And with it being like impossible to fire people from a job in the government...
#politics
faint radish
foggy fern
Looks like one thing that would stop a lot of this would be to nationalize the doctors offices, hospitals, and pharmacies đ
They're doing fraudulent billing for devices and services they don't provide then pocketing the difference
If the government owned the place where that service was performed they'd just get a salary
faint radish
Cause I want the same people who govern the dmv to govern my medical care.
Just look at the responses to Covid + vaccine distribution in the US. Some of the problem can be attributed to Trump, but he doesnât take ALL the blame. The CDC said wayyyy back that they had all the testing we would need.
I donât want the government in charge of my health care cause they havenât demonstrated to me that they can do something that important and that massive, well.
When itâs your money, you are always going to care more about how you spend it. When the government spends it, itâs not âtheirâ money, so the mindset is different. And I donât trust unelected bureaucrats to make up that difference.
foggy fern
If you want to avoid fraud the only other alternative is to kill Medicare and Medicaid entirely and that isn't going to happen
faint radish
No it wonât. Thatâs another thing with entitlement programs. Once they start, they arenât ever gonna end.
foggy fern
People are too greedy, the problem is too widespread to easily identify (I read the article), and the punishments are too weak
If we didn't have the social safety net companies would actually have to pay a living wage and either bring back pensions or pay enough for people to save for retirement
faint radish
People are too greedy, the problem is too widespread to easily identify (I read ...
All of which, arenât solved by giving the programs more money.
foggy fern
Well, it could, if you increase spending to increase the investigative and enforcement part future budgets could shrink as they clean up the fraud
You're arguing for something that is impossible to practically do and that the vast majority of the country doesn't want
faint radish
Thatâs the thing with Covid stimulus, if the government started giving out monthly payments, when they got close to expiring, someone would trot out the 75 year old grandma who would die if they stopped.
foggy fern
The only other alternative is to do nothing and just keep bitching about it
faint radish
I donât think I was arguing for anything, except against an expansion of government healthcare.
Which is possible, since it hasnât happened yet, but things arent trending in my direction.
foggy fern
The only solution you accepted to fixing the problem you brought up is killing the program
faint radish
Oh yeah, idk what the best solution is, thankfully itâs not my job, but I can say that the solution probably doesnât include making it worse first.
foggy fern
"making it worse" is in fact the solution to a lot of problems
Otherwise it's easy to have things wind up in a death spiral
Business is failing, instead of taking out a loan to improve some part of it or advertise more I'll cut hours and advertise less
Repeat until the business is gone
Sometimes more money doesn't help or you spent the money on the wrong thing but refusing to even consider the option is much more likely to result in failure
The article you linked also points out that every $1 spent on one of their efforts saves $8 in fraud
faint radish
My whole thing is the government sucks at spending money. Itâs all over the place, not just with healthcare. And my example with healthcare was to point out that the government also doesnât really seem to care as much how they spend our (the taxpayers) money.
So I donât want to give them more.
The tool voters have to curb government expansion is to vote no on tax increases. All of them.
foggy fern
That's a very 12 year old way of looking at things
As economies change and rise and fall you raise and lower taxes, change where tax revenue comes from, add and remove deductions and credits, etc
If you only ever allow it to go down you're going for the "starve the beast" strategy
faint radish
Yes, exactly.
faint radish
Find programs that are the most important and keep those. Yes, libertarian.
faint radish
Well there is hardly 1 type of libertarian. So I think itâs wrong to lump them all together.
And itâs def a scale from anarchist, to whatever the opposite of that is.
foggy fern
How do you feel about Ayn Rand?
restive seal
Is there a type that doesn't scream "lower taxes!"
foggy fern
The original libertarians believed we should have things like universal basic income
Most "libertarians" are Randians
faint radish
Objectivismâs definition of government I think is right.
foggy fern
Randians are who that article is about
faint radish
... thus, government is both legitimate and critically important in order to protect individual rights
But I donât think I go as far as, there is no duty to help anyone else, cause Iâm Catholic so I think there IS such a duty.
foggy fern
iirc Rand hated being called a libertarian because she thought they were all socialists
faint radish
Well iirc ayn rand staunchly supported abortion.
âBut I thought there wasnât a difference between men and women...â
women are less likely to be drawn to political philosophies that emphasize self-reliance and risk
foggy fern
I didn't say I agreed with their attempts to explain why it happens
weary obsidian
Biden was like the least socialist person we fucking could of chose, and republicans still scream socialism
foggy fern
I was just linking it to show more proof libertarianism is for emotionally stunted men who act like boys đ
faint radish
Wouldnât traditional feminism be all on board with this? Self-reliance was part of what that was.
foggy fern
Everyone goes through a libertarian phase
Well, every dude seems to anyway
I thought I was a libertarian when I was 18 but when I was 22 I voted for Obama
faint radish
Well, like I said, there are a zillion flavors of libertarianism. Some are legit open-border types, Iâm certainly not. https://reason.com/2016/06/09/libertarianism-yes-but-what-kind-of-libe/
I think âvirtue libertarianismâ lines up with me fairly well.
shut vine
People like lumping people into labels, it's how they shame them.
Also first wave feminists were indeed individualists and libertarians.
faint radish
it certainly makes sense that they were
dusky raft
oh, looks like pelosi's work laptop was stolen
shut vine
Maybe they'll find Hilary's emails.
dusky raft
lol
foggy fern
btw first wave feminism, at least in the US, also had some... problems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_feminism
shut vine
Every movement has issues for sure.
foggy fern
Perhaps because libertarians are philosophically selfish so it was a "fuck you, got mine" kind of thing
valid falcon
Medicare is more efficient than private health insurance.
shut vine
Which is why the ACA was a disaster.
dusky raft
medicare or medicaid?
they are two different systems
also yes, the ACA was utter crap
foggy fern
Medicare is the government paying for things, medicaid is the government paying health insurance premiums and deductibles for you
shut vine
I hear Mitt Romney's friends doubled their profits though. đ
valid falcon
Let's recognize what is wrong with a thing, instead of saying the entire ACA is crap. The ACA ended pre-existing health conditions. People with life threatening conditions are alive because of this change.
foggy fern
The problem with the ACA is that it isn't medicare for all đ
(thanks Lieberman)
The original would have morphed in to something like medicare for all as people realized the public option was the cheapest/best
Lieberman killed the public option so instead it was massive regulatory capture by the insurance industry
shut vine
Strange, that sounds a lot like Trump's Medical plan. The medical plan of wishful thinking. What would have been. đ
dusky raft
the problem the ACA was that it propped up the industry and sure, fixed pre-existing conditions, but now insurance costs more
shut vine
Well to be fair, insurance premiums went up at about the same rate. Maybe very slightly more.
dusky raft
going into the insurance market became more risky for newer businesses, leaving only established ones
foggy fern
Nationwide insurance premiums have gone up less than they were projected to do so before ACA was a thing
shut vine
That's false.
shut vine
They maintained a very steady rate pre-ACA and post-ACA.
However every major health insurance company over doubled their profits post-ACA within 4 years.
foggy fern
The first couple years were really rocky as providers basically sold their plans at either way too high of a rate or way too low of a rate
So if you got on one of those cheaper ones when it got jacked up to something in line with the rest you'd go on TV and tell O'Reilly the ACA was making your insurance unaffordable đ
dusky raft
insurance also shouldnt be tied to a job...
foggy fern
The sad thing is the ACA is still the best thing anyone can think of that involves the insurance industry
shut vine
I would not involve the government with private insurance at all.
That's what cancer about it in my opinion.
foggy fern
Insurance is a big part of the problem with the healthcare industry
I would outlaw medical insurance đ
Or medicare for all, you know
dusky raft
or maybe tell people to label their services up front than calculate it 4 weeks after?
shut vine
Nah, just end the governments involvement in it, have the regulations in the medical industry, pharmaceutical, and medical devices.
foggy fern
Their rates are dependent on who your insurance provider is
dusky raft
thats one of the major issues with the health industry in general, there is no price labels, and can be fixed whenever and who for
shut vine
Spend the actual money in public health.
Then if people want insurance they get it, and the taxes on it help pay for public health.
foggy fern
Insurance talks about this as collective bargaining and why you should pick them over their competitors who don't negotiate as well
But in reality they just jack up the "standard" rates, give everyone more or less similar discounts, and employ twice as many people as they'd need just to handle the paperwork for this mess
dusky raft
yes, I think it shouldnt be the insurance to get the bill first, it should be the consumer, up front, discharged from the hospital or clinic or whereever.
shut vine
Absolutely.
valid falcon
Woa woa wait
Are you talking about a choice to use private insurance for a hospital bill?
dusky raft
what im saying is that the patient shouldnt be left in the dark
shut vine
He's talking about that, and knowing the cost before you actually commit
valid falcon
Unless you're talking about a public option, I think you're talking about the current system.
You have a right to ask the cost before you seek treatment.
shut vine
And they have the right to say "idk".
valid falcon
No they dont
shut vine
In USA depending on the state they absolutely do.
valid falcon
They actualyl have to tell you the estimated or exact cost for a ct scan.
dusky raft
yes, Ive been told on discharge that I wouldnt know anything until 4 weeks later
or until insurance fucks it over
valid falcon
Not going to sugar coat it, but if you walk away not knowing this info, that is on you.
You have to be your advocate.
I know that is difficult in a tough situation like a hospital, but thats just the current reality.
I'm not saying I like it.
dusky raft
I litterally asked them multiple times how much would this cost, to a doctor, nurse, and the person who would discharge me from the clinic
nothing
valid falcon
Not saying things are perfect either. It is still on you to demand that.
And demand documnentation.
dusky raft
you will hear from us 4 weeks later with the insurance applied to it
valid falcon
This documentation can be used to absolve you of costs.
dusky raft
there should be a bill up front, discharged:
BILL:
<item entry> - <cost>
Total:
[] Use Insurance
I'm going to say no to that, in our current system.
dusky raft
why?
hospitals are computerized 99% of the time, they know what you were treated for
why cant I get all the information up front when I leave?
valid falcon
we have serious complications with medical malpractice, overcharging by doctors, overcharging by pharmacies. While the private insurance system is not preferable to medicare, by not involving insurance in the process you lose their bargaining abilities (however weak they are). From a liability standpoint as well, things don't work that simply.
shut vine
I'd go one step further and say they should be required to give you an itemized estimation of costs, including any costs to likely complications.
Not on request, as part of admittance and your informed consent to undergo any procedure.
dusky raft
but you would have a "bill of sale"
shut vine
It should be a standardized layout too.
dusky raft
proof of what it would and will cost
if your saying that it should be hidden for 4 weeks while the administration AND insurance jacks up the price
thats insane
valid falcon
It is up to you to seek documentation.
If you settle for things without it, that is on you.
If you demand documentation, and they provide it, and try to slap you with an added bill later, you can easily win and not pay it.
dusky raft
than make it a fucking law...
shut vine
I'm guessing you've not been to court.
dusky raft
I dont understand the point of your arguement
the current system can be modified to provide that up front, and paper is cheap...
valid falcon
And I don't understand the point of yours. You are ignoring how your plan will actually decimate the healthcare of millions of people.
dusky raft
but all I hear is medicare for all, which UPENDS the entire system
shut vine
Going to court and winning on a bill less than about 100,000USD is going to be a Pyrrhic victory.
dusky raft
I dont understand how it would change anything?
how is modifying the process of payment going to destroy healthcare?
valid falcon
Just about every single health provider in the united states has private financial management or is entirely privately funded. If you propose only addressing involving insurance after the fact, then not only will the majority of patients go bankrupt, hospitals and health care networks will cease to exist.
Our financial and liability system simply can not be uprooted with a one line law.
dusky raft
but all I am saying is that insurance is to be applied much like sending your creditcard info...
valid falcon
Your credit card info is liability.
Your credit card co says they evaluated you, and this is what they agree to on honor
Healthcare is different
dusky raft
so is your insurance information you give them when you go into their system...
valid falcon
If you want that kind of thing, pay it on your credit card
You can do that
You can fight with the insurance after the fact
Just about every health insurance plan allows for that
That is an option for you
There is no reason why you can't do that.
shut vine
I mean, most countries these days have hospitals that have these things called computers.
valid falcon
Just say the word
mystic ermine
Biggest thing I think would be trying to solve the excessive administrative overheads of everything
dusky raft
I really dont understand what your going on about. what I am saying is that hospitals shouldnt hide prices, and you would know what the insurance tacks on after the fact and you have the option to do so
valid falcon
A lot if packed into admin overhead that really should not be there, too
dusky raft
I dont know what would ruin healthcare
valid falcon
And if you demand to see the prices, they are required to show you it and provide you documentation.
mystic ermine
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/news/2020/nov/insulin-prices-remain-high-in-america.html
Insulin prices in America remain between more than 10 times higher than the prices of the same insulin in other countries, according to a recent report.
valid falcon
It is like you are blaming the police for allowing you to blow a stop sign.
dusky raft
but why ask?
and the police give me a ticket if I did something wrong
or throw me in jail
valid falcon
But you're asking for others to be responsible for you before you do something
You can be responsible for it yourself
mystic ermine
The thing is that you'll see once price, and your insurance provider will see another
But, they don't pass that "friends" discount to you
valid falcon
Yep
dusky raft
which should be illegal
valid falcon
Nope.
At least not without major reorganization of the healthcare industry
Which I am for
But you can't pull one string, and expect everything to be fine.
dusky raft
I am for reorganization, but im in favor of up to the person to decide, when able minded.
mystic ermine
The thing about single payer which is a concern to people looking at the system is giving a bunch of corporations access to an essentially limitless pot of gold
mystic ermine
Doesn't stop the government spending billions in useless money
dusky raft
I should have the choice of if I want to use insurance, but I also want the choice of being able to choose upfront
shut vine
Which costs what is it.. unicorns and rainbows.. or was it money?
valid falcon
That's good governemnt vs bad government.
mystic ermine
and the US clearly has a good government
valid falcon
I'm saying that that point is differnt
shut vine
I personally feel like you didn't even read half of what he said
valid falcon
I read everythign he said. I ask you not to make assumptions on me that are pointless
dusky raft
Its why I said that insurance should be applied like giving information of a credit card.
your ID and maybe some security
which you already do at hospitals/clinics
mystic ermine
Basically, the biggest thing that I could see which is unlikely ever gonna happen is that there is regulation put on place on how much they can inflate costs
valid falcon
You already do that when you enter a hospital, i mena, if you're not dying at that moment i mean
valid falcon
Basically, the biggest thing that I could see which is unlikely ever gonna happe...
That already happened. Sort of in the ACA.
whoops sorry
dusky raft
what Im opting for is just some extra paperwork, just move the insurance info at the end of the stay, and give the patient a slip of paper like that from a cash register, which a check mark to use insurance.
shut vine
Yeah but the ACA was a disaster.
mystic ermine
Which my ex's mother lovingly had to get a second job around the time it was rolled out
valid falcon
Try calling the ACA a disaster to insulin patients, cancer patients, and chronically ill patients.
mystic ermine
It was a disaster
valid falcon
So is everythign
mystic ermine
Yes, it got some people out of the fuck it bucket
shut vine
You're flat out wrong if you think it wasn't.
mystic ermine
But, it also harmed a lot of people it was slated to help
valid falcon
Please find a patient suffering from diabetes and tell them you want them to go back to pre-existing conditons.
You might not survive that conversation lol
shut vine
Individual mandate literally had people who could not afford insurance fined for not having it.
That's evil.
valid falcon
Everything isnt a 1 or a 0.
Nothing is perfect, and I'm not saying that the ACA was perfect.
mystic ermine
There where people too broke that it made sense to just pay the fine if they ever needed to
valid falcon
But to say it is worse than nothing, begs if you ever understood what things were like before the ACA.
mystic ermine
it was cheaper than insurance in the long run if you couldn't afford it or something dumb
restive seal
Individual mandate with fine is dumb. Medicare for all solves that problem.
valid falcon
There are hundreds of thousands of children who have some healthcare access because of the ACA.
They would not have it ithout it.
They would not have found chronic conditions. They would be dead.
restive seal
ACA is definitely an ugly mess, but it's a step in the right direction. Gotta go all the way and ensure everyone is protected without the nightmare of profit-driven insurance.
valid falcon
Traffic laws are a mess. That doesn't mean we say, throw it all out.
We can improve things.
shut vine
I mean if you force people to have health coverage.. I guess it makes sense they'll have health coverage.
Yeah, which is what I said earlier.
restive seal
Include strong oversight of the government run healthcare to avoid the concerns of bloat and whatnot.
shut vine
Government spending basically needs corporate style auditing.
shut vine
Governments suck at their own oversight.
restive seal
I hesitate to say corporate style auditing considering the waste and greed you get in corporations but yeah, proper oversight is good.
shut vine
Well I say that because you don't want the government auditing itself.
valid falcon
That's ignorant, to be honest. Most democratic governments have oversight efforts like NGOs, watchdog agencies, and of course the public at large.
restive seal
Governments suck at their own oversight.
Yeah, Trump stripping away oversight of PPP stuff was a huge problem. But I'm sure there's some way to legislatively ensure it's gonna happen.
shut vine
PPP?
valid falcon
Well, without any effort in the system to provide documentation for outside oversight efforts, then you have nothing. So if you say "no oversight" what you get is "no oversight"
mystic ermine
I mean, I hate to bring up LA, but, they where renting warehouses at 2-3* minimum above market rate last I recall
restive seal
PPP?
The stimulus stuff for businesses. https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/07/trump-removes-independent-watchdog-for-coronavirus-funds-upending-oversight-panel-171943
valid falcon
Nope. But if you say you want no government effort to assist in oversight, then you get 0.
valid falcon
It is tabulated.
mystic ermine
government agencies are literally encouraged by the system to waste cash so they can aim to keep their budget/get an increase, etc
restive seal
government agencies are literally encouraged by the system to waste cash so they...
Surely that's something that could be resolved through legislation...
valid falcon
Saying you don't want an entitiy to keep oversight of itself, or to even try, is like saying you want no consideration for budget at all. It's silly. You can have outside oversight efforts. But you absoltly must have internal efforts that provide that review and data to the public.
This data is how we keep oversight.
And that doesn't pop out of thin air.
zzz, by "the system" do you mean political budget process in general?
Or are you talking about something specific
shut vine
Surely that's something that could be resolved through legislation...
It's generally a tricky balance, the issue is if a department budgets for x, and only spend y, next time they ask for x they're likely only to get y.
shut vine
You can't easily solve that with legislation.
valid falcon
Well, that is true anywhere though
faint radish
its certainly not
shut vine
The only real way to do it is to force government departments to plan. Which requires continuity.
mystic ermine
You're gonna get some level of waste in any business, but, I mean, the governments digging itself into a debt hole
restive seal
There's a significant amount of continuity once you get below political appointees. Most things most departments do keep happening regardless of who is in charge.
faint radish
well I think there's too much continuity sometimes, its almost impossible to fire a federal employee
restive seal
You're gonna get some level of waste in any business, but, I mean, the governmen...
Much like under Obama, and Clinton, I expect to see that get that trajectory turned around again now.
faint radish
you just get moved around
valid falcon
It absolutely is. If a department in a company can achieve its goals without X cash, then that department can do with less. It's not a 'mandated' effort do thus spend the money. It is a human response due to the natural consequence of the affair.
shut vine
Yeah, but those appointees usually steer the ultimate direction of departments and what they spend on.
restive seal
well I think there's too much continuity sometimes, its almost impossible to fir...
If only we could implement such good worker protection across all jobs, like other developed nations (see: Europe) have.
No kashike đŚ
valid falcon
The only real way to do it is to force government departments to plan. Which req...
This called a budget, and oversight
mystic ermine
There was some city or something which started privatising everything pretty much, like park maintenance, they save a metric fuckton
dusky raft
yeah, in Georgia
faint radish
If only we could implement such good worker protection across all jobs, like oth...
nah, if a goverment employee does a crappy job, it should be very easy to get rid of them.
valid falcon
Right, im not saying privatize. I'm just saying that the practice is inherant to all budgeting, not just in the public
shut vine
This called a budget, and oversight
It's called once they have the money, they can spend it how they want.
mystic ermine
Oh, oh, oh
faint radish
if any employee does a crappy job, whoever they work for should be able to fire them
valid falcon
XD
shut vine
It looks shit.
sand shale
How the actual fuck did that cost $2m
dusky raft
private companies are forced to survive if the cash flow slows down
mystic ermine
political paperwork wankery and all that
dusky raft
the problem is when government props them up
shut vine
They probably spent 1m just on planning.
dusky raft
either in maintain the monopoly, give them direct cash, or make regulations favor them
valid falcon
I believe that some businesses deserve help during a disaster.
dusky raft
im talking about big business with the cash to influence DC
valid falcon
But not all. And not for all occassions.
shut vine
Well the Democrats certainly did that to big corporations.
valid falcon
Because Republicans don't have any corporate lobbying. lol
shut vine
Made sure they could still keep operating.
mystic ermine
They're all corrupt af
shut vine
Of course they are.
mystic ermine
Not literally all, but, like
valid falcon
It is the nature of things when the public stops caring about how their government works.
Want to change it? Get involved. Campaign. convince people to care.
shut vine
Of course they are, they are politicians.
shut vine
Who hates someone due to their profession? Or why did this come up?
mystic ermine
where you work for the people, not stick 'em in the back and get rich off the wants of large corporations
valid falcon
You are calling all politicans corrupt. Pretty slanderous.
shut vine
You're assuming my position, pretty slanderous.
valid falcon
I'm taking you at your words.
shut vine
Yea, leave me alone.
valid falcon
Sure.
If you don't like conclusions to be drawn about you based on your statments, I ask you to refrain from the same.
faint radish
valid falcon
I hate walmart.
shut vine
I wont ask you again to leave me alone.
faint radish
you do? they provide low cost goods to millions of americans
valid falcon
I understand a lot of people work there, but I hate its history on communities and employees over the last 20 years.
Walmart arrives at that low price through brutal means. A company can be better.
faint radish
a small business can't even come close to matching walmarts prices, because walmarts existing infrastructure is hugely beneficial to the consumer
mystic ermine
the grocery industry is pretty cut throat, but, ^
valid falcon
Sure. The same as Amazon and as zzz said
sand shale
Even though covid has been horrible, there are some things I hope will continue after it
shut vine
Yeah, they also had that lady in Hollywood who couldn't have her outdoor dining area, and allowed a movie studio to set one up right next door.
mystic ermine
It's the company who can offer the cheapest price and experience
sand shale
Mainly, so many places offering delivery, and a lot of the health precautions and stuff now
mystic ermine
Over here in the UK we got stores like ALDI which are cheap but good
valid falcon
I like scan and pay apps in grocery stores.
mystic ermine
Their cashiers literally fucking light speed items through the till
valid falcon
I hate using checkouts at the end. I mean, before I loved self checkout, but scan as you go saves so much time and bagging effort.
mystic ermine
We don't really have that over here
I thiiink like one store offered it but I never cared to figure it out, or if I ever went there often
faint radish
amazon hired 175000 new employees for covid. could they treat employees better? sure, all companies can treat employees better. but big businesses aren't inherently bad.
valid falcon
Scan as you go?
mystic ermine
Yea
valid falcon
aww
shut vine
Mainly, so many places offering delivery, and a lot of the health precautions an...
Yeah I was basically doing this pre-COVID, it's super convenient.
sand shale
Even self-checkouts. One store has 6 here, Walmart has like... 24 self-checkout lanes
shut vine
amazon hired 175000 new employees for covid. could they treat employees better? ...
Yeah I agree, just feel the government gave them special treatment when mom and pop stores had to shut.
sand shale
I'm so fast at them since I know a lot of the produce codes etc
shut vine
People have to decide at the end of the day if they're willing to do work for a company based on conditions/pay etc.
mystic ermine
We got barcodes on pretty much everything bar fresh fruit, but, the packaged stuff is generally good enough for me
faint radish
big businesses will always be able to offer goods cheaper. and that is a good thing.
valid falcon
I agree with kash, I like that we are getting away from literal cash, and that we are wearing masks. I mean, before covid, I hated when people had sniffles and sneezed. I jsut knew I would get sick and need to see my doctor and take pills
sand shale
Yup
mystic ermine
I hope that it defo raises more hopes for people to stay the fuck at home if they got the sniffles
sand shale
I barely ever used cash before covid, only once in the past 8 months or so now
valid falcon
zzz, you have barcodes on your fruit?
mystic ermine
Stuff is generally bagged
valid falcon
We have to put them in bags , weigh, and label them,
mystic ermine
e.g. you can get bagged banana's and such
valid falcon
weird
shut vine
Labeling fresh produce is actually pretty common.
mystic ermine
a fair chunk of it you gotta bag yourself
faint radish
so what's up with health care workers not wanting the vaccine? https://www.govtech.com/em/safety/Health-Workers-Refusing-COVID-Vaccines-in-Sluggish-Rollout.html
valid falcon
Same @sand shale
mystic ermine
I mean, there was a few incidents with them
shut vine
They probably know the mRNA vaccines are not well tested. đ
mystic ermine
and apparently there was some hospital where some nurse or somebody ruined like a dooozen of the vaccines
valid falcon
In my part of the country, vaccine rollout from place to place is terribly uneen. SOme places have 78% use of scheduled supply, but some places haveonly 13%
shut vine
i.e. pre-2020 there was no human trial.
mystic ermine
it's tin foil hat season
sand shale
I know it is not gonna happen, but
mystic ermine
But, I already got health issues potentially relating to my immune system, am not sure I really wanna touch it, but, the tech seemed kinda interesting
valid falcon
Understandable
sand shale
I wish people would continue wearing masks "normally" after covid is over
shut vine
The issues faced in preliminary testing were severe auto-immune responses in people that never had auto-immune responses in their life.
Many companies as recent as 2018/2019 completely abandoned their trillion dollar mRNA research programs.
valid falcon
I really hope the mrna tech continues. It can be a game changer for development and manufacturing. I mena... as long as we get those cold freezers...
mystic ermine
I don't think we gotta go crazy with masks, but, would be nice if they become more of the norm during flu season and such
valid falcon
+1 to that
Id say that anyone who feels the sniffles or something should wear it at any time. I mean, my docots office already did that pre covid. Come in with a cough? Put on a mask.
Id say that anyone who feels the sniffles or something should wear it at any time. I mean, my docots office already did that pre covid. Come in with a cough? Put on a mask.
sand shale
Yea
I've liked it being a requirement on busses and taxis and such, since they aren't as "open"
valid falcon
What made me vomit in my mouth is how many people neeed to buy soap....
shut vine
Realistically people have to be careful when they get colds flus. It's more about personal hygiene than anything else. Masks are great for absent minded people or those who are lazy though.
shut vine
They do help most people avoid touching their face when they're used to touching it a lot.
valid falcon
A long time ago I worked in the food industry. Omg. People did not wash their hands. I literally washed ym hands after every single thing.
foggy fern
Was trying to catch up on the earlier discussion, it sounds like what you guys want is price controls on medical costs
If not the answer to what something costs is going to depend on your insurance plan
Japan has private insurance but price controls, it's a decent system
clear maple
sweet canyon
Holy shit
weary obsidian
did he post something new
opal moat
foggy fern
Was just coming to say that
clear maple
Only the two from early today
foggy fern
weary obsidian
double thanos snap of trump time
cursive spindle
RIP
cursive spindle
I hope impeachment of President Trump doesn't occur, because that would to do more harm than good with just a coupe of days left
weary obsidian
i think were past the point of healing, WAY past. trump supporters are too far gone to accept hes bad
healing = trump supporters realizing his faults
and wanting to come back to normality
valid falcon
Did he do something again? Or was it just in general, given the events
sudden wyvern
I hope impeachment of President Trump doesn't occur, because that would to do mo...
It would prevent him from holding any form of office in the future
Any "harm" would be immediately outweighed by that fact alone
Assuming Republicans grow a spine and removal gets passed the Senate
weary obsidian
plus republicans turning on him more yes causes further divide on trump supporters vs republicans, but it makes it bipartisan
so hopefully, sane people will wake up and realize ok this isnt a giant conspiracy against him, maybe i was duped
sudden wyvern
It's why I'm kind of hoping Pence doesn't enact the 25th ammendment
valid falcon
Aikar, I believe that as well, but I hope that eventually they can look at it retrospectively, and maybe come to different conclusions. I mean, I doubt that can happen... but I hope
sudden wyvern
You're extremely optimistic still clearly
weary obsidian
were fucked overall, theres so many who's past the point of no return
valid falcon
I'm really not, but I believe we have to hope in some cases, otherwise how can we have a path forward if we only lay into the worst of mankind?
Like, if you know me and what I have gone through this year, you will know my feelings can be very different
cursive spindle
Extremists still believing that more has to come
sudden wyvern
Yeahhh... Biden's going to have a rough 4 years
valid falcon
Not Biden. All of us.
sudden wyvern
Right
foggy fern
clear maple
Can the impeach him after he leaves office ?
cursive spindle
Why would people go & destroy their own house- the people's house? I still don't understand what would they get from breaching into the Capitol.
foggy fern
I hope impeachment of President Trump doesn't occur, because that would to do mo...
Twitter
shut vine
It's highly debated if a past official can be impeached. Likely it'd come down to a SCOTUS decision if they tried since impeachment is a constitutional system.
Debated by legal scholars, that is.
sand shale
Was he impeached?
shut vine
Yeah, but not convicted.
Last year.
I believe the only precedent in history is William Belknap, who was impeached, resigned, then the Senate voted on if it had jurisdiction, which it voted in favor of (but then acquitted). But that doesn't really answer the question from a legal standpoint. It's not the job of the Senate to interpret the constitution.
But they wouldn't need to impeach him.. all they would need to do is convict him of a crime that excludes a person from holding an office of trust.
dusky raft
there isnt a point of impeachment, and even if he did lead a coup or insurrection, he can be convicted of treason
shut vine
Impeachment itself is not meant as a measure to hold someone accountable legally, but to remove them from office.
dusky raft
even then I still think it is difficult to measure treason with what happened, as it was a bunch of angry trump supporters/conservatives.
shut vine
It would also be considered a nuclear weapon option, once it's done once each party is going to start doing it.
Well, you can't hold a politician accountable for their supporters actions. He can be held accountable for what he's said, if it can reasonably be considered incite to violence.
dusky raft
he wasnt leading the protest/riot nor storming the senate
shut vine
But those things are relatively difficult to prove.
raven hearth
The moderates in the Republican party, need to become more outspoken in the coming months. That is going to be the best route forward for them to oust the die-hard trump followers in their party. Most people in the world are followers. Just looking for someone to follow.
A true disgrace so many thought Trump was worthy of following.
foggy fern
even then I still think it is difficult to measure treason with what happened, a...
If lying about a blowjob (and not even actually lying, he got them to define their terms and was truthful within them) is impeachable then seditious conspiracy definitely is
near glen
It's also about the signal. That trump did shouldn't be done by a president, an impeachment would show that that shit just doesn't fly
dusky raft
your talking about bill clinton @foggy fern?
foggy fern
Yeah
shut vine
I mean, nearly 50% of the population thought he was worth supporting.
dusky raft
oh that was stupid
it made no sense for republicans to do that granted it was consented by both parties (not political)
shut vine
If people continue to alienate each other by saying 'this side did that' the divide is not going to get better. Unity wont be possible.
near glen
Well, that was before they saw what they voted for James
shut vine
Most American's have known Trump for a long time.
foggy fern
I think this is impeachable anyway, I'm just saying considering the silly stuff they've impeached for in the past this shouldn't even be an argument
shut vine
Anything is impeachable.
foggy fern
They've known him from The Apprentice
New Yorkers knew him, they didn't vote for him đ
shut vine
You can sneeze and they can impeach you if you hold office.
raven hearth
I mean, nearly 50% of the population thought he was worth supporting.
Even in 2020. Yes so many voted for him, but in their minds - it is because the "other" option was a liberal devil to them.
They just needed someone conservative to follow that has some sanity about them.
shut vine
The question is not if they can impeach, it's if it makes sense to.
Well, most people vote like that in my experience.
raven hearth
Not saying that the people in congress are where to pull ideal conservative leaders from.
dusky raft
I dont think trump was a conservative, he sure as hell wasnt liberal, but he was a registered democrat back in 2012
shut vine
You can vote for someone and not condone all the things they've said or done too.
tough cedar
yea, if you perceive the other side as worse i guess you can
shut vine
Well, to me as an outsider, America has long had a single-party system.
dusky raft
he joined the republicans mainly due to the weak candidates and having at least a position that was strong
foggy fern
weary obsidian
is that a fake or is he unbanned
raven hearth
Yeah. There are paths forward from all of this. Big open question as to whether the leaders in power will make those right decisions to guide towards that better, attempting to truly unify the country.
Or get blinded by this vacuum of post-trump to gain over the love and support of his followers.
foggy fern
is that a fake or is he unbanned
it's a meme
shut vine
I don't think labeling people as one side or another actually means much, the substance of what they stand for is the most important part.
Also their groups/affiliations, and who they voted for matters very little.
I'm specifically saying this is something most people do, but they like to lump everyone into categories and then treat them differently due to those categorizations. Either treating them better, or treating them worse.
dusky raft
Im going to find it difficult that democrats are going to extend an olive branch.
shut vine
I believe that's the underlying issue at play here more than anything else.
shut vine
Well realistically both "sides" need to do that now.
foggy fern
But whenever someone does something dumb and gets punished for it the last couple years someone comes in with this
shut vine
Schadenfreude
dusky raft
well considering that the democrats are going in as a majority in the government, they should be should attempt it
rather than bicker back and forth like they did during the last 4 years
hell
make it 20-25 years.
foggy fern
Democrats can't help themselves with the olive branch shit
shut vine
Well from a purely technical standpoint they only have majority in the house.
foggy fern
They might appeal to liberals in speeches but then they go in to Congress and bend over backwards trying to get Republicans on board with bills they could just pass on their own
So they water them down and put in bullshit only Republicans want wasting a bunch of time just to have none of them vote for it and get a worse result
raven hearth
Biden has a lot of work to keep his independent voters happy. To prove that he is worthy of re-election (I think he will be).
I think it is reasonable to say that Biden very well may have lost if Trump wasn't his opponent.
shut vine
Biden has a lot of work to keep his independent voters happy. To prove that he i...
Yeah, I agree. Especially since it's probably the independent Senators which will decide every bill now.
foggy fern
Since 2018 the House hasn't been doing that so much so I'm hopeful we'll actually move left a little
Sounds like Twitter only did this because enough employees got together and said "he goes or we go"
shut vine
Yeah to be honest looking at the reasoning for why they did it, it seems a little weak to me.
foggy fern
He should have gone long ago, you could go through the last 12 years and find plenty of reasons to ban him
No one cared before 4 years ago and then they were all like "well, it's a public official..."
shut vine
Except they didn't cite the past as the reason.
sweet canyon
Twitter
sweet canyon
Damn that tweet is blowing up, around 1,000 likes per 5 seconds or so
foggy fern
đ¤
sweet canyon
foggy fern
That was the only movie his stupid contract worked for
He had a line in the contract if you filmed in a building he owned he had to be in a scene but the way it was written they could film the scene then just leave it out during editing
The other movies would film these obviously phoned in scenes where they did it in one take and no one cared how it turned out because they were just going to throw it away
valid falcon
People used to actually care about facts and expertise.
valid falcon
I havnt actually seen the twitter statement, yet
foggy fern
I thought the plan was for the 19th
Show up on the 19th, fuck shit up that day and night so they can't do the inauguration on the 20th
As if they can't just do it in a car or something
near glen
It's gotta be a fucking mess
sweet canyon
I have absolutely no idea
near glen
Military better be prepared
loud flax
well, cancel culture does a good job at shutting off anyone you don't agree with, leaving them to find others they agree with
foggy fern
They've got like 800 troops there from now until the 20th and will have more on the day of
faint radish
after what happened at the capitol, it'll be a non-issue come jan 20th. place will be so locked down
loud flax
well people better shut up about olive garden tbh, i'd hate for that to be under the same treatment as the PogChamp emote recently
near glen
Trumpidos will try anyways
faint radish
well try all they want, whatever. there will be so much law enforcement it wont matter
don't think military can be a part of law enforcement, even national guard, can only be supporting efforts.
loud flax
ah just saw that image and read it, good for olive garden
foggy fern
Huh, apparently the guy that was sitting in Pelosi's office gave an interview to NYT, gave them his name, told them all the things he did, and offered them some stationary from her office
Fucking galaxy brain right there
faint radish
have you see the real life cop tv shows that document idiots that then give permission for their face on tv?
this isn't anything new
Take Mark Rober's bait package 3.0. some of the faces are blurred out, but some aren't which means they got permission to use the faces of someone who literally stole a package.
foggy fern
Huh, I thought they were just blurring people they thought might be minors
Didn't really pay attention to it
raven hearth
Unfortunately, looks like the Olive Garden one is untrue. Although hilarious
foggy fern
Yeah that would be a really tone deaf thing for them to do
faint radish
I wonder what the terms of use are for the lifetime passes?
valid falcon
Is there such a thing as a lifetime pasta pass?
faint radish
might not be able to just revoke for anything since I assume its a contract thing.
raven hearth
I don't have an Olive Garden nearby. But I want to know what is going to take to get one of those
valid falcon
I mean, pastafarians may be into that.
faint radish
lifetime passes are almost always money losers.
American Airlines offered lifetime passes for flights on their planes. Guess how that turned out.
valid falcon
Not saying im one of em, but I do believe in the power of a noodly meal
sweet canyon
Yeah how do we get one of those
faint radish
all you can eat deals are basically a challenge, you lose if the restaurant still makes money off of you
you gotta win whenever you have the chance at an all-you-can-eat
health be damned
raven hearth
Streaming service sites are also in that category. Say, netflix. Are you really going to watch enough Netflix EVERY month for your subscription to be worth it? Maybe
sweet canyon
During COVID ofc
raven hearth
Truth. haha
faint radish
well I think that was to be expected.
shut vine
Of course.
raven hearth
#3. Doubt he is disallowed from using that account ^. As an official government account. I don't think they would ban that...
faint radish
oh wait, its gone
raven hearth
oh wow
sweet canyon
And it's gone
raven hearth
Well. The tweet did
sweet canyon
He basically said he's going to make his own platform
faint radish
yeah, I don't think perm banning him was a good idea. I don't like the precedent it sets, twitter can do whatever they want ofc, but not a fan of their decision.
I'm not sure its a good idea for big tech to wield that kind of control, I also don't know of a regulatory policy that wouldn't make things worse so...
shut vine
Yeah pretty much agree. Government shouldn't really control what twitter/facebook/etc do.
But their choice is probably not going to have the results they think it will.
faint radish
well you know, its possible the free market takes care of this, if twitter starts to go hard on censoring more stuff, then perhaps people will stop using the platform
shut vine
Yeah, that's how it's supposed to work.
tough cedar
i do find it conflicting about them banning him, but at the same time
he's radicalized them so much they tried to stage a coup
shut vine
The main issue I have with the ban is their direct explanation was very weak.
Though I don't have a legal issue with it, just a philosophical one.
Also realistically as pointed out by the other tweet, efforts to censor the ideas don't really have much positive affect.
loud flax
i wish there was a way here for honest inquiry involving those who supported the riots
shut vine
They're more likely to cause more disunity and cement the ideas of radical people.
What do you mean?
loud flax
well, a way for both sides to try to honestly search for the truth. The rioters obviously believed what they were going after was so true and it was impossible to be otherwise, and thought the election was being done fraudulently
shut vine
Oh yeah I agree.
loud flax
though idk if they couldu listen to reason at that point
tough cedar
the people who believe the election was stolen aren't willing to listen
shut vine
I don't think anyone is really willing to.
tough cedar
thats why this happened, they aren't willing to listen
loud flax
well
shut vine
People are convinced on both sides that their opinion is right, confirmation bias and all.
loud flax
i don't know if what i'm going to say is going to make much sense but I'm going to try. People who are at war with each other obviously have gone past the point of listening to each other, however have you heard of the Christmas truce of 1914?
raven hearth
A FB friend of mine also had their twitter "deleted" - presumably meaning suspended. But makes me wonder what they had tweeted out...
tough cedar
at this point trumps base is so far beyond listening to trump that even if trump had some magical 180 turn of heart he wouldn't be able to get his base to calm down
loud flax
while it stopped a war between nations for a bit of time, it at least means that people are capable of doing good things even if for awhile
raven hearth
We'll put it this way. They drove 20 hours to DC for Wednesday's rally. They deserve the ban - but doesn't help them PR wise...
(twitter)
tough cedar
they just figure anything that he says against them is either coded, or because he has to say those things
shut vine
Driving to a protest/rally doesn't warrant the ban.
loud flax
the ban just means you're labeling them one thing, and only one thing
that makes sense James
dusky raft
apple is also enforcing rules on apps that take a more hands off stance when it comes to moderating their platform
raven hearth
Well. I am sure they were saying big things on Twitter. Like I said, wish I knew what they said
shut vine
It's possible Chicken, would be a huge worry if they didn't say anything that should reasonably have had them banned. Wouldn't it?
clear maple
wonder how long to his kids are also banned
raven hearth
Oh yeah. Can ask them. But I want to read it, not their excuses on what they claim they said
I mean. I just opened FB. And another person has posted something containing the following.
For all of you who say you would have fought against the Nazis during World War 2, now's your chance to actually stand up for something. Your silence speaks volumes.
shut vine
or would that risk their account?
Technically probably would risk that account too, since we've seen coordinated behavior from Twitter, Facebook, Google, and Reddit lately.
loud flax
man
shut vine
They tend to take similar actions against the same person/link/etc.
dusky raft
in the long run, I dont think its smart for trump to be banned from twitter right now. I know he has always been at odds with the social media giants, but I think banning him are going to make things much worse.
loud flax
Trump is not Alex Jones, but he's being treated like that, although he's not that innocent here either
dusky raft
Now that people dont see his voice online, I think more crazy arguments are going to come out right and left.
foggy fern
Deplatforming does work to squash a movement, especially one built on lies and propaganda
There are always people joining and leaving such movements and if you can reduce the influx to below the outflow it'll die out
shut vine
Eh, evidence throughout history to the contrary.
dusky raft
yeah, removing said voice makes it worse, and I think when it comes to the left, its going to be a power vacuum on twitter
shut vine
Ideas only die out due to convincing people of why they are wrong via effectual discourse.
dusky raft
more radical ideas coming out of the people who were originally arguing with trump now dont have anything
tough cedar
ok, well, now he can't radicalize more people
because it's now more difficult for people to see the things he has to say
dusky raft
to be honest, plenty of those people who were rioting have been radical for years, its just the trump train pushed them even more.
either intentionally or not
tough cedar
antifa isn't a group
tough cedar
ok, well when antifa and blm stages a coup then we can ban them on twitter
because clearly their radicalization will have gone too far
shut vine
The premise was it would stop Trump radicalizing people.
So either your view is inconsistent, or they should be banned too.
tough cedar
is antifa and blm radicalizing people?
dusky raft
yes
shut vine
I don't know, is murdering people while rioting radical?
opaque prairie
I think itâs also meant to prevent trump organizing stuff, he did literally tweet about the 6th
dusky raft
blm has this very distorted world view, and is a very marxist organization
shut vine
Or would that be considered "normal".
tough cedar
i don't know, is it actually antifa and blm doing those things?
dusky raft
I dont know about burning down DC, but they have fucked cities over in the summer.
and they dont like the current way of things either
loud flax
i agree with the idea that black lives matter, and understand why it's been chanted, but don't agree with the organization, it's pretty bad tbh
opaque prairie
Yeah but those werenât notably organized through Twitter, etc, they were more emergent than like, trump tweeting a date and then suddenly 1000s of people storm the capital on that date
foggy fern
Most of the people chanting Black Lives Matter don't know anything about the organization with the same name
It's just a short poignant thing to chant
elder portal
Why is it that the first response to "this DC thing sucks" is "well the left did it, too"?
Doesn't make either one okay at all
dusky raft
the right is anti-government?
elder portal
Also not a "left vs right" issue anyway
dusky raft
well
foggy fern
Hmm, poignant might not be the right word
dusky raft
its half correct
shut vine
That's not actually the response at all.
elder portal
That's not actually the response at all.
Tell that to r/conservative
elder portal
I peek in there from time to time
shut vine
Or 4chan if it's that
loud flax
so, how would you respond if i were to say
elder portal
It's a lot of misguided people, really
loud flax
that it doesn't matter the political ideology, it's a people problem?
foggy fern
Social media was a mistake
shut vine
Generally that's accurate.
elder portal
The irony of r/conservative is that, in order to post, respond, etc you need to be manually approved
It's beautiful
shut vine
Most political ideologies are fine, some just are more prone to issues. But people are realistically the issue at the end of the day.
elder portal
Something something "freedom of speech"
Something "censorship"
They're so close to being self aware
shut vine
Freedom of speech doesn't apply to the situation really.
elder portal
At least on that point
shut vine
Unless the government is preventing someone from saying something.
elder portal
Again, tell that to r/conservative
shut vine
Realistically Twitter/Facebook etc. not applying that as well shows they are out of touch with one of the key ideals of America but that's not necessarily 'wrong'.
foggy fern
shut vine
Part of one of the freedoms in America is that a business can decide who they serve.
elder portal
I was just saying that I find it ironic that they're all in on this censorship/free speech thing on a platform that they specifically don't allow outsiders to post in
shut vine
OH LOL
dusky raft
- considering civil rights laws, your options are limited on who you can accept/deny
shut vine
I missed that.
foggy fern
If they let you post on there their safe space would get invaded
foggy fern
They aren't wrong though, /r/conservative would turn in to /r/fuckthealtright or something unless the mods were really active
elder portal
I mean, I'm cool with letting them do whatever mod-wise. It's their platform (under Reddit) - just the irony isn't lost on me
They would definitely be calling censorship on subreddits they disagreed with doing the same thing
foggy fern
Just like on voat if you post that black people and jews are okay they dogpile your post until you have so much negative karma you can only post once every 15 minutes
shut vine
Yeah a lot of people are hypocritical about their ideas
foggy fern
So they can keep drowning you out until you give up
foggy fern
Was it ever even on the iOS store?
tough cedar
apple issued them a warning to start moderating or they're going to get the boot next
dusky raft
man, I cant wait till the oculus quest gets decoupled from facebook when rooting the thing...
foggy fern
Ah
foggy fern
Banning from Play Store doesn't stop you from installing it, pretty much every phone has allowed that since like 2012
Yeah, that
dusky raft
I think big tech is way to powerful to wield that much power to the point platforms get tossed out entirely
shut vine
Well you can, it's just harder
dusky raft
im going to wait till google removes them from their search
then their domain gets revoked
I still think banning social media sites is a horrible way of attempting to remove the problem
who knows how the problem is going to be dealt with, but censorship without force isnt effective
censorship with force is
tough cedar
kinda crazy seeing such a shift honestly lol
elder portal
basically a lot of people who were on the fence between "is it worth it to do this?" have jumped
maybe they wanted to all along, and maybe they're just following the flow
usually it's the former
people wanted to say something, and now they have the backing of Twitter/FB/Apple/Google/etc
sand shale
Did facebook actually ban him now?
foggy fern
Facebook already did
elder portal
did they?
foggy fern
They said it was until at least the 21st
foggy fern
They didn't say they'd let him come back after that
elder portal
not permanently
foggy fern
They just said that was the earliest he could get back in
elder portal
we'll see how it goes
raven hearth
To be fair. On the Social medias ousting him. It was after the full electoral process was completed. Really can't be accused with election interference - unlike trump himself.
foggy fern
sweet canyon
Apparently he just tried again from the team trump account and got banned again. Wasn't able to find what he posted.
Ahh he said the same thing
raven hearth
no....
foggy fern
Really?
sweet canyon
I may have been too fast to post that, I apologise. I'm looking for a 2nd source just to confirm.
I deleted for the time being
foggy fern
They killed that whole account
sweet canyon
Correct
foggy fern
sweet canyon
So I was right it was posted?
foggy fern
Looks that way
raven hearth
I meant "no" because it is quite horrible. Only solidifying the unlikeliness of the next 2 weeks getting any calmer.
restive seal
Well now they all know to go to Parler
Not via google play store! đĽł
sweet canyon
Ahh
faint radish
Idk, I think Twitter only increased the chance of more chaos by banning him.
foggy fern
It's not chaos with their logo next to it
faint radish
Yeah, true.
foggy fern
They, as employees and as a company, don't want to be associated with him and what he is doing
As a company they were probably willing to ride it out until the season finale on the 20th but their employees basically threatened to go on strike
foggy fern
Twitter
I'm just waiting for my TV and phone to light up like we're under nuclear attack and have a Trump tweet start scrolling by
Emergency Alert System is the only direct means of widespread communication he has left
Everything else would have to filter through the press, just like all previous Presidents
fast flame
Not sure if someone already mentioned this but they figured out that one death in the mob on Wednesday was a woman who got trampled during the rush.
foggy fern
So one was shot, one tasered himself to death, one was trampled, dunno about the fourth
And the cop was beat to death with a fire extinguisher
fast flame
Heart attack was the last one
Thereâs a sickening irony in the death of the woman who was trampled considering all of the âdonât tread on meâ gadsden flags đŹ
loud flax
well then, how does that make you think? everyone ever banned from here trying to evade their ban, i can only imagine what you think about president trump trying to evade his twitter ban đ
heh
fast flame
Just ip ban the White House 
fast flame
loud flax
hahahaha
fast flame
Also folks on Twitter spent a lot of today tracking down people in photos during the riots.
They found this guy
And his Pinterest account. Itâs worth a look: https://mobile.twitter.com/yooty/status/1347763017233043456
sweet canyon
foggy fern
Rats are fleeing the ship
Wait Parler was hosted on AWS?
I say was because according to what I'm reading they got cancelled 3 hours ago
foggy fern
Huh, guess maybe people just kept mixing up "overloaded" with dead
shut vine
Yeah probably
foggy fern
When I heard some white supremacist group funded by the Mercers wanted my SSN I stayed as far away as possible, I rely on others to screenshot the hilarious bits
foggy fern
The Mercers?
foggy fern
I thought the only relation there was Cambridge Analytica
Facebook claims they were improperly using Facebook data in ways that weren't authorized
Obama did it first but iirc CA was tricking people in to doing it
You used to be able to get permission from a user to slurp up their entire social graph
shut vine
Eh, they still had a long spanning business arrangement.
Using the data in ways not authorized does not make a damn of difference
Even if it was true
foggy fern
CA made one of those lame survey apps in Facebook and had it request that permission to get the results
near glen
https://twitter.com/Cloudy_Aperture/status/1347716845596536833?s=19
đ
Lmao
Do ppl know that the white house has a room full of ppl eager to report on anything the current president or his staff tells them?
blazing junco
Do ppl know that the white house has a room full of ppl eager to report on anyth...
Yeah, but none of them will replicate his writing style. Won't be as fun to see him break down
near glen
you can see him break down on camera!
near glen
I mean, she predicted everything đ
foggy fern
btw I finally got a clear answer on if tossing out votes on the 6th would have reduced the number needed to win: it depends
If the objection alleged the state failed to properly appoint electors (which I guess all of these were doing?) it would reduce the number needed to win but if they object to the validity of the votes cast by the electors they're still included in the total just not given to anyone
The objections were saying the states failed to follow their own election laws under the US Constitution because of who/how election procedures were modified (at least the non-batshit objections) so they were saying the electors were improperly appointed
At least according to a paper in Virginia Law Review
tough cedar
he was so happy to have that lectern
glossy sandal
Lol
tough cedar
is that the guy who chased the cop up 3 flights of stairs?
foggy fern
My uncle thought so when I showed it to him, not sure though
glossy sandal
In minnesota there are only 2 things, pigs and meth
near glen
Glad to see all those arrests making headlines
near glen
Next headlines have to be their multiple year long sentences
Show everyone what rule of law actually means
cosmic badge
The irony is there is a strong overlap between the rioters and the Law and Order / Blue Lives Matter crowd, lol. Surprise Pikachu face!
foggy fern
Eh, people who killed that cop definitely. The rest shouldn't get more than a year unless maybe if we discover there was some central organizer and not just all of these people hyping each other up on parler
near glen
I mean, i don't know american laws
cosmic badge
I'm guessing they'll get sentenced a year tops with most getting out within a few months on good behavior.
near glen
But I bet all of those broke multiple laws
foggy fern
The irony is there is a strong overlap between the rioters and the Law and Order...
There was at least one person swinging a blue lives matter flag at the police line
near glen
And in america they add up, right?
foggy fern
Like, as a weapon
cosmic badge
LOL
loud flax
in America you can get sentenced to multiple life terms, which I find is nuts haha
cosmic badge
Breaking and entering / trespassing would be the most common charge here, I'd guess.
foggy fern
And in america they add up, right?
Not always, it's up to the judge
cosmic badge
Maybe some vandalism / theft of property.
near glen
Resisting force?
foggy fern
If you're convicted in multiple jurisdictions at the end of one they'll ship you to the other
near glen
Assault?
cosmic badge
I don't think most of these people being arrested resisted in any meaningful way.
foggy fern
Multiple convictions in the same jurisdiction you can serve them consecutively or concurrently, it's up to the judge to determine that during sentencing
iirc the guy who was in Pelosi's chair and stole her stationary was only charged with 3 misdemeanors, at least for now
cosmic badge
I don't know if the FBI looking for them after-the-fact automatically makes them fugitives, either.
foggy fern
Polk County, IA thought so, they arrested the guy just because the FBI was looking for him
They weren't charging him with anything on their own and I can't see anything in the news suggesting the FBI requested they do it
They found him, arrested him, and contacted the FBI
cosmic badge
Would be in their best interest to turn themselves in, though.
Pretty disappointing that the terrorist who got killed at the capitol was from my city, San Diego đ
But not at all surprising
foggy fern
Apparently we have a name for these guys: coup clutz clan
cosmic badge
Oh boy lol
Has there been any consequences so far on the lax security at the Capitol?
foggy fern
Oh, apparently that refers to Trump and all the Senators and Representatives who went along with him
cosmic badge
How did one of the most supposedly secure places in the country end up being so easily breached?
foggy fern
The top three people have been fired
Well, forced to resign
And they're looking in to why some of them appeared to help the terrorists get in to the building or didn't stop them from breaking things
cosmic badge
Yeah imagine if the threat was more serious, if someone had actually managed to bring in more explosives and get in fatal proximity of Congressmembers.
foggy fern
Well, one woman did that...
Apparently it's not actually clear if that was Pence or Pelosi she was getting close to
glossy sandal
Has there been any consequences so far on the lax security at the Capitol?
Head of the capitol police resigned
cosmic badge
Oh I didn't realize they actually got that close
glossy sandal
Also apparently for defacing the statues inside the capitol those people can face up to 10 years in prison cuz of trumps thing he passed
foggy fern
Yeah, the woman who died was shot when she tried to climb through a window in to where they were keeping someone
Pence had his Secret Service detail and Pelosi has a similarly trained team from Capitol Police
sweet canyon
Pence was on the other side
foggy fern
Considering Hoyer, Schumer, and Pelosi were all in the same place I assume one of them would have mentioned the shooting or Gov Hogan would have heard it over the phone
So it was probably Pence
Huh, apparently the woman who was shot had 3 restraining orders against her, 2 of them after ramming another car multiple times during a high speed chase down the highway
sweet canyon
She was trained too
foggy fern
She was a 14 year air force vet, if that's what you mean
sweet canyon
Ya
foggy fern
One of the last things she retweeted https://i.imgur.com/YHV8XZg.png
glossy sandal
sweet canyon
At least she's good at math
glossy sandal
Is it confirmed that social is her now
faint radish
2 + 2 does indeed equal 4. NOT 5. đ
foggy fern
Proud Boys groups who she was there with are saying that was her and attacking people who say she was an antifa plant
Not sure if the authorities have released her name officially or not
glossy sandal
Lol they must be big mad if everyone is calling them antifa plants when they were out there rioting
faint radish
You know, I wouldnât be surprised if there was a couple plants there, but still majority werenât.
glossy sandal
Yeah there are more than likely plants in the capitol there gotta make it look nice inside
faint radish
No legit evidence of antifa plants as of yet tho.
tough cedar
anything that even associates themselves with antifa would never show up
or BLM for that matter
foggy fern
NYT says it was a Capitol Police plainsclothes officer who shot her
Not Secret Service
She then served in the Air Force Reserves and the Air National Guard. In the Guard, she was assigned to a unit based near Washington that is known as the âCapital Guardians,â because one of their primary missions is defending the city.
faint radish
Speaking of antifa, glad to see Portland mayor call out âradical antifaâ in his city thatâs being trashed almost nightly for months.
foggy fern
So she also knew how the security and such worked
glossy sandal
Looked like a guy in a suit did it idk if that counts as plainclothes
Secret service wear suits dont they
faint radish
Plainclothes just means no uniform:
Secret service have a uniformed division as well
foggy fern
They're almost always in a suit if they aren't in uniform
Or at least slacks and a tie
faint radish
The secret serviceâs primary mission is to prevent counterfeiting iirc. They also have protection divisions.
foggy fern
They being plainclothes officers
The Secret Service only has the protection details because at the time it was decided they were needed the federal government didn't have any other law enforcement and they didn't want to create a new one
glossy sandal
Oh man dlive
Havent heard that platform name since they paid pewdiepie shit tons to stream on it
foggy fern
It seems like Hawley has made himself the new Cruz or Paul, everyone else in the Senate hates him
https://www.cnn.com/2016/02/26/politics/lindsey-graham-ted-cruz-dinner/index.html for context on how they treat Cruz
shut vine
So the walk away movement is now being censored on Facebook.
shut vine
No legit evidence of antifa plants as of yet tho.
Elijah Schaffer claims that after his investigation of all the claims all but two are either suspect or completely debunked. He concludes it's intellectually dishonest to blame Antifa in this situation.
faint radish
Yeah, I figured.
foggy fern
suspended, banned, deleted, these are all used kind of interchangeably
They don't really delete anything, except maybe when GDPR says they have to or as a part of some bulk cleanup task
clear maple
Apple removed Parler
loud flax
foggy fern
I have no idea what that screenshot is supposed to be showing me
loud flax
the 50,145 times that page has been saved
sand shale
yea but.. what about it?
sweet canyon
tough cedar
He added that âmanyâ were competing for Parlerâs business, and accused Amazon, Google, and Apple of a coordinated attack to kill competition. âWe were too successful too fast, Matze wrote. âYou can expect the war on competition and free speech to continue, but donât count us out.â
too many layers
shy gulch
you guys think gyms should remain closed if precautions are met?
i.e. social distancing, and masks and so forth.
foggy fern
Depends on how bad the spread is in the area
shy gulch
is there even a definition for an "essential" at this point?
foggy fern
None of these mitigations are perfect so if things are bad enough in an area any activity like that is going to be high risk just because so many people can spread it
Pretty sure that's things like infrastructure, construction, grocery, medicine, etc
Gotta keep the phones working, the lights on, the people fed, the roads passable
shy gulch
True.
Over here in Canada alcohol is sold and distributed in a private manner, LCBO, and The Beer Store which is still somehow considered essential.
foggy fern
Keeps people content and alcohol withdrawl is shitty for the addicts
Liquor store is no more risky than a gas station or grocery store, you're in and out
restive seal
Yeah, alcohol is medically essential (no joke)
shy gulch
That would be the preferred method yeah
I could see outdoor gyms coming as a possible covid business 
Surely those can't get shutdown?
foggy fern
Not sure if we ever got any better data on how long sars-cov-2 lasts on various surfaces in various conditions and the likelihood of spread via contact
California banned outdoor dining because it was still encouraging people to meet up with people they don't live with
Outdoor gym would have the same problem, if things are bad enough
shy gulch
If they're spread apart and sanitized with masks their shouldn't be as much conflict, no?
foggy fern
Might be less of a problem with a gym assuming good spacing of equipment and enforcement of separation, dining you're sitting at a table together
shy gulch
whilst not wearing masks
foggy fern
Right
Although how many people keep a mask on while working out?
Depending on the workout they'd probably just fall off unless it was a gaiter
foggy fern
I dunno if they're making special gaiters now but the ones for skiing were found to be worse for transmission than not wearing a mask
shy gulch
Do we deem schools essential?
foggy fern
The material was just the wrong size, it was small enough to break up droplets which let them linger in the air longer but big enough to let a lot of air pressure through