No?
#politics
near glen
Idk about the US, but in germany there are a bunch of dum laws that don't make sense anymore
pure jetty
iirc congress tried to count them all and there was so much they couldn't figure out which ones were still on the book
pure jetty
i mean the law seems to be just 1900s standard paranoia with hypnotism
as far as i can tell it doesn't seem to religious in nature
near glen
Yeah, the argumentation against the new law that makes it legal was religious
mystic ermine
It takes RESEARCH for this
Like, don't get me wrong, research is nice
but, like, you LITERALLY go in, buying whatever, thinking, I HOPE I GET X
pure jetty
i like overwatch's system
you can get lootboxes via playing the game
and you get credits which you can use to unlock them via playing the game
foggy fern
If you could prove they're banning yoga for religious reasons then they're doing their job, schools aren't supposed to practice religion
If it's not for religious reasons then there isn't really anything to say about it, they ban/allow things, that's a part of their job
I'm not sure there is any room in there for "this isn't religious but it's banned to punish people of a certain religion"
eager hawk
https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-sheet
This gives a fair overview for arguments why voter ID should not be implemented
dusky raft
then we fix the ID system
democrats are in control
they should be able to do it
but still, the ACLU's points are utter bullshit
you NEED an ID for a lot of things
unless 11% of US citizens are being paid under the table and without government oversight
and a lot of citations provided by the ACLU are published studies of very small pools of people.
pure jetty
please tell me what you think you NEED an ID for
the ACLU is not a utter bullshit organization
dusky raft
you need an id for quite a few things, driving and getting a job are some examples
pure jetty
not everyone drives
and i do not know of a job that having a drivers licenses was a requirement
dusky raft
pretty much all places I worked needed a drivers license/state ID
to prove that I am a US citizen
pure jetty
a social security card pretty much does that
dusky raft
not really
pure jetty
clearly we've worked totally different jobs
pure jetty
anyone authorized to work has an SSN
that can include people on visa's but they're authorized to work
unless you're working with jobs restricted by national security there is no reason an ssn isn't the minimum required
that's literally all I've been required to give ever
tough cedar
yeh, the two places i worked i think ssn was good enough too
visual topaz
Mmm yeah
dusky raft
yeah
foggy fern
Of course you only had to do that when you got hired, that could have been years ago
11% probably also includes all the people who had one expire and haven't had time or a reason to get a new one yet
Kind of like less than 5% unemployment is considered full employment due to churn, there is probably some number this will basically never go below
small root
@pure jetty my job that I’m starting in a month is requiring I bring my SSN card and a drivers license, or a passport
In addition to filling out an I-9
I think that’s standard
eager hawk
Have i shared this with you guys yet?
https://www.theflipside.io/
pure jetty
I'd rather figure it out for myself
not really that hard to source primary material and come to your own opinion
eager hawk
not really that hard to source primary material and come to your own opinion
true, but not all people have all the time to accurately sift through all the primary material
upshot NYT articles are always awesome
pure jetty
true, but not all people have all the time to accurately sift through all the pr...
You're always gonna believe one side over another and it's hard to decipher the truth from 2 often polar opposite statements to the point that you end up sticking with the side you trust
foggy fern
I'm confused, Senator Wicker was on Meet the Press this morning talking about how they got the FAST Act done under Trump so his administration's infrastructure goals weren't a failure and/or a joke
One problem with that though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixing_America's_Surface_Transportation_Act
It was passed by Congress on December 3, 2015, and President Barack Obama signed it on December 4.
foggy fern
It was in effect for 5 years so it was a thing while Trump was in office
But the question was basically "you don't want this infrastructure bill, you failed to pass anything on this for 4 years, what do you want?"
And he challenged the idea of them getting nothing done for 4 years by bringing up FAST
near glen
!ban @loud hedge spam
feral hearthBOT
:raised_hands: Banned Ecology#4540 (spam) [1 total infraction] -- MiniDigger#3086.
drifting arch
inb4 boris implements vaccine passports and this channel blows up
dapper veldt
Lmao
I just want him to close schools again but ik that's not gonna happen
So the truth is that we really are gonna have to do gcses next yr
:(
near glen
like everybody else did before you, lol
dapper veldt
yh lol true
But they did get cancelled for 2 yrs in a row
Just hoping for a third one
drifting arch
dapper veldt
>2 years in a row
Last year and this yr
near glen
Mfw at some point trump was the cause of 3% of all wire fraud claims in the US
"Several bank representatives who fielded fraud claims directly from consumers estimated that WinRed cases, at their peak, represented as much as 1 to 3 percent of their workload. An executive for one of the nation’s larger credit-card issuers confirmed that WinRed at its height accounted for a similar percentage of its formal disputes.
That figure may seem small at first glance, but financial experts said it was a shockingly large percentage, considering that political donations represent a tiny fraction of the overall United States economy."
restive seal
inb4 a "both sides" / whataboutism in reaction to Trump once again being a scammer.
pure jetty
man his base is something else
half of me thinks they're just plain braindead
other half of me thinks they've been brainwashed to shit and back
restive seal
There's an unending stream of BS thrown at anyone who tunes into fox or a sinclair station.
I had a relative tell me this weekend that they just know Trump was kicked off twitter by "the government" who is suppressing our speech.
Where do you think they're getting these ideas? Because it certainly isn't something they arrived at from their own thoughts.
dusky raft
looks like oracle v. google is over, java API seems to be fair use
pure jetty
Where do you think they're getting these ideas? Because it certainly isn't somet...
yeah 100%
its just like man these people could benefit from a large dose of occam's razor
restive seal
If they have the time or brain power to think about it, sure they can see the stuff they're being fed is nonsense. But it's going to come down to not thinking. Causes will vary from person to person, from limited time, to limited brain power, to lack of education in critical thinking.
pure jetty
i was gonna say that but then like if they're conditioned to the point that they genuinely think everyone else is lying to them you need to like 1 on 1 sit down with each person
restive seal
Have tried that. Then they go back to watching their sinclair clips and hopping over to fox news and progress is ereased.
and suddenly months later they're mentioning Hillary in goddamn 2019 as someone to blame for something current.
eager hawk
If y'all are interested in actively talking to brainwashed people I'd recommend joining the Politics Discord server :)
pure jetty
dedicated politics discord servers are pretty bad
any dedicated political community tends to always pool into their own common ground
eager hawk
yeah, there's a lot of people who are brainwashed people/trolls but it's nice being able to find some people in there who are willing to go into fair discourse. either way it's been a good outlet for me to work on my argumentative skills
eager hawk
then what are we?
this is arguably a really chill channel with sane people who actually look at evidence and come to fair conclusions, compared to the dedicated politics discord i've been on lmao
eager hawk
lol how does something like that not blow up
it almost did when there was a Nick Fuentes AMA lmao
shy gulch
man his base is something else
It’s funny knowing most these people who had their money stolen won’t even care considering how much they love Trump.
I’ve never seen grown adults so obsessed with a person
Equivalent to social media stans but as grown functioning adults
pure jetty
i don't think its them loving him per say
i've seen a few like that sure
but i think the majority just think that he's the only one not lying to them
shy gulch
Trump could literally shoot someone in the he middle of Times Square and he would still have millions of supporters
pure jetty
he used that example yeah
but idk would depend
like i said i think a majority are just brainwashed that he is the only one telling the truth
shy gulch
Right yeah
He is impressive in the way he can gain so much trust from his supporters
It’s beyond politics tho
I know so many people who are oddly just obsessed with the guy
foggy fern
He wants them to give him money and then shut up
He has gone above to beyond to ensure they can give him money
shut vine
Yeah, prior to the recent change it was 9-5 M-F/9-4 Sat. The new law actually allows polling centers to open on Sundays for early voting now which was not allowed before.
Also there was an additional mandatory Saturday I think.
foggy fern
Apparently they're listing blood clots as a (very rare) potential side effect for the AstraZeneca vaccine in the EU
near glen
All different regulators have been going back and forth on this for weeks
Here you can't get AZ anymore if you are under 60, you now get biontech
Which is funny, because it was the over way around earlier
foggy fern
This is breaking news, like they're probably still talking at their press event where they announced it
near glen
At this point I really don't give a shit about these stories anymore
Just get me something, I don't care
foggy fern
Heck after refreshing that page there is a chance you didn't even see the same article I did when I linked it 😛
near glen
Half my friends got all kinda vaccines already
foggy fern
They're editing furiously as they read more of the press release and/or hear more Q&A
near glen
Cause they working in med stuff or schools
near glen
You too early to get it as part of ref, right?
When you going to start your ref?
Two friends of mine got it that way, they start their ref in may
Apeprently we getting 40m doses of biontech this quarter so stuff should get faster now?
Idk
It's not our logistics
foggy fern
We're on track to reach herd immunity in the US sometime between May and July depending on how many people get infected
July is when we get there just with vaccinations
It changes
near glen
I doubt I can get my first dose before summer
foggy fern
My grandma believes most of what OANN and Facebook tell her but she still got the vaccine
foggy fern
She said screw it, I'm 75 so if they want to track me sitting in my house all day or going to gamble I don't care
near glen
Logistically that's no problem for us, we organize vaccination against the flu each year
But like, that's endlevel capitalism, if my company can get me the vaccine before my government
foggy fern
Basically they won't be tracking her long and she doesn't do anything worth tracking so even if she believes the tracking part she is willing to do it for the chance to not get sick
near glen
Wat
foggy fern
I think a lot of people will be like that
They're having fun LARPing the Q/Bill Gates stuff but when they vaccine is offered to them they'll get it
near glen
Anyways, let's speak about smth fun
Did you see that signal will include micro transactions for some shit trash Coin?
Like, not even proper coins like bc or eth
It's literally some trash Coin
foggy fern
bitcoin and ethereum are too expensive to use
foggy fern
All of them are afaik, unless the coin just isn't worth anything
near glen
They single handely ruined their rep yesterday with that move
Like, the coin they used is literally just a scam, hosted by some cayman island company
foggy fern
Lightning kind of helps with bitcoin (not enough for it to be a replacement for traditional payment systems, not even close) and Ethereum is working on things but they aren't there yet
misty herald
Oh my god i didn't know ethereum was over 1k
last time i looked it was 200 dollars and i was debating buying it or not
foggy fern
Guess I missed this with all the other stuff going on with the election https://twitter.com/existentialfish/status/1323752032000450570
near glen
wait
those answers look sane?
oh this is general election polls
not fox news viewer poll
that makes sense then 😄
foggy fern
Yeah but they try to tell everyone the US is a conservative country and at times I even believe it
But it just has conservative leaders due to shitty voting systems, the people are somewhat left of center
(left of center according to the US system, probably right of Merkel)
near glen
Merkel is left of her party, so idk how that would relate ^^
This is fun
Click for a vid of vdL's reaction
Fuck turkey I guess
restive seal
The DEFECTOR one is just fabulous
shy gulch
Not surprised that shit exists lmao
near glen
As said earlier, a significant amount of the credit cart disputes of america have been caused by that website last year
smoky hedge
Lmao I can't even take the Australian PM seriously at this point
"We will take advice into heavy consideration and won't jump at shadows"
"We've called this press conference to talk about advice we were given 15 minutes ago"
pure jetty
Biden gun executive order today;
- make DIY gun making illegal
- something with background checks (i didn't catch that part)
- further regulate pistol stability devices
- now subject to national firearm act
- give states incentive to implementing red flag laws
- new AFT (Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Bureau) director (hasn't been one since 2015)
he's also suggesting a bunch of congressional legislation today for background check loopholes
dusky raft
I thought DIY guns were already illegal
unless its like craft brewing, which is you cant sell it
pure jetty
not federally at least
DOJ is also;
- directing the ATF to conduct multiple modern studies on gun trafficking
- expanding ATF firearm definition within 30 days to include DIY gun kits
- classifying pistols with certain stability braces as short barrel rifle within 30 days
- publish model red flag laws within 60 days for states to build on top of
- increase funding ($1B) for communities and social programs to prevent gun violence
near glen
Wooo, progress
pure jetty
shy gulch
Im avoiding all my conservative friends/peers because I dont wanna hear the bs from the right about the gun law reform
All positive change imo
pure jetty
these changes aren't really the stuff republicans yell about too much too
just kinda common sense
vivid sentinel
So this guy leaks full personal details of a trans teen and is now arguing on national TV talking about how trans people dont exist
poland is a lost cause
The banner thing technically translates to "child" but teen is probably a more suitable term
shy gulch
these changes aren't really the stuff republicans yell about too much too
That should be the case. Rational people wouldn’t want people making guns in their shed and gun identification to stay as shit as it is.
near glen
poland is a lost cause
Water is wet
shy gulch
They find away
foggy fern
unless its like craft brewing, which is you cant sell it
I think that's the case, there is a law about requiring serial numbers at least
Of course that part of the law was badly written and doesn't properly grandfather in gun made before the law went in to effect but it's only been enforced as if that's how it was written because no one wants to get it struck down
brisk cradle
Now that is user-hostile.
But it is a practice the GOP undertakes now because user-hostile design that charges people more are a favorite of GOP donors.
Also, yay Biden did a thing on guns. It's still too little, any real fix has to involve Congress, and the GOP would simply filibuster the bill if Manchin doesn't say "no"
After all, the GOP protects every American's God-given and Constitutionally-protected right to one (1) school shooting
Let's not forget their fetishization of far-right terrorists, something that has since spread to other right-wing parties internationally.
pure jetty
Also, yay Biden did a thing on guns. It's still too little, any real fix has to ...
idk i think they could come to a deal on at least universal background checks
they'd need to be willing to balance a republican policy tho
but universal background checks aren't unpopular among general population like most other gun policy
restive seal
they'd need to be willing to balance a republican policy tho
I'd like to reference the ACA negotiations here, where by the end we were looking at a republican healthcare plan, and they still came out against it and spent the next ten years promising to dismantle it.
pure jetty
i mean the ACA was still amazing, much better than what we had before
restive seal
HR3962 - basically romneycare 😛
pure jetty
lul
restive seal
i mean the ACA was still amazing, much better than what we had before
It was an improvement, sure, but diluting it for the republicans didn't get their votes.
"Meet in the middle" says the man in bad faith.
You take one step forward, he takes one step back.
"Meet in the middle" says the man in bad faith.
pure jetty
sure it wasn't ideal
but I would much rather take a politically viable policy than none
unlike the force the vote bs
restive seal
force the vote bs?
pure jetty
how they wanted to force the vote on the $15 min wage like it would magically make it pass
restive seal
I don't think they thought it would magically make it pass.
pure jetty
I don't think they thought it would magically make it pass.
some did
others wanted to purity test
eager hawk
Biden gun executive order today;
* make DIY gun making illegal
* something with...
RIP to 3D printed guns lol
eager hawk
I was expecting the politics server to talk more about todays gun legislation, but it turns out they prefer to continue to spew anti-black sentiments 
shut vine
how they wanted to force the vote on the $15 min wage like it would magically ma...
The idea behind force the vote, at least the idea of the person who coined it, was to expose those in favor of it and not in favor of it actually.
shut vine
I was expecting the politics server to talk more about todays gun legislation, b...
FYI, Discord has banned people who belong to servers like that just for being there, usually the do whole server nuke.
pure jetty
The idea behind force the vote, at least the idea of the person who coined it, w...
yeah purity testing
really dumb idea
ofc some dems wouldn't be in favor of it
it just isn't a good econ policy
shut vine
Yeah he believes it would be almost unanimous.
pure jetty
i don't understand why its so hard for people to understand that not everywhere in america is the most progressive place
shut vine
The idea is based on a faulty premise anyway in my opinion.
It assumes the wage hike is good, and people voting against it are bad.
shut vine
i don't understand why its so hard for people to understand that not everywhere ...
Actually, this is the message he kinda sending in my opinion. People think they've elected progressives, but most who think that have been tricked.
Not specifically about this, but forcing the vote would "expose" that.
pure jetty
well i wouldn't say that
it feels like progressives think all dems should be progressive at all costs
when some if not most are actually in very moderate districts
voting yes on a policy like $15 min wage could lead to them getting just replaced by a moderate republican
highly progressive dems just don't win elections in most of america
even when they have massively more funding
shut vine
Oh yeah I agree
austere parrot
how they wanted to force the vote on the $15 min wage like it would magically ma...
yea that tactic was a really dumb dead end and im glad nobody in congress actually went through with it, but no, #ForceTheVote was about Medicare For All, not a $15 minimum wage
austere parrot
voting yes on a policy like $15 min wage could lead to them getting just replace...
if voters want a republican, then maybe they should just elect one then? ¯_(ツ)_/¯
i don't like the idea that democrats should just sit on their hands and do nothing just to appease republicans
shut vine
I mean, politicians will do whatever or say whatever they can to get elected.
pure jetty
elected officials should abide by their constituents
not people who cry on twitter
it would be political suicide to go against your constituents as they will just not elect you
mystic ermine
somebody I watch said it good before
The issue these days is that you're often not electing people who stand for your area
shut vine
Yeah, that's how democracy is meant to work generally. You vote for things the majority want, and ignore radicals.
mystic ermine
But, more somebody who wants to run on federal issues
pure jetty
for someone like joe manchin, he's in a very moderate district where stuff like M4A and $15 min wage isn't very popular
and could split the vote and cause a republican to be elected in the future
mystic ermine
and so, they attract money across the entire state to support their campaign, even if local electors literally never see them in the streets
mystic ermine
Like, it doesn't matter how many people in their local district supports them as they can pull in the cash to be able to throw their adverts and stuff everywhere, and so the little guy tryna raise up like "no, these policies are bad and don't look after our local district" are completely overshadowed
pure jetty
that generally doesn't even work tho
there are countless campaigns where the person with the most money looses
mystic ermine
Well, yea, but it's a massive uppercut to those smaller parties who struggle to get their voice out
when the media flocks over the big guy, who's gonna see the little one
pure jetty
local elections don't really get that much coverage in the first place
even on local tv stations
rare that you see anything about state reps/senators
mystic ermine
We have many of the same sorta issues over here, I'm in a really strong labour city, labour because of some drama going back to the thatcher years, and, well, tory party can get fucked too, and, our mayor literally just sorta like, got aressed and questioned for something, and it just adds on to the labour parties yeeeaaars of preaching for all and looking like shit
pure jetty
most of the voting people do for reps/senators is at the very least "they're the same party as me" or if they did a little bit of research beforehand
but what people notice is when they make votes against things they are against
AOC is in a stupidly blue district so she can vote on whatever
mystic ermine
Yea, which is one of the many joyous issues as many people really don't understand all that a person stands for and how much what they're promising is actually viable
pure jetty
but for stuff like manchin he's gotta stay pretty safe
mystic ermine
We had a bus running down the entire UK saying that we spent 350M per week on the EU, why not fund our NHS with that, and people thought that they where planning to shove all that cash towards the NHS, and it's like, well, no
cos that weekly cash has gotta pay for all the stuff we miss out on from the EU
and, yea, and some of the joy is that AOC doesn't see that not as many states are progressive as her state is
Like, some dems last I knew where blaming AOC for basically putting them much closer to the edge of losing or even causing them to lose
austere parrot
as if NY is a paragon of progressivism heh
mystic ermine
and apparently some get scared when she donates to their campaign and such
austere parrot
with people like gov. Cuomo in charge
pure jetty
well her district is
austere parrot
ye
pure jetty
majority of ny tho
mystic ermine
NYC is crazy blue afaik
mystic ermine
outside of the city it tends to be a bit more red
austere parrot
it is
pure jetty
NY state is more moderate
but yeah the justice dems tend to foster a lot of harmful messaging for the dem party
mystic ermine
i live in this weird area where our uni is sorta positive internionally so we get a lot of good stuff, but, am not too sure I wanna live here for another 5 year or whatever
pure jetty
altho it seems like AOC doesn't do it as much as the others
mystic ermine
I think both parties are having a sorta like massive rift in the middle of them
pure jetty
she even got flack from terminally online lefties
mystic ermine
with the GOP you got the trumpettes and the RINOs, with the dems you got the progressives and the moderates at each other
both sides say that the other side is imploding
is all fun
pure jetty
yeah each side is pushing more moderates to either edge of an extreme
mystic ermine
thing is that being more of a centre leaning person, both parties are just shit, sometimes you get the odd guy who pops up and looks kinda good in some aspects but turns out to be a total shitlord
foggy fern
$15 minimum wage is a progressive policy?
pure jetty
of course it is
pure jetty
it all depends how the question is asked
of course someone who doesn't understand the consequences of such an action would support them getting paid more
hell, even if they do it they may still support it lmfao
foggy fern
Even the worst projection I've seen that uses hard numbers suggests 1 million jobs will be eliminated but (forget exact number) millions more will be raised out of poverty
So it's a mixed bag kind of thing
When told that “raising the minimum wage should lift some families out of poverty, but government economists also expect it could eliminate some low income jobs, potentially making some families worse off,” 55% of respondents said they supported it.
pure jetty
still misleading
the big companies: amazon, walmart, etc. are going to be the ones that can afford such a minimum wage by cutting into their profits
foggy fern
Amazon and Walmart are already paying that much I think
foggy fern
I think Walmart was aiming for an average rather than a minimum
pure jetty
small biz is going to suffer however (restaurants, grocery, others will small margin)
minimum wage is always better when adjusted to cost of living per state (ideally per town but that's not realistic)
foggy fern
You can't use "think of the guy worth $500,000" as a defense for why they should be allowed to pay wages so low their employees need government assistance
pure jetty
having federal intensive for states to follow some formula to set their minimum wages to a fair level is a good idea too
pure jetty
You can't use "think of the guy worth $500,000" as a defense for why they should...
government assistance is good tho
foggy fern
Sure, it would be better if it was using some formula calculated in a non-partisan way and area dependent
I bet that'd be around $15 on the low end though 😛
pure jetty
expanding means tested social programs is a much better idea than smashing a giant sledgehammer on econ policy
foggy fern
Said formula would also likely grow yearly unless they were idiots so this wouldn't be an ongoing problem to try to solve
pure jetty
you don't solve these kinds of issues with minimum wage, you do it with tax policy
foggy fern
Charge the business for the government services their employees use?
pure jetty
sure
increase taxes on the rich
small biz already can pay less in taxes than bigger companies
mystic ermine
Minimum wage is an icky one, especially when some of the industries which are primarily on minimum wage generally are some of the easiest to automate
Like, imho, I think that some "more agreeable" system would be to allow things like new businesses the opertunity to pay less, or at least offer incentives to help those without much experience to get their teeth in the game
foggy fern
Sure, some jobs will be lost to streamlining and automation if you make labor cost more
mystic ermine
bearing in mind that once you're paying $15 an hour it's generally more closer to 20 after you consider everything else
foggy fern
Unless you want to implement UBI though we need businesses to pay enough for people to survive
pure jetty
throwing raw money at people isn't how you solve things
it's also politically viable
means
tested
social
programs
are
the
solution
foggy fern
I think everyone can agree having the government (several layers of it even) paying out various subsidies with various rules is not as efficient
foggy fern
Means tested social programs is just UBI with more steps 😛
pure jetty
the U in UBI is universal
jeff bozo doesn't need UBI
why would you spend federal dollars on that
if that's not what you mean, then don't say UBI
foggy fern
Because it's probably cheaper to just send it to everyone and collect it back as taxes from rich folks than it is to implement means testing
pure jetty
thats so lazy
mystic ermine
Our minimum wage is basically equiv to like $12.25 in the US
pure jetty
and its not easier to collect it back via taxes
just don't send them the fucking money in the first place
and means tested programs are more politically viable than a UBI
mystic ermine
Yea, but, where do you draw the line is the issue
foggy fern
All of our systems are already means tested so I guess we're done then?
mystic ermine
it's much easier to just not draw one and ensure that you collect much more in taxes
foggy fern
Or do you mean a sliding scale instead of cutoffs?
pure jetty
yeah i like "phase outs" (for lack of better words) better
you shouldn't instantly lose benefits just because you make $1 over the cutoff
mystic ermine
issue is is drawing that line
I see many "well to do" programs like that where the line slowly shifts towards the bread line
pure jetty
also I think a public option for healthcare should be given to those who cannot afford to on their current salary
mystic ermine
Issue I had in my family, there was days that having bread in the cupboard became a premium
pure jetty
fuck m4a, give me means tested healthcare
mystic ermine
m4a makes a lot of sense and could save a good chunk of change, imho
the only issue is that that "good chunk of change" needs to come from sane dealing
pure jetty
how, if you can afford private insurance, why should the government spend money on you?
mystic ermine
I don't see the point of m4a if it just gives medical providers who are already ripping the shit out of everybody
pure jetty
a means tested system also means we get to keep private healthcare
mystic ermine
Ideally it would be opt out, care providers could still offer private coverage or you pay more into the public system
pure jetty
which is more politically viable
mystic ermine
Issue is that you don't fix the real issue of private healthcare which is all the "discounts"
Pros and cons of the NHS is that we get cheaper medication than the US does
But, at the same point, all the fancy new drugs don't come to the UK for tiiime...
pure jetty
well medication isn't cheap
R&D is a real cost
either your government or the US healthcare system in general is footing the bill
mystic ermine
Yea, but take insulin
that shit costs like a couple of bucks for a vial
yet, pricing of it can be in the hundreds
pure jetty
right but do you think insulin has had no advancements in the past decade?
mystic ermine
I get it, companies gonna earn some dosh to keep the labs running, but, ddaaamn
foggy fern
The federal government is already the one footing the bill for most medical advancements
mystic ermine
The thing is that often the insurance companies already get a discount
so, the real winner is the insurance companies
foggy fern
The companies just get to patent it at the end
pure jetty
insulin is constantly evolving, it's not the same as it was a decade a ago
you can get generic insulin really cheap but its not the latest and greatest
mystic ermine
many health providers basically offer insurance companies a discount
foggy fern
Health insurance is why those discounts exist 😛
mystic ermine
that discount basically is only between the provider and the insurance company, that does not help the end user with any of that as they don't see it
there's many fun stories of people getting a bill for like 13k, "i don't have insurance", and the bill drops to like a few k tops
foggy fern
Before they'd just have "this is the price" but all the insurance people wanted to be able to prove they were worth something so they collude with the providers to jack up the price then immediately give everyone various % off depending on how many golf trips you take them on
It also lets them charge a shitload to Medicare since they pay a flat 80% of the listed price, no negotiation
pure jetty
again, it costs billions of dollars to bring a drug to market
foggy fern
So the administrators all get to look useful and make lots of money and the federal government gets the shaft
And people without insurance who don't know how to negotiate get the shaft too
mystic ermine
Yea, but the health care providers don't even get the majority of what they often charge
so the end user gets shafted with an insurance bill for X under the notation that the insurance provider paid 100%
pure jetty
sure but to say insurance is doing nothing is misleading
mystic ermine
or, well, paid what they said they paid
foggy fern
Insurance is doing worse than nothing
mystic ermine
yea, it's inflating prices needlessly and offering the insurance providers a good buck
foggy fern
I'm not even sure why this stuff is legal, isn't it illegal if you run a store to run an "80% off sale" but raise the price 5x the day before so the sale is actually just the normal price?
Or is that level of consumer protection something only other countries have, I can never remember
mystic ermine
I thiiink trump apparently wanted to pass something which required them to pass the discount over essentially
foggy fern
Yeah but the healthcare industry is one of the top donors and top lobbyists
The only reason we got the ACA is because it still mostly keeps the profits up for those folks and it placated the masses for a while so they didn't push for M4A
If you let things keep getting worse eventually you get a bunch of people like Ocasio-Cortez and Sanders in office who aren't beholden to such groups and then they pass M4A, gotta push that a decade or two down the line so you can keep getting your bonuses and maybe the pendulum will swing the other way by then
It kind of did too, see Trump
pure jetty
Cortez and Sanders can't just pass m4a
biden couldn't if he wanted to
you need support from congress
foggy fern
If things get bad enough populism takes over
foggy fern
Then you have to hope it's your brand of populism and you get Trump or Reagan instead of FDR or LBJ
They'd rather give ground on minor things or at least make it appear they are to relieve the pressure
pure jetty
populism isn't always a good thing
foggy fern
Thus we get the ACA which while helpful to a lot of people is also a massive gift to the healthcare industry
Populism is rarely a good thing
pure jetty
the general public doesn't know the best solution for things
foggy fern
But unless you actually fix things people believe are wrong with their lives or their government you end up with populism
pure jetty
maybe
i think we're on a road to fix things
i'd say QOL in america has improved over time
i don't see it dropping off
mystic ermine
AND PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES ARE GETTING ALONG JUST FINE
foggy fern
Eh, people get access to shinier toys but I don't think they're better off now than they were in the 70s
Like, technology and such has led to general improvements but the basics got harder
Rent, food, transportation, medical costs, education, etc
pure jetty
all of those sound like things that can be fixed with means tested social programs!
eager hawk
FYI, Discord has banned people who belong to servers like that just for being th...
You're saying that all 50k members on the server could get their account banned? 0_o
shut vine
You're saying that all 50k members on the server could get their account banned?...
I mean that Discord in recent history has blanket banned servers and every user in them for violation of their terms of service.
If a server gets nuked, chances are all users in there will be nuked too.
mystic ermine
just create a furry server, apparently they love those
foggy fern
jeez, the end of the piece though
Gaetz has not been charged with a crime, and Gaetz’s congressional office declined to comment directly for this story.
Instead, a representative from an outside public relations firm, the Logan Circle Group, responded with this statement from Gaetz: "The rumors, gossip and self-serving misstatements of others will be addressed in due course by my legal team."
Logan Circle's Erin Elmore—a pro-Trump pundit and former contestant on The Apprentice—added that a lawyer would be "closely monitoring your coverage."
I'm sad Gaetzgate ended up sticking, I liked PizzaGaetz more
plush crypt
near glen
Who?
Oh, is that the poor bastard that never became king because his mom is immortal? 😂
plush crypt
no, that's the mum's (now) late husband
sand shale
I don't either, but the death of the queen's husband catches my attention
vivid sentinel
bbc tower made it quite clear to me
sand shale
oh?
dapper veldt
the queen was selfish and didnt share her totems of undying smh
mystic ermine
Yes, Mini, pretty sure he woulda been king if the queen died, well, if she could die
meager ice
I don't think thats true
shut vine
Charles was next in line.
broken raven
lmao
foggy fern
So much for that J&J problem not affecting the US https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/10/us-states-face-steep-decline-in-jj-vaccine-next-week-as-feds-work-to-approve-baltimore-plant.html
torn wadi
No idea if it's real but: https://www.jpost.com/international/st-vincent-volcano-only-those-vaccinated-for-covid-19-can-evacuate-pm-664781
near glen
Kek
I mean, cruise ships are private entities, they can do whatever
The comments on that YouTube vid tho 😂 😂
torn wadi
Or on this twitter video: https://twitter.com/fugioutliberem/status/1381002007134269446
near glen
While I don't approve of forcing ppl to vaccinate like that, I think the EUGH just ruled that it doesn't violate human rights (altho that case was related to polio or smth? Idk)
smoky hedge
As long as they don't force vaccines on those who are legitimately at high risk from having one I don't overly see too much of an issue with requiring vaccines in an emergency situation
Although leaving people on a volcano island is definitely bad, so I feel that emergency situation kinda outweighs the covid one
By that I more mean - if a city had like a major spike that overwhelmed hospital capacity etc, requiring vaccines to leave home or something like that when the person could have had a vaccine IMO makes sense
near glen
Yeah that's basically what the EUGH ruled
Since I referenced that for the second time now I dug it out
smoky hedge
Yeah - like I feel if they're going for harm reduction though - under no circumstance should they leave someone on an island with an active volcano
Unless they're just saying it requires a vaccination atm, but will relaxe the rules at the last minute just to minimise risk to passengers
(As that'd convince those who are on the fence I guess)
That article feels kinda meh tbh, like they're using a photo of a child in pain from the vaccine, clearly to try getting people on the side of "Don't vaccinate"
Like no one claims a vaccine is comfortable
near glen
They most likely just searched their image database for "kid vaccine" and that was the first result, lol
But I agree, google def returns better results than that image ^^
smoky hedge
Yeah, idk that image gave me vibes that they want people to have a negative opinion on vaccines while reading the generally neutral article
near glen
(fyi, Deutsche Welle/German Wave, dw, is a state funded network)
near glen
Basically Germans international press, they broadcast in smth like 30 language or smth insane like that
smoky hedge
Ah yeah okay
Idk I feel that's a bit sketchy of the journalist who wrote that - as emotional response to headlines and cover image is 100% something they're taught to strongly consider
smoky hedge
Unless they're just saying it requires a vaccination atm, but will relaxe the ru...
Actually after thinking on this more - I think this is also a horrible strategy. To use me as an example, if my options were:
- Die in a volcano
- Get a vaccine with a 35% chance of permanently worsening my condition
I'd 100% pick the latter, even though it's still a horrible option. Threatening people into making decisions can lead them to make very horrible decisions - so even if it's being done purely to attempt to convince the fence sitters, still very yikes
near glen
All individual cases
There are no systematic issues
Please continue
There is nothing to see here
Hey, look, there's a sweet kitty!
meager ice
oops didn't mean to
thorny wing
KNOXVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — Police say multiple people including an officer were shot Monday at a high school in the east Tennessee city of Knoxville.
The Knoxville Police Department tweeted that authorities were on the scene of the shooting at Austin-East Magnet High School. The online posting said a Knoxville Police Department officer was reported among the victims.
Police urged people to avoid the area. Details remained sketchy and news outlets showed numerous police and emergency vehicles at the scene.
https://apnews.com/article/us-news-shootings-knoxville-school-shootings-tennessee-a26e14e3aa9cb04c7ea3e7a0210b9a2c
pls stop
restive seal
'No Way To Prevent This,' Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens
foggy fern
BROOKLYN CENTER, Minn. (AP) — Minnesota police chief says officer who fired single shot that killed a Black man intended to discharge a Taser.
This is a part of the Minneapolis metro area
So yeah, shit is going down
foggy fern
'No Way To Prevent This,' Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens
Did The Onion already post that again?
At this point they should just leave it on their homepage
restive seal
Did The Onion already post that again?
As of when I wrote it, they had not.
foggy fern
“When the officer looked down and saw a firearm pointed at an innocent person, she didn’t have time to think about who was holding the gun or what their motivations were. She simply responded, as many officers would, with deadly force. While the result of that decision has been unfortunate, she was acting on a completely understandable instinct.”
God damn
pure jetty
Just looked at the Wright stuff
seems pretty disrespectful to George Floyd to compare the two cases
the bodycam footage from this seems like it was the officer was panicking
glossy sandal
Its so crazy to have all these things happening in your state when you never thought it would. Minnesota used to be known as the over friendly state smh
plush crypt
dont y'all have the right to carry publicly too in some states?
i have not really looked at this at all, but i'd imagine firearms are pretty fucking normal for a police officer in the US?
mystic ermine
varies across the place
some allow open carry, some allow concealed, some allow one or both with a license, some just make it a royal pita
and, well, yea, but there are procedures in place which as a reponsible gun owner you should take, i.e. keep your gun as far out of the picture as possible
if you're reaching around it's pretty easy for an officer to be paniced, especially if you're resisting/tryna get away
shy gulch
An officer should be trained to be able to spot the difference from his taser and his firearm
They should also be trained to not panic
Unfortunate situation
pure jetty
yeah they should probably be fired if they can't handle that level of stress
shy gulch
100%
Considering everything that has happened in that city you would have thought they reevaluated all of the police
And stopped hiring incompetent police
From what I was taught police are suppose to be conditioned to stay calm during stressful situations
pure jetty
They are and I don't think this was a wrongful hiring
It's really hard to emulate real life stress
and even during training the back of your head knows there is no actual real stakes
so you can never perfectly test for that
shy gulch
Yeah, true. At this point it has to be more then a coincidence tho. Wtf is going on in Minnesota
Just me being skeptical...
pure jetty
coincidence probably, if you want to hyper analyze maybe it could be from the protests/general focus in that area making all the cops more stressed
idk
glossy sandal
Tasers and firearms are on separate sides of the body for that reason so the cop just super fucked up or they're covering for them
pure jetty
it was clearly a mistake
watch bodycam for yourself
doesn't mean they shouldn't be fired however
glossy sandal
Do their gun safetys get turned off when they draw the weapon or do they just never have the saftey on
glossy sandal
From quick reading it seems like they dont ever have saftey on and some guns dont even have a saftey but rely on the holster lol
pure jetty
ah that would make sense
mystic ermine
yea, the idea of the gun is that it can be drawn quickly and used to protect your life, having a safety kinda kills that one
I do question how she confused one for another, but, am a brit and we don't have either, so, never held a gun, etc; problem is that it depends what's going on, I ain't watched the video and not sure I will, so, I can't entirely comment on it
But, minnesota in general is.. erm... well, they're generally on high alert especially with everything going on, with the trial and apparently shits just consistently on the verge, they've defunded their police in favour of like, some more peaceful program or something which I've got no idea how far they're going with that. And, yea, whatjroy said, you've gotta remember that any form of incident with the police involving a POC is generally gonna be hyper politicised and covered in the media, so you've got the stress of the situation, the stress of your every move being watched and judged potentially, with a department which is likely overworked and underpaid... so, lots of "oh fucks" all around...
e: okay, apparently not defunded but they've had a budget cut and are basically on the chopping board in favour of a replacement to the existing system, but, that's collapsed; saying that, you'd pretty much need to be a moron to wanna sign up to be a police officer in many states these days
shy gulch
I don’t understand how people think defunding something will fundamentally improve it
pure jetty
it's terrible messaging
sometimes it doesn't literally mean defund
i don't think anything actually happened funding wise in Minnesota
shy gulch
When people are asking for the police to be defunded I interpret it as them asking for the police to be defunded lol
I am all for reform
glossy sandal
Most things I've seen with "defunding" is resource reallocation but Twitter anarchists make it seem like they want no police at all
pure jetty
yeah that's why its horrible messaging, you can't make such a bold claim like that
glossy sandal
The Minneapolis city council have done some things with funding for police and created some weird new citizens force too
pure jetty
like i like the "8 can't wait" thing
it encourages the reader to read more than 3 words
shy gulch
Yeah
So many great ideas, better then something as simple as getting rid of police or defunding them
mystic ermine
They reallocated $8 mill
then they pushed back 6.4 mill less than a year later to hire officers to try to tackle the crime rate jump
shy gulch
The problem with the police is how they are trained and conditioned to handle situations. They have been seriously militarized and are almost taught gang like mentality. They put their lives and power over their responsibility and duty as public servants.
Defunding them won’t change the issues
Of course using “they” very generally and loosely
Not all police are bad
But it is a systematic problem
mystic ermine
There's many issues in place
It's jst such a politicised issue that I can't see anything really being addressed with it
shy gulch
How does an issue being politicised make it less likely to be addressed?
Wouldn’t it be the opposite lol
mystic ermine
because it gets to the point that it's more political point scoring that actually addressing the issues at hand
shy gulch
Well every issue in America works that way lol
mystic ermine
only real "large" calls to "solve" the issue over the past year that I've really seen is money reallocation and states/cities creating new "forces" which are just cut down, generally defenceless, replacements to the police which are only suitable for a small % of stuff of the actual police force, so all that happens is that police agencies are underfunded, officers quit in swarms because the state doesn't support them, crime spikes, officers get shit on because of the spike, calls get unanswered because there ain't enough coppers around to run to everything, leading to a further spiral
shy gulch
Right, that’s why I don’t believe money reallocation is the answer.
In the case for police reform.
I’d love other US funds to be reallocated lol
mystic ermine
The reason why the issue doesn't get solved when it becomes highly politicised is because the means goes from actually trying to resolve issues to point scoring, as said, so it often leads to stupidly large measures, like defunding stuff without examining any form of impact of that, shit going to shit, the cash being thrown back for quick hires because, oh shit, defunding the police lead to there being less police to answer calls and crimes spiking, meaning that we're just back to state one, if not worse because now there's pressure to try to get the service back in place and you'd have to be a moron to go work for somewhere the public has spent the past year throwing their flack it
nothing has been solved by this, tensions are just boiling over and instead of actually trying to work out the issues and resolve them, we're just back where we left off
glossy sandal
That's politics in the us
All of it is just popularity contests with no actual improvements
mystic ermine
and everybody it too blinded by right vs left to see it
Like, we've low key got the same general political issues here in the UK, where nobody has any faith in shit being done
and, don't get me wrong, fuck the EU
shy gulch
Everything in the us is very black and white
If we are having problems with the police then defund them
Or straight up remove them
mystic ermine
but, like, the EU is just as much of a piss washed cloth as our own government
pure jetty
Everything in the us is very black and white
ehhh i think the general population wants solutions that are black and white
but solutions aren't really black and white
which is where you get push back for the dumbass slogans
glossy sandal
Too many rich old people sticking their feet in the way of progress for anything to get fixed in government
mystic ermine
people want RIGHT NOW action rather than taking the time to address the actual issues, calls are often over-stated and even the people chanting them can hardly agree wtf they actually want
some want the police gone 100%, some wanna take some cash away, very few wanna address the actual issues
shy gulch
It’s a mix of ignorance and the two part system
pure jetty
some want the police gone 100%, some wanna take some cash away, very few wanna a...
agree
shy gulch
Percents of fractions. It always comes to a 50/50 split of generalized solutions
pure jetty
It’s a mix of ignorance and the two part system
a multi party system wouldn't help things lul, if anything it would further fragment the vote in first past the post
at the end of the day probably helping republicans
mystic ermine
Well, places like texas was looking at succession, or however it's spelt
and, really, in the current political climate, err...
shy gulch
With the current environment you are totally right JRoy
glossy sandal
They can but it wont go over well for anyone
shy gulch
Multiple leading parties would be an issue because atm a very large proportion of conservatives agree with each other or will at least vote with each other
pure jetty
texas cannot secede
mystic ermine
APparently there's some areas in the US which wanna like, get their land reshifted to another state
pure jetty
they can claim they can but the supreme court said they can't
and they've upheld that multiple times
the 5 states things is not tested but nobody pushes back against it
pure jetty
mystic ermine
EU skepticism is on the rise
glossy sandal
What would the supreme court of a different country mean to texas if they decided to leave 
mystic ermine
Like, apparently france is close to the like 50%ish mark of if they where to poll to leave the EU
it sounds kinda crazy, but, I think that there is likely gonna be some big global breakup in the next 10 years or so
shy gulch
I thought France was the leading nation of the EU
weary lake
One of the bigger players, yes
mystic ermine
EU basically refuses to help deal with stuff like the immigration problems france is having
or with any issues, really
glossy sandal
There will definitely be a big thing happening soon for sure most likely a new war unfortunately
shy gulch
Aren’t the immigration problems a result of EU policies lmao
pure jetty
EU has open borders so yes?
mystic ermine
Like, they'll scream at france if they do something outta turn but generally refuse to actually help with any of the issues
glossy sandal
https://i.imgur.com/c6LhfL4.png
https://i.imgur.com/Xgd257t.png
Yeah that's why I said it wouldn't go over well for them also dont think the US military would fight for texas just cuz they were based in texas, probably would have some deserters though
weary lake
I think pretty much every country only accepts up to x people or none at all and even then a lot of immigrants are turned down, so everyone has no idea what to do with them, other than send them back
shy gulch
I doubt Texas and the US will be going to war...
glossy sandal
Correct
shy gulch
They won’t
pure jetty
yes
shy gulch
Texan nationalists like to talk this kind of shit twice a year
pure jetty
i was fucking with noman
glossy sandal
pure jetty
am glad i got phizer 
near glen
Do we even have j&j here?
I thought it's only biontech, az and moderna
And if course the "phizer" one is the best one, it's germany quality, smh
pure jetty
foggy fern
So is the upcoming lack of J&J because they're stopping use, because the facility fucked up making it, both, or neither?
near glen
Unless it saves you from contract breach because you deliver less than you promised
foggy fern
So J&J and AZ are both using an adenovirus vector and both are causing similar side effects
Very rare side effects but the treatment for it is not obvious
near glen
So who copied which homework
Iirc here we don't care anymore because some prof said he has a good and easy treatment
foggy fern
Australia was ahead of the game on that one 😛 https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/13/australia-wont-buy-johnson-johnsons-one-dose-covid-vaccine-due-to-astrazeneca-similarities
That professor said the treatment is plasma transfusion
near glen
Oh
foggy fern
Which isn't hard but is an expensive treatment and isn't all that obvious looking at the symptoms
foggy fern
Yeah, it's super rare
near glen
Monitor it, yes, but the drama is so dum
foggy fern
I can see pausing use for a bit to make sure everyone knows what the side effect is and what the treatment choices are though
near glen
It's as save as any other vaccine
pure jetty
humans are horrible at understanding really small or really big numbers
foggy fern
iirc it's looking like these vaccines have twice the rate of side effects
Still nothing overall but higher than normal
near glen
I can see pausing use for a bit to make sure everyone knows what the side effect...
Yeah that's what germany did, and now we only give AZ to old ppl or smth
Before it was reverse, biontech for old and AZ for young
foggy fern
AZ for old now because it's better than nothing and if something does go wrong at least they aren't losing out on too much of their life 😛
near glen
Thankfully we have elections in a few months ^^
near glen
AZ for old now because it's better than nothing and if something does go wrong a...
I can't wait to see the stats on how much money my company saves thanks to corona because our healthcare/life insurance customers died in the age where they get more than they pay
pure jetty
lmfao
near glen
Are we tho?
I think the cdu was never further away from winning an election than right now
Last survey I saw that cdu at 27 and greens at 22
I still wanna see green red red and watch the world burn
But it's prolly gonna be green yellow red
(for the others, green red red would be a rather leftist government, with the greens, the labor party and the left)
foggy fern
And yellow is cdu?
near glen
No, they black
They most likely not gonna be part of the next gov
Thankfully
Only chance they have is to group up with the greens really, but that would be horrible what they want I think
And I don't think the greens really would want that
And it's still a bit of time till the election, i bet cdu will loose even more
I wonder what a more progressive german gov will do to the EU as a whole
foggy fern
Is AfD still relevant?
near glen
Around 10 percent
foggy fern
So not really but you can't completely ignore them
near glen
So like 4th largest I guess, similar to the left and fdp (economic liberal, what i earlier called yellow)
They basically get their corner in the parliment and shout around a bit every now and then but that's basically it
foggy fern
Have any of the others shown any interest in working with them?
near glen
No
That would be a scandal
Part of the cdu wants to work with them, but they would be pretty much publicly executed if they did
Rightfully so, we don't cooperate with terrorists
foggy fern
Unlike in the US where that group just took over the right of center party
Oh so they're like a mini Republican party
near glen
Yeah, but here they are the extremists ^^
foggy fern
Before 2010 they were unthinkably extreme here too
Before 2016 no one thought they were really relevant still
near glen
They passed a resolution at their congress this weekend, banning all imigiration of ppl with less than 4 million euro
Until somebody high up threw a tandrum about wtf they are doing, you are not even reading what you voting on, get your shit together, and then they removed it again 😂
Afd was only relevant in like 2015 when we integrated that giant wave of asylum seekers
foggy fern
I feel like these are the kind of people that would accuse anyone willing to spend 4 million euro to move there a part of the "globalists" or "cultural marxists" or both
near glen
Now they only relevant in the east
foggy fern
aka jews
near glen
But those states are a lost cause anyways
foggy fern
I guess unlike the US they can't rig the system so their 10% gets them 30% of seats
near glen
Nah, only big parties get to rig it
foggy fern
I thought you guys had a proportional system
near glen
Sure
It still has issues ^^
We have something called "Überhangmandate" and I don't even know how to explain that
Basically, you got two votes here, one for the party and one for some local
foggy fern
Yeah that's the proportional bit I was talking about
near glen
If one party Wins more seats by voting in locals than they should get, based on their overall percentage, stuff gets funky
We are one of the largest parliments world wide for that reason
foggy fern
Ah, but you could still rig the system like they do in the US so you get more seats than you should have before the overhang comes in
foggy fern
It does a decent job of it, I learned about it a while ago anyway when I was curious about better election systems than the US uses
(they're all better than the US uses)
near glen
This is an issue because the large population districts are progressive and the low density districts are conservative
So the overall share for progressive parties can be much higher than their amount of won districts, compared to the conservatives who win more districts but have less share
I think we passed a law this year to try to fight that but I think it's a joke
foggy fern
That's fine, the whole point is to let you pick your guy but also ensure the overall demographics match what the people voted for
near glen
We have 709 seats right now, 111 are because of the overhang stuff
foggy fern
I dunno, I suppose I view it as a bit of a champagne problem, you're talking about these issues that seem trivial compared to what we have to deal with so I just blow them off 😛
near glen
We got so many overhang seats, that there's another thing trying to combat that by giving out even more seats
The biggest issue here is the size of parliment
The room is too small and it's rather expensive to pay 111 ppl more than needed, lol
But yes, obviously we aren't as fucked as the US
But that's also not the standards we look up to 😂
foggy fern
Sounds like you need to combine some of those rural districts 😛
For the first time since the pandemic began, Canada has passed a grim milestone, with more new Covid-19 cases per capita than the U.S.
US cases per 100K: 21.0, Canada: 21.8
UK cases per 100k: 2.5
meager ice
Yes
near glen
Because overall cases the UK has smth like 6k per 100k iirc
foggy fern
Yeah, 7 day average new cases
Can't just say UK numbers are because of vaccination either because I think the US is ahead of the UK on vaccination rates
meager ice
I don't believe thats true
foggy fern
UK is in the lead on fully vaccinated but I thought the US just took the lead on percentage with one dose
Oh, I see, the UK numbers are for their entire population, not just adults
So nevermind, they're still like 10% higher
near glen
isnt it the other way around? UK doesnt do second doses
foggy fern
Oh yeah I was reading the numbers backwards
UK is 11.5% fully vaccinated and 48.3% with at least one dose
US is 22.6% fully vaccinated and 36.8% with at least one dose
The news has been making a big deal about how we crossed 50% on the one dose metric lately but that is when only counting adults
Anyway, still, if the UK's covid numbers were due to vaccination you'd expect the US numbers to be down around the same level
Then again due to how bad the UK was doing previously some models estimate between infections and vaccination they've crossed 75% with protection from the virus so maybe they're doing so well now because of how poorly they were doing before
But natural immunity is predicted to fall off after 3-6 months (see people getting reinfected) while we know at least the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine is still 91% effective after 6 months so they still need to vaccinate everyone
molten forge
We’ve been in lockdown for the last few months and a lot of shopping etc opened up on Monday, so id expect that 7 day average to go up a lot next week
We being England
foggy fern
pure jetty
did you watch the body cam footage
opaque prairie
pure jetty
it's not horrible
you can barely tell what happened
but its clear from the body cam footage it was a mistake
foggy fern
Criminally negligent, perhaps?
meager ice
Let's make tasers like guns so police don't get confused when using them
Oh no police accidentally used pistol in confusion
mystic ermine
Familarity with a tool when you need it is important, I mean, they're close enough for use but, I don't really see how you could like, mistake the two unless your brain is in a blender
pure jetty
yeah she was probably having a panic attack
again, she should 100% be fired
but it doesn't seen like she intended to kill the guy at all
mystic ermine
agreed, tbqh
loud flax
i have not seen the word terrorism used to label these BLM rioters
but seen it for the capitol rioters
why?
mystic ermine
narrative, I'd guess
shut vine
i have not seen the word terrorism used to label these BLM rioters
I mean, I agree, but the capitol rioters are more clearly terrorists also.
From the technical definition of terrorists under US law I mean.
loud flax
sure, trying to subvert our democratic processes
shut vine
But I think it's pretty silly either way, it's just a narrative pushed by the press.
mystic ermine
shut vine
again, she should 100% be fired
Yeah I agree, she's clearly not fit to perform the job of a police officer.
mystic ermine
I saw that yesterday or something, and, imho, it really shows the issue with the media
shut vine
Minnesota has a history of trying to get females and minorities to be officers at a much lower qualification than everyone else though.
mystic ermine
I mean, their biggest cash cow left the office
I think that we've had like 2/3 media companies do the disappear/merge thing so far?
foggy fern
pure jetty
dawn flax
how about my facebook account
sick walrus
how'd you compare a netflix account to a municipal water system
torn wadi
By the amount of times they got hacked.
foggy fern
faint radish
What happened to this?
I thought that most of the world had pretty much settled that this was a good idea?
pure jetty
huh
faint radish
The metaphor, of the blindfold
I’m reading http://bostonreview.net/science-nature-race/bram-wispelwey-michelle-morse-antiracist-agenda-medicine right now, and it’s saying colorblind laws aren’t the solution (as part of a larger piece on allocating medical resources based on race)
While that image is of Madam Justice, the same should certainly applies to medicine right?
Offering preferential care based on race or ethnicity may elicit legal challenges from our system of colorblind law.
Yeah, I certainly hope it elicits legal challenges.
And yeah, this is an opinion piece written by only two people out of a large industry.
restive seal
More directly addressing the health side - https://onlinepublichealth.gwu.edu/resources/equity-vs-equality/
faint radish
I understand the difference, equality of opportunity vs equality of outcome
which is portrayed well in the image you posted
as soon as you start trying to engineer equality of outcome, you are treating people differently based on some characteristics (race, ethnicity, gender, etc.), which is what I thought we were trying to get away from
the whole "not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character" bit
also demonstrated by the (cartoon I guess?), is that you aren't simply lifting up the child and toddler to achieve equality of outcome, you are literally cutting down the adult. In other words, taking away from someone simply based on their race (in the context of the article I posted).
pure jetty
the adult isn't being cut down
faint radish
he is being lowered
faint radish
well wait, we now have colorblind laws which is equality
if you want to move to equity, you have to re-arrange the boxes
pure jetty
we have legal equality in the united states currently
faint radish
not start over from 0 boxes for anyone
yes exactly, so each person gets a box as the image shows
so you want to move to equity, you have to take a box away from the adult
pure jetty
and the problem with just equality is that due to systemic racism, a disproportionate amount of minorities end up growing up in poverty
severely limiting their outcome
faint radish
ok, so lets address the problems that cause the disproportionate amount of minorities growing up in poverty. but why does it have to be about race, there are also white people who grow up in poverty. Should we have it so an proportionate amount of people grow up in poverty, or should we work to reduce poverty across the board?
Oakland is trying out monthly payments of $500 to low-income families, but you have to be black, indigenous, or identify as people of color to get it
so lets say you have 100 eligible families based on income level, 70 are families of color. What did the 30 poor white families do to not be eligible for financial assitance?
what if you find a municipality somewhere that has a disproportionate amount of poor white families? Is it OK to only give financial support to only white families then?
pure jetty
yes, means tested solutions tend to solve all these problems
also investing into our countries infra like granting federal funding to schools (and just solely base them in estate tax) so the quality of education is equal no matter where you are
faint radish
yes, means tested solutions tend to solve all these problems
Then I dont see how that isn't the dictionary discrimination based on skin color. I mean discriminate literally means to find a difference between
pure jetty
white people in poverty tend to have an easier path out of poverty
faint radish
so you are justifying discrimination based on race with that?
what about going to some other area, and making discrimination based on race because of one race/ethnicities likelyhood to fall into a category?
that's what racial profiling claims to fix. The FBI says that african amercians account for 55.9% of all homicide offenders. Is it OK for police to be presented with a murder, and say, well, its more likely its an african american man, so we should proceed with that in mind?
pure jetty
that's strawmanning :/
faint radish
no it isn't I dont think, you justified discrimination based on race because you said white people in poverty tend to have an easier path out of poverty
I am asking is it OK to apply the same principal to other areas?
I havent refuted your argument anywhere
only asked questions
just going by the top-line definition of a straw man on wikipedia, a straw man is an argument of having the impression of refuting an argument (ok, I can see how what I said gave this impression), but the proper idea of the argument wasnt addressed or refuted.
I would have had to argue against racial profiling to have been attacking a straw man, but I never did
faint radish
If I had said, here's another example of discriminating based on race, and it's bad, and presented that as a refutation of your position that it's OK to discriminate based on race when handing out financial aid, then I would have been strawmanning.
pure jetty
<:kekw:674093681963302933>
am I wrong
im not saying we have social equality let alone equity
foggy fern
We have legal equality in spherical cow world but things that are illegal and sentencing for them is sometimes written in a way to target specific communities
So in theory they're still equal because they don't specifically call out any group but in reality they aren't
pure jetty
yeah sure totally agree
foggy fern
That's before you even get in to the disparity with policing and sentencing
The laws themselves are biased
pure jetty
if you read into what I was saying around that I wasn't making the "her der racism is illegal so it doesn't exist argument"
we probably agree on this
foggy fern
I guess systemic racism would cover it but based on the bit I quoted it sounded like you were saying the laws were fine it was just the justice system that was a problem
pure jetty
i generally was just saying on the books while forms of discrimination are illegal it doesn't mean that there are ways effects of discrimination can still play out
plush crypt
Ms. Potter’s lawyer, Earl Gray
mfw
foggy fern
A couple of counties including mine are stopping their vaccination programs at the end of April due to low interest. And the one county only has 25% of adults vaccinated so far.
We are so fucked
mystic ermine
Tbqh, it's not really all that surprising
rollout has generally been kinda meh, I got no idea if I'm eligable to get it yet, but, I got a partially diagnosed health condition which means that I'm not entirely sure that I'd want the vaccine anyways
Pretty sure france was one of the contries which was being super skeptical around it as they already are, and then all the waving of the red flags around the AZ vaccine for something which is like a suuppppper rare side effect which they've already apparently got a treatment for is just, er...
foggy fern
We didn't know we had a treatment for it
The standard treatment you'd give for the symptoms, unless you were thorough, would kill the person
mystic ermine
I mean, it's just goes to show the entire clusterfuck of the situation this entire thing is inducing
foggy fern
Now those symptoms + vaccine means do the extra checks and then if needed give the very rare and expensive treatment that works
mystic ermine
with my health I kinda set the idea that maybe this wasn't a good idea for me, and then I see all the crap int he news and it's like, part of me still wishes I could have it without concern, but, like, idk when I'll be eligable for it, when/where to apply for it, and then media runs around waving their hands at everything
Then you had the EU screaming about AZ not delivering their vaccines, then they where screaming their concerns about it, while screaming again about their deliveries, and just, the entire thing is as much of a political clusterfuck as I could imagine
shut vine
While blocking non EU countries from getting the exports
foggy fern
That's why they did the pause thing too, to see if there was any common condition they could screen for, make sure it wasn't more common than it looked, verify working treatments, and get all that information out to the public and doctors
That's why the US is doing it for the J&J vaccine too
(same issue as the AZ one)
Seems like we really only have two vaccines
mystic ermine
Issue is that the onslaught of the media knocks the trust in an already skeptical and fast pushed treatment at a time when trust in politics is already rocky af
foggy fern
Moderna and Pfizer/BioNTech ones seem identical and the AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson ones seem identical
shut vine
I mean the media just uses fear whenever it can to get ratings.
foggy fern
Or at least similar enough to have all the same pros and cons
shut vine
They're struggling to remain relevant.
mystic ermine
maybe legacy media will disappear and pave the way for fact based media
shut vine
Yeah J&J/AZ are making viral vector vaccinations, others are making mRNA ones.
foggy fern
Sure but I guess either J&J and AZ are using the same adenovirus base or they're all similar enough it doesn't matter what one you pick
You'd expect the mRNA ones to be similar, the only difference is how good the nanolipid packaging is
And that mostly just affects how long before it breaks down and what temps it requires
smoky hedge
rollout has generally been kinda meh, I got no idea if I'm eligable to get it ye...
If you're likely to have what I have (ME/CFS and related conditions) - Do not get the AZ or J&J vaccines. The Pfizer one is deemed generally safe unless you get MCAS flare-ups
(Also I forgot if I clicked un-ping or not, sorry if not 😦)
near glen
Lmao
"legislation that passed in the Republican-controlled Senate on Wednesday increases penalties for protesters who block streets while granting blanket immunity for drivers who injure or even kill protesters."
If you ever wanted to play gta afk, oklahoma welcomes you to plow thru protesters without consequences 😂
mystic ermine
that article and the comments, holy fuck
I hope that there are some fucking sanity clauses in there
Like, I don't think that people should be charged if some moron wants to step into the street, or that case where people literally started crowding around somebodies car and they fucking panicked and sped off
foggy fern
huh, apparently this was a known thing https://ashpublications.org/blood/article/109/7/2832/125650/Adenovirus-induced-thrombocytopenia-the-role-of
near glen
I hope that there are some fucking sanity clauses in there
That's not what this bill is
That bill is a free pass
pure jetty
no its not
mystic ermine
I mean, skimming the article you'd believe it
pure jetty
did you even read it?
near glen
You see a group of protestors? Go on, oklahoma welcomes you to just charge thru
mystic ermine
No
pure jetty
NOT EVEN CLOSE
mystic ermine
I mean, I ain't read the bill, but, like, come on
pure jetty
A motor vehicle operator who unintentionally causes injury or death to an individual shall not be criminally or civilly liable for the injury or death, if:
1. The injury or death of the individual occurred while the
motor vehicle operator was fleeing from a riot, as defined in Section 1311 of Title 21 of the Oklahoma Statutes, under a
reasonable belief that fleeing was necessary to protect the motor
vehicle operator from serious injury or death; and
2. The motor vehicle operator exercised due care at the time of
the death or injury.
under a reasonable belief that fleeing was necessary to protect the motor vehicle operator from serious injury or death
mystic ermine
I mean, I personally see no issues with that
pure jetty
its fine
foggy fern
imo the most fucked up part is this:
The bill would make it misdemeanor punishable by up to a year in jail and a $5,000 fine for anyone who blocks the use of a public street.
pure jetty
its probably already legal to do such a thing
mystic ermine
if anybody should be charged in those cases it should be the people who caused those to flee, imho
near glen
It's just rather subjective 🤷♂️
mystic ermine
not really?
pure jetty
reasonable belief is a legal standard
mystic ermine
^^
You can't just ram through some protesters blocking the road and scream that they made you scared
pure jetty
imo the most fucked up part is this:
> The bill would make it misdemeanor punish...
hmm yeah idk how I feel about this
foggy fern
I think it's already legal in most states to run someone over if you think the alternative would be serious injury or death
foggy fern
Because America is for cars
pure jetty
I think it's already legal in most states to run someone over if you think the a...
depends on the states flee laws probably, this law that they just past was almost certainly just clarifying something already legal
mystic ermine
I mean, if somebody puts their own life at risk by stepping out into active traffic, I don't see why the driver should be expected to put their own life at risk to save them
Now, that doesn't mean that you see somebody a few miles up running across the road like a moron you don't slow down
But, eer...
pure jetty
i think this is aimed for like is someone is running at your car
not like just going from point a to point b
mystic ermine
that's what I'm getting from it
pure jetty
ah ok
mystic ermine
Basically, take reasonable precations and if you can avoid harming any life on the road, do it, but, if you start surrounding a car threatening the occupant, I don't think you can be surprised if they throw it into drive and stomp on the gogo peddle
if your sorry ass is in the way of that, so be it, imho
foggy fern
The only problem with these laws (this isn't anything new) is that some people see the road is blocked off and instead of turning around and going another way their road rage kicks in and they try to creep through the crowd playing chicken with the protesters
Eventually they hit one, the crowd gets mad, and bam, now they have an excuse to plow through the rest of them