politics

[eager hawk]

i haven't heard of it, and i would be interested in learning where you've gain the knowledge from. could be true, idk, I'm just interested (not trying to attack you or smt)

[foggy fern]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukoyōshi

Not quite what I thought, it's just to keep the name alive if you only have girls

[eager hawk]

thanks! learned that term today, it does make sense and does apply in family business means, as there is a strong tradition to this day to maintain family businesses into generations. it's not uncommon for there to be family businesses upheld for hundreds of years by multiple generations; Hoshi Ryokan (a hotel company) is a business that is 46 generations old, crazy stuff. With that being said, except for these cases, the consensus in marriages has often been to choose the male surname, and leaves out the choice of having a hyphenated name or changing your former surname to a middle name, etc. (middle names don't exist in japan).

but yeah, not "common" as you said :)

[shut vine]

I see, so should the government decide who takes who's name?

[mystic ermine]

no

[shut vine]

I would have thought people having an equal choice is equality.

Seems you're conflating equality with equity, yuukster.

[mystic ermine]

i think saying that it's a gender equality issue is stretching

It's a "government wants to control people for no real reason other than the fact that they can" issue

[shut vine]

Yeah I agree, don't see there being a reason to limit how people change their names that's valid.

I don't specifically think adjusting this makes the genders any more/less equal however.

Also Japan is fairly conservative in general, pretty sure their government is titled heavily towards conservative parties (something like 320-145).

The National Diet is actually elected similar to RCV too.

You vote for your preferred candidate, then you vote for your preferred party.

[eager hawk]

true, i did make the error on conflating the terms and relating them to the gender equality issues Japan is severely behind on could be considered a stretch. The issue however still stands, and the staunchiness of politicians preventing this ruling from one of the more common sense rules being removed shows there's little hope for progress with the current elected members.

between 2009 and 2012 it was under liberal party rule, but they did a terrible job at managing the economy so it's been dominated by conservatives since. ironically the conservative party is called the LIberal Democratic Party in Japan

[shut vine]

What is ironic about that?

[eager hawk]

ironic in the definition of paradoxical

their party name and their views don't match up

[mystic ermine]

it's all relative

[shut vine]

You mean the liberal part?

I mean most people who consider themselves liberal are for heavier government control.

Anecdotally from my experience anyway

[eager hawk]

So liberal is not necessarily the opposite to conservative, in your viewpoint?

[shut vine]

No

Classic liberalism (which is generally what most countries bar a few consider liberalism) is for small government influence on daily life, and also for small government in general. This is because it advocates freedom to the maximum extent possible without your freedom directly harming others.

What you'd consider libertarian

[eager hawk]

wait we've been talking about liberalism right, why did you ask about libertarian?

[shut vine]

The libertarian ideals came about from liberal in the 60's or 70's when people who considered themselves liberal changed their views and still considered themselves liberal

Because libertarian is classic liberalism

Or very similar rather

[eager hawk]

i see, interesting history lesson there, ty. but we were talking about modern liberalism right? or is there not such a thing? although i probably converse a lot on politics i haven't really taken political history classes, i probably should while in college lol

current-day*

[shut vine]

See that is the issue, definitions are different depending on who you ask 😛

I believe in Japan liberalism is closer to classic than modern

I don't personally like that the ideals of liberalism changed so radically and it didn't get a new name

Mainly because of confusion

I prefer more solid definitions that don't change a whole lot

[mystic ermine]

issue with political discussion is that parties change past their namesakes, and then words change meaning, as well as everything being on a scale which everybody wants to just simplify into left/right, maybe with a "far" demonination on that

[shut vine]

Yeah that's another issue too

It's actually a big pitfall of Democracy.

People and tribalism

[eager hawk]

i see. well that was great to learn. either way, the "Liberal Democratic Party" is a right-wing, nationalist, revisionist party, and it's the current leading party in japan -_-

[eager hawk]

would be another good topic to talk on :)

[shut vine]

I mean, they represent over 50% of the vote, and with Komeito they're like 70%

As I said, Japan has widespread conservative views

Also I don't think I'd link conservationism to any particular ideologies. Because I think tradition in each country is different.

[eager hawk]

Revisionist = calling the Nanjing massacre the "Nanjing incident" and saying enslaved Korean women "volunteered" to be prostitutes. 😠

[shut vine]

I don't think calling it a massacre is really accurate either.

That being said, China doesn't have much of a better history.

[eager hawk]

from what we've talked, is it fair to say that the terms describing the level of governmental overnight has been conflated to equate the positions of the left and right? from our conversation it seems like it

[shut vine]

Both China and Japan have reprehensible history.

[eager hawk]

if 40,000-300,000 killed isn't a massacre then what is

[mystic ermine]

generally as we're talking about one specific country in regards to less/more, right/left

[shut vine]

Many nations are like that though

[mystic ermine]

I think that we gotta move on from history, however

every nation has its own atrocities in its history books

some are commiting them right now

[shut vine]

I'd consider Nanjing a rape tbh based on what they did to the survivors.

I agree at moving on from history, I don't agree with people rewriting it to suit their needs though.

Regardless of their reason.

[eager hawk]

i disagree in "moving on from history" for as long as generational trauma exists.

[shut vine]

Yea, China is one of those ironically.

[mystic ermine]

What is the alternative?

I mean, shit happened

[shut vine]

Generational trauma will always exist, if the person who inflicted that is dead, it's over.

[eager hawk]

many reparations haven't been addressed

[mystic ermine]

...

[shut vine]

You can't hold a person accountable once they're dead or their descendants accountable for their ancestors actions.

[mystic ermine]

Soooo

who writes the cheque and who gets a cheque?

who do we determine that?

[shut vine]

When do we stop? 1 generation? 2? 10? 20?

[eager hawk]

it's not over when there's so many molds made in society that are a direct result of histories of segregation, genocide, etc that affect the current generation.

[shut vine]

Yeah that's separate though, a today issue stands on its own to solve.

[mystic ermine]

There are much more pressing issues then tryna pull resources from a bunch of people who had nothing to do with past horrors towards people where their family was impacted

Nobody has a solution for any of this

not to mention, many times that people have actually tried to talk about this stuff, they've been shot down or labled stuff like a race traiter

[eager hawk]

let's think of this issue with a national topic, Downwinders from nuclear testing done during the Cold War. Do you agree on compensation for them, who have faced adverse health effects due to the wrongdoings caused by certain people in government? Or if we put your argument into this perspective, since the people who led these governmental tests are now dead, does that you also think there's no need to compensate these people?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downwinders#Health_effects_of_nuclear_testing

[mystic ermine]

for the people impacted by it, yes

but, once again, how do you determine where the resources from from and who gets those resources?

how do you determine who is impacted by the past?

Also, what does reparations look like?

[shut vine]

Well the situations are different. One is incredibly subjective and one is fairly objective. The effects on the Downwinders can be scientifically measured.

[eager hawk]

good questions, you can do your civic duty of looking them up online, and i can also do the same since i'd also like to teach myself on it :)

[mystic ermine]

It's an actual question

on a case-by-case thing

Like, here's the thing

[shut vine]

The question for me is if those who affected the Downwinders can be proven to have known they would have caused this for them.

[mystic ermine]

many people came to the US years after those things happened

do those people pay? do those people get paid?

What about families who lived in areas of the US where this was never an issue, do they pay, do they get paid?

[shut vine]

Which would represent negligence.

I don't think family who lived outside the affected areas of those affected should receive compensation under any circumstance.

[eager hawk]

sorry was mid-typing then accidentally pressed enter. those are good moral/ethical/philosophical questions, and they do need to be addressed and addressing them is really complex. as i said, we should look up what solutions have been done in the past and see if these can be applied to current un-compensated issues.

[shut vine]

Or anyone who can't be clearly measured to have been affected.

[mystic ermine]

In the time that we figure out the metrics for who should be compensated and who should pay, etc, we could of done much more to progress these issues

[eager hawk]

i do agree with you that from an objective, idealistic perspective, that should be the case. obviously unfortunately there's a lot to the process as Cat says

[mystic ermine]

I think it's just pointlessly divisive means to address a problem with a temporary stop-gap which won't really fix any of the issues in society

[shut vine]

There is, I agree.

But my idea doesn't conflict with his.

If you can objectively measure harm and who was to blame, it makes sense.

[mystic ermine]

by the time you picked up the winners and the losers, we'll have lost years of genology bs, those who could actually stand to have resources thrown at them for nothing that would actually provide them the means to do better could have things put in place to help them move forward

[shut vine]

It's not what I'd consider absolute objectivity, but is as close to as you can get with this kind of thing.

[mystic ermine]

And, I mean, it's some of the stupid shit that would help which people have a problem with

e.g. school vouchers

[eager hawk]

what's a good solution then? or do you just think there's nothing else we can do besides just not do anything to these people directly and indirectly impacted by the actions of the past, hence giving them no justice?

[mystic ermine]

investing cash and opertunities into low income areas of ALL of society

[faint radish]

DOGECOIN is the solution

To everything

[eager hawk]

that is a valid point, i was about to bring up the fact that reparations don't equate to necessarily being direct cash compensation. that is a form of reparation.

[mystic ermine]

it's a question which nobody has yet to answer as far as I know

I mean, I come from a council estate family

[shut vine]

I would say investing money into making it easier for those in low income areas being able to have more financial mobility, but maybe that's what you mean.

[mystic ermine]

my parents where never married and the relationship turned sour over the years, my so called mother finally kicked my father out like 8 years ago or something stupid, but, they filed for benefits and shit seperattly because they earned more that way

my mother also never had a job because the government subisidies she got made much more sense to her to stick out child raising vs actually investing into a career and such

There are gonna be people like my mother in society who'd sooner do jack shit all day, and that pisses me off

[eager hawk]

I disagree there's "nobody" that knows, there's a lot of academic papers and I think we should take a look at academic review papers to see what successful examples of reparations have been like

[shut vine]

My mother is similar, sadly.

[mystic ermine]

but, I rarely had new clothes, my shoes I'd often wear until the sole peeled off and shit like that

[shut vine]

Academic paper != knowing the answer

Also I don't think a single instance of reparations can easily be translated to all.

[eager hawk]

i agree there's so many people who are like this, and i do think it is a flaw in many of the democratic-socialist ideals that if we implement a good reform that people will follow through and not exploit/take advantage of these offering. obviously if you work in retail/healthcare you learn to see that many people are shitty

[mystic ermine]

I was forced into the family business, was hoping to work for my grandfather but got stuck with my uncle and basically abused to fuck into staying for the family, the company failing due to their greed/laziness allowed me to somehow shove myself into college and progress myself to uni in which I cut off all contact with my family

[shut vine]

Realistically at the end of the day successful reparations rely on the affected party being willing to accept attempted reparations as successful too.

Which dependent on the perceived wrong, may never be possible.

[mystic ermine]

waiting for covid to fuck off so that the job market re-opens here, but, I can't wait to get a real job and be far above my family; Not spoken to my family in years, my 2nd oldest bro was working for some company but basically flunked all his grades coz he couldn't be assed, same for my sister, couldn't be assed going to the college 3 minute walk down the road, worked for subway, got preggers and quit during her maternity leave

[shut vine]

I say perceived not to be dismissive of wrongdoing, but to acknowledge wrong is inherently subjective. Even though I personally would consider several actions universally wrong regardless of your alignment or culture.

[mystic ermine]

My entire life I've basically been left to shit creek and fucked over by my entire faimly, and i'm glad that I found the opertunity to get out of that, but, I think that's part of the joy

best you can do is present opertunities to people to help lift them up

take a look at all the people who won the lottery, blew their load in a year or two and are now on the streets or back on the dole

If we intend to help those who where fucked over by history, opertunities are the best we can offer, as it allows those willing to move to progress forward, vs other programs which try to force people up but leave those they often intend to help even worse off

[shut vine]

I agree. It's mostly up to the individual if they want to change their life ultimately.

[eager hawk]

I'm glad you're being comfortable with sharing your story, I am truly sorry to hear the family background you came from and I congratulate your resilience to find yourself a better life and work, I wish you the best on that. Your story does apply to this topic of conversation at hand, using cash compensation as a solution to reparations most often is not a great solution. Greed for money brings out the worst in people

[shut vine]

That being said I do believe people maimed or irreparably physically and measurably harmed by the negligence or willful disregard of government or a company should be compensated by those who caused it.

[mystic ermine]

Yes

[shut vine]

I think when it comes to individual vs individual it's infinitely more complicated.

[mystic ermine]

if some moron sticks their hand in the "don't put your hand here" hole and expects compenstation, they can fuck off*

if some company fucks up and refuses to maintain/train people properly and their hand ends up into that hole, the company is responsible for that

[eager hawk]

i have a feeling a lot of academic papers on reparations agree with this perspective 😊

[mystic ermine]

most of the compaints I see for the black communities tend to fall into the lines of poor white communities over here

[shut vine]

Well he's for everyone having equal opportunity, and making those opportunities for self success as easy as possible.

I think anyway

[mystic ermine]

lack of opertunities which leads people down the wrong path and verylittle in place which tries to reach out to people in the correct place to raise them up

Those system which often try to reach out to people are often underfunded or basically nobody knows about them, or they're far too late down the chain to actually help people in time

[shut vine]

There's actually a very strong statistical correlation with poverty in developed nations and single parent households.

[mystic ermine]

it's a nuanced topic, really

I mean, single parents are generally fucked when it comes to working, e.g. very few companies want to or have the capacity to deal with somebody who has a child to look after

[shut vine]

It definitely is.

My point wasn't that "single parenthood is the cause of poverty", just that it's many times more likely that your family will fall below the poverty line.

[mystic ermine]

not to mention, the schemes in place to help parents are generally caveated at best, e.g. there are voucher schemes for affordable childcare, but, you gotta be able to find somebody who is available and capable of actually accepting those vouchers

[shut vine]

It's incredibly hard to full time parent and full time job.

[mystic ermine]

see, that's one of the modern perils of society where out of wedlock child-birth is basically rocketing up

or, more, "single", should I say

[shut vine]

Yeah erosion of marriage and the family unit has had a negative effect on society.

[dusky raft]

The whole war on drugs, tough on crime, and welfare expansions destroyed the nuclear family image for many.

[shut vine]

@eager hawk FYI just reading about LDP, they were actually founded merging the Liberal Party and Japan Democratic Party in the 40's. Which means their roots are most likely classical liberalism.

[eager hawk]

ahh i see, thanks for sharing with me your research :)

[shut vine]

Yeah those policies were pretty damaging. Realistically they were heavily bipartisan too.

[dusky raft]

If these programs did actually work, we would already be seeing improvements in cities

hell, red california was in a better state than the sorry excuse it is today.

[eager hawk]

which programs are you referring to?

[dusky raft]

"war on drugs, tough on crime, and welfare expansions "

[eager hawk]

war on drugs and tough on crime are heavily condemned by leftists, i'm assuming you're coming from a conservative perspective?

[shut vine]

I'm specifically against the war on drugs and welfare expansions.

[dusky raft]

yes, and im not a leftist, nor a true conservative

[mystic ermine]

condemmed now, sure

[shut vine]

I think being tough on crime is a good thing mostly when it comes to protecting society.

[mystic ermine]

they weren't at the time

[dusky raft]

it was a racist policy overall

considering joe biden spearheaded some of those bills in the 90s

[mystic ermine]

I'm heavily against the war on drugs and think that the best. practice in general would be to just legalise it and make it easier to access support for those issues

[eager hawk]

liberals != leftists, clarifying just in case misunderstanding of terminology

[shut vine]

The crack cocaine bill for example was Uncle Joe.

[mystic ermine]

I mean, the bills where supported fairly well across the board last I knew

[shut vine]

That being said it was heavily influenced by black mayors and representatives, because they didn't want criminal elements in their cities, and they linked crack to crime.

[mystic ermine]

a good bunch afaik of those which signed some of those into place have come out and said that they regret signing it

But, those bills caused more harm than good

[shut vine]

Of course, but we're not rewriting history.

[mystic ermine]

I mean, you have people in for life for a bit of grass

[shut vine]

There was bipartisan support for most of it.

[mystic ermine]

The biggest issue people have is tryna solve issues using the law rather than reach out

[shut vine]

Affirmative action is also very damaging.

[eager hawk]

so an independent/centrist? who is a politician that seems to most align with your ideals would probably be a good question. since you are anti-biden-from-the-past (which i also am) i was just wondering

[mystic ermine]

He still supports the bill

[shut vine]

My feeling about Zyphys is he tends to judge things based on merit.

[mystic ermine]

he was asked if he'd change his mind or something on that bill or if he felt bad about it and he stood by it

[shut vine]

So probably similar to me in as much as not wanting to specifically align with anything specific.

[eager hawk]

he does? damn that's a TIL i thought he was one of those who said they regret signing it -_-

[dusky raft]

im right leaning, more leaning towards fair regulated capitalism than what we have today.

[mystic ermine]

did you know that biden and obama are against gay marriage?

[eager hawk]

i know they've been in the past, i would heavily assume they're in support of it rn

[shut vine]

Political theater.

[mystic ermine]

he opposed t in 2008

[shut vine]

Donald Trump is the first one who supported it before entering office.

Isn't that ironic?

[eager hawk]

^ and catering to public interests and aligning with what sounds normal/acceptable in that age. there's not many who continuously preach their ideals like bernie sanders, who's had the same perspective for decades on economic policy

[eager hawk]

lmao it is

[mystic ermine]

personally, I don't think that it's the governments place to say if gay marriage should be allowed or not

[shut vine]

He actually put his possibly controversial opinion out there before office.

[dusky raft]

the only benefit government has with marriage of any form is for your tax filing.

[mystic ermine]

Personally, I think marriage should be split out from the law, and then just leave it to a religious thing of why the shit does the government need to give a shit about it

See, I line up very weird, I'm conservative in some respects, progressive in others, minimal government, "who gives a shit so long as you're not harming me or my friends"

[shut vine]

I don't like Trump as a person, he also gave the media a lot to work with, but think they had particular hate for him after he called them early on on their bullshit.

[mystic ermine]

I mean, the media has been caught out pretty well for clipping stuff on both sides

[shut vine]

Yeah I agree.

[mystic ermine]

the horror is that a good % of the public really do not care and are happy to be lied to

[shut vine]

He called them on that particularly. Which is why I think they went at him so hard.

Just my opinion.

[eager hawk]

i think a lot of people who fairly (as in not biased) educate themselves on all the issues have a lot of these arguments that don't all fit to one side, and that's a good thing

[mystic ermine]

I really want some sorta like independent in the middle give no shits media company to startup on the centerline and basically slowly win over the public

[dusky raft]

hell, I think social media is more than happy to make a division with intent. If social media wanted to fix divisions, it shouldnt have pushed certain content to users.

[eager hawk]

AP news and TheHill are great centerline news coverage media sources

[shut vine]

To be honest, regardless of your view, I support you having it especially if you support me having mine.

[mystic ermine]

I mean, it's annoying as between the two main parties here, I got the tories or labour; labour with their pot stirring hypocrisy and the conservive party not really being conserative but a bunch of morons stuffing money into their mates pockets

[eager hawk]

yeah thanks facebook/twitter for contributing to dividing up viewpoints more over these years

[shut vine]

I prefer people who don't align themselves with a particular ideology, too. 😛

[mystic ermine]

I love how they shut down parler, yet, apparently twitter/facebook was the main place used for actual organisation of stuff

[dusky raft]

both have been known to experiment on their users, or allowed actors to exploit their research system.

[eager hawk]

is there also the "illusion of choice" like how we have here in the US, where in the end they all cater to the rich

[mystic ermine]

(then there's also the cases where twitter is known to have been hosting CP and gone out of their way to cover it all up...)

[eager hawk]

once again a class issue/rich people causing trouble -- catering to the shareholders of these companies -_-

[mystic ermine]

I mean, you got two parties, you got the tories who basically bid stuff out, which is good, fuck the government running stuff, but, it often goes cheapest bidder who often is a mate of the tories who sorta like, take the cash, deliver very little

[shut vine]

Yeah that also made me laugh.

Especially when Twitter is hosted on the same service and same service agreement.

[mystic ermine]

and then you have the labour party who promise to be good, but are the party of basically years of antisemetic investigations and "everything is racist"

[eager hawk]

wdym by bid stuff out? is it a term used in british politics

[mystic ermine]

We had a labour top brass who was pulled over in a tinted to all shit car a few months ago

[dusky raft]

I'm not against rich people because of their wealth, but because they use government to get what they want.

[shut vine]

I also find it ironic that it was claimed the capitol riots were planned days before, and that Trump's speech on the day incited them.

[mystic ermine]

The piggy typing the plate in mistyped and thought that the car was out of the city during a lockdown, so they ofc went over to go figure out why there where breaking lockdown

[eager hawk]

would go back to the conversation on the 2010 supreme court ruling Citizens UNited vs FEC which essentially gave rich people power to buy elections --_

[mystic ermine]

labour top brass in the back of the car started screaming about how it was a racist stop and search and how the police force is literally the worse and should be defunded

video came out and the car was tinted to all shit

"bid stuff out" - our government generally contracts stuff out to private firms

competing companies basically bid against one another and the cheapest wins™

[eager hawk]

which government officials/reps said which and which said the other? or are you referring to opinion papers that say one way or the other

[shut vine]

I personally feel blaming everything that happens to you that's negative on racism is also a racist idea.

[mystic ermine]

there is generall some sorta "maybe not the cheapest", but, yea...

[shut vine]

Without more evidence, of course.

[eager hawk]

ohhh i see, thanks for clarifying :)

[mystic ermine]

apparently the plans to attack the capital have been going on for weeks

[shut vine]

So the FBI claimed the riots were planned in advance, and the case in the Senate was alleging that his speech incited the crowd to commit the act.

Both cannot be true.

They specifically cited his speech on the day.

[mystic ermine]

I mean, the timeline showed that the supposed comment he made which incited it, there wasn't even time for his supporters to cover that distance in the time that the attacks actually started

[shut vine]

I would be inclined to trust the FBI more in this instance.

[mystic ermine]

There's also been a few accounts of trump having asked for 10k guards and the house basically saying "nope" because optics

[shut vine]

Well generally over politicians in general.

[eager hawk]

from my perspective it seems that argument, which was used in academia to categorize/simplify societal issues into groups to more easily analyze them, spilled out to the general public for them to use that argument to justify -- not causate or correlate, but justify, whatever is going on in life. though i am well aware those who think this way are in the significant minority and are just more vocally expressed in today's politics with the amplifying of voices by the media

[dusky raft]

I would have to read up on that ruling, but this has been an issue for a long time, its not new

hell, trusts in the 1890s bought congress out and law stated in that ruling didnt exist at the time

[shut vine]

Yeah I wasn't trying to claim a specific number of people had the view, I just have seen instances of people who do what I describe.

[mystic ermine]

the thing is that those who scream racist the loudest are generally those who profit the most from a racist society

flashback to that one time I had some feminist in college scream at me because I called my bestie a bitch

[eager hawk]

it's been exacerbated due to the ruling. you can see for yourself the causation from objective measurements how much inequality spread after these rulings and see how much political contributions increased due to this

[shut vine]

I try not to use innuendo, be vague, or otherwise have hidden messages in what I say.

Generally if I've not said it, then you can assume I didn't mean to imply it.

[dusky raft]

Yeah, and to be honest, id love to see a service limit rather than a term limit

would prevent seat hopping from house to senate to president to other positions

or at least if implemented correctly

[eager hawk]

that's not screaming racist, that just sounds like someone who gets triggered easily

[mystic ermine]

No, but it's the same general concept of being offended for others or blowing something trivial and meaningless out of proportion

[eager hawk]

service limits won't fix the problem, there'll just be more people who hold the same ideals as their predecessors and take that office with no change

[mystic ermine]

having some churn in government would be nice

[dusky raft]

it also means companies cant bribe the same asshat

[mystic ermine]

why is it that people who in their decades of existance in politics who've practically done nothing to help the little guy get to stick around and have their name cast into the lights

there are many small businesses out there in countries which do more to help the misfortunate on a daily basis than those in government have done in years

[eager hawk]

yeah virtue signal-ers

[shut vine]

I'm kind of for removing the term limit in general. Though I do understand why it's there.

[mystic ermine]

take a look at LA

they've been tryna solve the homeless problem for fucking years on end

each year it gets worse

they even screamed to the world "homeless people, come here, we'll look after you"

[shut vine]

And it's just going to get worse as all these big businesses and jobs leave

[mystic ermine]

and yet they seemingly shit on practically every private attempt to help homelessness

[dusky raft]

Besides military positions, I think a service limit would do nice, it would assist with bringing in new ideals while forcing the already rich politician into retirement.

[mystic ermine]

some guy was making little wood houses for people and basically got shot down and had his tiny homes confiscated

[shut vine]

What kind of limit? 10 years, 20?

[dusky raft]

I think it would bring people who care about the country rather than rot in a fucking chair for 30-40 years

[mystic ermine]

meanwhile state government has thrown tons of cash, even paying 2-3 times above market place value for a warehouse to house the homeless in which last I knew was still empty

[dusky raft]

I think 20 is fair

30 if went into military

[eager hawk]

https://www.thoughtco.com/debate-over-term-limits-for-congress-3367505

we have term limits, they're called elections

[shut vine]

Like Nanci "Know What the People Need 20K Ice Cream Freezer" Pelosi?

[mystic ermine]

I'd much rather the government throw the money it spends tryna resolve those things towards private companies tryna help with these issues, as these private companies are often completely underfunded but have done more on their own dollars in a fraction of the time of some over-budgeted to all shit system

[eager hawk]

leave the good ones in kick the bad ones out

[mystic ermine]

pelosi doesn't even live in her own district

[dusky raft]

the problem is the low voter information

[shut vine]

She's heavily out of touch, more than any politician I've ever seen.

[mystic ermine]

I mean, she represents people and a community she doesn't wanna live with/by, why?

and then you got the covid reparations bill

[eager hawk]

people need to see that pelosi shuts down debate offers -- can that not be a rule, that for every election there has to be at least 1 debate of some sort?

[mystic ermine]

You know what we REALLY need to help deal with covid?

a subway in silicone valley and a bridge from new york to canaderp

apparently only like 9% of the bill goes towards actually helping the US public

[shut vine]

Yeah, I saw a breakdown of it the other day.

[eager hawk]

^ and that is something leftists often bring up, a lot of the stimulus bill goes towards giving money to businesses instead of direct to the people, or funding services that directly help people

[dusky raft]

a lot of it went towards big business

[mystic ermine]

Yea, but the politicians which people elect because they supposidly care about us really don't give a shit

[dusky raft]

im fine with SMB's getting some relief

[mystic ermine]

and people are stupid enough to keep electing the same people because "they're on my party"

[eager hawk]

subway like the sandwich or the train? cause we got the former and don't have the latter lol

[mystic ermine]

the latter

[shut vine]

A lot of it goes to education due to social distancing, even though the CDC says schools can go back due to the low risk associated with children getting and spreading the virus.

[eager hawk]

THIS

[shut vine]

They have not even spent the money they got back in March, or October, and they're getting another 180 billion or so.

[mystic ermine]

a lot of the money from the last bill for education hasn't been spent

[eager hawk]

for some reason building train infrastructure is stupid expensive, like we've been trying to get a rail system connected to the silicon valley and it's taking ages for it to happen

[mystic ermine]

apparently it'll be 2023 before the extra money is allocated to them will be spent

[shut vine]

They have not spent the a lot from the original bill, let alone the last one.

[mystic ermine]

I mean, I question, why the shit is this on a covid bill

[shut vine]

I actually know what video you watched.

[eager hawk]

CDC also said there's little risk the children spread the virus to their parents/grandparents?

[mystic ermine]

I read some article before I saw some video, but, was kinda fun

[shut vine]

I'll DM it and see if I'm correct

[dusky raft]

I most likely wont see this stimulus much like the 2nd, im still waiting for my 2019 returns...

[shut vine]

Oh okay

[shut vine]

yes

[dusky raft]

I sent that back last july and never heard from the IRS nor can get anything from them...

[shut vine]

CDC's recommendations (which Joe doesn't seem to follow much) include students going back to school.

[eager hawk]

@ shahidforchange on instagram tried to run in opposition of pelosi, but he didn't get a good chance due to pelosi's rejections at debates cause she knows she'll lose to them lol

[shut vine]

He doesn't even follow his own EO's.

[mystic ermine]

I mean, even if joe wanted to, many of the unions are against it

[eager hawk]

interesting, well there's definitely a lot of public sentiment against it and i think biden is trying to be aware of that i guess

[mystic ermine]

We'll find out when he works out what room he's in first

[eager hawk]

this too because who wants to risk dying for something that can (although to the demerit for the kids) wait out for a bit more

[shut vine]

I mean, he ran on a platform of Science first.

[eager hawk]

he has a speech stutter, and being in that government position is overwhelming i bet i'd forget simple things at times too. don't rely too much on clips by the media as you said. though sorry if that was just a joke

[mystic ermine]

I mean, these are the people who are against going back to schools because of the virus which they are statitically unlikely to spread, but, will take their own children to private schools which are still open or wasn't there the case where the union teachers where in like mexico or something?

[shut vine]

Cat is hinting at the fact his memory is utterly shot based on what you can see publicly.

[mystic ermine]

I mean, partially joke, partially there's a good number of videos where he's talking and then just seemingly mentally blanks out

[eager hawk]

and i think there's a lot of scientific argments against having kids in schools in the field of science too. though it's an "i think" based on my common sense so i may be wrong if the CDC really said that

[mystic ermine]

CDC has said it's safe to go back

[shut vine]

He was never as sharp after the aneurysms in my opinion and it's suddenly got worse in about 2010

I actually feel pretty bad for him if he was talked into running for office.

[eager hawk]

damn interesting, though remember when the CDC said N-95 masks aren't any better at keeping you safe from the virus?

[shut vine]

Yeah, that's the trouble with science, it evolves, and currently seems to be evolving with political actions somehow.

[eager hawk]

at least trump is out of office because of him, and no other democratic politician had as much black support, we could've lost if it was any other candidate due to this

[eager hawk]

and i'm worried those CDC school guidelines are evolving with political actions as it had in the past

[shut vine]

Well I feel the pick this time was just as bad as last time.

The voters seem to agree with me.

That being said, the last 20+ years the votes have been pretty polarized

[eager hawk]

having better people in the cabinet is underestimated for how much impact that has.

[mystic ermine]

mid terms are gonna be interesting to say the least

[shut vine]

Oh I agree. I'm just not sure the second coming of Obama was what we needed.

Time will tell though.

[mystic ermine]

and, I mean, am not really sure who else the DNC really had bar tryna pull hillary out for another swing

[eager hawk]

i gtg, great conversation we've had today, talk to yall later :)

[shut vine]

I agree.

Thanks for being civil.

[mystic ermine]

o/

[eager hawk]

i try my best :)

you too dude

[shut vine]

Yeah same, sometimes it's hard though. 😛

[mystic ermine]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuQK6t2Esng

[brisk cradle]

Succeessful UBI experiment in Stockton, California. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/mar/03/california-universal-basic-income-study

Highlights: they didn't stop working or start using drugs. Instead they paid off debt, paid bills, and used it to help get them new jobs.

[pure jetty]

yeah, still extremely unlikely to ever be passed federally

and I mean 125 is a pretty small sample size

is still pretty interesting tho

[brisk cradle]

But when Mitt Romney is backing a form of basic income for families with children, you know they're on to something.

[pure jetty]

Mitt Romney loves to back things but never make any actions upon it

he'll support it when he knows that it would never make a difference

ie he only voted to impeach trump when he knew it would do nothing

[foggy fern]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56279202

EU says they're behind on their orders to them so is going to seize any they try to ship out of or through the EU until they're caught up

[pure jetty]

if the EU is trying to speedrun losing its members its doing real good rn

[foggy fern]

Not sure how that follows from this story

EU says AstraZeneca told them 100 million doses by the end of March but is only going to provide 40 million, EU says if you can't honor our contract you can't ship to other countries either

[plush crypt]

what in the fuck

fine them or something instead, blocking their trade of vital medicine to other allied countries is stupid

[foggy fern]

They put in the export controls in January, this is just the first time they've blocked a shipment

I guess they're flexing because they haven't liked what they've heard and seen over the last month

[pure jetty]

even the US doesn't block trade like this :))

[foggy fern]

The US talked about doing it for PPE but that was because companies wouldn't sell us as much as we wanted, not because they sold it then failed to deliver

Oh yeah, does the US still ban exporting oil?

Circling back to weird bans on exports 😄

iirc at this point it's basically a ban in name only, refineries "lightly refine" it so it's not technically raw crude but effectively still is then export that

Oh god this March 4 qanon stuff has gone full blown sovereign citizen crazy

It really is the katamari damacy of conspiracy theories

The idea stems from the belief among some QAnon followers that the United States turned from a country into a corporation after the passage of the District of Columbia Organic Act of 1871.

They think today Trump will have everyone arrested and announce he is still President and back in control

Past experience with doomsday cults has shown the opposite seems to happen

Which I guess makes sense, the people who fall for this stuff are going to be easy to convince the date just changed and having the date coming soon gets them press attention so more people fall in to their pit

They might get some churn as people leave but more people come in after seeing it on the news so the group grows overall

https://giphy.com/gifs/fx-charlie-always-sunny-l0IylOPCNkiqOgMyA

[pure jetty]

fuckin qanoners

[shut vine]

EU working great as it always does 🙂

[mystic ermine]

Basically

the EU took 3 months to order vaccines, which while the UK ordered 3 months earlier, means that we got our operations up and pumping and dealt with all of the issues which impacted supply of the materials/igredients needed to make the vaccine

the EU placed bets on multiple companies, took months to actually order, and afaik, only around the time of their bitchfest actually handed cash over

The EU basically stiffled their own supply through their own delays, no company is gonna sit there pumping out your order before you've even signed the damned thing

if you say, yea, I want 100m widgets by the end of the year, and you shake hands on that but don't sign the papers for 3 months, you can sure as heck bet that it's gonna be delayed

the EU is 100% on a powertrip in an attempt to cover for its own fuck ups, they got told that due to delays with getting the supply chain working and the fact that they took so long to actually order that their deliveries are gonna be behind, and are now basically tryna strong had to cover up and act as if AZ is in the wrong and screwed over the EU, whereas the EU fucked itself over

[foggy fern]

lol, the relief bill is being read in full "to the senate"

The Senators fucked right off and left this woman to read to an empty room

[dusky raft]

its a joke really, how much money is actually going towards the people?

[pure jetty]

$1,400 per person

other shit for married couples with kids

$20 billion for vaccine related shit

Funding for up to 100k health care works to administer vaccines

Funding for paid leave

Funding for minorities

Tenant Aid

Small biz grants

and then $350 billion state aid

so yes I'd say a lot is going to the people

[dusky raft]

I wish I can pull up data about stimulus checks, but I cannot seem to find the source

must be from the IRS, buried deep

[pure jetty]

about what

who gets what?

if that's the case

if a household makes less than 160k, it's 1.4k per person

[dusky raft]

where the money went, itemized in total

and how much checks the IRS gave out

[pure jetty]

oh on the past stimulus?

It's probably been close to 1T directly to people at this point

as I remember seeing 218B number in I think just May of last year

[tough cedar]

i'll actually get money this time lel i didn't get anything the first 2 times because i live with my parents still

assuming it passes in the senate ofc

[dusky raft]

fak, its not in my browser history, I wonder where the info went

ill find it later

but yeah, there was a list of the past 2 bills and where they went

ye, lets bail out college education

[pure jetty]

heh

[shut vine]

Heaps of it going to bailing out states that are in the red due to mismanagement.

[faint radish]

isn't only a tiny fraction of it slated to be spent this year?

I saw smth about the >100 bil going to schools that only 6 bil is for this year?

[shut vine]

The schools have barely touched the 110 billion that was allocated last year.

It's estimated by CBO that it wont be spent until 2023

[faint radish]

I mean if that's the case.... "following the science" my ass.

just a blatant money grab

[shut vine]

They also gave several upper class private schools millions which have over half a billion dollar endowments each already.

Well plan to give

The purpose of the money sent to the public school system is wholly for reasons the CDC claims is not necessary.

[faint radish]

yeah, its been said before, the teachers unions are just giving the whole school choice movement a massive boost

[shut vine]

School Choice, like people picking which school they go to?

[mystic ermine]

Yes

referred to as the school voucher system, it basically gives parents a means to control what school their children go to, rather than basically being stuck to schools which many people supposidly let own by other pressures are generally rather falling apart too

it basically means that those in run down areas are basically forced to stick to the run down schools in their areas, perpetuating the issues that that causes as schools are very rarely given extra budgeting, meaning schools falling apart are basically doomed to fall apart until the place either closes or somebody manages to get the district board of whatever it is to pump money in there, whiiiich is generally "glhf"

[misty herald]

Woah jroy has a contributor tag

[foggy fern]

School voucher system is mostly just seen as a way to give federal funding to religious schools

Although we'll probably get a bunch of Trump University style scams too

[dusky raft]

but it will give incentive towards school systems to improve their act

the high school I went to took money out of each town students were from, and the local high school suffered because it was a horrible choice. They lost so much that they cleaned their act within a few years

the average class is meant to be 200-220 students, but the class after mine only had 40 students.

@foggy fern primary and secondary do need to at least follow what the state requires

if religion is the forefront of education in a school, its kind of good luck in the workforce and college

[foggy fern]

Not even about being at the forefront, Catholic schools seem to be some of the best you can send your kids to without being a millionaire but they still have a church in the school, teach religion, and practice it during school hours

[faint radish]

https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/article/S-F-pays-61-000-a-year-for-one-tent-to-house-16001074.php

Ah yes. ~5k a month for a tent.

[foggy fern]

Everyone in SF immediately is like "I'll take it"

[faint radish]

rent isn't that bad in SF. I thought it was in the 4-5k already

but yeah I get your point 😛

[foggy fern]

https://twitter.com/shaun_vids/status/1367904095399538693

Shaun (@shaun_vids)

'go woke, go broke' became 'go woke, trick conservative media into running a week-long ad for your products' https://t.co/1qxVSWZtJz

Retweets

386

Likes

3583

Twitter · Mar 5, 2021, 6:25 PM

https://twitter.com/DineshDSouza/status/1367576180820443143

Dinesh D'Souza (@DineshDSouza)

Karma is a bitch department.

Dr. Seuss Books Hold 42 of Top 50 on Amazon Sales Ranking Chart https://t.co/GVN4Y7MPe5

Retweets

965

Likes

4685

Twitter · Mar 4, 2021, 8:42 PM

see also the woke brands video I linked the other day 😛

[faint radish]

well yeah, I mean props to the publishing company. I am however upset that you can't list the books on eBay

[pure jetty]

did ebay blacklist them? lmfao

[faint radish]

eBay takes them down under their "offensive content" policy... which is stupid. Seuss Enterprises can publish whatever it wants and if it wants to stop whatever

yeah

[pure jetty]

whatever i guess

[faint radish]

pretty sure I can find a copy of Mein Kampf (or however its spelled) on there rn

[pure jetty]

kinda weird but /shrug

free company

[faint radish]

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1311&_nkw=mein+kampf&_sacat=0

oh yeah totally, can do whatever they want, I can just not like them for it.

[eager hawk]

this Dr. Seuss stuff is killing me right now for how poorly its activism against their books have been executed. Like it's become the perfect example for republicans to use to persuade the public into villanizing liberals. I'm just -_-

[blazing junco]

didn't dr seuss have a change of heart or something and made books about being reformed as a person

they should just ban his racially insensitive books and keep the other ones up there

[foggy fern]

I've never heard of any serious campaign against Dr Seuss

Like, I think I've heard people mention problems with some of the characters but I've never seen any attempts at a boycott or anything

They seem to have just done it on their own out of nowhere, same as the potatohead thing (which isn't even really a thing...)

No idea why ebay would ban them though

Guessing people saw the story about them not being published anymore and piled on

[eager hawk]

At least how the Rupert Grint-funded media portrays it as such, saying there's wide claims to cancel all of Dr Seuss's books by the left. They point to some blue-checkmarked accounts with Twitter one-liners as proof of the "movement"

[foggy fern]

Rupert Murdoch?

Rupert Grint was Ron Weasley, I think

[eager hawk]

fudge

oml

im dumb thank you

😂

[restive seal]

https://giphy.com/gifs/harry-potter-ron-weasley-pFpzB1pzgxPbO

[restive seal]

Oh look it's Dinesh "The American slave was treated like property, which is to say, pretty well" D'Souza with more hot takes.

[urban knoll]

This actually works really well. My grandma bought two Dr. Seuss books this week 😆

[foggy fern]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-obesity/obesity-a-driving-factor-in-covid-19-deaths-global-report-finds-idUSKBN2AW1X0

[pure jetty]

Not surprising

Anything that puts stress on the lungs eh?

[near glen]

so thats why america has been hit so hard

runs

[mystic ermine]

am in another bout of tryna switch over to keto as my weight has never been anywhere near great and over lockdown with not feeling super safe enough to walk around the place as much, I've packed on a fair chunk

[near glen]

I just wanna go swimming again

with temps rising again I can at least get my bike out again I guess

I think am back at 80 again after going down to 75 last year

my peak was > 100 so nothing to be concerned about really, lol

[mystic ermine]

kg?

I weight myself this morning at like 108 or something

[near glen]

yeah

I was always around 75 as a kid, was big in armature sport, often 5 times a week, easily 15 hours of sport per week, then I just stopped, but continued to only eat shit, but not moving at all, so I quickly gained >30kg without noticing myself

then I lost 20kg in 10 months again years later when I went swimming once a week again and when I got beatsaber, lol

[shy gulch]

how tall are you guys

[mystic ermine]

5'7"ish, depends on the day of the week or something

[shy gulch]

yeah, 108 is a bit big for being 5'7", keto is a non carb diet from what I know?

[mystic ermine]

yup

[shy gulch]

it isn't really about carbs, more about the calories you eat, I would suggest firstly finding lower calorie substitutes for the food you enjoy (milk, yoghurt, snacks...) and eating protein rich foods more since they tend to fill you up more, eggs are a great protein breakfast

[mystic ermine]

I find that calorie restriction doesn't really work for me

either leaves me feeling starving or basically I somehow accidently stop eating

[near glen]

~186

[near glen]

thing is, I dont wanna deal with any of that bullshit 😄

ill just eat whatever the fuck I want

[shy gulch]

i mean

you're 80 at 186

that's pretty normal

i praise people with a fast metabolism though

[mystic ermine]

kneny

if you don't shut the fuck up

I'll blow you over

[shy gulch]

try working out maybe then? you would probably lose weight slower but that fat would be exchanged for some muscle

yessir

[near glen]

oh yeah, but I dont like having fat on my belly, lol, so gotta get rid of that again

[shy gulch]

kneny how are u 65 at 180 wat

metabolism go brrrr

[mystic ermine]

When he was younger, he said he wanted to be a kite

[shy gulch]

he can be the rope of the kite

thin and tall

[mystic ermine]

got a few meters on the thing, shame it could be threaded by a needle

[shy gulch]

get knenybugged lol

[mystic ermine]

but yea, I tried reducing calories, I generally only eat like two meals a day, and outside of illness generally walk like an hour a day just for the kicks of it

[shy gulch]

any progress from doing that?

[mystic ermine]

well, just kicked back up keto after having a break from it, and not walked much due to lockdown (& police being wankers about stuff) and health issues, but, I was losing pretty good last I tried it

[shy gulch]

then go for it my guy (i think)

[small root]

.wa

Sad

Too many conversion

[shy gulch]

that's great, but cycling and running won't really get you muscle weight, it's more for losing it lol, try going to the gym and lifting some smaller weights until you can be comfortable with bigger ones, but don't overforce it]

also, eat some protein darn it

[small root]

Gotta start hitting the weights there bud

It’s bulking season

[shy gulch]

gotta get that summer body

[mystic ermine]

gym

you mean those buildings with the padlocks on them?

[shy gulch]

they're closed where you live? really

well that is a bruh moment

[foggy fern]

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-ap-top-news-legislation-coronavirus-pandemic-joe-manchin-298ad8c447e9a121ece9529221e83136

[pure jetty]

[dusky raft]

wouldnt be shocked if I dont see it, I never saw the $600 because fuck the IRS.

[pure jetty]

You may get a rebate credit in that case

I think you file that in your tax return?

Not a CPA but a friend had the same happen to them and they said something along those lines got them it

[dusky raft]

im still waiting on 2019 to be processed

[pure jetty]

ah

[foggy fern]

UK's vaccine plan seems to be that you need two shots but what's in the shot or how long before you get the second one don't really matter 😛

They're talking about mixing the mRNA ones and the Oxford one now

[pure jetty]

seems like a bad idea

are vaccines administered by the NHS there

or do they have stuff like CVS's there

[dusky raft]

this is kind of why im wary about a public healthcare system

[pure jetty]

there's places it works

in the US generally the system people talk about nationalizing is insurance

debate on that is generally on to which degree we should do that

[mystic ermine]

NHS is doing it afaik

I thiiink that there was studies which showed that one singular dose was "k enough" in terms of effectiveness, but, they're pushing it longer than the manf recommended last I recall, i thiiink they dropped the delay a bit but, they're generally going for % of first doses rather than fully dosed so it seems

I mean, I guess it's better to have everybody with some level of protection than not, but, eerrr....

and, I mean, the issue with the US is that you often hear calls to address issues like "Yea, we'll just have federal health insurance", but, you never hear how they're gonna not make that insurance pot a massive hill of free gold for healthcare providers to just overcharge for, would leave for higher tax rates to pay for this which would, as per typical with this crap, likely impact those on the breadline the worst

[pure jetty]

yeah that's generally a problem with single payer

expanding medicare is much better

[mystic ermine]

that's the thing is that people hear "free shit from government" and don't realise that they'll pay for it in taxes instead

So, yea, they'll no longer have to pay for insurance*, but, they'll just have to pay higher tax rates

• caveat here is sorta like we have in the UK, we have a free healthcare system but anything that the NHS doesn't deem essential is not covered, waiting lists can also be months long which is why a good few dozen large companies offer health benefits coz they'd rather have people able to go private than wait around for the NHS

[pure jetty]

well yes that can be a problem but expanding medicare to the people who legit cannot afford it isn't that expensive

a majority of americans get their healthcare through their job

since full time jobs are required to provide health benefits

the rich can afford it

which leaves the poor

[mystic ermine]

Yea, I mean, fix the insurance discounts and focus on providing services to those that need it

I mean, I'm not sure who's government I distrust more, mine or the US 😄

[eager hawk]

at least here in the US replacing insurance payments with higher taxes makes it much more cheaper for the average person

[mystic ermine]

at the same point of not really fixing the issue and fucking over those who are on the breadline even more

[plush crypt]

over here public healthcare is really good

waiting lists can still be long, though. depends what you need, really

[mystic ermine]

most of our GP practices are generally somewhat understaffed so getting an appointment for some can be a royal PITA or virtually next to impossible unless you're up at like 9am or whenever the phones open and can basically dial like crazy, you might get an appointment within the same week, some GPs have like a 2 week lead up

hospital care is generally fine but ER waits can be like 12 hours for a broken bone to be thrown in a cast

There's many dozens of stories of people basically hurling in the ER waiting room coz they're in so much pain and basically having to wait a good period of time to be seen

mental health services seems to be more of a city thing rather than a NHS thing, which is also a PITA because their age range gaps between services is pretty slim, so you can often spend like a year of being passed around the service before you meet somebody who you can actually stick with, and many times by that point with waiting lists, etc, you've only got like a year or so before you gotta move on to another service

the entire system is mismanaged and underfunded

Issue is that being ran by government, their budget is determined by government, which means that they have no real means to get extra cash in outside of maybe some level of fundraising, think we had some war vet other month who pulled in a good chunk of change, before he died from covid (which am not pointing, but, it was generally around the time he was being thrown around by the media for those feel good stories, etc)

[plush crypt]

the 100 year old walking in his garden, right?

[mystic ermine]

yup

[foggy fern]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/05/us/politics/trump-proud-boys-capitol-riot.html

Location, cellular and call record data revealed a call tying a Proud Boys member to the Trump White House, the official said.

[near glen]

https://mobile.twitter.com/albertwenger/status/1365699765942509569?s=19

Albert Wenger 🌎🔥⌛ (@albertwenger)

My book The World After Capital https://t.co/JvRQFHlvZn in 64 tweets

Likes

369

Twitter · Feb 27, 2021, 4:26 PM

Really interesting thread, thsts the kinda visions for change we need for the next decades

While I don't agree with every point there, the direction is right

[dusky raft]

isnt Swedish healthcare decentralized?

its completely opposite to what universal healthcare in the US wants to do and what a lot of public healthcare systems dont go with

[shut vine]

Correct

[dusky raft]

yeah, I consider sweden's healthcare to have some advantage over something like the NHS and medicare for all because its not tied down under a single monolithic system. This effectively forces some "competition" to get more people in for taxes

[near glen]

I don't know how exactly sweden's system works, but i think it's similar here in germany (it's for sure not whatever the fuck nhs is doing)

[lyric stream]

"whatever the fuck nhs is doing" ah yes we are back to conflating the product of a decade of Tory goverments acting to undermine the NHS with the efficacy of the system as a concept

[brisk cradle]

Nice https://twitter.com/populismupdates/status/1270416646532771841?s=21

Populism Updates (@PopulismUpdates)

Taro Yamamoto is a politician and former actor who has been called Japan's Bernie Sanders. Recently his party Reiwa Shinsengumi have put out posters supporting universal basic income. Poster's translation is "Print fat stacks of money, hand that shit out to everyone"

Retweets

3238

Likes

15436

Twitter · Jun 9, 2020, 6:05 PM

[eager hawk]

uhhhh damn that's a way to make japan also divisive and make economists go mad. but i love the newfound energy brought to try to cycle out the old moldy politicians. better than leaving in the fucking revisionists

[vast sundial]

.optimize

[faint radish]

Interesting. CDC says you can stop wearing a mask and social distancing indoors with other unvaccinated people once you’ve gotten the vaccine (2 weeks after).

Gonna follow the science on this one.

(Aka stop wearing a mask indoors)

[tough cedar]

as long as it's a household of low risk people, yes

[mystic ermine]

They where saying other month that you're still capable of transmission even vaccinated

sooo, errrrrr....

[tough cedar]

well you still have to wear the mask in public

whether that's because you can still get it or because they're trying to prevent morons from saying that they've gotten the vaccine or not who knows

[pure jetty]

i mean the spreading of the virus is a physics one kinda, you can still physically cary the virus

[tough cedar]

oh, yea that too lol

[pure jetty]

but it appears that the vaccine either prevents or extremely limits the virus' ability to use your cells to make more of itself and spread

[faint radish]

Hey, I’m just following the science 🙂

[foggy fern]

iirc further studies have suggested asymptomatic spread isn't a big concern either

And getting infected after having the vaccine should be about the same condition

But iirc the CDC guidelines said you should only skip the mask if you were in private places, as in you could go to a friend's house now

They wanted people to mask up still in public out of caution and for solidarity to encourage people to keep wearing a mask until we all get vaccinated

[pure jetty]

yeah plus it would be a he-said-she-said on who has the vaccine

[foggy fern]

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated-guidance.html

Says you can visit your friends but should wear a mask in public

Basically in public follow all the same rules you would if you didn't have the vaccine but now you can visit friends and family again so long as they're vaccinated too

Or a single household that isn't vaccinated but is considered low risk

Oh, and no concerts still

These restrictions are partly to keep the unvaccinated people following the rules too and partly because the vaccine might not work for you

[mystic ermine]

ah, interesting

over here we got told it did nothing

guess the research changed \o/

(then again, my government is about 2 weeks late to everything else, so...)

[faint radish]

They can’t say it “does nothing” anymore... you want to encourage people to actually get the vaccine? You “have” to recommended letting them do more things.

[mystic ermine]

not a good excuse

if the science changed, great, good news

if that's just a "plz get vaccine", that's dangerous

[faint radish]

What if more people getting the vaccine because of incentives actually saves MORE lives in the long run?

This is why the whole “follow the science” is dangerous. It’s never as simple as “How can we save the most people tomorrow?”

There are multiple angles to look at the Covid restrictions through.

[mystic ermine]

people lambousted fauci for saying masks aren't needed for the purpose of tryna keep stock for those who needed them urgently

[faint radish]

We could save 10000s of lives if we halved all speed limits. But is that a good idea? No, we accept some risk of higher speed limits for productivity

[mystic ermine]

Like, for me, I have 0 interest in having the vaccine

until the risks have drastically increased, am generally keeping away from people outside of neccessity until the risk drops

[faint radish]

It’s a balancing act, not all other points of view being overridden by one.

[pure jetty]

this isn't a good argument, the person following all rules isn't a danger in the first place

the people who cause harm on roadways are already breaking some rule

speed limit/texting/DUI/etc

[faint radish]

That isn’t true... plain old accidents happen all the time

You don’t have to be doing something wrong, it was just an accident

And having it happen at higher speeds = more likely to die

[mystic ermine]

people would have much more trust in politicians if the info wasn't jumping around all over the place and we didn't have politicians lying "for our own good"

damn, makes me wanna go rewatch chernobyl

[pure jetty]

and also car crashes are not contagious

[faint radish]

That isn’t the comparison....

[foggy fern]

The changing guidelines and info is because they're following the science 😛

Turns out it takes time to get a handle on a novel virus

The key is in the name

[faint radish]

The point is there are lots of options to make life safer that we don’t do because it would harm some other aspect of our lives.

[mystic ermine]

I said, if the science has changed, great

If we're being told this because "gotta convince people to have the vaccine", fuck 'em

[foggy fern]

iirc the impression everyone had was that it's actually the other way around

[faint radish]

Science isn’t un-spinnable

[foggy fern]

They had to lift some of the restrictions otherwise people who got the vaccine would just ignore all of the rules

[faint radish]

I didn’t hear that, but I would believe it.

[foggy fern]

Ideally they'd want everyone to pretend a vaccine didn't exist until 80% of us have had it

[faint radish]

It might not ever get to 80%

[foggy fern]

I bet in 2022 it'll be a requirement for a child to go to school

[faint radish]

I’m almost positive it can’t be a requirement in all states

[foggy fern]

And only won't be for the next school year because they haven't finished the testing and we don't have the supply or distribution to give it to all the kids

[faint radish]

Mainly cause I never got the shots my schools in CA “required”

I’ve only had 2 shots in my entire life

[foggy fern]

This is a good chance for states to reconsider their vaccine exception policies too

[faint radish]

I think they already would’ve pre-Covid if they could

Like why wouldn’t they have already required flu and stuff?

[foggy fern]

Can kids get the flu shot?

[faint radish]

No clue, but you need the MMR one, tetanus probably

Do they still do polio? I have no clue

[sand shale]

rip

[tough cedar]

i got the flu shot when i was a kid a few times

[foggy fern]

In NY you have to get DTaP, HepB, MMR, Polio, and Chickenpox vaccines

[faint radish]

Wdym RIP? I’m doing just fine.

[foggy fern]

Polio and MMR are the major ones

[tough cedar]

flu shot or the nasal spray

[foggy fern]

Chickenpox vaccine wasn't even a thing when I was a kid, I missed that one by like 5-10 years

[pure jetty]

herd immunity :))

[faint radish]

I’ll get the Covid vaccine. Especially if it’s a requirement for spectators in Tokyo for the Olympics (if they allow spectators)

[foggy fern]

Wait you were talking earlier like you already had it

[faint radish]

??

[foggy fern]

Or were you just going to pretend you had it so you can stop wearing a mask? 😛

[faint radish]

Oh that, no I was really just being facetious

Wearing a mask is a simple way to dramatically reduce your risk of getting it. Not planning on stopping really.

Plus, it’s not like I’m going anywhere populated in the first place 😛

[foggy fern]

Wearing a mask is a minor reduction in your chance of getting it

A sick person wearing a mask is a major reduction in your chance of getting it from them

But since you can get sick and be somewhat spreading it for up to 2 weeks before symptoms everyone should wear a mask

[brisk cradle]

Meghan Markle knows what’s right: we need unions https://twitter.com/aftunion/status/1368961211753172997?s=21

[faint radish]

I wear the N95 masks. Those provide more protection from getting it.

[foggy fern]

Oh yeah, properly fitted N95 with a surgical mask on top and there is almost no chance you'll get it

Properly fitting an N95 takes a class though, like doctors and nurses spend a day being taught how to do it and practicing

[faint radish]

Well I didn’t do that. I just followed this https://blogs.cdc.gov/niosh-science-blog/2020/03/16/n95-preparedness/

[tough cedar]

upside down is incorrect!!!

[foggy fern]

You see that a lot with the ones meant for keeping dust out (afaik it's the same thing just less regulations), guy will be doing drywall work all day then take the mask off and have streaks of dirt from the corners of his mouth to the edge of the mask

It kept most of the dust out they he didn't put it on right so a lot still got in

iirc the main problem is wearing it right means wearing it so tightly after a couple hours it's bruised your face

That's not comfortable so people don't want to do it

[foggy fern]

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/07/974630640/switzerland-approves-ban-on-face-coverings-in-public

Researchers found that at most a few dozen Muslim women wear full face coverings in Switzerland. About 5% of Switzerland's population of 8.6 million is Muslim, the BBC reported.

I mean, I guess? Sounds like it's a law that doesn't really apply to anyone so I guess you can only be for/against it on philosophical terms, there is no practical side

[brisk cradle]

Looking at policies like the ban on burqas, it's actually surprising that the two major American political parties (yes, even the neo-fascist faction of the Republican Party) tend to be more liberal than some European parties. A burqa ban would not fly in the U.S., since you could rightfully argue that such a ban contravenes the First Amendment.

[foggy fern]

Yeah but that'd require being consistent and rational with your beliefs

People will say they should be allowed to put the nativity scene in front of city hall because religious freedom but burqas should be banned

[brisk cradle]

Of course. The GOP and the Democrats have proven adept at being inconsistent. Democrats tend to fare a bit better here.

[mystic ermine]

My bestie is muslim and it's like, as people become more "integrated" with the western culture, they tend to drop some of the practices like people having to wear burqa's, etc, but there is still a fair chunk of expectation that people wear it by elders, and many still do

[foggy fern]

This is a complicated issue for a liberal because we don't want to stop the people who wear them by choice but on the other hand they're used to oppress women

[mystic ermine]

I don't recall ever seeing her mother wearing one, no idea if she did

But, ^

arranged marriages are still heavily a thing

[pure jetty]

at the same time you'd have the freedom to not wear it anyway, no?

[foggy fern]

Except not really in a lot of situations

Like, legally yes but practically no

[mystic ermine]

"corporal punishment" style teaching was a thing in their mosque schools years ago

[foggy fern]

If there is just an outright ban they have an excuse for why they can't wear it

[mystic ermine]

I have no idea if it still is, but a lot of the structures which sorta like permit that in a "hush don't tell" style policy is like...

[pure jetty]

so they often will keep it on to remain consistent with their religion but won't like it?

[mystic ermine]

some fathers do still try to force it upon their children and a good % still do

We had a guy in my class who literally wouldn't speak to any females in the class

[foggy fern]

Wear it or get a beating, wear it or get thrown out of the house, wear it or get locked in the closet, wear it or be ejected from your entire social structure

[mystic ermine]

and, she was saying that that's basically how they're taught, but, you are permitted to talk to people for business type purposes, etc

the entire social structure is also generally heavily around women basically flashing off with stuff like jewelry

for weddings you're basically expected to spent a ton of stuff like clothing

many actually hire people to come out and do their makeup, etc

My mates mother shamefully recently passed away from cancer with everything going on sorta bolstering detection and stuff, but, even she as like, "modern" as she was was sorta like hinting to her daughter to get married and that they knew people, she managed to convince her father to hold it all off until she graduates, and now she's currently dating a girl which is a MASSIVE no-no

there's a lot of stuff which women aren't supposed to do because they're women and can get them cast out of their family, smoking, drinking, socialising with boys can even create a loooot of drama in the culture

I disagree with religion in general, I mean, have whatever belief system you want so long as you're not forcing it on (or harming) others, etc

[dusky raft]

The problem I see is that middle eastern groups are not integrating with western ideals as fast as past groups in Europe/US

[mystic ermine]

The issue is that their ideals are basically uno reverse upon most western cultures

wasn't there one muslim country which only allowed women drivers within the past like decade?

[faint radish]

uno... I need to play that again

[mystic ermine]

There is heavily a sense that in the muslim culture that a wife is basically property, there to serve, cook, clean for her man

[faint radish]

I think Saudi Arabia started allowing women drivers recently?

[mystic ermine]

Like, a women having a job is like a, inconcevhable and even bad

a women shouldn't be working, she should be looking after the house and children

[dusky raft]

yes, counter to western ideology.

[mystic ermine]

And, this isn't even stuff which I've read on the internet, this is stuff I've seen from my own eyes and from talking with my mate and her friends and hearing all the stories and such

[faint radish]

I think it really boils down to... you can do what you want re-religious choices, but it cannot be a crime against the state to violate them

great episode in The West Wing after 9/11 about it

[mystic ermine]

To sound like a potential douche, it wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't a few dozen muslim women silently cheering right now

maybe not a huge % given that's the culture and how people are brought up, but, like, it really is that bad in some cultures

it's crazy, my mates mother and her father was basically a love marriage, they basically met while at school abroad or something and ended up getting married

either her father or her mothers parents where basically like, close to royals in some capacity, think one of them was a chafaur and the woman basically fell in love with him and they ended up running off into the sunset together as she didn't wanna be forced into marrying somebody else, and love marriages, especially to people lower down than you, is a deeefinate no

[faint radish]

oh wait, you are in the UK right cat? have any thoughts on the latest royal family scandal? apparently enough people in the US care about this one to make it a big story here

[mystic ermine]

Eeeerrrm, I mean, there's a handful in the "racist old bastard" states where people wouldn't be surprised

but, being frank, a good chunk of people really don't give a shit to hear what she says

she's basically sorta known to be a compulsive liar practically

[faint radish]

huh... Story is big here I guess because "systemic racism" has kinda been a story in the US for a bit now, and this falls into that grouping of stories

[foggy fern]

There were definitely racist news stories about her, they even showed them during the interview

And the big thing about their baby was something he said, I thought

[faint radish]

yeah, I've seen the comparisons between stories about her and kate

[mystic ermine]

I mean, it's one of those things I know too little about

first i heard she said, then it was he said, but he refused to clarify who which basically has the entire family in shade right now

It's sorta been a public tugging competition between the royal family and them lot

I think a lot of brits are really done with the entire situation

royal family really does jack shit outside of being a pretty face

[faint radish]

Is there a good chance the royal family continues after the queen dies?

[mystic ermine]

They cost an absolute fortune and really don't have any form of actual power

I mean, legally, yes

there have been many calls to abolish it, but, I got no idea what control they have over that, really

[faint radish]

Oh thank you wise CDC, granter-of-freedoms.

The source of my freedom certainly is not the CDC much less the government.

[foggy fern]

Wait did they push back Q day again?

[faint radish]

?

[foggy fern]

The day Trump takes power and arrests everyone

It was supposed to be a bunch of times while he was President then it was supposed to be Jan 6, then Jan 20, then Mar 4, and now it's supposed to be the 20th apparently

https://www.newsweek.com/qanon-theorists-switch-date-march-20-after-no-trump-inauguration-call-4th-false-flag-1573871

[tough cedar]

la mao

[foggy fern]

"Biden is acting as president as a ruse while the Pope and others are rounded up,"

[drifting arch]

qanon still kicking

[pure jetty]

any day now

just you wait

i'm actually curious how many times they'll move the goal post lmfao

[dusky raft]

I dont think anything will happen

I really don't, I think its just instilling utter nonsense.

The media and establishment is fucking begging for another uprising just to prove a point.

[pure jetty]

?

i don't think anyone wants that nor sane people actually think anything will happen

[foggy fern]

oof

https://twitter.com/fer_machado123/status/1368921104211980292

Fer Machado (@fer_machado123)

Only 24% of chef positions in US are occupied by women.

That’s why the BK Foundation launched a culinary scholarship program to bring more women to leadership positions in the industry.

Women belong in the kitchen if they want to work there. And hopefully in leadership roles.

Likes

220

Twitter · Mar 8, 2021, 1:46 PM

[faint radish]

Yeah, I think someone at BurgerKingUK subscribes to the “all publicity is good publicity” theory

It seems there is a lack of nuance in the world today, and I think the people “outraged” over this are missing part of the story.

[foggy fern]

They made sure you'd miss part of the story

In social media they made it as two posts and in the newspaper but put the context below the fold

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/08/rnc-trump-cease-and-desist-474412

tldr:
Trump: Stop using my image
RNC: Go fuck yourself

They gave him an out though, said it must have been people around him because Trump wouldn't do that

[faint radish]

Do you really think BurgerKing was trying to dog whistle all those sexists out there?

It’s an attention grabber that gets you to click

(Or read more)

[pure jetty]

doubt it was a dog whistle but very poor marketing

nobody cares enough to read more

On my timeline I only see people posting the first tweet

[foggy fern]

After some people replied to the first tweet and got more likes or retweets they pushed BK's reply off the screen anyway

[faint radish]

I totally figured Twitter would prioritize your own replies to your tweet since threads are really common...

[shy gulch]

Or very good marketing

Got a lot of people talking about Burger King

[pure jetty]

good marketing in the sense that bad press is good press but bad in the sense that it was bad press

[pure jetty]

https://twitter.com/YouTubeCreators/status/1369344646908936198

YouTube Creators (@YouTubeCreators)

If you’re a YPP creator outside of the U.S., important tax changes are coming later this year that may affect your YPP earnings ⚠️

Find out what’s happening, and what you need to do, below ⬇️

Likes

374

Twitter · Mar 9, 2021, 5:49 PM

these replies

people totally misunderstanding tax code

[meager ice]

https://twitter.com/schauerland/status/1369347239651536902?s=20

Schaui⛈️ (@schauerland)

@YouTubeCreators So.. this is tax only for views that come from US IPs?
Can we block US from our videos then?

Twitter · Mar 9, 2021, 5:59 PM

[pure jetty]

lmfao

do they think that they pay more than they get from US users

[meager ice]

some people just hate taxes beyond reason

or maybe they really hate the US government so much that they would prefer not to give them any revenue

[mystic ermine]

they have to charge tax on income

looks like you can sign a tax declaration which will give you the tax free stuff if you should have it?

that's pretty much how it works everywhere else

[pure jetty]

give or take

the US really likes to charge taxes for everything possible

[mystic ermine]

I know on patreon I had to sign a tax declaration and say that I was excempt from paying US tax due to the treaty

[pure jetty]

yeah UK/AU/CA all don't need to have US tax withheld

[light sentinel]

since printin money is goin so well 4 em y dont they just print shit instead of taxing ppl

abolish taxes

[mystic ermine]

i think i've seen that one before

[light sentinel]

yea man we should b swimmin in inflation rn & we're not

the us is now a post-inflation society & must start actin as such

[pure jetty]

can you not shitpost in here

unless that's a genuine opinion in which case please never talk about politics ever again

[light sentinel]

shit...post? ._.

[faint radish]

Yikes, Ofcom is investigating piers Morgan... I didn’t realize the UK had a regulatory body for the media...

That’s a big no no in my book.

Glad to see Jake tapper on the right side of this. https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1369396040571486220?s=21

Jake Tapper (@jaketapper)

This is what happens when you live in a country where there is no First amendment. Insanity:

Variety: ‘U.K. media regulator Ofcom launched an investigation after more than 41,000 people complained about Piers Morgan’s comments on Meghan Markle.’

https://t.co/RtR2mndKdb

Retweets

758

Likes

4566

Twitter · Mar 9, 2021, 9:13 PM

[meager ice]

UK is a nanny state

[shut vine]

Interestingly the IRS implemented PDF form returns in like 1996.

Lmfao, investigate someone because they don't believe something.

I mean I disagree with most of his views, but investigating him because he doesn't trust Meghan's word is utterly insane.

Well most of the ones I've heard at least.

[faint radish]

Yes, it’s nuts. The government can have 0 part in regulating the media (for content). Any regulation is just ripe for exploitation.

Should clarify I’m talking about content-based regulations here

[shut vine]

I'm assuming also specifically opinion content?

[pure jetty]

yeah same

[shut vine]

i.e. a paper cannot slander someone, but they can have an opinion.

[pure jetty]

the FCC can regulate broadcast television since they're licensing frequencies

[mystic ermine]

Fwiw

general public doesn't give a shit about meghan

She's basically an actor who married into royalty and basically has caused drama and chaos with the royal family for the past fuck knows how long

[faint radish]

How can the FCC regulate content without being afoul of 1st amendment?

[pure jetty]

they're licensing frequencies to broadcast over air

[mystic ermine]

But, yea, UK is nanny state AF

[pure jetty]

the government can have conditions for licenses

they have them for radio and tv

no swearing during x times

etc

they don't regulate cable tv though

[faint radish]

Right ok. Got it.

[pure jetty]

(although a lot of cable tv follows the same rules anyway)

[shut vine]

Regardless it's insane to take legal action against someone because they have an opinion about something.

[mystic ermine]

you know how we have that show in the UK where we send some celebs nobody bar daytime TV watchers these days give a shit about to prisioner island?

[shut vine]

Media or not, they can have literally any opinion about you and there should be no legal repercussions.

[mystic ermine]

We had like the RSPCA or whatever investigate the show

because they killed a rat and cooked it

[shut vine]

Or any opinion about anything.

[mystic ermine]

No joke

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1249319/ITV-fined-2-000-rat-killed-eaten-Im-A-Celebrity.html

[shut vine]

LOL

Oh my god, I thought it was like a cooking show or something and I was like,.. that's pretty stupid.

But it's a survival reality show.

[mystic ermine]

Oh, maybe that was more on the sussie branch, but, still

[shut vine]

So it's bonkers

[mystic ermine]

I mean, they're basically shoved on a camp in the middle of nowhere and given tins of rice and beans if they don't win stars

I think that year, there was somebody on there who was "fun"

[shut vine]

Wonder if the RSPCA will start fining rat poison companies.

[mystic ermine]

ah, yea, Gillian McKeith, basically, she was a fainter

and, well, british public are assholes

[shut vine]

Like that literally kills them slowly and painfully, vs killing in the moment.

[mystic ermine]

rspca has been against killing rats for years

[shut vine]

The rat poison literally thins their blood so they have lots of internal hemorrhages and bleed to death.

Oh yea, but they don't fine them. 😛

[mystic ermine]

I mean, we'er in such a nanny state, give it a few years

they took all of the good traps off the shelves these days, tbqh

[shut vine]

Ah so the traps these days only maim rats?

[mystic ermine]

best you can generally find is like the sticky pads or the live trap tilt things which generally kill them anyways

all of the sorta like traditional traps are generally only really good for like smaller mice and are kinda hard to find last we went looking

[ebon seal]

the glue traps are the absolute least humane way

those are only for insects, fuck insects

[mystic ermine]

Yea, see, I remember like a good few years ago that getting decent traps was basically 'good luck' as they tried to push the whole humane stuff, and so best you could generally get was live catch which gave them heart attacks (we'd ensure they where dead anyways, couldn't release far away and generally we lived by a river so, generally pointless running around), or the pads which where only really useful for smaller animals

Looks like you can get proper traps again, at least on amazon

[keen swift]

This is a healthy channel

[dusky raft]

compared to other politics channels, it could be worse.

[keen swift]

What country is paper developed in

[dusky raft]

or dedicated discord servers to politics

[keen swift]

That sounds like fun

[faint radish]

pretty sure the paper org is registerd in the DPRK 🙂

[ebon seal]

no that was paper 1.0

they've moved down south now

[eager hawk]

I haven't read much on what Piers Morgan said but if whatever he said offended some people to the point where 41k people sign a petition then I think the "opinion" was more than just an opinion. But again I'm not informed on the situation so I'll come back later

[faint radish]

lol it doesnt matter how many people sign whatever. If you start policing the media based on content.... 🤷‍♂️ that's the game.

and if the company employing him wants him gone, whatever, totally fine, but the government getting involved because of the content of what a journalist says is a bad thing

[foggy fern]

Markle said that she had approached people in the Royal “institution” for help after she had suicidal thoughts, but was turned down.

“Who did you go to? What did they say to you? I’m sorry, I don’t believe a word she said, Meghan Markle. I wouldn’t believe it if she read me a weather report,” Morgan said on the show.

People get touchy when you joke about suicide, I guess

Not joke as in funny, as in not take it seriously

[faint radish]

and that's totally fine. I also think he went wayyyy to far with his comments. my issue is that the government has anything to do with that.

[eager hawk]

Is there even any info besides an "investigation" happening on Piers that the government is doing

[foggy fern]

Eh, if it's anything like the FCC worst case they'll have a small fine or something

[faint radish]

https://www.businessinsider.com/ofcom-investigating-piers-morgan-after-41000-complaints-2021-3

[foggy fern]

Someone must have pulled him aside during a commercial or something because later he already gave the PSA on suicide

[eager hawk]

Yeah for someone who's probably had a similar experience where their suicidal ideation has been invalidated, they will get upset/triggered. I hope you weren't implying it was a bad thing they were getting "touchy" about it.

[faint radish]

Ofcom says its goal is

to provide adequate protection for members of the public from the inclusion in such services of harmful and/or offensive material

which is a big no no

(Ofcom is the agency doing the investigating)

[foggy fern]

I don't know about the government having anything to say about it but his producer and such were right to call him out and make him clean up his statement

[eager hawk]

Is Ofcom a private company? I've never heard of it

[foggy fern]

I think Ofcom is like the UK FCC

[faint radish]

it can levy fines... no private company can fine companies

[foggy fern]

Ofcom, the agency that oversees the broadcasting, telecommunications, and postal industries in the United Kingdom

Oh no he resigned, that probably means he's going to end up on CNN again

[faint radish]

basically, if it comes down to a guy with a gun forcing you to do something, its the government

[foggy fern]

Or OANN

[eager hawk]

So you're against any form of governmental oversight on media? Do you identify yourself as a libertarian? Just clearing up

[faint radish]

I'm against government restricting any form of speech or freedom of the press

[eager hawk]

"Investigation" != restricting speech or freedom of the press

[foggy fern]

https://twitter.com/chrisrickett/status/1369177870191460353

Chris Rickett (@chrisrickett)

Piers Morgan just walked off the Good Morning Britain set (!!!) after co-presenter Alex Beresford defended Harry and Meghan and condemned Piers' treatment of them in yesterday's programming https://t.co/mH75J8ND4O

Retweets

61439

Likes

323920

▶ Play video

Twitter · Mar 9, 2021, 6:46 AM

[faint radish]

no matter how racist, offensive, sexist, bigoted, anything

an investigation means it can deal out a punishment

which is indeed a restriction...

[foggy fern]

Even the investigation could be considered stifling free speech

[faint radish]

yes probably

[foggy fern]

Any outcome of the investigation other than "you're fine" definitely is

If his coworkers don't want to work with him anymore and his boss wants to get rid of him though, that's fine

[faint radish]

yes absolutely. private companies do/should not have to follow that rule

[eager hawk]

Aren't these issues that you'd need some regulation over if you want to protect the people? You're okay with hate crimes skyrocketing, for example, that has correlation with media disinformation? And no, free speech at least as defined in the US doesn't protect speeches that deliberately cause hate.

[faint radish]

umm what are you talking about? hateful speech is 100% protected by the 1st amendment

there isn't a "unless the speech is hateful" qualification

"protect the people"... mm hmm. Everything totalitarian/authoritarian regimes do is to "project the people"

which nether the US or UK is thankfully

[foggy fern]

Hate speech is often incitement so that's blurring the line

[faint radish]

but "protecting the people" is such a general reason

yeah, incitement of violence is in fact illegal, and totally fine w/that

but they aren't the same

[foggy fern]

Anyway, this is you arguing for something the UK has never had. They don't have a guaranteed freedom of speech and do have hate speech laws

[faint radish]

yeah, I just brought it up cause I didn't know it was as bad as it is.

[foggy fern]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_the_United_Kingdom

[eager hawk]

"freedom of speech does not prevent punishing conduct that intimidates, harasses, or threatens another person, even if words are used. Threatening phone calls, for example, are not constitutionally protected."

[foggy fern]

They've had that law since 1986 even

[eager hawk]

Though yes, machine maker I was wrong on hate speech being prohibited, thank you for grounding me to the facts :)

https://www.aclu.org/other/freedom-expression-aclu-position-paper

[foggy fern]

Hate speech as a concept isn't illegal in the US but hate speech can often be considered incitement which is so you're probably better off trying to avoid it

[eager hawk]

I'll defamiloarize with the previous viewpoint I had on free speech restrictions. I have been misinformed on some parts and I'll get to fixing that

[faint radish]

the ACLU used to be a great org. imo they've kinda fallen.
I honestly don't think they'd do this again.
https://www.aclu.org/other/aclu-history-taking-stand-free-speech-skokie

when the ACLU defended Neo-Nazis right to demonstrate in jewish neighborhoods

[foggy fern]

They'd probably lose their funding if they did that today

I suspect their donors went from majority libertarians to majority progressives at some point

[eager hawk]

What Piers said, if we assume US free speech laws are in place, can be considered intimidating/harassing Meghan. I think an investigation can be appropriate for this reason.

[foggy fern]

Nah, he'd have to be doing it repeatedly or to her in person for that

[faint radish]

mmm idk about that. way harsher things have been said about Trump on the news.

[eager hawk]

It's because I just learned establishing restrictions of any sort of speech due to the contents can be exploited by the govt

[foggy fern]

Any power you give the government can be abused by a bad government

[eager hawk]

^

[faint radish]

hey, that's why you give them at little as possible

[foggy fern]

First Amendment is the most important there to ensure those abuses can be made public

[faint radish]

that way, if another Trump comes along, just shrug

[eager hawk]

So machine maker, would you agree with this or no?

[foggy fern]

He already disagreed with it 😛

[faint radish]

yeah, a press that knows it can't be prosecuted for its content has no qualms reporting on gov corruption

yeah, I said no. Worse stuff is said all the time about people

[eager hawk]

You didn't imply what you meant when you said touchy right? Just going back since you didn't respond on it

[faint radish]

if it was in private or smth, maybe

[foggy fern]

It's all about checks and balances right? The press is the check on failings of the government

[faint radish]

mm hmm

[eager hawk]

Not if the majority of press companies are funded by private corporations and is covered to suit their interests lol

Oh

LMAO

[foggy fern]

/s

[faint radish]

what would the press be funded by if NOT a private company...

[eager hawk]

Ads? Subscription payments by readers?

[faint radish]

that's what it is now?

[foggy fern]

I suppose the UK has a fairly "healthy" print market but I thought most of their radio and TV journalism was still from the BBC

[eager hawk]

..i think so?

[foggy fern]

The real problem with the press is not enough people own it 😛

[eager hawk]

I mean yeah newspaper companies can't go fully without any private company donations but I'd say most publishers have some conflicts of interests due to the funding it comes from. Going back to Rupert Murdoch and Wash Post by Amazon

[foggy fern]

AT&T, Comcast, Disney, and Murdoch own all of it in the US and Murdoch owns most of it in the UK and Australia

[faint radish]

yeah, I'm not as concerned with private company conflicts of interest as I am with governmental ones

[smoky hedge]

Murdoch owns all major media in Aus

[eager hawk]

Sooo you're for absolutely zero restrictions on media coverage and news coverage? Like what about slander and falsification?

[smoky hedge]

Well aside from the ABC, but they're funded by the government that the Murdoch press puts in power so 🤷‍♀️

[faint radish]

slander is already illegal... and not just in the press. its incredibly difficult to prove

[eager hawk]

Mind if you elaborate your logic with your thoughts on that?

[faint radish]

you have to prove that someone knowingly said false information about someone else

and that's really hard to do

[eager hawk]

So if you're going on a legal/illegal basis, the quote I pasted,
freedom of speech does not prevent punishing conduct that intimidates, harasses, or threatens another person, even if words are used. Threatening phone calls, for example, are not constitutionally protected.
^ that is law in the US.

[faint radish]

mmhmm that's all good.

[eager hawk]

Or at least not protected unde freedom of speech

[foggy fern]

I think the knowingly part only applies to public figures?

[eager hawk]

"What Piers said, if we assume US free speech laws are in place, can be considered intimidating/harassing Meghan. I think an investigation can be appropriate for this reason."

[faint radish]

I think you are right there.