#politics

1 messages · Page 61 of 1

near glen
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Well, yes, the court basically only says something if it's obvious

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We aren't the first ones to do that btw, in 2019 a similar ruling was issued in the netherlands

faint radish
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“Obvious” is also a political statement. And if it’s obvious, then the legislature should act based on it being clear to all constituents that it should change

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And if it’s not “obvious” enough that too many people disagree… then that’s how a representative democracy works.

near glen
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Well, clearly I am bad at explaining this, but this is entirely based on facts, there is nothing political about this. They court also doesn't say to do, but they said this doesn't properly fullfil the duties of the gov, and they have to fix it

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They don't say how to fix it, just what's wrong

faint radish
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How is it based on facts about the future?

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They don’t know 100% that whatever is in place isn’t enough.

near glen
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There is enough data and studies about the climate catastrophe, no?

faint radish
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No, not that. Specifically this law you are talking about

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You said the court said it didn’t do enough to address it for the future

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Experts can weigh in and give their opinions and convince the public.

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A non-representative body shouldn’t be making these types of decisions because it is a political one.

near glen
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It's not a decision

faint radish
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The law has to be amended to do more to combat climate change right?

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That’s what the court said?

near glen
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More or less, yes

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Specifically the law needs to do more to protect the freedoms of these young individuals, with are threatened by the climate catastrophe

faint radish
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That’s the decision I’m talking about. It should come from the people, they tell their reps the law isn’t doing enough.

near glen
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Well, this is an extreme case

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Rulings like this don't happen often

faint radish
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“Extreme circumstances” are always justifications in the eyes of the government

shy gulch
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I assume this place is for US politics

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Hmmm let's see what is going on in your country

faint radish
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Nah, doesn’t have to be

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Can be anywhere

shy gulch
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oh okay

near glen
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Well, this court is just a tool to hold the gov accountable

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So that they properly fulfill their duties and don't overstep their power

faint radish
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The people should hold the government accountable

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Not some other part of the government

near glen
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Any citizens can rise a complaint there

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A court isn't part of the government?

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Legislative and judicative are strictly seperated

faint radish
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Courts certainly are part of the government

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If courts aren’t part of government, they have 0 meaning. Do their rulings matter? Are they enforceable? If they are, it’s part of government

near glen
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Well, depends on your definition of government

faint radish
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And separated is good. But it’s still part of the government. And governments should hold themselves in check where they can, but mainly so one part doesn’t get too powerful. In the end, it’s always the people who hold the gov accountable.

near glen
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Yes, courts are one of the 3 branches

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But when I say gov, I often refer to the legislative, the politicans

faint radish
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To govern: conduct the policy, actions, and affairs of (a state, organization, or people).

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If the courts have a role in that, it’s the government

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But that doesn’t matter, it’s still people in positions of power.

A court saying a legislature over stepped its bounds is good. A court saying a legislature needs to do something is giving the court too much power

near glen
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But this ruling basically means that climate protection is a fundemantal right in germany

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The court says that the legislature didn't fulfill it's duty

faint radish
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That doesn’t matter. The law of topic is irrelevant.

It’s all about a court forcing a legislature to do something, vs not do something.

near glen
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It's like, who do you complain to if your gov doesn't properly feed you?

faint radish
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Ones a positive right, the other a negative

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Your representative in the legislature. Where policy is made/passed.

near glen
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Who do you complain to if your gov doesn't fulfil it's duty to protect you?

faint radish
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You get rid of the people currently in government

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Elections

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Or recalls, impeachment, whatever flavor exists in Germany

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The court, in an ideal world, should never be influenced by polls, or the mood of the public.

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And yes, thinking your gov isn’t doing enough IS another political opinion

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Thinking that it’s not doing it’s duty, whatever that may be, is a political opinion, and has no business in a court

near glen
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Unless you can scienfically prove it

faint radish
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Now you have the government defining science, in a sense.

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If a government gets into the business of proving science, that can lead to all sorts of problems.

near glen
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Well, clearly germany has a whole different definition of all do that, which is what makes our country so great

faint radish
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Makes it scary more like it. Def don’t want a government in the science proving business

near glen
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The federal constitutional court is an important part of our system and it has proven to be very valuable in the past

faint radish
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I said nothing against the system, other than this one case, which it looks like the court is doing what the legislature should do. It’s a power grab. Probably not intentionally, but a court should not be able to say to a legislature, you have to do “more”. Only that you can’t do “that”.

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It’s not up to the court what the laws should be, only what they should not be

near glen
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It's not a power grab cause that court is designed to do that

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That's how our constitution works

faint radish
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Well there’s the problem. A court has no business ordering a legislature to do more. Only to do less.

near glen
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Under your system

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Ours is designed differently

faint radish
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I’m guessing another job of your gov is to keep you safe right?

near glen
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Yes

faint radish
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Well, what if this court said to the legislature, you have to put 20km/hr speed limits everywhere to reduce auto accidents. We don’t think the legislature is doing their duty to protect lives.

near glen
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That's funny because speed limits have been discussed heavily in germany ^^

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But the court can't order to create new legislation

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Only fix current

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In both directions

faint radish
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Ok. Say there were already speed limits then. And the court said they had to be lower to prevent more loss of life

near glen
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The court only acts if somebody raises an complain

faint radish
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Ok. So someone complains caus their 3 children and wife died

near glen
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And some other court first Rules if the federal constitutional court has any jurisdiction and stuff, it's really complicated

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And I don't understand enough of it to explain it

faint radish
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Well whatever. I think new policy should originate from the people, not from a court.

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??

near glen
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Well, it will

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Cause the government will implement it

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Gov as in legislative

foggy fern
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Having a court issue a ruling saying laws need to be passed seems weird

near glen
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Laws need to be adjusted

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Because in it's current form it's not compatible with our constitution

pure jetty
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typically the thing you do it just throw out the law then

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idk how your judges are elected

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but giving them the power to alter the law as they see fit seems pretty monkaS

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at least in the US we try to limit that as much as possible

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the only known place I can think of even happening in the US is the courts all agreeing to severely limit our anti trust laws because our anti trust law was so poorly written

near glen
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They don't alter the law

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They highlight issues and request those issues to be addressed

pure jetty
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so what does that entail

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is that a forceful request

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is that a suggestion

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does that repeal the law until that and only that concern is addressed

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or does it repeal the law and your legislature changes it how they see fit?

near glen
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They set a say till when the points need to be addressed

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No clue what would happen if legislators don't

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The law in this case is still in affect

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I think that depends on the case

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Like there was a case recently where gov overstepped on corona stuff so court nullified that law

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Or a part of it anyways

pure jetty
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hm

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weird way of doing that

near glen
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Again, no expert, just trying to explain from my limited knowledge

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If you really care I bet they have an english wikipedia or smth

pure jetty
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the eu is good they said

torn wadi
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So just an addition to what we already had.

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Or 🇵🇱.

near glen
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Yeah, we kicked the Brits out, now it's time to get rid of other idiots too

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Dictators like orban has no buisness being in the EU

shut vine
mystic ermine
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they wanted us to stay or to make it look like a fuck off gigantic mistake to do so

shut vine
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I also think calling an entire nation of people idiots because they felt like leaving the EU is fairly incendiary.

mystic ermine
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many countries expressed interest in yeeting their membership if us leaving worked well

shut vine
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Spain and Italy if I remember right.

mystic ermine
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france was talking about it too iirc

shut vine
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Ah yea.

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If you add all four of those up it's close to 50% of the EU's GDP gone.

foggy fern
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I don't know about the other two but France was talking about it because they want the EU to be closer, EU army and such

near glen
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Yeah france wants a powerful EU

shut vine
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Anti-globalization is also a motivating factor in France

near glen
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Every country has multiple views, but that's not what their gov is representing

near glen
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"The European Commission has informed Apple of its preliminary view that it distorted competition in the music streaming market as it abused its dominant position for the distribution of music streaming apps through its App Store. The Commission takes issue with the mandatory use of Apple's own in-app purchase mechanism imposed on music streaming app developers to distribute their apps via Apple's App Store. The Commission is also concerned that Apple applies certain restrictions on app developers preventing them from informing iPhone and iPad users of alternative, cheaper purchasing possibilities. "

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  • Tim epic likes that *
pure jetty
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if it were any fucking organization to rule in fucking tim epics favor it would be the fucking eu

near glen
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It's in response to a complaint by spotify

pure jetty
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yeah i figured

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spotify has been ass mad for a while

near glen
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Unsurprisingly

pure jetty
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idk a lot about EU antitrust so idk if this is even valid but if EU antitrust does allow them to claim in app purchases and app stores are relevant markets (one that should be regulated) then its a braindead law

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they're literally killing walled gardens because too many people use the product

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so fucking stupid

near glen
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They have to compete with apple, while they have to pay apple a cut but apple doesn't need to, so apples margins are much higher for apple music

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How is killing a walled garden bad?

pure jetty
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because a walled garden shouldn't be a banned business model

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listen i fucking hate them too

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but some people don't

near glen
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This is also just a statement of objections, that's not a ruling

pure jetty
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and they do provide decent end user experiences most of the time

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yeah ik

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but its an official statement by their commission on the subject

near glen
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I don't think forcing powerful companies to open up part of their walled garden is a bad thing

pure jetty
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meaning they probably will follow with a suit?

near glen
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If apple doesn't react I guess? Idk about that procedure

pure jetty
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it is 100% a bad thing, you're telling apple they cannot control their own platform

near glen
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Oh it says at the bottom

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It's part of the procedure

pure jetty
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what is part of procedure

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making this statement?

near glen
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Basically it's the start of an antitrust investigation

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Yes

pure jetty
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yeah i figured

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assume this goes thru, the EU is forcing a private company to change the rules on their own platform

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rules that app developers agree too

near glen
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Point is that app devs have to agree

pure jetty
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they are not forced

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nobody is forcing them to put their app on the store

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android is a bigger market too

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so they don't even have that leverage

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idk the stats about EU-only but still

near glen
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Apple is a big enough market, you can't ignore it as a buisness

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That's the whole point

pure jetty
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you legally can 100%

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you are not entitled to the app store

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apple could the very next day just remove the app store

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apple can charge whatever they want to operate their store

near glen
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Yes, but as long it exists, it's a market and it should be regulated

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The issue isnt that they charge, the issue is that their are creating an environment where 3rd parties are disadvantaged

pure jetty
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in the US for antitrust we have what's called relevant market, and our anti-trust laws can only regulate said relevant markets.

near glen
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Seems like EU regulation is different then, no clue about the details

pure jetty
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Now a relevant market can only be so broad because if you zoom down everything can be perceived as a monopoly

near glen
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This is the law the commission quotes

pure jetty
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for example you could get uhhh paypal to say spotify has a monopoly on spotify payment processing

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and that they must be allowed to be a payment processor on spotify!

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because there is just so many users using spotify!

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and they want to make money

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spotify really shouldn't maintain that monopoly on payment processing

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paypal can't ignore spotify's business

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now apply that to apple

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it's kinda the same thing

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its too specific a market

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of course apple is going to have a monopoly on payment processors on the app store

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and they're going to have a monopoly on appstores for ios

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but they're not "relevant markets" to regulate

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at least in the US

near glen
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That's a strange comparison, since the app store is a platform

pure jetty
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idk how braindead EU law is

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the app store is a closed platform

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not a free one

near glen
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For now

pure jetty
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forever

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just like how spotify gives a platform to payment processors

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😉

near glen
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Well, we will see how this develops

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Considering they took almost a year to come to this point, I think they have considered what they said

pure jetty
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does the EU have to go in front of a judge for that

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ik in the US, companies get to defend themselves

near glen
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I would guess the commission would sue infront of the european court of justice?

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Sue apple that is

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So yes they would defend themselves

pure jetty
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alr thats good ig

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however i somehow doubt the fairness of an EU court pepela

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with that pepega of statement

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makes me think their antitrust law is that pepega

near glen
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"This is the initial, formal stage of antitrust proceedings against Apple, and the company will have the chance to respond to the Commission’s list of objections within the next 12 weeks. "

pure jetty
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does respond = court tho

near glen
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Nah I think it's informal

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They have a chance to provide perspective, and commission then decides if they want to persue this?

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Reading the verge article rn that has some context and explanation

pure jetty
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jesus

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VP of the EU commission for competition

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fucking christ if that kind of shit happened in the US

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with the look of this it seems like epic may file in EU when they lose in US

near glen
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No need to

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Msft already did

pure jetty
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ig it makes sense to abuse the EU's broken law if they can

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man i really want apple to just say fuck off to the EU

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and see what happens

near glen
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This announcement is only about the music market, but commission also looking into gaming, for project xcloud ban

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Since msft complained to the commission

pure jetty
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which is even worse

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because now you're getting the EU to say apple is forced to let ANYONE on the store

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jesus christ

near glen
pure jetty
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is it tho

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i thought EU was super android?

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now that UK is out

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maybe france uses iphones a lot

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idk what that one blue country is

near glen
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Swiss

pure jetty
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ah

near glen
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Banks

pure jetty
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they're EEA anyway

near glen
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Swiss is?

pure jetty
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i think so

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no?

near glen
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They aren't part of schengen, that I know for sure

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Swiss is strange

pure jetty
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looks like Swiss is one step below EEA

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not part of EFTA

near glen
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Switzerland is not an EU or EEA member but is part of the single market.

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Well, if you part of eea, you might as well just join the EU, is kinda the same, but you don't get to vote

plush crypt
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yea switzerland is not part of EU so they're absolute aids to work with pepela

torn wadi
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At least they can hold our gold. kekwhyper

near glen
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Says the norwegian

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But norway and switzerland aren't the same level, right?

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Norway is eea, right?

plush crypt
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norway is EEA

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norway also takes in EVERY god damn EU law

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but insists on not having voting rights

near glen
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Doesn't the eea forces that?

plush crypt
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it's like EU but 1700s and incredible taxes

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no

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EEA gives every member the right to veto a law, and EU and EEA also have different laws

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some laws are EU level, some are EEA level

near glen
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Ah I see

plush crypt
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and Norway clearly doesn't realise that as they take in all laws

near glen
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I always saw eea like all economical eu laws minus voting rights

plush crypt
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and also no free market, no free flow of people, no free flow of money...

pure jetty
plush crypt
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costs a fuck tonne to import into Norway from Germany

pure jetty
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aside from like some trade related shit

plush crypt
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yeah, pretty much; if the law is implemented in the EEA, it's there for all EEA members who didn't veto it

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though I don't believe anyone has ever vetoed an EEA law?

near glen
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It's definitely a weird distinction

pure jetty
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isn't is because of fishing since most EEA countries have big fishing markets?

plush crypt
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most EEA countries aren't even close to the sea

foggy fern
foggy fern
faint radish
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Also, 17 is of age in some states. It’s 18 in Florida.

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I don’t see in the article if it points to where this took place

foggy fern
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Wouldn't matter if he was flying her to DC or out campaigning with him

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Which is what the original NYT story says was being investigated

faint radish
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This doesn’t have anything to do with that tho. That was never about paying for sex, it was about transporting someone between states for the purposes of sex.

foggy fern
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Sure, that's federal sex trafficking laws

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This would get him in trouble in Florida too for prostitution, not sure if her being 17 would matter for that or not

faint radish
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Prostitution man… idk what I think about that.

If two consenting adults agree on an exchange of money for sex, why should that be illegal

foggy fern
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It's a mix of Puritanical bullshit and an attempt to protect women from exploitation although that part definitely backfires

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Pushing it underground makes it easier for them to be exploited

faint radish
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I do love how it’s so different in different states tho. Got Nevada with literal brothels

foggy fern
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Yeah but not in any of the places people actually live iirc

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They have to be out in the middle of nowhere

faint radish
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Oh do they? I didn’t know that was a requirement

foggy fern
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It's not a requirement from the state but some counties and/or cities ban them

faint radish
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But… if we are on the topic of zoning, I certainly do not want prostitution going on outside an elementary school.

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So I’m probably pro-some zoning restrictions

foggy fern
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hehe, little johnny isn't getting bullied for his lunch money, he just doesn't want to tell you what he bought

mystic ermine
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bahahaaaa

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brings a whole new meaning to sneaking out of the yard for lunch

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I mean, outside of "won't somebody please think of the children" (i.e. follow the laws, no sketchy behavior by the school, etc), I really don't see any issue with it; For some it's a safety net of an occupation, for some, it's a fun job, as

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a society we need better safety nets to protect people from that, but, generally, it peoples own body, it's dumb that we have regulations against it which do nothing other than to harm those in need

faint radish
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On a somewhat similar note, why is gambling also illegal? Idc what people do with their money, as long as I don’t end up paying for them if they lose all of it.

foggy fern
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You're going to though

faint radish
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I have the same argument about drugs. They can probably all be legal, if not 1 cent of the taxes I pay goes directly to anyone who uses heroin regularly.

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“Stupid should hurt”

mystic ermine
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Issue is gambling additions are fucking crazy, and idk a real sane way to fix it bar pita regulations that licensed orgs should have a duty to protect their clients, but, idk any way they could do that, "you can only bet X% of your income", would just be split across companies or done underground

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for stuff like women of the night, I think it's dumb, for gambling, I can kinda see there being some concerns about it, but, errr...

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I mean, I eeer in the way of government fucking off, generally, but, it's government who we expect to provide these safety nets and to protect the vulnerable, so, yea... fuuun...

sick radish
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it's easier to just not care at all

mystic ermine
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Well, yea, it's easier to let children starve too

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looks at his own government

sick radish
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idk. i'm not a politician. we don't live in a lottocracy. so i'm not gonna rack my brain over issues like these as i can't do anything about it.

pure jetty
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like cat said

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that being said lotteries should be illegal too

faint radish
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I think they are illegal some places, unless operated by the state

weary lake
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Don't know if it's illegal to have your own here, but here all lotteries are by the state.

faint radish
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I think I remember reading you can’t have your own. Which is why on all those sweepstakes things, there is always a way to enter without paying for a coke, or smth.

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Can’t require money to enter a chance event I think it what it boils down to.

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Once every 2 weeks at the longest for me

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80% wash pants after wearing them once? That’s seems crazy high. Especially for jeans or smth

pure jetty
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i mean shouldn't be operated by the states

shut vine
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So that's just categorically wrong.

near glen
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They are actively working against that tho?

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Well, not that I would be an expert in french politics

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I only notice what they do on eu stage

shut vine
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I don't particularly think what a government says is often what they actually want, but they are representing the view of the French people like that in recent years, pretty sure in 2018ish Macron made a statement in an interview about it. That being said I'm even less in touch with French politics, it may have changed.

foggy fern
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This is because of https://world.hey.com/jason/changes-at-basecamp-7f32afc5

Changes at Basecamp

At Basecamp, we treat our company as a product. It's not a rigid thing that exists, it's a flexible, malleable idea that evolves. We aren't stuck with what we have, we can create what we want. Just as we improve products through iteration, we iterate on our company too. Recently, we've made some internal company changes, which, taken i...

pure jetty
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lmfao what is that post

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the only one I kinda get is #1

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rest is literally basically begging people to quit

foggy fern
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1/3 would be about 20 people, btw

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The rest feels like something taking their ball and going home

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Like "fine, no more politics means no more anything that even hints at being political"

near glen
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The basecamp thing is so ridiculous

foggy fern
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The "buyout" is 3 months pay for people there 0-3 years and 6 months pay for 3+ years

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If 1/3 of my company (or even just my team) walked I'd be looking for a job starting that same day and probably quitting soon whether I'd found another job yet or not (or in this case definitely quitting and taking that severance pay)

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I'd had experience with that before, when you lose 10% of your team that just means everyone gets to work 10% harder, they don't drop work or reschedule things

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So they're banning "politics" because people were complaining that a list of "funny" names seemed kind of racist

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Interviews with a half-dozen Basecamp employees over the past day paint a portrait of a company where workers sought to advance Basecamp’s commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion by having sensitive discussions about the company’s own failures. After months of fraught conversations, Fried and his co-founder, David Heinemeier Hansson moved to shut those conversations down.

near glen
foggy fern
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The committee they're talking about getting rid of is the one for examining how to improve diversity in the company through hiring practices, what vendors they work with, etc

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20 people volunteered to work on it, I wonder if those are the same 20 who left

near glen
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Heh

pure jetty
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Over 50% were not republicans

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Kinda makes sense

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Will be interesting to see what republicans do

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I know stalling the coronavirus stuff didn't poll well with republicans

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Hopefully his opponent is moderate enough

mystic ermine
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Thank god the 2020 election was the most secure in history

pure jetty
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Wat

mystic ermine
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hm?

pure jetty
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why were you talking about the election

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it was fine

mystic ermine
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I was mocking the commentary in that post

pure jetty
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ah

foggy fern
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Wasn't that report just about hacking and such?

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I know that's not how people used it

foggy fern
foggy fern
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This time, we won't look the other way on Coca-Cola's $12 billion in back taxes owed. This time, when Major League Baseball lobbies to preserve its multibillion-dollar antitrust exception, we'll say no thank you. This time, when Boeing asks for billions in corporate welfare, we'll simply let the Export-Import Bank expire.

  • Ted Cruz
faint radish
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“We need to model our transportation system off of Europe’s”

tough cedar
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who has said that? tho i agree, it'd be nice to take a train to anywhere in texas

broken raven
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you guys have systemized transport systems?

plush crypt
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lol yea

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it costed me 15€ to get to 4 cities by train on Friday

icy fiber
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"costed" 😠 but anyway, politics huh? Right to repair anyone? 😁

near glen
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Uff

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Poor armenia

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As if genocide wasn't enough for azerbaijan

near glen
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Another big uff

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In india they have to burn bodies on the street cause the crematoriums are hopelessly overfilled

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Insane pictures

mystic ermine
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right to repair is gonna be a fun one, many places seem to be adopting some form of rules for it, Rossman was showing some place a while back in the US where the leaders somewhere basically laughed them out, then they all got voted out next election and some stuff was passed

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But, it's crazy, it shows how detached these people are from us and from the people they represent, especially the rural people who run the farms who provide the food, who are hammered with companies like john deere who think that repairing your own tractor should literally be a sin

faint radish
#

What the actual F… you can be locked up in the UK for quoting the Bible in public?

mystic ermine
#

Never heard that one but wouldn't surprise me

faint radish
#

Frankly, the whole “it was from the Bible part” is kinda just added on top of the, “you can be arrested for offending someone part”.

#

71 year old guy, doing his thing, idc, I wouldn’t pay him any attention, but the government stepping in and taking him away because he “caused distress”? Get outta here. Yikes.

mystic ermine
#

I mean, it's caveated, as we have no idea what he's said, but, generally, eeerrrr

#

I mean, I wish the bible thumpers would fuck off, very few town centres you can go to without there being a reasonable chance you'll run into one over the week

faint radish
#

It shouldn’t be caveated. It doesn’t matter what he was saying really.

#

Now, this obv doesn’t apply in the UK, but I think it’s pretty good.

image0.jpg
#

“…not on the conscience of judges and juries but on the competition of other ideas.”

pure jetty
#

i'd be interested if i saw actual charges

#

due to the nature of UK speech law this isn't that surprising

faint radish
#

I think he was released, I couldn’t find a news article about it.

pure jetty
#

yeah figures

loud flax
#

something like this would offend me greatly if he was charged

faint radish
#

I think it’s just as big a deal tho, even if he was released with no consequences

loud flax
#

i don't believe in any stronger message than that given by Christianity, so to see someone arrested for this, that's just plain insane

#

i mean it happens around the world anyways

#

so something like this isn't much of a surprise

mystic ermine
#

Well, yea, that's the issue here is that the laws are trash and as is the police force these days

#

It's funny because the UKs stance on policing is that it's "policing by consent", and yet, we have no say at all in anything

faint radish
#

What is policing by consent even supposed to mean?

#

“I don’t consent to being arrested, so you can’t arrest me”?

mystic ermine
#

it's the nature that the public approves of the police force and their powers, pretty much

near glen
#

Part of the bible is definitely hate speech 😂

#

There is some really fucked up shit in there

#

Same with any religious scripts tho

mystic ermine
#

was gonna say, it's the same for most religions

#

I mean,it's complex, especially in these hypersensitive days

#

We had like a huuuuge child pros ring which the media failed to report and the police refused to do anything about because of the fear of being called racist

#

But, I don't think that many of the issues with the religious texts is a religious issue as much as a culture issue

#

The religious texts just prop up what can only, imho, be desribed as deep found cultural issues

loud flax
#

i guess i have a problem with anyone saying hate speech is bad yet has a subjective view of morality, i really do

#

no foundation there

mystic ermine
#

Issue is these days is that many issues are so nuanced and people go into discussions thinking that they're right and you're wrong and there is 0 interest in you potentially changing your own view point or having any real proper discussion about it

loud flax
#

yeah exactly

#

being offended is bad and the person doing the offending is satan and i don't want them to exist in my life

mystic ermine
#

I do wonder about stuff like religion as we go through the generations

#

I know many people born into like muslim families who don't really practice the religion outside of keeping their parents happy

#

christinity in the UK is practically all but dead in my generation so it seems

#

You'll have people who'll say that they're christians when quizzed but they don't really follow any of the teaches, go to church, etc

#

I think I knew like, one person who did

loud flax
#

i've heard it labeled as extrinsic and intrinsic christianity

#

i think it's like intrinsic is about your relationship with God, it is something very genuine for you, while extrinsic is about doing it because others are, or something like that

mystic ermine
#

i guess these days people are just so tied up into the dogma of labels they gotta find one

#

saying you're a christian is also generally deemed more socially acceptable than being an atheist so it seems

loud flax
restive seal
#

On the extreme end I don't mind someone chasing women yelling bible verses about subservience to men getting consequences for their actions. Not arrest, but some consequences :P

mystic ermine
#

At least to me, that would fall under the line of harassment, imho

#

"freedom of religion" is weird as shit

#

especially as most religions are from a time where people would shit themselves if they saw modern society

#

WOMEN?! WORKING?!

restive seal
#

Bible is full of stuff that just isn't cool anymore.

mystic ermine
#

That's the thing that pisses me off with bible thumpers as we call them

#

Or, people who follow religious texts in general

#

Like, in order to justify that these religions are peaceful, you need to erase a lot of the lessons from the books or their history

#

afaik, all religious books of relevance in the UK pretty much have some form of "it's okay to kill the non-believers" type crap

restive seal
#

I like the one about summoning bears to maul dozens of children for mocking you.

weary lake
#

Imo freedom of religion doesn't need to be a law that exists; if you believe in some god or something, fine, but that's just your opinion and can fall under freedom of opinion or whatever law covers that.

mystic ermine
#

problem with all of this is that it gets caveated into social norms

#

We can agree that murder is wrong, but, idk many guys who'd have something against a groomer disappearing, yet we can agree that killing people over who you believe in the sky is wrong, for the most part

#

freedom of religion gives you the right to practice whatever religion you want so long as it doesn't break any other laws

restive seal
#

If you need a guidebook to tell you murder is wrong I have serious concerns. :D

mystic ermine
#

but, then that gets caveated, e.g. weed was made illegal in part to push out some religions, iirc

weary lake
#

Yeah, these religious texts are full of... questionable stuff. Some people are like "I only believe in x religion because of the morals", but, have you seen what these religious texts say? If that's your standpoint, fine with me, but it probably isn't.

pure jetty
#

freedom of religion is fine since it doesn't absolve you from breaking laws

mystic ermine
#

And, well, we know murder is wrong, but, back when many of these books where written, murder was wrong unless it wasn't

pure jetty
#

that being said would the world be a better place without it

#

maybe pepelaugh

weary lake
#

If we started the world without religion entirely, I for sure think we would have been better off.

restive seal
weary lake
#

If you try to rip it out now, it's probably not going to go well, though.

pure jetty
#

ah yeah that kind of stuff is weird

mystic ermine
#

I believe it would be better as then people would have to find where they stand on issues vs believing some book of what is right and wrong determined by some peeps thousands of years ago

pure jetty
#

the supreme court seems to contradict itself all the time

mystic ermine
#

I mean, it's one of the side-effects of things without a real absolution

weary lake
#

I don't mind people having a handle on their morality, but there are a lot of people that only follow "the good stuff" from x religion. At that point, it sounds to me like you are perfectly capable of defining your own morality.

mystic ermine
#

especially when tryna address a question such as that, you're generally gonna come in from the angle of the texts you believe in and then try to contractict it with other texts

#

But, that first text you believe in is generally gonna have a higher weight on your views outcome

#

and, well, that's the issue, is that you have to cut down the books to "the good stuff" to be able to defend your belief in it

#

I think that as humans we're flawed into wnating answers to stuff, and, shamefully, the answer "we don't know", is very caveated

faint radish
mystic ermine
faint radish
#

There seems to be a shift in perspectives, at least on the US, that freedoms come from laws, and the government

#

The government exists to take away freedoms. And the people say that is fine so long as the government does the job of protecting all the rest of them that we have regardless

#

Freedoms don’t emanate from the government

mystic ermine
#

"i'm from the government and i'm here to help"

faint radish
#

The government loves to take away freedoms and sell them back to you. That’s what a permit is. The government permitting you to do something.

#

And that’s not all bad ofc

mystic ermine
#

I mean, that's where it gets caveated af

faint radish
#

Gotta pay for my barber permit. Otherwise it’s illegal to cut someone else’s hair for money

weary lake
# faint radish Well the first part of this statement is a testament to a lot of what is wrong t...

Well, I'd argue that it could be either way. Of course, if you don't have any laws you'd have maximum freedom, with all of the possible consequences. But I'd argue that laws such as freedom of speech or freedom of religion could grant you more freedom when some other law would otherwise take it away from you. Naturally that situation only arises when such a law would be created, but for that scenario, that law just prevented you from getting more freedom taken away. I guess that's the better phrasing, "preventing freedom from being taken" rather than freedom in itself.

mystic ermine
#

the government takes away the freedom of companies to put ingredients in your food which can harm you

faint radish
#

Freedom of speech isn’t a law is what I am saying. It’s saying the government cannot make a law taking it away

#

That freedom exists beyond government, it’s super-legal in a sense.

#

The US has a philosophy that our rights are given to use by our “Creator”, now take that however you want, it means because I exist, I have those freedoms

#

Not because a law gives them to me

mystic ermine
#

the bill or rights isn't laws, etc, it's basically rules for the government

loud flax
weary lake
#

Well, maybe that's a language barrier on my part, I'd translate the position freedom of speech resides in where I live as a "law".

mystic ermine
#

e.g. the first amendment states that the US gov does not have the legal power to take away your rights of free speech

faint radish
#

Ok, didn’t know there was a language barrier there, ok maybe that’s it then. My bad

weary lake
loud flax
#

that's taking a huuuuuuuge leap of faith in humanity tbh

pure jetty
#

its argued between some scholars that the bill of rights doesn't need to exist technically for you to have those same rights but just make thing really super clear

loud flax
#

why are there referees in sports?

faint radish
#

But I think there is a societal shift in the US, away from that notion. People are more looking to the government to give them freedoms, instead of asking the government to stop restricting freedoms where they want them to stop.

mystic ermine
#

I mean, I'd argue that the bill of rights covers some pretty common sense stuff

loud flax
#

you think sports could exist if there was no one to officiate matches or make sure they played out well?

mystic ermine
#

Issue is as machine says, people want the government to start working outside of that, in the hopes of the government protecting them from the evils of the world

pure jetty
#

we have a referee it's called the justice system

faint radish
#

Yeah, some founding papas were against the bill of rights because they thought someone would say, that’s all the rights the people have

pure jetty
#

religion has no power in the united states but uhhh

mystic ermine
#

religion itself has no power, yet you swear on the bible, and the majority of people in control are generally religious in some capacity

loud flax
#

well my dad conducted an in-depth study on the influence of Jesus on our culture, and he came away with the idea that nothing came close to the influence of Christianity on our world

pure jetty
#

the last part is also optional too

#

very rare god is said in modern day court

near glen
weary lake
#

Assuming that's true, I'd say yes.

near glen
#

Countless wars and blood and shit in the name of someones imaginary friend

#

Religion only ever existed to control people

#

So that they don't think themselves

pure jetty
#

in rural places religion is also a really good community builder

near glen
#

But you can form communities without that

pure jetty
#

sure but nothing really ties a community together like it

near glen
#

You don't need to tell lies to get ppl together

mystic ermine
#

Yes, but humans love to be lazy, and we had this huge ass pretext of a book in order to gather around

loud flax
#

it is my view that people today are just as archaic as they were in the ancient world

mystic ermine
#

to answer all the questions we didn't have, to offer hope when shit looks bleak

near glen
#

Kekw

mystic ermine
#

It's like when somebody gets cancer and they're told they're terminal

plush crypt
mystic ermine
#

how often do you see sane, sensible people start looking at stuff which in their normal might they'd argue was obviously a scam, in the hopes of maybe finding a cure

near glen
#

Aren't we nice friends?

mystic ermine
#

that's the issue, people open up to these lies

#

That's the issue, is that people are so preconditioned to these lies that it's a tragedy

near glen
#

I mean, pretty easy to prove the first book of genesis wrong, lmao

pure jetty
#

yes mini for some people it's easier to give someone something to look forward too rather than giving them the hard truth

mystic ermine
#

NK is a prime example of this

near glen
#

(for the atheists, genisis is where god thanos snaps the world into existence in 6 days)

mystic ermine
#

The thing is that religion is often this sorta like self serving waterfall or hopes and beliefs

#

religious people often pass on their religious teachings to their children

near glen
#

On the low level

#

On the high level it's all about power and control

#

Oh and child rape, can't forget the child rape

mystic ermine
#

thankfully these days it's slowly being broken and more and more people are questining this stuff and breaking free from the stream

#

but, there will always be somebody so desperate as to fall into the cycle of control of the church, either through people who are so ingrained in the control of religion or through the churches themselves

#

walk down the street selling a book with the cure to cancer

#

Nobody sensible is gonna buy it

#

But, walk far enough and you're gonna find somebody desperate enough that they're willing to throw the cash into the false hopes of your book

#

religion just buys heavily into our human instinct of wanting answers to all our questions and uncertainties, and hopes to all our downfalls

near glen
mystic ermine
#

especially given that most people who are religious are brought into it from an early age, or are brought into it after some stupidly low point in their lives or some experience which they can't explain

shut vine
near glen
#

Mmh?

shut vine
#

I personally think that's a logical fallacy, let me know what you think.

near glen
#

I don't know what you are talking about

shut vine
#

If religion is bad because children have been molestered/raped/etc. Then Education would be too.

mystic ermine
#

I mean, there was a good catholic ring who where being protected by the church

#

Which is the joyous thing about the church is that they get flustered about such a topic yet still refuse to deal with it or let authorities deal with it

shut vine
#

Yeah, that's a single religion. Catholicism hardly represents Christianity. They literally executed the hero in the story.

near glen
#

Idk what particular cases you are referring too, i don't think that's a thing over here.
I was referring to the systematic issues in the catholic church with child molestering and how those caught have been handled (as in, moved to other sector and hidden, no other consequences)

#

Am not saying every catholic priest is a child rapist either

#

Most just don't mind working with child rapists, defend child rapists or hide child rapists

shut vine
#

Yeah I can agree with the Catholic church being disgusting.

#

The history of Catholicism was exactly as you described, a power thing. It was founded by Emperor Constantine to meld the Christian faith into their own faith.

mystic ermine
#

The thing is that I think that religion has generally outgrown its use in terms of a rulers thing, so now you've basically got a "mock" form of rulers in the form of the church who have 0 legal say on matters of politics but have enough sway on the public to "get their way" so to speak

shut vine
#

I would guess however that in the countries that recognize human rights as being important, most of them had a lot of Christian influence. That's not to say that correlation is causation, it may just be a symptom - that's the religion people with freedom seem to choose or that's the religion that flourishes.

#

Guess as in that's what seems to be the case to me, I don't have any hard facts on the matter.

mystic ermine
#

it's a good cop out for proper teaching of morality

shut vine
#

I agree mostly, that's why I support religion in only the sense of freedom of religion.

mystic ermine
#

"don't murder people because that's wrong" vs, "don't murder people because that's wrong and you'll be thrown in a firey pit for all eternity"

foggy fern
#

Constantine didn't create the church, he just stopped trying to punish its members

#

Theodosius made it the state religion, that was later

shut vine
#

He was at least the one who merged the Roman and Christian faiths.

#

The cross for example was his doing, which is actually from the Roman religion of the time.

#

Many of the special dates in Christianity were also replaced by him with those of significance from the Roman religion.

#

I would also argue that the First Council of Nicaea was founded by him, before Theodosius was even alive.

foggy fern
#

He definitely called for that council

#

I don't know how much power he had over them though, the bishops certainly thought he didn't have any

shut vine
#

I would also think that making something a state religion is not the same as foundation.

foggy fern
#

They saw his role as enforcing orthodoxy and their role determining what orthodoxy is

shut vine
#

I mean, I think his power laid in being able to unite the people of two religions.

#

My overall point was that that religion is not a very good representation of Christianity.

foggy fern
#

Neither is the bible, apparently 😛

#

You just have the follow what the bible means to say

shut vine
#

I mean, whoever said that would be incorrect

foggy fern
#

I said that, the Bible is full of horrible shit

shut vine
#

Ah, you're talking Old Testament?

foggy fern
#

It describes a petty asshole who apparently created everyone so he could fuck with them

shut vine
#

That is inaccurate.

foggy fern
#

Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person’s enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

loud flax
#

Is Jesus not as important as one's family?

weary lake
#

Imo no

restive seal
#

Some stranger who died 2000 years ago vs family? I guess it depends on how awful your family is.

loud flax
#

btw i don't think religion is the problem

#

if people invented religion, then religion is only as good as the people are, or only as bad as the people are

pure jetty
#

when it comes to actions sure but at the end of the day most religions push harmful beliefs

#

for exampole lgbtq rights

loud flax
#

right, and that is such a sensitive area

pure jetty
#

wat

loud flax
#

well, what if the rights the lgbt community wants will end up harming everyone else, this is why it's a sensitive topic

foggy fern
#

Not sure if antichrist argument or non-aggression principle argument

pure jetty
#

yeah equal treatment is gonna harm people sure bro

shut vine
#

That's not specifically religion however, that's human nature. Just because people who claim to practice a specific religion persecute a group of people and infringe on their rights is a reflection of the religion as a whole. That being said I'm not advocating the nirvana fallacy, I think there are definitely religions which are by their nature more harmful than others.

loud flax
#

something that has been pushed in canada is to make it hate speech to not refer to someone by their preferred pronoun

shut vine
#

Some would be considered evil by reasonable people.

loud flax
#

which, i'll say, i can respect someone's pronouns, but not by compulsion through some law

shut vine
#

Yeah doubt he's saying respect is a right anyone has.

pure jetty
#

it's just a social expectation called not being an asshole

shut vine
#

Generally JRoy is fairly balanced, though I don't always agree with him.

foggy fern
#

I thought the Canadian pronoun thing was about business relationships

#

Like if a business refuses to use your pronouns they can be fined

shut vine
#

The Canada thing was if I say to you I want to be called by a specific pronoun, the Human Rights Tribunal can fine you up to 100,000, and jail you until you pay and apologize basically.

#

Provided you refuse or forget.

loud flax
#

@foggy fern https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Act_to_amend_the_Canadian_Human_Rights_Act_and_the_Criminal_Code#Summary

An Act to amend the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Criminal Code

An Act to amend the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Criminal Code (Bill C-16, 2016; French: Loi modifiant la Loi canadienne sur les droits de la personne et le Code criminel) is a law passed by the Parliament of Canada. The law adds gender expression and gender identity as protected grounds to the Canadian Human Rights Act, and also to the Cri...

shut vine
#

It's a very totalitarian law to be honest.

foggy fern
#

I'm not getting what you're saying from what Wikipedia says

#

From looking at that it appears to just be a modifier to make other crimes like harassment more severe if they're motivated by gender identity

shut vine
#

That's because the whole picture is not the specific issue. Since it's an amendment.

foggy fern
#

According to legal experts, including law professors Brenda Cossman of the University of Toronto and Kyle Kirkup of the University of Ottawa, not using preferred pronouns would not meet legal standards for hate speech.

shut vine
#

The issue actually existed before C16, in my opinion.

pure jetty
#

regardless unless you think about getting the first amendment repealed that's nothing you'll ever see in the US (making hate speech in it of itself illegal)

#

however it can (and probably already is) grounds for a hate crime

#

which just increases the sentence of an attached crime

foggy fern
#

I guess in theory if you push at the law as hard as you can and a particular series of steps are taken and two bodies rule against you what you said might be possible

#

But it still seems to only apply to businesses?

#

Well, and the people who work for them

#

And only certain businesses

shut vine
#

The issue is particularly that the human rights tribunal basically is given a lot of latitude to decide what is and isn't considered part of the law, which existed before C16.

foggy fern
#

Like, it apparently doesn't even apply to universities

shut vine
#

Yeah it partially does since the law that was amended by C16 had those classifications/situations covered by it's protections.

#

40 (1) Subject to subsections (5) and (7), any individual or group of individuals having reasonable grounds for believing that a person is engaging or has engaged in a discriminatory practice may file with the Commission a complaint in a form acceptable to the Commission.

foggy fern
#

Huh, looks like Florida has banned social media

pure jetty
#

i remember seeing something like that

#

did it actually get passed? lmfao

foggy fern
#

Well, the law probably isn't actually enforceable for a variety of reasons but the only way social media companies could realistically comply with it is to block Floridians from using their services

pure jetty
#

commerce clause is probably an issue too

restive seal
#

Link to this?

foggy fern
#

DeSantis hasn't signed it yet apparently but it made it through both houses of congress and he was the one that asked them for this

keen swift
#

Why?

#

Bruh

faint radish
#

Just came across this guys tweet. Gotta be a troll right? I mean…come on https://twitter.com/unseeingeyes/status/1388548855709437954?s=21

Vincenzo Scipioni (@UnseeingEyes)

@VP And as you can see nobody gives a flying fuck you treasonous “we did it Joe” call girl-cunt. You did NOT win and both you and your husband belong in GITMO. 80 Million votes? You did t even get 50. And you aren’t qualified to Manage a McDonalds. You embody pure evil.

Likes

165

Twitter ·
#

Ignoring the bad language, the “…belong in GITMO.” Where’s that come from?

pure jetty
#

how do they have 60k followers

faint radish
#

Yeah I know

#

Also, call girl? Really?

shy gulch
mystic ermine
#

You mean like the lynching of parler when it turned it that they seemed to be the only social media platform actively alerting the services about this stuff?

#

I think social media is complex, especially when it's the primary platform for news and such these days, which is why it gets concerning when sites like big 3 social media platforms boot a highly influential politician for something which last I recall the act which "pushed their hand" fell completely apart timeline wise, then you have sites like CNN which knowingly and intentionally acted as part of a propaganda machine to instill fear into people, parler being forcefully booted off the internet for their hand in what happened on the 6th, yet they where apparently the only social media platform willing to stand up and say that it happened but they where working with the feds, yet most of the organisation happened on facebook/twitter

pure jetty
#

sure it can be concerning but there is no proper solution

#

the best solution is the current one

shy gulch
#

The Social Media scene is totally monopolized but having politicians decide what’s right and what’s wrong is generally not better then the companies themselves. Honestly if the current political environment was better I’d understand. Atm the only real reason why these laws are being passed is because radical and even just stupid republicans are upset they got banned on Twitter for insighting violence (“freedom of speech”). I guess someone has to decide what’s right and what’s wrong but sadly their will always be bias :/

mystic ermine
#

I somewhat disgree on the "insighting violence" aspect, but, if that's the case I'd argue that the rulings are 100% biased against republicans when you've got leftist politicians also beckoning the stuff they argue to be "war calls"

shy gulch
#

Tbh I’ve yet to see a valid example

#

Every case I’ve seen has one way or another been a valid ban

#

Sure there is a argument conservatives are attacked for these things more

#

But generally the bans are a result of a social media’s terms of service being broken

mystic ermine
#

I mean, last I recall the "pushing point" for trump was his speech for insightment, yet, he was midspeech when people where actively tryna break into the capital, and why was it so defenseless given that the feds where aware of the threat?

pure jetty
#

trump did more shit to get banned way before that too

shy gulch
#

Yeah...

pure jetty
#

twitter only did it because since he wasn't president it was no longer beneficial to have him on their website

shy gulch
#

His tweets and retweets after the capital riot were not exactly great

mystic ermine
#

it's not the only reason but that was what they pushed as a strong reason for it

shy gulch
#

This is a good watch

#

Trump 100% insighted the capital riot

mystic ermine
#

I think trumps rhetoric around a lot of suff was shitty and I can defo get why it lead to a ban, but, I mean, just the 6th as a whole is sketchy af

shy gulch
#

The idea that conservative politicians and republicans in genera have enforcement more heavily put on them because of bias is valid. The issue with these laws is that even tho conservatives might be targeted more for bans, the bans themselves still are validated considering these sites terms were still violated. Social Media does not need free speech to the fullest extent of the constitution because that easily results in the growth of hateful, violent ideology.

#

What should be happening is the push for the left to meet the same consequences for breaking a sites terms.

mystic ermine
#

My caveat is is that these sites highly rely on the defenses that the government give them to operate

#

Twitter is more than happy to host CP

pure jetty
#

if you think twitter is knowingly doing that you're just wrong

#

safe harbor laws are needed for any modern sites to operate

#

otherwise you 100% wouldn't see any republican on any site

mystic ermine
pure jetty
#

their content moderation is outsourced

#

last i knew

#

those are just mistakes

#

or bad actors on the moderation team

mystic ermine
#

And do they intend to improve upon this, as this is hardly a new issue, they're capable of blacklisting a wide range of media on their platform, but not this?

shy gulch
mystic ermine
#

Like, I get stuff slipping through, but, when media is repeatedly re-uploaded, it's a bit iffy imho

#

Not talking about anti-deplatform laws there

#

am talking about how they as a company rely on government protections

shy gulch
#

100%, way better then what they are attempting to do now.

pure jetty
#

i mean this anti-deplatform shit isn't gonna go thru anyway

mystic ermine
#

Like, they repeatedly refused to remove the content of some child being sassaulted, and their defense is 230

pure jetty
#

again this was like a handful of examples

mystic ermine
#

The thing is that they have little interest to improve these systems because they have a catchall piece of law which gets them off in 99.9% of cases here

pure jetty
#

and as it should

#

unless they took a hardcare stance on keeping it

#

which wasn't the case here

#

it seemed to be a small problem with their moderation

mystic ermine
#

I'm too drained to pull it apart more, but, here's a summary from somebody:
I haven't fully read it and all the details but one of the articles links to a copy of the court filings. https://www.scribd.com/document/491614044/Doe-v-Twitter

From what I very quickly skimmed it appears that it was reported to Twitter multiple times, including with police reports concerning the child abuse material and also verifying his identity through drivers licence to confirm he was indeed the person in the video. Twitter took a week to respond to the report saying that there was no violation of their rules and didn't remove the content. The video remained on the platform for 10 days from the first time the plaintiff reported the content to Twitter (reported 20th Jan, removed 30th Jan 2020). The account that was posting the abuse material had been reported to Twitter before for posting child abuse material and Twitter didn't act. It was only after authorities intervened and gave notice to Twitter to remove it that Twitter did, but the person who was posting the content created a new account using the same name and continued posting child abuse material. Before the video was removed it had 167,000 views and over 2200 retweets (seriously, what the fuck?).

Scribd
Doe v Twitter

Complaint - Doe v Twitter; cause no. 3:21-cv-00485; filed 1/20/2021

#

Like, it seems twitter can act fast and decisevely against other matters, but, in this case it took a government agency to knock to actually get the content dealt with

glossy sandal
#

They employ the Facebook method of ignore it until you get summoned to testify in front of
Congress

pure jetty
#

well what probably happened is the first request just got forwarded to content moderation they ruled incorrectly and that gets marked as the final ruling. then once the legal notice came through and it got forwarded to lawyers, competent humans, and realized what was going on

shy gulch
#

doubt they purposefully kept cp on Twitter. They are a company, that’s not exactly great pr. They for sure need to get their priorities straight lmao.

mystic ermine
#

My annoyance is that they have things like 230 which protects them to stupid levels of degree which allows stuff like cases of this to just be 🤷‍♂️

#

This is hardly the first time it happens and is one of those long standing underbellies of social media

shy gulch
#

Yeah, the issue with 230 being removed is social media could then be openly attacked.

mystic ermine
#

You'd hope that by now they'd have a better stance on this stuff, and it's only because the parent knew somebody who worked for the home office that the content finally got dealt with

pure jetty
#

i would be fine with 230 being amended to require an amount of spending towards content moderation based on company revenue and user count

mystic ermine
#

Well,yea, that's the horrors is getting any logical amendments these days is just, urgh...

shy gulch
#

If 230 is removed censorship would be heavily increased (possibly negatively) and people could attack sites by getting them in legal troubles by posting illegal content.

#

A lot needs to be taken into account

pure jetty
#

right, i don't think revoking 230 is likely to happen either

mystic ermine
#

you've got the two extremes where one side is perfectly content and wants 0 change, and the other who just wants a straight up nuke of it

shy gulch
#

Removing 230 is not the best solution

#

It seems like the easiest but it will cause even more problems

foggy fern
#

Normally my answer here is to break them up but twitter isn't something you even could break up, afaik

#

I mean, they only really do one thing

#

So I'll fall back on ban social media 😄

pure jetty
#

breaking up companies wasn't really a tool made for the age of internet companies

#

oh i don't mean ISPs

#

those are a good example of what you should split up

foggy fern
#

The real solution to the problems I have with twitter is to delete the trending section and the "More Tweets" section

pure jetty
#

i meant like google, amazon, twitter

#

stuff like that

foggy fern
#

And any other place where they try to drive you to other users

pure jetty
#

companies based on a website

#

lol trending is like half kpop half mc stans nowadays

#

u s e l e s s

mystic ermine
#

Far too many orgs these days earn much more on division vs on serving as a tool

foggy fern
#

youtube is more than happy to drive a million users to a conservative channel because they have such high "engagement" so sending more people is likely to make youtube more money

#

Then that channel pushes the line a little too much, gets banned, and it becomes a big deal because youtube made them popular first

pure jetty
#

least they're starting to demonetize some of the more extreme ones

foggy fern
#

Right, worse than being banned, they're put in "give us free money" jail

#

Youtube still wants their content and "engagement"

pure jetty
#

sure i guess

#

i remember youtube put a "viability" clause in their TOS recently (meaning they will terminate people not commercially viable)

#

i wonder if they'll start using that

foggy fern
#

You mean "you're costing us money so banned"?

#

They've been doing that from the beginning 😛

pure jetty
#

right they can terminate for whatever

#

but they recently clarified it

#

which was interesting

pure jetty
#

Twitter now doing this when you retweet news

#

Based asf

#

Probably won't stop anything tho

#

I wish they would put an indicator under retweets if the person didn't read it

glossy sandal
#

LOL

mystic ermine
#

Thing is that it doesn't mean jack

#

all it tracks is on twitter, so can read and then spot a post and share and boom, you've "not read it", meanwhile, all you gotta do to get the flag is to click the article, close the tab and then hit share

keen swift
#

Politics of PaperMC

#

Triage Team starting a coo to overthrow Core Team

tough cedar
#

https://apnews.com/article/politics-campaign-2016-election-2020-government-and-politics-f3428d42d4d3fdfe59c560b6fadbbc70

AP NEWS
Whose 'Big Lie'? Trump's proclamation a new GOP litmus test

WASHINGTON (AP) — Donald Trump and his supporters are intensifying efforts to shame — and potentially remove — members of their party who are seen as disloyal to the former president and his false claims that last year's election was stolen from him. On Capitol Hill, Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming, the No. 3 Republican in the House, risks losing her...

#

oh boy

keen swift
#

Hes still gripping on

#

imagine Trump/someone he prepares running for 2024, TOTALLY would not happen

restive seal
#

I've seen a lot of "TRUMP IN 2024" signs.

keen swift
#

Theres one house in my neighbor hood with every trump sign there is

sweet canyon
pure jetty
#

lmfao

#

its his own blog

#

all of which have twitter and facebook share buttons

sweet canyon
#

I didn't even know he was still posting on his website still this whole time

#

Yeah

shy gulch
#

Why tf is this being called a social media platform??

#

It’s legit just his own fucking blog

#

I do like how he writes to it as if it’s Twitter lmao

shut vine
#

I don't see any specific reference to him calling it a social media platform, unless I'm missing something seems like media are just calling it that.

shy gulch
#

Yeah, I’m not talking about Trump himself

#

These news sites and such

#

Stupid headlines

shut vine
#

I wasn't responding directly to you btw, but no big deal

#

Also looks like they took their time reporting on it, the first "user" posted to the "platform" weeks ago.

#

Ah apparently there is a video, will have to see.

foggy fern
#

Either they didn't spot it before or Trump started posting to it before it went live, doesn't seem like something that would have been missed though so probably the latter

#

Guessing they were iterating on making it as easy and familiar as possible for him to post so when it went live he could open the floodgates again

shut vine
faint radish
#

Daughter and mom rigged election, fire the mom, suspend the daughter, have new election.

#

I didn’t realize “homecoming queen” was that important an election.

#

A public school maybe? So misuse of taxpayer dollars or smth, idk

shut vine
#

Seems like it's likely to revolve around this charge: Offenses against users of computers, computer systems, computer networks and electronic devices (third-degree felony)

near glen
#

Yeah, hacking laws are really harsh for no reason at all

shut vine
#

Well the school has every incentive to push hard on police to charge them regardless, it looks horrible for them.

meager ice
#

its mostly a holdover from the past when security was non existent and the only barrier to hacking was the law

pure jetty
#

the Fraud and Abuse act has no severity distinction

#

even sharing your netflix password is grounds for full penalties

faint radish
#

Did they even hack? I thought I read that the mom just had access to the system

mystic ermine
#

I mean, "hack" is a pretty broad term in social culture these days

#

guessing your mates password from the fact that they had a cat called simba is considered hacking to many

faint radish
#

Meanwhile… this is horrifying, and hilarious. It’s horrifarious.

image0.jpg
mystic ermine
#

these types of laws generally cover unauthrorised access/misuse of the system

pure jetty
pure jetty
#

they tend to trust their own party

faint radish
#

I know, which is why it’s horrifying and hilarious. There’s no way it’s an accurate picture of the economy

mystic ermine
foggy fern
#

Huh, usually those show 10-20 point swings on the Democrats while the Republicans swing wildly

#

Or at least the ones I've seen over the last decade

#

I guess Democrats are playing the same games now

#

Like, that increase over 4 years is explainable, the sudden drops and sudden spikes are just partisan bullshit

shut vine
#

I think in regards to the poll data from 538, it's possible it's a difference in the questions compared or the way people understand the questions. i.e. "is the economy getting worse" vs "do you believe the current policies will be good or bad for the economy". Be interesting to see the poll questions asked in the data they compare.

pearl plinth
#

what is this

mystic ermine
#

Politics is every few years where you pick the person who makes receiving an anal fucking sound the most fun

pearl plinth
#

my gf?

#

wait

#

i misinterpreted the question

urban vector
near glen
#

Tories = con?

urban vector
#

Yup

#

The constituency has been Labour since 67 or something like that

mystic ermine
#

I mean, labour has only attacked their key voter pool over the past few dozen years and a good % of them feel that the party has left them rather than them being the obvious option for workers

#

Starmer is basically considered a tory lite, and after the damage they did to the party over the past few years, ooof... Corbyn made himself become too unelectable to a good % of the working class, which was labours primary voting pool bar the younger generation, then they got rid of him which ejected a good % of the younger pool who stick to voting labour out of principle, but, hartlepool has generally gone to shit over the past few dozen years, and, well, tories actually offer cash, which is shitty and basically buying votes, but, I really can't blame hartlepool for wanting something different

#

fwiw, labour lost their majority last by election there, just brexituk or whatever it was basically stole enough votes from the tories to keep labour ahead, and in an unsurprising manner, that party disappeared and the labour party really had little interest in picking themselves up as they for some reason have this complex of "we can't lose" more or less, they obliterated the "red wall" as it's so called

urban vector
#

yeah i can't really imagine how much more of a shit show it would've been if BXP didn't exist

foggy fern
#

UK political shift isn't going quite the same as in the US

#

In the US the blue collar white men moved to the Republican party but Democrats picked up college educated people in exchange. More and more people are going to college and college educated people are more consistent voters so it's probably in their favor

pure jetty
#

one of my favorite videos

mystic ermine
#

I mean, part of the thing is that the left generally doesn't care to get out and vote here

#

Like, I think most people generally don't care to vote as you're stuck between two parties

#

You got one party which seems to have half a clue of what it is or what it wants, and then you have the party which is "kinda" corrupt, but, I mean, if you vote for them maybe they'll give you some hand outs

glossy sandal
urban vector
#

i think the biggest problem is how completely and utterly incompetent Labour are combined with the biased media

mystic ermine
mystic ermine
#

https://whocanivotefor.co.uk/elections/local.kingston-upon-thames.chessington-south.by.2021-05-06/chessington-south/

Who Can I Vote For? by Democracy Club
Kingston upon Thames local election: The 19 candidates in Ches...

See all 19 candidates in the Kingston upon Thames local election on 6 May 2021:

  Baron Von Achenbach (Official Monster Raving Loony Party)

  Michelle Akintoye (Kingston Independent Residents Group)

  Charles Bamford (Labour Party)

  Undertaking Director Brunskill (Official Monster Raving Loony Party)

...

faint radish
#

Fingers crossed it doesn’t land on someone

mystic ermine
#

LOL

faint radish
#

yeah, was a literal LOL for me too

mystic ermine
near glen
#

Well Jake that pic isn't true

#

The falcon first stage burns in orbit too, and they crashed down before too

#

But yes spacex at least tries

faint radish
#

I mean... its a meme

#

also, the second stage is designed in such a way that nothing is left over after re-entry, and they have control over the re-entry

#

this Chinese rocket... totally uncontrolled and some stuff is expected to survive

near glen
#

Which is what I mean with at least tries

#

But spacex had uncontrolled decent before for failed launches

faint radish
#

man, just let me make fun of this one incident 😜

#

mini coming in here, just ruining everything... 😆

faint radish
#

Ok, that… is funny.

#

Guy got suspended from his job for it, but he got $700k from a go fund me, so he’s gonna be just fine.

#

“That doesn’t make sense to me… but then again, you are really good at basketball.”

pure jetty
#

mega cringe video

faint radish
#

Looks like he was just reinstated at his job actually.

#

I didn’t think it was cringe, I thought it was pretty funny

mystic ermine
#

I mean, it was kinda cringy

#

But, I mean, the nature of it is kinda comical

keen smelt
#

Definetly a bit cringy

pure jetty
#

yeah i get what he's trying to say and he's not too off but just the delivery and the format was cringe

#

typical tiktok

tough cedar
#

kinda cringe and maybe strawmanning too

#

totally get the joke though, tiktok tho

shy gulch
#

Unfunny and cringe

#

The he’s bad at basket ball and the; “Michael Jordan’s the goat” shit kills me

#

So cringe

narrow ore
#

I mean SpaceX usually does a de-orbit burn of the 2nd stage after deploying the payload, but occasionally it runs out of fuel/doesn’t work and it has an uncontrolled reentry. See: https://www.reddit.com/r/space/comments/mdgquu/rocket_breakup_over_portland_or/
And yes, most of it burns up but not all of it: https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/2/22364582/spacex-rocket-debris-falls-farm-washington
SpaceX does try harder than most, and the problem is that the Chinese rocket isn’t designed to restart its engines in orbit

faint radish
#

Yeah, I think the thing is, that it’s done this twice now, both times this rocket has launched. Also public pressure isn’t something the Chinese government is known to cave too.

foggy fern
#

Steph Curry is the GOAT, obviously

faint radish
#

I heard an interesting thing... if he keeps it up, he could win a second scoring title, and become only the 3rd person to win multiple scoring titles, mvps and championships

#

wait 4th I think. with wilt, kareem, and michael

urban vector
#

I believe another thing to consider is that SpaceX calculate whereabouts the debris will land in order to minimise risk, whereas China (I hate lumping it on a whole country but this will have to do) just throw it without regards for risk. Obviously both are in the wrong. We've had the ability to safely retrieve and land debris for years now, there is no excuse beyond valuing cost savings over life/environment. However, it is clear that SpaceX (as much as it pains me to defend them) do it better than others.

mystic ermine
#

China's situation was a failure, in which they basically gotta learn

#

Shamefully, given that our angencies don't generally share knowledge, they gotta fuck up on their own

urban vector
#

Yeah it's not the first time they did this though, and iirc it wasn't a mistake/failure the other time - it was on purpose

dusky raft
#

why land in a specific place when you can just land it anywhere?

#

thankfully no one was hurt in that incident, or severe damage to property

foggy fern
near glen
faint radish
#

well... I think its a failure to be a good space citizen. The rocket may have performed as expected, but ya

#

love the daily hopper

near glen
#

Well, yes, it's a failure in that regard. But since this is the second time I wouldn't count on the learning part

faint radish
#

yeah, China, known for caving to international pressure 😆

near glen
#

It's really amazing how much things you don't know when you grow up as a white male

torn wadi
#

Or grow up in a country that just doesn't care about that?

faint radish
#

what is he talking about regarding hair?

torn wadi
#

Oppression, due to hair style.

near glen
#

I just went back thru my life, I can name 2 black boys from school, one from my team, and his sister. That's all black ppl i have met and talked to for more than 5 minutes in my whole life

faint radish
#

who is oppressing who cause of their hair?

near glen
#

The two boys at school I never shared classes with, the boy from my team only played a year with us and his sister i don't think i spoke to more than a few sentences

#

No black adults I can remember

near glen
#

Vid is worth watching if you can spare the time

faint radish
#

I'd hardly call enforcing a work dress code oppression tho right? Jobs have had their own dress codes for a long time. And they also have changed pretty dramatically over time. Just look at technology companies

near glen
#

Well, examples included class centers

faint radish
#

idk what hair styles hes talking about tho. Ill watch later, dont have time right now

near glen
#

Call*

torn wadi
#

Traditional African american hair styles.

near glen
#

And generally, what you need to understand that this is part of their identity

#

This isn't a style, this is natural

faint radish
#

if someone shows up to a law office with spiked hair thats 10 different colors... that'll affect their business in a negative way.

near glen
#

Because that's how far this oppression has come to

faint radish
#

spiked hair thats 10 different colors isn't natural

#

it is a style

near glen
#

We aren't talking about those extremes

#

Also: dress codes in general can fuck of

#

Unless its like: no bathrobes in the resterants at a hotel

torn wadi
#

We didn't have a dress code till someone pushed the limits too far. kekwhyper

pure jetty
#

yeah i don't really like those outside of business casual

#

suits/dresses are too much

faint radish
#

(playing devil's advocate here)

near glen
#

Don't pull a straw man

#

It's a practical restriction

#

Bath robes = wet = no bueno in a restaurant

faint radish
#

there are dress codes that are also practical restrictions I would assume

mystic ermine
#

I mean, it depends, now, you don't neccessarily want some rainbow spikey haired tourtoise tryna represent your company on the global stage in an uber professional market as lets face it, even if we say we're open and diverse, we all make deep instinctual judgements on people

#

but, imho, people shouldn't be forced to drop their cultures form of stuff like hair as long as it doesn't impact the company, but, you gotta accept that if your hair is what is deemed as scruffy in a professional sense, you're gonna be limited in a professional sense, and, that does defo kinda suck ass, but, it's not all too much of a surprise, imho

glossy sandal
near glen
#

Because ppl come from the beach or pool

shy gulch
#

A lot of companies ban religious and cultural symbology not because they are inherently discriminatory but because they want to be as bland and unassociative as possible. If you aren’t appealing to one group you are appealing to many. The same way you might be required to wear a suited dress code instead of being able to wear a shirt of your favorite band.

#

Ofc your cultural and religious identity being more important then who your favorite band is but realistically this is how the sad and bland suits operate 🤷‍♀️

faint radish
#

This can’t be real…

image0.jpg
#

The group that did the ransomware attack on the pipeline in the US is apologizing?

#

Gonna start moderating which companies they attack now.

#

That is too good to be true right?

tough cedar
#

i've heard that groups doing ransomware want to avoid making large problems

#

as then they get "looked at"

#

so they try and avoid companies/institutions or whatever that could get people killed due to being locked out of the system

#

so some of them will try and avoid hospitals

#

the ones that want to only make money that is

faint radish
pure jetty
#

yeah i read his book

#

cool dude

near glen
#

This whole randoms where attack on the pipeline is so funny

#

Like, first, I learned that there is like only this one pipeline in that part of the US

#

No redundancy

#

Which, when I look at Europe, is really surprising, similarly surprising when I learned about your fragmented energy net when ppl were freezing to death in texas (there's only one net in europe)

pure jetty
#

that's only Texas

near glen
#

Then, why is it physically possible that you can get infected with ransomware?

pure jetty
#

literally everything else in the US is connected

#

texas just don't want to be taxed for stuff tied to power

near glen
#

Like, this isn't an attack. You don't get attacked by ransomware. You get infected because your security sucks

pure jetty
#

and that turned out well for them

mystic ermine
#

critical infra being unsecure as shit

#

eerr...

#

You do know we are talking about the US govs dealings here, rite?

near glen
#

But your net is still framemented other than that, my dad told me this Sunday, he building some machine for the US and had to call the local electricians to ask what frequency they have there, because it's different for states, and sometimes even counties

mystic ermine
pure jetty
#

yeah its fragmented for sure

#

but different than what happened in texas

near glen
#

I also learned that you power oven and stove with 120 volt or smth insane like that?

mystic ermine
#

they have 240V

pure jetty
#

uhh they may be 240

mystic ermine
#

or, well, 220V, or there arounds

pure jetty
#

our power system is actually 240

near glen
#

Ah maybe that's a local thing then

pure jetty
#

we just have two 120 phases

near glen
#

Meanwhile my oven has 3 phases

mystic ermine
#

but, why

#

I guess for load balancing it's nice, but, don't really need 3 phase for an oven unless it's some industrial crap

pure jetty
#

actually now that i think of it, the fragmented software may be a blessing in disguise. because if one gets breached, chances a power station a mile down the road runs something totally different

#

lowering the attack surface

near glen
#

I wasn't talking about software

pure jetty
#

that being said it would be epic if we had super updated shit everywhere

mystic ermine
#

I mean, ideally this stuff is managed by competent providers rather than cheapest bidder

pure jetty
#

yeah

near glen
#

The output frequency of the power net is different

#

From state to state

mystic ermine
#

pretty sure US is 60 across the board?

pure jetty
#

if it varies we're talking less than one hertz deviation

near glen
#

Idk, maybe I misunderstood smth

#

I don't listen too closely when my dad rambles like that, lol

#

But he's good at his job so I must have something mixed up 🤷‍♂️

#

That's another cool thing, he needs to fly over to supervise the installation of his machine for two weeks, so he needs a work visa

#

You can only get them in 3 big cities in germany, have to travel there

#

His appointments where cancelled twice now, via SMS, no reason provided

faint radish
#

New head of NASA wants to be referred to in public docs as Administrator Senator Bill Nelson

#

Gotta be illegal somehow… can’t just combine titles like that😛😛

foggy fern
#

Just because it's 60 Hz doesn't mean it's in sync across the country

#

iirc there are still a few separate grids, they just cross state lines so are regulated by the federal government

dusky raft
#

yeah, while the grids can send power to each other, its usually a conversion from AC to DC back to AC

#

usually to make up the difference in syncing problems

mystic ermine
#

Yea, I guess not being tied together makes more sense than an actual different frequency

faint radish
#

Oooo who wants to comment on what’s going down with Israel/Palestine right now?

torn wadi
#

_Can't comment on something that doesn't exist. _

pure jetty
#

all im seeing is cringe twitter morons who have no business talking about foreign policy over simplify the conflict by making comments about foreign policy

near glen
#

Is this where I say "Israel bad", remember that am a Germany and apperently have some historical burden and have to say "Israel good"?

#

Seriously tho, fuck netanyahu

faint radish
#

Why do you have a historical burden? Don’t quite think you were around back then

near glen
#

Way to fuel a conflict for his own political gain

#

Germany generally officially always supports Israel

#

Cause else they cry and call us anti semites

#

They still think we owe them money too

#

I will never understand how you can call me an antisemite when I say fuck Israel but I don't make the rules 🤷‍♂️

torn wadi
near glen
#

But yeah, Israel and netanyahu have annoyed me for quite some time now, and even tho the situation is really fucked up, I am somewhat glad this gets pulled into the public eye again

#

This time I don't see many agreeing with Israel

#

No clue if our gov said anything official yet tho

torn wadi
#

It really isn't a question of if, only when.

near glen
#

Merkel is tried 🤷‍♂️

#

And it's election season

#

Not a topic ppl here wanna touch I guess

faint radish
near glen
#

Ah yes, I knew it

torn wadi
#

Just a copy paste from the US response.

faint radish
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This is a difference between uncontrolled rocket strikes from Hamas, and targeted military strikes (even if those strikes cause civilian casualties).

Those aren’t moral equivalents.

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Obv, it’s all bad, but they shouldn’t be looked at as the same thing

near glen
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One is a form of protest, the other is an execution

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Hamas knows they can't do real damage, Israel got a good shield

faint radish
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Yikes. Ok.