetty
they could interpret the law as the more clarified one in the amendment
near glen
why does trump still have a platform?
is it gov agencies or state agencies that would enforce this?
tough cedar
idk where he spoke, it was just in the nYT article
pure jetty
federal congress passes tax policy where it gets money, state congresses pass tax policy where they get the money
near glen
I see
gonna be interesting to see how this is enforced
they put it in for a reason, they need the money
pure jetty
indeed
and the tax policy they're voting on now is what will generate the money
they just entered into reconciliation for the budget
all votes require simple majority now (51 votes or 50 votes + VP)
this will last a long time
near glen
wait they voted to pass the spending bill first without securing budget? what happens if this second one fails? 😄
pure jetty
it will not
dems have the votes
if they can't pass the budget we enter what's called a government shutdown
all non essential agencies are shut down and congress remains in session until they pass a budget
but since dems have a simple majority in both houses its not a problem
however the senate going to enter a vote-a-rama shortly which means the republicans will suggest hundreds of nonsense amendments (each of which are limited to 10 minutes for discussion) to slow the process down
this session will likely last tens of hours
near glen
lol
are they allowed to leave?
so it will be ghost town in a bit?
or are they forced to attend?
tough cedar
i mean the dems have to stay if they want to get all their amendments passed
pure jetty
but dems are going to force votes as fast as possible
so a quorum of them will be very close to the chamber at all times
near glen
I see
foggy fern
The parties know it's just theater and make agreements to have equal numbers from both parties leave so they don't tilt the direction of any vote while allowing people to go eat and take naps
foggy fern
Oh hey Republicans believe import tariffs are paid for by Americans again 😛
pure jetty
you watching graham too?
foggy fern
Yep
tough cedar
The threat prompted a response from the administration of U.S. President Joe Biden, a Democrat, which is considering reimbursing school officials who lose their pay if DeSantis follows through on his threat.``` lolwat
foggy fern
He is looking for a way for the federal government to use the COVID relief funds the state was supposed to give to schools to reimburse the schools and bypass the governor
Probably isn't legal, they were looking for a loophole
brisk cradle
COVID unemployment subsidies ending be like https://youtu.be/6cu6zH92MaM?t=61
(RIP Bart Baker, now he is a star on Douyin (they are called TikTok outside of mainland China)
glossy sandal
So that means we need to legalize carrying around ar15s!
near glen
Wouldn't be surprised if that's legal in some states
dusky raft
@near glen it is legal in some states to carry any gun around
police may stop and ask questions as to why you need to bring your AR-15 into the gas station, but as long as you arent unloading it into people, your pretty much fine.
dusky raft
@shut vine wait what? california allows open carry?
im surprised that it would be allowed given that they require gun makers/owners to bastardize their AR-15's
mystic ermine
Cali generally prohibits it
shut vine
Yeah you can depending on your county.
mystic ermine
apparently there are some counties which permit it, but, eer
shut vine
I find it strange that concealed carry is more often permitted.
To my way of thinking, open carry should be the preferred as it quickly identifies the person as carrying a firearm which makes it easy to check if a person is following the law. In my opinion a concealed carry license should be harder to get.
To me the fact it's not like that makes it seem like entirely an optics thing.
mystic ermine
I mean, that's my guess
shut vine
"See, no guns here"
mystic ermine
I mean, I'd much rather a person carry it on their hip than be walking around with it in their hand as such
But, I mean, I say that in a country where pepper spray is illegal
shut vine
Oh I agree. Handling a firearm unnecessarily should be something an officer immediately investigates.
Have they made steak knives illegal yet?
I say that also from a country where pepper spray is illegal.
mystic ermine
I mean, it what makes me kinda envious of the US, especially given that I've had to make a sprint from people with a knife twice now
dusky raft
@mystic ermine well damn, someone try to mug you?
mystic ermine
One was somebody after my brother for the reason of he had nothing better to do and I was there so ofc came a target
another one, I used to walk through the woods and there where some peeps there basically waiting for some reason
dusky raft
ah, must be good having gun control laws, makes you feel safe?
mystic ermine
No
I mean, I'm in a country where not everybody needs guns, so, that's great
But, self defence in the UK is literally a joke
dusky raft
yeah, at least in the US you get a chance to defend yourself both physically and legally
woven reef
I live in Texas, and I’m all for the right to carry and own guns, but open carry is a bit excessive in my opinion, especially the recent law allowing people to carry handguns without a license. That is unnecessary and extremely dangerous.
dusky raft
wait, you needed a license beforehand?
woven reef
Wait I think it was a permit
mystic ermine
needed a gun permit
dusky raft
also yeah, its funny how the big scary AR-15 is looked at when it comes to gun control, yet most gun crimes are by handguns...
mystic ermine
But, hanguns are permitted under constitutional right bill now
I mean, that's the thing of it all
Politicians go crazy after some shooting case
Oh, we're gonna ban silencers
Oh, we're gonna ban bump stocks
Oh, we're gonna ban assault rifles
It's like, wat
dusky raft
silencer bans are stupid, they dont make the gun stupidly quiet
woven reef
I think banning guns entirely is a poor idea, since all it will really do is create a dangerous black market on top of the arsenals some people have already. Public backlash would be horrible.
dusky raft
some people are fucking better stocked than their local police
and besides, it wont stop the rich from getting guns or hiring a private contractor to protect them
mystic ermine
I mean, over in the UK, we just have knife crime
Now, US has the same problem as we do but also has a massive cultural issue which really doesn't help
But, people wanna blame the tool rather than actually deal with the socio-economic issues which cause it
near glen
That would require talking about boring topics institutional racism and mental health, we can't do that
foggy fern
If you use subsonic rounds a suppressed gun is almost like in the movies
Which is what you should be using anyway for target practice and such imo
mystic ermine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws8LAfD_3BA - This came up in my recs or something, maybe somebody linked it
foggy fern
Sounds like those rounds are going supersonic
Subsonic rounds and a suppressor you mostly just hear the action of the gun moving
foggy fern
It's not quiet like in movies but it's not that loud either
near glen
Just shoot thru a pillow, smh
near glen
This idiot, standing infront of a Tesla factory, building electric vehicles, asks Elon musk what the future for cars is and that it's hydrogen
That idiot wants to replace Merkel
mystic ermine
jesus
torn wadi
Coal powered cars.
mystic ermine
I mean, hydrogen makes sense but only really for long distance
But, I mean, theres a whooooole lot of issues to solve first, like
how the fuck do you get the hydrogen there
near glen
Hydrogen only really makes sense for trucks (which we should get rid off mostly anyways, that's what we got trains for) and ships (which we are building up at the ports already)
torn wadi
Just throw hydrogen generators at the problem.
near glen
But for consumer stuff, batteries are waaaaaayyyyy more efficient, and charging is already good enough
mystic ermine
we already have road networks
near glen
We also have trains
mystic ermine
which are already transporting stuff
near glen
Yet we building more roads instead of building more train tracks
mystic ermine
Theres only so much capacity on railways
near glen
Capacity went down
mystic ermine
because roads are more flexible and can carry better traffic density
near glen
In some areas we still use diesel, fucking Poland is complaining to us that the border lines don't have power
Obviously we need both, but we actively moved cargo off the train tracks, which is just plain stupid
We got trucks going cross Europe, would be so much more ecologically sane to do that via trains
mystic ermine
inb4 train held by customs
mystic ermine
oh yea, idk why I was thinking about the channel crossing
foggy fern
Hydrogen makes sense for commercial vehicles and buses, basically
It's not the future for "cars" though
torn wadi
There will still be cars made with them, since long range is good marketing.
foggy fern
I have a feeling we'll never have the infrastructure for it so they'll be a novelty
foggy fern
Yeah, that's why I said commercial vehicles only
near glen
Pretty sure they demolished all tanks
foggy fern
So you can have a small number of fueling depots and training for the drivers or dedicated attendants to handle fueling
near glen
I think it will only ever really make sense for boats and airplanes cause batteries are a worse alternative for these extreme cases
But trucks and especially busses can go electric too
We got both electric and hydrogen busses in the city and I think the decision was made to not persue hydrogen
We also starting to look into EV fire trucks, got a prototype
brazen thistle
doesnt it take more energy to create hydrogen than it produces?
foggy fern
That's a law man
near glen
What he means is that it's horribly inefficient, which is true
foggy fern
Doesn't have to be efficient if you have a clean energy source to produce it
Or at least cleaner than burning diesel or gasoline
brazen thistle
Doesn't have to be efficient if you have a clean energy source to produce it
sure but not like solar or wind are already that efficient, you wont have much left at that rate ;p
foggy fern
The advantage of hydrogen and synthgas is being able to quickly refuel
Pure electric is the most efficient but that doesn't help if you have to stop for 2 hours every 50 miles in your truck
near glen
Which isn't really an issue for most applications, unless you talking about insane power needs like ships
EVs are like, drive 300km and take a 30 min break
Or, on your commute, just charge slowly overnight
foggy fern
Talking about shipping though
You just said you're building less rail and more roads so more shipping is moving to trucks
foggy fern
And in the US talking about shipping without talking about trucks is a non-starter at this point
foggy fern
Maybe in 30 years we could have mostly rail, if we agreed we needed to start now
brazen thistle
people always wait till its too late
deep ravine
I’ve been under the impression that starting in 10-20 years, truckers will slowly start to be replaced with self driving electric trucks. This would lower emissions (and kill jobs, but different discussion).
I find that more likely than the US moving towards rail.
torn wadi
I’ve been under the impression that starting in 10-20 years, truckers will slowl...
Sounds like it's time for universal basic income.
deep ravine
Sure but that’s a different discussion
near glen
altho self driving trucks would be so dum, cause its still not as efficient as rail can be...
deep ravine
Sure, but that is a solution already in the works
America moved away from rails long ago
pure jetty
I'm highly skeptical of self driving trucks that soon, we'll likely get plain old electric trucks
And UBI sounds like an awful solution to a single job loss
near glen
its not gonna be a single one tho
pure jetty
I think we put the cart before the horse everytime AI taking over jobs are brought up
The only people AI will likely affect are a small subset of older workers
In which case you'd do some type of payment to them if needed
near glen
I disagree
there are so many jobs I could see getting cut
another solution to that would be reducing working hours
then we have more work
pure jetty
We've been saying this for years for other types of automations and the market still finds jobs
AI isn't going to replace jobs in our lifetimes
near glen
oh am not talking about tomorrow
pure jetty
Right, it's decades if not centuries off
near glen
we got other issues too, I don't know who will pay my pension
which could be solved by UBI
pure jetty
I mean there's just not enough data about it
UBI seems a little too extreme for my liking but if a big enough study comes out I'll have to relook at it
near glen
yeah we just need to give it a try
pure jetty
As for pension, UBI is only an indirect solution
UBI means every single person of a population, where as pension is needed for a select demographic
Kind like our social security system in the states
near glen
basically the idea is remove all welfare programs, and instead give everybody enough to live, without all the waste that bureaucracy entrails
pure jetty
See that's just plain dumb
Because you'd need to put insane price controls/regulations on the private sector to ensure the cost of living doesn't increase
Price controls suck
And regulations are used in welfare anyway
near glen
well a huge percentage wouldn't actually have much more money?
pure jetty
What do you mean?
near glen
no, because it replaces existing welfare systems
pure jetty
Yeah that's another thing that's just wrong about UBI, it's not means tested
You replace a means tested system like welfare and replace it with a exponentially more expensive universal one
near glen
so the million on unemployment, students, pensions and whatever else we currently cover, those don't have much more money
faint radish
looks like ~20% of US population use welfare
pure jetty
It's so much fucking cheaper (let alone politically possible) to run means tested programs, I don't understand some people's hatred for them
near glen
our welfare system sucks tho
here in germany, the unemployment stuff pushes you down a spiral. they put you in useless programms and if you don't go, your money gets cut for example
just because when you are in a reducation program or whatever, you aren't showing up in the unemployment statistic
pure jetty
Personally, the idea of incentivizing/helping those who are unemployed to get jobs again sounds like a vital part of unemployment
If we had that we could probably increase the amount spent on unemployment payments if we truly did end up getting people back to work quicker
near glen
if it works
pure jetty
Yeah we'd need to see if it worked
near glen
but the idea of UBI is that you remove the anxiety to survive and thus give you room to actually get your life together again
pure jetty
Right but it's also not means tested
So you're spending trillions of dollars on literal billionaires
near glen
when your brain capacity isn't wasted on "how can I manage to afford the next meal", it becomes free for actually important stuff
near glen
So you're spending trillions of dollars on literal billionaires
well that you get back with taxes, I never understood that argument
pure jetty
I'd rather make means tested programs to pay for those people's meals directly instead of giving them direct cash payments
If you cut off the middle man you also cut out profit margin of the private sector
So you can get a lot more bang for your buck for direct welfare programs
pure jetty
well that you get back with taxes, I never understood that argument
Why would you spend the money in the first place, I've never understood this argument
It is a lot less politically possible to spend a giant sum of money and then promise to get it back later then to just not spend the money in the first place
near glen
because it benefits your society as a whole
pure jetty
What is the problem with means testing
There is no reason to spend the money now and say you'll get it back later when you could just spend the same amount of money on two different things
Or hell use the money to fund the IRS or equivalent so they can go after more tax avoidance
near glen
well, the idea is that the system would be more efficient, both money wise and in the amount of brain capacity to move society forward or whatever
tax avoidance is a political problem
if globally, we all agreed on that taxing is important, avoidance would be easy to crack down
pure jetty
It would not be more efficient because you'd literally be adding a margin of error through taxes
And 100% efficient system wouldn't spend the money in the first place
There is literally no problem with spending money through means tested ways.
near glen
thats the "we have always been doing it this way argument", which blocks all innovation
like, I agree that there is a lot of wishful thinking involved, which is why we should at least investigate it more and fund studies and shit to see if this could work
but any efforts in that direction gets blocked with "but the current system works!"
with that attitude, you never have progress
pure jetty
What kind of innovation is "let's spend an exponential amount of money and give most of it to people who don't need it"
faint radish
not all change is progress
pure jetty
If you want to try giving monthly cash payments to people who actually need it whatever go ahead and try it
Maybe it'll work I don't know
near glen
not all change is progress
if it isn't, you adjust. not changing is no progress.
pure jetty
But when you don't means test programs you spend trillions of more dollars for people who don't need it
faint radish
no progress is better than going backwards
pure jetty
This isn't progressive spending this is regressive spending
faint radish
which, since it hasn't been tested as JRoy said, is unknown
pure jetty
This seems to be a huge problem in America for people who support things like Medicare for all instead of a public option
near glen
all am saying is we should test it, lol
pure jetty
The idea of improvement to systems are viewed as impossible and that we should just deconstruct the entire current system and restart again with kinds of legislation that have never been tried anywhere else in the world ever
near glen
well for medicare, you surely acknowledge that there are better systems and what the US has right now
pure jetty
Yeah totally
But the proposed Medicare for all bill in America is like one of the most extreme things ever done in the entire world in terms of Medicare
near glen
and I agree that being the first to try a new system is hard, but thats why we have scandiavia 😄
pure jetty
No other country would even be anywhere near that level
But that's the thing I don't think we should test new systems on a full scale right away
near glen
lemme get a summary of medicare for all
pure jetty
Typically how you test things as you do scales of incrementing size
near glen
ye
really small studies exist and have showed potential (they for example couldn't observe that people just wouldn#t wanna work anymore), but now we need bigger ones
ok I can see why medicare for all is extreme
pure jetty
Even if you except the extreme parts of the bill, The problem becomes one of politics
Medicare for all and a UBI are not politically popular in the United States even among Democrats
The only yes votes you'll get from it are in like plus 30 plus 40 blue districts
near glen
germanys system isn't terrible, basically everybody (and your employer) pays into public health insurance, which is highly regulated, but has a market. gov lets the baseline for both the price (percentage of your wage) and whats included, insurances can charge a small amount extra and other more stuff. thats great.
where its kinda meh is that rich people (earning above a threshold) can choose to no longer pay into public, but go private, where they aren't charged a percentage. self emplyoed people are force to go into private, teachers and other officals too. which means, you suddenly have two systems and drain the first one of money it could use. but it works alright, nobody here has to fear to go to the doctor
(I work for an insurance that offers private health insurance, lol)
if I could change the system, I would remove the private part, its unnecessary, maybe instead cap the percentage so that rich ppl don't wine too much
for extra coverage you can already get extra insurance, no matter if you in private or public
so there is really no point in this dual system
the difference to medicare for all, by my limited knowledge is that we only have a baseline covered, some copay stuff etc, and that we don't have a 200 a year limit on medicie
pure jetty
In the US the two most popular and possible solutions are two things;
a) allow Medicare (our affordable option of insurance provided by the government) to negotiate with drug companies since they are currently not allowed to do that. (Biden is currently pushing hard for this)
b) a means tested public option for insurance provided free of charge for those who cannot afford private insurance
near glen
for b), gov would have to pay everything, right?
the idea of insurance normally is that everybody pays a bit, to cover the needs of the few
lusty ibex
near glen
michael if you got nothing to contribute go away, lol
pure jetty
depends on specifics
near glen
am trying to understand
pure jetty
maybe co-pay maybe full coverage
plush crypt
in Sweden, everyone pays taxes to avoid paying basically anything
pure jetty
the likely middle ground will be a small co-pay
plush crypt
no insurance or optin necessary; break a leg and you pay like 30€
near glen
well yes, have a base line, co pay for above stuff, but all the money that gets paid out comes from the gov, since nobody pays in, right?
so suddenly its a welfare system
not a healthcare system
you spend gov money to help people pay for medical bills who couldn't otherwise
which is fine, but thats not an insurance then, so you have to fund it with taxes
pure jetty
well yes, have a base line, co pay for above stuff, but all the money that gets ...
it would be funded with increased taxes on high income folk
via increasing capital gains or other means
near glen
yeah
if you go the insurance route you can skip the, as you put it, margin of error that taxes have
pure jetty
but it would be a very low cost because most of american's insurance needs would still be coming from private insurance which is funded by their jobs
near glen
a percentage of my wage automatically gets paid into health insurance
pure jetty
since all full time jobs in the states are required to pay for health care
taxes are a fine system for funding things
it's not a system to account for the lack of means testing on spending however
what would be the best thing for us to the do in the States is better fund our IRS and reduce dumb quotas we still have
near glen
well, means testing in itself is expensive and not fuel proof
pure jetty
because the IRS in the states often doesn't have the proper funding to go after medium size fraud
and means testing isn't nearly as expensive than universal systems which makes it automatically better
near glen
is the fraud really the issue? what most big companies do is legal
which is the actual issue I would say
if we can force companies to pay taxes where the revenue was earned, and stop accepting loop holes like the whole licence thing, then we would be in a better place
pure jetty
fraud is a pretty decent issue yes
the IRS just doesn't have the money to go after rich people
the house budget committee did a write up on this
gimme a sec
near glen
ah ok
near glen
well, how is this an issue then, you can give them more budget and they fund themselves, lol
pure jetty
yeah lmao
near glen
and when they done tackling all the fraud, they can think of ways to close the loop holes
pure jetty
yeah, the ways big companies currently avoid taxes is tough
because if you just 100% close the loopholes they use, you also cut off the legit uses of said loophole
near glen
to my surprise amazon actually paid 270m euro on their 20b income in germany
near glen
because if you just 100% close the loopholes they use, you also cut off the legi...
such as?
pure jetty
well like the patent shit apple uses
near glen
well, the EU is actively trying to solve stuff, but iirc they lost the case against apple which is really dum
pure jetty
there may be a case where you want'd to claim a patent license as a legit cut to profit
near glen
well, I understand that its difficult, the revenue apple generates for example in germany, the work for that mostly was done outside of germany, so how do you tax that
but right now, we kinda tax it at all which is dum
so maybe allow the license shit, but cap it as a percentage, require some stuff to be paid here and allow some stuff to be taxes where the patent was created
(which still isn't ireland....)
idk, am clearly not studied in economics
pure jetty
it's tough, I don't have a clear cut answer for you either
I don't know the solution that doesn't screw over other people
near glen
if we had a global minimum tax stuff like this would be much less of an issue :/
maybe EU can set an example for that, but ireland and luxemburg would veto that, so we first gotta turn the EU into a democracy and remove the veto power from member states and give the parliament more power, but thats a whole different topic that I don't wanna go into today, lol, I think am gonna watch deadpool now cause I watched the free guy trailer but non of my friends wanted to go to the cinema today
dusky raft
pretty much make europe another united states
foggy fern
France and Germany want to, just gotta convince the rest
dusky raft
well given that those two are pretty much where the EU pretty much do their stuff, its not really surprising that they both want to become more of a US but with a much larger federal government.
@foggy fern if it does go through, at least the germans by then can claim they unified Europe one way or another.
foggy fern
oof
near glen
pretty much make europe another united states
Sure, I wanna have an actually working voting system with more than two parties tho please, lol
drifting arch
What is this trump reinstated shit 
deep ravine
AI isn't going to replace jobs in our lifetimes
Not too long ago, factory worker was the most common job. Automation (not ai) has already replaced that job. The most common job in America today is a trucker, if I remember correctly.
Completely autonomous cars exist today. I would be surprised if that same technology isn’t applied to truckers in a relatively short amount of time. Granted, truckers will not lose their jobs overnight, but it won’t be long before a few self driving trailers are used.
mystic ermine
I mean, biggest issue is gonna be regulation and actually proving it
I'd say that we're still a good decade or so before that's a thing
foggy fern
Self driving tractors on the highways is probably the easiest self driving problem to solve too
Who cares if it adds $100k to the cost of the vehicle if you can just have it park itself at a truck stop and have a driver hop in for the in town part of the trip, you'll make that money back in no time
And of course highways driving is the least complicated driving there is, our cars already mostly handle that for us now, cruise control systems can do lane holding, adjust speed to the flow of traffic, and some will even pass for you
pure jetty
Not too long ago, factory worker was the most common job. Automation (not ai) ha...
This is decades out and there's no evidence that markets wouldn't find any replacement for them
A huge chunk of that is also due to regulatory approval
foggy fern
keen swift
Not very surprising though, its Mississippi...
"consider other options", how about get the vaccine thats been available for months
shy gulch
Honestly they should just start handing out money to people for getting vaccinated
Or incentivize them somehow
Lock the anti-vaxer rednecks out of Walmart until they get the vaccine
They will loose their shit
mystic ermine
All that really does is propell the narriative that big brother is up to no good and wants to jab them with poison
I'm somewhat of a sorta like, mismash between right leaning being with some libertarian and some left leaning values, (god, now I want some mash and beans)
what that means is that I'm often kinda ostricised towards the right and so, I get to see some of the insanity of the circles we have on our side of politics, and, it's concerning af, and the rhetoric being propelled along with the timeline of events over the past god knows how long really stirs the pot with the insane bunch
I held out for a good chunk of time with the vaccine and have only had the first dose thus far, I was really sus on having it because of my health issues and was severely concerned with how rushed the push out of it was and was severely concerned with all the stuff going on with crap like covid passports, I got it as the general concensus for my suspected illness is that most are fine and have moderate side effects, there is a % of people who end up bed bound for like, a few months, but, most people suffered much less and, "am stuck inside anyways"
shy gulch
End of the day the skepticism has come from how politicized the issue has been. Fox News and other media in-sighting fear and unnecessary caution into what is a scientifically and medically sound solution to COVID and its recovery.
mystic ermine
There are risks from the vaccine
shy gulch
Ofc
mystic ermine
The fact that people are shut down on trying to discuss their fears really does not help the situation at all
shy gulch
Ask a doctor and if there is no problem get the vaccine
the people administering the vaccine are not trying to harm you
neither is your doctor or the medical community
People will smoke cigs and vape 24hours a day but when it comes to the vaccine they are skeptical. They will consume shitty junk food and products that have been laced with addictive ingredients from large corporations but are skeptical of the vaccine and the role the government has played in encouraging it.
mystic ermine
people know the risks associted with that stuff
shy gulch
I dont think they entirely do lol
mystic ermine
people are sus when it's gone back and forth between politicians saying that they won't take it to then saying that anybody who doesn't take it is basically a murderer, as well as the general shutting down of people who have concerns or wanna ask about the side-effects of a vaccine or question the deaths which have resulted from it
I mean, I know that the news has defo made the issues from the vaccine seem much more of an issue than they actually are too
this is a hyper politicised issue at a hyper politicised time around a hyper politicised solution
mystic ermine
and at a time when the general trust in many of these institutions has collapsed massively over the past several dozen years
shy gulch
Definitely a negative redirect from the left and pro-vaxers towards people questioning getting the vaccine. If people have concerns they should be convinced to ask their doctor.
The spread of misinformation is definitely not helping getting the population vaccinated
My friends who have previously been pretty moderate towards politics and who have had faith in science and vaccines are now buying into some of this misinformation
My school is already having to start back up restrictions with cases starting to rise
keen swift
Britain gets astrazeneca right?
faint radish
Well… The Afghan pres and VP left the country
Taliban in “talks” to take over the administration of the country
What a shitshow… this has to be one of the most expensive wastes of money and lives ever
BUT, I don’t think there will be any political downside to doing it now, at least for Biden. The American people haven’t shown interest in the Middle East for a while now, this will get attention and then fade away in less than a month.
And I’m not sure the whole “Taliban taking over” was ever avoidable, at least at this point in time, maybe it could’ve been slowed, but for the people living there, what other outcome could there have been that still included the US leaving
woven reef
The war in my opinion wasn’t going anywhere, and never really was. It’s been going on for too long. However there were better ways of pulling ourselves out of the war than just abandoning the Afghan government.
mystic ermine
I mean, Q is, what's the end game, we fight a 2000 year war?
I was hearing some stuff that apparently the talibans and the afghans, as part of the withdrawl agreement, where supposed to have some form of "lets start discussing stuff" which never happened
apparently there was a lot more planned than just "we disappear one day", I thought that afgans army where supposed to be much more equiped than they where, etc
faint radish
The war in my opinion wasn’t going anywhere, and never really was. It’s been goi...
well, I am curious, what better ways were there? Ones that didnt involve wasting even more money
shy gulch
Banteng merah
woven reef
I’m not really sure that there’s any way to not waste more money I feel like they could’ve done more to actually start discussions between the Afghan government and the taliban instead of just making an honor agreement to “start discussions”
tough cedar
The fact that people are shut down on trying to discuss their fears really does ...
They are shut down b/c they are almost never arguing in good faith, and people don't want to hear it anymore
mystic ermine
shutting down such convo's has been the general thing for months, I feel that at every step people have literally compounded these people into a corner of concern and fear, heck, there is even now a black market for vaccine passports now due to all the hype which has been stirred up on them, I mean, at this point, I got no idea, maybe they're too far gone, but, the general stance to just shut people down is, imho, a huge massive contributor towards this hell hole
deep ravine
Most of my family is more right leaning then left, but most of us have the vaccine.
There is a small part of our family who refused to go get a vaccine. I asked them why they thought this way, and they weren't even scared of the side effects. For them, the issue was too political to get the vaccine.
This sounds weird but that part of my family are pretty secluded from the rest of the world, and they are skeptical of the government.
dusky raft
I think its more so as a form of protest than actual anti-vax delusions
tough cedar
form of protest in what way?
dusky raft
@tough cedar being told by the government to go take the vaccine, nevermind passports
mystic ermine
