#politics

1 messages · Page 64 of 1

shut vine
#

I would imagine it will be a partial victory for both sides, to be honest.

#

Apple will be forced to make changes, but Epic wont get everything they want.

near glen
#

Something like allowing 3rd party app stores

#

Epic doesn't expect to get everything they want

pure jetty
#

No that won't happen

#

Not even close

near glen
#

We will see

pure jetty
#

If epic gets anything it would be being able to advertise another purchase location

#

Judging by the judges commentary

near glen
#

Which is already a huge win for all app developers

pure jetty
#

But 3rd party appstores won't happen, that literally outlaws walled gardens

near glen
#

Spotify has been demanding that for years

#

And hey, even if epic looses on all counts and apple isn't forced to change anything, we got an EU case in the works

#

And we a bit more progressive over here

pure jetty
#

Yeah you got a bunch of fucking morons

shut vine
#

I mean, I can see that happening at some stage, provided Apple are allowed to dictate a warning and that the store cannot use the ApplePay thing.

pure jetty
#

the shit some of your anti trust members post on Twitter is so stupid

near glen
#

To an American

#

We roll differently over here

shut vine
#

I also do not see why they couldn't allow third parties to have their own store, and their own store being able to award licenses to linked accounts.

near glen
#

When I watch American news I loose all faith for humanity

shut vine
#

i.e. the store is on the web.

near glen
#

You can't even agree to investigate a terrorist attack on your capitol

pure jetty
#

but we still get shit done

near glen
#

Somehow, yes

#

Imagine how much you could get done if ppl would work together

pure jetty
#

meanwhile the EU is trying to generate revenue through antitrust fines alone

#

cannot wait for the day someone just tells them to fuck off

#

I would find that entertaining

near glen
#

And loose the european market?

#

Ppl thought that would happen with gdpr, but you all adopted our requirements

pure jetty
#

I would love to see who blinks first tbh

#

and gdpr is a drop in the bucket

#

outlawing a business model would fuck over a ton more

near glen
#

There are so many buisness models that are outlawed, I don't get that point

#

Oh no, we outlawed the buisness model of slavery, how will society survive that

pure jetty
#

good one?

shut vine
#

That's a method of labor, not a business model.

pure jetty
#

slavery and walled garden are not remotely comparable

shut vine
#

Unless you mean selling slaves

pure jetty
#

and this wouldn't just affect apple

#

Your Samsung smart fridge would now need to require 3rd party app stores

#

So would your smart toaster

near glen
#

Jokes on you, my Samsung smart fridge is android and allows sideloading

#

And yes, this kinda ties into right to repair, having access to the software of your devices is a good thing

shut vine
#

Well they should take that away

#

So you can't do that anymore

near glen
#

It's my device, I don't need no company to tell me what to do with it

#

It's ma freedum

pure jetty
#

right but the company should have a control of the experience

#

If the smart toaster doesn't want to allow 3rd party apps it shouldn't have to

near glen
#

I disagree

pure jetty
#

And part of what people pay for, like or not, when they buy an apple phone is the safety of a walled garden

near glen
#

Unless there is a technical limitation, an arbitrary restriction is anti consumer

#

Burry the switch for side loading deep down, if I toggle it, I knowingly throw away that sense of security

#

That's a really bad argument

pure jetty
#

So would you allow apple to void your warranty if you used 3rd party app stores

shut vine
#

I think a company should be able to do that, just like a company should be able to preload apps. cough EU vs Microsoft cough

near glen
pure jetty
#

Ok at least you're consistent on that

near glen
#

But they should provide warranty if the damage is impossible to be cause by software

shut vine
#

Yeah I'm fine with a button that comes up with a warning to accept, that allows you to install 3rd party stores that voids your warranty in the event of software fault.

near glen
#

Warrenty is a ew topic in general, companies get away with too much

pure jetty
#

I just feel that being forced to give users a pathway to void their warrenty is not ideal

shut vine
#

I personally am for Apple having more freedom in the area of screwing their customers as much as possible, we all know they'd love to do more of it.

near glen
#

But like, if I can install a malicious app that destroys hardware, that's a pretty big deal for apple anyways, would be a huge security issue

#

No app should have that kinda access, sideloaded or not

#

Anyways, I gotta sleep, we will see what comes out of this

urban vector
#

It's pretty clear that time and time again people have said "this EU regulation will destroy business and companies will just leave" but that literally never happens

torn wadi
#

Most are aimed at giant companies anyway. They cry publicly about it, implement the changes and move on to the next thing to cry about.

#

It's fun not having nicknames on Facebook anymore btw.

pure jetty
#

I don't think EU will destroy companies per say

urban vector
#

Yeah, despite literally nobody knowing why they did that

#

Plenty of companies have continued to operate similar services, including all that child protection stuff they ranted about having to remove

pure jetty
#

Even outlawing walled gardens wouldn't destroy apple

#

It's just something that would probably end up having a negative effect in the long run

urban vector
#

Yeah, but to whom is the main point of contention

pure jetty
#

Right

#

Idk most of the EU antitrust shit I see makes me think they're just trying to score optics points

#

Especially considering their lead members statements on Twitter

#

Pretty PepeMods

warm sonnet
#

well the government is the most inefficient sector of the economy

fleet plover
#

yeah that's right

#

take a country like the us

#

look at the most inefficient sectors

#

they are all government run

shut vine
#

The main reason I'm against antitrust used in the sense of walled gardens is it removes the option for a consumer to voluntarily engage in business with a company that offers that service

warm sonnet
#

that's why coutnries likt ehs soviet union that had complete government control had lots of economic stagnation

pure jetty
#

Government inefficiency isn't generally something that kills a program

urban vector
#

optics for who? the eu isn't some small fry political scene, it's a big fat bulky waste of space that doesn't do anything to score points or win votes

#

heck i wish they actually did lmao

pure jetty
#

Governments can't respond to market signals as fast but it doesn't mean you kill programs

shut vine
#

That's generally what happens when you give a person a boat load of money and tell them to spend it wisely.

fleet plover
#

The govenrment needs to be abolished entirely tbh

#

if you want something done right hand it to the private sector

warm sonnet
#

well I mean

#

that should probably be a long term goal

urban vector
#

in fact, you could easily argue the eu ends up being the punching bag for a lot of these unpopular policies

warm sonnet
#

doing that immediately would be chaos

fleet plover
#

yeah of course

pure jetty
#

Lol the anarchists found paper politics

fleet plover
#

we are anarcho capitalists

warm sonnet
#

I don't like labels

shut vine
#

Government can't realistically be abolished for a successful society. There has to be a body responsible for setting the standards by which we organize society.

fleet plover
#

No not really

urban vector
#

nobody ends up saying "ah yes, the gdpr is great" but nobody in power stopped it going through

fleet plover
#

There's an NAP for that

#

Non aggression principle

faint radish
#

oh yeah, I posted an invite to #politics in r/anarchy

urban vector
#

nap lmfao

warm sonnet
#

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle#:~:text=The non-aggression principle (NAP,their%20property%2C%20is%20inherently%20wrong.&text=In%20contrast%20to%20pacifism%2C%20the%20NAP%20does%20not%20forbid%20forceful%20defense.

Non-aggression principle

The non-aggression principle (NAP), also called the non-aggression axiom, is a concept in which "aggression", defined as initiating or threatening any forceful interference with either an individual or their property, is inherently wrong. It is considered by some to be a defining principle of libertarianism in the United States and is also a pro...

urban vector
#

when did i fall into a crèche

shut vine
#

NAP has nothing to do with societal organization?

fleet plover
#

well what did you mean by that then

shut vine
#

Infrastructure?

fleet plover
#

Bruh

#

that can be done by the private sector

warm sonnet
#

this ^^^

pure jetty
#

Anarcho anything is mega cringe and there is a reason it never works

shut vine
#

It usually is, but it's organized by goverment

faint radish
#

anarcho-authoritarianism

pure jetty
#

take a look at industrial age Britain and tell me how unregulated capitalism works

urban vector
#

nah it's fine all these private companies will just help those who can't help themselves

warm sonnet
pure jetty
#

that's my point

urban vector
#

that's worked out so well this far

warm sonnet
#

you can't make conclusions about the results of something

#

without trying it

fleet plover
#

Agreed

#

that's basic science

pure jetty
#

so with no government oh mighty ones

faint radish
#

man, I dont know whatll happen if I blow myself up cause I havent tried it before...

shut vine
#

That's a fallacy.

warm sonnet
faint radish
#

but I havent, its different

urban vector
#

that is literally nothing like how science works - you can postulate that 2+2!=5 without doing the workings out lmfao

warm sonnet
#

okay .. that's not our argument

faint radish
#

you dont know that, you havent tried it

fleet plover
pure jetty
#

I'm not even engaging this shit lmfao if you believe in any kind of anarchy you're so far gone it's impossible to convince you of anything

faint radish
#

thats basic science, you cant know the result of something without trying it

foggy fern
#

Wait are there real ancaps here?

warm sonnet
foggy fern
fleet plover
#

Here I am

shut vine
#

The world has yet to try the government system by which everyone kisses my ass.

warm sonnet
#

you know

shut vine
#

I doubt that is a workable system however.

warm sonnet
#

Our source for this is Ayn Rand

#

Ayn Rand fled the horrors of soviet communism in the 20s

foggy fern
#

Ayn Rand is a joke

urban vector
#

clearly we cannot claim that a world society where we all worship me as a supreme deity is bad as it has not yet been tried

shut vine
#

However, if you'd like to help me start trying that system, you're welcome to

fleet plover
#

this is a good source

warm sonnet
#

prageru lol

foggy fern
#

PragerU, this shit just keeps getting better

pure jetty
#

Prager OMEGALUL

warm sonnet
#

prageru is pretty shit

fleet plover
#

Yeah pragerU is bad

urban vector
#

prague u hahahahahahahaha

fleet plover
#

but this one video

urban vector
#

lmfao

fleet plover
#

this one video is okay

foggy fern
#

I feel like I'm talking to a meme

urban vector
#

sure jk sure

warm sonnet
#

PragerU is propaganda

#

why tf you posting their video

fleet plover
#

THIS ONE VIDEO

faint radish
#

this is too good

urban vector
#

this one video is clearly the diamond in the steaming warehouses full of shit

fleet plover
#

NOT THE WHOLE CHANNEL

pure jetty
#

"man this company sucks but since this one video agrees with me this one video is ok"

restive seal
#

PragerU lol

warm sonnet
pure jetty
#

Omega fucking lol

fleet plover
#

if you hate mcdonalds burgers you can still order their fries

pure jetty
#

Ok I'm gonna be more productive and go bang my head against the wall

warm sonnet
#

then don't post the invite in r/anarchy

pearl plinth
#

PragerUwU what the fuck is going on here

faint radish
#

I was def joking when I said I posted an invite

#

lol

warm sonnet
#

i'm sure you were kekwhyper

urban vector
#

i was so down for an interesting and nuanced discussion on eu vs us policies on consumer rights someone tell me why i expected that from #politics

faint radish
#

oh man, this is great stuff

fleet plover
#

are you familiar with the economic calculation problem?

urban vector
#

id rather go dev for yatopia than discuss the eu with an ancap

warm sonnet
#

or we could debunk keynesian economics?

restive seal
faint radish
#

yeah, more Yatopia Devs!

shut vine
#

I mean, to be fair, just because most of someones ideas are insane, doesn't mean all of them are either; it's just a strong indication. You would however need to figure out why the particular idea you think is good is actually good, just because you agree with it isn't a good enough reason.

warm sonnet
#

Keynesians don't understand economics

#

"great depression was caused by the private sector" stoopid

pearl plinth
fleet plover
#

ben shapiro is an idiot

#

he doesn't understand how being transgender works

foggy fern
#

We haven't practiced Keynesian economics since the 70s anyway

warm sonnet
#

yeah

#

theres a differnece between sex and gender

pearl plinth
#

Nah I'm talking about his superior weeb cousin

fleet plover
restive seal
warm sonnet
#

🤷

pearl plinth
#

If you use Reddit at all you are immediately at a loss

urban vector
#

what's next, water is wet?

daring locust
#

no

warm sonnet
#

oh I

#

i'm good at biology

pearl plinth
#

Water isn't wet it makes things wet duh

fleet plover
#

I took honors bio in 11th grade

urban vector
#

the things include water tho chew

pearl plinth
#

It makes itself wet

#

What came first the water or the wet

urban vector
#

yeh exactly, so unless we have a single molecule of water, it's wet

faint radish
#

damn guys, we got an honors bio grad in here

#

hold up

#

need to listen now

pearl plinth
#

I graduated on the exact bottom of my class in understanding the situation

urban vector
#

11th grade?? does that trump my undergrad courses in gender theory???

fleet plover
#

yes

shut vine
#

Water does some odd things above 374C

fleet plover
#

gender studies is a useless major

#

liberal arts is pretty useless

urban vector
#

when did i say gender studies

#

can you read

fleet plover
#

they should put more funding into physics

#

@pearl plinth omg

pure jetty
#

Man if there was a case for funding public schools

fleet plover
#

no

#

no no no

#

public schools bad

#

private is the way forward

faint radish
#

why did you say smth JRoy... smh

fleet plover
#

why do you think school grades are declining?

pearl plinth
#

I've been to public and charter, and college, they all suck

warm sonnet
#

hi olivia

pure jetty
#

idk I'm sure you're familiar with that tho

pearl plinth
#

Why am I so famous now

warm sonnet
#

omg

#

we're from the place

#

you were just at

pearl plinth
#

I don't know you

warm sonnet
#

and we told you to scroll up

#

YES YOU DO

pearl plinth
#

I only know Rory fans

warm sonnet
#

ok i just pingedf you

#

go check

umbral fiber
#

Ah this is the context, i was confused why you were pinging her lmao

warm sonnet
#

wait Matt

#

you're here too

#

matt pls no

faint radish
#

chew hangs out with ancaps? 😱

fleet plover
#

guys don't mind matt

#

he likes to strutt around like a toddler expecting people to take his cereal box police badge seriously

#

that's a bit harsh

#

but you get the picture

umbral fiber
pearl plinth
#

Listen I don't remember names if you're on 2 different servers I treat you as 2 different people

#

Unless you have literally any notability

fleet plover
#

Everyone I have an important announcement

#

I strongly dislike bashar al-assad

#

carry on now

faint radish
#

What government? Where? Doesn’t matter. It’s The government

foggy fern
#

uk

#

Nope, Peru

brisk cradle
#

Oh, an ancap showed up here

#

The problem with anarcho-capitalism is that while its tenets look good on paper, in practice it would basically result in replacing the state with some corporation acting in the capacity of a state (and likely dissolving into little city-states not before too long). Minarchism does a bit better here by whittling down the government to do little more than the courts, law enforcement, and a military, but then how do you fund the operation of a minarchist government? Under the NAP, would people in an anarcho-capitalist society be willing to find the state even in its truncated form? And I think the answer is "no". Many right-libertarians oppose taxation with the reasoning that it is a taking of property. Would they suddenly be okay with a minarchist government having a taxation system?

#

In my view, the NAP is precisely the tenet that causes the right-libertarian government to fail at its job.

#

Eh, what can I say? I'm an admirer of left-wing ideology.

#

LeftValues says I'm a democratic socialist.

#

I should probably also mention that an anarcho-capitalist society would be hardly competitive. The amount of bureaucracy potentially required would be almost comical.

#

It would make the present-day US federal government look sane in comparison.

foggy fern
#

Next closest match was Left-Wing Nationalism 😛

brisk cradle
#

Apparently I am also eco-anarchist

unknown.png
#

Anarchist, democratic socialist, or left-wing nationalist, take your pick.

foggy fern
pure jetty
#

Not really a socialist but uhh there's mine

foggy fern
#

lol it basically just called you naive

pure jetty
#

fuckin machine

#

Didn't really know how to answer some of the questions because I just disagree with their entire premise

#

Didn't know whether to answer them as a socialist or not so I kinda swapped halfway thru

eager hawk
#

i did a different version of that test and with conservative answers, got social libertarian

#

i guess i'm a neoliberal/centrist after straying as a dem soc for some time lol

pure jetty
#

Feel like labels are only used to put you down in the first place

warm ibex
#

utopian socialism has been dead since engels killed it

#

unless you count makhno

urban vector
#

You can't really do the test if you're not a leftist imo it kinda falls apart and doesn't really work

near glen
#

Kek

opal moat
glossy sandal
warm ibex
#

pretty sure that's called mutualism

#

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutualism_(economic_theory)

Mutualism (economic theory)

Mutualism is an anarchist school of thought and economic theory that advocates a socialist society based on free markets and usufructs, i.e. occupation and use property norms. One implementation of this system involves the establishment of a mutual-credit bank that would lend to producers at a minimal interest rate, just high enough to cover adm...

tough cedar
#

yesterday was the last day for the texas legislature and they didn't get to pass their voting bill because the democrats just walked out of the building lol

pseudo drift
#

jesus christ, this is terrible

plush crypt
near glen
#

That's my second closed match ^^

plush crypt
#

you were my next closest match too DANKIES

arctic tangle
#

A loooot of the questions were pretty yikes

#

Like.. hmmmm, nothing could possibly go wrong with instituting a global single party authoritarian regime

shy gulch
#

Here is my 8values

#

Not sure if I like left values

near glen
#

Can you send a link to that?

#

But that looks like how I would judge myself too

shy gulch
#

The 8values test?

near glen
#

Yeah

shy gulch
#

Just look up 8values, it’s pretty popular

#

I’d link but I’m on my phone

near glen
#

Am lazy, ok?!

shy gulch
#

Yup

#

That’s it

#

Yeah this LefrValues test is not for me

#

It assumes you are already very left leaning or a straight up socialist

near glen
#

Guess am a bit more extreme than you ^^

daring locust
#

here's mine i guess

wf89r1rtByQAAAABJRU5ErkJggg.png
#

NO

#

727's everyhwere

#

aaaaaaaaa

pure jetty
shy gulch
torn wadi
shy gulch
#

Don’t think anyone here is extreme enough for LeftValues

#

We all seem to share similar beliefs for the most part

torn wadi
#

There is another site that has even more questions, can't remember it's name tho.

#

Ah yes, 9Axes.

shy gulch
#

My friend linked me 12 values lol

#

For the most part you will get the same results

#

Just more questions

pure jetty
#

675 values

torn wadi
#

216 values. kekwhyper

shy gulch
#

My god

#

I don’t have the mental capacity to answer 216 questions to learn what I already know

#

Could take the political compass test

#

A lot of people don’t like it but I don’t think it’s too bad

foggy fern
shy gulch
cursive rose
urban vector
#

it's a leftist political compass test

glossy sandal
shy gulch
#

I took it and like most normal people got centered on mostly everything

#

Only on a leftist test could I be 48% conservative

pure jetty
#

i mean it defines leftist as socialist

#

if you're not a socialist it's pretty impossible to answer the questions

shy gulch
#

I missed that

#

I’m easily considered a leftist but im not a socialist

cursive rose
#

what does it say you are?

#

the cookies pop up is hiding it

shy gulch
#

“Centrist Marxism”

urban vector
#

what would you say you are?

#

because leftist is a very specific term that is different from stuff like left-wing or left-leaning

pure jetty
#

most of the left isn't socialism

#

lol

#

which is why its pretty silly to make a "left values" quiz that doesn't work if you're not a socialist

foggy fern
#

In the US at least my impression was to be a leftist rather than a liberal you had to at least be at the Democratic Socialism level

urban vector
#

i mean i feel like at least a socialist or of that ilk is a completely reasonable line to draw for leftist

pure jetty
#

i was talking more with the two general concepts of left and right

shy gulch
pure jetty
#

i guess if you want to go more deeper you could say leftist implies socialism

shy gulch
urban vector
#

i mean i think you'd find a lot of people who would reasonably say that socdem isn't leftist

pure jetty
#

but like leftist isn't descriptive

#

considering in the US we consider dems = left, repub = right

shy gulch
#

In the US a SocDem would be considered leftist

urban vector
#

maybe, but we're not all in the US

#

and a political ideology being on the left side of the overton window of a country's politics doesn't make it leftist

pure jetty
#

what do you define as leftist

#

just curious

shy gulch
#

True but the test never claims it’s specifically meant for outside the US. I’m not entirely sure what countries wouldn’t consider a SocDem a leftist.

urban vector
#

being critical of heirachy, anti-capitalist, proponent of more direct forms of democracy

pure jetty
pure jetty
urban vector
#

as well as all the standard pro equality, yadda yadda

shy gulch
#

I’m for just about all of those besides anti-capitalism... I’m for socialist reform and restricted/regulated capitalism but not a fully socialist society

urban vector
#

then yeah it's no surprise you didn't enjoy that test

shy gulch
#

I’d still consider myself a leftist though

#

I fit just about all of the beliefs, if the deciding factor is socialism then guess I wouldn’t be but I never thought it was.

pure jetty
#

I mean it's a subjective label anyway

#

It doesn't mean anything

#

at least across political cultures it is

urban vector
#

i think one of the core tenants of leftism is being anti-capitalist - that's where the term originates from and what most people agree with

pure jetty
#

most people in the united states won't agree with that

urban vector
#

but yeah, it's all arbitrary and meaningless anyway - as the high value for constructivism on my test would tell you :')

shy gulch
#

I mean you could even call me anti-capitalist just not to the extent of completely replacing it with something like socialism

#

I heavily criticize capitalism

pure jetty
#

I mean all Dems are critical of capitalism, just the socialists think the solution is replace the entire economic system with worker co-ops while everyone else is for government checks

shy gulch
#

I’m not exactly for government checks. I believe the government covering certain services and necessities is a good investment for our economy..

pure jetty
#

oh i didn't mean like cash checks

#

I mean like checks on capitalism

shy gulch
#

Oh lol

#

Yeah sure

#

I think a mixture is a viable option

#

Socialist and capitalist values

pure jetty
#

well no there is nothing socialist about socdems

shy gulch
#

I think both a pure free market and pure socialist society are both bad ideas

pure jetty
#

socialism is worker co-ops towards abolition of capital (depending on who you ask)

foggy fern
#

Right and this is the difference between Social Democrats and Democratic Socialism, even though in the US they're treated as the same thing

shy gulch
#

Some would consider universal government funded services to be socialist, though some call Joe Biden socialist as well....

foggy fern
#

(we like to butcher terminology)

pure jetty
#

socialism has nothing to do with government services

urban vector
#

yeah and some people are idiots :')

pure jetty
#

welfare isn't intrinsically socialist idea

shy gulch
#

No it’s not

#

You’re right

pure jetty
#

totally possible under capitalism

cursive rose
#

socialism is public ownership of the means of production, and there's a lot of ways to go about that, which is why there's so many different types of socialism

pure jetty
#

well not public ownership, worker ownership

shy gulch
#

Can people not have some form of ownership in the means of production within a somewhat free market?

cursive rose
pure jetty
#

no

#

public implies society

pure jetty
shy gulch
#

What if employees are given shares within the company as a benefit

shy gulch
pure jetty
#

I wouldn't call that socialism as socialism implies the workers have the only say

#

socialism doesn't think managers/ceos/etc provide utility and don't deserve say

#

(depending on who you ask)

#

these people never agree with each other

austere parrot
#

workplace democracy 🤩

shy gulch
#

It socialism but definitely a socialist ideal, you are giving the workers some mean of ownership within the company

cursive rose
pure jetty
#

if you want to define it that way sure

#

I personally wouldn't

cursive rose
pure jetty
#

ok

shy gulch
#

Not the most viable source

#

Always was told Socialism was the workers owning the means of production

#

Not simply the public

cursive rose
#

i know that's from investopedia, but go read more socialist literature; they use these terms synonymously

pure jetty
#

i mean it's just semantics

#

who cares

#

we both mean the same thing

dusky raft
#

Ie government owns the factory in place of the workers

foggy fern
#

It's not about managers specifically, it's about people making money just because they have money even though they don't really do anything

pure jetty
#

right, It implies anybody other than people doing physical work provide no extra utility

foggy fern
#

That usually gets expanded to people making "too much" money for the work they do

#

This is a real problem but usually only at the top of the org chart

#

The first layer or two of management are usually very busy people and if they make more money than workers it's not an obscene amount more

dusky raft
#

It is usually in the land of execs where things can get corrupted.

foggy fern
#

Yep, that's where they start making 100x what the workers do and seem to play golf half the day

cursive rose
#

yep, I don't see how it can be deemed meritocratic that executives get that kind of pay/bonuses for the work they produce

dusky raft
#

depending on the amount of workers, shifting an exec's pay to worker isnt that meaningful

cursive rose
#

£48,000 every hour of every day

pure jetty
#

for a casino i don't doubt it lmfao

foggy fern
#

Well, no, but the problem is that worker pay hasn't kept up with inflation because they wanted to give more money to shareholders instead

pure jetty
#

casinos have their own moral problems outside of whatever economic system you're in tho

dusky raft
#

their workers must have decent pay anyways considering its gambling

foggy fern
#

Executive pay also growing faster than inflation just makes the disparity obvious

dusky raft
#

oh, that is also including shares, its not salary alone

cursive rose
#

I'm not really that opposed to capitalism and markets, but it just seems wasteful that so much money ends up in the hands of executives that don't seem to deserve it

dusky raft
#

so she did invest in the company

#

so how much is salary/shares, I dont know

pure jetty
#

ah then its a bit misleading

#

people love to treat shares as liquid as cash

#

because it looks good in a headline

#

:>

dusky raft
#

bet365 also paid a dividend of £95m, signalling a separate windfall of around £45m for Coates, who owns more than half of the empire she built out of her father Peter’s Stoke-on-Trent bookmaking business.

#

most execs are shareholders

cursive rose
#

where does it say that the £421mill comes from shares? It says that Bet365 also paid out dividend

foggy fern
#

Eh, I don't think compensation in the form of stock being included in income is misleading

pure jetty
#

it totally is

dusky raft
#

shares arent fixed

pure jetty
#

like jeff beezo can't spend 1 trillion tomorrow

foggy fern
#

No but he didn't get given $1t in stock yesterday either

pure jetty
#

80% of his assets cannot be converted to cash remotely easily if not at all

#

selling stock as a c level or any other management level employee is a pita

#

and doesn't happen on giant scales

#

if it does, it's every once and a while

#

also selling stock also implies losing the control it awards

foggy fern
#

It does, you just don't pay attention 😛

dusky raft
#

oh, she owns 50% of the company

foggy fern
dusky raft
#

yeah, the pay makes sense really, at least the amount per year

pure jetty
#

under a prearranged trading plan

#

I guess i was implying it doesn't happen randomly

#

you have to disclose these things months in advance

foggy fern
#

Sure, you have to announce "I'm going to sell 1 million shares a month starting in 6 months" or whatever

dusky raft
#

atleast bezos isnt a total scumbag when it comes to his shares, zuckerberg is horrible in selling shares, expecting his shares to be non-voting when he sells off

pure jetty
#

i mean he does pay himself $1 in cash a year

#

i expect him to sell some shit off

foggy fern
#

And that is why you have to include stock when talking about yearly income for executives

pure jetty
#

if you want to talk about stock liquidated sure

#

but anything else is misleading

#

like i hate people throwing around net worth

foggy fern
#

I just think of it as "instead of getting $10m cash they let someone buy them $10m in stock instead"

#

It might be cheaper for the company to give out $10m worth of stock but when they were negotiating the contract this is how both sides were thinking about it

pure jetty
#

i mean paying ceos in stock makes alot more sense than cash too

#

incentives them to better the company

#

I'm also a fan of giving employees stock too

#

which sucked when amazon moved to $15/hr, they stopped giving stock to workers

#

so they get to say "SOYSOYSOY look at us we pay $15/hr, it should be the law of the land SOYSOYSOY" when it's just worse for their workers and a $15/hr wage would literally only benefit companies like them

dusky raft
#

amazon isnt the best company either, knowing that other companies would struggle going to $15/hr

#

hell, target still has issues going to $15/hr, reducing hours employees work

pure jetty
#

my point was bigger companies have the better chance at paying out $15/hr

#

since they have larger profits and can cut into it

#

hell big companies would probably love $15/hr

torn wadi
foggy fern
#

Thanks to Twitter now I know there are apparently KKK beauty pageants and someone kind of famous won one

#

I have no idea who this person is

pure jetty
#

that?

foggy fern
#

Yeah

pure jetty
#

i mean i don't think they knew much of what was going on

#

doubt they're actually racist then let alone today

foggy fern
#

I also have no idea what he is talking about 😛

#

But that seemed like a real 🤔 tweet

severe moat
#

THERE IS ACTUALLY A POLITICS CHANNEL IN PAPER LMFAO

#

IM DYING

#

MLFAOOOOOOOOOOOO

foggy fern
#

Yeah I don't think you're going to make it

near glen
#

With that attitude you are not gonna take part in this channel for long, lol

loud flax
#

so, what is justice if morality is subjective? i feel like this is a question that needs answering

#

because if politicians are going to make any sense of coherency to the people they serve, this is something that people need to think more on, I feel

#

i'm not sure what you guys think about this

torn wadi
#

In most of Balkan, money does the talking. Morality is ignored by the politicians if a bit of money is involved.

loud flax
#

hard to get away from that honestly

weary lake
#

Justice is just what the majority thinks (hopefully in a democracy). The majority thinks robbing a store is not allowed, therefore people who do rob a store are punished.

torn wadi
faint radish
#

Oh man, what a horrible idea of justice you have. If the majority thing it’s ok to murder someone, it’s OK?

loud flax
#

alright, well the majority thought it was ok to buy people up as slaves, quite awhile ago (fortunately that is not the case the majority of the time today)

faint radish
#

Justice cannot be entirely defined by a democracy.

weary lake
#

Not something I agree with, but if the majority does...

torn wadi
#

Doesn't the US have a law bypass thing that you shouldn't talk about and only comes into effect if everyone agrees?

faint radish
#

So slavery is OK to exist simply of a majority if the people say yes. That’s horrible.

foggy fern
faint radish
#

Slavery is “justified” if a majority are OK with it.

torn wadi
weary lake
#

Don't take that as I think it's correct. I don't.

faint radish
#

No, but you are saying it’s justified. Even if you don’t agree with it, it’s justified simply because 50%+1 say yes

loud flax
#

democracy is the best route, if you want to have a society of people with a bunch of different views, otherwise there is oppression (think totalitarian regimes)

weary lake
#

Ultimately what will happen in a democracy is that the majority agrees on something and that is in the end what will happen. If a majority thinks slavery is okay, slavery will become a thing again.

foggy fern
#

I swear I just watched a Philosophy Tube video about this

faint radish
#

In the US, the government is setup to protect against the tyranny of the majority

#

Ensuring that a majority cannot vote away their rights

weary lake
#

How will a democracy do something the majority is against? A party is created that wants to allow slavery again or a party switches view points to agree with it, and more and more people vote for that party (since a majority agrees with them). That party will lead and they will try to change the law. I don't see how in the end that will not happen?

faint radish
#

You can’t make slavery legal in the US with 50%+1

#

And my problem is that you think justice is defined by whatever the majority thinks

#

It might happen, but it’s not justice

loud flax
#

problem with that then is it's OUR justice, not theirs or yours, but OURS

weary lake
#

Well, let me rephrase, I don't think it's correct, I don't think it's justified, but globally that's what will happen.

faint radish
#

Ok, sure. That’s fine. But justice isn’t subjective in that macro of a sense

#

Obv a majority can change smaller things, but it’s can’t be justified to murder someone in cold blood simply because most people don’t have a problem with it

loud flax
#

yet if it's OUR justice, why? just because we want that? if there is no objective reason we want justice, and just want it "just because", well... that's not really justice at all

weary lake
#

Not a singular case, no. If I kill some shitty person, a majority may agree that they deserved to die, but I'm definitely going to prison. But if a majority agrees, and the laws change over time and now suddenly allow for people to kill whoever they feel like, well, then everyone can kill whoever they want.

loud flax
#

yeah that's scary

mystic ermine
#

I mean, moral and societal justification is basically a slider

#

We these days can say murder is wrong

#

We these days can say slavery is wrong

weary lake
#

If morality was objective, this wouldn't be an issue, but it isn't and we want some rules, so those rules are decided by the majority

mystic ermine
#

But, back in the old days, things like slavery was not seem as an issue

loud flax
#

i operate on the view that morality is objective

mystic ermine
#

Like, you're basically sitting on a high horse in which much of your whims have been satified by a machine

loud flax
#

considering the opposite view, that it is subjective, merely the fact that killing someone because you want to has the same moral value as donating to a charity, i don't want someone with that view making laws

mystic ermine
#

shamefully many nations considered there to be lesser people to take that part of the supply chain for stuff like your food, etc, and, it's wrong, but, practically everybody here has clothing on their back likely made in some chinese sweat factory

loud flax
#

to say we need rules to live is saying that it is objectively better to live in a society with rules than to live in one without

weary lake
#

If I had to choose between living in a society where everyone can do whatever they want and a society in which there were at least some basic rules in place ensuring that some random person isn't going to shoot me because they feel like it, I'd choose the latter.

#

Of course not every society with rules is better than a society without rules, it very much depends on the rules in place.

loud flax
#

yeah, that seems to work the best is when we have rules to live by

pearl plinth
#

Hot take: water

mystic ermine
# pearl plinth Hot take: water

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vCdHfyaDLM

YouTube
Cody'sLab
Drinking Deadly Hydric Acid? Will I Die?

I show off my favorite toxic chemical and drink a hopefully non lethal amount of it.
Here is a link for more info on this chemical: http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html
Since YouTube is probably going to demonetise this, you can help me make videos by donating here: https://www.patreon.com/CodysLab
Follow me on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/codyd...

▶ Play video
surreal delta
# cursive rose socialism is public ownership of the means of production, and there's a lot of w...

While that is true I think it’s a bit vague and may confuse some people (and potentially cause people misrepresenting socialism through equivocation), so I think this is a better descriptor:

• ⁠surplus product defined by the planned net output ratio of consumer goods to capital goods
• ⁠this in turn defines a planned ratio of the workforce producing items of consumption to non consumption output
• ⁠determined at the level of society as a whole, not emerging from private contract
• ⁠surplus value does not go as personal consumption of an owner class

dusky raft
#

@surreal delta if there is one thing I learned about socialism, is that no one, not even socialists, define the term socialism the same.

surreal delta
#

From my observation, most definitions of socialism from socialists are the same just different wording

dusky raft
#

ive had things wildly different, either to just higher taxes, more welfare (nordic model) to more inline communism

pure jetty
#

a shit ton of people just throw around the word because its hip and cool without knowing anything about it

#

socialism clearly means having works seize the means of production via worker co-ops anything else is a misuse of the word

dusky raft
#

pretty much

#

and co-ops dont really work that well on scale unless you have force to back it, which in turn leads to some form of communism

pure jetty
#

well yeah there are fundamental problems with socialism and worker co-ops in general

#

such as: how do you raise capital because worker co-ops would never get investors; if there is no capital, what businesses do the government approve and how does the government decide that; what amount of violence is acceptable in order to transition to socialism; how do people get assigned jobs without capital incentive; how does socialism create market signals

foggy fern
#

I always thought of realistic worker co-ops being something more like a not-for-profit organization but in the end you can probably extrapolate any system to being effectively a benevolent dictatorship

#

That's less true of a capitalist system but still the case

pure jetty
#

yeah co-ops can work for businesses that don't get investors or like a family business

foggy fern
#

Something like a cross between a guild and a not-for-profit organization

#

Basically the union owns the business

#

Then you turn every business into a mini-democracy. Union leaders can do whatever they think is right but if enough of the workers disagree they get voted out of their positions. If the workers insist on people who are bad at their jobs the company fails.

surreal delta
#

Anyways it’s just semantics, if you want to discuss socialism we need to mutually define it temporarily for our discussion to carry on

pure jetty
#

I was just explaining what socialism implies

surreal delta
#

worker co-ops imply businesses?

pure jetty
#

worker co-ops are one of the goals of socialism

surreal delta
#

socialist movements were historically against businesses and for planned economy

pure jetty
#

that's more communism

#

socialism is sometimes called a transition between capitalism and communism

surreal delta
#

communism is a specific ideology, socialism is a broad ideology that overlaps with many subvarients

pure jetty
#

socialism doesn't imply the abolition of businesses, rather the workers and only the workers should have complete control of businesses

surreal delta
#

Anywho, socialism was popularized by Lenin not by Saint Simon/Proudhon so it doesn’t matter

dusky raft
#

I wouldnt say popularized, but implemented in some way

#

there were people before lenin who wanted to transition away from capitalism of the late 1800s and early 1900s but didnt have the means to overthrow the current governments at the time.

surreal delta
#

Whom are largely irrelevant in history

dusky raft
#

Russia was perfect to overthrow considering how weak it was even before the world war

#

well actually Lenin overthrew the government that overthrew the czar

surreal delta
#

yeah mensheviks overthrew the tsar

warm ibex
cedar lintel
#

The "famous-name" philosophers that have advanced their -ism arguments have classically done so in a zero-sum context. Lemming advocates have, most often, continued the zero-sum arguments. It is a false narrative (and unimaginative) that implementing the -isms is a zero-sum game. Absolutely, the various and associated (in topic) -isms can co-exist; it simply takes honesty, willingness and open-mindedness.

Modernity disrupts (but does not eliminate) the maths of supply, demand, and greatest benefit (utilitarian) potentials. Too often now, stale-beliefs and bully-beliefs poison the forum that is absolutely necessary for a truthful, shared understanding of experimentation, evolution, and adoption of "better".

Ultimately, the push and pull comes down to the seeming eternal struggle AMONG the rights of the many AND the rights of the few or one. The "and"/"among" are critical to reframe the necessary and proper inclusive union of sets and subsets that the voices of "WE" (complete and entire sum of all life) need to argue for [ed opportunity,] support and survival. And where any member of WE has no voice, trustee voices with agency must be given fair access to the forum.

brisk cradle
#

Well, at least they know what the people of West Virginia could want: money, trucks, and guns. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMeEyLCWRBA

YouTube
NBC News
West Virginia To Offer Trucks And Guns As Covid-19 Vaccine Incentives

As 41 percent of West Virginia residents are fully vaccinated against Covid-19, the state is stepping up its incentives for vaccinations by offering trucks and guns to those who receive at least one dose of the vaccine. NBC News’ Gary Grumbach breaks down how West Virginia is hoping to bolster its vaccine rate with these new prizes.

» Subscrib...

▶ Play video
foggy fern
near glen
brisk cradle
#

NM-01 special election was won by Democrats as expected. But what you probably didn't expect was the margin. About the same as Biden's win there.

near glen
brisk cradle
#

That's good news for Democrats - perhaps 2022 may go better for them than the usual pattern.

#

It also comports with Republicans trying every attack they can against Biden and failing, therefore they have to attack Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Bernie Sanders, and the Squad just to get anywhere.

drifting arch
#

they could've have been on track w/ vaccines already (and im not even kidding you even slightly when i say this) but the government forgot to sign the paperwork in a timely manner. @near glen @opal moat

🙃

#

literal amateur hour

opal moat
#

🙃

near glen
drifting arch
#

yes

near glen
#

But they signed smth now?

drifting arch
#

Yeah they have a program now but it could've started in January instead of April

#

But some guy literally didnt sign the paperwork

#

All he had to do was sign it

#

:))

near glen
#

But at least there's a path now?

drifting arch
#

yea that's true ig

faint radish
#

One of OJs lawyers died and OJ weighed in on Twitter

loud flax
#

lol

glossy sandal
#

City council and mayor said they weren't notified of it happening until after it was cleared an hour later.. how

pure jetty
#

wasn't that square really hostile

glossy sandal
#

Yeah police weren't even near them when they cleared it

#

But staged nearby lol

foggy fern
#

Facebook decided politicians aren't immune from their rules anymore but Trump's ban is only for 2 years

brisk cradle
#

Relevant as the Trump administration warned against paying ransomware ransoms, and the Biden administration is now treating ransomware on par with terrorism

torn wadi
#

So just like Russia?

brisk cradle
#

Although blame mostly resides with (1) cryptocurrency people and (2) Microsoft for producing a hilariously insecure operating system

pure jetty
#

i mean i think most the blame is the people creating the ransomware

brisk cradle
#

Thing is @pure jetty, if you read the article, cryptocurrency is pretty much the major channel the ransomware gangs use for payment

#

How do you shut down the ransomware gangs? You need to cut off their way of getting payments.

#

This necessitates at the very least very strict regulation of cryptocurrency. That's a non-starter for crypto people as they hate regulations (the less so that more suckers can be sucked into the system).

pure jetty
#

im for regulating cryptocurrency like a kind of security

#

but like at the same time, most of the blame is still on the people actually doing the crime 😄

#

terrorism charge seems fair

brisk cradle
#

Do I for a minute believe Russian authorities are going to deal with ransomware gangs? They probably won't. The gangs only target non-CIS countries.

#

There's a reason why most ransomware will refuse to activate on a system with Russian, Ukrainian, or Byelorussian language packs - they would like to avoid criminal prosecution in their home countries.

blazing junco
brisk cradle
#

Well, and the cybercriminals mostly offer their services... on Russian cybercriminal forums.

blazing junco
#

It's hard to know

#

Could be some NK dudes kekwhyper

brisk cradle
#

True, but do you think for a moment the North Koreans would send their crack team of cybercriminals to jail? They're responsible for obtaining revenue for their nuclear program and for the Kim family's personal use.

#

If anything that's an argument for shutting down cryptocurrencies altogether.

blazing junco
#

Nah. Just the language check isn't too definitive to determine which country the attack is coming from

foggy fern
#

I thought ransomware was normally done via phishing

#

Can't stop stupid

#

Not Microsoft's fault 😛

#

You get one workstation and hopefully it has access to something important or the network security isn't setup right and it has access to basically everything

foggy fern
#

Toyota invented Just In Time inventory management which is the cause of all of this but amusingly they're one of the least harmed by it now (at least in Japan) because as much as possible they work with companies close to their plants

cedar lintel
#

It doesn't matter whose/whats'-at-fault, the problem is multi-vector weakness; the union of which is a set of human frailties that exploit the gaps between:

  • due-diligence vs laziness,
  • individual rights vs collective rights,
  • private property vs public property,
  • accountability vs liability, and
  • perception of potential risk vs cost of actual risk.
    So long as the problem is being dealt with in the realm of economics and game theory, solutions will remain in the realm of half-measures. Unless and until the pain becomes a collective pain, the human collective will refuse to be motivated to a change in behavior.
faint radish
#

Looks like Microsoft said it was human error, that searching “tank man” on bing images showed no results. So it probably was a config leak into us servers or whatever. Still, can’t say I’m a fan of it at all.

restive seal
#

"human error" of giving in to an authoritarian government more than intended...

faint radish
#

Mm hmm 😛

warm ibex
#

i'm on a server full of stalinists and tankies

#

one of them compared the tiananmen square protest to the fascist march on rome

pure jetty
dusky raft
#

wut? I mean, they believe the ideology made by a person who pretty much ordered the deaths of millions of people directly/indirectly and yet call that a fascist march?

#

I mean, china is bordering on fascism at this point.

faint radish
#

$100k… that’s nuts

pure jetty
tough cedar
#

what? how does that own her? lol

faint radish
#

Yeah, I know the context.

tough cedar
#

is there something im not getting?

faint radish
#

Her initial reply to Matt Walsh is the trigger for that I think

#

Saying “…instead of only caring for [my own grandmother] & letting others suffer, I’m calling attention to the systemic injustices…”

#

I mean it’s obv a stunt, everything is a stunt nowadays

pure jetty
#

yeah that was the context

#

also i want to know the chances of her mom actually taking that money

warm ibex
#

haven't they already tried the humiliating aoc strategy before

#

when they posted those videos of her dancing in college

glossy sandal
#

I wish someone would humiliate me by giving my mom thousands of dollars for free 🥺

#

Gosh that would be so terrible!!

warm ibex
#

I bet Walsh will put some of that money into his dead podcast

faint radish
#

CAs 32-year assault weapons ban was overturned today.

#

Ruling stayed 30 days for state to appeal

small root
#

Donald trump emailing me about getting banned from Facebook

image0.png
near glen
#

Man, HN, please never change

#

Read the thread about the G7 tax thing

#

First comment I see

#

"I do wonder if we wouldn't be better off eliminating corporation tax entirely."

#

That comment has 300 replies, lmao

mystic ermine
#

probs save a good chunk of money in the process

#

Imho, I'd be looking at reducing taxes but closing up all the holes in the system

#

Like, with how much companies scapegoat taxes, especially the big multinationals

#

Biggest issue however is how freely these companies can move, hence why it takes something like a few countries agreeing to solve the issue to get anywhere

eager hawk
#

he's gonna be campaigning two years earlier than we expected

near glen
near glen
#

Like, even this agreement now will prolly never be written down since the republication in the senate in the US would destroy it

#

Cause they have, uuuhm, let's say, conflicting interests

#

Heck, with current parliment, am not even sure there's a majority in our parliment

#

Thankfully we got a election that will nuke conservatives (well really, they are pesky neo liberals) out of office

#

We got polls where the greens (progressive, environment, social) have more votes than the conservatives, lol

#

They had 8.9% last time, now survey at 25%

#

While conservatives went down from 33% down to 24

faint radish
#

The house chooses its own speaker, doesn’t have to be a member

#

Kinda interesting, since the speaker is 3rd in line to the presidency

near glen
#

I really wonder what a progressive Germany will do to Europe

foggy fern
#

Going to be hard for Trump to run for anything while banned from Facebook and Twitter, that was how he did all his campaigning

faint radish
#

Looks like Manchin once again, reiterated that he’s not voting for the For The People act, or to abolish the filibuster

small root
#

i've gotten one every single day for past week

#

no idea how they keep getting my email or resubscribing me

near glen
#

assuming they honor unsubscribing

mystic ermine
#

they legally have to

#

But, no promises of how

#

inb4 some unpaid intern gets emails over unsubscribe requests and they have to remove them from the DB manually or some shit

near glen
#

Good luck proving that

mystic ermine
#

THE UNPAID INTERN WILL GET TO IT GIVES US TIME SHEESH

small root
#

yeah it might be illegal but email spam industry is not really going to ever follow those laws

brisk cradle
near glen
#

Meh, might be photoshopped

#

Still funny

daring locust
#

that doesnt look photoshopped

near glen
#

That's why I shared it, but some dude in comments thinks it might be

#

So added the disclaimer

foggy fern
eager hawk
#

I've heard it was diapers

wise patrol
glossy sandal
#

This man posted a photo to twitter with his gmail password taped on his monitor in view LMFAO kekwhyper

pure jetty
#

think he's on some security counsel committee too lmfao

glossy sandal
#

Only in Alabama smh

#

Love that it's almost been 24 hours and he still hasnt taken it down

pure jetty
#

FRA (+ FOIA) probably applies to him

#

so it won't do much

foggy fern
#

Those passwords are so easy to guess too

#

It's just combinations of his and his wife's names and birthdays

near glen
#

What's FRA?

#

Foia is freedom of information act, right? What does this mean in this context?

foggy fern
#

Federal Records Act, I think

near glen
#

When I google FRA I only get the Frankfurt Airport or some railroad stuff

#

Oh

#

You mean he can't delete cause it's public record?

#

No, you mean deleting doesn't change stuff cause its persisted as part of public record?

foggy fern
#

You could easily argue he uses this twitter account for official business so then what tweets should and shouldn't be covered by that gets real blurry

pure jetty
foggy fern
eager hawk
#

Biden defending trump damn

image0.png
shut vine
#

That's SOP for statements by officials made in response to questions made by the press even after they've left office.

#

The case in general is a absolute joke though. She's suing him for denying her allegations were true, thus will have to prove them or faces a counter-suit that is far more likely to succeed on face value.

faint radish
#

I think this article tries to say taxing unrealized gains is how it should work

pure jetty
#

taxing unrealized gains is mega cringe, at least in regards to stocks

faint radish
#

It defines the “true tax rate” as the taxes paid over the wealth increases in the same time period. That’s not how income taxes work 😅

#

I saw a good example, I’ve got a baseball card that’s super valuable, it goes up in value every year, and I gotta pay taxes just cause I own it? If I sell it, that’s income and that’s fair to be taxed

#

Yeah, so that article says the 25 richest people paid a “true tax rate” of 3.4% cause their wealth rose 401 billion from 2014 to 2018 and they paid 13.6 billion in taxes that same time period

pure jetty
#

thus being forced to sell control of your company

faint radish
#

Yeah, the taxes can be more than the value of the stock possibly too.

#

I hate the phrase “tax avoidance”. Like, who doesn’t try to pay a little tax as possible, so is it really needed to use a negative phrase like that to describe something?

pure jetty
#

i mean ideally we give more money to the irs to actually look into tax fraud more

#

but tax avoidance is a weird word

#

technically true, they hire people to pay as little taxes as possible which is expected

faint radish
#

Oh sure, finding more fraud is great. But yeah, people pay money to someone else to reduce the amount in taxes they end up paying. Clearly that’s worth hiring someone for lots of people

#

Lol

Musk responded to an initial query with a lone punctuation mark: “?” After we sent detailed questions to him, he did not reply.

fluid sonnet
#

I’ve never been a fan of the IRS personally. Twice my company got Audited because someone in the IRS legitimately did not understand how research funding worked, especially regarding new technologies. They swore we were stealing money or misusing it. 2 lawsuits, 8 years later, and a bunch of BS, we finally got them to leave us alone.

They’re a plague. Had to fly out to their office on 3 occasions to basically tell them the person leading the IRS audit was inept and clueless about how it all worked.

If we could avoid them completely and use another method I would be ALL for it. But, I’m probably super biased after that experience.

dusky raft
#

It would be nice if only the states handled taxes, not the federal government

foggy fern
warm ibex
#

libertarian party of New Hampshire going full ancap mode

loud flax
#

well, apparently children have will but not consent, so... they can't be held against their will but yet they can't will themselves to work a job? i don't get this

#

or perhaps public school should be more interactive than trying to learn to memorize long swaths of text to end up getting a passing grade on quizzes/tests

foggy fern
#

The replies to this tweet are brutal

#

(I mean the child labor one, mine is one of the replies)

blazing junco
#

those countries don't make up the entirety of balkan tho

#

lol

inland pebble
#

Over half

blazing junco
#

but you said balkan was soviet puppets

#

you didn't say most of them

inland pebble
#

And while Yugoslavia wasn't directly part of the warsaw pact, it maintained strong subjugation to the soviets until 91

#

Which makes pretty much the entirety of the balkans an ex soviet puppet state

blazing junco
inland pebble
#

Even today democratic values aren't too present there

#

Same with east Germany

safe flint
blazing junco
#

Gonna need a source for the claim that it was under subjugation by the soviets until 91'

#

when yugoslavia basically loathed the soviets

inland pebble
blazing junco
#

what about it

safe flint
#

Bruh.

blazing junco
#

communist != soviet

#

lol

daring locust
#

wikipedia isnt a source bro

inland pebble
#

Yea you shut up

#

Wikipedia great

torn wadi
#

I see someone didn't look up Tito. kekwhyper

blazing junco
inland pebble
#

Pretty much all socialist/communist countries had to maintain strong ecomomic bindings towards the soviet union

blazing junco
#

No, they didn't

#

Albania cut them off

inland pebble
#

Then I might be mistaken

torn wadi
#

Tito–Stalin split
Stalin considered Tito a traitor and openly offered condemnation towards him.

#

Understandable bro.

inland pebble
#

Why didn't the soviets just annex them

#

Greece was already part of NATO, wasn't it

inland pebble
#

Having so many people validify and create a single page makes it pretty much impossible for one party to change anything with it going unnoticed

#

Same reason linux is more secure and stable

torn wadi
#

Yeah. About that.

daring locust
#

wikipedia links sources bro

blazing junco
#

Especially in topics related to Balkans

daring locust
#

linking wikipedia as a source isnt acceptable

blazing junco
#

Like

#

It's an actual editing war on every. balkan. country's. page.

torn wadi
#

If a Serbian writes the Wikipedia article, they will blame us.
If we write the article we will blame them.

#

Very simple.

inland pebble
#

Idriz the reason you might think certain pages are awfully wrong might be because of your own bias; many people's biases clash on wikipedia creating some middle ground that can't really be disputed

safe flint
torn wadi
#

Non biased history doesn't exist.

#

Simple as that.

blazing junco
safe flint
blazing junco
#

Balkan wikipedia is notorious for being biased towards who edits it

#

So if a Serbian edits the Albanian page well

inland pebble
#

Yes and everyone can edit it, including people from the balkans, which kinda evens things out

safe flint
blazing junco
#

The ratio of true to false?

#

It's definitely not if that's what you mean.

inland pebble
#

Which source is kore reliable than wikipedia then?

daring locust
#

literal documents dating back to those times

inland pebble
#

Which also make up wikipedia?

daring locust
#

no

blazing junco
daring locust
#

wikipedia is adapted from those sources

blazing junco
#

You sent a wikipedia link

#

And said "there's your proof"

#

And your proof is nowhere to be found in there

#

Even if we assumed wikipedia is a valid source

#

You.. didn't link anything that backs you up

inland pebble
#

Your statement doesn't really proof me wrong, I already said my statement that Yugoslavia was a soviet puppet state is wrong, but we're talking about the accuracy of wikipedia rn

blazing junco
foggy fern
#

I'm still not convinced these countries actually exist

daring locust
#

found the flat earther

foggy fern
#

Nah, I just always think east of Germany is Russia, sometimes remembering there is something else in between but it isn't important 😛

#

Probably something to do with not getting textbooks that mentioned the collapse of the USSR until I was a teenager

mystic ermine
#

Okay, but

#

Who do you think you are kidding, Mr Hitler?

foggy fern
#

Dang, you got me

mystic ermine
warm ibex
dusky raft
#

usually it was the smaller states that the USSR had a more heavy hand in, such as the eastern bloc.

near glen
#

Sometimes I wonder what the intention was

#

Text of tweet is not important, just the screenshot of the poll

#

Did they really think everybody was clicking the last option? Or at least the first?

mystic ermine
#

I mean, kinda dumb, at least here in the UK, most of our towns have OTT one way restrictions and all that crap so driving around is often either going to the nearest parking lot and walking or just walking into town or jumping on the bus there

near glen
#

As it should be

#

Cars don't make much sense in cities

#

And nobody got enough space for that

dusky raft
#

@near glen and looking at the US, cars are used for just driving up the block to work

near glen
#

You guys gonna learn too sometime

#

I have to think about when I last used my car, think last friday

#

To visit a friend outside my city

#

Normally I use it every Sunday to go to my parents but since weather is so great rn I just used my bike instead

pure jetty
#

if you live and work in the city cars don't make sense in the US

#

but that's only a fraction of people

mild basin
#

I think Putin is a president of world

urban vector
#

I think the sky is yellow

near glen
#

Oh, is it opposite day today?

urban vector
#

I assumed so

brisk cradle
#

and mind you, $15 per hour is a compromise on the progressives' behalf - if the minimum wage had kept up with inflation/CPI, it'd be something like $22 per hour by now

#

And if you look at it from the productivity perspective? Over $40 per hour.

pure jetty
#

lol

#

it's very depended on location

#

it's horrible in some, great in others

#

which is why a state (idealy, town level but that would never happen) minimum wage is better econ policy

brisk cradle
#

But Republicans blamed unemployment subsidies for a tight labor market, but if raising wages gets you a deluge of applicants, clearly you're not offering them enough money.

#

These people would like to get off unemployment, if they got a better wage.

hybrid ice
#

^

#

thats what I fear might happen if i decide to take a job and get off unemployment, i would get paid far less

pure jetty
#

which is fair but to say the solution is raising the federal minimum wage so high is not the case

faint radish
#

dont you kinda then have the government competing against itself for wages? gov sets unemployment, and gov sets high min wage

pure jetty
#

yeah kinda but still if you cannot live off of (a full time) minimum wage job that can be a problem

brisk cradle
#

Disclaimer: Am employed. For now at least.

faint radish
#

are you supposed to be able to live off of unemployment? or off of the minimum wage?

pure jetty
#

latter in an ideal world

#

unemployment should be a buffer between jobs

#

now in an ideal world

#

we have a public option for healthcare

#

to also help people without jobs too

#

and that also happens to be a more politically viable solution than something like a $15 or $22 min wage

shut vine
#

I mean it's completely logical to conclude that if you're being paid for not working, companies will have to beat that in order to get you to be paid for working.

dusky raft
#

There needs to be a lot of changes in the way public spending operates, and to be honest, I think it should be more on a local level than at federal

#

Plus if these policies did work in the first place, why have states where they raised the minimum wage still suffer from income problems?

#

or why dont certain states operate public healthcare for all?

foggy fern
#

Even if a vaccine could cause this keys (usually) aren't magnetic

tough cedar
#

Lol that was a funny video

warm urchin
#

Politicssoviet3D TTrump

red tree
keen swift
#

Do you think that its right for people to charge money for paper forks?, because its hours of work that the paper community did for free, but they are also making there own improvements apon the code and spending hours as well

foggy fern
#

gets out the DMCA template

#

What forks are we talking about here?

near glen
#

forks are legal, as long as they follow the GPL

#

so they gotta give all buyers access to the code

#

and you as a buyer can redistribute said code then cause its GPL again

foggy fern
brisk cradle
urban vector
#

damn the iz*one breakup must've really hit him hard 😥

torpid gazelle
mellow sonnet
#

TRUMP

#

yeahhh

tight pike
pure jetty
#

pls no shitposts

sand shale
#

not exactly politics, but:

near glen
#

without clicking, thats the praise for folding@home right?

mystic ermine
#

yea

fluid sonnet
#

Bit late to the party but the best decision I ever made for my business was to pay the employees way more than the National average for the exact same job.

Employees were way happier, worked harder, showed up earlier/stayed later. All without being asked to do so. (Of course they got paid for the extra time, don’t worry)

Wish more companies realized this, as well as politicians, but we know they’ll just keep getting lobbied for decisions.

dusky raft
#

@fluid sonnet what field?

near glen
#

out of interest, what kinda business?

fluid sonnet
#

Aerospace

dusky raft
#

yeah, it would really depend on the field

near glen
#

yeah see, in stuff where you want experts, paying good is pretty much a requirement

dusky raft
#

pretty much retail is cutthroat as it is, and smaller companies continue to be pushed out due to higher wage increases

near glen
#

not sure the same is true for min payment jobs

fluid sonnet
#

Aerospace, but also small contractor. We did things like LineX (truck bed liners), and automotive as well. But that was rare.

dusky raft
#

a blanket minimum wage isnt the best thing, and besides, being in a state without its own minimum wage (following federal), companies still offer way above that

#

I havent seen places offering below $10/hr besides online positions.

#

I think I saw some online postings not too long ago that were fully remote. Company was in some blue state which a higher minimum wage but is hiring outside the state at a lower rate

fluid sonnet
#

That is something I noticed as well. Seattle/ LA are investing heavily in remote jobs. They pay the rate of their state, but the people don’t necessarily have to live there.

#

I think a massive shift in wages is occurring especially with the realization of remote work.

urban vector
#

it would be nice if the literature on raising the minimum wage actually agreed with the idea that it would push out businesses/etc but sadly there's not much to actually evidence that it is the case

fluid sonnet
#

Buildings no longer really need to be used, so massive high rises can be loaned out or rented out to businesses who actually need the space.

#

Anyways, figured I’d give my .02 from experience. I know it’s situational, not everyone can do it the same way.

pure jetty
#

the CBO did a huge study on this

#

fuck let me get the link

#

there

mystic ermine
#

Some states have like stupid taxes which you need to pay if you're emplying people there

#

Pretty sure seattle was one of them, and they where threatening to extend it to remote work, iirc

#

The best part of the coof is that those companies which have for years been saying that they can't accomidate remote working where so fucking fast to spin it up when it was needed

#

Now, I get some roles are not all that suited for it, and so, some credits there, but, many companies spun up in these stupidly OTT priced places for various reasons, but, now that people can work from whereever and live with a MUCH lower cost of living with the same wage, many states are tryna hit back against it, but, I think many of them are kinda doomed

urban vector
#

Ah yeah, I've seen that study before. I actually really like it because even with its most dramatic estimate it still reduces the amount of people on the poverty line, increases the income for millions of households and predicts a real impact on those below the poverty line, with a slight cost to those above it. But even with these estimates the study still admits that there is "considerably uncertainty" on the impact that it would have on employment as well as even admitting themselves that their results are uncertain. It's a good stab at it, but the study is just slightly too based on estimates when there are plenty of case studies out there that many, many other economists have actually studied and investigated, finding that raising the minimum wage is generally speaking a good idea with a good overall impact.

pure jetty
#

poverty isn't a good metric for minimum wage

#

you can aid that with more social services from the government (healthcare, etc)

urban vector
#

yeah sure, that too is a great idea

#

can't argue against that

pure jetty
#

also with poverty, I could argue that while the net change when increasing federal min wage is positive (as in more exit poverty), there is also an increase in people entering it

#

which idk how I feel about

urban vector
#

was that mentioned in that study?

pure jetty
#

yeah

#

i think with conditions for 2027 $15 min wage there was a 500k entering poverty each year

#

which is why I tend to lean more towards providing social services since they can literally only move people out of poverty (generally speaking)

urban vector
#

sure, as opposed to 1.25m leaving poverty - besides, that study is just estimates so i definitely prefer hard figures/observation/etc anyway

#

but yeah, i can't disagree that social care is a better way to drag people out of poverty

mystic ermine
#

horror is that poverty metrics are fucking useless and figures for services and such are stupid

dusky raft
#

nevermind there are people who just dont help themselves

mystic ermine
#

you can be easily classified as not being in poverty while struggling to afford bread

ashen peak
#

LMFAO

#

POLITICS

#

IN A MINECRAFT PLUGINS SERVER

tepid jasper
near glen
#

either contribute to the discussion or fuck off

keen swift
tight pike