All the CDC can do is give guidance to the states
#politics
foggy fern
keen swift
No they didn’t, trump ignored fauci
warm ibex
are you trolling
keen swift
Why is China everything?
warm ibex
trump supporters need a good scapegoat
keen swift
How does that have to do whith anything?
foggy fern
How else can you always be the victim?
keen swift
If chinas or the us economy goes down, they both do
pure jetty
he stopped pipelines that weren't finished?
are you brain dead
tell me how that has anything to do with gas prices
pure jetty
tell me how shutting down a non operational oil pipeline causes gas prices to increase
tell me how shutting down a non operational oil pipeline causes gas prices to increase
foggy fern
Did you just lump car mechanics in with the oil industry?
pure jetty
tell me how shutting down a non operational oil pipeline causes gas prices to increase
tell me how shutting down a non operational oil pipeline causes gas prices to increase
keen swift
We should invest in nuclear power in my opinion instead of foccil fuels
foggy fern
I still don't understand why the Keystone XL pipeline couldn't just go another 100 miles east
pure jetty
man you're such a weasel
foggy fern
They insisted on going through the aquifer because it was the cheapest option
keen swift
What had he done wrong?
pure jetty
still can't give any reason :(((
foggy fern
afaik we've mostly just been following trends from when Trump was in office
Gas prices and inflation are on the same path they were at the end of 2020
keen swift
What source?
pure jetty
inflation is targeted for 2% each year and maintained by the fed
we haven't surpassed that
gas prices don't have shit to do with the president
keen swift
Very powerful source"outside"
warm ibex
What source?
probably alex jones podcast
pure jetty
not even covid
foggy fern
The prices for a lot of things are kind of crazy right now due to the supply chain getting fucked sideways
keen swift
Do you just blame biden for everything wrong?
foggy fern
We'll have to wait and see if they go back down or not
Some things are normal, some things got cheaper, some things got a little more expensive, some things are 10x the price and hard to find
keen swift
because trump fucked it over
foggy fern
2020 gas and food were cheap because the demand went down
keen swift
Trumps also anti LGBTQ soo he does NOT have my support...
foggy fern
2021 things are opening back up and demand is going up but the supply chain hasn't recovered yet
keen swift
He banned Trans people from the millitary
waving a rainbow flag does not make you pro LGBTQ, your actions do
shut vine
Trump was the first person to come out in support of LGBTQ+ in a presidential campaign
Which is interesting
foggy fern
I like how they forgot the S on the flag and had to try to squeeze it in
I never noticed that before
warm ibex
it looks like LGBT to the power S lol
keen swift
Lol
pure jetty
!ban @stuck roost Transphobia, Please spread conspiracies elsewhere
feral hearthBOT
:raised_hands: Banned Denyell#2004 (Transphobia, Please spread conspiracies elsewhere) [2 total infractions] -- Joshie#0001.
warm ibex
keen swift
Rip
pure jetty
knew they'd say some dumb shit
keen swift
Jroy, did you just have that ready just waiting for him to say that lol
pure jetty
yes
foggy fern
I suspect a lot of the prices that are fucked right now will never go back down, btw
keen swift
and thats why you always check your sources
foggy fern
So CPI will go up whether the fed tries to control it or not
pure jetty
possibly
keen swift
I think that every country needs to invest into Nuclear power
pure jetty
yeah it's pretty cool
foggy fern
Nuclear would have been a great investment 20 years ago
I don't know that it makes sense now
pure jetty
Improving battery tech should be a goal too
foggy fern
By the time you finish renewables will probably make it not worth turning on
keen swift
Bill gates had a great design for a nuclear powerplant
pure jetty
Density mostly
keen swift
before the trade war
foggy fern
Battery density is only needed for mobile/handheld devices
Doesn't matter if you need a warehouse sized battery for the grid, we have a lot of land
pure jetty
well I mean density will matter for vehicles
planes eventually but that may be a long whole
while*
foggy fern
I suppose you want denser than lead acid batteries but state of the art LiPo is already overkill for the grid
I don't think electric planes will ever be more than toys, we'll probably want to use some kind of biofuel or fuel made from carbon capture for that
Ah yeah, batteries for cars and lawnmowers and such need density too
dusky raft
renewables are still kind of not really there, most electric grids have maybe gotten around 15-20% renewable. most being coal/oil. Nuclear is nice but because people are scared that reactors blow up.
but my point of view with renewables: if the 4 mile wide hole is not in your back yard, you dont need to worry about it.
tough cedar
damn, all the spicy political messages got removed once he started using transphobia
foggy fern
My argument against nuclear is from an economic perspective, projections suggest in 20-30 years they won't make sense economically anymore and they'd have to run longer than that to be profitable (and hell, might take 20 years just to get operational)
Then you also have the fact that uranium isn't a renewable resource and with the reactor designs we use we go through it pretty quickly
If all our power was nuclear current known uranium would only last like 20-100 years iirc
shut vine
Nuclear Fusion doesn't suffer from that problem.
foggy fern
You could go longer if you use designs that can also make weapons grade materials (they can use up more of the fuel) or if you raise electricity prices to cover the increased costs of processing uranium from less than ideal sources
I don't know if increased funding could actually get us to viable fusion faster but it's been 20 years away for 50 years now
keen swift
But we need to get something other then coal/oil and quickly
shut vine
Considering currently the state is much closer than 10 years ago I'd say so
They've managed sustained output from reactors, just yield issues really
keen swift
Nuclear is also safer, and less pollution/ravioactivity
foggy fern
shut vine
Oh yeah, fusion is safer than 3rd gen fission too.
foggy fern
This is where I got the idea for planes running on syngas from carbon capture, btw
shut vine
The issue with wind and solar is they have downtime, it's just not possible to be a 100% replacement that is still renewable
Especially with the current grids
keen swift
I think we just need to have enough renewable to buy us time so we dont destry the earth
and hopefully before oil runs out
foggy fern
Many takes on a carbon-neutral grid assume that periods of low solar and wind production will be smoothed over with gas generators using carbon capture and storage. But this analysis suggests that any remaining gas plants simply won't run often enough to provide an economic justification for the carbon-capture hardware.
Instead, gas plants will simply dump their carbon emissions into the sky. This ends up being carbon neutral because we'll still need some liquid fuels for things like air travel, and we'll make these with carbon pulled back out of the atmosphere, combined with hydrogen produced from water during periods of excess renewable supply.
This is for a zero emissions target, not a fully renewable one
Going entirely renewable actually forces much higher levels of carbon capture to ensure that fuel needs could be met without any fossil fuels. And going net negative involves a variety of carbon capture and biofuels, with substantial land use as a result of the latter.
keen swift
thats a pretty smart idea
foggy fern
This is a "go wherever the numbers takes us" study instead of one where you set a goal like 100% solar/wind and then figure out what's needed to get there
It just also has a bunch of variants with different constraints on it like minimizing land use, fully renewable, net negative, etc
pure jetty
we only ban for violations of or community guidelines
including Transphobia, racism, etc
warm ibex
that guy was probably a troll anyway
there's no way you believe in good faith that china and dr. fauci collaborated to create the coronavirus lol
soft reef
His emails would say otherwise but I'm not in this server for politics
quiet pelican
quiet pelican
yes, that is the point
dark crystal
If they don't want to see what is in <#738890587721302097> then they wouldn't cl...
congratulations, you discovered the entire point of having different channels for things
tropic sundial
🤯
warm ibex
loud flax
after voting to be a free and open space for people to talk?
i heard about that stuff
decentralized management
plush crypt
*free and open unless it's criticism of freenode management
near glen
Idk why ppl still follow the freenode crap
It was dead the second everybody left and the management went rouge
Sucks to loose it, but we gotta move on
daring locust
cuz it's funny ngl
keen swift
Does anyone here celebrate VE/VJ day, and what kind of stuff do you do to celebrate?
mystic ermine
over in the UK i recall celebrating it in primary school but not much else
glossy sandal
I remember talking about it in school but not really celebrate it
mystic ermine
Yea, I recall celebrating it like once but I think it was an anniversary of it like the 50th
near glen
Mind explaining what VE/VJ is?
near glen
Oh we totally celebrate that in germany 😂
mystic ermine
it's celebrated in the UK kinda mixed, I've not celebrated it in years or seen anybody experience it, but, apparently they do over here still
another excuse to drink all day? 😛
near glen
Tbh, all military holidays and stuff are dum
glossy sandal
Outside of veterans and memorial day yes
near glen
Both aren't a thing here either
We only have the christian day where you celebrate the dead
glossy sandal
Basically same thing, memorial day for remembering the fallen and veterans to appreciate the active duty
near glen
That's not a thing here, we don't give a shit about our military
mystic ermine
We celebrate our military but gov don't really give a shit about them
near glen
We don't even give them money for proper equipment 😂
mystic ermine
But, we seperate the military from the government as such
glossy sandal
Well I mean no one actually does anything besides have a cook out usually anyways
mystic ermine
We don't blame the military itself for going places the government sent them for example
But, we do respect them, especially the older generation as they're the reason we're still speaking english
near glen
I don't think the Nazis ever would have been able to invade the islands
glossy sandal
If they did before trying to split their war with russia they probably would've just not easily
foggy fern
How is veteran's day for active duty? They aren't vets yet if they're active duty 😛
Every Sunday is worship the military day for like half the year, NFL games
glossy sandal
Bad wording but veterans are all active and inactive military
foggy fern
You're right, we do use the day for things other than vets so the name doesn't make sense
But yeah, most of these are just excuses to get drunk and fire up the grill
keen swift
We don't even give them money for proper equipment 😂
Germany has the seventh best funded millitary in the world with 52.8 Billion or 1.4% GDP
mystic ermine
most of that's probably maintaing old stock + forces
restive seal
after voting to be a free and open space for people to talk?
Voting? It was a takeover through legal force. 😄
near glen
Germany has the seventh best funded millitary in the world with 52.8 Billion or ...
And yet we got guns that can't shoot straight in the heat, helicopters that can't fly and tanks that can't drive
So yes, most of our military is just an unemployment programm for ppl we failed to integrate into our society
keen swift
You must have alot of faith in your countries national defence
foggy fern
Unless they piss the US off they just have to be good enough to last until the US bombs the shit out of whoever attacked 😛
We probably have more bombs than they have bullets
keen swift
And more debt lol
But Germany is pacifist, so I guess they dont need a strong military, and theres also the rest of nato
Is Germany generally left or right leaning?
foggy fern
Their center-right party is in charge but compared to the US they're pretty left leaning
Their center-right party probably lands somewhere in the middle of the Democrats 😛
keen swift
Im used to Australia where pretty much everything is left leaning 😆
But When I moved(to America) its SOOO different
foggy fern
Is it? I was under the impression Australia was closer to the US as far as that goes
keen swift
Australia is pretty left leaning, look at labor/liberal, there the parties in power https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Australia
There is also a No 5G party😆
foggy fern
Oh, I thought it was Liberal/National in charge
keen swift
National has about 5 seats acoring to the wiki
foggy fern
Yeah but they're in the coalition that's in power, aren't they?
Plus that Liberal party looks like it's a combination of libertarians and neo-libs, not left leaning
keen swift
they only have 16 mps tho
foggy fern
Doesn't matter, they get to have a say and Labor doesn't, if it works like other parliamentary systems
Which would make it a right-leaning government
keen swift
idk, im just talking from my personal experiance
wdym, labor has a big say, they have 68 of the mps
then liberal with 60
foggy fern
Yeah but that only matters if Liberal/National can't get all their votes whipped
Otherwise those two combined can just pass whatever they want
keen swift
but labor and liberal are the two in power, and they are both lefter leaning parties
foggy fern
Liberal is not a left leaning party
In some parts of Australia there isn't even a Liberal/National split, they joined together in one party
And Labor isn't in power, Liberal/National is
keen swift
ok, well thats a different part from where I grew up in
foggy fern
Labor has a lot of seats so doing things at least some of them agree to makes it way easier to pass things but they aren't needed
That coalition has been the majority (in power) for the vast majority of the past 100 years
keen swift
ya, im not saying that there not in power, im just saying Australia generally, or were I grew up is more left wing then America
foggy fern
I suppose if you came from Melbourne not many places in the US would look left leaning compared to that
keen swift
im from Wa
foggy fern
That's probably similar to the coastal areas of Oregon and Washington though
Oh, yeah, Western is even more heavily Labor
keen swift
I moved from like Wa Australia to a Republican town in the U.S., So there is a massive difference in politics
foggy fern
Yeah, yikes
keen swift
So many conspiracy therists
foggy fern
I mean, just about any first world nation will feel somewhat left leaning compared to almost all of the US
Just because you would generally accept social safety nets, universal healthcare, and restrictions on gun ownership
keen swift
If you talk about gun ownership here, they start going on about how there so unsafe and they need self defence
Well in my town at least
near glen
You must have alot of faith in your countries national defence
Since when do countries use their armies for defence? Last I checked our troops were wasting time and money in some shit hole countries
At least Germans are mostly on educational missions and train local police force
But still
A friend of mine once was part of the marine, stationed infront of somalia, they had to repair the motor of an Iranian slave trader with humans in cages on board because they signaled mayday and they didn't get permission by somalia to hold then accountable
He quit once he got back home :)
keen swift
But you have to have an army, for a conflict like the Korean war, although they might not be the most productive rn
thats kinda messed up tho
near glen
Last I checked Korea is on the other side of the world
Not sure why I as an European should be concerned about Korea
keen swift
But are we supposed to stand by and let North Korea invade the south?
near glen
I mean, by that logic, why do we let ppl drown in the Mediterranean?
Or die to hunger in africa?
keen swift
Because polititions are idiots
near glen
Wars are just fueled by the industry behind it
keen swift
Im just saying that you cannot just leave your country with no army and no defence
near glen
Official position by our army is that they aren't equipped to defend our country
keen swift
Well hopefully it never comes to that
keen swift
"German soldiers sometimes have to rely on civilian helicopters to transport them around in Afghanistan" That gives me alot of hope for the world
keen swift
I thought Germany was Pasifist
mystic ermine
as a country you're still expected to be able to defend yourself
near glen
The dum 20 year Afghanistan mission was only for training of locals
mystic ermine
as well as the other sorta like groups of such
near glen
That was such a fucking waste of time and resources
"At the end of the year six out of six submarines were not in use. At times, not one of the 14 Airbus A-400M could fly"
Can't go to war if you don't have submarines or transport planes 
keen swift
Lol
So the US has to big of a millitray for its budget and Germany has a crap millitary for its budget
near glen
As I said, our military is mostly an unemployment programm
keen swift
And our government doesn't take care of our millitary
stoic sparrow
What countries are yall from
near glen
Why military is a waste of resources
keen swift
How bad had covid hit Germany?
keen swift
oh ya healthcare is crap in the us
near glen
35k currently infected, not bad
keen swift
You first have to Get an Affordable plan, then find a docter thats taking new patients, then see if your healthcare allows for that docter, where in Australia you can get any docter with your healthcare plan
keen swift
Is that like Canadas?
near glen
And you automatically have healthcare
keen swift
That sounds great
near glen
You still get to choose a company tho
And if you earn enough, you get to buy out of the universal system and use the fully private system
keen swift
im guessing the private is better?
What are the gun ownership laws like there in Germany?
near glen
Tightly controlled of course
But there is like no desire to have one anyways
Unless you do it for sport or job
keen swift
So a system that makes sence
stoic sparrow
You also have to account for peoples personal health. Like in america were generally much more obese and that is a huge part of infection and mortality rates
near glen
Well, we got a society that encourages good health, lol
faint radish
MOAR MICS!!!
stoic sparrow
Comparing the systems of two countries like the usa and germany is difficult because of how different the people and culture is
near glen
Our culture is way older and more mature I guess
Plus we deal with our past way different
America is basically still traumatized by the whole independence war and stuff f
And still hasnt overcome slavery
faint radish
???
stoic sparrow
Ok dude
keen swift
We have a long way to overcome that last one
stoic sparrow
Europe peaked in the early 20th century
keen swift
Australia/Europe has a murder rate of 0.95 per capita, the U.S. has one of 5-7, I feel alot safer in one
Australia/Europe also regulate gun ownership
stoic sparrow
There are two types of people in america. People who accept the sins of the past and want to move on and live their lives and treat people fairly. And there are people who want to shame others because of their skin color and make reparations for actions they have never committed
faint radish
Our culture is way older and more mature I guess
A piece of paper as the source for your rights = “more mature” ig
near glen
Mmh what do you mean by that?
Our constitution had way more revisions, we had the chance to redo it from scratch multiple times and learn from past mistakes
The US is still stuck with their initial draft
stoic sparrow
Venezuela has massive gun control and a monstrously high murder rate
near glen
Venezuela has massive gun control and a monstrously high murder rate
Is that the bar america measures itself again? Fucking Venezuela?
keen swift
that statistic is just a generalisation of the whole of Europe
pure jetty
The US's constitution is not made to change often to prevent party control over it
faint radish
Yeah, I think it’s a good feature not a bug.
mystic ermine
aren't some of the contries which have high gun ownership also some of the countries with less gun crime?
stoic sparrow
Just an example
keen swift
It stops one party from controlling, but also stops new ideas
mystic ermine
It's not really a gun issue, it's an inner city issue, afaik
pure jetty
Trade off of sorts
stable sable
The US's constitution is not made to change often to prevent party control over ...
whats sad is that it prevents necesary changing with the times or additions that should be made from being made but yes party control is an issue
stoic sparrow
It's not really a gun issue, it's an inner city issue, afaik
Very true
mystic ermine
poor education, poor opportunities
faint radish
new ideas can be bad ideas. And if adopted quickly, can be bad.
And yeah, that’s a trade off for sure
near glen
Well, the fundamental flaw in the American system is that you only have two parties since coalitions are impossible
Before that isn't tackled, I don't have much hope for American society as a whole
foggy fern
I seem to remember there being something about HFCS outside of the US
near glen
Because it will always be a divide between two sides
pure jetty
There isn't much a benefit to third parties at least in America
foggy fern
Some regulations the EU at least had that made it less of a thing
pure jetty
If anything less would probably get done with 3rd parties
foggy fern
HFCS is a big reason why America has an obesity problem
foggy fern
I think there were restrictions on soda too so some of the more popular sodas in the US are sold as energy drinks there and aren't available in the same places
stoic sparrow
Most or atleast alot of americans font just vote straight party lines
stable sable
more options would be better because the parties have just devolved into pandering to their respective sides
mystic ermine
it's why stuff like the smaller parties are often just fucked
stable sable
and you have wildly differing views within a party
pure jetty
I mean if you thinking about it, the government would care about health a lot if they started paying for it
foggy fern
Everyone everywhere just votes straight party line 😛
Difference is there are more parties in other systems
mystic ermine
"This is not the year to vote for X, we've gotta get Y into office so that we can get Z out of office" or whatever
near glen
Everyone everywhere just votes straight party line 😛
No there are always huge movements between parties, since many ppl vote on topics and which party best represents their option on their most important topics
stoic sparrow
Just like there were alot of republicans who voted biden this year
pure jetty
people usually have make or break issues they vote for
stoic sparrow
Yep
pure jetty
and yeah trump scared a majority of republicans off
well not majority
you know what I mean
stoic sparrow
Yeah
foggy fern
No there are always huge movements between parties, since many ppl vote on topic...
Sure but if you switch to voting for a different party this time for some issue are you going to only do that for one seat and vote another party for everything else?
stoic sparrow
Like no matter your politics. You can agree he wouldve won if he kept his mouth shut sometimes
stable sable
Sure but if you switch to voting for a different party this time for some issue ...
thats perfectly reasonable
but if you are going to vote across the line you prolly would do it more than once
and be more of a centrist
foggy fern
Clearly some people must do it otherwise you wouldn't have Joe Manchin or Jon Tester as US Senators
stoic sparrow
I think about 60% of americans are pretty moderate
keen swift
I cant believe the people who are like”I vote for this party, everyone on that one is evil”
foggy fern
But I think it's much more likely you decide to vote R this time so vote straight R
mystic ermine
I mean, it's the horrors of practically everything being partisan
and seemingly very few care to actually dig into the issues bar what the politicians preach as "we have the answers"
foggy fern
I don't think all Republicans are evil, just misguided 😛
near glen
Sure but if you switch to voting for a different party this time for some issue ...
We got a vote for federal parliment coming up, which will then elect a new chancellor.
What you do is have one vote for a party, and one vote for a person from your district. The person with the most votes form your district goes to parliment, plus the parties send ppl based on their overall share of votes for the party.
That way you can vote for a person you like the policies, but vote for another party in the same vote
foggy fern
Even if I agree with some of their policy positions they're so wrong on so much I couldn't vote for them
stoic sparrow
Like which?
foggy fern
Oh yeah, I forgot Germany has the best voting system so doesn't have this issue so much 😛
Which do I agree with or which are they wrong on?
near glen
Oh our voting system is far from perfect, we need stupid overhang mandates that blow up the size of our parliment and shit
pure jetty
Their abortion stance sucks too
keen swift
Are you pro or anti abortion?
foggy fern
The general idea of economic protectionism makes some sense to me, tariffs where other countries are subsidizing their industry and/or subsidies to keep ours competitive sound good. Not for every industry but essentials for keeping the country and military running
near glen
Who are you to tell others what to do with their body, america is the land of the free, right?
faint radish
abortion in the US should be pretty clear. 60% of the country thinks abortion in the first trimester is legal, but only 28% think it should be legal after that
keen swift
But the freedom to kill a baby?
near glen
It's not killing a baby in the first trimester
stoic sparrow
The stance of abortion is just a debate as to whether an unborn child is a life
foggy fern
Tariffs I'd be okay with every time another country is subsidizing their industry to tilt the scales, subsidies only for critical things
It doesn't even matter if you think that's a life/person/etc
Bodily autonomy means a woman should have the right to have it removed from them
faint radish
like, only 28% think its OK in the 2nd trimester and only 13% think its OK during the 3rd timester
keen swift
Abortion is a VERY complex topic
near glen
Abortion in Germany is pretty fucked too. We allow it in the first 12 or 14 weeks or whatever, but doctors can't say on their website that they offer abortions or what methods they offer cause that would be advertising
stoic sparrow
It doesn't even matter if you think that's a life/person/etc
What
near glen
It's such a stupid law
foggy fern
I'm willing to compromise on only allowing it before viability (and that's what the Supreme Court ruling on it is too) for practical reasons but philosophically it should be okay to remove the fetus at any point
stoic sparrow
If you think its a life than removing it is morrally wrong
foggy fern
If they can survive outside the womb cool, someone else handle that
near glen
It's first trimester in germany, just checked, after that only for medial conditions
foggy fern
@stoic sparrow if I hooked you up to someone with failing kidneys to act as a human dialysis machine and you removing yourself from them would kill them, should you be allowed to do so?
stoic sparrow
So if the baby isnt viable like a day before birth youd be ok with killing it
foggy fern
You didn't agree to be hooked up, I drugged you and did it
stoic sparrow
Are you saying in an instance where the baby threatens the mothers life?
foggy fern
No, your life isn't threatened, you just have to be stuck to this person until they make it to the top of the transplant list
near glen
Kek, in Nazi germany you could abort whenever, especially if you are Jewish, but it was heavily punished if you were Aryan
keen swift
I belive that you should not abort a baby, but if it is a medical case then obviously so, but what if it is a case of rape, the mother never chose to have the baby, but the baby still has a life and your still killing it
stoic sparrow
But thats just a hypothetical
foggy fern
It's the same thing
near glen
This whole abortion discussion is way to emotional. It's scientifically proven that it's not life in the first trimester, so there shouldn't even be a need for discussion on that.
foggy fern
Just because that person can't survive without being connected to you doesn't mean you should be forced to stay connected to them
foggy fern
This whole abortion discussion is way to emotional. It's scientifically proven t...
Well, it's obviously life, just not sapient
near glen
Yeah that's what I meant
mystic ermine
I'm conflicted on abortions
foggy fern
Sentient? I always mix those up
stoic sparrow
Monke
mystic ermine
I don't agree with them but I mean, I've never been in a situtation to feel that it's needed
mystic ermine
But, I don't see me not being entirely happy with them to be a reason to prevent others from getting them, especially given our adoption agencies are always looking for parents and I question the moral in allowing children to be born into such broken situations
near glen
Without aborting, their live would have been ruined
foggy fern
The Supreme Court put the limits on abortion at viability but you can't just go get a C-section done at 23 weeks and leave the baby in the NICU until they're ready to be put up for adoption
near glen
Fun fact, in both cases the guys used condoms and the girls took the pill
foggy fern
Well, maybe if you had a ton of money you could get a doctor to agree to that but probably not, they'd likely lose their license
mystic ermine
oh god, my mate was telling me of this fun story
his mate, first time with a girl, they're at it and they hear a popping noise
9 months later
near glen
I had a popped condom before, you just go to the pharmacy, buy a special pill (idk what the English term is, translations would be "the pill after" or smth), the gal will feel shit for a day (think period, but worse) and it's all good
stoic sparrow
Shouldnt yall be programming this software?
foggy fern
I get it though, they're doing a balancing test between bodily autonomy and the life of the fetus and decided the point where they balance out is viability
mystic ermine
We're not paid to do it, so, you know
foggy fern
Still seems shitty though that just because millions of dollars of medical care can push the viability date back a week everyone loses a week of time to get an abortion
stoic sparrow
What
rich sun
Shouldnt yall be programming this software?
ah, yes, because volunteers have no right to talk outside of their volunteer work
how dare y'all
foggy fern
The law of the land doesn't have a fixed cut off date for abortions
It's based on viability, the point in time at which it's more likely than not a fetus would survive outside the womb
stoic sparrow
Im just commenting
molten forge
Shouldnt yall be programming this software?
foggy fern
This case overturned Roe v Wade 30 years ago and it seems like no one noticed
Well, it didn't overturn the "abortions are legal" part but it changed everything else about them
dark crystal
I don't think the question of whether it has life or not even matters
if it's using your body to survive then it is a parasite
it's your choice to take it out or not
foggy fern
lol, I just made that same argument
dark crystal
yeah perhaps i didn't scroll up that much
pure jetty
warm ibex
doesn't show that
restive seal
From your image:
foggy fern
US has control over .com so it probably just hasn't propagated yet?
foggy fern
Give it however long it takes your ISP and/or OS to ignore TTLs and update their cache
It's usually instant to minutes but for some ISPs it's up to 24 hours
That's going to hurt https://twitter.com/CalMatters/status/1407348991579275270
This is probably going to end up being another stupid thing like the flood insurance program where it's really just the government paying for people to be able to live in dumb areas where people shouldn't live
soft reef
L
shut vine
You didn't agree to be hooked up, I drugged you and did it
The equivalent to what you suggest here is rape. Not the same thing as consensual sex and cannot be compared to it.
foggy fern
That line of argument leads to you saying carrying a child is punishment for women wanting to have sex
You might not think that's what you're saying but it is
shut vine
Adults are held accountable for the activities they engage in consensually. i.e. if you hang around with people who you know have robbed banks in the past, and they ask you to drive them to a bank, and they put balaclavas on, get out, and ask you to keep it running, you're accountable as an accomplice for any criminal acts committed.
Incorrect. It's saying that if you make a choice that has consequences, then you have to live with those consequences.
A person should not be able to make bad decisions and then just hit reset at the cost of someone else's life. The equivalent situation to what you suggested, is that you consent to being hooked up, and knowing if you decide to leave that the person will certainly and immediately die. Then you decide to leave.
soft reef
Abortion is a VERY complex topic
It’s just child murder, anyone who tries to justify it is coping or has no real experience with it
lmao
shut vine
That line of argument leads to you saying carrying a child is punishment for wom...
For the record, it has never lead me to say that. Hence that's objectively false.
keen swift
Adults are held accountable for the activities they engage in consensually. i.e....
I agree with you 100%
dusky raft
@foggy fern ye, lets build right next to the ocean, hopefully no hurricane doesnt take out my basement
you end up having some really nice houses on ugly as fuck concrete blocks
shut vine
Shouldn't we just get the tax payer to bail you out of that bad decision if you make it?
soft reef
Shouldn't we just get the tax payer to bail you out of that bad decision if you ...
why should the tax payer bail you out
dusky raft
at the moment, the weed business in california is getting a nice $100 million dollar care package because of government mismanagement
brazen thistle
weed ❤️
shut vine
It's an industry too big to fail though /s
dusky raft
apparently the california government bit too much it can chew, because many businesses havent upgraded their license to operate
shut vine
So they're hamstringing the growers/producers/retailers with environmental and tax policy that those individuals probably voted for, and using the money from other people who voted for it to pay them to fix the issue they caused.
dusky raft
pretty much
smoky pollen
woven yoke
Same
near glen
Stay ontopic please.
near glen
Lmao UEFA is such a troll company
First they investigate germanies goalee for wearing a rainbow colored arm wrests
Drop it once public noticed it
Saying it's not political, but human decency and a sign of respect
Then we wanna light up the arena in rainbow colors as a sigh of human decency and respect for the ppl that suffer under the homophobic Hungarian government
UEFA denies because suddenly the rainbow flag is political again
Today they tweet again that the rainbow flag is no political and change their icon on Twitter to a rainbow flag, but still don't allow the stadium to be lit in those colors
They say it's their core values, but as soon as some authoritarian homophobic government comes along and complains they suddenly forget that fact?
urban vector
"the rainbow is not a political symbol, it's a political symbol indicating support for a diverse and inclusive society"
you couldn't make this shit up haha
near glen
Like, you can see the internal conflict that's going on there
Money from dictators vs public opinion
Especially since I think if they can't hold the finale in the UK, they wanna use hungary as the next best thing
(the whole UK situation is a whole other shit show, let's cram 60k ppl into a stadium (75% capacity) when the pandemic is getting worse daily in the UK 😂 )
Meanwhile on Twitter this picture is going viral 🤣
(that's victor orban, the hungarian homophobic dictator)
Twitter
(video)
opal moat
Twitter
blazing junco
https://twitter.com/UEFA/status/1407652489101557766?s=19
In my eyes this is worse than no statement at all from them lol
They're basically saying "Look, We hear you. We just don't care"
near glen
Or like, here, we have a rainbow logo now, now shut the fuck up
In related news: these are the countries we need to kick out of the EU cause they no longer represent our values
Sorry aurora
blazing junco
@torn wadi thoughts?
near glen
Well, am sorry, but you voted, don't complain to me, complain to your gov
loud flax
well you ought to assert your moral dominance as well then, stick head out window and put them on blast
lol
blazing junco
Don't think that's a good idea
loud flax
nah, not a good idea
blazing junco
Yeah no not if you value your head
Maybe in an armored car or something
The map up there is pretty bad but it's not unexpected
loud flax
man, i'm kinda starting to get sick of this inclusion push tbh, where does it end?
should men and women occupy the same bathrooms, men and womens sports merge?
blazing junco
That's not what it's about here
torn wadi
<@!219443401974611970> thoughts?
Many bro.
torn wadi
All kinds bro.
near glen
well you ought to assert your moral dominance as well then, stick head out windo...
It's not moral dominance when it's literally a human right
Theses are the values the EU is build upon
If you no longer agree, gtfo
Worth reading https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/eu-in-brief_en
loud flax
hm
blazing junco
If you no longer agree, gtfo
This is how you get something like the Warsaw Pact
loud flax
i see, sorta like how we Americans don't want to lose our constitutional grounding and subvert the values the country was founded on
blazing junco
I agree with the overall message but kicking out multiple eastern nations would be bad for the EU
near glen
If some backwards thinking homophobes want to make a new pact, go for it
blazing junco
Backwards thinking as they are they have quite a bit of power in the international stage when combined as a unit
near glen
If we can't all agree to condem the actions of one state that fundamentally go against our values we agreed on, what is this union even worth anymore?
urban vector
was just gonna ask why the UK didn't vote but then i remembered 😒
this happens more often than id like to admit
near glen
The UK showed everybody it's possible to get out, so at least Hungary should get out too
Cause they don't give a shit about our values
blazing junco
But it is weird. The EU charter does talk about protection of sexual orientation and what not and that you're required to sign on it; these countries not facing repercussions means the charter doesn't mean dick
blazing junco
Though I do have to ask - were these values set in stone when the union invited these eastern countries to be apart of it?
blazing junco
If you mean founded - no, that charter seems to have been created around the year 2000; however it does seem that the bulk of these countries joined in 2004, so they'd already have known this was in the charter from the get go
There's no excuse for them to not denounce Hungary's actions lol
near glen
Even if they joined before the charter, they would have had to sign it
restive seal
man, i'm kinda starting to get sick of this inclusion push tbh, where does it en...
"sick of this inclusion push" Vector? As in, you're sick of people wanting equal rights and to be included in society? Your rights don't get taken away when more people get treated as people. And seriously, stop going on about it like it's some big conspiracy. Your bigotry is showing again.
near glen
Didn't even see that message, lmao
I can tell you where this "inclusion push" will end: when true equality is reached
torn wadi
So never?
opal moat
Mini, Austria signed as well after getting cyberbullied a lot lol
near glen
Ah good we get to keep you then aurora, for now
near glen
should men and women occupy the same bathrooms, men and womens sports merge?
Unisex bathrooms are a thing and they just work
Quite space efficient too
opal moat
you ought to assert your moral dominance as well then
I gotta agree with this sadly. A lot of people don't care about queer rights, seen by their non action on big issues, but as soon as you can show that your country is morally better than another country everyone suddenly starts to care for a day or too
near glen
I hope you know I care any day
It's just that on days like these, stuff could have actually happened, but didn't, so it's easier to point that out
opal moat
yeah obvs, but it's always nice to see people use us for showing that "our country is so much better" and then just throw us into the trash after they are done
torn wadi
Mini, Austria signed as well after getting cyberbullied a lot lol
(*) After the European Affairs Council, Italy, Greece, Austria and Cyprus decided to join the statement
torn wadi
BRO!
loud flax
"sick of this inclusion push" Vector? As in, you're sick of people wanting equal...
I operate on an objective morality, in other words my values weren't defined by me. They come from an age old book whose values have stood the test of time, interpreted from a man who died 2,000 years ago who lived a perfect life. Those values America was founded on. I'm sorry if I sound like a bigot, but when people push for something without understanding where it ends, things can go pretty badly. I believe that everyone has unalienable rights. There are clear boundaries that people should not cross, which I feel people are doing when it comes to this inclusive push. My point is, we need to be careful in the direction we head
opal moat
I sure hope you don't eat seafood or wear mixed fabrics
torn wadi
<@219443401974611970> Bro. Pinch me.
To be fair, Greece used to be filled with Bi people back before our time.
blazing junco
To be fair, Greece used to be filled with Bi people back before our time.
Yeah but those are different greeks.
loud flax
i'm actually a vegetarian
torn wadi
Also true.
blazing junco
Thank god I'm not in a balkan subreddit or discord or i'd be churned out by greeks for saying that 
torn wadi
loud flax
let me not confuse you, i believe that everyone deserves to be treated fairly
near glen
Man, if you didnt revaluate your value and views for 2000 years I got some bad bad news for ya
It's not ok anymore to punch women for example
blazing junco
That depends on the culture you inhabit.
near glen
That depends on the culture you inhabit.
They are christian
Oh and we stopped this witch burning thing
The smell got too bad ya know
blazing junco
Moral universalism is a hot topic and I'd rather not go down the path of "It's not ok to do X" when talking about the whole planet. Maybe not in your culture, but you don't see things the same way as another culture might.
near glen
But that's the thing idriz, the EU has agreed on these moral values
So if you don't agree with the values anymore, just leave
blazing junco
Oh, I'm not agreeing with Vector on that part
loud flax
religion can and does cloud peoples' vision though
opal moat
for the germans in here: https://www.der-postillon.com/2021/06/bibelverse.html
near glen
Surely we can all agree and the human rights charter?
blazing junco
And that's not set to be effective
near glen
Cause you know, most countries on earth signed that
blazing junco
Cause you know, most countries on earth signed that
Sure, but that doesn't mean imposing moral universalism on another culture is going to work.
loud flax
don't just agree about values, but try to agree on exactly why those values work
near glen
It's not imposing Moral universalim or projecting the whole culture or smth, it's just enforcing a charter you signed
blazing junco
Oh no I agree that the EU has that responsibility
I'm just saying in the context of the whole world you can't do that
opal moat
All I wanna do is visit my extended family in ethiopia and not get killed by the police when I arrive at the airport
blazing junco
Countries in the EU signed that they'd follow those values
near glen
In the context of the human rights charter you can
restive seal
I operate on an objective morality, in other words my values weren't defined by ...
Your book is an anthology with plot holes and inconsistent messaging, which was rewritten very recently to be anti-homosexuality (https://um-insight.net/perspectives/has-“homosexual”-always-been-in-the-bible/) and has been consistently used to start or later justify horrific acts throughout history. Very strange choice to base your life around.
near glen
Like, go read the first and second article of the human rights charter
blazing junco
But this is also why saying "Country X should be doing Y" doesn't sit well with me. If they signed a document saying they'd do it then they have to, but if they didn't, who are you to tell them what's morally abhorrent and not?
torn wadi
Countries in the EU signed that they'd follow those values
Remember how the EU punished Hungary for blocking immigrants?
restive seal
Maybe over 2000 years we can find improvements to make in an ancient storybook's morals, too...
loud flax
loving one's enemy, how about that, do you agree with that?
or is love only intended for people you already agree with / are your family?
blazing junco
Maybe over 2000 years we can find improvements to make in an ancient storybook's...
Who's to say what's right and wrong when it comes to improving morals?
Who's the authority on that?
opal moat
"hello country x pls don't kill people because they are trans" sounds like a reasonable statement to me
restive seal
[also the current christian bible's only been around for what, 500ish years? Plenty of changes in what books counted or not over history]
near glen
The EU commission in this case idriz
blazing junco
Mini, I've clarified I'm talking about morality in the context of the whole world in general right now
the EU has clear rights countries sign to that they have to follow
if they break them they can get fucked
near glen
Well in the context of the whole world, there is the UN human rights council
blazing junco
"hello country x pls don't kill people because they are trans" sounds like a rea...
to you and me both - not to someone in another country. See what's going on?
restive seal
Who's the authority on that?
Okay, so... society collectively. Obviously nobody's going to agree fully on values, but to claim "we cannot deviate from the past" feels goofy as heck.
loud flax
evolution puts humans as having evolved around 2 million years ago, is that right? My point is, if we did indeed evolve over that time period, why was it that during the last century we have seen more bloodshed than at any other time in history? did our morals evolve backward?
blazing junco
Okay, so... society collectively. Obviously nobody's going to agree fully on val...
...Who's "collectively"? As far as I can see there's still countries that operate on these ~2000 year old values.
opal moat
evolution puts humans as having evolved around 2 million years ago, is that righ...
honestly because today it is way easier to kill a lot of people quickly
restive seal
...Who's "collectively"? As far as I can see there's still countries that operat...
I feel you're going for some deep philosophical debate I don't have time for right now, sorry. ❤️
near glen
Nothing beats the efficiency of Nazi germany in killing
blazing junco
I feel you're going for some deep philosophical debate I don't have time for rig...
That's fine. Good talk anyway. This isn't philosophical but it's absurd to say "collectively" when you have countries who still cling to those values as their core of law
opal moat
Like how long did it take to whipe out a million people 200 years ago? probably at least a few weeks. Now you just throw a nuke and that's job done
near glen
Heck, thousands of years ago there weren't even enough humans to kill 😂
restive seal
That's fine. Good talk anyway. This isn't philosophical but it's absurd to say "...
Can't operate on a global scale, gotta go smaller and hope goodness spreads. 🤷
near glen
Oh and also, if you look back in time, its actually quite peaceful right now
restive seal
evolution puts humans as having evolved around 2 million years ago, is that righ...
Living is way easier, safer, for a large number of people than it has ever been in the past.
blazing junco
Can't operate on a global scale, gotta go smaller and hope goodness spreads. 🤷
There's no authority on morality - that's my point; morality is defined by each individual culture.
loud flax
^
near glen
Remember the crusades where idiots under the flag of some imaginary friend pillaged the middle east?
blazing junco
Is it good if moral values we perceive are good are shared with others? Sure. Should we get upset when it doesn't? No, we don't know their culture or the environment they inhabit.
near glen
These days are long past
loud flax
the only authority seems to be society at this point, save religion
near glen
Religion is no authority
loud flax
so why should we try to liberate other countries then? that's asserting moral dominance when the idea is that morals are subjective
opal moat
Should we get upset when it doesn't?
I think so yea, depending on the topic
restive seal
the only authority seems to be society at this point, save religion
and that's different from the past... how? 🤔 Perhaps the largest improvement in recent times is the slow increase in atheism.
near glen
For some ppl it's an argument, that's about it
loud flax
it is to me, and you can challenge Jesus' authority if you want
you can challenge the idea that you should love everyone, including your enemies
loud flax
well, you can still challenge the values he wanted others to have
opal moat
Jesus was probably a really cool dude tbh, but what people have made out of that religion is not cool
blazing junco
> Should we get upset when it doesn't?
I think so yea, depending on the topic
We can get upset. Doesn't mean we should attempt to change their mind, however. The best thing we can do is tell our people to avoid those people.
loud flax
that's the ideal
restive seal
Most of the stuff Jesus himself states in the bible are pretty good (other than murdering a tree for not producing fruit out of season). A lot of the crap stuff like the strong sexism (women cannot have authority over men, and such) come from the letters.
opal moat
yeah, the stuff Jesus actually does in the bible is all super nice and chill. Just everyone else isn't
blazing junco
Organized religion has always been a cancer to the name of Religion. See the whole "cleanse your sins for a heap of gold!" period of the Church or whatever.
restive seal
It's an inconsistent anthology. A collection of stories. Some hold up better than others. Some are written better than others.
opal moat
We can get upset. Doesn't mean we should attempt to change their mind, however. ...
kinda depends, tbh, if it's really something the society there want's or the people in charge want
loud flax
@blazing junco yeah indulgences should have never been a thing
near glen
Religion was never more than a tool to control the plebs
opal moat
thats not true mini
near glen
Ppl asked questions the leaders couldn't answer so they made up shit
blazing junco
kinda depends, tbh, if it's really something the society there want's or the peo...
If people want to change their own values they're free to do so. I have a problem when other people who don't understand their culture; haven't lived in it waltz in and say "this is wrong!"
opal moat
religion helps a lot of people find purpose in live, and I think that thats a good thing
near glen
religion helps a lot of people find purpose in live, and I think that thats a go...
But then by definition your purpose is a lie :/
opal moat
isn't it anyway
blazing junco
No, Religion is absolutely a tool to control people - especially in today's society. I do however believe that they're not created with the intent of controlling people.
near glen
Well, no, you can accept that there is no purpose, or think of your own purpose and find a place in the world
opal moat
but that's also usually a lie
blazing junco
Well, no, you can accept that there is no purpose, or think of your own purpose ...
Saying accept means you're awfully sure of the statement that there is no purpose.
loud flax
@blazing junco religion CAN be a tool to control people. See Scientology. I believe religion can be used for great purposes.
near glen
Well, I know the science idriz
near glen
It's hard to think about purpose once you understand the randomness of our existance
loud flax
the university I work for has done great things in the medical field. Our mission is to continue the teaching and healing ministry of Jesus Christ
near glen
Wheres the difference between the church of scientology and the Catholic church?
loud flax
based on what i understand about Scientology I find it hard to find any differences
blazing junco
It's hard to think about purpose once you understand the randomness of our exist...
It's hard to think there's no purpose when you consider everything is a pure coincidence.
opal moat
It's hard to think about purpose once you understand the randomness of our exist...
couldn't you also say that because our existence is so random and unlikely that there has to be a purpose
loud flax
at least the catholic church has a good pope now, seems pretty conservative compared to the church's history
blazing junco
And since there's no evidence of parallel universes, I'm inclined to believe there is more than one possibility to our existence.
opal moat
A yes, the good pope, that compares trans people to animals, great dude
love him
10/10
blazing junco
If there was only one shot of creating the universe, how did it so perfectly turn out to lead to life?
near glen
at least the catholic church has a good pope now, seems pretty conservative comp...
As long as they don't solve the child raping issues and accept gays and trans they aren't a good pope
torn wadi
As long as they don't solve the child raping issues and accept gays and trans th...
They did accept it tho.
near glen
If there was only one shot of creating the universe, how did it so perfectly tur...
What makes you think that we are the best the universe managed to create? That would be pretty sad, lol
tough cedar
i thought the current pope was more liberal than previous popes
loud flax
fyi @near glen (i've said this before i'm pretty sure) but my heritage is German, 3rd generation American on dad's side, and I empathize with you on your recent past (World War II)
near glen
What has that to do with anything?
loud flax
our*, though I'm all the way in America so i don't know if "our" means the same to the two of us
near glen
WW2 doesn't affect me today
loud flax
that is the definition we Christians like to use of, "in the name of atheism"
blazing junco
What makes you think that we are the best the universe managed to create? That w...
Well, it was either this or complete nothingness as far as I'm aware.
near glen
Fun fact: i am officially still part of the church
Because to leave, you have to book an appointment, and they had a 6 month waiting line 😂
Cause everybody wants to gtfo here rn
Got my appointment next Tuesday
blazing junco
I can agree that the institution of the Church is a bit fucked up though.
a bit is an understatement tbh
foggy fern
Isn't a big chunk of the old testament about how to control people in 3000 BC era Mesopotamia?
faint radish
If there was only one shot of creating the universe, how did it so perfectly tur...
This is backwards. The universe exists as it is, because we exist. If there was something else, it’d be something else.
loud flax
@blazing junco organized anything is atrocious unless there are stop gaps put in place
foggy fern
It's a bunch of rules for things you can and can't do that viewed with a modern lens often have some use at fighting disease or more efficient farming or whatever
blazing junco
This is backwards. The universe exists as it is, because we exist. If there was ...
But it wasn't something else. And from what I've read(correct me if I'm wrong), it would be complete darkness.
loud flax
because people are selfish in nature, no subjectivity there, that's objective truth
foggy fern
And a whole bunch of laws meant to be used to run a government
loud flax
"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." That sentence from on the cross rings true even today, that's how I feel
faint radish
There is no “perfect” or anything to describe the universe. It’s what is. If something different would’ve happened, something else might’ve existed. IF we could, with excellent certainty, predict the outcome of changing a constant in our universe, that’d be almost proof we are living in a simulation
faint radish
Because you’d have to essentially accurately simulate an entire universe
blazing junco
I'd love to read an entire wikipedia article but can you dumb it down for me lol
faint radish
Yep, it’s essentially what I was saying, the universe exists as it is, because we exist
Didn’t know about that being a named thing tho
Good to see it
foggy fern
If the universe worked a different way we wouldn't exist to observe it so it wouldn't matter how it worked 😛
blazing junco
If the universe worked a different way we wouldn't exist to observe it so it wou...
...and what are the odds of it existing in this exact way? Unless you have evidence to facilitate that the universe could have existed in any other way, I'm inclined to believe the current state of the universe is the only one probable to exist - one where there isn't complete darkness.
foggy fern
I don't think this is a knowable thing
faint radish
Why is there only being one more likely than there being infinite?
blazing junco
Why is there only being one more likely than there being infinite?
There isn't! That's what I'm saying. I've chosen to believe that there is only one unless proven otherwise.
faint radish
Idk the answer, for now, it is unknowable, but I see no reason why one is more likely
blazing junco
Something something that's all I've ever known.
loud flax
the point is the universe is here, so it had to either come into existence or is simply infinite
blazing junco
The only case in which this belief of mine would change is if multiverse theory was proven to be correct - then we could say there's infinite universes, and inevitably one would lead to what we've got.
loud flax
yet, how can it be infinite, the energy was here all along
faint radish
Our universe isn’t infinite, no one is saying that.
I’m talking about an infinite number of universes themselves, or an ever increasing number
foggy fern
I feel like we're talking about deism now
blazing junco
So, my perspective:
- One shot at the universe
- No proof that the universe can exist in any other way
= Random(yet functional) universal constants that allow life to exist as it does
- No proof that the universe can exist in any other way
foggy fern
Which puts us in good company, that's what the founders of the US were talking about too
Basically you take the anthropic principle and reverse it to get "a higher power created the universe this way on purpose" and so long as you believe everything else that happened is a natural result of physics and time you end up with deism
There is a creator, they got things started, they don't do anything else
loud flax
are you a determinist idriz
blazing junco
are you a determinist idriz
Yes.
foggy fern
Some of the bigger figures from the founding of the US also believed this: Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, and a few others maybe
blazing junco
That's cool to know
loud flax
so you don't believe you have any free will
and none of us could help having this conversation, our brains were just reacting chemically and it led to us having this conversation
i can't imagine what it's like to be a determinist because i don't have that view myself
blazing junco
I don't try to think too much about it. I believe there is a creator and if there is they'll likely be way more intelligent than all intelligence in the universe combined. I won't attempt to understand why they created anything as it is. I just live my life as the little speck of nothing in the grand scheme of the universe.
loud flax
i see
in my understanding God designed everything and we have freedom to choose what we want to do, because if love exists, there has to be freedom to choose it
otherwise it's not love
if there is no creator, the only explanation I have with that is everything is random and so everything runs a certain way, there's only a determined outcome and we're not free, so why does love/hate exist in the first place
weary lake
if there is no creator, the only explanation I have with that is everything is r...
That could just be part of the randomness, no? If everything is random then there isn't any reason for why something does or does exist, it's just random chance.
torn wadi
But if everything is random, why aren't the laws of physics random?
weary lake
How do you mean?
torn wadi
They are constant. So not random.
Except if you accept that there were randomly generated forever.
weary lake
Well, they don't change over time, sure, but I don't see why the initial law itself couldn't have just been randomly made up
torn wadi
So could a humans life be determined at birth?
weary lake
I'm not aware of anything that would prevent us from doing that if you could simulate accurately enough
loud flax
if we're all determined, then what truth one arrives at will be different to everyone else, so how can there be any truth? truth is constant, not random
then again, the statement there is no truth is itself not true
blazing junco
I'm not aware of anything that would prevent us from doing that if you could sim...
The inability to see the future.
loud flax
oh wouldn't that be interesting
if we're all determined then one should theoretically be able to determine someone's future thoughts
weary lake
Why couldn't we just simulate the state of the universe and then just advance forward? It's not feasible right now, but I don't see why it would be completely impossible.
blazing junco
Why couldn't we just simulate the state of the universe and then just advance fo...
It would likely require an insane amount of resources to clone the entire universe and every detail in it; even in the future, this seems unfeasable.
Because when you're cloning the entire universe, you're also gonna need to clone the detail that that universe is going to start it's own simulation, etc etc etc.
blazing junco
if we're all determined then one should theoretically be able to determine someo...
What makes you say that?
loud flax
if we're just machines with inputs and outputs you should be able to calculate the output before it occurs
weary lake
Well, an entire life is perhaps a bit too large of a scope, but just a small amount of time, or perhaps even just a small part of the life is something that I think could be feasible in the future.
blazing junco
Well, an entire life is perhaps a bit too large of a scope, but just a small amo...
You can't predict the future after you've simulated the universe. You can only predict the past, because if you predict the future, you may have to predict every single thing that happens in the simulated universe inside your simulation, creating a type of recursive loop for that simulation as well.
See - because what you see in the simulated universe could create conclusions that can alter the future, so every minute detail has to be important to get a 100% accurate view of what will happen in the future.
weary lake
Well, it'd need to be so small that the simulation and the thing you're simulating don't have time to interact with each other.
blazing junco
Well, it'd need to be so small that the simulation and the thing you're simulati...
How do you mean?
weary lake
Well the simulation could only ever affect the outcome if the thing you're simulating and the simulation ever interact. If they don't interact, then they can't alter the outcome. So you could only do a very small amount of time - the time in which they couldn't have possibly interacted.
blazing junco
Well the simulation could only ever affect the outcome if the thing you're simul...
By the very observation of the simulation it interacts with you.
When you start the simulation and you see it running you've effectively interacted with it - you've created thoughts, conclusions, and ideas.
You'll have to simulate those as well to get a 100% accurate simulation of the future.
weary lake
But I don't watch the simulation simulating myself, though, I simulate something different. If the thing you simulate and the simulation are right next to each other, then they'll interact immediately.
blazing junco
You don't need to watch it.
torn wadi
You aren't really simulating in that case. You are just spectating what was already predeterminant.
blazing junco
Yeah.
You still need to simulate it.
You want the future
Something something butterfly effect
weary lake
Yes, but not necessarily my future, could be anyone else's.
blazing junco
But you can't predict somebody's future without predicting everything else at the same time.
torn wadi
Yes, but if the "universe" determined that you are going to do that, it already has an answer for it.
blazing junco
Because then you haven't predicted the future.
weary lake
Fair point
blazing junco
We can't use simulations to predict the future because you get stuck in a recursive loop
weary lake
Would need to have, like, a second universe which can't interact with the first.
blazing junco
But if you did then you can't draw conclusions from the universe.
weary lake
How come?
blazing junco
You can't figure out anything that's happened in the future.
Well the moment you interact with it you have to simulate every observation you found in the simulation. And so does the simulation inside of it. And so on and so on.
To simulate the future - The simulation has to simulate the future which has to simulate the future which has to...
weary lake
But I don't interact with it? I'm in a hypothetical second universe that can't interact with the first and vice versa. I know the state of the first universe (magically) and now I simulate.
weary lake
How is it an alternate future?
blazing junco
Because you haven't simulated the universe in that simulation.
Butterfly effect's a bitch
weary lake
Well, no, I don't predict the future of the second universe, only of the first universe.
blazing junco
Yeah but what's that useful for?
That's an alternate future.
Where you didn't do the simulation.
And things can turn out differently.
weary lake
But I'm not in the same universe, though?
That's the entire point, the simulation and the simulated thing can't interact.
blazing junco
If you want to predict the future of your universe you can't.
If you want to predict the future of another then sure.
weary lake
Yeah, that's my point
torn wadi
The thing is, you know the future of your universe, but it's on a set path, so nothing changes, as you are merely a spectator.
blazing junco
Yeah that's fair.
blazing junco
The thing is, you know the future of your universe, but it's on a set path, so n...
How do you know the future of your universe tho
Slovenia already predicting the future smh
torn wadi
If "you" simulated it. But as already said, you are just spectating what the universe generated.
blazing junco
I'm saying that you'll have resources to simulate the universe up to the point you simulate the universe
Nothing after
torn wadi
You could, if the universe is predeterminant.
blazing junco
If pre-determinant then you'd not try to simulate the universe at all.
From what I'm gathering you're saying if you know the future there's no reason to predict it
torn wadi
It would simulate itself.
blazing junco
But you'd have to give it resources to do that, no?
torn wadi
Yes, but I'm saying that if the universe want's to do that, it will do that.
It uses it's own logic, since again, it's already set.
blazing junco
Oh yeah sure, if the future is pre-determined then everything happens in a set of steps
But if we, as mortals, want to predict the future we can't use a simulation of our current universe
torn wadi
Depends on what is real. But most likely no.
blazing junco
Depends on what is real. But most likely no.
The only thing that is real is Republic Of Kosovo.
💪.
blazing junco
I predicted the future. Kosovo is becoming superpower.
Don't ask me how I did it. Classified Slovenian technology.
blazing junco
inland pebble
"Body Positivity" is going too far
It puts nowadays puts aside that being fat isn't good
Well some do
urban vector
whenever anyone says "is going to far" you can just immediately assume that whatever is coming next is gonna be either factually incorrect or a massive exaggeration of the facts
in this case, the second
inland pebble
Well, I read some articles listed first on google and many don't even mention being fat is bad
urban vector
"some articles listed first on google"
inland pebble
Yea, which means they are rather popular
urban vector
popular why
inland pebble
On the top of google
urban vector
yes, why do you think it's popular
inland pebble
So they're published by popular prints
I don't hate fat people I just think they should work on themselves and be healthier
urban vector
you're not answering my question
things can be popular because they incite this kind of reaction
inland pebble
Because google puts popular articles first, mostly
Well, still can't find many articles that see the body positivity from a non ideological standpoint
urban vector
so because you saw one article and couldn't easily find any articles that aren't "ideological" you have decided to make a blanket statement that X is going to far
do you think that is a reasonable way to go about life
inland pebble
I'm just talking from experience
There are some youtube channels putting the movement into some critical light, but from what I've seen online the general census seems to be that being fat is totally fine
urban vector
"from what ive seen"
do you not understand that social media enjoys pushing stuff that you will get angry at
inland pebble
How else are you to judge societies views
urban vector
ill ask this, have you actually spoken to any body positivity activists in real life?
inland pebble
I live in a little village in Germany, so no
I still read some newspapers though
Always good to be informed
But yeah, it's probably true that many news websites try to push one sided controversial articles to get more views
Some examples include Vice, Buzzfeed, Fox News
CNN
urban vector
right, so lets correct your earlier statement then "despite my limited world view and lack of experience with body positivity activists, i believe that body positivity has gone too far due to articles i have seen from social media sites that are known for pushing fringe views to generate disagreement"
inland pebble
How else am I supposed to form an opinion about such topics
That's what newspapers are supposed to be there for
urban vector
unbiased research, view studies, talk to real people with opposing views
inland pebble
I mean I am not going to spend lots of time on such a topic, just gathering some impressions
urban vector
okay, so if you're not interested in the topic why come here and talk about it?
inland pebble
The talking to different people with opposing views is what I am doing here
plush crypt
so McAfee is dead by suicide 
torn wadi
so McAfee is dead by suicide <:GWsetmyxPeepoWeird:405337568155009024>
_The Jeffrey kind. _
torn wadi
I assume that just like with Jeff, jokes can be made instantly.
pure jetty
yeah I guess he tweeted a while before saying that that if him kills himself it was the US not him
urban vector
what would be the reason why the us would want him bumped off?
torn wadi
Promoting tax evasion and crypto.
Just promoting crypto is fine, but promoting crypto as a means of tax evasion, big no no.
urban vector
seems a bit extreme tbh - i thought he was pretty widely considered to be a bit crazy
although this is the us we're talking about so 🤷
near glen
If we makes references two suicide twice that could indicate that he has been unstable for a while
If he thinks about that topic all the time
urban vector
a lot can change in half a year
torn wadi
If he was unstable, he would be put on suicide watch, with 2 sleeping guards and broken cameras.
near glen
It's not always obvious, plus that would mean guard actually care about inmates mental health which is a stretch, especially in the US
urban vector
I don't think he was in the US right?
pure jetty
Listen our federal prisons aren't half bad
torn wadi
Not yet.
pure jetty
:p
pure jetty
They're not private at least
The mental health ones are usually effective with suicide watch too
near glen
Well, German prisons are considered good and a friend I guess was in prison for two and a half years
near glen
It was the best thing that has ever happened to him, but it was still quite horrifying
torn wadi
Look bro. Epstein just tripped.
pure jetty
definitely a lot of "coincidences" in his case
mystic ermine
I don't think anybody are gonna say he's not where he belongs, but, given all the other info that was coming around at the time and all the "random" people who where found to have been buddy buddy with him around the same time, It's erm... Not surprising, er...
near glen
Important detail
He committed suicide shortly after being cleared for extradition to the US
shut vine
Who did that after being cleared for extradition?
If you mean Epstein that's categorically false. He was arrested in New York, and died in the Metropolitan Correctional Center of New York.
shut vine
Yeah probably
near glen
Yeah afee
shut vine
Yeah no worries, was just confused since it seemed like the conversation shifted.
Either way, it is pretty interesting that he even hinted at his potential suicide yet still managed to pull it off. Similar in Epstein case multiple people I know in person said "he's probably going to end up 'committing suicide' before he gets to trial", as well as people online.
That being said if there was any conspiracy, it'd be unlikely to ever be proven.
Your point about after clearance for extradition makes it more believable, if he was really already suicidal that could tip someone over the edge.
loud flax
just as straightforward as OJ Simpson's case huh
ofc i'm not serious
that guy gets constant knife jokes thrown his way on twitter lmao
near glen
Oh god
Check the replies
Gay pride, banned, white pride, ok
Black lives matter banned, white lives matter, ok
How can you fuck this up so badly?
In unrelated news, a win for democracy
faint radish
cant put "Free Hong Kong" either
restive seal
What about
光復香港，時代革命
pure jetty
I mean to be fair they probably had some intern make the censor
I'm sure they will fix it soon
If there's enough pressure for them to notice that is
but to instantly be like "peak corporate pride" is 
glossy sandal
Cant wait for a internet historian video on how Coke broke the number 1 rule of the internet, giving anonymous users option to type whatever they want
pure jetty
yeah idk how the PR department doesn't see that ending poorly
serene cosmos
they should have just used Minecraft Bedrock's word filter 
daring locust
Dutch prime minister would rather have Hungary out of the EU
"Rutte: ’Hongarije heeft niks te zoeken in EU’ | Binnenland | Telegraaf.nl" https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/1498612839/rutte-hongarije-heeft-niks-te-zoeken-in-eu
i understand where he's coming from but that's a bit extreme
blazing junco
I mean
Maybe not out but there has to be repercussions
They broke a pretty major rule
daring locust
yeah
near glen
Well, as I said, the foundation of the EU is build on a handful of shared values
If you no longer share those values with the rest of us, that should lead you to ask questions like, do we really belong here
dusky raft
the EU has gotten to big for what it was
soft reef
John McAfee did not uninstall himself
loud flax
he was what he was trying to create a program to prevent: a virus
blazing junco
John McAfee did not uninstall himself
yes he did it's exactly a him move
or he just faked his death with his copious amounts of money
near glen
I mean, he hacked a heart attack before to escape prison
red valve
daring locust
including all the shady/illegal shit he's done?
tough cedar
*especially 😄
velvet wedge
I was looking up something to try to help someone in #paper-help
wtf is this google
daring locust
LMAO
warm ibex
lol
drifting arch
soft reef
He should be freeed
near glen
Why?
foggy fern
22.5 years
sweet canyon
Yup, just saw that.
faint radish
eligible for parole in 15 I think
foggy fern
Minnesota you have to do at least 2/3 so yeah, exactly 15 years
I think that's just to get out and be done with it though, not parole
You can reduce your sentence via "good time" but you only get 1 day good time for every 2 days you don't cause problems
If you get out early on parole you stop building up more good time and have to be on parole for whatever time you have left
So sometimes it's better to just serve your time
rich sun
that's actually not a horrible argument
near glen
“If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice”
- Aristotle
faint radish
it means there is no big market choice where they know that anything on it has gone through a review process
if apple allows sideloading, there will be no choice for consumers that forces a review process
near glen
I just don't see how that's relevant
faint radish
its eliminating choice