politics

[tough cedar]

damn are they?

[gleaming ferry]

what was funny

[pure jetty]

your foreign policy screams of being found exclusively on twitter.com

[gleaming ferry]

no?

[pure jetty]

ok, well good day!

[tough cedar]

ok, now would be a good time to back up your claim with a source

[gleaming ferry]

noooo problem

[gleaming ferry]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNqozQ8uaV8&ab_channel=AJ%2BAJ%2B

there

there are tens more people like her being kicked out of their places

and being replaced with jewish settlers

[pure jetty]

lol single video

and from AJ at that

AJ, the state news organization for Qatar, which supports Hamas, a terror organization who want to kill all jewish people

[gleaming ferry]

but it still doesn't cover what the video is saying

he is clearly stealing her house

infront of her

🍉

[gleaming ferry]

plus hammas only started attacking after giving israel a warning to give back the innocent hostages they took

israel started first

and isreal is attacking the mosques while the Palestinians are praying

[pure jetty]

so fucking terminally online jesus

[gleaming ferry]

what

[tough cedar]

yea, but im glad it was stolen

cause he's my guy

[fluid sonnet]

So Ahmed you're going to disregard the hundreds if not thousands of women and children that were targeted by Hamas and the Palestinians by directly going into schools and murdering them for joy, but Israel is "ethnic cleansing"?

Seems quite hypocritical tbh

[shut vine]

So, should Israel allegedly starting "it" allow a group of terrorists to advocate for a position of having all Jews exterminated?

[woven yoke]

Im getting sum weird vibes from Ahmed ngl he wants all jews exterminated who does that sound like?

[gritty robin]

why does that sound familiar

[blazing junco]

Hamas is ass and Israel is ass

[near glen]

humans are ass

lol

[daring locust]

humans have ass, mini

[dark crystal]

this place is radioactive omfg

[near glen]

and your comment unnecessary

[dark crystal]

I don't really mind, nor do I care even

[gleaming ferry]

No one said that

There was a map that was agreed upon by UN to divide the land into palestine and israel

But they broke the treaty like its no one’s business and no one is doi g a ything about it

They almost have take all of palestine

[blazing junco]

I do think it's fucked up that Israel basically waltzed into ME territory because of big boys playing map drawing, but that doesn't validate Hamas at all

Hamas does what it does for political points, and so did Netanyahu

[pure jetty]

and there was no UN agreed upon treaty for two states

The US vetoed that because they wanted both Israel and Palestine to pick the borders

[near glen]

Cause the US didn't agree 😂

[foggy fern]

Thanks... Eisenhower?

[pure jetty]

Ford maybe?

Idk

but it's hard to say if that would have solved it anyway

[gleaming ferry]

Hammas is only a small group of people

[blazing junco]

This isn't true

[gleaming ferry]

It is

[pure jetty]

Israel has nuclear weapons, and countries start using nuclear weapons when their sovereignty is threatened

[pure jetty]

Hamas is literally a huge part of the Palestinian government

[gleaming ferry]

Yeahh..

[gleaming ferry]

Its small in comparison to the about of innocent civilians living in gaza

[pure jetty]

Oh my god

Justifying terrorist groups

Fun

[gleaming ferry]

Israel kills one man from hamas and 10 other innocent people with him

[blazing junco]

While this is true Israel should also recognize that it was placed there. I think they should try to achieve a two state solution, but Palestine is being hindered by having a terrorist group in its government lol

[pure jetty]

yeah 100%

[pure jetty]

do you have any data for this

[gleaming ferry]

Oh yeah i do

[pure jetty]

not from AJ

[gleaming ferry]

Why

Is it cause they are fake?

[pure jetty]

they're part of the Qutar government

[blazing junco]

Israel bombing and murdering civilians is pretty well documented on international accounts tbh.

[foggy fern]

They're a bit biased in this case

[pure jetty]

Which has backed Hamas for years

[blazing junco]

I support the palestinian people but absolutely not Hamas

[gleaming ferry]

.

[blazing junco]

Hamas is using this situation for their own political points

[foggy fern]

btw there was this recently too https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution

[pure jetty]

This is not a source

I'm not even necessarily saying you're wrong I just know you're basing everything you're talking about from YouTube videos, Twitter, or Instagram

[gleaming ferry]

Its kinda dumb that every time palestinian civilians get bombed by israel they say it was an act of defense and point out to hamas

[pure jetty]

go outside

[gleaming ferry]

I have palestinian people in gaza recording all this with their phones

I mean i follow the@

[blazing junco]

I mean he does have a point there. Pretty sure that a media building was bombed recently as well

[gleaming ferry]

M

[gleaming ferry]

Yeah al jazeera

[pure jetty]

The building that was bombed I was pretty sure was Al Jazeera as well as AP

[blazing junco]

Yep

[pure jetty]

They were given plenty of warning before it actually happened

[foggy fern]

Sometimes Hamas really is storing stuff in one of these places, other times Israel doesn't care about civilian casualties and just bombs the place when a member of Hamas happens to be there

[blazing junco]

They were warned that they must evacuate but not allowed to bring out any equipment

[pure jetty]

Probably because they didn't want them still inside

[blazing junco]

Thing is they had over an hour I believe

[foggy fern]

Bombing the media building is a really bad look

[gleaming ferry]

People still die

[pure jetty]

Oh yeah you don't want to give Hamas too much time

But yeah bombing a media building is really bad but I don't think Israel is really after optics

[foggy fern]

And a surefire way to get all the media to start reporting negative things about you

[blazing junco]

The only evidence for Hamas presence was a tweet by the IDF with a red rectangle painted on the building though

[pure jetty]

AJ does have a Palestine bias anyway

Even AP has been really weird about Israel Palestine report

Reporting*

That's like the one thing the AP is weird on

[blazing junco]

Well

Tends to happen when the building you operate in gets bombed to shit

[pure jetty]

Well I mean historically not after the bomb

And as for the only evidence being the IDF tweet, what other way would you get evidence

[blazing junco]

You wouldn't

[pure jetty]

Israel probably isn't going to share how they get this intel

[blazing junco]

You also shouldn't take the IDF's tweet's word for it though lol. It's a media building that they screenshotted and painted red over

And not just any media building - AP news and AJ stationed there

The last thing they'd want is housing Hamas

[pure jetty]

They didn't have to necessarily know

I wouldn't trust AJ to report on it necessarily but the AP may not have known

[blazing junco]

They weren't just housing Hamas, they were housing Hamas military equipment as well according to the IDF

A little difficult to miss shots coming from the roof lol

[pure jetty]

Idk I don't think their goal was to try and silence media because that's a pretty ineffective way of doing it, especially nowadays

[blazing junco]

Actually it could very well serve as a warning to them

"Don't fuck around. We can call you Hamas and you're fucked"

Might make them think twice about reporting on the front line

[pure jetty]

ehhhhh

Israel doesn't care about optics but they know that's not really possible to do

[dusky raft]

Still, if israel really wanted to fix this problem, they could have went in themselves, but that would caused more issues and deaths.

[blazing junco]

What is this supposed to prove? This changes nothing that I said lol

The IDF has been documented murdering civilians before and also bombing them. This isn't about warnings or not, it's about civilian casualties in cases like this

I'm aware the IDF warns civilians most of the time

Also this "hamas hides everywhere" argument is pretty tired; you can't keep having civilian collateral casualties because you have a hunch Hamas is there

This changes nothing about what I said

Yes but it also happens in the IDF

So it changes nothing about what I said

(also if there really is Hamas fighters in these buildings warning them beforehand seems like a terrible idea lol)

Okay so you edited your message there - the people who commit those crimes do it intentionally

That media building didn't have rocket launching pads

[near glen]

Remember, civilians are only innocent if they are on your side

[blazing junco]

If it did the AP and AJ are complicit and they should be investigated

[blazing junco]

idk what this adds to the discussion lol

Interesting. What are your thoughts on those clashes between Palestinians and Israelis on riots?

[torn wadi]

So people who are walking away from solders are showing acts of violence and should be shoot in the spine?

[blazing junco]

Condemned? Sure. Killed for it?...

[torn wadi]

So never.

Oh wait, like in 50 years kind of like the Balkan war crimes?

[blazing junco]

@shy gulch Heard of James Miller?

He was shot while recording a documentary on the Gaza Strip by an IDF soldier.

The IDF soldier was never prosecuted.

[torn wadi]

1 of many.

Also 18 months bruh.

18!

For someones death.

[blazing junco]

18 months for a war crime

lol

No, it's a war crime under the geneva conventions actually

You can't kill injured soldiers

[torn wadi]

And probably only sat for like 3 months before being discharged.

As an example.

[blazing junco]

Eventually, the Israeli government agreed to pay the Miller family £1.75 million, if the British government agreed to close the case, and not demand the extradition of the Israeli soldiers involved in his killing.[30]

Israel is the closest thing to Serbia in the ME

Why does that matter?

[torn wadi]

An yet, nothing came from it.

[blazing junco]

War crimes that happened 20 years ago aren't war crimes.

It was heavily implied that because this event took place 20 years ago, charges shouldn't be pressed against the perpetrators

By the way, they guy who shot Malek Issa in his eye was never investigated.

9 year old kid

I've brought up two examples where Israeli law failed to prosecute their own soldiers for war crimes.

Also Hamas soldiers don't get punished because they're a terrorist organization. If they're caught, they'll be punished.

If they're not caught.. well.. you can only pull a charge in absentia which wouldn't matter

That depends. Do you think bombing civilians is a war crime?

No. The main reason it re-ignited was Al-Aqsa Mosque being raided during the last day of Ramadan.

In which case Hamas "retaliated for the palestinian people"(we all know they did it for political points, hamas are pieces of shit)

Wait. So collateral damage on civilians should not be considered a war crime?

[glossy sandal]

18 month sentence for murder "punished" "it's ok cuz they're soldiers"

[blazing junco]

They're not military stations, you said it yourself - "Hamas hides amongst civilian presence"

[glossy sandal]

Why ping reply for a message directly above yours

[blazing junco]

And according to you civilians are warned beforehand

[glossy sandal]

No it's not better then no punishment it is no punishment

[blazing junco]

So how are all these casualties adding up?

You're.. not saying that Hamas launches rockets on Palestinians right?

I'm talking about the casualties adding up on the Palestinian side - who, according to you, are very well informed beforehand which buildings are going to be targeted

In my eyes I'd evacuate the building when told it was going to be blown to shit, and I think any sane person would

You can't expect me to believe every civilian casualty in Palestine is Hamas

lol

But because you're saying every civilian is warned beforehand

How come they're still dying

Oh?

So they're not warned?

Pretty terrible things would happen.

Because a terrorist organization fires rockets into their territory.

I'm not disputing that Hamas is a terrorist organization and wants to harm Israeli citizens

I'm saying that the IDF is committing war crimes and painting them all under the guise of "We promise it's Hamas." when they won't even charge their own soldiers

Israel has the full right to defend themselves

[glossy sandal]

No it's ok bro they're soldiers

[blazing junco]

But I do have a problem with bombing anyone and everyone and saying "It was Hamas!"

That's a disputed statement.

The only source of information we have for them not targeting civilians on purpose is Israel.

Who doesn't charge their soldiers for civilian casualties they cause.

It's like when Milosevic denied any war crimes were happening in Bosnia or in Kosovo.

[loud flax]

Having been to Jerusalem as a kid, it feels weird hearing about all this conflict now

[stoic arrow]

Communism good

[dark crystal]

b-b-but venezuela cuba 100 million!!1

[pure jetty]

Don't troll

[warm ibex]

how so

[blazing junco]

no you can actually just use the soviet union as an example lol

[dark crystal]

I was being sarcastic + it kind of becomes non-communism when you mix dictatorship into the drink, but ¯_(ツ)_/¯ yeah

[near glen]

Communism is as bad as capitalism

Both extremes you don't want

Want smth in between

[inland pebble]

Well technically the definition of Communism by Karl Marx is Anarchy, but everyone is super nice and nobody do crime because everyone super cool

It's an utopian idea that doesn't work

[torn wadi]

Now. Tell us why it doesn't work.

The answer is very simple.

[inland pebble]

To achieve this anarchist non system he proposed socialism, which kinda is the other end of the extreme; government controls and organizes the entire economy

[inland pebble]

Because the way to achieve communism (socialism) goes against human nature

[torn wadi]

That's it.

[mystic ermine]

what would you know about communism

[torn wadi]

Because humans are just like animals, only try to behave when others are watching.

[languid cloud]

[mystic ermine]

I thought you was in one of the ex blocc countries but I forget

[dark crystal]

I could also argue that since humans are social beings, the natural instinct is to try to survive in groups and that means mutual help

And that we're not like, the greedy beings that capitalism says we are

[torn wadi]

Keep forgetting and you might actually start floating away.

[languid cloud]

I feel like these arguments (arguments is probably the wrong word for it) typically meet a stopping point when either communism (or capitalism, I guess) both have the same issue where folks apply their meaning or flavor to the concept and it becomes only slightly better sounding but ultimately the same thing.

[mystic ermine]

I mean, theres many issues with capitalism

[torn wadi]

Do any of the issues start with J?

[mystic ermine]

But, I mean, the concept of everything being owned and ran by higher up, just, it's dumb

[inland pebble]

That's technically the opposite of the idea of capitalism

[mystic ermine]

but

I wasn't talking about capitalism there

[inland pebble]

Adam Smith proposed an economic system in which each individual had complete economic freedom, contrary to the time's monarchic systems

In theory, the system would perfectly, just like communism

But he forgot that most people don't make rational decisions when it comes to economics

And many people simply don't have the knowledge to become successful

[languid cloud]

my post was long and nerdy

i suffice to give you the pog emoji again

[mystic ermine]

I mean, a lot of stuff is complex and pretty much all systems forget the nuance of the human, reminds me of the sully movie

[languid cloud]

[When it comes to everything being owned and ran by higher ups, I don't think anyone particularly disagrees - where I'm coming from on that is a lack of trust. In the hypothetical scenario where we do somehow establish a state leadership, I'm skeptical. When it comes to America, which is what my hypothetical is and frankly I think the same issue would exist outside of it:

People can barely trust their elected officials now, I could only imagine what happens when someone seizes control otherwise. Bureaucracy and whathaveyou isn't a concept strictly tied to capitalism.]

this is what was written.

[mystic ermine]

I think capitalism is the strongest system we have, but, in part, we need to get governments out, clean up the tax code shit (you could clean up the tax code, reduce taxes, and still pull in more cash!)

The issue with systems of central control is that, where does innovation come from? the government? with their floppy drives to manage their nukes... (I mean, it is/was/in the process of being upgraded, but, sheesh); How fast is government at getting literally anything done?

It's part of what people worry about with their health care, you can say that free health care is great, but, a good number of people travel from the UK and Canada to the US for treatment, because central government restricts access to new treatments and such due to the monetary costs and such; waiting lists often push people to go abroad for care, like, dental treatment and cosmetic stuff is often muuuucch cheaper abroad and such because theres a diverse market open for it; Biggest issue with the US health system imho? government. and excessive regulation requiring over-administrative hell, as well as shady backwards dealings

[languid cloud]

"shady backwards dealings"
And you've essentially outlined atleast a good half of the issue of with current day capitalism/just this country in general -
We are of the same mind when it comes to cleaning up the government, frankly I believe that is the only 'good future', because you're right any actual progress being made is either backtracked by some nutjob or halted by some nutjob being elected. As for what you said on upgrading, yeah -

When it was found that China was upgrading it's military arsenal over the course of seven years it took less than half that time for the US to do that hence you hear talks about new modular assault weapons in use. While sure it was in the Trump administration, I highly doubt we'll see WW3 pop up so you can kind've tell where peoples minds were at and they were far out of sanity.

[mystic ermine]

I mean, i feel that the first term of any president in the US is basically reversing what the last peep did

[dark crystal]

If only both parties in the US got together and agreed on a paste of laws for the next 10 or 20 years that everyone would promise not to revert if they get to power, then we could see some progress

but with things only lasting as far as a 4 year term, it won't do much

(and this can pretty much apply to any country tbh)

[blazing junco]

The US only having two political parties is fucked

[inland pebble]

Imo Germany and Switzerland have the best democratic systems

Thing is with switzerland you need high election participation or a minority can influence a huge part of the election, which is kinda difficult in huge ass countries like the US

The German election system is called "Personalisierte Verhältniswahl" which provides regional representation of every region in parlament while maintaining proper power ratios

[near glen]

Germany has the slight issue with overhang mandates so our parliment is freaking huge

But yeah, at least we got a bunch of parties

[inland pebble]

yea, the overhang mandates kinda are a problem

we should switch to 1/3 of the seats being granted by a direct mandate

you need to find a good mix between having lots of parties and still being able to form a coalition

the weimar republic had no 5% hurdle, meaning lots of radicals and no government

[near glen]

I disagree with the 5% hurdle on a fundamental level and I don't think it's fair to compare today's society with the Weimar republic

[foggy fern]

Communism would only work in a Star Trek world where we have infinite energy and replicators so the only reason to do something is for the art of it

That doesn't mean we shouldn't have a robust social safety net though, these are not the same thing

I think that might be a US thing, screaming "socialism" every time the government tries to do something

[near glen]

Yeah, that's what I always say it's a scale, you wanna avoid the extremes on both ends and find a nice middle ground

Like, Germany isn't Communist or socialist by any stretch of the imagination, but we are way further down that road compared to the US, and generally it seems to benefit our society

[warm ibex]

you can make real criticism of communism

but this is just a strawman

do you know why the first internationale dissolved?

it was because marx and the anarchists (bakunin mostly) didn't agree, so they split it up

[fair iris]

Both democracy and communism are systems that lead people into violence

All people is different so agreements will never keep people satisfied

The best politic system for now is capitalism, not yet implemented in it's pure state

[urban vector]

Yes, capitalism is well known for its peace and lack of violence

[torn wadi]

Socialism.

[near glen]

I wonder if there is some kind of 3rd system

That on like a different scale

[warm ibex]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Position

[dark crystal]

just like the western world lives in non-democratic capitalist systems, right?

[fair iris]

i live on a communist country and there is no intermediate, all intermediates end up being communist and end up on poverty and corruption. in the 90's we got a little capitalism and we were about to be a first world country but because of communism we ended up with high external debt and poverty again.

my country is a communist experiment or something like that, they try weird stuff and it always fails

[near glen]

South America got some weird systems

[fair iris]

thats where i live sadly

[near glen]

I think it was Chile that tried computer powered Communism in the like 80 or smth

I wonder if that would lead to different results now that we got "AI"

[fair iris]

only someone with the power of a god can manage a system like communism

you need everyone to agree with the system and do as the system says

[near glen]

Well yes, if you go extreme

But no need to do that

[fair iris]

but what do you mean with that? if there is people that dont agree with communism it will just dissapear

i mean people will always like to get more power and open business

so its impossible to keep up communism because of human nature

and because of communism giving people stuff even if they dont work its highly inefficent and leads to poverty

in my country there are states that are fully communist and capitalist states have to keep them up with taxes

[near glen]

In my country everybody is capitalist and we still have to keep others up with taxes 😂

[fair iris]

because its not capitalism, but mixed capitalism with democracy

there is no country with pure capitalism yet

[near glen]

Thankfully, lol

In other news, football world is freaking out because the German goal keeper and caption wears a rainbow armband while playing 😂

Because apparently that's a political statement

Wait till they find out that Munich wants to turn the Allianz Arena into a giant led rainbow flag for the game against Hungary 😂 😂

[fair iris]

isnt the rainbow flag for lgbt politics?

for their rights

[near glen]

It's not politics

It's human decency

[fair iris]

what do you mean most of countries apply the same laws to everyone right?

[near glen]

If thinking everybody should be treated equal political to you, I think we have a different understanding of human rights

[near glen]

Not in Hungary 😂

[fair iris]

what happens in hungary?

it is still illegal to marry and stuff?

[weary lake]

iirc Hungary has been getting more anti-LGBT laws

[near glen]

That I don't know, (i bet it is), but recently they disallowed movies with gay characters and stuff to be shown without age restrictions or smth

I already forgot the details cause it's so fucking stupid

EU parliment is sueing EU commission because they don't act on this matter

[weary lake]

I think I heard sometime ago that they introduced gay-free zones, but I might be misremembering that or confusing it with a different country.

[fair iris]

thats crazy

[near glen]

Some European countries are on a bad trajectory rn

Poland is as bad as Hungary

And it seems Austria is entering that slope too now

And then you got fuckheads like azerbaijan

Literally staging genocides

[fair iris]

i quite understand some antilgbt laws as some countries in europe are having low child birth rate but forcing people into being something is not right at all

i think this is another failure of democracy where people decide to do something but politics dont want them to

[near glen]

That's the most stupid justification for those laws I have heard so far, lmao

[fair iris]

hahaha its the most logic one atleast

but its so bad

[near glen]

Just because you are gay doesn't mean you can't have kids

Medicine can do wonderful things nowadays

And gay couples often just adopt, solving another problem

Did you think of that argument or did you heard that elsewhere? Because I never heard it before

[fair iris]

they are less likely to have kids

[near glen]

Idk if there is data on that but maybe

But like, the most comment reason ppl bring up for banning LGBT stuff is religion

Hur dur god doesn't want this, god doesn't want that, fuck god

That's why we can't have nice things

[fair iris]

thats true

but in some countries lgbt and feminism is like a religion, making war because of extra rights that were never the point of the movements

here we have feminism like a religion, lot of women are assasinated by man and instead of making something about it they make statues and benchs with feminism significate

[urban vector]

i really don't think you know what you're talking about tbh

like, genuinely, did you just make that up?

[fair iris]

nope

it was a new in my country

they use feminism to get votes and they wont stop the killing

[urban vector]

i would love to hear more about these feminist assassinations, sounds badass

[fair iris]

no i mean, lot of women are killed by their couples and feminism instead of doing something about it they make benchs and statues

instead of increasing security for women

and it became like a religion instead of a purpose or right for the woman

[urban vector]

again, id love to read some news about this

[near glen]

Extra rights? Ppl just want the same rights, lol

[fair iris]

in my country they already have the same rights but they want to make women only stuff

[dark crystal]

and do they have the same rights in practice?

[near glen]

Can you provide an example?

[fair iris]

yes

[urban vector]

often not

[dark crystal]

because in theory women have the right of getting an equal salary to a man of the same qualifications

[fair iris]

sure it will be funny to share

oh and lgbt city was opened too

[dark crystal]

in practice that often does not happen

[plush crypt]

Which country is this exactly?

[fair iris]

argentina

[urban vector]

an lgbt city... this is like some right wing fantasy land

well you think an lgbt city opening would at least make the first page of google

[plush crypt]

there is no lgbt city, there is however "Latin America's gay capital" (Buenos Aires) because of LGBT tourism being high there

[fair iris]

it was opened by a left wing group

[plush crypt]

that has nothing to do with feminism or LGBT activism

[fair iris]

it was recent

[urban vector]

source: trust me bro

[dark crystal]

give us articles proving it then

[near glen]

That assumes ppl care about what happens in south America, lol

[fair iris]

opened by the goverment

of state of la rioja

i think this is extremely anti lgbt

threating them like they are not allowed in our society

[dark crystal]

... a neighborhood is not a city, though?

i know a bit of spanish and barrio does not translate to city

[fair iris]

yeah i got confused there

[near glen]

Concentration camp light, segregate them so they don't ruin ma neighbor or what's happening here?

[fair iris]

yeah locals compare it to that

[plush crypt]

seems to just be a neighbourhood in which there are many LGBT+ people and especially establishments, and therefore became a so-called "gay village"

[urban vector]

again, you seem to have no idea what you're on about - the term "gay village" is just used to describe areas with high percentages of lgbt people, they didn't "make" a gay city lmao

[near glen]

Not sure how that relates to your point that they want more rights than others, this just seems like a slippery road down to less rights?

[fair iris]

yeah but do you think is right to tag gay people like that?

and separate them

they only accept lgbt there

[plush crypt]

no?

[urban vector]

stop concern trolling, nobody is forcing them to live there and no, they don't only accept LGBT people

[near glen]

I mean, cologne is seen by many as a gay city

[fair iris]

they do

[plush crypt]

it's just a place with a lot of LGBT establishments and LGBT people therefore prefer to go there

[fair iris]

you have to be lgbt to be accepted

[urban vector]

again, source: trust me bro there's one screenshot here

[fair iris]

"El gobierno de La Rioja construyó un barrio de 25 viviendas destinadas únicamente a personas gay o trans, por el programa HabitAR, y lo llamó "Barrio LGBT+""

[urban vector]

if you're gonna get angry about something, can it at least be a real thing

[plush crypt]

there's one of those in Stockholm which is pretty cool. there are straight, cis people there and they're just fine... it's just a place with more LGBT concentration

[fair iris]

they are 25 exlusive households for lgbt people

they use lgbt to get votes

[urban vector]

25 homes lmfaooo

that's a "city"

[plush crypt]

so 25 gay people bought homes?

[fair iris]

they are free

corruption, votes

[urban vector]

are they?

[near glen]

We got a street in cologne filled with gay clubs and bars, it's a pretty wild place, but pretty chill in general. They all share one wardrope whcih is nice

[plush crypt]

there are state subsidised & funded homes in basically every country

[urban vector]

you've still yet to provide a single actual source for this haha

[plush crypt]

in sweden, they exist for anyone who can't work, have certain needs, are under 25, etc.

there's nothing wrong per se to provide them to minorities in need

[fair iris]

source https://www.lavoz.com.ar/ciudadanos/la-rioja-construira-el-primer-barrio-lgbt-del-pais/

the problem is that we have one of the countries with highest poverty and highest taxes

and with highest inflation too

[plush crypt]

"There we started to talk about the fact that these houses will have classrooms where they will be able to go for training and work," he said.

The housing units belong to those being built in the province with the "Housing with a decent roof" program, but with the addition of shared spaces for recreation, with rooms equipped for businesses and services such as health centers.

"It is a way for the state to be present in the lives of the compañeras", assured the legislator.

The project is aimed at the trans, transvestite and transgender population. In total, there will be 25 houses.

so a group of people targetted with hate crime and whatnot on a daily get some houses...

that's not a big deal

it's also pretty clear this is for LGBT people in need

[urban vector]

"we've got so much poverty"
"grr the government are providing the needy with homes and education"

[fair iris]

so they care about 25 lgbt people but not about 50% of poor people in the country, and they keep printing papers

nationalized companies are in debt too and we have to pay them with taxes

[plush crypt]

these houses will have classrooms where they will be able to go for training and work
this is a direct measure to help against poverty

[fair iris]

hahahaha

of course not

if you increase taxes or inflation to give people houses they wont be able to pay for food

[urban vector]

.... do you know how taxes work?

[daring locust]

education is literally one of the main ways to decrease poverty?

[fair iris]

yes

[plush crypt]

education is an objectively good way to help poor people who can't get decent, long-term jobs (hey, that means long-term, stable taxes, which again benefits everyone!)

[fair iris]

in this case education is not properly bring, we have free education and a lot of colleges for the poor but they dont finish because they have to start working at short age

so no, education will not solve this as people needs food now, they need work first, then education

[urban vector]

so then it's a good idea to provide people with housing and support so they can get through the education system without dropping out

[fair iris]

thats not the problem, the problem is that even if they are educated there are no jobs available

because of taxes companies left the country so you are entering a vicious circle

where you give houses but lose jobs

it has been like this since early 1900 and we are still poor, it doesnt work

it is even a meme on south america, finishing education but not finding jobs

(yeah we laugh about our own disgraces)

and even if we gave an small percent of the cash of all the people that works there will not be enough for poor people to eat because everyone is poor already

[urban vector]

so im not gonna claim to know much about argentina, but 25 homes for some minorities is not gonna break your entire economy

[fair iris]

nah, the point is about the interest of the politics to get votes

while people starves to death, they keep making lgbt stuff and stuff like that to look cool, but they hate lgbt and everyone

even the president made racist commentaries, he is a fake lgbt defender

and yeah the point is that they always make this politics "in defense of the minorities" but the country is on fire and this minorities are still suffering more and more

[urban vector]

not these ones who have a nice house and education

[fair iris]

and who has nice houses and education?

[urban vector]

those people in the houses they just built..

[fair iris]

they are low quality houses

[urban vector]

how on earth do you know that lmfao

[fair iris]

and education is bad in general

bc it is always like that

[urban vector]

i just love your logic here, you're jumping about all over the place

[fair iris]

yes because everything is related

[urban vector]

"how dare they provide houses and education to these people, it's taking away good housing and education to people"

[fair iris]

this houses are memes

do you know the term "villa miseria"?

[fair iris]

i've never said that

[reef vapor]

It was a paraphrase. But this is more entertaining to watch from the sidelines Than to actually be in the discussion. So I’m not going to pick a side. (i don’t know enough about the situations to have an opinion)

[fair iris]

by making that free education and houses, not only lgbt but for all the other people, of bad quality of course, they increase taxes and inflation to get votes. People that works can't keep paying the food and houses and become poor.

sure my country is crazy and i want to share everything from it

europe has a decent system where the state only gives essential stuff to poor people

but here is taken to an extreme that a lot of stuff is nationalized

taxes are +60% in here

[reef vapor]

Hoo- that’s a lot

Almost as bad as Canada /j

But that actually is definitely too much to take from someone who can’t afford it
/srs

[fair iris]

And thats not only it...

Stuff for other countries have extra tax so in total you pay the double for stuff that you get from outside

[reef vapor]

Import taxes, yes.

[fair iris]

And yeah i have been eating noodles for 6 months

[reef vapor]

Oh wow

[fair iris]

by the way something absurd of this country is that they take taxes from workers of the state too haha

idk how that works

[reef vapor]

A lack of money can often lead to the government needing more money then they tax, and overbearing taxes + the inability to pay them = 💥

[fair iris]

thats exactly what we have, they print papers to pay the debts, inflation

[reef vapor]

That’s what happened in the American & French Revolutions

The French Revolution was just a mess of poorly put together attempts to help the poor but they were too far gone with their horrible leadership and hoards of people willing to do anything to either eat or gain power. That plus the extremists (which get the most attention) gained popularity and for I think half a century (don’t quote me on that) it was just massive bloodshed and power being passed from one corrupt to the next

And by attempts I mean like there was one

But King Louis IV was not a good person, and was kinda like ‘screw them I wanna party’

[fair iris]

woah

so socialism always ends the same?

war?

[reef vapor]

Mmm

Well it depends

[fair iris]

A neighbour country called venezuela is not even at war and has worse inflation values than some countries did on post war, it is full communist, expropiated every business possible

[reef vapor]

Canada seems to be doing relatively well, but socialism has massive downsides in the quality of services.

[fair iris]

i heard about some issues with socialism in canada, what happened there?

[reef vapor]

I dunno

Just public healthcare system is...

Not that good

But that’s in comparison to private healthcare

[fair iris]

do you have pre-paid in your country?

pre-paid health care system

[reef vapor]

Umm

I think it depends. It’s tied to your insurance and where you work

But most companies are required to provide a healthcare insurance. Which when it was first implemented was viewed very controversially but I think it’s good.

[fair iris]

in argentina we have public health system, syndicate health system, pre-paid health system and the classic private health system.

[reef vapor]

Mhmm

I assume prepaid is just insurance

[fair iris]

i think pre-paid is the best system as it allows the poor to access private healthcare system

you pay like 10 dollars a month and you get essential coverage

[reef vapor]

...? Usually the problem here is that if you can’t find a 'typical job' and you can’t find access easily.

atypical jobs would be like manual labor, not long term, some part time jobs I think.

[fair iris]

wait so you cant get insurance there without a job?

oh its not the same then

[reef vapor]

I’m not sure

[fair iris]

pre-paid is that you pay a small fee each month to get health-care coverage

[reef vapor]

Yes

You can

[fair iris]

oh nice

[reef vapor]

But it costs more

[fair iris]

how much does it cost there?

[reef vapor]

Umm I’m not sure

It also depends on where you live

[plush crypt]

up here in Norway and Sweden, the state pays for some 98% of your healthcare bill. you still gotta pay a handsome 10-30€ or so, but it's usually not much more than that. this is regardless of your job and insurance; this even applies to private healthcare in Sweden

[reef vapor]

I found it

[plush crypt]

if you also spend some reasonable amount of money on healthcare in a year, you get a full refund and 100% free healthcare for the rest of the year. 400€ or something in Norway, limited to public healthcare. don't know what it is in Sweden

[reef vapor]

I live in New England which is VERY left leaning, but also in maine which is half far right,and half far left

[plush crypt]

there are definitely other solutions to what Argentina currently does. my Swedish taxes currently also lie at 24%, so it's nowhere as much as argentinians pay

[reef vapor]

So like I think about 180 per month

[fair iris]

wait but that is the premium plan

we pay 10$ for basic plan

[reef vapor]

Not the premium plan. The premium is what we call how much you pay

[fair iris]

woah thats a lot

[reef vapor]

Yup

Which is why so many find trouble being able to afford healthcare here

Which is why Obama Care was a thing. A lot of people hated it and many thought it didn’t do anything good, but i never had any experiences with it and don’t know enough about it.

[fair iris]

are there restrictions applied to healthcare companies? maybe the problem lies there

[reef vapor]

Hmm

What is the average income of an argintenian

[fair iris]

300 dollars

[reef vapor]

Per month or year?

[fair iris]

month

[reef vapor]

Ok

Here’s where the differences are

The average American income is 40,000 dollars.

[fair iris]

year?

[reef vapor]

Yes

[fair iris]

woah

i would be rich with that amount

[reef vapor]

That’s the average salary. If I am remembering correctly

Yeah.

[fair iris]

i can start eating sushi instead of noodles haha

[reef vapor]

The problem is— (if this comes off racist I don’t mean it in that way) —Argentina itself is poor

The country doesn’t have as large an economy as the US, so there isn’t as much to go around.

[fair iris]

not racist in any way, thats a true statement of reality

[reef vapor]

Ok

Good

And from what I’m hearing— I don’t know enough to state this as a fact, only prose — it seems the government of Argentina isn’t seeming to be doing much about it.

And that’s why you’re so against building new houses.

Because the country just simply doesn’t have enough money to let alone feed the people.

[fair iris]

Yes

[reef vapor]

What’s their name...

Umm

Jess

Kezz prolly came from a country which does have a larger pool of money.

[fair iris]

Crazy thing they openly stated on TV that inflation is not a monetary phenomenon

[reef vapor]

Which is why that confused them. I’ve only lived in a world where getting I don’t worry about where I’m going to get my meal from.

That’s why I asked you more questions. To understand the state of which your country is in economically.

[reef vapor]

Also you are correct. Inflation is literally a monetary problem

[fair iris]

I think that even if we were a rich country, making houses for the poor would not be a solution, but to lift restrictions to poor states so they can open business.

[reef vapor]

That makes sense

In America after they gained independence the big problem was taxes.

It’s very difficult to strike the balance of having enough money to be able to help the people and taking all the people’s money

Which is what Britain was doing to a point.

Also inflation could just be they are really bad at monitoring and printing money.

[reef vapor]

What restrictions do they have?

[fair iris]

oof

[reef vapor]

In us they are abouuut I think like 13 I’m not sure tho

[fair iris]

its a large list

[reef vapor]

Because of their history with taxes crippling people’s well-being in the early years... that’s why we have Republicans who are so against all the taxes.

[plush crypt]

this is with universal healthcare, free universal education, subsidised housing for youth, etc. though

[reef vapor]

Ok. We don’t have universal healthcare in the states tho

[fair iris]

lot of companies get broke because of "workers rights" so there is low employment because of that

[plush crypt]

indeed, so it's hardly comparable, which is entirely understandable

[fair iris]

opening a business in argentina is suicidal

[reef vapor]

You say ‘universal healthcare’ and half the people oppose it strongly and the other half are fighting harder. Most of the people who fight against it are worried that it will both increase taxes and decrease quality... which it does at least by a bit

[reef vapor]

?

Explain workers rights

[fair iris]

its a large list of laws implemented in "peronism"

basically a light way of communism

[reef vapor]

Oop

Yeahhh

Not good

[fair iris]

you have to pay like 12 years of work to people if you fire them

[reef vapor]

Holy—

Yeah

[fair iris]

imaginate that + covid

[reef vapor]

That’s broken

[fair iris]

everyone got broke

[reef vapor]

That’s gonna drive anyone into the ground

[fair iris]

politics say the problem of argentina are big corpos but literally they arent getting any money from argentina and they are leaving to brasil

mercadolibre has like 60% of the economy and they are losing money here

[reef vapor]

Hmm

Oop that’s not good

In us the big problem is big corpos and monopolies

[fair iris]

the president thinks capitalism is the problem of argentina so he is going more and more to communism

yes i heard of big corpos dominating some states

[reef vapor]

Maybe Apple, cough cough, you could use some of that apple tax to help some other countries who need it

[fair iris]

wallmart mcdonalds?

[reef vapor]

No

Those are the ones you prolly hear about

McDonalds doesn’t have a monopoly it’s just popular. A McDonald’s costs like a 100 a year to run I think

[fair iris]

i heard apple had factories in communist countries which workers are paid 1 dollars a month

[reef vapor]

It’s the most expensive of the chains to run

[fair iris]

wasnt there a problem with salaries on mc donalds?

15 dollars something

[reef vapor]

I’m not sure about that... I they’re still under US regulations so I think they’d get in more trouble if they did.

[reef vapor]

Oh wow

That’s a lot for a job at McDonald’s

Most people who work at Fast Food places are high schoolers, are payed the minimum wage legal, and don’t work for very long.

The big monopolies that are the problems

Are Amazon, Disney, and umm who else

There is one more

[fair iris]

oh yeah i heard amazon was a meme and there was a south park series of it

about the bad threating of workers

[reef vapor]

Microsoft in the early 2000s but Bill Gates learned his lesson.

Oh I didn’t know about that part.

[fair iris]

idk if its true but i heard they are all day making boxes

and dont get too much money

[reef vapor]

But yeah the whole thing around a monopoly is that they can pretty much do whatever they want (legally) without repricussions

[reef vapor]

They have machines that do that

I’m pretty sure

[fair iris]

i hope

[reef vapor]

The people who are there are running the machinery

Now about their pay I wouldn’t doubt any discrepancies there

[reef vapor]

Example, on a smaller scale, Apple can charge whatever they want for some of their accessories because they have control over them

Example of that they can charge $700 for the wheels on their PCs because no one else can make them

[fair iris]

lucky enough it isnt a real monopoly but yeah its a big problem

[reef vapor]

Not with Apple

But with Amazon it’s getting there

[fair iris]

isnt ebay available there?

or aliexpress

[reef vapor]

Amazon can sell produce for cheaper than everyone else and can literally run grocery stores out of business

[reef vapor]

Yes

But Amazon has a better infrastructure built

[reef vapor]

Never heard of it

[fair iris]

thats not a monopoly then tho

i will give ya an example

[reef vapor]

Okie

👌

[fair iris]

in argentina there is only one company that can give electricity to houses

[reef vapor]

Mhmm

[fair iris]

you know what that means?

[reef vapor]

They can charge whatever they want

[fair iris]

not only that

they can turn it off whenever they want

[reef vapor]

And take advantage of their buyers and do whatever low quality t— oh shoooooot

That’s not good

[fair iris]

we had no electricity for some days

luckily it didnt went off again for 3 days

and we have electric cooker

thing is real monopolies are worse than you think

[reef vapor]

So here is what I see. Monopolies work differently where I live than where you live

[fair iris]

i hope you dont ever suffer this kind of behaviours

[reef vapor]

Yeah

K

So monopolies seem to pose different threats where we live

[fair iris]

yes

[reef vapor]

The threat for us is that monopolies drive out local business and can ramp up unemployment.

[fair iris]

well the difference is that in argentina already drive out local business

[reef vapor]

K

Yeah I see that now

[fair iris]

so its like a more advanced state of monopoly

[reef vapor]

That’s what we’re trying to avoid.

[reef vapor]

I would argue a different type of monopoly. The two places we live are structured economically very different. But your monopolies are definitely more severe in what they are allowed to do to you

Ours just give us 1st world problems most of the time. Sometimes tho they can make the economy far less stable and control what we consume

Then comes the issue of Disney controls what we consume...

[fair iris]

dollar price goes down by 5%

first world countries: oh nooo we are dying

south america: 😎👍

[reef vapor]

The big scare in the us is still communism, and the worry is that it’ll get to a point where the companies drive out all the others to a point where it reaches BnL from Wall E or a Chinese government censorship thing but controlled by companies

The whole communism scare really comes from the remnants of the Red Scare back in the fifties, but in a different form.

[fair iris]

i think that the only way companies can get this kind of behaviour is thanks to democracy

i mean, behind the curtains there is always restrictions preventing small business to compete with this big companies

[reef vapor]

Which is a problem because last time we focused too much on one threat— communism— thousands of people were killed and the fbi just ignored all of the reports of the people who were planning before it happened

Why— because they aren’t Russian they’re not gonna hurt us

What did they do? 9/11

[fair iris]

oh no...

that makes sense

[reef vapor]

Yup

When you focus too much on one thing you lose focus

In that case they ignored the reports of a terrorist group rising because they were worried the remnants of the soviets would attack

Also: entirely unrelated

My Uncle spent two years living in Argentina when he was 19-21 years old

I think two of my father’s brothers did, but I’m not certain. I’m only sure about one.

[reef vapor]

I feel like something should be done about that.

Only problem the US is too afraid of war to do anything about it. And most governments would be too afraid of the company

There are ways to make self sustaining electricity dynamos that are relatively accessible

Prolly not as much as the company can provide but still something.

[fair iris]

The problem is that argentina like communism

The people is contaminated

Peron was like a "light communist" president and indoctrination was done. There is people defending him because he gifted stuff to the poor and the books talk about him like he was a god.

But no one talks about the inflation boom that he generated, the explosion of poverty and corruption

[reef vapor]

Oop ohhh noooo

That’s not good

[fair iris]

Atleast we are not as bad as Venezuela with chavez, it makes me sad to hear him expropiating businesses...

[reef vapor]

Communism and fascism are not good

[fair iris]

the old videos of him saying "expropiese!"... all the families that have lose their jobs

[reef vapor]

That’s so sad

I think people need to be taught about

Y’know

The dangers of radicalism

[fair iris]

By the way whats the difference between fascism and communism?

[reef vapor]

K

So

[fair iris]

I mean they are both state controlled right?

[reef vapor]

What are the two political parties in Argentina

[fair iris]

"peronism" and "anti-peronism" but they are both communist and vote the same laws haha

[reef vapor]

Oop

Haha

So

Umm

[fair iris]

well not anti-peronism just.... i dont know... the same

the leader of that political party said peron was good so...

[reef vapor]

Oop

[fair iris]

but there are small politic parties too

nationalists, leftists and libertarians

[reef vapor]

Ok

So the country seems to be very left leaning then

Ooh no nationalists....

I only say oh no

[fair iris]

Yeah it can lead to bad things....

[reef vapor]

Because there was a similar party in the US back in the 1800s that was umm

Basically almost caused a civil war

They were basically the fundamentists of the constitution

You still want me to explain the differences between communism and fascism?

[fair iris]

sure

it will be appreciated

[reef vapor]

Ok

Both bad

Communism is good in theory

I guess so is fascism is too in other ways

But both are horrible in practice

Communism is more like left leaning of the two. Everybody is the same. Everybody should have equal opportunity no more no less. There is a class system I think but it’s ehhhh not good.

Everybody works together to help the people

All these ideas aren’t bad.

There are some times in history, LDS church being persecuted, when that was the only way they were able to survive.

It wasn’t communism tho

It was more religious socialism

If you look it up go to their website everything else on the internet about their church is very bias against them and in my experience not true or miscontruing of information

[fair iris]

hmm that doesnt seem good on theory either, people is different and thats part of their nature

[reef vapor]

Yeah

The good in theory part is that everybody works together

And if you have surplus you can donate it to people who weren’t able to be that fortunate

That’s essenstially what happened with the church thing I was talking about.
THE CHURCH THING I AM REFERRING TO IS NOT COMMUNISM IT WAS MILD SOCIALISM AFTER THEY WERE DRIVEN OUT OF PLACE AFTER PLACE

But where it splits is in communism

It’s forced upon you

And you don’t have a choice

Also the gov has control over who gets what and the gov has very little limitations and corrupt people usually gain power and all the surplus and more goes to the leader who doesn’t need it

Examples

Cuba, North Korea, and the Soviet Union

The good in theory gets canceled out by the very real life problem of corruption

Communism works in Minecraft. I’ve done it before. It worked

But in real life people’s lives are on the line and the ‘throne’ often falls into the wrong hands

[fair iris]

but doesnt people work together in capitalism too?

[reef vapor]

Yeah but no

[fair iris]

i mean business depends on other business right?

[reef vapor]

Those two are oppisites

In communism everything goes to the gov economically and they spread it out

The gov has a monopoly over everything

And can control everything

ie: Censorship in China

[fair iris]

woah

[reef vapor]

Yeah

That’s why when you said most people are pro communism it shocked me

[fair iris]

they ignore the results

[reef vapor]

And if you aren’t convinced of the dangers of communism

[fair iris]

and think about the theory only

"help the poor"

[reef vapor]

In China at one point the gov would force people to have abortions if they had already had a child

[fair iris]

didnt they kill their already alive childrens?

[reef vapor]

And nobody thought anything of it becuase the gov had taught then that that was the way

[reef vapor]

That I do not know

[fair iris]

omg

[reef vapor]

But that is a thing. In ... shoot

[fair iris]

so there is a point of no return?

[reef vapor]

What’s it called

[reef vapor]

Hmm

I’m not sure

Y’all don’t seem as far deep into it as China tho

China is successful which is one of the reasons they are able to keep it communism

Also

The fact that you are able to have this conversation with me that is anti communism is good.

That def shows that you aren’t at the point of no return. The point of no return is when ideas are fed to you and everything is controlled to convince you to think that submitting into horrible things is normal

[reef vapor]

I misread. Yeah. There is prolly. But eventually things fall apart. The soviets fell apart

But Russia just kinda went into another not very good state of being........

Time to explain fascism?

I can do that one too. This one is a lot easier because they taught me in history more about WWII than they did the Cold War.

The only reason I really knew about most of the Cold War stuff is conversations with people who lived in those times. ie: i had a choir conductor who was realllly old

[fair iris]

sure, sorry i am cooking... noodles of course

[reef vapor]

Noice

All good

I was able to get my electric guitar fixed while I waited

I built it myself so it just breaking randomly isn’t too out of the question

Fascism is similar

But farther to the right

Side of the spectrum of politics

[fair iris]

what does it mean?

it changes on the part of how they get money?

[reef vapor]

Umm

I think

Oooooooohhhh

Shoot

Now I see where this came from

So you know earlier I meantioned how radical nationalism is bad

So the economy

This is what I know off of wiki and US and World History

[reef vapor]

This as in nazis

My brain goes a million miles a minute

So:

Fascism: examples, the nazi nation... aannd

Well shoot

Apparently some people say Brazil....... I don’t think that’s necessarily true.

But apparently their latest president is at least a bit fascist

Sorry I got sidetracked

So. Fascism is ‘ultranationalist’

Essentially undying loyalty for their country

An example being the nazis believing that Germany was the best country ever and all others are dumb.

Their economic structure is like the opposite to communism

Theirs is focused on corporations

The bigger the better.

If I were to chose either I would chose neither

Chose democracy with good leaders. All systems have their flaws, but democracy isn’t the cause of monopolies. Because if it’s a democracy you should be able to say hey government this monopoly is causing us harm. Also the idea of democracy comes from the idea that the government is just an extension of the people

The government doesn’t rule the people, the government is the way the people organize themselves and get things done

But don’t fall into the trap that the French did and fall right into another government that didnt care

[fair iris]

wait i dont think bolsonaro is fascist he seems more like libertarian

and christian

more like.... the classic conservative

he is calling for companies from other countries to go to brazil, so i think thats not really nationalist

mercadolibre which leads the market in argentina is now doing great business there, and its probably leaving argentina soon haha

anyways, what do you think about anarchocapitalism?

[reef vapor]

Umm

Anarchy is bad

And complete company control is bad

[fair iris]

I mean its wrongly called anarcho but there are rules like the non aggression pact

and the terms in general of private stuff

[reef vapor]

Have you ever seen the Pixar movie Wall-E?

[fair iris]

yeah

[reef vapor]

Yeah that makes sense

[fair iris]

but that seems more like communism

[reef vapor]

That’s the worry with complete capitalism

Well

Actually not necessarily it was a company not a government

[fair iris]

if that were capitalism a company would be created to seek for solutions to the global warm and trash right?

[reef vapor]

Communism is government owns all the companies not company is the government

[fair iris]

and they would earn a lot of crash like that

oh right

[reef vapor]

Here’s the thing

The moral thing to do isn’t the most profitable

Moral or better for the environment

[fair iris]

yeah, the only way to get a company to do good for the world is if people cares about the world

[reef vapor]

That’s why it’ll take such a long time to convert to sustainable

[fair iris]

but thats the point, if people didnt care about the world in wall-e that probably means it wasnt that important

[reef vapor]

If the people running the companies

Yeah

They didn’t value it

[fair iris]

otherwise they would fight with the company

[reef vapor]

Yeah

But if the company controls your source of everything, batteries, power, food, appliances

At that point you can’t

[fair iris]

hmm i dont think thats possible as long as there is no goverment restricting people

[dusky raft]

Id put fascism more akin to what china is doing now

[fair iris]

i mean if 50% of the people starts disliking the company they will probably make their own like it was done in the past against kings and when people had nothing

[reef vapor]

aren’t they communism tho

[dusky raft]

fascism is part socialist

[fair iris]

i mean they both are nationalized companies right?

or highly controlled

[dusky raft]

pretty much to some degree, you have to be aligned by the communist party in order to own a business

nazi germany pretty much made that a rule also

[reef vapor]

... ehhhhh that makes sense i guess but a massive part of fascism is being rediculously to the right ...

But yeah I guess that makes sense

[reef vapor]

Yeah. The difference tho is that government is the company in Wall E the company is the government

Very similar tho

They both serve the same function

[fair iris]

woah

but companies dont have rights over people unless they agree right?

[dusky raft]

@fair iris what companies?

depends on the state, size of the company, and how much the company can throw at the state/lawyers

[reef vapor]

Yeah.

A company doing that would be very unlikely

Cuz laws and crap

Not crap

Jazz

https://tenor.com/view/you-like-jazz-jazz-bee-bee-movie-you-wanna-dance-gif-7542753

Sry i had to

[warm ibex]

I mean not really, socialism is about class warfare, fascism is about class collaboration, if you read the mussolini and gentile's doctrine of fascism they say that their ideology is the opposite of socialism the whole way through

Such a conception of life makes Fascism the resolute negation of the doctrine underlying socalled scientific and Marxian socialism, the doctrine of historic materialism which would explain the history of mankind in terms of the class struggle and by changes in the processes and instruments of production, to the exclusion of all else.

Fascism is therefore opposed to Socialism to which unity within the State (which amalgamates classes into a single economic and ethical reality) is unknown, and which sees in history nothing but the class struggle. Fascism is likewise opposed to trade unionism as a class weapon

Mussolini was certainly in favor of inequality as he said that fascism asserts the irremediable and fertile and beneficent inequality of men , do you think any socialist would agree with that?

[obtuse ridge]

Dick Cheney made money of the Iraq war

[warm ibex]

he certainly did

[reef vapor]

Another support of what @warm ibex said

The Soviet’s fought technically with us in WWII against the Nazi’s because they were against their ideology

[glossy sandal]

Soviets fought nazis in ww2 because they got invaded and millions of their citizens were slaughtered and their land burned lol

Soviets actually worked with nazis before they backstabbed them

So wouldn't use that as an example

[reef vapor]

Okie

Well their ideology was the exact opposite is the point

But their methods were similar and we just clump the two together cuz bad

[keen swift]

The Soviets didn't fight the Nazis because of ideology, they fought them because they had invaded the Soviet union. Before Barbarossa, the Soviets thought of them as allies because of there non aggression pact and were sending oil/steel to the Germans to help there war effort. And they had a joint occupation of Poland.

[foggy fern]

The US didn't fight them because of ideology either, no one knew about the camps until later and a decent chunk of the US agreed with their views in general

We probably would have fought them eventually to help the UK but Japan dragged the US in to the war

[warm ibex]

Not necessarily

the spanish civil war was a proxy war between the soviets and the nazis

that could be considered on the basis of ideology

although later on the soviets eventually betrayed the anarchists, being marxist leninists and all

[glossy sandal]

[warm ibex]

lol

[glossy sandal]

how does that have anything to do with soviets vs nazi germany in ww2

[warm ibex]

because it shows they opposed each other ideologically?

the nazis also pushed the judeo bolshevik myth and hitler called marxism a "jewish doctrine"

[foggy fern]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Bolshevism

[faint radish]

https://babylonbee.com/news/cnn-airs-report-on-fox-news-airing-report-on-cnn-airing-report-on-fox-news

Good stuff here

I did always think it’s kinda funny when news orgs report on what other news orgs say. 🤷

[near glen]

Here they are just used as a source

"as politican X told newspaper Y"

[faint radish]

That’s common here too, but sometimes it’s reporting literally on what they said, and how they said it or smth

Reporting on a news orgs commentary on something

Instead of reporting the underlying story, and mentioning it was reported by whoever

[near glen]

I mean, your landscape is so fucked, I can see how it is of interest for a viewer of one side to learn how a topic is portaid on the other side

Helps you understand more background when speaking with ppl that primarily consume such content

But yeah, it's mostly stupid

[near glen]

!warn @velvet kite #politics isn't a meme channel

[feral hearth]

:raised_hands: Warned Denis#7129 (#​738890587721302097 isn't a meme channel) [1 total infraction] -- MiniDigger#3086.

[plush crypt]

mfw mini is mere seconds too fast

[near glen]

Wait

I fucked up

Lmfao

[plush crypt]

oh yes

?warn @stuck roost Politics is not a meme dump

[feral hearth]

:raised_hands: Warned Denyell#2004 (Politics is not a meme dump) [1 total infraction] -- Proximyst#6900.

[plush crypt]

we'll fix the warning, Denis! sorry :/

[near glen]

Can you fix, am on mobile

[plush crypt]

ye

it's not a meme dump

[near glen]

Thanks :)

This is a discussion channel, not your Instagram page

If you wanna start a discussion do it properly, not dumping a list of memes

As an European, all I can say it's a shit show

Ah yes

Nice discussion

[warm ibex]

should stop acting like global police and stay neutral in foreign affairs

should also start rapidly moving toward a more democratic and labor centered economy

[foggy fern]

Someone has always tried to act like world police, I suspect if the US really did pull back on all of that Russia and China would just move in

They already are so this is an easy bet

[near glen]

Instead give the UN more power

Not some single nation

[foggy fern]

The brits were doing it before the US and before that it was a mix of UK, France, and Spain

[keen swift]

I moved here(U.S.) from Australia a few years ago, and U.S. politics is just 😩

I Like Australian politics better

[warm ibex]

yeah but like, we're spending trillions of dollars in these countries that don't pose any threat to us that we could be spending improving the lives of american citizens

[keen swift]

I agree, but we are also improving the lives of people in the other countries

[warm ibex]

there are other ways to do that rather than interfering in foreign conflicts whenever we feel like it

and sometimes we don't improve the lives of people, we make them worse

look at iraq and libya

[keen swift]

what if Russia intervened, it would be alot worse

I agree that the US has done bad, but there are also good aspects of it aswell

[warm ibex]

well i don't like russia but it's not like the us is right and russia is wrong every single time

[keen swift]

Are you guys bro or anti biden?

I don’t really like eather of the candidates

[foggy fern]

He's better than the alternative, that's all you can ever get with US politics

[pure jetty]

ok

good one

[foggy fern]

Stop watching so much Newsmax

[pure jetty]

Yeah I can tell

Didn't need to tell us

[keen swift]

Trump took all the ppe from NE and send it downsouth

What news source do you read/watch

[pure jetty]

Keemstar probably

[keen swift]

Just fox?

[foggy fern]

Yeah, fighting for people named Trump

[keen swift]

Hes fighting for half the people

And fighting the other half

[pure jetty]

lol they follow keem on twitch

[keen swift]

I just dont like eather anyway lol

[pure jetty]

seems to be speaking correctly

[shut vine]

I think in general thinking any of the currently in power politicians are fighting for people is heavily misguided. People on both sides tend to do this. While someones policies and actions may appeal to a specific group of people that doesn't necessarily mean that they are.

[pure jetty]

so far your only criticisms of Biden are adhoms

[shut vine]

This applies to Trump, Biden, Sanders, AOC.

[keen swift]

I think biden has done good so far with getting out vaccines

[shut vine]

They just want power, and the more people allow them to get that without delivering their promises the more the world will go to shit.

[pure jetty]

btched?

[keen swift]

What about trump reopening early, and spreading covid faster

[pure jetty]

inflation is not going up any more then the control rate

[warm ibex]

gas prices rised because of a cyber terrorism attack on a pipeline

[pure jetty]

and gas prices have NOTHING to do with the president

[shut vine]

The vaccine rollout has been steady since it started to be honest.

[keen swift]

No it doesn’t

Where is your source for that

100 million deaths

[warm ibex]

even if this was true, you're fine with 3,300,300 (1% of us population) dying?

[keen swift]

You can also get covid multiple times

[warm ibex]

because you said the country should have never shut down because of a 99% survival rate?

implying that you don't care about the 1%

[shut vine]

What does the death rate have to do with the question posed?

[keen swift]

It might be 1% everytime your exposed, but ifyour being exposed 100s of times

That’s probably gonna kill someone

Its better then dying

[shut vine]

I mean, that's not Biden

[foggy fern]

Restaurants and such were going to die anyway, I think Sweden was a good example for that

[shut vine]

The president has little control over what individual jurisdictions do

[keen swift]

If we closed down when covid first started, it wouldnot be as big

[shut vine]

The argument Trump did this, Biden did this, when the jurisdiction is that of states or cities is just uneducated

[foggy fern]

They didn't do a required lockdown and instead just got most of their population to take it seriously and people still didn't go out to eat or to the movies and such

[pure jetty]

Dr Fauci has no power

[foggy fern]

They ended up with just as much of an economic hit as their neighbors who did lockdowns too

[warm ibex]

you cite the cdc and you're against fauci?

[shut vine]

Regarding lockdown's, absolutely he doesn't.

[pure jetty]

Fauci is an advisor