politics

[round horizon]

bc now people get paid to do that

[faint radish]

People get paid to... teach? I’m not following

Eliminating private schools would be a monopolization of education

[round horizon]

paid to secure control. Just like the private prison industry, unfortunately it's been known to profit off the expense of someone else

[faint radish]

School choice however, leads to more diversity of thought.

[round horizon]

but if you provide a place for the people at the top, then there's always gonna be more people at the bottom

[faint radish]

Btw, teachers unions right now... doing the school choice movement a MASSIVE favor right now.

[round horizon]

more private schools means more people get to pay for a better education, and less get to have that choice

[dusky raft]

politicians have school choice, they send their kids to private schools.

[round horizon]

poor schools get even worse and inequality continues

[dusky raft]

bull fucking shit

[round horizon]

im not saying the right to choose is a bad one

[mystic ermine]

Well, yea, you got cash you can send people to whatever private school you want

[round horizon]

im just saying privatization has pretty awful side effects in a lot of places

[dusky raft]

school choice actually improved the local highschool in my hometown

[mystic ermine]

Issue is that many schools are basically shit and falling apart

[dusky raft]

the high school system where I used to live was utter crap

[mystic ermine]

We have school choice in the UK, but, the entire system is crap

[round horizon]

and that's cool, but not everyone has that privilege. At least with public school there's more emphasis on standards and equity

[faint radish]

Oh yes, let’s trust the government to have our kids best interests in mind. They certainly do well with police. Oh wait, police brutality... that’s right. Huh. Maybe the government isn’t the best at running smth.

[dusky raft]

they cleaned their act when only 44 students were in one class. there is meant to be an average of 160-190

[faint radish]

Have you read Harrison Bergeron? Epic story by Kurt Vonnegut

[mystic ermine]

Like, when I was picking, my options where basically a catholic school which is faaaaarrr past it's time, which, fuck being a bible basher, or two different schools of varing levels of run down, of which my mother would only let me pick one

We ended up in special measures...

police brutailty ain't even on the government

it's on the union racket

[faint radish]

Everyone has to be equal, in every way, no one faster, no one smarter, no one more attractive... is that the end goal?

Equality of outcome?

[mystic ermine]

Then again, one flop is the general with the police system is the lack of records

[dusky raft]

public unions are crap.

[round horizon]

police brutality is on a whole lot more than just the union bracket. That's a national and historical issue

[mystic ermine]

somewhat BS that somebody can be thrown out of one department and be picked up

[round horizon]

its no one person's fault

[faint radish]

Yeah, it’s fun to see people say, police unions are bad, but other public employee unions are just fine.

[mystic ermine]

People go into different jobs for the wrong reasons

The issue with unions is that they often overly protect people

[faint radish]

Yes, that is the issue.

[round horizon]

i mean, without them we'd be screwed tho

[faint radish]

No we wouldn’t

[round horizon]

nobody but the employers would have a voice

[mystic ermine]

you hear stories of schools and police departments literally unable to get rid of members of their staff

[round horizon]

and history saw what happened with that

[faint radish]

Unions were created fix an issue that no longer exists

[mystic ermine]

God, I watch a ton of crap

[faint radish]

They were a response to monopolies, and horrible labor practices

All of which are regulated today as they should be.

[round horizon]

and you think that doesnt exist?

[mystic ermine]

Stossel think his name was was interviewing a bunch of people, some school somewhere literally paid like 100-200k in the quest of getting rid of an abusive member of staff

[faint radish]

Not in the US it doesn’t, not nearly to the extent it was back when Standard Oil and US Steel ran the country.

[round horizon]

I think you're quite mistaken if you believe those issues just went up and disappeared chief

[mystic ermine]

There are still issues but they've progressed a fair chunk in general with labour regulations and all that joyous stuff

[round horizon]

and racism isnt as big as an issue as it was, but that doesn't mean we can just pretend it didnt happen

[faint radish]

We have labor laws, and anti-trust regulations.

[mystic ermine]

We're at a point where unions are more self-serving rather than serving their members

[round horizon]

im saying as long as issues exist.
and unions form to combat those issues.
then their purpose is being served

you can't ignore the purpose of a union unless the problem doesn't exist anymore

[faint radish]

I’m kinda hoping public school districts pull a Reagan and the air traffic controllers.

[mystic ermine]

Don't get me wrong, they often start out with good intent, however, these organisations generally solve their issues as much as they care to, and then basically turn into groups where making a profit in the name of looking after your employees best interests is more of a plus than actually looking after their best interests

[round horizon]

that can be said about literally any organization ever

hell, the government does the same thing doesnt it?

[faint radish]

Any bureaucracy*

[round horizon]

That doesnt make all unions invalid

[mystic ermine]

never said it did

[faint radish]

But yeah, the public teachers unions aren’t doing public school any favors right now, keeping in-person learning closed.

Just driving more parents to private schools that are fully open, and totally safe

[round horizon]

except for the fact that people are still literally dying from an uncontrollable virus

and sending kids to school would only put millions of people at risk

[faint radish]

There are always risks, but the CDC says schools are safer than just being out in public

[round horizon]

and that's not an exaggeration

[faint radish]

Fauci says to open schools,

[round horizon]

that's considering schools and kids in general keep things safe

there was a reason we all left school in the first place

its not like the issue doesnt exist anymore

[faint radish]

Yes, and tons of schools are open, and are operating safely

Just not the ones in areas with big teacher unions.

[round horizon]

i dont think we really have the knowledge to know yet

[faint radish]

Iirc the Chicago one said the effort to open schools was evidence of “white supremacy” or some bs

[round horizon]

hAH

yeah okay

[faint radish]

Yes they do, schools have been open for a while in places

Biden’s own CDC says the schools are safe. CNN had a panel where they asked a bunch of doctors if they’d send their kids to school, and every single one said Yes.

The anchor was legit surprised they said that. Was kinda funny

There are serious negative side effects to not opening schools.

Not just the reduced education, the relationships, interactions, talking face to face with peers

[round horizon]

yes im well aware

it sucks

but like, i'd rather that than risk my life yk

[faint radish]

And some of that outweighs the tiny percent of deaths.

Child suicide rates are skyrocketing

[mystic ermine]

It's one set of risks vs another set of risks, and I think that it should be up to people what set of risks they wanna face

[round horizon]

4 people were sent home for 2 weeks at my job because they got covid within the last week

[mystic ermine]

if you have a chain towards people who are vulnerable, you should defo 100% be able to keep your children home

[faint radish]

Oh for sure

Like I said, it can be done safely.

Masks, distancing, etc.

[round horizon]

if you open schools then that would force children to attend school amid the pandemic

which is no much more a choice than we currently have

you cant opt out of school in the US

[faint radish]

You can do zoom in the classroom, that’s what my younger brother has been doing, half the class present, half at home

And it switches

And that’s so much better than all at home

[round horizon]

again, systems like that only work so much as people are willing to do it

and lets face it, you're talking about kids here

you assume everyone would be following said rules

[faint radish]

Yeah, I’m gonna guess the kids want to see their friends

[round horizon]

as do I

but again, seeing my friends is less important than risking being around people that would out my safety at risk

[faint radish]

We assume all the time people would be following rules. When I drive, it’s the most dangerous thing I do. Yet I still do it

[round horizon]

because the threat is very real

[faint radish]

We always weigh risks. A life is worth a finite amount.

[round horizon]

at least we know the risks of driving tho

[faint radish]

You could lower the speed limit to 20 mph and save a ton of lives

[round horizon]

and the exact dangers and causes and how to prevent things from happening

[faint radish]

We know the dangers of this too... it’s pretty well documented

As is preventing it

[round horizon]

There's a reason we got into a global pandemic in the first place with no means of combatting it

[faint radish]

Or rather, mitigating your chances of being harmed by it.

[round horizon]

The WHO switched up what they said about it quite a lot of times over the course of the last year because they didn't in fact know as much about it as they had hoped

its a pandemic, thats what happens

[faint radish]

Which is what we do while driving as well. Well actually, we don’t know all the dangers of driving.

[round horizon]

but driving has been a thing for a longgg time

we have only had a pandemic maybe once, twice in the last couple decades

[faint radish]

A meteor could hit your car and you probably wouldn’t have expected that. It’s all about risks and weighing them and LETTING PEOPLE choose for themselves

[round horizon]

as far as near this scale

but forcing people to go to school isn't a choice chief

[faint radish]

It’s not forcing... I just said how you can get around it

Some people can be on zoom at home

[round horizon]

which is what we are doing now?

[faint radish]

Yeah, and let the people who want go to the classroom

You are forcing them NOT to go to the classroom

[round horizon]

there are a lot of things that have risks that we as a country dont let people do though

and I feel this to be a valid one

[mystic ermine]

me and machine have both said that it should be viable and much desirable if/where/when schools re-open, it should be up to the children and parents as to if they go back in

We know that covid is bad, but, we also know that sitting around in the same building all day with practically 0 contact is basically gonna take years of dealing with the consequences

[round horizon]

just as much as its illegal to be a prositute or do drugs or other things that would very much have the risk of imposing a threat on others and themselves, i think allowing people to make the choice to go into an environment where the virus is largely likely to spread further, is also a choice people shouldnt be allowed to make on their own yet

until hospitals have more vacancies, millions stop getting infected, and more people get vaccinated, I dont think that choice is realistic yet

people dont know enough on their own

to have the authority to make that choice

imo

[mystic ermine]

if all the measures that are being forced upon us are enough to stop the spread, they should be enough to reasonably stop the spread in schools

[faint radish]

What a disgusting attitude to have frankly.

Saying people are too dumb to be able to protect themselves

[mystic ermine]

I also believe that people have the capacity to determine the risks involved on both sides of the issue and make the correct decisions for them and their families

[round horizon]

i said people dont have the authority to make the decision yet

[faint radish]

So let’s have the big mommy government come in and save us

[mystic ermine]

God, I love my big mommy government

[round horizon]

if doctors and professionals still argue over it, how the heck am I to beleive someone that knows next to nothing would either

[mystic ermine]

There only about 2 weeks late on literally every call

[round horizon]

the measures we have taken so far have not effectively stopped the spread

[faint radish]

Because FREEDOM. That’s why.

[mystic ermine]

doctors and professionals are just trying to save their own asses

[faint radish]

We have the right to make BAD CHOICES.

And suffer the consequences of them

[round horizon]

but only if it doesnt impede on the health of others

[faint radish]

But that factors into your choice

[round horizon]

allowing people to make the choice to potentially continue the spread would be a health risk to others

[mystic ermine]

So, forcing people to stay locked up in their houses doesn't work...

[round horizon]

not if they dont do it, no

[faint radish]

When I drive, I don’t just consider my driving skills, I consider other people’s

[mystic ermine]

You can't not leave the house

[round horizon]

just bc you tell people to stay at home doesnt automatically mean people havent been partying

[faint radish]

When I go outside, I don’t just look at my behavior I look at others and adjust my choices accordingly

[mystic ermine]

if we could all barricade ourselves in for a month, this entire thing would pass

The thing is that we live in the real world where people need to go out to work, we live as creatures which need socialisation for our own mental and physical health

We've determined that the measures don't work in the real world, we should take measures to try to protect those who are vulnerable as reasonably possible, but, we're literally a year into this, the mental health effects on even young as all heck children are already coming to the spotlight

[faint radish]

Freedom was never about always making good choices, it’s about assuming that someone else wouldnt make a better choice for you.

That’s paraphrasing a quote, but I really like it.

[round horizon]

fuck.
antivaxxers are about to suck a whole lot more, i just realized

[faint radish]

The default, should be no, you don’t know what’s best for me. You don’t know me, or who I am, or how I live my life.

[mystic ermine]

I'm still coin flipping as to if I wanna have the vaccine

[round horizon]

yeah i dont know either

i dont know enough

but I do know vaccines have done their job before

so idk

[faint radish]

I, by default, know what is best for me, and I can choose to listen to experts (usually a good thing) or I can choose not to.

[round horizon]

that falls apart when it comes to things like vaccines tho

[faint radish]

But you don’t get to make that choice for me, while knowing nothing about me.

[mystic ermine]

having it for the sake of having it would be great, but, before covid hit, I was going through the doctors with the leaning towards a CFS/ME diagnosis, so, am not sure I wanna throw something which messes with the immune system into my body just yet

[round horizon]

you cant assume you know enough to not take a vaccine

i mean you could but itd be stupid

people like that exist too and I hate it

not the people but ignorance in general

Just sucks people dont understand

I think there are at least some cases when we should allow others to make the proper choice for us

[mystic ermine]

last time I had an episode I was literally unable to even make a cup of tea for like 2 months as my brain was literally mush

[faint radish]

Oh there are for sure. Which is why I said “by default”

[mystic ermine]

another 2 months of that and I'll be under my local bridge

[round horizon]

oops didnt see your previous comment

[faint radish]

Children for instance

[round horizon]

I also wanna add that I dont apply my previous statements to the current vaccine

I really dont know enough about it

[faint radish]

A 3 year old, doesn’t know what’s best for them all the time

Or even a 15 year old. And sometimes a 25 year old, but we have to draw a line somewhere it seems.

At some point you become responsible for yourself. Idk of 18 is the best year for that, it’s clearly not a one-size-fits-all thing

Probably some 13 year olds that could be totally self-sufficient

And then you got your 33 year olds living in the basement

But kinda off topic.

I don’t think you can require a vaccine in the US BUT, I think health insurance can charge you a ton more if you don’t have it, and I think employers can require it.

[round horizon]

that's true

US health system is p wack

Im fortunate enough to not have to deal with a lot of it but man

i feel bad nothings changed ab it

and yeah, the power to do that would be an issue

[faint radish]

Well the insurance cost is based on risk really, you are at a higher risk if you don’t get it, so you are a bigger liability to them, so they charge you more

Just like bad drivers have higher auto insurance

[round horizon]

or young people

[faint radish]

Yeah

[round horizon]

i think

i think the fact of the matter is covid sucks

and nobody is sure what to do ab it

and this whole thing sucks

[near glen]

You guys have no idea how insane insurance tariff calculation is

[round horizon]

for everyone

i rlly dont

do share

[faint radish]

Idk what an insurance tariff is

[mystic ermine]

hospitals and drug companies already provide massive ass discounts to insurance companies

[round horizon]

tax

[near glen]

These ppl are insane that do all the number crunching

[faint radish]

I know what those words mean separately but not together

[near glen]

Insurance policy I guess

[faint radish]

Oh ok

[near glen]

Premium?

Idk

[round horizon]

premiums and limits

[near glen]

Whatever you gotta pay for the insurance

[mystic ermine]

tariff?

[round horizon]

yeah

[faint radish]

Never heard it called that, but probably from ze Germans

[mystic ermine]

premiums are basically what you pay the insurance company to pay out, even if you're already with them, iirc

[near glen]

It's highly complicated and gets adjusted all the time

[round horizon]

the english language is pretty broken if you ask me

[near glen]

I think car is one of the easier ones compared to health

[round horizon]

or diverse, whatever you wanna call it

[near glen]

That's like peak insanity

[faint radish]

Yes it is. The letter Q should be removed completely

[round horizon]

im 18 and I gotta learn all that stuff soon

bc i know nothing

[faint radish]

No purpose to the letter Q

[round horizon]

Quiet

see? useful

[mystic ermine]

Basically, just by a 20 inch dildo and slip on it

[round horizon]

LMAO

[faint radish]

Kwiet

[mystic ermine]

and that's basically every part of adulting

[faint radish]

Kwick

Irack

[round horizon]

that feeels

that makes me feel uncomforable lol

kueue

kuarter

[mystic ermine]

Can we not have language discussions around mini

[round horizon]

hm

[faint radish]

Yeah, can replace with a K or KW in most situations

[round horizon]

mini?

[mystic ermine]

especially ones which could be debated that the language needs replacing

We all know how that one went

[round horizon]

english is just a bit broken that's all, no harm tho

[faint radish]

German is weird. You just keep making longer and longer words

[round horizon]

if you speak english at least

[round horizon]

example?

[mystic ermine]

I thought that the trick was just to stop using spaces in the language

[round horizon]

hahah

[mystic ermine]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22762040#:~:text=The German language has lost,state of Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania.

[round horizon]

sucks the only german words I know are whatever i learned in high school about wwii

[faint radish]

rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz

[round horizon]

and that's the sad truth

[round horizon]

bless you

[faint radish]

That means “the law for the delegation of monitoring beef labeling”

[round horizon]

oh wow

[faint radish]

Like, why is that one word

[round horizon]

so its literally just a regular word

all the super long english words are like, medical or chemical terms

[faint radish]

Yeah, the longest word is like 660,000 characters long

[mystic ermine]

It's like, the official name for some form of law or something

[round horizon]

lol

[mystic ermine]

`German is famous - or notorious - for making compound words, often to describe something legal or scientific.

They are known in Germany as "tapeworm" words.`

[round horizon]

i mean theres always pneumonoultramicroscopicsilliavolcanoiosis

[faint radish]

Oh sorry it’s “189,819”

That many letters

[round horizon]

like that helps lmao

[faint radish]

Way off

The longest non-technical, non-coined word is antidisestablishmentarianism

[round horizon]

hahah

nice

I'd like to see that in a speech

[faint radish]

Was said in the U.K. iirc

[round horizon]

itd be a power move

[faint radish]

You are anti the dis-establishment

[round horizon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHxO0UdpoxM

[faint radish]

Yeah, classic one

[round horizon]

dude kills it

[faint radish]

Wales smh... amirite cat?

That is in Wales right?

Yes

[mystic ermine]

ofc it's in wales

[foggy fern]

Wow, you can't make this shit up, Marjorie Taylor Greene is a member of the education committee

Education clearly failed her and she now she gets to try to make it fail everyone else too 😛

[pure jetty]

thank god they are actively banning hate speech so another hitler wont happen 🙂
same logic path as stop talking about the holocaust so it doesn't happen again

[near glen]

well, you are allowed to talk about the holocaust, in fact, lying and staying that it didnt happen or wasnt that bad is a crime here

[pure jetty]

my take will always remain constant on this

[blazing junco]

No, not really. Not banning hate speech leads to people knowing other people who share the same hateful values.

[pure jetty]

any country that allows limits on speech will always go tits up

[near glen]

limitless speech doesnt exist

its a myth

typo, lol

[pure jetty]

banning speech only works if you can trust your leaders will always hold your values

[near glen]

well, we elect our leaders, no

and our values are in our consitution

that you cant just change

[pure jetty]

all it takes is one to flip in office

and I'd argue the US has virtually limitless speech

[near glen]

no it isnt

[torn wadi]

Aka. you can't trust anyone.

[near glen]

its not enough that somebody in office flips

no single person or party has that much power

[pure jetty]

what does your constitution define hate speech as

like verbatim

[near glen]

it doesnt define hate speech

it defines our values

it says that your right of free speech ends where you start hurting the rights of others

[pure jetty]

all it takes is judges being corrupted to interpret that differently

even worse

[near glen]

then you got the next higher up judge

[pure jetty]

and if that one gets corrupted?

[near glen]

the next higher

[pure jetty]

endless cycle

[near glen]

and the highest is a group of judges

[torn wadi]

And then 10 years pass.

[blazing junco]

I think what Roy is talking about is something like supreme court judges being corrupted.

[pure jetty]

yes

[blazing junco]

I reckon that's also the highest court in Germany?

[near glen]

our "supreme court" works way different

for starters, ppl arent there for life so its not political like it is in the US

[blazing junco]

that's not really the point

the point is they could get corrupted

then what?

[torn wadi]

We are talking about Germany here after all.

[pure jetty]

the point is when those judges stop agreeing with the majority the system falls apart

[torn wadi]

Unlike Balkan, they would wipe out more than just kebab.

[pure jetty]

The reason why US speech laws are the best in the world is because it's not even legally possible for something like that to happen

[near glen]

well yes, if all judges stop agreeing with the ppl every system falls apart, lol

[pure jetty]

that's a problem?

[blazing junco]

LOL ok that's terrible but also a little funny

[pure jetty]

hatespeech is something you solve by deplatforming and shit

stop talking to shitty people

[near glen]

hatespeech is something you solve by preventing it and prosecuting it

works pretty good for us

[pure jetty]

for now and barely

[torn wadi]

We all know It's true.
It took less than 24 hours for a total breakdown of communications between Israel and Kosovo.

[near glen]

wdym barely?

[blazing junco]

The partnership between Israel and Kosovo wasn't something anyone in Kosovo wanted.

Our current government is one put in place by somebody who was arrested at the time it was put in place, because there weren't security measures when the previous one was overthrown.

Which is why we're going into elections again.

[pure jetty]

you don't solve hate speech by banning it, if you ban it you're feeding into their conception that the system is rigged against them which brings more hate speech

Once someone morally bad gets to judge what hatespeech is, the opposition becomes hatespeech

[near glen]

oh sorry, you clearly solve hate speech by embracing it like trump did, that went well

[pure jetty]

?????????????

at least people's voice's aren't silenced

[torn wadi]

Trump just forced that upon Kosovo, to get Israel it's first Muslim embassy.

[pure jetty]

that's the price you pay

you need to hear offensive stuff sometimes

that's the real world

you're not forced to engage with those people

[blazing junco]

It sucks.

[pure jetty]

banning offensive things never works in the long run

[blazing junco]

He literally forced it.

[near glen]

I am trying to find numbers, you are most likely overestimating how many ppl get fined here

[blazing junco]

And you can't really not sign a document in front of a superpower's president as a third world nation.

[pure jetty]

im not talking about now

the point is what laws limiting speech can cause

[blazing junco]

Vucic and Hoti looked like they shat themselves there lol

[torn wadi]

That Doc was also weird AF. Just random stuff "Trump" wanted to force upon Balkans.

Vucić brate.

[blazing junco]

And he ignorantly said he solved all the issues kek

[near glen]

well, not limiting causes issues too

hatespeech kills

because speech is followed by action

[torn wadi]

Just don't come to Slovenia just yet. We have a DIY civil war going on.

[blazing junco]

Yikes.

[torn wadi]

We need a new government, without the old Yugo people.

[blazing junco]

True.

We also need a new government without war veterans.

[near glen]

go elect one

[torn wadi]

Like, all of our money goes to retired people, so they just vote for the same people over and over again.

[blazing junco]

@near glen that's the plan.

[torn wadi]

It's epic.

You can't.

[blazing junco]

Except they have their hands in every part of our government.

[torn wadi]

https://posili.me/i/2021-02-03_19-07-38.png

All you need to say: 2€ more to your retirement if you vote for me.

[blazing junco]

So here's the issue, the top candidate most of the country wants to vote for has been barred from actually trying out for prime minister. It's a bunch of legal voodoo that they've spun up(there's clear violations of court proceedings but as I said, this corruption shit goes deep, like, supreme court deep).

[torn wadi]

DONE. Instant elected.

[blazing junco]

And also foreign powers putting people in rushing the dialogue between Kosovo and Serbia to score political points in their own nations(see: US)

[torn wadi]

Serbia is going to get eaten up by China anyway.

[blazing junco]

Apparently solving problems isn't as easy as "well just give them this part of the land where your ethnicity doesn't live, and we'll give you some part of the land where your ethnicity does!"

I fear the entire balkans will.

There's going to be a massive displacement of population in the next few decades, and the Chinese will move in.

[torn wadi]

Serbia is just the front.

[near glen]

old ppl dum is a dying problem luckly

[vocal holly]

ayo serbia is cool 😎

[blazing junco]

No it isn't. Not in the balkans.

[near glen]

my parents generation is much smarter

[blazing junco]

There's still hate from younger generations.

There's a lot of conditioning to "hate the other side" here.

It's not going to be solved anytime soon.

[torn wadi]

"Oh you don't need that, we didn't have this and this and that back in the day".

OH IT CAN ONLY GET BETTER, WE HAD IT WORSE.

[vocal holly]

hello albanian person

[torn wadi]

No shut you ass, stop electing the same people for 20 YEARS.

[blazing junco]

helo

it's literally the same thing here

[torn wadi]

All of Balkan is the same.

[blazing junco]

yeah

[vocal holly]

my friend was in albania and he mentioned how nice people you are

[blazing junco]

we try to be

[vocal holly]

kosovo ppl are different tho

[blazing junco]

kosovo people are objectively better than albanians

kek

less temperamental than albanians

[vocal holly]

maybe their cousins in germany that send them money lmao

[blazing junco]

oh those guys tend to stay in circles where albanians stay in so

[torn wadi]

Double taxes life.

[blazing junco]

they can get dangerous

but kosovo's population in general is very tame

[vocal holly]

what

[blazing junco]

well except for like one city that's been running the country for 20 years, and it ain't the capital either

these war veterans run on campaigns like they're mercenaries

"look we fought for your country YOU HAVE TO VOTE FOR US"

it sux

[torn wadi]

INB4 locked up by the EU.

[blazing junco]

[torn wadi]

One last drink before the court.

[blazing junco]

[torn wadi]

Need to go to Albania to get that VOLVO 240.

[blazing junco]

i actually watched that happen

[torn wadi]

I think we all did.

At least people from the cursed Slav lands.

[blazing junco]

i'd be lying if i said i didn't feel a little happy when that happened

[faint radish]

That isn’t the purpose of judges in the US. It’s not a democracy. Judges are not supposed to “represent the people” they are supposed to interpret the law and constitution without care to what most people might think.

The legislature is supposed to be the ones caring what people think about, and pass legislation accordingly.

I could care less if a court handed down an opinion 99% of the country disagreed with

You “might” be able to find a majority that would support a “you can’t hurt my feelings” law since the free speech culture is changing in the US, but a court would laugh in your face if you tried to defend it when someone challenged it the millisecond it took effect.

[shut vine]

Has a decent dive into the AWS/Parlar thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkiZKk4_-lA

[foggy fern]

Law of Headlines says the answer is no and the video is clickbait 😛

The judge was hinting pretty heavily they thought Parler was full of shit when denying the TRO but were willing to go to trial to let them try to convince otherwise

[smoky hedge]

Or it's made by some alt right person who's making wild claims to rile people up 😛

[shut vine]

He actually quotes and analyzes the individual motions.

[shut vine]

Most of the videos I saw in his recent history looked more critical of right politicians than left. So you're probably completely wrong.

Maybe look at the content of the video rather than using prejudicial views.

[smoky hedge]

I wasn't really commenting on that video itself

I've just seen a lot of the video that I described

[shut vine]

Yeah makes sense.

[smoky hedge]

Was more a response to what Amaranth said, rather than the video

[faint radish]

btw, Bezos finally saved up enough for retirement it seems 😝

[smoky hedge]

He can now afford a summer home in geosynchronous orbit with Hawaii 🙂

[valid falcon]

That is a nice place

[faint radish]

nah, earth is way too tiny at geosync/ orbit

like 26,000 miles away

You'd totally want to be in a sun-synchronous orbit

[foggy fern]

TIL someone paid to have a plane fly a banner over Robinhood's offices with the message "SUCK MY NUTS ROBINHOOD"

[foggy fern]

Liz Cheney will keep her spot as third ranking House Republican after a 145-61 secret ballot vote in the conference

[foggy fern]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/desantis-fines-big-tech-political-candidates

Alternate Title: DeSantis proposes losing hundreds of jobs in Florida

[foggy fern]

Wow I knew Biden was involved in some real garbage but this one... https://www.congress.gov/bill/98th-congress/senate-bill/948

[dusky raft]

two sides of the same coin

the shit trump was accused of is what biden was doing for years.

[foggy fern]

https://apnews.com/article/d00c46241478d39db3996a36f5cbf91e

[pure jetty]

to be fair people can change 🙂

also thank god that girl is off all committees

idk how they fuck she got elected

[foggy fern]

She won the primary before people realized how trash she was, it's a deep red district, and her Democrat opponent had to move out of the district (and state) before the election anyway

[foggy fern]

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/02/parler-financial-backers-oust-founder-and-ceo-matze-from-company/

[pure jetty]

[weary obsidian]

what's the tldr there? quick glance looks like "you forfeit anything obtained with illegal means" ?

which im not seeing problem with

[mystic ermine]

it's a guilty until proven innocent arrangement

[weary obsidian]

how? i dont see that, it reads as the typical raid a criminals house and confiscate the dufflebags filled with thousands of dollars as part of the crime scenario. thats standard process and dont see how thats an issue

Why would you want to let criminals keep their illegal funds until they are convicted to then use it for illicit means

unless im missing some line deep into it

[mystic ermine]

there's a few dozen stories if you google, I'm feeling too ill to proof read stuff, but, first story I came across basically a guy rented a car to drive somewhere to buy a car he really wanted, cash in hand type deal; guy got pulled over, and basically after hours of "where's the drugs", the police took the cash and pulled off, because it's basically on the guy to prove that there is no drugs and no intent to go buy drugs with that cash

[glossy sandal]

Feels like that's an extremely they said/I said argument

[weary obsidian]

that sounds like police corruption and nothing to do with this law,

They need a warrant for random shit like that

[foggy fern]

Sure they but they don't to convict you

They take your shit and then you have to prove you didn't get it via illegal means or use it for illegal activity in a special court

The default is your property is guilty and they're keeping it

If they let you have it back they have to buy less military toys that year so...

https://fee.org/articles/how-a-young-joe-biden-became-the-architect-of-the-governments-asset-forfeiture-program/

In addition to a slew of new powers for prosecutors, the burden of proof for asset seizure was lowered once again (agents had to only believe that what they were seizing was equal in value to money believed to have been purchased from drug sales). More significantly, the bill started the “equitable sharing” program that allowed local and state law enforcement to retain up to 80 percent of the assets seized.

The key thing is the bit where the cops get to keep your shit

Anything they steal from you goes in to their budget

Now they're heavily incentivized to steal as much as they can get away with

[foggy fern]

Republicans lost an election? Time to make sure fewer people vote next time! https://www.gpb.org/news/2021/02/02/georgia-senate-republicans-unveil-bills-make-voting-harder

So Biden's relief bill made it through the Senate but they removed the $15/hr minimum wage from it first

[brisk cradle]

pretty fucked up https://twitter.com/davidsirota/status/1357763815228678149

David Sirota (@davidsirota)

Tired: Corporations buying legislation

Wired: Corporations buying government officials

Inspired: Corporations buying policy that lets them literally become governments

https://t.co/magfUCvOJv

Likes

161

Twitter · Feb 5, 2021, 6:51 PM

[brisk cradle]

If you can't win democratically, cheat.

Remember we still have the fucked up system where the legislators get to choose their voters.

[brisk cradle]

But at least you can own big tech and the libs at the same time! Why not?!?

[foggy fern]

My solution to social media is generally to make it not exist anymore but this is just posturing that will at most make those companies shut down in the state

[brisk cradle]

I agree, if this isn't bluster it'll simply be easier for Facebook and Twitter to just threaten DeSantis that they'll block all access to their services for Floridians. That'd create enough outrage for him to yank the idea from consideration.

Though David Sirota should be reminded that Florida already pioneered corporations-as-government, specifically Disney has done it in the Orlando area.

[foggy fern]

Hell the case everyone tries to cite to claim Facebook and Twitter are public squares is about a corporation running their own town government

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsh_v._Alabama

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTCen9-RELM

[shut vine]

Forfeiture laws basically allow a closed hearing where a persons assets can be ceased when they are SUSPECTED of wrongdoing without necessarily charging the person with anything. The person has no chance to defend themselves BEFORE the assets are ceased, and then has to prove the goods were obtained legally.

[brisk cradle]

Asset forfeiture is arbitrary and capricious. It should be abolished. I'm outta here.

[shut vine]

Police departments have time and time again used these laws to get things for themselves.

Which is completely legal, thus a huge incentive to use and abuse the law.

[mystic ermine]

To my understanding, the majority of cases where that stuff happens is fine, the issue is when some innocent person gets fucked by it, there's no real means for them to save themselves, and they've basically gotta prove their innocence, which is pretty damned hard when it's a guilty until proven innocent mechanism

[shut vine]

Yeah, the law itself is flawed because of that.

There is a huge incentive to abuse it, and since they don't ever have to charge the person that's their only recourse, and they have to pay to do it obviously.

I can understand them having laws for people convicted of crimes with huge financial elements, or for when they can prove the assets were obtained illegally.

[foggy fern]

pro-tip: never carry more than $500 when in a car

[near glen]

Why?

[foggy fern]

If you do and get searched they'll take it saying you must be going to buy drugs or just sold drugs

[mystic ermine]

police: that's sus

[foggy fern]

And now they police have $500 and you have $0 and you aren't getting it back

They don't even have to arrest you

[near glen]

They have to give it back if they can't prove shit after a while

At least here

[mystic ermine]

not in the US is the issue

[foggy fern]

They can just take it and let you drive away without a ticket or a charge of any kind

[shut vine]

Not in USA, partially thanks to Joe.

[near glen]

I bet they don't even document it and buy drugs themselves 😂

[foggy fern]

If they seize stuff they have to deal with auctions and getting pennies on the dollar for it so they only do that for houses and fancy cars and such

But cash? They'll grab that with even the flimsiest excuse

[mystic ermine]

I mean, aikar is correct on it being an aspect of corrupt policing, but, it's these laws which allows for them to do it

[shut vine]

The law itself is fundamentally wrong due to the fact they don't need any evidence.

[foggy fern]

They used to only do it to mobsters and major smugglers and cartel folks but Biden got the government to do a study showing how they could be using it more and getting so much from it (so looking at it as a funding source instead of a deterrent) and then sponsored a law that made it even easier to do it

[shut vine]

It allows the government to effectively cease everything you own until you can't fight back.

[foggy fern]

They won't be able to just walk up to your door and take your house, that would be too blatant

The car thing is because you could be in the process of buying or selling drugs

If you get busted with weed in your house though they could take it

[shut vine]

It has been used to do that before if my memory serves me correctly.

[foggy fern]

Or if someone gets busted with weed and says he bought it at your house

[shut vine]

And no police officer has ever planted weed.

Yeah, that's the issue.

They just need reasonable cause for suspicion. If you're suspected of being a drug kingpin they can just start ceasing assets that could be related.

[foggy fern]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptArWUD8xHM

[shut vine]

So CDA section 230 has effectively been nullified against social media networks in cases of defamation. In a case brought to a Canadian court by the Clinton camp against Twitter it has been ruled that in cases of defamation that if the case is brought to the court there then they have jurisdiction.

Twitter motioned for a venue change to a Californian court for obvious reasons, and were completely rejected.

[pure jetty]

I don't think that's correct

Courts cannot nullify laws (unless unconstitution which 230 isn't)

And idk why you're bringing up Canada for a US law

[foggy fern]

Why would 230 even apply in Canada?

Also 230 wasn't even really making new law, btw, it was just clarifying the way everyone assumed the law already worked

People were shocked when a court said otherwise so they tacked 230 on to a law that has since been otherwise dismissed as unconstitutional

Section 230 has frequently been referred to as a key law that has allowed the Internet to flourish, and has been called "the twenty-six words that created the Internet".

Not really related, just thought that was a nice quote

[stiff terrace]

AOC is pretty boss

I'm a fan

[shy gulch]

not to get too political but chocolate milk

[shut vine]

Both the plaintiff and the defendant were American. The reason it's effectively nullified is because Canada's court system is willing to deal with defamation cases that originate in any country when it comes to social media networks.

Thus if a plaintiff just takes their case to Canada, they can completely avoid CDA Sec 230 since Canada is obviously not going to enforce American law.

Additionally Canada has no such protections for social media networks.

[shut vine]

see above

[foggy fern]

Sounds like Canada is about to get threatened with no social media

[pure jetty]

Why would a Canadian court take a case between two US entities

I have no idea about anything related to Canadian law but that seems kind of weird

But I highly doubt double Jeopardy would apply on US soil for a Canadian case

So I don't see where it's being "effectively nullified"

[foggy fern]

I'm more curious on how Canada is going to enforce that ruling

[pure jetty]

Canadian law cannot apply to me for example someone was never been to Canada

Now if we're talking Canada applying their laws to a United States company just because they have an office in Canada that would be interesting to see who blinks first

I doubt it will be the tech platform

[foggy fern]

If Facebook's choices are be liable for everything people post or not allow people in Canada to post it's obvious what way that'll go

[pure jetty]

Just like how Google's working out in Australia yeah

[foggy fern]

Google last month threatened to pull its search engine from Australia where it has a staggering 94.5% market share.

https://twitter.com/brianstelter/status/1357835658799235074

Brian Stelter (@brianstelter)

Lou Dobbs, by far the highest-rated host on Fox Business, has just been canned by the network.

I can't underscore how rare this is. Ratings are normally a shield. Fox Biz viewership is low overall, but Dobbs was the most popular guy. Yet he's cancelled.

https://t.co/FDIBk1IkBN

Retweets

1012

Likes

3977

Twitter · Feb 5, 2021, 11:37 PM

Either Fox Business is about to go away entirely or they decided he wasn't worth the lawsuits

[tough cedar]

what did he do?

[earnest prairie]

Not to get political but strawberry milk

[foggy fern]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/04/business/media/smartmatic-fox-news-lawsuit.html

[earnest prairie]

Imagine seeing that headline in 2015 lmao

[tough cedar]

oh ok

yea i saw smartmatic was suing for 2.7 bil but didn't look into it that much

[foggy fern]

He was also named on the lawsuit from Dominion last month, iirc

[valid falcon]

I am so glad Fox has canned dobbs.

[shut vine]

Because defamation statements made on Twitter make it to a global stage. There is precedent there for defamation cases. Thus far two courts have sided the same way for similar cases, allegedly.

[pure jetty]

One of the parties would need to be a Canadian citizen

[shut vine]

Not according to Canada.

[pure jetty]

Can you link me to the case you're talking about please

[shut vine]

Also you mean the plaintiff would need to be, since Twitter is the defendant.

[pure jetty]

Right

Twitter is already a Canadian company so

And I mean that by having an office in Canada

[shut vine]

Isn't it a Californian company?

[pure jetty]

Yeah it's definitely United States company but it has Canadian offices

I would assume anyway

Otherwise there's absolutely no way this could work in any capacity because they would have no jurisdiction

[shut vine]

I can't find the original court filings/rulings, they seem to have been deleted: https://www.bccourts.ca/jdb-txt/sc/21/00/2021BCSC0054.htm

They were there yesterday. Basically the reading of it suggested that they do have jurisdiction when the person's reputation is a factor in British Columbia.

[pure jetty]

I don't know what they think they can do in terms of ramifications in that matter

Regardless they cannot nullify a United States law

[shut vine]

I never said it nullified it.

[pure jetty]

You said effectively nullified it

[shut vine]

Yeah, it effectively nullifies it. If Canada is willing to try a case that would get thrown out in a US court, that effectively removes the protections a social media company would enjoy under CDA 230.

Even if said company is American.

[pure jetty]

hmm looked it over

[shut vine]

Wait it loaded for you?

[pure jetty]

nah i just found a bunch of coverage on it

[shut vine]

It told me it no longer existed

[pure jetty]

i just googled the case number

Frank Giustra, the plaintiff, is Canadian

so that explains how he was able to bring the case in the first place

[shut vine]

Yeah, the ruling itself specifically said his nationality wasn't material to the case

[pure jetty]

Now i was under the impression that USMCA forced Canada and Mexico into complying with CDA 230 like laws

[shut vine]

The only thing that was material was that his reputation in Canada was affected

That would remain to be seen once the case finally makes it to trial, the ruling itself was only in relation to if Canada can try the case

[pure jetty]

oh this was all twitter making a motion to dismiss the case?

interesting

[shut vine]

Yeah, they were trying to get the venue changed to California

Effectively a dismissal in the Canadian system

[pure jetty]

i see

idk how they handle dismissals there but I doubt this will actually go though

if I'm right about USMCA having the Section 230 shit in it

unless they're trying to make the argument that twitter is outside of 230's safe harbors?

[shut vine]

Yeah I'm not sure, I don't know if CDA was part of it, I'd have to read to be certain.

I'm curious why the page was deleted

Maybe that's why?

[pure jetty]

If you were attempting to open a recent judgment, then our system might still be in the process of updating the judgment document to our external servers.

[faint radish]

$DOGE ftw

[shut vine]

Yeah, it was there yesterday though which is odd

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=8e1b8444-e098-41d4-9767-a35978cb4d6b

Looks like you're right

It was one of the provisions

[foggy fern]

https://twitter.com/RzstProgramming/status/1357387722873311235

Resist Programming 🛰 (@RzstProgramming)

Marjorie Taylor Greene once brought a cardboard cutout of Trump on stage, praised him, and then began rubbing her hand on his crotch. #MarjorieTaylorGrope https://t.co/ay6RHSbgNX

Retweets

5487

Likes

8717

▶ Play video

Twitter · Feb 4, 2021, 5:57 PM

Wait so the US couldn't get rid of 230 even if we did want to?

Without pulling out of the FTA or renegotiating it

[pure jetty]

in theory yeah

two duplicate laws

[brisk cradle]

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/02/klobuchar-targets-big-tech-with-biggest-antitrust-overhaul-in-45-years/

It's better than the nth attack on Section 230 at least.

[foggy fern]

Feels more like pulling up the ladder

Seems to be aimed at blocking further growth of these companies and blocking new ones from growing that way but not at undoing the damage already done

[dusky raft]

@foggy fern there should be reforms on how businesses are structured. Considering how many tech giants let the smaller companies they own retain their own board of directors and CEOs

Effectively they make decisions based on decisions on its parent. Nevermind taxes are an interesting situation.

[foggy fern]

Huh, Meet the Press this morning suggests the Republican party is only growing its share of groups that are themselves shrinking so overall the party is dying out

Like, since 2010 they've gained with people who only have a high school education but the percentage of people who only have a high school education has shrank

Democrats have gained with women while Republicans have gained with men but women outnumber men, etc

[valid falcon]

While I did not watch the Super Bowl, I find it annoying how men online right now are complaining that a woman was referee.

[mystic ermine]

There are some pro's to male referees in male sports

Mainly in that they're all generally paid out asshats who miss calls

runs

[faint radish]

“Men online are complaining” what a ridiculous thing to say. Someone’s video of their kids first words on Twitter gets people complaining too. The internet is a horrible way to find out how people actually feel.

There are always people who complain about anything

All these articles like “Twitter erupts...”, “...drew negative reactions on Twitter”, etc. it’s such lazy journalism. You just write what the “controversy” was, and quote 5 people’s tweets and then that’s journalism? Yikes.

Not really relevant to what you said, but in the same ballpark.

[shy gulch]

Complaining about a Woman being referee should be Stone Age shit

So sad we are still struggling with basic equality in 2021

[wraith grail]

Using that example is what mm is referring to as a bad example of inequality

[faint radish]

in Somalia, 95% of girls experience genital mutilation. Now there is an example of inequality

[wraith grail]

People will complain about anything - saying "we have major inequality" on the premise that some people online are complaining is not a great one

[pure jetty]

you're going to get bigots in any society it's not something you can fix

[faint radish]

yes exactly. so instead of focusing attention on those people, look to actual real problems

[wraith grail]

Yee

We still have internet people whining about witches and that's not really a real problem and... case is easy to make

[mystic ermine]

Let's pick a non controversial topic

[pure jetty]

right

[mystic ermine]

transgenders in womens sports

[pure jetty]

brexit

[faint radish]

oh I think cat nailed it

I would get into a debate on that, but I dont wanna end up banned so...

[pure jetty]

not very interesting

[mystic ermine]

I think it's dumb

The 200(203rd?) best man in tennis beat the best woman in tennis

it's well known the effects of puberty on the body, and women in sports are already upset as they're basically being insta-smashed from first by people who in the mens groups where near the end of the charts

But, meh

brexit is more fun

[faint radish]

isnt brexit over?

[mystic ermine]

EU scepticism is basically on the rise \o/

[faint radish]

like I dont follow that news, but I thought it already happened

[mystic ermine]

Yes, buuuuut

[pure jetty]

i mean they brexited

[mystic ermine]

There's basically drama around it

[faint radish]

I know someone got their ham sandwich taken away

[mystic ermine]

UK is getting trade deals all over the place

Think we where in the talks to join the pacific trade agreement too

[pure jetty]

yeah you guys got a bunch of covid vaccines didn't you?

while the rest of the EU didn't

[faint radish]

and the EU is unhappy?

[pure jetty]

because eu want's all or nothing

[faint radish]

oh, so the UK is doing better re- trade out of the EU? or at least things are looking up?

[mystic ermine]

EU tried to trigger article 16 from the brexit agreement because their supplier in the EU basically took 3 months to purchase in the vaccines which means that the production supply issues we dealt with 3 months ago are hindering production on their side which means they're getting like sub half of what they expected, etc

EU commision fucked up and basically tried to blame it on astrazenica

Who they raided like around the days of when they threatened to trigger article 16

it's all fun

Now, I think that there is a pariament petition for NI to trigger article 16 and just fuck the EU off essentially

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/573209

EU basically apparently has a hard-on for wanting us to not succeed, especially with the number of contries which have basically said "if brexit is a success, we'll fuck off too"

[faint radish]

yeah, I mean all bureaucracies hate to lose power

[pure jetty]

EU is scared they'll lose their bargaining power

UK was one of their larger member states

[faint radish]

who is bigger? germany?

[mystic ermine]

Yea, Uk was like the 2nd largest net contributor

Yea

[faint radish]

typical Mini

[mystic ermine]

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/which-countries-are-the-biggest-boost-or-drag-on-the-eu-budget/

[faint radish]

oh gotta love the Don't know crowd in polls

Has covid made your life easier or harder
70% harder, 10% easier, 20% apparently can't make a decision about their own life situation

[mystic ermine]

I mean, stuff like the covid restrictions are like leading into pros and cons

[faint radish]

wow, poland really dragging the EU down. germany might have to go teach them a lesson 👀

[mystic ermine]

Like, I'm not spending cash to go into town, etc, buuut, am also stuck in my house, which, for me, ain't really too much of a thing, but, at the same point, I kinda miss a few humans. I used to meet up, which, like, it blows, but, not massively for me

[wraith grail]

Not again! Smh

[mystic ermine]

Poland has some pros

all the people escaping there are cheap hires

[valid falcon]

Focusing on sexism that people are exposed to every day stops the slow decline into life long sexist attitudes.

They matter so that the big issues can be discussed

[faint radish]

you'll never get to big issues then 🤷‍♂️

because you can always look at someone, and find something they did wrong according to whatever today's rules are.

and the "sexism that people are exposed to every day", which part of every day are you talking about here?

[valid falcon]

I'm really not sure what your angle is, condoning sexism out of convenience? You can't walk and chew gum at the same time?

You can do the big things and the little things.

It isn't hard.

[blazing junco]

I get what you're saying, but fuck that's a terrible analogy.

[pure jetty]

imo even talking about such a specific element of that (your example of the super bowl female coach example) only gives validation to those people

they're not a majority nor do they have institutional power over you

[shy gulch]

They are not a majority but the number of people that think that way are overwhelmingly high

Higher then you would initially expect

[shy gulch]

I dont think it is

Of course varying levels of equality exist throughout the world

But compared to the development and progress of the US, I really dont think any number of people should wine about a woman being a referee.

Then if you want to use the argument that focusing on less extreme cases of equality is slowly down the progress of these other nations and societies then blame the people bitching about a Woman being a referee not the people defending the woman.

[pure jetty]

Who fucking cares

If they don't have institutional power it doesn't matter

People are always gonna have dogshit opinions

People are just wasting brain power complaining about this

You're not going to change their mind

[shy gulch]

institutional power does not cause as much societal/political change as ideas and words do.

I dont rant on twitter about these people

I just find no issue in simply saying they are wrong

I usually end it at that unless they want to engage in discussion

[pure jetty]

yeah they're wrong sure but not even worth acknowledging outside of an institution is what I meant

literally all it does is platform them

[shy gulch]

platforming them gives the opportunity to discuss

Otherwise these people continue to spread ignorance with people easily influenced

[foggy fern]

On the other hand if you write an article about something someone with 20 twitter followers said on a post that got 2 likes you have problems

aka most of the right wing news sites that get shared on facebook 😄

[pure jetty]

there is no productive conversion formed from that

the people who already disagree with you are ape shit

there's not point in exerting your brain power with that

[foggy fern]

Now, if something is trending on facebook or twitter and you put in the effort to filter out the spam (which keeps silly things on trending all day when they'd normally only show up for a minute) and determine the consensus of the people discussing it that might be worth an article

But that's like, a whole day of work, who has time for that?

Sometimes someone will say something crazy, people will pile on attacking them for it and arguing against it, and that'll push the original hashtag up on trending making it look like that's something people support when it's the opposite

breitbart will still write an article about how everyone on twitter believes it though, if it advances their narrative

That's worse than CNN spending 20 minutes reading replies to some question they asked on twitter, at least CNN puts in some effort to showing for and against responses, even if they pick the worst ones

They're basically using twitter as a replacement for a talk radio program where listeners can call in

[pure jetty]

lmfao tru

[shut vine]

I'm a fan of the free market sorting that out. Government and big tech really should avoid handling it. People who have crazy opinions generally get ignored by the sane people, and 'nuked' by other people with crazy opinions.

[foggy fern]

https://www.npr.org/2021/02/08/965370870/1st-member-of-congress-texas-rep-ron-wright-dies-following-covid-19-diagnosis

Wright, 67, said last month he began a quarantine on Jan. 15 after coming into contact with an individual who had the virus a week earlier. He said he tested positive for the virus the following week on Jan. 21.

Hmm, I wonder why he'd suddenly come in to contact with someone a week before the 15th

I suppose it could be a coincidence but that timing...

[shut vine]

Well the virus can remain relatively asymptomatic in many people for extended periods when they're contagious. So it's likely he was considered high risk by his doctors, and they were super careful about who he met, and someone slipped through the cracks.

[foggy fern]

Yeah, perhaps when he was taking shelter while people stormed the building

A few congresspeople caught it from that

[valid falcon]

Or dear lord

[foggy fern]

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1358440762564898819

Aaron Rupar (@atrupar)

Ron Johnson absurdly floats that Nancy Pelosi is somehow responsible for a MAGA mob descending on the Capitol for a deadly insurrection https://t.co/hUi6SydEe1

Retweets

3020

Likes

10747

▶ Play video

Twitter · Feb 7, 2021, 3:41 PM

[foggy fern]

https://twitter.com/abgutman/status/1358610918880477184

Abraham Gutman🔥 (@abgutman)

Before anyone gives Tom Brady a trophy, don’t forget that the Chiefs have the right to exhaust every legal avenue to challenge the result. It would be irresponsible to congratulate the Buccaneers so early. Many many fans are upset. Wouldn’t want them to lose trust.

Retweets

20076

Likes

146217

Twitter · Feb 8, 2021, 2:57 AM

https://twitter.com/rezistasistah/status/1358766018970140676

marmeeispissed (@rezistasistah)

@abgutman I’m very upset they literally stopped the game at half time. They were clearly worried the Chiefs would get ahead. What really happened during halftime? A friend of my cousin whose friend works the hot dog stand said there were vans pulling up with points for the Bucs.

Likes

1070

Twitter · Feb 8, 2021, 1:13 PM

[brisk cradle]

Biden finally says what everyone knew was going on. Good job on not being naive... https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/537548-biden-rips-gop-for-all-of-a-sudden-showing-fiscal-restraint

[eager hawk]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/09/world/asia/japan-olympics-yoshiro-mori.html?0p19G=2103

To think this was our former prime minister... we've still got a long way to go with misogyny in japan -_-

[shy gulch]

Ironic considering how people have been saying how progressive Japan is for months

[near glen]

You can be progressive in some parts and idiots in others

It's not black and white ;)

[shy gulch]

With Men dressing more what is considered the feminine stereotype

No ofc its not black and white

Just ironic how quickly the twitter focus train changes course

I specifically remember seeing so much about how we should be more like Japan

Couple months later Japan needs to get there shit together lol

[mystic ermine]

Repubs have been bawking against the money for months, I don't see what's hypocritical when they've been screaming ree money for months unless I'm missing something

what does that 1.9 trillion cover? what about the fact that less people are getting cheques this time around?

and last I knew, $1400 + $600 doesn't make a $2000 cheque, it gives you a $1400 and a $600 cheque

[foggy fern]

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4944566/user-clip-house-impeachment-managers-opening-video

[restive seal]

Months, when they didn't care about throwing money around to the rich in tax cuts during any years they've held power. It's a consistent play by them. Spend spend spend, until democrats want money to go to those in need at which point "oh no, we don't have the money to give!"

[dusky raft]

tax cuts != giving money, its just reducing the inflow of cash

unless im missing some rich mans credit line that the federal government in general is guilty of

It also doesnt help that we give cash out to other countries like its candy

I dont see how democrats can fix this country even as they cant fix their damn states they have near monopolies in for the last 20 years.

I dont have faith in republicans, but I have even less in democrats running things.

[pure jetty]

so, your solution?

give it back to the republicans?

seems kinda dumb

[dusky raft]

I dont have faith in republicans, but I have even less in democrats running things.

[pure jetty]

right

[dusky raft]

and right now, the dems look like rabid animals waiting to kill anyone who oppose them...

[pure jetty]

how so if i may ask

what do you dislike them doing now and what do you wish they'd do

[mystic ermine]

both parties are full of self serving arse-hats who only care about their agenda's and never consider the implications of their policies too deep outside of point scoring with their parties, and often do not give a single shit about the issues they parade on

Same issue as we have in the UK, really

[dusky raft]

Considering their attitude for the last 10 some odd years, at least republicans take care of their states to some degree

[pure jetty]

what do you dislike them doing now and what do you wish they'd do

[dusky raft]

new york and other big cities are damn cesspools,

and they say they want to improve?

wut

[pure jetty]

you're giving vague statements rather than policy

[mystic ermine]

I got two easy ones

[dusky raft]

they should implement said policies on a local level

[pure jetty]

which policies

you've said none

[mystic ermine]

1. keystone pipline, of which they flipped back and forth in general of how they're gonna deal with fracking in general, etc

2. transgenders in women sports

[pure jetty]

im not really interesting in debating specific member talking points of actions not taken but rather you what wish they'd do and what you dislike that they did

[mystic ermine]

There needs to be actual discusions between parties and some intent to find common ground

[pure jetty]

fair and I agree but that's fault of both parties

[mystic ermine]

right now both parties are in essence pushed to their extremes by the other party and there is very little interest in actual unity

[pure jetty]

Zyphys was ragging on dems specifically and saying that the dems should be stripped of control so I wanted to know what the dems are doing so poorly

[mystic ermine]

That's not what he said

you're putting words in his mouth.

[pure jetty]

I dont have faith in republicans, but I have even less in democrats running things.

[foggy fern]

Have Democrats flipflopped on the keystone pipeline?

I guess maybe I didn't notice because my part of the party didn't

[mystic ermine]

"I don't have faith in" != "These guys should never have power at all!"

I mean, maybe not keystone specifically

[pure jetty]

okay fine but they're still yet to give any valid criticism

[mystic ermine]

but, biden went to one place and said they where gonna ban fracking

went to another and said that they're not gonna ban fracking

[foggy fern]

Also NY and CA have their problems but they're the best places in the country to live and are subsidizing the other states

[mystic ermine]

last I knew NY was in massive debt and which is why they wanted to tax people who moved out of state?

[foggy fern]

I guess he was vague about it so you could see it that way but the only clear statement from him I've seen is what he already did, ban expansion of fracking (on federal lands, they only thing he has direct control over)

Which he got sued over already

I guess I don't pay much attention to what he says at campaign events and such though, only what people highlight and pops up on twitter and such

I don't know if he was vague, if he was intentionally vague, if he outright lied, etc

I saw one clip where he kind of danced around it and just assumed that was how all of them were

NY can be in debt and also be a great place to live and subsidize the rest of the country

These are not opposing statements, you could say the same thing about the US

[pure jetty]

It's a hard question to answer

it's worth "lying" to some in order to get a vote and do something for the greater good

[dusky raft]

With the adoption of socialism from the democrats (though mainly a faction, but with a loud and angry screaming voice), they want to redefine how the US is and was. They want to expand areas such as green energy blindly. While I am not a strict person on green energy, we arent seeing the whole picture as its fueled by activists who want change now. The same could be said towards illegal immigration without seeing the repercussions of blindly allowing anyone and everyone in.

[pure jetty]

There are like 4 """"socialism""""" people in congress

[foggy fern]

Phew we just dived right in to the middle of a Rush Limbaugh show

[pure jetty]

you're delusional if you think there's any wide support for any heavy socialist values in the US

even the majority of the people don't support it

Bernie shows that

he lost hard in the primaries

[foggy fern]

Actually support for a number of "socialist" policies is more popular than both parties or any candidate

[pure jetty]

i would need to see polling. Support means jack shit if they don't vote for it

a la voting for a candidate which has a large amount of socialist platforms

[restive seal]

44 senators just signaled to Biden that he can go pretty wild in his final weeks

[dusky raft]

I should have put those in quotations, the democrats ran on certain socialist values, but I dont think they ever plan on implementing it without backfiring

[foggy fern]

This is arguing against the idea that socialism as a whole isn't popular but was an interesting result that came up https://www.cato.org/commentary/socialism-legitimately-popular

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/07/30/two-thirds-of-americans-favor-raising-federal-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour/

[pure jetty]

i wouldn't even consider this a socialist platform

[dusky raft]

It has been getting popular, just because the party isnt socialist in nature, they have brought in the socialist crowd

[pure jetty]

most economists feel $15 is fair with it's current roll out plan

[foggy fern]

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/29/increasing-share-of-americans-favor-a-single-government-program-to-provide-health-care-coverage/

[dusky raft]

They should smash medicaid/medicare into one system rather than keep it separate. I have in the past in this channel opposed leaving it up to the government as the sole provider of healthcare

[restive seal]

They want to expand areas such as green energy blindly. While I am not a strict person on green energy, we arent seeing the whole picture as its fueled by activists who want change now.

We largely ignored the environment for so long we're at the point where we need significant and prompt corrections to our trajectory to protect the planet for ourselves let alone our children and grandchildren.

[foggy fern]

I can't even think of any other "socialist" issues that have support from more than 1 or 2 politicians

[dusky raft]

and we continue to ignore the environment that isnt in our nation

[foggy fern]

Although a recent study suggests the Green New Deal was insufficiently ambitious and from an economic perspective would be a massive win

[restive seal]

public libraries! 😄

[foggy fern]

Well, it wasn't even looking at the green new deal but that's more or less what the result suggests

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/01/new-study-a-zero-emissions-us-is-now-pretty-cheap/

[dusky raft]

considering we need to mine out resources and right now, recycling isnt there for solar/wind

[restive seal]

Are you suggesting the wild idea that investment into new industries to bring out technological and economic change would be good? Gasp.

[dusky raft]

I'm more in favor of nuclear, its got a lower footprint both in carbon and in land usage, and we can either shoot depleted material into space or dig it deep underground

[foggy fern]

One fun suggestion from the study is that we'd be better off not trying to capture CO2 from the few traditional plants we'd have and instead capture it later to turn in to gas for vehicles were electrical isn't practical

[dusky raft]

though I wouldnt mind geothermal

[foggy fern]

Nuclear is not a long term energy source, we probably have more oil

[dusky raft]

actually, geothermal under the ocean may be a decent idea.

[foggy fern]

Unless someone figures out fusion, thorium, or we're willing to accept breeder reactors the known uranium supply would only support about 200 years at current global energy usage

Alternatively new (as in, we don't even know what it would be) extraction technology or being willing to pay a lot more for power would expand the supply of uranium we could use

[dusky raft]

sadly big green has decided to go with solar/wind over researching more efficient and material saving nuclear

because big reactor go boom

[mystic ermine]

That sounds like 200 years of clean energy, which can also be reasonably done well by the small scale reactors coming to market soon™

[foggy fern]

And by soon you mean the first one might be done by 2050?

[dusky raft]

By that time, we could have gotten materials elsewhere

or find a new element to split

[mystic ermine]

NuScale will apparently be ready for commercial operation by 2027

[dusky raft]

ye, lets pull a fallout and shove reactors into cars

[foggy fern]

Nuclear also doesn't scale with demand, it runs at a flat rate

[mystic ermine]

both of the green routes have issues in the long run which we don't have a solution which is scaled up properly

[foggy fern]

So you'd need to build out for peak usage and then give away the power the rest of the time or dump it in to the ground

[mystic ermine]

We've had such a concept for years on grids around the world

[foggy fern]

Which makes it not economical

[mystic ermine]

you use it to power your base load

there is ofc gonna be some whole fun around how we scale everything around, but, it seems a better "oh crap, we don't have enough" than firing up a gas/coal plant

[foggy fern]

If nuclear is your base load and you still need natural gas then you have to look at what else can be that base load

And then nuclear loses anyway

[mystic ermine]

how would you still need nuclear if we have batteries wind and solar on the side too?

[dusky raft]

your going to need a backup anyways if solar/wind route is used

[mystic ermine]

I mean, still need natural gas

[dusky raft]

and lithium is not friendly towards organic material

[foggy fern]

Nuclear and renewable+storage have similar issues as far as making a stable grid

So you have to compare them against each other because they basically slot in to the same position

And when you compare them to each other nuclear loses on almost every metric

[mystic ermine]

last I knew we alreay had the tech to deal with 100% renewable + storage

[foggy fern]

Right, we already know how to make renewables work

Now we're doing studies on the most efficient of the several ways we can do it

Nuclear we don't even know how it would work long term 😛

But short term when you look at costs, regulations, etc nuclear loses

Short term as in like 20 years

[mystic ermine]

part of that is why I hope that the smaller reactors take off sooner than hoped, but, such dreams ;-;

[foggy fern]

If we had an all nuclear grid right now we'd be in a better position but I'd still be arguing for gradual replacement with renewables

[mystic ermine]

We've been tryna get some nukes built in the UK, but, brexit, and protesters, and, sigh

[foggy fern]

At this point when you combine the time it would take to get approval and get it built you'd be bring new nuclear online right about when we hope to be on a net negative emissions grid run mostly by renewables

So building new ones doesn't make sense unless you can shit one out in less than a decade

[mystic ermine]

I think at the very least if it wasn't for all the general BS around then, nuclear would serve as a good intermediary step to provide a solution on the grid, but, with how long it takes to get approval and such, ouch

[foggy fern]

Ok, it doesn't really take 30 years to build a new one but iirc it's like half that even if everything goes smoothly

[mystic ermine]

pretty sure it's not even supposed to take 1/2 of that, it's just "smoothly" for reactors is generally more meaning "excessively smoothly" and approval is reaaaaallly fun

[foggy fern]

Ah, I was a bit off still, it was actually more like 10 years

[mystic ermine]

https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profiles/countries-t-z/united-kingdom.aspx#:~:text=The UK generates about 20,reactor designs and their siting.

[foggy fern]

So if you started right now it might still be worth it to build a nuclear power plant

Assuming it only takes 20 years to pay off

[mystic ermine]

Yea, I think it's generally reated at like 7, but, once you eal with all the hold-ups, etc, it blows ass

the economics also such ass compared to just throwing a few dozen solar panels on a cheap disused field somewhere

But, that ain't gonna solve our issues in the long run unless we also get a huge chunk of storage in place

[foggy fern]

Nuclear is like the communism of power 😉

It requires perfect central planning of the grid decades ahead of time to work

[mystic ermine]

We did have some recent experiment iirc where we tool advantage of solar farms to act as "grid services", so, that's nice

Biggest issue is, what do you replace the nukes which ar ebeing decomissionsed with?

Ideally, they get replaced with something green, either another nuke (which, hahahaa), so wind/solar, but, then you also gotta have the capacity to ensure the constant load those plants provided is baically available on the grid somehow

our grid as-is is already teetering on the edge of "stable"

[foggy fern]

https://www.diw.de/de/diw_01.c.670590.de/publikationen/weekly_reports/high_priced_and_dangerous_nuclear_power_is_not_an_option_for_the_climate_friendly_energy_mix.html

An empirical survey of the 674 nuclear power plants that have ever been built showed that private economic motives never played a role. Instead military interests have always been the driving force behind their construction.

[mystic ermine]

Wel, yea,the economics of nuclear are crazy unless you wanna be in debt for a decade or two

[foggy fern]

https://www.kernd.de/kernd-wAssets/docs/fachzeitschrift-atw/artikel/atw_2019-10_wendland_peters.pdf apparently disputes that study but I don't speak gibberish

[mystic ermine]

solar being cheap is ofc a much more attractive solution to people wanting to do that

high risk of proliferation

Pretty sure that's also been debunked

[foggy fern]

Most reactors the material would only be good for a dirty bomb but to make nuclear long term viable you'd need breeder reactors and they'll make bomb material

[mystic ermine]

It's really hard to say about financial vs miliarity instigation as the gov's not gonna tell us until they gotta

"high price" afaik is also generally subjective too, contries using large %'s of nuclear generally have some of the better price/Kwh

[foggy fern]

Yeah, the specifics on that can all be argued which is why it's nice that we've now seen in reality that renewable+storage can be sold for less than nuclear, we don't need to debate hypotheticals 😄

[mystic ermine]

We know it can be cheaper, the question is the environmental impacts of all of that and the long term issues of disposal, etc

the debates people have against nuclear often fall inline to the same level of debates people have against wind/solar

it's all fun

[foggy fern]

https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/2017/10/the-opportunities-of-solar-panel-recycling

btw that ars technica article also argues against building a lot of batteries

Well, the study does really

It basically says use solar and wind when you can, build batteries to buffer against minor dips and allow seamless handoff to natural gas plants, and don't even bother putting CO2 capture on the natural gas plants

Because in their setup you won't have a need for batteries or the natural gas plants often enough for it to be worth it

There are, however, significant hurdles to getting there beyond simple economics. The emission-free future will involve us installing roughly 160GW of wind and solar per year in less than two decades; 2021 will see us installing only 15GW. And the switch to electric vehicles and appliances has to start now—anything that breaks should be replaced with an electric version, which does not seem to be happening.

[mystic ermine]

biggest issue with cars is the cost of electric vehicles, and there's still some hefty hurdels if we wanna live with our modern conveniences

think most "1st world" or whatever contries have plans to ban ICE engines within the next 20-30 years

[dusky raft]

electric is still a luxury to have and still has some issues to overcome

[mystic ermine]

not in some parts of the world

At least, luxury wise

[dusky raft]

if your talking about mopeds, then no,

[foggy fern]

China is way ahead there iirc

Although yeah, I guess that's mostly scooters and mopeds and such

[mystic ermine]

A few dozen issues with the grid is that it wasn't designed for the "new" distribution techniques

Oh, you mean cars, nvm

in my defence, am kinda brain dead

biggest issue is range anxiety and getting chargers in place

apparently tesla is doing a much better job than even the market is doing in terms of availability

I don't think an EV would be viable for me where I live if I was to ever learn to drive

[dusky raft]

For most people, range isnt an issue, and I do think cities need to adopt a more pedestrian friendly way of thinking

the US is still horrible at that

lol

[mystic ermine]

Well, it's not an issue for most but they're not really taught that

[foggy fern]

The US is the land of the car

We didn't build most of our stuff until after cars were a thing

[mystic ermine]

for some areas, you really ain't got no choice, but, for some areas it's crazy

[dusky raft]

yeah, I live in the middle of nowhere, and I would need to drive to get to anyplace

[mystic ermine]

Like, there's parts of the UK where if you don't have a car you're fucked if you wanna say, go pick up food in an emergency or something

[foggy fern]

Well, I guess a lot of it was more designed for horse-drawn wagons but most of Europe was built for people pushing wheelbarrows so still a major difference

[mystic ermine]

depends on the area, really, and a lot of the "in walking range" stuff is closing because of the convenience of the internet vs having to swing by in the 30 minutes you have after work before they close, etc

covid has massively accelerated some of that too

[shut vine]

FCEV is probably long term the most viable solution for reducing car polution.

[mystic ermine]

issue afaik is the whole cat/mouse thing

[shut vine]

We wont see 100% vehicle adoption in even 100 years though.

[mystic ermine]

We don't have enough hydrogen production and current production techniques are inefficent af

not to mention that hydrogen loves to go boom

[shut vine]

I personally doubt ever, there will always be people who want combustion, and several vehicle types the world relies on are not very viable as electric.

[mystic ermine]

hydrogen is defo a nice sorta middle-ground for long haul if we can get it

[shut vine]

Combustion is only at ~55% efficiency too. So there is massive room to improve efficiency.

[mystic ermine]

Like, batteries can already deal and already do deal with final (few) mile delivery

Depends on what you mean by "room"

[shut vine]

Yeah I agree, cat v mouse.

[mystic ermine]

are we hitting limitations practically vs physically

e.g. there is only so much effiency you can get from solar panels in general unless we find some completely new way to do it

[shut vine]

According to people in the know, between 80% and 90% is realistically obtainable.

[mystic ermine]

nothing like the raw power of dinosaur squeezings

[foggy fern]

Peak efficiency possible for an ICE that would make sense in a car is 62.5% to 66.9%

[shut vine]

Solar panels are good except the raw materials in my opinion. Little bit of space.. think it's 8 acres per megawatt?

[foggy fern]

So either your people in the know are lying to you or you made them up

[mystic ermine]

biggest thing for solar is small scale deployments

[shut vine]

They're easily the cheapest form of power.

[mystic ermine]

every house with a powerwall, etc

issue is grid stability in typing all of this together, as well as those on the breadline

[foggy fern]

That's actually the highest number I could find for an ICE

Everyone else says things like 37%, 42%, 50%, etc

[shut vine]

Yeah.. that's the highest current, theoretical is different.

[foggy fern]

No, that's the highest theoretical I could find

Carnot and Otto are how you end up with the other three numbers I just gave

[shut vine]

Several engines operate at 60% currently.

[foggy fern]

Then several engines apparently run close to the ideal

Although this is taking in to account materials science and using realistic temperatures, compression ratios, etc

[mystic ermine]

issue is often that efficency is complex, especially with variable input/output

[foggy fern]

That's why I said best that would be practical to put in a car

[mystic ermine]

Like, often these systems are rated for best efficency at a specific performance point, e.g. X RPMs

how often are you sitting at that many rippems in traffic/down the highway? etc

[foggy fern]

That's some real skookum language

In the same realm as the spherical cow the maximum theoretical efficiency for an open cycle engine (which an ICE is) would be 100%

[shut vine]

I mean, I literally took 10s to find this:
http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2011/ph240/goldenstein2/

[foggy fern]

You'll just never get there because we don't have unobtanium

[shut vine]

With typical combustion engines operating between 1750°K and 298°K, this equation states that the maximum efficiency for such an engine is 83%

[foggy fern]

Carnot doesn't actually apply

[shut vine]

Either way, the people who've made the statements are far more knowledgeable in the area than me or any Google search.

[foggy fern]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_efficiency#Gasoline_(petrol)_engines

That's slide 25 of https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/03/f8/deer11_edwards.pdf

[mystic ermine]

We need the electric vehical variant of the lada, or, basically, "your first car" type deals