It's the root, what do you expect? 😛
#politics
foggy fern
It's like Breitbart for black leftists but without the lies
Well, without the outright lies, they clearly exaggerate a bit
eager hawk
well as long as the Oklahoma law is enforced so that anti-racism and pro-trump protestors are both charged and convicted equally and fairly as per the new legislation, i guess i won't get upset over it.
smoky hedge
Is that constitutional?
“… prohibiting the free exercise thereof … the right of the people peaceably to assemble … ”
I'd argue it goes against this
Peaceably implies without fear of violence/etc - and it's hard to argue getting hit by a car violates that
mystic ermine
The nature of the bill is that it tries to protect people in the event of panic when they percieve that they're in danger
e.g. that video where a bunch of people started crowding and threatening some car and the driver sped off
smoky hedge
I feel it's more likely to result in what Amaranth said tbh
mystic ermine
I mean, there is defo some risks there and I hope that common sense is applied here
near glen
Biden sanctions the company that found the nsa switch in intel ME cause there is a national emergency and they are terrorists!
glossy sandal
Thanks for the clarification
foggy fern
Isn't the NSA switch to turn most of ME off?
And I think it was less "NSA mode" and more "NSA is responsible for our security and says we shouldn't have this"
All government computers should have it turned off because NSA is more paranoid than you are
torn wadi
Some OEM boards allow you to disable ME with a jumper. But the NSA mode is a bit special.
Regardless, the fact they names it NSA mode, is the issue. And the fact that you can't do what ever you want on your own hardware.
When will we discover Ring -4 tho?
foggy fern
They don't call it NSA mode though, I think it was The Register that did that
It's called reserve_hap
I think the NSA might actually have their own version of ME they load in there after turning off the normal one, not sure
They were basically trying to make their own AWS but with NSA-level security
torn wadi
aka:
https://cdn.kme.si/public/images-cache/750xX/2021/04/14/3bcdf5fe96228cfeb38e2c011c7e960a/60775f6eee69f/3bcdf5fe96228cfeb38e2c011c7e960a.jpeg
https://cdn.kme.si/public/images-cache/750xX/2021/04/14/79ab0dd5a535871a2c99718a0b9fc35e/60775fd9722c1/79ab0dd5a535871a2c99718a0b9fc35e.jpeg
foggy fern
What I'm hearing is your borders are all in the wrong places
torn wadi
According to a very unpopular politician in Slovenia. 
There is an image of the proposed borders in the article.
foggy fern
Wasn't there a war over this like 25 years ago?
torn wadi
It never really ended.
mystic ermine
So, Pfizer is saying that a 3rd dose within 6-12 months or so would be needed, would link article but I got no idea which news site people trust these days so yolo
foggy fern
That's not really what he said
He isn't saying their shot will need a booster to keep working, he is saying if we don't stop the variants it seems likely
foggy fern
We don't know yet if the mRNA vaccines will need boosters to keep working on the original version(s)
We know at 6 months they're still more than 90% effective
near glen
We just miss data
It's likely that in 6 months we will stay that after 12 months it's still 80% effective or smth
eager hawk
https://www.foxnews.com/media/piers-morgan-to-us-on-frequent-mass-shootings-just-admit-you-dont-care
pure jetty
Rich coming from him
Where do I give him his virtue points
Messaging like "bro just fix it" is so less than useless
faint radish
mystic ermine
eager hawk
Sooo yes the public leans heavily against GOP ideals, what's new about that loool
Stupid double negative though yeah
faint radish
well the point of me posting it was that they are all the same...
mystic ermine
typical news poll thing, it's very...
faint radish
which is what I find most interesting
mystic ermine
Like, as somebody who sorta like, right leaning but more in the centre, there has to be balance, and, am hard against it especially for how broad of a thing "minors" is, we defo shouldn't be transitioning what are literally children, but, there comes a point where it's like, if you're 100% this is what you wanna do, why do I care to stand in the way, you do you
eager hawk
https://www.coindesk.com/price/dogecoin
Doge peaked at like 45 cents wtf
mystic ermine
TO THE MOON!
restive seal
Nah, this has been going on since at least the bitcoin spike
pure jetty
Yeah crypto people have always been a pita
But GME def brought more people into that group
brisk cradle
@pure jetty Honestly, I'm going to sound like a broken record and wholesome here, but index funds are overall the better option
you literally shove your money in and just forget about it
then just don't read financial news or the latest scam devised by Bitcoin Idiots, LLC
wait 20+ years until you're ready to retire, and enjoy your nest egg
faint radish
oh yeah for sure. The stock market goes up, and it goes down, but on average, it goes up
so if you just choose a safe investment (like an index fund) and just wait decades, you will make a bunch of money
pure jetty
<@!194473148161327104> Honestly, I'm going to sound like a broken record and who...
100%
shy gulch
oh yeah for sure. The stock market goes up, and it goes down, but on average, it...
yeah
but theres also a chance your stock blows
20 years is a long time
near glen
My company manages fonds, so I can just use that without having to pay for anything, pretty great
No fees at all
mystic ermine
afaik, index funds generally use a wide range of investments so the case for a general lose is pretty minimal
mystic ermine
at the end of the day, there is always a chance of losses
there is a lot more cash and velocity in the short game, but, might higher risks
shy gulch
yeah that's investing
near glen
And they can offer good consultation, for free, without commission and stuff
And they don't invest into shit stuff like oil, coal, military and stuff
faint radish
Well, militaries aren’t going anywhere thankfully, so I’d think that was a fine investment
near glen
its just something I refuse to support morally wise
mystic ermine
I mean, I support the military and their tech efforts
I don't support the governments use of the military, but, y' know
near glen
I just don't want that they use my money to invest into weapons and shit
near glen
well, yes
but whenever I have a choice I can use that
also
assuming germany spends money on military
😂
faint radish
You are morally against militaries?
near glen
yes
faint radish
The purpose of a military is to defend a countries people and their values.
near glen
thats not what militaries do
when did the US military last defend their country?
US military only does attack wars to secure oil
faint radish
Literally every day? But it sounds like you disagree with some stuff the governments do with militaries
near glen
I haven't heard of a invasion of US soil, lol
restive seal
I haven't heard of a invasion of US soil, lol
WW2, pearl harbor!
near glen
and since then?
restive seal
Well, saudis attacked us in 2001 so we went after afghanistan and then iraq
near glen
I am just not sure how you defend your country in a war you started on the other side of the earth
near glen
Well, saudis attacked us in 2001 so we went after afghanistan and then iraq
no, a terrorist, funded by the cia, blew up some skyscraper
faint radish
What’s that whole “funded by the cia” comment supposed to mean?
near glen
that the cia send funds to osama bin laden
faint radish
The other nations of NATO qualified it as an attack on all of them. That’s a unanimous thing
restive seal
What’s that whole “funded by the cia” comment supposed to mean?
Mujahideen were funded by Operation Cyclone, which was CIA. Though there is some doubt on if bin Laden got funding directly or was just indirectly benefiting from the funds supporting the Afghan mujahideen.
faint radish
Yeah, I knew that the cia had funded stuff in the region before
But when you say it like that... it sounds like you were saying the cia funded the blowing up of the buildings
near glen
no, they funded a war in the middle east that backfired hard
faint radish
Ok, we getting away for the mortality of militaries question. Do you think Ramstein is a negative for Germany?
faint radish
Oh, so Germany has partnered with the US (in the form of letting the base exist) and that’s a part of the us’s human rights violations in the Middle East.
near glen
well, the base enables the drone strikes
faint radish
Eh, whatever. I can’t change your mind so it doesn’t matter. Human nature doesn’t change. We have had the need for militaries in the past, we aren’t somehow “better” than 80 years ago that they aren’t needed anymore, and until humans evolve, I think it is morally right for a military to defend my liberty. 🤷
restive seal
I think it is morally right for a military to defend my liberty
This is a non-sequitur to the prior conversation which is about how various militaries have not been used for that. 😛
near glen
you dont defend your liberty, you ruin ppls lifes
mystic ermine
the military doesn't
the government with its own self interest does
the military doesn't order itself into iraq
the gov does
restive seal
That feels like the most out of control version of "guns don't kill people"
near glen
the military doesn't
weeelll, so if we defund the military they can't go anywhere, thats what we do in germany 😂
even if they were ordered to go anywhere, they can't, cause they got no equipment, no vehicles, etc
mystic ermine
and if you defund the military who defends the country?
if you defund the police, who defends the citizens?
Like... I wish we lived in a happy go lucky world where everybody gets along
But, like, we're in the real world, and there are people out there who wanna kill you
restive seal
But, like, we're in the real world, and there are people out there who wanna kil...
Many of whom wish to do so because of actions of our military 🤔
mystic ermine
some of whom want to do so because you pray to the wrong god if any
and, well, fuck the government
near glen
I didnt say defund the police
thats very different
police acts here
military acts in some shithole
pure jetty
Going off what I read here (I'm a little late 😄 ), you need a strong military presence in order to not get attacked
shut vine
Yeah, unless you live in Utopia dreamland
pure jetty
The US military especially as provides presence to countries like South Korea
While some people might not like the size of ours, if it's not huge someone else will get bigger
shut vine
Like military misuse is historically known, but if all of the western countries demilitarize for example, others would just take control
pure jetty
And idk about you, I would like the United States to be the one in power rather than Russia or China
Sure we can do some things bad time to time lol Vietnam but generally everything is done for the greater good
shut vine
Yea I agree
near glen
Going off what I read here (I'm a little late 😄 ), you need a strong military p...
Our military presence and capabilities in germany are laughable, why is nobody attacking us?
mystic ermine
doesn't the US have presence there, ontop of NATO?
near glen
US presence here is mostly used to control drones and supply missions I think
pure jetty
You're allied with the EU and it's generally understood the US would help too
near glen
So you agree we don't need military as Germans? :P
pure jetty
Maybe sure
mystic ermine
I mean, sure
pure jetty
I'm not too familiar but I think if you're an EU member you're probably safe
But the US is a different story
mystic ermine
but, only because you have so many countries which will fight in your steed
near glen
But there is no EU military
shut vine
Sure, leave NATO and defund your military
near glen
Unless you consider frontex Military
They are harmless
They only shoot Refugees
Or watch them drown
near glen
Yeah, and American Presidents keep reminding us that they think we don't waste enough money on military because of that
shut vine
Germany is a member state, 100%
Which means they have a made an agreement to have a military, and a legal obligation to comply with that agreement
near glen
Because we don't agree with the 2% guideline
shut vine
Yeah that's fine, if you don't agree just leave.
pure jetty
It's probably good to have some sort of military in case you split from EU? but generally you guys have strong allies
shut vine
Germany is basically the EU though really.
near glen
Yeah we have no interest in splitting from the EU, we arent insane like the brits
mystic ermine
EU skepticism is only growing 😄
shut vine
Correct, the British are the only ones insane like the British are, and the Germans are the only ones insane like the Germans are.
near glen
The EU is the reason we didn't had war's in europe for the last 80 years
mystic ermine
not entirely
pure jetty
The EU probably did stabilize your region for a hot period
near glen
If you ignore the Shit azerbaijan is doing I guess
pure jetty
Do you need it now? Ehhhhh
mystic ermine
Like, it helped get up the international trade between us to the point that we depend on one another
near glen
Does the USA need to exist?
tough cedar
yes weaken the EU thereby growing the USA's influence 
mystic ermine
looks at the states which want out of the USA
near glen
The EU is here to stay and will only expand in capabilities
We need to group in order to economically survive against the US and China
I don't want the world to be ruled by American or chinease Ideals
mystic ermine
I don't want the world to be ruled under EU ideals either
tough cedar
well keep the EU then and you don't have to worry about it unless the U.S and China destroy themselves
shut vine
I meant more that if Germany leaves the EU it will collapse anyway.
mystic ermine
france was getting to the sorta like tipping point with the EU
and I really doubt that the EU is gonna do much to fix that
shut vine
I bet also if Germany has a huge financial crisis more countries will follow Britain quickly.
pure jetty
if countries want to be beholden to the EU it doesn't really matter to anyone else and I don't really care I don't live there
shut vine
Yeah I agree.
pure jetty
Personally I don't see how that's good for countries like Germany France and Italy
But if their people want to leave they will
Whatever
mystic ermine
I like some of the things which the EU sorta like offers, e.g. freedom of travel, but, I also believe that countries should be able to make such agreements between themselves and would love to see that
pure jetty
how
near glen
Did you already forget?
mystic ermine
EU has been piping cash to them for fucking years
pure jetty
I'm genuinely asking I have no idea yeah
shut vine
I don't have a time machine to verify this statement, do you have a timelord that can?
I don't have a time machine to verify this statement, do you have a timelord that can?
pure jetty
Dude it feels like it's been 5 years 😄
shut vine
Or are you saying that because the EU helped Italy that no one else would if the EU didn't exist and didn't offer help?
near glen
They had been Hit incredibly hard and their health system collapsed so EU member states stepped in to help
mystic ermine
Yea, after they called the EU out from their silence...
shut vine
So you're saying if the EU system did not exist those countries would not offer the help anyway?
pure jetty
Ah helped with healthcare ok
near glen
Well yes it could have been faster, but you can always improve
mystic ermine
It's nice that they finally stepped up like weeks later
But, it really says it all about the EU
when countries are in need, the EU stays silent
unless they spot a threat to their own tails
shut vine
Well, I don't think so, but it conflicts with the idea that the EU is this all good thing.
mystic ermine
then the EU runs in to save face
mystic ermine
net positive is useless when the positive literally comes weeks later after shits already started burning down to the ground.
near glen
Idk what you are arguing here
I mean, we can just sit back and wait and see if the UK is better off without being part of the EU
Last I checked there was a civil war approaching in northern island
mystic ermine
from the border...
shut vine
I see, and the EU stops civil wars?
mystic ermine
last I recall this erupted when the EU tried to hard enforce the border.
shut vine
Like I mean history would disagree with that.
near glen
Cat thats how the EU border works
No borders inside the EU, but a border on the outside
pure jetty
Cgpgrey had a good video on it
mystic ermine
The border was there, and there was some concerns
near glen
Opportunities to negotiate special handling were there
pure jetty
The Irelands want open borders, they rioted last time
near glen
You can't possible turn at around at the EU, lmao
mystic ermine
I mean, there are issues at the border
near glen
The Irelands want open borders, they rioted last time
Yeah, as any EU citizen wants
mystic ermine
and then the EU literally threatened to close the border
adding fuel onto the fire
near glen
The EU can't close borders like that
shut vine
Who did they want open borders with?
mystic ermine
and then some other crap happened which added further fuel onto the fire with their own government
You're forgetting the part where they literally announced they where blocking export of vaccines from the EU to NI...
near glen
Well, should be talk about the reverse?
The EU is the biggest corona vaccine exporter in the world right now
And no, the EU didn't say to block exports to NI
We just approve them differently now
shut vine
They blocked exporting them everywhere.
mystic ermine
Okay, not sure if they 100% enacted it, but, they where close.
shut vine
Wasn't just NI, every country that pre-paid AZ money got blocked until they filled the EU's LATE order.
pure jetty
Phizer and Moderna are being made in US last I knew
shut vine
Yeah I'd be interested to see a comparison of EU exported vaccines to non-EU countries vs exports of just those two companies.
mystic ermine
meanwhile, the UK had like 3 months of shortage while tryna fix the supply issues
shut vine
Statistics, not claims by a politician or business person.
foggy fern
afaik the US is not allowing export of any vaccine right now
And not all of the Moderna and Pfizer ones are made in the US
pure jetty
Most are afaik
foggy fern
It was a big deal when the US released some to Canada and Mexico a month ago
pure jetty
And I don't expect really anyone to export vaccines before vaccinating their entire population
Well a majority at least
near glen
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55865539
Wasn't aware of that
shut vine
I'm not sure how Australia managed to secure both Moderna and Pfizer vaccines then.
Probably stole them from under Sleepy Joes nose.
😉
near glen
Phizer and Moderna are being made in US last I knew
Philzer is producing a german product, we are producing it hear too, lol
foggy fern
Given Pfizer's rapid manufacturing timelines, not to mention the complexity of the vaccine's mRNA production process, the company "has created two dedicated supply lines with established vaccine capabilities—one each in U.S. and Europe—to exclusively manufacture this vaccine for use across the world," he said, adding, "This will continue to be the company’s strategy for the time being."
foggy fern
BioNTech made the vaccine, it's a German company
Pfizer manufactures it and runs the trials
shut vine
Ah interesting.
pure jetty
Philzer is producing a german product, we are producing it hear too, lol
Looks like they started German manufacturing in Feb 2021
near glen
foggy fern
BioNTech is a startup, they come up with things and partner with others to see if they work
near glen
Interesting
shut vine
I was sure it was developed with CRISPR but guess I'm wrong
near glen
Biontech is producing in belgium iirc
foggy fern
Moderna has at least some of their own manufacturing
near glen
I don't remember
pure jetty
I was sure it was developed with CRISPR but guess I'm wrong
Not even remotely related
near glen
Idk most of the doses here come from belgium I think
shut vine
Ah the whole EU is 4th
foggy fern
Moderna is definitely running their own trials
shut vine
I mean 3rd
foggy fern
iirc we're learning that China's vaccines don't work so well
So there is a chance all of those have been wasted and people will need at least a booster
pure jetty
Yeah it was like 60 something percent
They're likely using their vaccines for diplomatic reasons
near glen
Is moderna curevac?
foggy fern
Curevac is another German company, isn't it?
near glen
Ah pfizer is the belgium fab
And the mrna thing for the vaccine is produced in germany
near glen
Curevac partnered with Novartis, I see
shut vine
The EU population is roughly 6.9x that of the UK
shut vine
16m, times 6.9 is like 110.5
near glen
Can you show the source?
near glen
That's produced
shut vine
I got the colors mixed up, RIP me.
foggy fern
iirc a lot of the UK's supply was made in Belgium
shut vine
The EU is the biggest corona vaccine exporter in the world right now
But this is also wrong based on your own data.
foggy fern
That's why the EU appearing to freeze exports for a bit there was a big deal in the UK
near glen
But this is also wrong based on your own data.
Yeah, I got that statement from VdL, idk where she got her data from, lol
shut vine
Yeah, that's why I wanted stats, politicians are scum.
near glen
It's strange, idk why she would say smth wrong in an official eu statement
foggy fern
It might have been true a few weeks ago, China and India are the kind of places where I'd expect them to go from 0 to 100 million pretty fast if they wanted to
foggy fern
If they only consider the ones approved for use in the EU that'd make sense too
That'd be lying but I could see why
mystic ermine
I mean, I'd be interested to see the export numbers by company
near glen
shut vine
I mean, if they thought that they should have said something along the lines of "the biggest exporter of a largely considered effective vaccine that may or may not give you blood clots".
mystic ermine
especially as many countries bought into the UK one months before they did, and the EU got a contract which basically gave them the left overs pretty much
shut vine
I'd also be interested if those numbers are actual exports or intended.
foggy fern
Wait isn't the AstraZeneca one the one made by Oxford?
shut vine
Also if they're counting exports from EU countries to other EU countries.
mystic ermine
Yes, AZ is the UK one
foggy fern
I suppose it's probably mostly made in Belgium too
It's really shitty that they change the color for the last bar
shut vine
UK makes most of the AZ vaccines that it uses.
foggy fern
It's clear which is which still it's just shitty 😛
foggy fern
Makes sense Germany would mostly use the German one, probably preordered a ton of it in March 2020
shut vine
They actually delayed the preorders, pretty sure they waited post July.
near glen
We brought parts of the company
Iirc we don't get more than any other EU country tho, we share
But don't quote me on that
foggy fern
That's been one of the complaints I've seen so probably
near glen
More as in, EU divided stuff up by population or smth
shut vine
The controversy surrounding AZ was mostly that many countries outside the EU had preordered and paid well in advance of EU countries, and the EU blocked exports until the later orders from the EU were filled.
Well that was my take on it.
foggy fern
Something about Germany being slowed down by how fast other countries could actually use their doses due to the equal split setup
I think the implication was that Germany should just get all of some batch because they could use it while the others were dragging their feet
EU put their order in early they just didn't pay for it early 😛
shut vine
Also my recollection was that Italy was actually making most of the EU's supply of AZ.
foggy fern
And they blocked the export because AZ said they'd have X but only gave Y
mystic ermine
iirc that's false
near glen
Yeah az underdelivered badly or smth
While biontech actually delivered more than anticipated
mystic ermine
their contract was basically on the scope of "if we've got it, we'll give it"
near glen
Yeah best effort bullshit
shut vine
So would you say withholding from countries who paid early in order to support countries that dragged their feet was a benevolent and fair decision by the oligarchs at the EU?
shut vine
Of course.
shut vine
I can agree with that.
near glen
Idk what exactly the EU did but I hate VdL
shut vine
That was the process before they stopped it.
mystic ermine
AZ had contract agreements with other contries and then the EU came along and finally sealed the deal on their contract
shut vine
Then it became a "those with the most power" get it first situation.
mystic ermine
and then got upset that their "best effort" contract meant that they didn't get as much as they hoped
they spent months tryna reneg down the price of the vaccine
a vaccine which AZ was tryna afaik produce at as close to production value as possible
And the production issues afaik where down to supply issues
foggy fern
It's hard to find any updated news on this
mystic ermine
imho, the EU fucked themselves, backed themselves into a corner, and then tried to throw their power around to cover up for their own fuck up
shut vine
Cat's recollection is similar to mine, not that it means much.
foggy fern
Last thing I can find Australia officially said 250,000 doses had be blocked, the EU admitted to doing that some time in March but said it was the only time they'd blocked an export
shut vine
I've been wrong multiple times today.
foggy fern
But unofficially they were saying 3.1 million doses were blocked and the EU denied that
I'm trying to find some update or recap from a later date
The threat to block future AZ exports came at the end of March though while the one shipment everyone was willing to admit was blocked was at the start
mystic ermine
last I knew they where tryna hold stuff at the border
this was like a few weeks ago tops too iirc
foggy fern
They did a little theater at the end of March https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/24/world/europe/vaccine-European-Union-export.html
shut vine
This does not have numbers, however it was not a "ban on exports" it was a "block on all exports" until they meet the EU's demand https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56529868
foggy fern
I don't really know how to feel about all of this. The US and UK are at least honest about it and not exporting anything, seems like the EU is only willing to export if production is higher than they can use
shut vine
I'm curious also if they consider it an export if Italy provides Germany with vaccines.
near glen
No
foggy fern
Nope
The AZ vaccine would be "exported" several times while being made if that was the case 😛
The supply chain for it covers a lot of the EU
near glen
Same with the biontech one
shut vine
I mean from final packaging country to use country.
So that's from April 7
Oh nevermind, published April 7
foggy fern
More men than women women than men are vaccinated in the US, I wonder if that's just because women live longer so is mostly just saying "more old people are vaccinated" or if we're past that already
shut vine
Data from March 24
shut vine
More ~~men than women~~ women than men are vaccinated in the US, I wonder if tha...
Pregnancy probably
It's recommended pregnant people do not get it.
foggy fern
41% of women have at least one dose versus 35% of men
What? That would push the data the other way
Err, I said it wrong
It's more women than men
shut vine
Ah I see now
foggy fern
65+ in the US is over the 75% line
foggy fern
I still think the estimates for R0 mean we need 80-85% but the CDC and UK's version (forgot the name) say 75% is our goal
So we're basically done with old people for the vaccine now
I mean, if more get it great but we've reached our target
shut vine
So that's 30M females over 65, 24M males.
foggy fern
I'm looking at https://usafacts.org/visualizations/covid-vaccine-tracker-states/ btw
foggy fern
near glen
nividia buying arm is national security, but softbank buying arm wasn't?
restive seal
Someone doesn't trust jensen's kitchen...
foggy fern
They let softbank do it because brexit and because they weren't interested in the ARM market, just in making money
nvidia might use the purchase to shut out competitors but national security is the easiest tool in the toolbox
ivory isle
hey dont wanna get political or anything but pineapple on pizza is amazing
faint radish
If Maxine waters had inadvertently caused a mistrial of chauvin...
Judge denied motion for mistrial by defense, but did criticize politicians talking about the case without respect to the judicial, co-equal, branch of government.
What she said probably could’ve been grounds for a mistrial, especially since the jury isn’t physically sequestered.
Judge did say
I’ll give you that Congresswoman Waters may have given you something on appeal that may result in this whole trial being overturned.
I thought on appeal, you can’t introduce new evidence?
mystic ermine
prosecution already did that by tryna throw in new evidence
faint radish
Maybe if the appeal is related to the jury being influenced?
mystic ermine
people where expecting it was gonna be called a few days ago
i think it's pretty hard to say that this guy is getting a fair trial
faint radish
Idk why the jury wasn’t sequestered to begin with for this case
mystic ermine
defense asked for it other day an all, judge denied it
faint radish
I’m sure people who live in Minneapolis can’t wait to do the trial over again.
mystic ermine
riots are expected to happen by people no matter which way it goes
foggy fern
Aren't appeals about the law, not the facts?
Which is why you can't bring in new evidence
Juries decide the facts, you'd need a new trial for that
faint radish
I’m not sure. You can’t be tried for the same crime twice obv, so maybe he means the case will just get thrown out on a technicality during appeal or smth
I gonna give the judge the benefit of the doubt cause this is, ya know, his job and I’m not a lawyer
foggy fern
I think you can request a new trial, the government can't
faint radish
The defendant can request a new trial
And sometimes the government is the defendant
foggy fern
Right so you can be tried for the same crime twice, if you ask for it
faint radish
I don’t think that’s the same thing tho, an appeal vs double jeopardy
well whatever, the defendant can ask for an appeal, I’m just not understanding how what Maxine waters said would be used in an appeal
Maybe to move the trial
mystic ermine
if you don't vote guilty, rioters should get more confrontational, is what the fear of what is said is what am expecting
faint radish
Yeah, I understand that, I just don’t see how that’s material to the case before the jury.
So maybe you’d use that to move the trial elsewhere saying there can’t be an expectation of a fair trial in that jurisdiction
And you could use that to say the next jury needs to be sequestered
But the judge stated you could use that to somehow overturn the whole case on appeal, and I’m just not seeing how that would happen
foggy fern
Moving the trial wouldn't really make a difference
If you could do anything with that it'd be juror intimidation but if so it's similar to stochastic terrorism, she didn't tell anyone to do anything she just said how she thought things should be
So if she could get in trouble for that youtubers could get in trouble for things their viewers do
faint radish
She said to be more confrontational?
foggy fern
I thought it was less direct than that
faint radish
If the verdict didn’t turn out to be guilty,
We get more active, we've got to get more confrontational. We've got to make sure that they know that we mean business.
It’s pretty direct
foggy fern
Eh, more direct than the youtubers I'm thinking of but I still don't think it's enough
Not that she should have said it I just don't think you can do anything about it
faint radish
https://twitter.com/badlegaltakes/status/1384224835186827269?s=21
CNN Senior Legal Analyst 🤷
foggy fern
I guess she was looking for something more dramatic
mystic ermine
I mean, this is in the middle of nightly "peaceful protests", which is very, er...
Like, bad timing to say the least, imho, especially with the threats of a riot if he's not found guilty already in place
faint radish
Is this gonna be an OJ-type jury that takes like a couple hours?
< 4 hours for OJ which is crazy
faint radish
missed this pro-1st amendment ruling from the sixth circuit https://www.opn.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions.pdf/21a0071p-06.pdf
tl;dr revives a lawsuit against a univ for forcing a prof to use pronouns
restive seal
If this goes to scotus in favor of the professor this would make them unfireable for any spoken actions?
Oh wow this professor's a real gem
The threat the leftist regime now poses to freedom of speech and academic freedom — and thus the mission of the university in a free society — is incalculable
And one 6th circuit trump appointee suggested a university might require a Jewish professor to call a student "my Fuhrer" so ... yeah.
faint radish
The prof offered several compromises to the university which is I think the real heart of the case. He offered to use the last name always when addressing the student, then he offered to use the students pronouns and put in his syllabus that he was being compelled to do so and that it doesn’t represent his personal beliefs.
The case would’ve been decided differently I think if the professor deliberately used the wrong pronouns every time, because that would’ve met the hostile environment to academics statute the court cited in its opinion
Yeah, I re-read the first few pages, and I think the root of the case is, that he addressed Doe (the student) as “Doe” and other women as Ms, Ma’am, etc. The univ tries to compel him to use the same language he used for other women for Jane Doe.
faint radish
If this goes to scotus in favor of the professor this would make them unfireable...
The court addresses this on pages 11-13. It says that government employees aren’t invincible to employee discipline when speaking for the government, from (Garcetti v. Ceballos), but that specifically excluded teaching situations.
... the academic-freedom exception to Garcetti covers all classroom speech related to matters of public concern, whether that speech is germane to the contents of the lecture or not
[T]he public expression of ideas may not be prohibited merely because the ideas are themselves offensive to some of their hearers.
surreal delta
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/19/tech/apple-parler-app-store/index.html
why was it banned in the first place
pure jetty
why was it banned in the first place
They didn't moderate their shit
surreal delta
in regards to Apple guidelines?
surreal delta
meh
I don’t see a reason for Apple to have such strict guidelines
if people want to spam n word or whatnot let them stay in their echochambers
less trouble here
surreal delta
then it’ll be most spread out here
pure jetty
How
surreal delta
I don’t see why Apple should deplatform them
pure jetty
Facebook reddit YouTube Twitter etc all moderate their shit
And iirc parlor only got readded after commiting to better moderate their shit
surreal delta
I don’t know why parlor even attempted to go on Apple
pure jetty
And I don't think apple's policies are for hate as much as they are for violence
pure jetty
I don’t know why parlor even attempted to go on Apple
It's the second biggest phone market????
Would make sense an app who wants users makes an app for the 2 largest phone platforms
surreal delta
yeah but it seems inevitable to be deplatformed if it’s going to advertise as a “free speech” app
surreal delta
So they got deplatformed from Apple for the threats of violence, rather than anything else?
pure jetty
They got removed from the app store for a lack of moderating their platform which probably ultimately led to the capital insurrection
surreal delta
They seem to got back on?
are you referring to parler?
surreal delta
I checked and it doesn’t show up
surreal delta
No I just looked at what you said
foggy fern
Twitter
Twitter
dang that didn't include the video either
Apparently in this town the fee for getting licensed is still $0.50 since no one gives a shit about this law (it's like jaywalking, a law used to harass undesireds)
faint radish
yeah, I saw that. I didnt know you had to have a license for a bicycle anywhere
like wtf
foggy fern
I hope someone really does organize an effort to go register every bike in the town
faint radish
this sounds like lemonade stand licenses
foggy fern
Unless the City Council doesn't have a valid form (they had to have one at some point) the law compels them to, at their expense, provide a proper license tag
You give them $0.50, they spent a few dollars and someone's time getting a plate for you
Oh wow last updated in 2011
Wanna bankrupt a small town with their own bullshit law? 😛
pure jetty
Ah yes video starts in the middle of an interaction and cuts multiple times
foggy fern
foggy fern
Jury for Chauvin is done
They seem to be stalling on announcing it though
Which makes me think it's not guilty
Like, it takes some time to verify and bring everyone back in to the court room but I'm not sure it takes as long as they're saying it'll be
faint radish
why would they delay more if its not guilty?
foggy fern
Get everything ready for what happens after
Get the jurors out of the building, get the riot gear out, etc
faint radish
they've been ready I think
foggy fern
I thought it was weird they asked for help from Nebraska and Ohio
They don't border either of those states
mystic ermine
there's expectations set for riots either way, just, the question is is how bad is it gonna be, might not be all that bad if guilty, but, if aquitted, oh boy
foggy fern
It was more than one session
faint radish
Hey, OJ was not guilty in less than 4 hours
Obv different circumstances, but it’s not unheard of
I think the relatively quick decision does favor guilty
pure jetty
Going to be a shit show either way
faint radish
I think the relatively quick decision does favor guilty
Apparently this isn’t the case according to the lawyer guy on MSNBC. Short deliberations favor defense usually
faint radish
Why wait when you can speculate? It’s the internet. 😛
Gotta what-if all the scenarios
mystic ermine
judge is back
pure jetty
based jury
anyone reasonable appeals
but doubt especially with this public pressure he gets a successful appeal
faint radish
I don’t think that’s a good thing to have. Trial outcomes based on public pressure, but you are probably right.
mystic ermine
judge apparently said that they've already been given something to appeal on re maxines comments and other stuff going on
apparently one of the juries old houses where targeted by protestors
I don't think that this guy stood a chance at a fair trial, tbqh
and the judge pretty much shat on any request for extra protections too
not that there aren't already issues with how much this has been covered in the media over the past god knows how long
surreal delta
This is dumb
mystic ermine
defence also asked for the trial to be done out of town, was refused
foggy fern
Do they all reference a glove, bronco, etc?
faint radish
well, they reference him killing two people in some form usually
can be some funny ones
foggy fern
faint radish
Twitter
you gotta view hidden tweets on his threads
Twitter
pretty direct that one ^
foggy fern
Huh, he uses twitter to vlog
faint radish
yeah, a lot about his golf game
foggy fern
Twitter
faint radish
a reply from his first tweet
https://twitter.com/BigSon33/status/1140456366299107328?s=20
Twitter
Twitter
restive seal
Just saw this, brief search didn't show this come up https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/14/tennessee-passes-bill-letting-parents-opt-out-lgbtq-related-school-lessons/7219254002/
Just... wow
torn wadi
Didn't some states already have a opt out for sex ed?
restive seal
Sex ed is lacking in most places, with plenty of it being abstinence-only education which is just... ugh.
loud flax
restive seal
dusky raft
Both sex ed and mental health is lacking everywhere. Hell, it isnt a conservative/liberal state issue. And as much as I would like to say I know the solution, but health was never my favorite class.
I dont think promoting/banning LGBTQ topics is a good idea. BUT, I do not think its a stable topic no matter where it is.
restive seal
A stable topic? What do you mean?
dusky raft
Sex ed should focus on the aspects of reproduction, learning the biological functions of both male and female functions, STD and disease prevention. It should be up to the individual to explore based on said education and feelings. I think of LGBTQ more as a way of life than something the education system should actively promote.
austere parrot
ah yes, mentioning the mere fact that lgbtq people exist is active promotion 😱
meanwhile, people are gonna be lgbtq whether or not it's "promoted", so why censor that information?
"They are creating policies restricting the freedoms for students to be themselves biding with families that insist their heterosexual or cisgender children should feel comfortable in the school environment, essentially by never interacting with beliefs or people who are at odds with their own," Christiansen said.
💯
dusky raft
as i Said, I dont think banning is a good idea, it leads to worsening mental health issues for people affected.
restive seal
What would active promotion be? Conversion therapy to homosexuality?
I'm sure you don't mean it this way, but "actively [promoting lgbtq]" feels sort of like "I don't want kids to know this section of the population exists" - atleast when I see that sort of phrasing used by others talking about preventing those topics from coming up.
Is allowing same-gender prom dates "promoting" it in a problematic way? Because some folks view that as "pushing a gay agenda"
dusky raft
What I should have said is that sex ed should focus more on the reproduction aspect than on attractions and feelings. LGBTQ is pretty varied from what I have seen. It should be up to the person to explore and maybe seek assistance, from a specialist or neutral party.
Id say a general mental health class should also provide the needed tools for assistance
mental/behavioral health, knowing thats an issue in the US...
shy gulch
Reproduction is extremely easy to understand and learn. Reproduction by itself does not need an entire class dedicated to it. Sex is more then reproduction and the point of sex Ed is to not only to teach about reproduction but to help teens understand what feelings they might develop whilst growing.
If someone is attracted to the same gender they should understand why and what these feelings mean.
It’s really about helping teens understand the changes they are going through and what they are going to experience
This includes for a majority of teens being taught they might be attracted to same gender and that this is a normal feeling.
Ofc your views on homosexuality or sexuality in general might differ...
dusky raft
im neutral on it.
Of course, I think there should be more focus on mental health to make sure there is nothing else going on
@shy gulch My whole thing is let the teen mind go through its course, what they would feel at 11-13 may be different compared to 16-18.
tough cedar
i've heard that kids are apparently pretty good at establishing their identities from a fairly young age, so /shrug
dusky raft
Not really,
tough cedar
obv i've got no studies to back it up, could be totally made up but my own anecdotal experience affirms what i've seen other people say
austere parrot
mhm there's no tricking kids into being gay, chances are they already know by the time they're in middle school :0
yaknow with the whole onset of puberty thing
dusky raft
do we have any sort of non biased studies that actually looks overall on brain development and where a person gravitates?
tough cedar
i'm not that interested in the topic so i've never looked into it beyond what i've seen people say online ¯_(ツ)_/¯
dusky raft
I doubt that a brain is that concrete from the ages of 11-18
hell, age 25 is generally the age the brain is "fully developed"
tough cedar
i mean, there are tons of different milestones in brain development
whose to say that gender/sexual identity isn't one that is established early on?
dusky raft
I think there are many factors than just the brain setting the attraction level somewhere
tough cedar
like yea, the brain doesn't finish developing until 25, but we hit huge milestones all the way through that point
dusky raft
hormones play a role, along with social factors
hell, attractiveness between completely different groups of people with certain genetic markers are a thing.
faint radish
Isn't being attracted to someone you can't procreate with something (to once again personify evolution) something evolution would have tried to stamp out?
(pls dont take that statement as anything more than what it literally means 😦 )
austere parrot
one would think, but hey, it's another of nature's many mysteries 🔍 🔎 🔍
faint radish
well yes, one would think. Just shrugging it off as a "mystery" isnt an answer. Animals have existed for millions of years
it makes 0 sense to produce something that has no desire to procreate. that's why sex is pleasurable, so you want to do it
now, sex being pleasurable isn't a thing for every animal
sometimes its just instinctual
or well, maybe not pleasurable in the way we think of it
dusky raft
What I am trying to say is that the education system should make it open ended, but not make it a hardline policy to ban or promote LGBTQ ideas
austere parrot
well yes, one would think. Just shrugging it off as a "mystery" isnt an answer. ...
i mean, of course it's not an answer - i'm unaware of anybody with a conclusive answer. the fact is, it happens, has been happening, and likely will continue happening and nobody's really sure why ¯_(ツ)_/¯
lol the /shrug command botched my message
foggy fern
Her mom called the police, she was on her property and seemed to be being attacked by multiple people
I wonder how this works with Ohio's stand your ground law
faint radish
Are people saying what happened was wrong?
foggy fern
Yes
faint radish
really? If the video does indeed show a cop shooting someone who was about to stab someone else, what's the problem?
foggy fern
Imagine getting the shit kicked out of you by two people at your own house and when you try to defend yourself a cop shoots you to death
faint radish
was there any way for the cop to know that that was happening?
foggy fern
¯_(ツ)_/¯
faint radish
if a cop rolled up to a fight, and saw someone about to stab someone else...
just let it happen?
that can't be right
foggy fern
Shooting in to a crowd seems worse
faint radish
ok, but the cop hit who they were aiming for, maybe you can say, dont shoot at multiple people, but it wasn't some random bystander that was hit
that article doesnt link* the bodycam footage?
You cant use deadly force to defend yourself in any situation I dont think?
like you cant shoot someone if they trip you for instance
so I'd like to see how this girl was being attacked
foggy fern
The picture where they show she has a knife has her in a headlock
But it sounds like the body cam footage has a bunch of cuts and I can't find the actual video, just pictures of the police presenting the video
faint radish
oh, maybe they just showed it at a press conference and didnt release the raw video
foggy fern
The reporting around Ohio's stand your ground law only talks about guns, don't know if it would apply to this anyway
Legal or not this is still fucked up
faint radish
oh yeah, horrible situation
foggy fern
It's a teenager too
foggy fern
I wonder if multiple people called 911 or if she took the knife from one of the others
faint radish
the 911 call said it was for an attempted stabbing, which ofc isn't indicative of the actual situation
but it would make responding officers look for that as the threat initially
is there anything about her actually trying to stab, and the other person got her in a headlock to protect themselves? I don't think the law is favorable to people who disarm (take the knife) their assailants and then use it against them if they dont pose a threat after being disarmed 🤷♂️
but as per usual, a lot info in the first day is wrong
foggy fern
Yeah they aren't releasing the footage until tomorrow, this was just shown at the press conference
faint radish
so all speculation
foggy fern
No one gets their own copy until tomorrow
broken raven
im just wondering
lets say the whole black man killing thing hadn't happened
would this have still been on the news?
or would it have gone unnoticed
faint radish
oh yeah, its def amplified due to the current climate
foggy fern
Maybe? These randomly pop up
faint radish
well the media wants clicks, so they want stories that tie into the current story
foggy fern
Since George Floyd they've all been getting at least some coverage but before that you'd just have some randomly catch on in the news
Go to any big city though and they probably have a dozen they can think of for every one you've heard of
They just didn't catch on in the news or social media so the story went away before it went national
faint radish
There really aren't that many police shootings of unarmed people. 55 in 2020 (54 in 2019)
18 unarmed black people in 2020
foggy fern
I wonder if Philando Castile counted as armed for that statistic
faint radish
compared to 24 white pople, which is still disproportionate, but I think the media paints a picutre that there are 100sa lot more black people dying yearly
foggy fern
Well, the police are killing hundreds of black people every year
They're killing over 1000 people a year
faint radish
not unarmed people
broken raven
fuck politics man
foggy fern
I guess the 2nd amendment doesn't count when police are involved 😛
How many of those people shot at the cops?
faint radish
that isn't nearly the standard that should be used
foggy fern
It's the standard we use for soldiers
faint radish
when dealing with an unknown enemy sure.
but if police get a call that there is a guy with a gun threatening people, its different
you know who the bad guy is
foggy fern
Yeah, the cop 😉
faint radish
whereas in the military, it's not always clear who is the enemy
foggy fern
I just wonder how many of those are like Adam Toledo or the ones who have a gun in their pocket or glovebox but are still shot for no reason then justified after the fact
Seems like the more cameras we point at these situations the more often we learn the police narrative was total bullshit
faint radish
idk, this is from the WaPos police shooting database
foggy fern
The truth of the matter is the police have itchy trigger fingers and jump at their own shadow because that's how they've been trained
It's not like anything bad will happen to them if they get it wrong
Until today I'd say the worst that happens is they have to get a job in the next suburb over
dusky raft
you cannot blame the training 100%, there are other aspects, including the type of incident, and judgement of the officer in question
faint radish
My point is, stuff like
never-ending list of innocent people of color continue to be murdered
is really not smart to say
foggy fern
It's not just the training no, it's also the recruiting
Sometimes, you know, this country has too many guns and it's way too easy for the wrong kinds of people to get them so someone is going to get shot
But even when dealing with people with knives or guns police in other countries don't seem to need to shoot as much
dusky raft
which other countries?
foggy fern
On average police shoot 19 people a year in Canada vs ~1000 in the US, the US doesn't have 50x the population of Canada
faint radish
gun-related crime rates?
foggy fern
The news article I linked is about how cases where even with guns involved they didn't shoot anyone
faint radish
if there are "deadlier" crimes in the US, that would result in more "deadlier" interactions
and I'm guessing the gun-related crime rate in the US is higher than canada, which even if the same percentage of gun-related crime incidents in the US could be resovlved without shooting anyone, would still result in more instances of police shooting someone
(in addition to the population difference)
dusky raft
I do think there needs to be better training, and I think the state should be held responsible for failing to stand up to the quality of said training.
foggy fern
btw it depends on what you're trying to measure but it sounds like the answer is the US has about 9 times more gun crime
Canada, btw, is not doing all that great on that metric compared to Europe
They just look amazing compared to us
faint radish
so an 8.6:1 population times a 9:1 gun crime rate
if you just multiply those, 8.6*9*19 = 1463
(am I doing that right) US is under 1463
so taking into account population difference, and gun crime rate, we come in below canada
foggy fern
I don't know that you can just combine those numbers like that but sure, by that metric
US only has 3 times more guns though, interesting
3 times more guns, 9 times more gun deaths
Oh wait does that gun death stat include suicides?
It says "deaths due to gun violence" so probably not
faint radish
well what does that say? 3 times more guns, 9 times more deaths due to guns?
faint radish
violent gun deaths? what does that "violent" qualifier mean?
foggy fern
¯_(ツ)_/¯
faint radish
the suicide thing?
foggy fern
Probably to filter out suicides, yeah
faint radish
suicides are violent? do you need 2 people to be violent?
foggy fern
I don't think violent is a term you would normally apply to self harm
Wikipedia says gun violence does include suicide though
So... ¯_(ツ)_/¯
It can even include attempted suicide
So what you really need is gun murder rates
faint radish
I'd also want it per gun in the country right?
foggy fern
You have to figure out guns in the country separately and combine the two yourself
Either we got a lot worse between 2010 and 2017 or the 2017 number includes suicides
foggy fern
We probably got worse, the 2017 number is too low to include suicides
faint radish
or A might be what I wanted
foggy fern
Crime rate is just all crimes there, I think
faint radish
the logs are confusing me, but it looks linear on the deaths per gun graph
on graph A
foggy fern
It's measuring whether or not having an armed population stops purse snatchers or not
It's not linear, the axes are both logarithmic
Their trend line shows we have too many gun deaths for the number of guns we have but aren't that far off the norm
faint radish
yeah, I used "linear" incorrectly, I meant linear in the terms that if this was a linear graph, the US was close to what would be expected
as you just said
foggy fern
I still can't find specifics about the Ohio stand your ground law but a news article about loosening laws on carrying knives implies it would apply to them too
Not that I think such laws should exist
faint radish
you dont like stand your ground or castle laws?
foggy fern
Nope
You're usually covered in those situations anyway, if the force was justified
Those laws claim to just be clarifying that but always end up expanding what justified means
faint radish
that there is no duty to retreat from an attacker in any place in which one is lawfully present
I def agree with ^
which is what 30 of the 38 statues that have them say
I see it more of a natural right thing, than attempting to be a deterrent of crime
on other great news for the world...
https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1384726094310424577?s=20
Putin doing his Putin-y things
foggy fern
US pulled their ambassador from Russia
faint radish
when putin invades ukraine again, will the world do anything? I dont really think it will
there will be a bunch of bluster, and talk, and whatever
just like I dont see the US actually defending Taiwan when china tries to take it back
which I think is sad
foggy fern
Taiwan plans to turn themselves in to a failed country if China tries to invade
So all China will get out of it is pride, no economic or political benefit
faint radish
if 😆
that's the whole thing, pride
well not the whole thing, but its a big part of it already
start at 6:41
its the press conference + footage
holy crap
that happened SO FAST
it looked like everyone was just chilling, cop got out of the car, and then something rushes towards him, he turns to the right
turns back around and the girl with the black hoodie is about to stab the pink sweatshirt?
so the girl who was killed is wearing a black hoodie and jeans right? She is the one who knkocks down the other girl in shorts onto the sidewalk when the cop is turned to the right
am I missing something here, or did this go from 0 to 100 in like 1.5 seconds
k, not a black hoodie but a black shirt with an orange undershirt
k, I feel like I'm ranting, need someone else to watch it and sayin smth, its like 5 seconds long starting at 6:41
I do like how the guy who tried to kick the head of the other teenage girl on the sidewalk then said after the cop shot her, "she's just a kid" which is true, and tragic, but shouldn't really be coming from the guy who just tried to kick the head of another girl
Gonna @foggy fern cause you said you couldn’t find the video earlier.
faint radish
Thinking about it some more, the gun was pulled out and fired quickly in what looks much more like an instinctual response rather than having guns drawn for a while expecting to have to use it.
It really looks like the girl was about kill the other person with the knife tho. It wasn’t some small knife and it looks aimed at the upper body area
broken raven
it was fast
It was more of like instinct play
He saw someone about to be stabbed
and he drew and fired 3-4 shots
not 1, 3-4
the kind you would if you were scared
eager hawk
Yeah I watched it, viewer discretion is definitely advised. It was quick, and the cop will probably be acquitted since he did save the pink outfit girl from getting stabbed, and there really wasn't much time to think (at least I definitely wouldn't have). Obviously you have no idea what the context is in the clip, except that there's some violent domestic confrontations, but I would still hold to my personal belief that something as deadly as a gun was not necessary for use of force by police. A taser would have been the answer. I wonder what would've happened if the police arrived 10 seconds earlier, or 10 seconds later. Would have been completely different.
pure jetty
What would be cool is to make like a taser that charges in holster
broken raven
keeping it charged is the problem
pure jetty
And no snoopa that doesn't work
broken raven
Why not
pure jetty
bb guns don't stop people lmfao
Tasers overload the nervous system and well a gun is a gun
pure jetty
no
otherwise they'd be used
the person being shot with a bb isn't going to stop what they're doing
Will be overcome like a bee sting
mystic ermine
tasers take time to discharge and fail all the time
mystic ermine
officers in the UK aren't given weapons by default, stab vests are basically the defacto tool, but, I question how many "live" events that the UK police have to show up for which doesn't involve just sending in the SWAT vans
any live active attack will generally have SWAT vans sent in as they're the only sorta like commonly armed police force over here, the fact that guns are somewhat of a non issues over here does sorta like, help there as they're much less likely to come across a man with a gun, and in cases where a gun is suspected they generally don't send somebody in until later on
I think a common issue the UK has in regards to things like terror attacks that it shares with the US is that a lot of attacks are commited by people who are already known to security agencies beforehand
torn wadi
MFW we have unarmed police, but there is a solder with them in the car at all times.
Welcome to the border.
mystic ermine
I can't say that that is 100% the case, but, it seems like a common trend to see when some big incident does occur or we get some maniac with a machete
pure jetty
yeah with our bigger gun culture doesn't make sense to dispatch unarmed police
mystic ermine
back like 10 years ago or something, tasers also where a big misnomer with very few officers having them, generally requiring like a general callout to get somebody with a taser where if they suspect they need it, but, are becoming the norm
torn wadi
Well, you would expect less trigger happy people at least.
mystic ermine
I think that one of the things is how "excessive" our laws are, like, if somethings sole purpose is to cause harm, even if in a manner of self defence, 99% chance it's illegal
personal defence laws in the UK are somewhat seen as a joke over here
You get people on life in jail coz somebody broke into their house and they ended up stabbing the person or something, which, I don't entirely agree with, tbqh
pure jetty
Do they give the homeowner a duty to retreat or something?
mystic ermine
You're not allowed to use "excessive force", basically
torn wadi
No, you can harm them, but not kill them.
mystic ermine
what is deemed as excessive is basically on the judge
pure jetty
you guys don't have a standard definition?
mystic ermine
even sparking somebody else in the quest of self defence can end you up with a sentence
pure jetty
solely up to judge?
mystic ermine
it's circumstantial, basically
pure jetty
eek
broken raven
they dont carry guns here as well
mystic ermine
The common law defence of self-defence applies where the defendant uses necessary, reasonable and proportionate force to defend themselves or another from imminent attack.
broken raven
I would say shooting someone to stop them from stabbing you/other person is reasonable
mystic ermine
The issue is that determining what is neccessary, reasonable and proportionate is hard, especially as it basically completely discredits "in the moment" decisions
Not in the UK
I mean, ignoring that guns are illegal to own unless you have a license, but, the laws are so caveated that it really puts people off from stuff
Self-defence is a defence permitting reasonable force to be used to defend one's self or another.[1] This defence arises both from common law and the Criminal Law Act 1967.[2] Self-defence is a justification defence rather than an excuse.
if somebody breaks into your house with a knife, scares the living jesus out of you, you panic, shit bricks, run at then with a machete or a knife or whatever, that's not deemed "reasonable force", as you basically straight up went at them with a knife
pure jetty
Can you threaten them with a machete?
pure jetty
Ah okay
mystic ermine
I think that the nature of we don't have weapons and they don't have weapons deters most sorta like "in situ" robberies, most theft seems to occur during the day when people are out at work or if they're able to determine that a house is actually vacant, so these situations seem to be rare, but, when they happen once a year or so it sorta sparks the whole public feeling that self defence laws in the UK are fucking trash
torn wadi
I remember someone going to court here, due to a robber slipping and hurting themselves, because the watch your step sign was missing. No idea what the end result of that was here, since our media reporting is shit.
faint radish
I totally didn’t put two and two together and realize tasers don’t work instantly like a gun would. If that is the case, then yeah, a gun is in fact what you would use here.
You needed to 100% stop the girl from stabbing the other person, and a gun is the best tool for the job. It’s tragic, and sad ofc.
pure jetty
Probably could have been better aimed if anything
mystic ermine
it's a no win for the cops, really
they shoot somebody, they get screamed at for shooting somebody
they don't shoot somebody, somebody gets stabbed, cops get screamed at for not doing their jobs
pure jetty
Yeah people are gonna kinda point at any shooting no matter the context and complain
They also were spreading a lie that cops at the scene were saying blue lives matter when it was actually a bystander
mystic ermine
media only vets shit when vetting it benefits their cause
faint radish
And you wonder why more people aren’t on board with BLM
mystic ermine
I support the message, not the movement or the organisation
pure jetty
it's the problem with any vague decentralized movement
mystic ermine
standing in front of a car on blaze infront of a burning down building MOSTLY PEACEFUL PROTESTS
pure jetty
Which is why ACAB and Defund the Police are horrible messaging since they imply a meaning in the phrase as well as mean different things to different people
pure jetty
*standing in front of a car on blaze infront of a burning down building* MOSTLY ...
tbh most of the actual black people protesting were very peaceful
If you go back you can see the overwhelming majority of actual rioters were white morons
mystic ermine
The issue is that it completely detracts from the situation in hand and kills your credability
mystic ermine
and, yea, the whiteys running around are a huuuuge fucking part of the issue
pure jetty
wastes so much time to find common ground
mystic ermine
- Please tell me how in the quest for racial justice you feel the need to burn down stores and rob from the stores in the communities, often which are underserved by larger retailers, and wonder why retailers are generally eery on placing their stores in these areas which would potentially increase the cheap, 'good 'quality food NEEDED in these areas
- Please tell me how white people running around a cause without actually divesting in the issues people have which leads to all of this
My brains half gone so I think I misspelt that one
But, you have things like BLM who serve to "disrupt the nuclear family"
single parent households are a MAJOR marker in regards to children who end up going down the wrong path
faint radish
JRoy, people have to be in their camps. Everything someone “on my side” does is fine, and everyone else is literally Satan
30 years ago, the left and right agreed on 9/10 of the Top issues in the country, just differed on how to solve them. Now, 0/10 overlap.
mystic ermine
we lost the ability to talk
faint radish
I don’t think Trump caused it, so much as took advantage of it already happening
And probably sped it up
torn wadi
we lost the ability to talk
No. We lost the ability to listen.
mystic ermine
it's hard to work out why people think a certain way and how to solve the issue starts from a point of "you're a -ist, -phobic" whatever
well, i more meant conversation
But, yea, listening is a massive thing, as being dismissive to either side is too easy in this day and age
The one thing that pisses me off is the entire "if you vote right, you must believe X, Y, Z"
(same for left, too)
faint radish
Having only 2 big parties contributes to that, the US really has 4 parties trying to masquerade as 2
Like, Joe Manchin and AOC in the same party? No way
Even AOC and pelosi
mystic ermine
I see both sides sorta commonly pull the, "all rights are the same" meanwhile I commonly see messages in here from a seemingly select few in here who pull the whole "if you're right you must believe X, Y, Z and believe it"
and, yea, both parties have major infighting right now
pure jetty
AOC is extremely progressive sitting in like a +40 district
mystic ermine
and I find it funny that both sides act like theirs is on the way to being resolved and the other party is a second away from drowning
mystic ermine
yea, she's like, ez win, she could probs murder a puppy and people would still vote
faint radish
I understand there aren’t that many, but they are driving the narrative it seems. And it still doesn’t negate the fact that they are very different ideologically, but are in the same party.
mystic ermine
but, she seems to think that all others are looking for a progressive dem to run their states, and acts surprised that other dems try to distance themselves from her and her donaions
faint radish
It makes sense from a fundraising perspective, wanting an establishment to back you, etc
And Joe Manchin is certainly a conservative Democrat, not just your run of the mill liberal
mystic ermine
as somebody who leans right on some issues and left on others, I think that the biggest thing we need to learn is that it's not you vs me, it's us vs them
pure jetty
AOC still wants democrat values just pushed to a more extreme where as joe is being moderate because that's what the people who elected him wants
Still not convinced more than 2 parties in the US helps when we have first past the post
mystic ermine
I think a good thing for a 3rd party would be to get enough seats to scare the two
issue is that getting enough seats to scare them anywhere is basically a no go
each election cycle over here and there, people often wanna vote 3rd party but it's like "if you vote 3rd, you're letting the commies win", "if you vote 3rd, you're letting an evil cuntlord win"
mystic ermine
each year is not the year to vote 3rd party, and I think that to some, trump represented as close to a 3rd party as much as possible
faint radish
Well, if you have a substantial number of people in other parties, then you have to co-operate to pass legislation in congress
mystic ermine
Well, yea, that's part of the issue, and there's generally 0 media coverage outside of the big two and theres generally very little to base on
faint radish
Cause one party never has over half
pure jetty
Any real 3rd parties would probably only help republicans
mystic ermine
I got a book of mayoral canidates other day, and generally they're in a place where they're all sorta preaching for many of the same goals, and, you don't know who really is actually gonna get the job done
I moved here years ago, so, I don't wanna unset the status quo of what works here
But, I mean, since I've moved here year on year crime seems to be in the rise
somebody was shot across the road from my appartment near a school other year
and, it's like, I get it, people make their party alignments, but, there comes a point where I gotta ask, is it working?
faint radish
Wasn’t modern policing invented in Britain?
Twitter
mystic ermine
I believe so with our met police
faint radish
Well, clearly British police came from slave patrols in America according to NHJ. You didn’t know that?😛
mystic ermine
seems legit
Like, the met police is basically londons thing, over here we have the merseyside police I think it was
They all generally sorta like seem to follow the whole same line up, and the biggest thing is to have co-ordinated efforts and policies vs the disoganised mess we used to have
pure jetty
omfg the slave patrol shit is so cringe
america was founded on slaves, do we abolish America and start over?
or maybe we can just reform it?
crazy talk!
faint radish
At least some of the BLM movements prominent members are self-declared Marxists. So I think yes, they would like to redo America
mystic ermine
See, there defo needs to be reforms to the system
mystic ermine
the public needs to have more of a say in stuff, imho
Like, the longer the current system goes on where there is an obvious disconnect between politicians and us normies is staggering
and yet people will often try to identify with a politician and preach "they're like us, they listen to us and support our cause!"
(only to generally be shocked when there is one issue that the politician doesn't agree on or one issue which the polician refuses to stand up/out for)
it's crazy
I think part of why trump was loved is coz he stood as close to a 3rd party as many could see possible