#politics

1 messages · Page 60 of 1

mystic ermine
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I mean, it's kinda funny some of the stuff, however

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I think that trump's been the only president in the past like 20 years or something stupid who openly supported LGBT people before running for office

pure jetty
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trump changed a lot of his values once he ran

mystic ermine
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I think that a lot of issues are pressed to be too "flat" once they get into the hands of the media

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There are defo some issues in which concerns me around trump, but, I think it's pretty clear that the media had a proboner against him on one side and a proboner for him on the other

pure jetty
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yeah definitely

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probably deserved in that case however

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but I don't think is something that should be used all the time as a media reporting tool

mystic ermine
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The problem is the media camps

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CNN had a fucking huge boost over the past like 5 years riding the trump hate

pure jetty
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yeah 100% most media did

mystic ermine
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Fox has some convervative presenters but all in all the network sorta like tends to grift between what seems to be the most popular opinion in their circle of knowing that they're conservative tainted

pure jetty
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The problem now is finding how to keep that train going

mystic ermine
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Fox ain't gonna go full demmie, but, you could defo see a change in their presentation after biden was declared the winner

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they fucking uni reversed faster than your spinxher closes when you jump in a freezing cold pool

pure jetty
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I think traditional media is doing ok but this new online media kind that is now showing their clear lack of experience and basic understanding of how political systems work

tough cedar
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idk that fox is a bunch of grifters... they just didn't go as far right as the base they radicalized lol

pure jetty
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And it sucks because most of the are left and that fucking sucks when you have to conceed SO MUCH ground about shit that stupid leftists say while still saying your party is good and those people are a minority

mystic ermine
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I mean, as somebody who sorta like watches a few media sources here and there, there was defo a huge switch in their presentation once biden won

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Like, maybe not the same day, but, there was a defo switch in the general sorta like representation, they didn't go demmie but defo cut down on the trump level politics

pure jetty
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Yeah mainstream media is pretty well behaved now

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The fucking online grifters are the ones that have gone fucking apeshit

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most of them are socialist too so you can't really expect them to be rooted in reality

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There's very little actual decent online leftists

mystic ermine
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Biggest issue I see is that very few are willing to call out their own party for shit

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and then seemingly project that onto the other side

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Like, i've seen it even in here, as somebody who leans right there was a goooood few people in here who was basically screaming as if anybody on the right supported what happened on the 6th

pure jetty
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I think that issue lies more in republicans nowadays

mystic ermine
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and, it's like, no, not at all, fuck those who did that

pure jetty
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yeah

faint radish
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Oh ok. Haven’t people been murdering each other for eons to? Do we need police to address that?

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Is having a knife fight suddenly an OK thing?

mystic ermine
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Police are trained to deescalate stuff

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Yea, that's correct, and they defo need better practices there

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but, how the fuck you you deescalate somebody tryna shove a knife into somebody as you get out of the car

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like, jesus fuck

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and if the woman stabbed the other person if they tried to de-escalate the situation people would be morning the knife victim and screaming about how cops refuse to defend black people

faint radish
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Yeah, de-escalation is the ideal goal, but this girl was about to stab someone right in front of the cop

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Like, it looks to have gone from 0-100 in about 3 seconds

pure jetty
foggy fern
faint radish
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And to the whole “why didn’t the cop shoot her leg or smth”, hitting a smaller part of the body isn’t as easy as movies/tv shows would say. Cops aren’t Jack Bauer where they are all literally the best marksman, especially under stress. You shoot at the largest target to ensure you actually hit the person.

pure jetty
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Yeah

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In time critical situations you can't be expected to hit that

faint radish
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From the video, after the shot, I get the feeling from the other 2 cops there that they were shocked at what had just happened.

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It happened so fast, I don’t know if they just didn’t see, or if there was a better action to take to resolve the situation and it’s not clear in the video

foggy fern
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Getting shot in the leg can be more deadly than a gut shot anyway

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Old school gut shot you'd be more likely to die from infection or internal bleeding they didn't find but now you really only worry about how long you'll be stable and you can bleed out pretty fast through the leg

faint radish
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well if you hit the femoral, certainly

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its like 10 seconds

tough cedar
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without ever having been shot i think i'd want to be shot in the gut rather than the leg

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gut over everything really lol

faint radish
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there's a spot in your shoulder area where it can hit like nothing

foggy fern
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Yeah that or a graze, otherwise you're fucking up a bone or muscle I want to use 😛

tough cedar
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oh, yea that'd be more preferable just a graze lol

foggy fern
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I could see on your chest between your lung and your actual shoulder blade maybe, you'd just break your collarbone

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Which is still pretty bad, hurts to breathe

faint radish
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Looks like Lebron deleted this tweet.

image0.jpg
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Which... is probably a smart move

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(That’s the cop who shot the 16 yr old in Columbus yesterday)

tough cedar
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oh boy, so many ways you could interpret that tweet

faint radish
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yeah exactly

foggy fern
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This is why you don't ragetweet

pure jetty
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Lmfao what a garbo tweet

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Lawyer probably nuked that one

eager hawk
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more like rather too many people don't have the ability to decipher what the truth is -- we read too much sensationalized, exaggerated sources

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the internet made it so that the individual has more autonomy over what news info is taken in

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but with social media algorithms tending towards feeding people into alt-left and alt-right propaganda, there's a larger proportion of people taking in radical opinions written online

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the public has went from relying on more or less neutral sources like BBC and our local news stations, to modern day CNN and FOX. If you look at FOX and CNN's ads for their news stations from the 90's, boy is what they say ironic to what they stand for today.

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also i didn't know tasers had to be charged before they are used. is there no way for a taser to be more quickly deployed with advanced technology?

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but yeah, seriously the cop was in a lose-lose situation then, shoot the knife wielder or let the stabbing take place. but i guess people can argue the stabbing wouldn't have been lethal or that the cop didn't have to fire four shots

shut vine
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I believe the biggest issue in the modern media is journalistic objectivity has been pushed aside for clicks. Basically traditional news outlets have been feeling the squeeze of social media where anyone can be a journalist and are struggling to capture the attention of people unless they use similar tactics to the people getting the best results on social media. Sadly most of those people are radical.

mystic ermine
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very few people here in the UK trust the BBC

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Well, I mean, by % points, a good chunk of people have cancelled their licenses

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I know I'm one of them

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We're talking about the company which harasses people because they can't afford a license or don't wanna pay for a service they're not using

eager hawk
eager hawk
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and then there's rupert murdoch lol

mystic ermine
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The BBC is really joyous

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They use the defence that "as many left as right people complain about bias"

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yet, their news reports in the evening generally tend to favour leftist arguments either through generally lack of reporting, allocation of air time, or just general ignorance to the issue

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meanwhile their sorta like, "day time" tv politic show, questiontime I think it was, is well known for having like tory plants

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then you get shit like that

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and bearing in mind that we're expected to pay like £150 a year for this, while they have ex criminals harassing single mothers and OAPs and often lying to them and acting as if they have any legal capacity, and we're supposed to support this organisation while they produce stuff using our tv license money which they then hand over to their sorta like "international company" for cut rate prices and sell to the rest of the world/netflix, and we're told that it would cost like £400 if we wanted to get rid of the tv license and make it a subscription

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bbc KNOWs that they've lost the credability of a good organisation, just, their reporting tends to flip flop in terms of bias through the day in a way that they can aim to pull in sorta like an equal amount of pissed off ness from both sides

foggy fern
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_White

Dan White

Daniel James White (September 2, 1946 – October 21, 1985) was an American politician who assassinated San Francisco Mayor George Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milk, on Monday, November 27, 1978, at City Hall. In a controversial verdict that led to the coining of the legal slang "Twinkie defense", White was convicted of manslaughter rather than ...

dusky raft
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@mystic ermine didnt the UK government try to force their citizens to pay for the BBC?

mystic ermine
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if you don't watch TV, you don't gotta pay

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the government basically makes the BBC responsible for it, and the BBC basically has a company or something called "TV licensing" who generally hire goons around, and not paying for a license and watching TV/live broadcast is a criminal offence

dusky raft
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oh, the big companies in the US would LOVE to have that here.

foggy fern
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The company responsible pretends they're a police force to try to coerce you in to paying

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I don't think those big companies would love being owned by the government and not making their current owners money anymore 😛

mystic ermine
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Yea, they basically love to come in, lie and act as if they have like the powers of a barrister to welcome themselves onto your property and into your place

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the joy is that you can literally just shut the door on them and they can basically do jack shit

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ofc, if they catch you watching TV somehow, i.e. glance through the window they can report you, but, generally, they have the powers of fuck all, but, that's generally why they hire thuggish ass people as they love to be like assertive asshats

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and we're supposed to have respect for them pestering grannies and single parents into paying especially with the current economy, the only people it catches and fucks over is those who are already on the weaker end of society

faint radish
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94-1 vote. (Thought the embed would say that)

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The most famous -1 vote is probably the US declaration of war on Japan the day after Pearl Harbor. 1 person voted no.

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I think it was a woman who was a pure pacifist

glossy sandal
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Who voted no

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Josh Hawley ok

faint radish
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeannette_Rankin
Oh I thought you meant the other one.

Jeannette Rankin

Jeannette Pickering Rankin (June 11, 1880 – May 18, 1973) was an American politician and women's rights advocate, and the first woman to hold federal office in the United States. She was elected to the U.S. House of Representatives as a Republican from Montana in 1916, and again in 1940.
Each of Rankin's Congressional terms coincided with initia...

faint radish
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I swear I saw a headline that said chauvin could get up to 75 years

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Which means you can only be punished for one conviction (the most severe one)

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So it’s a max of 40 years, but state guidelines suggest 11-15 for someone with no prior offenses.

glossy sandal
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Imo he may be convicted but he ain't gonna get more than 5 years

torn wadi
mystic ermine
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over in the UK you basically only serve 1/2 of your sentence unless they deem you a threat to society on release

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Over here theres like a somewhat coloquial joke over here, in regards to marriage and sorta like a general comment of our laws is that, basically, "you'd get less for murder"

foggy fern
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"good time" varies by state I think and federal you have to serve at least 85% of your time

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Iowa is at least 50%

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On a different note, remember that time Matt Gaetz was the only one who voted against a sex trafficking bill?

pure jetty
shut vine
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Consecutive sentencing is very rare.

faint radish
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well I dont think you can get consecutive sentencing, or even have a sentence for more than one charge per crime

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chauvin only committed one act

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cant be punished twice for one act

pure jetty
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He's just going to get sentenced for the crime with the biggest jail time

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So murder

shut vine
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You can for a single act, as long as there are multiple crimes associated I think. But it's very rare, and the criteria for such a sentence is pretty strict.

faint radish
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This is so amazing

loud flax
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😦

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the interview like/dislike ratio

unknown.png
faint radish
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Yeah... that’s bad

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290:1.

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Is there a worse one? Idk what the rewinds were

loud flax
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not sure

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yeah the rewinds were bad

faint radish
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19 mil:3 mil dislike:like

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So this is WAY worse than that

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(2018 rewind)

broken raven
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Can someone send the link for whatever this is here please?

loud flax
broken raven
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thanks

loud flax
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you're welcome

faint radish
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“Do you know who else has mornings? Russia”. Perfect for msnbc

mystic ermine
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Oh god

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the accuracy of that is scary

faint radish
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Babylon Bee, most accurate reporting! 💯

mystic ermine
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daily wire 😂

glossy sandal
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Wheres buzzfeed madge

foggy fern
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I do wonder sometimes if people realize AOC graduated near the top of her class from Boston University (and wasn't rich enough to have her parents buy a dorm or something to get her through)

near glen
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The aware for dummest headline of the week goes tooooo

foggy fern
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She gets treated like she is some poor dumb bartender in over her head

near glen
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"Biden appears to be only world leader to wear a mask at virtual climate summit
Leaders who could be seen without masks included Putin, Merkel, Erdogan, and EU bigwigs von der Leyen and Michel"

foggy fern
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Yeah that is pretty dumb 😄

near glen
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Virtual

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V I R T U A L

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Pic of author

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No further questions

faint radish
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I think you have the article backwards mini

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I think the point is that Biden wore a mask to a virtual conference

near glen
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Well, I can't read the article

faint radish
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not saying others should wear masks

near glen
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But it's written in a way to from shade at all the others but biden?

foggy fern
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It does seem to be talking about why he would bother rather than attacking the others

faint radish
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yeah, I agree with Amaranth. its not criticizing the other leaders for not wearing masks, but pointing out that biden is

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Won’t win cause she’s a conservative tho

pure jetty
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That being said I don't think she's dumb

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But for someone who I think has an econ degree? She has dogshit understanding of American economy

foggy fern
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Double major, international relations and economics

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Also an intern for Ted Kennedy

pure jetty
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Prime example of why a degree don't mean shit really

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Doesn't Wolf have a degree too?

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And that guy is a j OMEGALUL ke

foggy fern
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Wolv?

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Smartest guy I know

pure jetty
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richard wolff

foggy fern
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Just because you disagree with his economic theories doesn't mean he is dumb

pure jetty
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he's not respected in the real world

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I sat through a 90minute debate were he was unable to give a single definition of socialism that didn't involve comparing it to something else

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mf really said "you define a cat by saying at first it's not a dog"

foggy fern
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He writes a lot of books but I'm not seeing any published papers from him

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But he must have had something otherwise how could he be a professor?

pure jetty
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teaches undergrad occasionally

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Not like a full fledged guy

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The man is still a probably an ok econ professor

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I'm sure he's able to split his opinion from reality

foggy fern
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Yeah, he is mostly retired

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That's why he isn't a full fledged teacher 😛

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Professor Emeritus, means retired

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Anyway, I don't know enough about economics or this guy to say a lot about him

pure jetty
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Pretty bad as far as socialism is concerned

foggy fern
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I don't think how someone does in a debate says a lot about them either

pure jetty
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chomsky is much better at talking about socialism

foggy fern
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A lot of that is just how well you prep and how well you are at improv

pure jetty
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And Wolff debates all the time

foggy fern
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Well, that's dumb then, you'd think he would get better at it or stop 😛

pure jetty
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And not being able to give a proper definition for something you claim to be your lifes work is pretty bad

mystic ermine
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me earlier:
sees Caitlyn Jenner trending on twitter
oh god, what now...

faint radish
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🙂

pure jetty
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Lol I love how California governor has become the official shit post of governors

mystic ermine
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can I suggest trying to find a way to detach it from the rest of the US and just kick it out to sea?

glossy sandal
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They need Arnold back

faint radish
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Can apparently just mow down rioters whenever you want in Oklahoma... thinksmart

pure jetty
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Sadge sensationalism

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All it would take is for them to read the literal bill with more than 2 brain cells

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Sadge

glossy sandal
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People cant read jroy

faint radish
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I’m sure they mention that in the article, but headlines are a different story

foggy fern
pure jetty
shut vine
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Yeah which is how you know they're just trying to cause outrage. Not that has changed much at all.

pure jetty
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? If the majority votes for em who cares

eager hawk
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dude, for like two months after january 6th, every time i checked in to see what CNN was covering, it was the insurrection like 80% of the time. they really just want you to have abhorrence towards anyone who supports trump, and fails to admit there being some trump supporters who are like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL_hnA2u-SA

YouTube
VICE News
We Spoke to a Lone Trump Supporter at Biden's Inauguration

With heightened security and pandemic precautions, the streets of Washington, DC were mostly empty on the day of Joe Biden’s inauguration. Despite vowing to once again storm the Capitol, Trump supporters were nowhere to be seen. We spoke to one man in a MAGA hat who traveled from New York for a rally that never happened.

Subscribe to VICE News...

▶ Play video
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but then the politicians are a different story

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hawley and mtg need to gtfo

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and i hope pelosi gets voted out for 2022

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with a progressive politician

shut vine
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I meant the news outlet

eager hawk
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yeah news outlets relying on emotion and outrage to garner clicks and ad revenue, and many people falling for it because our school curriculum sucks and never really went over differentiating sensationalized and misleading news sources from factual ones, smh.

shut vine
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As I regularly said about Trump, there was plenty to be critical of him for, but news routinely misrepresented or outright lied about him.

foggy fern
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To skip right ahead to the end of this discussion: Just because there are nice things you can think of to say about Hitler doesn't mean you have to bring them up every time someone talks about him

shut vine
near glen
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I heard he has choosen a nice birthday

shut vine
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Who has chosen a nice birthday?

near glen
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Hitler 😄

broken raven
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you can choose your birthday?

eager hawk
shut vine
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i.e. prior to when I asked the question.

eager hawk
shut vine
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If so I'd be curious what said analogy is. Generally it's pretty unwise to compare anything to the Holocaust or its mastermind.

tough cedar
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Or to put it in other words.... just because you can think of something nice that a sucky person has done, does not mean you need to mention it whenever they're brought up, because they're still a sucky person

pure jetty
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She's an amazing speaker, what's your dislike of her?

tough cedar
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Yuukster wants a progressive in her place iirc

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I think it's been mentioned that pelosi pretends to be progressive too when she really isnt

pure jetty
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She doesn't

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She's very much a liberal

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Which is good considering that's most of house

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Why should the speaker be a minority of the country

mystic ermine
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open biden

pure jetty
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Wat

mystic ermine
pure jetty
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lol cringe

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but that doesn't change her political effectiveness

mystic ermine
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I mean, she seems mentally questionable and in general, so far out of touch with the rest of the public

pure jetty
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she's mentally fine, poor public speaker if anything

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the words she said around the Floyd thing was weird too

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I understood what she was saying but boy she could have worded it better

mystic ermine
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I mean, that's why I say mentally questionable

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It's like she was cheering that somebodies death accelerated her cause

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and I'm pretty sure that that's not the only incident like that with her

pure jetty
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She is still extremely effective

foggy fern
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Either she leans hard on an insanely effective staff (which she does have, you have to if you want to be an effective Speaker) or she still has it where it counts: she keeps her party in line, keeps the House moving, and raises lots of money for elections

pure jetty
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Right

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A lot of the negative pelosi rhetoric actually comes from republicans

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Because of how effective she is

foggy fern
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Yep, same thing as the Clintons

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Don't like either one of them but they were really effective politicians before Republicans finally managed to turn people against them

eager hawk
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Another would be Pelosi's purchase of Microsoft stock before the military contract deal with them

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I guess I'm fine if another neoliberal takes her place as speaker, I just no longer approve her being the speaker with the many controversies she's had

glossy sandal
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Oh man especially the one where she told us to wear masks in social settings then didnt wear one when she got a haircut

foggy fern
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Wearing a mask during a haircut just seems weird, I've avoided haircuts entirely instead

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Just been hacking it off myself

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Probably 1/2 to 2/3 of the time I was doing that anyway but still

restive seal
mystic ermine
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bearing in mind that this was when all of the hair dressers was supposed to be closed

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The shop owner seems to have baited it on instead of disallowing it straight up

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sounds like she shoulda said no but said "yes" in hopes of catching her out and sending it to the news

foggy fern
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Yeah, Pelosi claims the shop owner said it was okay to do it by appointment or something

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Which is what they've mostly done here, actually

mystic ermine
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different states and areas have different rules which is all confusing as shit

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But, you'd hope that the politicians are capable of practicing what they're preaching towards everyone

foggy fern
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I mean, nice places have always been by appointment but now they don't let you in the building until your appointment and have a window between appointments

mystic ermine
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then again, I don't think we've gone a month or two without some rando politician violating the rules, generally politicians I think most people forgot existed though

pure jetty
pure jetty
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Otherwise it would be "insider trading" and is securities fraud

foggy fern
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It was her husband doing the stock trades

broken raven
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What we discussing today bois

pure jetty
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Husband is probably fine in that case

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Since she's still in office I'll take that it wasn't a big deal

foggy fern
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He was exercising options for half the current price of the stock so I think it was something he had in the works for a while?

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On a somewhat related note, I can't believe Roblox is worth more than Minecraft

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Roblox is a public company with a market cap of like $50 billion

glossy sandal
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Never underestimate how much parents will spend to shut their kids up

foggy fern
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But yeah, her husband is a venture capitalist and investor, he buys and sells stock and real estate all the time

eager hawk
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id say insider trading is a considerable issue no matter the political party

pure jetty
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What probably happens is people don't understand layers of separation or they just settle with the SEC in private

mystic ermine
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You mean, like, actually, or in a sense of like, the FBI?

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casual tragedy happens
how could we have stopped them
public finds out that they where already on security watch lists

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last I knew that was somewhat of a, like, somewhat common thing in the scheme of things

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and a few of the big attacks hare and turned out that the peeps where like, already under watch

eager hawk
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you can't deny that these large holdings can influence any of her policy decisions

pure jetty
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Can you give me examples because I will deny outside of any proper example

pure jetty
eager hawk
pure jetty
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I mean that article pretty much wants them to not have any stock market investment as they list literally every sector of the American financial market

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Which sure you could propose that

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But most of these people have 3rd party financial advisors managing their portfolios

near glen
eager hawk
# pure jetty But most of these people have 3rd party financial advisors managing their portfo...

so your argument here, is that even though they have financial advisors hand-picking and curating their stock positions, that they would always pursue things that are in the interest of their constituents over losing hundreds of thousands of money with policies that can affect their financial assets?

i mean if we were to put an analogy with doctors, between those who get paid correlated to the tests/treatments they give to their patients and those who get paid for treating their patients at a flat rate no matter the costs of treatment, academic studies see a direct correlation in the average treatment costs being higher for doctors that also get paid correlated on a per-treatment basis, even when doctors go on the oath that financial interests won't influence their treatment options for their patients. there's really no way to remove conflicts of interests without banning politicans' abilities to trade individual stocks

foggy fern
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It's tricky, with a President you can just say they'll only have the job 4 or 8 years so putting their investments in a blind trust isn't too bad

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Members of Congress could potentially be there 40 years though and would you want someone else to manage all your assets for 40 years with you having zero input or even knowledge of how it's being managed?

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And then you have their families too, do you want them to all do it too?

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Jill Biden is the first First Lady to not treat her "position" as her job and have an actual job still but for members of Congress that's normal, some of them even still have "normal" jobs

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There are also hundreds of them though so any potential conflict one of them has gets washed out because they can't decide something on their own

near glen
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Ppl in office shouldn't have any stakes in anything tbh

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They get paid good enough that they should be able to only focus on the mandate for a term

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Because you know, that's their job now

mystic ermine
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a job is a job, they should be allowed to have stakes in stuff, like anybody else, but, there needs to be some thing to ensure that theres no conflicting interests involved

near glen
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It's not a normal job tho

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You serve your country

dusky raft
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some government positions used to not be paid originally

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the idea was that when the official was done working, they would go back to civilian live after a few terms

foggy fern
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Really just meant only rich people could do it which was kind of the point

tough cedar
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Tru

dusky raft
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and still kind of is today considering what people earn while in the house/senate...

pure jetty
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If they start doing things against the will of the people then they will just lose their vote

dusky raft
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sometimes I think representatives for government should earn the median wage of their state...

pure jetty
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Probably a bad idea

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For a variety of reasons

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And would probably only hurt poorer congressmen

foggy fern
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Living in DC is expensive

pure jetty
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Yeah I didn't realize how many homeless people were there

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I visited there this week and there are tons of homeless there

eager hawk
#

i mean i'm fine with politicians investing in ETFs or mutual funds. what's an issue is investing in individual stocks, which is what exactly a lot of politicians do.

pure jetty
#

Can you please show me various examples of elected officials doing something against the ideals of their constituents and still getting reelected?

foggy fern
#

Well, all the Republicans voted against the last relief bill, let's see how many get reelected 😛

pure jetty
#

Exactly

foggy fern
#

(most of them will)

pure jetty
#

I think generally Republicans don't like hand outs

#

so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

foggy fern
#

I've posted polls and such in here before about support for various "liberal" issues and how they don't line up with the parties

#

People hurt themselves economically to score points in the culture war

#

Although even on those cultural issues the party is not always in alignment with the people

mystic ermine
#

People often just vote for D or R

#

Makes you question how many people are actually aware of the peoples they're electing policies

pure jetty
#

I think for the most part its more than you think

#

People don't generally get reelected when they enact policy the public doesn't agree with

#

Otherwise they'd be primaried out of existence

foggy fern
#

Primaries are worse than social media 😛

#

Like, you only get the loudest most extreme people out of primaries

#

That's why I like the jungle primary system, if one side goes too extreme they'll either be shunned and you'll have two of the other party on the ballot or if they're still popular you'll get one crazy and one more moderate from that party on the ballot

#

Either way you can filter out the extreme in the actual election

shut vine
#

I'm not sure I follow, most people with extreme views don't get elected, there are exceptions obviously.

#

Do you mean that they just are the ones we hear about most?

foggy fern
#

It also does a better job of reflecting what the voters want although since it's a primary that's often what the most extreme voters want

#

Sure, sometimes a primary puts up the extreme choice and it gets rejected for the other party in the general

#

But I don't think that's more likely than the extreme candidate getting elected, just depends on how extreme and on what

#

We have almost had a white supremacist caucus in congress, with multiple members

#

It'll probably happen anyway if they think they can do it without being noticed

pure jetty
#

Still don't know how that fuckin Greene lady got elected

shut vine
#

Yeah I'm not sure either.

foggy fern
#

She has an R next to her name and even worse her opponent ended up going through a messy divorce and moving in with his parents in Iowa during the election

shut vine
#

But.. if a candidate has extreme views and it is known they have extreme views by the majority they just wont vote for those people. Extreme views are literally views the majority does not have.

foggy fern
#

People are more forgiving of fault from "their side" though, we overlook or explain away the extremes

#

There is only so far that can go but you still end up with some pretty extreme people being elected just because of their party

shut vine
#

Yeah generally that permissiveness due to tribalism will allow for a few distasteful things about a person, or individual views they don't agree with.

#

A singular extreme view though doesn't really make a person extreme I don't think.

#

Though that probably depends on how extreme as you said.

#

Tribalism is a fairly big issue regardless I guess.

foggy fern
#

We only got rid of Steve King because he got so far out there the rest of the party shunned him

#

He'd probably still get elected here otherwise but instead he got primaried by someone who ran on the idea that King was good but he couldn't help Trump anymore

#

I dunno, maybe I'm surrounded by a bunch of far-right (white supremacist?) assholes, I don't spend a lot of time in the community 😛

foggy fern
#

TIL this exists

51SXzA6QzeL.png
pure jetty
#

Lol

shell shuttle
tough cedar
#

🤔

faint radish
#

Elon is hosting SNL on May 8...

#

And cue all the people trying to get SNL to cancel him

#

You can expect the usual complaints about him.

Inherited wealth from his dads apartheid emerald mines in South Africa, his cars kill people, his companies take money from taxpayers, doesn’t like unions, COVID denier

narrow ore
#

spacex tho is cool. obviously the engineers do all the work, but he got them together initially and pushed them to do great things
tesla: neat cars but way too much hype. stock manipulation, union busting, and overpromising on "self driving" not cool
and obviously his work ethic is... unhealthy to say the least

dusky raft
#

what businessman does like unions?

tough cedar
#

The ones that sell stuff to unions

#

lol

dusky raft
#

I wouldnt say unions are inherently bad, but I dont like how some of them operate

narrow ore
#

yeah for sure, unions can be corrupt to
but we can definitely judge corporations by how far they go to subvert unions

faint radish
#

Companies do take visionaries. Apple had Steve Jobs for a good bit. Clearly he’s not doing all the work, but you need that person to have the vision for a company. I think he does that very well.

narrow ore
#

sometimes companies go too far in controlling their workers (wasting ppls time with mandatory anti-union info sessions, promoting managers for being company yes-men instead of competence, making financial targets the most important thing) and that can have a chilling effect on the ability of workers to raise their concerns or suggest changes

#

like i think Boeing is a good example of this

dusky raft
#

Boeing also sucks in money from the government and produces little

narrow ore
#

true, but they also have a huge commercial aircraft division

dusky raft
#

you would think that cash surplus would benefit the worker or make projects go faster due to increased funds?

narrow ore
#

? not sure what you mean... Boeing lost a lot of orders this year because of covid

dusky raft
#

before covid

#

actually, was it boeing that accepts military contracts?

narrow ore
#

boeing also does military contracts

#

(they also have a space division, and spacex is eating their lunch rn)

dusky raft
#

because spacex actually has incentive to produce new types of rockets

#

boeing would have gave nasa some last generation rocket and get more than what spacex is asking

narrow ore
#

yep. although there is no commercial reason for spacex to work on starship

#

just elon being crazy as usual

dusky raft
#

He needs to drive his ego somehow

narrow ore
#

yeah

#

but there are also thousands of aerospace engineers who live for that stuff, so they are also driving starship development

mystic ermine
#

boeing are paid to do a job

#

no matter how long it takes to do that job, they get paid

#

if it takes longer and goes over budget, they get paid

dusky raft
#

I do think there should be a limit to when the US government has said enough and stop funding projects that arent going anywhere.

mystic ermine
#

reusable boosters, afaik, is only a private sector thing

dusky raft
#

but knowing government, it would take 20 years before politicians realize to stop funding some project because it hasnt gone anywhere

narrow ore
#

i will say the opposite is true for Boeing's commercial jetliner division
they get paid more if they can build them faster

dusky raft
#

oh yeah, because its private sales

mystic ermine
#

yea, their jets are an entirely different matter to rockets, however

#

spacex has the pros of being able to build cheap and not spending 20 years on R&D before shooting it off into space

#

it's why SpaceX is able to send crew up to the ISS

#

Sure, they've had a good few dozen booms over the years, but, remember when like 5 years ago we used to wait for a RUD?

#

Now it's like, I don't really remmeber the last RUD we saw

narrow ore
#

well technically the launch abort test capsule RUD when they tested the abort rockets again after it landed. that was in 2019 and forced a redesign

mystic ermine
#

think that there was a booster a few weeks ago or something they wanted to recover but failed to do so for some reason, but, otherwise, they had the ability to cycle their stuff over the years and the failure rate is depression for those of us who love RUDs, but, great for them

#

Well, yea, but they had a RUD with early tech, went back to the drawing board

#

Like, if this was boeing etc it would all still be computer simulations and boffins scratching their heads

narrow ore
#

i mean, they were planning on launching astronauts in that design

#

but that's why testing is good

mystic ermine
#

Well, yea, but, SpaceX is in a muuuch better position as they actually can/do test

narrow ore
#

i mean, nothing is stopping Boeing and other space companies from testing more

#

they just... don't

mystic ermine
#

cost

narrow ore
#

yeah i guess

#

but it also costs a lot to do decades of R&D, and put a ton of effort into making sure everything goes right the first time

#

they need a shorter development-testing cycle i think

mystic ermine
#

but, that's the problem, they have 0 incentive to do that, they have 0 incentives to try to bring the cost of the final product down, etc, etc

narrow ore
#

yep

faint radish
#

NASA isn't doing cost-plus conracts anymore

#

like boeings commercial crew contract (same one SpaceX also won) is objective based

#

they dont get more money from NASA if they need it, they fund out of pocket

#

Boeing got almost twice as much for commercial crew as spacex did, and spacex still got there first, but I think NASA finally convinced congress to stop doing cost-plus contracts

#

Congress wants NASA money spent in as many states as possible, cause reps like giving their districts federal money for jobs, etc.

mystic ermine
#

Ah, yea, forgot about that, maybe boeing will step their game up

#

And, well, NASA wants to spend in as many states as possible as that's how they aim to keep their cash which they keep cutting

faint radish
#

boeing will get there eventually. having dis-similar redundancy is a very good thing

mystic ermine
#

shamefully, for a mission like "lets get to the moon", having to spread your shit across states is a massive money hole

eager hawk
#

Here's a good example I think

Sure, members of Congress are profiting from their positions — with nearly one in eight stock trades by congresspersons intersecting with legislation — but does that necessarily mean they are profiting at the expense of their constituents and society?

We think the answer is a clear yes. For example, one industry that has a direct impact on Americans — and gives a lot of money to elected officials — is big pharma. Prices for prescription drugs have skyrocketed, and researchers argue that this partially stems from the actions of lawmakers. The Senate recently voted on proposed legislation that would allow the importing of prescription medication from Canada, to trim costs. Although it would have benefited Americans struggling to pay for medication, the legislation didn’t pass — and according to an analysis from the Center for Responsive Politics, those who voted no received significantly more in contributions from big pharma than those who voted yes. This was true on both sides of the aisle.

https://hbr.org/2017/02/the-growing-conflict-of-interest-problem-in-the-u-s-congress

Harvard Business Review
The Growing Conflict-of-Interest Problem in the U.S. Congress

It’s a bipartisan issue.

eager hawk
dusky raft
#

money + low info voters who vote among party lines = reelection unless some stupidly big scandal goes off.

#

kinda how some government officials who are so disliked somehow manage to get themselves reelected for 20 someodd years or more

eager hawk
dusky raft
#

@eager hawk citizens united v. FEC?

#

interesting how that ruling allows businesses to pile money into politicians campaigns considering how it was first about some TV advertisement and other related media

eager hawk
dusky raft
#

It appears the money related bullshit was in further court rulings that used citizens v. FEC as the basis.

#

just doing some reading up on it, the original background didnt involve anything about funding and whatnot

#

unless im missing something here,

shut vine
#

The specifics were surrounding the first amendment and private corps being able to spend their money to advocate a position about a person running for federal election mostly.

faint radish
#

https://babylonbee.com/news/in-despair-cnn-hires-a-guy-to-rant-about-what-trump-would-have-tweeted-if-he-hadnt-gotten-kicked-off-of-twitter

The Babylon Bee
CNN Introduces Segment Where They Rant About What Trump Would Have ...

NEW YORK, NY - CNN's Brian Stelter has introduced a brand new segment of his show where he will discuss all the horrible things Trump would have tweeted if he hadn't been kicked off of Twitter.'As Americans, it's important for us to remember just how bad, how mean, how divorced from the facts, how, how, how much of a stinky poopoo head&nbs ...

#

How very CNN of them...

pure jetty
mystic ermine
#

It's something many people complain about and say should be fixed for those who don't and yet don't really care to understand the why or actually take steps to help bar just saying the government should pay for it

eager hawk
# pure jetty I'm not convinced this is something alot of people care about, most people have ...

We have a lot of issues with people not being able to afford healthcare/selling their home/going bankrupt paying for medication no? And with the stupid increase in drug prices, like insulin at like $150 per month and Epipens like 700% more expensive than a decade ago or smt. If we got big pharma out from donating to politicians I only see politicians putting pressure towards doing what's best for their constituents and winning popularity points for it instead of stuffing their wallets

pure jetty
#

It would make sense most people don't care

#

It's like support for M4A, most people support it initially but when they're told they'll lose their private insurance the support for it drops significantly

eager hawk
#

There's plenty of ways to reduce healthcare costs without needing to switch to a government run healthcare system

pure jetty
#

I know I'm not in favor of M4A either

#

I was giving an example of how the public generally doesn't care about healthcare policy because they already have healthcare

eager hawk
#

Man UK you guys are so cute at 4.6k per year per capita for healthcare

eager hawk
pure jetty
#

I wasn't arguing about healthcare

#

You were taking about effects of lobbying

#

You used healthcare as an example

#

I said I don't think the public generally cares about healthcare since most are already covered

eager hawk
#

Yes the conversation started from talking about if politicians should be able to trade individual stocks

eager hawk
# pure jetty I said I don't think the public generally cares about healthcare since most are ...

We're still paying quite a hefty amount already, and I think the public would care a lot if the government worked towards reducing those costs. Have the government put more pressure and accountability to executives of big pharma for stuffing money into their pockets or something. Of which this lobbying pressure is one of the many examples why many legislation doesn't get brought up in congress even though their constituents would probably be more happy than upset for...having reduced costs of living as they should be.

foggy fern
pure jetty
#

Private pharma is probably better than private hospitals

foggy fern
#

R&D? You mean that stuff done mostly by government universities and/or with government grants?

pure jetty
#

I think a massive improvement to the US healthcare system would be regulating hospital costs

eager hawk
#

Where do epipen and insulin price increases come from?

pure jetty
#

There is a MASSIVE difference between doing research into drugs than ACTUALLY making them

#

Let alone actually bringing them to market

pure jetty
#

There has been massive improvements to the types of insulin to better regulate blood sugar levels

foggy fern
#

Figuring out how to make drugs faster or cheaper isn't really the kind of research that should be considered a cost sink though

#

Especially since they take those improvements and then raise the price instead of lowering it 😛

eager hawk
#

In the past decade, the cost of insulin has tripled in the United States. According to research from the Yale School of Medicine, the out-of-pocket cost for patients has doubled—a situation that is becoming dire. One in 4 patients say that they ration their insulin because they can't afford it, which has led to the loss of life in some cases.

pure jetty
#

So are you saying that there has been no R&D into this stuff?

#

And no improvements in insulin in the past decade?

pure jetty
foggy fern
#

What improvements have been made to insulin?

#

You keep bringing that one up, I want sources 😛

#

The only things I've seen are improvements to those things that make you cyborg that do automated testing (and some even automated injection)

#

The drug itself has become more expensive though so what improvements have been made to the drug itself?

#

Does it survive in more extreme conditions? Does it have a longer shelf life? Is it more potent?

pure jetty
foggy fern
#

Not at all

pure jetty
#

We've gone from literally pig insulin to something that regulates blood sugar levels in real time

foggy fern
#

No, you're talking about machines again

pure jetty
#

Instead of spiking up like it used to, the new insulins maintain smooth levels to better emulate the normal drop offs

foggy fern
#

If it's such a vast obvious difference you should have no problem finding sources

#

Press releases, medical journals, something

pure jetty
#

I'm not home but when I am I'll forward them

foggy fern
#

My sister sure would love to get some insulin that worked that way

#

I think I found what you're talking about, improvements from the 90s

#

That's 30 years ago, you know?

#

And those were cheaper when they were first released than they are today, and not just due to inflation

#

It should cost $35 today if inflation was the only factor, instead it's $300

#

So yeah, I still need you to show me what major improvements have been made in the last decade

#

Hell you're actually completely backwards even

#

The newer insulins are designed to rapidly work and rapidly drop off, it's the older animal one that is a smooth curve

pure jetty
#

Again I don't have my sources an shit on me now but let's say what you said is correct for the sake of argument

#

So yeah, I still need you to show me what major improvements have been made in the last decade

You will not necessarily see changes on the market, which is why r&d is so expensive. A lot of canadite drugs are pushed and fail in trials. Which is a absolute shit ton of money all down the drain

The newer insulins are designed to rapidly work and rapidly drop off, it's the older animal one that is a smooth curve

So you're telling me insulin has...changed in recent times and is not the same as it's been?

foggy fern
#

30 years ago, yeah

#

And it got more expensive since then

#

Ok, 25 years ago

pure jetty
#

I don't know how to convey that there's been plenty of development over the past decade because you seem solely focused on just drugs brought to market which still hasn't just stagnated

I found this which I think I have on my doc at home which illustrates some of the developments https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/41/5/733/5836295

#

Another question I'd like to ask you, if these companies are just hiking the price of drugs, can you tell me their ticker on the stock market so I can dump all my money into them?

#

Since I imagine these companies must be profiting year over year over year since they're able to hike their prices so high and just sit on that money!

foggy fern
#

They aren't hype stocks so they don't get the ridiculous P/E ratios that would make them worth day trading on

#

And what does some failed drug trial have to do with the price of insulin?

#

If they're failing so hard at new drugs they have to make insulin cost 10x what it should (or 100x what it should, depending on who you ask) maybe they should stop doing that

#

I don't care about other drugs, failed or not

#

Also drug stocks tend to pay out dividends instead of driving their stock price to the moon

pure jetty
foggy fern
#

Right, stop that

pure jetty
#

let's stop the development of new drug!

#

problem solved!

#

world saved!

foggy fern
#

They're mostly making junk anyway

pure jetty
#

ah yes of course

foggy fern
#

And apparently a lot of it is failing since they're having to drive up the prices 10-100x what they should be to cover their failures

#

How much of what they make is actual new drugs or better versions and how much is just some tweak to extend patent coverage?

#

Regardless, it's not worth what they're telling us it costs them

pure jetty
#

right...

foggy fern
#

You think it's just fine that they charge 10x more now than they did when a drug came out (adjusted for inflation) to fund other projects?

pure jetty
#

Yeah probably

foggy fern
#

You're crazy

pure jetty
#

But I'm also in favor of covering everyone who can't afford that

foggy fern
#

Ah so make the government pay out the ass to them instead

#

At that point we may as well nationalize them

pure jetty
#

Other governments already do this?

#

Or they negotiate with drug companies to lower prices

foggy fern
#

No, other governments use their immense bargaining power to ensure they don't get charged those stupid prices

pure jetty
#

right

foggy fern
#

But you said those prices are okay

#

So you'd be okay with the government paying that much for everyone too, no?

mystic ermine
#

the "cute" aspect of the UK system is really not all that cute

#

the system is underfunded and overstretched

#

You can break your arm and be waiting around for hours in the waiting room without being seen

foggy fern
#

Welcome to every urban hospital in the world

#

If the bone isn't visible and you haven't passed out you're probably fine, just don't move

pure jetty
#

I can't engage in this really, some lefties are so far gone on understanding the healthcare system in the united states to the point where it diverts time that should be spent arguing on actual worse problems in the US healthcare system

foggy fern
#

I see, so you got argued in to a corner that would result in tax dollars going to this craziness and now you want out

mystic ermine
#

The thing is that our hospitals are generally designe to deal with the capacity, they just don't have the staffing, and in cases where there are blatent shortages there's no inclination to build another hospital until the situation gets so bad, and building any new hospital takes like 10 years

pure jetty
#

no, those numbers are likely just there as base prices

#

I doubt insurance companies even pay that much

mystic ermine
#

But, I mean, the fact that a drug which is essential to life is at the point where you need some huge coglomerate company to get it for you is just crazy

foggy fern
#

I doubt they're getting it for $30

#

And other countries get it for $3

pure jetty
#

And insurance companies prob get to say "look at this big number we saved for you"

foggy fern
#

I understand that bullshit, that bullshit is why half our spending goes to administration

#

That still doesn't explain away $300 a vial

#

Even if your insurance company is getting it for $100 a vial (and I doubt they're getting it that "cheap") it's too much

#

I'll have to ask her but I think I remember my sister having to pay $200/month out of pocket even with her insurance

mystic ermine
#

Companies need to have means to gain a profit, it's how they keep stuff running, but, excessive profits when it comes to peoples lives, eeerrr...

foggy fern
#

The core medical research, the kind of stuff that leads to insulin and mRNA therapies, happens at universities anyway

#

Then these days with some biotech startup afterward to try to prove it in the market

pure jetty
#

I think you're vastly underestimating the cost of bringing drugs to market and how many of those fail in the process.

#

Only about 20% of drugs actually exit trials and make it to market

#

Where as the average cost of doing so is billion(s) of dollars

#

So if a drug fails in trials that's billions of dollars down the drain

#

And what do you tell people with rare diseases?

#

You shouldn't be allowed to subsidize the cost of those medications

tough cedar
#

Guess the gov should fund the trials since the free market does not seem like it is able to effectively produce the required product

pure jetty
#

??????????

#

The fuck are you talking about

tough cedar
#

You said most trials fail?

foggy fern
tough cedar
#

And that billions of dollars a year is just gone

mystic ermine
#

the companies need to make a profit so that they can cover the cost of getting drugs to the market which the gov doesn't

pure jetty
#

Most trials fail because the drug isn't suitable

mystic ermine
#

but, I mean, part of it that's the costs are eaten elsewhere

pure jetty
foggy fern
#

$985m includes the cost of failed trials

#

Basically take R&D spending and divide it by the number of approved drugs and you get that number

tough cedar
#

How much does big pharmaceutical companies make?

#

I guess big ones that make insulin

mystic ermine
#

Same issue in general with the health industry, excessive costs which are bargened down drastically to the point just so that insurance companies can charge you for and act like they're doing you a massive favour, and so drug companies can gain a massive profit of the backs of people who need these things to live

foggy fern
#

In 2019 Pfizer had revenues of $51.8 billion and profits of $16.2 billion

#

Back to the numbers, $300/vial and if you have type 1 diabetes you need 3 of them a month, if my sister is paying $200/month out of pocket the cheapest they could be is $67/vial if insurance is just getting her a discount but not paying for any of it

#

That's still more than twice what they should cost adjusted for inflation from when they were first introduced (and you'd expect them to get cheaper once they aren't the hot new thing and companies get better at making them)

#

So they cost somewhere between 2.2-10x what they should depending on what kind of discount you can get (and gain, 100x more if you compare to other countries)

#

Maybe she is rounding or including other costs in that or maybe I'm just misremembering and she said $100 or $300, I'll have to remember to ask

faint radish
near glen
#

Wind turbines destroy the look of our neighborhood! Look!

foggy fern
#

lol, token windmill

near glen
#

That's germanys largest surface mine and the deepest point of my state, 300m below ground or smth

#

It shows you everything that is wrong with humanity really

mystic ermine
#

I mean, I'm not a NIMBY'der

near glen
#

As a kid I loved the baggers

mystic ermine
#

it's the people who are which are the general issue

near glen
#

They are like the biggest machines you will ever see

#

It shows how amazing things mankind can do

#

But then you see what we actually do with that knowledge

#

I think one of those baggers actually holds the world record for biggest and most heavy land vehicle or smth dum like that

#

Yeah

#

100m high, 14.000 tons heavy

#

226m long

#

Destroys 240000m3 of land

#

Per day

mystic ermine
#

gotta get those dinosaur squeezings

#

(I mean, I found out other week that dinosaurs are like, too recent to be turned into like, fossil fuels, but, still, I stand by the term because bite me)

near glen
#

It's mostly just trees

#

Oh yeah, all that wasteland was some ancient forest before we ruined it

meager ice
#

Trees became coal

#

I believe oil was prob formed by algae

mystic ermine
#

DINOSAUR. SQUEEZINGS. FITE ME.

#

But, yea, am more thinking the oily stuff

mystic ermine
near glen
#

Wtf

#

What was the context for that?

mystic ermine
#

prior to the 2nd lockdown, he didn't wanna do it and basically said he'd rather let the bodies pile high than lockdown again

near glen
#

Oh so it's as bad as it sounds, lol

near glen
#

Yeah that toyed with the idea for ages now

faint radish
#

No evidence what Chauvin did was in any way motivated by race.

#

I’m gonna guess if you ask people why Chauvin killed George Floyd, like well over half are gonna say “because he was black”

foggy fern
#

AG said it was because he was black too

faint radish
#

yeah, that's kinda my point. saying its because he was black with 0 evidence to back that up, surely doesnt help the situation

#

the AG in that interview tries to thread some needle that it was caused by racism, but not caused by racism, but caused by racism,

foggy fern
#

Systemic racism means the system failed Chauvin too either by not filtering him out at recruitment for his own racism or by training him to act in a way that is harsher to black men even if he isn't usually racist

faint radish
#

but there isn't evidence here that he treated chauvin any worse than another man. there's evidence he is a horrible cop and used wayyyy too much force

#

if it had been a white man, under the exact same conditions, it's unknown what the outcome would have been

foggy fern
#

No, we don't know with these two in particular if it would have been different which is why that wasn't one of the charges

#

Systemic racism is something you can usually only point out via statistics

#

boo, no embed

eager hawk
#

Just got my second moderna shot btw :)

pure jetty
#

You're entire message history is weak bait my dude

eager hawk
faint radish
#

If there is a disproportionate figure, the sample size is not high enough I don’t think to make any assumptions

#

What if he was put on patrol is more black neighborhoods or something? That’s ignoring the fact that crime is not proportional to race demographics

#

That isn’t to say why that is or if it should be that way, just that it currently is.

eager hawk
mystic ermine
#

apparently they both knew each other

faint radish
#

you can't really do anything about small sample size tho

#

and I'm iffy on the whole "hate" crime thing anyways

#

its a crime, punishing someone more because of what's in their head just seems wrong

dusky raft
#

cant say for sure, I heard rumors that the jury was intimidated for go for all three charges

#

it may be appealed and the sentence may be less

mystic ermine
#

One of the jurys old houses got painted up

#

one of the papers also apparently went crazy ex GF stalker on all of them tryna work out who they where

faint radish
#

that is not cool

eager hawk
pure jetty
#

You can't appeal a sentence

#

You appeal a crime

faint radish
#

there isnt even a sentence yet

pure jetty
#

And they won't will appeal

faint radish
#

the sentence could be less as a result of the appeal tho I think is what he meant

pure jetty
#

It won't

#

The murder charge is the largest on there and that's set in stone

faint radish
#

well sure, but I'm talking generically here. a sentence can be reduced because the largest crime conviction was overturned on some random case

faint radish
#

if there was "racial evidence" for chauvin and floyd, then it could be brought in as evidence of a pattern I think. Judges are really careful to ensure the jury is only trying the crime at hand

#

not anything in the past

dusky raft
#

wait

#

what were his charges, 2nd/3rd degree murder along with 2nd degree manslaughter?

faint radish
#

correct

dusky raft
#

yeah, 2nd degree could be appealed, because that is with intent to murder

faint radish
#

2nd degree is the felony murder rule in minnesota

#

that someone died while you were committing another felony

#

like, you could be charged with 2nd degere murder in MN if someone died as a result of a car chase away from a robbery

#

no intent to kill there

dusky raft
#

ah, I was looking at federal

eager hawk
faint radish
#

there are some crazy felony murder charges out there. Like you let your friend use your car. They rob a bank with it and someone dies as a result. You, as the person who lent the car, can be charged with felony murder

#

even if you didnt know about it

faint radish
#

If 89 more people had been counted in NY, they wouldn’t have lost a congressional seat.

eyes nursing home deaths

mystic ermine
#

ouch

#

Texas to gain 2

faint radish
#

California lost one for the first time ever

mystic ermine
faint radish
#

Meanwhile Montana doubled it’s rep count

#

(From 1 to 2)

mystic ermine
#

Yea, texas +2, Montana, oregon, Colorado, NC and Florida +1

tough cedar
#

gotta add another 500 seats so its actually proportional lol

faint radish
#

California does not have 500 times the population of any state

#

California has like 30x the population of Montana, and has close to 30x the number of reps

tough cedar
#

? wot no i just mean the house of reps should have an additional 500+ seats to allocate to states so that their representation is proportional between states

faint radish
#

The number of reps has nothing to do with it being proportional. It’s all about how many each state gets

#

You can be more accurate with higher numbers, but why not go to 100,000 to make it more accurate

tough cedar
#

i mean it'd be better to go off the lowest populated state and go with that number

#

that'd decrease the variance from hundreds of thousands depending on the state, to something way less

faint radish
#

I’m talking about the number of reps. Why not have 100k reps? So we can give each state the right amount and get a close to proportional as we can

#

Cali has ~10% of the pop, give them 10% of the reps

#

With more reps, you can make it more accurate

tough cedar
#

why are you taking the point i'm trying to make to such an extreme?

#

435 isn't enough, 100k is too many

#

i'm sure there is a nice middleground we can achieve to reduce the imbalance

foggy fern
#

Say Montana has 1 rep and everyone else gets (Montana population/their population) reps, round however you like

#

That'd be more or less fair without blowing out the size

faint radish
#

Nah, you can’t go from a 1 rep state

#

Cause every state should have 1 regardless of pop

foggy fern
#

Montana has the lowest population, no?

faint radish
#

No

tough cedar
#

montana is lucky they get two now, they had 1 before, they had the same representation as wyoming, which has way less people

#

wyoming has 500k ish

faint radish
#

Yes. 586k for Wyoming

foggy fern
#

Wyoming is smallest, use them then

faint radish
#

You can’t use that tho, you have to find the biggest population represented by 1 rep

#

Not the smallest

foggy fern
#

?

#

If you say the smallest state gets 1 rep and scale from there every rep should represent about the same number of people

faint radish
#

If a state has 1 person, it would still have 1 rep. You can’t use the smallest state as the “baseline”.

foggy fern
#

If we ever end up with a state being so small it skews things that badly perhaps they shouldn't be a state 😛

faint radish
#

Right, and I’m saying that’s a bad idea. You take the largest group represented by one rep, and go from there.

foggy fern
#

Like, you know, North Dakota shouldn't exist 😛

#

If you start with the largest Wyoming gets 0 reps

#

Either that or you're where we are now

faint radish
#

No, because every state gets 1

foggy fern
#

Your system is what we have now

dusky raft
#

which is fine for the most part, if you want more representation, move to a different state

tough cedar
#

that's not the point of the house of reps

#

it's supposed to be proportional

#

it's not proportional

#

we already have the senate for unproportional representation

foggy fern
#

Yeah let me just move to the middle of nowhere with zero savings and zero job opportunities so I can actually have my voice heard in my goverment

shut vine
#

That wont get your voice heard, you have to be elected for that

dusky raft
#

I heard opening a farm is profitable though

#

the government litterally pays for it

foggy fern
#

We can get in to the problems with lobbying and campaign finance later 😛

#

And no, it's really hard to run an independent farm

#

Most farmland is run by big agribusinesses

dusky raft
#

im joking of course on that part, though the amount of money going towards fucking corn is insane

shut vine
#

Well you see you have to make people dependent on the government to control them

foggy fern
#

It's because we decided we didn't want to go through the shortages of the 30s and 40s again

#

EU does the same thing

#

Better to overproduce and cover the losses

#

It could almost certainly use an overhaul though

broken raven
#

@near glen in all seriousness, wasn't there a german chancellor lady who said "We've allowed India to become a large pharma producer"

What does ALLOWED mean?

#

Like, do we need allowance to do something in our own country?

near glen
#

Idk if merkel said that and in what context

mystic ermine
#

companies invest in these countries

#

But, generally it's more to take advantage of the cheap market vs reeaaallly doing good

near glen
#

I would assume it was critisism on our dependency for medical supply on asia

broken raven
#

alright

mystic ermine
#

Like, india is already the china of software development

broken raven
#

is that good or bad

mystic ermine
#

cheap labour with high churn rates

#

low quality, no real investment in keeping stuff long term, etc

near glen
#

India is known for shit their IT Outsourcing, both programming and call centers, plus scam shops for phone scamming

mystic ermine
#

^^

torn wadi
#

Oh wait.

broken raven
#

I mean india is not that bad

near glen
#

Isn't foxconn in the business of highering the suicide rates?

mystic ermine
#

Thing is that because it's a cheap as all shit market with a high churn rate, they can pay people beans, get some low quality crapcode out of it, and run off with the profits

#

Bro

#

Foxconn had suicide nets on their buildings.

torn wadi
mystic ermine
#

god fucking

broken raven
#

how did india get this fucked up

#

:(

near glen
#

Idk, india is modern day slavery

bronze shard
#

covid

near glen
#

Thanks to the caste system

broken raven
#

No, surely that can't be it

dapper veldt
#

no not the caste system

broken raven
#

caste system is very frowned upon

#

sure, its there

dapper veldt
#

its corrupt people in gvmt taking money

broken raven
#

but that doesn't really have the magnitude to mess up things that much anymore

near glen
#

I have seen indians reenact their caste system fantasies here

#

Shitting on lower caste coworkers

dapper veldt
broken raven
#

Well, those are dumb indians

#

you can't judge us on those few morons

dapper veldt
#

yeah

broken raven
near glen
#

They got throw out faster than they could blink, that shit doesn't fly here

broken raven
#

absolutely

#

and thats a good thing

near glen
#

Well, the caste system is the fundament of your society, no?

broken raven
#

NO

#

WHAT

#

AOKGHALEGKU

dapper veldt
#

its not

mystic ermine
#

it's a mixture of things

dapper veldt
#

mostly hindu religion tbh

broken raven
#

Nonono

#

yk what

#

lemme think

#

I'll write a giant para on what the "fundamental" of indian society is

dapper veldt
#

ok snoopa

mystic ermine
#

oh god, we had some indian kid in our college who literally wouldn't even look at a female

broken raven
#

Just to be clear, which aspect we talking about?

#

In terms of "fundamental?"

dapper veldt
#

cat those are like extremely orthodox hindus

mystic ermine
#

and, well, india is literally one of those places where you can live in a total shitheap and look a mile or two down the road and see a huge big busting city

near glen
#

Well, explain how the caste system affects modern day india

broken raven
broken raven
near glen
#

Sure, I would love some insight

mystic ermine
#

There is defo a huge "us and them" mentality, and the government has 100% let down many of the poor areas

broken raven
#

Its crucial that I explain this correctly and properly

near glen
#

Because obviously my view is a western one, impacted by movies and documentaries

broken raven
#

So, I'll take time

mystic ermine
#

many of the poor areas also have huge familial values in a community, which is why things like covid spreads fast as all shit once it gets going

broken raven
#

ok bai

near glen
#

Like recently I watched the white tiger

broken raven
#

yeah you told me

dapper veldt
mystic ermine
#

I mean, it's mostly a regional thing as the muslims are like it too, even during covid starting up here and my mates mother basically being bed ridden, people would still run back and forth coming over even while her immune system is already fucked from surgery and such

near glen
#

Ramadan is happening rn, ppl here attribute that to a spike in covid infections 🤷‍♂️

#

Fuck all religions 😂

mystic ermine
#

Like, it's nice that the family ties are that strong that they'll look after each other no matter what, I don't know too many white families over here who'd have that level of ties, like, my mates family would bring food over for her mother and father to eat as he'd get back from work and be too busy/forget to eat and such

#

Like, it's nice that they got at least that

#

and, yea, ramadan is crazy

dapper veldt
#

Family ties in india are just too clingy imo

mystic ermine
#

They fast all day and then basically as soon as night comes god do they fucking put food away

#

Saying that, my mates mother would always feed me when I came over which was kinda awkward, but, damn

#

THeir food holy fuck

#

casual white kid sitting there eating away, tears pouring down his face still shovelling

dapper veldt
#

hmm

near glen
#

I had a half turkish gf once, they didn't do any of the religious bullshit, but they did the food, like when we were at here grandma, I knew to not eat all day before showing up 😂

dapper veldt
#

thats like global tho

#

say if i went india after covid ended and met my grandparents, etc my stomach would probs burst

#

we were gonna go last year but then covid hit >:(

broken raven
#

ok bois diagram done and submitted

dapper veldt
#

send here

broken raven
#

srsly

dapper veldt
#

how do you write "P"

broken raven
#

cursive p

#

On how the caste system affects modern-day India.

Let me start with saying in which environment I am living in, so that you can see from where these views are coming

I live in Delhi. Its the capital region of India. Very centralized. Now, I live in an apartment, rent is about INR 33k/month, so we're already earning a LOT more than the normal Indian man (yes, women are paid lesser)
DIRECTLY next to my apartments is a very large slum area, from where we get our maids and stuff

The maids are paid no less than INR 6k/month.

So, from my society, my environment, I can say this:
My mom's family side is relatively well-set
My dad on the other hand, comes from the village

Still, I can say with confidence that the caste system has not ONCE affected my day to day life. Caste system is obsolete in urban areas. Sure, there are 1 or 2 bitches that still try to enforce it, but needless to say they are immediately exempted from society.

Indians, as people, are some of the most "family" people you know, for us, family is everything.

In rural areas, sure, caste system is there, sure, but its impact has been DRASTICALLY decreased

Previously, Dalits would not be allowed to live with us, but now, few, if none people care about what caste you are.

So, as a person who lives in India, I would say that the impact of the caste system is still felt, but it is quite obsolete now. Ever since we gained independence and established equality before law, you can be sure that you will not face discrimination in government offices. Of other places, I am not so sure, but can say that the impact is considerably lesser.

Caste system is not who we are. Not anymore. It does not define us as people, it does not define what we can do. Its not the "core" of anything. Its a thing that exists, and people wish to preserve it because it has existed for centuries.

Modern day India functions on what you can make, what you can eat, and what you can provide for your family.

#

@near glen

#

pls dont destroy me .-.

near glen
#

But yet you have a maid you only pay 6k/month

#

While rent is 5 times that

broken raven
#

tbh rent is determined by the area lol

near glen
#

It's just these stark differences

broken raven
#

I don't get it

#

please elaborate

mystic ermine
#

your justification that paying somebody who cleans your place less than it would cost to rent a home in your area says it all, really

near glen
#

You don't see an issue with paying somebody 6k/month while the cost of living is waaay way higher than that?

broken raven
#

hm

#

I suppose i did not see that

mystic ermine
#

you are a higher caste, and so you take advantage of those in lower communities in order to save cash, rather than paying somebody in your community

broken raven
#

caste is not the right word

near glen
#

In first world countries you can make a living from cleaning houses and still have a good flat and enough money to eat

dapper veldt
#

not caste

#

yh caste isnt the right word

broken raven
#

we are not a higher caste

dapper veldt
#

just have more money ig

near glen
#

Well, but castes are what created the situation

broken raven
#

my father built this life

#

are they

#

?

near glen
#

How else do you make these differences in lifestyle socially acceptable?

broken raven
#

I won't

#

they aren't acceptable

#

no one should have to live like that

dapper veldt
#

yeah

eager hawk
near glen
#

Just the existence of these slums says that something is very very wrong with your country

broken raven
#

my point is not to prove that there's nothing wrong with my country

#

my point is to prove that its not because of the caste system

dapper veldt
#

yeah, india is a developing country, but its trying to change tho

#

modern beliefs ^

broken raven
#

But it is still wrong to say that castes created those differences, because they did not. What did create those stark differences? I suppose its that every country has its rich and poor, but the poor are not getting poorer. Standard of living has been steadily increasing. The maid we have earns 6-7k a month from one house
She works in 3 houses
She also has 2 daughters
Hence, they can afford to live around here
They can apply for government benefits, and they wont wont be given them just because they're a certain caste

dapper veldt
broken raven
#

holy shit that is awesome

eager hawk
broken raven
#

xD

dapper veldt
#

thx

#

gcses amirite

broken raven
#

where martin

#

someone call martin

mystic ermine
#

this is my handwriting

#

looks clean

#

'nuff said, really

unknown.png
#

runs

dapper veldt
#

lol

broken raven
dapper veldt
#

all of mine are private

#

then i get bored and delete them

broken raven
#

smh

dapper veldt
#

then start again

#

lol

broken raven
near glen
#

I read there

#

That*

broken raven
#

oki

simple prairie
#

Caste system is old and has a fundamental effect on India society even today. It’s the same as black in the US. The decades of economy disadvantage can still be seen today. Houses and lands are passed down from the older generations and if you look at the housing data of US as a whole, it is still overwhelming favoring white populations and it is probably the same case for India. @broken raven

broken raven
#

nicely put, except no on favours any one because of the caste system anymore just saying ^^

simple prairie
#

It is not to discredit the effort made in the recent year in India to create equality but it will definitely be wrong to say it has no effect today.

broken raven
#

absolutely

simple prairie
#

Oh wow my first message in pol. Probably last run

broken raven
#

lmao

dapper veldt
strong crow
dapper veldt
#

conflict

strong crow
#

that was mine as well

#

revised like 3 poems the night before the exam and got very lucky with it

dapper veldt
#

luckyyy

mystic ermine
#

That's the peom I had a GCSE lit on

#

actually came up in the test

strong crow
#

I think mine was war photographer? I don't quite remember

eager hawk
dapper veldt
#

Lol

near glen
#

Over a year into this pandemic and ppl are still downplaying the effects 🤦

mystic ermine
#

I mean, it's conflicting, we don't know the long term effects of the vaccine and most people in that age range are not really at a huge risk of issues from covid

near glen
#

We also don't know the long term issues of covid, but we do know they aren't pretty

#

Because some ppl are already experiencing them

#

Even after mild symptoms

mystic ermine
#

Well, yea, that's the general issue with it all

#

am kinda stuck wondering if I got it like, late 2019 or whatever as my BFFs mate came across from somewhere stupid

near glen
#

Get an antigen test

mystic ermine
#

would it be effective after like a year or so?

near glen
#

Maybe 🤷‍♂️

#

We know the vaccines are effective way over 6 months so

mystic ermine
#

Bit, I mean, that's when I started having the persistent tiedness issues

#

Like, I started on the crazy person meds and ended up getting a nasty ass flu around the same time

near glen
#

It's most likely unrelated and really unlikely that you actually got it so early

mystic ermine
#

it seems to be sloooowly weening off, complex as I just quit smoking the green stuff

near glen
#

But you can get a test pretty easily for that now

#

So might as well

#

Anyways, point is, running around telling ppl to not get the vaccine cause this virus is harmless to them is really the last thing we need rn

mystic ermine
#

We can't get them in the UK, which is joyous... yay for the UK

near glen
#

Antigen Tests?

mystic ermine
#

Yea..

near glen
#

Kek I have 26 locations in my city where I can get the pcr or an antigen test

mystic ermine
#

They're only available to like a small % of people over here, unless I wanna pay for it, which, I can't

#

getting out of the UK is basically like, long term goal for me 😄

near glen
#

Antigen test isn't free here, costs like 25 euro

#

The normal test is free once a week

mystic ermine
#

Only £65 here

#

wooo

#

I ain't had a PCR test, I don't leave the place and don't go anywhere I'd be putting people at risk, so, 🤷‍♂️

near glen
#

Why are they so expensive? They aren't gov subsided here either, only the pcr ones are

mystic ermine
#

only available in private, and it includes a few other things too

near glen
#

Oh good point idk if health insurance subsidises the antigen Tests here

#

But yeah most testing is private here too, unless you gov/state/city employee, that's get handled by local health inspector stuff

mystic ermine
pure jetty
#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AofPJOZIiFs

YouTube
Washington Post
LIVE on April 28 at 8 p.m. ET | Biden’s first address to Congress

President Biden will deliver his first speech to a joint session of Congress on April 28, marking the conclusion of his first 100 days in office. The address will be followed by a rebuttal from Republican Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina.

The Post will offer live reporting and analysis from the newsroom, Capitol Hill and the White House. Li...

▶ Play video
faint radish
#

Awww no comments

#

Comments on things like this are always wholesome, and represent the best the internet has to offer

restive seal
#

Don't worry they're popping up comments on the WH feed

pure jetty
#

get those hecklers off the screen!

faint radish
#

Paycheck fairness? I thought it’s been illegal to pay men/women different amounts for the same job since the 60s

pure jetty
#

generally when we talk about age gap it's looking at systemic issues which cause women to go into/choose lower paying jobs

#

which it seems to be women feel less competitive in the work place due to the way they are raised

#

and less competitiveness leads to not going into more competitive jobs, not seeking performance based pay, etc

#

nobody worth their weight in salt actually thinks/means women are getting paid less for the same job

faint radish
#

Is less competitiveness only due to how their raised? Other than that, Im with you on pay differences

pure jetty
#

yeah with how they're rasied

#

generally its said that they're raised to be less competitive and thus the effects above

#

FUCK there was an amazing study and video explaining all that in detail but I can't find it

shut vine
#

Agreeableness is the biggest known indicator in pay difference, and there are heavy links between that and the differences in brain activation patterns between males and females. Current multi-cultural psychological studies seems to indicate it's more nature than nurture.

#

Though that's a fairly difficult thing to say for certain, but the fact the studies span most modern cultures is fairly suggestive.

#

Also the agreeableness indicator is basically correlative, which has issues obviously.

near glen
#

https://www.bundesverfassungsgericht.de/SharedDocs/Pressemitteilungen/EN/2021/bvg21-031.html

Bundesverfassungsgericht - Press - Constitutional complaints agai...

In an order published today, the First Senate of the Federal Constitutional Court held that the provisions of the Federal Climate Change Act of 12 December 2019 (Bundes-Klimaschutzgesetz – KSG) governing national climate targets and the annual emission amounts allowed until 2030 are incompatible with fundamental rights insofar as they lack suffi...

#

Nice!

#

Some kids successful argued that the current climate change act violates their fundamental rights because it doesn't properly try to reduce emissions, and the federal constitutional court (our supreme court I guess?) followed parts of their argumentation, gov now needs to fix it by end of next year

#

The court explicitly mentioned that because of their young age, and the plan of the gov to shift most reductions past 2030, puts too much burden on their generation

faint radish
#

Idrk how that’s the purview of a court, but idrk anything about the German political system.

#

It shouldn’t be in the purview of a court to say… oh, this doesn’t do enough, or this puts too much strain on that. That’s the legislatures job.

near glen
#

It's the court where you can challenge if laws violate the constitution

faint radish
#

“Puts too much burden on their generation” has something to do with your constitution?

wispy wolf
#

obama

faint radish
#

That sounds like a political opinion

near glen
#

In german gov has the job to protect it's citizens, in the constitution. If you can argue that the law doesn't protect the citizens properly, you might get the court to say the law needs to be amended

#

The court isn't political, this isn't the US

faint radish
#

The court isn’t political in the US either. Both parties and the media can try to frame it that way, but it’s not.

#

Courts don’t and shouldn’t give political opinions. Their job is to simply say, does this law go beyond the powers given to the government.

near glen
#

Basically, their argumentation was trying to establish a right to a future, in relation to the first paragraph of our constitution: human dignity is unimpeachable. The climate catastrophe threatens their future, the law doesn't do enough to combat that, based on facts they showed and the court evaluated.

#

Well, our gov works fundamentally different. We not only check that they don't overuse their power, but that they also not underuse their power to fullfil their duties

faint radish
#

That sounds very political. The court has to decide if a law will have enough of an effect on the future of the people? That should be entirely up to the people themselves, through their legislative representatives