politics

[eager hawk]

are you equating politicians condemning hate speech with creating legislation to stop hate speech? hopefully not, because i am completely unaware of any democratic socialist effort of preventing freedom of speech.

[shut vine]

I equated politicians to people, it really isn't wise to compare the political "affiliation" politicians claim to that of individual citizens

Several Democratic Socialist countries are going down the path of censoring and compelling speech. Either the movement is inherently problematic or politicians are using it to implement authoritarian laws.

That's where the confusion is.

[eager hawk]

ive said american democratic socialists many times to clarify that i'm not talking about those countries, seems like you didn't get it.

[shut vine]

I did quite clearly get it.

And I do not trust politicians, or the Democratic Socialist movement.

Seems you didn't get that.

[eager hawk]

so when the time comes for casting your vote, you just... don't vote?

[shut vine]

Nope, that's a straw man.

If I were voting in the US I'd probably vote independent or republican depending on who was in my district. Though my focus would be on local government to be honest.

[eager hawk]

it is, but it just puzzles me/makes me wonder that in the end, you have these sets of viewpoints that go across the entire spectrum, though mostly aligning with american democratic socialist ideals. who do you vote for in the end, if you don't mind me asking? yes this is a digression, and i am aware of it, but i am confused on your premise with all of these arguments and debates we've been having if you dont have a preferred candidate

ah

[shut vine]

Democrats have a long history of racism and horrible legislation in my opinion.

I know that opinion probably isn't making a lot of sense but I feel like they don't do a very good job of teaching American history in your schools.

[eager hawk]

often when people vote they vote based on certain issues they personally prioritize and look for from candidates' positions, which issue would that be for you? does your viewpoint on having a fair capitalism with a well-developed social safety net go below in priority over your other ideals?

[shut vine]

Yea that's part of the issue with Democracy.

As for why I'd vote.. hmm

[eager hawk]

republicans have a long history of catering for the rich, prioritizing tax cuts for them, destroying social safety nets, go figure.

though catering to the rich is apparent in both sides of the aisle

[near glen]

You forgot vote suppression

[eager hawk]

that too ^

[near glen]

If you cater to the right, gotta make sure the poor can't vote

[shut vine]

Yea both parties engage in horrible things, I kind of feel the racism "trumps" it for me.

Honestly I'd probably not vote in 2016 or 2020 for a President btw.

I really disliked Biden, Clinton, and Trump.

I couldn't really pick a best of the worst out of any of them.

[eager hawk]

well i'm confused, why are you sitting here talking politics if you don't have any intention to act on them to affect your community/society, unless you're talking on here to practice your discourse skills like what i've been doing

[eager hawk]

they all suck i agree, any agreements you have with some of the primary candidates from both sides?

[shut vine]

Oh I got interrupted mid thought. Everyone has complicated factors in why they'd vote.

So self analyzing that takes a bit of heavy introspection.

I am trying to decide if my factors for those choices would be personal or not.

[eager hawk]

in the end, we all say that to make an impact in our society, we need to go out and vote, run for office, or volunteer with NGO/grassroot organizations. is your purpose to talk about politics just to talk about it, and not necessarily on making impacts?

[shut vine]

I feel in general the policies of the republicans are probably more suited to American individuals thriving.

Though I don't think it's by much.

[eager hawk]

you can sleep on it and answer another time if you want, i hope i'm not forcing you to answer to that question.

[eager hawk]

i think republicans do a good job of trying to portray themselves as trying to cater to the everyday american

[shut vine]

I think that's what both parties do.

Them and their 20,000USD ice cream freezers.

And their COVID-safe beauty treatments

[eager hawk]

at least democratic socialists actually try to work towards legislation that provides benefits to the people

[eager hawk]

their = nancy pelosi. she needs to step down, as democratic socialists say here.

[shut vine]

So the ones you're talking about are independents that don't support the Democrats?

[eager hawk]

if you're saying that politicians like AOC and Bernie Sanders are independents then yes

[shut vine]

AOC is a Democrat

[eager hawk]

she is a democratic socialist

[shut vine]

Sanders has been a Democrat ball boy for some 30 years.

She's not a member of the DNC?

[eager hawk]

he himself cannot change politics because he is a single senator of 100 but his beliefs have continued to fall under the ideals of democratic socialistm

[shut vine]

He has the power now, his vote means he can get anything he wants.

[eager hawk]

yes she is by default but she identifies her beliefs as democratic socialist if you werent aware

[eager hawk]

huh

[shut vine]

He can block literally any legislation he wants.

Both him and King

Democrats don't control the Senate without both of them.

And it only just gets them 50 votes.

[eager hawk]

yeah he can, likewise with the other 49 left leaning politicians. but continuously blocking legislation is worse than voting for something you slightly agree on.

[shut vine]

Depends, if the legislation is bad then no.

If you like part of it.. but the rest is shit... block it.

Harder to abolish legislation than implement it.

[eager hawk]

then absolutely nothing will pass, and that is worse than having something pass.

[shut vine]

Depends again on what it is.

[eager hawk]

stimulus bill?

[shut vine]

For the relief bill, I begrudgingly agree.

But that was held up way too long already.

Both parties are to blame for that

[eager hawk]

blame it on filibuster.

[shut vine]

How is that even remotely related to it?

It was delayed by months, not days.

[eager hawk]

yeah why was it delayed so much? wasn't there intense disagreements on what should be included in the bill?

[shut vine]

Basically they were negotiating on price. So while everyone was suffering they're arguing over amounts.

Wolf Blitzer's interview with Pelosi went viral I thought

I can't believe she got reelected after that, seems the people in her district just care about having her kiss their ass

[eager hawk]

ill search and watch it. well there needs to be someone who runs against pelosi, and for that to actually happen we need a debate. but pelosi won't let it seeing how the incumbent before AOC got thrown off by her lol

[shut vine]

Interestingly one of the guys I most tolerate from the left is this guy who covers the Pelosi interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV2mBhQR3r4

[eager hawk]

we're in agreement pelosi needs to go :)

[shut vine]

He's fairly consistent about his criticism

Doesn't like Trump, Obama, Clinton, etc.

He can understand why Trump was elected.

[eager hawk]

and self-identifying democratic socialists from the democratic party are the ones who do not want these corporate funded democrats continuing to continue to rule, and also are in support of social safety nets as you say. those two beliefs align you with their viewpoints :)

[shut vine]

Pelosi was most concerned about Trump getting credit for the stimulus bill at one point.

[eager hawk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqPltMpWIwo

[shut vine]

She wouldn't bend if he was going to get credit.

That's the full one

I think

[eager hawk]

yeah 13 minutes

i gtg, it's getting late. thanks for talking with me, let's continue the convo tomorrow :)

[shut vine]

Sleep well

[eager hawk]

you too, gn :)

[eager hawk]

waiiit one question before i go: so you're for the stimulus bill?

[shut vine]

I'm for the stimulus bill yea, just not the 1T of waste.

[eager hawk]

what's the 1T that you're against? currently in the works of trying to find a source detailing the bill, but if you can link me an article thatd be nice too

[eager hawk]

i watched the full interview, what i won't get with your arguments against pelosi however are that as you can see, she was fighting against some of the unnecessary tax breaks for the wealthy that the republicans put in to the bill. both sides are playing the same game, of adding in attributes to the bill that they've wanted passed and considers it convenient to add them on to the bill. but in the end, i think the democrats' initiative of trying to put in more welfare support/child care compensation/education funding/unemployment benefits/pension plans show that the democrats are in general for assisting the people more than republicans.

i understand pelosi's frustration but she should've put the personal conflicts aside and tried to work together with the unfaithful, xenophobic, military-betraying, name-calling, white supremacist commander in chief. i can agree with that, but i also understand why that is hard to do.

[shut vine]

I will try and find the source I found.

But it'll be tomorrow or so I'm winding down for bed too.

I would consider that line of reasoning if she hadn't lied.

Also probably if the science backed the current bill, but it contradicts it.

[eager hawk]

^ mind if you cite your sources for how you came to the conclusion on your previous two messages? I can believe that she lies and that some research may show drawbacks to the proposed components of the bill but I would like to see the sources to learn myself

[foggy fern]

Neat, I think I'm going to start using this https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200531/23325444617/hello-youve-been-referred-here-because-youre-wrong-about-section-230-communications-decency-act.shtml

[shut vine]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZakHrQ1m34M

Some more about NIT

[shut vine]

Sure, go ahead and cite yours first though

[eager hawk]

of which argument that i've stated?

[shut vine]

About what Nanci said

You understood her viewpoint, and made claims about the Republican bill

Instead of confirming you've assumed she's telling the truth

I can assert that because of the time it took you to watch the video

Also you cited her motivation

[restive seal]

Is this a playground? Seriously.

[shut vine]

No this is civil society, the rules of which are if you have a standard for others you must live by them or you're a hypocrite

[restive seal]

@foggy fern this looks pretty neat. Reading now.

[eager hawk]

i understood her viewpoint, if what she said was the truth. unfortunately, i haven't done further research on fact checking her claims. fine then, i will search myself what the lies were that she said in the interview, because it seems like you're too lazy to cite your sources to defend your viewpoints.

[shut vine]

Well my source is her.

She claimed in a podcast her reason was purely she didn't want Trump to get credit on the bill, as I mentioned the other day

Pretty sure the video I linked shows her saying that

Though I'd have to check

As far as the science

Biden's own scientists say 300B+ of the bill is not needed, specifically the school portion

They already have 110B from 2020, most of which is unspent, and the intent of the 300B+ was for social distancing, which the scientists themselves say is unnecessary for schools to return

Oh and masks

My point being, she lied in one of those interviews btw

[restive seal]

Speaking on CNN's State of the Union, Fauci said that the CDC is "very well aware that data are accumulating making it look more like three feet are okay under certain circumstances," but he stopped short of issuing such guidance himself.

Instead, Fauci said he speaks to the CDC "every single day," and that the agency is aware of the data and will be acting on it, adding that new guidelines to reopen schools will come from the CDC "within a reasonable period of time."

This published today.

• https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanponciano/2021/03/14/fauci-says-three-feet-social-distancing-may-suffice-to-reopen-schools/?sh=273a060f2cf3

That sounds a bit too new to magically invalidate a bill that started a while back?

[eager hawk]

you're saying that a single stated reason for why she was delaying passing the covid bill, was the only true reason for why the bill was getting passed late? well i can tell you that 1) i can believe that it was one of her motivations to not pass the stimulus bill as is, but 2) i think it is hypocritical to come to a conclusion that it is the single reason why she slowed down the process of the relief bill. repeating the opinion i said previously, i understand her sentiments for not wanting to work with trump, because trump has done and said things that contradict what a leader is supposed to do, and he is largely responsible for the disaster there was with terrible numbers of covid cases and deaths. every politician lies, and heck there's so many republicans that do that, and once again, pelosi needs to go. i will check out the interview for myself cause if she really said that, those sentiments if she expressed should be the driving factor in kicking her out of office.

[shut vine]

I never made those claims

I claimed she lied in either the podcast, or in that interview with Wolfe Blitzer. Her claim in the podcast was she'd never let him get his name on the bill.

That was her motivation for delaying it.

Her claim with Wolfe was it wasn't the right bill.

One of those is true, one of those is false.

[eager hawk]

that does contradict, we see that mostly in every other corporate elitist politician in the US.

[shut vine]

I put it to you, that on national television is probably the one where she's lying because she's a politician.

[eager hawk]

yo Jimmy Dore is a progressive/democratic socialist, im glad you like his viewpoints :D

[shut vine]

I'd be interested in how many tax breaks her previous COVID relief bills had, and how many trillions she gave to big corporations.

[eager hawk]

dude same

[foggy fern]

Most of the first bill seemed to go to big corporations

[shut vine]

I don't particularly like his viewpoints always, but I find him refreshingly balanced in what he talks about.

[eager hawk]

it's so blatantly obvious she is masking under the guise of being a progressive, good-for-the-people politician when there's a lot more going on catering to the donors of the super pacs that have donated to her

[shut vine]

He's happy to talk about Democrats and show how they're just like Trump etc.

[foggy fern]

That's why this last one has rules saying the first to apply for various programs have to be below a certain employee and revenue size

[shut vine]

Yeah the last one she spent 100B on that Silicon Valley subway too

The state bailouts also bother me a great deal, the states worst managed get more money.

brb

[eager hawk]

and democratic socialists often attack that norm of neoliberals and corporate leaders.. see, your views, although obviously don't fully align, more align towards democratic socialist politicians than the US libertarian or republican parties 😛

[foggy fern]

"worst managed" by your metric also happens to line up with "largest population" too, doesn't it?

[restive seal]

That's how it always works, with the blue states paying extra in and the red states pulling extra out. Nothing special here covid-related.

[foggy fern]

No no, he is complaining New York and California get a bunch of money

Unless he is making the same argument as right wing media but not talking about the same states

[eager hawk]

heyyy that BART extension is gonna lead into the city i live in! I want it! XD /jk

[foggy fern]

The choice was bail out the states or watch them cut funding to road maintenance, police, teachers, etc

[pure jetty]

^^ states can't go into the same infinite debt that the federal government can

states declare bankruptcy

[foggy fern]

And just like the federal government some parts of their budget are easier to trim down than others

The ones easiest to trim down are also the ones no one wants to trim, generally 😛

states can't declare bankruptcy either, pretty sure that would require an amendment

[eager hawk]

that bart extension is costing insane loads of taxpayer money, i genuinely wonder why? my current understanding is because we've already developed a ton of infrastructure and building new infrastructure on top of already developed land is a long process, land is expensive in silicon valley, building materials have skyrocketed with inflation factored in compared to decades ago, and eminent domain stuff too probably.

[foggy fern]

https://www.investopedia.com/can-u-s-states-declare-bankruptcy-4843140

[pure jetty]

ah then i misspoke

but they still cannot go into infinite debt

[foggy fern]

States declaring bankruptcy would also go against the U.S. constitution, said the Council of State Governments. According to the contracts clause (Article 1 Section 10) states are barred from "impairing the obligation of contracts." The U.S Supreme Court in 1977 interpreted this as "a state cannot refuse to meet its legitimate financial obligations simply because it would prefer to spend the money to promote the public good rather than the private welfare of its creditors."

[pure jetty]

right, they are strictly bound by their budgets and cannot overspend like the feds

[foggy fern]

They can go in to debt (assuming they don't have their own laws or state constitutional restrictions on that) but can't refuse to pay back that debt

State debt usually has a lower rating too so they don't get as much for it

[pure jetty]

yep

[foggy fern]

So going in to debt hurts them more than it hurts the federal government, it's more expensive and harder to manage

[restive seal]

Ah, the population and (in case of NY at least) hit hard early problem.

[pure jetty]

how dare the states with the biggest populations get more money! ||/s||

[eager hawk]

https://theintercept.com/2021/03/08/nevada-democratic-party-dsa/ whaaat

[foggy fern]

It was Reid who successfully maneuvered in 2008 to make Nevada the first presidential caucus in the West. His reasoning was simple: He wanted presidential candidates to have to take a position on whether nuclear waste should be stored at Yucca Mountain. More precisely, he wanted that position to be no. In exchange for Barack Obama’s promise to scuttle the Yucca Mountain project, Reid endorsed him, after encouraging him to run. It worked: Obama appointed a former aide of Reid’s to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission with instructions to halt the project.

😦

Instead of finding a way to work with the newcomers, the Reid machine is setting up an independent shop. Reid declined to comment.

jeez

neo-liberals running for their lives 😛

[eager hawk]

hahahaha

[foggy fern]

That reminds me, people are viewing the stimulus bill as a possible sign that the neoliberal era is finally over, we're moving past Reaganism

I don't think it'll ever actually happen but it'd be nice

[pure jetty]

so long as republicans are near majority control i doubt you'll see an end to neoliberalism

[foggy fern]

Just getting most or all of the Democrats to agree neoliberalism is bad would be nice

[pure jetty]

you'll probably see more social democrats in democratic states but democratic socialists are far from ever being popular

[shut vine]

The problem I see with many things in this area is that I see economic policy, social policy, and organizational policy are vastly different things.

I think my social policy ideas generally aligns more left, but my economic policy ideas aligns more right as well as my organizational policy ideas.

[foggy fern]

When laissez-faire economics led to catastrophe in 1929, Keynes devised a comprehensive economic theory to replace it. When Keynesian demand management hit the buffers in the 70s, there was an alternative ready. But when neoliberalism fell apart in 2008 there was ... nothing. This is why the zombie walks.

This is a good point and I'm not sure I've heard of anyone proposing a solution

[shut vine]

Also my point was not about big states, it's about states with smaller populations getting more because they were Democrat.

If you were able to show that the relief was based on state population that'd be interesting though.

[shut vine]

My issue with the BART extension is that it shouldn't really be a priority for a relief bill.

Infrastructure costs money. As to why it costs so much I'm not sure, but I don't think my actual issue with it is the cost more the priorities are wrong.

[shut vine]

I'd be happy to base the relief purely on amount each state contributes to federal taxes. That's a brilliant idea.

You could realistically base all state support around that model. Then states could impose trade tariffs between each other etc. Wonder if that's already a thing, probably is.

[tough cedar]

states can't impose tariffs on other states...

[foggy fern]

We tried that once, decided it was a bad idea a few years later and wrote a thing about it

[shut vine]

Well I mean, then the model falls flat realistically.

Did you watch the NIT videos btw?

[eager hawk]

reason why mitch mcconnell is important for kentuckians to have in the senate is due to the disproportionately higher amount of federal funding per capita they receive due to his power compared to other states, iirc

[foggy fern]

I'm not big on videos, clips sure, articles yeah, videos only if I don't have anything else to watch

[eager hawk]

i haven't yet, ill take a watch when i can 🙂

[foggy fern]

So I might but it might take a few days 😛

[eager hawk]

@shut vine would you be interested in me backing up this claim?

[shut vine]

No I'm aware and I'm not a fan of it.

[eager hawk]

yeah frick the gop :/

[shut vine]

Well it's politicians in general. They want their constituents to vote them back in, so if they don't get the best deal for their base they can they are going to be less popular. I don't really have a solution to that problem that doesn't involve smaller government.

I'm more for decreasing federal taxes in general and increasing state taxes, by the way. Since states generally are vastly different. This is one of the reasons why.

[eager hawk]

so basically more state senate/state assembly governing/legislating power? i think that's a fine plan

[eager hawk]

valid argument :)

[shut vine]

Yeah, ultimately the most effective government is more local

[eager hawk]

also hope you can check this out, so that you have a clearer conception of democratic socialism. i'd be happy to argue you out with some of their stances, i don't agree with all their policies either. https://www.dsausa.org/about-us/what-is-democratic-socialism/

[eager hawk]

i agree, not enough media coverage on them either. like i've heard near to none about state reps besides gavin newsom, maybe the national house reps for my district, and the senators.

[shut vine]

Yeah I will now

[eager hawk]

also, if you prefer, we can talk about australian politics, since they more directly affect you; i can learn about your system and have conversations on it. our conversation has been heavily skewed towards US political issues and i kind of feel bad about it knowing that you can't really make much of a direct impact :)

[shut vine]

I feel like many of the issues America is facing right now Australia is facing.

I actually have relatives in the US anyway.

[eager hawk]

ah gotcha, well whichever way you prefer, i am down to talk on it :)

[shut vine]

Also think America is the blueprint for most modern western governments

The foundation of America was an opposition to colonialism and the monarchy in my eyes.

Rather, we believe that social and economic decisions should be made by those whom they most affect. is an interesting idea, not sure I think that's a good solution though.

That's very similar to less civilized practices like the victim deciding the punishment for the perpetrator.

DSA seem very Utopian and Marxist in their ideals. More so than I initially realized.

[pure jetty]

Socialism is pretty much "Capitalism sucks lets totally change it into a system that has either never been proven to work and/or fails on some level"

[shut vine]

We believe that the workers and consumers who are affected by economic institutions should own and control them.

[pure jetty]

Personally, I think heavily regulating Capitalism is a far better solution than totally resetting the entire system

[shut vine]

Possible today, doesn't generally work in practice.

Forcing that on people doesn't seem very sound either.

I wouldn't say heavily, but I think we need both sides to achieve a reasonable balance.

[pure jetty]

socialism is a lot of ideas that are awesome in theory, but once you apply it into a political reality, its not really good

[shut vine]

We need the hierarchy, but we also need to make sure it doesn't get out of control.

[pure jetty]

I'm more of a social democrat and prefer more socially provided services on top of Capitalism

[shut vine]

Yea I'm similar in the broad sense.

[eager hawk]

utopian i agree. yeah i'm glad i defamiliarized you from your prior perspective on DSA.

[pure jetty]

unchecked capitalism is pretty bad and full on socialism is unrealistic

in the middle is social democracy

[shut vine]

The meaning of utopia in Latin is "nowhere".

Just FYI

[eager hawk]

hahaha

well in my mind utopian = idealistic so

[shut vine]

i.e. people who use it to say "ideal society" are actually saying "something that'll never happen".

[foggy fern]

So long as We believe that the workers and consumers who are affected by economic institutions should own and control them. means shareholders, coops, etc and not government ownership I don't see anything that could be argued against there 😄

[eager hawk]

with that being said, many of the ideas in DSA seem realistic and approachable.

[shut vine]

So their idea has nothing wrong with the person who owns the company controlling it?

[pure jetty]

seems to vary based on the flavor

[shut vine]

er, you know what I mean.

[pure jetty]

i see some people saying its fine others saying all workers should own equally the means of production

[eager hawk]

i think this is the solution provided by DSA. they admit it's impossible to overthrow capitalism itself. think they covered it under the question:
"Private corporations seem to be a permanent fixture in the US, so why work towards socialism?"

[eager hawk]

Today, corporate executives who answer only to themselves and a few wealthy stockholders make basic economic decisions affecting millions of people. Resources are used to make money for capitalists rather than to meet human needs. We believe that the workers and consumers who are affected by economic institutions should own and control them.

[pure jetty]

their answer to that seems to be "regulate capitalism"

[eager hawk]

ya

[pure jetty]

unions too, which I don't have a problem with

I haven't heard a good argument against them at least

[eager hawk]

please we need them, help tesla and amazon workers

[pure jetty]

i would say amazon first lmfao

Tesla doesn't seem like as near as a sweat shop as amazon 😄

[shut vine]

Why are there no models of democratic socialism? Although no country has fully instituted democratic socialism this question/answer bugs me too, feels like they're trying to say current examples even though they have failures are not the full realization of their ideas thus can't really be compared.

I may be reading too much into it though

For me it's either anyone can have a union or no one can.

Equal Protection Clause and all

[eager hawk]

their success/failure results seem better than the struggles of the equivalent systems we have in the US

[eager hawk]

if it's between the two then anyone should be able to

[shut vine]

I'm more for unions without political affiliation than with too

So police unions are fine?

[pure jetty]

I'm gonna disagree with this, there hasn't been any widespread socialism to compare this to

even most (if not all) of the socialism advocated to in the US aren't anywhere near the levels in the EU

most of the EU seems like checked-capitalism

[eager hawk]

they suck, but yes they are fine, there's just issues with corruption mostly with those unions right? so basically the general stance would be any union is fine but regulate and have checks and balance on corruption or smt

[shut vine]

The socialism proposed by the DSA is much closer to Venezuela than the Nordic states.

Well that's my take anyway.

[eager hawk]

are the examples presented in the Q&A portion not enough of a "widespread" thing?

[pure jetty]

of the variant they propose, yes

[shut vine]

Well you see, unions that have affiliations with anyone but the worker and the employer are prone to corruption.

Also yeah as the DSA website says itself, it's not its own party, it's part of the Democrat (DNC) party.

[eager hawk]

Second, no matter what we call ourselves, conservatives will use it against us. Anti-socialism has been repeatedly used to attack reforms that shift power to working class people and away from corporate capital. In 1993, national health insurance was attacked as “socialized medicine” and defeated. Liberals are routinely denounced as socialists in order to discredit reform. Until we face, and beat, the stigma attached to the “S word,” politics in America will continue to be stifled and our options limited.
facts

[shut vine]

The DSA complains about Stiff competition from low-wage labor markets in developing countries and the constant fear that industry will move to avoid taxes and strong labor regulations but fails to realize the lowest wage labor markets are mostly socialist.

[eager hawk]

yup, glad that got clarified. kinda sucks to have a two-party system

[shut vine]

Or communist

[eager hawk]

bangladesh/vietnam/china are fiscally socialist?

[shut vine]

China is, not sure about bangladesh/vietnam.

Okay that's two.

"Oh but China isn't my pure idea of socialism".

[pure jetty]

Bangladesh is capitalism ish

China is a fuckin crazy

they got some type of capitalism

[shut vine]

"Oh but America isn't my pure idea of Capitalism".

[pure jetty]

but the government owns some of it

and the citizens are taken care of

its a hodge podge

[shut vine]

I thought mostly Hong Kong was capitalist and rest was mostly socialist economies?

[eager hawk]

ive heard china is fiscally capitalist. their companies/stocks and stuff seem to run like a capitalist empire with alibaba, huawei, etc from my perspective

[pure jetty]

i think the official term is a mixed socialist market economy

[eager hawk]

but that's just an assumption and some tidbits of info i read on china in the past so i may be wrong

[eager hawk]

ah there we go

[shut vine]

Ah so kinda like DSA are suggesting

The socialist market economy (SME) is the economic system and model of economic development employed in the People's Republic of China. The system is based on the predominance of public ownership and state-owned enterprises within a market economy.

[eager hawk]

the two paragraph response here sounds utopian to me too lol

though with that being said, without the forces of DSA i dont see any climate related legislation passing in time in the federal government before it's too late. as long as this current system of capitalism primarily favoring shareholders and executives and slapping aside a PR showing a company's "wokeness" and their "dedication" towards working on climate change is the norm, we're just heading towards a catastrophe, starting off with hurting developing countries first

[shut vine]

I actually think the thing that'd best benefit to federal American politics is a national standard for federal elections. Including RCV, voting methods, and voter ID requirements. But I highly doubt large reform of any meaning is available in the current political climate.

[eager hawk]

I AGREE WITH RCV :D

[shut vine]

My point was there really needs to be a national standard.

Especially one that empowers people to vote for who they want instead of the two party thing.

[eager hawk]

from what i see DSA affiliated politicians will have to be the ones that have to lead neoliberals these three charges. republicans will exist just to create voter suppression bills

[eager hawk]

yesyesyesyesyesyes

[shut vine]

Well neoliberalism isn't related as far as I can tell

[eager hawk]

RCV will allow for that vote-for-who-you-want without compromising the benefits of a two party system

[eager hawk]

i guess i should've said established corporate democrats? like non-DSA democrats

[shut vine]

Ah. Gotcha.

[eager hawk]

https://www.fairvote.org/get_involved

https://www.fairvote.org/the_ranked_choice_voting_act

actually some established corporate democrats have sponsored this act too

[shut vine]

Yeah I'm not a fan of that specifically, but for federal I think it makes sense.

States should really control local elections, giving power to the states locally and all.

[eager hawk]

https://www.fairvote.org/rcv#where_is_ranked_choice_voting_used

rcv has been more implemented than i originally thought

[shut vine]

RCV should just be most votes win.

Runoffs are an issue in my mind

[eager hawk]

yeah there's the method of having it all be completed in a single round, since youre ranking choices

[shut vine]

Well not most votes, but most scaled votes.

[eager hawk]

scaled?

all of the sponsors for RCV are democrats too

[shut vine]

So, if you vote for candidate A as your first choice, and there are 20 candidates, you give candidate A 20 scaled votes.

2nd person gets 19.

etc

[eager hawk]

did you read the article i linked, this one? https://www.fairvote.org/the_ranked_choice_voting_act

[shut vine]

Simple system which picks the most popular candidate without a runoff.

In races where voters select one winner, if a candidate receives more than half of the first choices, that candidate wins, just like in any other election. However, if there is no majority winner after counting first choices, the race is decided by an "instant runoff." The candidate with the fewest votes is eliminated, and voters who picked that candidate as ‘number 1’ will have their votes count for their next choice. This process continues until there’s a majority winner or a candidate won with more than half of the vote.

They're over complicating it from what I can tell

Maybe they're just explaining it a different way

[eager hawk]

not really, the infographic explains it well imo

[shut vine]

I'm fine with the candidate with the most 1st choice votes winning, but after that it should be a very basic mathematical equation.

The 50% requirement is a bad idea imo.

[eager hawk]

why so? i'm confused with the reasons for your concerns, this system seems to work fine, and is much better than the two party alternative.

[shut vine]

Though I'd probably have to think on it more to be sure.

[eager hawk]

having the 50% requirement would mean there would never be a candidate with more opposition winning an election.

[shut vine]

Not in the method they described it.

With more candidates the likelihood of that increases too.

Well I'm fairly certain of that fact, I'd have to simulate it to be sure.

[eager hawk]

id be interested in hearing it :)

https://www.fairvote.org/fair_rep_in_congress#why_we_need_the_fair_representation_act

there's also this act, i think it's a good way (obv not best) way to solve gerrymandering, what do you think?

[shut vine]

The complexity isn't needed though, if you add up the popularity of each candidate based on the position they are ranked, it should produce the fairest results.

[eager hawk]

https://democracyjournal.org/arguments/ranked-choice-voting-is-not-the-solution/

i have a feeling this article covers your concerns

but the arguments presented are weak

[shut vine]

I'd be interested in what a statistician says about the specific model.

[eager hawk]

https://mathbooks.unl.edu/Contemporary/sec-5-1-rcv.html

this maybe?

i took an intro college level stats class in high school but that's about it so

oo it used australian government as an example

http://www.citizen-statistician.org/2013/11/ranked-choice-voting/

another one

the arguments i see are "exhaustion" and "unconvincing majority" but those can be refuted with 1) just have people make sure they put in as many choices as they can in their ballot, otherwise their vote wouldn't have mattered if it were just a traditional voting system, 2) the example stated in the first anti-rcv article shows how people can vote for their preferred third party as first choice but still cast another vote for the candidate that matters

[shut vine]

Realistically I don't think we should allow people to partially fill it out.

[eager hawk]

encourage them via grassroots campaigning to fill them out as complete as they can would be the solution. unless you only have one candidate you support and absolutely disagree with all other candidates

this idea makes too much sense i just signed up to volunteer for the org lmao

[shut vine]

Yeah as the analysis points out, RCV is not on it's own the solution, how you implement it dictates how fair it is.

Well that is one option, or not accepting incomplete ballots.

[eager hawk]

ehhh encouragement to fill it out as complete as they can seems to be the best solution. not accepting incomplete ballots would fall closer into voter suppression.

[eager hawk]

yup, it'll be difficult in the beginning but won't be hard to get it implemented to the point where we start seeing more benefits than the existing two party solution.

[shut vine]

Generally getting it relatively right the first time is important with these things. As you can probably see making changes is hard.

Doesn't take too much effort to simulate a few elections with varying candidate pools to see what results look like and decide if they are fair.

[eager hawk]

we've seen a lot of city-level legislation implementing RCV along with the state of maine implementing it, we can look at how it's gone for them to see if it's applicable to work at the national level

[eager hawk]

having seen scenarios i think it's a better solution than the two party solution

[shut vine]

If you run the different model ideas in a simulation with random candidates with random alignment with random votes it should quickly identify how good a system is over the course of about 10-20 election cycles.

It hasn't been implemented..

[eager hawk]

https://www.fairvote.org/rcv#where_is_ranked_choice_voting_used

i will link this again

[shut vine]

That's not the same system, it's a similar system.

They are not saying it's literally that system

[eager hawk]

http://www.oaklandrcv.com/

so it seems like for example in oakland they do RCV, but automatically go towards the results of an instant runoff. basically making it so that we receive data on how people vote.

[shut vine]

RCV is not RCV

Thought we already established this

http://www.citizen-statistician.org/2013/11/ranked-choice-voting/

[eager hawk]

...not that im aware of

[shut vine]

How you implement it matters, not that it's RCV

[eager hawk]

are we past the argument that some form of RCV is better than a two-party system?

cause if so then yeah let's discuss further on the different forms of rcv and their methods of implementation

[shut vine]

Yea we are, I literally proposed RCV lol

I brought it up

You silly goose

[eager hawk]

i am indeed a silly goose 😂

sorry

for some reason i thought you were a two-party supporter and once again, a brain fart 😂

[shut vine]

It's fine, I just get the feeling sometimes you're not reading what I'm saying

[eager hawk]

yeah my fault for that, and sorry for the times i've gotten heated towards you during these past two days of convo

[shut vine]

We both have, it's a heated topic

I don't mind that specifically

[eager hawk]

think it's also my lack of understanding of fundamental political theories/terminologies since there was never a proper government class in my high school

as you said, the school system in the US is lame af. i went to a better off school, and look at my lack of understanding of political theory lmao

anyways i gtg, let's talk another time :)

[shut vine]

ciao 🙂 also yea

[foggy fern]

https://www.axios.com/congress-schedule-vaccinations-2f2a1aca-2204-4f54-a396-c9939fe28c05.html

[torn wadi]

Refuse a shot? Get shot. Simple.

[foggy fern]

iirc they need 80% before they can even consider "herd immunity" covering the rest

Some of those 25% without it right now have legitimate reasons, I'm sure

[median hemlock]

Get shot or get a blood clot?
How about you keep your psychopathic soviet era fantasies away from regular people?
It's almost as if blindly trusting big pharma is a completely idiotic thing, and people
wonder why I don't take a shot. Doctors are fully capable of being either bribed, corrupt or simply wrong
like everyone else. And considering the massive failure that is the obesity issue, I'd say they are all 3.

[torn wadi]

Or maybe, you look at the results and don't fucking use AstraZeneca?

You still have free will over what vaccine you want to get. No one is forcing your to take the worst one. This ain't soviet Russia anymore.

[median hemlock]

You have free will.
Take the shot or I will kill you.
👍

[torn wadi]

Never specified what kind of shot.

[blazing junco]

Fact.

[blazing junco]

This is so misinformed.

[median hemlock]

A nerf gun bullet or something similar? Mmhmm 😏

[near glen]

I mean, there is no effidence that astra zeneca leads to increased chances of blood clot

It's mostly fud

Iirc the other one had twice the percentage

It can happen with any vaccine

[foggy fern]

Huh, so some people say only 10% of the American Rescue Plan is for COVID but they're for the $1400 checks and business loans and bailouts that are in the bill

[near glen]

Imagine if ppl would stop only reading headlines

[foggy fern]

Just the $1400 checks is 21% of the bill, the only thing that would be ~10% would be the part that's specifically for vaccination

So technically, yes, only 10% is for directly fighting COVID, the rest is for handling the fallout of COVID existing

But they bring up the 10% number in a way that implies the bill should have only been that 10%

They want it both ways, they want to attack the bill for spending 10x too much but also claim to support over half the spending in the bill

I guess I haven't been keeping up with right wing news enough lately, first time I saw the 10% thing

[opal moat]

i think the UK said something that they will continue using it because the percentage of people with blood cloths after getting vaccinated with it was the same as the percentage in the regular population

[near glen]

Yeah

Same here

My mom got it Friday

My company is trying to buy vaccine, that's fun

[opal moat]

I hope i can get it soon. I'm a high risk group and they are slowly starting with us

My mom got it yesterday as a teacher

[foggy fern]

I never did get that critical infrastructure bump in line but even if I did in my state I think that would mean I'd only be able to even try to get an appointment this week

[opal moat]

(my mom is in Germany, I'm in Austria)

[foggy fern]

They basically tossed that part of the CDC vaccine playbook for this one

[near glen]

Yeah my mom works for a Kindergarden

My aunt is working at a dentist, she got it two weeks ago

My grand ma got it on Saturday i think

So the priorization doesn't work at all here, since elderly were supposed to get it before teachers, but i think that train long passed 😂

[opal moat]

I'd like to not be scared of dying every time i go out

Or, let me rephrase that, I'm not opposed to death but I don't want painful lung failure death

[near glen]

https://youtu.be/XMGxxRRtmHc

To me it's fastinating how ppl like tucker manage to manipulate so many ppl so deeply

He's clearly good at what he's doing

Now imagine he hasn't a prick and would fight for a good cause, lmao

[foggy fern]

I still can't get over how he managed to get involved in TV "news"

He just started pretending to be a subject matter expert for various things so networks could fill the seats on their opinion panels

[pure jetty]

Yeah a toddler could go on his show and he'd just sit there and say "Yeah that's right" to anything the toddler said

[eager hawk]

College students in the US here are taking advantage from the fact that they qualify under the "education sector" for vaccine priority by being enrolled as an employee via RA, TA, working for the newspaper, and have been getting vaccinated. Have mixed feelings especially with those who haven't followed social distancing protocol, but at least my turn should be coming soon, sadly I've been on a voluntary LOA so

And writing some legislation saying student employees aren't included in the "education sector" seems kinda too much idealistic work involved tbh

[small root]

I think they should get it as they are a group that spreads it more, if the vaccine reduces spread

Every time they go home they are risking infecting their family, and starting a spreader event

My university has had thousands of cases and at one point we were 10% positive rate

[pure jetty]

^

[near glen]

Since talked about this earlier, found some hard facts

Uk numbers

Out of 10 million doses of each, that are the numbers of blood clots

That's not higher than what you see in the normal population, so there's no increased risk

For any of the vaccine

This whole "astra zeneca is bad" FUD is just dum

Just get whatever approved vaccine you can

[torn wadi]

I like how only 1 reaction is shown.

[near glen]

meanwhile germany just stopped AZ

fuck us, lmfao

we now finally have a working vaccine in good enough quantities and new we stopping because somebody shared some links on fucking facebook

[foggy fern]

I think it's fair to say that 3 months of preliminary testing is not giving the same safety guarantees as the normal vaccine process

[near glen]

but what about the real world experience?

[foggy fern]

I'm surprised the allergic reactions have only been twice the average for other vaccines in the US

It's not the worst for reactions though

Not the AZ one, the biontech one (and the moderna one was basically the same)

mRNA treatments are known to cause such reactions though, that's why they've basically failed for long term treatment schemes

[eager hawk]

Was it the government's decision, many of whom haven't taken science classes in a long time and aren't specialized in it, and not the scientists' decision, to pull back the vaccine I'm assuming?

[near glen]

yeah experts criticize the move here

[foggy fern]

By allergic reaction I mean grab the epipen and pump them full of benadryl kinds of reactions, not just some mild rash or something

That's why they have you stay for 15 minutes after your shot for observation

[near glen]

you sure you got a vaccine and not vodka?

easy to mix up, both clear

😄

[shy gulch]

It’s crazy how differently some people react

I notice absolutely nothing after a vaccine

It’s almost like I never got it

[near glen]

as most ppl

you only hear about the reactions if there are any 😄

[shy gulch]

Well we think most people react normally but recently I’ve heard so much, even from close friends and stuff.

Not any anti-vax shit

Just weird symptoms or reactions

Pal of mine felt like shit after getting the COVID vaccine

[near glen]

well, reactions are normal, even getting fever for a day is normal

its your immune system working, that natural

[shy gulch]

I never knew that

Honestly

Never had a fever after a vaccine

[near glen]

generally, the stronger your immune system, the stronger it fights to the "threat" that you get injected when you get a vaccine, so the more energy it pulls out of your body

[shy gulch]

With something like the flu vaccine there shouldn’t be much of any fight. Considering the portion they are putting into is dead/inactive.

[near glen]

yes and no

the virus itself will not infect you, so you get no flu symtoms cause you dont get the flu

but, your immune system doesnt know that

thats the whole idea

[shy gulch]

Right

[near glen]

your immune system thinks its real, so it produces stuff to fight, so when the real deal comes, its prepared

[shy gulch]

But whatever reaction your body has should be only how your body reacts to the dead virus. The virus should not cause anything more then the body to react.

I’m not entirely sure how the COVID vaccines work

But can people genuinely experience a fever after something like a flu shot?

[pure jetty]

depends on which one you're talking about;

moderna/pfizer = mRNA vaccine which is basically just instructions sent to your immune system of what a spike protein is
j&j = traditional vaccine

[shy gulch]

Traditional as in injecting a inactive portion of the virus?

[pure jetty]

right

[shy gulch]

One of them requires two shots, right?

[pure jetty]

mRNA ones yeah

that's because they tried it with one and it wasn't as effective

once they tried it with two they found it was much more effective

[shy gulch]

I see, The mRNA is the one I’ve heard people experience uncomfort with

Nothing serious

Head aches and stuff. Shit that made them want a day off work and stuff.

Nothing that would want me to rather have a chance of getting the virus

[pure jetty]

usually the same side effects with all vaccines since they use your immune system and those are just a byproduct of that

[near glen]

AZ is traditional and still requires two shots

[pure jetty]

since using your immune system to fight a virus (or weak/fake one in this case) causes your body to spend a lot of resources on it

leading to some sideeffects

to my understanding anyway

[near glen]

yeah, thats the feeling like shit, headache, fever kinda stuff

thats totally expected and goes away after a day

[shy gulch]

Same shit that causes ignorant people to think they have caught the virus from the vaccine 🙄

[foggy fern]

btw Germany claims their decision to stop using the AZ vaccine comes from the experts

Spahn said the decision followed a recommendation from the Paul Ehrlich Institute (PEI), Germany’s authority in charge of vaccines, following newly registered cases of thrombosis.

afaik basically all symptoms of the flu, covid, ebola, colds, etc are your immune system, not the virus itself

You get different symptoms for different illnesses because of what they infect

[pure jetty]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGuwXSe6tAw

good video :))

[eager hawk]

haha i can already tell what's gonna be covered in that video

[near glen]

yeah that was later, different experts said different things this morning

they plan to resume within the week

[foggy fern]

Conditionally, surely

Otherwise why even stop? 😛

[near glen]

yeah

they just wanna look at stuff

[smoky hedge]

Ngl stopping the AZ vaccine makes no sense to me, as far as I can tell the rates of blood clots are literally just normal rates for a population of that size over the time period?

[dusky raft]

all of them have their rare issues, sadly its the news outlets and social media nitpicking on specific ones...

[shut vine]

I wonder if this means they'll remove the embargo

[near glen]

The more I read into the AZ stuff the more angry I get

If you look at the side effects at biontech

Vaccine are always a risk, everybody knows that

They get approved if the risk of the vaccine is less than the risk of the virus

And that didn't change

Can't find an english source, but like, biontech caused 15 ppl to be blind

For the reason they stopped AZ, they are not even sure its related to the vaccine at all...

It's just that every day you stop vaccinating, ppl continue to die

156 deaths yesterday 🤷‍♂️

[deep ravine]

That's just politics in my eyes. Nothing a reasonable person could do about that

[near glen]

Well, we can, we can raise our voices

[shy gulch]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/814477587769327648/817914726151356426/a_536506694d73af655259a493e8d48bf9.gif

[foggy fern]

wat https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-outlaw-protests-that-are-noisy-or-cause-annoyance-2021-3

[pure jetty]

lol so all protests?

[foggy fern]

"I'm gonna get arrested for this, may as well chuck a brick through a window while I'm at it"

[restive seal]

They didn't get rid of Boris yet? That's my takeaway here.

Also wow what a massive attack on protests

[foggy fern]

Hmm, thinking about it, what's the difference between a property tax and a wealth tax?

Both are every year taxing you based on the value of something you own

[eager hawk]

I think the term wealth tax encompasses all forms of tax on your assets, with property tax being one

[pure jetty]

depends if you consider wealth something you own

kinda an inbetween

ik there's also debate on if a wealth tax is even legal

something something "taxes are defined as direct taxes"

and a wealth tax would probably encourage people to keep less cash on hand

unless you'd be taxing all assets rather than just cash on hand

[foggy fern]

The tax wouldn't be based on your cash on hand, it'd be your net worth

[shut vine]

<insert people having fake debts to avoid it>

[foggy fern]

The actual proposal I'm looking at is a tax on the market value of companies paid in stock

[pure jetty]

in that case idk if i agree with taxing net worth

[foggy fern]

So I guess for people it'd just be all your assets, not your net

[pure jetty]

not all assets are liquid

for example someone like Musk or Boozo

they got a lot of stock which isn't easily turned into liquid, why should they be taxed on that

[foggy fern]

"All my money is in property" isn't a valid excuse for someone to avoid their property taxes, don't see why it would be for this either

Although this particular proposal is based on making at least some payments using stock

https://moores.samaltman.com/

[shut vine]

So if your net worth is 1B, you get taxed on that in year 1, if your net worth is 1B - tax in year 2, do you get taxed again?

[foggy fern]

Yes

Just like property tax, you don't only pay it once or only pay on the value increase

[shut vine]

I'm against both taxes, tax people on their use of the economy, not their lack of use

[foggy fern]

That's why I said they were similar

[shut vine]

Doing both is unreasonable

[foggy fern]

Check out the "Capitalism for Everyone" section of the above link

part 3

This is for an "AI runs everything" world

But the way he explains it made me realize the two taxes work the same way (which is why he picked them)

[shut vine]

Yeah tax on labor is only one part of it.

[pure jetty]

a house/property is a liquid asset though

you can liquidate it if you can no longer afford the taxes on it

[foggy fern]

I don't know of any legal reason Musk or Bezos couldn't sell all their shares

They'd have to announce it ahead of time and it'd kill the stock but they could do it

And they would never have to sell all of it, they're selling some every year anyway

[pure jetty]

they'd also lose part of control of their company

why is that a good idea to you

and I don't elon has ever sold any of his shares

could be wrong on that but I remember seeing that in various places

[foggy fern]

Technically he'd have to have sold some otherwise no one would own any

[shut vine]

The company owns shares in an IPO

[pure jetty]

^

[shut vine]

What you're suggesting is embezzlement

[foggy fern]

I didn't think his companies had IPO'd

[shut vine]

But they are shares in the company either way

[pure jetty]

The company always starts off with the shares and gives them to its employees

[shut vine]

He doesn't own them from the outset, the company does

[pure jetty]

not the other way around

[foggy fern]

To get ownership of a company either they can issue more shares and dilute mine then issue those to you or I can sell you some of mine

This is for private companies, I don't know how it works for public ones

It depends on if the company is looking to make money or I am

[pure jetty]

the former decreases stock price and the latter is called a stock buyback and raises the price

which yes both are ways for the company to get more stock

and spread to employees

but back to wealth tax

you shouldn't need to pay tax on an asset you can't sell practically

[foggy fern]

In a world like Sam Altman is describing you either do something like he is proposing or prepare for the guillotines. The specifics can be argued over if/when we actually need them

I just thought it was an interesting point that a wealth tax works the same way as a property tax

[shut vine]

I mean if you selectively exclude all the new jobs that would be required

[foggy fern]

What new jobs would be required in a world where you can combine robots from Boston Dynamics with an AI advanced enough it can handle programming and scientific discovery too?

[shut vine]

Improving the AI, most things hospitality, etc.

[foggy fern]

He is predicting an AI that can improve itself better than we can aka the singularity

[shut vine]

Ah I see. Unlikely due to the problem of common sense.

I mean IBM Watson has 150M+ common sense rules from memory, and that list is barely exhaustive

[foggy fern]

Biden says "hopefully by July 4th you'll be able to celebrate with friends and family", McConnell says "vaccinated people can already do that" like he owned him or something

No shit vaccinated people can already do that, the point is getting everyone vaccinated

[restive seal]

Always a charming character.

Meanwhile, The Onion keeping it real

https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1372265496599535622

The Onion (@TheOnion)

Sympathetic Police Know What It’s Like To Have A Bad Day And Kill 8 People https://t.co/O6MCzgA4Ii

Retweets

17075

Likes

48294

Twitter · Mar 17, 2021, 7:16 PM

[eager hawk]

The fact that the headline isn't that far from reality is appalling

[eager hawk]

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/543694-officer-faces-criticism-for-saying-suspected-georgia-shooter-had-a-really-bad

*is reality, not close to reality 🤦🏻‍♂️

With the headline

[dusky raft]

sounds to me like he was commenting like this as a mental illness case, and used very incorrect wording.

[eager hawk]

mental illness i hate the media, domestic terrorism/hate crime is the correct terminology to describe these attacks. this was not a lone wolf incident, but a part of the system that fosters the thought of white supremacy and xenophobia. This increased pattern of attacks and crime against AAPI individuals is not a coincidence

[dusky raft]

I'd blame a lot of things: facebook, twitter, media outlets.

[eager hawk]

add Trump to the list

fb and twt i agree that their algorithm favors radicalization and significant bias in their content feed, it's made the problem worse.

[dusky raft]

Well I'm not huge into the whole xenophobic trumpism, but he hasnt condemned the more radical parts of his group, but at the same time, my guess would be he would be talking to a brick wall with C4 strapped to the otherside.

[eager hawk]

whether you're "huge" on it or not it's a fact. media and individual twitter accounts may exaggerate his impacts but it's a fact :)

[dusky raft]

I will not defend trump when it comes to his inflated ego, as he can build a second tower with it. However, politicians attacked trump even before he went into office, and even after. I don't believe what the democrats truly want him to be. What shocks me is that the democrats didnt use pardons so it can be used against him.

[eager hawk]

"politicians attacked trump" uhm so you're saying obama wasn't attacked by politicians before/after his presidency and biden before his presidency? i have zero clue what your point/argument is here

pardons for what? mind if you elaborate

Need me to list out some of the xenophobic/racist things Trump has done and said? Since it seems like you're just trying to encompass them into an "inflated ego" and not admitting that he is xenophobic/racist and has been a driving impact on the rise in hate crimes under and after his presidency

[dusky raft]

to start off with the pardons, if used correctly, the democrats could lure trump into a trap. It would be extremely tough to pull that off, but it would essentially self incriminate him. and can you give me an archive of messages/speeches trump has said, seems like most places have been scrubbing trump.

also the rise of hate crimes have also responded in a rise of crime in general. a day hasnt gone by without some mass shooting, bomb threats, and whatnot.

still happened under obama, hell, school shootings were some of the highlights during his 8 years.

[eager hawk]

are you... seriously trying to place causation that Obama was the driving impact on increased school shootings? if so i would like to see your sources

[dusky raft]

I never said that,

[eager hawk]

i have no clue about what you just talked about here, but it sounds ridiculously idealistic and i have no idea what your argument is here

[eager hawk]

then what was the reason for bringing up obama and school schootings?

[eager hawk]

have hate crimes and general crime been on equal correlation? no, your point is invalid unless you have an academic paper proving otherwise

[eager hawk]

didn't see your second part of your message, yeah i can, as long as you respect my time and read up on what i will send :)

[dusky raft]

I should have explained further, the media loves violence, finds the biggest thing that happened. This isnt new, and has been the case for decades.

[eager hawk]

actually just go down this list, it has most of the important quotes trump has said. yes, some are out of context but most hold up to their claims that tie to the argument trump vocalizes rhetoric that allow for hate crimes compared to previous administrations
https://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12270880/donald-trump-racist-racism-history

[eager hawk]

i already said that the media can exaggerate some things, most notably with headlines, both on the left and right, albeir more notoriously on the right. my points still stand.

[shut vine]

It's a bit intellectually dishonest to one second say Trump is a form of causation for someones individual actions then be concerned about if someone is insinuating that Obama was causation for some.

[near glen]

Lmao

America is so fucked

Racist dick murders 8 ppl

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1372203730481864713?s=19

Aaron Rupar (@atrupar)

"Yesterday was a really bad day for him and this is what he did" -- a law enforcement official explains Robert Aaron Long's decision to kill 8 people in a strange manner https://t.co/u0zFcqjbNK

Retweets

6648

Likes

21850

▶ Play video

Twitter · Mar 17, 2021, 3:10 PM

Police: he had a really bad day

Lmfao

Oh am really sorry for you, do you want a hug?

Be understanding, he had a bad day, can't blame him

[pure jetty]

eek

[shut vine]

He was racist against whites and asians?

[pure jetty]

weird words

wouldn't say america is fucked because of cops

[shut vine]

I only followed part of the story, tbh.

[pure jetty]

lmfao

[near glen]

You got a cop on national TV defending a serial murder, lol

[shut vine]

I'm not sure that is accurate.

[pure jetty]

good thing its not a judge

[pure jetty]

it's verbatim they said it

which i mean he's probably not wrong but like that's not what you say

[shut vine]

I meant I don't believe that it's accurate that he defended him, not specifically what was said.

I would probably have to see more context, but it has bad optics at least.

[near glen]

It's a fucking giant slap to the face of the families of the murdered and to the asian community as a whole

[shut vine]

The guy is clearly mentally ill, in one way or another.

The perp that is.

[pure jetty]

i mean the cop ain't too bright for saying that shit either

[shut vine]

Yea as I said, it has bad optics. Curious what the full statement was.

[pure jetty]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PnaT4xQZe8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHVIlPKpHQU

[near glen]

Well this explains it, the cop is part of the problem https://twitter.com/daveyalba/status/1372307771371163655?s=19

Davey Alba (@daveyalba)

Capt. Jay Baker of Ga's Cherokee Sheriff’s Office, who drew criticism today for his comment about the shooting deaths of 8 ppl, and who said the gunman responsible was “having a bad day,” posted a public FB link to T-shirt merch that read “Covid 19: Imported virus from Chy-na”

Retweets

752

Likes

1305

Twitter · Mar 17, 2021, 10:04 PM

[shut vine]

What about the white community since they were also victims?

[pure jetty]

"the white community" lmfao

[shut vine]

Yeah two of the people killed were white.

[pure jetty]

oh jesus christ

[near glen]

This is what happens if you have a "president" that called it a china virus all day long 🤷‍♂️

[pure jetty]

ok fuck that cop

[dusky raft]

also, isnt that in a democrat run city?

[eager hawk]

was there anything wrong with me asking Zyphys why he brought up Obama and school shootings out of nowhere, when as far as i know, there is almost near to none of incidents where obama verbalizes rhetoric that instigates divisiveness and villanization of marginalized communities; and then me coming up with the conclusion that trump's leadership and presidency most likely had an impact on this event fueled with prejudiced motives from my knowledge of how trump villanized the asian community -- and you're calling this intellectually honest? i have no clue about what you were meaning with your short-sighted comment

[eager hawk]

yeah what's the white community up to? are you guys grieving for your victims in an attack that primarily attacked east asian women? my heart goes out to their families and loved ones, and i hope they get the support they need. now then, i don't understand why you brought up "what about the white community" -- this is like saying "what about white people" when someone says BLM, read the room, don't detract from the main conversation at hand.

[shut vine]

I see, so you feel that the white community should not be upset that people of their own race are murdered? Or are you saying when a specific incident majority of a specific race the other races shouldn't be complaining?

[pure jetty]

the "white community"

[eager hawk]

i guess i was too shortsighted with the analogy with what about white people with BLM -- in this case, white victims were involved, i'm sorry for that. though why did you bring up "what about the white community"? that question still stands

[shut vine]

Because only one race had been brought up in the matter of showing sympathy. Perfectly reasonable to ask why it's not being addressed.

Unless you're racist I suppose.

In which case you could easily ignore the idea that there were multiple races affected, or we could like, I don't know, stop grouping people into races as if people from races not associated from the attack wouldn't be affected either.

Anyone who lives in the area is affected, not as directly as some.

i.e. family, friends, etc.

[eager hawk]

one of the racial groups has been a constant target recently, primarily seen to be instigated due to trump's blame on the covid 19 pandemic on China, insisting on calling it the chinese/china virus/kong flu. the other community is of the majority race, and has fewer publicized incidents of being targeted due to their race. there's a reason why there's heightened worries for the AAPI community.

did the perpetrator purposefully target three salons with primarily east asian employees? i think that, i don't know, there's probably a racial issue here that needs to be addressed.

[shut vine]

Until we know the motivations of the killer it's a bit presumptive to really be saying that it's related.

It's possible, and some would argue likely. But I'd love to see your sources showing it's related if you have any.

Otherwise you're just spouting divisive rhetoric

[dusky raft]

I dont think it should be jumped to conclusion that the motive is truly racial.

what was it, 8 women shot?

[shut vine]

Yeah, 8 women.

[dusky raft]

could be considered sexist at face value

[shut vine]

Based on the report I'm guessing they're working girls.

He was allegedly "sex addicted"

I don't know for sure, obviously. They've not really said.

[eager hawk]

i don't think it should be a concrete conclusion that the shooting was racially motivating, but i think it is a concrete conclusion that the perp attacked salons, which disproportionately have higher percentages of female asian employees. it should also be a conclusion that anti-asian hate is most definitely on the rise from all the incidents we have seen lately, and the AAPI community is on heightened fear of being out in public getting attacked unprovoked.

[shut vine]

I see, so divisive rhetoric it is

[dusky raft]

It should be determined by a court of law, not by pressure by activist groups

[eager hawk]

the fuck?

[eager hawk]

the actual fuck?

[shut vine]

You're jumping to conclusions and assuming it's racially motivated without even a sliver of evidence.

[eager hawk]

i don't think it should be a concrete conclusion that the shooting was racially motivating
do you not read what i write

[shut vine]

I did, you categorized the salons as mostly Asian females, then concluded the attack was racist because of that and the fact that you believe anti-asian hate is on the rise.

[eager hawk]

"i believe anti asian hate is on the rise" nice to know you've been completely ignorant on the news recently

[eager hawk]

i provided a theory that the attack was racist. literally i said we shouldn't come to a concrete conclusion that the shooting was racially motivating. can you read today james?

claiming a conclusion and providing a theory are two different things, in my opinion, if that wasn't clear.

[shut vine]

It seemed like you were suggesting you didn't need concrete evidence, more than anything.

I didn't get the impression you were saying what you just described at all.

[eager hawk]

categorized the salons as mostly Asian females
because they are when you look at the statistics?? i guess you aren't aware of this since you never grew up in the US, but icymi there are higher correlation of asian females in salons in the US.

[eager hawk]

well now you know, hope you can shut up with your false assumptions now.

[shut vine]

Stop acting like a child.

[eager hawk]

sorry but this has been a relatively triggering event for me as an asian living in the US.

[eager hawk]

ok we're done with this convo, bye.

[shut vine]

Seeya.

I don't think it's strange to understand that statement he made about concrete conclusions was different to what he meant, it was rather confusing.

[dusky raft]

This is why I wouldnt jump straight into mob rule, this guy clearly had some mental issues, but it is up to the court of law to determine if it was racist, sexist, or just plain mental problems.

[shut vine]

I mean, yeah he does, and if a person has mental issues that cause them to murder people they need to be locked away.

I don't think blaming it on racism at this stage is very beneficial, and is rather divisive until we know more information.

[dusky raft]

This is the issue with the ongoing case with George Floyd, its been so overblown that anything that sells short of execution is not an option.

which is also why I now have a news archiver that runs every 30 minutes

thankfully ive been able to evade NYT subscriptions with it

[shut vine]

Ah which one?

[dusky raft]

which archiver?

its a combo software of freshrss+full-text RSS

freshrss displays while full-text extracts

provides a nice display

and able to make links footnotes

13 485 articles (49.58 MiB)

[shut vine]

Ah interesting, something to play with

[shy gulch]

Pewdiepie for president!!!

[dusky raft]

full-text rss is difficult to find, its technically "paid" software

but the devs left their bitbucket repo open

[vital pawn]

Putting here since I feel like it's more appropriate place than general.
My coworker's aunt caught Covid and recovered. She was vaccinated with Astra a month ago, but now she caught it again. She's in hospital under oygen, no contact with her.
I knows it's probably some super rare incident, but still hits hard given that it happened to someone "close".
Stay safe everyone, no matter if you had covid or vaccine or neither.

[near glen]

Well, there is a reason you need two doses and sadly vaccines aren't perfect

Its interesting tho how she already had covid, and a vaccine, and still got it again

Maybe different mutation, but still, that's some weak and forgetting immune system

Hope she'll beat it again

[vital pawn]

I believe she got 2 doses, but he didn't say explicitly.

Covid and vaccine and she got it again and is handling it worse than the first time

[smoky hedge]

The AZ vaccine is most effective when there's a decent time between the doses - but yeah, still not perfect :/

That's why we gotta get herd immunity up so that transmissions are lower (and people who can't get the vaccine, like me likely, aren't super unsafe)

Also if someone's immune system is under-functioning, vaccines are not as effective for them, as their immune system cannot create as many antibodies from the vaccine material

[vital pawn]

I still regret not testing myself half a year ago. Both of my roommates had confirmed Covid (same effects with a few hour delay between them two), were in agony and I somehow didn't feel anything.
I of course isolated with them, but didn't get tested and now I wonder if I managed to catch it or not.

[near glen]

You can do a anti gene test or smth

That cna tell you if you had it

If you really care

[foggy fern]

antigen?

6 months later I'm not sure if you'd even show antibodies and I don't know if they ever figured out a T-cell (B-cell?) test

[pure jetty]

yeah there is a lot of debate on if you would show antibodies after that long

and if it depends on a shit ton of factors

[vital pawn]

I did test myself like 11 days or so after they had first symptoms. With the anti-gen tests.

But regret not doing it like a month later, to confirm. I had spare tests to do that.

[pure jetty]

can you not link shitposts here

[near glen]

Let's not

[near glen]

Nice, a germany university found the issue with the AZ vaccine that lead to the stop and now know how to treat that particular complication without issues

Didn't find a english source for this yet

[pure jetty]

do you guys have any other vaccine approved there or was AZ all you guys had?

[near glen]

EU has AZ, biontech, moderna and j&j now i think?

[broken raven]

india got like 2 vaccines

[near glen]

Idk, i know that around here both AZ and biontech was used, but AZ we had more as biontech was slow

https://www.medizin.uni-greifswald.de/de/ueber-die-umg/aktuelles/astrazeneca-impfung/ primary source btw

[pure jetty]

ah i see

[foggy fern]

I thought there wasn't actually an issue with the AZ vaccine

Although I guess blood clots in the population getting the vaccine isn't directly comparable to blood clots in the general population so maybe when you filter the latter down to the same criteria as the vaccine the difference is statistically significant

[near glen]

there is an "issue", some ppls immune system react as if they have a cut or smth, so it triggers blood platelets so fight that, and those create the thrombosis

but now that dude understood where the thrombosis comes from so everybody can fight it

so it isnt an issue anymore

[foggy fern]

They aren't clear if they are doing a blood test before giving the vaccine, giving everyone who gets the vaccine a dose of this other drug, or hoping they can treat you with this drug after the clot happens

They also don't say what the other drug is

[near glen]

they treat after you have the symtoms I think

[foggy fern]

A blood clot in the brain is one hell of a symptom, I've had one of those before

I spent just over 24 hours puking every 10-20 minutes while they pumped me full of blood thinners and various anti-nausea drugs until they found one that made it stop

Then surgery was on the table if the blood thinners didn't show enough progress in a couple days (they did)

Huh, thinking about it now, the only two major medical issues I've had (that one and having my appendix burst) have resulted in me puking repeatedly to the point where it was torture and I would do anything to make it stop

[near glen]

I think my worst medical issue was 5 year old me making a backlip from the couch

into some bookshelf 😂

pretty deep cut with 10 stitches

[foggy fern]

I went car surfing 😄

Smacked my head on the bumper as I fell off, my head and neck were the only parts injured and it was all from that hit

[pure jetty]

oof

[near glen]

Well, head and neck are like the worst parts to injure, lol

[foggy fern]

I don't know how fast we were going that time but it was more than the 30 mph we'd done the previous times

The only two bones in my body I've broken are my head and my tailbone and my head I've done a few times 😛

[near glen]

Head i only got plenty concussions, most recently in the week before I finished school. In germany, last week of school you don't have lessons anymore but have a motto week, dress differently every day, drink all all, and at the end throw a show and alter a party for the school, second day motto was first day at school, so we were getting our old backpacks and stuff and crashing a sports lesson by driving in with scooters. We are pretty drunk, i crashed into another guy, fell flat backwards and was unconscious for a minute or so

[foggy fern]

Huh, apparently the treatment is blood plasma

[near glen]

Then got up again, my mates got me another beer and I was fine, only an hour later the headache stared and I was getting a scan then 😂

[foggy fern]

I can see why they wouldn't just give that to everyone, it's hard to get

So hard to get in the US they'll pay you for it

[near glen]

same here

[foggy fern]

They think it's type 2 heparin-induced thrombocytopenia

HIT is caused by the formation of abnormal antibodies that activate platelets.

I can't find where this person is getting their information though

They seem to have guessed what it was then something they saw from your source not only confirmed their guess but gave the treatment details

HIT is a pretty scary thing though, first you get clots then your blood is too thin so you get bleeding

[near glen]

I dont know anything about any of this, lol

I just know that that was the reason we stopped and that prof from that uni is the reason we continue now

[foggy fern]

Oh my, apparently the rate this occurs is 100 times worse in Norway compared to Germany

[near glen]

heh

[proud vale]

So what's your guys thought on censorship? 👀

[pure jetty]

welcome phoenix

you finally use discord

[proud vale]

I heard the paper communnity really likes it

[pure jetty]

censorship is censorship when its done by a government body

[proud vale]

seeing as they ban a cerain group of people to discuss certain topics

[weary lake]

phoenix do you know how close you are to a ban?

[proud vale]

Hey I moved to the correct channel...

[foggy fern]

I feel like this is about to start being a transphobic rant

[weary lake]

At least that's an improvement

(The moving, not the rant)

[plush crypt]

It's about him misusing IRC #paper all the time, Amaranth

[proud vale]

If you think I would do that then no...

I am way too left to go anywhere near hate speech lol

[foggy fern]

Oh that's the same person? Thought it was someone copying the name

[pure jetty]

lul

[proud vale]

The main issue about having a separate discussion channel about societal problems it that you can't reach the general populace anymore which usually gathers in the normal social chatting places...

[weak wolf]

Huh?

[proud vale]

And not topic-specific channels because they think they can't provide input or don't have any interest in it.

[weary lake]

That's exactly the point of the channel

[foggy fern]

COVID and Trump meant politics stuff was taking over general channels

[weak wolf]

Not everyone wants to see your political rants constantly

[proud vale]

Hence why I bring up such points in a general channel when they actually apply to the situation at hand.

[foggy fern]

I've seen several discords grow a channel like this in the last year

[proud vale]

I don't try to mindlessly peddle politics...

[plush crypt]

Then don't do that :)

[weak wolf]

I have this channel muted. I find your political discussions annoying. So I avoid them. I like this channel.

I find most annoying tbf

[opal moat]

Our discord is not a place to "reach the general populace".

[plush crypt]

This channel exists for the reason that people think politics is cool to discuss, and we don't wish for it to be in general; had we not wanted politics at all, this would not exist and it would be a banned topic in every channel.

[proud vale]

I just don't understand how I should've explained to them that mindlessly relying on an authority's word about a topic and not on the arguments brought forth by other community members in a different way isn't ideal. I guess I should've given up on them and not tried to convince them further? (I guess I agree that I tend to not be able to stop a discussion as long as I don't think my point has come across :S)

[pure jetty]

nobody brought up politics till you said this

[proud vale]

Ok, good point. I guess that was clearly political.

I guess I should've used a less political occasion to back that argument, I just tend to use the strongest one wherever possible and right wing/nazis tend to do the job pretty good.

[plush crypt]

Michael

[lusty ibex]

hello

[proud vale]

👀

[opal moat]

Yes, you should've. If you can't keep #politics and #general apart, then maybe it would be best to leave this area of the community for a while, and maybe just focus on #paper-dev instead. Because honestly, a lot of people are annoyed by you constantly bringing in politics to discussions in #general, and so are we.
Also, snapping back with stuff like "then put it in the irc rules" and "what do you think about censorship" does not really help improving your point, more of the opposite to be honest, and I think you know that

[proud vale]

Well only following certain channels isn't really good solution to staying on top of things seeing as channel topics are often not properly honoured (e.g. Minecraft/Paper issue related discussion in social channels like #general etc) so I rather either stay out of it all so I know I'm actively missing things or follow all of them (which isn't really possible with how this Discord is laid out anyways I guess seeing as there are tons of channels one would need to follow but that's just a general Discord issue, not really Paper)

I guess I should just disable unread indicators for #paper, could solve me getting engaged all the time 👀

[opal moat]

In the end it's up to you. I can only suggest things to avoid a ban in the future

[proud vale]

I would still love a bridge for this channel btw 😉

[pure jetty]

no

[plush crypt]

We wouldn't 😉

[proud vale]

Well I guess I really have to get around to setting up that IRC-Discord selfbot bridge at some point

[near glen]

its great, can confirm

[sand shale]

no.

[eager hawk]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/18/us/sex-trafficking-massage-parlors.html i found out about the review website written in the article, i am sickened to the core. ignorance is bliss

[foggy fern]

Oh yeah I think I know the site, can't remember the name though

Saw it mentioned on reddit once a few years ago

[loud flax]

i'd love to take about paper politics. Especially the ban I got a few months back that I felt was unfair. I'd be willing to go into the details on why, but tbh I don't speak up because I don't think anyone would listen to me, it's just a taboo subject and I'd risk getting banned over it

someone prove me wrong on that and I would love to talk to them

[pure jetty]

huh

i think you don't understand what this channel is for

and idk why you're admitting to ban evading

[loud flax]

more like i was let back, ended up sorting it out with someone

of course i know what this channel is for, i just don't think #general is the place to say that, and well, if this isn't either, i guess i'll just have to eat my feelings

[mystic ermine]

nobody here knows what you where banned for

[loud flax]

should I state it, or nah

probably shouldn't go off topic more than i feel i should

[pure jetty]

who cares

[loud flax]

people who are hurt care

[pure jetty]

nobody gives a rats ass why you were banned

nobody is hurt that you were banned

[loud flax]

i'm not a nobody sir

alright, that's enough for me, sorry to waste anyone's time

[valid steeple]

doorhandle technology has improved

[loud flax]

https://giphy.com/gifs/leaf-blower-jlg-justin-landis-group-I2uXFq5Z9hi2TCrWWt

[broken raven]

agreed.

[near glen]

https://www.bbc.com/news/education-56462390

Lmfao

"The City of London police's Intellectual Property Crime Unit says using the Sci-Hub website could "pose a threat" to students' personal data.

The police are concerned that users of the "Russia-based website" could have information taken and misused online."

Ah yes, making knowledge available without barriers is a threat to your personal data 😂

They blantly lie too

"If you're tricked into revealing your log-in credentials, whether it's through the use of fake emails or malware, we know that Sci-Hub will then use those details to compromise your university's computer network in order to steal research papers," he said.

we know

You don't know shit

[foggy fern]

Where does sci-hub get its content?

I could see people phishing universities to get their credentials to journals and such so they can upload them to sci-hub

Or people doing it on their own then claiming phishing when they get caught 😛

[near glen]

User upload it

This sounds like some big publisher is angry all universities are cancelling their contracts and called their friends at the police

[foggy fern]

Right, this sounds like a mix of truth, misunderstanding, and propaganda

[near glen]

Because that claim is old

And has been used exactly like this by publishers

At this point, sci hub is prolly as important as wikipedia for researchers

Can you sue the police for defamation? 😂

[pure jetty]

erm depends

burden of proof would be on you obv

however my understanding is that police are held to a lower standard so it would need to be very clear its a statement and not just their hypothesis

[near glen]

They saying they know sci hub uses phishing to get access to papers

Which they can't prove so they can't know it

[pure jetty]

oh that's UK, no?

not sure about their laws on defamation

i know they're much looser than US ones

[foggy fern]

Oh hey Trump didn't take over today either

What date will Qanon push next?

[pure jetty]

i feel likes it a recurring groundhog day

if the groundhog peeps out the next trump take out day goes for 6 more weeks

[foggy fern]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusive-idUSKBN1ZK1CT

[pure jetty]

weird stance after their public move against the FBI back in 2015(?)

[foggy fern]

The backlash from that is why they dropped the encryption

[vital pawn]

So our "national TV" is heavily paid by the government and always has been in favor our current political party.
They did manipulate cuts last year and sometimes said things as facts written in the law, which don't exist.
This year they also started manipulating audio and moving it around etc.
Wouldn't be surprised if next on the agenda would be using deepfakes to make the opposing party members say stupid shit.

[torn wadi]

They made a big deal out of one case. They decrypted a bunch of devices before and after that. But due to the FBI publicly saying: "Apple will just decrypt this for us", they refused.

[small root]

what government is this?

[vital pawn]

Polish. PiS (aka PISS) party.

"Law and Justice" party, which does neither.

[small root]

Sounds familiar

Our party of law and order had a group attack our capital, so

[vital pawn]

I hope I'll make 2021 my year when I leave this shithole for something not quite as bad.

[foggy fern]

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1374005427596312580

CBS News (@CBSNews)

Krispy Kreme will you give you a free doughnut every day this year — if you've been vaccinated https://t.co/ZLkGUa8QGH

Retweets

1213

Likes

3492

Twitter · Mar 22, 2021, 2:29 PM

[pure jetty]

lmfao

[near glen]

oh yes lets make them all fat 😄

[pure jetty]

https://i.imgur.com/FsrEeSD.png

gotta ship this to that BadLegalTakes twitter

[near glen]

can, there are many possible dum takes for that tweet

but to see discrimination is that, thats quite smth

next you know, its discrimination that you cant go onto the childrens bouncy castle

[foggy fern]

I can't go in the bouncy castle?

[foggy fern]

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1372961377304899586

Manu Raju (@mkraju)

14 House Republicans voted against a resolution condemning the military coup in Myanmar, per @kristin__wilson:
Lauren Boebert
Andy Biggs
Matt Gaetz
Tom Massie
Ken Buck
Mary Miller
Chip Roy
Jodey Hice
Alex Mooney
Scott Perry
Andy Harris
Ted Budd
Barry Moore
Marjorie Taylor Greene

Retweets

5038

Likes

10080

Twitter · Mar 19, 2021, 5:21 PM

[shy gulch]

Not getting free donut = discrimination

[pure jetty]

violates my 3rd amendment rights!

[foggy fern]

oof

[near glen]

I mean, tbh, my body is more important to me than my servers, lol

[eager hawk]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/23/business/astrazeneca-vaccine-questions.html?referringSource=articleShare

O_0

Oh it's just 79% -> 69-74% effectiveness

But that's still statistically significant to show that they cherrypicked the results

[pure jetty]

efficacy or effectiveness?

[shut vine]

Efficacy based on the wording, it's saying AZ claimed it had a 79% "effectiveness" in preventing COVID-19 infections.

Trials cannot ascertain effectiveness I don't believe, only efficacy.

[foggy fern]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/michael-sherwin-60-minutes-capitol-riot/2021/03/23/ebdbc992-8bf9-11eb-a730-1b4ed9656258_story.html

[foggy fern]

Woo new reddit drama https://www.reddit.com/user/Blank-Cheque/comments/mbmthf/why_is_this_subreddit_private_see_here_for_answers/

They say they're not removing posts about admins unless they're harassment but they apparently consider it harassment to post news articles that talk about someone they don't even want to admit is an employee (but do so indirectly by using that excuse for removing it)

[near glen]

But mah free speeeeechh

[foggy fern]

They're free to remove whatever they want but the lying about it is just weird

And they should expect some backlash from their free labor force for these things

I don't even know if any of the stories about this person are true, normally I'd go look on /r/ukpolitics or similar to see what's going on

The posts that triggered all of this are from sources that seem... biased

Like, the original post about it seemed to be from a TERF and the one that made it to hacker news I've never heard of but is a gaming site

And the most damning accusations it makes don't seem to be backed up with sources

The confirmed story seems to be that she lived in a house with her father while he had a 10 year old in the attic who he raped and tortured (with a car battery) then she hired him for her campaign while he was out on bail. Then later her fiancee had some twitter posts about fantasizing about having sex with children and she says their account was hacked.

The unconfirmed bits are that she was found to have pictures on her phone of her and the 10 year old and that her fiancee said the twitter posts were just a fantasy (not that they didn't post them)

I can't seem to find any other news stories about those parts

This doesn't seem like someone you'd want to hire for a PR role, in any case

Too much baggage, real or not

[restive seal]

Wait wait wait, hired for a PR role of all things?

[foggy fern]

It's not actually clear what she was hired for apparently

I thought I saw a mention it was for an LGBT+ outreach thing but I can't find any confirmation

They claim the original ban of the /r/ukpolitics mod was a bad configuration of automod but her name was only in the article itself, not in the title

I didn't know automod was loading articles to scan for things

[restive seal]

I saw a claim that the mod then reposted the contents

askreddit's going well

[foggy fern]

Possibly, I guess that is pretty common for news posts

[restive seal]

aaaaaaaaand fired

https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/mcisdf/an_update_on_the_recent_issues_surrounding_a/

[pure jetty]

lmfao spez even made the post

[small root]

Oh why is this politixa

Politics

I don’t even know what happenes

[pure jetty]

originated on r/ukpolitics

[small root]

Ah

Oh I see

So they had an automated filter that banned anyone who posted her name, or a link with it?

[drifting arch]

yes

[small root]

Hmm

[drifting arch]

p sure they just had a system like that in general and they added her name as a character sequence that triggered it

much like automoderator

(if not automoderator)

[foggy fern]

It was AutoModerator, that's a thing built in to reddit now instead of an actual bot

[drifting arch]

yeah

[vital pawn]

So my country is going into another lock down tomorrow.
Closing big area building and furniture stores despite usually people being located there sparsely and usually being "younger" people, while leaving churches etc which is mostly older people close together.
They also close down hairdressers and similar.
Their whole talk was "let's not make it political, but opposition...".
Also, again they lock everything up, but only till the day before some "important" country event/anniversary. As we all know, on 11th anniversary of Smoleńsk airplane crash (where a lot of political people died, including current leaders brother), no coronavirus will be present. Normally I wouldn't try to find malicious intent like that, if not the fact that it's not the first time it happens.
Prime Minister also bashed on the private hospitals and said how well country health care works, while all the biggest private providers were helping since the first wave.

God, I hate those laying morons. Hopefully I won't have to listen to them anymore soon.

[mystic ermine]

I say often

I don't condone violence

Buy, guy fawkes? I mean, was he wrong?

[vital pawn]

I don't condone violence or death sentences (in 99% of the cases), but let's say there's a few people i wouldn't cry after.

[foggy fern]

Guy Fawkes wanted a Catholic dictatorship....

[mystic ermine]

Yea, but he also tried to kaboom

[near glen]

Interesting, my company refuses to provide insurance for coal power plants

Didn't knew we were actually serious with our new sustainability focus

We also don't invest into coal or oil and stuff

Also, 1000+ ppl in one teams room, thats quite something

[vital pawn]

When our company does company-wide meetings, they stream it on YT and you ask questions through sli.do after they pass moderation.

I imagine using teams could get hectic with so many ppl.

[near glen]

It's a special teams feature

Only a select group are proper participants, the rest just gets a q&a screen where you can ask questions and upvote stuff

Fun fact: we don't even use teams yet

Just the teams events thingy

Because skype for business has a max of 250 per room and it was a mess

[brisk cradle]

Good morning! SB 202 got signed into law yesterday to make Jim Crow great again.

And of course it panders to the diet fascists who seem to make up the majority of the GOP base.

[near glen]

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-donald-trump-media-lawsuits-elections-912eea8e168f95d51dec02da78ac2760

That's gonna be interesting

[pure jetty]

they won't make that amount

obviously for spectacle

but they will almost certainly win

that being said it wouldn't be Fox's lawyers first rodeo with defamation