they may pull a "just my opinion bro" out their ass
#politics
pure jetty
near glen
Any option that says a fact isn't true is invalid
Especially if you pushing an agenda, then it's deformation
It's gonna be interesting because for some reason this still is such a controversial topic in the US, because a significant part of the population is completely detached from reality, thanks to "institutions" like fox
pure jetty
idk what you have in germany but american libel laws are very loose
there is a chance they get away with it
depending on what exact statements we're talking about
near glen
I mean, stuff like that is sketchy in every country where free speech is protected
And fox are professionals, they know how to walk the link
foggy fern
They've argued in the past that obviously no one takes anything Tucker Carlson says as truth
And won
near glen
Kek
foggy fern
MSNBC had a similar case recently with Rachel Maddow but they got away with a simpler "it was clear this statement was her opinion on the topic" or similar
pure jetty
They've argued in the past that obviously no one takes anything Tucker Carlson s...
Sidney Powell is doing the same for dominion
dusky raft
Ye, looks like mc sysadmin/dev work may be curtailed in 2022
pure jetty
wrong channel my dude
pure jetty
non amp
ah they moved the threshold from 20k to 600
interesting
i agree 20k is too high
600 is prob a little low tho
no wonder ebay is requiring SSNs now
opaque prairie
ebay is what now
dusky raft
I think 20k was fine, that is essentially minimum wage
even then, there were limits to that, it was 20k or 200 online transactions
now its 600 with no minimum online transactions
foggy fern
Should probably be around 10k
The threshold for when you have to pay taxes is somewhere around there
Like, if you make less than that total, I mean
opaque prairie
meanwhile i gotta declare the 300 bucks in bitcoin i sold last year :( they should make that have a minimum
foggy fern
That one should come with some documentation from your brokerage, no?
opaque prairie
yep my exchange makes it easy
just feels kinda ridiculous dealing with 300 bucks worth
foggy fern
Eh, every cut off is arbitrary
And you're supposed to be paying taxes on the $20 you made from selling your old jacket on ebay too
Just like you're supposed to be paying tax on the $100 you got from a scratcher
No one ever does because it doesn't get reported to the IRS but you're supposed to
foggy fern
That's also why they don't get reported to the IRS 😛
But financial markets are different, everything gets reported over there
opaque prairie
yeah especially since im in NY, my exchange requires last four SS digits
pure jetty
that's pretty standard in the entire US, no?
government requires all financial agencies collect that kind of data
foggy fern
"over there" meant "in the financial markets"
But yeah, afaik that's a US thing although NY probably has their own rules too since that's where most of the transactions are legally happening
opaque prairie
my understanding of it is that the exchange only had to collect it for NY, not other states
foggy fern
lol, so Sydney Powell is arguing no reasonable person would believe the things she said about Dominion were statements of fact but also that she couldn't have had actual malice because she believed these things were true
near glen
"nobody sane can believe this, also i believe this ans nobody can be as dum as I am"
opal moat
For the EU folks here, would be epic if you sign this: https://noprofitonpandemic.eu/
Basically an ECI to make the vaccines a public good so that everyone can access it
plush crypt
mfw not an EU citizen 😔
opal moat
Which makes sense for them
plush crypt
oh well, 4 years 9 months left...
faint radish
So you know how this “no giving out water at polling places” is some Jim-Crow level voting restrictions that the state of Georgia just passed?
Funnily enough... it looks like New York does the same thing already🤣
pure jetty
ig my town doesn't have massive polling lines but i've never seen water there either
didn't know that was even a thing
foggy fern
Fuck New York too then
Just because they suck doesn't mean Georgia should too
At least they killed off the bits that banned early voting on Sundays and required a reason to get an absentee ballot
pure jetty
oh wait the text of the law is No person shall solicit votes in any manner or by any means or method, nor shall any person distribute or display any campaign material, nor shall any person give, offer to give, or participate in the giving of any money or gifts, including, but not limited to, food and drink, to an elector
to an elector
foggy fern
elector - noun - a person who has the right to vote in an election.
foggy fern
That's the normal definition, unless they have something specific in the law that narrows it to Electoral College voters or something that would be what applies
restive seal
NY is historically known for political influence machines and such, so I can see a "no giving electors a goddamn thing" law making sense in historical context. I think it should be dropped, allowing non-political-labeled distribution of food/drink at polling places/lines.
pure jetty
so it seems the Georgia law still allows poll workers to give out whatever
but not randoms
but yeah looks like electors is defined in their state code as the normal people
dusky raft
@opal moat why is that site a thing? I thought most european nations had some universal free healthcare us americans "envy" for.
they dont, I dont believe its a right to have a service/product
a vaccine is a product
near glen
Point is, we need to make sure everybody has equal access
dusky raft
a right is intangible, much like freedom of speech and equal protection in courts of law
dusky raft
meaning a right to a service,
near glen
Which is material
dusky raft
this is why I think privilege should be better suited for the term than right
the privilege for internet access granted by the government.
its still on the burden of the people
your still paying for it
its just in taxes
much like socialized healthcare
and so does cuba, and their healthcare is shit
opal moat
The point is that unless everyone gets access to the vaccine the pandemic will not stop
dusky raft
ok, got the medical equipment then for it?
opal moat
a lot of companies have yea
dusky raft
nevermind you need to ensure that it is safe?
opal moat
you have to ensure that right now as well
plus, imagine it like that: when the "source code" is available everyone can ensure that it is safe
foggy fern
A privilege is something that can be taken away although since rights in the US can be fairly easily too I guess that would explain why we'd mix the two up 😛
Unless society collapses they're saying you have a right to these things
If society collapses the rights in the US wouldn't last long either
dusky raft
The problem I see with rights is that they can be degraded down to nothing more than services.
treat them as if it were another thing we expect for granted rather than protect
opal moat
that website links to an official european citizens initiative, so it's more or less direct democracy 😄
dusky raft
decentralizing vaccine production doesnt solve removing profit, companies still need to be compensated for material and production, nevermind wages
the US does have something that does do exactly that if needed
but only if required
opal moat
why wouldn't they? Just because others are able to manufacture it as well doesn't mean you don't get compensated? Do you get iPhones for free just because there are other mobile phone producers?
I'd suggest reading a bit about the laws in the EU etc, I think you have a pretty big misunderstanding about some stuff here tbh
dusky raft
yeah, remove control from big companies,
pure jetty
Holy shit you're arguing in so much bad faith
You made an argument nobody was making to give your take on something unrelated lmfao
And I don't think the EU is forcing companies to give them vaccines for free
That'd be quite stupid and no vaccine company would listen to them
R&D is money
dusky raft
no, ive seen certain healthcare systems, its usually set at a price the government makes
and yes
R&D is quite a lot of cash, considering how the technology used to make this vaccine developed over 10-15 years.
pure jetty
I can't speak to what the EU is doing with pharma companies in their jurisdiction because I don't know but at least in the united states, all pharma companies willingly signed into their contracts/purchase orders
near glen
R&D is quite a lot of cash, considering how the technology used to make this vac...
R&D money comes from universities (public) and government (public)
Pfizer didn't develop shit, they just getting the profits now cause they manufacture it
dusky raft
universities published papers on mrna and yes, government did fund it,
but you need to remember the cost of making the machines to develop never mind test the vaccine wasnt done at universities.
near glen
Yes, they deserve compensation for that
But they shouldn't profit as they do, they should be hold accountable to the amount of doses they promised, they should be forced to let others manufacture it too be able to quicker get this shit over with
dusky raft
Founded in 2012, Moderna reached unicorn status — a $1 billion valuation — in just two years, faster than Uber, Dropbox, and Lyft, according to CB Insights. The company’s premise: Using custom-built strands of messenger RNA, known as mRNA, it aims to turn the body’s cells into ad hoc drug factories, compelling them to produce the proteins needed to treat a wide variety of diseases.
But mRNA is a tricky technology. Several major pharmaceutical companies have tried and abandoned the idea, struggling to get mRNA into cells without triggering nasty side effects.```they have been at this game for some time, and now its paying off, but yeah, companies have abandoned mrna vaccines.
they would need to build the equipment based on what moderna and other companies that stuck with mrna.
What I should try to say, R&D for covid-19 is pretty new, but this has been a long standing R&D process to prove this method works
moderna did accept government funding for R&D, and I do think they need to be held accountable to the public.
foggy fern
mRNA therapies have been a failure and mostly abandoned, I think this was the first time someone tried to do a vaccine with it
Or at least the first one to make it through trials (and even then not all of them yet)
iirc the problem with therapies has been that repeated doses pretty much always trigger allergic reactions
dusky raft
Its why Id be wary when it comes to bringing it out to other companies, unless whatever government intends to allow moderna or the companies that developed the vaccines to directly oversee production.
pure jetty
Pfizer didn't develop shit, they just getting the profits now cause they manufac...
This is not true at all, phizer & moderna needed to do R&D for thier drug
That's an extremely bad faith argument to say they are only making profit because they make it
near glen
Phizers drug was created by biontech?
foggy fern
afaik BioNTech did all the actual development work, Pfizer has the people and experience for trials and the ability to do volume production and distribution
For this particular vaccine "all the actual development work" is maybe a week of work based on what Moderna has said
Of course they're building on all their existing work, starting from scratch would take much longer
near glen
A week of work on this particular virus, plus a decade of work on mrna
pure jetty
And the months of actual trials
foggy fern
Right, I'm saying most of the effort was done by Pfizer but Pfizer couldn't have made the vaccine in a week
eager hawk
lol, i was trying to schedule a covid vaccine since i will be working in healthcare, and our governor conveniently announced yesterday (maybe thursday?) that everyone 16+ is eligible for the vaccine from mid-april, so i'm now stuck with everybody else competing for vaccine appointment slots. nice.
i'm probably gonna have to work without the vaccine, which will suck, but at least proper PPE will be provided in the job and that's how everyone's been working this past year anyways so.
pure jetty
how long was your window open
ik it's been a month and a half in my state
and 16+ starts april 1st
eager hawk
for quite a long time (like over two months), but i was finally getting around to getting the certificate to work in the field. i should've signed up for a vaccine earlier with the implication that i will already be starting my work as an EMT by the time/around the time i get my second dose. my moral hesitancy fucked over me
shut vine
oh wait the text of the law is `No person shall solicit votes in any manner or b...
So realistically the law does not prohibit the provision of water at all, just prohibits someone specifically giving it to a specific individual which could be seen as solicitation. If water is provided on premise to everyone then there is no method someone could claim solicitation in a court of law.
pure jetty
So realistically the law does not prohibit the provision of water at all, just p...
no, they are separate clauses
you cannot solicit votes AND cannot give gifts such as food drink etc
pure jetty
poll workers can still give it out
shut vine
Yeah the issue in the spirit of the wording there is that it's a gift to bribe someone
pure jetty
the new bill amends (strikes and inserts to be more specific) a part of an old bill
it makes sense in the context of where its being injected
plus gift is defined like that in a lot of US laws
shut vine
Defined like?
pure jetty
gift = give free
shut vine
Ahh
pure jetty
doesn't 100% imply a quid pro quo
shut vine
Yeah either way, if you have free bottles of water at the venue, or drinking fountains, there is no issue
pure jetty
altho that law does talk about them
eager hawk
I mean motor vehicle accidents are, accidents, but their phrasing using accident in that headline is misleading for sure :-/ goddamn
Rest In Peace to that car owner
Btw, I managed to book an appointment for my vaccine -- it took quite some time with speedy clicking and reliable ping but i was able to book both appointments for moderna on monday :)
eager hawk
We need to amplify this issue on both sides of the media -- it should be a bipartisan support to not allocate taxpayer money specifically for defending officers, but pulling money to defend them from the same money funding source as regular citizens
pure jetty
public defenders are already a thing
an officer should be granted the same right
now I can see a case the union wanting half decent lawyers and not the time constrained public defenders
since officers probably have complex cases
surreal delta
https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/two-girls-13-and-15-accused-of-deadly-a...
Rip the man
he was just trying to provide for his family
gloomy fern
eager hawk
an officer should be granted the same right
Yup i agree on the officers having the same as any other citizen, but afaik they seem to get special designation for their defenders and I don't know if that's fair or not
pure jetty
they probably should have seperate designated lawyers
that way they don't take up public defenders for others
there's been worse that police unions do
this didn't seem that bad
foggy fern
Isn't that kind of shit what union fees are for?
pure jetty
thats how i thought most unions did yeah
maybe unions negotiated it differently with NYC?
near glen
Murica
And funnily, this one is worse than the headline to me
"Since Tennessee is an at-will employee state, employees can be fired for any reason, or no reason. "
foggy fern
There are restrictions on that, Civil Rights Act, Americans with Disabilities Act, etc
Which is why it's easiest to not give a reason and never talk about a reason internally
near glen
Ah ok, so not as worst as I thought, but still really bad
Tennessee is part of the red neck bible belt kinda states, right?
pure jetty
well it seems that the couple in this case were not married
and the federal law only protects married couples
i think the federal protection floor is 12 weeks unpaid
near glen
Here it's almost impossible to fire a pregnant woman
pure jetty
a handful of states increase that to paid/bigger length
eager hawk
that way they don't take up public defenders for others
Then maybe increase the number of public defenders to compensate for the increased flow of defendants?
eager hawk
Tennessee is part of the red neck bible belt kinda states, right?
Yeah they elected Blackwell lol
shut vine
maybe unions negotiated it differently with NYC?
Yeah the police union bargained with the city of New York for the 2 million in like 1980.
2 million realistically is half a drop in an ocean, too.
foggy fern
pure jetty
That was super interesting
foggy fern
Pretty crazy they got a recording of these guys admitting they're trying to fight for "billionaires buying elections" and this bill hurts because when people understand that's what it's fighting they all love it 😛
faint radish
I didn’t realize that this Georgia election reform bill actually doesn’t look like it’s going to reduce voting at all
I guess that’s a testament to the spin from the left on it 🤷
restive seal
Quoting an AP article:
It also cuts the time people have to request an absentee ballot and limits where ballot drop boxes can be placed and when they can be accessed.
The law replaces the elected secretary of state as the chair of the state election board with a new appointee of the legislature after Republican Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger rebuffed Trump’s attempts to overturn Georgia’s election results. It also allows the board to remove and replace county election officials deemed to be underperforming.
These parts are what I would consider potentially troublesome for voting.
Thankfully, some of bad parts like limiting early voting on Sundays (disproportionately affecting black voters) were removed.
faint radish
the WaPo article says the net effect was to expand the opportunities to vote for most Georgians, not limit them.
near glen
I really don't understand why voting is so hard in america
We had elections in a few states the other week, one state had over 60% mail in voting, no issues whatsoever
You can vote early at your local town hall and you can vote at like every school
faint radish
??? it's not hard
I voted for the first time last november, took about 15 minutes
ofc, it varies state by state
near glen
And your location
I always see half day lines on media here
That would be absolutely unacceptable here
And you throw a real fuss about mail voting, who can do it and when and why and stuff
faint radish
you are saying "you" referring to the country, but federal elections are not controlled by the federal government.
counties usually control what time polls are open, but procedure in those counties is controlled at the state level.
idrk what the rules are in other states regarding mail in voting, but I do know, that my parents have always voted by absentee ballot, despite us living like 4 minutes from the usual polling place
near glen
Well, i can't know the small details, I only know the big picture from the reports I see here, and that doesn't look good
pure jetty
I'd say voting is easy in 90% of america
the 10% is all the shit you hear about
and its the dense population centers
faint radish
yeah, I think that's probably accurate.
pure jetty
In the dense states, they're starting to allow mail in voting
which is collio
2020 had the biggest turnout in history!
stiff terrace
@near glen In my state it was quite easy to do a mail in ballot ( Oregon )
urban knoll
I have no drivers license, and had to secure a secondary id. My state (Arizona) has some of the strictest voter id laws in the nation and I was still able to vote.
It was roundabout and arguably excessive, but I still don't see voter id laws as racially suppressive any more than requiring ids for alcohol, attending public school, or concealed carry.
I actually had more difficulty registering for high school than voting 🙄
near glen
Heh, the ID topic. Everything time that topic gets brought up i just shake my head. To me it's unbelievable that there is no government issued ID for every citizen
I am required to have it at hand when I leave like my city area
And that's the ID i gotta show when voting, if i do it in person
It also means gov has a database of all citizens
faint radish
you are required to have an id, in your own country?
thats horrible imo
I'm a citizen of my country, under no obligation to tell anyone anything about myself if I am just walking about in my country
near glen
Everybody over 16 is required to either have an ID or a passport
That's a law here
So you can identify yourself
It's part of our constitution actually
faint radish
You should never have to identify yourself in a public place
If you are arrested, you still don't have to identify yourself
to me, that goes along with proving your guilt, rather than your innocence
near glen
Read the actually law. You are not required to have it on you at all times, but you are required to provide it when requested by authority
faint radish
yeah, that's the problem
I should never have to prove who I am, to any authority
it's on them to prove I was doing something bad
urban knoll
In America you only have to if you want to drive, own a gun, buy alcohol, buy cigarettes, register for school (depending on the district), or vote (depending on the state)
faint radish
yeah, there are ofc things you need to be identified for
I'm talking about just existing in a public place
urban knoll
Oh no, you shouldn't have to "prove" that
faint radish
it sounds like in germany, if I'm just standing in a public park, I can be asked to prove who I am and have to comply
urban knoll
Existing isn't a crime
near glen
So like, if you on a demonstration but start to randalate, and police catches you, and they wanna press charges, but you don't have your ID, they can get you into custody for Identity verification
urban knoll
Hmm well, that's certainly interesting
faint radish
also, providing your identity in that scenario, is providing evidence against yourself
urban knoll
I'm about an hour from the border. We have a lot of illegal immigrants here who don't exactly have ids
urban knoll
@faint radish I'm pretty sure not all countries have strong protection against self-incrimination like we do....
faint radish
ok, I know they dont
urban knoll
I'm not sure
shut vine
Sounds like what Mini is suggesting is those illegal aliens should also be charged for not being able to provide ID if they were arrested for another crime
😉
near glen
It's about citizens
urban knoll
We have a political situation here that would make that ..... difficult, to say the least
faint radish
<@!338670732403933194> I'm pretty sure not all countries have strong protection ...
this is one of the many reasons I am proud to be an american, and proud of the protections against the government our constitution gives us
shut vine
But if they can't get your ID, they can't establish your citizen status
It's a catch 22
urban knoll
Yes
near glen
Also, there are plenty cases where you are required to have an ID at hand. If you hold a weapon for example. Or if you work in a sector that is known for illegal labor
urban knoll
Yeah, we don't really enforce those laws very well down here 😆
Plus it gets into racial profiling, so it becomes a touchy subject
near glen
Yeeaaaaaaaah
But i don't see anything fundemantally wrong with the way germany handles this
I think it's important to be able to verify who you are
urban knoll
Maybe not, but it'd be hard to do here and now where I live
Yeah. I agree, at least for excercising something with potential for abuse (drugs, alchohol, voting, driving)
Sad thing is that those people (often without ids) often end up becoming second-class citizens who never get to learn basic English
They often get paid below minimum wage
near glen
Because is a normal citizen, i really don't care if police asks me for my ID, not like they create movement profiles or anything, and it def helps with illegal activities of all kind
urban knoll
Or employers will threaten to report them to ICE if they ever complain or do bad work
near glen
Well, we do have proper immigration paths here
urban knoll
kek
near glen
If you get granted asylum here, first we do is get you some documents and ID
urban knoll
We're still fighting over "legal status" vs "citienship" vs just "ignore them and pretend they're not here"
near glen
And even as a registered asylum seeker you got some kind of papers i think
And that's the lower end of immigrants, the normal immigrats we just register and they have their passport from their country
We figured all that shit out in the 50s?
When we have the wave of turkish immigrants that basically build the germany we know today
urban knoll
That's super difficult to do here, because the immigration routes are controlled by drug cartels down here
near glen
I mean, being in the middle of a continent prolly helps
urban knoll
When we have the wave of turkish immigrants that basically build the germany we ...
That's the sad thing. Immigrants in America work super hard. Down here, Hispanics are the heart of the labor force
near glen
We get assigned asylum seekers by the EU i think, plus the ppl that managed to avoid registration in their origin country and cross borders into germany
urban knoll
And they can't get government help because the policy is just "ignore them" while we fight out citizenship vs legal status vs deport everyone
near glen
We embrace immigrants, cause we need them
urban knoll
Yeah. Birth rate is below 2 per woman (same here)
near glen
Ppl from the eastern country do all the shit work here
urban knoll
logically.. exponential decay
near glen
That no german wants to do anymore
urban knoll
Eeh yeah. It's pretty similar here.
near glen
And we import knowledgeable workers for all kinda countries
Like, the initial wave of syrians, most of them studied and stuff
They are valuable workforce
urban knoll
Yes
urban knoll
Though I fell that part of the steryotype of illegal immigrants dowing low skilled work is that the high rate of illegal immigration (and lack of documentation) keep wages artificially low.
Farm workers in california get paid waayyyy less than they're worth
They're a mix of legal and illegal migrants from mexico
near glen
Smth smth minimal wage and unions
urban knoll
Can't enforce minimal wage here if half your workforce is illegal 😦
shut vine
I'm all for legal immigrants
urban knoll
Then if a legal one complains they're just fired and replaced with an illegal one
near glen
Then create a proper process to make them legal, lol
urban knoll
And illegal workers can't possibly strike
shut vine
I'm totally against those who want to enter immediately discarding the values of a country though, as illegal aliens
urban knoll
@near glen Too busy with political fighting between "full citizenship" vs "legal status" vs "deport everyone"
shut vine
Which country doesn't have a process?
urban knoll
America has a s*** process
near glen
You certainly can't work without a work permit of some kind
Or the company is in huge trouble
urban knoll
My dad and his friends used to work in the Illinois cornfields during the summer. They would get paid like $20 an hour (and this was in the 60s)
I fell like if we cleanup the system, keep immigration at a more reasonable level (to prevent overwhelming labor supply) and give people some sort of legal working status, then farm wages will go to a reasonable level
shut vine
That's unlikely due to industrialization
urban knoll
Its just hard because there are spcial interests who want tons of cheap illegal labor along mixing up with people who feel sorry for them (and want to make it easier to come in)
near glen
I think the key here is that everybody is registered, that helps immensely
urban knoll
@near glen Yeah
urban knoll
That's unlikely due to industrialization
How so?
In a fair market, I think a farm worker in California is likely to get paid more than someone at McDonalds.
It's simply harder work
shut vine
The jobs workers do now are completely different on farms compared to that time period
urban knoll
It's true
It's still suuuper hard labor though
Much harder than working at McDonalds
shut vine
As jobs become more safe and easier, it's naturally going to reduce the remuneration of those jobs over time
Yeah I agree
That's another reason a minimum wage is insane, but I have to go for a bit
pure jetty
that's nothing to do with minimum wage as a concept
urban knoll
Just I fell the immigration system here upsets the market...... Anything would be better than we have now
pure jetty
a minimum wage is still a good check on market capitalism
foggy fern
The jobs the workers on a farm in California perform aren't going to be that much different from the 60s either
urban knoll
Correct
foggy fern
This isn't corn or wheat where it's all mechanized now
urban knoll
They're super physically-intensive jobs
near glen
Germany had a minimum wage and we doing fine
urban knoll
Picking fruit
near glen
runs
pure jetty
america has one too
urban knoll
Yeah. I feel that minimum wage is fine
urban knoll
Only problem is proposals to set it the same in San Fransisco and the backwoods Tenessee
foggy fern
$15 isn't enough for minimum in San Fran 😛
pure jetty
which is why you'd want to increase it there!
urban knoll
Yeah. $15 is barely getting by in San Fransisco, but it's like upper middle class in my Grandma's town in backwoods Tennessee
I'm all for $15/$20/$25 in San Fransisco, just so long as it's not forced on other, poorer states
foggy fern
The only places I've seen where $15 is plenty are places where you inherit a house in the middle of nowhere so the taxes are cheap
$50,000 is poverty level in San Fran, isn't it?
So $15 isn't barely making it 😛
pure jetty
that's not really true
urban knoll
15*40*52==31200
near glen
It's 10 usd here, but our wage structures are much different anyways so it's not comparable
pure jetty
there is a shit ton of places in america where 30k is plenty
and where government services like insurance can fill the gap
urban knoll
Hmm well, I think San Fransisco is a perfect example of a place that needs a high minimum wage (especially w housing crisis)
pure jetty
spending money on expanding health insurance for those who need it is a much better economic policy than increasing minimum wage
urban knoll
Still I'm hesitant to raise it too high. It's not really possible to just increase the standard of living via legislative fiat
faint radish
Are we really so far down in a hole that there is a significant number of people that don’t think there should be a trial for this?
near glen
Idiots on all sides, don't forget that
pure jetty
lol that was on badlegaltakes twitter
faint radish
Yeah, I can see why 🤣
Oh man, I’m listening to trump talking at a wedding he crashes at mar a lago. Starts talking foreign policy, and the border 🤣
Would be a wedding to remember!
foggy fern
Twitter
foggy fern
tldr "Leave RMS alone"
pure jetty
what has RMS said
don't really know who he is
just heard a lot of people getting mad about him
shut vine
Basically in the Epstein saga, he was talking about Marvin Minsky, and saying that there was no evidence that the legal definition of assault took place. He theorized that it would be logical that Epstein would have been more likely to be doing the coercion and his associates would mostly be unaware of it.
Oh he also theorized that the females involved would have probably presented as totally willing participants in this scenario.
foggy fern
He also had some interesting positions on whether pedophilia should even be a crime
shut vine
It's not a crime.
foggy fern
Not having those thoughts, acting on them
shut vine
That's molestation or statutory rape.
foggy fern
At one point at least he thought if the child consents it shouldn't be an issue
faint radish
oh you know, I guess I never realized pedophilia wasn't the act itself
shut vine
Pedophilia is a mental illness.
foggy fern
He claims he has since learned that consent isn't really a thing for a child
But only after the Epstein stuff happened and someone found that old blog post
faint radish
well wait, that doesn't mean he came to that realization after the post was found, just that he was asked about it after
shut vine
Could you provide a contextual quote, I don't think he actually said these things. Pretty sure he was mostly talking about country.
foggy fern
There are also sexual harassment claims from women at MIT and iirc at least that would even be sexual assault
And the fact that he is just generally a very weird/creepy dude and isn't fit to be the public image of anything
foggy fern
I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren't voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing.
shut vine
Yeah, so he wasn't talking about legality.
I can see his statement as possibly being true in instances, would probably be very rare though.
So can't really say his logic is very sound.
faint radish
it's unreasonable to expect every person to mature at the same time, everyone is different. but you have to have a line.
shut vine
So in a nutshell, he has some unpopular theories, unpopular opinions, and people have made claims about him that have not been proven.
Yea, I agree.
It's a standard society has agreed on.
faint radish
right, and you need that
shut vine
He should be able to debate that as much as he wants.
Not that I think a company could not fire him for having an unpopular opinion.
pure jetty
is that the sole reason people want him out the FSF?
shut vine
Or an opinion they disagree with.
pure jetty
that seems kinda low
shut vine
He founded it.
pure jetty
yes ik but i expected like transphobia or something
this is like just a shitty ass fucking political take
shut vine
I mean depending on what we define transphobia is, that's even a bit strange to me.
foggy fern
shut vine
I'm also fine with people wanting him out, he voluntarily stepped down previously.
shut vine
Gee, he made a creepy joke.
foggy fern
pure jetty
In 2015 and 2016 RMS made three posts on his website about Down’s syndrome. He recommended that, should someone find out they are pregnant and the child tests positive for Down’s syndrome “the right course of action for the woman is to terminate the pregnancy.”
HOLY FUCK
okay yeah i see why people dislike this dude
shut vine
The problem I have with that is it takes a lot out of context that I am aware of the context of, so I'm skeptical of the rest.
foggy fern
He also does fun things like sit on stage and eat his toenails
pure jetty
oh my god and he's one of those "gOoGlE rEqUiReS nOnFrEe SoFtWaRe tO rUn" people
foggy fern
Eh, that's standard FSF stuff
foggy fern
Unless I can run my own Google then using Google is using non-free software
shut vine
He also invented the free software song
Look up that one and try not to laugh
My theory on the real reason for the focus on him and the intentional out of context quotes is his take on the voting machines in 2019.
Or as far back as 2015 if memory serves me correctly
stiff terrace
what have I walked into 
foggy fern
This sounds like some conspiracy theory stuff now 😛
On an unrelated note, I get my first dose of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine on the 6th
shut vine
I mean it would be technically in part, the fact he's severely taken out of context is easy to confirm. The intent behind many news outlets doing so is the area which cannot easily be confirmed.
I mean conflating him saying that in a specific instance it's more plausible that someone would have appeared as a willing participant with him saying they were a willing participant is pretty blatant too.
I think it's clear the intent is to misrepresent him for some reason, as to why that is, I'm just guessing.
Though at the end of the day, a person as eccentric and mentally unstable at him attracts this kind of attention. 😛
foggy fern
There were stories going around earlier today (and I think yesterday?) about Matt Gaetz considering not seeking reelection and possibly even resigning before his term is up to get a job with Newsmax, thought that seemed too crazy to be true
I guess now I know why that was a thing: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/30/us/politics/matt-gaetz-sex-trafficking-investigation.html
faint radish
ya i saw that
foggy fern
Question is was he really considering it or just trying to get another story out to compete with this one?
“I have a suspicion that someone is trying to recategorise my generosity to ex-girlfriends as something more untoward,” he added.
Uh...
faint radish
whoever leaked that he's under investigation... I really don't have respect for them.
there is a reason they don't do press releases when they start investigating someone
if it turns out he didnt do anything wrong at all, just knowing the investigation is out there is damage enough
if I was under investigation for something I didn't do, and it was leaked, and damaged my reputation, but then I was later cleared, I'd be furious
faint radish
wow, ok, so just missed the point completely
tough cedar
i mean lol i didn't
i know what you mean
all those accusations against trump did nothing
why would gaetz be any different
faint radish
again... that's not what Im talking about 🤣
tough cedar
then what damage are you talking about?
faint radish
its ok to do a bad thing, if it doesn't have a bad outcome
I'm not talking about damage to them specifically, but I'm guessing it wasn't his friends who leaked it
tough cedar
then why mention damage at all?
faint radish
this is what the clinton campaign complained about when the FBI re-opened the probe like a week before the election
the FBI doesn't usually, or ever, announce they are starting an investigation
tough cedar
i don't really care if they do or not, keep them on their toes i guess ¯_(ツ)_/¯
faint radish
right now it seems, alleged crimes can get you fired, or you and your family publicly scorned
tough cedar
no one is going to fire matt gaetz...
faint radish
I'm talking generally, how many times do I have to say this lol
tough cedar
but it's not a fair comparison
faint radish
and that isn't a reason to do it either
tough cedar
you're comparing politicians to private citizens
they're in such different classes that it's just unreasonable to even begin to compare them
faint radish
last I checked, politicians are still citizens, and they still have their privacy
foggy fern
The only time this kind of stuff leaks is when it involves rich and/or powerful people
tough cedar
no they don't, not nearly as much as private citizens
faint radish
Yes they do, the public does not have the right to know if they are being investigated. the public DOES have a right to know if they are being indicted
hell, some of the time, they themselves dont know they are being investigated
tough cedar
can't say i agree because we should know what our gov officials are up to
faint radish
but the whole point of an investigation is to find out what they are up to
they dont investigate if they know what they are up to
tough cedar
i mean they're looking into him because a friend of his was indicted
so i guess the doj thought it was reasonable to look into him as well
faint radish
ok sure, I'm not saying they shouldn't be investigating them. I am saying, that simply being investigated is not something the public should know about
for anyone, not just "private citizens"
tough cedar
meh, on one hand i agree, but at the same time i don't think congress should be afforded as much privacy
faint radish
why do people get to know someone is being investigated?
tough cedar
just because they're supposed to represent us
faint radish
it could turn out to be total bunk, and then what?
whoever (speaking generally) it was will have had their reputation tarnished for literally 0 reason
tough cedar
well, then the voters get to decide if they want to continue supporting them or not
more information on who you're voting for is p good imo
faint radish
but its NOT more information, its WRONG information
tough cedar
part of me says the doj is prob competent enough
but at the same time
the gov is not competent lel
faint radish
wait wait wait, we have 0 idea how many investigations have been opened and then closed with no comment, because there shouldnt be
tough cedar
idk, i feel like most members of congress dont have any investigations opened on them ever
i could totally be wrong about that
but it seems like a good hunch
faint radish
so? just because its rare, its ok?
tough cedar
i guess? ¯_(ツ)_/¯
lol i should stop, i'm realizing i don't feel that strongly on this
i'm not feeling as much conviction behind this opinion as I do on other issues
faint radish
If charges are brought against an individual, the investigation will come out in detail
if they arent, no one needs to know they were ever investigated, because it should be considered meaningless
no one knows for sure how it started usually, or the circumstances, or whatever, and saying... well this guy was investigated once, so he's a bad guy, is not what anyone, not just a politician, wants thought of them
tough cedar
i guess my thought is, people of congress probably aren't investigated all that often, so him being investigated is kinda big news
so it was bound to get leaked, because it doesn't happen often
obv i don't know if that's the case
faint radish
it literally shouldn't matter at all
him being indicted would be big news
because that means the doj thinks they have enough to convict him
tough cedar
i'm saying within the doj
it's "big" news within the doj
im arguing hypotheticals now so lol
anyways, my opinion hasn't changed of him
faint radish
oh sure ok. maybe it is. but that doesn't make the person who leaked this any better
and maybe it was accidental, and then whatever, accidents happen
tough cedar
it's interesting to know he's being investigated, and if it goes anywhere, ok, if not, i'll probably forget about it
faint radish
but my hunch is, the leak wasn't accidental
tough cedar
he's not my rep anyways so i can't vote for or against him
faint radish
right ok, and maybe you will forget about it, but what about literally almost everyone else who always reads the first story, and not the correction
not that they dont want to see the correction, just that they dont know it exists
tough cedar
well, then you correct them that it was only an investigation i guess
faint radish
cause that worked for hillary so well
in the modern world, where information travels so fast, and so quickly, no one waits around for the full story
tough cedar
u rite there
restive seal
if **I** was under investigation for something I didn't do, and it was leaked, a...
I agree with the general statement on leaking being bad, totally, but I mean, in this particular case does this really affect significant views of him? Republicans will still vote for him (see: Roy Moore) , and democrats will still despise him. I don't think this actually has an impact, so I really do wonder what motivation someone would have to leak this. (which is still a bad thing)
tough cedar
i still don't know about leaking being bad, just cause of things like snowden
pure jetty
yeah republicans tend to vote for themselves no mater what lmfao
tough cedar
maybe i could get behind it for individuals in congress
faint radish
I’m talking about leaking investigations not plain old leaking
tough cedar
yeh, part of me just wants to apply it to all leaks in gov
faint radish
And it really shouldn’t matter what the outcome would be, it probably won’t change anything, but it’s not a good thing to just say... well this bad thing happened but it probably won’t have an effect, so whatever
In order to stop a behavior, you need to call it out. I think people are onboard with this idea for other things
restive seal
Yep, outcome irrelevant to it being bad. But why leak it. Who even gains anything on this one.
faint radish
Yeah, that idk
shut vine
Leaking on its own isn't bad, but the FBI has fairly strict regulations from Department of Justice around talking to the press specifically when it comes to politicians. I believe the Department of Justice generally is meant to make statements to the press when a politician is involved.
I think it's more strict around reelection/election time specifically, not sure about other times.
Though, define reelection time.
foggy fern
He tried to pull Tucker in to it at least twice
Talking about allegations against him and saying Tucker and his wife had dinner with Gaetz and this girl
eager hawk
Talking about allegations against him and saying Tucker and his wife had dinner ...
0_o
in other drama
this video oh boy
brisk cradle
shy gulch
Any brazillian here ? Does it's real that Bolsonaro is """bad""" ? Does he made good things for the brasil economy ?
near glen
hes an asshat
alt right populist, unable to deal with the pandemic or the climate catastrophe
shy gulch
And what about economic things ?
near glen
exactly as you expect
oh he also supports torture and is a fan of the old Brazilian military dictatorship
faint radish
??
restive seal
Wow.
foggy fern
All the US J&J doses for April...
meager ice
Please be a joke 💩 💩
shy gulch
Does J&J was know in USA before his vaccin ?
pure jetty
Yeah? They're a giant fuckin company
foggy fern
They make Band-Aids and Tylenol so yeah, pretty well known
mystic ermine
talc too!
mystic ermine
yup
foggy fern
faint radish
https://twitter.com/chinaembireland/status/1377302554489544710?s=21
Got ourselves a modern Plato here
pure jetty
fucking china has been doing a lot of social media as of recent
mystic ermine
that first reply
faint radish
that first reply
Yes! Hilarious
pure jetty
1s i gotta find their other tweet
faint radish
I looked through some recent tweets from that account, and they are defending journalism restrictions, expression restrictions
pure jetty
Twitter
faint radish
🤣🤣🤣
I like the (now deleted one) of a Chinese state media tweeting out
Timelapse video takes you inside the process of how a passenger plane is assembled in #China.
With a video of a plane factory that has a MASSIVE us flag hanging in it and is clearly the Boeing factory in Washington state.
🤣🤣
Priceless
foggy fern
near glen
I wonder how ppl feel that make money that way
Like, does the money help to wish away the tears why they cry themselves to sleep?
foggy fern
pure jetty
The debate was fine
Just a clickbait thumbnail
Destiny is pretty chill but the guy loves to die on hills for specifics and to remain morally consistent
foggy fern
This whole thread is just great https://twitter.com/LawDevin/status/1377630739361976320
Twitter
pure jetty
Oh it's april 1st
glossy sandal
O thought this was general 
tough cedar
i n f r a s t r u c t u r e w e e k
https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/politics/2021/04/01/2-trillion-infrastructure-bill-charts-detail-bidens-plan/4820227001/
faint radish
ah yes, just what the doctor ordered. inject even more money into the economy after already injecting unheard of amounts during the pandemic
adjusted for inflation, WWII cost the US $4 trillion, so far, we've spent $6 trillion on the pandemic
now, more people in the US have died in the pandemic than in WWII
foggy fern
This is post-pandemic spending
foggy fern
And I think about half of it is pretty easy to justify
faint radish
ik that, I'm talking about the consequences of injecting even more money in the economy after already record spending
that money is going somewhere
pure jetty
normal people don't spend money on fixing their roads or public transit
faint radish
the money spent on infrastructure is going somewhere, its not just sitting there
tough cedar
meh, we absolutely need to spend the money to fix our infrastructure though
faint radish
oh I agree, there is a big infrastructure problem in the US
tough cedar
so many billions lost because our infrastructure is so bad now
foggy fern
One problem with our infrastructure is that we have too many roads
faint radish
I just am nervous about the government putting even more money into the economy after already doing so much
that usually leads to all-around bad stuff that the taxpayers end up having to pay WAY more anyways
foggy fern
I don't think this would be $2T this year
I think it's over like 10-15 years, it's a generational thing
faint radish
I think its 10 years
tough cedar
ya at the end it says the White House projects the spending would be fully paid in 15 years and reduce deficits in the following years.
foggy fern
A lot of it would probably be this year (or next year) though
pure jetty
i assume in the next 4 years :p
faint radish
regardless of how many years the money is going to be spent over, it is still more money into the economy
after a record amount
its not like this stuff "resets" each year, its a compounding thing
pure jetty
there are different kinds of money going into the economy
tough cedar
meh, i don't know enough about how the economy at this scale works so idk if i can really agree or disagree
pure jetty
its not like this stuff "resets" each year, its a compounding thing
and yes it literally does to an extent
the united states gets a nice trillion or so in taxes every year
faint radish
that isn't the problem, the problem is inflation
continue to inject more and more money and the risk of serious inflation goes up
to grossly oversimplify, and exaggerate: You cannot give everyone a ton of money to solve their problems
pure jetty
inflation is normal
2% is healthy
and the fed has been able to maintain that give or take
faint radish
yes, for now is the issue
and I didn't say inflation wasn't normal or fine, I said "serious" inflation, or more than normal
foggy fern
Inflation was expected to be kind of low in 2020, 0.62%
Looks like as of December it was projected at 1.2% though which is kind of normal
pure jetty
and I didn't say inflation wasn't normal or fine, I said "serious" inflation, or...
im fairly sure the united states government is fully able to maintain a stable inflation rate
even with that $2T plan
especially with joe biden at the helm
and the current congress makup
faint radish
well not everyone is so sure of that, and that is my concern. I agree the gov needs to spend on infrastructure, I just dont know if now is the best time 🤷♂️
foggy fern
Plus if they plan on raising taxes to offset the spending I'm not even sure how it could increase inflation
restive seal
well not everyone is so sure of that, and that is my concern. I agree the gov ne...
You're right. We should have done this years ago. Let's do it now before bridges start collapsing.
foggy fern
Larry Summers is a neoliberal, of course he thinks that 😛
foggy fern
During the California energy crisis of 2000, then-Treasury Secretary Summers teamed with Alan Greenspan and Enron executive Kenneth Lay to lecture California Governor Gray Davis on the causes of the crisis, explaining that the problem was excessive government regulation.
pure jetty
a steady small inflation rate encourages spending rather than sitting on liquid assets
foggy fern
He might be right but if he didn't say that he would be admitting his views of the last few decades were wrong so what else is he going to say?
pure jetty
i mean Summers isn't generally wrong that we shouldn't be doing a ton of these stimulus spending bills for much longer
but his findings that an infrastructure bill would further destabilize the market?
prob not founded
he's probably salty that he got kicked out of biden's econ advisor positions
foggy fern
If Paul Krugman came out and said this plan was a bad idea and was going to spike inflation that'd make me sit up and pay attention
Because that's unexpected
Otherwise it's just a matter of what economics philosophies you think are most correct for a given situation and you can reliably find the proponents of those philosophies taking their obvious positions
pure jetty
give or take yeah
foggy fern
It's all too complicated for any of us to really understand anyway so it's not like we can read that article and figure it out for ourselves
It's all too complicated for them to understand too
faint radish
Paul Krugman wanted price controls...
pure jetty
well any topic is too complicated for a single person to understand
faint radish
if we are talking about people who had/have bad ideas
pure jetty
we form understanding from a bunch of people's views
foggy fern
I'm just saying, it's nothing new
And it sounds like he is talking about WW2 ration card situations
faint radish
well... its a dumb idea... especially during something like this. When the price is controlled, there isn't motivation for the most needed products to be produced because price signals dont work
during WW2, the government controlled the production of a whole bunch of stuff
foggy fern
Yeah, people were saying that should have been done too
Defense Production Act and such
pure jetty
pretty sure krugman has other takes on price controls
would suggest you don't base the credibility of someone off one tweet lul
foggy fern
It's fair though, I pulled out a hot take from Summers as evidence of his views (neoliberalism) so that was a response
I picked Krugman for my example because he is probably as far left as you can go without talking about seizing the means of production, btw
faint radish
ah yes, this is what I was really looking for https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/paul-krugman-internets-effect-economy/
Internet's effect on the economy is no greater than the fax machine by 2005
foggy fern
Yeah that one was already wrong in 1998
I guess he thought it was going to be a fad?
Then again so did Bill Gates so he's in good company there 😛
pure jetty
again alot of people make predictions that are wrong
faint radish
my broader point being, that someone being wrong about one thing, doesn't mean all of them are wrong, so discounting the former treasury secretary's comments because he was behind 0% inflation is probably wrong
pure jetty
i don't think its a past position though?
he's remained pretty consistent on that
i generally will disagree with mega neo libs anyway
faint radish
does it have to be? its still an opinion. Does holding one bad opinion, make all of them bad?
pure jetty
no market regulation is generally a bad idea
foggy fern
I guess my point is economics is a soft science, it's really hard to tell who is right about it at these levels. Even if someone gets a prediction "right" they might have only guessed the outcome correctly and been completely wrong about why it would happen.
faint radish
I honestly dont know anything about the summers guy, it was just the first link that popped up and so I googled who he was 🤷♂️
foggy fern
Like, obviously if you pour infinite money into the economy inflation will go up but we don't deal with spherical cows here
faint radish
spherical cows
? is that a saying? never heard that one 😆
foggy fern
It's a physics thing, you tend to work with spherical cows on infinite frictionless planes to make the math easier for students
faint radish
well not where I'm from apparently... don't think I ever had a cow-related physics problem
not like I remember all of them tho
foggy fern
I don't think we ever literally used spherical cows in any of the examples, it's a joke thing
It was the example our teacher would bring up to make sure we knew we were working with simple models and the real world was more complicated
Milk production at a dairy farm was low, so the farmer wrote to the local university, asking for help from academia. A multidisciplinary team of professors was assembled, headed by a theoretical physicist, and two weeks of intensive on-site investigation took place. The scholars then returned to the university, notebooks crammed with data, where the task of writing the report was left to the team leader. Shortly thereafter the physicist returned to the farm, saying to the farmer, "I have the solution, but it works only in the case of spherical cows in a vacuum".
Similar one about economists:
There is a story that has been going around about a physicist, a chemist, and an economist who were stranded on a desert island with no implements and a can of food. The physicist and the chemist each devised an ingenious mechanism for getting the can open; the economist merely said, "Assume we have a can opener"!
faint radish
I like that one
pure jetty
the American Jobs Plan sounds very house of cardsy
foggy fern
Yeah
pure jetty
ye
faint radish
"You are entitled to nothing"
foggy fern
Trump took a number from House of Cards and robbed FEMA's budget to pay for unrelated things by claiming they were an emergency
I didn't think I'd see that one in real life
pure jetty
yeah 
faint radish
that show was good for like 3 seasons I think
I rewatched it recently, and I was bored once he became president
foggy fern
But I guess it was based on caricatures of Clinton-era American politics so it makes sense it'd get kind of uncanny valley at times
In case it wasn't obvious they were supposed to be the Clintons
foggy fern
Nah the UK one was supposed to be whoever took over from Thatcher
The starting at Whip and taking power bit comes from the UK version along with a lot of the basic framework of the story but the characters were modified to be more Clintonesque
foggy fern
faint radish
ya, I didn't know that existed
foggy fern
Yeah I think I stopped watching the show after season 3, meant to go back at some point then the Spacey thing happened and I just put it off
pure jetty
yeah he's done a video every christmas so far
foggy fern
Stopped paying attention to talk about the show because spoilers 😛
At this point it's too late, it's all spoiled for me anyway, but yeah
faint radish
damn, he is so good as that character
foggy fern
Yeah, it was pretty amazing
faint radish
I also really liked him in American Beauty
foggy fern
That was a weird movie 😛
faint radish
yes it certainly was
foggy fern
Well done and I watched it multiple times but... weird
foggy fern
btw apparently J&J says none of those ruined doses were meant to go to the US
I wonder if that means they're actually splitting up production lines like that or if they're just screwing someone else to keep the US happy
faint radish
you know, I imagine they would split up production lines
different countries prob have different regulations regarding vial labeling, storage, volume, etc
foggy fern
That's all on the packaging side though, manufacturing is done in large batches
But yeah, maybe
It sounds like this particular site wasn't even approved to make the vaccine yet for US use
faint radish
yeah, idk, just spitballing
foggy fern
Weird that the original story implied this was the US supply for April, perhaps the numbers just lined up and someone made an assumption
Or I misread it and I made that assumption
foggy fern
Eh, not knowing where/what Andorra is would be like a European not knowing where/what Davenport is
Totally understandable, why would anyone ever need to know that? 😛
mystic ermine
Yea, but, can you name every state?!
mystic ermine
nope
mystic ermine
I mean, america is more comparable to europe than it is to like, whatever
Don't get me wrong, it's funny that people don't know where some of the stuff I know is, not that I remember too much now as my brain is ass, but, like, there two entirely different scales
foggy fern
Me knowing the states of Germany would be like you knowing the counties of Iowa
😛
(I don't know all the counties of Iowa, we've got 99 of the dumb things)
mystic ermine
don't get me wrong, 'murica defo needs to fix their system as it's so stupidly inconsistent, my ex from across the pond was doing stuff in school whih was above what I learn't, but, I was in a kinda crappy school tbqh, but, apparently in some other areas they kinda fall back (she was also doing some AP stuff or something early I think, so, god knows), would be nice if they learned more world geography, but, like, learning the states is akin to me learning where germany is, where the UK is, where poland is, etc, etc
near glen
but I know where everything in europe, asia, africa and america is
and even know many states
mystic ermine
meanwhile most americans will know most of the states and a few places outside of the US
pure jetty
Geography is a dumb skill
Most Americans don't need to know where countries are
Most Europeans don't need to know any of the states
Doesn't really matter unless you're here even if you're here it really still doesn't matter
near glen
the funniest thing was asking soldiers to point out on a map where their last deployment was
pure jetty
I imagine part of his show either cherry picks the dumb people or pays people to say stupid things
foggy fern
I'm terrible at geography, probably a combination of not being a visual thinker and not really caring about it
weary lake
I probably wouldn't get very far in Africa either, West Europe and North America is fine, I could probably find a couple countries in Asia.
I would prefer a map centered on Europe instead of Asia though, cause that confused me at first when watching that video
foggy fern
I always think Korea is down by India
weary lake
Korea is the part attached to the top-right of China I think
foggy fern
Yep
arctic marsh
faint radish
https://twitter.com/taralarosa/status/1377769349260439557?s=21
Smh. More people thinking that the us government is the source of our freedoms...
“...if you’re vaccinated you can do all these things, here are all these freedoms you can have.”
I think a lot of people say that while not really meaning it, just not understanding that their is a real difference between saying “My government gives me my rights” vs “My government restricts my rights”
One is a positive right, the other is a negative
mystic ermine
Well, the intent of the constitution is to give you the rights to be free
Issue is that there's the whole dozens of shit after that consitition was made, which, errr... gl...
faint radish
The constitution makes it very clear, that everyone starts out with the superset of all rights.
Then lays out some the government cannot take away
mystic ermine
and then the government takes away
and tries to pick as hard as they can at the rights the constitution says that they can't take away
faint radish
Yes, they are allowed to do that.
mystic ermine
is fun yea
faint radish
But I think the US has a culture problem there, where we are turning into a permission society, where people need to ask the government if it’s ok to do something first
mystic ermine
Well, yea
and then you've got the issue where government is generally persuaded by disillusioned groups and such
faint radish
Something to always remember, a “permit” is the government taking your rights, and then “permitting” you to do something, while usually charging you for it.
mystic ermine
like the group complaining that house prices in SF are stupidly high and there's so many issues with gentrification all while blocking people from turning disused buildings into flats/housing of which some legally has to be allocated to affordable housing, etc
faint radish
I need like 400 permits to add a section to my house. Why? I own it.
mystic ermine
It's all stupid
pure jetty
because we don't want a housing market that is filled with inconsistent and horribly made houses
mystic ermine
I mean, I partially understand permits
pure jetty
if we have houses that are not up to code, they're a pain in the ass to sell
mystic ermine
I mean, for self made, you should be able to do whatever the heck you want
pure jetty
and creates issues with the liquidity of the housing market
mystic ermine
Issue is that somebody else is eventually gonna live there, and there are others outside of yourself attached to that property generally
faint radish
That may be undesired JRoy, but it’s still my house. I have a financial incentive to be able to sell the house easily
mystic ermine
you fuck up and cause a collapse or cause some electrical fire, that's you fucked, and potentially neigbours, etc
pure jetty
plus you may not know every single code that you should follow
faint radish
I’m not talking about building codes... to even start you need permits
pure jetty
correct
mystic ermine
Like, there are defo reasons why there should be safety measures to ensure that stuff is properly planned and wont cause risks to others
pure jetty
they want to make sure you have plans to do shit
mystic ermine
There's lots of stuff where am iffy on
I got nothing against allowing somebody to shoot themselves in the foot
faint radish
Ok, maybe that was a bad example. How about selling fruit I grow to my neighbors? Or Airbnb’s being illegal in a lot of places
mystic ermine
It's just, that bullet ain't gonna stop once its in the foot, you don't want others to be impacted, etc
faint radish
Or me not being able to be a barber without 700 hours of training or whatever it was.
mystic ermine
oh god
faint radish
Or open a new moving company without getting approval from the other moving companies?
mystic ermine
I saw one about a woman who was threatened to be fined like 2k a day for braiding peoples hair unles she got a stamp in hair work
faint radish
Or open an ice cream shop in SF like this one guy has been trying to to for years
mystic ermine
Only, she was told that she didn't need said stamp by the board before they flipped their mind
Their argument was "you can cause harm to people if you don't know how to braid"
meanwhile, NONE OF THE PROGRAMS TEACH BRAIDING
Like, -.-
faint radish
Yeah, board certifications are crazy (obv not in everything like doctors or lawyers)
mystic ermine
society is just crazy
I understand rules and regulation designed to protect the public and others
faint radish
It’s illegal to sell an extra room in CA for a longer period of time because we aren’t registered as a bed and breakfast
mystic ermine
But, there comes a point where it's just throwing unneeded paperwork and pushing everybody down
faint radish
Two people can’t agree on an exchange of services without the gov permitting it
mystic ermine
it's why I'm a fan of smaller government
even in the UK
I cannot think of a single project in the UK which was government ran in any capacity which isn't overdue and overbudget
faint radish
Oh man, the California bullet train... THE poster child for that.
Just got pushed back two years until... 2032
mystic ermine
we got our own project like that, HS2
faint radish
To finish part of the line, from nowhere to nowhere
mystic ermine
lol, yea
faint radish
Costing gazillions of dollars
mystic ermine
well, hey, gotta keep the unions steaming ahead
faint radish
Air travel is so cheap, before the pandemic even. Southwest regularly has $49 flights from San Francisco to LA.
Pretty sure it was <100 pre-pandemic
So, that is still crazy cheap for a ~1 hr flight
mystic ermine
low carbon mass transit systems are nice, at least until we get aviation running on greener stuff, I can understand why a rail line would be nice
But, like
Like
at what point do you say that the management of this project is such a tragedy that it should be thrown out
faint radish
The EU has a great train system. And it works there. Things are much closer together
mystic ermine
Like, last I knew the project was cut down in attempts for some politician to try to claim that "he did it!", which, never even managed to get the project finished
foggy fern
airbnb is a simple zoning thing, btw
Your house isn't zoned for commercial use
Zoning laws are a bit of a NIMBY thing but they have valid reasons to exist too, it's a light touch of central planning so the city layout makes sense
faint radish
Well... the exaggeration of the effects of the Georgia election reform Bill actually got the MLB to move the all star game
That’s so crazy.
The bill expands early voting, makes it easier to vote.
Joe Biden’s comments that it changed the voting hours to end at 5pm got 4 Pinocchios from the WaPo’s fact checker
And preventing third parties from handing out food & drinks in polling lines isn’t anything new. And it certainly doesn’t mean you can’t drink water in line. That was laughable.
It’s to prevent the NRA or the teachers union, from showing up and giving out food and water.
quick cave
Trump 2020
faint radish
oh wait he lost? 😱
tough cedar
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/us/politics/georgia-voting-law-annotated.html haven't read it all but the opening paragraph and the "significant changes" listed seem to make it more difficult to vote
faint radish
so just looking at the first point about the time for absentee ballots? what was it 4 years ago, not last year when everyone extended everything due to extreme circumstances
the whole 9-5 voting thing is almost exactly what it was before. the wording before was "during normal business hours" which isn't concrete and usually means 9-5, this changes that to definitely mean 9-5, and as before, lets counties extend the hours as they see fit
they get rid of the signature matching, which is subjective, for an id'd approach
and you can get a free voter ID card if you dont have one of the 6 designated forms of photo id
63 percent of Black respondeds to a poll in georgia said they support photo ids for polling places https://www.ajc.com/politics/interactive-poll-of-georgia-voters-january-2021/TWP2LTEGFZEGNFUPMS3NIWPDWU/
foggy fern
As a general concept voter ID sounds great but ideally it'd be something mailed to you 😛
Or requirements on where places to get those IDs could be located that ensured they were effectively covering the most people possible instead of having 3 in the nice part of town and 1 in the poor part of town
Requirements on the hours for those places that ensured no matter what your work schedule is they'd be open
faint radish
I think you can just get them right at the polling places
If the hours don’t work for the Election Day itself, you can vote in person on weekends.
Early voting on weekends was literally expanded to include a second Saturday
My point with all of this being, that it’s not nearly as “bad” or as “restrictive” as like, all the media/Twitter seems to think it is. And it’s certainly not worse than Jim Crow as Joe Biden said
It’s not even close to Jim Crow. There were actual murders going on during that time period to keep black people from voting
pure jetty
ideally these would also have ways for homeless people to vote easily but none of the solutions do
faint radish
So is the criticism that it’s not good enough? Or that it’s a massive step backwards?
foggy fern
I still think the overall effect is to make voting harder
pure jetty
generally i think it could improve in many places
foggy fern
Not as hard as they wanted since the worst bits got dropped from the bill last minute
pure jetty
if voter id was a just a new way to vote like a fast pass per say
foggy fern
The worst voting bits anyway
pure jetty
idc how it works
but generally our elections are amazingly safe as it is
so the "id for security" argument doesn't really move me
I'm all for making it easy for others to vote tho
faint radish
The voter id thing was to be able to get rid of signature matching. Isn’t that safer?
foggy fern
The worst part of the whole bill is the part that ejects the Secretary of State from the council or whatever that oversees elections for the state and letting that council overrule a county election board
We're not looking for safer, we're looking for more accessible
pure jetty
yeah we're already pretty safe
foggy fern
There isn't any sign that it needs to be safer and security always reduces accessibility
pure jetty
ideally I'd want something that keeps the current safety level while increasing accessibility to voters
faint radish
Who doesn’t want IDs tho... it’s a really popular idea.
pure jetty
because not everyone has driver licenses
foggy fern
In spherical cow world IDs are a great idea
mystic ermine
you need IDs for practically everything?
pure jetty
well not really
faint radish
And there is a free easy way to get one in Georgia
mystic ermine
If the IDs accepted is too small, it should be widened to stuff which is more accessible
foggy fern
Right, this is why I said in spherical cow world they're great 😛
pure jetty
And there is a free easy way to get one in Georgia
for people without a house, car, or can't afford to take time off during the times the DMV is open?
mystic ermine
over in the UK, we just have voter registers, many countries have ID requirements already like germany does iirc
biggest thing is making ID accessible, however
faint radish
Can’t you get the new ID literally at the polls?
foggy fern
The idea of them is great and everyone likes that but the implementations always seem to be skewed toward ensuring more conservatives vote
pure jetty
depends
mystic ermine
But, cost of it doesn't really seem to be an issue afaik
foggy fern
I have no idea on this one, I'd just skeptical of voter ID laws from Republicans until shown otherwise
restive seal
Who doesn’t want IDs tho... it’s a really popular idea.
I know one person who doesn't want to need to use an ID
^_^ ❤️
restive seal
Not sourced other than "this was on Reddit" but if the numbers are true that's your problem right there.
8% of whites don’t have a valid ID
25% of blacks don’t have a valid ID
No water for lines. Areas with more black people have longer lines.
dusky raft
0 form of valid ID? I find that far fetched, considering you do need a valid ID beyond voting and driving
also, I dont believe the law prohibits poll workers for giving water out, just political activists and party officials
pure jetty
correct
but at the end of the day "political activists" makes it so only poll workers can
dusky raft
and besides, I wouldnt be shocked if states like massachusetts have provisions that ban handing free items out to voters
dusky raft
yeah
pure jetty
this new law just amended that law
pure jetty
it struck a section of the 2006 law and replaced it with the given text
dusky raft
all laws in conflict with SB202 are nullified
it could be the reason why that was added in
broken raven
Take care of your children guys, the evil hindus are invading!
👀
broken raven
I don't get it
its a free world, why are people putting constrains on certain religions
pure jetty
if the ban truly is motivated by religion like the article says it is, they can't put those constraints
it's illegal
in which case they're probably petition the supreme court
plenty of people will take on such a case for free
near glen
But then you would set a precedent that yoga is in fact related to a religion, which is fucking stupid
pure jetty
no that's not how it would work
if they only banned yoga and enforced said ban for hindus, it's illegal
you don't "set a precedent that yoga is in fact related to a religion"
you can have a mens rea without it being explicit
near glen
They don't ban yogas from hindus tho
They ban schools to offer yoga courses if i understood this correctly
So not sure if there's a discrimination case here
pure jetty
hmm
that's a little harder case to be made then
banning "curriculum" technically isn't illegal in that case afaik
it's generally just shitty
if it was mega explicit that it was religious motivated maybe you could levy a case against it?
pure jetty
yeah you can tell it was written in 1997 lmfao