this one's gonna have a name
#politics
arctic tangle
ngl, South Park has thoroughly ruined "integrity" for me :P
drifting arch
wat
stiff terrace
hell yeah Joe is coming for him
Gimme the tldr
foggy fern
Wow the craziness just keeps going
Now they think Trump's video telling people to go home was meant to be official notice under the Insurrection Act so he can use the military to arrest the swamp and doing so will obviously mean he stays President for 4 more years for... reasons
drifting arch
Gimme the tldr
he called out the fact that trump basically acted as if he owned judicial wing and was blown away that "his" judges and "his" AG acted with integrity against his position
drifting arch
Now they think Trump's video telling people to go home was meant to be official ...
yeah saw that, i was like 
wait, arrest the "swamp"?
tough cedar
no no
foggy fern
It doesn't mean the "protesters", it means Congress
tough cedar
the congress would get arrested
foggy fern
And Pence and etc
tough cedar
congress is the swamp
faint radish
Is there any evidence for that? Other than he made a video?
drifting arch
so the "insurrection" is the legal process of certifying the electoral votes/
foggy fern
No, it's nutbar Qanon types trying to come up with another way this isn't over
foggy fern
so the "insurrection" is the legal process of certifying the electoral votes/
Exactly
drifting arch
yikes
faint radish
Oh. I see ok. I mean conspiracy people gonna do conspiracy things.
Kinda similar to the one where the FEMA director gets 100% control over the government if x happens or something. I’ve heard that one before.
foggy fern
Jade Helm
Pelosi and Schumer are both openly declaring Pence and the Cabinet should invoke the 25th
They're both talking to press right now about it
faint radish
I initially thought that was a good idea yesterday, but now... I’m not so sure.
It’s just gonna rile up the crazies again.
If this happened a month ago, maybe. But it’s so close to being over.
Trump said he’ll participate in the transfer of power
tough cedar
i mean you could say any action against them would rile them up...
faint radish
Yes you could. But it’s gonna end in 13 days anyway. I don’t see a reason to take another unprecedented step to removing someone. Just let it happen on the 20th.
Can’t trump just put himself back in via 25 anyways?
I think you need 2/3 of house + senate to finalize 25th anyways.
Which you’d probably get
foggy fern
Yeah but it's not clear who has what powers while that is all going on
faint radish
Yeah, it’s a whole bunch of unprecedented stuff that I don’t think is necessary to go through rn.
If they do 25, and it gets messy, it’ll only weaken the US further. Not a goal of the Biden administration.
So I think the safer bet is to do nothing.
foggy fern
They just had the President and his people essentially lead an attack on Congress, they're lashing out
faint radish
No I get why they are calling for it.
I was just giving my rationale for why I don’t think it’s a good idea
foggy fern
Trying to do anything they can to prevent him from being able to do it again or escalate
faint radish
Pence probably hates the president right now, and if he doesn’t, he’s the most devout Christian I’ve ever seen.
Pence probably hates the president right now, and if he doesn’t, he’s the most devout Christian I’ve ever seen.
foggy fern
Oh yeah, an attack on Congress + Pence 😛
faint radish
I mean trump called him a traitor essentially while he and the mob were in the building
I’d be furious.
foggy fern
Mo Brooks and Rudy Guiliani and Trump and a few others riled up the crowd (Guiliani even talked about it like a battle was about to start) and directed them from the Washington Monument to the Capitol
Then while they were breaking into the building Trump was egging them on
restive seal
Yes you could. But it’s gonna end in 13 days anyway. I don’t see a reason to tak...
That's 13 days in which the president could go even wilder in his continued escalations.
foggy fern
Mo Brooks, the absolute genius, got the mob going and then went and joined the group the mob was coming to attack
faint radish
Trump said last night he’s committed to the transfer of power even though he thinks it’s wrong.
foggy fern
"Trump" said that 😛
tough cedar
the latter part of his statement cancels out the former
faint radish
I think the possible negative effects of 25 outweigh the possible negative effects of 13 more days.
tough cedar
i personally don't, but i also don't think they'll actually invoke the 25th
faint radish
Trump lost a lot of credibility yesterday among his own supporters. The first cabinet member resigned today, I’m sure more will follow.
I’m surprised pence hasn’t resigned himself.
glossy sandal
That would be a nice cherry on top
foggy fern
If Pence resigns he can't 25th Trump 😛
true ruin
I think they should at least try to stop him with this 25th article. He is goibg mad. He was never pretty smart, but he is extremely dangerous
foggy fern
A reporter actually asked Pelosi if she thought the Cabinet should stay so they could 25th instead of resigning in protest
true ruin
On every day he could split america more
foggy fern
She also said they don't do it she is going to impeach Trump again
faint radish
I think they should at least try to stop him with this 25th article. He is goibg...
Yeah, I was just saying going through the unprecedented step of using 25 could be worse than him just staying in for 13 more days.
Nobody likes uncertainty
foggy fern
So expect articles of impeachment tomorrow or Monday
drifting arch
Rep Omar was drawing them up yesterday
faint radish
Didn’t impeachment take a long ass time the first time?
drifting arch
immediately after the siege
torpid bear
They had to dig stuff up the first time. This time it’s all there already.
glossy sandal
Impeachment took forever cuz of ppl still licking trumps boot
tough cedar
i think impeachment is more likely than the 25th
true ruin
We will see. I think the main effect of a 25th would be the message, that they still value democrazy. (That is wrong isnt it? :)) . They probably wont get trump out of his chair, but its worth a try.
tough cedar
and would be a better show of resolve against what happened
drifting arch
i just want his ass held accountable in some way
faint radish
Impeachment would be better by far. This is what impeachment is for.
tough cedar
hmm actually maybe 25th would be a better show of strength
his supposed closest people all kicking him out
faint radish
Nah, impeachment’s better cause of what I said before. It’s been done before, 25th hasn’t.
true ruin
He is mad. Thats not even funny anymore. He is probably the world mighiest man and he does such a *******
true ruin
Impeachent takes way to long
faint radish
It doesn’t have to.
torpid bear
The idea behind the 25th is that it would be quick
faint radish
They vote on the rules
glossy sandal
New political party 2024
faint radish
The 25th still requires votes by congress
tough cedar
right, because it's never been done before and it'd come from people really close to him would make it an even bigger show of strength
true ruin
Do you think trump is really leaving the country? xD
tough cedar
he would have created the precedent
foggy fern
Scotland said he can't go there, dunno where else he'd leave the country for 😛
Well, there is one other place...
weary obsidian
im sure putin needs a new foot rest
glossy sandal
Facebook blocked it from being posted
ebon seal
lol
sand shale
After reloading discord I do again
glossy sandal
I reopened discord mobile and i see emote now
jagged flume
Discord has low tps.
foggy fern
weary obsidian
https://twitter.com/Luiseach/status/1347235892784746502 lol what a dumbass
sand shale
this feels like the first time he's gone to that camp
arctic tangle
Yeah, that dude got fired
foggy fern
House Sergeant at Arms is resigning and Pelosi has called for the Capitol Police Chief to resign
faint radish
to a coup
still not really sure this fits the definition
coup means seizure of power
they didnt sieze any power
foggy fern
They tried
It may have been a shit plan but the goal was to get Congress and/or Pence to declare Trump won
And they ended up storming the building while doing it
arctic tangle
coup means seizure of power
to an attempted coup
FTFY?
faint radish
ok sure attempted coup
foggy fern
Not only did they fire that guy they turned him in the FBI too
restive seal
And if he isn't impeached and removed, Trump may pardon these people.
drifting arch
foggy fern
I think people are mad at twitch
Was about to say it looks like they can't kill the streaming infrastructure then it died too
shut vine
I mean, you need a super majority in an impeachment senate trial.
icy oracle
I'm searching up what he said but I don't think I quite understand, someone care to explain for me what he did?
foggy fern
Maybe after the shitshow from yesterday they'll get 93 votes 😛
@icy oracle he was calling for people to retaliate for the woman that was shot for trying to rush the room Pence was in
shut vine
They will not even try.
icy oracle
Ah ok idk much since I'm from UK
shut vine
Basically they need 2/3rds in the house to expedite the fact finding portion before the vote lands in the House anyway.
glossy sandal
They got 2/3rds in the house last time didnt they
sweet canyon
Just catching up. So from what I understand, Pelosi said that either they invoke the 25th on him or they will impeach him?
foggy fern
Pretty much, yeah
weary obsidian
different house now though, dems lost seats
glossy sandal
Does anyone have a link to the video that showed the sole security guard trying to slow down the ppl pushing up the stairs in the capitol
I tried scrolling up for it but crashed my discord mobile lol
weary obsidian
you mean the guard who just kept backing up? i wouldnt call anything he did slowing down
weary obsidian
but he wasnt trying lol
glossy sandal
Not much you could do there though
weary obsidian
that was quite a valid scenario for drawing weapon
angry mob threatening his life
glossy sandal
Then get overran and the gun is now in the mobs hands
glossy sandal
Yea
weary obsidian
unless that was one of the crowds that went through a window
shut vine
They got 2/3rds in the house last time didnt they
They just need the 2/3rds to force an early vote, otherwise they have procedures they must follow before holding a vote
I'm pretty sure the actual vote only requires a simple majority in the house.
tough cedar
the guy who went up three flights of stairs i thought did good
i mean, best he could for a bunch of people in front of him and being the only one
probably wouldn't want to draw your weapon in that situation because there is so many of them they could rush you and then have your gun
weary obsidian
i guess yeah, though only that one front guy was the one really intimidating him
glossy sandal
Where is the video link for that
tough cedar
uhhh
shut vine
They're not allowed to fire into crowds anyway.
foggy fern
Secret Service has different rules I guess
foggy fern
They definitely fired in to a crowd
glossy sandal
Thanks
foggy fern
And only fired one shot which is weird for LEOs to do
vivid sentinel
👏 congratulations to google 👏
glossy sandal
The person that got shot was shot from the guard closer to the barricade was off to the side
shut vine
Yeah Secret Service have a lot of room as long as they are protecting the Pres/VP.
It's basically suicide to mess with them.
vivid sentinel
Finaly, i have very nearly fully seperated my networks API from the main website, and the session server from the api
they all run seperatley
pog
foggy fern
👏 congratulations to google 👏
TIL grepper
glossy sandal
foggy fern
New York will probably get him anyway but fuck that
sweet canyon
You can't pardon yourself, can you?
glossy sandal
No one really knows for sure
foggy fern
Probably not? No one has ever tried
sweet canyon
Well it sounds like this guy doesn't have much social media anymore.
faint radish
You can totally pardon yourself. Constitution doesn’t limit who you can pardon at all.
But yeah, he can only pardon himself for federal violations
sweet canyon
What would be funny is if he quits and lets Pence pardon him and then Pence doesn't pardon him.
faint radish
Pence hates him. Surprised he hasn’t resigned already.
Pence hates him. Surprised he hasn’t resigned already.
glossy sandal
Does pence hate him
faint radish
Trump practically encouraged violence against him while he was at the capital.
sweet canyon
Because he has to be there to take over if they take Trump out of office.
Well, he wants to be.
faint radish
He doesn’t have to be there
Why? It wouldn’t really matter.
There have been Acting Presidents before.
sweet canyon
Well if he resigns then Pelosi becomes president and then the satisfaction of Kamala might go down.
faint radish
Becomes Acting President
glossy sandal
Lol
brisk cradle
Impeach him, this time for real. No more excuses. https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1347226169792458756
Twitter
glossy sandal
Chief of the capitol police should resign or be removed
brisk cradle
That too.
near glen
At least it seems like FBI is actually tracking those idiots down
brisk cradle
Twitter
sand shale
brisk cradle
Twitter
brisk cradle
our incredible journey has only just begun
given the events of yesterday I don't even want to think about what that journey even is
brisk cradle
I really hope so. But I am cynical, I think he'll retire to Mar-a-Lago and hobnob with the far-right.
cosmic badge
The "demonstrators" ... yeah okay Trump. They should be correctly referred to as rioters or terrorists. In his video he still goes on about questioning the integrity of the election, the same rhetoric that led to this bullshit in the first place.
tough cedar
that was actually not an absolutely terrible message from him
probably the most presidential he's sounded in the 4 years lol
but yea
- demonstrators *
- wasn't actually him that deployed the national guard *
- our journey has just begun *
cosmic badge
I don't know the process behind deploying the national guard, but supposedly only the president has the authority to do so? Any truth to that? If so, maybe it's possible the 25th was already invoked behind closed doors?
tough cedar
that's what i'd heard too
only the president can, but they let pence do it...
maybe it was a situation where they just thought that the need outweighed the potential consequences
cosmic badge
I guess it'd make sense if Pence was basically acting in the capacity of the president, but supposedly under normal circumstances Pence wouldn't have the power to do it.
faint radish
maybe it was a situation where they just thought that the need outweighed the po...
You wanna talk about a coup... if that happened...
The 25th wouldn’t happen behind closed doors. It requires notification of congress.
cosmic badge
No doubt it would have to be formalized in Congress. I wonder if there's a limbo or something that would still give Pence a de-facto status, though.
You'd think so given the delicate nature of it.
faint radish
It doesn’t take effect until congress is notified.
Well, not congress. It says president pro tempore of senate and speaker of the house.
But trump can just turn around and say, nope. I’m able to do it.
cosmic badge
Right, which is Pence and Pelosi.
faint radish
Not pence
faint radish
The pres of the senate when pence isn’t there
cosmic badge
So only 2 people from both chambers have to even know about it
faint radish
But Trump can just sent a letter saying he is able to fulfill his duties.
Then Congress has to actually vote if the cabinet votes him out again.
cosmic badge
I guess this all depends on who can constitutionally/legally deploy the national guard.
If it's only POTUS, then the question is how did Pence have the authority?
faint radish
No clue. But I certainly don’t trust the media to get it right this quickly.
Books will be written and then a better picture will be known.
cosmic badge
Could be that too, Trump did say he deployed the National Guard.
faint radish
Yeah, I find it hard to listen to “first reports” from any media outlet. It’s all about clicks for them. Clickonomics.
cosmic badge
So either the media is lying or Trump is lying.
faint radish
Media might not be lying.
ebon seal
they're both lying
faint radish
They could just be wrong
If the media gets something wrong, there doesn’t have to be malice behind it. Sometimes there is, but it could just be flat out wrong. The media has been wrong with increasing frequency.
cosmic badge
True, media could just be reporting based on whatever information they have. The media's source is just "top officials" who undoubtedly want to remain anonymous. I believe strongly in the use of anonymous sources, but at the same time it's the media's job to vet these sources and they don't seem to have a good track record of that these days.
It's not the same quality as the Watergate days 😛
faint radish
I am so done with anonymous sources. It could literally be anyone and so many times the actual people involved have come out after and said no, it’s just wrong.
cosmic badge
Anonymous sources are incredibly important, you absolutely need them. But without reputation, they mean nothing.
Think Deep Throat.
faint radish
Yeah, and the reputation is trash. Hence why I’m disenchanted with them.
foggy fern
I think Pence requested the National Guard
cosmic badge
The media has in the past few years totally shattered their reputation making it harder to believe anonymous sources.
foggy fern
Pelosi did already too but it was notable that Pence was doing it
Did they need Trump's approval because this is DC?
Because my understanding was for the states the governor controls the National Guard
faint radish
Yeah, national guard is different in DC
The governor controls them, but the pres can nationalize them and take control
faint radish
Government will be back to normal (aka doing almost nothing) shortly.
cosmic badge
At least Trump finally conceded by acknowledging the incoming administration 😛
Only took a riot on the Capitol.
Schumer says the first priority of the new Senate will be $2000 stimulus checks. Without McConnell's interference, the bill will at least make it to the floor. but I wonder if it will actually pass.
Senate Republicans will actually be forced to vote (or abstain) this time. They can't just hide behind McConnell.
cosmic badge
Think what is true?
shy gulch
He seems so calm and suddle
His change of emotions and giving up was so out of nowhere
cosmic badge
Out of nowhere? lol
The results are now officially locked in.
He has no more legal recourse.
shy gulch
Are they imposing curfews over there in the states?
cosmic badge
No, they mostly can't.
shy gulch
over here in Toronto they were considering it and have already done it in Quebec
cosmic badge
Our governments don't have that much power, in general.
cosmic badge
Even states with the strictest handling of COVID are handing out slaps on the wrist for breaking any COVID "rules" they can't even really fine individuals for it.
It's actually a problem of having too much freedom lol
shy gulch
Yea
cosmic badge
It will quickly become a constitutional issue if they try to enforce COVID restrictions beyond what they're already doing.
shy gulch
We can safely assume that majority of society has either been in contact, or contracted COVID in some way shape or form
cosmic badge
The focus on COVID restrictions has mostly been on businesses and controlling it from there. Businesses can be fined, permits revoked etc. Individuals, not so much.
shy gulch
Yep
cosmic badge
You can't punish someone in America for walking outside their home.
shy gulch
It's also be kind of outrageous because somebody decides to go for a walk they're given a $500 fee they'd have to pay by further leaving their home once again at a different time with more contact.
cosmic badge
The problem with enforcing COVID restrictions on businesses is that the state and federal governments have done practically nothing to incentivize those businesses to obey the restrictions. Some businesses had to close, but received no financial support to do so.
shut vine
I don't know the process behind deploying the national guard, but supposedly onl...
Previously the media had stated only the Governor of a state has the authority to deploy the National Guard except for the Insurrection Act which allows the President to forcefully deploy them. Not sure how true that is.
However I remember reading 3 days ago they were already deployed.
mystic ermine
some state called in the national guard the day after trumps fed order expired
cosmic badge
Yeah, I mean more specifically deploying them to DC though.
The governors have to agree to the deployment but someone has to authorized deploying them into DC, I think only the pres can do that?
shut vine
I believe so too.
It's possible the deployment order was given by Trump via Pence to the Army/Pentagon.
I don't know what action the Secret Service took to protect Trump/Pence/Pelosi specifically.
cosmic badge
It's also be kind of outrageous because somebody decides to go for a walk they'r...
Canada is an example of doing it right, IMO. If you want people to stay home, fucking pay them so they don't have to worry about buying food, paying rent and bills.
Since this whole thing began, Americans have received a $1200 stimulus check last year and $600 this year. It's my understanding that Canadians have been receiving regular stimulus checks throughout the whole thing.
shy gulch
The only issue I have with Stimulus is the fear of fraud, mass-scale-fraud
Even then it's more money in the economy
shut vine
some state called in the national guard the day after trumps fed order expired
Think that was New York State.
shy gulch
As much as I hate taking handouts it's probably the right decision to be providing money to the individuals needing it especially if the governments responsible for the loss of your income lol
cosmic badge
The pros outweigh the cons, IMO. Some people will get money they don't need, but at the end of the day the important thing is that the people who do need the money are getting it and spending it.
shy gulch
The pros outweigh the cons, IMO. Some people will get money they don't need, but...
On the topic of money, what's your view on giga-wealth?
It's a weird model I thought of
cosmic badge
What wealth? lol
shy gulch
If your company makes a certain amount a year in profits; employee's have a bracket / division minimum-wage based on the amount
Paying more to the employee's at the expense of the profits at an appropriate rate / margin of course
It only puts more money into the economy would it not?
cosmic badge
Not sure really, but generally I'm of the opinion that in an ideal society, billionaires wouldn't really exist. If revenue was properly distributed to workers at the expense of slightly less profits, we'd all be better off.
I'm not saying you can't be rich or live a life of luxury as a result of your innovation or hard work.
I'm talking about gross wealth accumulation at the expense of screwing over workers.
cosmic badge
Just imagine how much money a few billion dollars is.
And that there are individuals who have accumulated this much wealth.
shy gulch
I feel like a revenue-based-minimum-wage is what it's called.
Make over $100b? all employee's get starting* $100k/yr wage
You could only imagine how much stronger the economy would get
mystic ermine
I have two views on it
- Companies need to be able to provide their workers a fair wage for a reasonable expectation
By that I mean, if you're 20 odd and working at a company, you should be given fair compensation and a livable wage, within expectation
"within expectation", means that if you're in your 30s flipping burgers, you done fucked up, and it's not a high paying job, so you're not gonna be expected to make bank on it,
Same sorta things for somebody just leaving high school and deciding what they wanna do, if you wanna go work for some gaurage or as a burger flipper, you gotta expect that you're not gonna have a job which is designed to put a fancy roof over your head
- Companies need money to innovate
Imagine where we'd be if elon didn't sell paypal and have all that cash to throw into things like tesla and spacex, people make risks on their huge amounts of cash which essentially throws out jobs to people
shy gulch
You do have a point about people flipping patties at 30, but what I feel like the issue is the money isn't moving around the economy, but as you mention innovation is a fair point.
mystic ermine
spreading the wealth sounds good, but, are people gonna step up and spread the risks?
I disagree with people hording massive amounts of cash
mystic ermine
The issue is how do you realistically get that money back into circularisation without impeding those who wanna innovate?
shy gulch
They should still have tons of leeway / freedom to innovate with providing workers a living wage no?
cosmic badge
Yeah, that is the question. At the same time I don't think that accumulating $80 billion in individual wealth is the driving force behind the innovation. These people could give away 90% of their wealth and still have enough money left to live countless lifetimes in unimaginable luxury for themselves and their families.
The scale of wealth being hoarded is just absolutely insane.
mystic ermine
The issue is is where do you draw the line, etc
How does that money get back into circularisation? taxes? what happens when the rich run out of assets to tax? etc
shy gulch
I feel like crime is driven by the lack-of money, selling and distributing narcotics to the homeless, robbing banks, people, killing others over money / gang related all this activity could be somewhat related back to the topic of "how much money", at least I believe.
cosmic badge
That's not even in dispute. There's no question that crime and poverty go hand-in-hand.
shy gulch
Imagine if the states homeless population was what Norway / Sweden is.
shy gulch
Of course there's exceptions, you're not tagging walls because you're poor
cosmic badge
Of course, not all crime is because of poverty, but poverty breeds more criminal intent.
shy gulch
If homeless people didn't exist, I can guarantee you mass-narcotics (majority of the drug trade would be gone)
Of course typicals buying some cocaine at parties sure.
But you won't have the same amounts in circulation 1/50th easily
cosmic badge
People who live in poverty have less to lose and more reasons to turn to crime out of desperation.
Poor neighborhoods tend to have higher criminal activity for a reason.
shy gulch
Incarcerating a homeless person cause he decided to rob a dude in a suit costs a lot more then finding him a job with rehab.
That's the easier option I guess?
shut vine
Incarceration is not about rehabilitation, you shouldn't really compare the two. It's about public safety, that's its primary goal.
Or should be
shy gulch
I thought the point of justice was to rehabilitate to become a serving member of society?
cosmic badge
One of the problems in the US is that incarceration is the answer to almost every situation where rehabilitation should be considered instead. Our system is incredibly punitive.
shut vine
That's social diversion, not incarceration.
cosmic badge
A crime leads to incarceration more than it leads to rehab.
Which isn't true in many other countries.
Scandinavia takes a much more rehabilitative approach to crimes, for example
shut vine
Incarceration is the step you take when someone is too dangerous (either due to recidivism, or egregious violent crime). That being said, the criminal justice system doesn't always apply that philosophy.
cosmic badge
Our criminal justice system always incarcerates the convicted.
With few exceptions.
shy gulch
An example of unreasonable incarceration would be sentencing for use / possession with no intent to distribute drugs
shut vine
Well, I think that's the case for most violent offenses. I think social diversion is more common than most think. But there are some serious flaws in America's criminal justice system either way.
shy gulch
A crime is usually affecting someone else, if the crime is on themselves which is usually capable of rehabilitation.
mystic ermine
Issue is that the criminal system is ran as a business
cosmic badge
Yes, our prison industry is almost entirely privately owned.
Its motive is to generate profits.
mystic ermine
The government being ran as a business and the prision system being a social aspect would be a masssiiive leap forward, imho
shut vine
I think decriminalization of drugs themselves would be a good move. Anyone committing crimes under the influence of drugs should have a more serious sentence.
Yeah I agree, the jail system should be state run completely.
mystic ermine
I mean, I think that the criminality of drugs does mark harm to communities than the actual drugs themselves
shut vine
Excluding maybe short term and non-violent crimes.
mystic ermine
many of the harmful side effects you often hear touted as to why drugs are bad are often as side-effects of the illegality of them and people trying to avoid jail time, e.g. kids distributing, etc
shy gulch
A repeat driving offender gets 10 years for 4 murders.
shut vine
Well the biggest issue with prohibition is it gives mobsters an easy avenue for money, additionally you can't reasonably police the use of the substance. It's wasting resources.
shy gulch
That's an example of a flawed system.
shut vine
It's better to dedicate those resources to tracking down people committing violent crimes.
mystic ermine
Well, yea, it makes it easier for mobsters to have a stream of cash as they're often able to get resources around "under the radar" to varying degrees as they have the connections and the people poor enough to risk everything for it under their feet
shut vine
How so?
mystic ermine
hm?
shut vine
Wondering how that's an example of a flawed system.
shy gulch
With any typical Justice System you never serve your provided full-sentence you'll usually come out earlier, or with bonds / parole but with this case, that's an exception;
He chose to operate a motor vehicle whilst intoxicated and ended up with 4 dead people, he'll be out earlier than 10 years.
shut vine
Also curious what the penalty for criminal negligence resulting in death is in Canada. That way I can better decide if I agree.
shy gulch
Don't forget, he's 34; he'll be out by 44, a young age and will probably have access to a car after his release
mystic ermine
We often joke over here in the UK that you'll get a longer sentence for attempted murder than you would for actual murder
shy gulch
If you chose to intoxicate yourself, do it appropriately and maturely; not by driving a 2 ton hunk of metal
shut vine
Well, there is a technical reason why that can often be the case.
Yeah I agree, if you use a substance like alcohol or other drugs and it results in you killing someone, you should have a more serious sentence than if you did so sober.
Same with any crime, in my opinion.
shy gulch
^ I also feel like a raised tax on any illusive substance could benefit society
shut vine
I disagree with that, I think it causes the same problems as prohibition.
cosmic badge
You want a reasonable tax, but nothing excessive.
shy gulch
People are gonna get it regardless
shut vine
Yeah.
mystic ermine
if it was purely designed for recreation, maybe
cosmic badge
Personally I think all drugs should be legal
shy gulch
^
cosmic badge
Let people choose what they put into their own bodies
It's all recreational, healthy or not, as far as I'm concerned
shut vine
You have to be very careful the tax is not excessive. It encourages criminal behavior.
cosmic badge
Just reasonably tax it and control the supply.
mystic ermine
But, given that people also use drugs for things like personal medical reasons, etc, I don't think it should be taxed in a way which keeps the underground circuits in play
cosmic badge
Eliminate the black market
shy gulch
You have to be very careful the tax is not excessive. It encourages criminal beh...
Fair point.
shut vine
Yep.
mystic ermine
Yea
shut vine
And regulate the behavior.
shy gulch
Education could also be a somewhat positive approach at a young age?
mystic ermine
many actual drug overdose issues last.I knew where more down to the shit they cut drugs with than the actual drug itself
and, yea, the "drugs are bad" approach is a failure and has time and time again proven to be a failure
cosmic badge
Education is absolutely important, yes
Take the tax money and dump it into better drug education
shut vine
I think a careful education around the dangers of these substances is important.
mystic ermine
If you're the type of person who's gonna try drugs in the first place, you're gonna likely do it even with the whole "drugs are bad, m'kay", and that's that ain't gonna help, you'd be more effective teaching how to use this stuff safely rather than letting them wing it
college students do shit you wouldn't be happy about your kids doing
I know when I have children, they're gonna do shit am not happy with, but, if I can get them to do it safely, I'd much rather do that than play the illusion off
cosmic badge
Yep, same with sex ed vs abstinence. Clearly sex ed is better
faint radish
Personally I think all drugs should be legal
see I'm all for this, as long as 0 tax dollars go for caring for people who take advantage of it
but that seems unlikely
you wanna screw up your body to no end? fine, but don't expect any help from the government. you dug your own grave
mystic ermine
I mean, I'm semi conflicted there
faint radish
that would have to include taxpayer-funded healthcare for overdoses
mystic ermine
THere should ofc be support on service
Like, if you're taking a drug which is actually harmful, support should be offered to provide alternative substances or access to programs which can help get you off
faint radish
Let people choose what they put into their own bodies
but I thought ^
mystic ermine
if they still wanna fuck their body up, they can
faint radish
ok, so what about the people who come back multiple times?
they take advantage of taxpayer funded "rehab", fall back to addition, they want it again
mystic ermine
I got no idea, but, there should be support programs available to people who want help on the end
I mean, I got no idea, at the end of the day, if they're trying, you gotta give them props for trying
As somebody who used to self harm, addiction is a real bitch which makes literally 0 sense
faint radish
well that's why legalizing all drugs is probably not a good idea. why lower the barrier to people screwing up their body?
when in the end, the taxpayer pays for it anyways
mystic ermine
I mean, there needs to be a balance between business and compassion
There defo should be means to warn people of the implications of drugs and the long term affects they have on people
But, many of the people hooked on these drugs made a stupid mistake and have regretted it ever since
faint radish
yes, a society without compassion is brutal, and a society without order is, well, chaos. its always a balance
mystic ermine
addition is a really complex issue and it's much too easy to blame people on relapsing than it is to accept that addiciton is complex and shit happens
If people wanna go fuck up their lives, let them, imho; But, at the same point, if it comes between helping somebody who was in a car crash vs somebody who's overdosing on drugs of their own accord, I know where my priority would be, and it sucks to say, but, there's that oddball balance of trying to find the best solution
Ideally, you find a way to phase out some of those horrific drugs from society through proper, safe means rather than relying on just locking up dealers and (ab)users of substances as all that does is create a perpetual cycle
faint radish
I have 0 issue with locking up drug dealers
locking up drug users on the other hand, isn't really a good solution
mystic ermine
Like, you hear horrific stories of dealers doing shit like abducting people to give them their first hit so they'll always be a customer and shit, and it's pretty hard to apply a blanket blame on users which you have such cases around and such
Removing the stigma of the law agenencies would allow a lot more people to raise their hand up and say "I need help"
as well as properly funding businesses and projects designed to help with these issues in the community rather than LAs billions in solving the homeless issue
faint radish
california is going to shit
LA is spending 130k per 8ft x 8ft shed for homeless people.
(I think I mentioned that yesterday)
mystic ermine
seems legit
sand shale
ah yes, because that means california is going to shit automatically
faint radish
the big cities are pretty disgusting
mystic ermine
They literally have a huuuuge as street pitched up with tents
faint radish
sand shale
not sure how that means it is going to shit, imo it doesn't ¯_(ツ)_/¯
mystic ermine
and, the people keep voting for the people who keep promising to solve the issues, who try to showcase all the work they're doing by throwing cash into renting shit like warehouses for often a minimum of double or even triple the going market rate
faint radish
san francisco had to hire a full time team to clean up human shit and needles...
shy gulch
didn't california have severe power outages?
faint radish
yeah, PG&E has horribly maintained the power grid
shy gulch
like they didn't have enough because of overuse
faint radish
so they have to turn off the power when it gets too windy
the "bullet train" project is a massive joke
HP & Oracle are both leaving silicon valley
shy gulch
Texas right?
mystic ermine
It's not really overuse but lack of maintenance of the infrastructure as well as bad decisions from the top
faint radish
in the summer, CA had to do rolling blackouts because they couldnt provide enough power to sustain the state
mystic ermine
e.g. removing nuclear/gas power stations, the state internconnects are massively outdated and nobody wants to touch them due to the amount of paperwork int he way, etc
faint radish
violent criminals get let out the next day in SF
mystic ermine
I think that now trumps lost they've actually changed course there
mystic ermine
apparently people are also upset that when you call the police in some of these states, it can often be hours before they can show up, if they can show up
cosmic badge
Police barely even respond to the homeless situation in California any more 😛
It's just so prevalent across the state and impossible to deal with
faint radish
A new report from the SFPD comparing crime stats from November 2019 to November 2020 shows a staggering 42% jump in burglaries citywide — and this includes the well documented trend in garage break-ins — and 34% uptick in car thefts.
cosmic badge
Really glad I'm leaving California end of this month, tbh
faint radish
42% increase in burglaries.... that is nuts
mystic ermine
it's nuts but really not all that surprising giving everything going on
portland for example has had a maaasssive cut back in police on the workforce, etc
faint radish
For instance, they cite a male suspect they arrested this week on suspicion of carjacking and attempted kidnapping of a female victim — and he is a violent felon who has been arrested 10 times in the last three years alone.
violent felon arrested 10 times in 3 years
like... how?
mystic ermine
There was some guy who used to file freedom of info requests every like month or something, and apparently in portland they stopped responding to info requesting how many officers where on duty, how many where taking time off, how many where due to retire in the next few months, etc
faint radish
ofc not all parts of CA are bad. my tiny city is doing just fine, and I have no desire to visit SF (which is 1.5 hrs away from me)
cosmic badge
The cities are really bad right now
faint radish
but the parts of CA that make it well known, its big cities, are not great
cosmic badge
My city is only like 200k pop but it's still pretty bad
But I'm really close to San Diego
faint radish
cost of a U-Haul from LA to Phoenix, AZ is 10x more expensive than the other way around
cosmic badge
San Diego and LA are particularly bad rn
faint radish
suggests how many people are leaving
CA ranks dead last in terms of people leaving the state (which means its the MOST leaving)
mystic ermine
The thing is that the decisions which make the state less attractive are the options which they keep picking to apply
faint radish
yeah, idk what they are thinking. 🤷♂️ lets just tax businesses more, not fix the homeless crisis, etc.
mystic ermine
and, especially with covid, many companies which preached for the past decade about how work from home was an unviable change, many companies have seen the lights and figured that they don't need to have a huge ass fancy office in a big fancy state
faint radish
texas is just foaming at the mouth for california businesses
cosmic badge
Affordable housing is another big issue
California has plenty of real estate in the cities to build more housing, but NIMBY's make it difficult
mystic ermine
They can literally move their business HQ to some small ass building in the middle of nowhere like texas and operate with 0 changes, save a ton of cash on space rental and have much better access to workers across the entire country
faint radish
yeah, if companies really do decide they don't need a centralized office space, real estate in silicon valley will lose lots of value
mystic ermine
Yea, there was a good documentry about that on reasontv I think it was
sand shale
I'd happily move to California if I had a job there
cosmic badge
You better have a good job lol
You can't comfortably live in a California city without one
mystic ermine
some guy wanted to turn his laundromat into a small set of flats, and basically the local group where against the build as it encouraged gentification, and it was blocked by officials of the state
cosmic badge
You'd otherwise be commuting 30-50 miles from somewhere with cheaper housing
Rent in a major city here like LA or SD is $2000/mo for a 1 bedroom
sand shale
I'm well aware
mystic ermine
Meanwhile, there is literally a constant cry for more housing due to the scarciety of homes in the area and the demand for people wanting to move in, so landlords literally make fucking bank on people moving in-state for high paying jobs and those born and raised in the area get priced out
faint radish
oh yeah stupid zoning issues, there's a classic story about a guy trying to open an ice cream shop. https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/heatherknight/article/Bid-to-open-S-F-ice-cream-shop-turns-into-a-15614815.php
sand shale
I had an interview back in June for a company in California, looked into things in the event the interview went further
cosmic badge
Now if you can work remotely, earning California wages and living in a state like Texas or Florida, you could live like a king and save a fuckload of money in the process.
faint radish
speaking of money, you know what I learned recently? those nordic countries that bernie likes to point to as examples of how democratic socialism can work, have more billionaires per-capita than the US.
cosmic badge
social democracy* but ultimately I wouldn't care about # of billionaires as long as those social safety nets exist for everyone
shut vine
Speaking of Bernie, pretty sure he's going to be popular with both parties for the next 2 years.
cosmic badge
If anything that's reassuring, that you can still be a billionaire under such a system with good social security.
shut vine
Same with King.
cosmic badge
I tend to agree, Bernie has been starting to resonate with the working class in general, both left and now right.
shut vine
I mean because he represents the gate to getting things passed in the Senate as well as King.
mystic ermine
Apparently much of the money in many of those countries is ollld af
shut vine
Senate is split 50-48-2 (Republican, Democrat, Independent)
mystic ermine
But, billionares aren't really the issue
faint radish
in the US, the estate tax is like criminally high
mystic ermine
The issue is sensible taxing and sensible spending
one of the many reasons I tend to be against high taxes is because they'll drive people away and often be totally misspent anyways
faint radish
the US is also up there in the rankings for corporate tax rates, among the highest
down at ~25 for personal income tax rates
cosmic badge
I think when Schumer introduces the next stimulus bill to the Senate floor, we'll see a lot of Republican support for it.
Before McConnell could just refuse to put it up to a vote and Republican senators could hide behind him, it'll be much harder now.
faint radish
yes, I am against any tax increase for any reason. It is the only tool the people have to try and hold the government back
cosmic badge
And their working class voters clearly want it.
mystic ermine
I think that a big thing is that people wanted the foreign spending cut back as well as bigger cheques
Not just bigger cheques
The dollar is being massively inflated
faint radish
its always funny how the goverment claims, if we don't levy this tax, itll be the firefighters, police, teachers that are affected the most. Like if you had less money, why would you cut the most important things?
mystic ermine
I think like 66% of money in circulation was printed this year?
oh, 22%, only 20 miles off
weary obsidian
Just saw trumps video, he totally was reading a script, cant believe he actually did that
shut vine
Did what specifically?
faint radish
if he had made that video yesterday, could've been a whole different ballgame
weary obsidian
Did his aids give give drugs to calm his ass down
cosmic badge
Conceded the election
faint radish
I thought it was pretty good
shut vine
Joe Biden gave him some of his I think.
weary obsidian
Him speaking mostly professionally off a script and not his usual unhinged free style speeches
sand shale
After that video he probably played darts, with the board having a picture of everyone he hates
:p
faint radish
wait, doesnt everyone do that.... 👀
mystic ermine
not seen it but he's generally been getting better slowly
weary obsidian
faint radish
uhoh, my name fits one of those....
sand shale
Wait
weary obsidian
What happened 3 hrs ago
sand shale
? aikar
shy gulch
Trump admitted his defeat with acceptance and peace.
sand shale
first I heard of that
raven hearth
Probably was nothing
weary obsidian
faint radish
how is that helpful, or how does that make anything better?
isn't that just the same as profiling?
you know 1 thing about a person, and you have already categorized them
mystic ermine
they want people out of the area
"& other park cars" implies they where just doing a swep to try and clear the area before the national guard came in or something kicked off or something dumb
The whole jumping to HE'S BLACK was 100% uncalled for in that statement.
faint radish
if someone pointed to a black man wearing a hoodie and said... black dude, hoodie, clearly about to commit a crime, people would be outraged.
and rightly so
shut vine
I suppose police should not aim to engage with a "black man" even if it could save his life?
Oh it got deleted I guess.
sand shale
lmao this totally feels like something he would do:
"no more twitter? ok, emergency system!"
loud flax
lol
mystic ermine
faint radish
awesome
loud flax
btw, if you want to call them terrorists for storming the capitol, at least treat them the same as foreign terrorists, no? where would you draw the line anyway? people who actually storm the building, as well as condoning that sort of thing?
mystic ermine
The scary part of the bee is that the articles are too close to reality that they're about as scary as they are funny
shut vine
Well several of them did things that could be considered terrorism. But so could many of the BLM and Antifa protesters. Can't lump all of them in the same boat though.
loud flax
ah wow
mystic ermine
"fieary but peaceful" standing in front of a building literally burning down to the ground
loud flax
i just started reading the description, and then looked at the link
faint radish
yeah, that's an all-time great cnn banner
shut vine
You can only prosecute individuals for terrorism in the US I believe.
mystic ermine
See, with the onion, you generally know it's total BS
With the bee, if you didn't know for a second...
every time I remember about the onion, I always remember the high speed bus video lol
faint radish
shut vine
True story.
mystic ermine
Grylls then entered the nursing home lobby and immediately began to drink his own urine. PMSL
mystic ermine
That's what scares me about things like the bee, is that it's so close to the percieved truth that it would be easy to take it as it is, which is why we need to raise trust in the media again, but, that's gonna be fun
sand shale
lol
faint radish
be a battery-powered railgun capable of firing 3 million rounds per minute. It will also feature a fingerprint sensor, Bluetooth capability, heat-seeking ammunition, and a chainsaw bayonet
bit of meta going on here...: https://babylonbee.com/news/the-babylon-bee-purchases-competing-satire-site-cnn-for-12-billion
faint radish
Oh btw, looks like pence said he won’t do 25
shut vine
Pretty sure no one who took their oath seriously would.
sand shale
Oh btw, looks like pence said he won’t do 25
source?
faint radish
But again, always the caveat, that it’s the media.
Not a direct statement from him.
shut vine
lol... they don't even link to the NY Times or Business Insider?
faint radish
Yeah, I had to go to a The Hill article to find links.
Business insider’s is paywalled
dusky raft
I think using the 25th is asking for trouble
shut vine
Invoking the 25th is a nightmare for anyone who decides to do it unless it's abundantly clear the President just can't execute his duties.
faint radish
Yeah, I’d much rather have it be impeachment, but idk if they’ll really go that route either. Especially after the video that Trump put out.
dusky raft
yeah
faint radish
I think trump’s done..
dusky raft
impeachment is out the window considering the timeframe
shut vine
It's two weeks, impeaching him now is just asking for more violence.
faint radish
Trump had a temper tantrum yesterday cause he somehow thought he could still win, but then the wakes up and realizes that yea, it’s over, and so it’ll be fine I think.
cosmic badge
at this point it makes the most sense to just wait out the remainder of his term. trump is falling out of favor and it leaves room for him to do more stupid stuff without major consequence with only a couple weeks left
faint radish
I could see him resigning himself maybe, idk.
shut vine
I could possibly see that if he just wants to get on with his life.
Congress should be focused on what comes next.
faint radish
He’ll be in lawsuits for the rest of his life, but he was already in them before so...
shut vine
We'll see, have a feeling they will all just go away.
We'll see, have a feeling they will all just go away.
cosmic badge
I doubt Biden's DoJ will go after Trump
It doesn't send a good message of unity lol
But you can bet NY will go after him
shut vine
Presidents and the amount of state secrets they probably know, likely gives them a hidden immunity.
I have a feeling NY will start proceedings and be quietly told to drop it. But I'm not entirely sure and could see it going either way.
cosmic badge
The federal government probably won't have any compelling way to get NY to drop it, maybe though.
shut vine
That's possible.
cosmic badge
NY maybe would use the opportunity to get something in return
shut vine
That's what I'd expect, or something regarding the states mismanagement of COVID19.
That being said, it's also very possible he will be fully prosecuted, just seems unlikely.
arctic tangle
Isn't there a kind of precedent of Presidents not going after past Presidents?
shut vine
I think in any event they'd have to have a significantly high amount of evidence beyond what is normally expected.
cosmic badge
It's expected that Biden's DoJ will not go after Trump, especially since his campaign was based on unity
But the federal government doesn't have much control over how states conduct their own criminal justice and legal process.
And NY has a hardon for prosecuting Trump
shut vine
Presidents are also immune from prosecution for things they do as President except in very specific circumstances (high treason).
cosmic badge
I don't think that's actually been thoroughly tested.
The only precedent for that is from Nixon's DoJ, I think?
Which came in the form of a memo.
cosmic badge
I don't think so.
shut vine
Ah it was a SCOTUS ruling.
cosmic badge
I don't know if it was Nixon's DoJ, but I do believe the idea that a president couldn't be prosecuted comes from the DoJ
cosmic badge
But effectively if the DoJ refuses to prosecute, they are effectively above the law.
They could commit murder and get away with it
cosmic badge
Well, impeach and convict
shut vine
Yeah.
loud flax
i suppose someone's privacy is thrown out the window if they commit an unlawful act
wonder how that works
i've never really thought about it much
weary obsidian
Yes police absolutely can post wanted posters lol
I meant they are now famous for all the wrong things
loud flax
haha
tough cedar
and they have at least 40 different people lol
foggy fern
Good chance Trump didn't approval the guard and we're all just going to ignore the illegality of them going anyway
Maryland offered to send them immediately, kept getting denied, out of nowhere 90 minutes later the Secretary of the Army (who also can't approve it) calls the governor's private cell phone to request he send in troops
Secretary of Defense is the one who is supposed to approve it
shut vine
sweet canyon
shut vine
National Guard was already deployed, just Capitol Hill Police and Metropolitan Police underestimated their needs.
foggy fern
That's DC Guard, as soon as Pelosi, Hoyer, McConnell, and Schumer were secreted away somewhere Hoyer called up the governor of Maryland (that's where he's from so had the number handy) and the Congressional leadership put in a request to him for police and military assistance, which they insisted they were authorized to do. He had sent the riot police just before he got the call if I understood him but when he went to his guard they said it had to go up the chain to SecDef and they just kept getting told no
Until out of nowhere outside the chain of command the Secretary of the Army calls the governor
McConnell may not have been in the room but I know he was one of the ones taken out of the chambers before things got crazy and the other three were in the same room
Twitter
Twitter
faint radish
I'm not sure simply being present is an issue... if you ya know, trashed stuff or attacked someone whole different story.
initially it was just a protest, nothing wrong w/that
I don't think the vast majority of people present showed up with the intention to break in
tough cedar
i heard that even being on the steps was trespassing
so even if you didn't go inside you probably still broke the law
tho fbi probably might not go after the people who didn't go inside
faint radish
well I'm referring to the tweet above. just says the guy participated in the protest
the protest didnt even start at the capital building
tough cedar
oh ok
sand shale
big oof https://twitter.com/Cogensia/status/1347340504934047747
Who is Cognesia?
faint radish
foggy fern
¯_(ツ)_/¯
faint radish
https://twitter.com/BreeNewsome/status/1347076167124340736
eh.... no, don't think so
why is it suddenly not an issue for some to attack people based on race if they are white?
I also don't understand how seeing color everywhere is a step forward from "not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character"
holy hell look at this craziness https://twitter.com/ChineseEmbinUS/status/1347247602094534658
the wording of that tweet is crazy
the minds of Uygur women in Xinjiang were emancipated
making them no longer baby-making machines
wtf is this wording
faint radish
...but its fox news, must be bad
naive rover
This is why democracy doesn't work with uneducated people
smoky hedge
foggy fern
near glen
fast flame
yeah a lot of capitol police are gonna get fired
faint radish
Yeah.... but apparently some people put there think you can’t be racist towards white people. I really don’t understand it.
foggy fern
For some reason /r/conservative thinks this means Musk is hating on Facebook for blocking and deleting things https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1347031803987599360
I read it as Facebook is a toxic concept and then not blocking and deleting things makes it worse
faint radish
musk has called out facebook so many times for just being bad.
yesterday he tweeted to "use Signal" after whatsapp announced they wouldn't let uses opt out of sharing their data with facebook
foggy fern
Some of that (like Purchases) is considered useful functionality so you can use the app to send money
But yikes
glossy sandal
Facebook would never spy on u /s
sand shale
I will never install an app from Facebook again
foggy fern
2016 was an El Nino year so you expect it to be warmer than normal, 2020 was not
Trump is back on Twitter, say he isn't going to the inauguration
faint radish
Yeah, just saw that.
sand shale
And why can't you? :p
glossy sandal
Twitter
near glen
facebook is the worst company on earth period
sure, every company is doing shitty shit, but doing shitty shit is facebooks business model
faint radish
I mean... I’m not a fan of google either but yeah, I’d put Facebook ahead of google.
But I’ll still be using google until (never) Apple releases a search engine, and tool suite.
foggy fern
Facebook is way worse than Google
Google provides useful services in exchange for what they do
sand shale
Sadly there is nothing comparable to what Google offers for Google Workspace
near glen
google uses your data to make their products better for you, google collecting my data has actual benefits for me
yeah
sand shale
Closest is Microsoft 365, but it is not as nice
near glen
facebook just collects your data to make money and show you ads
foggy fern
Facebook collection is worse anyway I think
Like, they collect more and use it in worse ways
near glen
and facebook also collects way more
like, facebook listens to your mic whenever they can
weary obsidian
I dont feel like googles trying to inflict pain on me in the way FB does
like FB just constantly finds ways to say "Fuck you"
this whatsapp change is a pretty bug fuck you
faint radish
If mark (satan) zuckerberg looked a little more sinister, more people would be off Facebook.
weary obsidian
difference between google and fb to me is i feel google uses data legitly to improve my experience, where as FB feels like they use my data against my best interests for their own gain
i dont receive any value in life from fb
to me it was meant to be a tool to communicate with close friends and family, but now with trump, i dont want to communicate with that family anyways
faint radish
Do you pay for any of googles services?
weary obsidian
no, havent had a need
mystic ermine
I sota use it to keep updated with a few people, but, these days, I find myself using it less and less
sand shale
The only reason I have a Facebook account is so I can use my Oculus Rift
I pay Google for Google Workspace
faint radish
If you aren’t paying, you are the product.
mystic ermine
Like, with google, I can sorta write it off as I, "I get something from it"
sand shale
and like I said,
mystic ermine
Like, being able to shout "okay google, turn the light off"
sand shale
[08:19] kashike: Sadly there is nothing comparable to what Google offers for Google Workspace
[08:19] kashike: Closest is Microsoft 365, but it is not as nice
near glen
I pay for google
faint radish
I get there is nothing comparable to it.
weary obsidian
im deeply invested into google like apple people are to apple
mystic ermine
huggles his mac
weary obsidian
yet we have FB over here putting both to shame in data access, to provide me nothing
i dont even see tailored ads on the internet from fb, it only tailors ads for THEIR site
sand shale
like
weary obsidian
only reason i havent shut my fb down is im sure ive SSO'd it for some services
i mainly log in once every blue moon and say fuck trump then close it
faint radish
Can’t you see what sites you have on your account?
weary obsidian
yeah but cba to care to do that
near glen
Ill not be accepting whatsapp new policy thing, I wait on the EU or germany to cancel that bullshit
we canceled it before
sand shale
The only reason I really pay for Google Workspace is so I can use my own domain, as well. I use Gmail, Google Drive/Docs, Google Calendar, Google Contacts, YouTube, Google Maps, Google Photos
weary obsidian
they have my data already, not getting anything new from me really
sand shale
I'd be up for using something else for most of that, the main thing is email w/ custom domain
weary obsidian
so leaving it there doesnt change much
sand shale
I pay $8/mo (per user, but only 1 user in this case) for Google Workspace, which gets me everything listed above plus more, with custom domain support
faint radish
holy hell look at this craziness https://twitter.com/ChineseEmbinUS/status/13472...
Imma re-up this since no one said anything earlier.
faint radish
Idk, I feel like a lot of people in the word haven’t woken up to the threat that is China.
Maybe it’s just big business at this point, but idk.
foggy fern
The problem with China is doing anything puts us in a Depression
Any meaningful change there is going to take just as many decades as it took to get in to this position
(that'd be 5 of them)
weary obsidian
wait that tweet was suppose to represent a threat?
foggy fern
It's a generational problem and we aren't good at solving those
weary obsidian
i thought you was referencing something as a good thing
faint radish
That tweet? It certainly doesn’t sound good.
faint radish
The minds were emancipated? Sounds like some re-education craziness
weary obsidian
i think you need to reread that
freeing from extremism and giving women more independence and equality is a good thing
near glen
Idk, I feel like a lot of people in the word haven’t woken up to the threat that...
china is a threat to their citizens, nobody lse really
foggy fern
When they say "reproductive health were promoted" they mean forcing sterilizations and the use of contraceptives
China is trying to buy the world
faint radish
Yeah, that’s what it sounds like
foggy fern
They're doing a better job at buying the world than the US is because we give the money to try to help them while China buys up all their infrastructure and then has them by the balls
faint radish
It’s pretty well documented by western journalists that there are re-education camps.
weary obsidian
i think yall are going a bit of extremism in your interpretation of that tweet
faint radish
The Mulan Disney movie was criticized for filming near one or smth.
foggy fern
mystic ermine
We're talking about a government which last I knew was apparently bussing Uygur around as slave labour
weary obsidian
"The changes were not caused by "forced sterilization" of the Uygur population, as repeatedly claimed by some Western scholars and politicians, it said."
foggy fern
At this point age of consent is trending because everyone is asking why it's trending
Apparently it's the name of a song or something
mystic ermine
foggy fern
Oh wow it's even worse than I thought it would be
faint radish
The article linked in the tweet doesn’t even link to this “report”.
But I’m gonna go with like, all media over some report from the Chinese government
As much as I distrust the media, I certainly distrust Chinese media like 500x more.
faint radish
china is a threat to their citizens, nobody lse really
While that may be true now, it certainly doesn’t have to be in the near future. China is building up their first expeditionary force, smth they’ve never had before.
near glen
wtf is a expeditionary force?
faint radish
A military that operates away from the homeland.
Hence “expedition”
Most countries don’t bother w/one, cause they don’t need it.
Away from the homeland for extended periods of time.
weary obsidian
yeah reading over the site in the tweet, not seeing anything negative here.
near glen
we tolerate america playing world police too 🤷
weary obsidian
we dont have to find a way to spin china=evil for anything about china
the tweet was about something genuinely good
its talking about old principles were that women believed their sole purpose in life was to produce babies by extremist religious views. and that by eradicating religious extremism, women are now free to make other choices
faint radish
It’s not so much the literal content of the tweet, it’s that it comes along with the fact that there are re-education camps, and reports of forced sterilization .
near glen
well, its nothing new that china hates the uygures
they are muslems
its about religion
as always
weary obsidian
k thats more like it, just your original tweet/article was nothing about this
faint radish
Well I assumed (wrongly apparently) that people knew about all this. So the tweet would be with some context
weary obsidian
well its no secret the chinese govt does shitty things yeah
foggy fern
It's a complicated thing to report on due to politics
faint radish
I think it’s beyond shitty tho... if the US locked up a whole population, people who called it shitty, would be labeled as soft on US humanitarian crimes.
foggy fern
Yeah.... if...
weary obsidian
just in the age of donald trump, seeing a positive article being spinned as "evidence" of extremist actions, just didnt seem right
near glen
the tweet also was from china aikar, lol
faint radish
I don’t think I called the tweet evidence of something, I was just shocked by the wording of the tweet, given the actual evidence from western journalists.
Oh did you miss that aikar? Was the official Twitter acct of the Chinese embassy in the US.
weary obsidian
let me rephrase, in that your preface to the link was so negative, i get what you meant now, but without the context, it was confusing
i wasnt really following anything on that topic, enough drama at home to worry about chinas abuse that were all familiar with
near glen
we got a rouge american president, that is banned from twitter and facebook but got nuclear codes
thats way more dangerours than chinsa
weary obsidian
hes back on twitter
foggy fern
I guess you could call what he wears rouge
weary obsidian
and lol yeah mini misspelling rogue 😛
Rouge (cosmetics), a cosmetic used to color the cheeks and emphasize the cheekbones
near glen
am trying to focus on this game 😄
weary obsidian
poor Rogue's in WoW man, so common there
but i guess if you wear red armor, A Rouge Rogue is applicable?
near glen
I never played wow 😄
foggy fern
Facebook’s own research revealed that 64 percent of the time a person joins an extremist Facebook Group, they do so because the platform recommended it. Facebook has also acknowledged that pages and groups associated with QAnon extremism had at least 3 million members, meaning Facebook helped radicalize 2 million people.
faint radish
well its possible the 2k checks arent gonna happen either. https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/533355-manchin-shoots-down-proposed-round-of-2k-checks-absolutely-not
have any R senators said they are pro-2k checks?
foggy fern
They were before, bet they vote against it now just to fuck with Schumer
faint radish
now this is interesting...
now this is interesting...
well interesting for several points.
disappointed as a conservative that more Rs aren't for removing him.
but what I think is more interesting, is 17% of Ds don't know/or think its inappropriate? and among independents, its pretty high too
more democrats think it would be inappropriate to remove, than voted for him right?
earnest prairie
now this is interesting...
now this is interesting...
source: me
restive seal
That' don't know percent may easily be folks in a bubble who don't know what's going on at all
foggy fern
Twitter
Only relevant to this channel because he's talking about Trump supporters
Specifically Congresspeople and in the Administration and such
Twitter
elder portal
brisk cradle
We just swapped Mitch McConnell for Joe Manchin 😐
foggy fern
I kept waiting for Steve King to humiliate me on the 6th, forgot the new Congress was already sworn in so he is gone
brisk cradle
@foggy fern I suppose it wouldn't be too much to confess that I live in Majorie Taylor Greene's congressional district. Uh oh.
I didn't vote for her, naturally, but she was not opposed.
foggy fern
I don't live in this county but this is from my state
dusky raft
biden isnt a socialist, but he does have some influence from socialists in his party
dusky raft
yeah, they need them government payments to keep them afloat
foggy fern
It's kind of communist, they own it but the government tells them what they can plant and when and bails them out when things don't work
dusky raft
yes
near glen
That's georgia the country, not georgia the state 😂
dusky raft
its not really a great system considering american health...
plus fucking corn for miles
brisk cradle
🇬🇪
Well, Republicans say they hate socialism... but they sure do love socialism in the form of money going to red states
dusky raft
@foggy fern I wouldnt mind an emergency fund for farmers if some disaster comes around and wipes out a lot of crops. But I dont think giving farmers money outright is good for the economy in general
foggy fern
Problem is we have too many farmers
dusky raft
that also
brisk cradle
Well, the fact we give farmers money in dramatically unequal amounts is oof
dusky raft
plus its mainly the big cash crops, corn, wheat, potatos
foggy fern
If we weren't managing the market they'd all grow whatever the best cash crop is and destroy that market, themselves, and their land
brisk cradle
^^
foggy fern
But we want to always have a surplus of food so we prop them up and manage the market so if needed we can kick it in to high gear and feed the world
brisk cradle
The Dust Bowl of the 1930s influenced a lot of US agricultural policies
And yes, the New Deals did too.
foggy fern
WW2 shortages and rationing too
dusky raft
its amazing to see how much crops were destroyed due to covid with the amount of surplus around
foggy fern
btw, best part is the guy who made that facebook post works in the school system so is taxpayer funded and part of a union
And his county is pretty much nothing but farmers
foggy fern
Also the revolutionary war was already red v blue and the red were the bad guys who lost
brisk cradle
dusky raft
would be nice if we can reduce spending in general and lower taxes even further for the middle/working class
stop giving money out to businesses and countries...
near glen
No need to reduce spending, can just increase tax in the rich
brisk cradle
would be nice if we reduced corporate welfare to $0, cut our military budget, and diverted the money into social security and universal health care
near glen
And like, make them actually pay taxes
Same with companies
Imagine amazon paying taxes
brisk cradle
Oh, and make the corporations actually pay tax. What a radical concept!
near glen
So much money for the gov to invest into education
dusky raft
@brisk cradle should tell them that hiding behind an irish parent company doesnt matter anymore
foggy fern
If we had more funding for schools they might stop blowing half their budget on administrative overhead to shake down corporations and alumni for funding
brisk cradle
TCJA was supposed to reduce that, but in fact, because of how shoddily the legislation was constructed, it didn't actually fix the problem
There is a lack of will to fix it, too.
foggy fern
Might have to just ban that kind of fundraising to really get rid of it though
dusky raft
we should take some of the money that colleges drain out of the system and put it into public education...
considering the amount that colleges make alone with grants, tuition, and alumni...
brisk cradle
Higher education is very valuable, and I don't think we need to cut off that money. But it should likely be spent better, the current system is definitely broken in many ways.
dusky raft
they can wait on building their new ugly cobblemonster of a science center with a swimming pool that rivals the nearby 5 star resort
higher education subjects should go into public education K-12 at a faster rate than what it is
hell, we should be scrapping traditional 9-12th with something entirely different.
earnest prairie
What’s wrong with science centers? Better money going towards that than sports which are less likely to give people a career.
brisk cradle
First off, we'd need to cut off private for-profit access to education funding in general. It's been demonstrated that they largely deliver a substandard education and has low accountability to taxpayers.
Seriously, they spend more on marketing than on education. Dead serious.
dusky raft
thats because private relied on public funding for the last 50+ years
and yes
they spend so much more on marketing
hell, they have the time to go to high schools
but I think there should be more money going into hybrid high school systems like VocTech
faint radish
Has education funding gone down recently? I don’t recall it doing so. Why is college getting more and more expensive?
brisk cradle
Yes, due to COVID-19 and more generally anti-spending Republicans continuing to cut funding in state budgets
faint radish
I’m not talking about this year, I’m talking over the past decade
dusky raft
its usually done at the state
brisk cradle
Yes.
dusky raft
federal just sees increases in spending
faint radish
As I’ve said a couple times now, the government has all the money it needs. It just sucks at using it. The amount of Medicare/Medicaid fraud is staggering.
foggy fern
That's about 15% of Medicare+Medicaid spending
faint radish
Which is massive?
foggy fern
If it's a valid number that's pretty big yeah, you could never cut all of it but I bet you could chop 80% of it off without a lot of work
The rest would probably cost more than you'd save to stop
faint radish
Ofc you’d never get it to 0, but hundreds of billions of dollars is worth spending some money to prevent that. And that was in 2014. I don’t see it being better today
foggy fern
This kind of thing is similar to the IRS, to a certain point increasing funding for it saves/earns you more money
But budget increases for "non-essential" things are hard to get
There isn't enough funding to go after these people are create systems that would help stop it
faint radish
The government works opposite from private industry here. If a government program is failing, it gets more money, if a private program is failing, it gets cut, new management, redesign, etc.