ever since r/donaldtrump was brought up I like to skim it on occasion to see what's being said
#politics
elder portal
imagine if Obama tried to pass this, or Biden
there would be riots
if you look at the downvoted comments you can see where the mindset is
basically, "anything Trump does is good"
plush crypt
thankfully it is (in theory) not possible to 100% enforce given the declaration of human rights exists
but we know how Trump thinks about that...
elder portal
it's not possible for executive orders to override the constitution
plush crypt
I don't have the slightest clue abt your constitution ^^
elder portal
lol
it's very difficult to change anything in it
and birthright is part of it
took many decades and a civil war to finally get rid of the last of racism in it
an executive order is something the president can pass in an afternoon if they want
(they don't, normally. It takes a few weeks)
imho the constitution should be looked at and re-written for a modern age, but that's a pretty extreme point of view over here
Trump supporters views on Confederate flags #429
elder portal
This is a president that clearly cares /s
Though I thought Putin congratulated Biden a few weeks ago?
Oh, huh, never mind
Apparently he refuses to, formally, until it's official
Okay. I guess.
shut vine
Roe v Wade isn't as impactful as many would think and is often very misunderstood. The ruling was primarily regarding unilateral bans over abortion, and that the interests to be considered by legislative were protecting mothers health and the life of the fetus.
The decision only really impacted directly outlawing abortions without exception.
I think it is also commonly inferred that it left the decision to the specifics around the two factors to states, so it would likely be argued that executive and federal legislative branches would not have the authority to infringe on state choices.
This would also impact federal/executive trying to make legislation around limits to the states legislative power around abortions too. Both of these would be contestable in SCOTUS though.
Also it is true that the UN charter of human rights has been interpreted as protecting abortions by their committee in 2018 I think.
The specific case in which the charter protects it according to their interpretation is when the mothers life is at risk i.e. medical expert would have to deem the pregnancy to likely result in the mothers death presumably.
plush crypt
kek
elder portal
Gee, I wonder if maybe Twitter doing fact-checks was maybe a good thing for the overall health of the population
Even just seeing the Trump subreddits I can see how this platform would get out of control
On the one hand, censorship bad. On the other, when people start threatening violence it might be time to step in
arctic tangle
We fund Black leaders acroos the US every time Trump tweets!
elder portal
Heh
elder portal
Trump, once again, making up his mind that one country is somehow screwing us over and cancelling contracts that affect far more
We didn't need those treaties with the other 34 countries anyway, I guess
/s
Last time I checked, 34 > 1
Seems like it's a good decision in 1 of 35 areas, and a bad decision in 34 of 35 areas
.. which has been the case in everything Trump has pulled out of so far
One step forward, ten steps back
Sometimes not even one step forward
All in the name of "America first"
Ultimately, all these decisions are screwing us over
This is Trump's promised land. Gaze upon it.
near glen
well, the world has learned that america isn't a reliable ally anymore
biden will have to try very hard to repair the reputation
elder portal
Biden will announce his cabinet on Tuesday
Which, reminder, is run by Trump's family and supporters right now
Because who better to do foreign relations than your kid with no prior experience or education in the subject?
elder portal
He runs the entire fucking country like someone runs a small startup
arctic tangle
Going to play devil's advocate here, I'm not interested in defending Trump, that guy is an utter douche and I feel nothing but joy that he's being ousted. When I first read the headline, I figured it was about commercial flights, that the US was pulling out of some freedom(s) of aviation or something. But reading the article (gasp, I know, I'm a unicorn) but it seems to be a treaty in which countries allow what are essentially spy planes to fly within their airspace as some trust exercise that we're not all preparing to wage war on each other. Now, if the allegations are true that Russia has been flouting the treaty themselves, then unless there's something I'm missing, it seems like the US has every right not to oblige something that isn't being reciprocated. After all, the treaty is likely about the US and the former Soviet Union.
elder portal
@arctic tangle my point on that article was that 35 nations are involved, including the U.S. and Russia. We have now pulled out of all 34 others, and have denied all 34 others of being involved with us
even if the allegations were true, that's 34 other countries that we just told to go fuck themselves
because we felt that Russia wasn't playing fair
instead of trying to fix it, we just threw up our hands and left
same with the Iran nuclear deal, same with WHO
same with the Paris accord
Trump has no interest in dealing with problems. He would much rather throw up his hands and pull out of things that are benefiting us far more than anything when he hears someone might possibly be screwing him in some small capacity
true or not
this is ultimately leading to us screwing ourselves out of far more than it's helping us
restive seal
restive seal
now we finally know
elder portal
the EC, technically, yadayada
but yes
I guarantee someone will well aktchually that website because EC
if anyone was wondering why we "shouldn't just let Trump cry about it until the end", this is why: https://i.imgur.com/CehXDer.png
the Biden transition is now stifled, lacking funding for the thing it's supposed to do
funding which the gov't gives the transition
which they now have to beg for
people have been saying this since the beginning, that Trump denying transition funding, access, etc is going to hurt Biden's transition to office greatly
it's going to set him back a lot from the get-go
fast flame
That’s their intention. They want to instill as much doubt in this next administration as possible so they can put in whatever candidate in 2024. Makes even more sense when you think about how Trump says he wants to run in 2024.
dusky raft
I have doubt in the biden administration because of all the things he wants to go back to
foggy fern
Tucker Carlson now says it's Biden who isn't telling anyone what his goals while being in office are
Even though it was Trump who couldn't explain what he wanted to do in his second term
He's probably talking about the packing the court question which he'll reference if someone calls him out but it seemed pretty clear Biden wouldn't answer that one because he didn't want to piss off the left
He otherwise has a pretty large party platform and campaign goals/promises
cosmic badge
I hate that it's being called "packing the court" ... if SCOTUS is expanded, it would be done legislatively through amending the The Judiciary Act. I personally think it should be done 😛
Republicans hardcore obstructed Obama's SCOTUS pick. It's shitty but it's not against procedure or the Constitution. In the same vein, it's within the rights of legislators to amend laws 😛
Republicans, through obstruction, drastically tilting the balance of SCOTUS is on them. Biden would just be restoring that balance.
elder portal
I can imagine that would come with its own issues
For example, imagine somehow McConnell finds a way to block yet more people after an expansion
Then there's just more Republican seats
cosmic badge
I agree there needs to be procedural changes too, so that such levels of obstruction are impractical.
elder portal
And that's only what I can think of, as a not-law-major
cosmic badge
Expanding SCOTUS is a band-aid, the root cause that led to this still neesds to be addressed. Which is Senate procedure.
elder portal
The major issue that leads to all of this is redmapping, followed closely by gerrymandering
If you want the root cause
elder portal
It has impact on votes
cosmic badge
Now, it's possible Senators are elected through vote suppression
Shit like that is likely how a lot of Republican senators are elected.
Seven counties in Georgia now have only one polling place, the report found.
Pretty disgusting.
Imagine if Democratic voters weren't targeted in this manner in Georgia. We'd have 2 Democratic senators representing Georgia.
If you look at how close elections are in some southern states, I can see it making a huge difference.
weary obsidian
Lmao
Yeah right buddy, get that nonsense out of here
You typod republican
I understand, shit happens
blazing junco
You typo'd both. Voter fraud happens in both sides of the equation, let's not act like it doesn't. Blaming only one side however is where things get muddy.
weary obsidian
Didn't talk about fraud
blazing junco
Ah, I see, I apologize
blazing junco
Voter suppression still happens in both sides, the republican party has more instances of going to the extreme to do so
plush crypt
I mean, let's be honest, there will still be some who suppress votes in both parties; the amount might obviously differ but..
blazing junco
Yeah.
weary obsidian
I can't recall any recent thing from the dems?
Got evidence of larger scale efforts from the dems?
plush crypt
Nope, and didn't say so either; I just want to point out there will inevitably be shitty people on both sides of the hall
blazing junco
I do, it's in Pennsylvania, in 2008.
Haven't heard of this before but here's an instance of it happening.
On Election Day 2008, at a polling station in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, two members of the New Black Panther Party (NBPP)—Minister King Samir Shabazz and Jerry Jackson—stood in front of the entrance to a polling station in uniforms that have been described as military or paramilitary.[70][71][72] Shabazz carried a billy club, and was reported to have pointed it at voters and shouted racial slurs,[73] including phrases such as "white devil" and "you're about to be ruled by the black man, cracker".[74] The incident drew the attention of police, who around 10:00 am, sent Shabazz away, in part because of his billy club. Jackson was allowed to stay because he was a certified poll watcher and was not accused of intimidation.[75][76] Stephen Robert Morse, upon arriving at the scene, filmed Shabazz.[77] The incident gained national attention after the video was uploaded to YouTube and went viral with over a million views.[78][79] The Philadelphia incident became known as the New Black Panther Party voter intimidation case.[80][81][82]
Yeah but can't hold a party responsible for rare rogue actions
That is your evidence?
blazing junco
Uh, no, it's an instance of it happening, actually.
weary obsidian
That's not progressive or dems lol
blazing junco
But it isn't recent so I guess it doesn't count.
I mean.. it does sound like they supported the democratic candidate of the time.
restive seal
That's a small-scale incident, not recent, and not a major party. There are multiple state-scale incidents by republicans just this election, can you name any matching from other parties?
Otherwise "both sides" falls apart pretty rapidly.
blazing junco
No, none recently. I unfortunately don't have knowledge of every individual county and state in the united states, if I did I'd probably have some more instances to mention, you don't always need an armed paramilitary-like group to consider it voter suppression.
restive seal
You don't need "knowledge of every individual county and state in the united states" to name republican acts, you can quickly find those because they're massive and widely reported. If there were actions by democrats at this scale they'd be easy to find too.
weary obsidian
That is the point, you don't see people complaining enough a left government act suppressed votes
blazing junco
I never said they do it to equal amounts. I literally said the republicans do it more and go to more extreme means to do so.
restive seal
You claimed "Voter suppression still happens in both sides" so please back this up in a way that shows it's remotely comparable.
blazing junco
It does. I just showed it, up there.
You reckon they wanted them to vote for the 2008 republican candidate or the democratic one?
restive seal
I'll quote myself from that message you replied to since you missed it
please back this up in a way that shows it's remotely comparable
weary obsidian
The biggest thing to tie to the left doing it is gerrymandering but I've not heard of the left doing it lately
blazing junco
I never was comparing the degree to which voter suppression is done. I was saying that both sides have instance of voter suppression, even if minor.
weary obsidian
Usually the left trying to end gerrymandering
restive seal
"Both sides do it but one side only has incredibly rare instances at a much smaller scale" is a very disingenuous approach to the discussion.
blazing junco
Why didn't you say that in the beginning, then? Maybe I didn't clarify myself, and if I didn't, I apologize.
Both sides do it. That's all I want to make clear here, the degree of extremity is one republicans own, however.
restive seal
It gives the glance-value statement that both sides do it, so you get people believing that simplistic statement, while requiring further effort to discover that it isn't at all comparable. Stuff like that is what leads to people believing both political parties act the same in this matter. Which they clearly don't.
blazing junco
I think anyone with common sense knows that they don't act the same in this matter, though.
There's a lot more reports on one than the other.
restive seal
anyone with common sense
points at 74 million votes for Trump
Not a safe assumption that everyone has critical thinking skills, or the time to think beyond the over-simplified "both sides" statement.
weary obsidian
Saying both sides do it hides the scale which would be like 0-10% left vs 90-100% right in percentage of incidents
blazing junco
You're right, the votes Trump got was appalling to be fair.
weary obsidian
Even gerrymandering I mentioned isn't really "suppression", just a lame tactic
restive seal
Think of all the people who you see/hear interviewed who make statements against their own interest, like people who are anti-welfare while collecting welfare they need to survive. Given a reason to not think further than simplistic propaganda ("welfare queens!", "war on christmas!", "murdering babies!"), a lot of people won't dig further.
glossy sandal
Idk why you point to the dems being the ones for that example you provided when in the example the people doing voter intimidation are 3rd party
blazing junco
@glossy sandal But they seemed to be doing it to support a democratic candidate though.
glossy sandal
That isn't the democratic party doing voter suppression
blazing junco
But it is an instance of somebody supporting the democratic party doing voter suppression
deft bronze
But thats not even close to the republicans(mostly trump, but everyone supports him these days) when they tried to shut down mail in voting during a pandemic
plush tapir
Well in that case then, n*zis are an example of someone supporting the Republican party
blazing junco
Uh, what? Trump wasn't alive then. Unless you mean Neo nazis, which, in overwhelming numbers, they do.
plush tapir
Yes that's what I mean, modern-day
glossy sandal
I think earlier they were talking about cases of the actual democratic or Republican parties doing voter suppression not an extremist group breaking the law
Which is to say if the democratic party supported them when they did it then yes that would be the case but idk where you're referencing from
blazing junco
I mean, they clearly suppressed the vote to help elect a democratic candidate, that's all I'm saying. There's likely many more cases, but, overwhelmingly, democratic voter suppression instances can't compare to republican voter suppression because republican voter suppression can get way more extreme.
elder portal
Unfortunately the extremists seem to be coming out of the woodwork
glossy sandal
Probably isn't helping it's being amplified by the government
elder portal
Think of all the people who you see/hear interviewed who make statements against...
Gotta admit, "war on Christmas" is new
deft bronze
whats the war on christmas?
elder portal
Propaganda, I would assume
restive seal
Hang on
egg, you don't know the war on christmas stuff? That's old! 😄
Here's a clip combination - http://www.cc.com/video-clips/mcexme/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-the-best-of-the-war-on-christmas
weary obsidian
Saying Happy Holidays is an insult to the right, they don't believe other religions deserve to be respected during the winter holidays
cosmic badge
Yeah some people do really get triggered by "Happy Holidays" here. The War on Christmas stuff was so stupid.
cosmic badge
GDPR is hard 😦
foggy fern
Congress stalling/blocking a vote on Obama's picks for judges and justices actually might be against the Constitution, btw
The language used in that section is shall which means he has to nominate them and the Senate has to vote on them
How long of a delay is too long? What kinds of delays are allowed? Ask the Supreme Court, I guess
glossy sandal
It's only against the constitution if the Democrats do it
foggy fern
Obama didn't want to be that guy though so didn't try to force the issue, he just gave them a stern talking to
cosmic badge
Too many people on both sides would see it as Biden trying to "pack the courts" so I doubt he'd force the issue either. I think it should be done, but I suspect there isn't enough support for that. The way Obama was blocked on judicial nominations was really dumb.
glossy sandal
Any attempt imo to fix anything related to voting or how the government works will always be peddled as evil by the other side and so thus the government will keep on course of its decline
near glen
GDPR is hard 😦
thats not gdpr
cosmic badge
Oh it's an actual content licensing thing? I just assumed GDPR, because many sites just don't bother with it and block EU access 😛
near glen
its "hur dur content not licenced outside of the US"
the site itself is accessible so it has to be licence
cosmic badge
Yep, that makes sense.
near glen
since they already tried to give me all the tracking
restive seal
They gotta track who they don't allow in! 😄
near glen
their site is a mess
they try to fire tag manager events
even tho tagmanager is blocked 😄
"TypeError: Cannot read property 'consentIsGiven' of undefined"
sucks to be you if I adblocked your consent manager 😄
kek
their content manager complains that chrome blocks 3rd party cookies
this is so sad
half the companies don't even alllow opt out
restive seal
Hope this is fake
restive seal
but having seen some very real posts on NextDoor I fear it isn't.
cosmic badge
I hope it's real 🙂
restive seal
fast flame
“NextDoor: 4chan for boomers”
elder portal
Here's a clip combination - http://www.cc.com/video-clips/mcexme/the-daily-show-...
ah, alright, that's suddenly familiar to me again
cobalt flower
I personally voted for myself
restive seal
“NextDoor: 4chan for boomers”
It's so fabulous. There was this post complaining about christmas lights being out early, followed by 50 replies, and several new posts because people couldn't figure out replies, accusing them of being an awful person and one amazing post threatening to send carolers to their house before thanksgiving.
cosmic badge
Haha. Now is a pretty decent time to get Christmas decorations out.
fast flame
It's so fabulous. There was this post complaining about christmas lights being o...
Haha my dad is a “community leader” or whatever the fuck it is and he sends me crazy shit that people say on there all the time.
restive seal
My community's "leaders" don't do anything useful. They fail to police the advertising rules so there is a ton of self-promotion.
fast flame
Isnt that what NextDoor is mostly for? Like putting your business out to locals? I could be misunderstanding, I do my best to stay away from it in general.
restive seal
Sure, but it has an advertising functionality and normal posts are supposed to be about helping neighbors or asking neighbors for help or whatever.
fast flame
I see. Yeah that's annoying. Whenever i go on there, which is seldom, i mostly see old people complaining that their neighbors stay up late in the pool which is usually pretty comedic.
restive seal
😄
elder portal
Screenshot (Nov 24, 2020 11:25:06 PM)
More from r/donaldtrump
Scrolling to the bottom of any post there, where the downvotes are, is where you get real conversation and debate
Sometimes it's reddit being reddit, but more often than not it's actually a decent debate
But of course it's all at the bottom
cosmic badge
lol
Well, not wrong in that in the US, you can't be forced to be vaccinated. You can be denied access to government or private services based on immunization status, such as schools, businesses, etc. The rest is pretty typical conspiracy theory stuff 😛
near glen
Isn't it like that in like every country?
Meanwhile in germany
Urg
Fuck that url
Don't emoji spam
cosmic badge
When Germany locks down, does your national government provide economic relief to those affected? Lockdowns are most effective if people are incentivized to stay home.
Here in the US, the biggest issue with state lockdowns is the federal government is doing nothing to help. If people obey state lockdown orders, they end up out of a job and no money to pay rent or buy food.
Also doesn't help that we have at-will employment in all 50 states. Meaning an employee can be terminated for just about any reason with few exceptions. Even if an employee is protected from being terminated due to COVID, an employer is still legally able to justify the termination based on any other reason.
smoky hedge
I’m a bit concerned re: vaccine atm as the Australian government is allowing businesses to not let people in or use their services without a vaccine - and they’ve not yet stated that it won’t apply for those who can’t have it
So I’ll quite possibly be unable to enter supermarkets etc for a while 🙃
Some people have said it likely won’t apply to those who can’t have it, some have said a few conditions will be exempt (so basically people who can’t have it but aren’t on the exempt list are screwed), and others have said that it still applies as the point is to prevent spread and those who can’t have the vaccine are still a vector
cosmic badge
I'd expect there to be some medical exemptions. Many people have legitimate reasons they can't vaccinate, surely Australia knows this 😛
smoky hedge
Australia isn’t really that good at acknowledging people with medical issues 🙂
cosmic badge
Ouch... so basically US-Lite
smoky hedge
From what I’ve read, option 2 is the most likely - which is gonna be a pain for me as while I’ve been told to not take any vaccine that triggers an immune response by my rheumatologist, I doubt my condition would be on an exemption list
cosmic badge
Hopefully worst case you can still get groceries and supplies delivered
near glen
When Germany locks down, does your national government provide economic relief t...
Oh yes, absolutely. We got multiple systems. For one, gov pays 80% of ppls wage. Ontop of that, we got "free" loans for companies, we did a tax cut, you can get cash to cover running costs, every family with kids got a few hundret euros for laptops, stuff like this
It's also a mix of national and state iirc
Or states come together and all do the same thing, idk, I don't remember
But yeah, our key benefit in germany is that states talk to each other and form compromises, no matter what kind of gov that state has
It's not easy but it works
National gov can't really order a lockdown, that's state territory
But gov can get all states together and make them do smth
That's merkel for you, she will lock everybody in and not let anybody out until there is a compromise
foggy fern
How do you know you have a medical issue that prevents getting the vaccine?
Isn't that what the (still ongoing) phase 3 trials are meant to determine?
near glen
There are plenty ppl where doctors say to just generally be careful with vaccines
undone raft
How do you know you have a medical issue that prevents getting the vaccine?
People who are immunocompromised or immunosuppressed are generally told not to get vaccinated and even to not be around people who have been recently vaccinated. This is because with live vaccines, their immune system will not be able to fight off any infection well.
smoky hedge
I’ve been told not to take any vaccines of the types that trigger immune responses, all the current main contender covid vaccines do
Where I live is rather sensible with vaccines in terms of taking them, so I’m not too worried about herd immunity being a problem, just moreso the whole concept of being barred from places that are necessary to go to
shut vine
From a logical standpoint they can't, all they can do is deny business from people who refuse to show proof.
smoky hedge
What do you mean?
shut vine
A private company has no legal right to your medical history, you would have to consent to give it to them.
They can theoretically say "you need to provide proof of x if you want to do business with us", like Airlines will likely do.
mystic ermine
#PapersPlease
shut vine
But hardly think individual businesses or chains will do that unless there is a specific need.
Airlines makes sense, going to hospital for elective surgery makes sense, can't think of any other specific cases.
Also considering the fines for businesses who don't secure medical information appropriately is up to 1 million per infringement (100 users information obtained via one hack is 100 infringements), I doubt many companies are going to go down that path.
smoky hedge
A private company has no legal right to your medical history, you would have to ...
The Australian government has explicitly allowed this, however
(and recommended, to an extent)
The idea is to make the vaccine as mandatory as possible, because a mandatory vaccine is illegal
shut vine
What did they allow?
smoky hedge
Companies to require customers to be vaccinated for covid before they can be served or enter
shut vine
Anyone with an ABN to obtain part of your medical records without permission or to compel you to hand them over? It's always been legal in Australia for a business to refuse your custom for any reason, as it should be. I highly doubt they're allowing companies access to the AIR without your explicit consent. If a company wants to refuse you entry unless you provide an immunization history statement that's fully within their rights, just as you refusing to give it is.
smoky hedge
It’s part of the attempt to make it as “mandatory as possible”
You’d have to provide proof, the government has provided proof cards in the past for things like this somewhat
Or they’d provide a service that allows quick lookup or whatever without storage
Airlines, aged care facilities, and childcare centres have already said they’ll require it. Dentists have said they won’t. Other places haven’t made up their mind, but many have said they’re strongly considering it (like supermarkets)
shut vine
Yeah, that's always been the case since the inception of the AIR and what the purpose of it was.
smoky hedge
It’s still a while away so not all companies have decided yet etc
shut vine
They can do so at their own peril, as they have always been legally allowed to do
smoky hedge
They’re being encouraged to do is, is more my point
And the government wants to facilitate a way to make it practical
My concern is over how the government decides to do that, as their current vaccine requirement programs are awful
shut vine
Well pretty sure I'd prefer that to another lockdown. Both major supermarkets have delivery now, and direct to boot.
smoky hedge
Eg, I know people who are ineligible for welfare programs because they can’t have vaccines for medical reasons that aren’t Aus gov approved
shut vine
Welfare programs like?
shut vine
Well if there are specific cases where they are ineligible for welfare programs, there has to be a specific reason why.
smoky hedge
The Australian government requires vaccinations to be eligible for some welfare programs
The exception list doesn’t allow for the condition they can’t have vaccines due to
So they can’t get the welfare program nor vaccines
shut vine
What? There is no approved vaccination in Australia. How can they require it if it doesn't exist?
smoky hedge
The Australian government is in general pretty awful towards chronic illnesses and many other medical conditions
This wasn’t covid specific, that was general vaccines
The covid one will also be included there though
shut vine
If SARS-CoV-2 is really as bad as it's made out to be, makes sense for a stricter emphasis for people to get vaccinated. People will just have to live with the inconveniences of that until things are under control on an international level based on the medical advice from the experts. That being said as I've said all along, the experts don't really agree, and several have changed their stances on various things over the course of this.
I don't see supermarkets realistically being able to enforce anything, and if they do there are plenty of reasonable methods to avoid going into one which I am currently doing.
If the government fiscally incentivizes supermarkets or companies where a direct issue may present itself (group travel companies like airlines and bus companies, hospitals), then I have an issue with it. If they're just encouraging it based on the medical advice, then meh - they've done much worse over this pandemic, based on the medical advice or not. Andrews and Berejiklian need to be ejected in particular.
smoky hedge
Like yes I agree covid is bad and measures need to be taken, my biggest annoyance here is how much the Australian government screws over people with medical issues. And this is just another case of it. I’m less concerned about conveniences and more concerned about other things.
Eg, there’s call to get Uber and taxis to require it - which would be horrible for people with medical conditions
shut vine
Transport makes a lot of sense to require it for, however I don't see anything with the search terms uber vaccine or uber vaccination
smoky hedge
There was mention of it by one of the federal MPs for taxis and ride sharing services to be included
shut vine
I would expect if government officials were calling for it, then there would be some news about it. Guessing it may be private citizens calling for it on social media networks.
broken raven
cosmic badge
I'm going to guess that whatever happens, "compulsory" vaccination is going to be met with a lot of resistance, enough that it may affect elections 😛
A lot of people are feeling uneasy about the idea of taking the vaccine.
shut vine
Well mRNA vaccines have in the past been abandoned by many companies due to the associated complications.
People that previously were at risk of complications may not be now, and people who previously were not at risk may be now. I don't believe there have been many countries that have done mass mRNA vaccinations.
cosmic badge
Not sure how good this study is, but just in Australia, the percent of "unsures" seems really high https://www.afr.com/policy/health-and-education/study-finds-high-resistance-in-australia-to-having-a-covid-vaccine-20201119-p56g5o
shut vine
The unsure would likely represent LESS people than the average number who don't get vaccinated for the flu.
I believe this year was the highest percentage in history at 66%
66% vaccinated that is
Last year 54% of people got vaccinated
If 66% got vaccinated (flu 2020) the number (59 definite) is a little low, but 87% of people either will get the vaccine or may get it.
smoky hedge
To be fair the flu vaccine takes forever to get
A friend was on the priority wait list for 2 months this year lol
cosmic badge
Not getting the flu vaccine vs not getting the COVID vaccine could possibly have very different consequences.
shut vine
I agree, but the number of people getting the flu vaccine this year is indicative still.
smoky hedge
Also idk I’ve never heard the flu vaccine be suggested, it’s always been a thing that you need to explicitly ask for from what I’ve seen
cosmic badge
The difference of course being that if you don't get the COVID vaccine, depending on how this plays out, you could effectively be shut out of society until you do. Flu vaccine is just "get it or don't, nobody cares"
shut vine
The jump from 54% to 66% shows peoples view
Oh yeah, well people put the fear of god into people about this virus, so it's expected. That ship has well and truly sailed now.
cosmic badge
The safety of flu vaccines has also been rigorously tested.
Which could explain why more people were willing to get it.
shut vine
People are going to not risk their business on someone who doesn't get the vaccine, not when they've been hurting for so long.
That's their prerogative too.
mystic ermine
flu vaccine is generally pushed towards those who are considered at-risk, most of the people not on the "you should get this" list, will be fine without it
shut vine
It's probably going to be a 3 to 8 years before people are comfortable again.
cosmic badge
I'm unsure which way businesses will lean, other than whatever is popular. Depends on how many people are actually willing to get it. Free market gonna do what it does.
shut vine
Yeah that's true, if a lot of people get it vs not many get it, it will affect business decision.
But in general businesses will do everything they can to avoid shutting their doors for 4 weeks.
smoky hedge
My hope is definitely that Australians mostly take the vaccine
I’m not confident where I live (Queensland) will, but it’s possible 😛
cosmic badge
Could end up with big businesses lobbying against a vaccine mandate.
shut vine
Highly doubt they'd try to mandate it in Australia. Current legislative scholars suggest the only way they could do it is at state level, and they'd have to individually issue the mandate to citizens, they can't just blanket issue mandates relating to rights of personal autonomy, specifically around health.
cosmic badge
They could mandate it for businesses, no?
As well as public services and employment, I assume.
But yes, I agree you can't force an individual to put something in their body that they don't want to.
shut vine
I mean, they can require the business employees to probably.
cosmic badge
So there's ways to mandate it without violating individual liberty.
shut vine
Actually they can, but the circumstances vary by state in Australia.
smoky hedge
The Aus gov’s way of incentivising it has always historically been to make it inconvenient not to
shut vine
Most it has to be in a state of emergency, but they can force an individual to take a vaccine.
smoky hedge
But yeah, how that’s done is up to the state unless it’s a federal program
shut vine
Yeah most countries operate like that.
cosmic badge
By force, as an example, they can detain you if you choose not to?
shut vine
Correct, philosophically speaking detainment is an act of physical violence. There are provisions in several several states to issue enforceable orders to have people take a prophylaxis (including vaccines).
Failure to comply would mean detainment until you do most likely.
cosmic badge
Very interesting.
shut vine
Or until a judge overrules the government.
Many countries have similar provisions that include either detainment or forced indefinite home isolation.
Most of which popped up post 2003 for obvious reasons
I believe Australia falls into that category, if so that'd increase the chance they'd start forcing people considering this is the second unique strain of SARS
cosmic badge
Unlucky for him, it's a matter of when, not if. Also, I hope he means that he'll be resigning upon the EC voting on Dec 14, ofc I assume he just meant that he'd concede.
Not that it matters either way. He'll be dragged out by force if need be, there's protocol for dealing with trespassers on WH grounds.
near glen
God some polticans are just pathetic.
In germany we have a information freedom act. Meaning, if gov or any other public organ has information, that the public has an interest in knowing, you as a citizen can use that act to get a copy (often need to pay a few euros for processing, copies, etc).
We then have a NGO, that basically allows you to do this very easily, it's called ask the gov. If a request is denied, they will often sue the gov (and win).
A city in germany has a list of "suspicious asylum seekers" and published it online, a big no-no data protection wise. Somebody then send a request to get a copy of the communication between the data protection officer of the state and the city, since that could reveal that the officer said no you can't but the mayor published anyways.
The request was not responded to in the timeframe set by the law, so the website automatically generated reminder. Two weeks after the deadline, the mayor of the city itself replied.
"Don't you have other hobbies?" In the subject, no text.
Pathetic
Not only pathetic but illegal ^^
mystic ermine
but let's trust government
near glen
Well, he will get sued into oblivion
That's why we have this system
If the public has an interest in knowing the content of that correspondence, and no other thing is rated higher than that, it will be published
That's what a judge will decide
"ask the gov" is still suing the gov over not publishing the glyphosat study for example
Gov/the company are saying "but mah copyright"
They also publish the tasks for the final exams in every state so that's nice
near glen
"ask the gov" is still suing the gov over not publishing the glyphosat study for...
Ah, different, they published the study but now gov is suing them
I don't even wanna know how much the gov will waste on this
Also, side note: the ministries getting sued are almost exclusively from the conservative party of baveria
weary obsidian
Yes let's post about useless metrics to try to feel better about THE ORANGE BABY LOST.
And lost big too
restive seal
So, uh. Trump just tweeted out the sinclair clip. Sinclair has been spreading his misinformation (like running Hunter stories, and I think they did the fake China one too - I only find out through a relative who believes this crap and only watches a sinclair affiliate) this whole time...
Just watched a few newsmax clips from his twitter. This is incredibly vitriolic and a bad sign for our country.
cosmic badge
Sinclair Broadcasting is huge, their affiliated and owned stations reach 40% of American households. Disturbing.
weary obsidian
Hey Trump supporters you ready for your tax increase Trump put on the poor? Well it's coming next year, from Trump not Biden. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/31/opinion/republicans-biden-taxes.html
I've mention this multiple times but sadly people never cared it was in there just cause it's money now
broken raven
Jeez, this channel is intense.
weary obsidian
Agent orange deserves an intense hate
fathom spindle
restive seal
PHILADELPHIA (AP) — President Donald Trump’s legal team suffered yet another defeat in court Friday as a federal appeals court in Philadelphia roundly rejected the campaign’s latest effort to challenge the state’s election results.
Trump’s lawyers vowed to appeal to the Supreme Court despite the judges’ assessment that the “campaign’s claims have no merit.”
“Free, fair elections are the lifeblood of our democracy. Charges of unfairness are serious. But calling an election unfair does not make it so. Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here,” 3rd Circuit Judge Stephanos Bibas, a Trump appointee, wrote for the three-judge panel, all appointed by Republican presidents.
Did you read the trump appointed judges statement there? Or are you just praying that the supreme court will ignore the absence of evidence of fraud and blindly rule that trump wins
Thanks for educating folks who didn't know. Now, are you going to reply to my questions? 😛
cosmic badge
None of this will make it to SCOTUS lol
Man I really hope he refuses to leave so we can watch him be dragged out 🙂
The meltdown on Dec 14 will be great.
At that point though, I expect he'll concede.
restive seal
I rather like the prediction he'll go to mar a lago for christmas and not come back.
cosmic badge
Hiding in another state won't save him from the coming legal troubles 😄
He'll have to leave the country for that.
It'll be fun to watch what he does either way.
Any bets on whether or not he'll be present at the inauguration?
Oh, juicy. How did I miss this: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/twitter-facebook-hand-over-potus-account-biden-january-20-n1248523
shut vine
The article about the tax cuts is actually pretty interesting. Since the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act passed in Dec 2017, enacted in 2018. The article itself highlights the taxes would be above 2019's tax rate, which had margins of 9,700 (10%) / 39,475 (12%) / 84,200 (22%). 2018 had 9,525 (10%) / 38,700 (12%) / 82,500 (22%). 2015 / 2016 / 2017 is 9,225 (10%) / 37,450 (15%) / 90,750 (25%). The years prior the tax rate was higher again.
You don't have to be an economist or mathematician to figure this out but it turns out 2027 tax rates are actually lower than 2018's but higher than 2019's. Seems like that article proves one thing, and it's not that the tax hike by Trump for the lower income earners.
That or we could ignore the facts, and just go by feelings
weary obsidian
Regardless of the specific percents, it's still an increase on the poor
shut vine
That being said, I'm pretty sure the 2027 end date is based on the idea that he'll probably win 2020, and Republicans will lose 2024.
Would probably give them ammunition
weary obsidian
Why was time limits put on the poor but wealthy goes permanent
weary obsidian
Vs today it's not?
shut vine
Correct
weary obsidian
That's my point
He sold people on I'm lowering your taxes, then takes it away from them
shut vine
Well he did lower taxes
On the poor
That's not an arguable point
The tax rates on the poor go up the further you go back until about uh
weary obsidian
Are you seriously missing the point
shut vine
It is the discussion
The tax rate on the poor will be lower than any point in Obama's presidency, true or false?
In fact Obama only increased the tax on the poor, true or false?
weary obsidian
That wasn't what I was even debating at all though, noones denying its lower now
The discussion was how slimey it is to use "I'm lowering your taxes, but only temporarily, except my cuts, I get to keep those perm"
shut vine
So are we saying that the taxes on the poor will be lower than before he took office in 2027 under his plan (which Biden is scrapping by the way, your tax rate will go immediately up to the Obama tax rates).
weary obsidian
Also, even if rates still stay lower than 2016, all of the deductions he took from the poor don't come bsck5
shut vine
But it will be higher than a specific point in time in his presidency?
weary obsidian
Plus as basket stated, taxes will be higher in 2027
Let's raise taxes on the most vulnerable woo
shut vine
As basket said, the taxes will always be lower in his plan than before his plan.
Unless Biden scraps it, as per the plan.
Then they will be higher.
shut vine
Biden in both debates said he'd scrap them. Straight from the horses mouth if you will.
weary obsidian
esident Trump and his congressional allies hoodwinked us. The law they passed initially lowered taxes for most Americans, but it built in automatic, stepped tax increases every two years that begin in 2021 and that by 2027 would affect nearly everyone but people at the top of the economic hierarchy. All taxpayer income groups with incomes of $75,000 and under — that’s about 65 percent of taxpayers — will face a higher tax rate in 2027 than in 2019.
shut vine
The article only claims higher than 2019, as I put the numbers out there, 2018 was lower than 2019
I cited the specific margins, that article did not, I'm already a more reliable source than the NYT
weary obsidian
Hmm OK I see it does say 2019
shut vine
If it was higher than 2018, why would they only claim 2019. The article looks intentionally misleading.
weary obsidian
It is, I'ts very biased
shut vine
They don't provide any sources, or specific numbers.
It's an opinion peace, so kinda makes sense.
They even clearly labelled it as such, which shows the editor actually isn't stupid.
I will have to read the bill to determine for certain, but it seems unlikely they'd say higher than 2019, if it was higher than 2016 / 2017 / 2018.
weary obsidian
Though aren't the standard deductions expiring too though
shut vine
It's hard to get marginal tax rates for the future.
I think those were introduced under his plan, but I think you're correct
weary obsidian
Expires 2025
shut vine
Realistically that can be renewed like any tax cut.
weary obsidian
I don't trust the dems to do anything smart
shut vine
Yeah that's why it's hard to say for certain.
Well, Biden has vehemently proclaimed he's removing all of Trumps tax cut changes.
That in itself will mean more taxes for the poor if true.
Well the federal tax margins have been increasing in percentage per bracket and decreasing in bracket cutoff for about 10-12 years.
prior to 2018
I can't find anything predating that
A lot of that is tied to economic factors that don't specifically have legislation behind them
New legislation anyway
foggy fern
AOC is streaming Among Us again
iirc car companies actually want those laws to stay because it encourages people to upsell to their electric models and helps ensure the company can meet their existing fleet performance requirements
If they sell 10k 108 eMPG electric cars it pulls up the average for their 16 MPG cars
They make more money and get to keep selling their really inefficient models (for now) so win all around for them
shut vine
They want them to stay because they're crony capitalists.
fast flame
Man it’s pretty cool that the Trump Administration is pretty much openly rooting for war with Iran now.
And I say that knowing that they’ve been poking the proverbial bear with Iran since January 20, 2017. They just aren’t even trying to hide it these days.
And all because Mike Pompeo (and I am not joking) believes that war with Iran is necessary for his personal salvation when the Rapture comes.
shut vine
Oh yea what's he done that will inevitably lead to war with Iran this time?
fast flame
Iran nuclear scientist Mohsen Fakhrizadeh assassinated, state media reports - CNN
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/27/middleeast/iran-top-nuclear-scientist-killed-intl/index.html
Allegedly a coordinated assassination between the US, Saudi Arabia, and Israel.
Iran apparently blames Israel
near glen
Why would you kill scientist.......
fast flame
And we know Netanyahu wouldn’t do something like this to start a war unless he had expendable military backing from the US.
near glen
Way to waste the potential of the human race
fast flame
Why would you kill scientist.......
They’re trying to force Iran to break the JCPOA aka the Iran nuclear deal
near glen
Doesn't trumpet think they broke it and thus the US broke the deal themselves?
fast flame
Well the US pulled out of the deal a few years ago in an attempt to undo anything and everything Obama did
fast flame
Basically what a lot of national security experts are hoping is that seeing as trump’s a lame duck, Iran will choose to hold off relations until Biden takes over. The analogy I saw used is they are willing to lose a piece if it means they can win the game in chess.
shut vine
Eh, he was killed in Tehran, saying the US took part is speculative at best. If this was the US it's hardly going to start a war if the intentional strike on Qassem Soleimani didn't.
If this event starts a war, it's more likely they killed him as a pretext for war than anything else.
The same people saying this could start a war are the same ones who said the Soleimani strike would.
near glen
It's speculation until the CIA publishes it's documents in a few years 😂
near glen
What makes a theory a conspiracy theory?
shut vine
A theory about an unexplained event that has a heavy covert element to it.
Can't be a conspiracy without the secrecy.
If the scientist was assassinated by bomb there'd be more credibility. Armed assailants in Tehran killing someone are likely to be apprehended and tortured until they give up information.
The attack would be more likely to be Ahwaz National Resistance, Islamic State, or Ansar Al-Furqan.
Most terrorist attacks in Iran are perpetrated by those groups.
fast flame
Calling it a conspiracy theory is a disservice. Pompeo, MBS, and Netanyahu met last week in Saudi Arabia. Less than a week later and an Iranian scientist is dead. All three of those have a heavy interest in a war with Iran. It’s hard to say that it’s just a coincidence.
shut vine
People use conspiracy theory in a "you're crazy" way, that's when it's a disservice to the term. This is textbook definition.
fast flame
Fair enough
shut vine
The elements of a conspiracy theory is an influential body is the alleged perp, the act was clandestine or covert in nature, no one is admitting anything, and the event is yet unexplained or the explanation is part of the theory.
fast flame
Yeah that makes sense
I’m so used to the QAnon type bullshit that “conspiracy theory” has a whole different meaning.
shut vine
Yeah it is used to dismiss peoples opinions typically, which is generally an uneducated thing to do.
The other factor that plays into it is the CIA has hardly been cooperative with the Trump administration.
The Iran officials are labelling it as a terrorist attack too, the main terrorist organizations operating in the area are more likely suspects regardless though.
It's possible he did order it, it's a fairly logical target. Iran hasn't really shown that it will do much in the instance of an attack against them by the US though.
near glen
Terrorist attack != Done by a terrorist organization
broken raven
Terrorist attack != Middle east
shut vine
There have been about three other instances of "Trump is going to start a war with Iran" since he took office, none of them end up that way.
fast flame
I actually doubt that this was in any way the idea of the Trump Admin.
I imagine it was an idea brought to them by Israel and it took little encouragement from Pompeo for Netanyahu to go through with it.
Like I said before, Netanyahu doesn’t start wars without disposable backing from the US military.
He fights wars to the last American, so to speak.
plush crypt
?kick @autumn lotus Spreading misinformation that has been proven false several times.
ah dyno cant read here, brilliant
plush crypt
i dont care who he supports, i care he spreads debunked misinformation
fast flame
Oh I’m not fighting it. Most things that he said were misconstrued or straight up false. It was justified.
drifting arch
mfw he says now way less tensions with NK now when literally just last year nuclear peace talks broke down?
plush crypt
ngl at times i wish i'd been against misinformation as a whole enough to kick him earlier.. but everyone deserves a chance until its proven false, im afraid
drifting arch
like, that was big news???
elder portal
the.. good(?) news is that Trump voters are disenfranchised to the election due to Trump's rhetoric so are unlikely to vote (for him) in a future election
I'm sure democratic campaigns will take advantage of that to de-mobilize the far-right base
plush crypt
there's just gonna be a new mysogynist (or however you spell it) to vote for
elder portal
many of them believe the election was wrought with fraud and don't want to vote any more
as is evidenced by reading far too much Twitter
so, uh.. I'm sort-of for people too stupid to vote, voting
elder portal
what else am I going to do at 2 AM while sitting at my internship otherwise doing nothing?
fast flame
elder portal
who needs forethought and planning when you have lies and belief?
if we wish hard enough the Secret may bestow us with gifts
(to be clear, I actually have nothing against "the Secret" so long as it doesn't cross the boundary of deceiving other people)
fast flame
Apparently that entire speech turned into nut jobs yelling crazy shit at her and expecting her to have a response
elder portal
yeah, basically the whole "your vote didn't count" thing is completely backfiring on them right now
and half of me is screaming "fucking, GOOD! Comeupance!"
I'm struggling between "everyone should have a voice" and "stupid people shouldn't have a voice"
we'd be doing them a knidness by not allowing them to dictate the future of the country they live in, honestly
but that line of thought only works if you have a neutral, magical device that can tell you who should vote and who shouldn't, and a magical method of enforcing that without compromise
anything else and, at best you have a deeply flawed system, and at worst a dystopian nightmare
so..
¯_(ツ)_/¯
it is a nice fantasy though
I disagree. I think it's better defined as two words: "cultural appropriation"
America was founded on those two words, and continues to run on those two words to this day
that's kinda what makes us great, though
many different people, cultures, and ideas. It manifests itself most obviously in cuisine, but affects all aspects of the U.S.
looks like Fox got put on the shit list, finally. Too many Democrats for his liking, I guess
despite the fact that Fox is heavily politically right, but hey whatever
also, lol, OANN.
oh, fuck, the POTUS just directed everyone watching him to read OANN. That just hit me.
that's going to take a long time to undo that damage..
fast flame
Almost as bad as posting Breitbart articles as reputable news posts
Like they aren’t a literal white supremacist hate group
elder portal
One America News Network
the name reminds me heavily of the whole "One China" thing
which is really just unfortunate naming, so I don't hold that against them much
the "news", on the other hand..
that's on them
their "news" is absolutely goddamned bonkers
rag-mag-level stuff, but catered at neo-nazis
conspiracy theories and false information everywhere
so, despite apparent coincidence, the "One China" thing kinda fits, at least tonally
fast flame
OANN is basically a glorified volksempfanger (cheap radios designed by nazis as a means to spread propaganda.) Spewing propaganda and falsehoods as a profession.
elder portal
there's probably better comparisons, but that seems like it fits
elder portal
I do try to avoid nazi comparisons, but OANN's target audience is very clearly neo-nazi groups, so I mean..
if the shoe fits
or at least part of their target audience
I don't care how small that target audience is, if someone asks you "who all are you aiming this article at" and you list 100 groups and "neo-nazi" is among those I don't see justification unless it's trying to convince them to not be actual, literal nazis
fast flame
OANN was also just banned from YouTube which is pretty funny
elder portal
yeah, banned for spreading COVID misinformation
fast flame
It wasn’t soon enough but you have to really work to get banned from Youtube
elder portal
I didn't see what exactly got them banned, but knowing OANN even mildly it's not surprising
elder portal
hm, yeah, vaccine != cure
and that's assuming they were even talking about a vaccine
which, hahaha
it's OANN. They definitely were not.
far more likely it was snake-oil (suppliments or something)
or some spiritual thing
elder portal
hey, if you want to pray to whatever god(s) you have, fuckin' go for it. Just do it while also wearing a mask, distancing, and getting your vaccine shots when they're stable
fast flame
Yeah someone I know encountered a person who refused to wear a mask because “ god would save them.” To each their own, but also you are piece of shit
Gif would save them
Dammit
elder portal
I still blow on my D20 before I roll them, I have absolutely no room to even try to "debunk" faith/religion/what-have-you
not that they could be "debunked" anyway
but, you know, science and faith are not mutually exclusive. I promise God will not send you to hell for wearing a mask for a year or two
or getting a shot
the God I was taught when I was a kid is pretty damned forgiving, and overall a very nice, open, and honest fella (at least these days)
sounds like someone who'd want you to not kill people
and someone you can and should definitely have a beer with
also iirc the pope wears a mask, and says to do so. So Catholics, at least, have no excuse
not that Catholocism is nearly as large as Christianity in the U.S., but I'm sure most hardcore Christians still listen to the pope
I'm not entirely sure where the divide is on that one, but I'm like 90% sure the pope is still the big man on top for Christianity as well
smoky hedge
Trump is somewhat of an isolationist, so being less active from a military perspective makes sense
plush crypt
and he made multiple middle east peace deals
This has been debunked several times in here already.
Trump has ended a precise 0 (zero) wars; that means, by definition, he has made 0 (zero) (successful) peace deals
near glen
Israel deals, deals with a country that isn't interested in peace that has been invading it's neighbors since forever 😂
plush crypt
I'm not looking to argue over what is and isn't a peace deal. Look up the agremeents you're mentioning; none of them involves a peace treaty.
restive seal
If by interesting you mean awful, yes I agree.
cosmic badge
Turns out quarantining is effective, more at 11.
Sounds like a disingenuous comparison.
near glen
Well, japan solved covid
elder portal
so, yesterday was this: https://i.imgur.com/8UlcLe3.png
today is this: https://i.imgur.com/FDyv0Tp.png
I don't quite understand, here
four tweets about a call he just did with Fox
a day after he told his base to stop watching it
😕
I'm starting to get the sense that newsmax is exactly the same as OANN
from newsmax: "what was the legal reason for stopping the vote on election night? There were no natural disasters [...] Were the machines broken?"
- They didn't?
- Trump and his base called for exactly that to happen with no legal precedent, on election night
unless they're talking about the night of, in which all of the counters went to bed because they're human and also need sleep?
this is from the video that Trump tweeted from newsmax yesterday
"more than half"
r/selfawarewolves here
if "more than half" wanted Biden to win because they voted for him..
theeeeeeennnnnn
follow the logic here with me..
fast flame
Yup
Newsmax is another batshit crazy network
People are expecting trump to either start his own broadcast network or buy newsmax from the owner and rebrand it.
near glen
Trump doesn't have enough money to just go out and buy a network
cosmic badge
Fake billionaire 🤣
near glen
I bet he was a proper billionaire at some point, but clearly he has seen better times financially ^^
main moss
There were like 100 articles that the results of the first days could change because how counting went.
Trump who is winning at the first hours: stop the election. I won
weary obsidian
https://twitter.com/LibertyHangout/status/1333181708913569796 oh just your average Trumper tweet
fast flame
seems like a logical conclusion
"Liberty Hangout" hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
tough cedar
could be one of those chinese or russian accounts
weary obsidian
Yay ass holes leaving sooner https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/30/fcc-chairman-ajit-pai-will-step-down-on-january-20.html
near glen
Oh that dude, he was still in that position? Lmao
About chairmans stepping down cause admin change, I am actually really sad to see the NASA chairman go
He's such a nice guy and I hope you guys find a good replacement
cosmic badge
Net neutrality needs to be federal law so the next Ajit Pai can't just roll it back.
near glen
We don't even get that done properly in the EU so don't get your hopes up
cosmic badge
lol
The whole controversy has led to some states passing their own variations of Net Neutrality laws, but yeah federal legislation is probably hopeless
foggy fern
Isn't the FCC still suing those states to block that?
dusky raft
yeah, not a big fan of the government able to sue itself, federal government
state to federal i understand
and state to state
but federal to state doesnt make sense
inner halo
Cats and dogs make the world go uwu, change my mind.
near glen
I mean, holding them accountable is also important
brisk cradle
Anti-gay politican busted for being at an gay orgy and violating lockdown rules. Amazing.
this recalls Sharpiegate
fast flame
A week or so ago they were saying there were severe inconsistencies in Michigan counties that ended up actually being in Minnesota
The main issue here is that they’re bad at being criminals
Besides the fact that they are trying to obstruct democracy but we all expected that
foggy fern
sigh some people in my family are pointing at Iowa only having 1425 new cases today as a sign things are getting way better
But we're only doing like 1/4 the tests we were 2 weeks ago, our positivity rate is still above 40%
A positivity rate that high means we should be doing more testing but instead we're doing way less and using the lower numbers to show Iowa isn't the worst state in the US
shy gulch
Would it be safe to both reasonably and logical to assume that there are way more than 63.8m cases world wide. I see that it’s 63.8m tested but I personally believe it’s a ton more
Not as in; more than 63.8m tested, rather more than 63.8m cases period.
foggy fern
Estimates are between 2x and 10x more
shy gulch
Got it.
weary obsidian
ah yes as one would expect what parler is, free rampant racism: https://www.reddit.com/gallery/k4jhgq
I support you republicans in your boycott!
and looks like Barr is next up to be fired now lol
fast flame
#boycotttherunoff #stopthesteal
elder portal
ah yes as one would expect what parler is, free rampant racism: https://www.redd...
Free speech and all, but goddamn. That last one was.. almost? Nice
brisk cradle
Even if that story broke out before the election I do not think it would've changed a lot of votes.
Mind you, Trump has had a bevy of investigations and lawsuits filed against him and he barely lost to Joe Biden at the polls.
brisk cradle
But they won't.
weary obsidian
just trade 1 enemy for another enemy woo
weary obsidian
well liberal alone isnt a bad thing lol, he is a 'neoliberal'
brisk cradle
Yeah, I forgot to say, he is neoliberal.
Though Democrats did flip Arizona and Georgia which triggers him to no end. Come to think of it, at least we can take solace in the nice little things, as limited as they are.
weary obsidian
touchy uncle joe just creeps me out, specially his behavior around children. "I love kids bouncing in my lap, rubbing my hairy legs"
brisk cradle
Though losing Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin probably hurts him more.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ParlerWatch/ for more Parler shenagnians, it's creepy and scary shit right there. Makes me want to go into antifa.
weary obsidian
arent you already antifa? I def have been 😛
anyone who doesnt support facism is antifa
brisk cradle
I've been antifa, just not taking direct action like I should.
Problem is that I rarely have the time to do that/
Good to know we ran out of countries to invade so now we just war with our selves between government agencies
What, y'all didn't invade Venezeula? /s
weary obsidian
fuck that place. pineapple pizza was great
shut vine
Ever since Cambridge Analytica, I have avoided social media. Considering Parler asks for social security info allegedly I'd be avoiding that one like the plague too. Also think they equally need their powers to censor regulated as does Twitter, Facebook, and Google.
weary obsidian
LOL What, it wants your SSN?!
shut vine
Yes lmfao
weary obsidian
RIP non americans
drifting arch
This is a potentially politically incorrect question, but I'm not sure where else to post it. Seeing as this is the politics channel, I figure it is hopefully okay.
I am asking this question purely to benefit my own awareness, and not to classify any individual or harm anybody whatsoever. I just want to know more about it and I really don't know where else to ask. Maybe there's a subreddit for this?
This is about a potential slur, and I just want to know what its target is because I see it all over the place and I've used it before. If you are uncomfortable with seeing a potential slur, please do not click the spoiler tag below.
||I just saw on Reddit that based is a slur, and the user was asked to stop using it. I've used this before, and after seeing this I'm surprised...Having now seen it, I'm going to stop using it absolutely and I regret having used it. But I still see it a lot in the gaming community mainly.||
Can anyone provide some info? DM is fine, too. If this message needs to be deleted then do so please.
mystic ermine
plush crypt
"Distance-education" is now being reintroduced in Swedish high schools
read: schools are closing, MS Teams time
shy gulch
plush crypt
i dont get how people can believe that bs
it [biden bias in mail-in votes] was foreseen, predicted, and warned for weeks before the election and now people appear surprised he had a jump?
weary obsidian
@shy gulch cool story
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas_emissions_by_China#Greenhouse_gas_sources
also your trump image is wrong, missing the big fall flat on face to the ground missing the goal, and bone spurs prob prevent him from vaulting anyways
shy gulch
which one
tawny edge
^
shy gulch
near glen
What's with these dum memes?
If you want to have an argument about something, can you use words like normal people?
shy gulch
Memes are more effective at injecting information quickly into your brain before you're aware
near glen
We have really good discussions in here often
broken raven
Just asking, which country politics does this channel argue on discuss?
near glen
Everything that works
broken raven
no country "works" 😂
near glen
If you are the only one being able to discuss one country, that obviously doesn't work
broken raven
I see
near glen
Most of the time it's usa, eu, uk, germany
broken raven
time to add india bois
near glen
Or, just topics that are applicable everywhere
If you want we can discuss the Indian caste system :P
broken raven
If you want we can discuss the Indian caste system :P
sure man
near glen
Systemic discrimination is a good topic
broken raven
It is definitely a very... intense topic of debate
shy gulch
My favorite things to debate on are isolationism and the importance of the nuclear family
near glen
What would be an argument for it?
broken raven
What would be an argument for it?
who me?
shy gulch
people actually support that?
broken raven
What would be a pro caste system argument?
well, its the foundation of indian civilization
near glen
Those all don't look like compelling arguments ^^
broken raven
very weak arguement ik
but when you think that india is 3000 years old
you begin to realize that its been there
all this while
so... I dunno... preserve it maybe?
near glen
If you put in effort to preserve something, it better has some actual use
broken raven
but personally I feel its a system that has run out of capacity to serve the modern society and should be done away with
on the other hand, its found its roots into the deepest of indian history
near glen
Just because we always did it that way doesn't mean it is still good
Nor that it ever was good in the first place
shy gulch
Social Mobility sounds better than a fixed status system
broken raven
True
But you have to understand, religion is big in india
VERY big
VERY VERY VERY big in india
broken raven
So its not as simple as to just "do away" with it
near glen
So that's the root cause of the issue
If you can get rid of religion, you can improve the life of everyone then
shy gulch
Very one-dimensional thinking
broken raven
It is
broken raven
nah man
shy gulch
I hate that concept. You can't just solve all of the worlds problems by making everyone secular.
near glen
A ton of problems would be solved if ppl would listen to scientists more than to religious leaders
I don't care what you personally believe in, as long as that doesn't influence your actions I guess
shy gulch
That makes no sense. How can you believe something and it not affect your actions
broken raven
A ton of problems would be solved if ppl would listen to scientists more than to...
India is not just its people bro
India is its culture
its religion
near glen
If you believe into old fairytales instead of listening to the science, you don't act accordingly to the science
shy gulch
Theres a word for people who say they believe something and do something opposite. A hypocrite.
broken raven
what we do
near glen
Culture and relation are seperate, no?
broken raven
literally everything has been taught to us by our ancestors
the gita has answers to every question of mankind they say
you cant just take away our religion
shy gulch
Just to clarify in case I'm wrong, isn't india one of the leaders in scientific advancement?
broken raven
its what sets us apart
near glen
That's the kind of bullshit am talking about
broken raven
Just to clarify in case I'm wrong, isn't india one of the leaders in scientific ...
it is
near glen
Idk what the gita is, but it sure doesn't got an answer for modern problems
broken raven
No, its got answers to problems that are deeper than "modern problems"
.g Bhagvad Gita
re
shy gulch
Science does not and cannot answer all of lifes questions
near glen
What problems are deeper than the climate crysis or systemic racism or discrimination?
shy gulch
The decline of the family
broken raven
Inner Peace
near glen
What's the decline of family?
broken raven
Only when you help yourself, you can help other causes
if you're lost yourself, then I don't see how you can help others find their way
near glen
if you're lost yourself, then I don't see how you can help others find their way
Many ppl find sense in their life solely by helping others
broken raven
because thats what they found
they found their way
in helping others
this is deep 
shy gulch
More and more people are born into this world without parents who are happily and stably married. It is without a doubt one of the biggest factors in our crime, poverty and depression rates in the west.
Regardless of race
broken raven
namaste to you as well :3
weary obsidian
religion doesnt solve a problem on keeping people from getting a divorce, it just brainwashes them into fearing retribution from a fairy tale if they got one so they suck it up and hate each other but stay together, often causing probably more emotional harm to the child than them separating and having happy parents
shy gulch
I'm not claiming that religion solves the family problem. All I'm saying is that people need to focus on the importance of the nuclear family
fast flame
I'm not claiming that religion solves the family problem. All I'm saying is that...
how can people like you claim that we need to focus on the nuclear family but then support serial adulterer Donald Trump? talk about hypocrisy...
dusky raft
@fast flame And biden likes touching kids, your point?
weary obsidian
well asm uch as i dont like biden, commenting on a fact about trump doesnt really warrant a "but biden" response
dusky raft
Hes a neoliberal who used some socialist positions to get elected
weary obsidian
eh, i wouldnt say he used socialist positions. most of us voted biden only to be not trump, nothing to do with his positions
dusky raft
that also
weary obsidian
the closest to socialist friendly ideas hes had is choosing harris
and shes meh compared to real progressives
dusky raft
I still dont even consider harris to be good considering her track record
weary obsidian
yeah im not enthused by her
mystic ermine
Kamala pulled out of her own bid before she bombed in her own district or something iirc
fast flame
i wont lie and say that biden doesnt have a somewhat problematic history, i dont think any of us had him as our first choice. but you dont want to get into an argument about the inappropriate conduct of your candidate. 27 rape allegations, pictures of trump with epstein and ghislaine maxwell, "grab em by the pussy" and i can go on.
near glen
It's so fun hearing americans talk about socialsm, as a german
dusky raft
but yeah, to the point of family, I think family is important, as it provides a small reinforced structure for upbringing. I dont think the government should be involved in upbringing or try to endorse bad habits.
near glen
Since you know, we have actual experience with socialism
My grandpa lived in a socialist regime
Hint: public universial healthcare is not socialism, lmao
mystic ermine
People don't want government taking care of everything
I love having the NHS, but, it's great system until you hear of people dying in waiting lists or suffering for months to get approval for a drug, etc
dusky raft
This is what I think europeans look at us differently. The average rural american wants nothing to do with government
near glen
Better dying on wait lists than dying without a chance cause they poor, no?
mystic ermine
government is in control of wages, etc, so staffing is generally trash, etc
dusky raft
we dont want to be told what to do
mystic ermine
meanwhile, MPs are discussing about raising their own wages a few grand or something a year
mystic ermine
No, but many of the public health systems generally have the same type of issues
Yes, there defo needs to be a better safety net for people, but, government control doesn't solve the current issues
dusky raft
I think there should be a public health system that assists in the core essentials and life saving procedures to those who cant afford it
mystic ermine
At least, not direct controls, private companies will just see the tax funded piggy bank
dusky raft
but we should focus on the health industry as a whole to not just rip americans off more
mystic ermine
hospitals already grossly overcharge in the US
mystic ermine
Primarily because they get to offer magical discounts to the insurance company which you as a payee don't see
dusky raft
which I think should be illegal
mystic ermine
100%
The biggest issue, imho, is the fact that it's a single person paying, essentially
dusky raft
in/out network should be illegal
weary obsidian
@mystic ermine every time i hear about yalls wait lists and approval requirements, it doesnt seem any diff than the shit we have with private
mystic ermine
Like, there's no real strife to bring the cost of care down for hospitals because the companies will pay it
weary obsidian
I use to take a medication for sinus problems that helped, when OTC didnt, my insurance denied coverage of it when I got a new insurance from work
mystic ermine
depends on the area over here, having free care defo helps with some aspects, but our GPs are understaffed, etc, because of the staff shortage and budget cuts all across the board
weary obsidian
"we prefer you take OTC"
mystic ermine
Well, over here you generally don't have much of a choice over medication, unless you got a good doctor
dusky raft
Yeah, the US doesnt have a lot of restrictions on medication, and hell, some OTC here is Rx elsewhere
mystic ermine
The list of drugs available on the NHS are generally limited, outside of that list you're generally SOL
My mate was on a waiting list for like 6 months for an immunosupressent, and most of that was waiting on budget approval
The USes existing system is fucked, and defo needs a overhaul, but, so's our system, so I can't really vouch for it
dusky raft
yeah, you can bypass waiting for meds in the US if you opt to pay directly
mystic ermine
I mean, our government spend a ton of cash on a pissing app
dusky raft
BUT, you bear the brunt of the cost
mystic ermine
For covid, from one of borris's cabinets buds or something, app was a massive flopped that they literally just dropped it
weary obsidian
the fuck is a pissing app, trump fetish app?
mystic ermine
Am british, replace pissing with fucking
mystic ermine
No, coz pissing starts with a P, and you can throw raw power into a P
(especially when you really gotta go)
cosmic badge
Sounds like the NHS is just deliberately being sabotaged 😛
weary obsidian
um, i think you can put more raw power into fucking than pissing 😛
cosmic badge
UK seems to want to follow in America's tracks.
mystic ermine
Yea, it pretty much is
Only issue is that the control of it is in one persons hands, pretty much
and I don't think that that is even an elected position, iirc, so tossing that crockpot out is, yea...
Governments gotta flip over to labour to get that moron out, as well as the other people in ploy with budgeting etc, and, just, labour... lol
weary obsidian
yeah, you can bypass waiting for meds in the US if you opt to pay directly
the med I wanted, no way in hell i was paying over 100/mo for out of pocket.
QNasl is expensive
dusky raft
its an option if its an utter emergency, but thats not bad compared to the one I take every day
weary obsidian
they give youADDITIONAL coupons on top of insurance to bring it down to 15/mo
dusky raft
yeah
cosmic badge
Also wasn't the math already done? Medicare for All in the US would actually be cheaper than paying insurance premiums.
weary obsidian
but price w/o insurance was too insane
atm im paying a lot for sudafed, ireally gotta get doc to write me a prescription, then use FSA on it
mystic ermine
thing is that people hear stuff like peddling of getting rid of private insurance and stuff
weary obsidian
ditching pets off bed + sudafeds got me in a much better place now
(the real sudafed :P)
dusky raft
We need to open up the market more and promote more competition in the healthcare industry, along with banning insurance practices like in/out networking.
cosmic badge
Nah, I'd prefer that the government be responsible for the risk management. Not insurance providers.
weary obsidian
well that would be a decent help to current system to make all insurance accepted by all healthcare....
and not have to fear calling an ambulance knowing my ambulance crew doesnt take my insurance yet hospital does
dusky raft
hospitals should also offer a bill up front
should be up to the patient to confirm and file
weary obsidian
fuck that
mystic ermine
easier said than done when you're blacked out
dusky raft
I mean when you get discharged...
cosmic badge
If we can't put an end to health insurance/pharmaceutical lobbying, then we need to do the next best thing: let the government manage the risk pool.
mystic ermine
The thing is that all you're doing is changing where hospitals get their money pool from
weary obsidian
theres no excuse for the "doesnt take insurance". standardize price, provider simply sends bill to whoeever your insurance provider is
mystic ermine
insurance companies or the tax pot
weary obsidian
dont fucking worry about the who
dusky raft
I meant offer as an optional thing, that way they cant hide or add more stuff in
you get to see the actual price there and then, no trickery on the hospital side
mystic ermine
by nature assuming nothing changes, yea, it's pretty easier for the gov to manage that as they're not supposed to be making a profit, so you're not covering some CEOs new jet plane, etc; Biggest thing is making sure that people can still see their same doctors, that care providers won't close, medication ain't gonna be impacted, etc
Think that one of the biggest things which people should be tryna push for is getting rid of the huge inflation of care costs
dusky raft
The problem with government is corruption, embezzling money away from a service
sure, its hard to do so, but considering how large federal is
im pretty sure someone is taking money from tax payers without raising the alarm
cosmic badge
Not wrong, the defense budget is ridiculous.
dusky raft
Yeah, we have an exploded budget for projects going nowhere
while russia/china have a much smaller budget
though yet again, europe piggybacks on our advances
I would love to see that money be pushed towards space development though
cosmic badge
Seems neither side cares about addressing the defense budget.
dusky raft
no
cosmic badge
Every year, more and more is allocated.
"Let's spend less money on defense" is synonymous to "Wow, you hate our troops" 😛
cosmic badge
Of course not. It's in contracts
cosmic badge
We'd probably be colonizing Mars by now if we spent 1/3 of that budget on space development.
In the last 10 years
dusky raft
just put a new paintjob and computer system into existing planes, like what we do with some of our cargo planes that have been refitted so many times
shy gulch
Imagine thinking more people voted for Biden than Obama
dusky raft
We still have B52s in service
a 50's era plane
those have been refitted so many times
mystic ermine
holy fuck
Under the Air Force's current bomber plans, the B-52 will fly until 2050 — just shy of its 100th birthday
that's, scary
I guess they don't get cylcled anywhere near what a commercial jet deals with, but, damn
weary obsidian
Imagine thinking more people voted for Biden than Obama
spewing bullshit like this will get you removed from here.
mystic ermine
dusky raft
the newest is someodd 60-70 years
fucking money spent well
too well
when the military actually built things meant to last
mystic ermine
these days it's just cheapest bidder, was watching a video which was somewhat "righty", so, not gonna link it here, on stuff like spacex
shy gulch
spewing bullshit like this will get you removed from here.
This breaks a rule?
Which one
mystic ermine
SpaceX brung the concept of flying boosters back to the ground to life, pretty much
weary obsidian
false statements / conspiracy